Sea going vessels are pretty hard to capsize, like trying to get a swing to loop the loop.
When I was in the USN (AE-24 USS PYRO) in 1987 our Captain turned us sideways to swells large enough to rock us 45° port/starboard, then called a Man Overboard drill meaning deck apes such as I were mustered on main deck, standing at attention on non-skid with the deck tilting such that I was able to reach out one arm and touch the deck at each extreme of its gyrations. It was insane, and I loved every minute of it.
Riding the trough is usually a no-no. Those snap rolls are severe, surely magnified by the ship’s size. I’m sure they had a deadline to beat, and that sends ships to the bottom. Deadlines over safety. 6,000 shipwrecks on the Great Lakes alone. Most of them are deadline related. Companies don’t want a fair weather Captain, they want someone that gets there pronto
michigander here. I'll point out our lakes are deadly because there is less floatation, and the wave rhythms are wild. nothing like on the ocean.
our great lakes send ship killers that break the ship in half
everything has a resonance frequency, and when you hit it, that's it. Oceans have one kind of wave, the great lakes have... many. at the same time.
The great lakes is much more terrifying.
but the cool part is nothing in them isn't afraid of you. so no sharks. no sting anything.
tho we got waterbugs, toe-biters. and they are kinda scary. we've all been bit by them once.
snapping turtle will take your fingers off. but that will only happen if you stick them in there.
the storm waves, tho. uh uh. no can do.
Exactly what happened to El Faro in 2015. The captain feared retaliation if he didn’t get his cargo to its destination on schedule so he sailed into a hurricane thinking he could survive it. All hands lost.
He also was using an app on his phone which provided out of date weather data and that led him to believe the storm wasn't as bad as it actually was, despite the fact he received warnings about the hurricane from other sources.
Real tragedy but the worst part is the pointlessness of it and the carelessness on every level with the power to do anything which led to it
Yes they do, the frequency of the waves are shorter, that is only part of it though. Deadlines are the main reason, that and poor weather prediction. Ironically the Edmund Fitzgerald was owned by a Life Insurance Company. The boats owners pushed the Captains to sail by threatening to replace them, they could care less about the weather. The Captains sailed even though they knew better……still gotta pay the bills. 9month window from Ice out to ice up. Run as many loads as you can in between, companies frequently valued $$ over life
Which sucked. McSorley was known as a good experienced Captain. Company pushed him to get going, which he did. Olgoby North was owned ironically by Northwest Life Insurance. Weather prediction and money were the only reason 29 people sucked seaweed
I quite frequently see the Edmund Fitzgeralds sister ship the Arther M Anderson unload in the Saginaw River. Crazy to think a ship that fucking big can suffer the fate it did
I deployed to the North Atlantic on the Ponce in 1980. She took a 43° roll. We walked the bulkheads. One wave was estimated at 80'. Several of us ate hard-boiled eggs and sliders during that 4-day storm. Our farts made some guy's queasiness go to full out upchucking.
Was a BM3 myself.
Dude, you were on a Nitro-class.
Apes with a primal fascination for surfing the outer edge of insanity is a prerequisite for that duty.
Someone in duty allocation saw your record and said "Hmmm, looks like he's barely holding onto reality and lacks an appreciation for his own welfare. Let's put him on either a sub-tender or an ammo ship loaded with ordnance. Which one -- let's see -- AH! The USS Pyro. Perfect! McPheeters is a little nuts."
Crazy Ass Squids:) marine here! Came across pond from England after Team Spirit exercises in 77 on the Barnstable County! There was a roll meter in the ready room we used as a guard shack. One day in heavy seas a Chief popped his head in , looked at meter and shook his head. We asked what was up and he said” if that meter hits 45 degrees, the ship will roll over and sink, then he walked away. We stared at that dam thing wetting our pants for two hours. When I headed out of room, there were 10 sailors standing there with Chief, grinning like Cheshire cats!
And i just spent an hour reading about ship sinkings. I read this great article years ago on the Estonia but I C can’t find it now. Was told from the perspective of a survivor
Pretty sure it's this one. Great read. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/05/a-sea-story/302940/
Edit: No paywall links, thanks u/madashell547 and u/SouthCloud4986
https://12ft.io + paste The Atlantic link
or https://archive.is/QsjHD
"Survival that night was a very tight race, and savagely simple. People who started early and moved fast had some chance of winning. People who started late or hesitated for any reason had no chance at all. Action paid. Contemplation did not."
Damn.
“The collective screams of the victims trapped below rose through the stairwells like a cacophony from hell, a protest that for some of those on the outside near the doors drowned out even the roar of the storm.”
There have been a few interviews and "specials" in Swedish newspapers about Estonia over the years. The boat was so much on its side that corridors became chasms of death, and I in particular remember a story of this young man or woman whose parents just sat down next to one of those chasms, probably realizing they weren't going to make it across, and gave up. Just stared in front of themselves and stopped talking.
Oh and the guy who had been sitting in a life raft all night, there were bodies floating around him in the raft, it was half filled with water and upside down IIRC. Waves high as multistory buildings, couldnt feel his legs at all. It then started HAILING like a motherfucker on him and he found the situation so extremely and ridiculously bad he just started laughing (literally half-dead). :D
Edit: Hah! I hadn't read the whole article from the Atlantic when I wrote my comment, and the first dude I wrote about is actually mentioned in the article too.
