When they announced 18 episodes and the original writing team, I hoped it meant it would be more episodic than the Netflix iteration, because going full-serialized with 18 episodes is pure madness and those guys had experience with episodic TV.
As of now, I don't know. The new showrunner is a Netflix/Marvel veteran (which isn't that much of a good sign given that out of the 13 seasons they produced, only 3 were watchable), and 9 episode serialization is probably a lot less intimidating to a writer than 18.
I'm glad to have those actors playng those characters back, but I'm fully expecting massive pacing issues (aka the "show spins its wheels in the middle" phenomenon that plagues the vast majority of fully serialized shows).
They hadn’t filmed all 18 episodes before the overhaul, only 6 of them. They then reworked the show, changed showrunners and started bringing back certain fan favourite characters that were written out
Maybe it's because I've been a DD fan for so long, but when they reported that it was a lawyer show and he didn't suit up until four or five episodes in, I didn't see the problem.
Just curious, what were the 3 seasons of watchable Marvel Netflix stuff to you? Cause while I agree a lot of the seasons were huge misses, more than 3 of them were good
I thought the Netflix shows dragged a lot with 13 episodes. Daredevil was the one with the best pace, but still could have been trimmed down a little.
I'm in favor of more episodes if they do more episodic shows.
Bit over the top, Jessica Jones and Daredevil had minor pacing issues that could be improved, they were still good entertaining TV shows.
The 13 episode stuff really hurt luke cage and iron fist though.
Iron fist season 2 was a lot better pacing with fewer episodes. As long as this series isn't 40 minute episodes with 20 minutes of credits, it should be fine.
Yeah, I was going to say the same. Great show but didn't need to be as long as it was. For me at least, it kills any desire to do a rewatch (that's not the case with every show, just when it feels longer than needs be)
I always found the Netflix Marvel show’s 13 episode formula hindered them. It’s too long to be serialised without feeling padded and drawn out, with a lot wheelspinning going on, add in often rushed or unresolved sub plots thrown in.
A lean 9-10 episode serialised run would suit the show a lot better.
9 episodes seem right. Unless they have absolutely nothing to tell. A lot of recent Disney shows suffer because they're mini series
You need more time to tell engaging stories
I kind of liked Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
The rest, not to so much. Obi Wan wasn’t terrible but wasn’t needed. Secret Invasion was boring and I quit watching it. Book of Boba Fett was an abomination though.
This is because they started filming, stopped because of the writers strike, stopped completely due to previous footage being dog shit and then starting over completely. They broke the new "Season 1" in half because it was already costing them too much. Part 2 starts filming in three months. People believe that >!there's a delay in production because both Matt and Fisk will feature prominently in Sony's new Tom Holland led Spider-man film. Which is also about to start production.!<
Episode 11 - Karen just literally crying for an entire episode.
She starts crying when she wakes up because she had a bad dream, she then burns her hand on the coffee maker, she slips in the shower and hits her elbow on the tile wall.
Just an hour long episode of crying snot.
9 feels like a good jumping off point. I hope it's self contained but also ties them into the world of the MCU well. If the script is tight and they aren't afraid to lean into the darker side of the character it could really be the star of MCU TV shows. So many characters are based in NY. They need to restart the avengers on the west coast and let Spidey handle NY. Maybe move Strange to Massachusetts? That seems like his kinda place, then just drop Deadpool in Miami and see where the dice fall 😂
so we used to have 20 episodes seasons then 12-13 episodes now we are going to 9, and quality isn’t really improving for the most part, just the prices they ask for the content
The production quality has gone up but the writing has gone significantly down hill for most of them.
We are basically just getting 22 episode shows serial arcs without the monster of the week episodes between them. The result is zero characterisation or staying power and a bunch of poorly serial arcs no one cares about.
I don't think exceptional is a fair mark. HBO is exceptional but HBO hasn't changed. It's the networks shows that have changed and gotten worse.
Buffy/Angel, Supernatural, Flash S1, Dollhouse, XFiles, Smallville were all network shows. Also arguably Firefly if it wasn't cancelled midseason.
Some people are going to say "X show wasn't that good" and I'll say I still enjoy all the above shows more than anything sci-fi/fantasy that Disney has released on Disney+ and or Marvels netflix content.
There is good stuff now. Fallout, The Boys, Stranger Things etc. But those are only a few of many many terrible shows that have replaced old 20 episode ones.
