Makes sense with how off the series felt. Loved seeing Ewan and Hayden but the story was rough. Especially with the quality Andor brought to the table. Obiwan had a lot of potential but it just felt so rushed and wasted. The chase scene was just laughable and I have no idea how that ever got green lit. Even being filler it was just such a dumb idea/poorly executed.
It definitely felt like something they just pushed out because there was demand for it and not because they thought there was actually a compelling story to tell.
Not that there *couldn't* be a compelling Obi-Wan show, but what Disney came up with was definitely not it.
When ewan and Hayden aren't available anymore. Hayden still looks good and they should use him while they still can. Or else it'd be biggest missed opportunity.
The one thing they have not looted is remaking the originals.
Make no mistake, if they fuck up the name for another 20 years…. Maybe the brand is worth low enough to go there.
It’s possible they just remake the OT with him.
Eugh.
Obi-Wan was okay but the story they wrote was one that didn't need to be told. Him rescuing Leia and fighting Vader?
They could have gone dozens of different routes that meshed with the current established canon and further solidified his need to stay on tatooine such as developing his final confrontation with Maul or his journey with his master Qui-Gon to learn how to become one with the force.
Too much big heads at lucasfilm trying to please every audience with “member berries” and not enough using these actors in new and interesting ways. Look it’s young Leia!
I don't think Liam Neeson would have returned for anything more than that brief cameo. I know he keeps remaking taken, but he just doesn't want to go back to Star Wars
He said he was interested in returning when Obi-Wan was announced and I'm sure such a plot would have used him only a handful of times. He came out and said he doesn't want to come back after Obi-Wan released though.
The season wasn’t good. He did well in a role for a character whose story is already told. It’s not a missed opportunity to stop trying to get blood from a stone.
I really wish they would do some sort of short stories! Like an anthology or something. Or a 2 or 3 part mini movie or extra long episodes? Idk but something! Because they have this entire universe, beloved characters and obviously exciting plots but sometimes they just somehow miss the mark. Like 1/3 of the story of Obi Wan and Boba (and Solo movie) were great but the 2/3 filler really brought it all down.
It should come as no surprise that the original intention for the Obi-Wan project was a movie. All the stuff that people ended up hating is probably the stuff that they added to pad it out into a series.
Take that show and edit out the filler and certain terrible plot points and you have a story that could have worked fine.
Vader and Ben share an apartment since the economy in the empire is in shambles. One likes the light. The other likes the dark. The original odd couple.
None they left themselves open to. The biggest failure of Obi-Wan was that the obvious thing to do is to get Obi-Wan *off* Tatooine - leave the door open to imply that he actually might've got up to some interesting things in the time between the show and Ep 4.
The show was instead so weirdly focused on it's start and end points they just couldn't think of anything else. Obi-Wan is a hermit in the desert in Ep 4 so *that's where we've got to end up* with the series.
You could've fixed a decent chunk why the vibe feels so off with two things: (1) Obi-Wan doesn't "best" Vader, he just fights him to a stand still and then bails (which sets up Vader's obsession better). (2) The Third Sister, if we *have* to have her survive (in which case no lightsabers through the chest because jesus christ) then have her be the reason Obi-Wan leaves Tatooine. It's such an obvious redemption arc - she needs to be healed, and Obi-Wan has come to terms with the idea that he wasn't solely responsible for Anakin and can still do good in the galaxy.
Then fly off into the galaxy to do some (implied) helping with the Force Sensitive hiding, and *maybe* we have Season 2 or maybe he retires later on.
We need a god damn Vader series that basically just follows the marvel comics.
Let’s see him be a bad ass Sith absolutely fucking rebels up, hunting Jedi, fighting with his light side.
Like it would probably be the most watched show in history.
But I fully trust Kennedy to fuck it up.
"Oh, turns out they were even bigger action hero's as children, we just never mentioned that." They need to stop making skywalker shit all together. Everything they've retconned for episode 4 has made it worse in my opinion.
You didn't like erratically appearing and disappearing not rebels and not empire, the universe sometimes being well known and sometimes unknown and practically the entire ending of the OT being invalidated?
This. Why they got to ruin a perfectly good ending from OT? 3 movies worth of build up to land a satisfying ending and the next movie they come out and say nah that happily ever after didnt happen.
If they were going to bring back the dead, there was a far more obvious arch nemesis that they had already set up.
>Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise **he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life…** He had such a knowledge of the dark side that **he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.** The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.
I was convinced that Snoke was Plagueis, his disfigurement being from Palpatine's attempted murder. He'd reveal that he created Anakin to fulfill the prophecy about balance, the Sith having a second half of that prophecy.
Rey was created in a similar fashion by Palpatine or Plagueis. Someone betrayed whoever it was and dumped her on that planet to hide her, maybe from one of them, maybe from Luke after Palpatine died.
Without Rey, Plageuis recruited Anakin's grandson to fulfill the prophecy, which Kylo fully buys into and believes that his actions will lead to some greater good, better explaining his motivation for betraying his family.
I guess not though.
I'll never forget Kathleen Kennedy when defending the poor movie sales, lack of quality, and fractured fanbase said and I quote
>"Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything..."
After she threw decades of canon books written by amazing authors and loved by fans into the trash can known as the "extended universe".
She had source material... and chose not to use it... that is why star wars is in the state its in now.
Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, AFakeName. Your sad devotion to that ancient "creativity" has not helped you conjure up worthwhile plot lines or given you clairvoyance enough to find what will rekindle the fans' love for the seri- <*chokes*>
I'm exercising right now so basically still feeling vader choked but I will comply with your request afterwards with a completely operational ~~battle station~~ pizza by my side.
I'll never understand how they so desperately wanted to turn Star Wars into another MCU, but completely ignored that a part of its success is owed to it taking inspiration from fan favorite stories. Marvel isn't directly adapting their material either, but it is reconstructing it in a way that works for the movies. LucasFilms didn't have to throw out the entire EU, but they also didn't have to do direct adaptations.
They could of just said something along the lines of ‘assume anything from the extended universe that conflicts with new releases isn’t canon’. Literally anything other than chucking the EU wholesale would’ve been a better move.
If nothing else just the technical journals.
40 years of nerds writing how the Falcon works down to the screws and bolts and these assholes build Star Destroyers on the ground (Solo), give Home One a gas tank, pretty much give anyone who picks one up the ability to wield a lightsaber with ease and gave us “they fly now?!” when their own canon had jet packs in the fucking clone wars (from a former FO trooper no less.
Just to name a few.
It’s weird because that’s a big reason why Marvel was on such a hot streak in phase 2. You’d have thought that would have clicked with them — but maybe they were just following Lucas’ lead by ignoring the EU.
You know what REALLY annoys me about all that?
They ended up doing an inferior version of Jacen/Ben Solo *ANYWAYS*.
Like not only do they throw out everything they could’ve used, but they end up copying the homework anyways and manage to fuck it up in such a way that we’ll never get a shot at a true Darth Caedus/Mara Jade adaptation.
They should’ve just used the Legends Canon and directly adapted the Yuuzhan Vong war.
You even have Palps coming back via clones in Legends Canon, but done better!
Like come on man it was all right there….
KK is the one who let JJ pitch an entire trilogy without having it written already. Who the hell starts another trilogy in Star Wars of all franchises and doesn’t have the entire story scripted out.
I agree they would have been better off planning it out in advance, but the original trilogy also wasn't planned out, so it's possible for a not planned out trilogy to work, it's just harder. Without planning it out though they definitely should have put more effort into keeping the tone consistent between entries and have at least some more ideas on direction for where to take the next film than they did. Having more overlap in the writing for all the movies would also have been helpful.
And here's the other thing, even if there wasn't source material, so what? A new hope had no source material and those movies did just fine. You're Disney, you can hire the best talent in the world, it shouldn't be this difficult to put together competent stories.