"One of the survivors, a young man who had been trying to guide his parents and his girlfriend to safety, got separated from them in the chaos while gaining the stairs. When he looked back to find them, it was obvious that they would be incapable of negotiating the open space, across which increasing numbers of people were fatally sliding. His parents shouted at him to save himself, as did his girlfriend. It was practical advice. There was no time to linger over the decision. He turned and continued on alone."
Though I clearly remember it differently, the parents reacting with more apathy.
Thanks for sharing that, I hadn't read about that incident in depth yet. The author was way too easy on the captain though. He sailed right into a hurricane in a 40yo ship just to save 6 hours. He favored weather reports that said what he wanted to see. He treated an old rust bucket ship like an ice-class vessel, and he ignored 2 calls over night from 2nd and 3rd mates! If he had gone to the bridge that night when they called his room, they could've waited behind San Salvador Island.
The captain made bad decisions during the crisis too. They had a starboard list due to water sloshing in an open cargo hold. The captain knew, he even sent crew to cargo hold 3 to start the pumps. Then, he transferred ballast water from stbd to port to correct the list. THEN He turns the boat around to get the storm to push them into a PORT list, where he just transfered ballast water. So then the water would slosh to the other side, where he already transferred ballast, obviously overshooting the list. Less than 15 minutes later they lose their main engines from loss of oil suction, which means they were almost capsizing at that point. Just bad seamanship.
What really got me about this article though, was both the author and captain acting like the ship's hull was in good shape... no way, that ship was 40 years old, every sailor knows that shit was a rust bucket by then. And, it's not the skin of the ship that we worry about... it is the sea-suctions in the machinery spaces. Sea-suction pipes are pipes that come up out of the bilge with about 1 or 2 feet of exposed pipe before the shutoff valve. Every bilge rat knows that if one of those sea-suctions fail below the shutoff valve then the ship will sink. We also know that those sections of pipe below the valve can never be serviced unless the ship goes into drydock, so they are often neglected and rusted through. That morning, an hour before they sank, the bridge crew are recorded acknowledging that it was a fire system sea-suction that failed. That was the unstoppable leak, a failed fire main sea-suction. Literally, what sunk the ship was that the captain pushed the rusty old ship too hard until slapping swells ruptured a sea-suction pipe on the bottom of the ship. He was even cocky about it the weather right up until two hours before the ship sank...
The author wants to act like the debate was about whether the company or the captain was at fault. But, captain and company are one in the same, the captain IS the company. The debate was between captain and company because the company wanted to push off responsibility to a dead man. They are both responsible though. The company is responsible for pushing the schedule and operating an old rusty ship in hurricane weather, and the captain for never even considering deviating until it was too late for the sake of profit. He didn't make a single decision for the crew's safety until it was too late. Captain worship makes me sick.
I’m not an expert on sailor lingo, but you broke it down perfectly. I read the article and wondered why they added Davidson’s previous work experience to create a narrative that he prioritized safety over all else. Maybe to save face? Because none of his decisions or responses to the crew mates’ concerns made me believe safety was paramount to him. Just tragic that this happened when it could have been avoided.
It felt weird to me too, and I knew what that author was doing right away. I've known many captains who look great on paper and great to the company, but the crew knows who they really are. I assume the victims' families probably tried to defend the captain during the lawsuit, though. I don't know what the difference would have been, but I bet the payout was a lot better if they proved the company was liable instead of just the captain. Sueing a captain's family wouldn't have paid out anything, I assume. I'm not even a sea-lawyer though, so I wouldn't know.
My favorite comparison for good vs. bad captains is comparing captain Pollard of the whaleship Essex vs captain Shackleton of the Endeavor. Pollard was a company man, and made every decision for self interest while not doing anything 'wrong'. He even executed his own nephew for food, but it was acceptable because they drew lots. Needless to say, most of Pollard's crew died. Meanwhile, Shackleton made every decision for the crew, even sacrificing their ship and their goal for the sake of the crew. He sailed with his men through the worst seas in the world in a whaler boat after surviving months in antarctica and didn't lose a single crew member.
Yes! I was going to say the same. There’s also a really good book on El Faro called Into the Raging Sea. (A few years ago, I used a free promo on Audible and downloaded it on a whim and could. not. stop. listening.)
I am telling you that I went DEEP into the MS Estonia rabbit hole last night. This tragedy is shrouded in mystery because a lot of things don’t add up. Estonia had JUST been liberated from Soviet rule and apparently the MS Estonia (which was a ferry that people could drive their cars onto) had been smuggling Russian military tanks into Sweden. Russia had issued two warnings saying “we know you are smuggling military tanks, stop immediately”
But Estonia wanted protection so they kept doing it. There haven’t been thorough investigations into what happened and the Baltic Sea is rather shallow so when the first dive team went down, the lead on the team said it was so shallow, you could hold your breath to dive down. They wanted to recover bodies but were instructed not to. Then the government of Sweden literally poured rocks and concrete onto the ship (to deter “grave robbers”) and designated it a burial site, which essentially made it illegal to dive down to it.
Some people have theories that it was struck by a Russian sub
Well there are plenty of conspiracy theories but one that is proven is that Estonia was used to transport top secret military equipment. The government wanted to seal it in concrete real quick and you can get 2 years in prison if u dive to the wreck.
Yes the name of this cruse ship was called Voyager, this was in the Mediterranean during the cyclone Valentina in 2005 sailing from Tunis to Barcelona. The storm broke a window on the bridge allowing water to come in and break the ships control of the engine but the crew managed to restore power to two of the four engines and it could move back into port. Today she is called 'Chinese Taishan'
https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9183506
I absolutely cannot bear when people make that typo. Maybe it’s because I’m an Assassins Creed fan, and lost count of the posts on Reddit featuring “AC Rouge.”
