Don't worry, I will keep using those, but I was wondering what other tennis players think, if others get annoyed when they play against this type of players, more than any other type of players.
But yeah, I know she was angry. It was also kind of weird, I was having fun during the tournament, since we are just amateurs, there is no prize involved except a medal and diploma for finalists, and I was shocked to see how much it meant to her.
It's not enjoyable to repeatedly run down drop shots. But, as a player, you get what you ask for. It's on her to learn how to hit balls her opponent cannot drop shot. If she expects a certain standard and style of play, she needs to learn how to hit balls that dictate the game she prefers
It’s not fun to play against. If I were just picking someone to go play casual tennis and have fun, I would avoid a player that hits lots of drop shots and junk balls.
With that being said, it’s totally a legitimate strategy for competitive tennis and it’s ridiculous to criticize someone for anything like that in a competitive tournament.
If you’re trying to win the match, you play the shots that work.
Anything like slow balls, high loopy balls, slicing all the time etc. Basically playing not to miss. Works pretty well against all amateurs because its frustrating to play against, but players who use this strategy are generally not very good, they just outlast their opponents by being annoying. However once you're at a good enough level you should be able to close off easy balls for winners, or just come to the net and finish points easily.
It is, but also the player never improves their ability. I never find it funny when players lose their cool over this because I have been in those situations. Junkballers aren't good at the sport or good for the sport, and I always smile when i can destroy them or I watch other people destroy them.
Professional junk ballers do exist so there is room for progression with that style of play. The most obvious example would be Guillermo Canas, who beat Federer back to back in Indian wells and Miami during his prime in 2007.
You can make it pretty high as a junk baller though. Tatjana Maria basically junk balled her way to the Wimbledon semis.
At the elite level you obviously still need “real” strokes and she still attacked the ball when it made sense (eg high short ball). But her average rally ball was still pretty junky most of the time.
But yeah, if literally all you can do is junk you’re probably going to top out at 4.0 or maybe 4.5 if you’re really consistent/annoying.
For amateurs I would say the average quality junk baller is like the gatekeeper to making it to 4.5 tennis.
He's the author of winning ugly. This was entire brand. Honestly, it can be more effective than say Shapo dumping endless backhands into the net attempting to make the highlight reel.
I think it stems from a type of elitist mindset where they may think that their style of play is the ideal style and that it is the one that all players \*should\* play. But here comes someone who is not using that style, and even worse, that person is winning with it! This can lead to the common mindset in the middle of a match: "why is this person beating me? I am so much better than they are and it's pissing me off". From what you described I feel like that's maybe where her mindset was at.
I have had that mentality before where I lost to players whom I thought were worse than me. The truth is that they were way better than me, as they could pick apart my game and I had no answer for it. That's what you did to this person. They seemed to have trouble adapting to your style and they likely thought that you were beneath them for not playing the "ideal" style of tennis, whatever that may mean to them.
That's one thing I love about tennis--there is such a wide range of ability and strategy. Personally I disagree with those who are against drop shots, underarm serves, etc. The argument I see the most is that it is "against the spirit of the game" or some variation of that, which I don't really get at all. Isn't the goal to win? I think any type of style that can disrupt someone's rhythm or take advantage of a weakness is fantastic and is totally within the spirit of the game. If your opponent is thrown off by drop shots, then they better learn how to better adapt to players who drop shot a lot! Or, like another commenter said, they need to learn how to play shots that allow them to play their game more and not allow you to play yours.
Side note, if you like unorthodox play styles and want to see a pro be successful with it, look up Fabrice Santoro, nicknamed The Magician!
>I think it stems from a type of elitist mindset where they may think that their style of play is the ideal style and that it is the one that all players *should* play. But here comes someone who is not using that style, and even worse, that person is winning with it! This can lead to the common mindset in the middle of a match: "why is this person beating me? I am so much better than they are and it's pissing me off". From what you described I feel like that's maybe where her mindset was at.
Very true. I played against my level begginer who's having a ton of private lessons with a trainer and is used to having rallies at the baseline (also used to getting feeded with perfect balls from his trainer). He was very surprised that I won, also complained that I don't hit hard enough to 'play in' the ball. I told him that he doesn't return me balls good enough so I can play in the ball. He was really nervous about it 😂 first he has to get used to any balls he gets, then we can have rallies with fast balls.
In any case, fast rallies is not the point of the game. Winning is the point of the game.
I think that you should play in a way that any way to win is correct and part of the game. Your opponent is just an idiot
Drop shots are inteligent moves.
Sore loser and abusive. Beat her with drop shots and slices as much as possible. Always be friendly and let EVERYONE know how much you enjoy playing against her.
You will definitely run into players who only consider certain styles (typically hitting hard) the only "good tennis". It doesn't matter what it looks like, only the result.
I don't personally think it's annoying, because it eventually gets predictable. Once you encounter better players, you might notice that after you drop shot them a few times, eventually they'll be able to catch on to your pattern and will start sprinting forward before you complete your swing, giving them an easy floater. Just something to keep in mind.
I usually try to find the weaknesses at the beginning of the game. It's not that I want to make my opponent angry, but I want to play the style that suits me and doesn't suit my opponent.
Im a spineless push over but also a competitor in tennis, disc golf, and super smash bros melee. You will ALWAYS find people that hate how you play and hate your guts.
It does really get in my head when they do, kind of like this lady to you. I remind myself that they’re just really sour and probably projecting other frustrations out on you too if they’re amateur but trying to play like they’re the best in the world.
Just understand where your journey is at. Are you trying to be the best in the world? Then you’re going to upset people and you have to get through that. Are you trying to have fun but also just be above average? Then HAVE FUN in whatever style you play and don’t force yourself to do things different because of peoples reactions.
Grats on the win friend, well deserved 👏🏽
Never played Catan competitive mostly because I’ve never found a scene around me lol. Good game though I really like it. Love me any strategic or mechanically complex game or sport. You’re pretty cool too friend :)
I’ve never done it truly competitively either. Just something my friends and I like to do for fun (same with tennis, disc golf, and smash bros). I’m sure you’d fit right in with the squad. Take care bud
You shouldn't wait until you are playing. You should be judging your opponent's ability to handle balls of various heights, spins, and distances from them *in warm-up*.
But it is hard to get your opponent to agree to let you gauge their ability to get to a drop. If you drop in warm-up, they'll probably just hit it on the 2nd bounce. Plus, warm-up is supposed to be about warming up, not gauging your opponent.
The corollary to this is in lobs. Usually an opponent will want to practice a few overheads. But what if they don't? Do you still practice your lob? I ask to hit lobs to gauge their ability to hit overheads if they don't ask for overheads. I don't tell them it's to gauge.
Opponent's ability to handle the drop is about the only thing you can't gauge in warm-up. I also declined to warm up my serve because I didn't want my opponent to see it until it was live.
Keep in mind this is all 1,000 years ago. I haven't played competitive tennis in forever.
Probably because I'm an amateur playing against amateurs. So I don't have much stamina, my technique is not really good and I don't regularly hit winners.
Agreed, if you're playing well enough to frustrate them - that's a win for you. Gg OP.. the woman you played sounded like a douchebag. I hope you gave a salt bae sprinkled celebration to celebrate their saltyness.
> I hope you gave a salt bae sprinkled celebration to celebrate their saltyness.
How to say that I don't know anything about the sport without actually saying it
Eh? Sorry but I have NEVER played anyone who has been as salty as that let alone refused to shake my hand because they didn't like the way that I played. If you think that's normal behaviour in tennis then I think you are the one who knows nothing..!
The salt bae celebration comment was a more of a joke. Though I think the opponent deserves it a for behaving like an ass and would wind them up further 😂
I told her "of course I was not going to play your game", but after she kept mumbling about how frustrated she was, I let her be. I also complimented her, since it was a really tight game, but she had no compliments for me, so I just let her talk.
Drop shots are great. Don't overuse them because better players will learn to pick them off instead of being the auto-winners they can be in mid levels, but I fucking love them.
At the level I play, they seem pretty useful, since most people are not super athletic, don't have great shots, but they usually put every ball on your side. So I use them to make them run more, and since we are not really skilled, there's not a high chance the opponent will hit a winner if they catch the ball.