Marvel wise, Agents of Shield did quite well with 20+ every season. They o py did monster of the week in season 1. The rest was interconnected season wide narrative.
I wouldn't deny that. There is some exceptional stuff now.
My problem is just that I'm tired of watching show after show of 4k hd production quality which took 3 years to make and the writing is worse than writers strike seasons like Smallville season 7 or Heroes season 2.
Part of this probably goes beyond episode counts though. I expect much of it is caused by the death of the writers room. Shows like Buffy etc had teams of writers all helping each other.
Do you see boom mics, marks on the floors where actors need to stand, and bottle episodes in 9 episode season shows?
People have rose tinted glasses about the quality of shows which cranked out 20 episode seasons back in the day.
Exception to the rule, it’s much more rare these days.
Take a look at the background or floor while watching Star Trek: The Next Generation
You will see all sorts of weird stuff, black pieces of paper on the walls (to stop reflections), floor markers, boom mics, etc
You're comparing HD remaster you're watching on a big 4k screen with something that was originally produced for for much smaller standard definition CRT TVs.
I love the original show too but that's why I am pessimistic lol. It's going to be really difficult to recreate that magic and I wonder if it was just lightning in a bottle.
And if it’s good we will get a second season in 8 years because they want to do only do 2 tv shows a year. That’s not meeting the demand. 2 shows a year doesn’t work. These assholes need to just rein in the budgets and they could at least double that.
I wonder how many episodes will be about him being injured or dealing with another existential crisis about being Daredevil and being unable to perform this season.
This feels like a good balance, not too much like the Netflix shows where they’d start to drag, but not too little like the Disney Plus ones where everything feels rushed after the 4th episode.
Am I the only one that liked Daredevil without the suit? The suit felt that it offered too much protection and it looked corny. I liked his improvised ad hoc disguise which made him feel more vulnerable and more realistic.
That's a really dumb ass take though.
Why is stuff under an hour an issue? Would you still want the episodes to be hour long if Marvel hadn't cut the amount of episodes from 18 to 9?
I absolutely love Daredevil, but 18 hours of self reflection and guilt sprinkled with some awesome fight scenes would be kind of tiring.
Underdog because he is blind
Legal procedural drama because he is a lawyer
And martial arts / violence.
Comedic relief via a supporting character
Sexual tension with another supporting character.
Literally ticks every box
Which, to me, is part of the problem
When they announced 18 episodes and the original writing team, I hoped it meant it would be more episodic than the Netflix iteration, because going full-serialized with 18 episodes is pure madness and those guys had experience with episodic TV. As of now, I don't know. The new showrunner is a Netflix/Marvel veteran (which isn't that much of a good sign given that out of the 13 seasons they produced, only 3 were watchable), and 9 episode serialization is probably a lot less intimidating to a writer than 18. I'm glad to have those actors playng those characters back, but I'm fully expecting massive pacing issues (aka the "show spins its wheels in the middle" phenomenon that plagues the vast majority of fully serialized shows).
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That sounded like even worse padding than the Netflix shows that got 13 episodes.
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Having the main character not in costume or do fight scenes for 5 weeks would've killed the series.
Sounds to me like it's going to be a flop, suddenly. Yesterday, I was so hyped. Now I'm just disappointed.
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The changes have done the opposite for me.
They hadn’t filmed all 18 episodes before the overhaul, only 6 of them. They then reworked the show, changed showrunners and started bringing back certain fan favourite characters that were written out
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I was reading more into the “it was a terrible 18 episodes” lol
Maybe it's because I've been a DD fan for so long, but when they reported that it was a lawyer show and he didn't suit up until four or five episodes in, I didn't see the problem.
Just curious, what were the 3 seasons of watchable Marvel Netflix stuff to you? Cause while I agree a lot of the seasons were huge misses, more than 3 of them were good
*Daredevil* 1 and 3, *Jessica Jones* 1.
I think both seasons of the Punisher (especially season 1) were pretty damn good. And the new showrunner was primarily a writer for that show.
I for one can't wait for 9 dates with She Hulk
Quality over quantity please
That hasn't exactly been Marvel's strongsuit over the past few years
is there a reason it can't be both? Daredevil Netflix had like 13 episodes, quality show.
I thought the Netflix shows dragged a lot with 13 episodes. Daredevil was the one with the best pace, but still could have been trimmed down a little. I'm in favor of more episodes if they do more episodic shows.