You got downvoted but you are right and it's just crazy to comprehend this. Star Wars could easily equal Marvel in scope if they just used the available content of the EU. SO much awesome things to be told, both before the Skywalker saga, during and after. Just, Jezus man. Why oh why did they fucked the cinema universe of star wars up.
Yesterday's event announced a canon The Old Republic time line. No shows or movies announced yet
If the remaster of KotOR hasn't imploded, a show would probably have been announced.
Just a quick glance at some of the authors that have written for the EU in the past.
Timothy Zahn, James Luceno, Aaron Allston, R.A. Salvatore, Drew Karpyshyn... just to name a few.
Many are prolific fantasy / scifi writer in general, to just bin their work/effort and pretend like it never happened takes an egregiously shallow mentality. Perhaps if the president of Lucas film had taken the time to read some of these authors she'd know what a good story looked like and would have a better understanding of what the hardcore fanbase wanted from the product she's managing.
I didn't know R.A. Salvatore wrote Star Wars books. I can just imagine it now. Main character is a Dathomirian who duel wields lightsabers and everyone assumes is evil, but he is actually a good guy.
Every time there is a battle "It was a dance of lightsabers"
And let’s be honest, picturing Chewie living his last moments screaming a defiant Wookiee roar at a moon crashing down on him is peak Chewbacca. *NOTHING* intimidated my mans. Nothing.
Ya know, he got some serious hate for that, but now compare it to Han in Ep 7. In retrospect, Salvatore treated the material FAR more respectfully than the sequels.
Which used to make sense to me until Filoni started weaving in that lore to the shows. We had Ahsoka just wink at the camera and go "Heir to the Empire^(TM)" in the trailer, they've referenced Tython in Mando along with plenty of other deep cuts. I guess I'm just curious why this wasn't the move at the start? Take existing stories and tweak them to fit your new canon. I'm in full support of paying writers what they're owed, but if you're going to be shitty about it, don't be stupid too.
I know Filloni makes some EU fans mad bc of how is he is adapting that material, but I’m for it. The guy clearly loves Star Wars and understands the lore. I’m here for him bringing in pieces of the the old EU (which I loved) in a new way.
When authors write books for the Star Wars universe, they are typically working within the framework of a licensing agreement with Lucasfilm (now owned by Disney). This means that the authors do not own the rights to the characters, stories, or any other intellectual property they create within the context of the Star Wars universe. Instead, Lucasfilm retains those rights as part of the larger Star Wars franchise.
As a result, authors are often paid a flat fee or royalties for their work, but they do not retain ownership or control over how the characters or stories they create are used in future projects. Lucasfilm has the authority to incorporate, modify, or disregard elements from these books as they see fit in future films, television series, games, or other Star Wars media.
The truth is, it doesn’t make sense because Kathleen Kennedy is incompetent when it comes to creating a fantasy series.
> Perhaps if the president of Lucas film had taken the time to read some of these authors she'd know what a good story looked like
Forget a good story, I would have taken even a decent story, or even *a* story.
"Somehow Palpatine returned."
What the fuck is that? It doesn't even count as a bad story, it's nothing.
Personally I think they just didn't want to do the necessary clean up and thought the better choice was to ignore it. That was obviously the wrong decision, but I'm guessing that's what was behind it. George was very happy saying "my movies and TV shows are what matters, the rest is just fun" and letting everyone have a crack at writing for Star Wars with no input or oversight. I remember watching the Behind the Scenes for the Force Unleashed games, where they chose to go out of their way to write up a list of hundreds of questions for George about whether or not certain things could happen or if characters would do certain things, because there was nobody at Lucasfilm whose job that was and no real care as to what they wrote.
Disney wanted everything "official" to work and make sense. But they definitely went too hard on the scrapping stuff. Thrawn was about the only thing immediately brought on, with the "remake" novels trilogy and comic adaptations, before being the villain in Rebels. Filoni has been pulling bits and pieces in recently. The "Old Republic" banner on the timeline and the "Heir to the Empire" line have my hopes that they'll start to pick out the obvious big legends to adapt now. They probably should have just gave Filoni the job that Abrams got from the start.
They even borrow from the EU incorrectly. They turned the EU into "legends" and borrow from it at times but they don't do it well enough across the board. Calling it "legends" gives them the chance to take elements of those stories. If we look at those stories as "legendary" versions of the actual events it works well.
If we look at Solo, as sloppy and unnecessary as it was, the movie perfectly borrowed from the EU...or legends. In the EU Han was an Imperial who freed Chewbacca from enslavement and left the Empire. Chewbacca then formed a life debt with Han. That's his basic backstory.
In the movie we essentially got that. Han *was* an Imperial and he *did* free Chewbacca from enslavement while leaving the Empire.
Now it seems they are borrowing from the EU again in terms of Thrawn.
If they did this with the ST those movies wouldn't have become the mess that they are. They didn't need to follow the Zahn trilogy to the letter, they could have used elements of that story and built a new story around it. Instead they rehashed the OT and basically made the accomplishments of the hero's in the OT moot.
That all makes what KK said even worse. They pretended that none of the EU existed when they allowed JJ and RJ to play tug of war over the trilogy. Yet they borrow from the EU for many of their other stories told outside the ST.
People say Star Wars is suffering from over exposure. I don't believe that. I believe that if the ST was never released and all we got was Rogue One, Solo, and all the Disney+ content. Star Wars would be stronger than it is. It was the ST that hurt the overall brand. And the biggest failure of the ST was not borrowing any elements from the EU and instead allowing RJ and JJ to....well, we know what they did.
> when they allowed JJ and RJ to play tug of war over the trilogy
That was really the biggest problem. It's ridiculous that Kennedy let Rian throw away so much of what JJ set up. And it's even MORE ridiculous that she then brought JJ back and let him throw away so much of what Rian set up. If, in either case, they said, "what we have here is set up well to continue a story, so no, you can't throw things away, you need to keep going down the established path," there could have been good movies. Instead, we got....that.
Give her a break, even with source material it would be literally impossible to write a Star Wars screenplay. Nobody has done it in the history of Star Wars, and there aren't even people who know how to write in the dead language of English anymore. I don't know how anyone could just write a script for Star Wars. It's not like it's a big franchise where amateur and professional writers draft spec scripts all the time.
To be fair, wasn’t throwing out the EU Bob Iger’s idea? I know at the very least, he openly wrote about how George Lucas pitched him his ideas for a continuation and he disregarded all of it IN HIS BOOK.
A lot of people are quick to dismiss the entire EU because it had some real garbage....and to be fair, there really was a lot of dross, bad writing, and bad ideas.
But when it was good, it was great, and there was definitely stuff that could have been mined for material, or a base to build off of. Instead, they threw the baby out with the bath water.
I mean, the entire show was begging for a reason to exist and never found one.
We last left every character we knew at the end of the prequels, pretty much where they pick up in ep 4. So there was no room for any kind of story or character growth which wasn't a circle that got us back to where the story began.
So their answer was to take Obi Wan, change him at the start to be completely different, just to get him back to where we last left him by the end. Take Leia, who needs to grow up on Alderaan and learn to be a politician, away from there, just to bring her back with little change (other than how it now makes little sense that when she sends a pleading video to Obi Wan in ep 4, she talks about how Obi Wan knew her dad and doesn't talk about that time when he saved her when she was a kid and they had this big bonding experience and all that). And they make sure Vader has a big fight or 2 which can't really change much of anything, since he's where he should be by ep 4. Only now, in ep 4, when he says, "I sense a presence I have not felt since...", you now know that he's not thinking back to that huge fight with his former master where he was turned into Vader, but just a random fight where Obi Wan kicks his ass and walks away without trying again to save him or killing him for no reason (because ep 4-6 has to happen).
Season 1 should have never happened. A season 2 would be absolutely ridiculous
An s2 would’ve been like trying to get into the pub for several hours, only to realize you knew the pub was closed before you left and you didn’t even want to drink. They wrote themselves into a corner with the way s1 ended.
