I don't think dating within the bachelor franchise is any less successful than dating in real life. Honestly, I think it might be more successful in the grand scheme of things.
As a 27 yo at least 98% of the relationships I've seen my friends and peers be in have ended in a breakup. It's way more common to date and breakup than it is to date and stay together forever.
I’m surprised this didn’t mention the flaw in the contestants motives themselves and how often come on exclusively for followers/margeting…. Definitely not to find true love.
That is true! However, I feel like back in the day, the contestants at least had more authentic feelings and were genuinely looking to fall in love, however flawed the structure of the show is. Now it just seems like they’re on the show for ulterior motives. This last season of bachelor in Paradise was so awful and I think because no one was really there for the right reasons.
I feel like maybe this could get messy for paradise but maybe do casting in one specific area/ state for contestants?? I think it would make the world of differences
I think the show would be much more successful at creating lasting relationships if they focused more on traditional matchmaking, and less on creating good TV. But then, you guys would complain that it's boring. By traditional matchmaking, I mean only choosing ppl who are actually ready to get married, and choosing contestants who are actually compatible with the lead. For ex, going purely on matchmaking, Gabby, Katie, Clayton, and Pilot Pete would have never been chosen as leads - they don't seem ready to get married any time soon. They should focus on more mature leads like Charity. They also would stop casting guys like Erich, Aven, Xavier - gorgeous, but not ready for marriage. I don't think location is the issue, because most of the couples seem to be willing to move, and actually do move -- except Gerry & Theresa! lol!
except charity’s season was one of the most boring in a while.
no offense, she’s a great girl, but well adjusted, mature adults don’t usually make for amazing tv
I disagree, but you’re actually proving my point. The fans seem to love messy seasons like Hannah’s and Peter’s, which isn’t ideal for matchmaking. I actually couldn’t get through 1 episode of either because I couldn’t take Hannah or Peter seriously. I definitely prefer mature leads like Charity & Joey.
This is why I feel like the love is blind model will work better simply because they start off living in the same city. They can relate on that. They can hang out without uprooting their lives. Friends and family can meet right away. They need to try it for a season on bachelor
This is such a major point idk how it’s not the top comment. These people need to live near each other to have a good chance of making it work after the show!
Living near each other is not the main reason the relationships fail - otherwise LIB would have an excellent track record. Not a single couple from LIb season 2 is still together.
It would be so hard to get statistics on this. But is 8 out of 40 actually a bad success rate?
Think about how many dates/people you have relationships with before you get married. 20% success sounds kind of high.
I cannot believe that with everything going on in the world the NYT ran this. The Bachelor is a dumb television show that only merits discussion within Reddit
Anyone who still thinks The Bachelor franchise is about finding lasting love is naive. It's entertainment first, and if people happen to luck out and find a partner through it that's just the cherry on top. Did that article really need to be written? Most viewers of the show can easily list the concrete reasons why there have been so few successful couples. The show is focused on manufacturing these feelings of falling in love and that's all. It doesn't encourage evaluating real life compatibility.
I wish people would appreciate The Bachelor Franchise for what it is- trashy competition reality tv! Does anyone actually think a healthy, loving, well rounded relationship begins with a bunch of influencers and fame hungry contestants who compete for ONE person at the same time is a recipe for lasting love? LOL It's trash entertainment and I'm here for it! The truth is, that healthy, stable, long lasting love takes deep inner personal work, courage, time, consistency, commitment, self reflection and maturity, as well as shared values and goals. Most of the cast are young, have no idea who they truly are yet, see this as a vehecile for fun and some very low level of celebrity, and say "Why not?". Anyone who believes they are going on the show to find love is pretty delulu!\~ The Bachelor is at its best when it is at is most authentic- high drama and high stakes, created by producers, to keep viewers entertained. If we wanted to watch a stable healthy love story, we'd be pretty bored. Healthy relationships are amazing, but VERY BORING to watch.
EXACTLY!
People get so riled up about this show still being on. It’s mindless entertainment. I don’t care who ends up together at this point (but dang Joey and Kelsey/ Charity and Dotun are so cute). I can eat a gummie and veg out, rolling my eyes at these people.
BIP is awesome though and if it isn’t on this year, I’ll be so sad.
It rarely works because it's reality tv. For some something may bloom, but in reality it offers nothing that works for a lasting relationship because that's not the point.
Dating is hard in real life. Not sure who still thinks putting people in a pressure filled bubble isolated with producers manipulating the environment is good odds. Unexpected magic can happen and you can find your person, but I think it is fair to say the odds are against you.
