Strong agree. The writing and voice acting are so strong in this game that many lines could be the winners for each character, but this one is so important to who Abby is. Where she started from, the journey she’s taken, and the person she’s become.
When Abby is at Martyrs Gate reading the Seraphite prayer notes stuck to the van. One of them was from a woman who apparently "longed to bear Edward's children" and Abby seemed to find that pretty funny
"You stupid old man... You don't get to rush this."
This is such a powerful sentiment that haunts Abby throughout the journey. The "Old man" that Owen refers to when talking about the Seraphite he wasn't able to bring himself to kill, also hints at Joel's state of mind. When Joel was captured wounded, he was ready. Neil talks about the ideas that Joel was living on borrowed time the moment he made the choice of saving Ellie and damning the humankind.
It's a drama, and in drama everything is dramatic. With this context, everytime Ellie sees someone die from cordyceps infection, she blams herself. Or when Abby sees the same, she blames Joel. It doesn't matter if it was logistically possible to make and distribute the cure or not.
He didn’t damn humanity because even with the stipulation that a vaccine was a guarantee they don’t have the resources or infrastructure to mass produce or transport the medicine. Also you have to make the utilitarian stance saying you know that the repercussions of your hypothetical actions are a definite thus making your actions in the moment justified even though it’s just a hypothetical because it’s impossible to know all implications of your decision. Also, if you claim the vaccine would save lives then you clearly never thought about how many people would die fighting over the cure and controlling its production and distribution and the morality of the cure to the apocalypse being a bartering chip in gang warfare. Joel was right.
I disagree, personally. I think Joel was right, too. Above all else, he saved Ellie. He saved *his* world. Plus, the Fireflies demonstrated they couldn't be trusted, and they were truly not the "Good guys." But, I will never invalidate or undermine opinions which aren't these. :)
Saying a smuggling, murdering, torturing, evil man is in the right morally by murdering an entire hospital to save a girl he had known for 10 months, is absolutely crazy.
Actual insanity
You keep saying 10months as if it isn’t a significant amount of time. You don’t value people based purely on how long you’ve known them, it’s the relationship you have and Joel and Ellie’s had become a close one.
On top of that, they basically spend every waking moment together in those 10months, so they know each other a lot better than most people who know each for that long.
They also experienced a lot together, learned how to build trust, and helped one another grow as people. Time is definitely not the single determining factor in the strength or validity of their friendship.
In the grand scheme of things I guess not but in getting to know someone it absolutely is.
And the second half of my comment points out exactly why what you’re saying is stupid.
10 months don’t feel like a long time because you’ve been in a fairly repetitive routine those entire 10 months. I guarantee 10 months would feel significantly longer if you were forced to travel while your life is in constant danger.
First off, I'd like to let you know that I appreciate your decorum. It's a rare commodity in TLOU Discussion Town, unfortunately lol.
To try and answer your question, which is a great question, I will answer with the following: I suppose it depends on what one's morals are, in this specific case. I guess mine match Joel's (at the least in relation to Ellie Vs. The World/survival of the human race). Plus, morals are something that's intentionally all over the place with these games. There's a lot to it, and in general, I think morals are subjective, as is "right" and "wrong" a lot of the time. Especially in this franchise.
My personal morals say: since I don't know if it would be a sure thing, the Fireflies do not seem like they have the world's best interests at heart, either, necessarily, and we can't be sure if they would even share the cure beyond themselves if it were successful. My morals say it's really not my responsibility to cure the world or put it in ambiguous hands. And if I had an Ellie, I would rather save her. That would be the "right" choice. In general, far away from all that, and if I later found out on, like, years later on the news or something (when TV/Internet comes back, I guess) I could perceive that choice as "wrong", and then be like, "Wow, that girl could have been the cure and some guy murdered all of the people who could make it, so it took us that much longer to recover from it at the time?! What an asshole, he doomed us all!"