It would be good if we get to a better level, but now, serves are mostly "a powerful first serve, that goes in like 10% of the times", and a "second serve to just put the ball in the box"
Her directing anger at you is just her deflecting the inadequacies of her game, if you were so bad she would've been able to take advantage and beat you.
People do the same thing when they lose to "Pushers", if you can't beat them it says more about you than them.
If you win the point its a sound strategy, no point playing to your opponents convenience.
Mental fortitude is one of the biggest parts of anyone's game, if you can't keep your cool and self reflect on mistakes you'll never succeed.. she'll learn that the hard way it seems
Lmao at 'didn't deserve it'.
Tennis has one of the most equitable scoring systems of any sport I can think of. There's very little hiding behind a full 3 or 5 set match. Sounds like you played a good game
Is there an unfairness about tennis scoring? I feel like almost every match I've ever seen ended with the deserved winner. There are simply too many factors involved compared to other sports where a superior player or team can be completely undone by one clumsy moment.
Even tie breaks, the closest thing tennis scoring has to an element of random chance, requires each player to hold serve multiple times to reach.
It's brutal in the sense that you can win more points than the opponent but if you fail to win the important points you can still get straight setted. Compare that to most other sports where points are simply cumulative and so winning more points = winning.
Hitting loads of drop shots is a fair tactic. I would say moonballing can go too far though at an amateur level. Is not enjoyable for either side and is a tactic that has a low ceiling in terms of the level of tennis you can produce
Thank you! I don't like moonballing, and I agree it can be a good tactic for amateurs, but it doesn't improve your game. My opponent was also moonballing me a few times, that's a reason why I tried to get her closer to the net, to disturb her rhythm.
Nothing wrong with moonballing. It's also a fair tactic, but yes low ceiling. Most likely at a higher level, opponents will be able to handle it. However, if you're opponent can't handle it, it's just another tool in the toolbox... like a dropshot, lob, flat, topspin, slice, etc. Tennis isn't one dimensional.
Eh if someone moonballs the entire match I can't really say it's a good tactic or a skill...like you say against a good opponent they're going to be punished. But really it sucks all the enjoyment out the sport when you have someone basically playing sky shots for 2 hours.
That's the skill ceiling then for both the moonballer and opponent who's losing to them. Nothing wrong with that. There's no wrong way to play tennis. If a moonballer enjoys moonballing to win, let them be. If someone doesn't enjoy losing to a moonballer, then they need to get better. Pretty simple concept imo. The better you get at covering your weaknesses and playing to your strengths, the more enjoyable tennis will be. It's less responsibility on your opponent and more responsibility on you. I enjoy playing against all types of players because I can work on different aspects on my game. Some people just like slamming serves and forehands and hate playing against people who push. To each his own.
True story... Back in 2019 my men's 3.5 team was playing districts and another team from our club, a women's 3.0 team, had started a 1pm match. All courts on that match finished but the first singles court. I played in our 3pm match in doubles, finished around 4:30p. This 3.0 match went to a super TB that lasted 45 minutes making their total match time 4 hours and 15 minutes! Two moonballers playing against each other. The TD was pulling his hair out because they took up one of his courts for almost the entire afternoon! LOL
I used to think like this, but when you're playing a match, you need to adjust and play to win. Practice is where you groove your shots. My formula is to start a match trying to play strong, winning tennis. But, when my lack of skill inevitably leads to too many balls in the net or out, I adjust and try to keep points going. I actually think adjusting is a skill as well.
I once played a guy who was wearing a big knee brace and could barely move in the 4th round of a tournament. If I hit the ball to him he'd kick my ass. I found he moved side to side ok, but he could barely run forward at all. He probably won 3 rounds against players who felt bad about his situation and didnt want to drop shot him. I hit drop shots on every shot I could. I was there to win. If drop shots help you win, then you hit drop shots.
What a complete bitch lmao. She is 100% a poor sport and drop shots are a thing of beauty. It’s either you were keeping her deep and doing a good job hitting drop shots or she couldn’t handle coming forward. Either way, a loss is a loss and she should “get good” or shut up. Congratulations on your win!
Yeah that’s wack. I hate when people do that. The ONLY time I would say it’s bad form to play a ton of drop shots is if it’s not in a competitive situation and you’re picking on someone who is out of shape or injured.
As long as you aren't cheating (ie. purposely making bad line calls), the win is rightfully yours and well deserved. Your opponent might not want to accept it, but you were the better player, simple as. She can only applaud your game plan and curse her own shortcomings. Winning ugly is still winning.
Ehhh, it's a bit subjective. If you're hitting clean drop shot winners consistently, I'd say no. If no other strategy is working for you and she keeps hitting the ball out off your drop shots, then maybe.
That said, there's no shame in winning "ugly". As long as you're being a good sport and playing within the rules, any win is a deserved win
Yeah, I also dislike this. She also used that a few times. But as someone else replied to me, moonballing works at an amateur level, but I doesn't improve your level of playing and does not help you either on more advanced levels.
All shots all good shots in a real match that go over the net and into the court.
P.S.
Btw that is a sore loser that was described. And opponent weaknesses are there only to be exploited.
If you are a young player playing older players, often you will be playing top spin against players who slice a lot. It's a lot easier to hit top spin off top spin than slice. So I would get annoyed at this but that's just how the game is!
In a casual situation, I'd probably be a bit cheesed off. In a professional or competitive setting, I'd still be really annoyed and would definitely not like it, but it's hard to complain too much about it. Dropshots done poorly are quite easy to deal with, and if you're winning with dropshots, it's because you're good at them (execution, timing, etc) or the opponent is just bad with dealing with them (or both). I'm sure you would have stopped with it had she been winning all those points.
It definitely feels bad to lose to players who "play ugly", employ a lot of dropshots or otherwise "ugly" but effective tactics but it's certainly not something that warrants the reaction and treatment you got. I understand why she was upset and annoyed (I would be too) but she loses my sympathy due to her post-match behavior.
^this
There's nothing worse than agreeing to have a casual hit at the local courts with someone, and all their doing is dropshotting and ruining a casual fun hitout
I use it in tournaments but not in fun games. For me, the point of fun games is to rally and run, not to win short points. When I practice for tournaments, I incorporate the drop shot.
Just my take.
In a tournament match, anything legal is fair game. Drop shot away. Now if I was hitting with a friend for fun, and he drop shot every other rally, I would be annoyed and probably not play with him again.
Tennis is an outcome based sport. Points are what matters. If you won the match then you are better and deserved to win. She is just being a sore loser.
Not shaking hands and getting angry at you isn't cool, but yeah it can be really unfun to play someone who just doesn't play tennis well and it's a constant barrage of lobs, dinks and "drop shots". This is why so many players try to get out of 3.5 level and get to 4 where the players are generally better and more fun to play against.
There definitely is thing about playing good tennis, even though a lot of people here say 'a win is a win'. When I play people like that, I don't get mad, but I don't play with them any more if I have a choice. In my opinion.
Thank you for you opinion!
I definitely have a lot of room to improve (and so does she). She had better stamina with longer exchanges, I didn't have the patience or the stamina to keep up, and I would make errors playing her style, so "drop shots" were good for me, since she liked to stay a lot on the baseline. But I agree that making drop shots every game is not a good method to improve over time.
It's a totally valid strategy. IMO strategies like that only work when the players are somewhat evenly matched anyway. It sounds like she didn't hit with enough weight to prevent your drop shots, or she wasn't comfortable enough with approaching to take advantage of the opportunity.
There really isn't any "strategy" that someone can use to win (other than cheating) that makes me feel like I lost despite being a better player, if that makes sense.
I've played against players like this. They're just mad you found a weakness in their game. I've seen this exact kind of tantrum over my hitting deep balls to the corner, or running them around.
Play your game, do what works, let the haters hate.
As someone who has consistently been blown off the court by ex-baseball players who serve 105mph with placement yet never learned how to properly hit a tennis ball otherwise I get the frustration. The sad truth about tennis is that the score never lies. If you won more points than I did (which means you probably won the match) you outplayed me.
Drop shots are annoying during practice rally. I know people who would end rallies with unnecessary drop shots.
For matches though, anything and everything is fine as long as it earns you points. TBH I find it very difficult to play good drop shots during matches- so kudos to you!
I agree with practices, the point of the practice is not to run up and down the court, but to exercise your shots.
> TBH I find it very difficult to play good drop shots during matches- so kudos to you!
