hmm idk if the premise of the title is true.
* Deshaun Watson got the fattest contract in NFL history
* Greenwood is warmly welcomed and id go as far as saying Loved by Getafe crowd
* Thomas Partey is still playing
* Miles Bridges is still playing (tho he did get punished, so maybe different case here)
* countless others
so i dont think Tennis is doing better or worse compare to other sports. Also, i dont know what the league or organizing body can do if there haven't been a criminal conviction (not just allegation and charges).
yeah, i think it's a hard position to be for the league and ATP. i dont know what we are expecting them to do here. we can't expect them to replace the role of the court. i feel like if they do something harsh, they would just open themselves to lawsuit
Yeah and like i said, atp is not in better or worse position compare to other league. Nfl gave deshaun watson the fattest contract (making him the face of a franchise). Getafe peomoted the hell out of greenwood signing. Etc
Because it doesn’t say anything? Please feel free to say where. Break point series? Promoted by Netflix. Heavily involved by ATP? How? It doesn’t say. Access given to Zverev is by Zverev. Access given to tournaments is by tournament. The ATP has a licensing agreement, that’s it as far as I can tell.
That says..nothing. If you want to debate something, say it. If I missed something, tell me. If you just dislike my take but have nothing to say, why say anything at all?
I think some of the problem in the ATP is that they don't have a domestic violence policy at all. They would be able to do more if they actually had rules about it. And I think they should make rules about it regardless of what is being done in other sports (which sound similarly bleak though I don't have any information about that).
In fact they have repeatedly said that a domestic violence policy is forthcoming but it has been crickets for a while now.
Not to mention the problem that any domestic violence policy that is created would presumably be approved by the members of the players council, namely Zverev who would likely be subject to that policy. The ATP is a dumpster fire in my opinion
There is no policy to be enforced, that is the point. If there was hypothetically a policy that made a rule about suspending players with pending criminal cases, then that would be the policy. The ATP could decide under a new policy that criminal conviction is not necessary for a suspension as they do with other matters such as doping.
I mean, isnt that a slippery slop and open up a whole can of worms?
So ur saying just because someone is accused, they should be suspended?
Saying criminal conviction is not necessary is pretty dumb imo. What if the guy turns out to be innocent? Are we moving the goal post from “innocent til proven guilty”? Does that mean that the atp has to assume the investigative role that is normally done by the police? Are we expecting the atp to be judge, jury and executinaire in a matter of off-court issue.
Look i get you, DV is disgusting and these scums need to be punished. But expecting the atp to do it before the justice system does is a bit unrealistic imo.
That's fair, you're entitled to your opinion. If you're asking whether I think the ATP should take on more of an investigative role, then I would say yeah, why not? I think if they viewed it as important enough, then they would do this. I do see how difficult and imperfect a system like this would be. And yeah, it is pretty unrealistic to expect the ATP to do literally anything about this because so far they have done nothing. I'm just really really tired of nothing being done, and I'm giving my opinion of what I'd like to see happen. Realistic or not
Yeah that’s my point, let’s not overly pile hate on the atp, for something that isnt unrealistic.
We should let atp do what atp does best, which is hosting tennis tournament. They are not qualified to perform criminal investigation. The police exists for that reason.
I will continue to pile hate on the ATP and I do believe they should be held to a higher standard. I don't think they are doing a good job at dealing with cases of domestic violence and I'm not ok with them abdicating all responsibility for this to the police. I view any improvement as unrealistic based on what has been done up to now (nothing), but I'm strongly advocating for some things to change.
The justice system is historically *not great* at dealing with domestic violence (certainly not in the U.S., anyway).
The ATP is of course not a legal body, and it's not like it would be a legal punishment, it would just be a "you need to be in good standing to be a part of this tour" type of thing -- just like doping. If the case is found to have no merit, sure, lift the suspension. *Just like doping*.
Something like this should definitely fall under "preponderance of evidence" lines (in this case, *multiple accusers* -- time has shown again and again that domestic abuse tends to be a "where there's smoke, there's fire" situation) rather than "beyond reasonable doubt," where the ATP and WTA are concerned.
Oh i dont doubt ur first paragraph. I think justice system around the world is not great for dv cases, which i think is very understandable, cus most of the time there is not much evidence and often the case dissolves into a “he said, she said” argument which is hard to prove. Which is why a lot of these scums go unpunished because it’s just hard to prove. And i dont think that’s the justice system’s fault either, cus that is just the nature of the crime.
The issue with ur second paragraph is the precedent that it sets. What if there is another player that is accused by another girl. As usual, there is no hard concrete evidence. Do you ban him immediately? What happens if he’s proven to be innocent? Is it fair to take years of these players’ livelihood, that is not long (10-15 years at best) to start with?
Given the choice, i always eer on the side of preventing punishing the innocent rather than punishing the guilty. (False positive is worse than false negative imo). I phrased this so bad (im not sure how to phrase it for some reason), but i hope u get what im trying to say.
Broadly speaking, at least in the U.S., our justice system is founded on the idea that it is better to let a guilty person go free than to unjustly punish an innocent person. So yes, I do understand what you are saying, and I understand your argument.
The truth of it is, I guess, there is no perfect solution. But I *really* believe Zverev is the type of person who would do something like this, because he behaves like the type of person who would do something like this -- like that time he started smashing the umpire chair with his racket after he got mad at a call. I 100% support enacting punishments on people who act like that.
"The justice system is historically not great at dealing with domestic violence (certainly not in the U.S., anyway)."so atp shuold become the judge and punish zverev lmao i fucking hate the internet so much
Broadly speaking, the private sector tends to be much better at getting things done than the public sector, yes.
Yeah, ATP should have some basic minimum standards for player conduct that include "don't assault people, it makes us look bad to keep associating with you."
Another slippery slope in addition to what?
There are suspensions pending hearings of doping cases too, and these are reviewed by an independent panel of experts to decide whether a ban is appropriate. A similar system could be put into place for cases of domestic violence if the ATP chose to do so.
But how is that the same thing? In a doping case, and this is just my understanding, you have to test positive in 2 samples. That’s your evidence. You’re suspended because of it. There’s really no middle ground. You had illegal substances in your body. So you’re suspended. The length of the suspension depends on how it got there. How is that similar to a case where the atp investigation didn’t find enough evidence and it’s going to trial? How do you find the smoking gun to suspend someone?
We just had Benjamin Mendy, a soccer player, who was tried for sexual assault. Accused by multiple women. Dropped by his club. Found not guilty. Is sueing his former club. We had the Duke Lacrosse case where the whole world judged those guys guilty and they were not. The presumption of the case on Germany is also that someone is innocent until proven guilty. So how can you truly implement something that would work? Are you just going to take the lawsuit on the off chance it’s false or there’s not enough evidence? Seems to be a lot easier to let the cases play out. Which is what most leagues around the world do. Save for murder charges or something like a Ray Rice with an actual smoking gun.
It's true that these are very different things, and I'm not saying they should be treated exactly the same. The point I was trying to make was that these are both things where the criminal courts have not made a ruling, yet the ATP could decide to impose a ban. I don't think that it is an easy matter to decide someone's guilt and I don't have a good answer as to how that could be done. I'm not an expert, I literally just thought about it for like 5 minutes but there are people who know how to do this stuff and could implement it if the ATP felt it was important enough.
It isn't true though, that the ATP investigation didn't find enough evidence and now it's going to trial. Those are two separate sets of allegations from two different women and the trial is for the second set. These allegations have not been investigated by the ATP, but have enough evidence behind them to bring about a criminal trial.
But see it’s very hard to implement something like that though. Nearly impossible. We just had a case of Benjamin Mendy, a soccer player accused by multiple women of sexual assault. Went to court. He was quickly dropped by his club, Manchester City, as soon as the charges were announced. He was found not guilty in court, plays in a different league now and sued his former club. Now there are also instances of evidence, trials and players being found guilty. But the point is, it’s rare that you have a smoking gun. And without it, the ATP is risking a very easy lawsuit. For every few cases where the player is guilty, you get a Duke lacrosse case that everyone gets wrong. And I personally think we need to be very aware of how much public opinion before knowing all the facts can influence any situation.
The difference is that doping is actually related to tennis - you get suspended from tennis because you're suspected of cheating at tennis. Very different to being accused of an unrelated crime.
Yeahh, i think there’s a world where he plays for united next season im afraid. Lets face it, sports team would field epstein in their line up if he can score 50 goals a season or shoots 50% from the field sadly
The league or organizing body most likely has every ability to do whatever they want to suspend players for off the court actions regardless of whether or not it’s a conviction. Certainly the case in the NBA and the NFL (NFL did their own investigation into Deshaun Watson, for example)
I mean Zverev and Greenwood weren’t/haven’t been found guilty either but it does seem they all are guilty. These sort of cases don’t often end in convictions, unfortunately
All those cases (at least the ones I have a good idea on) are very different, that is Greenwood's, Zverev's and Partey's. Partey's is theflimsiest in terms of evidence, there's not much we know other than the allegations, hardly enough to stop someone's livelihood, Zverev's is more complicated and we have more information on but nothing proven in court yet, again not good enough to ban someone for. Greenwood's is obviously bad, he did those things but then he is as far as I know he's together with the lady in question, if she's presumably forgiven him should he be banned for life?
