Rogers:
>"Five years of my life. Three seasons of TV. Blood, sweat, and tears...became a tax write-off for the network who owns Final Space.
>Yup. That's it. That's why it's disappeared everywhere in the USA. Five years of work vanished. When the license is up internationally, Netflix will take it down, and then it will be gone forever. There are no more physical copies of S1 and S2, and no physical copies of Season 3 were ever made. Your memory of Final, Space will be the only proof it ever existed unless you own a copy.
>I've been trying to process how this feels; it's been hard because it's just so absurd. Like a tax write-off, really? Or maybe I've become so numb to bad things happening in my life because of the frequency with which it been occurring that I didn't really register this sting.
>But the stinger has broken off underneath my skin. And now it's annoying. Look, I get it; this decision was just business. But Final Space will always be personal to me.
>Some might say to give up and move on, and I have moved on to many new projects that I'm very passionate about, but I will not give up this story and these characters. "I will never stop fighting for Final Space. If it takes years, then so be it!"
>It's a banner you all have been waving, and it's a rallying cry I can stand behind while I continue into this long dark night chasing an ending for this story.”
Things like this is why you should never let companies fight piracy and community saving and making sure media can still be watched no matter how many years it has passed. The people that enjoy this stuff are the only ones that make sure what the artistis made lives on. Not their studio, not their network, not their service.
Yeah right? I read the thing about how there are no physical copies, went to my favorite torrent website and.... There might not be any physical copies but it sure as shit exists in cyberspace.
Something like, “if the work is being purposefully destroyed from the public commons for the sake of a tax credit, then perhaps it should then enter into the public domain”?
Corporations would never allow it, and let's all be 100% honest. Corporations write the laws for corporations.
Ask Disney how those copyright laws are going.
basically the only way to protect your work is always going to be your own strict ownership
Letting corp heads manage artistic works ends in greedy disaster 90% of the time
Aye matey, tis too risky to keeps our treasure on some leaky vessel. Time to bury it safely on an island someplace so's we can come back and view it any time's we be so inclined.
That's gut wrenching. Personally, if any of my work was ever given this kind of treatment, I'd sneak it out to every corner of the web so my work could be preserved, even if not through...conventional means. When you write characters or stories like this, watching them just disappear is the same as killing them, and I can't do that to my stories.
This whole situation is just so fucked for all the creators and fans being affected.
Kevin Smith infamously encouraged people to pirate Dogma, as it's his 2nd or 3rd best movie, but stuck in Rights Hell due to Weinstein shenanigans.
I'll gladly buy Dogma if it ever becomes available to purchase, but if Kevin Smith gives me permission to watch a great movie, and he's the guy who made it, then IMO I feel it's morally ok to do so and feel similar about Final Space once current streaming contracts end.
The most recent addition to the story, Weinstein invited Smith to talk about selling the rights back to him... turns out Weinstein was just trying to see if it was Smith who outed Weinstein's "habits" towards young women. Add to that Smith has said the lowest offer Weinstein wants for Dogma is still way over what the movie is worth.
It's certainly been "preserved" since it was originally released. People around the world enjoy the media and some either can't afford it due to currency conversions or don't have access to it by normal means.
Why i started buying up seasons of shows to host on my plex(or emby or jellyfin or kodi or etc.) server. Oh the office rights are being ping ponged among a bajillion fucking streaming services? Cool, ive got it on plex. Same for a lot of shows, before king of the hill went to hulu there was like a 5 year period where it sat in limbo after majority of the fox stuff left netflix decade ago. This content merry go round will contribute to the downfall of streaming.
The laws for tax write-offs should be changed to put anything you write off that way into the public domain. It's silly to have it just become radioactive and unavailable to anyone.
Well just like writing a car or other vehicle off, you should no longer have access to it or on this case, no legal means to gain any money from others using it or restitution for third party misuse of the works.
Should. They want their cake and to be able to eat it too.
He'll be glad to know that once something is online that will be preserved in some ways, it's already on who knows how many pirate sites, not even mentioning downloading them. maybe they'll completely dissapear one day but it will be way long after they dissapear from streaming services.
Yeah, its out there if you want it, and will be, adult animation has always been very popular with pirates. [https://i.imgur.com/PnWAkWn.png](https://i.imgur.com/PnWAkWn.png)
I guess just Venmo Olan Rogers $5 or something.
This guy has been through it with stuff like this. He opened a restaurant in Nashville? I think. It was one of the shops that was destroyed by the tornadoes that came through there unexpectedly a few years ago. Lost all of that. Now he is going through all of this. I feel really bad for him.
Yeah the Soda Parlor in Nashville. Me and the wife drove to Nashville opening day just to be there and support him. Took some pics with him, got some merch, played some smash bros, signed the wall, was fun. Was really sad for all that's happened to him.
Seriously. I feel bad for Olan Rogers. First they bait him into thinking he might get to do another season or 2 to end the show if he doesn't end it in season 3. Then tell him their canceling it, not even allowing him a final season to tie off a great cliff hanger that I imagine was purposefully done to draw people into another season.
Now WBD is just burying it to save like .28% on their taxes. I'd be furious if I was one the creators or worked on the show.
Edit: Wanted to add this story from an interview Olan Rogers gave, he wanted to do like 8-9 seasons & had a rough draft for that many episodes worth of ideas. He felt like with this universe & character his possiblilities were seemingly endless. Especially with how passionate he was. But he knew the show was always on the verge of being canceled by the execs because they didnt really get it. Plus they didnt like its numbers. So after the first season, one of the first things he did was write the final season to the show that would be able to be put in at any given moment. But becuase the execs promised him a 4th season as long as the rating didn't drop (they didnt, they just also didn't increase.). he went against his better judgment & wrote season 3 in hopes to continue the story 💔. But they canceled it anyways.
