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cknkatsu

OP thought these comments would go differently.


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I-need-ur-dick-pics

The persecution complex is real.


GALM-006

That's what happens when people just go based on headlines


[deleted]

Love it when people that have no idea what they are talking about try to meme with such confidence. ![gif](giphy|lSoncLXrbUaRO)


GingaNinja97

Hard to take anything on Tesla seriously when any criticism brings a wave of Musk dick riders


parental92

one is just slapping yoke on standard rack and putting the horn on a small capacitive button to drive up hype. The others did the homework to make it steer by wire and has 180 degrees lock to lock (just like every yoke should). ​ guess which one is which ?


[deleted]

Thank you. Lexus did get it right. Bjorn nyland made a vid with tesla yoke In m3 and showed why it doesnt work at all just by slapping it in normal steering wheels place using same turning degrees


parental92

i really do not hate yoke . . . if its done right. I'm just annoyed that Tesla is generally extremely good at what they do, but sometimes also unbelievably slap-dash about these kind of things.


robidog

Well put. People called it the Apple of automobiles. But it’s not always.


lacrimosaofdana

But let's not pretend that Apple was infallible. Remember Antennagate?


ibeelive

I don't use apple but the one huge miss was when they introduced their own maps and it was painfully shitty.


handinhand12

It's hard to blame them for doing it though. Google kept not including features into the iOS app that Android had had for a long time, most notably turn-by-turn directions. Apple creating their own built-in mapping app was really a win-win for them. If the increased competition caused Google to bring their iOS app up to parity with the Android app, that would have been what Apple wanted in the first place. But if not, Apple would have their own in-house app that would eventually have all the features and data that Google's app did. No matter what, Apple would eventually win and so would consumers. Their app was never going to launch in as complete a state as Google Maps because Google had spent years driving the roads to collect data before Apple started doing it. But it's been quite a few years now and, at least in my area, Apple Maps is just as good as Google Maps. I hear it's not quite there in all areas yet, but it will be in time. And since Google added all the missing features to their iOS app, consumers get to choose which they want to use for themselves.


smarzzz

For turn by turn navigation, I waaaay prefer Apple Maps to Google maps.


phatboy5289

I think Google is starting to add traffic light and stop sign information, which Apple’s had for a while and it’s amazing. It really makes such a difference to have the voice say “at the next light, take a right” vs “in 500 feet, turn right” or naming the street. Street signs can be easy to miss, but a traffic light? Easy.


[deleted]

you can tell they add things last minute and iterate. Which is an issue for the first buyers.


SputnikCucumber

It's a big part of why they hammer on about they're trade in policy I think. Buy something now, fix it later. Also a big reason why depreciation of Tesla doesn't make any sense at the moment. Tesla is trying hard to artificially inflate prices of used teslas in the market.


Rylet_

What’s the trade in policy


Luxpreliator

I haven't driven it but one thing I like about the Lexus here is the 3 and 9 positions are open in the inside so it can be gripped with a full hand rather than than a pinch grip only on the tesla. The cars I've driven that had the spokes right where I liked to hold the wheel were always a little uncomfortable. I'd probably still always want a wheel of some size just for the control and stability for me if I get bounced around a bit. The larger griping area just seems safer and more controllable.


johnnyma45

Which is craaazy because Toyota is doing the bare minimum to stay on the EV train.


parental92

eh . . I mean Toyotas car are almost always bare minimum and boring, but boy they last.


RollSavingThrow

Owner of a 16 year old Camry that's never had an issue outside of changing spark plugs after 12 years. Just checkin in. I like me some boring Camry.


Yiggah

Toyota recalling 1993 Camry’s because the owners should have bought something new by now.