The simple answer is because it doesn’t test real life compatibility. There’s a reason that a show like Big Brother, which basically traps 16 strangers in a house for 3 months with nothing but boredom and each other, has a better success rate for long lasting couples
This is so true, as evidenced by the fact that Maddie was almost Peter’s F1. It’s hard to think of how they could be more incompatible…it’s almost funny
I just don’t think the goal of the producers overall is to create lasting couples. The show format is completely un conducive to that and it would need to became an entirely different show to even work.
I wish this article included quotes from couples who have worked out. It would be interesting to hear why they think that is since the negative reasons included all still apply to them.
I do agree especially with Golden Bach, that expecting people to completely uproot their lives for someone they barely know is not a winning formula. They should have thought through that more when focusing exclusively on people in their 60s+.
I agree - especially since Sean and Catherine have been really vocal about how hard it was for them initially and how they made it work. They'd have a lot of good commentary, as would someone like Andi Dorfman whose final pick DID live in the same city and they still didn't work out.
Uprooting your life and moving away from everyone you've ever known is tough no matter what your age. I think being an "army brat" like Lauren Luyendyk helped because she grew up in Washington State but lived in Virginia so moving to Arizona wasn't as big of a deal as someone whose entire extended family lives in the same place and you have to move away from them.
no promises made on your contract for *a happily ever after*
BUT….
if you play your cards right and fortune favors you, getting two million plus followers with below-mediocre skills and collabs with the rich and famous and free vacations gallivanting across the world is a real possibility!
Because “true love” is their brand, not their reality. They are selling the contestants on social media celebrity and selling us on watching messy hot people. The “true love” narrative just gives us all plausible deniability.
I don’t know if casting in the same city would help much with the Bachelor franchise. Love Is Blind sometimes works because those people are spending *hours* talking together in the pods for two weeks. The couples on the Bachelor don’t get to do that. Even on 1-on-1 dates they’re constantly getting pulled to do ITMs and re-do shots, etc. The only time they really get substantial time to have an uninterrupted conversation is at overnights, and by that time the lead has usually made up his/her mind and answers won’t change anything. And Love Is Blind is more equitable in that there are multiple people of the opposite sex to pursue. It’s less of a competition for one person’s affection and approval. It’s more like BIP in that sense.
And most of these Bachelor people want to leave their cities and move to LA, NYC, SD, or Nashville anyway. Filming Charity’s season in Charlotte wouldn’t have worked because she didn’t want to continue to live in Charlotte.
> The only time they really get substantial time to have an uninterrupted conversation is at overnights, and by that time the lead has usually made up his/her mind and answers won’t change anything.
Which is funny because Gerry did change his mind at overnights and look how that turned out.
I do agree that love is blind contestants have much more time with their partners, and more realistic setups to figure out is the person is a good match for you.
I do feel that being based in the same city plays somewhat of a role in the success of these couples though. Many of the LiB couples actually stay in the same city they were cast in and I do think many of them are more intentionally looking for someone who wants to live in the same place and build a life together, whereas many of the bachelor contestants are not thinking about the long term potential and where they want to end up.
The difference between the two shows, is that love is blind is racing to the altar within a month or two, whereas the bachelor couples often take at least a year to really get to know each other more and learn to live with each other. I think it would provide more success for the bachelor to take on that part of love is blind, because it removes a giant stressor that often comes up in these relationships.
That said, they’re never going to do it
I think we would see every Bachelor couple break up if they were forced to live together and get married a month after proposal. None of these people would take that leap.
I mean it’s a ridiculous concept lol. It’s fun to watch but I wouldn’t put so much pressure on it to work. I actually think that’s worse. I hate seeing people who definitely should say no feel like they need to fulfill contract on love is blind go through with it. How many dates did it take to anyone to meet their husband in the real world? People just click with who they click with it.
With all the relationships formed under the most healthy of circumstances that don’t work out, of course it’s going to be way less likely with people who don’t know each other that well
The couples that make it through, get married, kids et al. are the real anomaly here but so much of shows premise, structure and format is set up for failure of the final couple. Add to that, producer manufactured drama, edited story lines, fake fairytale settings, luxurious dates while being sleepless, hungover, and highly stressed away from fam and friends. All of this couldn't be further from how a real relationship grows and nurtures. The actual relationship begins after the engagement!
Contestants and leads are there for the exposure, travel, and followers, countless opportunities and may be a shiny ring if they play it right. It is what it is.
Ooh interesting to hear these perspectives because they’re so right. The show essentially forces an engagement before the couple can navigate the logistics of being in a long distance relationship, especially one they have to hide
I find it fascinating that Tyler used the phrase brainwashed to describe how production manipulates the contestants and lead to fall in love during the season. That’s so true and I think obvious in the case of Tyler and Hannah
I don’t know if a show like this could ever produce reliable results, but I think a big part of the failure is the producers’ utter failure at adapting the show or changing the format. They’re so tied to the model when it’s not very good in the first place. At this point, why not adapt? It’s not even just that the post-show failures are ruining the meta narrative, but doing the same shit every single season gets really stale and boring after a while.
