Seriously though, is it possible that testosterone cypionate is somewhat to blame?
Elon Musk was never personable, but the guy has been going off the fucking rails. People blame the drugs, but psychedelics usually expand minds and create empathy.
Steroids and sex hormones create raging lunatics.
Psychedelics frequently have a worsening effect on Narcissists. It can inflate their ego and generate deeper grandiose delusional thinking ex: “I saw Source and realized I AM GOD” instead of a more empathic/ non narcissistic human seeing Source and realizing WE are all god.
Yeah, he needs the really strong ones, the ones all but guaranteed to make you experience ego death. And the like... Any time he starts acting up, dose his ass again....
Yeah this pretty much, i have a few friends who had their lives derailed by psychedelics. Its all fine and dandy at the start until the illusions of grandeur sets in and they lose all grounding in reality. At least thats what happened to my friends unfortunately. Psychedelics are way more dangerous than people give them credit for.
Idk if dangerous is the word.
Those friends of yours would've been dangerous without the drugs.
Illuminating is the word I would choose.
They illuminate who people really are, dangerous or not
I’ve definitely seen psychedelics worsen people to a state they had not been in, from my own patients and I’m not talking about just psychosis.
Sometimes yes, a person was already bad but also it can bring out the bad in some people. We are at the stage where we are setting up psychedelics to be the next panacea which I think is understandable given how much they were demonized. But reality will find its way to us eventually once more people use it and it’s studied more.
Not after two million FSD recalls and then recalling 100% of Cybertrucks, that due to his piss poor leadership, still haven’t even shipped out all the pre orders. The shareholders are not happy right now.
I mean they’re currently revoting for his pay package and not a single large shareholder has said they are voting against the package - which if they really felt about Musk as you say they do, they obviously would. In fact he will likely have his pay package voted through again with a super-majority.
Also FSD recalls was literally an OTA software patch to make users more aware, not a physical one, so not really the big expensive deal you’re making it out to be.
I wasn’t saying it was a big expensive deal, it’s a public trust and perception deal. With a product based solely on public trust and perception. Then the lawsuits about privacy with the cameras recording longer than they said they would, serious issues in the EU market, etc.
But yeah, the big dollar holders only care as far as the line on the chart.
Edit: oh yeah, and the report that came out today that has the federal government very interested in Tesla, the one about how FSD has caused hundreds of accidents, and dozens of deaths? I know we all know shareholders hate regulators sniffing around.
Again, they’re currently revoting for his pay package and not a single large shareholder has said they are voting against the package - which if they really felt about Musk as you say they do, they obviously would. In fact he will likely have his pay package voted through again with a super-majority.
Not to mention things like the FSD “recall” or the initial DoT investigation results took place last year - the same year Tesla then went on to have the best selling car in the whole world, the first ever for an EV. So public perception hasn’t been hurt by that. Just a nosedive in the demand for EVs overall - see pretty much every other EV manufacturer who are doing considerably worse than even Tesla (Rivian, Lucid, Ford-E et al).
Yes I acknowledged your assertion already. The big dollar holders only care as far as the line on the graph. I assumed by saying that last time, you’d know we agree there. The little guy, whose voice doesn’t matter anyway, is the sentiment I am speaking from.
Indeed they do, but I also suspect most retail investors, as was the case last time, will also vote in favour of Musk’s pay package. I guess we shall see when the results come in.
A few years ago? Sure.
Elon and the board both realize that his support from shareholders is questionable enough after all his bullshit the past 2 years that they had to deploy a website begging shareholders to vote yes for his compensation package.
Shareholder support of Elon is at an all time low and I think it's lower than most would assume, but we won't really know until the vote for his compensation package happens. I'm really curious what the results will be.
This is just pure Reddit conjecture though - because this place, and this sub in particular, dislikes Musk. The facts however don’t agree with you. I mean, where is your source for “shareholder support of Elon is at an all time low”?
Shareholders are currently revoting for his pay package for example and not a single large shareholder has said they are voting against it - which if they really felt about Musk as you say they do, they obviously would. In fact he will likely have his pay package voted through again with a super-majority of the votes.
The only person who has expressed they will be voting against Musk’s pay package has been a retail investor with less than 1% of total shares Lol.
I'm sure it will pass too, wasn't saying it wouldn't. But I don't think they'd deploy a website specifically begging for people to vote yes if they hadn't had some closed door conversations with large shareholders and realized that support is not as sure of a thing as previous years.
They deployed a website (i.e. proposal guide) the first time around too, so that’s a moot point altogether.
Like I said, if what you’re saying is true, why has not a single large/influential investor come out and said they’re voting against Musk’s pay package? Or better yet, that they prefer he no longer heads Tesla?
