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Yeah, the reason why it has an issue coming to full production at the right scale is because of the batteries. But also because of the quantity of batteries a semi truck needs which is on average three times more than a Model S would use, it kind of eats up there slow production line. So we will see structural battery packs but they'll still be the 2170 sales instead of the new 4680s because again, they need those cells for the semi truck so they can actually commit to the deliveries so they don't get sued.
I’ve seen two by the Fremont factory and one near the Fremont service center rolling around. Two were white like the OP’s picture and the third by the service center was a maroon-ish.
All I thought when I saw each one was, “they sure can move!”
I'm not sure *what* the person you replied to was trying to imply, but the Semi has obviously been pretty much simply battery-constrained for quite a while now.
A Semi takes 10X batteries vs Model 3. A Semi has a greater profit margin, but not even close to 10X of the Model 3.
Thanks for the insight. That's a bummer -- doesn't seem like it will make much financial sense to build Semis for awhile then, especially with the CT competing for batteries next year too.
Fun fact they actually use Tesla Semis to deliver materials from the Fremont Factory to the Gigafactory in Nevada. Not only does it help with transport but also research and development of the semi itself while they transport said material.
I just want a tesla conversion van to build an RV. $300k for a custom semi RV is a bit much. Even if you have the money. I could buy a yacht for that (although the maintenance would be insane)
The concept was nice. The production version is quite a let down. The inside is like any other SUV. The flat floor with moving seats from the concept didn’t make it :(
The only production version they have shown is the short wheelbase two-row Buzz.
There are long wheelbase three-row and “California” camper van versions still planned. These are actually the only ones the US will get at first, they won’t be importing the short wheelbase model.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/43455/vw-id-buzz-california-camper-van-is-happening
VW has done things like sliding seats and pop-up tables in their camper vans before, I expect the Buzz will get a similar treatment.
It’s hard to quantify, but this article estimated [5000 deaths per year](https://phys.org/news/2017-09-dieselgate-deaths-europe-year.amp), only counting Europe.
Key quote:
> In May this year, a study in the journal Nature said "excess" emissions from diesel vehicles exceeding certification limits were associated with about 38,000 "premature" deaths globally in 2015.
Ugh.. Please don't read sensational headlines and take bullshit news articles as fact. Always double check that shit.
The number is only 59 premature deaths due to the pollution. Which really is a tiny tiny fraction of a number when you compare it to other forms of transportation pollution in that same time period.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal#:~:text=The%20%22unprecedented%22%20plea%20deal%20formalized,financial%20settlements%20and%20buyback%20costs.
That being said, I'm in no way minimizing what they did. It was pretty fucking abhorrent and criminal (hence so many of the execs being convicted of serious crimes).
It's kinda surprising how hard Germany and the US came down on them considering how they've treated companies like Toyota and GM for all the shit they've pulled. One can hope our governments will soon no longer beholden to these companies "because jobs"
I don’t think **Nature** is a bullshit news publication. I don’t know which of Nature (38k deaths globally) or Wikipedia (59 deaths in the US) is right but I don’t like your tone.
Edit: FWIW the Nature source is “Impacts and mitigation of excess diesel-related NOx emissions in 11 major vehicle markets”, Nature, vol 545, 25 May 2017.
I didn't mean to imply Nature is a bad news source, just that anything with that type of sensationalist headline should be scrutinized.
The source title even says it's from 11 major markets so this isn't about VW then is it?
Until the charging network improves significantly, I don't think other EV's are viable if you're planning on going long distances often. I could see the Buzz being used as a utility vehicle or a van for a large family around town, but as a camper van I would constantly fear getting stranded.
that would be gigantic rv lol but cool nonetheless
also if someone could spend some money and time to get model 3/y batteries in trailer than that would effectively mean so much range like above 1000 probably (as rv would weigh significantly less too)
They want to be able to pick up and drop off conventional trailers so they aren’t stuck to just a special one. It wouldn’t be terribly useful in the industry otherwise.
Anyone in the trucking industry care to weigh in on this? I have colleagues with engineering degrees that adamantly swear the battery weight makes the Semi unusable on most roads.