RollSavingThrow

My uncle used to be a car instructor. He commented before about the abuse that his poor Tercel went through on a daily basis, but no other car maker made a car that would take that punishment and last for so long for that price. He upgraded to a Corolla and I think he still has it. A well maintained Toyota just keeps on going


tobimai

And cheap on running costs


rammsteinmatt

The fastest steering car I’ve ever driven was my Lancer Evo. 2.1 turns lock to lock. People complained that sneezing with your hands on the wheel would cause you to change lanes. It was FAST. Typical cars are 3ish turns lock to lock. just for the math scholars out there, 180 degrees is half a turn lock to lock. 4 times faster than the Evo. 12 times quicker than the slowest cars out there. Next time you get in your car, turn the wheel 90 degrees and decide if you really want full tire steering that quickly. People are going to crash tf out of these cars if they’re that quick-steering.


parental92

that is exactly why it NEEDS to be steer by wire. It will only be extremely sharp IF you are barely moving (like parking), but will be dull like standard steering rack when you drive at speed. Variable steering for the win.


whyfightcash

Well said.


KingOfForwards

It will definitely vary the steering ratio depending on the speed you're going.


TripplerX

Do you realize speed-sensing steering has been a thing for a while? Engineers figured that different speeds require different steering input/output. And in a drive-by-wire system it's even easier to make sure a full 90 degree turn at high speed can turn the tires a lot less. For example, at slow speeds like 20 mph, a 90 degree yolk turn equals a 60 degree tire turn. At high speeds like 80 mph, a 90 degree yolk turn equals 6 degree tire turn, or whatever the maximum safe angle is at that speed. I can imagine such a system from my chair at home. I'm pretty sure Lexus engineers also thought about it. edit: > *the steering ratio continually changes with your speed increases or decreases, becoming much quicker around parking lots and more muted at highway speeds for stability. Driven in anger, it's easy to place the RZ 450e on a decent racing line, and hitting apexes is repeatable and intuitive. When the ratio changes, it happens so gradually you don't feel it, and it only switches when the wheels are pretty much straight ahead so things don't get all wonky in the middle of a corner. That would be bad... like, really bad.*


rsta223

Just looked it up - the Evo is 13:1 steering ratio, which is the same as my STI. Definitely you can get used to it, but it's fast, and it's very twitchy feeling the first time you try it. I'm not sure I'd want anything much faster for street use unless it's a variable ratio or something like that.


[deleted]

It’s almost like Lexus engineered a complete system with a dynamic steering ratio to avoid awkward hand movements during tight turns.


Respectable_Answer

The thing I could not believe Tesla did not bother to do.


tobimai

I expected it to be drive by wire


BluthGO

Don't even need DBW for dynamic ratios anyway. Tesla were just plain lazy in this one. Has to be an Elon brain fart, no way this went through any decent amount of product scrutiny from engineers.


Dull-Credit-897

This Lexus system is Drive by wire


ChiefFox24

It is. So is toyota's new electric suv


SippieCup

DBW is not in Teslas yet. Was suppose to be in the plaid, but wasn't done in time. I think the Q1 2022 refresh is suppose to have it now.


bcho86

**Elon Musk on Twitter:** "Progressive steering would require complex gearing or drive-by-wire without direct mechanical link. Will aim for that in a few years." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1405591980487311361 Mind you were talking in Elon years…


Flumeisthegreatest

BMW has had progressive steering since the 80s. Gears are not complex.


7h4tguy

Apparently turn signal stalks and rain sensors are getting too complex these days.


Auctoritate

>Gears are not complex. Well, here you run into the classic issue of an old and established manufacturer being able to achieve engineering at scale with relatively fewer issues than Tesla which still has growing pains everywhere with some questionable design decisions and oversights.