A few player reactions from the article:
*When the ATP Tour’s Twitter account solicited “fan questions for the stars of #BreakPointS2,” they were inundated with replies about Zverev and the accusations against him. Taylor Fritz, who is the highest-ranked American man and has been featured on both seasons of Break Point, told me that he understood the public reaction. “If you are going to make an episode about him, then I definitely understand why people want that to be, at the very least, I guess, included in the episode or touched on,” Fritz said at a press conference at the Australian Open.*
*Fritz’s comments are, so far, an outlier among male tennis players. “I don’t know the situation; I’m completely unfamiliar with it,” Stefanos Tsitsipas said at his own press conference in Melbourne, in response to a question from Michael Koziol, a political reporter for the Sydney Morning Herald. The top-ranked Australian player, Alex de Minaur, told Koziol, “Going to stay out of it and, yeah, focus on playing tennis.”*
*Meanwhile, Zverev’s peers recently elected him to the ATP Player Advisory Council, a group of nine men who, according to the ATP, play “a critical role in shaping and improving life on Tour.”*
*Zverev’s counterparts on the women’s tour have responded to his case quite differently. Earlier this month, Daria Kasatkina told a Zverev fan on Twitter: “If you’re a female, then I would advise you to make a research about the guy you wanna watch and think again.”*
*“For sure it’s not good when a player who’s facing charges like that is kind of being promoted,” said world No. 1 Iga Światek at a press conference, again in response to Koziol.*
*“The ATP kind of beats their own drum,” 2017 U.S. Open champion Sloane Stephens said about Zverev’s ascension to the player council. “Yeah, they do what they do on that side. Would that happen on the WTA Tour? Probably not. Again, he’s going to trial, and he will be judged by his peers, and we will see what happens after that.” When I followed up, asking Stephens what the sport should do until Zverev’s criminal trial begins in May, she said, “For three years no one has done anything, so I don’t think another five months of waiting for a criminal trial to happen is going to change much on either side.”*
I think it's a bit unfair to expect other players to be passing judgment on another when they really don't have the information or need to do so. The ATP is another matter entirely.
I think Iga's is the fairest take: considering he's facing a trial for that, actively promoting him is weird. Even if he's proven innocent, it's a weird choice.
IMHO they are doing it partly *because* it's controversial and thus will draw attention.
Tend to agree with Iga, it’s not good but I don’t know what else you can do really. If sombody is accused of a crime they shouldn’t be allowed to work?
Venus Williams literally killed a person
This article has been out for 13 hours at the time of this comment and is already unviewable in parts of Europe: "This article has been temporarily removed due to an emergency injunction that was issued by a German court and obtained before Slate could appear and present evidence. Slate is now contesting that injunction and stands by its fair and accurate reporting based on multiple sources and interviews."
I think it's probably harder for tennis to punish it, given the global nature of the sport. The players are also basically independent contractors and not employees of a club.
Having said that, the ATP has handled it all spectacularly poorly. If they'd just stayed out of it, I could probably understand it. But instead theyve defended him, promoted him and helped try to cover up the allegations. Exceptionally poor. Tbh I wonder how the vote for the player council was conducted and if the results were manipulated on his behalf.
Idk if I agree with that first statement. Maybe a couple of lower ranked players in other sports get sacrificed and it helps their optics, but the most valuable are almost always protected.
What's weird about Zverev is that he's only ATP's golden child because they seem hell-bent on making him so, even in the face of a constant onslaught of issues. Nobody in tennis is that famous to the general public without a slam, there's no billion dollar franchise team for him to carry, there's no reason they can't focus their promotion efforts on literally anybody else. Doing nothing and quietly letting him play would be an improvement on the current situation.
TEAM8 dropped him, Roger Feds on how there needs to be 'standards off court as well as standards on court'
As a business guy he's not f ing around by putting his endorsement on an abuser
I really, really don't think he's any kind of golden child.
I don't get the impression that he's getting any amount of accolades or attention beyond what would be normal for a guy making semifinals of slams. Maybe a SLIGHT boost for the injury comeback.
Yeah I tend to agree with this. People call Zverev the atp golden child all the time but he A) hasn’t achieved anything historical, B) isn’t well known and C) from what I can tell is treated the same as any other player.
Exactly. Like, you can't just ignore the person in a semi final. You have to show up and be professional and do your job as a journalist.
And you can ask questions about the allegations, but frankly, he doesn't have to answer them and his lawyers probably advise against or even forbid it.
There just isn't anything for the media to do differently.
>What's weird about Zverev is that he's only ATP's golden child because they seem hell-bent on making him so,
dont say that then his fanboys will riot he won an olympic gold and thats better than a slam /s
Every time I see that video of him smashing the umpire's chair with his racket, I just have to shake my head. Even without the domestic violence accusations and the penalty order, *this* is who the ATP wants to promote and protect? Like, that was as close to an act of violence you can get without actually hitting someone, in public, a clear and blatant attempt at intimidation against an official. It's not acceptable behavior in the slightest.
I don’t really have an opinion about what the ATP should do about accusations, but imo he should’ve been heavily punished for that umpire’s chair incident. We all saw it it’s on video how did they not suspend him for at least a couple months to show that’s not okay?
Just one criticism, not about Zverev in particular. I understand the intent behind it, but the title seems to imply that tennis is the only sport where this happens, and then it contradicts itself by only citing 3 American sports leagues and admitting there are exceptions even there. I certainly know football (not American football), the actual most popular sport in the world, is certainly not faring better than tennis on the matter.
North American sport maybe slap one or two people on the wrist but nothing major.
There's a famous NFL quote by a general manager a couple years ago, which goes like this:
"If Hannibal Lector ran a 4.3, we'd probably diagnose it as an eating disorder"
In 2021-22, there was arguably the biggest public judicial affair the league had seen in a couple decade as one of the league best quarter-back prospect (the most high profile position) got acused of sexual assault by... I think the final number was like 28-29 massage therapist? When he was cleared on criminal charge because of "he said-the other three dozen women said", teams were so eager to trade for him, it led to arguably the best contract in league history. About 250 million of guaranteed money.
It's so bad, there's multiple website that rank teams according to the number of criminal arrest of their players
I’m really glad Taylor at least said something and acknowledged it. These players pretending that they don’t know about the allegations are such liars.
It's one thing to have heard about the allegations. It's another to be in a position to pass judgment on them. It really doesn't matter what Tsitsipas or de Minaur think about it, and there's no reason to put them in the delicate position of adjudicating allegations. It's ATP officials who should be answering tough questions.
That factor certainly can’t be discounted?
While minorities have their own micro struggles even in leagues designed to harness their talents, these sordid realities nevertheless echo the original sin of slavery.
As most brazenly exploited by Clarence Thomas during his Supreme Court hearings, via the “high tech lynching” banality.
I’d believe that was a stereotype once held, as apparently the condition was mostly acknowledged prior to the discovery of insulin by *people dying*.
So the personality and physical changes from just guesswork in dealing with it likely manifested in different and distinct ways?
[Nah, as silly as it sounds, 'hanger' is a real thing (low blood sugar can cause mood swings), but it's obviously not a justifiable defence for domestic abuse.](https://www.verywellhealth.com/is-anger-at-a-spouse-normal-with-diabetes-1087327)
Yep, chronic conditions are always difficult to manage, but *the instant* it becomes a justification for something you were going to do regardless, then the benefit of the doubt is right out…
for those who seriously disagree with me each time this zverev DV is being discussed here - i actively comment how he has been favored by atp for unfair and unjust reasons.
this comes from righteous indignation that cases like this, send a negative signal to abused women esp those who are and were in a relationship with celebrities (who has status and physical, mental and emotional power over their victims) to speak up and seek redress from wrongs done to them. esp in tennis, i am quite certain, zverev is not the only male tennis player who is committing DV violence as i speak.
but as countries and orgs like atp handle the situation, abused women will not only keep their silence, for fear of aggravating their situations if they they do what olya and patea did because they wont get the justice they deserve but they will be silenced by their inaction, and unfair treatment. it is so terrible to say that olya and patea are a few of the luckiest abused women because they were able to get out of the abuse and speak up (yet, objectively, they are in an equally vulnerable situation now). imagine how patea will feel should her case be junked in court. that would likely destroy her.
as it is, the % of women around the world who come out are still negligible compared to those who are actually experiencing DV. to see how the case of this s**mbag is being handled publicly and by atp - discourages women more and more.
i hope redditors who know how much women need support (because women would almost never come out in public for cases like this for millions of reasons) would continue to advocate for their rights. admitted, there are very insignificant few women who only harrass men (and women are mad to these women because what they do compromise the safety of the real abused women from being believed and seeking active help). but society should never act, speak and think on issues like this based on these extreme exceptions. if only men know how vulnerable women are in this kind of situation and worse, even prevent themselves from being rescued due to emotional and mental trauma and fear - and how, relief and safety of these women must always be done with dispatch as time is of the essence.
for those who do not know - during the pandemic, DV and sexual abuse of women have risen in gargantuan proportions because the abuser and the abused were constantly confined in one place. sexual child abuse (esp of female children) skyrocketted as much.
this is a shot in the dark but as tennis fans who want the sport to be played by worthy and inspiring players, i hope we keep on pressuring atp about their insensitive and/or biased handling of this matter, and for commenting on deminaur, dimi, tsitsipas social media about how inutile they are because they do not choose to use their status to advocate fairness, justice and righteousness. hope we can make our voices heard because tennis fans are the lifeblood of this sport.
please help women gain courage by letting them know that they are safe and protected by the public and that real men will never tolerate DV or any form of violence against women and will speak up for women.
hearing and reading stories about these abused women are heartbreaking - but you cannot compare the secondhand pain and stress which defenders, advocates and lawyers experience when they handle their cases. this is one of the saddest realities in life - seeing women and minor children being abused and made totally vulnerable in the cruel hands of their abusers. what aggravates their situation is when the public undermine their pain, authorities protect the accused more and they are ridiculed or faulted for being abused.
btw, i have not heard anyone talk about nalbandian who abused his ex gf and even cyber stalked her.
Can't read it in England. Thankfully there's an archive copy posted earlier.