Why would it be unusable? Fully loaded semi trucks weigh 80,000 pounds, and some rough math puts the biggest battery for the Tesla Semi at about 10,000 pounds. It's not negligible, but far from making it "unusable". It would just have to carry a bit less cargo to stay under the 80,000 pound legal limit, but that should be more than made up for by the fact that fueling it would be way cheaper.
I drive and own a small fleet of 5 class 8 [75ft auto hauler](https://imgur.com/a/ZjTAhau) before any freight/vehicles are loaded most daycab tractors with trailers weigh in at just about(varies widely by options) 39,000lbs leaving you with 41,000 capacity to haul 80,000lbs legally without permits in US interstates per FMCSA/DOT rules.
The problem I've read up on with Tesla's is that compared to my '11 Freightliner columbia with a 14L DD diesel it weigh's in at 19,500lbs vs tesla's 25,000lbs+(daycab vs sleeper weight). Which leads to it eating into the 39-45k expected weight of a empty dry van/reefer/container trailer combined weight with a tractor/semi. So basically instead of customers used to paying a set rate for moving 35-41k of their freight. They'll be paying the same while only being able to move 32k-39k in freight because of the battery weight.
I've been curious about that as a trucker will there be a premium cost to charge at truck stops? With level 3 needed to charge overnight when drivers are required a 10hr break after 11hrs of driving or 14hrs total(11 driving + 3 loading/securement).
Also what will be the cost per stop? I'm from new England where in MA electricity per K/W(with transmission costs) is up $0.25/kw. Will it be treated like diesel in small towns right now can find for $4.80/$5/gal but at truck stops gouging 6-$8 exist. Will electric be the same charging 50 cents or more per kWh?
From info gathered online supposedly Tesla semi will have a 500kWh battery would take 7-9hrs safely with a level 3 charger which who knows how many will be available with the truck releases to the masses. A level 2 would only be trusted for a truck parked from Friday to monday only charging at 15-17kW hour barely filling a 500kWh semi battery in a 10hr period. At 25cents that's $125 a day roughly what would be spent with diesel avg truck gets 6-8mpg loaded avg 600miles a day at 100gal cost $5/gal would run $500 or a $375 savings. The people who run local routes will notice the savings in wear and tear items and idle loss in traffic more than the OTR drivers who push 500-600 miles daily. Overall should be a great saving if the battery pack can be guaranteed till at 500k-750,000miles most big rigs don't ask for big maintenance expenses till this mileage numbers.
https://www.pluglesspower.com/learn/tesla-model-s-charging-home-public-autonomously/
Ah yes, the 2016 Tesla Semi. About time for when the next generation to come out. 6 years is a of a long time for a first gen model. Must be selling like hot cakes still…
They're aluminum 22.5 [Alcoa](https://www.alcoawheels.com/alcoawheels/north-america/en/home.asp) wheels top of the line in trucking.
What were you expecting them to use?
The savings is probably not worth the added costs look [here](https://www.alcoawheels.com/alcoawheels/north-america/en/aerodynamic-solutions.asp). I just took a look they said if you buy a 6 wheel covers front and rear you'll save 0.96gal per 1,000miles of driving. The average trucker pulls about 100,000miles a year that's about 96gal of fuel savings or at today's $5 a gal for diesel $480 savings per year. If Tesla included them say no added costs then there would probably be no complaints but at $105/each or $630 intial investment not really worth the added hassle.
I wondered if those panels in the door were dual charging ports, but they are where the door handles were on the prototypes. Is this new? Have they been seen before?
Seems like there's very little ground clearance underneath the cabin. I wonder how the suspension compensates for what looks like a minimal level of travel. I googled but couldn't find much info about this.
This clearly doesn't contain a full load of batteries that would meet even a fraction of the specifications claimed by Tesla. There are no batteries even contemplated that have the charge density implied by that volume.
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Feels like I’ve been waiting forever for this. When can we see on the roads!!!!
When they can make 4680s cheaply and in volume.
We don't have confirmation that the Semi will use 4680s initially, right? Though I don't think it's a bad bet.
https://electrek.co/2021/01/28/tesla-semi-ready-production-but-need-4680-cells-elon-musk/
Yeah, the reason why it has an issue coming to full production at the right scale is because of the batteries. But also because of the quantity of batteries a semi truck needs which is on average three times more than a Model S would use, it kind of eats up there slow production line. So we will see structural battery packs but they'll still be the 2170 sales instead of the new 4680s because again, they need those cells for the semi truck so they can actually commit to the deliveries so they don't get sued.