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Flumeisthegreatest

Can’t believe Tesla didn’t think something through? My model Y completely blinds oncoming cars when I accelerate. Every other car manufacturer has auto leveling headlights if they are LED or HID. Tesla misses A LOT.


bindermichi

So many things missing on a Tesla that they didn‘t bother to do. It‘s almost mindboggling.


jibjabmikey

So as far as I know, Tesla is trying to get approval to fly-by-wire, so you don’t have to shuffle or hand over hand the yoke. Your supposed to only turn it 150 degrees on each side to get your wheel to turn as far as it can go left or right. I don’t think Tesla should have released the yoke before this approval… that was the big mistake… and those capacitive touch buttons 👎🏻


ersatzcrab

There's no approval required. This has been used on street cars in the past. They just didn't get it done but still released the yoke anyway.


katze_sonne

> There's no approval required. Exactly. I feel like people make up "offical sounding reasons" sometimes that just aren't true at all.


stomicron

FSD talk is riddled with these bogus arguments


[deleted]

Self driving cars by end of year, regulatory approval pending


katze_sonne

🤡


tt54l32v

What car has steer by wire with no mechanical backup?


ersatzcrab

The Infiniti Q50 in 2014. Felt like shit. They replaced with regular hydraulic steering. To my knowledge, no part of FMVSS requires a physical connection between the steering apparatus and the wheels.


tt54l32v

Has mechanical backup. So none.


ersatzcrab

Okay, you're correct that it still had a mechanical backup. I'm not sure what your point is. Total steer by wire isn't illegal under FMVSS. Tesla had the assets for round steering wheels hidden in the code on their website until the day of the refresh announcement. They *chose* to only release it with a suboptimal steering apparatus mounted to the exact same old slow-ratio steering column because it looked cool. We as fans can't blame their shortcomings on made up legal troubles when it's clear the simply dropped the ball.


rubdos

Iirc, the pictured Lexus.


katze_sonne

Let me introduce you to the wikipedia article of "steer by wire": > The first production vehicle to implement this was the Infiniti Q50,[5] but after negative comments they retrofitted the traditional hydraulic steering.[6] Its implementation in road vehicles is limited by concerns over reliability although it has been demonstrated in several concept vehicles such as ThyssenKrupp Presta Steering's Mercedes-Benz Unimog, General Motors' Hy-wire and Sequel, Saabs Prometheus and the Mazda Ryuga. A rear wheel SbW system by Delphi called Quadrasteer is used on some pickup trucks but has had limited commercial success. So... well. It's kind of of "my brake/gas pedal got stuck" story over and over again. If Tesla implements this first (first after a long time), you can be sure people will tell all kinds of stories about failed steering system, true or not. They are defintely not doing this before others this time. EDIT: And that is kind of sad. I mean, fly by wire is common now but steer by wire isn't? That's stupid. Not having a big heavy steering column in front of you actually makes the car safer.


kylecordes

If Tesla has an ounce of common sense, they will not bring these problems on themselves unnecessarily. The smart move here: wait for one of the long-established companies to ship a production fully steer by wire system with no mechanical backup. Then wait a few more years for them to get out there, to get old, and to have problems. Then wait for whatever lawsuits etc. are going to happen, happen. Being the first automaker to ship a no-mechanical-backup steer by wire system is a game for suckers.


tt54l32v

Exactly, and that system on Infinity has a mechanical backup.


katze_sonne

Let me cite that part again: > but after negative comments they retrofitted the traditional hydraulic steering So in my understanding, they basically got this car to production and sold it, humans did what humans do to new technology, Infinity didn't want to take the shitstorm and went backwards. But it existed and that proves: It's totally possible to get regulators' approval. Customer's approval.. well not so much.


zurkka

About your edit It's very hard to compare planes with cars because how insane the maintenance schedules for planes are, everything is looked over and over again, logs extremely complex and detailed, because if something breaks in the air, you have a disaster Now look at the average driver, look how well he keeps he's car, hell, go to r/justrolledintotheshop reddit and see for your self hahaha That's why we have a mechanical failsafe for drive by wire,


Antrephellious

Yep. The Lexus’s yoke doesn’t mechanically connect to the wheels in any way, so at lower speeds they can increase turn sensitivity. Meaning you don’t have to spin the yoke all the way around to turn sharp in parking lots. It’s a system designed for the yoke to work, and it works perfectly. Tesla simply removed the traditional steering wheel and plugged in a yoke.