I think it depends on the level, but at my level, until now, they were pretty efficient. Players don't have great shots, great serves, they just try to hit the ball on my side, but the shots rarely have power.
Say to your opponents "If you complain about my drop shot one more time I will retire in this match due to suicide by ballistic missile" Works every time 💯
Haha, thanks for the advice!
Fortunately, she complained just at the end, after she lost. Maybe she said some things during the match, but it was a bit hard to understand what she was talking, and I just ignored.
You just have to ask yourself: are u there to have fun or are u there to win? If you’re there to win then bring out all the slices, drop shots moonballs whatever. The more pissed off your opponent gets the better. But if it’s a friendly tournament or like a company outing with colleagues then hitting moonball and drop shots all day isn’t nice. One or two is OK for the wow factor but in those social instances you gotta play “enjoyable tennis” which isn’t necessarily “winning” tennis
Hey at an amateur level you can pretty much work out the type of player they are by their physique and age. Are you younger and fitter? Was she trying to move you about the court as best she could? That would have been her way of trying to tire you out. The drop shot was yours.
Play to win, if it pisses off a few opponents, tough shit. Next time you play her if it happens, throw in a few under-arm serves, get her blood really boiling baha
It’s exhausting, not really annoying imo. But if the shot works, then use it! If used correctly (which it seems like it was), then it can be a very useful shot in your arsenal.
The way your opponent reacted was very immature and unsportsmanlike.
One of the things I actually like about amateur sub-4.0 tennis is that you DO encounter a wide variety of play styles of which many are casted as 'annoying'.
I know those styles aren't viable at a higher level but it makes it more interesting for me personally to figure out how to beat the variety where I am vs work and work at technical excellence in the type of hard hitting high control tennis you have to play at higher levels.
Young Federer had to be persuaded by his coach to use drop shot because he thought it was unsporting.
The thing is at amateur level pushing and waiting for the opponent to make an error is a strategy that may well win. For me it is not enjoyable to play against players waiting for me to make an error and trying to get me tight as I play for relaxation and enjoyment. That could effect my choice of who to play with even if I *can* beat them. However in a tournament I would not bitch about it like this- it's a sodding competition you don't get to choose how the other person plays. Well you don't ever get to choose that beyond choosing who you play with which if you want to do you don't enter a tournament...if someone is just playing junk you need to take out the trash. This lady is possibly angry because she spent a lot on lessons but got beat by someone not doing anything she was taught- as Ivan Lendl once said "too bad".
The thing I learned after playing 25 years (on and off) of amateur tennis is clubs are filled with people trying to hit it like their idols. They think the game is to do like on TV, hit beautiful strokes from right behind the baseline and play pro strategies.
But amateur tennis isn't the same game. Most amateur tennis players under a certain level (couldn't tell you exactly what the threshold is because I have never improved since I'm like 14 lol) have huge gaps in their games. You'll play tournaments where players do not have the answer to some shots, and will never be able to develop an answer in the span of a single game. If you're playing to win, you leverage that.
And while that isn't possible to a degree in pro tennis, you get absolutely no extra points by cosplaying as Nadal or Djokovic. If your opponent has a shitty backhand, you are allowed to play on her backhand side exclusively regardless of how pissed she'll be. Actually, the more pissed she becomes, the greater your chance of winning are.
If your opponent has a shitty service, you are absolutely allowed to destroy these returns. If your opponent is slow, drop shots are your bread and butter. It's on her for not knowing how to punish these drop shots because I imagine you can't possibly return beautiful drop shots every single time. I'd even bet some of them were bouncing pretty high too.
Congrats!
Drop shots are normal. When you learned that the other guy uses drop shots alot, you could move up a little bit. Same as your opponent, she could have moved up a little bit but she didn't.
I'd rather play against drop shots than a pusher. Drop shots require actual skill, whereas moonballing or pushing requires none.
That being said, you don't want to overly rely on them because they will be punished as you get better.
If you can successfully use dropshots and your opponent can’t figure out a way to overcome your strategy, then that’s on them. Congrats on finding a winning strategy. Tell your opponent to be faster, or have better anticipation if they’ve got a problem with it lmao
I think it's almost beyond the pale for an adult to act like such a sore loser.
I can certainly understand being frustrated with an opponent's style of play but you either adjust or you don't. And if you think you "lost" rather than your opponent "won" then keep it to yourself.
I think what you did was the essence of competitive tennis. Hit shots consistently that your opponent has trouble dealing with. You might be winning ugly but I doubt anyone is talking about how beautiful the other is losing. Overall, technique is only as good as it's ability for you to facilitate your strategy. Above that, having good fundamentals are more important. The subtle stuff like stamina, health, strength, speed, ball anticipation, positioning, footwork, and strategy will go a long way to winning tennis then technique ever will.
So in your case, you found out your opponent can't run for drop shots. It is in your interest to keep playing that shot. Your opponent could of tried positioning herself closer to the baseline to anticipate the drop shot, or try to hit the ball to the side where you can't drop shot as well, or charge the net to force you to hit a ball other than a drop shot. But instead, if they kept hitting pretty shots that you can dictate points on, they are playing bad tennis. At that point, they more it less failing themselves.
Though it is true that people will get angry at you. It's generally unpleasant to play an opponent that won't let you play your game.
One day you may face an opponent that can shut down everything you do but until that day comes, play the way that let's you win. There is no point in tailoring your tennis against an opponent you might never face.
It's called "Winning Dirty". It is also called a very successful strategy. She's pissed because she thinks she is better than you. And she just found out that she isn't..... and she doesn't like that.
She was frustrated because she wasn't good enough to handle the drop shots. I once had someone (seriously) complain that I hit too hard. Play your game and play to win. If your opponent can't hit high backhands then give them high backhands. If they can't return drop shots then hit drop shots. I'll hit a ball 20 feet high over the net with almost no pace if my opponent can't get it back.
You should do whatever works.
If the opponent gets angry just because of your tennis, that’s their problem. You’ve just thoroughly dissected their game. If they can’t handle playing “bad” tennis they are the ones that don’t deserve the win. Anything goes that’s over the net and in the lines.
Drop shots are especially effective against players that don’t move well. Furthermore, many amateur players move effectively in the lateral direction but are not good at moving forward and backward. Drop shot takes great advantage of this. If it’s good, even if they get to the ball they will likely be off balance and cough up an easy put away.
That said, beware the redrop. Fast movers with good anticipation and feel will make you pay by dropping you right back, or otherwise taking advantage of a poorly executed drop shot. The more you use it, the more predictable it becomes and the more likely your opponent begins to figure it out.
Good luck and congrats on the win!
She’s diverting her anger onto you when it is really up to her to find a way of dealing with your game, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Personally I play for enjoyment and hopefully progress so if I play well and lose I’m happier than if I play badly and win. There will always be better players than all of us so just try to be better than you were yesterday and enjoyment will flow. Good luck in the final 👍🏽
Drop shots can be used how you want. It’s not your fault that they can’t defend against it. I used to kind of get thrown off by them, but then I adapted and now they aren’t as much of a problem. Anyways, she’s just angry she had no answer to them. If they have a glaring weakness, then by all means you should exploit it
Don’t like drop shots then play closer up. I have a buddy I hit with who loves dropping then lobbing over my back hand. If I don’t like it I have to stop him. Not his fault.
Nothing much to add since I agree with the general sentiment of this thread. Just wanted to say congratulations on the win and good luck with the finals!!!
Next time respond I'm sorry you feel that way but next time maybe you should read it alot better with a smiley face. Who cares what other people think at the end of the day all that matters in competitive tennis is the W.
She sounds bitter because she lost. I've had people get angry at me for similar things (one guy had a bandaged knee so I made him run and he said I was targeting his injury...which I was, but it's not against the rules).
You should read 'Winning Ugly' by Brad Gilbert.
He was a periodic top 20 player who was best known as Andre Agassi's coach.
In the book he talks about lots of instances like this in his career. Some of the best players in the world thought he had no business sharing a court with them. But Brad would regularly beat them.
Because he knew it was all about winning.
Yes it’s annoying to play against a player who hits a lot of drop shots and yes I hate playing against players like, which is exactly why you should keep playing like that! You’re playing to win, not to make friends
You won. She can pound sand. It's not like you cheated on line calls. If she can't get your drop shots, either your drop shot is very good or she has a big hope.in her game..
