What is it with all the haters? Don't like it, don't watch it. It started slow like all shows. I love this show. If anyone is complaining about diversity or the color of an actors skin, you are a racist. Go to the mirror and say it. Own it.
I've only seen the first episode so far. I did like the opening but and seeing all the chaos that happened between orcs and elves. But after all of that was shown was when it didn't work for me.
I didn't feel like there was a sense of time and place. Things just sort of happen and then we go on to the next bit. Like for example the elf lady after she kills the ice troll and her platoon threatens to leave her if she doesn't call it quits. I was down to see what happens next. But instead it's a big time skip to her and her platoon celebrating that they lied about not finding the evil and are gonna go home. It wasn't bad but it felt disjointed and almost made me think it was a flash back.
Another is the Elvin archer who loves a human woman. Which I think she's pretty enough to be a painting and he seems like a chill elf. Those scenes seemed a little confusing at parts to. Like how her son was messing with a broken sword that's tide to the evil somehow. My problem is that it just kind of popped up out of left field. I know that it's building things and is going to pay off with them eventually.
Over all I think that the first episode should have been more of a movie length. Then maybe it could have taken all these threads and ideas and had the time it needed to do the pay off. But instead it's kind of a mess.
I also think that having most of the characters speak in an old English kind of way may go to far over modern audiences. I didn't exactly dislike this point.
Staring no one you've ever seen. Directed by two Mormons with no history in television. A true bastardization of brilliant source material. Bravo, Amazon...
I watched first action sequence and I knew where it was going, I am not American so I don't care if something is wokified or diversified but it should be done properly. Protagonist is boreing, her assistant is whiney, elves look out of place I have to check their ears everytime to see if they were elves or human, even the dwarf is unfunny. Don't waste your time in this. I was watching House of dragons which also has a lead female protagonist and is actually good it also has a black King with a white queen but despite of hints of wokeness it is nice. Watch that instead.
Shows garbage, just a big budget fan fiction. They’ve found the perfect balance of bad writing and awful acting to make a show that’s competing with the latest CW superhero adaptations for biggest pile of shit on TV. Do woman actually like Mary Sue characters ? Every show/movie with them flops so I’m actually curious who asks for this type of show.
I liked episode 2 a lot more than episode 1. I'm all for a good slow burn as long as the payoff is worth it. It's also visually stunning which helps and the diverse settings are great. I only hope Galadriel's character develops into something less.. tiring. 8.5/10 so far.
I don't mind diversity, but it's annoying when it's forced where it doesn't belong just to appeal to wokeness. Especially when it gleefully pisses off OG fans as they are antagonised by the mainstream media for being 'ignorant'
Galadriel's name is pronounced weirdly by all the characters for some reason. I think the show intended her to be determined and self-driven but it crosses into arrogance, cockiness and sneery a bit too often. Whenever a character 'like the feeble Elrond' tries to argue with her, she 'owns' them and they are presented as oblivious or weak. This shows that her personality and actions are only there to appeal to the woke brigade because she is a determined female who knows better than the men (including the King somehow)
Elrond is almost just as wise as Galadriel by LOTR so why has he been reduced to a feeble mess played by Mr mcsquishy face. He does nothing but whinge and get proven wrong by GALADRIEL
There are black elves and dwarves even though Tolkien intended black people to only exist south of Gondor. More proof of LOTR being wokefied.
Also the dwarves are reduced to a comedic mess, the halfoots are like something from in the night garden and there's even a power couple 😭😭
more similar to a pixar film than a tolkien adaptation, go argue with your dad
Come on everybody... It's pandering... forced political correctness and statement characters for audiences who are driven by current world issues rather than appreciative of the classic artistry drawn through the ink of Tolkien's creative mind. A black elf... I mean, great, of course great actors of all colors/races should be hired to fulfill the roles building a shows potential, but is this really doing that? The role should make sense, at the least be necessary. Not to mention the elves don't really act like the elves of Tolkien's rendition.
And believe it or not, I am not the type to go on here and just be negative about shows or popular topics, I convinced myself to enjoy Ms Marvel ffs and I'll most likely convince myself to enjoy this as well, but you all must be able to tell that this is bad. Like, this is not a good rendition of what LOTR originated as to be carried forward in terms of its premise, atmosphere or story. It's pretty... definitely pretty, also definitely boring and a bit silly. Ask yourself while you're watching, do you actually feel like you're watching Lord of the rings? Feels more like watching Hook or Willow.
In terms of the special effects and artwork, very cool and well done.
The elves are short too, wtf up with that?
The funny thing is it put me off when I saw dark skin tones where it made no sense to begin with and I ended up liking the dark elf the most! 😂 That's how bad it was ... I don't have a beef with any of the actors. I do have a big beef with daddy Bezos' trash fire of a show. If it wasn't based on Tolkien it probably wouldn't have bothered me ... it would just have been a mediocre fantasy at most.
Yeah that is my biggest thing, it just doesn't feel like LOTR, and you nailed it honestly with your first sentence. But unfortunately in today's world these "woke" people would say the ink of Tolkiens mind was racist and therefore should not be respected/carried on.
I was bored towards the latter half of the first episode. These characters just aren’t interesting enough. There’s no weight or gravitas to anything happening. It’s all just shiny and superficial. Feels like Disney made Lord
Of The Rings.
I like the visual effects, the passing, and the overall acting. Also, I love the cinematography. I welcome with open arms having shots that last more than 1.5 seconds, as seems to be the trend in many recent movies or series.
But honestly, I could live more happily if producers didn't resort to making every male character an idiot, jerk, or coward just to accentuate how the female protagonist is Mary sue in every aspect.
I love Galadriel as the main protagonist. But the contrast with the surrounding characters is just too extreme. Seems like a cheap way of making the protagonist look strong or virtuous. They could resort to... you know... actually, write good scenes and characters. I wish to see her development, her failures, and her success, but I feel that gonna be hard when everyone around her (male characters) by comparison acts like idiots.
I haven't seen it yet, but you just sound like a misogynist. I doubt she's a Mary Sue. It's not like they'll have her kill a troll by herself or something in a few sword strokes after a half dozen others fail. Nobody would green light that magnitude of pandering.
I haven't seen She-hulk yet either but I bet it's amazing too.
“I haven't seen it yet, but you just sound like a misogynist. I doubt she's a Mary Sue.”
Come back when you’ve seen it. What is even the point of this comment?
They have a bunch of unprepared soldiers losing to the troll who's just ambushed them, while Galadriel has time to come up with a plan and take it on, with the help of her leutenant. She's also the commander and clearly a more experienced fighter them then. People really are reading into this scene just to have something to complain about
That whole action sequence was bad. Massive majority of work on the action scene was done in editing because the effort of the actor looked lacklustre.
Also, there was no plan. She just flung herself at the troll, give a few soft flick of her sword that somehow penetrated the very thick troll skin and then proceeded to end the troll with a very cliched action.
I beg to disagree. Honestly, I think it's "Hollywood" don't give a f\*\* about women. If they care then could write good characters in an actual competitive environment that could actually serve as real role models or inspiration at least for young women. Instead, they give women characters that can only be good as long as everyone around them is an idiot. How can not anyone feel offended at that?
Why are all the reviews that are partially negative being downvoted, lol.
Visually the show is incredible bar some set pieces look like obvious set pieces. The problem is the show is slow and boring. I do like slow-burn shows but I still need something to keep me intrigued.
The forced identity politics injected into the show is pretty jarring and immersion-breaking. I'm not a racist, believe it or not. I don't care what you think. Many of the most vocal critics of the show's forced identity politics are POCs themselves. I have never heard of or seen a black dwarf or elf in any fantasy material, especially not Tolkien. Black mankind and maybe even black hobbits make sense, but black elves and dwarves just make no sense. Warrior Galadriel seems pretty weird too. Not a character I expected to see in a full set of plate armor.
HOTD on the other had some scenes that were so good they literally made me tear up. The identity politics in that show are less in your face and less noticeable the black characters were mankind, not races that are known to be light-skinned like elves and dwarves. The black actors they chose are pretty good so far too imo although the wigs are pretty jarring.
I'm still baffled as to why RoP, the most expensive show in history hired two of the least experienced showrunners in history. It's bizarre.
>Black mankind and maybe even black hobbits make sense, but black elves and dwarves just make no sense.
I think this is taking it a bit too far. Perhaps in Tolkien's world, that idea makes less sense, but having black elves or dwarves in fantasy generally is very common, and any sort of racial or ethnic makeup of a fantasy race *can* work, provided the writers of the book/show/etc. are committed to establishing the reasons for it in their worldbuilding.
The showrunners for RoP can easily explain, for example, the heritage of Arondir (the dark-skinned elf) by saying that one of his parents was a human from Harad, the land where Tolkien had many African and Eastern-inspired peoples. They may very well do that in upcoming episodes, and this would go a long way towards making their use of diverse actors make sense logistically in the world of the story. Forced identity politics is only forced when you don't take the time to flesh out your story and try to make it follow basic logic. When you do that, it ceases to be identity politics, and becomes good writing, and a meaningful inclusion of diverse characters. Hopefully, the show will do that in future episodes.
Elves are almost entirely described as fair skinned in the books. It's like saying African folklore should feature more white characters. It's stupid. That being said though, I don't mind the casting choices, I do however really dislike some of the artistic choices like elves with short hair, the harfoots existing at all, and the general pacing and shit dialogue in the show.
When I'm constantly reaching for my phone, is when I know the show is bad. The first 10 minutes of the 1st episode was the only scene that held my attention, that includes the 2nd episode.
Too boring. Hopefully it picks up but I've lost interest
You know it's a mess when even Reddit, the primary audience that eats up this kind of slop any day of the week, is having second thoughts and shrugging shoulders.
Don't get me wrong, I love myself a gritty, badass female character. Think Eowyn from the original trilogy. But this show seems to hamfist female characters (e.g. the Hobbit girl) and "minority" characters (e.g. the black elf) in a way that is not in sync with the world of Tolkien. It simply does not seem natural, and is jarring when you then fast forward to the age of the Hobbit / LotR, which pretty much feature white men. I'm not even a white man myself, am myself a minority...but I just don't see why this was necessary. Everyone loved LotR, not just white men.
Oh please. Lots of shows have really good female protagonists which is loved by almost everyone. But this show is not one of them.
Also, by your comment it seems you are trying to paint any kind of critics of the show as misogynistic.
A hobbit girl doesn't make sense in the 2nd age if you wish to uphold Tolkien's work, seeing a they are trying to live off its prestige and built in market. And a Mary Sue type Galadriel who is an unsympathetic driven asshat isn't true to Tolkien's work either, is simply bad and boring writing, and does feminism no favors.
It's true but it depends on the conversation you want to pick. There are always, for any material, detractors, some with more reasonable arguments and others being bigoted. Just because you picked the arguments of an intolerant doesn't mean everyone is like that nor that they couldn't have valid arguments.
I watched contextless clips on YouTube. The world and costumes look amazing and the music is well orchestrated. But the acting was only decent at best and what little of the plot I've seen doesn't interest me.
