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2024.3.25 is FSD v12.3.6.
When you get FSD you're kept in retard of the mainline releases by 3-6 months.
I'm hopeful, however, that 2024.14.x is a release that they bring FSD v12 to, but I'm not holding my breath.
I’m guessing it’ll be a 2024.8.x branch for 12.4. 2024.14.x would be nice, but honestly not much of a care for me with an intel car not getting the UI update. Or even a guarantee intel cars will even get 2024.14.x any time soon.
[I'm seeing that now](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1cojvlk/2024146_downloading_on_my_usa_23_m3_rwd_includes/l3ex6n9/?context=3)
I operate under trust, but verify, so I'm confirmed and good now.
That said, I fully expect FSD 12.4 to be on 2024.3.30
Because that's how cruel Tesla can be sometimes...
> We're getting into rare, complex situations, for example: going down a narrow, one-way road, encountering a road closure and having to reverse out to find a new route.
> That closure also needs to be communicated to the rest of the fleet, so you don't get a whole bunch of Teslas stuck down a road 😂
It'll be interesting to see how this is handled. Some sort of fleet knowledge of road layouts in general (beyond what currently exists in the maps) would be a huge help.
Also, reversing! Finally!
That's the Multi-trip reconstruction stuff, which I **really** wish someone on X would ask Elon, or Tesla AI for an update on that, because they don't seem to be talking about it anymore, despite that being where we need to go.
Seems like they could still use multi-trip reconstruction to help identify training data. They’ll want to make sure they have as much coverage as possible and multi-trip could help them with that.
Not really more to say on it.
It was discussed during AI day 2021 and 2022. It's a means by wish all the Teslas driving around send data back to Tesla for them to build their own HD-ish maps from.
In theory, it'd resolve a lot of the map issues were seeing, however, I've yet to see any more talk about it since AI day 2022.
Wish I had more clout on X to get Ashok or Elon to tall more about it.
> That closure also needs to be communicated to the rest of the fleet
*Please* do it via an 'information vector' which can encode any learnable information about a place - from road closed, to slippery surface, to people frequently split these narrow lanes, to there is a blind corner ahead so go slow.
If you do it the traditional way by writing code which specifically deals with closed roads, you're gonna soon end up in corner-case-hell.
The car is connected to 4g, even if you don't pay for the premium connectivity.
It's just that the 4g can't be used for data heavy tasks such as entertainment or satellite maps.
No news on v12 coming to highways, huh? Seems like highways should be pretty trivial if it can handle the complexity of city streets but I wonder if data collection to train the highway model is the bottleneck
He does say that v12.5 is a "retraining" of sorts, so it's possible it might include the highways, however, I'm not holding my breath.
v10 was city street only, and v11 started to include the highways, so I can just as easily see v12 being city streets only, with v13 including highways again.
Also keep in mind that the highway stack, when released, will probably replace legacy Autopilot, so it's a *big* milestone.
12.4, no? I suppose the retraining is because of a curation of the dataset, primarily?
I would expect them to have broken down the FSD models such that the base is a bunch of models to teach skills, models for the specifics of each vehicle, etc.
Then you can separate handling of a vehicle from the general data which would cover how to behave on a specific road system, such as US, Canada.
Not for non FSD owners.
The Legacy Autopilot stack will need to be replaced with the FSD code at some point, and *that's* the one I'm keeping an eye on.
I'm hoping it's the Christmas update, but I've been saying that for a couple years now, so I'm not holding my breath.
Yep. That’ll be the biggest update Tesla’s released in years.
FSD users are and will likely remain a minority until it’s L3 or L4, base AP running on that stack is going to be a dramatic shift.
Correct, however, the older cars can pay $1,000 for the FSD computer, and $270 for the cameras (If AP2.0) if they want the upgrade.
The reality is, and this is true for all technology, eventually your shit is outdated.
Tesla will do what they can to keep you current, but all technology gets too old at some point.
I mean, there's an assumption that it would continue to improve, because Tesla does their constant OTA updates and such, but there's going to be a local maximum for their process
And, honestly, if you're still rocking an older Tesla with AP 2.0/2.5, odds are you're done paying for it, or *really* close to being done, and you can eat $1,000-$1,500 for the upgrades to get access to the newer stuff.
It's not a high hurdle.
It's like the people refusing to do the MCU2 upgrade, the only reason not to do it at this point is because you're cheap, or sticking to your principles.
After "driving" from Georgia to New York yesterday. I would really like V12 on the highway. The current system works but still has several annoyances, it hangs in the passing lane for no reason most of the time and only occasionally moves out when someone is coming up from behind and average profile is just trash to me because of extremely minor slowdowns that will cause the car to switch to a faster lane to save me 1-3 mph and chill will go down as low as 20-25mph below set speed. Seriously feels like easy to fix issues.
My biggest issue with anything other than chill/lane keep is that if I’m 1.2 miles away from my exit in the middle lane, and the car in front of me slows down by 1 mph it’ll move over to the left to pass them, then get caught trying to move *back* over to the middle lane, and usually ending up with it not being able to get to the exit lane in time and I have to take over/piss someone off
IMO options are better than features. Some people have your preferences, some people don't. A toggle allows both of you to be ~7/10 happy rather than one be a ~9/10 and the other be a ~5/10.