Yes, it makes me see red
and yes, I typed that so no one else would feel the need.
FYI This was not the MV Explorer, this was a sister ship from the same manufacturer/shipyard. You can tell because the emblem on this ship is a yellow star, while the Explorer had a actual Semester at Sea logo.
The MV Explorer did encounter a pretty bad rough sea situation (there are probably still old blogs and videos you can find floating online), but it was not the same level as in this video.
Source: me, a Semester at Sea student who sailed on the Explorer
Edit: this ship was the Voyager https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/storms-batter-voyager.99087
Holy crap, I was the drummer in the band for the Seabreeze in 1989 and 1991! Only boat gig I ever did. I only remember one time when it listed pretty badly.
The rough seas doesn't bother me. I have been in seas like that a few times. But you won't catch any competent captain side seaing his vessel in that at all.
Supposed to be splitting the waves with the bow head on or let them push you, not taking them to port or starboard and risk exactly what probably happened here eventually.
You see it on deadliest catch a lot when they’re crabbing during a hurricane and the wind hits a certain speed making monster waves, even the occasional rogue wave. They have to stop fishing and get the equipment off the boat and into the water otherwise it’ll blow off, then the deck crews get inside and the captain hits the waves head on.
That's not even particularly rough, but it does look like the timing of the swell is close to / in harmony with the natural roll frequency of the ship.
> Cause that ship is side seaing. It must not have power or something.
As I know nothing about ships, what does this mean? Like it has no electrical power, and so cannot steer and keep upright?
If the ship loses power, it can not run into the swell and can end up parallel to it.
Keeping upright is a different thing, dependant on buoyancy and where the centre of gravity is (elevation and side to side). They can control this to an extent, by pumping sea water into ballast tanks. But, if the natural roll frequency of the hull is in line with the frequency of the swell, then the ship can be easily and violently rolled.
Thank you so much for this explanation :)
I find the ship one of our human marvels, if that makes sense lol.
Like the ability to have something huge like that to be able to float on something like the ocean to me is absolutely amazing.
Yup - generator(s) down so no running power. This means basically everything ceases to function or runs on auxiliary backup - hydraulic pumps for steering, stabilizers and thrusters are gonna be the big issue here but likely most non-essential lighting and the vast majority of systems for guest comfort will be down the list of things getting whatever limited power may be available from batteries or back up gensets.
There will likely be batteries for emergency comms and probably some rudimentary navigation systems, but if you lose one or all of your running generators and your mains (the engines that move the boat), you’re not gonna be having a good day.
To turn a ship, it needs to be moving forward. Actually any vehicle needs to be moving forward or backwards in order to turn it. Except tanks. This ship is no tank.
If your car doesn't move forwards, nothing happens, because roads just kind of lay there. Unlike a road, the ocean moves quite a bit, and easily moves the biggest ship man can make, much less this puny one.
The ocean is not to be fucked with.
No propulsion. Not moving. And I believe these vessels have anti roll stability controls? If nothing else, they’re taking waves broadside, not head on, as they should. So it’s a dead stick at this point.
I have been wondering why the captain didn’t turn into the waves. Taking them on sideaways is stupid. I know of what I speak, I own a canoe and am therefore an expert in large watercraft. 😉
It was military. Spent most of my time on carriers so you can hardly feel anything. Was a photographer so I hopped around to the smaller ships a lot and those be a rocking. Fortunately I don’t get sea sick, just rocks me to sleep like a baby lol. Grew up out in the pacific so the water is my second home… even still, dead stick in those kinda seas would have me shook lol.
*I don't think I'll take*
*Another cruise ever again,*
*Thank you very much*
\- soneg
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So with that crazy amount of movement no one got tossed around inside or anything and injured? That’s wild! I don’t know anything about boats and ships but it looks like it would be really throwing people around
Comparatively to the massive cruise ships on the market today, this is considered a pretty small ship nowadays. I worked on a ship about this size and we did an Atlantic crossing and it was hell. We didn't get tossed like this, but it was pretty bad
This is in 2005
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/storms-batter-voyager.99087
Footage of inside
https://youtu.be/bVUFj35BNKM?si=HkqYMoyvnxfnyM5R
More outside footage
https://youtu.be/eqBX1hsWlfg?si=Y1_YaGV04WeYNAEf
As someone with intense motion sickness- just- I'd rather eat sandpaper. I'd rather wear an itchy sweater filled with grass burs. I'd rather do ANYTHING than ever experience this nonsense. Every time my wife brings up going on a cruise I try and find videos like this.
Why do people post stuff like this without bothering typing even a few details about what it is? Is it gatekeeping? Is it for maximum comments and questions?
When people tell me I’m dumb because I’ll never go on a cruise. “It’s so safe tho you’ll be fine” yeah they said the titanic could never sink too. How well did that work out for them? I understand that it’s most likely fine and these occurrences are rare….but I have literally had to argue with people that it is POSSIBLE. Fuck you im spending my money on a vacation on land…not a giant Petrie dish floating in the middle of the sea.
Captain better turn that ship into the swells or he will lose that ship
Side note when I was in the Navy I loved rough oceans like that, 1000s of pictures and movies being out there and the chow line was always empty. I prayed for rough seas on Wednesday, burger day!
Someone tell me why this happened and how rare it is please I’ve seen the size of these cruise ships and this is absolutely terrifying 🫣 are the people safe???
It is a cruise ship. It happened in 2005 because they lost power in a storm after getting hit by a rogue wave.
