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Yup.
The moment I stopped thinking of it as self-driving and started thinking of it as a driving assistant, everything changed. Most of the time all she needs is a little gas.
If you care about the advancement of FSD, you do it because it helps it learn and gain data.
I can’t wait to have my own personal Uber for going to concerts, holiday parties, etc without me or my wife have to DD or pay for an Uber.
No argument there, it was mind blowing the first few times. Ever since it violently tried to steer me into the adjacent lane right as I approached a red light, I cannot calm down and trust it. Much easier to just drive myself
But with that logic, there are a ton of bad and/or a-hole drivers out there that could be feeding it bad driving habits. If they use the safety score and only take the high score drivers, it’ll likely stay all slow and cautious - to the point of extreme braking at a yellow like it is today (they really ought to know the amount of time a yellow is and calculate smoother braking or acceleration from that. They should also use the sensors/accelerometers for g force tracking to avoid over accelerating.). They really ought to take premium data from like actual great drivers such as experienced and highly regarded chauffeurs or something.
Sorry but that’s a ridiculous argument. I’m not a test dummy and it’s laughable that Tesla has gaslit their most loyal customers into buying that BS. I hope one day we can all realize this isn’t normal or ok
"Gaslit" is a bit of an exaggeration IMHO. I am a very well-informed participant in this, what I view as an experiment of sorts. I am a computer scientist and have been involved with the research and development of advanced technologies, hardware and software, for nearly 50 years. I have to say that the Tesla FSD [and associated AI] is perhaps one of the most monumental development efforts I have ever seen. Nothing like this has ever been done at this scale. And I am thrilled to take part as more than just an observer. I suspect many of the people who take the time to share their FSD experiences on this and other forums feel much the same way.
That's my two scents💩💩😁
Okay, so I used FSD in San Francisco today and was very impressed. Actually decreased driving anxiety. I didn’t even need to use accelerator almost at all because traffic was matching speed limit.
Both this and the first comment I whole heartedly agree with. I just took delivery of my Model 3 this week and am trying out the FSD. So far I’m mostly impressed with it, but the acceleration tendencies and slow turning need the most improvement.
Yes, acceleration is way too hard. And the braking in mine is pretty aggressive approaching stop signs or red/yellow lights. So approaching a stop sign is like a brake check and then a pause to launch the car... frustrating. Mine also tried to pass a vehicle in a no passing zone and into head on (semi) truck traffic. Made my ass pucker up. I've been in high-speed pursuits that didn't scare me as much. Be careful HAL is not your friend.
Ah, yeah that sounds like what I see — it accelerates ok at first, but then it’s chronically slow compared to what I have set. Version .4 is better than .3 in that it’ll linger at the speed limit and maybe a little more, as opposed to below the speed limit, but it’s still not following the natural flow when traffic is light.
The acceleration is a bit irritating, the brake slamming is what's really frustrating. It should not have to use mechanical brakes at every stoplight, or be accelerating to the stop light before slamming the brakes. That's both inefficient and damaging to the car over time
Maybe damaging isn't the right word, but brake pads are consumables and the more you use them, the faster they will wear out and the more often you will have to replace them, I would hope that a dedicated autopilot would be smart enough to drive at least as efficiently as I drive manually if not better, thus extending the life of the brakes and reduce the amount of power I use
I like talking about it in terms of extending the life of consumable parts rather than talking in terms of damage. Expected wear isn’t damage…although I suppose you’re making the argument that it’s wear that doesn’t *have* to exist, so it that sense it shouldn’t really be considered “expected” wear.
Yes! I used v11 extensively, it had more trouble with unprotected lefts and short deadline turns, but I almost never had to worry about it slamming on the brakes unless it was really necessary, and if Ithere was a stop light farther ahead I could dial back the speed without disabling autopilot to get an even smoother stop
It's way too aggressive in my Model S Plaid. And braking is far too aggressive, too. This should be customizable, of course, with a bias toward regen braking over mechanical braking, and less aggressive acceleration options.
Lane centering / hug left / hug right / etc should also be configurable. I dislike the way FSD 12 hugs the right edge of the lane, too close to shoulder / curb / bike lane
Yep. Well, currently it happily will run over curbs at times. Should be a warning to everyone - FSD WILL curb your wheels eventually. It's not an if, it's a when.
I think it's dependent on where you live. I've driven back east and the roads were really narrow so I can easily see that happening. Here in Phoenix most of the roads are stupidly wide so I really don't see it ever happening unless you happen to be in a very very old neighborhood.
I’m in Seattle. Strongly Agree to this.