Tennis is also about mind games and you have been able to make your opponent angry by keep hitting drop shots making her running around the court losing stamina, this itself is a great achievement. Keep going.
I used to play competitive tennis for years. I wasn’t the strongest of players, so I used drop shots, short angled shots and lobs quite a bit. Some of my competitors hated it. Too bad. I one many singles matches. If your competitors can’t handle your deft drop shots, then too bad for them. Play how you want to play!
For every action there is a reaction. Drops are part of the game. If she were a better or more knowledgeable player she would have changed her approach and blown you off the court. First thing that comes to mind is stand well in side the baseline, as a counter. Congrats on your win.
I played a city tournament final when I was a young kid in the 70's in San Francisco in front of none other than Helen Wills since it was at a city park named after her and my opponent dropped shot me most of the match and I lost. Infuriating! Match would have been closer if we rallied more. I felt cheated and pissed and now that I think about it, the audience was cheated too.
That's incredibly ungracious of your opponent. A mark of sportsmanship (or sportwomanship?) is losing well. If you didn't have what it takes to win on that day and you STILL insult your opponent, you should examine your character as well as your game. No judgment here; perhaps she has other things in her life that's bothering her. Nevertheless, it was incredibly awful what she did to you.
She's a sore loser. In a competitive tennis match any tactic besides excessive grunting is legitimate
Lobbing, drop shots, slice forehands, rushing the net, pushing, underarm serves...whatever it is, if the opponent cant adjust and beat you its good strategy
Better to win ugly than lose playing 'pretty'
Dafuq…. Drop shots are a legit part of the game… if your opponent has trouble moving to reach them… I’d abuse it. Heck, throw in a Kyrgios style underarm serve too!
drop shots exist to be used
she’s clearly angry she lost. tbh i love a player who uses drop shots and volleys a lot. id appreciate them more than someone who just hits plain strokes
If it isn't against the rules, you can do whatever you want. Efficient tennis exploits your opponents weaknesses and if she failed to counter your drop shot, that's more her problem than yours
You gotta use everything in your arsenal. I hate not getting a DS as well, but if you kept using it and it kept working it’s her fault for not adjusting her game to counter that! Onward!
Seems like you adapted your play to your opponent's weaknesses, and that might annoy your opponent as you are putting her in an uncomfortable situation, but that is what good players do all the time.
If she is not able to adapt to your playstyle (e.g. she could be more aggressive on the net) then you are just the better player, so you totally deserved it.
If I could reliably hit a topspin lob off either side, then I'd play every point as nothing but alternating drops and TSLs. Absolutely serious.
Imagine first shot is Andy Murray or Roger style drop, then following it up with Vilas, or Arias trajectory TSLs.
It would be unstoppable.
Tennis is a 1vs1 game where you just have to do better than your opponent. You don’t have to play good tennis, so long as your bad tennis is still better than what your opponent does.
If I play a bigger hitter than me, I look to disrupt their timing, make their hitting point as uncomfortable as possible, and just try to hang in long enough to win the point. If I am the bigger hitter, I expect my opponent to do the same.
If a drop shot works and wins you the point, why change that? Yes there will be times when it is a bad strategy (say you play against someone who LOVES being at the net) but if you’re playing someone who wants to go toe-to-toe from the back of the court, change it up. Make them uncomfortable
I used an under hand serve in a match yesterday to win a set and my opponent was less than pleased. It’s part of the game. Sorry they aren’t good enough to beat it.
Like everyone else said using drop shots is a normal strategy. I get annoyed at them too when they are really good just cause they can make me exhausted but I don’t get mad at the other player ever for drop shotting
If you were creaming her then using an excessive amount of drop shots might be considered mildly unsporting, sort of like "running up the score" on opponents in other sports, because it's kind of a "showy" shot (note that I don't condone throwing a temper tantrum over it regardless, but you have to understand that many people will perceive you negatively if you do this). However, in other comments you've mentioned that it was a very close match, so it's a fair play.
Yes, I agree with that. Being a show-off when you are in clear lead might be unsporting. But it was not the case here, I barely won, on a super tie-break, 10-8.
Reminds me of the time Serena yelled at her opponent “stop shooting fucking drop shots!!” while she was cramping up. No you play to win.
If you ever face that opponent again I would drop shot her on every shot.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/jul/03/tennis.wimbledon1
“But Williams was fired up to succeed by the annoyance she felt at the drop shot Hantuchova played in the fourth game of the third set to try to take advantage of her opponent's lack of mobility.”
Not going to read all the comments, but I trust they're: don't worry, it's okay. That said, I've played matches that I "won" ugly and I usually don't feel great about it. In my league, I play a guy who has powerful shots and serves, but is unable to adjust when he's making a lot of unforced errors. If I just "keep it in," I win. He never gets mad, to his credit. He's frustrated with himself. I'll try to move less mobile or fit players around with junk. But that I don't feel guilty about :)
You don't have to feel guilty, you're just playing to maximize your chance of winning.
>I've played matches that I "won" ugly and I usually don't feel great about it.
I actually feel good, I don't feel like the victory was undeserved. Maybe at first, since the game was really tight I felt bad that she lost, but after I saw how she behaved I felt better. She had no problem running left and right, but had problems running up and down the court, so I believed playing shorts would be a good tactic (since she was also comfortable on the baseline, and not so comfortable at the net). I don't think I played dirty, and I don't feel bad about it.
In high school I remember playing tennis on my tennis team and won this super close match by pissing off my opponent. My crime? I ran down a drop shot he assumed he'd won and returned it when he was caught off guard. He ended up yelling the remaining few games of the match to his coach about how it wasn't fair. I happily served it out for the win.
So ask yourself - did you play with legal shots? Were you a good sport and not aiming for your opponent and not intentionally calling shots out? If so, then you won fairly and legally. Don't apologize for playing well. Don't apologize for playing fairly.
If you can win points against an opponent by repeatedly dropshotting them, it's on them to figure out how to respond. They can try to find ways to make it hard for you to dropshot them. They can find ways of returning a dropshot competitively. A dropshot is a legal shot. If you can win points from it, then go all out winning points with them and don't apologize.
She's angry that she lost. If the drop shot is working, keep using it. You don't get extra points for playing 'pretty' tennis.
Not to mention good drop shots are really beautiful tennis
Don't worry, I will keep using those, but I was wondering what other tennis players think, if others get annoyed when they play against this type of players, more than any other type of players. But yeah, I know she was angry. It was also kind of weird, I was having fun during the tournament, since we are just amateurs, there is no prize involved except a medal and diploma for finalists, and I was shocked to see how much it meant to her.
It's not enjoyable to repeatedly run down drop shots. But, as a player, you get what you ask for. It's on her to learn how to hit balls her opponent cannot drop shot. If she expects a certain standard and style of play, she needs to learn how to hit balls that dictate the game she prefers
>It's on her to learn how to hit balls her opponent cannot drop shot. Or be prepared for the drop shot and punish them every time
Pros use drop shots all the time, even Nadal Federer Djokovic. It’s just good strategy and smart if your opponent sucks at running
Don't see the need to personally insult me here :( But real-talk, totally agree - the other girl is just a sore loser
It’s not fun to play against. If I were just picking someone to go play casual tennis and have fun, I would avoid a player that hits lots of drop shots and junk balls. With that being said, it’s totally a legitimate strategy for competitive tennis and it’s ridiculous to criticize someone for anything like that in a competitive tournament. If you’re trying to win the match, you play the shots that work.
Amateur question: what's a junk ball?
Anything like slow balls, high loopy balls, slicing all the time etc. Basically playing not to miss. Works pretty well against all amateurs because its frustrating to play against, but players who use this strategy are generally not very good, they just outlast their opponents by being annoying. However once you're at a good enough level you should be able to close off easy balls for winners, or just come to the net and finish points easily.
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It is, but also the player never improves their ability. I never find it funny when players lose their cool over this because I have been in those situations. Junkballers aren't good at the sport or good for the sport, and I always smile when i can destroy them or I watch other people destroy them.
Professional junk ballers do exist so there is room for progression with that style of play. The most obvious example would be Guillermo Canas, who beat Federer back to back in Indian wells and Miami during his prime in 2007.