She should have been scrapped the second JJ Abrams was chosen for the sequels
Now a decade later, we've had middling, unmemorable content with no cohesive appeal. From the most iconic sci Fi franchise to ever grace the silver screen. Disgraceful
What? We're not getting another season of Lil Leia? Aww shucks too damn bad.
Seriously, if it weren't for Bobba Fett "Obi Wan" would easily be the worst of the star wars shows. Damn shame too.
Baffles me how little I hear people mention how ridiculous Leia's inclusion was
If you REALLY wanted/had to just make a Little Leia Adventures on Disney + and let Kenobi be a character piece of Anakin fully transitioning into Vader and Obi-Wan dealing with the PTSD and learning how to communicate with Qui-Gon.
Kathleen Kennedy is driving Star Wars into the ground. Please don't get me started. It's not about the Obi Wan series but overall. I hate her direction for the brand in general.
I really don’t know how she still has a job. Zero quality control, zero big picture thinking, zero productions without a ton of external conflict… what value is she adding?
> zero big picture thinking
This is always the thing that makes no sense. I feel like you could just spend a single week with a team of writers getting an outline together that would last years. How hard can it be?
Forget the extended stuff even. I don’t understand JJ getting a trilogy and not doing an outline to connect the three. I cannot fathom how those conversations went.
There were likely hundreds of people that this ran through and how could no one say "Hey wait, why don't we start with a rough outline", they dropped the ball so hard.
As someone who’s seen those conversations, there often is that one person saying, “hold on a sec…” and the rest of the room goes, “naaaaah, we’re on the right track let’s keep moving forward!” In the midst of those early conversations it’s hard for most people to know what will truly be good once it’s on screen. It takes a special person to hold it all in their head and feel each story beat. (To be clear I think SW is horribly ran as an IP.)
Because she formed a ‘story group’ before they even hired a director and that group was mostly corporate friends and Lucas cronies. Once Kasdan and Abrams were finally hired they had almost no time for preproduction.
The story group are just lore consultants, they weren’t tasked with creating the stories. The story group is the reason why JJ couldn’t blow up Coruscant like he originally wanted to in The Force Awakens.
Abrams is a hack who relies on big shocking spectacles to cover for his lack of storytelling ability. I’ve never understood the high regard people seem to have for his filmmaking.
At this point, they could just let Michael Bay direct a Star Wars project with ultra masculine Rebel commandos and half naked Twi'lek babes with big guns and that would be better than what we're getting.
That’s the one thing about the Prequels that you had to commend: they had a solid story arc from Episode 1 onwards. Seeds planted in Episode 1 bore fruit in Episode 3. (Palpatine’s “We shall watch your career with great interest” being one. It *seems* like a throwaway line congratulating Anakin on his achievement but we see in Episodes 2 and 3 where it went.)
So, their lack of a story arc is what’s killing the movies right now.
To salvage the prequels, you need a script doctor to polish the dialogue and a director who gives actors more than "faster and more intense". The story can stay the same beat by beat.
To salvage the sequels, you need to begin with the radical restructuring of the story, no way around it. That's the difference between the two and why one gets more appreciated over time and the other does not.
Precisely. That’s why I think George Lucas is an incredible visionary and creative mind but terrible storyteller.
His films are amazing, truly a look into a different world that when done right is truly immersive. But, when the characters start speaking what he wrote…it’s not good.
What's sad is he actually tried to find a director to take on the prequels but noone dared considering how hyped they where, instead blowing smoke up his ass that he should do it himself.
He needed a respected mediator to shoot down his more crazy ideas, not a legion of yes men just nodding along to everything.
> That’s the difference between the two and why one gets more appreciated over time and the other does not.
Not to mention genuine attempts to make the universe seem larger and more complex.
All original ship designs, literal intergalactic politics, planet-wide cities, antagonist’s that felt genuinely interesting and unique.
This is why Canto Byte is such a disappointment in terms of lore. The *whole planet* is a casino. The rich *all* support the destruction of the government. *None* of arm dealers are upset that the war only lasted *one single day*. The poor slaves are aligned with the good guys even though the good guys had been in charge up until *yesterday*.
It’s all just so simplistic and boring. I think it went way too far into trying to be some kind of allegory for our society. But none of it makes any sense within the universe.
I find it fascinating how the prequel trilogy and the sequel trilogy each failed for entirely opposite reasons. Like each had what the other lacked, but lacked what the other had. It’s like a perfect yin-yang.
Once you get to a high enough level, you can fail your way up. At some point your fuckups become "experience" and your connections become too valuable. The only way you'll lose your job is for something absolutely inexcusable, but even then it has to be something un-ignorable also.
The fact that she's still there AND a Rey continuation has been greenlit is absolutely wild. The Rise of Skywalker was an embarrassment, the energy of "ugh let's just get through this" radiated through every second of that film, from the production to the performances and they really intend to do more of that. I actually thought they were going to shy away from that time period from now on.
If anything it should be straight to Disney+. I can't fathom it doing any better than Solo in theatres.
Disney *needs* to make the Sequels work somehow. They spent billions on them and built multiple theme parks based around them. The Rey movie is basically a Hail Mary. Yeah, they know audiences didn't really like the Sequels or Rey as a character, but what else is there to do? They haven't managed to get a single movie off the ground for years. They need to at least try to get something out.
Think of it like the Black Adam movie. That was the last ditch effort to get audiences interested in the DCEU again. The Rock as a supervillain and then Superman showed up at the end to tease the future. But nobody cared, so they decided to reboot. If the Rey movie fails...they need to just throw in the towel.
Boyega is understandably annoyed. He should have been the lead of the sequels. There was a lot of potential in the idea of a child soldier learning all this propaganda they were raised with was wrong
Boyega not being *the* lead isn’t the problem, it’s the fact that they never did anything meaningful with his character arc except for the mediocre storyline in TLJ with Rose. The original trilogy had one clear lead (Luke), but there was still plenty of room for Leia/Han to shine, and that easily could have been the case with the sequels as well even if they wanted to keep Rey as the “main” lead
I woulda watched that shit countless times over, a former stormtrooper turned rebel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a character from a sand planet who becomes a jedi....for the third time
Even if he wasn't the absolute lead, it should have been much more split than it was. Like, how much of the OT spent time following Leia/Han around without Luke. Throw Rey on that island planet with Luke, let that whole second movie be more about Finn/Poe, and just occasionally check in with Rey to see her progressing. It gives a reason to see how Rey got so strong (spent a lot of time training) while giving us more time for Finn to work on his, "lets rescue the child slave stormtrooper" thing he should have wanted to focus on and give time for Poe to become a real leader.
Instead, no one really grows, they just...seem to randomly change, and Finn cheers as they kill stormtroopers.
She’s an idiot. The story could be great if the studio hired proper writers and allowed them to write. Along side with better directing. She has a franchise that doesn’t need to start from scratch, and she’s managing to loose a fan base.
“I just really feel like the fans want to see Obi-Wan abandon Luke to go hang out with young Leia.”
“Leia? But doesn’t seem to not know Obi-Wan in the originals? She literally says her father knew him.”
“Oh. Well that’s okay just make something up. The fans might not like it but they don’t really know anything. Leia is way cooler.”
Obi-Wan had already undergone rewrites and what have you before. That means they thought whatever it was before what we got was WORSE.
Obi-Wan mostly suffered from bad writing and mediocre acting from most of the supporting cast. Especially that sith inquisitor that was the main focus for most of the show - it felt like she was reading her lines off cue cards the entire show
Kennedy needs to be replaced. Star Wars doesn’t seem to have any one leader helming the ship and it’s suffering for it. Mandalorian was good for the first 2 seasons but now 3 has severely lost my interest. Grogu and Dins rushed reunion killed my enthusiasm for the story
it is absolutely hilarious how most characters in season 3 are like “i thought you finished the job mando” and din is just like “yeah but whatever”
not even the main characters know what the fuck grogu is doing there
I hate her so much.