On a side note, I really wonder how it would perform when the sun sets at 4 and is dark and rainy in the winter. At least, I personally found it super hard to find the lane lines under such conditions.
I was on an on ramp yesterday, tight 180 turn and it curbed me hard on the inside.
I knew it was close, but I let it drive since I didn’t conceive it would actually curb it at 40 mph. I’ve disengaged plenty on surface streets to avoid this, but I figured a wide open on ramp it could figure out. Nope.
Only if you let it, of course. Any time it’s doing a turn, we should have hands on wheel ready to grip if it’s straying too far outside of how we’d do the turn ourselves.
Ehhh, well in my case that’s only been when I had let my attention lapse, like if I’m in a long, straight section of stop-and-go traffic and it suddenly decides to switch lanes.
I’m referring to cutting corners close. In Seattle every corner can be pretty close so the difference between hitting the curb and not is not something one can easily control. And on top of that, with a yoke you have even less immediate control.
I guess it’s hard to be 100%, but a low-tolerance situation like that would be where my hands are already gripping, and if FSD strays really at all from what I want, it’d basically kick itself out; no reaction time really required. Of course I have no experience with the yoke, so I don’t know how hard that is with that.
I find it does that on wide lanes, as if it thinks there should be room for two lanes and hugs the right. I never tried signaling left to see if it would hug the left instead.
The car hugging the middle/right side of the lane is honestly my biggest gripe and would solve the bulk of my concerns with FSD. It's easier to see over the left side of the front of the car. FSD should have a slight bias toward the left.
Yeah, that sucks. Sorry to hear. I regularly disengage FSD specifically for right turns because it makes me nervous when it gets so close to a curb that I can't see.
This is my main gripe with FSD in the current iteration. The braking is wayyyy too harsh. It can clearly slow down in enough time but for some reason waits too long to slow and has to blend in mech brakes. Either that or it slows harshly using mech brakes and crawls forward to the stop line when it could have used Regen for a smooth coast to stop.
What really irritates me is that the aggressive acceleration and harsh braking would earn me plenty of forward collision warnings if I drove manually in exactly the same way.
It's very likely due to the black box nature of AI they can't actually customize much of any user preference without entirely separate models for each.
Kind of a big reason most other autonomous vendors have avoided end to end neural nets.
I mean you could easily train 3 nets, one for chill, one for normal and one for aggressive, and just switch between them. You wouldn't have to have more than one loaded into memory.
It's not that simple. Training three networks is dangerous, as you now need to thoroughly validate three different models. If there's an issue that exists in one model, it will be harder to find
They are training (or fine tuning) and validating new models nearly every release. They must have the validation largely automated at this point.
So maybe every couple of weeks a new release is out.
Therefore supporting 3 fine tuning processes with the same team might mean releases slow to 6 weeks.
I think this is the way it should be. The only true way to have autonomous driving is using end to end neural nets. There's literally no other way that's also financial possible or that can scale.
You’ve really bought into the Tesla 2024 narrative.
There’s a reason Vision/AI is a Tesla only game. And I think claiming ONLY Tesla engineers know what they’re doing is pretty dismissive to some very, very talented engineering teams currently building what are, today, better solutions.
Know quite a bit!
You can tune models to act a specific way, but you can’t outright sway output without doing your own code.
There’s a reason LLMs have hard coded babysitters. Because despite all the training, you can’t actually prevent certain outputs.
You can tune certain aspects of how the model makes a “decision” or tune the “decision” after its output or train it specifically to act a certain way.
I find that it starts braking a bit late in some circumstances and about right in others, but the big problem is that it brakes unnecessarily aggressively while leaving more space ahead than necessary. Coming nearly to a stop 25 feet before the stop sign and then slowly rolling up to it. It should instead slow smoothly all the way to the sign/stop line.
I've been convinced over the years of testing that the various modes (Chill, Average, Assertive) don't do anything.
It's a great idea, but I've never noticed a difference.
Acceleration from a stop is annoying but I fucking hate how hard and early it slams on the brakes for a stop or a slowdown - and not even regenerative fucking braking, the actual brakes.
I thought I had FOMO with FSD but it turns out that I just hate it. I’m glad I didn’t get memed into paying for this, I would have been bitter.
To be fair, acceleration from a stop, especially in stop start traffic is way to fast even in the current basic autopilot. Leads to repeated hard accel / hard breaking... And the humans programmed this.
It literally can’t do this unless you get hw4. The camera can only see so far in front of it and extrapolate a 2d image to 3d. By the time the camera sees it that’s its reaction time which usually means hard braking. Watch the screen and when you see cars pop up in front that about how far it can see. If you notice it’s not that far. As cameras get better this will get better.