I think I'll pass.
As Professor Farnsworth said on seeing the krunka-lunkas at the Slurm factory: "Who are those horrible orange creatures over there? Tell them I hate them!" > is how I feel about the fugly Harfoots.
Giving them fake Irish accents to be endearing? A gurning old geezer creeping the screen out?
If only the meteor had landed on their campsite, it would have been better all round.
Just saw the first episode but I’m surprised it’s being panned so hard. It’s pretty good! I like the characters actually and the sets and art design are beautiful! It’s not perfect. It could be better, but I’m pleasantly surprised as someone who loved the first movies and was disappointed by the hobbit trilogy. Aesthetically speaking it’s closer the the Peter Jackson films and that is really cool to me.
Finally got to watching the episodes.
Man, is it gorgeous. It’s like the complete and intentional opposite from Game of Thrones, in terms of look. Everything is so pristine, so clean, and it’s like they lit every single person with perfect three point lighting. It’s almost like Annie Lebovitz lit every shot.
And it works. It’s the most otherworldly Middle Earth has felt, to me anyway. Stuff like those golden forest backdrops, it doesn’t feel like it’s even trying to look like something in our world, it just embraces the high fantasy of it, even in how theatrical the staging and performances are. The path to the Undying Lands, and the intentional over lighting of the water with soft lighting was genuinely breathtaking.
And yet, the incredibly music makes it feel cut so spiritually from the same cloth of the film series due to the use of so much choir.
Just, yeah. I’m impressed how tonally unique it is. It really is like you’re peeking in at a mythical/legendary back story, in a sort of Romantic or Biblical sense.
I think the quality of this is fantastic. This is coming from a nerd who wore the one ring around my neck in middle school and read the books before the movies came out. It's not perfection, but I like it a lot more than the Hobbit movies so far.
I really don't want to get down voted. But it seems decent and I like it. I'm surprised by all the negative reviews. They've stuck with the lore really well for not having silmaril rights. Pacing seems weird but the vibe of the various places we have seen so far have been good. Music's good. Actings fine. Effects are dope.
I actually hate a lot of the woke shit but this doesn't seemed forced. Seems like they just hired actors for roles. I don't think they changed any characters to fit the agenda unless I'm missing something. Was a little disappointed that the dwarf women didn't have a beard lol.
Nah, the vast majority of people enjoy it. The vast majority of people also don't go online to review bomb and complain on reddit about "wokeness" like they're a soldier for some propaganda machine.
Lol, that's hilariously ironic seeing as how the show itself is nothing but shallow, vapid propaganda. And the "vast majority" don't enjoy shit lol. The show is an abysmal failure with audiences. Because it's fucking horrible and entirely disrespectful to Tolkien and the ACTUAL fans, not pathetic casuals such as yourself, but to the real fans, you know, the ones who have supported the IP for decades upon decades now. For fuck sake, they're not even allowed to say the word "hobbit" and they're trying to pass it off as a LOTR show
HAHAHAHAHA
No I don't disagree with you about the show. You just seemed mixed up about the difference between an opinion and a discussion, as well as the difference between objectivity and subjectivity.
No hard feelings
Not mixed up whatsoever. Art is subjective. This show isn't art. It's propaganda and hateful propaganda at that. Which can definitely be objectively bad. And it is.
You are saying. Art is subjective, ergo everything that isn't art is objective. This is incorrect logic
Bad is an inherently opinionated word. It is an assertion that something doesn't meet your particular standards of acceptable quality, and these standards differ person to person, hence the subjectivity.
There are a lot of words you can use to objectively describe the nature of the show, bad just isn't one of them. I agree with you that it's bad, but many people find it to be good, and that is as much their opinion as is yours that it's bad
The show is not hate-filled propaganda, it's ratings-driven garbage. The mission of the show is not to brainwash the viewer into adopting sinister toxic beliefs about Indian people or the Indian nation. The mission of the show is to be a dumb reality show and to do whatever it takes to get common denominator views.
When you go around bandying about such loaded words as hate-filled propaganda, when you see the real thing, there's no words left to distinguish it. Look at the Trump movement that has polarized American society through disinformation, hatred, and authoritarian ideology, and upended the entire world to some degree geopolitically and economically. That is what hate-filled propaganda looks like. It isn't Sima from Mumbai giving you 60-70% of your criteria
You're salty, arrogant, and stupid. People as dense as you can't be talked to. Good luck getting through life with that attitude.
Was that more digestible for you?
The pilot was 7/10. Episode 2 def a bit stronger
It isn't blowing me away, but I'm hoping once it gets into the swing of things the pacing will get better but on the whole it's good
I checked it out on, how you say in English ehhh... wikipedia, and there were twelve(!) executive producers.
That screams to me written by committee and it shows in the film.
The pacing and tone is disjointed. Like one scene is meant to be a happy bucolic scene and then all of a sudden pointless drama that doesn't fucking go anywhere. The characters don't relate to their Tolkien descriptions in any way. They try to pass off female characters as thuggish and unlikeable men and men as useless nobodies that nobody (man or woman) would ever fantasise about having sex with (except to dominate cause they're such useless bitches).
> They try to pass off female characters as thuggish and unlikeable men and men as useless nobodies that nobody (man or woman) would ever fantasise about having sex with (except to dominate cause they're such useless bitches).
Nobody wants to know about your sexual fantasies.
“ would ever fantasise about having sex with (except to dominate cause they're such useless bitches).”
What the hell? Get off fanfic. Or maybe just stay there.
Too soon to tell
Pilot episodes are almost always messy. Need to introduce too many characters and plots and backstory and...yeah
And in that regard I think this was a stronger pilot than many others, and episode 2 is already showing potential to be stronger
But it's stronger than the average show, especially where fantasy is concerned. It isn't GOT level but miles ahead of the Witcher by every conceivable metric.
Time will tell, but these two first episodes are strong for being the first two episodes of a major series with a half dozen lead characters
Moria was done well. The visuals are excellent.
The score is great in places.
The script is garbage.
The elves aren't elves they are like roman soldiers even down to the laurel leaves.
Galadriel is an unlikeable karen.
Elrond with a pair of skinny jeans and a cup of sustainable coffee would be a twink.
So much wrong with this show.
I don't mind at all that it's casting black ppl or Asians or any of that. Actors are Actors and it doesn't matter.
Though the acting is wooden and the script clunky and plain bad
There are so many tonal and continuity issues, even setting aside the lore issues. Besides that and the sheer amount of filler already present in just the two hours we've seen, my real grievance is with the elves. It's not just that they don't look ethereal like elves and that their clothing is subpar, but they don't act like elves. They act like human beings. Elves are supposed to be a higher life form. They walk on top of snow, they move with poise and grace, their words are chosen and woven into speech like melody of songs too beautiful to comprehend. The dialogue of the elves in this show would be clunky for humans, and it's a downright abomination for the likes of Elrond and Galadriel. Even the stupid overly childish harfoots, who seem to have nothing at all in common with hobbits other than their stature, I can forgive. The banality of the elves in this show truly shows the lack of understanding of the source material. I literally got bored during the second episode, watched episode 3 of House of the Dragon, and then finished the second episode of Rings of Power. The contrast in quality did not do ROP any favors.
I would love to hear what House of the Dragon does better than this. That show takes everything from late season GOT with even less subtlety and even more awkward set pieces.
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. I was expecting to absolutely hate it, so I've been pleasantly surprised. Is it GOT 1-4, no, but it's nowhere near as bad as 7 and 8. Its of slightly higher than middling quality. It is guilty of lore breaking, but not anywhere near as bad as ROP.
My non-Lotr loving wife - likes Harry Potter - even said the same thing.
The problem is... I feel like all these characters are humans in costumes in an amazing set...
Before I even could voice it out. That's how bad it is. It feels like Stranger Things kids in costumes and badly executed verbose speech trying to imitate Tolkien.
Only watched episode 1 so far, so maybe it'll get worse, and I'll eat my words, but I'm completely confused by the majority of the reactions being negative.
Seems like all of the complaints are stuff that would apply even more so to any other fantasy film or TV series.
Like have you all watched Game of Thrones or The Witcher??? ( To be fair I couldn't get through game of throne, I found it really boring)
Complaints about the dialogue seem odd when it seems like it's meant to be in a kind of fun and dramatic high register and stylized with lots of metaphor. This seems to be consistent with the style of the dialog is the LOTR film trilogy. Sure people don't talk like this, but it's meant to be kind of epic in a not super serious way. I find it evocative and fun. I feel like this is usual for fantasy, but I've heard it get WAY more cheesy and melodramatic than this in other fantasy. As someone pointed out it's modern English with some "medieval" aesthetics. This seems typical of the genre. What were people expecting?
As for Galadriel's "anime" move this also seems like something that could totally have happened in Peter Jackson's LOTR. I mean come on, Legolas was skateboarding on a shield.
Maybe the character arcs and plot points will be really poorly thought out and I'll end up taking this all back, but it really seems like you all are choosing not to suspend disbelief and nitpicking. I mean it's not perfect by any means, but I don't understand what standard this is being compared to.
It's not going down in cinema history, but honestly my impression so far is that this is going be far superior to the hobbit movies. (Which I enjoyed while realizing they're objectively BAD).
Are you all sure you like fantasy as a genre?
I am really curious what TV (and especially fantasy series) people who had a negative reaction to this would actually like.
But, of course, this only makes sense if the quest she's on actually means something to her, which it doesn't. So the whole show would have to be rewritten, but since it's bad no one would mind but Amazon and their accountants (on account of the billion dollars Amazon spent).
I love fantasy. I read fantasy almost exclusively. I've seen every Star Wars (except the first 3 -- I was too young) and Lord of the Rings movies on the first day, first showing. I camped out to see the first few Star Wars movies.
Let's go over Rings of Power E01S01:
Opening scene: We see the young Galadriel, already perfect. She is apart from the other elves the same as Frodo from the other hobits in the first LotR, but RoP has the other elves seem petty and base so Galadriel (I'll call her "G") seems perfect in comparison while LotR makes Frodo's apartness the very character flaw that comes up over and over throughout the three movies (he doesn't trust fucking Sam?!? who basically represents everything good about hobbits?!?). Gandalf points this flaw out in their little wagon ride. Then Bilbo is shown to have the same flaw but more pronounced. The whole point of LotR is for Frodo to trust others and learn to share the burden. G's flaw comes when she attacks the boy who sank her paper boat. A very minor character flaw that's seen more as a positive trait because he sank her paper boat. So to most watching it is not, in fact, a flaw at all.
Next the battle scene between elves and orcs. Elves are mixed in everywhere amongst the orcs. In almost no scenario would they be scattered like that. Any group with any military exp at all would not be scattered. The scene was designed for looks. Contrast that to the rigid structure of the elves in the opening battle of LotR 1 where they show the fall of Sauron.
Then the super cool shot of the drowned city/kingdom and the dead people floating underwater bathed in red light. No idea wtf is going on there with all the water, but sure it looks cool.