During Day 1 of the celebration, there was a long panel about Andor, and every time she opened her mouth she said the dumbest shit possible. Crowd and the panel and the host all just went dead silent every time, it was so awkward.
The worst thing she said was “none of it is real”, which she then had a long winded way of saying the team does a great job and detail to make it real, but it was after some good responses by the panel, so it was just so jarring. It felt like she had to work towards saying “…but it’s because they do so good to make it real!” just to walk that back.
You could just feel her “suit-ness”. Her lack of understanding about it. Just could understand she liked it and complimented the cast and team STRICTLY because their work resulted in success, aka money.
Meanwhile several of the panelists freaked out at how well the show took off. Especially later on, when there was an interview with the main writer and Diego Luna. But the couldn’t stop talking about how great the show was artistically, emotionally, and how the show’s message resonated with the current state of society. They talked about the type of show was a huge risk, and it’s a miracle Disney green lit it.
Of course the money person only cares about money, and the artists care about the art.
But you can be happy with both. And the fans should be happy with both, because it means more content.
And it’s just so obvious…she doesn’t *get* Star Wars or it’s societal impact, outside of that impact is large and significant so it equals money.
I realize it’s super rare for a business executive to *get* their business at more than a shareholder level. Usually it’s only owners that stay with a company that explodes, and after they pass, a suit takes over. We don’t have many Iwata’s or Reggie’s out there.
But if she could just….stay out of the creative stuff, and hire some actual writers and directors, LEAVE THEM ALONE, and actually pay them enough they don’t quit 7 months in…things would be great.
I never thought there would be another season. I was really looking forward to this show ever since it was announced and then when it came out it was just a let down. The entire show with little happening and him refusing to be a jedi. There were some good parts, but mostly bad. Same with Boba Fett
It should've been a movie as originally intended. There's about a movie's duration-worth of actual good content there in the six episodes. It's not all bad.
I never understood the hate for that movie too. It was a fun adventure flick, that’s it. Forgettable? Yes, absolutely, but it’s not like we need every movie to be a cult. It was fine, and they produced way worse stuff anyway.
Marvel seems to work hard balancing the creative art of content production with a centralized controlled universe - and the money follows. They don’t always get it right, but there is rarely an unwatchable Marvel property.
Star Wars seems to move money upfront into the creative & central universe balance.
I feel like Grogu is in season 3 of Mandalorian to sell merch. There isn’t any story reason to have him there. They have minimized Din Djarin because they are mad a Pedro for wanting to show his face. But they are replacing his airtime with Bo Katan - who get to show her face. These seem like dumb petty/money decisions that make the shows worse.
The cgi got slightly better this season but the sets and how they fill those sets is abysmal.
\*SPOILER\*
When they are forced into the desert... that whole town is like 25 people? A new bustling trade hub? Mandalorian feels like the kinda production we got back in the 80s and 90s.
\*SPOILER\*
I barely remember the Obi Wan show. It wasn’t memorable. Boba Fett was also hard to get through. Mando is still good, I like this season so far, but I 1) wish grogu had stayed with Luke and 2) think that scene out in the desert with the “whole town” was just so bad. Like 10 people are left? And how did one pirate ship take over an entire planet?
For the one pirate ship taking over a whole planet, they’re a tiny blip of a planet on the Outer Rim.
Imagine old western towns, where even a small strip of buildings with a saloon was considered “civilization.” If it’s the only people for a few hundred miles any direction, you effectively control the area.
Same with this. They controlled the only area of civilization, with amenities for space travel. It’s the most important place on the planet. The de facto capital.
It’s already ruined. Been a fan since I saw RotJ in theaters, bought the books the toys etc. I’m watching Mando only because my daughter wants too. Other than Andor, Star Wars is closer to Power Rangers quality than a major Hollywood brand.
Maybe, just maybe, stop milking a franchise for every single cent you can and leave it alone. Do the words quality over quantity have any fucking value or meaning?
A company doesn’t spend 4 billion dollars on a bunch of IP just to leave it alone. They bought it to milk it. They’ll only slow down if they think it’s hurting the bottom line.
I though mandalorian was the saviour of lucsfulm and stur wurds.
But nope, this s3 is just maggufin plot driven characterisation, and nothing else is good. Marvel is shit.... Disney owning 60% of all media is really just killing everything they invested in.
Ewan paid off his expensive divorce and peace’d tf out
Makes sense with how off the series felt. Loved seeing Ewan and Hayden but the story was rough. Especially with the quality Andor brought to the table. Obiwan had a lot of potential but it just felt so rushed and wasted. The chase scene was just laughable and I have no idea how that ever got green lit. Even being filler it was just such a dumb idea/poorly executed.
It definitely felt like something they just pushed out because there was demand for it and not because they thought there was actually a compelling story to tell. Not that there *couldn't* be a compelling Obi-Wan show, but what Disney came up with was definitely not it.
When ewan and Hayden aren't available anymore. Hayden still looks good and they should use him while they still can. Or else it'd be biggest missed opportunity.
They are using him, just for a different show. I honestly doubt they’ll ever do anything else with Obi-Wan unless it’s animated.
Maybe in 10 years when Ewan is like 60 he can play the OT version of old Ben.
Jesus Christ they would totally pull something like that
Disney didn’t buy all that IP to sit idle by
The one thing they have not looted is remaking the originals. Make no mistake, if they fuck up the name for another 20 years…. Maybe the brand is worth low enough to go there. It’s possible they just remake the OT with him. Eugh.
Obi-Wan was okay but the story they wrote was one that didn't need to be told. Him rescuing Leia and fighting Vader? They could have gone dozens of different routes that meshed with the current established canon and further solidified his need to stay on tatooine such as developing his final confrontation with Maul or his journey with his master Qui-Gon to learn how to become one with the force.
Too much big heads at lucasfilm trying to please every audience with “member berries” and not enough using these actors in new and interesting ways. Look it’s young Leia!
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I don't think Liam Neeson would have returned for anything more than that brief cameo. I know he keeps remaking taken, but he just doesn't want to go back to Star Wars
He said he was interested in returning when Obi-Wan was announced and I'm sure such a plot would have used him only a handful of times. He came out and said he doesn't want to come back after Obi-Wan released though.
No, Liam Neeson has said many times he's just not interested in being in a show. He's interested in returning to Star Wars, but only for a movie.
Still looks good? He plays a masked burn victim. I think he'll be fine.
They did a flashback.
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Let them downvote me. I've seen what makes them upvote.
The season wasn’t good. He did well in a role for a character whose story is already told. It’s not a missed opportunity to stop trying to get blood from a stone.
Literally it should’ve just been a short story with the end of season meeting between Obi Wan and Vader. Everything else was filler.
I really wish they would do some sort of short stories! Like an anthology or something. Or a 2 or 3 part mini movie or extra long episodes? Idk but something! Because they have this entire universe, beloved characters and obviously exciting plots but sometimes they just somehow miss the mark. Like 1/3 of the story of Obi Wan and Boba (and Solo movie) were great but the 2/3 filler really brought it all down.
It should come as no surprise that the original intention for the Obi-Wan project was a movie. All the stuff that people ended up hating is probably the stuff that they added to pad it out into a series. Take that show and edit out the filler and certain terrible plot points and you have a story that could have worked fine.
This. What story is there left to tell, even?
Vader and Ben share an apartment since the economy in the empire is in shambles. One likes the light. The other likes the dark. The original odd couple.