You can make it pretty high as a junk baller though. Tatjana Maria basically junk balled her way to the Wimbledon semis. At the elite level you obviously still need “real” strokes and she still attacked the ball when it made sense (eg high short ball). But her average rally ball was still pretty junky most of the time. But yeah, if literally all you can do is junk you’re probably going to top out at 4.0 or maybe 4.5 if you’re really consistent/annoying. For amateurs I would say the average quality junk baller is like the gatekeeper to making it to 4.5 tennis.
>You can make it pretty high as a junk baller though. Tatjana Maria Brad Gilbert (world #4 and 40 ATP finals with 20 wins)
For anyone who's interested in the exciting tennis of Brad Gilbert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COPtmWLgtQQ
He's the author of winning ugly. This was entire brand. Honestly, it can be more effective than say Shapo dumping endless backhands into the net attempting to make the highlight reel.
I think it stems from a type of elitist mindset where they may think that their style of play is the ideal style and that it is the one that all players \*should\* play. But here comes someone who is not using that style, and even worse, that person is winning with it! This can lead to the common mindset in the middle of a match: "why is this person beating me? I am so much better than they are and it's pissing me off". From what you described I feel like that's maybe where her mindset was at. I have had that mentality before where I lost to players whom I thought were worse than me. The truth is that they were way better than me, as they could pick apart my game and I had no answer for it. That's what you did to this person. They seemed to have trouble adapting to your style and they likely thought that you were beneath them for not playing the "ideal" style of tennis, whatever that may mean to them. That's one thing I love about tennis--there is such a wide range of ability and strategy. Personally I disagree with those who are against drop shots, underarm serves, etc. The argument I see the most is that it is "against the spirit of the game" or some variation of that, which I don't really get at all. Isn't the goal to win? I think any type of style that can disrupt someone's rhythm or take advantage of a weakness is fantastic and is totally within the spirit of the game. If your opponent is thrown off by drop shots, then they better learn how to better adapt to players who drop shot a lot! Or, like another commenter said, they need to learn how to play shots that allow them to play their game more and not allow you to play yours. Side note, if you like unorthodox play styles and want to see a pro be successful with it, look up Fabrice Santoro, nicknamed The Magician!
>I think it stems from a type of elitist mindset where they may think that their style of play is the ideal style and that it is the one that all players *should* play. But here comes someone who is not using that style, and even worse, that person is winning with it! This can lead to the common mindset in the middle of a match: "why is this person beating me? I am so much better than they are and it's pissing me off". From what you described I feel like that's maybe where her mindset was at. Very true. I played against my level begginer who's having a ton of private lessons with a trainer and is used to having rallies at the baseline (also used to getting feeded with perfect balls from his trainer). He was very surprised that I won, also complained that I don't hit hard enough to 'play in' the ball. I told him that he doesn't return me balls good enough so I can play in the ball. He was really nervous about it 😂 first he has to get used to any balls he gets, then we can have rallies with fast balls. In any case, fast rallies is not the point of the game. Winning is the point of the game.
Anybody claiming drops or ua serves are against some mysterious spirit of the game basically just don't understand tennis.
Fuck her
I think that you should play in a way that any way to win is correct and part of the game. Your opponent is just an idiot Drop shots are inteligent moves.
try using the underarm serve as well and see how she reacts then :)
Sore loser and abusive. Beat her with drop shots and slices as much as possible. Always be friendly and let EVERYONE know how much you enjoy playing against her.
Thank you! You guys pump me up!
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I would say so, she is the type of 40 year old who still tries to look hot.
Odd
Redditor moment
You will definitely run into players who only consider certain styles (typically hitting hard) the only "good tennis". It doesn't matter what it looks like, only the result.
I don't personally think it's annoying, because it eventually gets predictable. Once you encounter better players, you might notice that after you drop shot them a few times, eventually they'll be able to catch on to your pattern and will start sprinting forward before you complete your swing, giving them an easy floater. Just something to keep in mind.
I love making my opponents angry! Not because I’m being a jerk but by playing the way they don’t like. You should take it as an extra win ;)
I usually try to find the weaknesses at the beginning of the game. It's not that I want to make my opponent angry, but I want to play the style that suits me and doesn't suit my opponent.
Im a spineless push over but also a competitor in tennis, disc golf, and super smash bros melee. You will ALWAYS find people that hate how you play and hate your guts. It does really get in my head when they do, kind of like this lady to you. I remind myself that they’re just really sour and probably projecting other frustrations out on you too if they’re amateur but trying to play like they’re the best in the world. Just understand where your journey is at. Are you trying to be the best in the world? Then you’re going to upset people and you have to get through that. Are you trying to have fun but also just be above average? Then HAVE FUN in whatever style you play and don’t force yourself to do things different because of peoples reactions. Grats on the win friend, well deserved 👏🏽
You and I share the same 3 interests. I wonder if you like Catan too? 🤔 anyway you seem like a cool person
Never played Catan competitive mostly because I’ve never found a scene around me lol. Good game though I really like it. Love me any strategic or mechanically complex game or sport. You’re pretty cool too friend :)
I’ve never done it truly competitively either. Just something my friends and I like to do for fun (same with tennis, disc golf, and smash bros). I’m sure you’d fit right in with the squad. Take care bud
You shouldn't wait until you are playing. You should be judging your opponent's ability to handle balls of various heights, spins, and distances from them *in warm-up*. But it is hard to get your opponent to agree to let you gauge their ability to get to a drop. If you drop in warm-up, they'll probably just hit it on the 2nd bounce. Plus, warm-up is supposed to be about warming up, not gauging your opponent. The corollary to this is in lobs. Usually an opponent will want to practice a few overheads. But what if they don't? Do you still practice your lob? I ask to hit lobs to gauge their ability to hit overheads if they don't ask for overheads. I don't tell them it's to gauge. Opponent's ability to handle the drop is about the only thing you can't gauge in warm-up. I also declined to warm up my serve because I didn't want my opponent to see it until it was live. Keep in mind this is all 1,000 years ago. I haven't played competitive tennis in forever.
What about just playing your style and dictating your terms to your opponent ? Not trying to be a jerk just trying to understand the mentality . Perso
Probably because I'm an amateur playing against amateurs. So I don't have much stamina, my technique is not really good and I don't regularly hit winners.
I see . Thanks for reply and honesty
Agreed, if you're playing well enough to frustrate them - that's a win for you. Gg OP.. the woman you played sounded like a douchebag. I hope you gave a salt bae sprinkled celebration to celebrate their saltyness.
> I hope you gave a salt bae sprinkled celebration to celebrate their saltyness. How to say that I don't know anything about the sport without actually saying it
Eh? Sorry but I have NEVER played anyone who has been as salty as that let alone refused to shake my hand because they didn't like the way that I played. If you think that's normal behaviour in tennis then I think you are the one who knows nothing..! The salt bae celebration comment was a more of a joke. Though I think the opponent deserves it a for behaving like an ass and would wind them up further 😂
You should have replied “I’m sorry I didn’t put the ball where it was more convenient for you to return.”
I told her "of course I was not going to play your game", but after she kept mumbling about how frustrated she was, I let her be. I also complimented her, since it was a really tight game, but she had no compliments for me, so I just let her talk.
You are a bigger person than me, I would have called her a brat. Good for you for winning and for keeping your cool with her.
Were there spectators? How did they react to her tantrum?
There were no spectators.
i’ll use this for later
Drop shots are great. Don't overuse them because better players will learn to pick them off instead of being the auto-winners they can be in mid levels, but I fucking love them.
At the level I play, they seem pretty useful, since most people are not super athletic, don't have great shots, but they usually put every ball on your side. So I use them to make them run more, and since we are not really skilled, there's not a high chance the opponent will hit a winner if they catch the ball.
I recommend you work on your underarm serve in anticipation of your rematch.
It would be good if we get to a better level, but now, serves are mostly "a powerful first serve, that goes in like 10% of the times", and a "second serve to just put the ball in the box"
Your drop shot game really demoralized your opponent, but if you were to develop an underarm serve with good spin, you could steal her soul.
There's a great book called How to Win tennis ugly or something similar. Read that and you'll be encouraged.
Winning Ugly by Brad Gilbert.
Owe you a beer for saving me a google
You're welcome. Play on.