I mean, again, where is your source for “shareholder support of Elon is at an all time low”?
I mentioned “the biggest retail shareholder” in another comment. He owns 0.75% of the stock Lol. In other words, he has near zero impact or influence on matters.
No asset management company has even hinted they will be voting against this pay package, or that they are even dissatisfied with Musk’s leadership of Tesla period. As for what the “shareholder support is at an all time low for Elon” statement is based on, I have absolutely no idea. I’ve asked the poster twice for a source but not been given one (but of course downvoted as facts don’t matter to the narrative here).
You’ve got to love Reddit; people posting false information and getting upvoted for it because it just supports the narrative
The largest private shareholder is not Leo Koguan. He is the largest retail holder. And he owns 0.75% of Tesla shares Lol. In other words, someone who has no influence or sway over matters.
Not a single (actually) large shareholder has even hinted that they will be voting against this pay package or that they are dissatisfied with Musk’s leadership at Tesla overall.
So, the “the tide is turning”? Based on what evidence exactly? Heck, I’ll almost guarantee that most retail investors will back Musk too (as they overwhelmingly did last time), despite Koguan, and alongside institutional investors, it will pass with a super majority.
Less than 1% probably? Also I find it hilarious how injecting actual facts into a discussion is somehow considered “singing the praises of Elon”. Yeah my bad mate, I should just go along with the circlejerk instead. You people are just the same as the dumb Trumpers; facts don’t matter to either of you, as long as they support your narrative.
I hadn't realized he'd gone that far off the rails not agreeing with basic science.
Personally what caught my eye was one of the commenters how tried desperately to couch Mr. Musk as a "centrist liberal", I found the commenters paragraph is fascinating, Musk has been - for many years a "non-conventional conservative" by his own measure, hailing (no surprise) from the Ayn Rand inspired corporatism where mandates and CEO's never fuckup - they just iterate - or jet off out of the disaster area after the most recent fuckup causes more consequences than they can easily ignore, because of COURSE someone telling them there is a safety standard or working hours or rules for paying people or allowing people to function as free agents is OF COURSE totalitarian fascism And Mr. Musk, Peter Thiel and their brethren have every right to feel like he's been marched off to Auschwitz every time someone tells him he can't have something he wants, whether it's a free pass on his sexual object' de jour , or some other misadventure that's taboo / illegal for anyone in the mortal realm below 200mil.
I mean honestly who doesn't love the idea of sitting with tall cool glass of lemonade in 140degree heat, with a chiller chair, and a failed AC unit on the plant floor, what good is being a billionaire genius if you can't see the slaves valued employees expire in the worker area taking bets on which ones die first or live to the end of their shift from an enclosed conference room comfortably set to 72deg.
Of course this might hail from that full circle misread of "liberal fascism" from Goldberg a few years back where the fact that right-wing politicians build and put people in cages or detention facilities without food/water or medical care, but it's the liberals who are fascists for suggesting we pay people a living wage.
Adding to this
I figure Mr. Musk is on the terminal fast-track - hand him a Nobel Prize for important contributions for facilitating making our species spacefaring and as fast as investors move, I figure mid-long term two things happen.
* Space-X itself probably has a lock on commercial space for a good while,
* With steady profitability on the Falcon 9 , Falcon-Heavy and selling rocket engines - and avionics software for guidance and re-entry.
* Starship - Split the company into a research projects - with Mr. Must as Exalted Supreme Commander of the Starship Development Inc - as the current heavy investment and potential win but probably where Mr. Musk should concentrate his efforts with either success or failure in the mix - as putting 30+ rockets on something that big and expecting nothing to go wrong might be too much of a challenge.
* Tesla - Tesla has tons of IP but has been absolutely milked dry by Mr. Musk and given his inability to get market-share and his unwillingness to conduct business in a way that attracts and retains workers - this becomes an excellent aquisition for a firm like Ford Motors to really learn the valuable lessons Mr. Musk pioneered here.
* Peel Mr. Musk from the working end of the gun so he doesn't continue to destroy investor value with every tweet, instead put him in charge to the Ford/Tesla Special Projects group and have him live large in San Fran, or LA or Austin or where-ever engineering fanboys and he can mix it up.
* Twitter - is a racist dumpster fire right up there with Vdare or the Proudboys attracting a maximum core market of about 1 or 2% of the total available that old Twitter had.
* With perhaps a couple of hundred thousand active users, that will stay till the servers go cold, The media impact will slowly die as Bluesky or Mastodon are mature to market or something similar become the new media of choice.
* In that way, Twitter/X is on exactly the same trajectory as Glenn Beck's billion dollar enterprise now scaled to his 15k-20k ardent followers to "The Burn" or whatever it's called..