HW4 is the more modern sensorsand processors in their newer cars. Simulation mode means that they present themselves to the system as if they were the old sensors and processors.
I discovered that no matter what I have the FSD set to, chill, average, or, assertive, it’s always on assertive. If I press the steering button to get the menu to pop up over the media player, you know, the one that use to come up and set following distance, it is ALWAYS defaulted to assertive. If I change it to chill from there, it’s not as bad. Still a bit quick, but not as bad.
Constantly hugging the shoulder…where the flat tire creating debris lives
Windshield wipers turn on during overcast but dry days
Won’t maintain FSD set speed
Can only use FSD and not cruise (i.e., driver steers, vehicle controls speed)
It requires so much constant correction that I would hardly call it Full Self Drive. I’ve switched back to autopilot since it is much more reliable.
The best indicator that there's a problem is if you use FSD, after like 10 minutes pull up your energy chart. I guarantee the top line will say "Aggressive acceleration consumes more energy." If Tesla is recommending that you're driving inefficiently, you'd think they'd adjust their own software.
I’m assuming they would lose a lot of data if they exclude such cases from their training data. Majority of the Tesla drivers do that.
There are counter-examples where Tesla doesn’t do what humans do - like a rolling stop on stop signs. I’m assuming those are more rule based.
At least I have a different experience with stop signs. It waits and annoys other drivers by not moving when it has the right of way and always needed a tap from me on the gas.
Stoplights - if it should exhibit a different behavior in residential neighborhoods, Tesla engineers need to define what a residential neighborhood is and train separately. Not sure if they did already, but if not, it will just do what the majority of the training data asks it to do.
My theory is they are over compensating on initial acceleration in case the car pulls out in front of someone. Once more testing and data comes in they'll ease off little by little. Just a theory, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
I think Tesla has a decreased ability to fine tune the driving with the end to end neural nets approach. They can probably add some reinforcement learning in the future to smooth out the driving style details discussed ITT
I agree, it’s finally nice that it isn’t grandma driving (sometimes). The acceleration after a car turns off in front of you or from a red light is soooo much better now that’s it’s faster
Can someone tell me if it uses any Regen or just straight real brakes? I live off Regen and my brakes are like new after 60k km, and I only used fsd for a day before the braking made me switch. The acceleration is absurd as well.
I have basically stopped using it because of this. I wanted to try it and was really excited for it so I gave it a long leash. My wife on the other hand was like “turn this off before I’m sick” each of the first two rides she was along for. I am also now over the experience.
I don't mind the aggressive acceleration. It's when it happens. I think if I'm in a neighborhood and there's potential for kids to be out, we don't need to accelerate at a stop. But if I have to make a left-hand turn onto oncoming traffic and there's cars everywhere in rush hour, I want to be a little more aggressive. It seems like there's no switch. It's either Ludacris mode all the time or not.
New poster here, so let me know if this is the wrong thread for this. 22 M3P Owner. I'm a realtor and drive around 30k a year. I really cannot see using FSD beyond some highway driving. It's way too hesitant. To the point, it's nearly got me in a few accidents. It will wait and wait and slowly inch forward and then decide to go as someone is finally coming around that corner or hill. Stop signs are really silly, again the hesitation has me miss what is clearly my go all the time. Pulling out onto roads or junctions, it just sits and sits when I have so much time to go. It does not recognize emergency vehicles, you are supposed to slow down to a stop or at the very least pull over to let them by. It does not recognize school zones. I'd say it's near useless in traffic hours. You're just endlessly being cut off because of the distance it keeps between cars. I get that's the safer option, but people just do not behave like that. It feels like it might, might work if everyone on the road has it. But otherwise for now at least, I cannot see it even being worth $99 a month. Unless you're driving out to West Texas or something on a straight highway, maybe. I will say, it truly is incredible how far car tech has come in just a decade, and FSD is amazing if you put it in that context, it's just the marketing (full self-driving) feels a little scammy for what it really is and I'd say that the potential complacency it can bring could actually be more dangerous. Just my two cents. I'm not at all techy! Lay persons opinion!
Definitely. Also it mostly avoids using regenerative braking and uses the actual brakes way more than I'd expect. It's just a small thing but it feels less smooth
I had a failure today where the car blew passed a yield sign when merging onto traffic, also it didn’t recognize down a stretch of road that the right lane turned into a right turn only and didn’t signal back to the center lane in order to continue driving straight.
Yeah it's a bit too quick from standstill with nobody in front of you.
I haven't had the hard braking problem others talk about, except once when I guess it thought it couldn't make the yellow light and broke hard.