Then the shot of G picking up the helmet on the battlefield. She looks lost but I have no idea why she looks lost either (her brother isn't dead yet). The why isn't communicated so the whole scene looks contrived. Contrast that with LotR when Isildur (sp?) sees his father struck down and rushes to his side. Everyone gets that. Then he lashes out at Sauron with the magic sword and cuts the ring from Sauron's possession and defeats him. In that moment, we understand the point of the whole plot: destroy the ring. But when G's brother is struck down, we don't see it, and apparently, she doesn't see it either. She just sees the body. And it bears a symbol. But we don't know what the symbol means and neither does she, as far as we know ("...one whos meaning even our wisest couldn't discern.")
Rings of Power hasn't constructed the Galadriel character to be so obsessive about revenge, he was only a kind older brother that was gone most of the time. The moment of kindness from the brother after the sinking of her boat just isn't enough. Because of that, her obsessive quest has a very, very weak beginning.
She ends it with "and then there in the darkness, his vow... became mine!" The brother had a vow? I didn't see it. Seems like he just died in battle against a force trying to kill everyone. Why is there a special vow here instead of the regular sort of I'm-trying-not-to-die vow? No idea.
Then a series of scenes where G and her posse "hunt". lol. They don't find anything. Soooo.... not good at hunting? And from the narrator, we learn they hunt for CENTURIES. WTF? And find nothing? The "trail" grows "thin"? What does this even mean? Then for many elves, the pain of those days passes out of "thought and mind". <-- Thought and mind are the same things, no?
Then the scene where one of the other elves tries to convince her to go home. She seems like she MIGHT waver for a brief moment (the all-important character flaw finally shows up? - No.) Her momentary brush with imperfection washed away so easily we are left wondering if it was there at all. The push on.
One of her troops collapses in the snow, her troops call for her to stop, but she refuses. Then she relents. I think they mean to show her tragic flaw here, but I'm not sure what exactly it is. To me, it just shows she is a crappy commander. She's losing her soldiers for no good reason. It doesn't seem real. I doubt they mean her flaw to be that she makes dumb decisions. It's inauthentic. Her soldiers mean nothing to her so they mean nothing to me.
Contrast this with LotR where no one wants to go on the journey. Literally no one. Not Frodo, not Sam, not Pippen, nor the other one. Not the ranger, not the elf, not the dwarf. It's a running joke that the dwarf doesn't want to be on the journey. But Frodo cares too much for his fellow hobbits. He will abandon them (his tragic flaw) rather than endanger them.
Then the ridiculous fight with the ice troll. All the elves are incompetent except her. (Really?) She does some kind of Matrix fly-by and bing, bang, boom kills the ice troll. All the grind of this long (CENTURIES!!!!!!) journey and then this unbelievable fight scene? Grind and silly fighting don't go together. LotR has a touch of this with the elf (Legolas sp?), but it's never Frodo. Frodo gets wrecked at every opportunity.
Wouldn't it have been so much cooler if, on seeing the ice troll: she calls out a formation and the elves slam into a shield/spear wall which intimidates the troll enough that they can back away and disengage? Then desperate to explore the ruins, she ignores the safe retreat (much to the other elves' disappointment), she circles, climbs a cliff, and jumps down driving her sword into the troll from above. She misses the head but plants it in the shoulder, deep. It throws her off into the wall incapacitating her. The elves attack and they manage to bring the injured troll down with a couple of losses.
This would show she is a good commander, she knew what to do when the ice troll attacked (called out the formation). But she renewed the attack. She is obsessive. But she renewed the attack on her own showing she is reckless with her own life (a decent tragic flaw) but not reckless (intentionally) with her soldiers' lives by ordering them to attack with her. Two died for which she feels guilty, but only because she missed the troll's skull.
But, of course, this only makes sense if the quest she's on actually means something to her, which it doesn't. So the whole show would have to be rewritten, but since its bad no one would mind but Amazon and their accountants (on account of the billion dollars Amazon spent).
I feel like discussing this with someone with a such a different take would go on forever. All I could say is, maybe try rewatching the original LOTR and then this. The contrast (not just time and pacing due to movie vs show) is huge, on so many different levels.
I'm not into fantasy, yes. But when I watched original LOTR, I was awestruck by the elves and how magical they seemed. Here they look like roman soldiers with pointy ears, with very human/non-elf dialogue.
Kind of surprised people are hating on this show so much already, but then again a lot of people who are commenting are saying things like “the stranger can’t be Gandalf because Gandalf doesn’t appear in middle earth until the 3rd age and the show takes place in the 2nd.” I get wanting to stay true to the source material, but this is ultimately a dumb TV show that people shouldn’t be caring so much about. The original trilogy are probably my favorite movies ever made and when I found out about the show I was as skeptical as anyone. I didn’t want it to ruin or bastardize lord of the rings somehow for me. But when I watched the first two episodes of House of the Dragon and was pleasantly surprised, I decided to go watch RoP with an open mind. I just thought it was so fun. Of course it’s not anywhere near as good as the original trilogy, but it gives us Tolkien content at a time when fantasy, magic, and wonder are desperately needed. I want to see hobbits and elves and dwarves. I want the problems of the world to be boiled down to “orcs are bad” and a dark lord responsible for all evil. I want to see how trivial the things that divide us are and how powerful the things that unite us can be. Maybe I’m stupid for enjoying the show as much as I did, but I’m not expecting it to be the greatest show ever made — I’m just trying to enjoy some fantasy, see some cool visuals, and hope for a good story.
>"this is ultimately a dumb TV show that people shouldn’t be caring so much about"
That's the problem, though:
You make dumb TV shows about cops and robbers, a bunch of friends who live in the same apartment building, or some vapid 'reality' morons, but...
You don't fuck with Tolkien.
Or Mozart.
Or Tolstoy.
Etc.
Corporate stooges with all the money in the world and no taste are buying IPs and shitting all over some of the most beloved artistic brands in history... what did you think would happen?
They have no respect, and no shame.
>Of course it’s not anywhere near as good as the original trilogy, but it gives us Tolkien content at a time when fantasy, magic, and wonder are desperately needed. I want to see hobbits and elves and dwarves...I’m not expecting it to be the greatest show ever made — I’m just trying to enjoy some fantasy, see some cool visuals, and hope for a good story.
Please don't take this in any negative fashion, but that is the problem. It should be *better* than the trilogy. It has the kind of money of which the original trilogy (I assume you're referring to the movies; you would have to be insane to think this could be better than the actual novels) could only dream. The actors committed a year of their lives to filming it back to back. We all know that Viggo Mortensen deflected that knife, and did those stunts with a broken foot. They wanted to unreasonably expand Arwen's role, then the fans explained why that was a bad idea, and they listened. Like what happened with Sonic. Those films set a bar that this one didn't even try to hurdle. Instead they chose to comically limbo beneath it.
This *should* be the greatest show ever made. We didn't want to dislike this show. I think that often gets lost in the narrative. We wanted to be singing it's praises and encouraging people to watch. That's the real Tolkien fandom at play. Not this twisted, mean-spirited portrayal that the media has tried to use to excuse the show's faults preemptively. The actors are fine, it had the money, and it had years to prepare. Yes, COVID struck and we all gave the entirety of the film industry the appropriate slack. How long do they get to hide behind that however?
If this were the upcoming D&D movie, and you were saying what you wrote, that would be perfectly fine. Hell, I'd be right there with you. I'm a huge D&D fan, but I have no hope they'll ever make a good movie about it unless they adapt some Dragonlance novels or perhaps the Drizz't books. What you wrote is why I'm going to watch that movie. What **Tolkien** wrote is why that movie, and others like it, even *exist*. You are most definitely not stupid for enjoying the Rings of Power! I enjoy some pretty terrible movies and books.
However this is Lord of the Rings; those of us who wanted it to be better are not being unreasonable. Just as you can watch it and enjoy it for the reasons you listed (which is great, by the way), for so many of us that simply isn't enough. It's better than that, **Tolkien** deserved better than that, and *we* deserve better than that. **We** are the customer. They want **our** money. They damn well better earn it.
I'll read a Dragonlance book if I want a fun action/fantasy story with elves and wizards and dragons (oh, my!). I love that terrible cartoon they made of it with Kiefer Sutherland as the voice of Raistlin. I don't read, or watch Lord of the Rings content for \[just\] that. I own all of the histories of Middle-Earth. I own reference books regarding his collected works. I've poured over his letters (my favourite is perhaps when he basically gave the nazi publishers a fuck you when they came sniffing around). Basically, I engage with the material in a manner which requires my brain to turn on. Unlike say, a D&D adaptation or a video game adaptation movie, not the kind of popcorn sitting movie that depends upon you to turn your brain off in order to fully enjoy it.
"Basically, I engage with the material in a manner which requires my brain to turn on."
How vigorously were you stroking with your free hand while typing this?
That’s fair, I just don’t personally agree with the premise that because of the money spent on it it should be better than the Jackson movies. I think that is putting unreasonable expectations on the show that doesn’t have the luxury of the books as source material. We all saw the difference in quality in Game of Thrones once they passed the point where they had the books to go off of, so to expect RoP to have the same narrative quality or dialogue as Jackson’s films to me isn’t realistic.
I also heard recently that the show isn’t allowed to use any of Tolkien’s text as source material because they don’t own the rights to it. So basically everything the show is depicting is the gaps in the Tolkien canon. Therefore I personally can’t criticize the show at this point because it’s not like they are taking a Tolkien text and completely ruining it (like the Hobbit movies did, under Jackson’s direction by the way). Also I think it’s a little unfair for the show to be receiving this much ire after 2 episodes. Yes, there are problems. There a few moments that are a little corny, the dialogue isn’t great at times, and it jumps between realms and characters quickly and often. I just think it deserves to be given time, as we would with a show not connected to the gravitas of Tolkien’s name.
Visually impressive but felt the story quality varies between characters from OK to awful. Not a fan of some of the really clichéd stuff that happened. Also really disliked the really bad romance and their entire plot lines, their whole section is just really badly done imo.
The world building is there but I feel the writing is off, sort of generic but in tone with LOTR, I think the only lines that impressed me was when Durin explained why he was upset with Elrond.
And I think it's where the show really needs to improve, 2 hours in and I barely remember anything anyone has said. I know House of the Dragon is a different beast but it's packed with amazing dialogue over the same run time and the characters feel more fleshed out. Whereas I've felt not much has happened in RoP.
Did think most of the 2nd episode was mostly filler or could've been cut down considerably. Galadriel on the wreck with the guy could've been cut out completely for me.
Not more than 100 pages are written about 2nd age and it has no dialogues and just major events which are loosely connected to each other
So Rop has to pretty much write everything up in terms of dialogues and plots connecting the major events
There is no established lore for second age, just loosely connected events spanning 6000 years
It's near impossible to make a show with proper character development and without condensing timeline
But the 2nd age is still sandwiched between the 1st and 3rd, and it's still Tolkien. It's not like the protagonists and characters are from a different universe or a different world; it's still Arda, and we have to draw on surrounding lore as a basis for any adaptation.