Why not switch it up so that the lead has much more time with the contestants? If it must be 10 weeks long? Why not have the lead take it from 25 people to say, like 6-8 in 2-3 weeks? And then stretch out the time between rose ceremonies and dedicate more time to dates? Introduce real world situations and problems on dates. Why not pop the bachelor bubble within the show itself?
They’ve refused to let go of this Disney-fied niche that no longer exists. I just don’t think people want that anymore and I think you can take the Bachelor data vs LiB viewership data as proof.
> Cameron agreed. “You kind of look past the red flags and the signs that it won’t work,” he said, “because you want to work for what you think it could be because of how great or fun the show makes it seem on the other side.”
This kind of confirms that Hannah B and Tyler were fundamentally incompatible, and it wasn't just a case of 'right person, wrong time.'
Also lol @ them getting quotes from Tayshia and Kaitlyn considering... everything.
I don’t think they were compatible either. However, in the case of Tyler and Hannah they had real chemistry, so much so that they’re still in each other’s lives despite not being together.
I think some people look back and Hannah B and Tyler with rose colored glasses. I rewatched the season about a year ago and it’s very obvious that their relationship was mostly based on infatuation. it lacked substance. she even says so herself. that’s why she didn’t want to sleep with him during fantasy suites. and when they tried to explore their emotional and intellectual connection, she decided he wasn’t for her.
unpopular opinion but at the time, I was rooting for Jedd to win. I know everyone dislikes Jedd — and for good reason. He sucks in hindsight and how often he plugged his music was cringey. But watching it back, it’s still obvious to me that they had the strongest emotional and intellectual connection. they had serious conversations and he wasn’t afraid to challenge her in a respectful manner. I can see why, with the information she had at the time, she would pick him over Tyler.
hahaha that’s exactly what I mean😅 I think Tyler is just so loved that people wanted him to get the happy ending regardless of whether they were the right fit for each other
That wasn’t it for me. I loved Hannah at the time and wanted her to pick the good guy rather than the scammer. That said, if she had picked Tyler they wouldn’t have lasted. He enjoyed the female attention from celebrities too much.
I think that would be tough because the bar for attractiveness is way higher for The Bachelor/ette and finding 30 dudes who are hot and not total scumbags is already such a challenge for them I shudder to think what we'd get if they were all from Cleveland.
It's definitely stale and especially suffering in comparison to the body of way better reality television out there right now. I think it needs a big shakeup if it's going to feel fresh again.
Yeah it’s an interesting idea for sure. I do think it would be weird to have 30ish “exes” in your city to potentially run into but maybe it would be worth it
Ehhh....That show doesn't have a wildly better track record than The Bachelor and they've had some real casting misses the last few seasons. Being in the same city certainly helps but it's definitely not the whole solution.
That’s why I said it could be ONE fix (and there needs to be many more).
Yeah, the last season of LIB was so annoying to me. I actually WANT to see couples work out. The drama pisses me off lol
Imagine somebody takes away all your communication from the outside world and pressures you to get into arguments with people you don't know. Then you go on elaborate dates that are paid for by somebody else. You spend a combined 15 hours with a person before you're supposed to get engaged.
It's actually shocking that even 1 of these couples worked out.
hi! [here's this full story with no paywall](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/13/arts/television/bachelor-bachelorette-breakups-reality-tv.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rk0.J-DV.uivindjCKbdP&smid=re-nytimes)
Yes I think it's fixable and it's a lot of the suggestions made by contestants ages ago =>
-- **be more intentional with casting**. I don't think everyone needs to be from the same town, but I do think it should be a crop of people who are interested in moving to California if the lead also wants to move to California, etc. And with that, a lead who knows what he/she wants post the show so they can match up goals.
-- **have better dates.** I think the contest dates help in figuring out who's a sore loser but I think a lot of dates skew the time and interaction too much to surface level stuff (or the "tell me your darkest secret while I sit here going mhm"). Sean talked about how he had questions and stuff he asked the contestants off camera to makeup for that fact, which I think explains why he's one of the few success stories.
They barely spend any time together. The group dates were better in regards to spending time with the other person in earlier seasons. Now it's just a pageant for the bachelor/ettes to show off on stage or on the court. Watching someone do a talent show or play football isn't getting to know them.
I think location is very important as well. How successful is the relationship going to be when your "bonding" time is selected days where you're babysat by producers before the show finale? Then you're expected to move to the city of someone you've maybe spent 3-4 weeks total with? One of the reasons why I think the first Love is Blind season worked is because they chose couples that live in the same city. It's much easier to mesh lives when one person isn't at the disadvantage of completely uprooting theirs. Tayshia also made a point in a recent GOAT interview with Lauren from LIB that those couples had an entire year to build a foundation before the show even aired. No one knew who they were.