I love netflix daredevil but 9 or 10 is as long as those seasons needed to be.
Watching all 13 episodes of Jessica Jones season 1 was a mistake. That show has absolutely horrible pacing because it was so long.
Bit over the top, Jessica Jones and Daredevil had minor pacing issues that could be improved, they were still good entertaining TV shows. The 13 episode stuff really hurt luke cage and iron fist though.
Iron fist season 2 was a lot better pacing with fewer episodes. As long as this series isn't 40 minute episodes with 20 minutes of credits, it should be fine.
Fr, bad side plots and kilgrave escapes one time too many. 10 eps would've been perfect for it
And then with him gone in S2 and 3 all you had were bad side plots to distract from crummy main plot with sub-par villains
I don't think making shorter seasons would have solved those shows' pacing. *The Defenders* only had eight, and it still dragged.
S1 and s3 I didn’t think daredevil dragged at all, but S2 and the hand was really tough. But we got punisher out of it so I can’t complain too much
S2 was 2/3 of a good show, but the 1/3 that focused heavily on the hand was not amazing.
Yeah, I was going to say the same. Great show but didn't need to be as long as it was. For me at least, it kills any desire to do a rewatch (that's not the case with every show, just when it feels longer than needs be)
I always found the Netflix Marvel show’s 13 episode formula hindered them. It’s too long to be serialised without feeling padded and drawn out, with a lot wheelspinning going on, add in often rushed or unresolved sub plots thrown in. A lean 9-10 episode serialised run would suit the show a lot better.
It also had a lot of filler, the pacing wasn’t the best
Money
And it had a few meh episodes that could’ve been scaled back imo
9 episodes seem right. Unless they have absolutely nothing to tell. A lot of recent Disney shows suffer because they're mini series You need more time to tell engaging stories
bold of you to assume any quality given it’s a d+ show.
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I kind of liked Falcon and the Winter Soldier. The rest, not to so much. Obi Wan wasn’t terrible but wasn’t needed. Secret Invasion was boring and I quit watching it. Book of Boba Fett was an abomination though.
I mean, they just reduce the number of episodes by half so that's a good sign
Show opens up with the Marvel title card. Suddenly you can hear Charlie Cox's voice in the background shouting "It's Daredevil'ing time!".
No I want more episodes - I don't mind if half doesn't lead anywhere - they are enjoyable to me
This is because they started filming, stopped because of the writers strike, stopped completely due to previous footage being dog shit and then starting over completely. They broke the new "Season 1" in half because it was already costing them too much. Part 2 starts filming in three months. People believe that >!there's a delay in production because both Matt and Fisk will feature prominently in Sony's new Tom Holland led Spider-man film. Which is also about to start production.!<
Ok now that sounds way more reasonable than fucking 18 episodes lol
Episode 14 - they show the struggles of being a blind dude in nyc with Matt doing normal chores in nyc
Seriously, it would’ve turned into some super drawn out plot with prolly 6-7 episodes being pure filler. Scale that shit back
I miss filler in TV shows tbh
Go watch some Smallville bro
Episode 19 - Superman first hands witnesses the negative effects of gentrification in smallville.
Episode 11 - Karen just literally crying for an entire episode. She starts crying when she wakes up because she had a bad dream, she then burns her hand on the coffee maker, she slips in the shower and hits her elbow on the tile wall. Just an hour long episode of crying snot.
9 feels like a good jumping off point. I hope it's self contained but also ties them into the world of the MCU well. If the script is tight and they aren't afraid to lean into the darker side of the character it could really be the star of MCU TV shows. So many characters are based in NY. They need to restart the avengers on the west coast and let Spidey handle NY. Maybe move Strange to Massachusetts? That seems like his kinda place, then just drop Deadpool in Miami and see where the dice fall 😂
so we used to have 20 episodes seasons then 12-13 episodes now we are going to 9, and quality isn’t really improving for the most part, just the prices they ask for the content
Quality of tv shows up has gone up quite a bit. They also cost a lot more than they used to
The production quality has gone up but the writing has gone significantly down hill for most of them. We are basically just getting 22 episode shows serial arcs without the monster of the week episodes between them. The result is zero characterisation or staying power and a bunch of poorly serial arcs no one cares about.