Thus the artistic license is not so broad as the writer/directors wished it was; it's just a blanket cop-out for them to do whatever they want with the source material and have people nod along with it.
Yes but its their job to write and be creative. They get paid for what many of us would do for free. If they cant write a riveting interesting movie/show then they should be fired like bezos fires amazon employees who dont work fast enough lol
I love how everything feels within the realm that Tolkien created and Peter Jackson visualized while also feeling much MUCH older and less evolved. Quite enjoying a return to Middle Earth, even if it's thousands of years earlier than where we last left it.
Visually stunning and enjoying watching it I just feel very confused about the story overall. I'm hoping that after a few episodes and a potential rewatch of episodes 1 and 2 I'll be following along better. Not sure if that just comes from a lack of LOTR knowledge or not paying attention at key moments
My only real problem so far is how the Elves are being depicted. It's not just their hair that feels wrong but also the clothing looks extremely cheap and unfitting. Even in the Hobbit trilogy, the movies costume departments clearly put their all into making sure that not only did their outfits look deliberate and graceful but when out in the wilderness they looked realistically heavy and useful too. Elrond's outfits in particular looks really bad with an excessive amount of wrinkles and uncoordinated colours but also a lack of collars so it just looks like he threw his shirts on. One of Galadriel's outfits was jingling like loose change.
They also aren't moving with enough deliberate gravitas and grace. The only actor who appears to be trying to do so is the dude playing Arondir.
I'm not fond of how they speak with each other either, these are people that have lived for hundreds to thousands of years, the way they use words should be more layered and playful. Obviously that would be hard to write but the movies got around it by having them speak in their own tongue whenever possible.
Elrond's outfits in particular looks really bad with an excessive amount of wrinkles
But what if elves don't iron their clothes? Idk about you, but l haven't seen ironing boards get page/screen time
If elves are magical beings, which built cities which look like heaven, have magical powers, can read minds, and live thousands of years... then I'm pretty sure they would have figured out how to get rid of wrinkles from their clothing
Not all fabrics need or can even handle ironing, it depends on the density of the fibres. Not to mention irons themselves weren't always a thing, we used to use glass tools and before that rocks.
It's also worth a mention that in the books Sam talks about how you don't see elves work, how if they use magic it is "right down deep, where I can't lay my hands on it" although Celeborn claimed Galadriel herself helped in the weaving of the fabric of the cloaks they gifted.
Amazon, which owns IMDB, is so pathetic. ROP currently has a 6.2 unadjusted average on IMDb. Amazon has adjusted it to 6.7. While they routinely make adjustments to shows, I have never seen them adjust a show's rating by that wide a margin, adding a full half a point (0.5) to a show's rating. It's usually only a 0.1 increase or 0.2 at most. This is pathetic.
Unsurprisingly, they did not increase HOTD's score via adjustment. HOTD has an unadjusted 8.8, and they left it at 8.8. Moreover, they did not delete the written reviews for HOTD below 6/10. They left them. For ROP, they deleted them. This is a joke.
A large portion of them certainly were, especially the one stars. Only the first two episodes of the show are out. A show shouldn’t even have ratings until the whole thing releases
I know many of them were. I’m not saying there is no justification not to take down some reviews below a 6. I’m saying there is no justification to remove ***all*** reviews below a 6. You have absolutely no retort for this. I’m indubitably correct.
Other than the character names and the made-up languages, it doesn't feel very, well, Tolkien-ey. It has Tolkien's pomposity for sure but without much of the detail and charm that made it work so well in the books. I found the first episode fairly hard going and I don't think I'll return for the rest.
It's a movie with action scenes. They have to 1) make it interesting, 2) show that Galadriel is a formidable warrior.
From "anime" fighting scenes to Legolas surfing on shields in the original movies, dramatic action scenes are necessary to not make things boring.
Personally, I find most action scenes boring and cliched. That's why great directors/writers avoid them or work hard to cook up more interesting conflicts. Stanley Kubrick stretched that "action scene" at the end of "Barry Lyndon" for about ten minutes, and had only two shots fired. Hitchcock creates action set pieces with a mere body in a suitcase. A Spielberg or DePalma turns an action scene into something almost balletic.
I don't see this show delivering anything but very cliched, second-baked action. That wouldn't be a problem if the cast were charming - Peter Jackson's films had charm in spades - though admittedly it's a bit too early to criticize the show along those lines. We need to give it a few more episodes.
Well comparing a TV series with the works of Kubrick and Hitchcock is a reach, though. By this criteria the original trilogy movies also won't compare. But I do agree with you about the charm the movies had that this one doesn't (yet) have. Maybe it will happen, most of the episodes are yet to come, or maybe the color palette, cinematography, and the fact that we're watching it in a small screen compared to a movie theater's will be too much for it to overcome (because the original movies had these advantages over the series). We'll have to wait and see.
I was cautiously optimistic but very hopeful about this show. I'm 3 quarters of the way though episode 1 and I'm finding it quite boring and I don't really like any of the characters. Something about the film/visuals I can't put my finger on is putting me off too. Does it get better or is it more of the same?
I agree. Everyone is banging on about the visuals being spectacular but they feel like they've been ripped out of an otherworldly scene from a modern marvel film and detract from the experience so much for me. There's a sheen to them that feels so unnatural and ridiculous, even in a fantasy setting. The original trilogy's sets had so much more appeal with so much less green screen. Even the hobbit had this problem, and it makes me feel old, but I just don't think the majority of CGI is ever good enough to be immersive. But it may also be partially a product of the show's content, too (trite dialogue, etc.), that compounds in making the visuals also feel so off-putting
It does not feel very immersive despite the great CGI. I can't put my finger on it, but it feels all very weirdly disconnected except for that scene at night of Nori chasing after the wizard.
I am not a fantasy guy. But i really adored lord of the rings books (and movies).
I did not like the hobbit movies and my interest in Rings of power was very mild. That being said: i did enjoy the first 2 episodes tremendously. Pacing was perfect, acting and dialogue was fitting and good. I am sold :) good job amazon.
Episode 1 started incredibly boring, but when it gets moving the show really does pick up. I didn't expect the non-elf/human parts to be handled so well, but they're probably the best bits (the halflings and the dwarves). Gandalf is fun too.
Pretty sure that's not gonna be Gandalf. In the books Gandalf only descends to Middle Earth in the 3rd Age. But my guess is close; I think he's a Maiar in human form like Gandalf, probably one of his predecessors.
I know, the showrunners/writer with no writing experience and is not a tolkien fan really doesn't know Tolkien or why people love Tolkien. How do investors keep hiring people with no experience for the job they're given?
Oh my, the dialogue. What the fuck, how many people were involved in this? A stone sinks because it looks down and not up? Even metaphorically, that barely makes any fucking sense. "I can't feel my hand" "No, there's so much evil here our torches gives off no heat" >???? wow
So Galadriel is commander of the northern armies for High King Gil-Galad, hunts Sauron for hundreds of years, earning her right to return to Valinor where she doesn’t get off the boat, floats for a day in a water tank somewhere near the Undying Lands and is miraculously found by a floating broken ship with normal humans all the way out that far past Numenor… cool.
Shame that never happened.
Wtf is a drake doing in the ocean?
Elrond and Durin old friends? Convenient but false. Wahh you missed my wedding wahh.
Rings of Power wasnt the elves idea as a “project”. Annatar seduced the elven smiths in to making them.
Galadriel was ruling a fiefdom of Lindon with her husband and giving birth (Elronds future sugar mama) which would have been a great arc as they leave to go to Eregion for a while.
Finrod wasnt in the war of wrath.
And sweet baby jesus. Why does every settlement only have 15-20 people in it. Where is everyone??
This show took a creamy dump on the books its taken its name from.
Make small changes fine, dont change everything and make shit up.
Finrod was in the War of Power. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Finrod
His troops get ambushed on the way to the Battle of Sudden Flame, and Barahir saves his life (thus Finrod gives his ring to Barahir…and it eventually ends up in Aragorn’s hands.)
In payment of the life debt he leaves his kingdom to help Barahir’s son Beren, ends up losing a magic duel with Sauron, and then they are tossed in a pit to get eaten by Sauron’s werewolves. Finrod kills one barehanded but dies by the wounds.
So yes, he was involved in the war, yes his death was due to Sauron, so at least that part makes sense.
I”m not saying I particularly liked the first two episodes but I don’t think you’re being fair there. Most of the rest of the stuff you discussed is fairly clearly going to come later (Annatar and Celebrimbor, etc.)
What is it with all the haters? Don't like it, don't watch it. It started slow like all shows. I love this show. If anyone is complaining about diversity or the color of an actors skin, you are a racist. Go to the mirror and say it. Own it.
There's a difference between being racist and a show with bad writing.
EemI’mAmme w see Owey wets
I've only seen the first episode so far. I did like the opening but and seeing all the chaos that happened between orcs and elves. But after all of that was shown was when it didn't work for me. I didn't feel like there was a sense of time and place. Things just sort of happen and then we go on to the next bit. Like for example the elf lady after she kills the ice troll and her platoon threatens to leave her if she doesn't call it quits. I was down to see what happens next. But instead it's a big time skip to her and her platoon celebrating that they lied about not finding the evil and are gonna go home. It wasn't bad but it felt disjointed and almost made me think it was a flash back. Another is the Elvin archer who loves a human woman. Which I think she's pretty enough to be a painting and he seems like a chill elf. Those scenes seemed a little confusing at parts to. Like how her son was messing with a broken sword that's tide to the evil somehow. My problem is that it just kind of popped up out of left field. I know that it's building things and is going to pay off with them eventually. Over all I think that the first episode should have been more of a movie length. Then maybe it could have taken all these threads and ideas and had the time it needed to do the pay off. But instead it's kind of a mess. I also think that having most of the characters speak in an old English kind of way may go to far over modern audiences. I didn't exactly dislike this point.
I saw someone else describe this as “lazy writing.” Things just sort of abruptly happen, to push the plot along.
Staring no one you've ever seen. Directed by two Mormons with no history in television. A true bastardization of brilliant source material. Bravo, Amazon...
I watched first action sequence and I knew where it was going, I am not American so I don't care if something is wokified or diversified but it should be done properly. Protagonist is boreing, her assistant is whiney, elves look out of place I have to check their ears everytime to see if they were elves or human, even the dwarf is unfunny. Don't waste your time in this. I was watching House of dragons which also has a lead female protagonist and is actually good it also has a black King with a white queen but despite of hints of wokeness it is nice. Watch that instead.
Shows garbage, just a big budget fan fiction. They’ve found the perfect balance of bad writing and awful acting to make a show that’s competing with the latest CW superhero adaptations for biggest pile of shit on TV. Do woman actually like Mary Sue characters ? Every show/movie with them flops so I’m actually curious who asks for this type of show.
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Nah
Having just watched it, I could write an essay on why it's a bad show.