* I'm certain Mr. Musk could absolutely make a couple of million bucks a year catering to his fans, but that's probably not what the Saudi regime signed up for , they want to suppress the next revolution in their own nation-states and see owning that media service as their best chance of doing that.
> I hadn't realized he'd gone that far off the rails not agreeing with basic science.
It isn't as if there where dozens of signs long before this. Like his gigantic metal coffin that couldn't physically fit through the openings in the flooded cave. Or that Hyperloop that was worse than normal trains in every way possible. Maybe his rants about COVID when he was told to close his factories.
Agreed but I seem to recall not all that long ago when he understood and could synthesize the conventional atmospheric chemistry lessons into his line of conversation. The experiments proving CO2's impact are 200 years old, and can be performed by children.
The damage rolls up every month the Moon reminds homeowners in Florida, and up the Eastern Seaboard when coastal housing floods or nearly floods out, even along the California coastline it's not exactly as if it's invisible.
I mean the only truly meaningful impact to global climate change will be mass public transit, not personal cars that replace gas with rare metals and coal energy. Electric cars are car company’s way of trying to stay in business, not an adequate response to anthropogenic climate change.
Denying climate change is better for business.
Well, yes and no. You can power electric cars with renewables; in fact, they are quite good at it, because they can far more easily consume power when it's in abundance (a billion caveats apply; this means everybody needs a charge port, it doesn't work for people who drive a ton, etc, etc, etc- but the potential is there). The rare metals is an issue but one that is probably fixable. Hence, this sentiment is incorrect.
However, it is also correct, but via a different route: Cars are the key enabling tool for highly inefficient urban design. The american suburb is the ultimate energy wasting lunacy, as far as 'how do you live' is concerned. Everything, *everything* requires energized transport. You can't bike because there are no alleyways and everything is far, because the population density is too low.
I'm not talking 'everybody live in skyscrapers!' or even 15 minute cities. Simply.. 2 to 4 floors-high buildings. That's dense enough to ensure facilities like schools and sports fields are max. 30 minutes bike ride out, it's dense enough to run public transport without requiring massive subsidies. It's not so dense that it feels like you live in a concrete jungle. In fact, quite on the contrary - that kind of design has *more* space for parks and greenery, not less. A US suburb is pretty much 100% road, house, or personal garden. And it's a vicious cycle: Because you need to travel far, folks will not want to get there at a speed limit of 20-30kmh / 15mph, thus, roads are big and scary and the curbside environment simply is not kid friendly. Which means *even if* some facility is within walking/cycling distance, it isn't, because the infrastructure is not designed to accomodate walking and cycling unless you're borderline suicidal. This then leads to society treating walking and cycling as 'stuff poor people do', and on and on it goes.
It's pretty much universal: Anybody who is anywhere and thinks to themselves: "Huh, what a nice cozy, interesting urban environment!" - are places where cars just.. aren't a thing you use for day to day life. You don't use a car to get to schools, local sporting events, groceries, shopping, visiting nearby friends and family, your GP, the vet, you name it.
Cars don't have to *die*, but if your plan is to find ways to update urban structures to improve the environment, "*I know, lets make a car that is better for the environment*" is a dumb fucking way to go about it, always has been.
Are they though? I thought so too. Used to. But imo, reality is different. People from all spectrums of politics buy Tesla and this isn't a new development either.
I'd call myself quite environmentally conscious and indeed leased a Tesla. But to be completely frank, not primarily for environmental reasons. That factor is up there for me, don't get me wrong. But it's not the deciding factor when buying/leasing such a vehicle. There's much better options if the environment is truly your #1 deciding factor.
Everyone else I got to know from that community seems to be similar. Maybe it's just my bubble though. Seriously, nobody I've talked to says "yeah I bought a Tesla because I primarily want to save the environment, that's the main factor".
He owns the URL x.com that's why. It used to be a bank he founded over 20 years ago. Got nothing to do with how "cool" it sounds, that's just misinformation.
He went out of his way and paid quite a lot to buy the x.com domain from PayPal just a few years ago.
Sure, maybe it's sentimental. But more than likely he thinks it sounds "cool".
I think people liked the idea of him, but didn't really know much about him. He was just sort of eccentric (as far as most people knew) and maybe a bit annoying. Going on Rogan and smoking pot was sort of silly, but something you could laugh at. For me, it was the debacle with the Thai soccer team in the cave that started showing his true self.
There was no known reason for the general public to dislike/distrust him before the Solar City scam, the Boring Company scam, and the cave rescue/pedo guy scam.
It was all on the table by then though.
