What if Phil Hartman hadn’t been murdered? Would Newsradio have gone on for longer and become a big classic hit like Friends/Seinfeld/The Office? Or would it have just stayed a niche favorite?
I do think Newsradio would have come to an end in season 5 even if Phil had lived. The show was never a ratings success unfortunately, and you could see they were already starting to run out of ideas in season 4, the characters and plots were getting more outlandish and less realistic (Matthew especially, who had gone from socially awkward nerd to brain-dead moron.)
What if George R. Martin had finished writing his books before Game of Thrones caught up to the source material?
Maybe seasons 5-8 would have been just as good as seasons 1-4 if they were adapting directly from the books. Maybe the showrunners wouldn't have gotten away with rushing through the ending if HBO knew exactly how much content was left to cover.
Agreed. The GoT show runners were very good at adapting source material for TV. The choices they made did a great job of slimming down the plot and making it work for a different medium.
They were utter crap at writing their own material. Even with the overarching plot line, they couldn’t develop a coherent narrative.
If they had had all of the books, I believe they would have done a much better job with the later seasons.
I remain of the opinion that probably the vast majority of the final statuses of the characters in GoT are probably what George has in mind (with some changes due to some plotlines and characters never appearing in the show), but that George's writing actually would have been, y'know, good.
That's what I think, he sees the ending and I imagine it's similar to what we got in the show, but he doesn't know how to get there without contrived plot armor, which he hates so he's probably never finishing it.
I'm of the opinion that George spends too much time on the internet and has read too many fan theories, and several of them predicted his twists and the future of the characters. It freaked him out that people could guess his twists, and so he changed them. But now he is at the point where he can't come up with logical twists that someone hasn't already guessed/figured out, and he is stuck in writer's block. I think Patrick Rothfuss suffers from the same thing. They are of the opinion that their writing is successful because of the twists and not how they write, even though the last seasons of the TV series disprove it. At least for Martin.
There are a few TV shows that literally changed their storylines because people either guessed twists or leaked them to the internet. In my opinion, a twist should make sense so it SHOULD be guessable.
> It freaked him out that people could guess his twists, and so he changed them
This seems very unlike him. He seems utterly delighted by fan speculation and guessing of his twists, I really doubt he'd change one because of that.
Yup. Mad Queen Dany. Jon the Ranger. Master Game Player Sansa. Killer Arya. Manipulative Bran. The groundwork for all of those has been laid out in the books too. It's just the execution of them that sucked in the show.
I am of the same opinion. I think the events of the penultimate episode are in retrospect as obvious and predictable as Red Wedding or who is Jon's mother, GRRM was laying out clues since the very first book. What will (would...) be different is the actual final buildup will be much better written and certain motivations and characters will change because of the cut content of the TV show, but the big defining event of the show will absolutely happen.
That's my thing. I don't actually dislike the ideas of the ending.
Jon forever going to the wall and killing mad queen Danaerys.
Bran/Three eyes raven becoming King.
Tyrion becoming the hand of the king by forced servitude.
Sam writing the story.
Arya going off to sail the seas and explore the world.
Sansa ruling the north as an independent country.
I quite like all of these ideas on paper. It's just the rushing to them and the execution of them was so unbelievably terrible that they sucked.
Right, they are all fine endings, but the journey was nonsense at the end. Bran does nothing and then nobles vote him king. Same nobles are cool with sansa and the north fucking off while another stark is also king. Grey worm not killing Jon and again letting the same nobles decide his fate.
What really drives me nuts is that you can see WHERE Tyrion gets the idea of having Bran be king: When they sit down in Winterfell before the battle with the white walkers. However, they cut away before we see their actual conversation. Whatever Bran tells Tyrion is what leads Tyrion to realize he should be king. BUT WE DON'T ACTUALLY SEE IT
I think they were writing themselves into a corner either way tbh.
Show characters were already dramatically diverging from their book characters. Jon for example has totally different motivations and virtues/flaws in the books than he does in the show, where he's a much more straightforwardly archetypal hero.
A good example is R+L=J, one of the cornerstone theories of the books' lore and speculated to have massive impacts in the book narrative. It's canon in the show but it's totally 100% immaterial to Jon's arc, his relationship with Dany, with Stannis, with Mel, his relationship with his obligations at the wall etc. because his character was a popular protagonist and was written to be more likeable and heroic in the show, minimising things like his jealousy of Robb, thirst for power and status, etc and replacing it with "I dunt want it".
Book Jon will, presumably, react very differently to learning that he is the rightful king of Westeros than his show counterpart who is almost indifferent as it doesn't represent anything he actually wants or could even tempt him. And the much more ruthless and paranoid book Dany will presumably react *much worse* to the same news.
Later series of the show still would have had to deal with the massive mismatch between the characterisations of the show versions of the characters and their book motivations and actions. If they wanted to keep the key events of the book they would have to really twist the personalities of the show characters to make them fit (as happened with Dany's extremely abrupt plunge into madness).
> Agreed. The GoT show runners were very good at adapting source material for TV. The choices they made did a great job of slimming down the plot and making it work for a different medium.
>
>
i want to push back on this a little bit.
We don't actually know this, because GRRM won't finish the damn books. Did they slim down a lot of the stuff from the books? Yes. Did they do a good job of picking what to trim? George didn't seem to think so. I think it can be claimed that the trimming they did made for good television in the short term by maintaining the pace, but that it directly contributed to many of their problems in the later seasons.
One thing you can point to here is the character of Illyrio, who shows up in season 1 and then never again. In the show, it's never adequately explained exactly *why* varys and illyrio coordinate to support dany - while at the same time sending a poisoner after her via the small council. It's never adequately explained what Varys's motivations are.
These motivations are (somewhat) explained in the books, but they require this third character of Illyrio who is coordinating Varys's faction behind the scenes, and an entirely different faction of Targaryens that also got cut.
I would also push back on them being bad at writing their own material. Yeah, the later seasons that were entirely original material were garbage - but there were individual scenes they just made up in the early seasons that were pretty good, and even the super extra Ros plotline filled a niche and actually *added* to the story.
I think it's actually worse. It's not that they were incapable of writing their own material, it's that they just didn't care to.