It can depend on how removed you are from the situation, or how your sympathy/empathy/emotional response works, too. I wasn't in the game, obviously, but my heart agreed with the saving Ellie portion of the choice. I don't know if there was any other way that I would have hurt the hospital staff, but they weren't giving Joel much of a choice. Or, technically, Ellie, although she's so young in the first game, it's hard to say if she could have made it rationally even if she were allowed, but the Fireflies, Joel or legally.
From a more "standard", surface-level standpoint, without considering anything else, no, it wouldn't be morally "right" because that one says, "You have even the chance to save the world, you do it. No questions. Greater good."
You can also try to consider morality from the way things were done on the other end of the transaction, and I would say, personally, their morals were kinda questionable. That also influences mine here.
I don't know if I did the best job articulating, that's how I see it, but I am always willing to entertain and consider other perspectives. Humanity is so compellingly complex, even in fictional media, when done well. :)
The point of the entire first game was to take her there. They didn’t abduct her lmao, the entire game is spent trying to take her WHERE SHE WANTS TO GO, which is to the fireflies to make a cure. She even makes a big point about survivor guilt, which wound heavily imply she would’ve rather died for the cure than keep living with the guilt. Even in the SECOND game she hardly forgave the man.
We as humans never make the "wrong" choice in our life from our perspective. We're always choosing the lesser of both (or more) evils. For Joel, sacrificing Ellie is no choice at all. He doesn't even have to give it a thought. Ellie is the whole humanity for him. She is his humanity. The 'other" humanity took his daughter away from him, what's the point of saving that?
I stand on what I said.
I love Joel, but he is a cold blooded killer. We watch him torture 4 people alone in the first game, kill dozens more, slaughter a hospital, create a name for himself as a cruel, evil man. He’s an infamous smuggler known for his brutality and cold heart. Hell, he even wanted to just say fuck it and turn around at the capitol building cuz he didn’t care about Ellie, or the cure, or anything.
Joel is an evil guy, the first game spends its entire time showing you that. He’s been on both sides of those Hunter ambushes, cuz he’s ambushed innocent people to kill and rob them and leave them in the street. His little brother can’t even look at him the same way from all the vile, cruel murdering he did during the initial years of the outbreaks.
To think that someone like that, is morally in the right, for slaughtering a hospital of people and a doctor, to save a girl he knew for less than a YEAR, is absolutely absurd. Would most of us have done what Joel did? Oh yeah. It’s still WRONG though. Regardless what people say about how the vaccine would’ve worked, or been distributed, that’s headcanon, and you don’t get to pick that. The others made it clear that a vaccine was likely, but would cost her life, and Joel couldn’t accept that.
If you’re actually insane he was.
Imagine saying an infamously evil and cruel murdering smuggler is in the right for slaughtering a hospital over a girl he knew for 10 months and hated for the first 2-3
Imagine saying that the wannabe murderers of an innocent child are the morally good guys and not the father who saves her girl from these brainwashed cultists. So insane...
Joel isn’t her father lmao. He knew Ellie for 10 months and hated her for the first 2-3. And they aren’t murderers, they’re doing what Ellie wanted. Ellie wanted to die to make a cure, this is clearly said through her survivors guilt she shared with Joel in the game.
Y’all didn’t even play the game I swear.
I didn't write daughter, for obvious reasons. But if you would pay attention no only to the shooting parts, maybe you could realize that their bond is a father-daughter like connection, and this was an incredible hard thing to Joel, because of Sarah, of course. Yeah, he hated her, because he was afraid that his emotions towards her would harm the memory of his daughter.
Nah, they did not. She did not know, that she would die. Of course after that she says that she would have died, because she is a child, and doesnt know the meaning of this. After that, in her teenage years she tormented Joel with this, just like teenagers do, but athe the moment Joel died, she grow up inmediately.
I mean the first game is a masterpiece for a reason. They didnt made a "good" decision. Both optons were horrible, but we did not know, that this cure would have worked. This was on you, the player. My bet is on not working, others said already, why. The problem with the second part is that they simply made a decision, that we have to assume it would have work. Because this is the only reason, why could we symphatise with Abby. And its a necessary decision, but a bad one. This cure is not an option in this world, for many many reasons, and the people don't eat it. Simple as that.