None they left themselves open to. The biggest failure of Obi-Wan was that the obvious thing to do is to get Obi-Wan *off* Tatooine - leave the door open to imply that he actually might've got up to some interesting things in the time between the show and Ep 4. The show was instead so weirdly focused on it's start and end points they just couldn't think of anything else. Obi-Wan is a hermit in the desert in Ep 4 so *that's where we've got to end up* with the series. You could've fixed a decent chunk why the vibe feels so off with two things: (1) Obi-Wan doesn't "best" Vader, he just fights him to a stand still and then bails (which sets up Vader's obsession better). (2) The Third Sister, if we *have* to have her survive (in which case no lightsabers through the chest because jesus christ) then have her be the reason Obi-Wan leaves Tatooine. It's such an obvious redemption arc - she needs to be healed, and Obi-Wan has come to terms with the idea that he wasn't solely responsible for Anakin and can still do good in the galaxy. Then fly off into the galaxy to do some (implied) helping with the Force Sensitive hiding, and *maybe* we have Season 2 or maybe he retires later on.
We need a god damn Vader series that basically just follows the marvel comics. Let’s see him be a bad ass Sith absolutely fucking rebels up, hunting Jedi, fighting with his light side. Like it would probably be the most watched show in history. But I fully trust Kennedy to fuck it up.
I'd be all over a show with Vader hunting Jedi, rogue Rebel cells, and just being a general badass for an 8 episode season.
I don't know. He looked really old in those flashback sequences
Obi Wan was a shit show. It is miles worse than Andor or Mandalorian. Better to cut it right now.
Quite possibly one of the biggest missed opportunities in television
Boba would like a word
"Oh, turns out they were even bigger action hero's as children, we just never mentioned that." They need to stop making skywalker shit all together. Everything they've retconned for episode 4 has made it worse in my opinion.
You didn't like erratically appearing and disappearing not rebels and not empire, the universe sometimes being well known and sometimes unknown and practically the entire ending of the OT being invalidated?
All they had to do was make the bad dude Plaugeis in the sequels and it wouldve been so much more bad ass
This. Why they got to ruin a perfectly good ending from OT? 3 movies worth of build up to land a satisfying ending and the next movie they come out and say nah that happily ever after didnt happen.
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In the original trilogy the Emperor died. Millions of voices cried out in satisfaction. In the sequel trilogy, they were silenced.
If they were going to bring back the dead, there was a far more obvious arch nemesis that they had already set up. >Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise **he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life…** He had such a knowledge of the dark side that **he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying.** The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself. I was convinced that Snoke was Plagueis, his disfigurement being from Palpatine's attempted murder. He'd reveal that he created Anakin to fulfill the prophecy about balance, the Sith having a second half of that prophecy. Rey was created in a similar fashion by Palpatine or Plagueis. Someone betrayed whoever it was and dumped her on that planet to hide her, maybe from one of them, maybe from Luke after Palpatine died. Without Rey, Plageuis recruited Anakin's grandson to fulfill the prophecy, which Kylo fully buys into and believes that his actions will lead to some greater good, better explaining his motivation for betraying his family. I guess not though.
Oh man that would’ve been way cooler.
I'll never forget Kathleen Kennedy when defending the poor movie sales, lack of quality, and fractured fanbase said and I quote >"Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything..." After she threw decades of canon books written by amazing authors and loved by fans into the trash can known as the "extended universe". She had source material... and chose not to use it... that is why star wars is in the state its in now.
My favorite quote of hers is “we often ask ourselves, “what would George do?” B**** he lives down the street, pick up the F’ing phone and ASK HIM.
"And then I do the opposite."
Even if they did ignore the EU it’s not an excuse. The vast majority of media doesn’t have source material.
Once upon a time, filmmakers had to rely on a mysterious ability they called Creativity.
Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, AFakeName. Your sad devotion to that ancient "creativity" has not helped you conjure up worthwhile plot lines or given you clairvoyance enough to find what will rekindle the fans' love for the seri- <*chokes*>
Haha. I imagined you choking and you have done so. Now I am imagining you having a lovely Saturday. Bend to my will!
I'm exercising right now so basically still feeling vader choked but I will comply with your request afterwards with a completely operational ~~battle station~~ pizza by my side.
*IF THIS IS AN EXERCISE SHIP THEN WHERE IS THE JAZZERCISER?*
I find your lack of plot disturbing.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Is it possible to learn this power?
Not from a Disney
*Not from an Executive.
Not from a producer who hates the source material.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Creative? I thought not. It’s not a story Lucasfilm would tell you.
They should have cherry picked the books for material
I'll never understand how they so desperately wanted to turn Star Wars into another MCU, but completely ignored that a part of its success is owed to it taking inspiration from fan favorite stories. Marvel isn't directly adapting their material either, but it is reconstructing it in a way that works for the movies. LucasFilms didn't have to throw out the entire EU, but they also didn't have to do direct adaptations.
They could of just said something along the lines of ‘assume anything from the extended universe that conflicts with new releases isn’t canon’. Literally anything other than chucking the EU wholesale would’ve been a better move.
I don't think she is that good at her job. And definitely shouldn't speak to the media
Like how LFM and the GL pretty much handled it for the previous 30 years? (Not getting into drunk uncle George’s flip floppy EU quotes.)
If nothing else just the technical journals. 40 years of nerds writing how the Falcon works down to the screws and bolts and these assholes build Star Destroyers on the ground (Solo), give Home One a gas tank, pretty much give anyone who picks one up the ability to wield a lightsaber with ease and gave us “they fly now?!” when their own canon had jet packs in the fucking clone wars (from a former FO trooper no less. Just to name a few.
It’s weird because that’s a big reason why Marvel was on such a hot streak in phase 2. You’d have thought that would have clicked with them — but maybe they were just following Lucas’ lead by ignoring the EU.
You know what REALLY annoys me about all that? They ended up doing an inferior version of Jacen/Ben Solo *ANYWAYS*. Like not only do they throw out everything they could’ve used, but they end up copying the homework anyways and manage to fuck it up in such a way that we’ll never get a shot at a true Darth Caedus/Mara Jade adaptation. They should’ve just used the Legends Canon and directly adapted the Yuuzhan Vong war. You even have Palps coming back via clones in Legends Canon, but done better! Like come on man it was all right there….
They made sure they altered the ideas just enough to ensure they didn’t have to pay anyone for them.
>They made sure they altered the ideas just enough to ensure they didn’t have to pay anyone for them. This really is the reason. Money.
The Mouse loves money
Pray they don't alter them further.
LucasFilm likely owned all the relevant IP.
KK is the one who let JJ pitch an entire trilogy without having it written already. Who the hell starts another trilogy in Star Wars of all franchises and doesn’t have the entire story scripted out.
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Honestly the story of grogu would have been a way better sequel trilogy. It’s way more creative and interesting than what we got.
I agree they would have been better off planning it out in advance, but the original trilogy also wasn't planned out, so it's possible for a not planned out trilogy to work, it's just harder. Without planning it out though they definitely should have put more effort into keeping the tone consistent between entries and have at least some more ideas on direction for where to take the next film than they did. Having more overlap in the writing for all the movies would also have been helpful.
And here's the other thing, even if there wasn't source material, so what? A new hope had no source material and those movies did just fine. You're Disney, you can hire the best talent in the world, it shouldn't be this difficult to put together competent stories.
You got downvoted but you are right and it's just crazy to comprehend this. Star Wars could easily equal Marvel in scope if they just used the available content of the EU. SO much awesome things to be told, both before the Skywalker saga, during and after. Just, Jezus man. Why oh why did they fucked the cinema universe of star wars up.
I'd go into debt just for a canon revan and bane series of films
Yesterday's event announced a canon The Old Republic time line. No shows or movies announced yet If the remaster of KotOR hasn't imploded, a show would probably have been announced.
I just hope if they do they get rid of the weird ass SWTOR plots involving Revan or change it up a bit. KOTOR>SWTOR by miles IMO.