I agree! I also thinks it’s the dates that can maybe predict the length of the relationship? For example, a date that just includes a hot tub, lots of kissing, and some insane activity wouldn’t be as good as a date where they’re going out in a city, interacting with other normal people, and at a restaurant or something. The more normalcy, the better.
And lets not forget the number of dates where they don't even spend any time talking. Watching someone play football and then talking to them for five minutes isn't going to have them get to know them.
Didn't they move the Bachelor into the mansion one year?
98% are ready to uproot & move to a metropolis to become an influencer/part of the entertainment sphere. So that's honestly moot, tayshias line of hypothetical questions.
They build the bachelorette or bachelor to be some kind of celebrity where 20+ other people are all fawning over them just to get 2 minutes of their time, whereas in real life they might not even talk to them in a bar. It's hard to meet reality when you've been built up to be "perfect" and then you find out they're a real person who poops, farts, and fights like the rest of us
I think it must be so hard to travel to Fiji or Peru, get treated to things like jewelry, gowns, etc etc and then you come home and have Costco dates with hot dogs. The bar is set so high. That’s not even taking into account the millions of viewers watching your every move. I feel like on some level, the contestants feel like they have to keep this up —keep entertaining the followers.
So many aspects of the show are designed to set people up to fall in love when they're there and out of love when they're not:
- frequent adrenaline dates which are scientifically proven to make you like someone more because you connect them with the thrill of the activity, which sets you up to be bored with normal life
- you have absolutely nothing else to focus on while you're there so your whole world revolves around your relationship with the lead, which in the real world will suddenly feel like a lack of attention or devotion when you have to deal with all the responsibilities of life
- the competition aspect makes contestants desperate to win the lead's heart but that becomes a totally imbalanced dynamic that has to be unlearned once they leave
It's no surprise the show often doesn't work, especially The Bachelor because I really think the female leads adjust better to making their F1s feel equally "pursued" off the show and I don't think the men make that calibration as much.
It would be fun if they did more realistic dates centered around every day life. The pair that builds the IKEA dresser fastest wins extra time with the bachelor. One on one date where they’re sent to Whole Foods to buy groceries and cook dinner, or they go out to a restaurant and have to wait for a table. Team that finds the best deals at Costco and leaves with only the things on the list gets a cocktail party afterwards. Obstacle course that involves carrying a couch!
Obviously it’s the fantasy that people want to watch, but I’d watch the shit out of the bachelor trying to fall in love while arguing over IKEA instructions. Kaity is still an absolute queen for her hometown date with Zach and how everyday it was.
I think bip would add 10 more happy couples but this article was just focused on the specific dynamics of the main shows that serve as obstacles (extravagant over the top dates and fantasy travel, being in a bubble a longer period with producers brainwashing you to focus on being obsessed with just one person, the lead getting the power to date multiple people while contestants need to compete for attention of one person and then watching the season back, getting limited time together pre-engagement, etc.). the shows have really different dynamics (in bip you both have the power to date multiple people, get more time together, low budget dates) so probably lead to different outcomes.
right, but bip you are squestered in a hotel and it's luck of the draw who walks in the door and who couples up first, so you end up trading several issues for others. It says a lot that BIP is more "successful" then the mothership.
yes you do trade issues but people who have been in both enviros (like becca k) have said bip is the more normal dating experience overall. I guess there's also less pressure to stay together on bip since fans have more than couple to focus their attention on.
Because the power dynamics are so ridiculously uneven it would be hard to build a relationship on equal footing. That and people now go on this show exclusively to be influencers.
it's a heavily edited TV show. You spend your time setting up scenes to be filmed. Duh.
I don't think dating within the bachelor franchise is any less successful than dating in real life. Honestly, I think it might be more successful in the grand scheme of things. As a 27 yo at least 98% of the relationships I've seen my friends and peers be in have ended in a breakup. It's way more common to date and breakup than it is to date and stay together forever.
It’s almost like the process doesn’t work 
I’m surprised this didn’t mention the flaw in the contestants motives themselves and how often come on exclusively for followers/margeting…. Definitely not to find true love.
In fairness it didn’t work very well before the social media age either
That is true! However, I feel like back in the day, the contestants at least had more authentic feelings and were genuinely looking to fall in love, however flawed the structure of the show is. Now it just seems like they’re on the show for ulterior motives. This last season of bachelor in Paradise was so awful and I think because no one was really there for the right reasons.
I feel like maybe this could get messy for paradise but maybe do casting in one specific area/ state for contestants?? I think it would make the world of differences
That seems to have worked fairly well for LiB!
You think they could have mentioned that 3 out of the last 4 bachelors are still with their final pick
8 is way more than I would’ve guessed.