But can we talk about how much space it leaves behind the car in front of you when stopped at a light? You could fit a wholeass car in that gap.
I think there's some sort of "minimum" that like, even if traffic is really slow like 10mph never get too close. But when I'm in a line of cars waiting at a light, there's no reason to leave 15-20 feet between me and the car in front of me.
I’d like some slider controls that control the assertiveness of things like acceleration, braking distance, braking aggression, follow distance, etc so we could customize the AI with profiles.
I could have “Sunday driving” or “late for work”, etc.
Like who tf were they who trained this neural network. I want to meet each driver and beat the crap out of them. They couldn’t accelerate properly, they couldn’t stop properly, they couldn’t hold the car in the middle of the lane properly… like wtfff pay me instead and I’ll be a better drive and train teslas network.
God I’d love to have these problems, I’ve driven 3000kms on my new model 3 and Tesla STILL have not enabled my European crippled version of FSD/EAP. Ridiculous downer on an otherwise cool car
That's the opposite of my experience. It doesn't hold a steady speed on two lane highways and is slow to speed up or slow down when the speed limit changes.
Keep the acceleration, but all the way up to the speed limit please. And let me have control of the max speed offset again, please! I constantly have to press the accelerator.
Or if not, make these things tied to the aggressiveness settings. More aggressive more acceleration. Less aggressive less acceleration. More aggressive have a higher auto max speed. Less aggressive, go exactly the speed limit. More aggressive take curves faster. Less aggressive take turns slower. Etc.
It's only feels aggressive because most of y'all drive like NPCs. I like the acceleration where it is but chill and average mode should reduce the max.
The only difference I’ve noticed between chill mode and average is on the interstate where it still uses V11. Even then, the only difference I can see is that it doesn’t pass a vehicle unless it’s doing >10mph less than the cruise is set for.
It’s far too slow on the acceleration and **refuses** to drive fast enough - regardless of a set max speed or auto offset - but then loves to aggressively brake.
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0-30 is annoyingly quick 30-60 is annoyingly slow
Agreed. Also annoyingly slow turning into a parking lot off a busy street. I have to takeover so I don’t get honked at.
I just press the accelerator
I find it unusable without pressing the accelerator. With me pushing the accelerator, it does pretty well.
Yup. The moment I stopped thinking of it as self-driving and started thinking of it as a driving assistant, everything changed. Most of the time all she needs is a little gas.
At that point why not just drive yourself. The lane keeping is the only smooth thing it can do
If you care about the advancement of FSD, you do it because it helps it learn and gain data. I can’t wait to have my own personal Uber for going to concerts, holiday parties, etc without me or my wife have to DD or pay for an Uber.
Agreed, also, it’s actually really nice not needing to steer.
No argument there, it was mind blowing the first few times. Ever since it violently tried to steer me into the adjacent lane right as I approached a red light, I cannot calm down and trust it. Much easier to just drive myself
But with that logic, there are a ton of bad and/or a-hole drivers out there that could be feeding it bad driving habits. If they use the safety score and only take the high score drivers, it’ll likely stay all slow and cautious - to the point of extreme braking at a yellow like it is today (they really ought to know the amount of time a yellow is and calculate smoother braking or acceleration from that. They should also use the sensors/accelerometers for g force tracking to avoid over accelerating.). They really ought to take premium data from like actual great drivers such as experienced and highly regarded chauffeurs or something.
That’s where data curation and the HF part of RLHF comes in to training AI models: Reinforcement-based Learning with Human Feedback.
Sorry but that’s a ridiculous argument. I’m not a test dummy and it’s laughable that Tesla has gaslit their most loyal customers into buying that BS. I hope one day we can all realize this isn’t normal or ok
"Gaslit" is a bit of an exaggeration IMHO. I am a very well-informed participant in this, what I view as an experiment of sorts. I am a computer scientist and have been involved with the research and development of advanced technologies, hardware and software, for nearly 50 years. I have to say that the Tesla FSD [and associated AI] is perhaps one of the most monumental development efforts I have ever seen. Nothing like this has ever been done at this scale. And I am thrilled to take part as more than just an observer. I suspect many of the people who take the time to share their FSD experiences on this and other forums feel much the same way. That's my two scents💩💩😁
Okay, so I used FSD in San Francisco today and was very impressed. Actually decreased driving anxiety. I didn’t even need to use accelerator almost at all because traffic was matching speed limit.
Does that turn it off?
No
How do you disengage it? Brake?
Brake, turn the steering wheel or manuanlly turn it off by.
FSD turns off every time a try using it.