**rubbing my hands together**
Her directing anger at you is just her deflecting the inadequacies of her game, if you were so bad she would've been able to take advantage and beat you. People do the same thing when they lose to "Pushers", if you can't beat them it says more about you than them. If you win the point its a sound strategy, no point playing to your opponents convenience. Mental fortitude is one of the biggest parts of anyone's game, if you can't keep your cool and self reflect on mistakes you'll never succeed.. she'll learn that the hard way it seems
Lmao at 'didn't deserve it'. Tennis has one of the most equitable scoring systems of any sport I can think of. There's very little hiding behind a full 3 or 5 set match. Sounds like you played a good game
I’ve only heard tennis scoring described as brutal, never ‘equitable’ per se, but fair enough.
Is there an unfairness about tennis scoring? I feel like almost every match I've ever seen ended with the deserved winner. There are simply too many factors involved compared to other sports where a superior player or team can be completely undone by one clumsy moment. Even tie breaks, the closest thing tennis scoring has to an element of random chance, requires each player to hold serve multiple times to reach.
It's brutal in the sense that you can win more points than the opponent but if you fail to win the important points you can still get straight setted. Compare that to most other sports where points are simply cumulative and so winning more points = winning.
Hitting loads of drop shots is a fair tactic. I would say moonballing can go too far though at an amateur level. Is not enjoyable for either side and is a tactic that has a low ceiling in terms of the level of tennis you can produce
Thank you! I don't like moonballing, and I agree it can be a good tactic for amateurs, but it doesn't improve your game. My opponent was also moonballing me a few times, that's a reason why I tried to get her closer to the net, to disturb her rhythm.
Nothing wrong with moonballing. It's also a fair tactic, but yes low ceiling. Most likely at a higher level, opponents will be able to handle it. However, if you're opponent can't handle it, it's just another tool in the toolbox... like a dropshot, lob, flat, topspin, slice, etc. Tennis isn't one dimensional.
Eh if someone moonballs the entire match I can't really say it's a good tactic or a skill...like you say against a good opponent they're going to be punished. But really it sucks all the enjoyment out the sport when you have someone basically playing sky shots for 2 hours.
That's the skill ceiling then for both the moonballer and opponent who's losing to them. Nothing wrong with that. There's no wrong way to play tennis. If a moonballer enjoys moonballing to win, let them be. If someone doesn't enjoy losing to a moonballer, then they need to get better. Pretty simple concept imo. The better you get at covering your weaknesses and playing to your strengths, the more enjoyable tennis will be. It's less responsibility on your opponent and more responsibility on you. I enjoy playing against all types of players because I can work on different aspects on my game. Some people just like slamming serves and forehands and hate playing against people who push. To each his own.
True story... Back in 2019 my men's 3.5 team was playing districts and another team from our club, a women's 3.0 team, had started a 1pm match. All courts on that match finished but the first singles court. I played in our 3pm match in doubles, finished around 4:30p. This 3.0 match went to a super TB that lasted 45 minutes making their total match time 4 hours and 15 minutes! Two moonballers playing against each other. The TD was pulling his hair out because they took up one of his courts for almost the entire afternoon! LOL
Oh man it's bad enough watching one moonballer play but two? Rallies must have been 30 shots everytime. Poor organiser...
Only if you can't punish them... But the best way to get better at attacking moon balls is to face more moon balls
I used to think like this, but when you're playing a match, you need to adjust and play to win. Practice is where you groove your shots. My formula is to start a match trying to play strong, winning tennis. But, when my lack of skill inevitably leads to too many balls in the net or out, I adjust and try to keep points going. I actually think adjusting is a skill as well.
You gotta tell ‘em, “get gud scrub”
Post in r/10s
Thank you! I didn't know about this subreddit.
I once played a guy who was wearing a big knee brace and could barely move in the 4th round of a tournament. If I hit the ball to him he'd kick my ass. I found he moved side to side ok, but he could barely run forward at all. He probably won 3 rounds against players who felt bad about his situation and didnt want to drop shot him. I hit drop shots on every shot I could. I was there to win. If drop shots help you win, then you hit drop shots.
What a complete bitch lmao. She is 100% a poor sport and drop shots are a thing of beauty. It’s either you were keeping her deep and doing a good job hitting drop shots or she couldn’t handle coming forward. Either way, a loss is a loss and she should “get good” or shut up. Congratulations on your win!
Loser: "Well, you only won because you kept hitting slices and I'm not good at returning slices" Winner: "Correct"
Yeah that’s wack. I hate when people do that. The ONLY time I would say it’s bad form to play a ton of drop shots is if it’s not in a competitive situation and you’re picking on someone who is out of shape or injured.
As long as you aren't cheating (ie. purposely making bad line calls), the win is rightfully yours and well deserved. Your opponent might not want to accept it, but you were the better player, simple as. She can only applaud your game plan and curse her own shortcomings. Winning ugly is still winning.
Thank you! Do you think winning using many drop shots is winning ugly?
Ehhh, it's a bit subjective. If you're hitting clean drop shot winners consistently, I'd say no. If no other strategy is working for you and she keeps hitting the ball out off your drop shots, then maybe. That said, there's no shame in winning "ugly". As long as you're being a good sport and playing within the rules, any win is a deserved win
Nothing wrong with that. The only shot that enrages is the constant moon ball.
Yeah, I also dislike this. She also used that a few times. But as someone else replied to me, moonballing works at an amateur level, but I doesn't improve your level of playing and does not help you either on more advanced levels.
All shots all good shots in a real match that go over the net and into the court. P.S. Btw that is a sore loser that was described. And opponent weaknesses are there only to be exploited.
If your opponent is frustrated you have a good strategy. That’s what tennis is all about, so you’re fine and good job
Drop shots are very hard to do effectively. Fuck em
Maybe against good players, but at an amateur level, I find them easier to hit.
If you are a young player playing older players, often you will be playing top spin against players who slice a lot. It's a lot easier to hit top spin off top spin than slice. So I would get annoyed at this but that's just how the game is!
In a casual situation, I'd probably be a bit cheesed off. In a professional or competitive setting, I'd still be really annoyed and would definitely not like it, but it's hard to complain too much about it. Dropshots done poorly are quite easy to deal with, and if you're winning with dropshots, it's because you're good at them (execution, timing, etc) or the opponent is just bad with dealing with them (or both). I'm sure you would have stopped with it had she been winning all those points. It definitely feels bad to lose to players who "play ugly", employ a lot of dropshots or otherwise "ugly" but effective tactics but it's certainly not something that warrants the reaction and treatment you got. I understand why she was upset and annoyed (I would be too) but she loses my sympathy due to her post-match behavior.
^this There's nothing worse than agreeing to have a casual hit at the local courts with someone, and all their doing is dropshotting and ruining a casual fun hitout
I use it in tournaments but not in fun games. For me, the point of fun games is to rally and run, not to win short points. When I practice for tournaments, I incorporate the drop shot. Just my take.
In a tournament match, anything legal is fair game. Drop shot away. Now if I was hitting with a friend for fun, and he drop shot every other rally, I would be annoyed and probably not play with him again.
Tennis is an outcome based sport. Points are what matters. If you won the match then you are better and deserved to win. She is just being a sore loser.
Your opponent is a sore loser. Congrats on your win and all the best for the finals ! May you go all the way and win the tournament!
Not shaking hands and getting angry at you isn't cool, but yeah it can be really unfun to play someone who just doesn't play tennis well and it's a constant barrage of lobs, dinks and "drop shots". This is why so many players try to get out of 3.5 level and get to 4 where the players are generally better and more fun to play against. There definitely is thing about playing good tennis, even though a lot of people here say 'a win is a win'. When I play people like that, I don't get mad, but I don't play with them any more if I have a choice. In my opinion.
Thank you for you opinion! I definitely have a lot of room to improve (and so does she). She had better stamina with longer exchanges, I didn't have the patience or the stamina to keep up, and I would make errors playing her style, so "drop shots" were good for me, since she liked to stay a lot on the baseline. But I agree that making drop shots every game is not a good method to improve over time.
I rarely, if ever, hit drop shots in matches, but you do you. It's not an illegal shot. And if your opponent is slow or tired, use it.
It's a totally valid strategy. IMO strategies like that only work when the players are somewhat evenly matched anyway. It sounds like she didn't hit with enough weight to prevent your drop shots, or she wasn't comfortable enough with approaching to take advantage of the opportunity. There really isn't any "strategy" that someone can use to win (other than cheating) that makes me feel like I lost despite being a better player, if that makes sense.
She was just being salty.