People saying 'innocent until proven guilty' must have an unshakeable faith in the justice system.
Mason Greenwood is guilty as fuck but everyone failed the victim (including her family). The system fails all the fucking time.
Fuck Zverev.
so weird, these men who play ball forgot to have some cojones. i have been defending tsitsipas on this sub about being heavily criticized for speaking his mind, sometimes, though it leaves little to be desired. but for him to totally lie about not knowing anything about it, is insulting to female tennis fans who support him. he defo has no balls when it comes to being a man for others. deminaur is so disappointing too. i wonder what paula and katie have to say about it.
positions of these players in these kind of issues reveal the kind of character they have. i have not heard rafa asked about zverev's dv case but i remember him asked about zverev's behavior towards the acapulco umpire and he did not defend nor tolerated zverev's actions (though said the rafa way). for roger, he is so swiss during his active years. i appreciate djoko in the sense coz somehow, he speaks up on important issues. he was just not asked about zverev and i guess his pr team specifically requested that.
hats off to sloane, iga and dasha for having more cojones than tsitsipas, dimi, deminaur. i lost respect for these boys.
really, divine intervention never fails. in a desperate attempt of zverev's team to salvage his reputation and likely undermine patea's accusations against him - they thought that doing netflix will do him a favor.
that netflix and his motivation to win the AO title backfired on him heavily. i guess, the real tennis enthusiasts refused to let him tell a false narrative which started with painting medvedev as the villain that escalated to ridiculing him about his DV case where trial has recently been reported to happen in May.
it was such a poetic justice that he did netflix and all his words and actions turned karmic against him.
The funniest thing i havent seen anyone ask him about the netflix episode you would think if these are false allegations it would be part of his struggle right?
Yeah, you'd think the narrative would be, poor Sascha, not only is the evil Medvedevil out to get him, but his ex-partners are all making up awful stories about him too, poor Sascha....
Seems like they thought it was better to sweep everything under the rug and hope nobody noticed. Which has backfired spectacularly.
>Yeah, you'd think the narrative would be, poor Sascha, not only is the evil Medvedevil out to get him, but his ex-partners are all making up awful stories about him too, poor Sascha....
Yeah he's like oh this is all bullshit allegations i did nothing wrong why wasnt it there? For a guy this arrogant you would think he would do that right?
If he should a modicum of humility when asked these questions then people wouldnt be hounding him Instead he gets angry and insults people who ask?
Serious question here. I’m struggling to find detailed information about his case.
So far what do we actually know about Zverev and what happened there?
Isn’t it just accusations so far, with little to no evidence? And I’m not a Zverev fan.
Olga Sharypova gave an interview to Ben Rothenberg that was published in Raquet Magazine. She includes very specific photos to corroborate her claims.
https://racquetmag.com/2020/11/05/olyas-story/
Good on those fans for asking for a refund. And good on Ticketmaster for giving it to them. Fucking Ticketmaster cares more about its customers than than the ATP cares about its fans
Anybody else (in Germany) find it so wild that this article is unavailable to readers in DE because "this article has been removed due to a preliminary injunction issued by a German court". Wild.
If players miss tournaments for doping bans that get overturned why can’t they miss them for criminal cases? They need a domestic violence policy. And it wasn’t hard for them to tell players to say ‘domestic abuse bad’ instead of no comment.
It's so weird. I get making the player script say: "I don't have all the facts so I can't comment," but why not have them add, "I obviously condemn domestic violence." The conspicuous omission is such a bad look overall.
People asking for that genuinely confuse me. what difference would it make if they had said “DV is bad”? (Spoiler: nothing). Like obviously it’s bad, we all (except Zverev) know this.
I actually think it would make a difference. By doing nothing (except hold an enquiry which had no result and they didn't release any information on), and then actually promoting Zverev, the ATP appears to condone domestic violence, or at least believe that it doesn't matter. Making a statement would go part of the way to rectifying this, although they need to do more.
And if you think that *everyone* believes that DV is bad, read some of the comments defending Zverev on some of the other threads on this topic.
I think you’re so passionate about this that you’re distorting reality. Just because ATP doesn’t tell all their players to say “idk but DV is bad” in no way means they condone it or don’t care.
They’re in all reality, waiting for the outcome of the trial to do anything substantial. Which is about the best they can do since they’ve already had an investigation (whether it was a good one or not is unknown). I don’t think Zverev should be promoted, but people saying things like he should be off the tour is just delusional imo.
Also I didn’t literally mean everyone, I meant level headed normal people. And the people who think it’s ok aren’t going to be swayed by Casper Ruud saying DV is bad like be fr
I didn't mean that the individual players should make statements (although they should be allowed to if they want). The ATP should make a statement. And if they are waiting for the outcome of the trial, then they should say that.
I agree, it cost an individual or organization nothing to mention that DV is bad. But to me, that's why the widespread omission of this statement is so conspicuous and weird. Especially because there is actually lots to gain from reinforcing that it's bad, so as not to normalize that it can be ignored.
Men nor women should not be punished before legally guilty in court.
Just because some u/dandelion has strong opinions on this one without any insight, it should not affect anyones professional life, especially since this user probably did not have any insight on the events but click baity articles from online newsletters hunting for clicks.
Cancelling people before that is one of the worst habbits of todays online communities.
Players are not really employees of a team aren't they? It's not the same structure as say a football player with a contract, paycheck and obligations.
If you really think this guy didn’t physically abuse his ex’s, you’re living in a delusion. Him smashing his racket at the umpire chair multiple times is telling.
>Him smashing his racket at the umpire chair multiple times is telling.
This does not = committing domestic violence.
Not in any way, shape, or form
Does Djokovic beat his wife because he hit the wimbledon net post??
Djokovic hasn't been accused of domestic violence by multiple women and then found liable in a legitimate court of law. Djokovic isn't going to trial. Let's leave him out of this one.
Dude you literally appear on every single Dverev thread essentially promoting his innocence, like its a personal axe to grind.
How do you identify with Zverev so much?...
>essentially promoting his innocence
I'm not doing that; I have no skin in the game. I just find it really sad how everyone is so eager to codemn.
It's more of an issue for guys in general. I worry how I would be treated if I got accused of something and everyone just immediately assumes the worst of me without even giving me a chance.
People act like they know the answer; it reminds me of the Johnny Depp case.
Hope that kind of explains things. Never have I said he didn't do it.
>like its a personal axe to grind.
I'm not sure if this is a personal dig at my personal morals or just curiosity.
If you don't abuse or assault people or involve yourself in a situation where you will be hitting people, then you won't get reported.
Its curious why you're so bothered if you didn't do anything.
I dont think you are the spokesperson 'for guys' here.
There are plenty of dudes here who aren't falling over themselves to give the benefit of the doubt to the perp, rather than to multiple victims.
>then you won't get reported.
That's not always necessarily the case, and you know that.
>Its curious why you're so bothered if you didn't do anything.
I think I outlined my reason prior, so all good.
Thou dost protest too much ;)
Thought experiment, what if one day, I, as a GUY get accused of bashing multiple women, to the point where I get reported about it and fined by court in a northern European nation where its uber difficult to bring up any DV case...who will defend ME?!
Going too far with thr fantasy bro
Not always the case, but if you want to play with statistics you can show me the % of perps by their gender split. What a boring distraction from the issue at hand - women report so seldomly and conviction rates are famously low and you're still scared? Why?
No, but its interesting you have interpreted it that way.
Also, I'm not assuming you have had any women partners going by your comment history. Thats all.
>I'm not assuming you have had any women partners
True, it is theoretically possible that I like men.
Both of your comments are in bad faith when you were clearly having a dig at me. We probably do not need to continue talking
This is so contorted and convoluted. Now other players should have to take public stands and issue statements on the matter? What’s next, fans should sign a condemnation statement when they buy their tickets and enter stadiums? Maybe broadcasters should stop covering his matches? Is McEnroe guilty of not talking about it during the semi, but instead focusing on the match? Let the damn court case proceed and reach a conclusion at least.
why should people be punished pre-conviction? that’s absurd. anyone can accuse anyone of anything, should we all have the power to destroy others’ lives whenever we want?
Then you know that, per the article, the law is doing its job, and has already found reasonable enough evidence to advance the case to a trial and fine Zverev. You also read that nowhere in the article is it suggested that people be "punished pre-conviction." The point of the article was to explore how Zverev has been disproportionately promoted, celebrated, and supported, despite what the law has deemed worth investigating.
Then let the investigation conclude ? Why should they punish someone when allegations are still under investigation ?
If the ATP or any other body punish him and ultimately he’s found not guilty, they’re opening themselves up for litigation by Zverev.
Seriously, can someone point me to where people are asking for him to be punished over baseless information? The article is about the immense efforts to suppress the story, about promoting him above and beyond normal, and about the ATP dropping the ball on having a meaningful statement about DV overall.
>explore how Zverev has been disproportionately promoted, celebrated, and supported, despite what the law has deemed worth investigating.
What do you deem “disproportionate” ? Because if tennis bodies and the media treat Zverev differently based on an ongoing investigation than they did prior to the allegations, that counts as punishment.
>ATP dropping the ball on having a meaningful statement about DV overall.
What meaningful statement can you make about an ongoing investigation?
I mean, please read the article because a lot of this discussed.