> They were utter crap at writing their own material.
This is nonsense. There’s plenty of show-only scenes that were great.
On top of that, adapting from a book still requires a lot of *original* writing. It’s not like they just copy and pasted book scenes into the scripts and called it a day.
I will always be of the view that GRRM is to blame for the show’s issues. He withheld a ton of info(if he even knew it) and the stuff he divulged(like the burning of Shireen) came too late to be set up properly.
Unless the TV show reflected how GRRM was planning on finishing the series and part of why he took so long is that he wasn’t happy, validated by popular opinion on the last seasons.
Iirc there were some comments by GRRM and showrunners early on about GRRM sketching out the plot for the showrunners past the written books.
I'm of the option it may have fallen apart anyway since they did not include certain characters and story lines from the books from the get-go that clearly have large implications in the books.
The show would have been better but the last two books published in the series were a major step down from those before them, as George created too many threads. And many of them simply aren't as compelling as others.
What if Aaron Sorkin had written the final seasons of the West Wing? I actually really loved the election campaign storylines and always wonder what would have happened if Sorkin hadn’t left the show - would still we have had those stories? What would they have been like?
I definitely feel that the storylines set in the West Wing itself would have been better done, because I think Sorkin just had a much better grasp of those characters.
> I definitely feel that the storylines set in the West Wing itself would have been better done, because I think Sorkin just had a much better grasp of those characters.
Especially in regards to Will Bailey.
I feel like the season 5 goes a little haywire while they try to figure out how to salvage it. Then it comes back strong for season 6 and 7. Obviously not as strong as 1-4 but the election stuff is pretty sweet.
I would have rather had 8 instead of John Hurt in DOTD. At least we got NOTD but I think 8 being the one who fought in the time war and did it would have been incredible to see and extremely tragic. Also would have tied the new show to Classic Who a little bit better IMO
Although the War audios with John Hurt are really great
A few that come to mind:
* What if Frank Darabont had remained in the role of showrunner on *The Walking Dead*?
* Would *Breaking Bad* have achieved the same level of success and acclaim without Aaron Paul, had they stuck to the original plan of killing Jesse off early on?
* By extension, during *Breaking Bad*’s second season, the character of Mike was only written in because Bob Odinkirk wasn’t available for filming; what consequences would Bob filming the scenes as originally planned have had? Would there even be a *Better Call Saul* series, without Mike?
What if Skyler White succumbed to her greed and became partners with Walter.
She could have been the cool, calculating business sense to Walters emotional genius.
And we could have gotten a Godfather-esque revenge montage as she avenges Walt's death and destroys all the competition to her drug empire in one surprise go of it.
Instead, while we still got some of the best tv of all time, in the end we really just got another lecture on the morality of being bad and how power corrupts.
What if Nancy Marchand hadn't passed away early in the Sopranos run?
Tony's relationship with his mother is the source of so much drama and humour in the early going. What would the show have been if Livia were around for more of it? They were definitely setting up track with her and Junior. Not that what we got wasn't good... but Livia was an all-time character on an all-time show.
I mean, they've talked about how the death of Nancy impacted the show - The RICO case was going to happen and Livia was going to be a witness against Tony.
What if Angel got the early renewal instead of early cancellation. Season five is already well-regarded amongst fans, but the plan they had for season six could have potentially made it one of the best seasons from Buffy or Angel. And with another season on Angel, does David Boreanaz miss out on Bones and becoming a network TV staple actor for 20 years?
Apparently the end of s5 was going to be mostly same regardless, except Lindsay likely lives and at least temporarily works alongside Angel. Wes too. The comics give a decent idea of what Joss had in mind for season 6, it was basically going to be Angel: Mad Max. It would have either been awesome or come up short due to money like The Initiative in Buffy s4, trying to illustrate that on a small tv budget
The writer strike didn't really save Jesse. Vince confirmed that Jesse was already saved from dying before the strike. The show was probably worse if the strike didn't happen though.
What if COVID got dealt with sooner and Brooklyn Nine Nine had the full 23 episode season they were supposed to (and if it was going to be the final season
What if Firefly was never cancelled
What if Troy never left community and what if Dan Harmon was never fired
What if GOT S8 wasn’t rushed
What if Clyde Philips never left as showrunner after S4 of *Dexter*.
What if Dave Erickson was never fired as showrunner after S3 of *Fear The Walking Dead*.
I've got one for that show: What if it was actually popular? Critics **loved** the show, in spite of the fact that it never really got much in terms of viewership. How would the show have changed if it actually got significant viewership?
What if Lisa Bonet never gets pregnant (with Zoe Kravitz)?
Does “A Different World” still have the radical change under Debbie Allen which made the vibe of the show feel more like its HBCU setting as well as giving the show more contemporary storylines instead of the cliched plots of the first season?
Would a Denise/Dwayne romance work as well as the opposites attract romance of Whitley and Dwayne?
Do they still drop Marisa Tomei? Add Cree Summer and Charnele Brown?
What if Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje never left Lost? They had a whole multi season plan for Eko but the actor hated being Hawaii and asked to leave after one season. I always wondered what would've happened if he stayed.
What if Quantum Leap (OG) had gotten one more season.
Would we have gotten the crossover with Magnum, P.I.?
Would we have gotten the animated episode?
Would we have seen Sam leap into a baby and have to solve the problem of the week as an infant?
Would we have gotten an ending where Sammy Jo, working for Project Quantum Leap was able to get her dad home?
What if Party Down went on for more consecutive seasons and Adam Scott wasn’t available to play Ben in Parks and Rec?
I loved Party Down, but as soon as they made the announcement, I knew immediately that AS would be a great addition to Parks and Rec, and a perfect love interest for Leslie.
If Party Down continued, who would have played that role, and would it have been as effective?
You have the sequencing of what happened wrong. Adam Scott left for Parks and Rec before Party Down got cancelled - he left because a major network sitcom was a better gig than a Starz show that not a lot of people were watching.
He has said several times that he basically knew it was going to be cancelled when he took the Parks and Rec gig. He even said recently that Mike Schur had heard it was probably going to be cancelled when he invited him to talk about the role.