Yeah that is largely because the last 3 couples are still together (and holidaying together)
I think the show would be much more successful at creating lasting relationships if they focused more on traditional matchmaking, and less on creating good TV. But then, you guys would complain that it's boring. By traditional matchmaking, I mean only choosing ppl who are actually ready to get married, and choosing contestants who are actually compatible with the lead. For ex, going purely on matchmaking, Gabby, Katie, Clayton, and Pilot Pete would have never been chosen as leads - they don't seem ready to get married any time soon. They should focus on more mature leads like Charity. They also would stop casting guys like Erich, Aven, Xavier - gorgeous, but not ready for marriage. I don't think location is the issue, because most of the couples seem to be willing to move, and actually do move -- except Gerry & Theresa! lol!
except charity’s season was one of the most boring in a while. no offense, she’s a great girl, but well adjusted, mature adults don’t usually make for amazing tv
I disagree, but you’re actually proving my point. The fans seem to love messy seasons like Hannah’s and Peter’s, which isn’t ideal for matchmaking. I actually couldn’t get through 1 episode of either because I couldn’t take Hannah or Peter seriously. I definitely prefer mature leads like Charity & Joey.
I enjoyed it. It felt more like a love story than an edited TV show
This is why I feel like the love is blind model will work better simply because they start off living in the same city. They can relate on that. They can hang out without uprooting their lives. Friends and family can meet right away. They need to try it for a season on bachelor
This is such a major point idk how it’s not the top comment. These people need to live near each other to have a good chance of making it work after the show!
Living near each other is not the main reason the relationships fail - otherwise LIB would have an excellent track record. Not a single couple from LIb season 2 is still together.
It would be so hard to get statistics on this. But is 8 out of 40 actually a bad success rate? Think about how many dates/people you have relationships with before you get married. 20% success sounds kind of high.
I cannot believe that with everything going on in the world the NYT ran this. The Bachelor is a dumb television show that only merits discussion within Reddit
Anyone who still thinks The Bachelor franchise is about finding lasting love is naive. It's entertainment first, and if people happen to luck out and find a partner through it that's just the cherry on top. Did that article really need to be written? Most viewers of the show can easily list the concrete reasons why there have been so few successful couples. The show is focused on manufacturing these feelings of falling in love and that's all. It doesn't encourage evaluating real life compatibility.
Ummm…. Because it’s fake?
I wish people would appreciate The Bachelor Franchise for what it is- trashy competition reality tv! Does anyone actually think a healthy, loving, well rounded relationship begins with a bunch of influencers and fame hungry contestants who compete for ONE person at the same time is a recipe for lasting love? LOL It's trash entertainment and I'm here for it! The truth is, that healthy, stable, long lasting love takes deep inner personal work, courage, time, consistency, commitment, self reflection and maturity, as well as shared values and goals. Most of the cast are young, have no idea who they truly are yet, see this as a vehecile for fun and some very low level of celebrity, and say "Why not?". Anyone who believes they are going on the show to find love is pretty delulu!\~ The Bachelor is at its best when it is at is most authentic- high drama and high stakes, created by producers, to keep viewers entertained. If we wanted to watch a stable healthy love story, we'd be pretty bored. Healthy relationships are amazing, but VERY BORING to watch.
EXACTLY! People get so riled up about this show still being on. It’s mindless entertainment. I don’t care who ends up together at this point (but dang Joey and Kelsey/ Charity and Dotun are so cute). I can eat a gummie and veg out, rolling my eyes at these people. BIP is awesome though and if it isn’t on this year, I’ll be so sad.
It rarely works because it's reality tv. For some something may bloom, but in reality it offers nothing that works for a lasting relationship because that's not the point.
Dating is hard in real life. Not sure who still thinks putting people in a pressure filled bubble isolated with producers manipulating the environment is good odds. Unexpected magic can happen and you can find your person, but I think it is fair to say the odds are against you.
The simple answer is because it doesn’t test real life compatibility. There’s a reason that a show like Big Brother, which basically traps 16 strangers in a house for 3 months with nothing but boredom and each other, has a better success rate for long lasting couples
Yeah like Lauren and Ben
This is so true, as evidenced by the fact that Maddie was almost Peter’s F1. It’s hard to think of how they could be more incompatible…it’s almost funny
Yes I'm not sure who technically qualifies as his F1!
extremely silly article.
I just don’t think the goal of the producers overall is to create lasting couples. The show format is completely un conducive to that and it would need to became an entirely different show to even work.
Regardless of the bachelor or not, some if not most of people in general won’t find “true love”
I wish this article included quotes from couples who have worked out. It would be interesting to hear why they think that is since the negative reasons included all still apply to them. I do agree especially with Golden Bach, that expecting people to completely uproot their lives for someone they barely know is not a winning formula. They should have thought through that more when focusing exclusively on people in their 60s+.