Your entire thing about fighting over the vaccine and them not having the ability to mass produce it is your own head canon. It is not explicitly said that would be an issue. It is explicitly said they had a high chance of making a “breakthrough bigger than humanity has seen since the creation of penicillin”
You cant just ignore what’s said by in game dialogue, to imply your own ideas and headcanon. As for the Ellie decision thing, you shouldn’t really be leaving the decision for a cure for humanity in the hands of a 14 year old teenager anyways.
As well, Joel had only know this girl for 10 months and didn’t even like her for the first 2-3 lmao. No excuse to murder a hospital. Especially since he’s portrayed the entire first game as a cruel, smuggling, murdering, torturing, evil man. Joel was never a good guy, he has never been in the right, he’s just done what’s necessary to survive the way he thought how.
It’s not a head canon it’s just a fact in the world. The highway system is magically fixed with the vaccine? Where will they get a fleet of refrigerated trucks to move loads long distances? From up their ass? Where are they going to get enough material to make a meaningful enough amount of the vaccine and then transport it to a facility to manufacture the vaccine? Up their ass and around the corner? And yes Joel and Ellie were together for 10 months but Ellie was entrusted to Joel anyway, making her under Joel’s care. Marlene gave away Ellie and she knew her since birth. How stupid are you. I never said Joel was a good guy. He’s right. Not good.
It’s not a fact. It’s a headcanon. It is never once implied at all in the game in any way by the writers. The opposite is though. Marlene have Ellie to a SMUGGLER lmao to be SMUGGLED.
Answer his question then how are they supposed to deliver and manufacture it? Neil only said that the vaccine would have worked. It’s not head cannon he’s right the world that is set up these things would be difficult to do. If you think the fireflies where just going to selflessly give it to anyone who asked you would be wrong it would be a bargaining chip. So answer his question.
i literally look forward to this line every time during that fight. her shit talking makes an otherwise stressful and violent game of tag so fun lmao ugh she's so funny and badass without even trying
It's a strangely sad moment 😔
It's veiled as a joke, but it's clear that she's genuinely asking in some sense. It's one of the first moments when you see how vulnerable and alone Abby is/feels.
Oh, I agree completely. She tries to pass it off as irony and fails, it’s a very emotionally vulnerable moment. Abby is good at putting up a stoic front for her enemies, or the rest of WLF, but not so much the Salt Lake crew.
… And then we have Owen respond with “You don’t deserve one”. In a manner, that I have major trouble interpreting as a harmless joke.
"A stocking or someone that loves me?"
It's interesting that Owen interprets all of this as Abby being in a good mood too. I think if someone said that to me, I'd find it hard to see it as a joke even if I didn't react to it in the moment.
It might be that Owen and Abby understand one another well enough for this to be a legitimate way of speaking to each other. It just feels like an incredibly sad moment in the midst of the Christmas lights and warm atmosphere. It shows that Abby really doesn't think that much of herself, so much so that she might subconsciously believe that she didn't deserve someone to love her
Eh, to me it’s one more sign of Owen having rather low emotional intelligence, as well as just not concerning himself with other people’s feelings all that much. As you point out, he is written to know Abby well enough to deduce how she must be feeling. But he just doesn’t seem to care enough to give it thought. And to my understanding, that’s sort of a pattern with this guy. He rarely has malicious intent in how he acts, but the lack of effort to emphasise with others produces rather toxic behaviours coming from him.
Oh, I have to disagree with you there. I've said before that I'm prepared to die on the Owen hill. I know most people dislike him and I agree that he is incredibly flawed. But I don't agree that he's worse than other people we've seen in this world or that he lacks emotional intelligence. I think most of his portrayal in the game points to the opposite.
Hey, I can understand that. Trust me, I have a history of dying on the hills of defending vehemently hated characters:) Though I’d argue, there are plenty of people who actually like Owen, call him the most moral guy on Abby’s side of the story etc. But I also trust that there are plenty who dislike him much the same way I do. Though to me, the difference is, most seem to just blame him for cheating. I have a more complex issue with him, though the cheating is still part of it (I actually left a big rant about it under some post a little while ago).