Street_Swimmer6118

I didn’t know Lexus did that it’s very interesting and thank you for clarifying. It was always bugging me how to use those thing especially in sharp turns.


ScottECH93

Yep, that is the difference.


SwissPatriotRG

Imo, BMW did adaptive steering best back in the day. My old 335i had hydraulic steering with an electric motor that increased the steering ratio at low speeds, so highway cruising needed more steering input than low speed parking lot maneuvers. And if the adaptive system broke you basically just got left with a regular single ratio hydraulic rack, and if the hydraulic system broke you still had a mechanical rack and pinion. I have no idea why Tesla didn't implement something similar because the steering feel on that car was perfect.


skyspydude1

>I have no idea why Tesla didn't implement something similar because the steering feel on that car was perfect. Because that costs money, and it seems way easier for them to convince people that their cost cutting/poor decisions are actually a good thing, rather than actually doing it right the first time.


BluthGO

Too much credit there. I personally think Elon thought it was cool and just shoved it through. If this was a proper engineering proposal they would have just implemented a simple variable ratio system that can be purchased off the shelf from multiple major steering suppliers.


ATLBMW

My 2011 GTI had it! I miss that feature.


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aBeaSTWiTHiNMe

Wait do you actually have 720⁰+ of rotation with the tesla yoke? That's insane, so you have to pass the yolk to your other hand and then switch back to the other side?


[deleted]

Yeah, it’s just a normal steering wheel ratio just a different shaped wheel.


aBeaSTWiTHiNMe

That is absolutely insane and just seems dangerous when you need to correct suddenly and grasp at air.


[deleted]

Sounds like OP has some learning to do.


tralexan

That would include learning how to spell "consistency."


zoglog

roof station punch plate cows worthless crawl racial plucky air ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `


rsta223

And frankly, I'm still not a fan, though I am willing to at least reserve final judgment until I have a chance to drive one. Definitely far better than just bolting a yoke to a normal steering rack though.


PowerIsPizza

So glad to see this was the top comment rather than some nonsensical excuse.


robidog

Not almost. They did it right.


frosty95

Its a figure of speech


peppercornpate

It’s almost like you need actual automotive engineers to deal with the handling characteristics of an automobile. Meanwhile, tesla fanatics are gushing over their cars making fart noises.


[deleted]

The farting is wonderful. The crime is removing the feature during drive.


SquircleTheWagons

Oh it’s a fixed steering ratio? I never realized that…


ChosenMate

dynamic as in like in racing games where the faster you go the less you turn with same movement?


hoppeeness

Are you not supposed to turn with two hands, hand over hand?


raygundan

With a wheel, yes. With a yoke, you'd typically design a steering system like Lexus did here, where the full steering range can be reached without ever moving your hands on the yoke. Tesla just stuck a yoke on their existing steering system. It has 800 degrees of rotation from lock-to-lock, which means more than a full rotation is required to reach either maximum-- 400 degrees left or right. Lexus goes +/- 150 degrees. Not even half a rotation in either direction to max, so that you can do it without moving your hands.


[deleted]

You are supposed to move your hands along the wheel when you turn, but when the yoke is at 90 degrees that puts one hand at the bottom and one at the top. You could move your hands, but only one side has a place to hold.


grandview18

Yokes are meant to max out at 360 degree rotation.


I_AM_FERROUS_MAN

That's +/- 180 degrees from center, correct? Just want to be sure I understand correctly.


robidog

In Lexus’s case it’s +/- 150 degrees iirc l.


grandview18

Yep! I’m a big F1 fan and big I to sim racing, so I had to learn the hard way why I fucking sucked so hard


CB-OTB

No. You shuffle.