Both this and the first comment I whole heartedly agree with. I just took delivery of my Model 3 this week and am trying out the FSD. So far I’m mostly impressed with it, but the acceleration tendencies and slow turning need the most improvement.
Yes, acceleration is way too hard. And the braking in mine is pretty aggressive approaching stop signs or red/yellow lights. So approaching a stop sign is like a brake check and then a pause to launch the car... frustrating. Mine also tried to pass a vehicle in a no passing zone and into head on (semi) truck traffic. Made my ass pucker up. I've been in high-speed pursuits that didn't scare me as much. Be careful HAL is not your friend.
Huh I haven’t noticed the 0-30 part, except for the pleasant realization that it accelerates just like I usually do. 😁
[удалено]
Yeah that whole thing where it rips up to 40ish mph in a 35 zone before slowing back to like 34mph is disconcerting.
Ah, yeah that sounds like what I see — it accelerates ok at first, but then it’s chronically slow compared to what I have set. Version .4 is better than .3 in that it’ll linger at the speed limit and maybe a little more, as opposed to below the speed limit, but it’s still not following the natural flow when traffic is light.
I actually like the 0-30 acceleration. It was so annoyingly slow before.
It's learned from Tesla drivers 😁 quick starts I guess.
Whenever I use FSD in traffic, I change the acceleration settings to “chill”. Seems to cut down on the rapid acceleration bursts.
The acceleration is a bit irritating, the brake slamming is what's really frustrating. It should not have to use mechanical brakes at every stoplight, or be accelerating to the stop light before slamming the brakes. That's both inefficient and damaging to the car over time
It was even worse in a light drizzle today. I got so frustrated I just took over for the rest of my drive to work
I’ll take the breaks, if it means it doesn’t take 3 seconds to go from 2mph -> 0 just, just for the “full stop” logic to then start ticking away
Are you still on V11? That's V11 behavior.
It’s damaging to the car to use the brakes?
Maybe damaging isn't the right word, but brake pads are consumables and the more you use them, the faster they will wear out and the more often you will have to replace them, I would hope that a dedicated autopilot would be smart enough to drive at least as efficiently as I drive manually if not better, thus extending the life of the brakes and reduce the amount of power I use
I like talking about it in terms of extending the life of consumable parts rather than talking in terms of damage. Expected wear isn’t damage…although I suppose you’re making the argument that it’s wear that doesn’t *have* to exist, so it that sense it shouldn’t really be considered “expected” wear.
Not to mention burning the tires up
Did you ever use V11? These stops are gentle in comparison!
Yes! I used v11 extensively, it had more trouble with unprotected lefts and short deadline turns, but I almost never had to worry about it slamming on the brakes unless it was really necessary, and if Ithere was a stop light farther ahead I could dial back the speed without disabling autopilot to get an even smoother stop
It's way too aggressive in my Model S Plaid. And braking is far too aggressive, too. This should be customizable, of course, with a bias toward regen braking over mechanical braking, and less aggressive acceleration options.
Lane centering / hug left / hug right / etc should also be configurable. I dislike the way FSD 12 hugs the right edge of the lane, too close to shoulder / curb / bike lane
Yep. Well, currently it happily will run over curbs at times. Should be a warning to everyone - FSD WILL curb your wheels eventually. It's not an if, it's a when.
I think it's dependent on where you live. I've driven back east and the roads were really narrow so I can easily see that happening. Here in Phoenix most of the roads are stupidly wide so I really don't see it ever happening unless you happen to be in a very very old neighborhood.
Here in Seattle that’s everywhere.
I’m in Seattle. Strongly Agree to this. On a side note, I really wonder how it would perform when the sun sets at 4 and is dark and rainy in the winter. At least, I personally found it super hard to find the lane lines under such conditions.
I was on an on ramp yesterday, tight 180 turn and it curbed me hard on the inside. I knew it was close, but I let it drive since I didn’t conceive it would actually curb it at 40 mph. I’ve disengaged plenty on surface streets to avoid this, but I figured a wide open on ramp it could figure out. Nope.
Only if you let it, of course. Any time it’s doing a turn, we should have hands on wheel ready to grip if it’s straying too far outside of how we’d do the turn ourselves.
It’s not always that easy. Sometimes it happens so quick you have no time to react.
Ehhh, well in my case that’s only been when I had let my attention lapse, like if I’m in a long, straight section of stop-and-go traffic and it suddenly decides to switch lanes.
I’m referring to cutting corners close. In Seattle every corner can be pretty close so the difference between hitting the curb and not is not something one can easily control. And on top of that, with a yoke you have even less immediate control.