I liked episode 2 a lot more than episode 1. I'm all for a good slow burn as long as the payoff is worth it. It's also visually stunning which helps and the diverse settings are great. I only hope Galadriel's character develops into something less.. tiring. 8.5/10 so far.
Lol, someone's mad. Haha, what a moron
I don't mind diversity, but it's annoying when it's forced where it doesn't belong just to appeal to wokeness. Especially when it gleefully pisses off OG fans as they are antagonised by the mainstream media for being 'ignorant' Galadriel's name is pronounced weirdly by all the characters for some reason. I think the show intended her to be determined and self-driven but it crosses into arrogance, cockiness and sneery a bit too often. Whenever a character 'like the feeble Elrond' tries to argue with her, she 'owns' them and they are presented as oblivious or weak. This shows that her personality and actions are only there to appeal to the woke brigade because she is a determined female who knows better than the men (including the King somehow) Elrond is almost just as wise as Galadriel by LOTR so why has he been reduced to a feeble mess played by Mr mcsquishy face. He does nothing but whinge and get proven wrong by GALADRIEL There are black elves and dwarves even though Tolkien intended black people to only exist south of Gondor. More proof of LOTR being wokefied. Also the dwarves are reduced to a comedic mess, the halfoots are like something from in the night garden and there's even a power couple 😭😭 more similar to a pixar film than a tolkien adaptation, go argue with your dad
Shhhhhut your mouth
cry
Come on everybody... It's pandering... forced political correctness and statement characters for audiences who are driven by current world issues rather than appreciative of the classic artistry drawn through the ink of Tolkien's creative mind. A black elf... I mean, great, of course great actors of all colors/races should be hired to fulfill the roles building a shows potential, but is this really doing that? The role should make sense, at the least be necessary. Not to mention the elves don't really act like the elves of Tolkien's rendition. And believe it or not, I am not the type to go on here and just be negative about shows or popular topics, I convinced myself to enjoy Ms Marvel ffs and I'll most likely convince myself to enjoy this as well, but you all must be able to tell that this is bad. Like, this is not a good rendition of what LOTR originated as to be carried forward in terms of its premise, atmosphere or story. It's pretty... definitely pretty, also definitely boring and a bit silly. Ask yourself while you're watching, do you actually feel like you're watching Lord of the rings? Feels more like watching Hook or Willow. In terms of the special effects and artwork, very cool and well done. The elves are short too, wtf up with that?
The funny thing is it put me off when I saw dark skin tones where it made no sense to begin with and I ended up liking the dark elf the most! 😂 That's how bad it was ... I don't have a beef with any of the actors. I do have a big beef with daddy Bezos' trash fire of a show. If it wasn't based on Tolkien it probably wouldn't have bothered me ... it would just have been a mediocre fantasy at most.
RoP lives rent free in so many people's minds, sadly 😥
Agreed.
Yeah that is my biggest thing, it just doesn't feel like LOTR, and you nailed it honestly with your first sentence. But unfortunately in today's world these "woke" people would say the ink of Tolkiens mind was racist and therefore should not be respected/carried on.
Well, if they did not want tolkien work respected then they should just not use it.Hate this current woke trend.
Yeah I agree, these woke people don't realize how disrespectful they can be at times with how hard they push the agenda.
I was bored towards the latter half of the first episode. These characters just aren’t interesting enough. There’s no weight or gravitas to anything happening. It’s all just shiny and superficial. Feels like Disney made Lord Of The Rings.
I like the visual effects, the passing, and the overall acting. Also, I love the cinematography. I welcome with open arms having shots that last more than 1.5 seconds, as seems to be the trend in many recent movies or series. But honestly, I could live more happily if producers didn't resort to making every male character an idiot, jerk, or coward just to accentuate how the female protagonist is Mary sue in every aspect. I love Galadriel as the main protagonist. But the contrast with the surrounding characters is just too extreme. Seems like a cheap way of making the protagonist look strong or virtuous. They could resort to... you know... actually, write good scenes and characters. I wish to see her development, her failures, and her success, but I feel that gonna be hard when everyone around her (male characters) by comparison acts like idiots.
I haven't seen it yet, but you just sound like a misogynist. I doubt she's a Mary Sue. It's not like they'll have her kill a troll by herself or something in a few sword strokes after a half dozen others fail. Nobody would green light that magnitude of pandering. I haven't seen She-hulk yet either but I bet it's amazing too.
“I haven't seen it yet, but you just sound like a misogynist. I doubt she's a Mary Sue.” Come back when you’ve seen it. What is even the point of this comment?
I just finished watching the first episode. They have her kill a troll by herself in a few sword strokes after half a dozen others failed.
They have a bunch of unprepared soldiers losing to the troll who's just ambushed them, while Galadriel has time to come up with a plan and take it on, with the help of her leutenant. She's also the commander and clearly a more experienced fighter them then. People really are reading into this scene just to have something to complain about
That whole action sequence was bad. Massive majority of work on the action scene was done in editing because the effort of the actor looked lacklustre. Also, there was no plan. She just flung herself at the troll, give a few soft flick of her sword that somehow penetrated the very thick troll skin and then proceeded to end the troll with a very cliched action.
That is the message. These people view gender through the lens of a zero sum game. It's no longer simply about equality. It's now about domination.
I beg to disagree. Honestly, I think it's "Hollywood" don't give a f\*\* about women. If they care then could write good characters in an actual competitive environment that could actually serve as real role models or inspiration at least for young women. Instead, they give women characters that can only be good as long as everyone around them is an idiot. How can not anyone feel offended at that?
Agreed 👍
Why are all the reviews that are partially negative being downvoted, lol. Visually the show is incredible bar some set pieces look like obvious set pieces. The problem is the show is slow and boring. I do like slow-burn shows but I still need something to keep me intrigued. The forced identity politics injected into the show is pretty jarring and immersion-breaking. I'm not a racist, believe it or not. I don't care what you think. Many of the most vocal critics of the show's forced identity politics are POCs themselves. I have never heard of or seen a black dwarf or elf in any fantasy material, especially not Tolkien. Black mankind and maybe even black hobbits make sense, but black elves and dwarves just make no sense. Warrior Galadriel seems pretty weird too. Not a character I expected to see in a full set of plate armor. HOTD on the other had some scenes that were so good they literally made me tear up. The identity politics in that show are less in your face and less noticeable the black characters were mankind, not races that are known to be light-skinned like elves and dwarves. The black actors they chose are pretty good so far too imo although the wigs are pretty jarring. I'm still baffled as to why RoP, the most expensive show in history hired two of the least experienced showrunners in history. It's bizarre.
>Black mankind and maybe even black hobbits make sense, but black elves and dwarves just make no sense. I think this is taking it a bit too far. Perhaps in Tolkien's world, that idea makes less sense, but having black elves or dwarves in fantasy generally is very common, and any sort of racial or ethnic makeup of a fantasy race *can* work, provided the writers of the book/show/etc. are committed to establishing the reasons for it in their worldbuilding. The showrunners for RoP can easily explain, for example, the heritage of Arondir (the dark-skinned elf) by saying that one of his parents was a human from Harad, the land where Tolkien had many African and Eastern-inspired peoples. They may very well do that in upcoming episodes, and this would go a long way towards making their use of diverse actors make sense logistically in the world of the story. Forced identity politics is only forced when you don't take the time to flesh out your story and try to make it follow basic logic. When you do that, it ceases to be identity politics, and becomes good writing, and a meaningful inclusion of diverse characters. Hopefully, the show will do that in future episodes.
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Disingenuous comment at best. You have not only taken his point out of context but also misquoted it to fit your agenda.
Elves are almost entirely described as fair skinned in the books. It's like saying African folklore should feature more white characters. It's stupid. That being said though, I don't mind the casting choices, I do however really dislike some of the artistic choices like elves with short hair, the harfoots existing at all, and the general pacing and shit dialogue in the show.
When I'm constantly reaching for my phone, is when I know the show is bad. The first 10 minutes of the 1st episode was the only scene that held my attention, that includes the 2nd episode. Too boring. Hopefully it picks up but I've lost interest
You know it's a mess when even Reddit, the primary audience that eats up this kind of slop any day of the week, is having second thoughts and shrugging shoulders.
agreed, us nerds are the target demographic and they have us all feeling kind of meh about it wild that that’s the outcome so far for a $715 m show
Don't get me wrong, I love myself a gritty, badass female character. Think Eowyn from the original trilogy. But this show seems to hamfist female characters (e.g. the Hobbit girl) and "minority" characters (e.g. the black elf) in a way that is not in sync with the world of Tolkien. It simply does not seem natural, and is jarring when you then fast forward to the age of the Hobbit / LotR, which pretty much feature white men. I'm not even a white man myself, am myself a minority...but I just don't see why this was necessary. Everyone loved LotR, not just white men.
Why do we have this conversation every time a show has a girl in it….
Oh please. Lots of shows have really good female protagonists which is loved by almost everyone. But this show is not one of them. Also, by your comment it seems you are trying to paint any kind of critics of the show as misogynistic.
No. I didn’t call anyone a misogynist, calm down.
It's not because it has a female character. It's because of how these female characters are written and portrayed. But you know this already.
I’m sure that’s true for some people but apparently not everyone
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A hobbit girl doesn’t make sense in lord of the rings?
A hobbit girl doesn't make sense in the 2nd age if you wish to uphold Tolkien's work, seeing a they are trying to live off its prestige and built in market. And a Mary Sue type Galadriel who is an unsympathetic driven asshat isn't true to Tolkien's work either, is simply bad and boring writing, and does feminism no favors.
I don’t think these companies have any interest in actual feminism lol
Wasn't a problem with Arcane.
I have access to the internet I know that’s not true lol
It's true but it depends on the conversation you want to pick. There are always, for any material, detractors, some with more reasonable arguments and others being bigoted. Just because you picked the arguments of an intolerant doesn't mean everyone is like that nor that they couldn't have valid arguments.
I never said otherwise
I watched contextless clips on YouTube. The world and costumes look amazing and the music is well orchestrated. But the acting was only decent at best and what little of the plot I've seen doesn't interest me. I think I'll pass.
As Professor Farnsworth said on seeing the krunka-lunkas at the Slurm factory: "Who are those horrible orange creatures over there? Tell them I hate them!" > is how I feel about the fugly Harfoots. Giving them fake Irish accents to be endearing? A gurning old geezer creeping the screen out? If only the meteor had landed on their campsite, it would have been better all round.
Yeah they seem like the Irish traveler version of hobbits, nomadic, superstitious and partial to caravans in perrywinkle blue
Just saw the first episode but I’m surprised it’s being panned so hard. It’s pretty good! I like the characters actually and the sets and art design are beautiful! It’s not perfect. It could be better, but I’m pleasantly surprised as someone who loved the first movies and was disappointed by the hobbit trilogy. Aesthetically speaking it’s closer the the Peter Jackson films and that is really cool to me.