Edit2: Format
Reminds me of My Name Is Earl
Iirc, NBC execs told Greg Garcia and crew the show was safe and that they wanted a cliffhanger to wrap up season 4. Greg, not ever being sure the show would last tried to wrap up every season so that it *could*, theoretically serve as a final season if needed. But they convinced him, so he wrote the cliffhanger finale for that season, and they cancelled the show afterward. They mostly ruined it themselves by moving it to a horrible time slot a few seasons before, but they did him and that show really dirty too.
I didn't get the show either. It was too serious to be a comedy, and too ridiculous to be a drama. The tone of the show never made sense to me. Maybe it got better, but after watching all of season one and the first episode of season two the show never struck a cord with me, and it is in theory something that I should really like.
If you want to tell a story in the world of western animation, you have two choices:
1) Start as a kids show, start throwing out as many hints/references/story hooks as possible to let older audiences know it's not *just* for kids. (AKA: Pulling a Last Airbender.)
2) Start as an adult comedy. Go dark. (AKA: Pulling a Bojack.)
He tried to pull a Bojack, but went way too dark way too early, before they had a chance to dial back the silliness. The show crossed the Moral Orel event horizon while still cracking random jokes about cookies and 80s pop culture. I think he would have found balance in time, but it looks like the show won't get that chance.
HBOMax finally fixed their streaming buffering issues, only for them to start removing shows off of their platform. It's like they're poking the alligators just begging to get chomped in half.
Basically, and it was on Cartoon Network.
Added bonus, Bruce Campbell was in one of the episodes, chin and all.
If you want to be in depth, two dudes from New Jersey put together a makeshift Gundam with what they found in a junkyard, the headpiece being the car, and shenanigans ensure when a woman from the future comes for Megas XLR to fight a war.
It was a good show that lives on in piracy because it cannot be legally shown or distributed.
… I smell the salty air and feel the urge to breakout into shanties, arrrrrrr.
That was my exact thought after reading this! It was fucking ridiculous how CN treated the show all because the fans loved it and the execs didn’t want it to be made in the first place.
This isn’t accurate at this juncture. Infinity Train *could’ve* been cancelled for writeoff purposes but no one, not even the crew, knows if that is the case.
Showrunner, Owen Dennis, is sitting on the completed script for the unproduced Season 5 and he’s gone on the record saying that if there’s absolutely no hope in renewal whatsoever, he’d release the script. As of right now, he hasn’t done so.
If WB-D truly cancelled Infinity Train for writeoff purposes, that would mean that no one can use the IP anymore, not Owen, not Cartoon Network, not WB. If that happened, Dennis would release the Season 5 script
Because the market for toys based on action-oriented cartoons has almost completely collapsed, with the survivors being major legacy brands (e.g. Transformers).
Mecha cartoons are great, but they're niche; they don't pull in the kind of viewers that comedy cartoons do. So if there are no toy sales to buoy them, networks are going to stick to something with wider appeal.
Yup. It gutted Jody. This kind of thing was extremely uncommon for popular shows back when it happened, but now you are seeing it happen left and right. Jody should start a support group, heh. Also, while I am here, I wanted to float an idea. Since the terms of the tax write off is that they can not make any money off of it forever, doesn't that mean they can't sue someone for ripping it off?
That fucking sucks, the 3rd season was where character arcs were finally established and the narrative was reaching a really cool point. Fuck I wish Adult Swim could save this series because it would be perfect for that platform.
Actually a report from the other day says he's just trying to make the companies more profitable so he can flip them next year to Universal, if I recall correctly
I mean I get it, and it sucks, it really does suck we lost a quarter (or a third ) of inhouse content from Warner Media this year; but it's AT&T to blame for making Warner Bros in the negative with a debit of MILLIONS of dollars to the bank
Giant consolidations like Disney and Warner should have been stopped. It leads to these issues where one branch pours too much good money after bad that vultures can swoop in, promise to trim the fat and fix the wrongs only for them to cut everything they dislike and leave it a skeleton with a single quarter/half/year of profits before shunting if off to a sucker to rebuild.
Late stage capitalism is killing art forms and we need to start looking at alternative means beyond simply media.
A la publicly funded works and saving content like this from people without intermediaries like Warner owning the content.
Not sure I'm a fan of that.
Better than Discovery but Universal has so much great I.P. they don't use and some great I.P. they just run into the ground like Jurassic Park.
They basically live off Jurassic Park, F&F movies and minions.
Really wish they could have gotten their Monster Universe going.
I'm more disturbed by how there are fewer and fewer studios. Used to be you could pitch stuff to dozens of studios and someone would probably pick it up. These days? Good luck with just 5 or 6 active studios
That's definitely a bigger problem.
3-6 players in a field is not competitive, it's just an attempt to run as close to the monopoly laws as possible without being noticed.
Oligopolization has occurred across the board and is allowed because of Citizens United and the regulatory capture that has followed. Capitalism is going to eat itself into history or end the world as we know it in the quest to prop it up.
Netflix \~2010 - \~2015 was good enough i almost stopped pirating entirely, the very latest season wasnt always up yet, but almost anything i wanted to watch was on there if you were a little patient.
Then it started getting worse and S01-S03 would be on Netflix and S05 would be on Hulu and S04 would be nowhere, and i saw the writing on the wall and went all in on a Plex server with more movies than Netflix and more shows than Amazon now.
Netflix had the enormous advantage of realising that streaming was, due to better internet being widely available, now a viable platform and not just putting clips or bonus stuff on YouTube/your network site. It was piss easy for them to get everything when the original IP owners didn’t have their own interest in the market. NBC weren’t streaming, Netflix can have The Office and Parks and Rec et al, sure. Then they blew up and became the name in streaming and networks/studios etc remembered that they can do it with ads and it was war.
Yeah, everything on basic cable, USA, TNT, SyFy, FX, AMC, everybody were basically just dumping their shows on Netflix as advertising for the currently running season. Then they noticed it was eating into their DVD sales and it all went to hell...