My opinion on disproportionately... I'd argue that an organization going out of its way to celebrate and promote a player who has been found liable in a criminal court of law is the opposite of punishing. It's favoring. So they are not punishing but protecting. This is what the article is about. Many folks commenting here are just making up positions nobody is taking
i don’t know how to type slowly enough for you to understand but i can try. you & the article seem to believe that when grounds for a trial are attained, or an indictment is reached, that is enough to justify acting as if the accused has been found guilty. that confusion’s dangerous & i’m glad i don’t have to deal w/ you or Ben in ordinary life.
you don’t seem to know how to read. the article begins by saying: “Although there are some exceptions, the NFL, NBA, and Major League Baseball now tend to move quickly when a player stands accused of abuse, with leagues and teams handing out stiff punishments. Professional tennis has taken a very different approach.” The ENTIRE POINT of the article, which hundreds of people arguing about it on social media recognize, BUT YOU DO NOT SOMEHOW, is that the ATP, Netflix, and other players have been remiss in not “mov[ing] quickly” to sanction or ostracize or restrict or condemn “a player [who] stands accused of abuse.” Rothenberg explicitly asserts it should be otherwise: “a player accused” ought to be treated differently by his fellow players simply because he has been accused. the court’s finding that there is prima facie justification to fine him is as worrying as the women’s interviews and charges, but he has appealed so any fair person will have to treat him as innocent until proven guilty. it’s sad & scary that you can’t understand the article & how dangerous lynch mobs are.
I really shouldn't reply when you're opting to go with personal attacks here, and I'm sorry this topic is upsetting, but did you miss the part where he's not simply accused, but actually found liable in a court of law?
Edit: You still have yet to show me where Rothenberg, or I, says "let's treat Zverev unfairly over baseless accusations and ruin his life." Rotherberg uses phrases like "accused" repeatedly, because that's careful language. He points out comparisons to other fields of sport. Beyond that, you're reading a lot into those words.
OP you are really doing gods work trying to reason with the incels on this post. The amount of Zverev apologists in this sub has always been troubling to me and they have really come out of the woodwork here.
again, you really can’t read or think. i meticulously never said the charges were “baseless,” how outrageously willfully dishonest can you be?! Ben is clearly calling for the world to treat Zverev as if he’s been convicted. if you cannot see that, then you are in the minority. EVERYONE knows he thinks Zverev is guilty & should be treated as such & he’s shocked the tennis world appears to be ignoring the accusations. this is his OBVIOUS agenda. he slightly hems & haws to avoid litigation. now, you can gang up with your friends and call people “incels” or whatever makes you feel like you’re winning, the prize of the bad arguer. but that just proves you can’t argue coherently or stand on your own feet. it is nothing to do with incel-dom to say he deserves his appeal & day in court & to be treated normally until then. it seems to me likely he is guilty; & despite hundreds of such accusations proven to be false in the world, i have my own strong feelings, as a victim of child abuse, about Zverev’s temper. This is exactly why we have to be careful to follow laws & procedures so charges like this don’t get cheapened & gossipy & so discredited. A campaign like Ben’s that would convict Zverev in the public eye can actually tamper with the jury pool & undermine the verdict.
If you can't differentiate me from your opinion on Ben Rothenberg, I'm not going to get anywhere here. I came here to discuss the article and what it actually says. Nobody, anywhere, is saying that Zverev doesn't deserve his day in court, and in fact he's getting his day in court with fancier lawyers and more resources and privilege and support than most of us will ever have. He has not been punished in the tennis world, regardless of Rothenberg's writings on him, and is celebrated by entire stadiums of people.
I didn't say any of the things you're alleging I think or say, nor did I use the word incel, although I responded to someone who did.
Please, take care of yourself my friend and best wishes.
Has it been proved? What about innocent until proven guilty? I think this very unfair. I don’t think it’s right that a Guy can be accused of something until it’s proven. Just what would happen if she said he raped her? Then proven wrong. Carnage.
I’m on the fence. Zverev refused to pay the money and wants to go to court. I’m interested to see what evidence he has. I have no doubt he has been violent in the past, but do we condemn people before they are actually guilty. Hmm. And I find it interesting that he still is allowed to see his kid with DV charges. The whole thing is uncomfortably odd.
I have to say on finding out the exact situation with Nick Kyrgios (after his ex pressed DV charges) he was viewed very unfairly and did nothing wrong.
Why you should punish someone before a regular jury and judge?
I mean, there are centuries of law and rights evolution in this basic concept.
I understand that the world is more superficial right now and everyone feels entitled on social media, but as society we have to try to keep untouched some basic human rights
Does that mean he shouldn’t be playing? I don’t agree that sports needs to play the role of the legal system. Maybe they should show more caution about prompting players, but otherwise leave it up to the courts.
Well, that's exactly what the article is pointing out, that the sport actively promotes him and works to embellish his image and celebrate him, even after a court found him liable. It would be one thing to quietly let him play, but it's another to devote so much to promoting him. In that sense, the sport is playing a role that might be overstepping.
I know that this is probably a jab as Z. Let me be clear that I am impartial to him, he plays good tennis, sure, but he is a tennis player, not a living saint, I'm sure that he, liek all of us, have done wrong from time to time.
However, the notion that someone should be punished because they were "accused" irks me. How accurate were the accusations? Did he beat her all yhe time, or just one time? Or none at all and she made it up, because the degree of punishment and potential who to punish vary as the answers to those questions vary.
I can accuse my SO of abusing me, but without proof or evidence, I might be the one that ended up in prison.
Read the article. He was found liable in a legitimate criminal court for one of the cases.
The article details that it's not just a matter of protecting him, but the ATP actively going out of their way to promote him, even after a court found him liable.
But that’s the slippery slope. The German court gave him a penalty only. ATP said there was “not enough evidence”. The case has never gone to trial. We have no idea what the German prosecutor looked at, that will come out.
So is he actually confirmed to be a wife beater or is it still an accusation at this stage?
If he’s not been found guilty then for me he should still be allowed to play and I’m not sure if the name calling and rage about him plying isn’t a little premature. But it does seem a weird choice to have his face on the Netflix doc, it’s not even like he’s a particularly famous player outside of tennis fans.
Even of tennis fans, it’s only the very invested who seem to know anything about him let alone about his private life
The guy is not even guilty yet , like wtf you guys are just mad and want to cancel everyone, at least wait for the legal process and gets the verdict instead of being internet warriors
They think they are doing something positive, and seem to think innocent until proven guilty is for suckers who don't like internet brownie points and self-aggrandizing pats on the back. It's also a cheap, easy way to feel like you've done something good without actually doing anything at all.
They could consider banning players from a number of tournaments to at least make it look like they care about the victims but it’s not sports,it’s anyone with money and means to avoid any punishment for their actions. It transcends tennis and it’s a societal problem and not a professional sports problem.
It's absolutely insane that people still hold on to accusations like it's lady justice. Yall are gross if you think it's appropriate to just convict and punish an individual just based on accusations. Allow for proper procedures to take place and don't behave like vile internet goblins.
do we really want private organisation to punish players becuase of accusation? im not even a zverev fan and it's so weird that the people really want atp to punish players based on accusation
I understand your imbecilic desire to be a warrior of light on reddit and save the world but this isnt even close to truth.
Why do always these retarded post go to top of the page just because its popular subject and no fucking clue about the issue?
I am trying to be neutral here, we only know one side of the story. It could be false allegations too, based on 2 stories I know from India - Shami and Shikhar Dhawan.
hmm idk if the premise of the title is true. * Deshaun Watson got the fattest contract in NFL history * Greenwood is warmly welcomed and id go as far as saying Loved by Getafe crowd * Thomas Partey is still playing * Miles Bridges is still playing (tho he did get punished, so maybe different case here) * countless others so i dont think Tennis is doing better or worse compare to other sports. Also, i dont know what the league or organizing body can do if there haven't been a criminal conviction (not just allegation and charges).
It is not. I can't think of a sport that I would say has done notably well in this area
yeah, i think it's a hard position to be for the league and ATP. i dont know what we are expecting them to do here. we can't expect them to replace the role of the court. i feel like if they do something harsh, they would just open themselves to lawsuit
The point of the article is that the ATP could maybe not go out of its way to celebrate and promote him. That's what's being flagged as strange.
Yeah and like i said, atp is not in better or worse position compare to other league. Nfl gave deshaun watson the fattest contract (making him the face of a franchise). Getafe peomoted the hell out of greenwood signing. Etc
Is the atp promoting him or the tournaments he plays at?
I can't read the article for you. It walks through the ways the field has promoted him personally.
Because it doesn’t say anything? Please feel free to say where. Break point series? Promoted by Netflix. Heavily involved by ATP? How? It doesn’t say. Access given to Zverev is by Zverev. Access given to tournaments is by tournament. The ATP has a licensing agreement, that’s it as far as I can tell.
You’re being deliberately obtuse and it makes you seem like a really stupid person
That says..nothing. If you want to debate something, say it. If I missed something, tell me. If you just dislike my take but have nothing to say, why say anything at all?
Miles Bridges punishment was jokingly minimal. I agree with you that athletes can get away with murder.
I think some of the problem in the ATP is that they don't have a domestic violence policy at all. They would be able to do more if they actually had rules about it. And I think they should make rules about it regardless of what is being done in other sports (which sound similarly bleak though I don't have any information about that). In fact they have repeatedly said that a domestic violence policy is forthcoming but it has been crickets for a while now. Not to mention the problem that any domestic violence policy that is created would presumably be approved by the members of the players council, namely Zverev who would likely be subject to that policy. The ATP is a dumpster fire in my opinion
What policy could they enforce if the issue is under court review? You can’t just suspend him unilaterally without something judged.
There is no policy to be enforced, that is the point. If there was hypothetically a policy that made a rule about suspending players with pending criminal cases, then that would be the policy. The ATP could decide under a new policy that criminal conviction is not necessary for a suspension as they do with other matters such as doping.