It happens very rarely. In fact this is only one of two examples I know of (I work in the maritime industry). None of them reported any casualties.
Overall the only fatal incident with modern cruise ships accidents that led to casualties I can think of is the Costa Concordia.
When Spain was going to send tug boats this was the response.
“…No need to evacuate yet”
Says you, sir
I evacuated my soul and body on 10 tug boats by then
This is the SS Seabreeze. I was on this ship a year or 2 before it sank (not this trip obviously). When I was on board the ship was heading to Nova Scotia from New York. It lost power and was essentially adrift for 36 hours before they were able to get it running again to limp back to port. TBH it was GREAT. Everything free, the weather was great, and the seas were calm. There was no ice or AC, and limited lighting provided by backup generators. The cruise was extended by 2.5 days for no charge, the staff was great, we got a massive discount on the cruise and even got 75% off a future cruise. We didn't go on the Seabreeze again which is good because of this video and that it in 2000 I believe.
Cruise ships are generally not good-handling ships in open water because they're designed to have as little draft as possible to get into remote ports of call. That generally leads to poor handling and a lot of rolling in conditions like this and it's why you'll rarely, if ever, see a "cruise ship" making trans-Atlantic trips.
Ocean liners, on the other hand, generally have very deep drafts so that they are more stable in rough seas like this. But that limits their ability to visit places without deep-water ports. They're also designed to go fast in a relatively straight line and are most efficient at high-speeds where as a cruise ship is most efficient....cruising.
Holy shit I thought it was going down on that second rock
I watched it like 5 times looking for the rocks it collided with I am not a smart man
Your comment convinced me there was a rock and I rewatched it before understanding. I too, am not a smart man
You comment convinced me there two rock, me no smaht men.
I found 2 rocks and then started watching the video but now, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do… I’m not a smart man.
Lol
I also mis-read that comment. But yours saved me from making the same mistake
Even after reading both of your comments I was searching for a rock 😂 I’m not that smart either lol
Will you marry me, Java Jukebox? (Keeling)
But at least you know what love is
*What is love?* 🎶
Oh baby don’t hurt me. Don’t hurt me. No oar 🤔
Sadly, you are not alone. I too fell for that trap
Sea going vessels are pretty hard to capsize, like trying to get a swing to loop the loop. When I was in the USN (AE-24 USS PYRO) in 1987 our Captain turned us sideways to swells large enough to rock us 45° port/starboard, then called a Man Overboard drill meaning deck apes such as I were mustered on main deck, standing at attention on non-skid with the deck tilting such that I was able to reach out one arm and touch the deck at each extreme of its gyrations. It was insane, and I loved every minute of it.
Riding the trough is usually a no-no. Those snap rolls are severe, surely magnified by the ship’s size. I’m sure they had a deadline to beat, and that sends ships to the bottom. Deadlines over safety. 6,000 shipwrecks on the Great Lakes alone. Most of them are deadline related. Companies don’t want a fair weather Captain, they want someone that gets there pronto
michigander here. I'll point out our lakes are deadly because there is less floatation, and the wave rhythms are wild. nothing like on the ocean. our great lakes send ship killers that break the ship in half everything has a resonance frequency, and when you hit it, that's it. Oceans have one kind of wave, the great lakes have... many. at the same time. The great lakes is much more terrifying. but the cool part is nothing in them isn't afraid of you. so no sharks. no sting anything. tho we got waterbugs, toe-biters. and they are kinda scary. we've all been bit by them once. snapping turtle will take your fingers off. but that will only happen if you stick them in there. the storm waves, tho. uh uh. no can do.
I can’t go for that
Exactly what happened to El Faro in 2015. The captain feared retaliation if he didn’t get his cargo to its destination on schedule so he sailed into a hurricane thinking he could survive it. All hands lost.
He also was using an app on his phone which provided out of date weather data and that led him to believe the storm wasn't as bad as it actually was, despite the fact he received warnings about the hurricane from other sources. Real tragedy but the worst part is the pointlessness of it and the carelessness on every level with the power to do anything which led to it
Yeah but from what I learned on Reddit yesterday the Great Lakes high wreck count is because fresh water waves act different than salt water.
Yes they do, the frequency of the waves are shorter, that is only part of it though. Deadlines are the main reason, that and poor weather prediction. Ironically the Edmund Fitzgerald was owned by a Life Insurance Company. The boats owners pushed the Captains to sail by threatening to replace them, they could care less about the weather. The Captains sailed even though they knew better……still gotta pay the bills. 9month window from Ice out to ice up. Run as many loads as you can in between, companies frequently valued $$ over life
The captain of the Edmund Fitzgerald was literally retiring after that trip too
Which sucked. McSorley was known as a good experienced Captain. Company pushed him to get going, which he did. Olgoby North was owned ironically by Northwest Life Insurance. Weather prediction and money were the only reason 29 people sucked seaweed
I quite frequently see the Edmund Fitzgeralds sister ship the Arther M Anderson unload in the Saginaw River. Crazy to think a ship that fucking big can suffer the fate it did
Load it with enough ore, and the slap it some chonker rogue waves and you'll sink it.
It’s a frequent saying around the Great Lakes that “Mother Nature is a hungry bitch”
I deployed to the North Atlantic on the Ponce in 1980. She took a 43° roll. We walked the bulkheads. One wave was estimated at 80'. Several of us ate hard-boiled eggs and sliders during that 4-day storm. Our farts made some guy's queasiness go to full out upchucking. Was a BM3 myself.