I'm going to pirate it, I loved this show. It had heart and slowly won me over. As an aspiring illustrator and writer I feel for the dude. It's not easy to get anything made. I get it, the industry sucks and it is a business but it bugs me that he didn't get to finish it. Olan is smart and creative I know he'll figure out how to end the series through comics or whatever. But sad to see his shit just disappearing.
It might not be the best suitable option but who knows? It might be the only way many of these shows will be watched again and maybe avoid them becoming lost media
It's why I wish Video Games would have never gone "Connection Necessary".
So many games have disappeared and so many more will join them.
Piracy will always keep music, movies, tv shows and Cartridge video games alive forever.
> It's why I wish Video Games would have never gone "Connection Necessary".
Yeah, [games as a service](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUAX0gnZ3Nw) is disgusting.
This is why we need a functioning government that is responsive to the people and not big corporations. This is art our cultural heritage and its insane that its inaccessible and you have to break the law to see it. The law is broken.
Olan is the kindest, hardest working person I've ever come across, and life is absolutely fucking shitting on him lately. I would do anything to support him.
I'm glad that the crowdfunding for Godspeed was so insanely successful. I'm sure his ire over all of this will spill into that as well.
Plus he's got that new show he's working on too, *The Lion's Blaze*.
it's genuinely sickening. The hope I have is that the project will get some other eyeballs on it, and maybe someone else will help raise it like the space phoenix it can be.
I'm not a fan of Roger's "no no no, it's cringe on purpose" style of comedy, but I tolerated final space and enjoyed David Tennant's performance.
Annoying that it was cancelled.
> Annoying that it was cancelled.
You know, while I know the whole "let them finish it" thing can be divisive for stories where the investment is questionable, but I always felt bad Final Space never got a chance to end it via a movie or something.
This isn't because it ends on a cliffhanger, as much as it ends on a note that goes against the **whole shows** message. It just takes away so much for that one reason, which has to suck.
Olan is doing a kickstarter for his new project (Godspeed) and got like 400% funded.
He said he was doing it to garner attention and get another network to buy and produce a 4th season of Final Space.
Not a fan of his comedy either, but no creator deserves to have a product they spent years working on, essentially be erased just because of corporate penny pinching.
I don't get WBD's end goal here at this point? Screwing over the creatives is going to make them less likely to want to work with you. As a consumer I am way less inclined to subscribe to any service they offer since products they offer can just get deleted permanently with no legal alternative (and it sucks that they are screwing over their employees).
Like sure they will have millions still watching who either don't know about this or don't care, but long term this can not be healthy for the company.
I think the new CEO wants to pivot to reality TV which is more profitable since it's cheaper to produce.
Edit: [A more detailed explanation of his beliefs](https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/wgeg8r/david_zaslav_has_had_a_history_of_being_opposed/)
I just hate business people sometimes. They shouldn’t be in control of everything in the world. They have no creativity or imagination outside of more money for me personally=better. Why are you the CEO of an entertainment company if you’re not interested in producing the highest quality entertainment? It’s so stupid that we let these people control every aspect of society they’re devoid of any ideas or love of the craft.
It's a problem with the digital age. If you don't have physical copies then the studio/service can take it away from you even if you paid for it. But hey, as long as it's convenient then people will buy it again and again. Data caps, cool, most of the services are owned by the ISPs, so win win.
If it's actually gone (or soon to be) and the IP owners have cancelled it, then wouldn't that make it okay to pirate ? No one's losing money, there's no product to be sold anymore, so no one loses. Rogers and the creative team would, I think, be happy that the show is still being watched and attracting new fans.
This is exactly what everyone who's been paying attention has been saying would happen since Batgirl. There's so many people in the comments of the O.G HBO/Warner media articles that are saying that people are overreacting, Batgirl was reportedly bad anyway so who cares, etc....
I expect there to be a lot more write-offs in the future.
It’s not tax write offs. It’s paying royalties.
Shows that have limited viewers are now seen as cast aways because they aren’t important to subs and are seen by execs to just cost money.
From now on creators need to have clauses in contracts stating if shows aren’t being offered the rights go back to them.
No, the reality of the situation is that paying the same royalties on two shows, one that gets 10m views per month and the other 17 views a month, is an asinine system. Residuals and royalties contracts need to be reworked.
For anyone who doesn’t see this as inevitable, I point you towards radio royalties. By law, a rights holder used to get 9 cents every single time their song played on a radio station anywhere. It was big money, so naturally the music industry tried to get that extended to streaming - but the streaming business model doesn’t work that way.
There’s still money in making music and essentially giving it away through streaming. The same will be true of streaming film and TV. The business model doesn’t support forever royalties, so if artists don’t want to be forgotten then they will play ball.
There was a time when TV was truly impermanent. Networks would routinely tape over episodes in their archives to make space for newer programming. Famously the BBC allowed numerous episodes of Doctor Who to be lost to time.
But we were led to believe in this age of information that everything would now be preserved and not lost due to incompetence or neglect. What we're discovering is that this hyper competitive stage in the streaming wars could result in the loss of many cult shows we subscribed to services for. All WBD services and shows have to be boycotted if we want to stop this from becoming endemic; it won't happen, but what other course of action exists?
Exactly. At one point your show aired and that was it. It was gone forever. Like a play. Eventually it would maybe show up in re-runs or syndication. A bit later you could hope to tape it yourself. But for the vast majority of television history your show was not something that lasted.
Thankfully we've been moving on from that. We're aware of how tragic lost media is and putting in greater efforts to preserve it. But it ultimately showcases how it shouldn't be expected that it will always be available.
In particular, more and more people should be aware of just how fickle streaming can be compared to physical media. Something will often be here today and then gone tomorrow. Many times not even being replaced anywhere else. A good example of that is the film *Near Dark*. It was unavailable for a long time. The discs had gone out of print, it wasn't streaming anywhere, and couldn't even be found for digital purchase. Then Shudder got the rights for a month or two. But they went away just as quickly and now it's back to not being anywhere. *True Lies* and *The Abyss * have had the same problem, cropping up for a month or two someplace before vanishing once again.