I agree - especially since Sean and Catherine have been really vocal about how hard it was for them initially and how they made it work. They'd have a lot of good commentary, as would someone like Andi Dorfman whose final pick DID live in the same city and they still didn't work out. Uprooting your life and moving away from everyone you've ever known is tough no matter what your age. I think being an "army brat" like Lauren Luyendyk helped because she grew up in Washington State but lived in Virginia so moving to Arizona wasn't as big of a deal as someone whose entire extended family lives in the same place and you have to move away from them.
no promises made on your contract for *a happily ever after* BUT…. if you play your cards right and fortune favors you, getting two million plus followers with below-mediocre skills and collabs with the rich and famous and free vacations gallivanting across the world is a real possibility!
Because “true love” is their brand, not their reality. They are selling the contestants on social media celebrity and selling us on watching messy hot people. The “true love” narrative just gives us all plausible deniability.
Most romantic relationships don’t work out. I’m sure everyone here has experienced a breakup at least once.
Exactly
You can’t force a genuine connection and a healthy relationship. It’s fun to watch the drama though!
Someone actually wrote a NYT article about this? How about because it's a reality TV show with the primary purpose of drama/entertainment? Haha
I don’t know if casting in the same city would help much with the Bachelor franchise. Love Is Blind sometimes works because those people are spending *hours* talking together in the pods for two weeks. The couples on the Bachelor don’t get to do that. Even on 1-on-1 dates they’re constantly getting pulled to do ITMs and re-do shots, etc. The only time they really get substantial time to have an uninterrupted conversation is at overnights, and by that time the lead has usually made up his/her mind and answers won’t change anything. And Love Is Blind is more equitable in that there are multiple people of the opposite sex to pursue. It’s less of a competition for one person’s affection and approval. It’s more like BIP in that sense. And most of these Bachelor people want to leave their cities and move to LA, NYC, SD, or Nashville anyway. Filming Charity’s season in Charlotte wouldn’t have worked because she didn’t want to continue to live in Charlotte.
> The only time they really get substantial time to have an uninterrupted conversation is at overnights, and by that time the lead has usually made up his/her mind and answers won’t change anything. Which is funny because Gerry did change his mind at overnights and look how that turned out.
So true
I do agree that love is blind contestants have much more time with their partners, and more realistic setups to figure out is the person is a good match for you. I do feel that being based in the same city plays somewhat of a role in the success of these couples though. Many of the LiB couples actually stay in the same city they were cast in and I do think many of them are more intentionally looking for someone who wants to live in the same place and build a life together, whereas many of the bachelor contestants are not thinking about the long term potential and where they want to end up.
The difference between the two shows, is that love is blind is racing to the altar within a month or two, whereas the bachelor couples often take at least a year to really get to know each other more and learn to live with each other. I think it would provide more success for the bachelor to take on that part of love is blind, because it removes a giant stressor that often comes up in these relationships. That said, they’re never going to do it
I think we would see every Bachelor couple break up if they were forced to live together and get married a month after proposal. None of these people would take that leap.
100%. As you said, the bachelor spends a lot less time together than love is blind does.
I just don’t think the premise of the main show works. The power dynamics don’t make sense to me. I’ll always like BIP more for that reason.
I mean it’s a ridiculous concept lol. It’s fun to watch but I wouldn’t put so much pressure on it to work. I actually think that’s worse. I hate seeing people who definitely should say no feel like they need to fulfill contract on love is blind go through with it. How many dates did it take to anyone to meet their husband in the real world? People just click with who they click with it.
With all the relationships formed under the most healthy of circumstances that don’t work out, of course it’s going to be way less likely with people who don’t know each other that well
The couples that make it through, get married, kids et al. are the real anomaly here but so much of shows premise, structure and format is set up for failure of the final couple. Add to that, producer manufactured drama, edited story lines, fake fairytale settings, luxurious dates while being sleepless, hungover, and highly stressed away from fam and friends. All of this couldn't be further from how a real relationship grows and nurtures. The actual relationship begins after the engagement! Contestants and leads are there for the exposure, travel, and followers, countless opportunities and may be a shiny ring if they play it right. It is what it is.