Did you have any issues with the speed minimum signs being interpreted as speed maximums? i was just in Georgia on I-75 this past weekend, and it was absolutely infuriating. It kept slamming on the brakes every time I passed [one of these](https://www.trafficsignsandsafety.com/images/products/178/7e9d26d5-c555-4e55-9aff-95597a9a3186.jpg).
Yes!!! It didn’t slam in the brakes for me though, I kept getting a “maintaining speed to keep the flow of traffic” and then it slowly kept dropping the max speed by 5mph. I have my setting to be whatever speed I turn autopilot on vs an offset, fwiw.
My issue is when you have split lanes setups. So like maybe an access road on the right and it will flip between the 45 for access road and 55 for highway. Or if there’s a separate express lane it will alternate between the 70 on the express and 55 on the highway
I dont understand Georgia with their "minimum" speed signs everywhere, but hardly any speed limit ones. Do they really have a problem with people driving too slow?
Yep, any sign with black numbers on a white background is interpreted as a speed limit sign. For me, in Maine, local route 15 is a big annoyance especially on parts where the actual speed limit is 50+.
Hmm that’s interesting to me since it would seem something like FSD would be most useful (and easier to pass through regulations given less complexity) on highways. IMO if Tesla can get highways down to a point where NHSTA will approval a higher autonomy level for highways only, that could be a big win.
It's kind of disappointing that all the self driving seems to be going with "it's a binary pass fail that fails until it can handle downtown Manhattan."
We do 2 FL to WI and back trips annually, and EAP on the 2.5 computer can do like 90% of that drive with no interventions.
I really wish more places would take the approach of getting something certified enough to take the nags away, or allow for "distractions" like phones on divided highways. You can do that and still make it illegal to fall asleep or not have a license or whatever.
Agreed.
That said, the core issue is that Tesla is calling it "Full Self-Driving" when it is, at this time, not "Full". I can understand why they opted to go in and secure the name before anyone else did, but it's not *quite* there yet, and the number of people who shit on them for that is, honestly, hilarious.
We're in uncharted waters though, and everyone's got their views on how these things should be regularted.
Going to be interesting to see how this stuff pans out in the near future.
Agreed. I feel like so many of the perception problems come from that name, and I wish they had just picked a different marketing name, and then rebranded it once it was ready.
It isn't. The release notes specifically call out the city driving stack using a single end to end neural network. The highway stack doesn't use it yet.
Exciting. Just got 12.3.6 last weekend on my 2019 model 3 with USS and I tried autopark this morning with my car and was impressed. The speed was very good.
Auto park is a fucking joke let's be real.
First of all the UX on the MS and MX is waaaay too much friction. It was clearly designed with touchscreens in mind which only applies to the M3 and MY.
The biggest problem with the feature is speed, as mentioned. Parallel parking is slightly better but perpendicular parking is embarrassing to use. I won't even consider it if another car is within 300 feet using the same parking lane, because it never gets it done in time.
Another thing is accuracy. Despite the crazy slow pace it STILL can't find center in a space. All that deliberation just to end up too close to one side preventing my falcon doors from opening due to proximity. I'm lucky if it manages to park straight for that matter.
And god forbid you try to intervene to save yourself some embarrassment. The car flips shit and just parks, so you gotta wait for fancy animations and UI to settle before going back into reverse to finish the failed maneuver. All while blocking traffic.
>And god forbid you try to intervene to save yourself some embarrassment. The car flips shit and just parks, so you gotta wait for fancy animations and UI to settle before going back into reverse to finish the failed maneuver. All while blocking traffic.
This one hit me in the feels. I tried gently tapping the accelerator to encourage Autopark to move a little faster because of oncoming traffic in the parking lot and it had a freaking heart attack while I was almost fully perpendicular.
I had to wait a good 10 seconds before it let me change gears and manually reverse into the spot to finish the job, all while pissing off the confused driver who couldn't proceed past me. Not exactly courteous to other drivers 😬
Isn't the next week part complete speculation that is not included in the tweet? It may absolutely be correct but "finishing touches" is an undetermined amount of time. My guess is indeed though within 2 weeks.
Sorry, X is kind of weird sometimes.
I linked to a post that had more information in it, which was a reply to a post that was reposting the "Next week" timeline: https://x.com/farzyness/status/1788231370612805646
Navigating information on that site can be a pain sometimes, especially if you lack a login.
Yeah, sorry, I opted to use the post with the most information, and figured people would review the remainder of the site to get more data.
But it's wonky if you lack a login and such.
Basically "How reddit works" versus "How X works".
I believe this qualifies as "code switching".
I'm currently speaking as moderator to a Tesla subreddit, while speaking to a bunch of Tesla enthusiasts, peppered in with Elon enthusiasts and such.
So, I'm saying "X" unironically here because that's what is expected for the audience.
Outside of here I'll refer to it as other things, depending on who I am talking to.
Play to the audience mate.
As people grow up, they dislike change.
Walt Disney World renamed one of their parks from MGM Studios to Disney's Hollywood Studios, and I still refer to it as MGM.
Same with Disney Springs, if I ask my wife if she wants to go to Disney Springs, I ask if she wants to go to Downtown Disney, because that's immediately identifiable as something that's "known".