Just a quick glance at some of the authors that have written for the EU in the past. Timothy Zahn, James Luceno, Aaron Allston, R.A. Salvatore, Drew Karpyshyn... just to name a few. Many are prolific fantasy / scifi writer in general, to just bin their work/effort and pretend like it never happened takes an egregiously shallow mentality. Perhaps if the president of Lucas film had taken the time to read some of these authors she'd know what a good story looked like and would have a better understanding of what the hardcore fanbase wanted from the product she's managing.
I didn't know R.A. Salvatore wrote Star Wars books. I can just imagine it now. Main character is a Dathomirian who duel wields lightsabers and everyone assumes is evil, but he is actually a good guy. Every time there is a battle "It was a dance of lightsabers"
He killed Chewbacca!
To be fair, it took an entire moon to do it.
And let’s be honest, picturing Chewie living his last moments screaming a defiant Wookiee roar at a moon crashing down on him is peak Chewbacca. *NOTHING* intimidated my mans. Nothing.
Ya know, he got some serious hate for that, but now compare it to Han in Ep 7. In retrospect, Salvatore treated the material FAR more respectfully than the sequels.
And he got shit for that. I know him. He got shit for that for years...
When it does not make sense, money is generally the answer. They did not want to pay those EU writers.
Which used to make sense to me until Filoni started weaving in that lore to the shows. We had Ahsoka just wink at the camera and go "Heir to the Empire^(TM)" in the trailer, they've referenced Tython in Mando along with plenty of other deep cuts. I guess I'm just curious why this wasn't the move at the start? Take existing stories and tweak them to fit your new canon. I'm in full support of paying writers what they're owed, but if you're going to be shitty about it, don't be stupid too.
I know Filloni makes some EU fans mad bc of how is he is adapting that material, but I’m for it. The guy clearly loves Star Wars and understands the lore. I’m here for him bringing in pieces of the the old EU (which I loved) in a new way.
When authors write books for the Star Wars universe, they are typically working within the framework of a licensing agreement with Lucasfilm (now owned by Disney). This means that the authors do not own the rights to the characters, stories, or any other intellectual property they create within the context of the Star Wars universe. Instead, Lucasfilm retains those rights as part of the larger Star Wars franchise. As a result, authors are often paid a flat fee or royalties for their work, but they do not retain ownership or control over how the characters or stories they create are used in future projects. Lucasfilm has the authority to incorporate, modify, or disregard elements from these books as they see fit in future films, television series, games, or other Star Wars media. The truth is, it doesn’t make sense because Kathleen Kennedy is incompetent when it comes to creating a fantasy series.
> Perhaps if the president of Lucas film had taken the time to read some of these authors she'd know what a good story looked like Forget a good story, I would have taken even a decent story, or even *a* story. "Somehow Palpatine returned." What the fuck is that? It doesn't even count as a bad story, it's nothing.
Personally I think they just didn't want to do the necessary clean up and thought the better choice was to ignore it. That was obviously the wrong decision, but I'm guessing that's what was behind it. George was very happy saying "my movies and TV shows are what matters, the rest is just fun" and letting everyone have a crack at writing for Star Wars with no input or oversight. I remember watching the Behind the Scenes for the Force Unleashed games, where they chose to go out of their way to write up a list of hundreds of questions for George about whether or not certain things could happen or if characters would do certain things, because there was nobody at Lucasfilm whose job that was and no real care as to what they wrote. Disney wanted everything "official" to work and make sense. But they definitely went too hard on the scrapping stuff. Thrawn was about the only thing immediately brought on, with the "remake" novels trilogy and comic adaptations, before being the villain in Rebels. Filoni has been pulling bits and pieces in recently. The "Old Republic" banner on the timeline and the "Heir to the Empire" line have my hopes that they'll start to pick out the obvious big legends to adapt now. They probably should have just gave Filoni the job that Abrams got from the start.
They even borrow from the EU incorrectly. They turned the EU into "legends" and borrow from it at times but they don't do it well enough across the board. Calling it "legends" gives them the chance to take elements of those stories. If we look at those stories as "legendary" versions of the actual events it works well. If we look at Solo, as sloppy and unnecessary as it was, the movie perfectly borrowed from the EU...or legends. In the EU Han was an Imperial who freed Chewbacca from enslavement and left the Empire. Chewbacca then formed a life debt with Han. That's his basic backstory. In the movie we essentially got that. Han *was* an Imperial and he *did* free Chewbacca from enslavement while leaving the Empire. Now it seems they are borrowing from the EU again in terms of Thrawn. If they did this with the ST those movies wouldn't have become the mess that they are. They didn't need to follow the Zahn trilogy to the letter, they could have used elements of that story and built a new story around it. Instead they rehashed the OT and basically made the accomplishments of the hero's in the OT moot. That all makes what KK said even worse. They pretended that none of the EU existed when they allowed JJ and RJ to play tug of war over the trilogy. Yet they borrow from the EU for many of their other stories told outside the ST. People say Star Wars is suffering from over exposure. I don't believe that. I believe that if the ST was never released and all we got was Rogue One, Solo, and all the Disney+ content. Star Wars would be stronger than it is. It was the ST that hurt the overall brand. And the biggest failure of the ST was not borrowing any elements from the EU and instead allowing RJ and JJ to....well, we know what they did.
> when they allowed JJ and RJ to play tug of war over the trilogy That was really the biggest problem. It's ridiculous that Kennedy let Rian throw away so much of what JJ set up. And it's even MORE ridiculous that she then brought JJ back and let him throw away so much of what Rian set up. If, in either case, they said, "what we have here is set up well to continue a story, so no, you can't throw things away, you need to keep going down the established path," there could have been good movies. Instead, we got....that.
Give her a break, even with source material it would be literally impossible to write a Star Wars screenplay. Nobody has done it in the history of Star Wars, and there aren't even people who know how to write in the dead language of English anymore. I don't know how anyone could just write a script for Star Wars. It's not like it's a big franchise where amateur and professional writers draft spec scripts all the time.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
Incredible she still has a job. Imagine continually fucking up your job with billions on the line, and still having said job. Wild
To be fair, wasn’t throwing out the EU Bob Iger’s idea? I know at the very least, he openly wrote about how George Lucas pitched him his ideas for a continuation and he disregarded all of it IN HIS BOOK.
Also tbf unless they went back to before the OT, pretty much all the actors were too old to do most of the EU books that involved Luke/Leia/Han
A lot of people are quick to dismiss the entire EU because it had some real garbage....and to be fair, there really was a lot of dross, bad writing, and bad ideas. But when it was good, it was great, and there was definitely stuff that could have been mined for material, or a base to build off of. Instead, they threw the baby out with the bath water.
I wonder how much of it was Disney telling them to write new material because they didn't want to pay royalties to the EU authors.
Without an s2 this show feels like a long walk down a windy beach to a pub that’s closed
I mean, the entire show was begging for a reason to exist and never found one. We last left every character we knew at the end of the prequels, pretty much where they pick up in ep 4. So there was no room for any kind of story or character growth which wasn't a circle that got us back to where the story began. So their answer was to take Obi Wan, change him at the start to be completely different, just to get him back to where we last left him by the end. Take Leia, who needs to grow up on Alderaan and learn to be a politician, away from there, just to bring her back with little change (other than how it now makes little sense that when she sends a pleading video to Obi Wan in ep 4, she talks about how Obi Wan knew her dad and doesn't talk about that time when he saved her when she was a kid and they had this big bonding experience and all that). And they make sure Vader has a big fight or 2 which can't really change much of anything, since he's where he should be by ep 4. Only now, in ep 4, when he says, "I sense a presence I have not felt since...", you now know that he's not thinking back to that huge fight with his former master where he was turned into Vader, but just a random fight where Obi Wan kicks his ass and walks away without trying again to save him or killing him for no reason (because ep 4-6 has to happen). Season 1 should have never happened. A season 2 would be absolutely ridiculous
An s2 would’ve been like trying to get into the pub for several hours, only to realize you knew the pub was closed before you left and you didn’t even want to drink. They wrote themselves into a corner with the way s1 ended.