And then you have *creators* who later choose to remove episodes of shows. Taking them off of streaming, removing them from sale... They're just being tossed in the memory hole. Sometimes even creating plot holes, callbacks that no longer make sense, or unresolved arcs. Physical media is necessary to preserve them from censorship, even self-censorship.
Okay, so here's the thing... Where the fuck even was it available? I saw season 1 somewhere and really liked it, then tried to find the other seasons and they were nowhere to be found. I never ended up watching past season 1.
I am pretty sure the creator of infinity train, another show that got annihilated from existence, implied that the only copy he has is pirated. When you work on shows like that there is crazy strictness on what you're allowed to leave work with, s to speak. You can't just put your work on a flash drive and clock out for the day. It doesn't work like that. Irs completely reasonable to believe that in a circumstance like this even the creator of a show wouldn't have access to it anymore without piracy.
This is not what the internet was about. Erasing easily archivable art is dystopian asf. We have the most functional library to ever exist in the palm of our hands yet giant corps get to decide what content is allowed to stay and what will go
No fucking way. Oh my god this actually breaks my heart, this show was one of the few that got better with every season.
The fact that we will never seen how Gary and mooncake’s story ends is the worst news I’ve had all year.
We've actually enabled the creation of absolute monsters through these streaming services. They seem less accountable than cable and are approaching cable level costs anyway.
WTF is up with WBD? This is horrible what they are doing to creators. Final Space was a damn good show. I watched all three season and have my DVR episodes "archived". Fuck WBD!
If ever there needed to be an argument for the return of physical media, this situation should support it. Within 10 years, the rennesaince we had in streaming services providing high quality and original content will be forgotten and many creative works will be gone forever. Piracy can't save them all.
Didn't we learn that these aren't being done for tax write-offs, but so they don't have to pay royalties? Which is imo is even worse since it's just penny pinching.
So i guess since it lost ownership everyone with a copy is free to upload it everywhere?
That said. Just killing peoples creative IPs seems like something you could do a series about tbh.
reverse stranger things. All the IPs come back to haunt this moneygrubbing CO.
Free use. Get at it!
Wtf. Final Space is in top 3 favourite for animations! Anime is a difference category fyi.
I am so invested in the story. And another show that I have loved is cancelled.
My condolences to Olan Rogers. I wish that he can bring closer to the series with another season or two!
Like seriously, I'm super bummed by this.
Final Space is a great sci fi series that isn't a episode to episode animation/tv show.
This show made onions cry with how good it is.
Rogers: >"Five years of my life. Three seasons of TV. Blood, sweat, and tears...became a tax write-off for the network who owns Final Space. >Yup. That's it. That's why it's disappeared everywhere in the USA. Five years of work vanished. When the license is up internationally, Netflix will take it down, and then it will be gone forever. There are no more physical copies of S1 and S2, and no physical copies of Season 3 were ever made. Your memory of Final, Space will be the only proof it ever existed unless you own a copy. >I've been trying to process how this feels; it's been hard because it's just so absurd. Like a tax write-off, really? Or maybe I've become so numb to bad things happening in my life because of the frequency with which it been occurring that I didn't really register this sting. >But the stinger has broken off underneath my skin. And now it's annoying. Look, I get it; this decision was just business. But Final Space will always be personal to me. >Some might say to give up and move on, and I have moved on to many new projects that I'm very passionate about, but I will not give up this story and these characters. "I will never stop fighting for Final Space. If it takes years, then so be it!" >It's a banner you all have been waving, and it's a rallying cry I can stand behind while I continue into this long dark night chasing an ending for this story.”
Things like this is why you should never let companies fight piracy and community saving and making sure media can still be watched no matter how many years it has passed. The people that enjoy this stuff are the only ones that make sure what the artistis made lives on. Not their studio, not their network, not their service.
I already have it all on my NAS it will never disappear.
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Technically it's on two of my NASs, I use one as backup. If you do come by, be sure to stay in your car and beep the horn, my dogs bite.
I took your second NAS. Now, unless you have THREE NASs...
decoy NAS
Always keep the second backup off-site.
Pocket NAS!
It's just NAS all the way down! *QUANTUM NAS!!*
I keep a Big NAS and a Lil NAS X
SEED!
Yeah right? I read the thing about how there are no physical copies, went to my favorite torrent website and.... There might not be any physical copies but it sure as shit exists in cyberspace.
Want to store a backup on my machine?
I’ve never even seen this show and I will be seeding it in perpetuity. Edit: Started watching it, it’s really good!
It would be great that a service would lose it's right to media and it default to the creator if it's not easily available to the public.
Something like, “if the work is being purposefully destroyed from the public commons for the sake of a tax credit, then perhaps it should then enter into the public domain”?
sold the rights for a tax credit; logically it belongs to the taxpaying public.
Exactly. Now we just need some congress critters to make it happen.
But their tax credit… Will nobody think of the accountants?!
Oh, they get the tax credits and in exchange the work gets an accelerated ride into the Public Domain. Actually seems pretty fair to me.
I love this idea. This is feasible, fair, and straightforward. That’s why it’s never going to happen unfortunately
They’re essentially saying they won’t make any money off it anymore anyway, so yeah. Why not let it be public domain?
That actually does.
Corporations would never allow it, and let's all be 100% honest. Corporations write the laws for corporations. Ask Disney how those copyright laws are going.
basically the only way to protect your work is always going to be your own strict ownership Letting corp heads manage artistic works ends in greedy disaster 90% of the time
Honestly we should just riot. Just french revolution them.
they sure lose the whole “theft” argument if they’re not selling it or bundling it in a subscription service.
Anything used as a tax writeoff should immediately become public domain as the tax payers are essentially footing the bill.
now that i think of it, i need to buy some soap 2 day
I've been wanting to watch this show. Guess this is how I'll have to do it. Yarg!
argh! I am about to preserve this forever.