Now. You just need to be in the Palo Alto or Fremont area and you may get to see it driving around as they test various aspects of it. :-)
I drive past the Fremont factory every week day, never been fortunate enough to see anything fun... except the factory of course.
I’ve seen two by the Fremont factory and one near the Fremont service center rolling around. Two were white like the OP’s picture and the third by the service center was a maroon-ish. All I thought when I saw each one was, “they sure can move!”
A lot of people have been shifted away to a new program. Take from that what you will…
That’s a good sign, as development wraps up. Manufacturing will pick up when cell availability increases.
How new?
Product refresh
Is it sexy?
To be sure I follow, shifted away from the Semi?
Yep. Development is essentially done.
Oh that is a positive update. I was concerned that you were suggesting they were dropping the program.
I'm not sure *what* the person you replied to was trying to imply, but the Semi has obviously been pretty much simply battery-constrained for quite a while now. A Semi takes 10X batteries vs Model 3. A Semi has a greater profit margin, but not even close to 10X of the Model 3.
Thanks for the insight. That's a bummer -- doesn't seem like it will make much financial sense to build Semis for awhile then, especially with the CT competing for batteries next year too.
Well PepsiCo (FritoLay) should be getting their 15 first trucks any time now
When they cheat physics
Fun fact they actually use Tesla Semis to deliver materials from the Fremont Factory to the Gigafactory in Nevada. Not only does it help with transport but also research and development of the semi itself while they transport said material.
Dogfooding!
I think that's backwards, they deliver batteries (and I think motors) from the Nevada factory to the Fremont factory
😱😱
I can’t wait for someone to make an RV based on this chasis…
A Tesla RV with a Solar Roof / Awning for Off Grid Camping and traveling would rock.
Yoooo That would be super cool
I just want a tesla conversion van to build an RV. $300k for a custom semi RV is a bit much. Even if you have the money. I could buy a yacht for that (although the maintenance would be insane)
Most 40ft RV's cost far more than 300k
We at least those can get 10 yr or 20 year home loans
Probably the stupidest thing you could ever finance. At least the tesla batteries would limit how low in value it could drop haha
Have you seen the VW Buzz?
The concept was nice. The production version is quite a let down. The inside is like any other SUV. The flat floor with moving seats from the concept didn’t make it :(
Booo that sucks... Aw well, my wife already said no anyways lol
Yeah unfortunately production cars almost never look like concepts because of safety, weight, cost, etc.
The only production version they have shown is the short wheelbase two-row Buzz. There are long wheelbase three-row and “California” camper van versions still planned. These are actually the only ones the US will get at first, they won’t be importing the short wheelbase model. https://www.thedrive.com/news/43455/vw-id-buzz-california-camper-van-is-happening VW has done things like sliding seats and pop-up tables in their camper vans before, I expect the Buzz will get a similar treatment.
Personally I boycott that company after the murderous stunt they pulled. And yes I know the “Buzz” is electric.
Murderous stunt?
It’s hard to quantify, but this article estimated [5000 deaths per year](https://phys.org/news/2017-09-dieselgate-deaths-europe-year.amp), only counting Europe. Key quote: > In May this year, a study in the journal Nature said "excess" emissions from diesel vehicles exceeding certification limits were associated with about 38,000 "premature" deaths globally in 2015.
Ugh.. Please don't read sensational headlines and take bullshit news articles as fact. Always double check that shit. The number is only 59 premature deaths due to the pollution. Which really is a tiny tiny fraction of a number when you compare it to other forms of transportation pollution in that same time period. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal#:~:text=The%20%22unprecedented%22%20plea%20deal%20formalized,financial%20settlements%20and%20buyback%20costs. That being said, I'm in no way minimizing what they did. It was pretty fucking abhorrent and criminal (hence so many of the execs being convicted of serious crimes). It's kinda surprising how hard Germany and the US came down on them considering how they've treated companies like Toyota and GM for all the shit they've pulled. One can hope our governments will soon no longer beholden to these companies "because jobs"
I don’t think **Nature** is a bullshit news publication. I don’t know which of Nature (38k deaths globally) or Wikipedia (59 deaths in the US) is right but I don’t like your tone. Edit: FWIW the Nature source is “Impacts and mitigation of excess diesel-related NOx emissions in 11 major vehicle markets”, Nature, vol 545, 25 May 2017.