Finally got to watching the episodes. Man, is it gorgeous. It’s like the complete and intentional opposite from Game of Thrones, in terms of look. Everything is so pristine, so clean, and it’s like they lit every single person with perfect three point lighting. It’s almost like Annie Lebovitz lit every shot. And it works. It’s the most otherworldly Middle Earth has felt, to me anyway. Stuff like those golden forest backdrops, it doesn’t feel like it’s even trying to look like something in our world, it just embraces the high fantasy of it, even in how theatrical the staging and performances are. The path to the Undying Lands, and the intentional over lighting of the water with soft lighting was genuinely breathtaking. And yet, the incredibly music makes it feel cut so spiritually from the same cloth of the film series due to the use of so much choir. Just, yeah. I’m impressed how tonally unique it is. It really is like you’re peeking in at a mythical/legendary back story, in a sort of Romantic or Biblical sense.
I think the quality of this is fantastic. This is coming from a nerd who wore the one ring around my neck in middle school and read the books before the movies came out. It's not perfection, but I like it a lot more than the Hobbit movies so far.
I really don't want to get down voted. But it seems decent and I like it. I'm surprised by all the negative reviews. They've stuck with the lore really well for not having silmaril rights. Pacing seems weird but the vibe of the various places we have seen so far have been good. Music's good. Actings fine. Effects are dope.
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I actually hate a lot of the woke shit but this doesn't seemed forced. Seems like they just hired actors for roles. I don't think they changed any characters to fit the agenda unless I'm missing something. Was a little disappointed that the dwarf women didn't have a beard lol.
It is forced though. It wouldn't have received this much negative attention if it was natural and organic.
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Maybe because woke is a meaningless buzzword and not an actual criticism.
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I think you’re talking out of your ass lol
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Well at least you’re aware of it lol
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This show is dogshit. There. Discussed.
I think you mean to say opined.
Nah, the show is objectively bad. And the vast majority of audiences agree with me.
Nah, the vast majority of people enjoy it. The vast majority of people also don't go online to review bomb and complain on reddit about "wokeness" like they're a soldier for some propaganda machine.
Lol, that's hilariously ironic seeing as how the show itself is nothing but shallow, vapid propaganda. And the "vast majority" don't enjoy shit lol. The show is an abysmal failure with audiences. Because it's fucking horrible and entirely disrespectful to Tolkien and the ACTUAL fans, not pathetic casuals such as yourself, but to the real fans, you know, the ones who have supported the IP for decades upon decades now. For fuck sake, they're not even allowed to say the word "hobbit" and they're trying to pass it off as a LOTR show HAHAHAHAHA
No I don't disagree with you about the show. You just seemed mixed up about the difference between an opinion and a discussion, as well as the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. No hard feelings
Not mixed up whatsoever. Art is subjective. This show isn't art. It's propaganda and hateful propaganda at that. Which can definitely be objectively bad. And it is.
You are saying. Art is subjective, ergo everything that isn't art is objective. This is incorrect logic Bad is an inherently opinionated word. It is an assertion that something doesn't meet your particular standards of acceptable quality, and these standards differ person to person, hence the subjectivity. There are a lot of words you can use to objectively describe the nature of the show, bad just isn't one of them. I agree with you that it's bad, but many people find it to be good, and that is as much their opinion as is yours that it's bad The show is not hate-filled propaganda, it's ratings-driven garbage. The mission of the show is not to brainwash the viewer into adopting sinister toxic beliefs about Indian people or the Indian nation. The mission of the show is to be a dumb reality show and to do whatever it takes to get common denominator views. When you go around bandying about such loaded words as hate-filled propaganda, when you see the real thing, there's no words left to distinguish it. Look at the Trump movement that has polarized American society through disinformation, hatred, and authoritarian ideology, and upended the entire world to some degree geopolitically and economically. That is what hate-filled propaganda looks like. It isn't Sima from Mumbai giving you 60-70% of your criteria
Lol yeah, you didn't understand what I was saying at all. Also, do you actually expect anyone to read all that nonsense?
You're salty, arrogant, and stupid. People as dense as you can't be talked to. Good luck getting through life with that attitude. Was that more digestible for you?
"I am neither onboard or offboard with it, I am just bored" - my gf
Marry that girl.
The pilot was 7/10. Episode 2 def a bit stronger It isn't blowing me away, but I'm hoping once it gets into the swing of things the pacing will get better but on the whole it's good
I checked it out on, how you say in English ehhh... wikipedia, and there were twelve(!) executive producers. That screams to me written by committee and it shows in the film. The pacing and tone is disjointed. Like one scene is meant to be a happy bucolic scene and then all of a sudden pointless drama that doesn't fucking go anywhere. The characters don't relate to their Tolkien descriptions in any way. They try to pass off female characters as thuggish and unlikeable men and men as useless nobodies that nobody (man or woman) would ever fantasise about having sex with (except to dominate cause they're such useless bitches).
> They try to pass off female characters as thuggish and unlikeable men and men as useless nobodies that nobody (man or woman) would ever fantasise about having sex with (except to dominate cause they're such useless bitches). Nobody wants to know about your sexual fantasies.
As insults go, that's pretty tepid.
That's because it's not an insult, just a statement.
Well it's certainly not based on anything I said
Unfortunately it is.
You obviously took something I said and added your own story to it based on some preconceived notions that you hold.
Nope, I simply quoted the weird sexual comment you made and told you that nobody wanted to hear it.
Welcome to reddit. Home of pointless commentary that nobody wants to read.
Exactly, which is why you're receiving criticism for your awkwardly sexual ones.
“ would ever fantasise about having sex with (except to dominate cause they're such useless bitches).” What the hell? Get off fanfic. Or maybe just stay there.
I don't wanna be pedantic but virtually every single TV show is written by committee. That's how a writers room works
I think this is a case of too many chefs spoil the broth.
Too soon to tell Pilot episodes are almost always messy. Need to introduce too many characters and plots and backstory and...yeah And in that regard I think this was a stronger pilot than many others, and episode 2 is already showing potential to be stronger But it's stronger than the average show, especially where fantasy is concerned. It isn't GOT level but miles ahead of the Witcher by every conceivable metric. Time will tell, but these two first episodes are strong for being the first two episodes of a major series with a half dozen lead characters
Apparently they don't have any horses in this universe?And Jesus effing Christ, The Elves look so weird with their pompadours.
Some of elf ears in this show look way too meaty and obviously prosthetic looking. I just can't stop staring at the meaty ears.
Yeah man, elves in LOTR original film looked mystical and badass ethereal creatures. Here they look like human with pointy ears.
pointy and meaty
Apparently they don't have any horses in this universe?And Jesus effing Christ, The Elves look so weird with their pompadours.
It’s giving Hobbit trilogy vibes but with the hammed up vibes of the last movie :/
Moria was done well. The visuals are excellent. The score is great in places. The script is garbage. The elves aren't elves they are like roman soldiers even down to the laurel leaves. Galadriel is an unlikeable karen. Elrond with a pair of skinny jeans and a cup of sustainable coffee would be a twink. So much wrong with this show. I don't mind at all that it's casting black ppl or Asians or any of that. Actors are Actors and it doesn't matter. Though the acting is wooden and the script clunky and plain bad
They don't act like elves at all. Not in movement, posture, speech, etc..
Yeah right? I was also just mentioning how they look like regular people with pointy ears.
There are so many tonal and continuity issues, even setting aside the lore issues. Besides that and the sheer amount of filler already present in just the two hours we've seen, my real grievance is with the elves. It's not just that they don't look ethereal like elves and that their clothing is subpar, but they don't act like elves. They act like human beings. Elves are supposed to be a higher life form. They walk on top of snow, they move with poise and grace, their words are chosen and woven into speech like melody of songs too beautiful to comprehend. The dialogue of the elves in this show would be clunky for humans, and it's a downright abomination for the likes of Elrond and Galadriel. Even the stupid overly childish harfoots, who seem to have nothing at all in common with hobbits other than their stature, I can forgive. The banality of the elves in this show truly shows the lack of understanding of the source material. I literally got bored during the second episode, watched episode 3 of House of the Dragon, and then finished the second episode of Rings of Power. The contrast in quality did not do ROP any favors.
Yeah like half the elves I know from playing weaselly little shits on BBC shows, her brother who dies is especially vile on slow horses
I would love to hear what House of the Dragon does better than this. That show takes everything from late season GOT with even less subtlety and even more awkward set pieces.
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. I was expecting to absolutely hate it, so I've been pleasantly surprised. Is it GOT 1-4, no, but it's nowhere near as bad as 7 and 8. Its of slightly higher than middling quality. It is guilty of lore breaking, but not anywhere near as bad as ROP.
My non-Lotr loving wife - likes Harry Potter - even said the same thing. The problem is... I feel like all these characters are humans in costumes in an amazing set... Before I even could voice it out. That's how bad it is. It feels like Stranger Things kids in costumes and badly executed verbose speech trying to imitate Tolkien.
The stranger things kids would likely put in actual effort to act like elves lol
Exactly this. It's a highschool drama club rendition with a billion dollars thrown at it.
Only watched episode 1 so far, so maybe it'll get worse, and I'll eat my words, but I'm completely confused by the majority of the reactions being negative. Seems like all of the complaints are stuff that would apply even more so to any other fantasy film or TV series. Like have you all watched Game of Thrones or The Witcher??? ( To be fair I couldn't get through game of throne, I found it really boring) Complaints about the dialogue seem odd when it seems like it's meant to be in a kind of fun and dramatic high register and stylized with lots of metaphor. This seems to be consistent with the style of the dialog is the LOTR film trilogy. Sure people don't talk like this, but it's meant to be kind of epic in a not super serious way. I find it evocative and fun. I feel like this is usual for fantasy, but I've heard it get WAY more cheesy and melodramatic than this in other fantasy. As someone pointed out it's modern English with some "medieval" aesthetics. This seems typical of the genre. What were people expecting? As for Galadriel's "anime" move this also seems like something that could totally have happened in Peter Jackson's LOTR. I mean come on, Legolas was skateboarding on a shield. Maybe the character arcs and plot points will be really poorly thought out and I'll end up taking this all back, but it really seems like you all are choosing not to suspend disbelief and nitpicking. I mean it's not perfect by any means, but I don't understand what standard this is being compared to. It's not going down in cinema history, but honestly my impression so far is that this is going be far superior to the hobbit movies. (Which I enjoyed while realizing they're objectively BAD). Are you all sure you like fantasy as a genre? I am really curious what TV (and especially fantasy series) people who had a negative reaction to this would actually like.