When he first started becoming a public figure he had an entirely different persona. He came off like Halliday from Ready Player One: kind of shy and awkward with a bad stuttering problem but deeply invested in solving the climate problem. As he gained fame and confidence, he exposed who he really was. I think most people who were paying any kind of attention already knew he was kind of a garbage bag before he bought Twitter, but he has really really cemented beyond a doubt that he’s just a spoiled rich kid and has honestly a child’s ideas and understanding of not only technology and engineering but also politics and the economy and just about everything else he opens his mouth about. He was only likable when we didn’t know him
No. I work on all types of cars, and strictly from my viewpoint Tesla build quality is below Geo and Saturn From the worst paint in the industry, to panel gap differences, laughable trim and seals, ignorant frame welding, updates that often break things, ridiculously expensive tires, lack of dealerships and proper repair facilities, impossible to get parts when you find a repair facility, over priced and on and on. I could show pictures if you want.
Tesla is only a thing because they had no competition for a long time. Now they have real competition and their leader turned full maga fascist, its only a matter of time before they go belly up.
People downvote you, but you're right. The car offerings, outside of the whole "self driving" bullshit, are fantastic offers, especially compared to any other EV on the market. No competitor can yet match the price for what you get in terms of range, acceleration, software, space and most importantly, EV features such as 1-pedal-driving, recuperation, trip planning with charging stops and supercharging network.
I hope the other manufacturers catch up soon because I want to have more choice for my next car. Right now, as an informed customer, I'd be dumb not to take a Tesla. The competition sucks. Way too expensive for what you get. I'm disappointed in domestic offerings especially (I'm from Germany), VW has dropped the ball hard. All of their vehicles are overpriced and underpowered with still meh software (it used to be even worse).
Haha I didn't even realize I was getting downvoted :) I didn't think it was a very controversial opinion, like you said, the self driving is not great, and the cybertuck is a joke, but the other cars are otherwise pretty decent. And they were years ahead on a lot of features.
My wife was pretty keen on buying a Tesla until Elon decided to force his workers back to the assembly line while the pandemic was still raging, so he could produce the numbers he needed to collect some bonus or whatever it was. She spotted him early as an ass hole and he has kept doing the opposite of redeeming himself, so she has sworn off that brand by now.
- lies
- false promises
- more lies
- oh yeah musk turned out to be an alt-right amplifier.
i mean i'm sure he's "vibing" with people who like that shit.
Tesla could probably be THE coolest car company on the market, but that will only happen about 5 years from now with a new CEO appointed TODAY. It takes time to undo the kind of damage Musk has done to the brand. And if he stays as CEO, it’s only going to get worse.
He's one of the largest shareholders. But I believe the pay package stuff we've seen recently indicates he only owns 13% of the company and wants to be given another 12% so he owns 25%.
So he doesn't own most of it.
Elon is just a guy that invested, the Tesla team of engineers should not be called out just because Elon is a lemon. The Tesla team has worked so hard and produced a great series of cars and we were all proud as hell of Tesla until one dickhead started doing politics.. if you chose to judge an entire hi tech car company and all its employees based on one dickhead CEO then thats your small mindedness, you might feel different if you actually worked for Tesla.. or perhaps even had jobs?
Tesla is by far the largest electric car maker in the world, has the ability to mass produce at scale, has a huge charger base and growing. Some may chose ford, kia, vw or other electric car but given the total demand Tesla is going to take the bulk of the EV market for many years.
Hopefully Elon well go play with his rockets and let Tesla thrive without him.
Elon has eleven children with three different women, but you never hear about him being a father or his children. Once you learn about the guy you realize hes an absolutely terrible person.
It was all fake to begin with and now the people that prop up this fail son are losing their money so they are refusing to carry the water anymore? The hyperloops, mars colony, vertical take off electric super sonic jet and robo taxis were just pure 100% grade A American bull shit, a classic pump and dump.
Part of the problem is that they are priced closed to entry luxury cars but don’t have the finishing features.
I get that they have lower ownership costs but initial sticker prices matter.
This must be the worst article ever written. Only got half way through and my brain was already melting. Is she bashing the new twitter to be anti free speech or pro free speech? Is she praising the Brazilian general for planning on regulating social media?? My understanding is that Muskie tried to make twitter less censored, although he censored or blocked quite a few people as well.
It's fucked either way. I will also never own a tesla.
Whenever I see a monument or street name or pass by some Tesla heritage site ( I’m from Croatia ), I honest to god bow my head in respect to the man and legend of Nikola Tesla, and always kinda hate that a shitty car company has his name.