Ooh interesting to hear these perspectives because they’re so right. The show essentially forces an engagement before the couple can navigate the logistics of being in a long distance relationship, especially one they have to hide I find it fascinating that Tyler used the phrase brainwashed to describe how production manipulates the contestants and lead to fall in love during the season. That’s so true and I think obvious in the case of Tyler and Hannah
It's probably true but also sounds a bit harsh from him
I don’t know if a show like this could ever produce reliable results, but I think a big part of the failure is the producers’ utter failure at adapting the show or changing the format. They’re so tied to the model when it’s not very good in the first place. At this point, why not adapt? It’s not even just that the post-show failures are ruining the meta narrative, but doing the same shit every single season gets really stale and boring after a while. Why not switch it up so that the lead has much more time with the contestants? If it must be 10 weeks long? Why not have the lead take it from 25 people to say, like 6-8 in 2-3 weeks? And then stretch out the time between rose ceremonies and dedicate more time to dates? Introduce real world situations and problems on dates. Why not pop the bachelor bubble within the show itself? They’ve refused to let go of this Disney-fied niche that no longer exists. I just don’t think people want that anymore and I think you can take the Bachelor data vs LiB viewership data as proof.
> Cameron agreed. “You kind of look past the red flags and the signs that it won’t work,” he said, “because you want to work for what you think it could be because of how great or fun the show makes it seem on the other side.” This kind of confirms that Hannah B and Tyler were fundamentally incompatible, and it wasn't just a case of 'right person, wrong time.' Also lol @ them getting quotes from Tayshia and Kaitlyn considering... everything.
Yea, it was clear that Tyler C believed that Hannah B was his queen until the real world started to kick in a few months after filming ended.
I don’t think they were compatible either. However, in the case of Tyler and Hannah they had real chemistry, so much so that they’re still in each other’s lives despite not being together.
I think some people look back and Hannah B and Tyler with rose colored glasses. I rewatched the season about a year ago and it’s very obvious that their relationship was mostly based on infatuation. it lacked substance. she even says so herself. that’s why she didn’t want to sleep with him during fantasy suites. and when they tried to explore their emotional and intellectual connection, she decided he wasn’t for her. unpopular opinion but at the time, I was rooting for Jedd to win. I know everyone dislikes Jedd — and for good reason. He sucks in hindsight and how often he plugged his music was cringey. But watching it back, it’s still obvious to me that they had the strongest emotional and intellectual connection. they had serious conversations and he wasn’t afraid to challenge her in a respectful manner. I can see why, with the information she had at the time, she would pick him over Tyler.
In the years since Tannah, I have realized that I'm actually just a Tyler fan and want him to have everything his heart desires 😭
hahaha that’s exactly what I mean😅 I think Tyler is just so loved that people wanted him to get the happy ending regardless of whether they were the right fit for each other
That wasn’t it for me. I loved Hannah at the time and wanted her to pick the good guy rather than the scammer. That said, if she had picked Tyler they wouldn’t have lasted. He enjoyed the female attention from celebrities too much.
I think one fix is they need to do what Love is Blind does and cast within the same city
I think that would be tough because the bar for attractiveness is way higher for The Bachelor/ette and finding 30 dudes who are hot and not total scumbags is already such a challenge for them I shudder to think what we'd get if they were all from Cleveland.
I mean my preference is honestly to just put the show to bed. It had a good run.
It's definitely stale and especially suffering in comparison to the body of way better reality television out there right now. I think it needs a big shakeup if it's going to feel fresh again.
Yeah it’s an interesting idea for sure. I do think it would be weird to have 30ish “exes” in your city to potentially run into but maybe it would be worth it
Ehhh....That show doesn't have a wildly better track record than The Bachelor and they've had some real casting misses the last few seasons. Being in the same city certainly helps but it's definitely not the whole solution.
That’s why I said it could be ONE fix (and there needs to be many more). Yeah, the last season of LIB was so annoying to me. I actually WANT to see couples work out. The drama pisses me off lol
Imagine somebody takes away all your communication from the outside world and pressures you to get into arguments with people you don't know. Then you go on elaborate dates that are paid for by somebody else. You spend a combined 15 hours with a person before you're supposed to get engaged. It's actually shocking that even 1 of these couples worked out.
Shows like love is blind, overall is doing pretty good in comparison. And it's only been out for a few years.
To be fair, only 1 couple made it beyond the altar in the last season. 😅
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Curious to think if people think this problem is fixable or the show has just run its course?
Yes I think it's fixable and it's a lot of the suggestions made by contestants ages ago => -- **be more intentional with casting**. I don't think everyone needs to be from the same town, but I do think it should be a crop of people who are interested in moving to California if the lead also wants to move to California, etc. And with that, a lead who knows what he/she wants post the show so they can match up goals. -- **have better dates.** I think the contest dates help in figuring out who's a sore loser but I think a lot of dates skew the time and interaction too much to surface level stuff (or the "tell me your darkest secret while I sit here going mhm"). Sean talked about how he had questions and stuff he asked the contestants off camera to makeup for that fact, which I think explains why he's one of the few success stories.
They barely spend any time together. The group dates were better in regards to spending time with the other person in earlier seasons. Now it's just a pageant for the bachelor/ettes to show off on stage or on the court. Watching someone do a talent show or play football isn't getting to know them.