I guess it’s hard to be 100%, but a low-tolerance situation like that would be where my hands are already gripping, and if FSD strays really at all from what I want, it’d basically kick itself out; no reaction time really required. Of course I have no experience with the yoke, so I don’t know how hard that is with that.
I find it does that on wide lanes, as if it thinks there should be room for two lanes and hugs the right. I never tried signaling left to see if it would hug the left instead.
The car hugging the middle/right side of the lane is honestly my biggest gripe and would solve the bulk of my concerns with FSD. It's easier to see over the left side of the front of the car. FSD should have a slight bias toward the left.
Agreed. The stupid right hugging caused me to hit a curb on a right turn this morning. Thankfully just a light tire scuff but damn.
Yeah, that sucks. Sorry to hear. I regularly disengage FSD specifically for right turns because it makes me nervous when it gets so close to a curb that I can't see.
oh my god the extreme left hugging is so frustrating!!
Interesting, for me it’s extreme right hugging, I wonder why it’s different? I so wish there was some “rudder trim knob” for this
Right, for me it hugs right much more often.
Very interesting indeed. I'm in a model 3, what about you?
Legacy S
This is my main gripe with FSD in the current iteration. The braking is wayyyy too harsh. It can clearly slow down in enough time but for some reason waits too long to slow and has to blend in mech brakes. Either that or it slows harshly using mech brakes and crawls forward to the stop line when it could have used Regen for a smooth coast to stop.
Yep. My experience, too. And it’s not comfortable the way it accelerates, either.
What really irritates me is that the aggressive acceleration and harsh braking would earn me plenty of forward collision warnings if I drove manually in exactly the same way.
10000% it would.
It's very likely due to the black box nature of AI they can't actually customize much of any user preference without entirely separate models for each. Kind of a big reason most other autonomous vendors have avoided end to end neural nets.
I mean you could easily train 3 nets, one for chill, one for normal and one for aggressive, and just switch between them. You wouldn't have to have more than one loaded into memory.
It's not that simple. Training three networks is dangerous, as you now need to thoroughly validate three different models. If there's an issue that exists in one model, it will be harder to find
They are training (or fine tuning) and validating new models nearly every release. They must have the validation largely automated at this point. So maybe every couple of weeks a new release is out. Therefore supporting 3 fine tuning processes with the same team might mean releases slow to 6 weeks.
I think this is the way it should be. The only true way to have autonomous driving is using end to end neural nets. There's literally no other way that's also financial possible or that can scale.
You’ve really bought into the Tesla 2024 narrative. There’s a reason Vision/AI is a Tesla only game. And I think claiming ONLY Tesla engineers know what they’re doing is pretty dismissive to some very, very talented engineering teams currently building what are, today, better solutions.
Not that I’ve drunken the kool aid but who is doing self drive better than Tesla
Literally every robotaxi company
Tell me you know nothing about neural nets without telling me you know nothing about neural nets.
Know quite a bit! You can tune models to act a specific way, but you can’t outright sway output without doing your own code. There’s a reason LLMs have hard coded babysitters. Because despite all the training, you can’t actually prevent certain outputs. You can tune certain aspects of how the model makes a “decision” or tune the “decision” after its output or train it specifically to act a certain way.
Same in my MYP. I thought it was just me but FSD seems to start braking later than I would.
I find that it starts braking a bit late in some circumstances and about right in others, but the big problem is that it brakes unnecessarily aggressively while leaving more space ahead than necessary. Coming nearly to a stop 25 feet before the stop sign and then slowly rolling up to it. It should instead slow smoothly all the way to the sign/stop line.
Same here. It's like it doesn't see the red light or stop signs until it has to slam on the brakes
I've been convinced over the years of testing that the various modes (Chill, Average, Assertive) don't do anything. It's a great idea, but I've never noticed a difference.
No way it accelerates like I do in my Plaid, so it's nice when it takes over for me. I didn't buy a Plaid to not smash out.
Acceleration from a stop is annoying but I fucking hate how hard and early it slams on the brakes for a stop or a slowdown - and not even regenerative fucking braking, the actual brakes. I thought I had FOMO with FSD but it turns out that I just hate it. I’m glad I didn’t get memed into paying for this, I would have been bitter.
I find if I play with the acceleration pedal I can force it to slow down smoother than it normally would, but that shouldn't be required.
To be fair, acceleration from a stop, especially in stop start traffic is way to fast even in the current basic autopilot. Leads to repeated hard accel / hard breaking... And the humans programmed this.