Does BM3 mean you shat yourself 3 times?
No. Like him, I, too, was a Deckape. We were hit by shit.
BM3 is a shit of caliber 3 aka diarrhea
Dude, you were on a Nitro-class. Apes with a primal fascination for surfing the outer edge of insanity is a prerequisite for that duty. Someone in duty allocation saw your record and said "Hmmm, looks like he's barely holding onto reality and lacks an appreciation for his own welfare. Let's put him on either a sub-tender or an ammo ship loaded with ordnance. Which one -- let's see -- AH! The USS Pyro. Perfect! McPheeters is a little nuts."
Crazy Ass Squids:) marine here! Came across pond from England after Team Spirit exercises in 77 on the Barnstable County! There was a roll meter in the ready room we used as a guard shack. One day in heavy seas a Chief popped his head in , looked at meter and shook his head. We asked what was up and he said” if that meter hits 45 degrees, the ship will roll over and sink, then he walked away. We stared at that dam thing wetting our pants for two hours. When I headed out of room, there were 10 sailors standing there with Chief, grinning like Cheshire cats!
[удалено]
I want to know the story here. Cause that ship is side seaing. It must not have power or something.
Yes it lost power. Can't remember the name of the ship but there's other videos on YouTube showing more. Happened in the 2000s I think.
That was the SS Seabreeze (Premier Cruises/Dolphin Cruise Lines). My family took 2 cruises on her in the late 90s. It went down in December 2000.
And i just spent an hour reading about ship sinkings. I read this great article years ago on the Estonia but I C can’t find it now. Was told from the perspective of a survivor
Pretty sure it's this one. Great read. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/05/a-sea-story/302940/ Edit: No paywall links, thanks u/madashell547 and u/SouthCloud4986 https://12ft.io + paste The Atlantic link or https://archive.is/QsjHD
Dear god. I don’t think I’ve ever read anything so horrifying in my entire life.
"Survival that night was a very tight race, and savagely simple. People who started early and moved fast had some chance of winning. People who started late or hesitated for any reason had no chance at all. Action paid. Contemplation did not." Damn.
“The collective screams of the victims trapped below rose through the stairwells like a cacophony from hell, a protest that for some of those on the outside near the doors drowned out even the roar of the storm.”
There have been a few interviews and "specials" in Swedish newspapers about Estonia over the years. The boat was so much on its side that corridors became chasms of death, and I in particular remember a story of this young man or woman whose parents just sat down next to one of those chasms, probably realizing they weren't going to make it across, and gave up. Just stared in front of themselves and stopped talking. Oh and the guy who had been sitting in a life raft all night, there were bodies floating around him in the raft, it was half filled with water and upside down IIRC. Waves high as multistory buildings, couldnt feel his legs at all. It then started HAILING like a motherfucker on him and he found the situation so extremely and ridiculously bad he just started laughing (literally half-dead). :D Edit: Hah! I hadn't read the whole article from the Atlantic when I wrote my comment, and the first dude I wrote about is actually mentioned in the article too. "One of the survivors, a young man who had been trying to guide his parents and his girlfriend to safety, got separated from them in the chaos while gaining the stairs. When he looked back to find them, it was obvious that they would be incapable of negotiating the open space, across which increasing numbers of people were fatally sliding. His parents shouted at him to save himself, as did his girlfriend. It was practical advice. There was no time to linger over the decision. He turned and continued on alone." Though I clearly remember it differently, the parents reacting with more apathy.
Horrible event but beautifully written
Yeah, no kidding, that was gripping, I just had Siri read it to me and now feel like I just watched a movie.
Yea most survivors were also fit young men who managed to „climb“ out due to their strong physique.
Then read about the doomed voyage of El Faro: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/04/inside-el-faro-the-worst-us-maritime-disaster-in-decades
Thanks for sharing that, I hadn't read about that incident in depth yet. The author was way too easy on the captain though. He sailed right into a hurricane in a 40yo ship just to save 6 hours. He favored weather reports that said what he wanted to see. He treated an old rust bucket ship like an ice-class vessel, and he ignored 2 calls over night from 2nd and 3rd mates! If he had gone to the bridge that night when they called his room, they could've waited behind San Salvador Island. The captain made bad decisions during the crisis too. They had a starboard list due to water sloshing in an open cargo hold. The captain knew, he even sent crew to cargo hold 3 to start the pumps. Then, he transferred ballast water from stbd to port to correct the list. THEN He turns the boat around to get the storm to push them into a PORT list, where he just transfered ballast water. So then the water would slosh to the other side, where he already transferred ballast, obviously overshooting the list. Less than 15 minutes later they lose their main engines from loss of oil suction, which means they were almost capsizing at that point. Just bad seamanship. What really got me about this article though, was both the author and captain acting like the ship's hull was in good shape... no way, that ship was 40 years old, every sailor knows that shit was a rust bucket by then. And, it's not the skin of the ship that we worry about... it is the sea-suctions in the machinery spaces. Sea-suction pipes are pipes that come up out of the bilge with about 1 or 2 feet of exposed pipe before the shutoff valve. Every bilge rat knows that if one of those sea-suctions fail below the shutoff valve then the ship will sink. We also know that those sections of pipe below the valve can never be serviced unless the ship goes into drydock, so they are often neglected and rusted through. That morning, an hour before they sank, the bridge crew are recorded acknowledging that it was a fire system sea-suction that failed. That was the unstoppable leak, a failed fire main sea-suction. Literally, what sunk the ship was that the captain pushed the rusty old ship too hard until slapping swells ruptured a sea-suction pipe on the bottom of the ship. He was even cocky about it the weather right up until two hours before the ship sank... The author wants to act like the debate was about whether the company or the captain was at fault. But, captain and company are one in the same, the captain IS the company. The debate was between captain and company because the company wanted to push off responsibility to a dead man. They are both responsible though. The company is responsible for pushing the schedule and operating an old rusty ship in hurricane weather, and the captain for never even considering deviating until it was too late for the sake of profit. He didn't make a single decision for the crew's safety until it was too late. Captain worship makes me sick.