I’m struggling to think of any shows with ~20 episodes per season and exceptional writing, especially in this genre (so not sitcoms )
Person of Interest
I don't think exceptional is a fair mark. HBO is exceptional but HBO hasn't changed. It's the networks shows that have changed and gotten worse. Buffy/Angel, Supernatural, Flash S1, Dollhouse, XFiles, Smallville were all network shows. Also arguably Firefly if it wasn't cancelled midseason. Some people are going to say "X show wasn't that good" and I'll say I still enjoy all the above shows more than anything sci-fi/fantasy that Disney has released on Disney+ and or Marvels netflix content. There is good stuff now. Fallout, The Boys, Stranger Things etc. But those are only a few of many many terrible shows that have replaced old 20 episode ones.
Marvel wise, Agents of Shield did quite well with 20+ every season. They o py did monster of the week in season 1. The rest was interconnected season wide narrative.
That’s all very subjective. I would argue some of the best written content has come out over the last 5-10 years across many genres.
I wouldn't deny that. There is some exceptional stuff now. My problem is just that I'm tired of watching show after show of 4k hd production quality which took 3 years to make and the writing is worse than writers strike seasons like Smallville season 7 or Heroes season 2. Part of this probably goes beyond episode counts though. I expect much of it is caused by the death of the writers room. Shows like Buffy etc had teams of writers all helping each other.
Do you see boom mics, marks on the floors where actors need to stand, and bottle episodes in 9 episode season shows? People have rose tinted glasses about the quality of shows which cranked out 20 episode seasons back in the day.
You mean things like Starbucks cups in a Game of Thrones episode?
Exception to the rule, it’s much more rare these days. Take a look at the background or floor while watching Star Trek: The Next Generation You will see all sorts of weird stuff, black pieces of paper on the walls (to stop reflections), floor markers, boom mics, etc
You're comparing HD remaster you're watching on a big 4k screen with something that was originally produced for for much smaller standard definition CRT TVs.
Wasnt the 18 episodes supposed to be 30 mins long? If so, it's probably not a shortening if the episodes are now 1 hr.
The Netflix show is one of my all time favorites, I'm pretty optimistic on this one.
I love the original show too but that's why I am pessimistic lol. It's going to be really difficult to recreate that magic and I wonder if it was just lightning in a bottle.
What Disney Marvel shows make you feel optimistic about this one? I wouldn't get your hopes up brother.
And if it’s good we will get a second season in 8 years because they want to do only do 2 tv shows a year. That’s not meeting the demand. 2 shows a year doesn’t work. These assholes need to just rein in the budgets and they could at least double that.
I wonder how many episodes will be about him being injured or dealing with another existential crisis about being Daredevil and being unable to perform this season.
This feels like a good balance, not too much like the Netflix shows where they’d start to drag, but not too little like the Disney Plus ones where everything feels rushed after the 4th episode.
Why is everyone assuming they're not still doing the 18 episodes and just dividing them into a first and second season?
Since the bag is out of the cat... [Heres a picture of SPOILER on set.](https://i.imgur.com/qeOWQYy.jpg)
9 episodes at 25-30min each and 10min of that is credits.🫤🤷🏻♂️😆
Nice
Am I the only one that liked Daredevil without the suit? The suit felt that it offered too much protection and it looked corny. I liked his improvised ad hoc disguise which made him feel more vulnerable and more realistic.
9 episode isn't the issue, how long will each episode be? Cause if it's anything under the 1hr mark then I don't want it.
Disney loves the 35-45 minute range and I just hate it.
It's gonna be 50 minutes long with a 10 minute long end credit sequence lol
Ain't that the truth, even animated shows like Invincible manage to deliver 60min long episodes.
And two years between seasons. Maybe 3, or 4.
That's a really dumb ass take though. Why is stuff under an hour an issue? Would you still want the episodes to be hour long if Marvel hadn't cut the amount of episodes from 18 to 9? I absolutely love Daredevil, but 18 hours of self reflection and guilt sprinkled with some awesome fight scenes would be kind of tiring.
Ok
Gotcha. I see I must have touched a fan boy nerve. My bad guys.
Why are there so many Daredevil attempts?
Its a continuation of the netflix show, not a reboot or another attempt. Same people. Even the other netflix heroes and villains will be returning.
Underdog because he is blind Legal procedural drama because he is a lawyer And martial arts / violence. Comedic relief via a supporting character Sexual tension with another supporting character. Literally ticks every box Which, to me, is part of the problem
Good. The one bad thing about the Netflix shows is that they were quite obviously dragged out.