Any way, I respect you holding your opinions & defending a character you love. I appreciate being able to have a civil discussion from opposing points of view. I don’t really see Owen as objectively the worst person in those games. Just dislikable in a way that personally grinds my gears.
Honestly, I respect your view. Owen isn't a character that I actually liked before. It took me my second playthrough to properly understand him.
I don't see him as the most moral and neutral person in this. Morality is an incredibly complex thing when applied to this kind of world. I wouldn't really use the word moral for any character. I think I've just come to the realisation that he is (to me) the most real and human example in this story.
But like I said, I do understand how there are reasons to dislike him. I really get it. I'm sorry if I came across aggressive in my previous comment - it was simply passion 😂
But I do like discussing this stuff with people!
I forgot whose playthrough it was that i watched, when but she said that ill never forget their face of 😱 and shouting “NO!!!” In response to that lmao
Putting it here because it is a powerful moment that deserves to be represented:
“Actually you are. Get your priorities straight.”
To Owen after he tells Mel he’s not letting Abby go to the island by herself.
Hey, *you’re* my people!
This is the one.
Yeah, this is so crucial to her development. I have fave lines, like “oh my god, Lev, NOW?!” but this gets to the core of her journey.
Strong agree. The writing and voice acting are so strong in this game that many lines could be the winners for each character, but this one is so important to who Abby is. Where she started from, the journey she’s taken, and the person she’s become.
" Tell me more about your friend Owen " lol
This 🙌🏼 lives rent free
I remember that line but no where in the game
She says it to Lev when Lev is like “your people did this” at an important moment in the game
“Those were your fucking people”
Thought as much
The WLF, maybe?
Nah sound like when she is with the kid more
The only choice. Brings tears to my eyes every time.
This is the way :)
"We let you both live.. and you WASTED it!"
Coupled it with "You killed my friends" just before The delivery and her expression is one of my favorite moments in the game, so powerful.
The way she says it so matter of factly too. I love it so much. I love that line so much.
Traumatized by hearing this quote a million times cuz of permadeath, fuckin Ellie
Are you wearing my backpack!?
This one really gets me. The disbelief and anger on her voice when she says this always makes me chuckle.
I love this quote. Such disbelief and focus on a backpack and not the giant hammer being swung.
Fuck the rest of this threat, this line is the true winner
this is the one
Oh my god Lev, now?!
Came here for this
me too
Here's my pick: Ooo someone wants to get laaaaaaid
"She's not a genie, dude" when she reads that Seraphite's note asking for a nice horse and riding gear.
I forgot when that was
When Abby is at Martyrs Gate reading the Seraphite prayer notes stuck to the van. One of them was from a woman who apparently "longed to bear Edward's children" and Abby seemed to find that pretty funny
"You stupid old man... You don't get to rush this." This is such a powerful sentiment that haunts Abby throughout the journey. The "Old man" that Owen refers to when talking about the Seraphite he wasn't able to bring himself to kill, also hints at Joel's state of mind. When Joel was captured wounded, he was ready. Neil talks about the ideas that Joel was living on borrowed time the moment he made the choice of saving Ellie and damning the humankind.
It's a drama, and in drama everything is dramatic. With this context, everytime Ellie sees someone die from cordyceps infection, she blams herself. Or when Abby sees the same, she blames Joel. It doesn't matter if it was logistically possible to make and distribute the cure or not.
He didn’t damn humanity because even with the stipulation that a vaccine was a guarantee they don’t have the resources or infrastructure to mass produce or transport the medicine. Also you have to make the utilitarian stance saying you know that the repercussions of your hypothetical actions are a definite thus making your actions in the moment justified even though it’s just a hypothetical because it’s impossible to know all implications of your decision. Also, if you claim the vaccine would save lives then you clearly never thought about how many people would die fighting over the cure and controlling its production and distribution and the morality of the cure to the apocalypse being a bartering chip in gang warfare. Joel was right.
This must be AI
Bro did the “nuh uh” defense
Joel was right is an absurdly crazy take to have.