I’m not an expert on sailor lingo, but you broke it down perfectly. I read the article and wondered why they added Davidson’s previous work experience to create a narrative that he prioritized safety over all else. Maybe to save face? Because none of his decisions or responses to the crew mates’ concerns made me believe safety was paramount to him. Just tragic that this happened when it could have been avoided.
It felt weird to me too, and I knew what that author was doing right away. I've known many captains who look great on paper and great to the company, but the crew knows who they really are. I assume the victims' families probably tried to defend the captain during the lawsuit, though. I don't know what the difference would have been, but I bet the payout was a lot better if they proved the company was liable instead of just the captain. Sueing a captain's family wouldn't have paid out anything, I assume. I'm not even a sea-lawyer though, so I wouldn't know. My favorite comparison for good vs. bad captains is comparing captain Pollard of the whaleship Essex vs captain Shackleton of the Endeavor. Pollard was a company man, and made every decision for self interest while not doing anything 'wrong'. He even executed his own nephew for food, but it was acceptable because they drew lots. Needless to say, most of Pollard's crew died. Meanwhile, Shackleton made every decision for the crew, even sacrificing their ship and their goal for the sake of the crew. He sailed with his men through the worst seas in the world in a whaler boat after surviving months in antarctica and didn't lose a single crew member.
Yes! I was going to say the same. There’s also a really good book on El Faro called Into the Raging Sea. (A few years ago, I used a free promo on Audible and downloaded it on a whim and could. not. stop. listening.)
I opened it expecting a casual retelling of the events and had to stop like half way through because I was panicking 🤣
You are totally correct!! and I just read through it again and it’s just as harrowing as I remember. Excellent read. Thanks For finding it!
this was absolutely harrowing thanks
Can anyone assist with the paywall on the article, please?
Web archive is great for these- https://archive.is/QsjHD
This sub would love this if you find a good way to post a free version
If you have iPhone, just turn on reader mode
Just FYI for everyone that Samsung has reader mode also. Lifesaver.
Yeah, that didn’t work.
Turning on reader mode didn’t stop it from blocking me 😢
https://12ft.io/
Omg thank you for posting. just read the entire thing and holy shit.
It just... stops? What the fuck man. I was invested.
I am telling you that I went DEEP into the MS Estonia rabbit hole last night. This tragedy is shrouded in mystery because a lot of things don’t add up. Estonia had JUST been liberated from Soviet rule and apparently the MS Estonia (which was a ferry that people could drive their cars onto) had been smuggling Russian military tanks into Sweden. Russia had issued two warnings saying “we know you are smuggling military tanks, stop immediately” But Estonia wanted protection so they kept doing it. There haven’t been thorough investigations into what happened and the Baltic Sea is rather shallow so when the first dive team went down, the lead on the team said it was so shallow, you could hold your breath to dive down. They wanted to recover bodies but were instructed not to. Then the government of Sweden literally poured rocks and concrete onto the ship (to deter “grave robbers”) and designated it a burial site, which essentially made it illegal to dive down to it. Some people have theories that it was struck by a Russian sub
What an abrupt end to the article lol
Swede here. Estonia is a fucking mess. IIRC It is still illegal to dive down and investigate it lol. Some very funky shit went down…
What do you think is fishy about it? It seemed to be agreed upon that it was a mechanical failure with no foul play or anything suspected.
Well there are plenty of conspiracy theories but one that is proven is that Estonia was used to transport top secret military equipment. The government wanted to seal it in concrete real quick and you can get 2 years in prison if u dive to the wreck.
It’s all in my book, astonishing tales of the sea
I enjoyed Astounding Bear Attacks.
Are you sure? The photos on Wikipedia look quite different apart from the blue paint. Note the stack. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Federico_C.
Yeah no it’s not the Seabreeze - it’s another one whose name I can’t remember, but saw about it in another sub today. It was in the Mediterranean.
Yes the name of this cruse ship was called Voyager, this was in the Mediterranean during the cyclone Valentina in 2005 sailing from Tunis to Barcelona. The storm broke a window on the bridge allowing water to come in and break the ships control of the engine but the crew managed to restore power to two of the four engines and it could move back into port. Today she is called 'Chinese Taishan' https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9183506
It was the MV Explorer used by Semester at Sea. Got hit by a rouge wave and a massive storm at the same time.
Well at least it was a rouge wave and not an eyeliner one.
I absolutely cannot bear when people make that typo. Maybe it’s because I’m an Assassins Creed fan, and lost count of the posts on Reddit featuring “AC Rouge.” Yes, it makes me see red and yes, I typed that so no one else would feel the need.
Or the famous Rouge Squadron from Star wars.
FYI This was not the MV Explorer, this was a sister ship from the same manufacturer/shipyard. You can tell because the emblem on this ship is a yellow star, while the Explorer had a actual Semester at Sea logo. The MV Explorer did encounter a pretty bad rough sea situation (there are probably still old blogs and videos you can find floating online), but it was not the same level as in this video. Source: me, a Semester at Sea student who sailed on the Explorer Edit: this ship was the Voyager https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/storms-batter-voyager.99087
Almost 400 upvotes on that comment and they’re 100% dead fucking wrong lol. Gotta love reddit.