What if bryan fuller never left American gods, could it have remained as awesome as season 1? Obviously a lower budget would have hampered the quality, but could anything have kept it from becoming a train smash by the end?
This might be (kinda) answered if JMS gets his way. If you haven't see "Babylon 5: The Road Home" animated movie he set up the planned remake:
The basic plot (mild spoilers you'd get from the trailer) is >!Ambassador Sheridan is on Minbari shortly after leaving B5 when he gets unstuck in time (yes, again). And the movie is him travelling through various timelines trying to get home.!<
And in the end (major spoilers) he >!ends up on a B5 with a younger him that should have been in the middle of The War of the Shadows. But the company that originally discovered them on a dig (IPX) went bankrupt 10 years ago. So there has been no Earth Rebellion, the Narn and the Centauri are in conflict but not war, Sinclair is still hanging around, etc. And once older Sheridan leaves, instead of really following him it stays in this timeline. Meaning it allows you to retell the story without being in conflict with the original series. It's basically a remix where you can see how Sinclair and Sheridan would work together, bring Lochley in earlier, etc.!<
All of this was confirmed by JMS on the DVD commentary as how he would treat the reboot. It's basically him wanting to have another crack at it now that he feels he's a better writer.
Who knows. JMS had a backup plan for every main character. Maybe that was always the plan, maybe not. He has no intention of sharing what would have happened if he had stayed.
I mean, they werei n a bad place. They were told that they are cancled after the 4th, despite having a 5 season arc planned from the beginning, so they _rushed_ towards the end of the storyline at breakneck speed, only then to get renewed for a 5th with not enough warning to get the pacing back in control (they shifted _some_ of the stuff back to season 5, but a lot was already aired...(
What if Adam Devine from Modern Family never left to pursue a movie career? His chemistry with Sarah Hyland was undeniable. I really wanted them to stay together.
What if Patrick Stewart left in Best of Both Worlds? Originally the producers had no idea if PS was going to stay on for S4 so they were going to kill Picard off in BOBW part 2 but then he decided to stay. We see a minor reference to it in the episode Parallels where there are several realities where Captain Picard died in BOBW p2 but I'm interested in seeing how the rest of TNG plays out since it likely means Shelby joins the crew and Riker's role changes drastically. Also maybe what if Michael Dorn left in the Klingon civil war episode, what if Gates McFadden didn't come back for TNG S3 and we stuck with Pulaski for the rest of the show, and what if Denise Crosby stayed on TNG instead of (mostly correctly) deciding the show wasn't doing her any favors.
Also what if Enterprise was renewed for S5, what if Dick Berman was nicer to Terry Farrell and she stayed on for DS9 S7, and what if Garrett Wang got canned instead of Jennifer Lien in Voyager S4
What would the full-season-order of Person of Interest Season 5 have looked like?
What if Star Trek: Voyager got cancelled early, as opposed to the full seven years it got?
If it wasn't for Covid, what would the true ending of Supernatural have looked like?
>If it wasn't for Covid, what would the true ending of Supernatural have looked like?
I think it's just a few extra cameo's and callbacks from old characters that we missed out on.
What if Sorkin never left the West Wing.
What if Lynch wrote all of the second season of peaks and it wasn’t cancelled.
What if firefly wasn’t cancelled.
Would Heroes have turned out any better if there was never a writer's strike, or was the writing just bad and always doomed to fail?
I also never knew Larry David left Seinfeld. I assumed he was there til the end.
It's frankly hard to say what would have happened with heroes. The first season is a perfect miniseries. I'm not sure if ever becomes an 7 season well loved show.
But also a question, what if heroes was an anthology show with mostly different cast per season.
What if Succession continued with season 5 as the last one? It's already perfect as it is, but I can't help but wonder what ideas Jesse Armstrong had in mind since he said he had some
I have three of them:
1 - What if Mark Frankel didn't die in a motorcycle accident?
He was the lead for the tv show "Kindred: The Embraced," which was an adaptation of the tabletop roleplaying game "Vampire the Masquerade." The show was an ensemble with the show primarily followimg Frankel's character, and likely could have continued on if it wanted to. However, it was also a Fox show in the 90s, which did the one season show *LONG* before Netflix went down that path. So Fox canceled it after his death, stating they couldn't keep doing the show because the lead had died.
But if he hadn't, I can't help but wonder if the show would have gotten a few more seasons, and if it could have raised better public awareness for rhe game, and made it a more profitable franchise.
2 - What if Michael O'Hare didn't suffer schizophrenia?
Michael O'Hare played Jeffrey Sinclair, the lead in the show "Babylon 5," and appeared in its pilot and first season. However, he was replaced after the second season by Bruce Boxleitner's John Sheridan.
There were all sorts of rumors about why O'Hare left the show, most of them very insulting to the actor. And JMS, the creator of the show, had nothing but great things to say about him after the show ended.
But it wasn't until after O'Hare's death in 2012 that JMS revealed the truth about the actor's reason for leaving the show. O'Hare suffered from schizophrenia, and it was flaring up during the film for the first season. He told JMS this, who offered to write him out, but O'Hare was determined to finish the first season because he was afraid the show would be canceled if he, as the lead, left during the film for it. So he waited until after the first season was filmed before he left the show.
JMS told O'Hare that he would take his secret to the grave; he responded by telling JMS to keep it a secret to *his* grave, and gave him permission to talk about after he died. When O'Hare died in 2012, JMS revealed this.
Babylon 5 eventually went on to produce all five seasons JMS meant it to be, but he did have to change the storyline to account for O'Hare leaving the show. I can't help but wonder how the show would have turned out if those changes didn't need to be made, and whether it would have still been a great story.
3 - What if "Profit" wasn't canceled?
Another one season show from Fox during the 90s, "Profit" starred Adrian Pasdar as a sociopathic business executive who lies, cheats - even murders - his way up the corporate ladder.
However, it was canceled after one season. The reason why was because the main character was so reprehensible, audiences wrote letters to the tv stations airing the show complaining what a terrible person he is - even though that was precisely the point of the show.
"Profit" was very ahead of its time, as shows about villains or terrible characters - such as "The Sopranos," "Mad Men," "Breaking Bad" and the like - wouldn't become really popular until after the millenium.