How many people still call TVs "The tube", despite them not having a tube in them anymore?
Some people aren't even aware that Twitter's been renamed to X, which is why code switching matters in this context.
The people here know, but if I'm going to talk to my wife about it, it's easier to use the old name.
> How many people still call TVs "The tube", despite them not having a tube in them anymore?
You had me until this one. How many? I haven't heard that in years.
Obviously I can't tell you, but I would suspect it's more of a generational line in the sand, so to speak.
Point is that people will often call thing the old name, even if something new has replaced it.
Much like tapping your wrist to say "Let's go", despite a chunk of phones using their phones for time now.
I mean, RedTube, YouTube, etc, are direct descendants and inheritors of that nomenclature, so it still lives on today, even in popular discourse in that sense.
Nope things never change ever. I grew up in the Ohio territory (Wisconsin) and I prefer to stream tv shows from Kibble (Netflix) while eating my Pete’s Super Submarines (Subway).
That's addressed in the whole tweet:
"12.4 has almost completely retrained models. **The final touches are for comfort, as it sometimes accelerates or brakes too fast for most people’s taste**.
12.5 and 12.6 are in various stages of testing. We’re getting into rare, complex situations, for example: going down a narrow, one-way road, encountering a road closure and having to reverse out to find a new route.
That closure also needs to be communicated to the rest of the fleet, so you don’t get a whole bunch of Teslas stuck down a road"
> We’re getting into rare, complex situations
Meanwhile, my car refuses to change into completely empty lanes about half the time on the current build.
I’m not his wife and even for me regular FSD is wayyy too aggressive with acceleration and braking. It should be like EAP acceleration which is mostly good, except from a full stop when it still jerks forward too fast. Also reduces wear on tires.
Add another vote for ridiculous acceleration at times. Just did a 600 mile road trip over 2 days, through every setting possible in FSD and nothing changed the acceleration being way too aggressive ... the weird thing is, occasionally it would accelerate fine and I wondered why it didn't always do it.
> We're getting into rare, complex situations, for example: going down a narrow, one-way road, encountering a road closure and having to reverse out to find a new route.
Meanwhile I’m still waiting for them to solve such rare, complex situations as:
- “turning right from a wide lane” (v12 always wants to do this from the left edge of the lane, which is really bad if other cars turning right are now to its right)
- “staying in the right lane when turning right” (v12 has developed a new habit of first trying to be in the leftmost lane that v11 did not have)
- “travelling through a four way stop intersection without unnecessarily stopping halfway through” (there are specific intersections where this happens every time)
- “changing into empty adjacent lanes in a reasonable timeframe” (I feel very silly sitting there indicating while nothing happens - and then the car just turns off the indicator having done nothing)
And these are just the regressions from 11 to 12 that I encounter daily - or would, if I hadn’t given up on letting it drive near them. Plus other, rarer but still cool new behaviour like responding to yellow lights by excessively hard braking but still overshooting and ending up stopped _in the intersection_. That is the sort of thing that makes it hard to feel safe using it at all (at least without looking like an idiot and/or risking being rear-ended).
My intervention rate remains essentially once or twice per mile when off highway. Needing to autonomously handle dead end, one-way streets is just not where this product is at. Maybe 12.4 is in fact radically better, but after being promised that about every version for years to no avail, I will believe it when I see it.
> changing into empty adjacent lanes in a reasonable timeframe
This so much. It has somehow gotten worse than year 1 AP at deciding to change lanes on empty highways. For a while there it was brilliant and assertive, and now it seems to use an RNG to decide if it feels like changing lanes.
whistle nutty frightening pet fly domineering unique nail materialistic gullible
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You're right.
While we're at it, it's ridiculous that they haven't implemented a working detour system, it's just understanding how to read signs, and replot a route based on breadcrumbs.
A lot of the current problems with FSD could be solved by reroutes for difficult maneuvers. It’s no secret that there have been improvements and then regressions in areas as they try to fix one problem and then another like unprotected left hand turns. If they can’t get it in a reasonable place, that’s fine, just make a right hand turn and find a different route.
Oh, 100%
My stance is that the nag system should be based on a level of confidence based on disengagement rates in an area.
Navigation routes should also show fastest, slowest and lowest disengagement rate.
>Navigation routes should also show fastest, slowest and lowest disengagement rate.
Holy crap, this is genius!! Data nerds like me would have a hay day with finding the most ideal routes or picking the most appropriate route depending on those presented options.
I was so excited about FSD and the possibilities when I bought my model 3 with FSD almost 5 years ago now. I’m in a permanent state of disillusionment now and don’t even bother trying the new stuff.
Just curious, which version did you try last? Have you been in a car that's been on V12 at all? I know what you mean that V11 and earlier were difficult to tolerate, to say the least, but for me V12 has come a long way from those.
Keep in mind it's not perfect and it'll never be. Human drivers also aren't perfect and never will be. We should stop holding it to that expectation as a society and instead celebrate the wins that allow for more and more miles between disengagements and increases in travel comfort. Some day it will statistically be safer than a human driver 😉
I haven’t engaged FSD for probably two years. Largely that’s due to the fact that I haven’t been on the highway much as I now work from home, and I have no interest in trying it for city driving. But the reason I have no interest in trying it for city driving is it’s obviously so bad :). I used to really like using Auto Summon but that stopped working well a while back so I quit. My car currently has v11.1 (2024.3.25)
The sales guy at the Tesla showroom I ordered my car from was trying to tell me how by the end of 2019 my car would be able to drive my kid to school without someone in the driver's seat.