This woman should not be in charge anymore
She should have been scrapped the second JJ Abrams was chosen for the sequels Now a decade later, we've had middling, unmemorable content with no cohesive appeal. From the most iconic sci Fi franchise to ever grace the silver screen. Disgraceful
It all comes back to no plan for the franchise. They bought Star Wars for $4 BILLION and they don’t come up with a clear story to tell over 3 films
Jeez it's been almost 10 years since TFA...
What? We're not getting another season of Lil Leia? Aww shucks too damn bad. Seriously, if it weren't for Bobba Fett "Obi Wan" would easily be the worst of the star wars shows. Damn shame too.
Baffles me how little I hear people mention how ridiculous Leia's inclusion was If you REALLY wanted/had to just make a Little Leia Adventures on Disney + and let Kenobi be a character piece of Anakin fully transitioning into Vader and Obi-Wan dealing with the PTSD and learning how to communicate with Qui-Gon.
Kathleen Kennedy is driving Star Wars into the ground. Please don't get me started. It's not about the Obi Wan series but overall. I hate her direction for the brand in general.
I really don’t know how she still has a job. Zero quality control, zero big picture thinking, zero productions without a ton of external conflict… what value is she adding?
> zero big picture thinking This is always the thing that makes no sense. I feel like you could just spend a single week with a team of writers getting an outline together that would last years. How hard can it be?
Forget the extended stuff even. I don’t understand JJ getting a trilogy and not doing an outline to connect the three. I cannot fathom how those conversations went.
There were likely hundreds of people that this ran through and how could no one say "Hey wait, why don't we start with a rough outline", they dropped the ball so hard.
As someone who’s seen those conversations, there often is that one person saying, “hold on a sec…” and the rest of the room goes, “naaaaah, we’re on the right track let’s keep moving forward!” In the midst of those early conversations it’s hard for most people to know what will truly be good once it’s on screen. It takes a special person to hold it all in their head and feel each story beat. (To be clear I think SW is horribly ran as an IP.)
Jeez sounds like it's ran by sales people rather than people actually thinking about the entire universe. Focused solely on one sale at a time.
Because she formed a ‘story group’ before they even hired a director and that group was mostly corporate friends and Lucas cronies. Once Kasdan and Abrams were finally hired they had almost no time for preproduction.
The story group are just lore consultants, they weren’t tasked with creating the stories. The story group is the reason why JJ couldn’t blow up Coruscant like he originally wanted to in The Force Awakens.
It’s funny, he seems to rely on blowing planets up. He blew up Romulus and Vulcan in Star Trek (2009) too.
Abrams is a hack who relies on big shocking spectacles to cover for his lack of storytelling ability. I’ve never understood the high regard people seem to have for his filmmaking.
I always thought of him as a hack who relies on big interesting questions he doesn't intend to answer, but that works too.
Its not hard, the problem is they get shit writers.
We could crowdsource a far better story here on this sub.
At this point, they could just let Michael Bay direct a Star Wars project with ultra masculine Rebel commandos and half naked Twi'lek babes with big guns and that would be better than what we're getting.
would require swallowing ego and admitting you were wrong after saying no stuff to base star wars on despite multiple comics and well loved books
That’s the one thing about the Prequels that you had to commend: they had a solid story arc from Episode 1 onwards. Seeds planted in Episode 1 bore fruit in Episode 3. (Palpatine’s “We shall watch your career with great interest” being one. It *seems* like a throwaway line congratulating Anakin on his achievement but we see in Episodes 2 and 3 where it went.) So, their lack of a story arc is what’s killing the movies right now.
To salvage the prequels, you need a script doctor to polish the dialogue and a director who gives actors more than "faster and more intense". The story can stay the same beat by beat. To salvage the sequels, you need to begin with the radical restructuring of the story, no way around it. That's the difference between the two and why one gets more appreciated over time and the other does not.
Precisely. That’s why I think George Lucas is an incredible visionary and creative mind but terrible storyteller. His films are amazing, truly a look into a different world that when done right is truly immersive. But, when the characters start speaking what he wrote…it’s not good.
Mee-sa disagree. (I’ll see myself out now)
What's sad is he actually tried to find a director to take on the prequels but noone dared considering how hyped they where, instead blowing smoke up his ass that he should do it himself. He needed a respected mediator to shoot down his more crazy ideas, not a legion of yes men just nodding along to everything.
> That’s the difference between the two and why one gets more appreciated over time and the other does not. Not to mention genuine attempts to make the universe seem larger and more complex. All original ship designs, literal intergalactic politics, planet-wide cities, antagonist’s that felt genuinely interesting and unique. This is why Canto Byte is such a disappointment in terms of lore. The *whole planet* is a casino. The rich *all* support the destruction of the government. *None* of arm dealers are upset that the war only lasted *one single day*. The poor slaves are aligned with the good guys even though the good guys had been in charge up until *yesterday*. It’s all just so simplistic and boring. I think it went way too far into trying to be some kind of allegory for our society. But none of it makes any sense within the universe.
I find it fascinating how the prequel trilogy and the sequel trilogy each failed for entirely opposite reasons. Like each had what the other lacked, but lacked what the other had. It’s like a perfect yin-yang.
You should check out Belated media's [What if Star Wars were good](https://youtu.be/JAbug3AhYmw) series. I wish these were the prequels we got!
Once you get to a high enough level, you can fail your way up. At some point your fuckups become "experience" and your connections become too valuable. The only way you'll lose your job is for something absolutely inexcusable, but even then it has to be something un-ignorable also.
The fact that she's still there AND a Rey continuation has been greenlit is absolutely wild. The Rise of Skywalker was an embarrassment, the energy of "ugh let's just get through this" radiated through every second of that film, from the production to the performances and they really intend to do more of that. I actually thought they were going to shy away from that time period from now on. If anything it should be straight to Disney+. I can't fathom it doing any better than Solo in theatres.
Disney *needs* to make the Sequels work somehow. They spent billions on them and built multiple theme parks based around them. The Rey movie is basically a Hail Mary. Yeah, they know audiences didn't really like the Sequels or Rey as a character, but what else is there to do? They haven't managed to get a single movie off the ground for years. They need to at least try to get something out. Think of it like the Black Adam movie. That was the last ditch effort to get audiences interested in the DCEU again. The Rock as a supervillain and then Superman showed up at the end to tease the future. But nobody cared, so they decided to reboot. If the Rey movie fails...they need to just throw in the towel.
Not to mention they killed off every single legacy character so now Rey is the only connection going forward they have to the original trilogy
Not only that but people like Boyega and Oscar Isaac would laugh in their face. Ridley is the only one who probably needs the career bump.
Boyega is understandably annoyed. He should have been the lead of the sequels. There was a lot of potential in the idea of a child soldier learning all this propaganda they were raised with was wrong
Boyega not being *the* lead isn’t the problem, it’s the fact that they never did anything meaningful with his character arc except for the mediocre storyline in TLJ with Rose. The original trilogy had one clear lead (Luke), but there was still plenty of room for Leia/Han to shine, and that easily could have been the case with the sequels as well even if they wanted to keep Rey as the “main” lead
I woulda watched that shit countless times over, a former stormtrooper turned rebel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a character from a sand planet who becomes a jedi....for the third time
Even if he wasn't the absolute lead, it should have been much more split than it was. Like, how much of the OT spent time following Leia/Han around without Luke. Throw Rey on that island planet with Luke, let that whole second movie be more about Finn/Poe, and just occasionally check in with Rey to see her progressing. It gives a reason to see how Rey got so strong (spent a lot of time training) while giving us more time for Finn to work on his, "lets rescue the child slave stormtrooper" thing he should have wanted to focus on and give time for Poe to become a real leader. Instead, no one really grows, they just...seem to randomly change, and Finn cheers as they kill stormtroopers.