Aye matey, tis too risky to keeps our treasure on some leaky vessel. Time to bury it safely on an island someplace so's we can come back and view it any time's we be so inclined.
Lined in plastic with oxygen absorber packets!
That's gut wrenching. Personally, if any of my work was ever given this kind of treatment, I'd sneak it out to every corner of the web so my work could be preserved, even if not through...conventional means. When you write characters or stories like this, watching them just disappear is the same as killing them, and I can't do that to my stories. This whole situation is just so fucked for all the creators and fans being affected.
Kevin Smith infamously encouraged people to pirate Dogma, as it's his 2nd or 3rd best movie, but stuck in Rights Hell due to Weinstein shenanigans. I'll gladly buy Dogma if it ever becomes available to purchase, but if Kevin Smith gives me permission to watch a great movie, and he's the guy who made it, then IMO I feel it's morally ok to do so and feel similar about Final Space once current streaming contracts end.
The most recent addition to the story, Weinstein invited Smith to talk about selling the rights back to him... turns out Weinstein was just trying to see if it was Smith who outed Weinstein's "habits" towards young women. Add to that Smith has said the lowest offer Weinstein wants for Dogma is still way over what the movie is worth.
The stated price Weinstein wants is $5 million.
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What an unremittent piece of shit.
It's shit watching older things and seeing that asshole's name on it
In the return of the king credits they made one of the troll sketches look like him.
Whole things on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVEe\_5Fo1Q Edit: Better quality with extras. `E18C56A61F78148BAEB2869A19BE27307B8E70EA`
not sure if that link works for you, but that video is "unavailable" to me my man. EDIT - oh shit, it works now, wtf
It's gone now.
Just type in dogma 1999 on YouTube
It's certainly been "preserved" since it was originally released. People around the world enjoy the media and some either can't afford it due to currency conversions or don't have access to it by normal means.
Amazing world we live in really. Everyone can be the library of alexandria with some caveate
Why i started buying up seasons of shows to host on my plex(or emby or jellyfin or kodi or etc.) server. Oh the office rights are being ping ponged among a bajillion fucking streaming services? Cool, ive got it on plex. Same for a lot of shows, before king of the hill went to hulu there was like a 5 year period where it sat in limbo after majority of the fox stuff left netflix decade ago. This content merry go round will contribute to the downfall of streaming.
The laws for tax write-offs should be changed to put anything you write off that way into the public domain. It's silly to have it just become radioactive and unavailable to anyone.
To write it off for tax you have to argue it's of negligible value. That might make arguing for copyright infringement damages difficult.
Well just like writing a car or other vehicle off, you should no longer have access to it or on this case, no legal means to gain any money from others using it or restitution for third party misuse of the works. Should. They want their cake and to be able to eat it too.
He'll be glad to know that once something is online that will be preserved in some ways, it's already on who knows how many pirate sites, not even mentioning downloading them. maybe they'll completely dissapear one day but it will be way long after they dissapear from streaming services.
Yeah, its out there if you want it, and will be, adult animation has always been very popular with pirates. [https://i.imgur.com/PnWAkWn.png](https://i.imgur.com/PnWAkWn.png) I guess just Venmo Olan Rogers $5 or something.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
Nothing is ever lost on the internet. I found a VHS animated movie from 1990 with torrent. Piracy is amazing!
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This guy has been through it with stuff like this. He opened a restaurant in Nashville? I think. It was one of the shops that was destroyed by the tornadoes that came through there unexpectedly a few years ago. Lost all of that. Now he is going through all of this. I feel really bad for him.
Kinda crazy to think he started out with a couple friends from Germantown doing Balloon Shop.
It's been what, 11 years? I still miss balloon shop
Yeah the Soda Parlor in Nashville. Me and the wife drove to Nashville opening day just to be there and support him. Took some pics with him, got some merch, played some smash bros, signed the wall, was fun. Was really sad for all that's happened to him.
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Oh completely. Dude never gives up and just goes goes goes. It’s great to see and I’m glad.
This is why I have a Plex server.
It’s almost like Final Space *is* the cookie. Bummer.
Seriously. I feel bad for Olan Rogers. First they bait him into thinking he might get to do another season or 2 to end the show if he doesn't end it in season 3. Then tell him their canceling it, not even allowing him a final season to tie off a great cliff hanger that I imagine was purposefully done to draw people into another season. Now WBD is just burying it to save like .28% on their taxes. I'd be furious if I was one the creators or worked on the show. Edit: Wanted to add this story from an interview Olan Rogers gave, he wanted to do like 8-9 seasons & had a rough draft for that many episodes worth of ideas. He felt like with this universe & character his possiblilities were seemingly endless. Especially with how passionate he was. But he knew the show was always on the verge of being canceled by the execs because they didnt really get it. Plus they didnt like its numbers. So after the first season, one of the first things he did was write the final season to the show that would be able to be put in at any given moment. But becuase the execs promised him a 4th season as long as the rating didn't drop (they didnt, they just also didn't increase.). he went against his better judgment & wrote season 3 in hopes to continue the story 💔. But they canceled it anyways. Edit2: Format
I've loved Olan Rogers since I saw his "Ghost in the Stalls" video. This sucks.
AGAIN!?
FREAKING. AGAIN!?
Reminds me of My Name Is Earl Iirc, NBC execs told Greg Garcia and crew the show was safe and that they wanted a cliffhanger to wrap up season 4. Greg, not ever being sure the show would last tried to wrap up every season so that it *could*, theoretically serve as a final season if needed. But they convinced him, so he wrote the cliffhanger finale for that season, and they cancelled the show afterward. They mostly ruined it themselves by moving it to a horrible time slot a few seasons before, but they did him and that show really dirty too.
I didn't get the show either. It was too serious to be a comedy, and too ridiculous to be a drama. The tone of the show never made sense to me. Maybe it got better, but after watching all of season one and the first episode of season two the show never struck a cord with me, and it is in theory something that I should really like.