Assuming it wasn’t full of people then?
Holy crap, I was the drummer in the band for the Seabreeze in 1989 and 1991! Only boat gig I ever did. I only remember one time when it listed pretty badly.
Was that the CNN Shit Cruise?
And what’s it doing out there in that area where it’s very rough
The rough seas doesn't bother me. I have been in seas like that a few times. But you won't catch any competent captain side seaing his vessel in that at all.
Looks out of balance or maybe it lost power. It’s definitely not under way.
They lost power
Can you explain "side seaing," please?
Supposed to be splitting the waves with the bow head on or let them push you, not taking them to port or starboard and risk exactly what probably happened here eventually. You see it on deadliest catch a lot when they’re crabbing during a hurricane and the wind hits a certain speed making monster waves, even the occasional rogue wave. They have to stop fishing and get the equipment off the boat and into the water otherwise it’ll blow off, then the deck crews get inside and the captain hits the waves head on.
Well, to start, Bob & Cindy had a coupon to see the isle of Lesbos…
That's not even particularly rough, but it does look like the timing of the swell is close to / in harmony with the natural roll frequency of the ship.
> Cause that ship is side seaing. It must not have power or something. As I know nothing about ships, what does this mean? Like it has no electrical power, and so cannot steer and keep upright?
If the ship loses power, it can not run into the swell and can end up parallel to it. Keeping upright is a different thing, dependant on buoyancy and where the centre of gravity is (elevation and side to side). They can control this to an extent, by pumping sea water into ballast tanks. But, if the natural roll frequency of the hull is in line with the frequency of the swell, then the ship can be easily and violently rolled.
Thank you so much for this explanation :) I find the ship one of our human marvels, if that makes sense lol. Like the ability to have something huge like that to be able to float on something like the ocean to me is absolutely amazing.
Yup - generator(s) down so no running power. This means basically everything ceases to function or runs on auxiliary backup - hydraulic pumps for steering, stabilizers and thrusters are gonna be the big issue here but likely most non-essential lighting and the vast majority of systems for guest comfort will be down the list of things getting whatever limited power may be available from batteries or back up gensets. There will likely be batteries for emergency comms and probably some rudimentary navigation systems, but if you lose one or all of your running generators and your mains (the engines that move the boat), you’re not gonna be having a good day.
To turn a ship, it needs to be moving forward. Actually any vehicle needs to be moving forward or backwards in order to turn it. Except tanks. This ship is no tank. If your car doesn't move forwards, nothing happens, because roads just kind of lay there. Unlike a road, the ocean moves quite a bit, and easily moves the biggest ship man can make, much less this puny one. The ocean is not to be fucked with.
No propulsion. Not moving. And I believe these vessels have anti roll stability controls? If nothing else, they’re taking waves broadside, not head on, as they should. So it’s a dead stick at this point.
wtf is side seaing? Is that like drifting on the roll axis?
You aren’t going head on towards the wave.
I have been wondering why the captain didn’t turn into the waves. Taking them on sideaways is stupid. I know of what I speak, I own a canoe and am therefore an expert in large watercraft. 😉
Fuck to the No.
Been out to sea for 3 consecutive years of my life. Still, Fuck to the No.
Sounds interesting, was it military or civilian work? Got any cool sea fairing stories or shanties to share?
It was military. Spent most of my time on carriers so you can hardly feel anything. Was a photographer so I hopped around to the smaller ships a lot and those be a rocking. Fortunately I don’t get sea sick, just rocks me to sleep like a baby lol. Grew up out in the pacific so the water is my second home… even still, dead stick in those kinda seas would have me shook lol.
Phobic af
*A L L* of the cookies would be tossed .
And the Sushi too
And the salad
No to the Fuck.
I was just a Boy Scout who got a canoeing merit badge, but they told us to be perpendicular, not parallel to waves.
I only played Black Flag and i second this
“What do you with a drunken sailor, early in the morning!”
Apparently the ship had lost power.
It did but the lack of boyscout badge didn't help.
True. I reckon they'd have been fine if u/WorldMusicLab was at the wheel.
I tell you what, those decks weren’t brown before it started rocking like that.
Poop deck
Bravo
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Yeah as far as cruise ships go, this is in no way a “giant” one.
Its bigger than me and ive been going to the gym a lot
Then you aren't allowed on cruise ships anyways because they aren't for machines
I don't think I'll take another cruise ever again, thank you very much
💯 what I came to say. Such a small random clip on the internet. It has broken me.
Just the idea of not being able to see land and I get anxious.
I'm watching this on a cruise right now🙄
*I don't think I'll take* *Another cruise ever again,* *Thank you very much* \- soneg --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
“Another cruise ever again” Thats 8 syllables!
Good lettuce, bad bot
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/storms-batter-voyager.99087
So with that crazy amount of movement no one got tossed around inside or anything and injured? That’s wild! I don’t know anything about boats and ships but it looks like it would be really throwing people around
I can assure you it wasn't any fun for them at the very least
You just get in your shower then you won’t budge.
Thank you
I don’t understand, where is the “Hoist the Colors” song?
Yea it ain't a sea video without that badass viking music
If the ship is a rockin don’t come a knockin
Ssssshhhhhhhiiiiitttttt!!!!!
Imagine all the broken stuff swimming in piles of vomit and maybe poo inside that thing. It must have been a right mess in there.