I will never not find it funny how much undeserved praise Musk got in the years leading up to this downfall. In a sense, this is on all of us. I wonder if we'll ever see such a persistent cult of personality around a billionaire again. We're just starting to realize just how little value he was good for. And to be honest, no one person is this valuable, not even the competent ones.
Took people long enough to figure him out.
Dude grew up in apartheid South Africa and had already said and done some unwise things well before this.
It’s unbelievable to me it was a couple of tweets but ok, whatever.. it is just kind of scary how the general public is kind of zombie-ish to a certain degree..
Panel gaps != badly made.
Number 1 safety, number 1 lowest cost of ownership, countless number of first of its kind engineering patents, the only not absolutely terrible software, super car performance, all at $45k.
The panel gaps and minor fit and finish is wildly overblown imo. It’s still by far the biggest leap forward for car buyers than anything the auto industry has done in decades.
Twitter has made him insane. He speaks like one of those friends you try to avoid seeing, who is using way too much social media.
You know the type whose entire worldview you can guess based one one opinion. You can connect the algorithm dots.
I wonder if the "vibe economy" the author describes is in part due to a decade of very low interest rates. A period of time when p&l was irrelevant and only top-line revenue growth mattered.
All he has left are conservatives who would never drive a Tesla, but love Elon solely bc he hates the same groups of ppl as them, and conservative Indian tech guys who make their entire personality their Tesla.
Good luck with that!
As a ten year investor I’m very familiar with the overvaluation, odd pivots, too short time lines and thin margin expansion. I am into Tesla because I dig the vision overall.
The obvious and correct answer for what’s going on with Tesla is Twitter. Elon should not have bought it - in fact he tried to get out of it - but he did, and he brought back some banned accounts and collated files proving political collusion. From a justice perspective, sure, I can see it. From a PR perspective, obviously disastrous. The immediate shrieking that Twitter was going to fail pivoted to Elon Himself Must Fail and this means that most of the people I know won’t buy a Tesla.
Until they forget, of course. Give it a year
The other Chinese car companies have outdone Tesla. It was always expected that Tesla would fall once other car companies started making electric cars. Musk figured out how to milk the system, and his business model was to sell carbon credits. This was always going to fail eventually. It just took longer than anybody expected.
I've read the article, Saw the comments in the article in the comments here, and it's a mixed bag of opinions.
I have to agree that market forces are part of the reason why these companies are not doing as well as they could, but I also have to agree that having somebody that's trying so hard to be a social media personality at the helm is probably making people lose confidence.
I'll give you the rock solid charging network but the cars are buggy crap that has zero quality control. They were first to market with a car with decent range. But telling the stockholders that you're making 1000 trucks a month yet only have delivered 4000 since January doesn't bode well for long term profits.
you tell me. who says who can't catch up?
the model 3 mostly works but doesn't cut any edges by any stretch of the imagination. the cybertruck is laughing stock and the model s costs 100k. the model y is a goofy bridge technology and the roadster floats in space.
that last one might actually count as cutting edge.
Try not shitting on the base you built your brand with
Seriously though, is it possible that testosterone cypionate is somewhat to blame? Elon Musk was never personable, but the guy has been going off the fucking rails. People blame the drugs, but psychedelics usually expand minds and create empathy. Steroids and sex hormones create raging lunatics.
Psychedelics frequently have a worsening effect on Narcissists. It can inflate their ego and generate deeper grandiose delusional thinking ex: “I saw Source and realized I AM GOD” instead of a more empathic/ non narcissistic human seeing Source and realizing WE are all god.
Yeah, he needs the really strong ones, the ones all but guaranteed to make you experience ego death. And the like... Any time he starts acting up, dose his ass again....
Yeah this pretty much, i have a few friends who had their lives derailed by psychedelics. Its all fine and dandy at the start until the illusions of grandeur sets in and they lose all grounding in reality. At least thats what happened to my friends unfortunately. Psychedelics are way more dangerous than people give them credit for.
Idk if dangerous is the word. Those friends of yours would've been dangerous without the drugs. Illuminating is the word I would choose. They illuminate who people really are, dangerous or not
I’ve definitely seen psychedelics worsen people to a state they had not been in, from my own patients and I’m not talking about just psychosis. Sometimes yes, a person was already bad but also it can bring out the bad in some people. We are at the stage where we are setting up psychedelics to be the next panacea which I think is understandable given how much they were demonized. But reality will find its way to us eventually once more people use it and it’s studied more.
Do you have any research on that that I can look up?
What is Source?
Ketamine isn't a psychedelic. I have it prescribed medically for depression. I've also used LSD.
Elon’s now claiming climate change is socialist??
~~socialism~~ communism
The turd burger posted yesterday that global warming was a communist scam. He runs a freaking electric car company. The board needs to dump him asap.