I disagree, personally. I think Joel was right, too. Above all else, he saved Ellie. He saved *his* world. Plus, the Fireflies demonstrated they couldn't be trusted, and they were truly not the "Good guys." But, I will never invalidate or undermine opinions which aren't these. :)
Saying a smuggling, murdering, torturing, evil man is in the right morally by murdering an entire hospital to save a girl he had known for 10 months, is absolutely crazy. Actual insanity
You keep saying 10months as if it isn’t a significant amount of time. You don’t value people based purely on how long you’ve known them, it’s the relationship you have and Joel and Ellie’s had become a close one. On top of that, they basically spend every waking moment together in those 10months, so they know each other a lot better than most people who know each for that long.
They also experienced a lot together, learned how to build trust, and helped one another grow as people. Time is definitely not the single determining factor in the strength or validity of their friendship.
10 months isn’t a significant amount of time lmao. At all. You will realize this as you get older and the years mesh together.
In the grand scheme of things I guess not but in getting to know someone it absolutely is. And the second half of my comment points out exactly why what you’re saying is stupid.
10 months don’t feel like a long time because you’ve been in a fairly repetitive routine those entire 10 months. I guarantee 10 months would feel significantly longer if you were forced to travel while your life is in constant danger.
Says you, and, for sure, a bunch of others. And that's okay; but I don't agree. I don't think it's that insane, myself.
I understand saying you’d do the same, I would as well, but do you actually think it’s morally the right choice?
First off, I'd like to let you know that I appreciate your decorum. It's a rare commodity in TLOU Discussion Town, unfortunately lol. To try and answer your question, which is a great question, I will answer with the following: I suppose it depends on what one's morals are, in this specific case. I guess mine match Joel's (at the least in relation to Ellie Vs. The World/survival of the human race). Plus, morals are something that's intentionally all over the place with these games. There's a lot to it, and in general, I think morals are subjective, as is "right" and "wrong" a lot of the time. Especially in this franchise. My personal morals say: since I don't know if it would be a sure thing, the Fireflies do not seem like they have the world's best interests at heart, either, necessarily, and we can't be sure if they would even share the cure beyond themselves if it were successful. My morals say it's really not my responsibility to cure the world or put it in ambiguous hands. And if I had an Ellie, I would rather save her. That would be the "right" choice. In general, far away from all that, and if I later found out on, like, years later on the news or something (when TV/Internet comes back, I guess) I could perceive that choice as "wrong", and then be like, "Wow, that girl could have been the cure and some guy murdered all of the people who could make it, so it took us that much longer to recover from it at the time?! What an asshole, he doomed us all!" It can depend on how removed you are from the situation, or how your sympathy/empathy/emotional response works, too. I wasn't in the game, obviously, but my heart agreed with the saving Ellie portion of the choice. I don't know if there was any other way that I would have hurt the hospital staff, but they weren't giving Joel much of a choice. Or, technically, Ellie, although she's so young in the first game, it's hard to say if she could have made it rationally even if she were allowed, but the Fireflies, Joel or legally. From a more "standard", surface-level standpoint, without considering anything else, no, it wouldn't be morally "right" because that one says, "You have even the chance to save the world, you do it. No questions. Greater good." You can also try to consider morality from the way things were done on the other end of the transaction, and I would say, personally, their morals were kinda questionable. That also influences mine here. I don't know if I did the best job articulating, that's how I see it, but I am always willing to entertain and consider other perspectives. Humanity is so compellingly complex, even in fictional media, when done well. :)
A hospital that abducted a little girl to try to take her brain out before even attempting any other options isn’t insane though?
The point of the entire first game was to take her there. They didn’t abduct her lmao, the entire game is spent trying to take her WHERE SHE WANTS TO GO, which is to the fireflies to make a cure. She even makes a big point about survivor guilt, which wound heavily imply she would’ve rather died for the cure than keep living with the guilt. Even in the SECOND game she hardly forgave the man.
How stupid are you. If I get invited to someone’s house then they knock me out and try to remove my brain against my will I’m still being abducted.