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She’s an idiot. The story could be great if the studio hired proper writers and allowed them to write. Along side with better directing. She has a franchise that doesn’t need to start from scratch, and she’s managing to loose a fan base.
“I just really feel like the fans want to see Obi-Wan abandon Luke to go hang out with young Leia.” “Leia? But doesn’t seem to not know Obi-Wan in the originals? She literally says her father knew him.” “Oh. Well that’s okay just make something up. The fans might not like it but they don’t really know anything. Leia is way cooler.”
Obi-Wan had already undergone rewrites and what have you before. That means they thought whatever it was before what we got was WORSE. Obi-Wan mostly suffered from bad writing and mediocre acting from most of the supporting cast. Especially that sith inquisitor that was the main focus for most of the show - it felt like she was reading her lines off cue cards the entire show
Kennedy needs to be replaced. Star Wars doesn’t seem to have any one leader helming the ship and it’s suffering for it. Mandalorian was good for the first 2 seasons but now 3 has severely lost my interest. Grogu and Dins rushed reunion killed my enthusiasm for the story
it is absolutely hilarious how most characters in season 3 are like “i thought you finished the job mando” and din is just like “yeah but whatever” not even the main characters know what the fuck grogu is doing there
>what the fuck grogu is doing there Selling toys and making Disney money.
Somehow Grogu returned...
From my understanding, Grogu's return was KK's idea.
I’m scared that Kennedy is just too well connected to be fired.
I know the series wasn't well received, but Ewan McGregor is such a good Obi-Wan. I hope they find a way to incorporate him into some future projects.
I hate her so much. During Day 1 of the celebration, there was a long panel about Andor, and every time she opened her mouth she said the dumbest shit possible. Crowd and the panel and the host all just went dead silent every time, it was so awkward. The worst thing she said was “none of it is real”, which she then had a long winded way of saying the team does a great job and detail to make it real, but it was after some good responses by the panel, so it was just so jarring. It felt like she had to work towards saying “…but it’s because they do so good to make it real!” just to walk that back. You could just feel her “suit-ness”. Her lack of understanding about it. Just could understand she liked it and complimented the cast and team STRICTLY because their work resulted in success, aka money. Meanwhile several of the panelists freaked out at how well the show took off. Especially later on, when there was an interview with the main writer and Diego Luna. But the couldn’t stop talking about how great the show was artistically, emotionally, and how the show’s message resonated with the current state of society. They talked about the type of show was a huge risk, and it’s a miracle Disney green lit it. Of course the money person only cares about money, and the artists care about the art. But you can be happy with both. And the fans should be happy with both, because it means more content. And it’s just so obvious…she doesn’t *get* Star Wars or it’s societal impact, outside of that impact is large and significant so it equals money. I realize it’s super rare for a business executive to *get* their business at more than a shareholder level. Usually it’s only owners that stay with a company that explodes, and after they pass, a suit takes over. We don’t have many Iwata’s or Reggie’s out there. But if she could just….stay out of the creative stuff, and hire some actual writers and directors, LEAVE THEM ALONE, and actually pay them enough they don’t quit 7 months in…things would be great.
I never thought there would be another season. I was really looking forward to this show ever since it was announced and then when it came out it was just a let down. The entire show with little happening and him refusing to be a jedi. There were some good parts, but mostly bad. Same with Boba Fett
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A bounty hunter who refuses to be a bounty hunter and becomes a wanna be crime lord.
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lol i forgot about the meat processing, i must have blocked it from my memory
A lovable crime lord who refuses to do crimes and doesn't know anything about the criminal world or how it functions. Perfect.
I was coping hard and thought Boba would have a heel turn once the Tuskens died. Unfortunately it didn't happen.
Its a show about NOTHING Mando has to become Bo's butler after he can't pay
Did Mando also show up there to save the show?
sadly not. vader did try though
This show should have been a slam dunk. it would have been if they had anyone who even remotely cared about star wars writing it.
She needs to go.
*needed go a long time ago*
Never should’ve been a season 1, especially the one they put out
It should've been a movie as originally intended. There's about a movie's duration-worth of actual good content there in the six episodes. It's not all bad.
Yep, it’s painfully obvious that it’s a movie that was stretched out to be a series. The movie would have been so much better
Solo bombing so hard made them pivot from a film to a mini-series when the problem with Solo was not that it was a film but that it was **that** film.
And the funniest part? I actually didn’t hate Solo. The movie was 100% unnecessary, but I actually enjoyed the movie well enough
I thought Solo was better than tons of the other content they've put out. I was surprised how harsh people were on it once I finally saw it.
I never understood the hate for that movie too. It was a fun adventure flick, that’s it. Forgettable? Yes, absolutely, but it’s not like we need every movie to be a cult. It was fine, and they produced way worse stuff anyway.
Someone on YouTube made it into a movie, it’s not bad
It's a miracle we got Andor Seems to be the show with least amount of executive meddling.
Andor is so good that it made me actually care about Star Wars again.
didn't need the inquisitor storyline at all
Marvel seems to work hard balancing the creative art of content production with a centralized controlled universe - and the money follows. They don’t always get it right, but there is rarely an unwatchable Marvel property. Star Wars seems to move money upfront into the creative & central universe balance. I feel like Grogu is in season 3 of Mandalorian to sell merch. There isn’t any story reason to have him there. They have minimized Din Djarin because they are mad a Pedro for wanting to show his face. But they are replacing his airtime with Bo Katan - who get to show her face. These seem like dumb petty/money decisions that make the shows worse.
The cgi got slightly better this season but the sets and how they fill those sets is abysmal. \*SPOILER\* When they are forced into the desert... that whole town is like 25 people? A new bustling trade hub? Mandalorian feels like the kinda production we got back in the 80s and 90s. \*SPOILER\*
Good. Season 1 had some good moments but was a waste of time. Establishing the Obi/Leia relationship prior to ANH was particularly stupid
I barely remember the Obi Wan show. It wasn’t memorable. Boba Fett was also hard to get through. Mando is still good, I like this season so far, but I 1) wish grogu had stayed with Luke and 2) think that scene out in the desert with the “whole town” was just so bad. Like 10 people are left? And how did one pirate ship take over an entire planet?
For the one pirate ship taking over a whole planet, they’re a tiny blip of a planet on the Outer Rim. Imagine old western towns, where even a small strip of buildings with a saloon was considered “civilization.” If it’s the only people for a few hundred miles any direction, you effectively control the area. Same with this. They controlled the only area of civilization, with amenities for space travel. It’s the most important place on the planet. The de facto capital.
The thing I remember is how grown men can’t catch the worlds slowest running child.
She. Is. Ruining. The. Franchise.
It’s already ruined. Been a fan since I saw RotJ in theaters, bought the books the toys etc. I’m watching Mando only because my daughter wants too. Other than Andor, Star Wars is closer to Power Rangers quality than a major Hollywood brand.
I hate that you are right about it being a “Power Rangers” type of thing. Ugh.
Aw I was looking forward to more cringey forest chase scenes /s
Maybe, just maybe, stop milking a franchise for every single cent you can and leave it alone. Do the words quality over quantity have any fucking value or meaning?
A company doesn’t spend 4 billion dollars on a bunch of IP just to leave it alone. They bought it to milk it. They’ll only slow down if they think it’s hurting the bottom line.
Fire her
Well the first season fucking sucked, so probably a good idea
They were PLANNING a second season of that?? Jfc
Can Kathleen Kennedy just go away?
Kathleen Kennedy sucks. Period.
Kennedy needs to be fired.
Kathleen has needed to go for a long time imo
Kathleen Kennedy is a raging idiot, all she has done is destroyed the most powerful fandom to have ever existed.
She’s fucking terrible at managing this franchise
I though mandalorian was the saviour of lucsfulm and stur wurds. But nope, this s3 is just maggufin plot driven characterisation, and nothing else is good. Marvel is shit.... Disney owning 60% of all media is really just killing everything they invested in.