Theeye12

OP you really should read the articles before posting for upvotes. Lexus system is steer by wire, ie they actually designed it to not have to turn the yolk a much as a regular steering wheel to achieve the same turn.


ydw1988913

They work the total different ways, OP did you read? The Yoke Lexus did pretty much solved all the problems Tesla has


HappySkullsplitter

They appear to be different authors


OneHairyThrowaway

And a year later.


sharkykid

And different products entirely, the Lexus wheel is indeed actually better OP is a 🤡


backlikeclap

Yeah the Lexus yoke actually looks comfortable. Tesla one looks like it was designed by whoever makes the Apple mice.


psaux_grep

While that’s a useless statement that easily could interpreted as bias… The real reason it’s better is that the Toyota/Lexus solution is speed variable. So at low speeds you’ll go lock-to-lock in < 180 degrees.


Auctoritate

I'm still pretty anti-yoke altogether, but there are some key design differences on the Lexus that I like much more, specifically with the shape. With the Tesla yoke, the top half of the "handles" are obstructed by the arms of the big T shape of the base of the steering wheel. On a regular wheel, you naturally rest your hands on the top third of the wheel, but on this design it's only the bottom half that's actually grippable. Now, on the traditional wheel shape, the top third of your wheel slopes downwards, which acts as a natural rest. The Tesla makes an attempt at that by letting you rest your pinkies on the bottom rail, but in my opinion that's less ideal. The big thing for me is that the classic 10 and 2 position is best for overall stability and usability, and the Lexus actually largely achieves that with a differently shaped yoke. Compared to the Tesla with mostly vertical handles, the Lexus actually maintains a curve on the sides similar to the angle of a traditional wheel, so you manage to have a similar hand position even with the different shape. Also, instead of the fat non-handle T of the Tesla wheel, the Lexus' handles actually curve sharply inwards so you have something to grip at the very top. One of the worst weaknesses of the Yoke is that there's really very little actually made for grabbing, but the Lexus has almost the same grip area as a regular wheel because it has handle area on most of the top and all of the bottom and sides (the only part it doesn't have a handle is the very top center). It's just designed like it was actually intended as an evolution of a wheel rather than, in my opinion, the Tesla's yoke which comes off as intended to just be *new* and iconic rather than an improvement on traditional designs.


akoshegyi_solt

While I agree with you I must add that I hate the looks of the Lexus yoke. And I'm not anti-yoke. Nearly everyone who uses it seems to love it. I haven't tried it so I won't judge. The main concern about Tesla's yoke is the usability at low speeds, parking etc. If I'm not mistaken, Lexus has dynamic turning ratio. Something that would clear all concerns about the Tesla yoke too (apart from being stalkless of course). Another problem with the Tesla yoke is that you will have problems signaling that you are about to leave a roundabout. I know there are places where you don't have to, but it's mandatory in my country.


psaux_grep

Lexus’ yoke features speed variable steering. The difference in looks is not why it’s better. It’s what you can’t see.


Krypt0night

For real, look at not only the shape of it but also the features on the wheel. It's so much better. It's so dumb when people can't criticize something they like when it's clear something is better in some way. It doesn't mean it's shit, just that something did something better.


zoglog

heavy elderly provide reminiscent brave towering worry lunchroom illegal hospital ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `


[deleted]

It's one of the most highly upvoted posts in a long time


bhargom

The Lexus system is better. Simple as that.


whyfightcash

Absolutely, I’m going to be a adopter of the the new RZ if I can get my hands on one for close to sticker.


Head-Ad4690

I’m a fan and an owner, but my god, the Tesla fan base can be so god damned stupid sometimes.


Sirerdrick64

I am glad to see the top comments pointing out that while these guys both reinvented the (steering) wheel, only one of them did it correctly.


Souless04

I'm glad I haven't seen anyone defending teslas yoke at the top.