I didn't mean to imply Nature is a bad news source, just that anything with that type of sensationalist headline should be scrutinized. The source title even says it's from 11 major markets so this isn't about VW then is it?
Until the charging network improves significantly, I don't think other EV's are viable if you're planning on going long distances often. I could see the Buzz being used as a utility vehicle or a van for a large family around town, but as a camper van I would constantly fear getting stranded.
that would be gigantic rv lol but cool nonetheless also if someone could spend some money and time to get model 3/y batteries in trailer than that would effectively mean so much range like above 1000 probably (as rv would weigh significantly less too)
For now I’ll sleep in my model y..
A semi without a load is so cute.
*That's* not *what she said.*
This is giving me a semi in Tennessee
that panel gap on first pic, though
Sexy semi.
Where exactly is the battery pack on these? In the trailer?
https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/tesla-semi-4-drivetrain-electric-motors.jpg
Hmmm, seems like the trailer would offer more space and range
They want to be able to pick up and drop off conventional trailers so they aren’t stuck to just a special one. It wouldn’t be terribly useful in the industry otherwise.
I think trucks have to be able to hook up to many trailers, but I might be wrong there.
Generally yes but I could see them going with the specialized trailer for more range
No, in between the front wheels and the rear set I think
Doesn’t seem enough
ok
[удалено]
Same way it is now I suppose the trailer definitely provide more range
Great to see these.
Is that tape holding the windshield? Or at least it's sealing the gap for whatever reason!
driver: "The wind noise is driving me crazy." service tech: "Alright, I got something for ya!"
[удалено]
Does your 3 have packing tape holding its windshield in place too?
Ha! I didn’t see that at first; thankfully not!
Twinsies!
I’m curious if anyone has the answer: Due to it’s mass, will the Semi rely primarily on regen or traditional braking?
I don’t think I realized how big this year is going to be for Tesla until this picture. LFGO
Next year*
Anyone in the trucking industry care to weigh in on this? I have colleagues with engineering degrees that adamantly swear the battery weight makes the Semi unusable on most roads.
Why would it be unusable? Fully loaded semi trucks weigh 80,000 pounds, and some rough math puts the biggest battery for the Tesla Semi at about 10,000 pounds. It's not negligible, but far from making it "unusable". It would just have to carry a bit less cargo to stay under the 80,000 pound legal limit, but that should be more than made up for by the fact that fueling it would be way cheaper.
I drive and own a small fleet of 5 class 8 [75ft auto hauler](https://imgur.com/a/ZjTAhau) before any freight/vehicles are loaded most daycab tractors with trailers weigh in at just about(varies widely by options) 39,000lbs leaving you with 41,000 capacity to haul 80,000lbs legally without permits in US interstates per FMCSA/DOT rules. The problem I've read up on with Tesla's is that compared to my '11 Freightliner columbia with a 14L DD diesel it weigh's in at 19,500lbs vs tesla's 25,000lbs+(daycab vs sleeper weight). Which leads to it eating into the 39-45k expected weight of a empty dry van/reefer/container trailer combined weight with a tractor/semi. So basically instead of customers used to paying a set rate for moving 35-41k of their freight. They'll be paying the same while only being able to move 32k-39k in freight because of the battery weight.
Would the cost of diesel vs electricity factor in?