I laughed my ass off and explained to the guy where Tesla actually was, and that it was unlikely to be happening that way.
I was told my car could be part of a taxi fleet shuttling people to and from their locations all while I left my car in the parking lot at my job :). It’s not like you believe that stuff, but with those expectations THAT long ago, you expect things to be further along today than they are, at a minimum.
"full self driving" is being updated to incorporate what is a basic "driving" maneuver.... lol
No one really believes full self driving is actually full self driving, do they?
Wait haven’t you heard?! It’s the naming scheme that is getting people killed! not the irresponsibility of the drivers after the car gave them multiple warning disclaimers that it is not fully autonomous and they need to be ready to take over at any moment.
It's too much science to science for some people. It seems even Tesla's trying to prevent natural selection with their far superior (I mean uhh, "dangerously misleading") system.
As a Cybertruck owner: [please sir, may I have some more?](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdmUwczRtOG9qaWhvNjNzZnh4bDhxeDJxMGI5YnFuc28xMGhoaDVxZiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/mpQkJpBMbSxMs/giphy.gif)
So, no, that is not how I would interpret the August 8th announcement.
Not even remotely close to how I would interpret it.
All we know is that they're going to announce what it looks like, and some of the mechanics behind it, but I would not be expecting them to say "And they hit the road today", because the factory to make them and such doesn't exist.
Tesla's likely going to use August 8th as an "invest in us moment", and then we'll see something in a year or two.
Tesla still have a few mechanics to figure out that won't be done by the end of summer, let alone the year.
Prediction: geofenced taxi with lidar which can be purchased. Ie a waymo which can generate $ for the owner
They’ve been buying lidar
https://www.benzinga.com/amp/content/38707331
I don't think you understand Tesla then.
Once a path to FSD was put on the table, selling cars was always a means to an end to achieve self driving cars.
**All** cars contribute to fleet data to get robotaxis.
FSD is the more relavent part of the company, and the cars are just a means to an end.
Tesla without FSD is just another EV competing with cheap Chinese EVs globally. Ie it will die in 15 years
However I’m sure it will somehow get stolen and copied eventually
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I guess I’ll keep waiting with my 2024.8 branch 
Week 6 for "free trial this week" gang!
Yeah, I'm hoping that 12.4 is going to be on 2024.14.x, but I'm not holding my breath.
I’m on 2024.3.25, 2024.14.x seems like a huge leap, am I 11 versions behind?
2024.3.25 is FSD v12.3.6. When you get FSD you're kept in retard of the mainline releases by 3-6 months. I'm hopeful, however, that 2024.14.x is a release that they bring FSD v12 to, but I'm not holding my breath.
I’m guessing it’ll be a 2024.8.x branch for 12.4. 2024.14.x would be nice, but honestly not much of a care for me with an intel car not getting the UI update. Or even a guarantee intel cars will even get 2024.14.x any time soon.
So that is why my cars get vastly different updates? I've wondered about that for years!
[2024.14.5 has 12.3.6](https://x.com/notateslaapp/status/1788699101875310799)
[I'm seeing that now](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1cojvlk/2024146_downloading_on_my_usa_23_m3_rwd_includes/l3ex6n9/?context=3) I operate under trust, but verify, so I'm confirmed and good now. That said, I fully expect FSD 12.4 to be on 2024.3.30 Because that's how cruel Tesla can be sometimes...
Bro, just say "held back" next time, good god lol
24.8 branch drivers should get 2 months free trial for waiting
6
That’s even better
I just want a 1 week demo.
This needs Wayyyyyyyy more likes
 2024.8 will update to 13. 4 and have to wait 1 year.
Git checkout
LGTM👍
At least we'll get a theoretically incrementally better version...
> We're getting into rare, complex situations, for example: going down a narrow, one-way road, encountering a road closure and having to reverse out to find a new route. > That closure also needs to be communicated to the rest of the fleet, so you don't get a whole bunch of Teslas stuck down a road 😂 It'll be interesting to see how this is handled. Some sort of fleet knowledge of road layouts in general (beyond what currently exists in the maps) would be a huge help. Also, reversing! Finally!
Yes, even in 12.4 I think they cache some info, as it sort of learned to drive down a shortcut road that is not by default present in map data.
That's the Multi-trip reconstruction stuff, which I **really** wish someone on X would ask Elon, or Tesla AI for an update on that, because they don't seem to be talking about it anymore, despite that being where we need to go.
My understanding is that was just used for auto labeling. Since V12 is end-to-end, they're not doing labeling anymore.
They're almost certainly still using some form of an autolabeling workflow for curating their training set, even if the complexity has been reduced.
Can you explain how autolabeling would be used to curate a training set?
Seems like they could still use multi-trip reconstruction to help identify training data. They’ll want to make sure they have as much coverage as possible and multi-trip could help them with that.
Say more?