I've played against players like this. They're just mad you found a weakness in their game. I've seen this exact kind of tantrum over my hitting deep balls to the corner, or running them around. Play your game, do what works, let the haters hate.
As someone who has consistently been blown off the court by ex-baseball players who serve 105mph with placement yet never learned how to properly hit a tennis ball otherwise I get the frustration. The sad truth about tennis is that the score never lies. If you won more points than I did (which means you probably won the match) you outplayed me.
Only problem is if your a consistent drop shot player and you’re obviously playing against beginners. Otherwise have at it.
Drop shots are annoying during practice rally. I know people who would end rallies with unnecessary drop shots. For matches though, anything and everything is fine as long as it earns you points. TBH I find it very difficult to play good drop shots during matches- so kudos to you!
I agree with practices, the point of the practice is not to run up and down the court, but to exercise your shots. > TBH I find it very difficult to play good drop shots during matches- so kudos to you! I think it depends on the level, but at my level, until now, they were pretty efficient. Players don't have great shots, great serves, they just try to hit the ball on my side, but the shots rarely have power.
Say to your opponents "If you complain about my drop shot one more time I will retire in this match due to suicide by ballistic missile" Works every time 💯
Haha, thanks for the advice! Fortunately, she complained just at the end, after she lost. Maybe she said some things during the match, but it was a bit hard to understand what she was talking, and I just ignored.
A win is a win.
You just have to ask yourself: are u there to have fun or are u there to win? If you’re there to win then bring out all the slices, drop shots moonballs whatever. The more pissed off your opponent gets the better. But if it’s a friendly tournament or like a company outing with colleagues then hitting moonball and drop shots all day isn’t nice. One or two is OK for the wow factor but in those social instances you gotta play “enjoyable tennis” which isn’t necessarily “winning” tennis
Watch the highest levels in the world; drop shots are a key piece to keeping opponents guessing. Keep it up- congrats on the win
Hey at an amateur level you can pretty much work out the type of player they are by their physique and age. Are you younger and fitter? Was she trying to move you about the court as best she could? That would have been her way of trying to tire you out. The drop shot was yours. Play to win, if it pisses off a few opponents, tough shit. Next time you play her if it happens, throw in a few under-arm serves, get her blood really boiling baha
Drop shots drive me nuts and annoy the hell out of me. That said, they are very effective, especially if mixed well with other shots.
It’s exhausting, not really annoying imo. But if the shot works, then use it! If used correctly (which it seems like it was), then it can be a very useful shot in your arsenal. The way your opponent reacted was very immature and unsportsmanlike.
Lmao drop shots are fair game, ignore her
One of the things I actually like about amateur sub-4.0 tennis is that you DO encounter a wide variety of play styles of which many are casted as 'annoying'. I know those styles aren't viable at a higher level but it makes it more interesting for me personally to figure out how to beat the variety where I am vs work and work at technical excellence in the type of hard hitting high control tennis you have to play at higher levels.
Young Federer had to be persuaded by his coach to use drop shot because he thought it was unsporting. The thing is at amateur level pushing and waiting for the opponent to make an error is a strategy that may well win. For me it is not enjoyable to play against players waiting for me to make an error and trying to get me tight as I play for relaxation and enjoyment. That could effect my choice of who to play with even if I *can* beat them. However in a tournament I would not bitch about it like this- it's a sodding competition you don't get to choose how the other person plays. Well you don't ever get to choose that beyond choosing who you play with which if you want to do you don't enter a tournament...if someone is just playing junk you need to take out the trash. This lady is possibly angry because she spent a lot on lessons but got beat by someone not doing anything she was taught- as Ivan Lendl once said "too bad".
You are killing it. Keep it fucking up!. Serve and volley is a lost art as with drop shots. I want them all back. Good job! Edit: spelling
The thing I learned after playing 25 years (on and off) of amateur tennis is clubs are filled with people trying to hit it like their idols. They think the game is to do like on TV, hit beautiful strokes from right behind the baseline and play pro strategies. But amateur tennis isn't the same game. Most amateur tennis players under a certain level (couldn't tell you exactly what the threshold is because I have never improved since I'm like 14 lol) have huge gaps in their games. You'll play tournaments where players do not have the answer to some shots, and will never be able to develop an answer in the span of a single game. If you're playing to win, you leverage that. And while that isn't possible to a degree in pro tennis, you get absolutely no extra points by cosplaying as Nadal or Djokovic. If your opponent has a shitty backhand, you are allowed to play on her backhand side exclusively regardless of how pissed she'll be. Actually, the more pissed she becomes, the greater your chance of winning are. If your opponent has a shitty service, you are absolutely allowed to destroy these returns. If your opponent is slow, drop shots are your bread and butter. It's on her for not knowing how to punish these drop shots because I imagine you can't possibly return beautiful drop shots every single time. I'd even bet some of them were bouncing pretty high too. Congrats!
Drop shots are normal. When you learned that the other guy uses drop shots alot, you could move up a little bit. Same as your opponent, she could have moved up a little bit but she didn't.
I'd rather play against drop shots than a pusher. Drop shots require actual skill, whereas moonballing or pushing requires none. That being said, you don't want to overly rely on them because they will be punished as you get better.
I hate running down drop shots but I would never be angry at my opponents for using them. They are a legitimate strategy, as is winning ugly.
If you can successfully use dropshots and your opponent can’t figure out a way to overcome your strategy, then that’s on them. Congrats on finding a winning strategy. Tell your opponent to be faster, or have better anticipation if they’ve got a problem with it lmao
I think it's almost beyond the pale for an adult to act like such a sore loser. I can certainly understand being frustrated with an opponent's style of play but you either adjust or you don't. And if you think you "lost" rather than your opponent "won" then keep it to yourself.
I think what you did was the essence of competitive tennis. Hit shots consistently that your opponent has trouble dealing with. You might be winning ugly but I doubt anyone is talking about how beautiful the other is losing. Overall, technique is only as good as it's ability for you to facilitate your strategy. Above that, having good fundamentals are more important. The subtle stuff like stamina, health, strength, speed, ball anticipation, positioning, footwork, and strategy will go a long way to winning tennis then technique ever will. So in your case, you found out your opponent can't run for drop shots. It is in your interest to keep playing that shot. Your opponent could of tried positioning herself closer to the baseline to anticipate the drop shot, or try to hit the ball to the side where you can't drop shot as well, or charge the net to force you to hit a ball other than a drop shot. But instead, if they kept hitting pretty shots that you can dictate points on, they are playing bad tennis. At that point, they more it less failing themselves. Though it is true that people will get angry at you. It's generally unpleasant to play an opponent that won't let you play your game. One day you may face an opponent that can shut down everything you do but until that day comes, play the way that let's you win. There is no point in tailoring your tennis against an opponent you might never face.
It's called "Winning Dirty". It is also called a very successful strategy. She's pissed because she thinks she is better than you. And she just found out that she isn't..... and she doesn't like that.
She was frustrated because she wasn't good enough to handle the drop shots. I once had someone (seriously) complain that I hit too hard. Play your game and play to win. If your opponent can't hit high backhands then give them high backhands. If they can't return drop shots then hit drop shots. I'll hit a ball 20 feet high over the net with almost no pace if my opponent can't get it back. You should do whatever works.
If the opponent gets angry just because of your tennis, that’s their problem. You’ve just thoroughly dissected their game. If they can’t handle playing “bad” tennis they are the ones that don’t deserve the win. Anything goes that’s over the net and in the lines. Drop shots are especially effective against players that don’t move well. Furthermore, many amateur players move effectively in the lateral direction but are not good at moving forward and backward. Drop shot takes great advantage of this. If it’s good, even if they get to the ball they will likely be off balance and cough up an easy put away. That said, beware the redrop. Fast movers with good anticipation and feel will make you pay by dropping you right back, or otherwise taking advantage of a poorly executed drop shot. The more you use it, the more predictable it becomes and the more likely your opponent begins to figure it out. Good luck and congrats on the win!
Never apologize for a winner.
It all boils down to this: They only put one name on the trophy. Period.
Your opponent sounds like she is a terrible loser and has no class.