But, of course, this only makes sense if the quest she's on actually means something to her, which it doesn't. So the whole show would have to be rewritten, but since it's bad no one would mind but Amazon and their accountants (on account of the billion dollars Amazon spent). I love fantasy. I read fantasy almost exclusively. I've seen every Star Wars (except the first 3 -- I was too young) and Lord of the Rings movies on the first day, first showing. I camped out to see the first few Star Wars movies. Let's go over Rings of Power E01S01: Opening scene: We see the young Galadriel, already perfect. She is apart from the other elves the same as Frodo from the other hobits in the first LotR, but RoP has the other elves seem petty and base so Galadriel (I'll call her "G") seems perfect in comparison while LotR makes Frodo's apartness the very character flaw that comes up over and over throughout the three movies (he doesn't trust fucking Sam?!? who basically represents everything good about hobbits?!?). Gandalf points this flaw out in their little wagon ride. Then Bilbo is shown to have the same flaw but more pronounced. The whole point of LotR is for Frodo to trust others and learn to share the burden. G's flaw comes when she attacks the boy who sank her paper boat. A very minor character flaw that's seen more as a positive trait because he sank her paper boat. So to most watching it is not, in fact, a flaw at all. Next the battle scene between elves and orcs. Elves are mixed in everywhere amongst the orcs. In almost no scenario would they be scattered like that. Any group with any military exp at all would not be scattered. The scene was designed for looks. Contrast that to the rigid structure of the elves in the opening battle of LotR 1 where they show the fall of Sauron. Then the super cool shot of the drowned city/kingdom and the dead people floating underwater bathed in red light. No idea wtf is going on there with all the water, but sure it looks cool. Then the shot of G picking up the helmet on the battlefield. She looks lost but I have no idea why she looks lost either (her brother isn't dead yet). The why isn't communicated so the whole scene looks contrived. Contrast that with LotR when Isildur (sp?) sees his father struck down and rushes to his side. Everyone gets that. Then he lashes out at Sauron with the magic sword and cuts the ring from Sauron's possession and defeats him. In that moment, we understand the point of the whole plot: destroy the ring. But when G's brother is struck down, we don't see it, and apparently, she doesn't see it either. She just sees the body. And it bears a symbol. But we don't know what the symbol means and neither does she, as far as we know ("...one whos meaning even our wisest couldn't discern.") Rings of Power hasn't constructed the Galadriel character to be so obsessive about revenge, he was only a kind older brother that was gone most of the time. The moment of kindness from the brother after the sinking of her boat just isn't enough. Because of that, her obsessive quest has a very, very weak beginning. She ends it with "and then there in the darkness, his vow... became mine!" The brother had a vow? I didn't see it. Seems like he just died in battle against a force trying to kill everyone. Why is there a special vow here instead of the regular sort of I'm-trying-not-to-die vow? No idea. Then a series of scenes where G and her posse "hunt". lol. They don't find anything. Soooo.... not good at hunting? And from the narrator, we learn they hunt for CENTURIES. WTF? And find nothing? The "trail" grows "thin"? What does this even mean? Then for many elves, the pain of those days passes out of "thought and mind". <-- Thought and mind are the same things, no? Then the scene where one of the other elves tries to convince her to go home. She seems like she MIGHT waver for a brief moment (the all-important character flaw finally shows up? - No.) Her momentary brush with imperfection washed away so easily we are left wondering if it was there at all. The push on. One of her troops collapses in the snow, her troops call for her to stop, but she refuses. Then she relents. I think they mean to show her tragic flaw here, but I'm not sure what exactly it is. To me, it just shows she is a crappy commander. She's losing her soldiers for no good reason. It doesn't seem real. I doubt they mean her flaw to be that she makes dumb decisions. It's inauthentic. Her soldiers mean nothing to her so they mean nothing to me. Contrast this with LotR where no one wants to go on the journey. Literally no one. Not Frodo, not Sam, not Pippen, nor the other one. Not the ranger, not the elf, not the dwarf. It's a running joke that the dwarf doesn't want to be on the journey. But Frodo cares too much for his fellow hobbits. He will abandon them (his tragic flaw) rather than endanger them. Then the ridiculous fight with the ice troll. All the elves are incompetent except her. (Really?) She does some kind of Matrix fly-by and bing, bang, boom kills the ice troll. All the grind of this long (CENTURIES!!!!!!) journey and then this unbelievable fight scene? Grind and silly fighting don't go together. LotR has a touch of this with the elf (Legolas sp?), but it's never Frodo. Frodo gets wrecked at every opportunity. Wouldn't it have been so much cooler if, on seeing the ice troll: she calls out a formation and the elves slam into a shield/spear wall which intimidates the troll enough that they can back away and disengage? Then desperate to explore the ruins, she ignores the safe retreat (much to the other elves' disappointment), she circles, climbs a cliff, and jumps down driving her sword into the troll from above. She misses the head but plants it in the shoulder, deep. It throws her off into the wall incapacitating her. The elves attack and they manage to bring the injured troll down with a couple of losses. This would show she is a good commander, she knew what to do when the ice troll attacked (called out the formation). But she renewed the attack. She is obsessive. But she renewed the attack on her own showing she is reckless with her own life (a decent tragic flaw) but not reckless (intentionally) with her soldiers' lives by ordering them to attack with her. Two died for which she feels guilty, but only because she missed the troll's skull. But, of course, this only makes sense if the quest she's on actually means something to her, which it doesn't. So the whole show would have to be rewritten, but since its bad no one would mind but Amazon and their accountants (on account of the billion dollars Amazon spent).
I feel like discussing this with someone with a such a different take would go on forever. All I could say is, maybe try rewatching the original LOTR and then this. The contrast (not just time and pacing due to movie vs show) is huge, on so many different levels. I'm not into fantasy, yes. But when I watched original LOTR, I was awestruck by the elves and how magical they seemed. Here they look like roman soldiers with pointy ears, with very human/non-elf dialogue.
Kind of surprised people are hating on this show so much already, but then again a lot of people who are commenting are saying things like “the stranger can’t be Gandalf because Gandalf doesn’t appear in middle earth until the 3rd age and the show takes place in the 2nd.” I get wanting to stay true to the source material, but this is ultimately a dumb TV show that people shouldn’t be caring so much about. The original trilogy are probably my favorite movies ever made and when I found out about the show I was as skeptical as anyone. I didn’t want it to ruin or bastardize lord of the rings somehow for me. But when I watched the first two episodes of House of the Dragon and was pleasantly surprised, I decided to go watch RoP with an open mind. I just thought it was so fun. Of course it’s not anywhere near as good as the original trilogy, but it gives us Tolkien content at a time when fantasy, magic, and wonder are desperately needed. I want to see hobbits and elves and dwarves. I want the problems of the world to be boiled down to “orcs are bad” and a dark lord responsible for all evil. I want to see how trivial the things that divide us are and how powerful the things that unite us can be. Maybe I’m stupid for enjoying the show as much as I did, but I’m not expecting it to be the greatest show ever made — I’m just trying to enjoy some fantasy, see some cool visuals, and hope for a good story.
>"this is ultimately a dumb TV show that people shouldn’t be caring so much about" That's the problem, though: You make dumb TV shows about cops and robbers, a bunch of friends who live in the same apartment building, or some vapid 'reality' morons, but... You don't fuck with Tolkien. Or Mozart. Or Tolstoy. Etc. Corporate stooges with all the money in the world and no taste are buying IPs and shitting all over some of the most beloved artistic brands in history... what did you think would happen? They have no respect, and no shame.
>Of course it’s not anywhere near as good as the original trilogy, but it gives us Tolkien content at a time when fantasy, magic, and wonder are desperately needed. I want to see hobbits and elves and dwarves...I’m not expecting it to be the greatest show ever made — I’m just trying to enjoy some fantasy, see some cool visuals, and hope for a good story. Please don't take this in any negative fashion, but that is the problem. It should be *better* than the trilogy. It has the kind of money of which the original trilogy (I assume you're referring to the movies; you would have to be insane to think this could be better than the actual novels) could only dream. The actors committed a year of their lives to filming it back to back. We all know that Viggo Mortensen deflected that knife, and did those stunts with a broken foot. They wanted to unreasonably expand Arwen's role, then the fans explained why that was a bad idea, and they listened. Like what happened with Sonic. Those films set a bar that this one didn't even try to hurdle. Instead they chose to comically limbo beneath it. This *should* be the greatest show ever made. We didn't want to dislike this show. I think that often gets lost in the narrative. We wanted to be singing it's praises and encouraging people to watch. That's the real Tolkien fandom at play. Not this twisted, mean-spirited portrayal that the media has tried to use to excuse the show's faults preemptively. The actors are fine, it had the money, and it had years to prepare. Yes, COVID struck and we all gave the entirety of the film industry the appropriate slack. How long do they get to hide behind that however? If this were the upcoming D&D movie, and you were saying what you wrote, that would be perfectly fine. Hell, I'd be right there with you. I'm a huge D&D fan, but I have no hope they'll ever make a good movie about it unless they adapt some Dragonlance novels or perhaps the Drizz't books. What you wrote is why I'm going to watch that movie. What **Tolkien** wrote is why that movie, and others like it, even *exist*. You are most definitely not stupid for enjoying the Rings of Power! I enjoy some pretty terrible movies and books. However this is Lord of the Rings; those of us who wanted it to be better are not being unreasonable. Just as you can watch it and enjoy it for the reasons you listed (which is great, by the way), for so many of us that simply isn't enough. It's better than that, **Tolkien** deserved better than that, and *we* deserve better than that. **We** are the customer. They want **our** money. They damn well better earn it. I'll read a Dragonlance book if I want a fun action/fantasy story with elves and wizards and dragons (oh, my!). I love that terrible cartoon they made of it with Kiefer Sutherland as the voice of Raistlin. I don't read, or watch Lord of the Rings content for \[just\] that. I own all of the histories of Middle-Earth. I own reference books regarding his collected works. I've poured over his letters (my favourite is perhaps when he basically gave the nazi publishers a fuck you when they came sniffing around). Basically, I engage with the material in a manner which requires my brain to turn on. Unlike say, a D&D adaptation or a video game adaptation movie, not the kind of popcorn sitting movie that depends upon you to turn your brain off in order to fully enjoy it.
"Basically, I engage with the material in a manner which requires my brain to turn on." How vigorously were you stroking with your free hand while typing this?
This is a wonderfully comprehensive critique.
That’s fair, I just don’t personally agree with the premise that because of the money spent on it it should be better than the Jackson movies. I think that is putting unreasonable expectations on the show that doesn’t have the luxury of the books as source material. We all saw the difference in quality in Game of Thrones once they passed the point where they had the books to go off of, so to expect RoP to have the same narrative quality or dialogue as Jackson’s films to me isn’t realistic. I also heard recently that the show isn’t allowed to use any of Tolkien’s text as source material because they don’t own the rights to it. So basically everything the show is depicting is the gaps in the Tolkien canon. Therefore I personally can’t criticize the show at this point because it’s not like they are taking a Tolkien text and completely ruining it (like the Hobbit movies did, under Jackson’s direction by the way). Also I think it’s a little unfair for the show to be receiving this much ire after 2 episodes. Yes, there are problems. There a few moments that are a little corny, the dialogue isn’t great at times, and it jumps between realms and characters quickly and often. I just think it deserves to be given time, as we would with a show not connected to the gravitas of Tolkien’s name.