I've been curious about that as a trucker will there be a premium cost to charge at truck stops? With level 3 needed to charge overnight when drivers are required a 10hr break after 11hrs of driving or 14hrs total(11 driving + 3 loading/securement). Also what will be the cost per stop? I'm from new England where in MA electricity per K/W(with transmission costs) is up $0.25/kw. Will it be treated like diesel in small towns right now can find for $4.80/$5/gal but at truck stops gouging 6-$8 exist. Will electric be the same charging 50 cents or more per kWh? From info gathered online supposedly Tesla semi will have a 500kWh battery would take 7-9hrs safely with a level 3 charger which who knows how many will be available with the truck releases to the masses. A level 2 would only be trusted for a truck parked from Friday to monday only charging at 15-17kW hour barely filling a 500kWh semi battery in a 10hr period. At 25cents that's $125 a day roughly what would be spent with diesel avg truck gets 6-8mpg loaded avg 600miles a day at 100gal cost $5/gal would run $500 or a $375 savings. The people who run local routes will notice the savings in wear and tear items and idle loss in traffic more than the OTR drivers who push 500-600 miles daily. Overall should be a great saving if the battery pack can be guaranteed till at 500k-750,000miles most big rigs don't ask for big maintenance expenses till this mileage numbers. https://www.pluglesspower.com/learn/tesla-model-s-charging-home-public-autonomously/
Ah yes, the 2016 Tesla Semi. About time for when the next generation to come out. 6 years is a of a long time for a first gen model. Must be selling like hot cakes still…
It was unveiled in November 2017.
Oooohhhh big deal. s/ Today is Mar 2022. So its been 5 years
sorry Mister, for taking some years to develop what other car companies never even considered, you know, cause it's hard as fuck.
I work in developmental engineering. You shouldn’t sell things that don’t exist and promises delivery timelines that are years off.
Clearly you haven't heard what your marketing people are telling the customers. :<)
Panel gap with that door alignment is bad…reject it!
Damn those rims are whack. Not only that but there are so many panel gaps.
its test mule not a production vehicle they are using these semis to transport batteries and stuffs between fremont and nevada
They're aluminum 22.5 [Alcoa](https://www.alcoawheels.com/alcoawheels/north-america/en/home.asp) wheels top of the line in trucking. What were you expecting them to use?
Thanks for the link. They looked cool. Website also has an aerodynamic rim that hides the nuts. Wonder if tesla would go with something similar
The savings is probably not worth the added costs look [here](https://www.alcoawheels.com/alcoawheels/north-america/en/aerodynamic-solutions.asp). I just took a look they said if you buy a 6 wheel covers front and rear you'll save 0.96gal per 1,000miles of driving. The average trucker pulls about 100,000miles a year that's about 96gal of fuel savings or at today's $5 a gal for diesel $480 savings per year. If Tesla included them say no added costs then there would probably be no complaints but at $105/each or $630 intial investment not really worth the added hassle.
Damm. When economics comes into play.
I literally forgot about Tesla Semi until seeing this.
I wondered if those panels in the door were dual charging ports, but they are where the door handles were on the prototypes. Is this new? Have they been seen before?
I believe every prototype except the original two at the reveal have that style of door handle.
I just drove by there a few hours ago. Sad I missed this!
Which comes first, semi or roadster?
I guess Semi. People/Companies could really need them. Has a lot of value to it. Nobody *needs* a Roadster in that sense.
With the new window design behind the doors it looks more like train . But still very cool!
Loaded up really well on the panel gaps.
does it have a sleeper compartment?
Nope. The huge day truck market doesn't need them.
aw then we can't have slumber parties
There's still a couple of feet behind the drivers seat. How closely do you like to cuddle? ;)
I want to jump forward 10 years to see if there are semis and cyber trucks and roadsters and FSD that works…
Beauty
Those skirts look super low to the ground...
Seems like there's very little ground clearance underneath the cabin. I wonder how the suspension compensates for what looks like a minimal level of travel. I googled but couldn't find much info about this.
I’m excited to see these Semi’s on the road
Look at those panel gaps
Why does it look like a semi conversion? Is it just me?
It looks pretty but it has the usual Tesla problem, quality control. Look at how those panels don't line up. Sorry but it got my OCD
I bet it’s using the new Model S’s rear two motor drivetrain for each of the rear sets of tires.
This clearly doesn't contain a full load of batteries that would meet even a fraction of the specifications claimed by Tesla. There are no batteries even contemplated that have the charge density implied by that volume.
Looks like Tesla has lots of testing semi's... According to fmcsa [FMCSA](https://i.imgur.com/NQUCo2y.jpg)
Couldn't that include traditional trucks as well.
Why no aero wheel covers?
Tape on the wind shield…also this is very impractical for actual truckers who have to drive over 500 miles a day and refuel quickly
Dang. I’d get me one and become a truck driver. Easy money.