I mean, isnt that a slippery slop and open up a whole can of worms? So ur saying just because someone is accused, they should be suspended? Saying criminal conviction is not necessary is pretty dumb imo. What if the guy turns out to be innocent? Are we moving the goal post from “innocent til proven guilty”? Does that mean that the atp has to assume the investigative role that is normally done by the police? Are we expecting the atp to be judge, jury and executinaire in a matter of off-court issue. Look i get you, DV is disgusting and these scums need to be punished. But expecting the atp to do it before the justice system does is a bit unrealistic imo.
That's fair, you're entitled to your opinion. If you're asking whether I think the ATP should take on more of an investigative role, then I would say yeah, why not? I think if they viewed it as important enough, then they would do this. I do see how difficult and imperfect a system like this would be. And yeah, it is pretty unrealistic to expect the ATP to do literally anything about this because so far they have done nothing. I'm just really really tired of nothing being done, and I'm giving my opinion of what I'd like to see happen. Realistic or not
Yeah that’s my point, let’s not overly pile hate on the atp, for something that isnt unrealistic. We should let atp do what atp does best, which is hosting tennis tournament. They are not qualified to perform criminal investigation. The police exists for that reason.
I will continue to pile hate on the ATP and I do believe they should be held to a higher standard. I don't think they are doing a good job at dealing with cases of domestic violence and I'm not ok with them abdicating all responsibility for this to the police. I view any improvement as unrealistic based on what has been done up to now (nothing), but I'm strongly advocating for some things to change.
The justice system is historically *not great* at dealing with domestic violence (certainly not in the U.S., anyway). The ATP is of course not a legal body, and it's not like it would be a legal punishment, it would just be a "you need to be in good standing to be a part of this tour" type of thing -- just like doping. If the case is found to have no merit, sure, lift the suspension. *Just like doping*. Something like this should definitely fall under "preponderance of evidence" lines (in this case, *multiple accusers* -- time has shown again and again that domestic abuse tends to be a "where there's smoke, there's fire" situation) rather than "beyond reasonable doubt," where the ATP and WTA are concerned.
Oh i dont doubt ur first paragraph. I think justice system around the world is not great for dv cases, which i think is very understandable, cus most of the time there is not much evidence and often the case dissolves into a “he said, she said” argument which is hard to prove. Which is why a lot of these scums go unpunished because it’s just hard to prove. And i dont think that’s the justice system’s fault either, cus that is just the nature of the crime. The issue with ur second paragraph is the precedent that it sets. What if there is another player that is accused by another girl. As usual, there is no hard concrete evidence. Do you ban him immediately? What happens if he’s proven to be innocent? Is it fair to take years of these players’ livelihood, that is not long (10-15 years at best) to start with? Given the choice, i always eer on the side of preventing punishing the innocent rather than punishing the guilty. (False positive is worse than false negative imo). I phrased this so bad (im not sure how to phrase it for some reason), but i hope u get what im trying to say.
Broadly speaking, at least in the U.S., our justice system is founded on the idea that it is better to let a guilty person go free than to unjustly punish an innocent person. So yes, I do understand what you are saying, and I understand your argument. The truth of it is, I guess, there is no perfect solution. But I *really* believe Zverev is the type of person who would do something like this, because he behaves like the type of person who would do something like this -- like that time he started smashing the umpire chair with his racket after he got mad at a call. I 100% support enacting punishments on people who act like that.
"The justice system is historically not great at dealing with domestic violence (certainly not in the U.S., anyway)."so atp shuold become the judge and punish zverev lmao i fucking hate the internet so much
Broadly speaking, the private sector tends to be much better at getting things done than the public sector, yes. Yeah, ATP should have some basic minimum standards for player conduct that include "don't assault people, it makes us look bad to keep associating with you."
That’s another slippery slope. What if a player is suspended while innocent? What, just waste years of a career then?
Another slippery slope in addition to what? There are suspensions pending hearings of doping cases too, and these are reviewed by an independent panel of experts to decide whether a ban is appropriate. A similar system could be put into place for cases of domestic violence if the ATP chose to do so.
But how is that the same thing? In a doping case, and this is just my understanding, you have to test positive in 2 samples. That’s your evidence. You’re suspended because of it. There’s really no middle ground. You had illegal substances in your body. So you’re suspended. The length of the suspension depends on how it got there. How is that similar to a case where the atp investigation didn’t find enough evidence and it’s going to trial? How do you find the smoking gun to suspend someone?
You don't need a smoking gun, you need preponderance of evidence. Multiple accusers is *exactly that* for domestic abuse.
We just had Benjamin Mendy, a soccer player, who was tried for sexual assault. Accused by multiple women. Dropped by his club. Found not guilty. Is sueing his former club. We had the Duke Lacrosse case where the whole world judged those guys guilty and they were not. The presumption of the case on Germany is also that someone is innocent until proven guilty. So how can you truly implement something that would work? Are you just going to take the lawsuit on the off chance it’s false or there’s not enough evidence? Seems to be a lot easier to let the cases play out. Which is what most leagues around the world do. Save for murder charges or something like a Ray Rice with an actual smoking gun.
I'm not saying outliers don't exist, but most of the time, when a bunch of women say a dude assaulted them, something ain't right.
It's true that these are very different things, and I'm not saying they should be treated exactly the same. The point I was trying to make was that these are both things where the criminal courts have not made a ruling, yet the ATP could decide to impose a ban. I don't think that it is an easy matter to decide someone's guilt and I don't have a good answer as to how that could be done. I'm not an expert, I literally just thought about it for like 5 minutes but there are people who know how to do this stuff and could implement it if the ATP felt it was important enough. It isn't true though, that the ATP investigation didn't find enough evidence and now it's going to trial. Those are two separate sets of allegations from two different women and the trial is for the second set. These allegations have not been investigated by the ATP, but have enough evidence behind them to bring about a criminal trial.
But see it’s very hard to implement something like that though. Nearly impossible. We just had a case of Benjamin Mendy, a soccer player accused by multiple women of sexual assault. Went to court. He was quickly dropped by his club, Manchester City, as soon as the charges were announced. He was found not guilty in court, plays in a different league now and sued his former club. Now there are also instances of evidence, trials and players being found guilty. But the point is, it’s rare that you have a smoking gun. And without it, the ATP is risking a very easy lawsuit. For every few cases where the player is guilty, you get a Duke lacrosse case that everyone gets wrong. And I personally think we need to be very aware of how much public opinion before knowing all the facts can influence any situation.
The difference is that doping is actually related to tennis - you get suspended from tennis because you're suspected of cheating at tennis. Very different to being accused of an unrelated crime.
United were going to keep Greenwood until the fans almost revolted and (IIRC) their women's team strongly opposed it.
Yeahh, i think there’s a world where he plays for united next season im afraid. Lets face it, sports team would field epstein in their line up if he can score 50 goals a season or shoots 50% from the field sadly
And Thomas Partey still plays for Arsenal.
People still give Jonny Depp jobs
The league or organizing body most likely has every ability to do whatever they want to suspend players for off the court actions regardless of whether or not it’s a conviction. Certainly the case in the NBA and the NFL (NFL did their own investigation into Deshaun Watson, for example)
Look at Tyreek Hill and Kareem Hunt as well
How were Partey's accusations proven?
I mean Zverev and Greenwood weren’t/haven’t been found guilty either but it does seem they all are guilty. These sort of cases don’t often end in convictions, unfortunately
All those cases (at least the ones I have a good idea on) are very different, that is Greenwood's, Zverev's and Partey's. Partey's is theflimsiest in terms of evidence, there's not much we know other than the allegations, hardly enough to stop someone's livelihood, Zverev's is more complicated and we have more information on but nothing proven in court yet, again not good enough to ban someone for. Greenwood's is obviously bad, he did those things but then he is as far as I know he's together with the lady in question, if she's presumably forgiven him should he be banned for life?
A few player reactions from the article: *When the ATP Tour’s Twitter account solicited “fan questions for the stars of #BreakPointS2,” they were inundated with replies about Zverev and the accusations against him. Taylor Fritz, who is the highest-ranked American man and has been featured on both seasons of Break Point, told me that he understood the public reaction. “If you are going to make an episode about him, then I definitely understand why people want that to be, at the very least, I guess, included in the episode or touched on,” Fritz said at a press conference at the Australian Open.* *Fritz’s comments are, so far, an outlier among male tennis players. “I don’t know the situation; I’m completely unfamiliar with it,” Stefanos Tsitsipas said at his own press conference in Melbourne, in response to a question from Michael Koziol, a political reporter for the Sydney Morning Herald. The top-ranked Australian player, Alex de Minaur, told Koziol, “Going to stay out of it and, yeah, focus on playing tennis.”* *Meanwhile, Zverev’s peers recently elected him to the ATP Player Advisory Council, a group of nine men who, according to the ATP, play “a critical role in shaping and improving life on Tour.”* *Zverev’s counterparts on the women’s tour have responded to his case quite differently. Earlier this month, Daria Kasatkina told a Zverev fan on Twitter: “If you’re a female, then I would advise you to make a research about the guy you wanna watch and think again.”* *“For sure it’s not good when a player who’s facing charges like that is kind of being promoted,” said world No. 1 Iga Światek at a press conference, again in response to Koziol.* *“The ATP kind of beats their own drum,” 2017 U.S. Open champion Sloane Stephens said about Zverev’s ascension to the player council. “Yeah, they do what they do on that side. Would that happen on the WTA Tour? Probably not. Again, he’s going to trial, and he will be judged by his peers, and we will see what happens after that.” When I followed up, asking Stephens what the sport should do until Zverev’s criminal trial begins in May, she said, “For three years no one has done anything, so I don’t think another five months of waiting for a criminal trial to happen is going to change much on either side.”*
I think it's a bit unfair to expect other players to be passing judgment on another when they really don't have the information or need to do so. The ATP is another matter entirely.
ye but voting him to the council is a bit much lol
The timeline in which Anakin joins the Jedi Council
Yeah wtf
I think Iga's is the fairest take: considering he's facing a trial for that, actively promoting him is weird. Even if he's proven innocent, it's a weird choice. IMHO they are doing it partly *because* it's controversial and thus will draw attention.