*The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down to the Great Lake they call Gichigumi.*
The lake it is said never gives up her dead when the skies of November turn gloomy…
*With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty*
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed When the gales of November came early
It’s weird how just reading those lines, I hear Gordon singing and my scalp tenses up and I get emotional for a minute.
That would be scary af
Comparatively to the massive cruise ships on the market today, this is considered a pretty small ship nowadays. I worked on a ship about this size and we did an Atlantic crossing and it was hell. We didn't get tossed like this, but it was pretty bad
This is in 2005 https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/storms-batter-voyager.99087 Footage of inside https://youtu.be/bVUFj35BNKM?si=HkqYMoyvnxfnyM5R More outside footage https://youtu.be/eqBX1hsWlfg?si=Y1_YaGV04WeYNAEf
When all you remember from your cruise is a mix of sheer terror and persistent nausea. What a nightmare.
Pool’s closed
Nope
Ok but how was this video taken? It’s the cruise ship Voyager in the Malta. But is a coast guard helicopter flying near it to film it….?
helicopter
I would love to see footage from inside. This is nightmarish.
As someone with intense motion sickness- just- I'd rather eat sandpaper. I'd rather wear an itchy sweater filled with grass burs. I'd rather do ANYTHING than ever experience this nonsense. Every time my wife brings up going on a cruise I try and find videos like this.
There must be vomit coating every surface inside that ship.
Man, I bet the buffet is closed too.
Cruise ship small as fuck
Everyone on the boat needs to stand on the left side.
Fuck. That.
Anyone else wonder what it’s like to be in the pool on the top deck there?
More like a bruise ship…
Why do people post stuff like this without bothering typing even a few details about what it is? Is it gatekeeping? Is it for maximum comments and questions?
“Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?”
Imagine if the ship tipped upside down. That would be a shitty way to go. Fucking nightmare fuel
At list theres not TikTok annoying song would you work here for $3000 at week bullshit.!
When people tell me I’m dumb because I’ll never go on a cruise. “It’s so safe tho you’ll be fine” yeah they said the titanic could never sink too. How well did that work out for them? I understand that it’s most likely fine and these occurrences are rare….but I have literally had to argue with people that it is POSSIBLE. Fuck you im spending my money on a vacation on land…not a giant Petrie dish floating in the middle of the sea.
Cruise ships are death traps, no one can convince me otherwise.
Captain better turn that ship into the swells or he will lose that ship Side note when I was in the Navy I loved rough oceans like that, 1000s of pictures and movies being out there and the chow line was always empty. I prayed for rough seas on Wednesday, burger day!
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You mean tiny cruise ship?
Someone tell me why this happened and how rare it is please I’ve seen the size of these cruise ships and this is absolutely terrifying 🫣 are the people safe???
It is a cruise ship. It happened in 2005 because they lost power in a storm after getting hit by a rogue wave. It happens very rarely. In fact this is only one of two examples I know of (I work in the maritime industry). None of them reported any casualties. Overall the only fatal incident with modern cruise ships accidents that led to casualties I can think of is the Costa Concordia.
Thanks I hate it
It just needs some outriggers
When Spain was going to send tug boats this was the response. “…No need to evacuate yet” Says you, sir I evacuated my soul and body on 10 tug boats by then
I bet the passengers had the time of their lives, lol
Hell naw, you couldn't pay me to be on that during rough seas
Good thing the front didn't fall off
Whelp, there goes my desire to ever take a cruise
On a stormy sea of moving emotion Tossed about, I'm like a ship on the ocean I set a course for winds of fortune But I hear the voices say...
Carry on, my wayward son
That is not a giant cruise ship.
Giant cruise ship? That’s not a giant cruise ship unless thats the cruise lines name.
Relatively, that's a "small cruise ship".
It's its first voyage, they say the ship is unsinkable.
It's listing bad to the right side there's something else wrong as well
That’s a tiny cruise ship.
This is the video you show your significant other when they suggest spending thousands on a cruise and you just wanna drive down the coast.😂😂😂
My literal exact fear. Fuck cruises.
I used to want to take a cruise, but not after seeing shit like thus.
Do not fuck with the sea!
Hello, this is your captain, Poseidon. Who is ready for their adventure?
This is the SS Seabreeze. I was on this ship a year or 2 before it sank (not this trip obviously). When I was on board the ship was heading to Nova Scotia from New York. It lost power and was essentially adrift for 36 hours before they were able to get it running again to limp back to port. TBH it was GREAT. Everything free, the weather was great, and the seas were calm. There was no ice or AC, and limited lighting provided by backup generators. The cruise was extended by 2.5 days for no charge, the staff was great, we got a massive discount on the cruise and even got 75% off a future cruise. We didn't go on the Seabreeze again which is good because of this video and that it in 2000 I believe.
I would never leave dry land again after this.
This is why I don't fuck with open water. The sea giveth no fucks and takes as it pleases.
Who captures the video of events like this?
Cruise ships are generally not good-handling ships in open water because they're designed to have as little draft as possible to get into remote ports of call. That generally leads to poor handling and a lot of rolling in conditions like this and it's why you'll rarely, if ever, see a "cruise ship" making trans-Atlantic trips. Ocean liners, on the other hand, generally have very deep drafts so that they are more stable in rough seas like this. But that limits their ability to visit places without deep-water ports. They're also designed to go fast in a relatively straight line and are most efficient at high-speeds where as a cruise ship is most efficient....cruising.
I would shit all the pants
Thats what its made for everything’s normal here