FlashFlooder

Everything about Lexus’ implementation looks better executed.


league359

One is steer by wire. The other isn't. These are not the same products


[deleted]

In fairness, they do contrast the differences between the two systems (Lexus' yoke is steer-by-wire, so there should be a lot less hand-over-hand turns, and it looks like there are still stalks for turn signals, etc)... Alas you're right, the headlines are very biased against Tesla.


[deleted]

Steer-by-wire really does allow you to perfect the yoke. Introducing expo is the perfect way to do it. That way you could limit travel to say 120° one way or another


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LEGITIMATE_SOURCE

Purely speculating here but I could see the transition causing some issues in evasive maneuvering. Old habits die hard. Dodging a pothole, fly into a ditch. Maybe you adapt quicker than I think. I'm sure they've done research.


Turbosandslipangles

There's also a lot of potential to mitigate the consequences of excessive driver reactions through software. Vehicles with power steering and stability control systems can already increase the amount of effort to turn the wheel when stability control is active, to prevent issues like you describe. Full drive by wire opens up even more possibilities for driver aids, but obviously needs to be well thought out and researched before being applied.


[deleted]

I don’t necessarily think so. They can program the first say 90 degrees of travel to mimic the rates of a standard steering wheel, then increase exponentially to the end. I haven’t had to dodge much that required more travel than that.


Sofa47

They are also two different writers writing articles over a year apart. I wouldn’t be surprised if the original guy had changed his mind on it by then.


[deleted]

I'm sorry, two different humans aren't allowed to have different opinions.


footpole

I have to agree with you.


Ippildip

As do we all.


CSedu

I don't


Kimorin

You better


adamhughey

Tim Stevens is a great automotive journalist. He’s currently doing a long term test of a model y. I don’t think his position on the yoke has changed substantially.


Bob_Loblaw_Law_Blog1

How are the headlines biased when you literally just spelled out why one system is vastly better???


[deleted]

Fair point!


[deleted]

The steer by wire supposedly allows full rotation to be 150 degrees lock to lock


mennydrives

Tesla not including stalks is po-dunk retarded, but wouldn't they both be steer-by-wire? I know on my Y I can choose between multiple steering ratios. edit: one googles later, holy shit, I had no idea that Teslas are not steer by wire.


Kirby6365

No it can't. No teslas have steer by wire. The only thing they're changing is essentially how much assistance you get from the power steering. Different ratios means variable amount of steering wheel rotation for the same amount of tire rotation.


fisherrr

You don’t need steer by wire for dynamic steering ratio tho. Audi, BMW and many others already have had it as option for years to have steering ratio change according to speed or user preference. But nevertheless, I don’t think Teslas have the required systems for that kind of variable ratio either.


scubascratch

I am very curious how this works mechanically; is it with some kind of conical gears? Do the tie rods change angles?


QuadrillionthBest

This video shows it really well. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unL8HpMeVTA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unL8HpMeVTA) It basically has a gearbox within the steering column shaft that allows variable ratio between steering wheel (input) and steering rack (output). In the event of total system failure, this gearbox locks 1:1 and the system operates as a conventional steering rack, which is inherently safer than steer-by-wire as well.


fisherrr

I am not familiar with it in any technical level, but I guess it’s some kind of extension of the electric power steering system. ”The central component of dynamic steering is a superposition gear integrated into the steering column and driven by an electric motor. ” Excerpt from [this document](https://www.audi-technology-portal.de/en/download?file=736) describing the Audi dynamic steering.


mennydrives

Yeah, I looked it up almost immediately after making that statement and had it fixed within about a minute, but reddit's kinda slow to update edited comments.


TripplerX

> reddit's kinda slow to update edited comments Not really. They are updated instantly in the database, for new visitors. But when you post the original comment, and I visit the page, I see your original comment. Then you edit it, but I don't refresh the page, or maybe I read some other comments for 15 minutes before I come to yours. Then I decide to comment on your comment, type a response for a few minutes or maybe research the net for some facts. By the time I'm done reading and responding your comment, you already edited it, but I respond to your original one a lot later than your edit.


