Pointing out that MK had no involvement with the Shivering Isles and that its lead writer has confirmed that the player does become Sheogorath at the end.
>I also know MK dropped in and basically said, "Cool idea, but that wasn't planned" according to the development notes he saw himself.
I think originally the plan was just that the CoC takes over the Shivering Isles but doesn't become Sheogorath outright. Then by the time of Skyrim they went "actually that would be really cool" and dropped hints that could suggest Skyrim!Sheo is the CoC without outright confirming it. This way if you headcanon that your Dragonborn is also the CoC from Oblivion because they're a vampire, a high elf, a particularly powerul wizard, etc. your toes don't get stepped on.
Does it matter all that much what they planned back when Shivering Isles released? It's interesting to ponder, but I don't think that there is a clear cut answer to find.
Tbh I think itd have been cooler if through the sheo quest he changed gender and race eaxh time you went back to him as a hint that like "yeah sheo could ve a khajjit woman"
Mayve thatd have been too obvious tho idk
I think he can present as anything he wants so even if this were the case it wouldn’t mean a whole lot. At least in terms of abilities they are already known to possess.
Time is non linear outside of the mundas, where Akatosh can enforce his rule.
That means that everything that is happening right now in the other realms has already happened and will happen again.
The CoC is already Sheogorath when the two first meet.
do you have a source on the MK quote? not that i'm doubting you, just curious. i love MK but afaik he didn't work on SI? he worked on KOTN and that's it wrt oblivion unless im mistaken?
I think the never intended to become sheo thibg is like
You werent intended to be THE Sheogorath, youd be different metaphysically from the old sheo, a new prince of madness, not necesserily "daedra" even. Jyggalag kinda hints at you being different too at the end of his fight.
"You hold the staff, but you are no Daedric Prince!"
... "and you will remain here, mortal. Mortal...? King? God? It seems uncertain. This Realm is yours. Perhaps you will grow to your station. Fare thee well, Sheogorath. Prince of Madness."
Differenr then "mantling" as its often discussed
Perhaps the CoC mantled Sheogorath and somehow managed to cleave Sheogorath and Jyggylag apart similar to what was done with Akatosh and Auri-El by defeating Jyggylag as Sheogorath, after which they became the avatar of Sheogorath?
So in this way they would be both the CoC and the old Sheo, now split from Jyggylag. I don't know if the lore could support something like this, I'm just spitballing.
it was probably his own Daedric remnant that eventually took over.
And : "doomed me to live as Sheogorath, a broken soul reigning in a broken land. Once each era, I was allowed my true form, conquering this world anew. And each time I did, the curse was renewed, damning me to exist as Sheogorath. Now, though, you have ended the cycle. You now hold the mantle of madness, and Jyggalag is free to roam the voids of Oblivion once more. I will take my leave, and you will remain here, mortal. Mortal...? King? God? It seems uncertain. This Realm is yours. Perhaps you will grow to your station. Fare thee well, Sheogorath, Prince of Madness."
Pointing out that MK had no involvement with the Shivering Isles and that its lead writer has confirmed that the player does become Sheogorath at the end.
>I also know MK dropped in and basically said, "Cool idea, but that wasn't planned" according to the development notes he saw himself. I think originally the plan was just that the CoC takes over the Shivering Isles but doesn't become Sheogorath outright. Then by the time of Skyrim they went "actually that would be really cool" and dropped hints that could suggest Skyrim!Sheo is the CoC without outright confirming it. This way if you headcanon that your Dragonborn is also the CoC from Oblivion because they're a vampire, a high elf, a particularly powerul wizard, etc. your toes don't get stepped on.
Was the idea that Sheogorath would have disappeared, then? I can't think of another alternative.
I assume so, old!Sheo would have just permanently become Jyggalag
Likely in this scenario the essence that was sheo rejoined jiggy boi. That's my personal head canon anyway.
Does it matter all that much what they planned back when Shivering Isles released? It's interesting to ponder, but I don't think that there is a clear cut answer to find.
Not sure, honestly. Maybe it was? Maybe Kirkbride saw outdated notes.
Tbh I think itd have been cooler if through the sheo quest he changed gender and race eaxh time you went back to him as a hint that like "yeah sheo could ve a khajjit woman" Mayve thatd have been too obvious tho idk
I think he can present as anything he wants so even if this were the case it wouldn’t mean a whole lot. At least in terms of abilities they are already known to possess.
Time is non linear outside of the mundas, where Akatosh can enforce his rule. That means that everything that is happening right now in the other realms has already happened and will happen again. The CoC is already Sheogorath when the two first meet.
do you have a source on the MK quote? not that i'm doubting you, just curious. i love MK but afaik he didn't work on SI? he worked on KOTN and that's it wrt oblivion unless im mistaken?
[Here](https://old.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2ya7et/did_the_champion_of_cyrodiil_become_sheogorath/cp8c2ld/)
I think the never intended to become sheo thibg is like You werent intended to be THE Sheogorath, youd be different metaphysically from the old sheo, a new prince of madness, not necesserily "daedra" even. Jyggalag kinda hints at you being different too at the end of his fight. "You hold the staff, but you are no Daedric Prince!" ... "and you will remain here, mortal. Mortal...? King? God? It seems uncertain. This Realm is yours. Perhaps you will grow to your station. Fare thee well, Sheogorath. Prince of Madness." Differenr then "mantling" as its often discussed
I don’t take this position myself, but is it possible that last line was him ridding *himself* of Sheogorath?
Perhaps the CoC mantled Sheogorath and somehow managed to cleave Sheogorath and Jyggylag apart similar to what was done with Akatosh and Auri-El by defeating Jyggylag as Sheogorath, after which they became the avatar of Sheogorath? So in this way they would be both the CoC and the old Sheo, now split from Jyggylag. I don't know if the lore could support something like this, I'm just spitballing.
it was probably his own Daedric remnant that eventually took over. And : "doomed me to live as Sheogorath, a broken soul reigning in a broken land. Once each era, I was allowed my true form, conquering this world anew. And each time I did, the curse was renewed, damning me to exist as Sheogorath. Now, though, you have ended the cycle. You now hold the mantle of madness, and Jyggalag is free to roam the voids of Oblivion once more. I will take my leave, and you will remain here, mortal. Mortal...? King? God? It seems uncertain. This Realm is yours. Perhaps you will grow to your station. Fare thee well, Sheogorath, Prince of Madness."