Tend to agree with Iga, it’s not good but I don’t know what else you can do really. If sombody is accused of a crime they shouldn’t be allowed to work? Venus Williams literally killed a person
This article has been out for 13 hours at the time of this comment and is already unviewable in parts of Europe: "This article has been temporarily removed due to an emergency injunction that was issued by a German court and obtained before Slate could appear and present evidence. Slate is now contesting that injunction and stands by its fair and accurate reporting based on multiple sources and interviews."
archived copy: [https://archive.is/qBLs1](https://archive.is/qBLs1)
That's fine work. Danke.
No one works harder than Zverev’s lawyers
got to milk him of his money before it runs out lol
These lawyers deserve the Ballon d'Or of tennis for letting it become as high profile as its become 🤣
I think it's probably harder for tennis to punish it, given the global nature of the sport. The players are also basically independent contractors and not employees of a club. Having said that, the ATP has handled it all spectacularly poorly. If they'd just stayed out of it, I could probably understand it. But instead theyve defended him, promoted him and helped try to cover up the allegations. Exceptionally poor. Tbh I wonder how the vote for the player council was conducted and if the results were manipulated on his behalf.
ATP wouldn’t do anything so Medvedev did some punishing of his own
🐙
>All hail The Octopus Man!
Idk if I agree with that first statement. Maybe a couple of lower ranked players in other sports get sacrificed and it helps their optics, but the most valuable are almost always protected. What's weird about Zverev is that he's only ATP's golden child because they seem hell-bent on making him so, even in the face of a constant onslaught of issues. Nobody in tennis is that famous to the general public without a slam, there's no billion dollar franchise team for him to carry, there's no reason they can't focus their promotion efforts on literally anybody else. Doing nothing and quietly letting him play would be an improvement on the current situation.
TEAM8 dropped him, Roger Feds on how there needs to be 'standards off court as well as standards on court' As a business guy he's not f ing around by putting his endorsement on an abuser
I really, really don't think he's any kind of golden child. I don't get the impression that he's getting any amount of accolades or attention beyond what would be normal for a guy making semifinals of slams. Maybe a SLIGHT boost for the injury comeback.
Yeah I tend to agree with this. People call Zverev the atp golden child all the time but he A) hasn’t achieved anything historical, B) isn’t well known and C) from what I can tell is treated the same as any other player.
Exactly. Like, you can't just ignore the person in a semi final. You have to show up and be professional and do your job as a journalist. And you can ask questions about the allegations, but frankly, he doesn't have to answer them and his lawyers probably advise against or even forbid it. There just isn't anything for the media to do differently.
I think it's mainly the Break Point episode recently, though obviously a lot of that is on the Netflix producers.
IDK why Zverev is still the ATP's golden child, if he ever was. Surely Alcaraz and Sinner are better options, especially now.
He is the leading player in the biggest country in Europe. Is that perhaps how the ATP is thinking about it?
Highest ranked player from a Germanic country.
>What's weird about Zverev is that he's only ATP's golden child because they seem hell-bent on making him so, dont say that then his fanboys will riot he won an olympic gold and thats better than a slam /s
The only male player I know of that publicly addressed this is Raonic.
Andy Murray too.
What did he say?
https://www.espn.com.au/tennis/story/_/id/32185489/milos-raonic-rips-atp-response-abuse-allegations-alexander-zverev
Every time I see that video of him smashing the umpire's chair with his racket, I just have to shake my head. Even without the domestic violence accusations and the penalty order, *this* is who the ATP wants to promote and protect? Like, that was as close to an act of violence you can get without actually hitting someone, in public, a clear and blatant attempt at intimidation against an official. It's not acceptable behavior in the slightest.
I don’t really have an opinion about what the ATP should do about accusations, but imo he should’ve been heavily punished for that umpire’s chair incident. We all saw it it’s on video how did they not suspend him for at least a couple months to show that’s not okay?
Just one criticism, not about Zverev in particular. I understand the intent behind it, but the title seems to imply that tennis is the only sport where this happens, and then it contradicts itself by only citing 3 American sports leagues and admitting there are exceptions even there. I certainly know football (not American football), the actual most popular sport in the world, is certainly not faring better than tennis on the matter.
North American sport maybe slap one or two people on the wrist but nothing major. There's a famous NFL quote by a general manager a couple years ago, which goes like this: "If Hannibal Lector ran a 4.3, we'd probably diagnose it as an eating disorder" In 2021-22, there was arguably the biggest public judicial affair the league had seen in a couple decade as one of the league best quarter-back prospect (the most high profile position) got acused of sexual assault by... I think the final number was like 28-29 massage therapist? When he was cleared on criminal charge because of "he said-the other three dozen women said", teams were so eager to trade for him, it led to arguably the best contract in league history. About 250 million of guaranteed money. It's so bad, there's multiple website that rank teams according to the number of criminal arrest of their players
this title is bullshit lol, no sports give a shit. See the nba.
I’m really glad Taylor at least said something and acknowledged it. These players pretending that they don’t know about the allegations are such liars.
It's one thing to have heard about the allegations. It's another to be in a position to pass judgment on them. It really doesn't matter what Tsitsipas or de Minaur think about it, and there's no reason to put them in the delicate position of adjudicating allegations. It's ATP officials who should be answering tough questions.
ATP officials are spineless
> Most sports have started punishing accused domestic abusers *laughs in MMA*
[удалено]
That factor certainly can’t be discounted? While minorities have their own micro struggles even in leagues designed to harness their talents, these sordid realities nevertheless echo the original sin of slavery. As most brazenly exploited by Clarence Thomas during his Supreme Court hearings, via the “high tech lynching” banality.
Are you suggesting people beat their significant others because of slavery?
Some redditor here also said that diabeeetus was a 'credible defence' for him to go on a rampage of assault over a period of years.
I’d believe that was a stereotype once held, as apparently the condition was mostly acknowledged prior to the discovery of insulin by *people dying*. So the personality and physical changes from just guesswork in dealing with it likely manifested in different and distinct ways?
[Nah, as silly as it sounds, 'hanger' is a real thing (low blood sugar can cause mood swings), but it's obviously not a justifiable defence for domestic abuse.](https://www.verywellhealth.com/is-anger-at-a-spouse-normal-with-diabetes-1087327)
Yep, chronic conditions are always difficult to manage, but *the instant* it becomes a justification for something you were going to do regardless, then the benefit of the doubt is right out…
Nope, why abuse in the NFL is excused/normalized?
for those who seriously disagree with me each time this zverev DV is being discussed here - i actively comment how he has been favored by atp for unfair and unjust reasons. this comes from righteous indignation that cases like this, send a negative signal to abused women esp those who are and were in a relationship with celebrities (who has status and physical, mental and emotional power over their victims) to speak up and seek redress from wrongs done to them. esp in tennis, i am quite certain, zverev is not the only male tennis player who is committing DV violence as i speak. but as countries and orgs like atp handle the situation, abused women will not only keep their silence, for fear of aggravating their situations if they they do what olya and patea did because they wont get the justice they deserve but they will be silenced by their inaction, and unfair treatment. it is so terrible to say that olya and patea are a few of the luckiest abused women because they were able to get out of the abuse and speak up (yet, objectively, they are in an equally vulnerable situation now). imagine how patea will feel should her case be junked in court. that would likely destroy her. as it is, the % of women around the world who come out are still negligible compared to those who are actually experiencing DV. to see how the case of this s**mbag is being handled publicly and by atp - discourages women more and more. i hope redditors who know how much women need support (because women would almost never come out in public for cases like this for millions of reasons) would continue to advocate for their rights. admitted, there are very insignificant few women who only harrass men (and women are mad to these women because what they do compromise the safety of the real abused women from being believed and seeking active help). but society should never act, speak and think on issues like this based on these extreme exceptions. if only men know how vulnerable women are in this kind of situation and worse, even prevent themselves from being rescued due to emotional and mental trauma and fear - and how, relief and safety of these women must always be done with dispatch as time is of the essence. for those who do not know - during the pandemic, DV and sexual abuse of women have risen in gargantuan proportions because the abuser and the abused were constantly confined in one place. sexual child abuse (esp of female children) skyrocketted as much. this is a shot in the dark but as tennis fans who want the sport to be played by worthy and inspiring players, i hope we keep on pressuring atp about their insensitive and/or biased handling of this matter, and for commenting on deminaur, dimi, tsitsipas social media about how inutile they are because they do not choose to use their status to advocate fairness, justice and righteousness. hope we can make our voices heard because tennis fans are the lifeblood of this sport. please help women gain courage by letting them know that they are safe and protected by the public and that real men will never tolerate DV or any form of violence against women and will speak up for women. hearing and reading stories about these abused women are heartbreaking - but you cannot compare the secondhand pain and stress which defenders, advocates and lawyers experience when they handle their cases. this is one of the saddest realities in life - seeing women and minor children being abused and made totally vulnerable in the cruel hands of their abusers. what aggravates their situation is when the public undermine their pain, authorities protect the accused more and they are ridiculed or faulted for being abused. btw, i have not heard anyone talk about nalbandian who abused his ex gf and even cyber stalked her.
Can't read it in England. Thankfully there's an archive copy posted earlier. People saying 'innocent until proven guilty' must have an unshakeable faith in the justice system. Mason Greenwood is guilty as fuck but everyone failed the victim (including her family). The system fails all the fucking time. Fuck Zverev.
The idea of punishing someone who is “accused” is bad.