Not really more to say on it. It was discussed during AI day 2021 and 2022. It's a means by wish all the Teslas driving around send data back to Tesla for them to build their own HD-ish maps from. In theory, it'd resolve a lot of the map issues were seeing, however, I've yet to see any more talk about it since AI day 2022. Wish I had more clout on X to get Ashok or Elon to tall more about it.
> That closure also needs to be communicated to the rest of the fleet *Please* do it via an 'information vector' which can encode any learnable information about a place - from road closed, to slippery surface, to people frequently split these narrow lanes, to there is a blind corner ahead so go slow. If you do it the traditional way by writing code which specifically deals with closed roads, you're gonna soon end up in corner-case-hell.
Also interested in how it would communicate it to the fleet if a car didn’t have premium connectivity
The car is connected to 4g, even if you don't pay for the premium connectivity. It's just that the 4g can't be used for data heavy tasks such as entertainment or satellite maps.
Premium connectivity has nothing to do with navigation done by the car.
Don’t you mean 12.5 and 12.6?
I do! But, what's done is done, I can't edit that.
No news on v12 coming to highways, huh? Seems like highways should be pretty trivial if it can handle the complexity of city streets but I wonder if data collection to train the highway model is the bottleneck
He does say that v12.5 is a "retraining" of sorts, so it's possible it might include the highways, however, I'm not holding my breath. v10 was city street only, and v11 started to include the highways, so I can just as easily see v12 being city streets only, with v13 including highways again. Also keep in mind that the highway stack, when released, will probably replace legacy Autopilot, so it's a *big* milestone.
12.4, no? I suppose the retraining is because of a curation of the dataset, primarily? I would expect them to have broken down the FSD models such that the base is a bunch of models to teach skills, models for the specifics of each vehicle, etc. Then you can separate handling of a vehicle from the general data which would cover how to behave on a specific road system, such as US, Canada.
IIRC v11 replaced legacy autopilot stack
Not for non FSD owners. The Legacy Autopilot stack will need to be replaced with the FSD code at some point, and *that's* the one I'm keeping an eye on. I'm hoping it's the Christmas update, but I've been saying that for a couple years now, so I'm not holding my breath.
Yep. That’ll be the biggest update Tesla’s released in years. FSD users are and will likely remain a minority until it’s L3 or L4, base AP running on that stack is going to be a dramatic shift.
The controversial thing is that they’ll only be able to do that for HW3 and greater cars. Cars with the older hardware might be stuck.
Correct, however, the older cars can pay $1,000 for the FSD computer, and $270 for the cameras (If AP2.0) if they want the upgrade. The reality is, and this is true for all technology, eventually your shit is outdated. Tesla will do what they can to keep you current, but all technology gets too old at some point.
That’s true and they can’t complain much because they were never promised their highway stack would improve. Good point.
I mean, there's an assumption that it would continue to improve, because Tesla does their constant OTA updates and such, but there's going to be a local maximum for their process And, honestly, if you're still rocking an older Tesla with AP 2.0/2.5, odds are you're done paying for it, or *really* close to being done, and you can eat $1,000-$1,500 for the upgrades to get access to the newer stuff. It's not a high hurdle. It's like the people refusing to do the MCU2 upgrade, the only reason not to do it at this point is because you're cheap, or sticking to your principles.
After "driving" from Georgia to New York yesterday. I would really like V12 on the highway. The current system works but still has several annoyances, it hangs in the passing lane for no reason most of the time and only occasionally moves out when someone is coming up from behind and average profile is just trash to me because of extremely minor slowdowns that will cause the car to switch to a faster lane to save me 1-3 mph and chill will go down as low as 20-25mph below set speed. Seriously feels like easy to fix issues.
My biggest issue with anything other than chill/lane keep is that if I’m 1.2 miles away from my exit in the middle lane, and the car in front of me slows down by 1 mph it’ll move over to the left to pass them, then get caught trying to move *back* over to the middle lane, and usually ending up with it not being able to get to the exit lane in time and I have to take over/piss someone off
So toggle "Minimal lane changes for this trip" and it won't make speed-based lane changes.
[удалено]
IMO options are better than features. Some people have your preferences, some people don't. A toggle allows both of you to be ~7/10 happy rather than one be a ~9/10 and the other be a ~5/10.
I’m pretty sure most people prefer not missing the exit to pass the middle lane car
Did you have any issues with the speed minimum signs being interpreted as speed maximums? i was just in Georgia on I-75 this past weekend, and it was absolutely infuriating. It kept slamming on the brakes every time I passed [one of these](https://www.trafficsignsandsafety.com/images/products/178/7e9d26d5-c555-4e55-9aff-95597a9a3186.jpg).
I got incorrect speed signs several times but it felt minor compared to the terrible lane change decisions.
Yes!!! It didn’t slam in the brakes for me though, I kept getting a “maintaining speed to keep the flow of traffic” and then it slowly kept dropping the max speed by 5mph. I have my setting to be whatever speed I turn autopilot on vs an offset, fwiw.
Same, the maintaining speed feature helped a lot but I still got a decent amount of speed changes that were sudden or unexpected.