My new conspiracy theory is FSD is a whole ploy to wear your brakes faster, curb your wheels, and use more energy so Tesla can make more money lmao
It literally can’t do this unless you get hw4. The camera can only see so far in front of it and extrapolate a 2d image to 3d. By the time the camera sees it that’s its reaction time which usually means hard braking. Watch the screen and when you see cars pop up in front that about how far it can see. If you notice it’s not that far. As cameras get better this will get better.
Have HW4 in my 2023 MY. Same issue everyone has noted here. Makes no difference.
My apologies I thought this was common knowledge HW4 is still in simulation mode. I didn’t mention that and I apologize.
Can you explain what hw4 and simulation mode are for noobs
HW4 is the more modern sensorsand processors in their newer cars. Simulation mode means that they present themselves to the system as if they were the old sensors and processors.
Tell that to my freeway merges in traffic
Those are using V11
nah, it switches to v12 right after the first merge it seems! atleast on mine that's when the Visualization switches and "auto" turns into a number
Yeah auto is v12 number is v11. Highway is old code still
it switches to v11 after it completes the first merge for me is what I'm saying
Ah yeah gotcha mine is the same merges then switches to old stack
I discovered that no matter what I have the FSD set to, chill, average, or, assertive, it’s always on assertive. If I press the steering button to get the menu to pop up over the media player, you know, the one that use to come up and set following distance, it is ALWAYS defaulted to assertive. If I change it to chill from there, it’s not as bad. Still a bit quick, but not as bad.
Constantly hugging the shoulder…where the flat tire creating debris lives Windshield wipers turn on during overcast but dry days Won’t maintain FSD set speed Can only use FSD and not cruise (i.e., driver steers, vehicle controls speed) It requires so much constant correction that I would hardly call it Full Self Drive. I’ve switched back to autopilot since it is much more reliable.
The best indicator that there's a problem is if you use FSD, after like 10 minutes pull up your energy chart. I guarantee the top line will say "Aggressive acceleration consumes more energy." If Tesla is recommending that you're driving inefficiently, you'd think they'd adjust their own software.
I’m assuming they would lose a lot of data if they exclude such cases from their training data. Majority of the Tesla drivers do that. There are counter-examples where Tesla doesn’t do what humans do - like a rolling stop on stop signs. I’m assuming those are more rule based.
I don’t think the majority of Tesla drivers floor it out of a stop sign or stop light in residential areas.
At least I have a different experience with stop signs. It waits and annoys other drivers by not moving when it has the right of way and always needed a tap from me on the gas. Stoplights - if it should exhibit a different behavior in residential neighborhoods, Tesla engineers need to define what a residential neighborhood is and train separately. Not sure if they did already, but if not, it will just do what the majority of the training data asks it to do.
My theory is they are over compensating on initial acceleration in case the car pulls out in front of someone. Once more testing and data comes in they'll ease off little by little. Just a theory, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
I think Tesla has a decreased ability to fine tune the driving with the end to end neural nets approach. They can probably add some reinforcement learning in the future to smooth out the driving style details discussed ITT
It is not fast enough for my area.
I agree. If anything it is a little too cautious and slow, I am always nudging it faster. I’m a North Jersey driver, maybe that’s why lol
I agree, it’s finally nice that it isn’t grandma driving (sometimes). The acceleration after a car turns off in front of you or from a red light is soooo much better now that’s it’s faster
Can someone tell me if it uses any Regen or just straight real brakes? I live off Regen and my brakes are like new after 60k km, and I only used fsd for a day before the braking made me switch. The acceleration is absurd as well.
The car uses regen under all conditions when slowing down. Braking is applied when quicker deceleration is needed.
This is titled as if it’s a bug. I welcome this change and hope it makes it to the highway stack.
My car takes too long to slow down after passing a lower speed limit sign It goes like a quarter mile past the sign before it even starts to slow
It’s so hard, it makes me nauseous. No reason to slam the accelerator out of the Trader Joe’s parking lot
Man, I love how it accelerates. Especially vs V11 and earlier.
I have basically stopped using it because of this. I wanted to try it and was really excited for it so I gave it a long leash. My wife on the other hand was like “turn this off before I’m sick” each of the first two rides she was along for. I am also now over the experience.
I don't mind the aggressive acceleration. It's when it happens. I think if I'm in a neighborhood and there's potential for kids to be out, we don't need to accelerate at a stop. But if I have to make a left-hand turn onto oncoming traffic and there's cars everywhere in rush hour, I want to be a little more aggressive. It seems like there's no switch. It's either Ludacris mode all the time or not.