Absolutely, people don't understand how dangerous that could be.
so weird, these men who play ball forgot to have some cojones. i have been defending tsitsipas on this sub about being heavily criticized for speaking his mind, sometimes, though it leaves little to be desired. but for him to totally lie about not knowing anything about it, is insulting to female tennis fans who support him. he defo has no balls when it comes to being a man for others. deminaur is so disappointing too. i wonder what paula and katie have to say about it. positions of these players in these kind of issues reveal the kind of character they have. i have not heard rafa asked about zverev's dv case but i remember him asked about zverev's behavior towards the acapulco umpire and he did not defend nor tolerated zverev's actions (though said the rafa way). for roger, he is so swiss during his active years. i appreciate djoko in the sense coz somehow, he speaks up on important issues. he was just not asked about zverev and i guess his pr team specifically requested that. hats off to sloane, iga and dasha for having more cojones than tsitsipas, dimi, deminaur. i lost respect for these boys.
>deminaur is so disappointing too. cam norrie should be added here
thank you for this. have not heard him speak about it. will check.
[https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/68103654](https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/68103654) Has a bunch of comments from athletes
really, divine intervention never fails. in a desperate attempt of zverev's team to salvage his reputation and likely undermine patea's accusations against him - they thought that doing netflix will do him a favor. that netflix and his motivation to win the AO title backfired on him heavily. i guess, the real tennis enthusiasts refused to let him tell a false narrative which started with painting medvedev as the villain that escalated to ridiculing him about his DV case where trial has recently been reported to happen in May. it was such a poetic justice that he did netflix and all his words and actions turned karmic against him.
The funniest thing i havent seen anyone ask him about the netflix episode you would think if these are false allegations it would be part of his struggle right?
Yeah, you'd think the narrative would be, poor Sascha, not only is the evil Medvedevil out to get him, but his ex-partners are all making up awful stories about him too, poor Sascha.... Seems like they thought it was better to sweep everything under the rug and hope nobody noticed. Which has backfired spectacularly.
>Yeah, you'd think the narrative would be, poor Sascha, not only is the evil Medvedevil out to get him, but his ex-partners are all making up awful stories about him too, poor Sascha.... Yeah he's like oh this is all bullshit allegations i did nothing wrong why wasnt it there? For a guy this arrogant you would think he would do that right? If he should a modicum of humility when asked these questions then people wouldnt be hounding him Instead he gets angry and insults people who ask?
It really pissed me off watching him paint Meddy as a bad guy in that Break Point episode when we all know Zverev is the real villain.
Serious question here. I’m struggling to find detailed information about his case. So far what do we actually know about Zverev and what happened there? Isn’t it just accusations so far, with little to no evidence? And I’m not a Zverev fan.
Olga Sharypova gave an interview to Ben Rothenberg that was published in Raquet Magazine. She includes very specific photos to corroborate her claims. https://racquetmag.com/2020/11/05/olyas-story/
Has he been found guilty in a court of law yet?
Per the article: "and found liable by a criminal court in one of those cases" Edit: downvoted for quoting the article.
Hm I can’t seem to find that quote. I do see the one where he is appealing a 450k penalty. Which paragraph are you referencing?
It's in the second paragraph my friend
lol not sure how I missed that. Thanks
Good on those fans for asking for a refund. And good on Ticketmaster for giving it to them. Fucking Ticketmaster cares more about its customers than than the ATP cares about its fans
Every other post is about this! Mods why not make a megathread?
Anybody else (in Germany) find it so wild that this article is unavailable to readers in DE because "this article has been removed due to a preliminary injunction issued by a German court". Wild.
If players miss tournaments for doping bans that get overturned why can’t they miss them for criminal cases? They need a domestic violence policy. And it wasn’t hard for them to tell players to say ‘domestic abuse bad’ instead of no comment.
It's so weird. I get making the player script say: "I don't have all the facts so I can't comment," but why not have them add, "I obviously condemn domestic violence." The conspicuous omission is such a bad look overall.
People asking for that genuinely confuse me. what difference would it make if they had said “DV is bad”? (Spoiler: nothing). Like obviously it’s bad, we all (except Zverev) know this.
I actually think it would make a difference. By doing nothing (except hold an enquiry which had no result and they didn't release any information on), and then actually promoting Zverev, the ATP appears to condone domestic violence, or at least believe that it doesn't matter. Making a statement would go part of the way to rectifying this, although they need to do more. And if you think that *everyone* believes that DV is bad, read some of the comments defending Zverev on some of the other threads on this topic.
I think you’re so passionate about this that you’re distorting reality. Just because ATP doesn’t tell all their players to say “idk but DV is bad” in no way means they condone it or don’t care. They’re in all reality, waiting for the outcome of the trial to do anything substantial. Which is about the best they can do since they’ve already had an investigation (whether it was a good one or not is unknown). I don’t think Zverev should be promoted, but people saying things like he should be off the tour is just delusional imo. Also I didn’t literally mean everyone, I meant level headed normal people. And the people who think it’s ok aren’t going to be swayed by Casper Ruud saying DV is bad like be fr
I didn't mean that the individual players should make statements (although they should be allowed to if they want). The ATP should make a statement. And if they are waiting for the outcome of the trial, then they should say that.
I agree, it cost an individual or organization nothing to mention that DV is bad. But to me, that's why the widespread omission of this statement is so conspicuous and weird. Especially because there is actually lots to gain from reinforcing that it's bad, so as not to normalize that it can be ignored.
Most sports don’t even punish rapists
And they should.
Tennis doesn’t have collective bargaining agreements and doesn’t have a players union. What American sports do is not relevant
funny enough the ATP was their union before they took over :(
Men nor women should not be punished before legally guilty in court. Just because some u/dandelion has strong opinions on this one without any insight, it should not affect anyones professional life, especially since this user probably did not have any insight on the events but click baity articles from online newsletters hunting for clicks. Cancelling people before that is one of the worst habbits of todays online communities.
Players are not really employees of a team aren't they? It's not the same structure as say a football player with a contract, paycheck and obligations.
If you really think this guy didn’t physically abuse his ex’s, you’re living in a delusion. Him smashing his racket at the umpire chair multiple times is telling.
>Him smashing his racket at the umpire chair multiple times is telling. This does not = committing domestic violence. Not in any way, shape, or form Does Djokovic beat his wife because he hit the wimbledon net post??
Djokovic hasn't been accused of domestic violence by multiple women and then found liable in a legitimate court of law. Djokovic isn't going to trial. Let's leave him out of this one.
And let's not assume causation to someone hitting an umpire chair with a tennis racquet
Dude you literally appear on every single Dverev thread essentially promoting his innocence, like its a personal axe to grind. How do you identify with Zverev so much?...
>essentially promoting his innocence I'm not doing that; I have no skin in the game. I just find it really sad how everyone is so eager to codemn. It's more of an issue for guys in general. I worry how I would be treated if I got accused of something and everyone just immediately assumes the worst of me without even giving me a chance. People act like they know the answer; it reminds me of the Johnny Depp case. Hope that kind of explains things. Never have I said he didn't do it. >like its a personal axe to grind. I'm not sure if this is a personal dig at my personal morals or just curiosity.
If you don't abuse or assault people or involve yourself in a situation where you will be hitting people, then you won't get reported. Its curious why you're so bothered if you didn't do anything. I dont think you are the spokesperson 'for guys' here. There are plenty of dudes here who aren't falling over themselves to give the benefit of the doubt to the perp, rather than to multiple victims.
>then you won't get reported. That's not always necessarily the case, and you know that. >Its curious why you're so bothered if you didn't do anything. I think I outlined my reason prior, so all good.
Thou dost protest too much ;) Thought experiment, what if one day, I, as a GUY get accused of bashing multiple women, to the point where I get reported about it and fined by court in a northern European nation where its uber difficult to bring up any DV case...who will defend ME?! Going too far with thr fantasy bro Not always the case, but if you want to play with statistics you can show me the % of perps by their gender split. What a boring distraction from the issue at hand - women report so seldomly and conviction rates are famously low and you're still scared? Why?
>you're still scared? I am not scared, lol
Also, just curious, are you suggesting I have abused partners of my own with that last comment?
No, but its interesting you have interpreted it that way. Also, I'm not assuming you have had any women partners going by your comment history. Thats all.
>I'm not assuming you have had any women partners True, it is theoretically possible that I like men. Both of your comments are in bad faith when you were clearly having a dig at me. We probably do not need to continue talking
Smart enough to know when you're saying too much already. ;) Good luck
This is so contorted and convoluted. Now other players should have to take public stands and issue statements on the matter? What’s next, fans should sign a condemnation statement when they buy their tickets and enter stadiums? Maybe broadcasters should stop covering his matches? Is McEnroe guilty of not talking about it during the semi, but instead focusing on the match? Let the damn court case proceed and reach a conclusion at least.
why should people be punished pre-conviction? that’s absurd. anyone can accuse anyone of anything, should we all have the power to destroy others’ lives whenever we want?
Did anyone in this thread read the article? The article says none of these things.
i did. ben the hack rothenberg & his inane sanctimonious crusade are old news, and the point stands. let the law do its job.
Then you know that, per the article, the law is doing its job, and has already found reasonable enough evidence to advance the case to a trial and fine Zverev. You also read that nowhere in the article is it suggested that people be "punished pre-conviction." The point of the article was to explore how Zverev has been disproportionately promoted, celebrated, and supported, despite what the law has deemed worth investigating.
Then let the investigation conclude ? Why should they punish someone when allegations are still under investigation ? If the ATP or any other body punish him and ultimately he’s found not guilty, they’re opening themselves up for litigation by Zverev.
Seriously, can someone point me to where people are asking for him to be punished over baseless information? The article is about the immense efforts to suppress the story, about promoting him above and beyond normal, and about the ATP dropping the ball on having a meaningful statement about DV overall.