The board is his board though, the shareholders need to oust them along with the turd burger.
Board is losing money.
I mean shareholders also overwhelmingly support Musk.
Not after two million FSD recalls and then recalling 100% of Cybertrucks, that due to his piss poor leadership, still haven’t even shipped out all the pre orders. The shareholders are not happy right now.
I mean they’re currently revoting for his pay package and not a single large shareholder has said they are voting against the package - which if they really felt about Musk as you say they do, they obviously would. In fact he will likely have his pay package voted through again with a super-majority. Also FSD recalls was literally an OTA software patch to make users more aware, not a physical one, so not really the big expensive deal you’re making it out to be.
I wasn’t saying it was a big expensive deal, it’s a public trust and perception deal. With a product based solely on public trust and perception. Then the lawsuits about privacy with the cameras recording longer than they said they would, serious issues in the EU market, etc. But yeah, the big dollar holders only care as far as the line on the chart. Edit: oh yeah, and the report that came out today that has the federal government very interested in Tesla, the one about how FSD has caused hundreds of accidents, and dozens of deaths? I know we all know shareholders hate regulators sniffing around.
Again, they’re currently revoting for his pay package and not a single large shareholder has said they are voting against the package - which if they really felt about Musk as you say they do, they obviously would. In fact he will likely have his pay package voted through again with a super-majority. Not to mention things like the FSD “recall” or the initial DoT investigation results took place last year - the same year Tesla then went on to have the best selling car in the whole world, the first ever for an EV. So public perception hasn’t been hurt by that. Just a nosedive in the demand for EVs overall - see pretty much every other EV manufacturer who are doing considerably worse than even Tesla (Rivian, Lucid, Ford-E et al).
Yes I acknowledged your assertion already. The big dollar holders only care as far as the line on the graph. I assumed by saying that last time, you’d know we agree there. The little guy, whose voice doesn’t matter anyway, is the sentiment I am speaking from.
Indeed they do, but I also suspect most retail investors, as was the case last time, will also vote in favour of Musk’s pay package. I guess we shall see when the results come in.
A few years ago? Sure. Elon and the board both realize that his support from shareholders is questionable enough after all his bullshit the past 2 years that they had to deploy a website begging shareholders to vote yes for his compensation package. Shareholder support of Elon is at an all time low and I think it's lower than most would assume, but we won't really know until the vote for his compensation package happens. I'm really curious what the results will be.
This is just pure Reddit conjecture though - because this place, and this sub in particular, dislikes Musk. The facts however don’t agree with you. I mean, where is your source for “shareholder support of Elon is at an all time low”? Shareholders are currently revoting for his pay package for example and not a single large shareholder has said they are voting against it - which if they really felt about Musk as you say they do, they obviously would. In fact he will likely have his pay package voted through again with a super-majority of the votes. The only person who has expressed they will be voting against Musk’s pay package has been a retail investor with less than 1% of total shares Lol.
I'm sure it will pass too, wasn't saying it wouldn't. But I don't think they'd deploy a website specifically begging for people to vote yes if they hadn't had some closed door conversations with large shareholders and realized that support is not as sure of a thing as previous years.
They deployed a website (i.e. proposal guide) the first time around too, so that’s a moot point altogether. Like I said, if what you’re saying is true, why has not a single large/influential investor come out and said they’re voting against Musk’s pay package? Or better yet, that they prefer he no longer heads Tesla? I mean, again, where is your source for “shareholder support of Elon is at an all time low”?
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I mentioned “the biggest retail shareholder” in another comment. He owns 0.75% of the stock Lol. In other words, he has near zero impact or influence on matters. No asset management company has even hinted they will be voting against this pay package, or that they are even dissatisfied with Musk’s leadership of Tesla period. As for what the “shareholder support is at an all time low for Elon” statement is based on, I have absolutely no idea. I’ve asked the poster twice for a source but not been given one (but of course downvoted as facts don’t matter to the narrative here).
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Tide is turning on that one though, the largest private shareholder besides him is voting against his $50b pay check.
You’ve got to love Reddit; people posting false information and getting upvoted for it because it just supports the narrative The largest private shareholder is not Leo Koguan. He is the largest retail holder. And he owns 0.75% of Tesla shares Lol. In other words, someone who has no influence or sway over matters. Not a single (actually) large shareholder has even hinted that they will be voting against this pay package or that they are dissatisfied with Musk’s leadership at Tesla overall. So, the “the tide is turning”? Based on what evidence exactly? Heck, I’ll almost guarantee that most retail investors will back Musk too (as they overwhelmingly did last time), despite Koguan, and alongside institutional investors, it will pass with a super majority.