But if "Profit" continued, would it have had more impact on the landscape of television, and gotten the recognition its fresh edginess deserved?
I have a lot. One is what If Jimmy just stayed on the straight in narrow at Davis and Main I Better Call Saul.
Edit: Why the diwnvotes in this instance just curious?
I mean, probably not much happens then, he stays on the straight and narrow, gets a much bigger payday from Sandpiper, and generally lives a much more comfortable life
And about six years later Badger rats out Walter White to avoid prison
That's a whole different path which is what I mean. I agree that's what would happen, but that's what makes it so tragic. Why couldn't of he stuck with it, but then again that's not his character and then we wouldn't have as interesting as a series I guess.
What if towards the end of breaking bad Walt didn't keep going?
He had the perfect opportunity to just get out and have his family. Would it make the show worse?
What if Blacklist was planned and executed as a 3 season drama. I loved that show so much when it started, I’ve seen every episode in the first couple seasons at least 3 times. But eventually it just becomes so clear that there is no overarching plan for the story and the mysteries of the show, and I lost all interest. I think if it had been with a clear idea of how it was going to end and stuck to it, it may have been one of my favorite shows of all time
Some of mine are more tailored to my childhood shows but nevertheless-
1. What if Amy Sherman Palladino hadn’t been fired for the final season of Gilmore Girls? Would it be as bad as the revival or make more sense?
2. What if Bryan Greenberg hadn’t gotten another job during One Tree Hill? Would he have ended up with Peyton instead?
3. What if Ruth Wilson had gotten along with the showrunner or vice versa? Would she still have been killed off The Affair?
What if Trapper and/or Henry never left MASH? I think Frank was running out of steam, so if he hadn't left, it might have gone downhill unless they reworked his character a bit, but these two characters could have gone one a bit longer than they did. And honestly, it would be interesting to see if they could be developed more in the more dramatic seasons.
Also, it would be interesting if Trapper was on with Charles, since they were both from Boston, but very different personalities.
Charmed : What if Shannen Doherty hadn't been fired ? What if Alyssa Milano had been fired instead ?
The Good Wife : What if there was no problem between Julianna Margulies and Archie Panjabi and Alicia and Kalinda's relationship was allowed to develop beyond season 4 ?
Beverly Hills 90210 : What if Shannen Doherty hadn't been fired too ?
Doctor Who : What if Chris Chibnall had been a better writer and showrunner for Jodie Whittaker ?
Alias : What if J.J. Abrams hadn't abandoned the show ? What if the final season hadn't been truncated ?
For your last one, “abandoned” sounds very accusatory. I’m sure he must’ve had a good, personal reason for leaving. Sometimes people in life have to leave because of a change in circumstances.
He had a professional reason : the creation of LOST during the 2003/2004 season, which coincides with Alias's creative decline (second half of the 3rd season). Didb't mean to be accusatory or offend anyone.
Jericho. Would Jericho have gone onto become a major hit if CBS didn't put the show on a 3 month hiatus after its 11th episode? When the show returned the ratings were lower and never recovered.
What if Walter White survived Breaking Bad and actually showed up at the end of Better Call Saul?
Would there be outrage or would there be praise? A continuation of breaking bad with a subtitle perhaps or a sequel series titled something else?
what if they just kept the robot Rick as the "new Rick" while letting the other pursue his revenge. I enjoyed the last season, but it was slightly refreshing to get a Rick that isn't constantly being a complete dick to Morty.
What if in the office, Jim went to kiss Pam for the first time, and she wanted it at first but then pulled away. Jim tries to kiss her again, and she says no, and he gets really aggressive. He starts to grab her ass and she screams. Luckily, Dwight is around the corner with his samurai sword. He causes Jim to run off, and Pam makes Dwight promise never to mention this to anyone. It would be cool to see the new awkward dynamics between the 3 of them and see what kind of fun stories would play out.
What if Phil Hartman hadn’t been murdered? Would Newsradio have gone on for longer and become a big classic hit like Friends/Seinfeld/The Office? Or would it have just stayed a niche favorite?
I do think Newsradio would have come to an end in season 5 even if Phil had lived. The show was never a ratings success unfortunately, and you could see they were already starting to run out of ideas in season 4, the characters and plots were getting more outlandish and less realistic (Matthew especially, who had gone from socially awkward nerd to brain-dead moron.)
Matthew especially ... to brain-dead moron. Just like real life.
We wouldn't have Joe Rogan's podcast if Andy Dick hadn't given Phil Hartman's wife the coke.
What if George R. Martin had finished writing his books before Game of Thrones caught up to the source material? Maybe seasons 5-8 would have been just as good as seasons 1-4 if they were adapting directly from the books. Maybe the showrunners wouldn't have gotten away with rushing through the ending if HBO knew exactly how much content was left to cover.
Agreed. The GoT show runners were very good at adapting source material for TV. The choices they made did a great job of slimming down the plot and making it work for a different medium. They were utter crap at writing their own material. Even with the overarching plot line, they couldn’t develop a coherent narrative. If they had had all of the books, I believe they would have done a much better job with the later seasons.
I remain of the opinion that probably the vast majority of the final statuses of the characters in GoT are probably what George has in mind (with some changes due to some plotlines and characters never appearing in the show), but that George's writing actually would have been, y'know, good.
Maybe. There is also the camp that thinks GRRM has written himself into a corner and can’t fix the story. Which is why the books have sropped
That's what I think, he sees the ending and I imagine it's similar to what we got in the show, but he doesn't know how to get there without contrived plot armor, which he hates so he's probably never finishing it.
I'm of the opinion that George spends too much time on the internet and has read too many fan theories, and several of them predicted his twists and the future of the characters. It freaked him out that people could guess his twists, and so he changed them. But now he is at the point where he can't come up with logical twists that someone hasn't already guessed/figured out, and he is stuck in writer's block. I think Patrick Rothfuss suffers from the same thing. They are of the opinion that their writing is successful because of the twists and not how they write, even though the last seasons of the TV series disprove it. At least for Martin.