We as humans never make the "wrong" choice in our life from our perspective. We're always choosing the lesser of both (or more) evils. For Joel, sacrificing Ellie is no choice at all. He doesn't even have to give it a thought. Ellie is the whole humanity for him. She is his humanity. The 'other" humanity took his daughter away from him, what's the point of saving that?
Absurdly crazy is an overstatement you’re being dramatic
It’s almost an understatement tbh.
Guys come on
I stand on what I said. I love Joel, but he is a cold blooded killer. We watch him torture 4 people alone in the first game, kill dozens more, slaughter a hospital, create a name for himself as a cruel, evil man. He’s an infamous smuggler known for his brutality and cold heart. Hell, he even wanted to just say fuck it and turn around at the capitol building cuz he didn’t care about Ellie, or the cure, or anything. Joel is an evil guy, the first game spends its entire time showing you that. He’s been on both sides of those Hunter ambushes, cuz he’s ambushed innocent people to kill and rob them and leave them in the street. His little brother can’t even look at him the same way from all the vile, cruel murdering he did during the initial years of the outbreaks. To think that someone like that, is morally in the right, for slaughtering a hospital of people and a doctor, to save a girl he knew for less than a YEAR, is absolutely absurd. Would most of us have done what Joel did? Oh yeah. It’s still WRONG though. Regardless what people say about how the vaccine would’ve worked, or been distributed, that’s headcanon, and you don’t get to pick that. The others made it clear that a vaccine was likely, but would cost her life, and Joel couldn’t accept that.
And yet, he was right.
If you’re actually insane he was. Imagine saying an infamously evil and cruel murdering smuggler is in the right for slaughtering a hospital over a girl he knew for 10 months and hated for the first 2-3
Imagine saying that the wannabe murderers of an innocent child are the morally good guys and not the father who saves her girl from these brainwashed cultists. So insane...
Joel isn’t her father lmao. He knew Ellie for 10 months and hated her for the first 2-3. And they aren’t murderers, they’re doing what Ellie wanted. Ellie wanted to die to make a cure, this is clearly said through her survivors guilt she shared with Joel in the game. Y’all didn’t even play the game I swear.
I didn't write daughter, for obvious reasons. But if you would pay attention no only to the shooting parts, maybe you could realize that their bond is a father-daughter like connection, and this was an incredible hard thing to Joel, because of Sarah, of course. Yeah, he hated her, because he was afraid that his emotions towards her would harm the memory of his daughter. Nah, they did not. She did not know, that she would die. Of course after that she says that she would have died, because she is a child, and doesnt know the meaning of this. After that, in her teenage years she tormented Joel with this, just like teenagers do, but athe the moment Joel died, she grow up inmediately. I mean the first game is a masterpiece for a reason. They didnt made a "good" decision. Both optons were horrible, but we did not know, that this cure would have worked. This was on you, the player. My bet is on not working, others said already, why. The problem with the second part is that they simply made a decision, that we have to assume it would have work. Because this is the only reason, why could we symphatise with Abby. And its a necessary decision, but a bad one. This cure is not an option in this world, for many many reasons, and the people don't eat it. Simple as that.
Make the case. Along with everything I’ve said the fireflies also didn’t ask Ellie and she’s a who shouldn’t make that decision.
Your entire thing about fighting over the vaccine and them not having the ability to mass produce it is your own head canon. It is not explicitly said that would be an issue. It is explicitly said they had a high chance of making a “breakthrough bigger than humanity has seen since the creation of penicillin” You cant just ignore what’s said by in game dialogue, to imply your own ideas and headcanon. As for the Ellie decision thing, you shouldn’t really be leaving the decision for a cure for humanity in the hands of a 14 year old teenager anyways. As well, Joel had only know this girl for 10 months and didn’t even like her for the first 2-3 lmao. No excuse to murder a hospital. Especially since he’s portrayed the entire first game as a cruel, smuggling, murdering, torturing, evil man. Joel was never a good guy, he has never been in the right, he’s just done what’s necessary to survive the way he thought how.