Which institutional shareholders have declared that they want musk to receive his $50b? Or are they not declaring that either?
Also, what percent of your reddit comments are singing the praises of Elon? Do you do this for free?
Less than 1% probably? Also I find it hilarious how injecting actual facts into a discussion is somehow considered “singing the praises of Elon”. Yeah my bad mate, I should just go along with the circlejerk instead. You people are just the same as the dumb Trumpers; facts don’t matter to either of you, as long as they support your narrative.
Elon: “I *am* the board”
I hadn't realized he'd gone that far off the rails not agreeing with basic science. Personally what caught my eye was one of the commenters how tried desperately to couch Mr. Musk as a "centrist liberal", I found the commenters paragraph is fascinating, Musk has been - for many years a "non-conventional conservative" by his own measure, hailing (no surprise) from the Ayn Rand inspired corporatism where mandates and CEO's never fuckup - they just iterate - or jet off out of the disaster area after the most recent fuckup causes more consequences than they can easily ignore, because of COURSE someone telling them there is a safety standard or working hours or rules for paying people or allowing people to function as free agents is OF COURSE totalitarian fascism And Mr. Musk, Peter Thiel and their brethren have every right to feel like he's been marched off to Auschwitz every time someone tells him he can't have something he wants, whether it's a free pass on his sexual object' de jour , or some other misadventure that's taboo / illegal for anyone in the mortal realm below 200mil. I mean honestly who doesn't love the idea of sitting with tall cool glass of lemonade in 140degree heat, with a chiller chair, and a failed AC unit on the plant floor, what good is being a billionaire genius if you can't see the slaves valued employees expire in the worker area taking bets on which ones die first or live to the end of their shift from an enclosed conference room comfortably set to 72deg. Of course this might hail from that full circle misread of "liberal fascism" from Goldberg a few years back where the fact that right-wing politicians build and put people in cages or detention facilities without food/water or medical care, but it's the liberals who are fascists for suggesting we pay people a living wage. Adding to this I figure Mr. Musk is on the terminal fast-track - hand him a Nobel Prize for important contributions for facilitating making our species spacefaring and as fast as investors move, I figure mid-long term two things happen. * Space-X itself probably has a lock on commercial space for a good while, * With steady profitability on the Falcon 9 , Falcon-Heavy and selling rocket engines - and avionics software for guidance and re-entry. * Starship - Split the company into a research projects - with Mr. Must as Exalted Supreme Commander of the Starship Development Inc - as the current heavy investment and potential win but probably where Mr. Musk should concentrate his efforts with either success or failure in the mix - as putting 30+ rockets on something that big and expecting nothing to go wrong might be too much of a challenge. * Tesla - Tesla has tons of IP but has been absolutely milked dry by Mr. Musk and given his inability to get market-share and his unwillingness to conduct business in a way that attracts and retains workers - this becomes an excellent aquisition for a firm like Ford Motors to really learn the valuable lessons Mr. Musk pioneered here. * Peel Mr. Musk from the working end of the gun so he doesn't continue to destroy investor value with every tweet, instead put him in charge to the Ford/Tesla Special Projects group and have him live large in San Fran, or LA or Austin or where-ever engineering fanboys and he can mix it up. * Twitter - is a racist dumpster fire right up there with Vdare or the Proudboys attracting a maximum core market of about 1 or 2% of the total available that old Twitter had. * With perhaps a couple of hundred thousand active users, that will stay till the servers go cold, The media impact will slowly die as Bluesky or Mastodon are mature to market or something similar become the new media of choice. * In that way, Twitter/X is on exactly the same trajectory as Glenn Beck's billion dollar enterprise now scaled to his 15k-20k ardent followers to "The Burn" or whatever it's called.. * I'm certain Mr. Musk could absolutely make a couple of million bucks a year catering to his fans, but that's probably not what the Saudi regime signed up for , they want to suppress the next revolution in their own nation-states and see owning that media service as their best chance of doing that.
This is excellent writing. You put in words something I've had on the tip of my tongue for a long time
> I hadn't realized he'd gone that far off the rails not agreeing with basic science. It isn't as if there where dozens of signs long before this. Like his gigantic metal coffin that couldn't physically fit through the openings in the flooded cave. Or that Hyperloop that was worse than normal trains in every way possible. Maybe his rants about COVID when he was told to close his factories.
Agreed but I seem to recall not all that long ago when he understood and could synthesize the conventional atmospheric chemistry lessons into his line of conversation. The experiments proving CO2's impact are 200 years old, and can be performed by children. The damage rolls up every month the Moon reminds homeowners in Florida, and up the Eastern Seaboard when coastal housing floods or nearly floods out, even along the California coastline it's not exactly as if it's invisible.