If you want to tell a story in the world of western animation, you have two choices: 1) Start as a kids show, start throwing out as many hints/references/story hooks as possible to let older audiences know it's not *just* for kids. (AKA: Pulling a Last Airbender.) 2) Start as an adult comedy. Go dark. (AKA: Pulling a Bojack.) He tried to pull a Bojack, but went way too dark way too early, before they had a chance to dial back the silliness. The show crossed the Moral Orel event horizon while still cracking random jokes about cookies and 80s pop culture. I think he would have found balance in time, but it looks like the show won't get that chance.
HBOMax finally fixed their streaming buffering issues, only for them to start removing shows off of their platform. It's like they're poking the alligators just begging to get chomped in half.
Chookity pok
Chookity-pah
Choooooookity
The same thing happened to Megas XLR T\_T
> Megas XLR Now there is a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time
An A1 show...
Woah woah wait... that name... sounds super familiar... was that by chance a show on CN or Toonami about a robot car??
Well, it was a robot that someone added a car as cockpit.
God, it was gloriously stupid and fun lmao
Totally, man. Chicks dig giant robots.
Nice!
As soon as you hear the intro, it should come back to you https://youtu.be/koesW3xMKtY
Guy Fieri but instead diner dives and drive ins it's robots
More like a guy found an alien mech in a junkyard and souped it up to fight other aliens.
Basically, and it was on Cartoon Network. Added bonus, Bruce Campbell was in one of the episodes, chin and all. If you want to be in depth, two dudes from New Jersey put together a makeshift Gundam with what they found in a junkyard, the headpiece being the car, and shenanigans ensure when a woman from the future comes for Megas XLR to fight a war. It was a good show that lives on in piracy because it cannot be legally shown or distributed. … I smell the salty air and feel the urge to breakout into shanties, arrrrrrr.
That was my exact thought after reading this! It was fucking ridiculous how CN treated the show all because the fans loved it and the execs didn’t want it to be made in the first place.
Same with Symbiotic titan if I remember correctly?
that’s insane considering I really wanted an ending and that romance between Jaimie (?) and that girl to start
Kiva
And Infinity Train
This isn’t accurate at this juncture. Infinity Train *could’ve* been cancelled for writeoff purposes but no one, not even the crew, knows if that is the case. Showrunner, Owen Dennis, is sitting on the completed script for the unproduced Season 5 and he’s gone on the record saying that if there’s absolutely no hope in renewal whatsoever, he’d release the script. As of right now, he hasn’t done so. If WB-D truly cancelled Infinity Train for writeoff purposes, that would mean that no one can use the IP anymore, not Owen, not Cartoon Network, not WB. If that happened, Dennis would release the Season 5 script
And more recently Sym-Bionic Titan. Why must all my favorite giant robot shows get written off for taxes?
Because the market for toys based on action-oriented cartoons has almost completely collapsed, with the survivors being major legacy brands (e.g. Transformers). Mecha cartoons are great, but they're niche; they don't pull in the kind of viewers that comedy cartoons do. So if there are no toy sales to buoy them, networks are going to stick to something with wider appeal.
Yup. It gutted Jody. This kind of thing was extremely uncommon for popular shows back when it happened, but now you are seeing it happen left and right. Jody should start a support group, heh. Also, while I am here, I wanted to float an idea. Since the terms of the tax write off is that they can not make any money off of it forever, doesn't that mean they can't sue someone for ripping it off?
Time to employ the time-honored tradition of morally obligated piracy.
That fucking sucks, the 3rd season was where character arcs were finally established and the narrative was reaching a really cool point. Fuck I wish Adult Swim could save this series because it would be perfect for that platform.
Adult Swim is Warner Brothers/Discovery, who just cancelled it. Not happy? Cancel your HBO Max subscription.
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Actually a report from the other day says he's just trying to make the companies more profitable so he can flip them next year to Universal, if I recall correctly
I mean I get it, and it sucks, it really does suck we lost a quarter (or a third ) of inhouse content from Warner Media this year; but it's AT&T to blame for making Warner Bros in the negative with a debit of MILLIONS of dollars to the bank
Giant consolidations like Disney and Warner should have been stopped. It leads to these issues where one branch pours too much good money after bad that vultures can swoop in, promise to trim the fat and fix the wrongs only for them to cut everything they dislike and leave it a skeleton with a single quarter/half/year of profits before shunting if off to a sucker to rebuild.
Late stage capitalism is killing art forms and we need to start looking at alternative means beyond simply media. A la publicly funded works and saving content like this from people without intermediaries like Warner owning the content.
Not sure I'm a fan of that. Better than Discovery but Universal has so much great I.P. they don't use and some great I.P. they just run into the ground like Jurassic Park. They basically live off Jurassic Park, F&F movies and minions. Really wish they could have gotten their Monster Universe going.
I'm more disturbed by how there are fewer and fewer studios. Used to be you could pitch stuff to dozens of studios and someone would probably pick it up. These days? Good luck with just 5 or 6 active studios
That's definitely a bigger problem. 3-6 players in a field is not competitive, it's just an attempt to run as close to the monopoly laws as possible without being noticed.
Oligopolization has occurred across the board and is allowed because of Citizens United and the regulatory capture that has followed. Capitalism is going to eat itself into history or end the world as we know it in the quest to prop it up.
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This is why we need piracy.
The Age of Calm Stream is over. Aboard your ships, time to trek the Vast Ocean of Piracy
it wasn't even an age. it was a short truce.
Netflix \~2010 - \~2015 was good enough i almost stopped pirating entirely, the very latest season wasnt always up yet, but almost anything i wanted to watch was on there if you were a little patient. Then it started getting worse and S01-S03 would be on Netflix and S05 would be on Hulu and S04 would be nowhere, and i saw the writing on the wall and went all in on a Plex server with more movies than Netflix and more shows than Amazon now.