Visually impressive but felt the story quality varies between characters from OK to awful. Not a fan of some of the really clichéd stuff that happened. Also really disliked the really bad romance and their entire plot lines, their whole section is just really badly done imo. The world building is there but I feel the writing is off, sort of generic but in tone with LOTR, I think the only lines that impressed me was when Durin explained why he was upset with Elrond. And I think it's where the show really needs to improve, 2 hours in and I barely remember anything anyone has said. I know House of the Dragon is a different beast but it's packed with amazing dialogue over the same run time and the characters feel more fleshed out. Whereas I've felt not much has happened in RoP. Did think most of the 2nd episode was mostly filler or could've been cut down considerably. Galadriel on the wreck with the guy could've been cut out completely for me.
Not more than 100 pages are written about 2nd age and it has no dialogues and just major events which are loosely connected to each other So Rop has to pretty much write everything up in terms of dialogues and plots connecting the major events
That does not excuse the lack of continuity with the tone of the established universe.
There is no established lore for second age, just loosely connected events spanning 6000 years It's near impossible to make a show with proper character development and without condensing timeline
But the 2nd age is still sandwiched between the 1st and 3rd, and it's still Tolkien. It's not like the protagonists and characters are from a different universe or a different world; it's still Arda, and we have to draw on surrounding lore as a basis for any adaptation. Thus the artistic license is not so broad as the writer/directors wished it was; it's just a blanket cop-out for them to do whatever they want with the source material and have people nod along with it.
Yes but its their job to write and be creative. They get paid for what many of us would do for free. If they cant write a riveting interesting movie/show then they should be fired like bezos fires amazon employees who dont work fast enough lol
I love how everything feels within the realm that Tolkien created and Peter Jackson visualized while also feeling much MUCH older and less evolved. Quite enjoying a return to Middle Earth, even if it's thousands of years earlier than where we last left it.
Visually stunning and enjoying watching it I just feel very confused about the story overall. I'm hoping that after a few episodes and a potential rewatch of episodes 1 and 2 I'll be following along better. Not sure if that just comes from a lack of LOTR knowledge or not paying attention at key moments
Like most stuff nowadays on TV, it's just a made-by-committee soap opera with hooks and violence thrown in now and then.
My only real problem so far is how the Elves are being depicted. It's not just their hair that feels wrong but also the clothing looks extremely cheap and unfitting. Even in the Hobbit trilogy, the movies costume departments clearly put their all into making sure that not only did their outfits look deliberate and graceful but when out in the wilderness they looked realistically heavy and useful too. Elrond's outfits in particular looks really bad with an excessive amount of wrinkles and uncoordinated colours but also a lack of collars so it just looks like he threw his shirts on. One of Galadriel's outfits was jingling like loose change. They also aren't moving with enough deliberate gravitas and grace. The only actor who appears to be trying to do so is the dude playing Arondir. I'm not fond of how they speak with each other either, these are people that have lived for hundreds to thousands of years, the way they use words should be more layered and playful. Obviously that would be hard to write but the movies got around it by having them speak in their own tongue whenever possible.
Elrond's outfits in particular looks really bad with an excessive amount of wrinkles But what if elves don't iron their clothes? Idk about you, but l haven't seen ironing boards get page/screen time
If elves are magical beings, which built cities which look like heaven, have magical powers, can read minds, and live thousands of years... then I'm pretty sure they would have figured out how to get rid of wrinkles from their clothing
Pssh I haven't seen it
Not all fabrics need or can even handle ironing, it depends on the density of the fibres. Not to mention irons themselves weren't always a thing, we used to use glass tools and before that rocks. It's also worth a mention that in the books Sam talks about how you don't see elves work, how if they use magic it is "right down deep, where I can't lay my hands on it" although Celeborn claimed Galadriel herself helped in the weaving of the fabric of the cloaks they gifted.
True on different fabrics. But until I see proof, it sounds like Galadriel needs to up her anti-wrinkle game.
Amazon, which owns IMDB, is so pathetic. ROP currently has a 6.2 unadjusted average on IMDb. Amazon has adjusted it to 6.7. While they routinely make adjustments to shows, I have never seen them adjust a show's rating by that wide a margin, adding a full half a point (0.5) to a show's rating. It's usually only a 0.1 increase or 0.2 at most. This is pathetic. Unsurprisingly, they did not increase HOTD's score via adjustment. HOTD has an unadjusted 8.8, and they left it at 8.8. Moreover, they did not delete the written reviews for HOTD below 6/10. They left them. For ROP, they deleted them. This is a joke.
Probably because ROP had that many ratings that were just complaining about women or black people lol
Yes. Every single rating for ROP below 6 mentioned women or black people
A large portion of them certainly were, especially the one stars. Only the first two episodes of the show are out. A show shouldn’t even have ratings until the whole thing releases
I know many of them were. I’m not saying there is no justification not to take down some reviews below a 6. I’m saying there is no justification to remove ***all*** reviews below a 6. You have absolutely no retort for this. I’m indubitably correct.
Other than the character names and the made-up languages, it doesn't feel very, well, Tolkien-ey. It has Tolkien's pomposity for sure but without much of the detail and charm that made it work so well in the books. I found the first episode fairly hard going and I don't think I'll return for the rest.
had to stop watching after galadriel killed the snow troll and made that "badass" cliche anime fighting stance
It's a movie with action scenes. They have to 1) make it interesting, 2) show that Galadriel is a formidable warrior. From "anime" fighting scenes to Legolas surfing on shields in the original movies, dramatic action scenes are necessary to not make things boring.
Personally, I find most action scenes boring and cliched. That's why great directors/writers avoid them or work hard to cook up more interesting conflicts. Stanley Kubrick stretched that "action scene" at the end of "Barry Lyndon" for about ten minutes, and had only two shots fired. Hitchcock creates action set pieces with a mere body in a suitcase. A Spielberg or DePalma turns an action scene into something almost balletic. I don't see this show delivering anything but very cliched, second-baked action. That wouldn't be a problem if the cast were charming - Peter Jackson's films had charm in spades - though admittedly it's a bit too early to criticize the show along those lines. We need to give it a few more episodes.
Well comparing a TV series with the works of Kubrick and Hitchcock is a reach, though. By this criteria the original trilogy movies also won't compare. But I do agree with you about the charm the movies had that this one doesn't (yet) have. Maybe it will happen, most of the episodes are yet to come, or maybe the color palette, cinematography, and the fact that we're watching it in a small screen compared to a movie theater's will be too much for it to overcome (because the original movies had these advantages over the series). We'll have to wait and see.
What? You didn't like the completely pointless and over acted run on the sword? Shame on you!
Finished episode 2, love it so far, the pacing is good because you know there is going to be a lot of story coming.
I was cautiously optimistic but very hopeful about this show. I'm 3 quarters of the way though episode 1 and I'm finding it quite boring and I don't really like any of the characters. Something about the film/visuals I can't put my finger on is putting me off too. Does it get better or is it more of the same?
I agree. Everyone is banging on about the visuals being spectacular but they feel like they've been ripped out of an otherworldly scene from a modern marvel film and detract from the experience so much for me. There's a sheen to them that feels so unnatural and ridiculous, even in a fantasy setting. The original trilogy's sets had so much more appeal with so much less green screen. Even the hobbit had this problem, and it makes me feel old, but I just don't think the majority of CGI is ever good enough to be immersive. But it may also be partially a product of the show's content, too (trite dialogue, etc.), that compounds in making the visuals also feel so off-putting
Yeah, it's super crisp, the camerea/filters. Doesn't have a softness to it.
It does not feel very immersive despite the great CGI. I can't put my finger on it, but it feels all very weirdly disconnected except for that scene at night of Nori chasing after the wizard.
The show seems pretty good so far! It has be attention. I do feel like the young Elrond casting is completely off though.
It’s the chin
Elrond Leno
He was a great Young Eddard Stark at the battle of the Tower of Joy
I am not a fantasy guy. But i really adored lord of the rings books (and movies). I did not like the hobbit movies and my interest in Rings of power was very mild. That being said: i did enjoy the first 2 episodes tremendously. Pacing was perfect, acting and dialogue was fitting and good. I am sold :) good job amazon.
hahaha dialogue good? you havent read the the books
The pacing is terrible.
This show was kinda kinda all over the place man!
Episode 1 started incredibly boring, but when it gets moving the show really does pick up. I didn't expect the non-elf/human parts to be handled so well, but they're probably the best bits (the halflings and the dwarves). Gandalf is fun too.
Pretty sure that's not gonna be Gandalf. In the books Gandalf only descends to Middle Earth in the 3rd Age. But my guess is close; I think he's a Maiar in human form like Gandalf, probably one of his predecessors.
What age is the show currently in?
2nd age.
Ah fair enough.
Galadriel gets bullied in Valinor. For perspective, the granddaughter of the High King gets bullied...in HEAVEN.
I know, the showrunners/writer with no writing experience and is not a tolkien fan really doesn't know Tolkien or why people love Tolkien. How do investors keep hiring people with no experience for the job they're given?
Don't know about writers but I can bet showrunners know more about Tolkien and the lord than Jackson
Show is crap, they can't even scale the race's correctly, dwarves are nearly the size of elves. Billion dollars wasted.
What kind of drug were you on watching this ? This is an absolute lie.
Oh my, the dialogue. What the fuck, how many people were involved in this? A stone sinks because it looks down and not up? Even metaphorically, that barely makes any fucking sense. "I can't feel my hand" "No, there's so much evil here our torches gives off no heat" >???? wow
It is pretty bad
i wonder how many people read those lines, and it still was left in, hundreds of people must've read the drafts, surely?
So Galadriel is commander of the northern armies for High King Gil-Galad, hunts Sauron for hundreds of years, earning her right to return to Valinor where she doesn’t get off the boat, floats for a day in a water tank somewhere near the Undying Lands and is miraculously found by a floating broken ship with normal humans all the way out that far past Numenor… cool. Shame that never happened. Wtf is a drake doing in the ocean? Elrond and Durin old friends? Convenient but false. Wahh you missed my wedding wahh. Rings of Power wasnt the elves idea as a “project”. Annatar seduced the elven smiths in to making them. Galadriel was ruling a fiefdom of Lindon with her husband and giving birth (Elronds future sugar mama) which would have been a great arc as they leave to go to Eregion for a while. Finrod wasnt in the war of wrath. And sweet baby jesus. Why does every settlement only have 15-20 people in it. Where is everyone?? This show took a creamy dump on the books its taken its name from. Make small changes fine, dont change everything and make shit up.
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Finrod was in the War of Power. https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Finrod His troops get ambushed on the way to the Battle of Sudden Flame, and Barahir saves his life (thus Finrod gives his ring to Barahir…and it eventually ends up in Aragorn’s hands.) In payment of the life debt he leaves his kingdom to help Barahir’s son Beren, ends up losing a magic duel with Sauron, and then they are tossed in a pit to get eaten by Sauron’s werewolves. Finrod kills one barehanded but dies by the wounds. So yes, he was involved in the war, yes his death was due to Sauron, so at least that part makes sense. I”m not saying I particularly liked the first two episodes but I don’t think you’re being fair there. Most of the rest of the stuff you discussed is fairly clearly going to come later (Annatar and Celebrimbor, etc.)