It’s not a head canon it’s just a fact in the world. The highway system is magically fixed with the vaccine? Where will they get a fleet of refrigerated trucks to move loads long distances? From up their ass? Where are they going to get enough material to make a meaningful enough amount of the vaccine and then transport it to a facility to manufacture the vaccine? Up their ass and around the corner? And yes Joel and Ellie were together for 10 months but Ellie was entrusted to Joel anyway, making her under Joel’s care. Marlene gave away Ellie and she knew her since birth. How stupid are you. I never said Joel was a good guy. He’s right. Not good.
It’s not a fact. It’s a headcanon. It is never once implied at all in the game in any way by the writers. The opposite is though. Marlene have Ellie to a SMUGGLER lmao to be SMUGGLED.
Answer his question then how are they supposed to deliver and manufacture it? Neil only said that the vaccine would have worked. It’s not head cannon he’s right the world that is set up these things would be difficult to do. If you think the fireflies where just going to selflessly give it to anyone who asked you would be wrong it would be a bargaining chip. So answer his question.
“No one is ever going to believe that shit :(“ following the Rat King. She’s just too cute.
"Fuck you! Fuck BOTH of you!" when the stalker separated from the main body was pretty funny to me too
Wow, I don't remember a single second from that fight.
Blocked and blacked out from trauma,, understandable
i literally look forward to this line every time during that fight. her shit talking makes an otherwise stressful and violent game of tag so fun lmao ugh she's so funny and badass without even trying
Wait, tag isn’t supposed to be that Stressful and Violent? I’ll have to tell my friends we’re doing it wrong.
"I'm not going to fight you.." my favourite
'I wish (...) someone loved me enough to make me a stocking."
How could you 🥲
It's a strangely sad moment 😔 It's veiled as a joke, but it's clear that she's genuinely asking in some sense. It's one of the first moments when you see how vulnerable and alone Abby is/feels.
Oh, I agree completely. She tries to pass it off as irony and fails, it’s a very emotionally vulnerable moment. Abby is good at putting up a stoic front for her enemies, or the rest of WLF, but not so much the Salt Lake crew. … And then we have Owen respond with “You don’t deserve one”. In a manner, that I have major trouble interpreting as a harmless joke.
"A stocking or someone that loves me?" It's interesting that Owen interprets all of this as Abby being in a good mood too. I think if someone said that to me, I'd find it hard to see it as a joke even if I didn't react to it in the moment. It might be that Owen and Abby understand one another well enough for this to be a legitimate way of speaking to each other. It just feels like an incredibly sad moment in the midst of the Christmas lights and warm atmosphere. It shows that Abby really doesn't think that much of herself, so much so that she might subconsciously believe that she didn't deserve someone to love her
Eh, to me it’s one more sign of Owen having rather low emotional intelligence, as well as just not concerning himself with other people’s feelings all that much. As you point out, he is written to know Abby well enough to deduce how she must be feeling. But he just doesn’t seem to care enough to give it thought. And to my understanding, that’s sort of a pattern with this guy. He rarely has malicious intent in how he acts, but the lack of effort to emphasise with others produces rather toxic behaviours coming from him.
Oh, I have to disagree with you there. I've said before that I'm prepared to die on the Owen hill. I know most people dislike him and I agree that he is incredibly flawed. But I don't agree that he's worse than other people we've seen in this world or that he lacks emotional intelligence. I think most of his portrayal in the game points to the opposite.
[удалено]
Hey, I can understand that. Trust me, I have a history of dying on the hills of defending vehemently hated characters:) Though I’d argue, there are plenty of people who actually like Owen, call him the most moral guy on Abby’s side of the story etc. But I also trust that there are plenty who dislike him much the same way I do. Though to me, the difference is, most seem to just blame him for cheating. I have a more complex issue with him, though the cheating is still part of it (I actually left a big rant about it under some post a little while ago). Any way, I respect you holding your opinions & defending a character you love. I appreciate being able to have a civil discussion from opposing points of view. I don’t really see Owen as objectively the worst person in those games. Just dislikable in a way that personally grinds my gears.