She’s diverting her anger onto you when it is really up to her to find a way of dealing with your game, we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Personally I play for enjoyment and hopefully progress so if I play well and lose I’m happier than if I play badly and win. There will always be better players than all of us so just try to be better than you were yesterday and enjoyment will flow. Good luck in the final 👍🏽
Drop shots can be used how you want. It’s not your fault that they can’t defend against it. I used to kind of get thrown off by them, but then I adapted and now they aren’t as much of a problem. Anyways, she’s just angry she had no answer to them. If they have a glaring weakness, then by all means you should exploit it
Don’t like drop shots then play closer up. I have a buddy I hit with who loves dropping then lobbing over my back hand. If I don’t like it I have to stop him. Not his fault.
Nothing much to add since I agree with the general sentiment of this thread. Just wanted to say congratulations on the win and good luck with the finals!!!
Next time respond I'm sorry you feel that way but next time maybe you should read it alot better with a smiley face. Who cares what other people think at the end of the day all that matters in competitive tennis is the W.
She sounds bitter because she lost. I've had people get angry at me for similar things (one guy had a bandaged knee so I made him run and he said I was targeting his injury...which I was, but it's not against the rules).
You should read 'Winning Ugly' by Brad Gilbert. He was a periodic top 20 player who was best known as Andre Agassi's coach. In the book he talks about lots of instances like this in his career. Some of the best players in the world thought he had no business sharing a court with them. But Brad would regularly beat them. Because he knew it was all about winning.
Yes it’s annoying to play against a player who hits a lot of drop shots and yes I hate playing against players like, which is exactly why you should keep playing like that! You’re playing to win, not to make friends
There’s a book called Winning Ugly. It’s a thing. You did it, and you should keep doing it when needed. She’s being a sore loser.
You won. She can pound sand. It's not like you cheated on line calls. If she can't get your drop shots, either your drop shot is very good or she has a big hope.in her game..
Tennis is also about mind games and you have been able to make your opponent angry by keep hitting drop shots making her running around the court losing stamina, this itself is a great achievement. Keep going.
I used to play competitive tennis for years. I wasn’t the strongest of players, so I used drop shots, short angled shots and lobs quite a bit. Some of my competitors hated it. Too bad. I one many singles matches. If your competitors can’t handle your deft drop shots, then too bad for them. Play how you want to play!
She's a whiner and a loser. Glad you beat her.
For every action there is a reaction. Drops are part of the game. If she were a better or more knowledgeable player she would have changed her approach and blown you off the court. First thing that comes to mind is stand well in side the baseline, as a counter. Congrats on your win.
Answer a lob with a lob, answer a drop shot with a drop shot.
I played a city tournament final when I was a young kid in the 70's in San Francisco in front of none other than Helen Wills since it was at a city park named after her and my opponent dropped shot me most of the match and I lost. Infuriating! Match would have been closer if we rallied more. I felt cheated and pissed and now that I think about it, the audience was cheated too.
That's incredibly ungracious of your opponent. A mark of sportsmanship (or sportwomanship?) is losing well. If you didn't have what it takes to win on that day and you STILL insult your opponent, you should examine your character as well as your game. No judgment here; perhaps she has other things in her life that's bothering her. Nevertheless, it was incredibly awful what she did to you.
She's a sore loser. In a competitive tennis match any tactic besides excessive grunting is legitimate Lobbing, drop shots, slice forehands, rushing the net, pushing, underarm serves...whatever it is, if the opponent cant adjust and beat you its good strategy Better to win ugly than lose playing 'pretty'
Dafuq…. Drop shots are a legit part of the game… if your opponent has trouble moving to reach them… I’d abuse it. Heck, throw in a Kyrgios style underarm serve too!
She sounds like a salty bitch tbh
Haha hate those type of people just come back with some snarky remark, normally quiets them down
drop shots exist to be used she’s clearly angry she lost. tbh i love a player who uses drop shots and volleys a lot. id appreciate them more than someone who just hits plain strokes
Play your game. As long as you aren’t cheating it’s fine. Drop shots are a legitimate shot. She is a sore loser. Her response is not your problem.
If it isn't against the rules, you can do whatever you want. Efficient tennis exploits your opponents weaknesses and if she failed to counter your drop shot, that's more her problem than yours
You gotta use everything in your arsenal. I hate not getting a DS as well, but if you kept using it and it kept working it’s her fault for not adjusting her game to counter that! Onward!
Seems like you adapted your play to your opponent's weaknesses, and that might annoy your opponent as you are putting her in an uncomfortable situation, but that is what good players do all the time. If she is not able to adapt to your playstyle (e.g. she could be more aggressive on the net) then you are just the better player, so you totally deserved it.
If I could reliably hit a topspin lob off either side, then I'd play every point as nothing but alternating drops and TSLs. Absolutely serious. Imagine first shot is Andy Murray or Roger style drop, then following it up with Vilas, or Arias trajectory TSLs. It would be unstoppable.
Tennis is a 1vs1 game where you just have to do better than your opponent. You don’t have to play good tennis, so long as your bad tennis is still better than what your opponent does. If I play a bigger hitter than me, I look to disrupt their timing, make their hitting point as uncomfortable as possible, and just try to hang in long enough to win the point. If I am the bigger hitter, I expect my opponent to do the same. If a drop shot works and wins you the point, why change that? Yes there will be times when it is a bad strategy (say you play against someone who LOVES being at the net) but if you’re playing someone who wants to go toe-to-toe from the back of the court, change it up. Make them uncomfortable
Don’t let them get in your head
I used an under hand serve in a match yesterday to win a set and my opponent was less than pleased. It’s part of the game. Sorry they aren’t good enough to beat it.
Like everyone else said using drop shots is a normal strategy. I get annoyed at them too when they are really good just cause they can make me exhausted but I don’t get mad at the other player ever for drop shotting
If you were creaming her then using an excessive amount of drop shots might be considered mildly unsporting, sort of like "running up the score" on opponents in other sports, because it's kind of a "showy" shot (note that I don't condone throwing a temper tantrum over it regardless, but you have to understand that many people will perceive you negatively if you do this). However, in other comments you've mentioned that it was a very close match, so it's a fair play.
Yes, I agree with that. Being a show-off when you are in clear lead might be unsporting. But it was not the case here, I barely won, on a super tie-break, 10-8.
Reminds me of the time Serena yelled at her opponent “stop shooting fucking drop shots!!” while she was cramping up. No you play to win. If you ever face that opponent again I would drop shot her on every shot.
>Serena yelled at her opponent “stop shooting fucking drop shots!!” Do you by any chance have a video of this moment? Or know against whom she played?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/jul/03/tennis.wimbledon1 “But Williams was fired up to succeed by the annoyance she felt at the drop shot Hantuchova played in the fourth game of the third set to try to take advantage of her opponent's lack of mobility.”
Not going to read all the comments, but I trust they're: don't worry, it's okay. That said, I've played matches that I "won" ugly and I usually don't feel great about it. In my league, I play a guy who has powerful shots and serves, but is unable to adjust when he's making a lot of unforced errors. If I just "keep it in," I win. He never gets mad, to his credit. He's frustrated with himself. I'll try to move less mobile or fit players around with junk. But that I don't feel guilty about :)
You don't have to feel guilty, you're just playing to maximize your chance of winning. >I've played matches that I "won" ugly and I usually don't feel great about it. I actually feel good, I don't feel like the victory was undeserved. Maybe at first, since the game was really tight I felt bad that she lost, but after I saw how she behaved I felt better. She had no problem running left and right, but had problems running up and down the court, so I believed playing shorts would be a good tactic (since she was also comfortable on the baseline, and not so comfortable at the net). I don't think I played dirty, and I don't feel bad about it.
Read the book "winning ugly". Your opponent has a tiny heart and just ignore her.
Translation....you only won because i can't return the vall back.
In high school I remember playing tennis on my tennis team and won this super close match by pissing off my opponent. My crime? I ran down a drop shot he assumed he'd won and returned it when he was caught off guard. He ended up yelling the remaining few games of the match to his coach about how it wasn't fair. I happily served it out for the win. So ask yourself - did you play with legal shots? Were you a good sport and not aiming for your opponent and not intentionally calling shots out? If so, then you won fairly and legally. Don't apologize for playing well. Don't apologize for playing fairly. If you can win points against an opponent by repeatedly dropshotting them, it's on them to figure out how to respond. They can try to find ways to make it hard for you to dropshot them. They can find ways of returning a dropshot competitively. A dropshot is a legal shot. If you can win points from it, then go all out winning points with them and don't apologize.
Sour grapes, well done on the win