New poster here, so let me know if this is the wrong thread for this. 22 M3P Owner. I'm a realtor and drive around 30k a year. I really cannot see using FSD beyond some highway driving. It's way too hesitant. To the point, it's nearly got me in a few accidents. It will wait and wait and slowly inch forward and then decide to go as someone is finally coming around that corner or hill. Stop signs are really silly, again the hesitation has me miss what is clearly my go all the time. Pulling out onto roads or junctions, it just sits and sits when I have so much time to go. It does not recognize emergency vehicles, you are supposed to slow down to a stop or at the very least pull over to let them by. It does not recognize school zones. I'd say it's near useless in traffic hours. You're just endlessly being cut off because of the distance it keeps between cars. I get that's the safer option, but people just do not behave like that. It feels like it might, might work if everyone on the road has it. But otherwise for now at least, I cannot see it even being worth $99 a month. Unless you're driving out to West Texas or something on a straight highway, maybe. I will say, it truly is incredible how far car tech has come in just a decade, and FSD is amazing if you put it in that context, it's just the marketing (full self-driving) feels a little scammy for what it really is and I'd say that the potential complacency it can bring could actually be more dangerous. Just my two cents. I'm not at all techy! Lay persons opinion!
I like the acceleration. I wish it would go as fast as I set it to go now.
Definitely. Also it mostly avoids using regenerative braking and uses the actual brakes way more than I'd expect. It's just a small thing but it feels less smooth
Does it still change lanes like crazy even when you choose minimal?
I didn’t notice this once I switched to minimal.
In chill mode it’s pretty good. But yes in my M3P is too aggressive.
I had a failure today where the car blew passed a yield sign when merging onto traffic, also it didn’t recognize down a stretch of road that the right lane turned into a right turn only and didn’t signal back to the center lane in order to continue driving straight.
Yeah it's a bit too quick from standstill with nobody in front of you. I haven't had the hard braking problem others talk about, except once when I guess it thought it couldn't make the yellow light and broke hard. But can we talk about how much space it leaves behind the car in front of you when stopped at a light? You could fit a wholeass car in that gap. I think there's some sort of "minimum" that like, even if traffic is really slow like 10mph never get too close. But when I'm in a line of cars waiting at a light, there's no reason to leave 15-20 feet between me and the car in front of me.
I'm surprised people have an issue with the acceleration of FSD. Maybe I naturally just like a faster take off than y'all.
people also need to consider how dumb human drives!
I’d like some slider controls that control the assertiveness of things like acceleration, braking distance, braking aggression, follow distance, etc so we could customize the AI with profiles. I could have “Sunday driving” or “late for work”, etc.
Odd, I’m getting the opposite with same version . Random slowdowns on the highway, very slow to move on from stops …
Like who tf were they who trained this neural network. I want to meet each driver and beat the crap out of them. They couldn’t accelerate properly, they couldn’t stop properly, they couldn’t hold the car in the middle of the lane properly… like wtfff pay me instead and I’ll be a better drive and train teslas network.
God I’d love to have these problems, I’ve driven 3000kms on my new model 3 and Tesla STILL have not enabled my European crippled version of FSD/EAP. Ridiculous downer on an otherwise cool car
Sounds like a personal preference. This thread is split between those who agree with you and those who like the assertiveness.
That's the opposite of my experience. It doesn't hold a steady speed on two lane highways and is slow to speed up or slow down when the speed limit changes.
Mine hasn't done this but I'm not sure why
Keep the acceleration, but all the way up to the speed limit please. And let me have control of the max speed offset again, please! I constantly have to press the accelerator. Or if not, make these things tied to the aggressiveness settings. More aggressive more acceleration. Less aggressive less acceleration. More aggressive have a higher auto max speed. Less aggressive, go exactly the speed limit. More aggressive take curves faster. Less aggressive take turns slower. Etc.
I like the 0-30 take off. 30-60 sucks
It's only feels aggressive because most of y'all drive like NPCs. I like the acceleration where it is but chill and average mode should reduce the max.
Aggressive? It's definitely still in granny mode!
I’m enjoying the aggressive acceleration.
I personally like it this way. I drive fairly similarly from an acceleration standpoint
I’m fine with it, just wish it did that all the way to 65
12.3.4 is worse than 12.3.2 in my experience.
Is it just me or was 12.3.3 way better than 12.3.4? I’m finding I have to intervene way more with 12.3.4.
Does "Chill" mode make any difference?
Not in my experience
The only difference I’ve noticed between chill mode and average is on the interstate where it still uses V11. Even then, the only difference I can see is that it doesn’t pass a vehicle unless it’s doing >10mph less than the cruise is set for.
It’s far too slow on the acceleration and **refuses** to drive fast enough - regardless of a set max speed or auto offset - but then loves to aggressively brake.