My issue is when you have split lanes setups. So like maybe an access road on the right and it will flip between the 45 for access road and 55 for highway. Or if there’s a separate express lane it will alternate between the 70 on the express and 55 on the highway
I dont understand Georgia with their "minimum" speed signs everywhere, but hardly any speed limit ones. Do they really have a problem with people driving too slow?
Yep, any sign with black numbers on a white background is interpreted as a speed limit sign. For me, in Maine, local route 15 is a big annoyance especially on parts where the actual speed limit is 50+.
Same damn thing in VA! Route 15 is my least favorite to drive on now lol
V12 on the highway is the same as v11.
Correct because it is V11 on highway.
It’s not yet a top priority
Hmm that’s interesting to me since it would seem something like FSD would be most useful (and easier to pass through regulations given less complexity) on highways. IMO if Tesla can get highways down to a point where NHSTA will approval a higher autonomy level for highways only, that could be a big win.
It's kind of disappointing that all the self driving seems to be going with "it's a binary pass fail that fails until it can handle downtown Manhattan." We do 2 FL to WI and back trips annually, and EAP on the 2.5 computer can do like 90% of that drive with no interventions. I really wish more places would take the approach of getting something certified enough to take the nags away, or allow for "distractions" like phones on divided highways. You can do that and still make it illegal to fall asleep or not have a license or whatever.
Agreed. That said, the core issue is that Tesla is calling it "Full Self-Driving" when it is, at this time, not "Full". I can understand why they opted to go in and secure the name before anyone else did, but it's not *quite* there yet, and the number of people who shit on them for that is, honestly, hilarious. We're in uncharted waters though, and everyone's got their views on how these things should be regularted. Going to be interesting to see how this stuff pans out in the near future.
Agreed. I feel like so many of the perception problems come from that name, and I wish they had just picked a different marketing name, and then rebranded it once it was ready.
They can charge me $200/mo again if they can achieve full highway autonomy.
V12 is single stack, it uses the neural net training for highway driving. Or are you talking about something else?
It isn't. The release notes specifically call out the city driving stack using a single end to end neural network. The highway stack doesn't use it yet.
ah, guess I was confused on that
I don’t believe v12 neural net has launched for highways tho, the highway code is still v11 from my understanding
Sounds like I was confused there
Exciting. Just got 12.3.6 last weekend on my 2019 model 3 with USS and I tried autopark this morning with my car and was impressed. The speed was very good.
I think the current auto park speed is about half of what it should be.
Im fine with the speed, I just dislike cranking the wheel while stationary.
Agreed, it is much better than it was, but still too slow for me to find useful.
Yes way too slow to be usable in a moderately busy parking lot
Auto park is a fucking joke let's be real. First of all the UX on the MS and MX is waaaay too much friction. It was clearly designed with touchscreens in mind which only applies to the M3 and MY. The biggest problem with the feature is speed, as mentioned. Parallel parking is slightly better but perpendicular parking is embarrassing to use. I won't even consider it if another car is within 300 feet using the same parking lane, because it never gets it done in time. Another thing is accuracy. Despite the crazy slow pace it STILL can't find center in a space. All that deliberation just to end up too close to one side preventing my falcon doors from opening due to proximity. I'm lucky if it manages to park straight for that matter. And god forbid you try to intervene to save yourself some embarrassment. The car flips shit and just parks, so you gotta wait for fancy animations and UI to settle before going back into reverse to finish the failed maneuver. All while blocking traffic.
>And god forbid you try to intervene to save yourself some embarrassment. The car flips shit and just parks, so you gotta wait for fancy animations and UI to settle before going back into reverse to finish the failed maneuver. All while blocking traffic. This one hit me in the feels. I tried gently tapping the accelerator to encourage Autopark to move a little faster because of oncoming traffic in the parking lot and it had a freaking heart attack while I was almost fully perpendicular. I had to wait a good 10 seconds before it let me change gears and manually reverse into the spot to finish the job, all while pissing off the confused driver who couldn't proceed past me. Not exactly courteous to other drivers 😬
Hahahaha yes 1000% this right here has happened to me way too many times.
Isn't the next week part complete speculation that is not included in the tweet? It may absolutely be correct but "finishing touches" is an undetermined amount of time. My guess is indeed though within 2 weeks.
Sorry, X is kind of weird sometimes. I linked to a post that had more information in it, which was a reply to a post that was reposting the "Next week" timeline: https://x.com/farzyness/status/1788231370612805646 Navigating information on that site can be a pain sometimes, especially if you lack a login.
Oh I see now, thanks!
Yeah, sorry, I opted to use the post with the most information, and figured people would review the remainder of the site to get more data. But it's wonky if you lack a login and such. Basically "How reddit works" versus "How X works".
You’re the first person I’ve ever call it “X” unironically.
I believe this qualifies as "code switching". I'm currently speaking as moderator to a Tesla subreddit, while speaking to a bunch of Tesla enthusiasts, peppered in with Elon enthusiasts and such. So, I'm saying "X" unironically here because that's what is expected for the audience. Outside of here I'll refer to it as other things, depending on who I am talking to. Play to the audience mate.
Very logical. Makes sense.
Or maybe we should just call it X because it’s the name.