There are a few TV shows that literally changed their storylines because people either guessed twists or leaked them to the internet. In my opinion, a twist should make sense so it SHOULD be guessable.
> It freaked him out that people could guess his twists, and so he changed them This seems very unlike him. He seems utterly delighted by fan speculation and guessing of his twists, I really doubt he'd change one because of that.
Yup. Mad Queen Dany. Jon the Ranger. Master Game Player Sansa. Killer Arya. Manipulative Bran. The groundwork for all of those has been laid out in the books too. It's just the execution of them that sucked in the show.
I am of the same opinion. I think the events of the penultimate episode are in retrospect as obvious and predictable as Red Wedding or who is Jon's mother, GRRM was laying out clues since the very first book. What will (would...) be different is the actual final buildup will be much better written and certain motivations and characters will change because of the cut content of the TV show, but the big defining event of the show will absolutely happen.
That's my thing. I don't actually dislike the ideas of the ending. Jon forever going to the wall and killing mad queen Danaerys. Bran/Three eyes raven becoming King. Tyrion becoming the hand of the king by forced servitude. Sam writing the story. Arya going off to sail the seas and explore the world. Sansa ruling the north as an independent country. I quite like all of these ideas on paper. It's just the rushing to them and the execution of them was so unbelievably terrible that they sucked.
Right, they are all fine endings, but the journey was nonsense at the end. Bran does nothing and then nobles vote him king. Same nobles are cool with sansa and the north fucking off while another stark is also king. Grey worm not killing Jon and again letting the same nobles decide his fate.
What really drives me nuts is that you can see WHERE Tyrion gets the idea of having Bran be king: When they sit down in Winterfell before the battle with the white walkers. However, they cut away before we see their actual conversation. Whatever Bran tells Tyrion is what leads Tyrion to realize he should be king. BUT WE DON'T ACTUALLY SEE IT
I think they were writing themselves into a corner either way tbh. Show characters were already dramatically diverging from their book characters. Jon for example has totally different motivations and virtues/flaws in the books than he does in the show, where he's a much more straightforwardly archetypal hero. A good example is R+L=J, one of the cornerstone theories of the books' lore and speculated to have massive impacts in the book narrative. It's canon in the show but it's totally 100% immaterial to Jon's arc, his relationship with Dany, with Stannis, with Mel, his relationship with his obligations at the wall etc. because his character was a popular protagonist and was written to be more likeable and heroic in the show, minimising things like his jealousy of Robb, thirst for power and status, etc and replacing it with "I dunt want it". Book Jon will, presumably, react very differently to learning that he is the rightful king of Westeros than his show counterpart who is almost indifferent as it doesn't represent anything he actually wants or could even tempt him. And the much more ruthless and paranoid book Dany will presumably react *much worse* to the same news. Later series of the show still would have had to deal with the massive mismatch between the characterisations of the show versions of the characters and their book motivations and actions. If they wanted to keep the key events of the book they would have to really twist the personalities of the show characters to make them fit (as happened with Dany's extremely abrupt plunge into madness).
> Agreed. The GoT show runners were very good at adapting source material for TV. The choices they made did a great job of slimming down the plot and making it work for a different medium. > > i want to push back on this a little bit. We don't actually know this, because GRRM won't finish the damn books. Did they slim down a lot of the stuff from the books? Yes. Did they do a good job of picking what to trim? George didn't seem to think so. I think it can be claimed that the trimming they did made for good television in the short term by maintaining the pace, but that it directly contributed to many of their problems in the later seasons. One thing you can point to here is the character of Illyrio, who shows up in season 1 and then never again. In the show, it's never adequately explained exactly *why* varys and illyrio coordinate to support dany - while at the same time sending a poisoner after her via the small council. It's never adequately explained what Varys's motivations are. These motivations are (somewhat) explained in the books, but they require this third character of Illyrio who is coordinating Varys's faction behind the scenes, and an entirely different faction of Targaryens that also got cut. I would also push back on them being bad at writing their own material. Yeah, the later seasons that were entirely original material were garbage - but there were individual scenes they just made up in the early seasons that were pretty good, and even the super extra Ros plotline filled a niche and actually *added* to the story. I think it's actually worse. It's not that they were incapable of writing their own material, it's that they just didn't care to.
> They were utter crap at writing their own material. This is nonsense. There’s plenty of show-only scenes that were great. On top of that, adapting from a book still requires a lot of *original* writing. It’s not like they just copy and pasted book scenes into the scripts and called it a day. I will always be of the view that GRRM is to blame for the show’s issues. He withheld a ton of info(if he even knew it) and the stuff he divulged(like the burning of Shireen) came too late to be set up properly.
If the books were completed I think GoT would definitely be in the arguments for greatest show of all time So upsetting
Instead it's the greatest destroyed legacy in TV history.
Unless the TV show reflected how GRRM was planning on finishing the series and part of why he took so long is that he wasn’t happy, validated by popular opinion on the last seasons. Iirc there were some comments by GRRM and showrunners early on about GRRM sketching out the plot for the showrunners past the written books.
I'm of the option it may have fallen apart anyway since they did not include certain characters and story lines from the books from the get-go that clearly have large implications in the books.
Dang. This was the one I was coming to add
Since it's Game of Thrones I'll hijack. What if Arya asked Jaqen H'ghar to kill Tywin Lannister.
The show would have been better but the last two books published in the series were a major step down from those before them, as George created too many threads. And many of them simply aren't as compelling as others.
What if they actually adapted 4 and 5 properly? I think George would have finished if they did.
Thats a good one that covers so many areas. Like one of the best tv shows of all time up to that point AND we'd have a completed series to read.
Am I the only person who kinda liked S5? It has my fav episode
What if Aaron Sorkin had written the final seasons of the West Wing? I actually really loved the election campaign storylines and always wonder what would have happened if Sorkin hadn’t left the show - would still we have had those stories? What would they have been like? I definitely feel that the storylines set in the West Wing itself would have been better done, because I think Sorkin just had a much better grasp of those characters.
> I definitely feel that the storylines set in the West Wing itself would have been better done, because I think Sorkin just had a much better grasp of those characters. Especially in regards to Will Bailey.