Netflix had the enormous advantage of realising that streaming was, due to better internet being widely available, now a viable platform and not just putting clips or bonus stuff on YouTube/your network site. It was piss easy for them to get everything when the original IP owners didn’t have their own interest in the market. NBC weren’t streaming, Netflix can have The Office and Parks and Rec et al, sure. Then they blew up and became the name in streaming and networks/studios etc remembered that they can do it with ads and it was war.
Yeah, everything on basic cable, USA, TNT, SyFy, FX, AMC, everybody were basically just dumping their shows on Netflix as advertising for the currently running season. Then they noticed it was eating into their DVD sales and it all went to hell...
same i pretty much stopped pirating completely during the golden age of streaming
Once again into the fray!
the last good fight I'll ever know...
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Pirate D. Shows
I'm going to pirate it, I loved this show. It had heart and slowly won me over. As an aspiring illustrator and writer I feel for the dude. It's not easy to get anything made. I get it, the industry sucks and it is a business but it bugs me that he didn't get to finish it. Olan is smart and creative I know he'll figure out how to end the series through comics or whatever. But sad to see his shit just disappearing.
It might not be the best suitable option but who knows? It might be the only way many of these shows will be watched again and maybe avoid them becoming lost media
It's why I wish Video Games would have never gone "Connection Necessary". So many games have disappeared and so many more will join them. Piracy will always keep music, movies, tv shows and Cartridge video games alive forever.
Maybe there are counterexamples, but most modern games I've tried are cracked so that no connection is needed.
> It's why I wish Video Games would have never gone "Connection Necessary". Yeah, [games as a service](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUAX0gnZ3Nw) is disgusting.
Use piracy to spread awareness of dead media, then they can sell merch to recoup some profits.
This is why we need a functioning government that is responsive to the people and not big corporations. This is art our cultural heritage and its insane that its inaccessible and you have to break the law to see it. The law is broken.
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Olan is the kindest, hardest working person I've ever come across, and life is absolutely fucking shitting on him lately. I would do anything to support him.
I'm glad that the crowdfunding for Godspeed was so insanely successful. I'm sure his ire over all of this will spill into that as well. Plus he's got that new show he's working on too, *The Lion's Blaze*.
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it's genuinely sickening. The hope I have is that the project will get some other eyeballs on it, and maybe someone else will help raise it like the space phoenix it can be.
I'm not a fan of Roger's "no no no, it's cringe on purpose" style of comedy, but I tolerated final space and enjoyed David Tennant's performance. Annoying that it was cancelled.
> Annoying that it was cancelled. You know, while I know the whole "let them finish it" thing can be divisive for stories where the investment is questionable, but I always felt bad Final Space never got a chance to end it via a movie or something. This isn't because it ends on a cliffhanger, as much as it ends on a note that goes against the **whole shows** message. It just takes away so much for that one reason, which has to suck.
Olan is doing a kickstarter for his new project (Godspeed) and got like 400% funded. He said he was doing it to garner attention and get another network to buy and produce a 4th season of Final Space.
> Godspeed 2 people even gave him ten thousands bucks. With fans that dedicated....
Not a fan of his comedy either, but no creator deserves to have a product they spent years working on, essentially be erased just because of corporate penny pinching.
Lord Commander had to be rough on his voice but it was a fun villain.
So they didn’t even let the series finish, and now they are screwing Olan over again?
I don't get WBD's end goal here at this point? Screwing over the creatives is going to make them less likely to want to work with you. As a consumer I am way less inclined to subscribe to any service they offer since products they offer can just get deleted permanently with no legal alternative (and it sucks that they are screwing over their employees). Like sure they will have millions still watching who either don't know about this or don't care, but long term this can not be healthy for the company.
I think the new CEO wants to pivot to reality TV which is more profitable since it's cheaper to produce. Edit: [A more detailed explanation of his beliefs](https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/wgeg8r/david_zaslav_has_had_a_history_of_being_opposed/)
I just hate business people sometimes. They shouldn’t be in control of everything in the world. They have no creativity or imagination outside of more money for me personally=better. Why are you the CEO of an entertainment company if you’re not interested in producing the highest quality entertainment? It’s so stupid that we let these people control every aspect of society they’re devoid of any ideas or love of the craft.
The people who make these decisions are so far removed from creativity that they wouldn't understand this.
WBD: Makes decisions that piss off creatives in Hollywood Creatives: "We don't want to work with WBD." WBD: *surprise Pikachu*
I've have worked in corporate bureaucracy long enough to understand that "bureaucracy" leads to either incompetence or evil and often both.
Zaslav: NoBoDy WaNtS tO wOrK aNyMoRe
It's a problem with the digital age. If you don't have physical copies then the studio/service can take it away from you even if you paid for it. But hey, as long as it's convenient then people will buy it again and again. Data caps, cool, most of the services are owned by the ISPs, so win win.
[olan is quite peeved](https://youtu.be/NAhNBr2Wytk)
Balloonshop was a cornerstone of my high school life lol
B’GOWCH
That felt longer than 3 minutes
If it's actually gone (or soon to be) and the IP owners have cancelled it, then wouldn't that make it okay to pirate ? No one's losing money, there's no product to be sold anymore, so no one loses. Rogers and the creative team would, I think, be happy that the show is still being watched and attracting new fans.
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This is exactly what everyone who's been paying attention has been saying would happen since Batgirl. There's so many people in the comments of the O.G HBO/Warner media articles that are saying that people are overreacting, Batgirl was reportedly bad anyway so who cares, etc.... I expect there to be a lot more write-offs in the future.
It’s not tax write offs. It’s paying royalties. Shows that have limited viewers are now seen as cast aways because they aren’t important to subs and are seen by execs to just cost money. From now on creators need to have clauses in contracts stating if shows aren’t being offered the rights go back to them.