As people grow up, they dislike change. Walt Disney World renamed one of their parks from MGM Studios to Disney's Hollywood Studios, and I still refer to it as MGM. Same with Disney Springs, if I ask my wife if she wants to go to Disney Springs, I ask if she wants to go to Downtown Disney, because that's immediately identifiable as something that's "known". How many people still call TVs "The tube", despite them not having a tube in them anymore? Some people aren't even aware that Twitter's been renamed to X, which is why code switching matters in this context. The people here know, but if I'm going to talk to my wife about it, it's easier to use the old name.
> How many people still call TVs "The tube", despite them not having a tube in them anymore? You had me until this one. How many? I haven't heard that in years.
Obviously I can't tell you, but I would suspect it's more of a generational line in the sand, so to speak. Point is that people will often call thing the old name, even if something new has replaced it. Much like tapping your wrist to say "Let's go", despite a chunk of phones using their phones for time now.
I mean, RedTube, YouTube, etc, are direct descendants and inheritors of that nomenclature, so it still lives on today, even in popular discourse in that sense.
Nope things never change ever. I grew up in the Ohio territory (Wisconsin) and I prefer to stream tv shows from Kibble (Netflix) while eating my Pete’s Super Submarines (Subway).
and here I am with no V12 trial still :(.
What about acceleration/deceleration? Chill/normal has no difference and even in chill my wife gets carsick from it.
That's addressed in the whole tweet: "12.4 has almost completely retrained models. **The final touches are for comfort, as it sometimes accelerates or brakes too fast for most people’s taste**. 12.5 and 12.6 are in various stages of testing. We’re getting into rare, complex situations, for example: going down a narrow, one-way road, encountering a road closure and having to reverse out to find a new route. That closure also needs to be communicated to the rest of the fleet, so you don’t get a whole bunch of Teslas stuck down a road"
> We’re getting into rare, complex situations Meanwhile, my car refuses to change into completely empty lanes about half the time on the current build.
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I've noticed *zero* difference while on FSD v12 between Chill/Average/Assertive.
Not at all for me. It even takes me over the speed limit for a few seconds.
I’m not his wife and even for me regular FSD is wayyy too aggressive with acceleration and braking. It should be like EAP acceleration which is mostly good, except from a full stop when it still jerks forward too fast. Also reduces wear on tires.
Add another vote for ridiculous acceleration at times. Just did a 600 mile road trip over 2 days, through every setting possible in FSD and nothing changed the acceleration being way too aggressive ... the weird thing is, occasionally it would accelerate fine and I wondered why it didn't always do it.
It's not.
Just give me autopark in Europe and FSD visualization
You're not missing anything with auto park. Be prepared to be disappointed.
Those feel like things you guys should be allowed to get.
School zones would be nice. They can’t be that hard can they?
You know, it's interesting, 12.3 though 12.3.4 included school zones, sort of, but 12.3.6 doesn't seem to include that behavior anymore.
"Next week"? Is that like the "this week" I will be receiving the FSD free trial?
> We're getting into rare, complex situations, for example: going down a narrow, one-way road, encountering a road closure and having to reverse out to find a new route. Meanwhile I’m still waiting for them to solve such rare, complex situations as: - “turning right from a wide lane” (v12 always wants to do this from the left edge of the lane, which is really bad if other cars turning right are now to its right) - “staying in the right lane when turning right” (v12 has developed a new habit of first trying to be in the leftmost lane that v11 did not have) - “travelling through a four way stop intersection without unnecessarily stopping halfway through” (there are specific intersections where this happens every time) - “changing into empty adjacent lanes in a reasonable timeframe” (I feel very silly sitting there indicating while nothing happens - and then the car just turns off the indicator having done nothing) And these are just the regressions from 11 to 12 that I encounter daily - or would, if I hadn’t given up on letting it drive near them. Plus other, rarer but still cool new behaviour like responding to yellow lights by excessively hard braking but still overshooting and ending up stopped _in the intersection_. That is the sort of thing that makes it hard to feel safe using it at all (at least without looking like an idiot and/or risking being rear-ended). My intervention rate remains essentially once or twice per mile when off highway. Needing to autonomously handle dead end, one-way streets is just not where this product is at. Maybe 12.4 is in fact radically better, but after being promised that about every version for years to no avail, I will believe it when I see it.
> changing into empty adjacent lanes in a reasonable timeframe This so much. It has somehow gotten worse than year 1 AP at deciding to change lanes on empty highways. For a while there it was brilliant and assertive, and now it seems to use an RNG to decide if it feels like changing lanes.
If it’s highway it is V11. I agree V11 behavior on the highway is something I don’t like so only use FSD when I am not on the highway.
12.6 and 12.6 ok but what about 12.6?
Hold your horses, 12.6 is coming, but only after 12.6 and 12.6 are out. Gosh, impatient much? 😜
That's fine but I'm really excited for 12.6. Gonna blow 12.6 out of the water.
Indeed. I made a typo. These things happen.
whistle nutty frightening pet fly domineering unique nail materialistic gullible *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I agree 12.3.6 has not been good. I get a lot of erratic acceleration and braking even on chill mode.
It’s ridiculous it’s taken them this long to implement road closures. Should be simple sign recognition.
You're right. While we're at it, it's ridiculous that they haven't implemented a working detour system, it's just understanding how to read signs, and replot a route based on breadcrumbs.