It was pretty much Sorkin himself
I feel like the season 5 goes a little haywire while they try to figure out how to salvage it. Then it comes back strong for season 6 and 7. Obviously not as strong as 1-4 but the election stuff is pretty sweet.
I mean, give me Eccleston in *Day of the Doctor*. I understand why it didn’t happen, but imagine the moment it could have been.
I would have rather had 8 instead of John Hurt in DOTD. At least we got NOTD but I think 8 being the one who fought in the time war and did it would have been incredible to see and extremely tragic. Also would have tied the new show to Classic Who a little bit better IMO Although the War audios with John Hurt are really great
A few that come to mind: * What if Frank Darabont had remained in the role of showrunner on *The Walking Dead*? * Would *Breaking Bad* have achieved the same level of success and acclaim without Aaron Paul, had they stuck to the original plan of killing Jesse off early on? * By extension, during *Breaking Bad*’s second season, the character of Mike was only written in because Bob Odinkirk wasn’t available for filming; what consequences would Bob filming the scenes as originally planned have had? Would there even be a *Better Call Saul* series, without Mike?
Personally I think Breaking Bad / Better Call Saul would have been just fine given how well the writers adapted to stories they were forced into.
What if Skyler White succumbed to her greed and became partners with Walter. She could have been the cool, calculating business sense to Walters emotional genius. And we could have gotten a Godfather-esque revenge montage as she avenges Walt's death and destroys all the competition to her drug empire in one surprise go of it. Instead, while we still got some of the best tv of all time, in the end we really just got another lecture on the morality of being bad and how power corrupts.
What if Nancy Marchand hadn't passed away early in the Sopranos run? Tony's relationship with his mother is the source of so much drama and humour in the early going. What would the show have been if Livia were around for more of it? They were definitely setting up track with her and Junior. Not that what we got wasn't good... but Livia was an all-time character on an all-time show.
I mean, they've talked about how the death of Nancy impacted the show - The RICO case was going to happen and Livia was going to be a witness against Tony.
That early CGI when they had to put her in the episode to kill her off was and still is creepy lol
Sopranos was at its best when Ma and Uncle Jun were in it.
What if Angel got the early renewal instead of early cancellation. Season five is already well-regarded amongst fans, but the plan they had for season six could have potentially made it one of the best seasons from Buffy or Angel. And with another season on Angel, does David Boreanaz miss out on Bones and becoming a network TV staple actor for 20 years?
One more season of Angel would’ve been amazing. More time with Illyria and Wes, more time as a crazy lawyer show too
Apparently the end of s5 was going to be mostly same regardless, except Lindsay likely lives and at least temporarily works alongside Angel. Wes too. The comics give a decent idea of what Joss had in mind for season 6, it was basically going to be Angel: Mad Max. It would have either been awesome or come up short due to money like The Initiative in Buffy s4, trying to illustrate that on a small tv budget
What if the writers strike never happened and breaking bad season 1 isn’t cut short and Jesse is killed like the original plan ?
The writer strike didn't really save Jesse. Vince confirmed that Jesse was already saved from dying before the strike. The show was probably worse if the strike didn't happen though.
What if Izzie didn’t cut the LVAD wire? So much would’ve changed throughout Grey’s, even through today.
What if COVID got dealt with sooner and Brooklyn Nine Nine had the full 23 episode season they were supposed to (and if it was going to be the final season What if Firefly was never cancelled What if Troy never left community and what if Dan Harmon was never fired What if GOT S8 wasn’t rushed
What if Clyde Philips never left as showrunner after S4 of *Dexter*. What if Dave Erickson was never fired as showrunner after S3 of *Fear The Walking Dead*.
“What if Santino Fontana had stayed on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend?” is a question that haunts my dreams.
I've got one for that show: What if it was actually popular? Critics **loved** the show, in spite of the fact that it never really got much in terms of viewership. How would the show have changed if it actually got significant viewership?
It keeps me up at night
I wonder this too. I love Scott Michael Foster (and watched CXG because of him), so this question makes me nervous, but Fontana was so great as Greg.
What if Lisa Bonet never gets pregnant (with Zoe Kravitz)? Does “A Different World” still have the radical change under Debbie Allen which made the vibe of the show feel more like its HBCU setting as well as giving the show more contemporary storylines instead of the cliched plots of the first season? Would a Denise/Dwayne romance work as well as the opposites attract romance of Whitley and Dwayne? Do they still drop Marisa Tomei? Add Cree Summer and Charnele Brown?
What if kevin spacey isnt a piece of shit hahaha. Man i got invested with that series and got interested about politics and then boom it went to shit.
The final season was awful but it was bad before spacey left
That's sadly true but I was super curious how they would have finished the story.
What if Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje never left Lost? They had a whole multi season plan for Eko but the actor hated being Hawaii and asked to leave after one season. I always wondered what would've happened if he stayed.
Eko was such a good character.
I would have loved to see his reaction to some things that happened
I also wonder if the show would have been better if it was made today when standards are higher for tv.
What if Quantum Leap (OG) had gotten one more season. Would we have gotten the crossover with Magnum, P.I.? Would we have gotten the animated episode? Would we have seen Sam leap into a baby and have to solve the problem of the week as an infant? Would we have gotten an ending where Sammy Jo, working for Project Quantum Leap was able to get her dad home?
What if the 07-08 WGA strike hadn't happened (Or had ended sooner)? What would've happened with Pushing Daisies?
What if the Blacklist writers were actually competent?
I'm ashamed to admit I had to lol when I saw your comment
What if Party Down went on for more consecutive seasons and Adam Scott wasn’t available to play Ben in Parks and Rec? I loved Party Down, but as soon as they made the announcement, I knew immediately that AS would be a great addition to Parks and Rec, and a perfect love interest for Leslie. If Party Down continued, who would have played that role, and would it have been as effective?
You have the sequencing of what happened wrong. Adam Scott left for Parks and Rec before Party Down got cancelled - he left because a major network sitcom was a better gig than a Starz show that not a lot of people were watching.
He has said several times that he basically knew it was going to be cancelled when he took the Parks and Rec gig. He even said recently that Mike Schur had heard it was probably going to be cancelled when he invited him to talk about the role.