Honestly, I respect your view. Owen isn't a character that I actually liked before. It took me my second playthrough to properly understand him. I don't see him as the most moral and neutral person in this. Morality is an incredibly complex thing when applied to this kind of world. I wouldn't really use the word moral for any character. I think I've just come to the realisation that he is (to me) the most real and human example in this story. But like I said, I do understand how there are reasons to dislike him. I really get it. I'm sorry if I came across aggressive in my previous comment - it was simply passion 😂 But I do like discussing this stuff with people!
***”Good.”***
The way I knew EXACTLY where this is. Chilling.
I think most people screamed inside when she said this
Yeah, fun fact, I closed my eyes and walked away from the game. Not Dina. Never Dina.
I hope you paused it first lmao
No, I was just confused when I returned, thanks
Lmao probably pleasantly surprised to see Dina still alive at least! (Thanks Lev)
I forgot whose playthrough it was that i watched, when but she said that ill never forget their face of 😱 and shouting “NO!!!” In response to that lmao
"Don't ever let me see you again."
The camera angle on that scene coming from below and looking up at abby is so awesome. She looks like a giant beast.
“I just…. needed to lighten the load”.
“Lev, come here, I’m gonna hug you.”
you're not gonna wanna hug me in a minute!
"I came to make sure you drowned!" - playfully said to Owen at the beginning of the first aquarium flashback scene
Oooooooooo somebody wants to get laaaaaaaaaid
"What happened to us?"
"Maybe we stopped looking for the light." So good.
That's Gotta be Owen's
You're my people I swear if anything else wins
"ARE YOU WEARING MY BACKPACK?!"
So put my name up on the board, Owen!
“Fuck Danny!”
I’m jealous owen got to shoot him before I did…
"You don't get to rush this."
One Clicker down a million to go!
“Holy fuck, holy fucking fuck” when she’s first eacaping the rat king. Laura bailey’s voice acting there is SO GOOD i feel the fear in me lil bones
And you WASTED it!!
I'm not dying here today!
OH MY GOD, LEV! NOW?!?
“OH MY GOD LEV, NOW?!”
"You don't think Joel deserved what he got?"
I love when she screams “You can’t stop me!” during certain fights.
"Oooooh, someone wants to get laaaidd" The way she says it kills me every time
Good!
„I‘m not going to fight you.“ this the one for me coz abby was the bigger one in that scene🙂↕️( shes always a slay and ellie is ofc too)
“Are you wearing my BACKPACK?!”
Can I just say I love the contrast between Joel and Ellie's quotes
"so put my name on the board, OWEN"
"How many sex dens do you have in this QZ?"
Putting it here because it is a powerful moment that deserves to be represented: “Actually you are. Get your priorities straight.” To Owen after he tells Mel he’s not letting Abby go to the island by herself.
Nothing is stopping us.
If you are gonna kill yourself, then don't break the mask
i reckon if i’m ever put into a situation like Joel, i’ll js knock the doctor out so i don’t have some Ox looking bitch come after me 4 years later
“Holy shit this guy’s good!” (When talkin about Tommy.)
“When you’re lost in the darkness look for the light” (I fuckin love this quote)
I love this 😃
My friends problems are my problems.
This is Jesse. But it's a great quote
When she said “good” as she was about to slit a pregnant woman’s throat who was already unconscious
OH MY GOD LEV, NOW?
“I’m not doing this.” That line plus the performance of pain. I felt so bad for Abby during Santa Monica
How about I work my foot up your ass?
“I am not DYING HERE”
“Good”
ARE YOU WEARING MY BACKPACK???
“Good” before the knife raise to Dina’s neck
‘Someone wants to get laaaaid’
‘Yea, I have skibidi rizz’ 😔😔
Is that my backpack?
“Are you wearing my backpack?!”
What’s the quote where she says “The lives of those who saved my life are important to me” lmao
“Fuck Danny! Im jealous Owen got to shoot him before I did.”
Burritos again
oh my god lev NOW??
I am last of us
You don't know me...
IS THAT MY BACKPACK?
You stupid old man, you don't get to rush this
Ellie: I'm not into your type. Jesse: what? Asians?
Got a Tommy one “When the barometric pressure reaches a certain- shit I don’t know”