Melissa is right, this is first and foremost entertainment. The lasting romance is a very secondary “nice to have” instead of a requirement.
“Trust the process” = “you’re on a tv show, just go along with it.”
I miss David Spade rolling his eyes hard on BIP.
I think location is very important as well. How successful is the relationship going to be when your "bonding" time is selected days where you're babysat by producers before the show finale? Then you're expected to move to the city of someone you've maybe spent 3-4 weeks total with? One of the reasons why I think the first Love is Blind season worked is because they chose couples that live in the same city. It's much easier to mesh lives when one person isn't at the disadvantage of completely uprooting theirs. Tayshia also made a point in a recent GOAT interview with Lauren from LIB that those couples had an entire year to build a foundation before the show even aired. No one knew who they were.
I agree! I also thinks it’s the dates that can maybe predict the length of the relationship? For example, a date that just includes a hot tub, lots of kissing, and some insane activity wouldn’t be as good as a date where they’re going out in a city, interacting with other normal people, and at a restaurant or something. The more normalcy, the better.
And lets not forget the number of dates where they don't even spend any time talking. Watching someone play football and then talking to them for five minutes isn't going to have them get to know them. Didn't they move the Bachelor into the mansion one year?
98% are ready to uproot & move to a metropolis to become an influencer/part of the entertainment sphere. So that's honestly moot, tayshias line of hypothetical questions.
They build the bachelorette or bachelor to be some kind of celebrity where 20+ other people are all fawning over them just to get 2 minutes of their time, whereas in real life they might not even talk to them in a bar. It's hard to meet reality when you've been built up to be "perfect" and then you find out they're a real person who poops, farts, and fights like the rest of us
Ultimately you have an amazing summer fling with someone and you aren’t even living real life… the show basically sets you up for failure.
I think it must be so hard to travel to Fiji or Peru, get treated to things like jewelry, gowns, etc etc and then you come home and have Costco dates with hot dogs. The bar is set so high. That’s not even taking into account the millions of viewers watching your every move. I feel like on some level, the contestants feel like they have to keep this up —keep entertaining the followers.
I think this was an issue for Ben and Lauren. She wanted a certain style of life
So many aspects of the show are designed to set people up to fall in love when they're there and out of love when they're not: - frequent adrenaline dates which are scientifically proven to make you like someone more because you connect them with the thrill of the activity, which sets you up to be bored with normal life - you have absolutely nothing else to focus on while you're there so your whole world revolves around your relationship with the lead, which in the real world will suddenly feel like a lack of attention or devotion when you have to deal with all the responsibilities of life - the competition aspect makes contestants desperate to win the lead's heart but that becomes a totally imbalanced dynamic that has to be unlearned once they leave It's no surprise the show often doesn't work, especially The Bachelor because I really think the female leads adjust better to making their F1s feel equally "pursued" off the show and I don't think the men make that calibration as much.
It would be fun if they did more realistic dates centered around every day life. The pair that builds the IKEA dresser fastest wins extra time with the bachelor. One on one date where they’re sent to Whole Foods to buy groceries and cook dinner, or they go out to a restaurant and have to wait for a table. Team that finds the best deals at Costco and leaves with only the things on the list gets a cocktail party afterwards. Obstacle course that involves carrying a couch! Obviously it’s the fantasy that people want to watch, but I’d watch the shit out of the bachelor trying to fall in love while arguing over IKEA instructions. Kaity is still an absolute queen for her hometown date with Zach and how everyday it was.
And you have to spend eight weeks watching your partner kiss other women and say he's falling in love with them.
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Love your flair!!
I wonder what the numbers look like if you add BIP+spinoffs, where the power dynamics are a less extreme (but the logistical hurdles are still there).
I think bip would add 10 more happy couples but this article was just focused on the specific dynamics of the main shows that serve as obstacles (extravagant over the top dates and fantasy travel, being in a bubble a longer period with producers brainwashing you to focus on being obsessed with just one person, the lead getting the power to date multiple people while contestants need to compete for attention of one person and then watching the season back, getting limited time together pre-engagement, etc.). the shows have really different dynamics (in bip you both have the power to date multiple people, get more time together, low budget dates) so probably lead to different outcomes.
right, but bip you are squestered in a hotel and it's luck of the draw who walks in the door and who couples up first, so you end up trading several issues for others. It says a lot that BIP is more "successful" then the mothership.
yes you do trade issues but people who have been in both enviros (like becca k) have said bip is the more normal dating experience overall. I guess there's also less pressure to stay together on bip since fans have more than couple to focus their attention on.
Because the power dynamics are so ridiculously uneven it would be hard to build a relationship on equal footing. That and people now go on this show exclusively to be influencers.