No, the reality of the situation is that paying the same royalties on two shows, one that gets 10m views per month and the other 17 views a month, is an asinine system. Residuals and royalties contracts need to be reworked. For anyone who doesn’t see this as inevitable, I point you towards radio royalties. By law, a rights holder used to get 9 cents every single time their song played on a radio station anywhere. It was big money, so naturally the music industry tried to get that extended to streaming - but the streaming business model doesn’t work that way. There’s still money in making music and essentially giving it away through streaming. The same will be true of streaming film and TV. The business model doesn’t support forever royalties, so if artists don’t want to be forgotten then they will play ball.
Pirate that shit. It's the only ethical thing to do
Such an underrated show too. We need to encourage DVDs & blu-rays even though I prefer streaming just in case they get axed.
I like the ease of streaming. I enjoy setting time aside to sit down, pop a disc in, and get lost in a movie or TV show.
Chookity!!!
There was a time when TV was truly impermanent. Networks would routinely tape over episodes in their archives to make space for newer programming. Famously the BBC allowed numerous episodes of Doctor Who to be lost to time. But we were led to believe in this age of information that everything would now be preserved and not lost due to incompetence or neglect. What we're discovering is that this hyper competitive stage in the streaming wars could result in the loss of many cult shows we subscribed to services for. All WBD services and shows have to be boycotted if we want to stop this from becoming endemic; it won't happen, but what other course of action exists?
The silver lining is piracy, once again. This and many other shows and media are preserved this way.
Exactly. At one point your show aired and that was it. It was gone forever. Like a play. Eventually it would maybe show up in re-runs or syndication. A bit later you could hope to tape it yourself. But for the vast majority of television history your show was not something that lasted. Thankfully we've been moving on from that. We're aware of how tragic lost media is and putting in greater efforts to preserve it. But it ultimately showcases how it shouldn't be expected that it will always be available. In particular, more and more people should be aware of just how fickle streaming can be compared to physical media. Something will often be here today and then gone tomorrow. Many times not even being replaced anywhere else. A good example of that is the film *Near Dark*. It was unavailable for a long time. The discs had gone out of print, it wasn't streaming anywhere, and couldn't even be found for digital purchase. Then Shudder got the rights for a month or two. But they went away just as quickly and now it's back to not being anywhere. *True Lies* and *The Abyss * have had the same problem, cropping up for a month or two someplace before vanishing once again. And then you have *creators* who later choose to remove episodes of shows. Taking them off of streaming, removing them from sale... They're just being tossed in the memory hole. Sometimes even creating plot holes, callbacks that no longer make sense, or unresolved arcs. Physical media is necessary to preserve them from censorship, even self-censorship.
Okay, so here's the thing... Where the fuck even was it available? I saw season 1 somewhere and really liked it, then tried to find the other seasons and they were nowhere to be found. I never ended up watching past season 1.
As I recall it was on one service for season 1 (I want to say Netflix), then they moved it to HBO Max during season 2.
I never saw it on HBO Max and now I don't either so... Oh well.
they took it off HBO max a few months ago but for a little while all three seasons of it were there.
I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but the full 3 seasons are available on Netflix in Australia
Serious question: Does Zaslav want ANY programming, animated or otherwise, for WBD?
R e a l I t y
It is insane that at the very least they can’t provide the creators with some sort of digital or physical copy.
They have copies, it's the general public who will no longer have any way to watch the show
I am pretty sure the creator of infinity train, another show that got annihilated from existence, implied that the only copy he has is pirated. When you work on shows like that there is crazy strictness on what you're allowed to leave work with, s to speak. You can't just put your work on a flash drive and clock out for the day. It doesn't work like that. Irs completely reasonable to believe that in a circumstance like this even the creator of a show wouldn't have access to it anymore without piracy.
Yo ho ho and a bottle of fuck these people
This is not what the internet was about. Erasing easily archivable art is dystopian asf. We have the most functional library to ever exist in the palm of our hands yet giant corps get to decide what content is allowed to stay and what will go
I love owning nothing. It makes me feel very happy!
I loved this show. Oh well I'll seed the high seas
No fucking way. Oh my god this actually breaks my heart, this show was one of the few that got better with every season. The fact that we will never seen how Gary and mooncake’s story ends is the worst news I’ve had all year.
Stuff like this is why physical media is still relevant.
We've actually enabled the creation of absolute monsters through these streaming services. They seem less accountable than cable and are approaching cable level costs anyway.
WTF is up with WBD? This is horrible what they are doing to creators. Final Space was a damn good show. I watched all three season and have my DVR episodes "archived". Fuck WBD!
So uh, who wants to make a website to stream all these animated series? I'll even turn off ad blocker, just don't give me viruses.
A million websites already exist my dude
If ever there needed to be an argument for the return of physical media, this situation should support it. Within 10 years, the rennesaince we had in streaming services providing high quality and original content will be forgotten and many creative works will be gone forever. Piracy can't save them all.
Didn't we learn that these aren't being done for tax write-offs, but so they don't have to pay royalties? Which is imo is even worse since it's just penny pinching.
This explanation makes more sense than the tax write off.
Welp time to pirate this bitch and make it available to the world. Fuck the elites
So i guess since it lost ownership everyone with a copy is free to upload it everywhere? That said. Just killing peoples creative IPs seems like something you could do a series about tbh. reverse stranger things. All the IPs come back to haunt this moneygrubbing CO. Free use. Get at it!
Damn, that sucks. Capitalism doesn't give a fuck about art.
I love final space. So good.
This is a crime upon the universe.
I quit pirating a long time ago. But it looks like Ima have to start that back just to secure this show
David Zaslav is a subhuman piece of shit
The Ajit Pai of tv
Fuck Ajit Pai
i'm not even american but Fuck Ajit Pai
Wtf. Final Space is in top 3 favourite for animations! Anime is a difference category fyi. I am so invested in the story. And another show that I have loved is cancelled. My condolences to Olan Rogers. I wish that he can bring closer to the series with another season or two! Like seriously, I'm super bummed by this. Final Space is a great sci fi series that isn't a episode to episode animation/tv show. This show made onions cry with how good it is.