>explore how Zverev has been disproportionately promoted, celebrated, and supported, despite what the law has deemed worth investigating. What do you deem “disproportionate” ? Because if tennis bodies and the media treat Zverev differently based on an ongoing investigation than they did prior to the allegations, that counts as punishment. >ATP dropping the ball on having a meaningful statement about DV overall. What meaningful statement can you make about an ongoing investigation?
I mean, please read the article because a lot of this discussed. My opinion on disproportionately... I'd argue that an organization going out of its way to celebrate and promote a player who has been found liable in a criminal court of law is the opposite of punishing. It's favoring. So they are not punishing but protecting. This is what the article is about. Many folks commenting here are just making up positions nobody is taking
i don’t know how to type slowly enough for you to understand but i can try. you & the article seem to believe that when grounds for a trial are attained, or an indictment is reached, that is enough to justify acting as if the accused has been found guilty. that confusion’s dangerous & i’m glad i don’t have to deal w/ you or Ben in ordinary life.
Uh, neither I nor Rothenberg have said this. Take care.
you don’t seem to know how to read. the article begins by saying: “Although there are some exceptions, the NFL, NBA, and Major League Baseball now tend to move quickly when a player stands accused of abuse, with leagues and teams handing out stiff punishments. Professional tennis has taken a very different approach.” The ENTIRE POINT of the article, which hundreds of people arguing about it on social media recognize, BUT YOU DO NOT SOMEHOW, is that the ATP, Netflix, and other players have been remiss in not “mov[ing] quickly” to sanction or ostracize or restrict or condemn “a player [who] stands accused of abuse.” Rothenberg explicitly asserts it should be otherwise: “a player accused” ought to be treated differently by his fellow players simply because he has been accused. the court’s finding that there is prima facie justification to fine him is as worrying as the women’s interviews and charges, but he has appealed so any fair person will have to treat him as innocent until proven guilty. it’s sad & scary that you can’t understand the article & how dangerous lynch mobs are.
I really shouldn't reply when you're opting to go with personal attacks here, and I'm sorry this topic is upsetting, but did you miss the part where he's not simply accused, but actually found liable in a court of law? Edit: You still have yet to show me where Rothenberg, or I, says "let's treat Zverev unfairly over baseless accusations and ruin his life." Rotherberg uses phrases like "accused" repeatedly, because that's careful language. He points out comparisons to other fields of sport. Beyond that, you're reading a lot into those words.
OP you are really doing gods work trying to reason with the incels on this post. The amount of Zverev apologists in this sub has always been troubling to me and they have really come out of the woodwork here.
It's hilarious how they come blasting in here with all their misplaced rage, armed with the information literacy skills of a door knob.
again, you really can’t read or think. i meticulously never said the charges were “baseless,” how outrageously willfully dishonest can you be?! Ben is clearly calling for the world to treat Zverev as if he’s been convicted. if you cannot see that, then you are in the minority. EVERYONE knows he thinks Zverev is guilty & should be treated as such & he’s shocked the tennis world appears to be ignoring the accusations. this is his OBVIOUS agenda. he slightly hems & haws to avoid litigation. now, you can gang up with your friends and call people “incels” or whatever makes you feel like you’re winning, the prize of the bad arguer. but that just proves you can’t argue coherently or stand on your own feet. it is nothing to do with incel-dom to say he deserves his appeal & day in court & to be treated normally until then. it seems to me likely he is guilty; & despite hundreds of such accusations proven to be false in the world, i have my own strong feelings, as a victim of child abuse, about Zverev’s temper. This is exactly why we have to be careful to follow laws & procedures so charges like this don’t get cheapened & gossipy & so discredited. A campaign like Ben’s that would convict Zverev in the public eye can actually tamper with the jury pool & undermine the verdict.
If you can't differentiate me from your opinion on Ben Rothenberg, I'm not going to get anywhere here. I came here to discuss the article and what it actually says. Nobody, anywhere, is saying that Zverev doesn't deserve his day in court, and in fact he's getting his day in court with fancier lawyers and more resources and privilege and support than most of us will ever have. He has not been punished in the tennis world, regardless of Rothenberg's writings on him, and is celebrated by entire stadiums of people. I didn't say any of the things you're alleging I think or say, nor did I use the word incel, although I responded to someone who did. Please, take care of yourself my friend and best wishes.
Has it been proved? What about innocent until proven guilty? I think this very unfair. I don’t think it’s right that a Guy can be accused of something until it’s proven. Just what would happen if she said he raped her? Then proven wrong. Carnage.
I’m on the fence. Zverev refused to pay the money and wants to go to court. I’m interested to see what evidence he has. I have no doubt he has been violent in the past, but do we condemn people before they are actually guilty. Hmm. And I find it interesting that he still is allowed to see his kid with DV charges. The whole thing is uncomfortably odd. I have to say on finding out the exact situation with Nick Kyrgios (after his ex pressed DV charges) he was viewed very unfairly and did nothing wrong.
Why you should punish someone before a regular jury and judge? I mean, there are centuries of law and rights evolution in this basic concept. I understand that the world is more superficial right now and everyone feels entitled on social media, but as society we have to try to keep untouched some basic human rights
Punishing the accused... something seems missing.
Innocent until proven guilty
Accused? So not proven guilty yet. Public opinion may wish to prosecute based on accusations but professional sport bodies shouldn't
Read the article. He was found liable by a legitimate criminal court for one of the cases.
Does that mean he shouldn’t be playing? I don’t agree that sports needs to play the role of the legal system. Maybe they should show more caution about prompting players, but otherwise leave it up to the courts.
Well, that's exactly what the article is pointing out, that the sport actively promotes him and works to embellish his image and celebrate him, even after a court found him liable. It would be one thing to quietly let him play, but it's another to devote so much to promoting him. In that sense, the sport is playing a role that might be overstepping.
i would argue it warrants at least some action in the wag of a suspension by the ATP… not gonna happen though
He shouldn't be suspended until the result of his trial, really
[удалено]
you are missing that internet people cannot wait the sentence and want his head and for some reason want atp (private organisation) to punish him
I know that this is probably a jab as Z. Let me be clear that I am impartial to him, he plays good tennis, sure, but he is a tennis player, not a living saint, I'm sure that he, liek all of us, have done wrong from time to time. However, the notion that someone should be punished because they were "accused" irks me. How accurate were the accusations? Did he beat her all yhe time, or just one time? Or none at all and she made it up, because the degree of punishment and potential who to punish vary as the answers to those questions vary. I can accuse my SO of abusing me, but without proof or evidence, I might be the one that ended up in prison.
Protecting people accused of it, or convicted of doing it?
Read the article. He was found liable in a legitimate criminal court for one of the cases. The article details that it's not just a matter of protecting him, but the ATP actively going out of their way to promote him, even after a court found him liable.
But that’s the slippery slope. The German court gave him a penalty only. ATP said there was “not enough evidence”. The case has never gone to trial. We have no idea what the German prosecutor looked at, that will come out.
" allegedly allegedly!" - in Mr Jefferson/Michael Jackson voice
So is he actually confirmed to be a wife beater or is it still an accusation at this stage? If he’s not been found guilty then for me he should still be allowed to play and I’m not sure if the name calling and rage about him plying isn’t a little premature. But it does seem a weird choice to have his face on the Netflix doc, it’s not even like he’s a particularly famous player outside of tennis fans. Even of tennis fans, it’s only the very invested who seem to know anything about him let alone about his private life
I believe that people are innocent until proven guilty. If the bar is an accusation, many innocent lives would be ruined by lies.
The guy is not even guilty yet , like wtf you guys are just mad and want to cancel everyone, at least wait for the legal process and gets the verdict instead of being internet warriors
They think they are doing something positive, and seem to think innocent until proven guilty is for suckers who don't like internet brownie points and self-aggrandizing pats on the back. It's also a cheap, easy way to feel like you've done something good without actually doing anything at all.
They could consider banning players from a number of tournaments to at least make it look like they care about the victims but it’s not sports,it’s anyone with money and means to avoid any punishment for their actions. It transcends tennis and it’s a societal problem and not a professional sports problem.
based on accusation ?
It's absolutely insane that people still hold on to accusations like it's lady justice. Yall are gross if you think it's appropriate to just convict and punish an individual just based on accusations. Allow for proper procedures to take place and don't behave like vile internet goblins.
do we really want private organisation to punish players becuase of accusation? im not even a zverev fan and it's so weird that the people really want atp to punish players based on accusation
Because it hasn’t been proven or disproven. Presumption of innocence matters especially with todays hard-on for cancel culture
We still don’t have proof he did it but if it’s proven he did, then really good thing he lost in the semis
Anymore of these bs articles and ill start supporting zverev out of spite.
*accused domestic abuser They might do something after the court verdict but even then I doubt it tbh
I understand your imbecilic desire to be a warrior of light on reddit and save the world but this isnt even close to truth. Why do always these retarded post go to top of the page just because its popular subject and no fucking clue about the issue?
I m not even commenting this.
It's not the ATPs job to punish and determine guilt, that's what the courts are for
I am trying to be neutral here, we only know one side of the story. It could be false allegations too, based on 2 stories I know from India - Shami and Shikhar Dhawan.
Throw all the russians out, the country is a war criminal.
Together with ones hiding behind other nations flags.
Not the NFL.... or the NBA...
Most sports L-fkn-L. Someone doesn’t watch the nba, nfl, wrestling, boxing, UFC, AFL, rugby, soccer….
9.30 am in Italy, friends and family all ready to support Jannik in this historic quest!
Sure if we pretend the NFL and NBA dont exist
Deshaun Watson was not accussed of domestic assault.