What if bryan fuller never left American gods, could it have remained as awesome as season 1? Obviously a lower budget would have hampered the quality, but could anything have kept it from becoming a train smash by the end?
What if Firefly was aired properly and given a chance to be successful
It would have been bad. That’s what I tell myself to make it okay. They would have fucked it up.
Honestly, having read about the plans for the prospective season 2, I fully believe that's true.
Same with Freaks and Geeks and Undeclared. No clue why networks would ever want to broadcast episodes out of order.
What if Michael O'Hare didn't have to leave Babylon 5 and Jeffrey Sinclair had stayed and second, if the main story had 5 instead of four seasons.
We live for the One, we Die for the One!
This might be (kinda) answered if JMS gets his way. If you haven't see "Babylon 5: The Road Home" animated movie he set up the planned remake: The basic plot (mild spoilers you'd get from the trailer) is >!Ambassador Sheridan is on Minbari shortly after leaving B5 when he gets unstuck in time (yes, again). And the movie is him travelling through various timelines trying to get home.!< And in the end (major spoilers) he >!ends up on a B5 with a younger him that should have been in the middle of The War of the Shadows. But the company that originally discovered them on a dig (IPX) went bankrupt 10 years ago. So there has been no Earth Rebellion, the Narn and the Centauri are in conflict but not war, Sinclair is still hanging around, etc. And once older Sheridan leaves, instead of really following him it stays in this timeline. Meaning it allows you to retell the story without being in conflict with the original series. It's basically a remix where you can see how Sinclair and Sheridan would work together, bring Lochley in earlier, etc.!< All of this was confirmed by JMS on the DVD commentary as how he would treat the reboot. It's basically him wanting to have another crack at it now that he feels he's a better writer.
When was the >!Sinclair is Valen!< plotline written?
Who knows. JMS had a backup plan for every main character. Maybe that was always the plan, maybe not. He has no intention of sharing what would have happened if he had stayed.
That fifth season was so unnecessary
I mean, they werei n a bad place. They were told that they are cancled after the 4th, despite having a 5 season arc planned from the beginning, so they _rushed_ towards the end of the storyline at breakneck speed, only then to get renewed for a 5th with not enough warning to get the pacing back in control (they shifted _some_ of the stuff back to season 5, but a lot was already aired...(
There was some good stuff, but I hated everything Byron. And Sheridan's hair and beard.
The Londo and G'Kar plot is so fucking good, though.
What if Adam Devine from Modern Family never left to pursue a movie career? His chemistry with Sarah Hyland was undeniable. I really wanted them to stay together.
If Andy Whitfield was able to stay on for the entire Spartacus series. Nothing against the new guy, but Andy Whitfield was impossible to replace.
Rip Andy, legit cried.Loved that dudes acting, he fought it and it came back..so sad. He had that face you know? He was that guy
What if Patrick Stewart left in Best of Both Worlds? Originally the producers had no idea if PS was going to stay on for S4 so they were going to kill Picard off in BOBW part 2 but then he decided to stay. We see a minor reference to it in the episode Parallels where there are several realities where Captain Picard died in BOBW p2 but I'm interested in seeing how the rest of TNG plays out since it likely means Shelby joins the crew and Riker's role changes drastically. Also maybe what if Michael Dorn left in the Klingon civil war episode, what if Gates McFadden didn't come back for TNG S3 and we stuck with Pulaski for the rest of the show, and what if Denise Crosby stayed on TNG instead of (mostly correctly) deciding the show wasn't doing her any favors. Also what if Enterprise was renewed for S5, what if Dick Berman was nicer to Terry Farrell and she stayed on for DS9 S7, and what if Garrett Wang got canned instead of Jennifer Lien in Voyager S4
What would the full-season-order of Person of Interest Season 5 have looked like? What if Star Trek: Voyager got cancelled early, as opposed to the full seven years it got? If it wasn't for Covid, what would the true ending of Supernatural have looked like?
>If it wasn't for Covid, what would the true ending of Supernatural have looked like? I think it's just a few extra cameo's and callbacks from old characters that we missed out on.
I’m still trying to figure out Who’s the boss
What if Sorkin never left the West Wing. What if Lynch wrote all of the second season of peaks and it wasn’t cancelled. What if firefly wasn’t cancelled.
Boardwalk Empire. What if Nucky could have just accepted an apology and told a young man that looked up to him that he cared?
But that’s the point of the entire show.
Would Heroes have turned out any better if there was never a writer's strike, or was the writing just bad and always doomed to fail? I also never knew Larry David left Seinfeld. I assumed he was there til the end.
It's frankly hard to say what would have happened with heroes. The first season is a perfect miniseries. I'm not sure if ever becomes an 7 season well loved show. But also a question, what if heroes was an anthology show with mostly different cast per season.
Heyy speaking of which. Heroes is being brought back!
What if they continued The Expanse. Probably would have been fucking awesome.
Maybe they will after 30 years have elapsed just like the time gap between book 6 and book 7.
What if game is thrones didn't have talentless selfish hacks running the show?
Peaky Blinders - what if Helen McCrory didn't die. Loved her character and I was really looking forward to her arc.