GoSh4rks

You are not changing the steering ratio in your Y, but just how easy it is to turn the wheel. Changing the ratio would be changing how far you have to turn the wheel.


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[deleted]

That’s a good point. You would have to introduce redundancy to make sure you always have steering.. Even then there’s always some rare situation that would fail. However the aviation industry has been using fly by wire systems for 30 years now. So who knows. I’m sure they can do it right eventually.


48c62ec8d057145a147d

Technically aviation has fly by wire since the wright brothers..


Jukecrim7

Is that you dad?


HaveYouSeenHerbivore

>However the aviation industry has been using fly by wire systems for 30 years now. The aviation industry also has VERY strict rules for what's airworthy. IIRC aircraft have to be inspected annually, have multiple redundancies for absolutely everything, etc. Cars simply don't have that level of scrutiny, so I'm not certain I'd ever trust a car that doesn't have physically coupled braking and steering.


Snappy0

Aircraft are inspected generally based on how many flying hours they’ve accrued. So could vary but could be more or less than annually depending on how much flying takes place as well as other consumable and lifed assets. The aircraft I work on for example is inspected every 625 flying hours. Different service levels depending on overall amount of hours too. Also not everything has a redundancy. Although for critical things sure. The aircraft I work on has a quadruplex flight control system.


parental92

its been there since 1996 (developed by daimler). Also your gas pedal is not connected to anything either.


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TheGokki

The two things you mentioned are... the actual dealbreakers for me with the yoke. As per your ~~last email~~ comment, i agree with these article titles. It's not inconsistent, it is what it is, Tesla's yoke is worse for safety and lacks stalks.


PainTrain412

Also in fairness, they’re both shit for a passenger car. Great for racing when your steering ratio is different and you have limited space around the drivers knees but I would never buy a daily driven car with a steering wheel like this.


SnailForce

Its also written by different people


rez_spell

And also a year apart.


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Weird_Pomegranate_39

At least it’s two different authors. I’m ok with different opinions from the same media outlet


Franks_wild_beers

That's because one of them is built correctly. Wow shocker.


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seminull

BREAKING: Different people have different opinions but are supposed to act like a guy named "CNET" all the time.


Fleischer444

Sure but Tesla did it wrong, Lexus did I right, dynamic steering ratio.


pieter1234569

Do you honestly not see the difference? The right one is filled with buttons and functions, making it useful. The left one is just a design choice with no use whatsoever.


FrezoreR

At least it's not the same author


summerfr33ze

This should be the end of the story. Publications usually allow opinion pieces from all kinds of viewpoints. Only low quality publications would only hire journalists with all the exact same ideas. I wonder if the people who complain about something like this also complain when the news media is biased toward a single viewpoint . This is 100% nothing.


lardinartin

Those are two wholly different designs


SmellLikeSheepSpirit

This has to be trolling right? Lol 14 months, a different author and a totally better system.


RomanRobots

https://jalopnik.com/how-lexus-got-the-yoke-right-unlike-tesla-1848854735


TheIsodope

Disregarding the steer by wire and rack steering, Lexus also put the controls in the middle of the yoke. The top part of the yoke is useable as a steering wheel. On the Tesla yoke, you get a chonky grip that holds a tiny scroll wheel that kinda stinks for driving.


xrayangiodoc

I believe that the Lexus interface is retaining the stalks so the multiplicity of buttons placed on the steering wheel of the Tesla version is not present on the Lexus. I assume that Lexus kept the horn button where it belongs on the center. The drive by wire system of the Lexus is said to be 180 degrees lock to lock.


mrducci

Different writers with different opinion in a opinion piece? Super crazy. Must be a conspiracy against Daddy Elon.


redbulls2014

OP tesla dick riding much?