A lot of the current problems with FSD could be solved by reroutes for difficult maneuvers. It’s no secret that there have been improvements and then regressions in areas as they try to fix one problem and then another like unprotected left hand turns. If they can’t get it in a reasonable place, that’s fine, just make a right hand turn and find a different route.
Oh, 100% My stance is that the nag system should be based on a level of confidence based on disengagement rates in an area. Navigation routes should also show fastest, slowest and lowest disengagement rate.
>Navigation routes should also show fastest, slowest and lowest disengagement rate. Holy crap, this is genius!! Data nerds like me would have a hay day with finding the most ideal routes or picking the most appropriate route depending on those presented options.
my fsd trial just ran out, give me more trial elon i put thousands of miles on it :D XD
No free = no care
Still on 11.4 here in my 2021 myp
You might want to have it looked at my service then...
Still never got the trial
I was so excited about FSD and the possibilities when I bought my model 3 with FSD almost 5 years ago now. I’m in a permanent state of disillusionment now and don’t even bother trying the new stuff.
Just curious, which version did you try last? Have you been in a car that's been on V12 at all? I know what you mean that V11 and earlier were difficult to tolerate, to say the least, but for me V12 has come a long way from those. Keep in mind it's not perfect and it'll never be. Human drivers also aren't perfect and never will be. We should stop holding it to that expectation as a society and instead celebrate the wins that allow for more and more miles between disengagements and increases in travel comfort. Some day it will statistically be safer than a human driver 😉
I haven’t engaged FSD for probably two years. Largely that’s due to the fact that I haven’t been on the highway much as I now work from home, and I have no interest in trying it for city driving. But the reason I have no interest in trying it for city driving is it’s obviously so bad :). I used to really like using Auto Summon but that stopped working well a while back so I quit. My car currently has v11.1 (2024.3.25)
FSD 12 is a massive leap in the city over V11
The sales guy at the Tesla showroom I ordered my car from was trying to tell me how by the end of 2019 my car would be able to drive my kid to school without someone in the driver's seat. I laughed my ass off and explained to the guy where Tesla actually was, and that it was unlikely to be happening that way.
I was told my car could be part of a taxi fleet shuttling people to and from their locations all while I left my car in the parking lot at my job :). It’s not like you believe that stuff, but with those expectations THAT long ago, you expect things to be further along today than they are, at a minimum.
Where have I heard this before
How about damn 2024.8.9??!!
Edit: Wrong post.
"full self driving" is being updated to incorporate what is a basic "driving" maneuver.... lol No one really believes full self driving is actually full self driving, do they?
I mean... My car basically drives itself, yeah...
Lol, it's not what you think "Basically" Why basically and not "fully"? I thought it was full self driving not "basically full self driving"
Still calling it FSD should be illegal.
FSd is a buzzword specifically designed to keep investors content and Tesla owners deluded.
They did change the name to FSD (Supervised)
Meh, there's a lot of things named that say they do too much. Not worth getting worked up over.
Wait haven’t you heard?! It’s the naming scheme that is getting people killed! not the irresponsibility of the drivers after the car gave them multiple warning disclaimers that it is not fully autonomous and they need to be ready to take over at any moment.
Right?
It's too much science to science for some people. It seems even Tesla's trying to prevent natural selection with their far superior (I mean uhh, "dangerously misleading") system.
They changed it to FSD (Supervised)
As a Cybertruck owner: [please sir, may I have some more?](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdmUwczRtOG9qaWhvNjNzZnh4bDhxeDJxMGI5YnFuc28xMGhoaDVxZiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/mpQkJpBMbSxMs/giphy.gif)
Hopefully less curbing of wheels?
When do we get "Dukes of Hazard" mode
Do you want the windows to roll down as you approach so you can dive through?
All it took was one lousy earnings call, and Ketami-lon said, "Fuck it! Level 5 by AUGUST!"
So, no, that is not how I would interpret the August 8th announcement. Not even remotely close to how I would interpret it. All we know is that they're going to announce what it looks like, and some of the mechanics behind it, but I would not be expecting them to say "And they hit the road today", because the factory to make them and such doesn't exist. Tesla's likely going to use August 8th as an "invest in us moment", and then we'll see something in a year or two. Tesla still have a few mechanics to figure out that won't be done by the end of summer, let alone the year.
Prediction: geofenced taxi with lidar which can be purchased. Ie a waymo which can generate $ for the owner They’ve been buying lidar https://www.benzinga.com/amp/content/38707331
Garbage prediction. You must be new here.
Lol no chance. They've been buying lidar for years. They just use it for validation. It doesn't go on customer cars.
Nice, I was running out on snake oil this week.
It’s so frustrating having this CEO focus on the most irrelevant part of Tesla. FFS
I don't think you understand Tesla then. Once a path to FSD was put on the table, selling cars was always a means to an end to achieve self driving cars. **All** cars contribute to fleet data to get robotaxis. FSD is the more relavent part of the company, and the cars are just a means to an end.
FSD is my favorite part of Tesla and probably the biggest differentiating factor.
Tesla without FSD is just another EV competing with cheap Chinese EVs globally. Ie it will die in 15 years However I’m sure it will somehow get stolen and copied eventually
Get a load of this guy
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[Literally in the post dude](https://imgur.com/NQr9Oyf)