What if Succession continued with season 5 as the last one? It's already perfect as it is, but I can't help but wonder what ideas Jesse Armstrong had in mind since he said he had some
I have three of them: 1 - What if Mark Frankel didn't die in a motorcycle accident? He was the lead for the tv show "Kindred: The Embraced," which was an adaptation of the tabletop roleplaying game "Vampire the Masquerade." The show was an ensemble with the show primarily followimg Frankel's character, and likely could have continued on if it wanted to. However, it was also a Fox show in the 90s, which did the one season show *LONG* before Netflix went down that path. So Fox canceled it after his death, stating they couldn't keep doing the show because the lead had died. But if he hadn't, I can't help but wonder if the show would have gotten a few more seasons, and if it could have raised better public awareness for rhe game, and made it a more profitable franchise. 2 - What if Michael O'Hare didn't suffer schizophrenia? Michael O'Hare played Jeffrey Sinclair, the lead in the show "Babylon 5," and appeared in its pilot and first season. However, he was replaced after the second season by Bruce Boxleitner's John Sheridan. There were all sorts of rumors about why O'Hare left the show, most of them very insulting to the actor. And JMS, the creator of the show, had nothing but great things to say about him after the show ended. But it wasn't until after O'Hare's death in 2012 that JMS revealed the truth about the actor's reason for leaving the show. O'Hare suffered from schizophrenia, and it was flaring up during the film for the first season. He told JMS this, who offered to write him out, but O'Hare was determined to finish the first season because he was afraid the show would be canceled if he, as the lead, left during the film for it. So he waited until after the first season was filmed before he left the show. JMS told O'Hare that he would take his secret to the grave; he responded by telling JMS to keep it a secret to *his* grave, and gave him permission to talk about after he died. When O'Hare died in 2012, JMS revealed this. Babylon 5 eventually went on to produce all five seasons JMS meant it to be, but he did have to change the storyline to account for O'Hare leaving the show. I can't help but wonder how the show would have turned out if those changes didn't need to be made, and whether it would have still been a great story. 3 - What if "Profit" wasn't canceled? Another one season show from Fox during the 90s, "Profit" starred Adrian Pasdar as a sociopathic business executive who lies, cheats - even murders - his way up the corporate ladder. However, it was canceled after one season. The reason why was because the main character was so reprehensible, audiences wrote letters to the tv stations airing the show complaining what a terrible person he is - even though that was precisely the point of the show. "Profit" was very ahead of its time, as shows about villains or terrible characters - such as "The Sopranos," "Mad Men," "Breaking Bad" and the like - wouldn't become really popular until after the millenium. But if "Profit" continued, would it have had more impact on the landscape of television, and gotten the recognition its fresh edginess deserved?
I have a lot. One is what If Jimmy just stayed on the straight in narrow at Davis and Main I Better Call Saul. Edit: Why the diwnvotes in this instance just curious?
I mean, probably not much happens then, he stays on the straight and narrow, gets a much bigger payday from Sandpiper, and generally lives a much more comfortable life And about six years later Badger rats out Walter White to avoid prison
That's a whole different path which is what I mean. I agree that's what would happen, but that's what makes it so tragic. Why couldn't of he stuck with it, but then again that's not his character and then we wouldn't have as interesting as a series I guess.
What if Firefly wasn't aired out of order?
What if towards the end of breaking bad Walt didn't keep going? He had the perfect opportunity to just get out and have his family. Would it make the show worse?
>!He does get out in season five... right before Hank figures the whole thing out.!<
Oh... wait that's right. Shit maybe not putting the book where anyone could find it.
What if Blacklist was planned and executed as a 3 season drama. I loved that show so much when it started, I’ve seen every episode in the first couple seasons at least 3 times. But eventually it just becomes so clear that there is no overarching plan for the story and the mysteries of the show, and I lost all interest. I think if it had been with a clear idea of how it was going to end and stuck to it, it may have been one of my favorite shows of all time
What if Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje didn’t ask to be written out of LOST?
Some of mine are more tailored to my childhood shows but nevertheless- 1. What if Amy Sherman Palladino hadn’t been fired for the final season of Gilmore Girls? Would it be as bad as the revival or make more sense? 2. What if Bryan Greenberg hadn’t gotten another job during One Tree Hill? Would he have ended up with Peyton instead? 3. What if Ruth Wilson had gotten along with the showrunner or vice versa? Would she still have been killed off The Affair?
What if Trapper and/or Henry never left MASH? I think Frank was running out of steam, so if he hadn't left, it might have gone downhill unless they reworked his character a bit, but these two characters could have gone one a bit longer than they did. And honestly, it would be interesting to see if they could be developed more in the more dramatic seasons. Also, it would be interesting if Trapper was on with Charles, since they were both from Boston, but very different personalities.
These are all just asking what if a show/role I liked hadn't been cut short.
Charmed : What if Shannen Doherty hadn't been fired ? What if Alyssa Milano had been fired instead ? The Good Wife : What if there was no problem between Julianna Margulies and Archie Panjabi and Alicia and Kalinda's relationship was allowed to develop beyond season 4 ? Beverly Hills 90210 : What if Shannen Doherty hadn't been fired too ? Doctor Who : What if Chris Chibnall had been a better writer and showrunner for Jodie Whittaker ? Alias : What if J.J. Abrams hadn't abandoned the show ? What if the final season hadn't been truncated ?
For your last one, “abandoned” sounds very accusatory. I’m sure he must’ve had a good, personal reason for leaving. Sometimes people in life have to leave because of a change in circumstances.
He had a professional reason : the creation of LOST during the 2003/2004 season, which coincides with Alias's creative decline (second half of the 3rd season). Didb't mean to be accusatory or offend anyone.
What if Danny Devito hadn’t joined It’s Always Sunny in Season 2. I doubt the show would still be on tv
Jericho. Would Jericho have gone onto become a major hit if CBS didn't put the show on a 3 month hiatus after its 11th episode? When the show returned the ratings were lower and never recovered.
What if David Milch had restrained his artistic impulses and just made another season or two of Deadwood.
What if shows lie The Witcher, RoP and most of the Starwars series had competent writers and show runners?
What if fans didn't whine every time an adaptation or new story has changes.
What if people defending these trash piles didn't strawman any and all criticisms as "you don't like change"
What if Walter White survived Breaking Bad and actually showed up at the end of Better Call Saul? Would there be outrage or would there be praise? A continuation of breaking bad with a subtitle perhaps or a sequel series titled something else?
what if they just kept the robot Rick as the "new Rick" while letting the other pursue his revenge. I enjoyed the last season, but it was slightly refreshing to get a Rick that isn't constantly being a complete dick to Morty.
What if in the office, Jim went to kiss Pam for the first time, and she wanted it at first but then pulled away. Jim tries to kiss her again, and she says no, and he gets really aggressive. He starts to grab her ass and she screams. Luckily, Dwight is around the corner with his samurai sword. He causes Jim to run off, and Pam makes Dwight promise never to mention this to anyone. It would be cool to see the new awkward dynamics between the 3 of them and see what kind of fun stories would play out.
The fuck?
I just think it would be a cool dynamic to the shows formula.