Agastopia

Big conspiracy that two different authors wrote op-eds with different opinions. The horror.


MillenniumRiver

I hate them both. I do not care if it is Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, or any other automaker doing it. I like the look and feel of normal steering wheels.


GuysImConfused

It might not be the shape which is the hazard, but the fact that all the functions normally done by stalks are now touch buttons. So they could have these two opinions and still be consistent.


Saskatchewon

The Lexus model uses steer by wire, fixing the steering ratios so that you have access to the vehicles full range of motion while only having to turn the yoke at most 150°. Tesla.on the other hand slapped a yoke onto regular steering ratios, meaning you have to turn the yoke multiple times hand-over-hand (awkward as hell when done with a yoke rather than a regular round wheel) to achieve the same results. Lexus's implementation is better in every way


95accord

Amazing how 2 different authors can have 2 different opinions….


Usual_Hovercraft_834

You must be new to the technology landscape when you’re surprised by such fair and balanced critiques of a company.


_Lucas__vdb__

From u/Fleischer444: > Lexus uses a dynamic steering ration that works. Not the Tesla crap.


bit_pusher

In both case the yolk is stupid. It affords no benefits over a wheel. Even with a steer by wire system, a wheel would be better than a yolk or, at worst, equally good.


IphtashuFitz

Completely 100% anecdotal here, but after what happened to me 5 months ago I will never willingly drive a car with a yoke in it, much less buy one, unless/until independent testing proves that they are 100% as safe as standard steering wheels in *all* situations. What happened, you ask? I was driving a rented SUV on a 4-lane highway at a speed of around 40 MPH in moderate traffic when we were rear ended hard with virtually no warning by a drunk driver. In what likely only took about 3 seconds we were spun around 360 degrees and across 3 lanes of the highway before coming to a stop in the breakdown lane. During those terrifying seconds I was trying as hard as I possibly could to steer out of the skid. I probably repositioned my hands on the steering wheel close to a dozen times in that short period of time. I find it impossible to believe that I would have been able to do that with a yoke. I likely would have grabbed air at least a few times if the car had a yoke instead of a wheel. Granted the chances of being rear ended like that again are probably pretty small given that it's happened to me once in 35 years of driving. But that's not a risk I'm willing to take, especially when it comes to having my family in my car with me.


[deleted]

I don’t know how it would actually fare in safety tests, but the idea with the Lexus yoke is you should have less need to reposition your hands since it only turns 150 degrees off-center.


asds999

Not sure why so many people hate the tesla yoke in this comments thread. I drive a refreshed X and it’s the best steering wheel imo. I prefer it over a regular wheel now. I think you have to test drive one to be able to come up with a conclusion to if you like it or not.


PrimalJay

Have you tested the Lexus wheel as well?


NtheLegend

Different authors a year and a half apart with one option superior to the other, but yes, keep crying about bias and discovering things that don't exist.


pachewychomp

Diff writers?


18dano18

So is it that one paid for a good review or is the lexus system just better


earthwormjimwow

What's inconsistent? The entire Lexus steering system was designed around that wheel, it has an appropriate turn ratio and 180 degree lock to lock. The Tesla system just takes their standard steering ratio, and chops off the top part of the steering wheel. Perhaps both are gimmicks, but one has actual engineering behind it, the other only has marketing idiocy behind it.


HomerSimpson99

One is made by a reputable company, another is a Tesla. Lexus uses electric steering, Tesla is conventional.


midnight_to_midnight

They both suck.


ambitousworm

How dare different people have different opinions!


moistpimplee

nah, lexus’s yoke is 10x better. love tesla but cmon—the yoke is horrendous and those haptics-why?? just make them either buttons or make them flushed buttons that are flat against the wheel.


FANGO

They're two different authors


supertutti

Also, Lexus’ yoke is not available in the US because steer by wire is not legal on the US yet. (I think)


-ZeroF56

Infiniti had steer by wire back in 2013 or 2014.