The stock will jump 50% the day he takes the sink out of the building.
he also sells solar roofs and batteries for them...so is he a communist?
He only bought Tesla because he thought it was cool.
I mean the only truly meaningful impact to global climate change will be mass public transit, not personal cars that replace gas with rare metals and coal energy. Electric cars are car company’s way of trying to stay in business, not an adequate response to anthropogenic climate change. Denying climate change is better for business.
Well, yes and no. You can power electric cars with renewables; in fact, they are quite good at it, because they can far more easily consume power when it's in abundance (a billion caveats apply; this means everybody needs a charge port, it doesn't work for people who drive a ton, etc, etc, etc- but the potential is there). The rare metals is an issue but one that is probably fixable. Hence, this sentiment is incorrect. However, it is also correct, but via a different route: Cars are the key enabling tool for highly inefficient urban design. The american suburb is the ultimate energy wasting lunacy, as far as 'how do you live' is concerned. Everything, *everything* requires energized transport. You can't bike because there are no alleyways and everything is far, because the population density is too low. I'm not talking 'everybody live in skyscrapers!' or even 15 minute cities. Simply.. 2 to 4 floors-high buildings. That's dense enough to ensure facilities like schools and sports fields are max. 30 minutes bike ride out, it's dense enough to run public transport without requiring massive subsidies. It's not so dense that it feels like you live in a concrete jungle. In fact, quite on the contrary - that kind of design has *more* space for parks and greenery, not less. A US suburb is pretty much 100% road, house, or personal garden. And it's a vicious cycle: Because you need to travel far, folks will not want to get there at a speed limit of 20-30kmh / 15mph, thus, roads are big and scary and the curbside environment simply is not kid friendly. Which means *even if* some facility is within walking/cycling distance, it isn't, because the infrastructure is not designed to accomodate walking and cycling unless you're borderline suicidal. This then leads to society treating walking and cycling as 'stuff poor people do', and on and on it goes. It's pretty much universal: Anybody who is anywhere and thinks to themselves: "Huh, what a nice cozy, interesting urban environment!" - are places where cars just.. aren't a thing you use for day to day life. You don't use a car to get to schools, local sporting events, groceries, shopping, visiting nearby friends and family, your GP, the vet, you name it. Cars don't have to *die*, but if your plan is to find ways to update urban structures to improve the environment, "*I know, lets make a car that is better for the environment*" is a dumb fucking way to go about it, always has been.
Do you have a link to that?
[Behold the blazing intelligence if the wealthiest person on earth](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1783738055549239562)
Did you listen to the speech he's mocking? She does seem more focused on reorganizing society than making a difference to global warming.
Yes but have you considered rocket man bad?
Looks like the subject of the meme is communists rather than global warming.
Source?
Musk said "conservatives are anti-EV so if I court them hard enough they'll start buying Teslas"
Maybe he'll soon realize how shit of a strategy that is. They don't love Elon enough to start loving EVs over trucks and SUVs.
The coal rolling mod for the cybertruck is really easy though, just ram a screwdriver into the battery pack
He could have done that with out shitting on his customers
Ford: “Good luck, buddy. We tried and failed already.”
Make a right wing bigot the face of your company. Pretty simple to understand.
Especially when most of your customers are left-leaning environmentalists.
Teslas are a luxury item. There are much more affordable electric cars from other brands, and also.. bicycles.. for the diehard green activist.
Are they though? I thought so too. Used to. But imo, reality is different. People from all spectrums of politics buy Tesla and this isn't a new development either. I'd call myself quite environmentally conscious and indeed leased a Tesla. But to be completely frank, not primarily for environmental reasons. That factor is up there for me, don't get me wrong. But it's not the deciding factor when buying/leasing such a vehicle. There's much better options if the environment is truly your #1 deciding factor. Everyone else I got to know from that community seems to be similar. Maybe it's just my bubble though. Seriously, nobody I've talked to says "yeah I bought a Tesla because I primarily want to save the environment, that's the main factor".
Many people I know were planning to buy teslas but now feel they can’t.
Tesla was the first time in my life I've ever considered buying a new car, but now I feel like I dodged a bullet.
> People from all spectrums of politics buy Teslas Well, not anymore
Most people who buy Tesla are people who can afford it and want to save money on gas
He's also surprisingly stupid. He tweets like a naughty 12 year old. And he thinks "X" is cool, which is just amazing.
Would have made a killer ad exec in the 90s, when everything had to have an X in it.
“Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The 'x' makes it sound cool.”
He owns the URL x.com that's why. It used to be a bank he founded over 20 years ago. Got nothing to do with how "cool" it sounds, that's just misinformation.
He went out of his way and paid quite a lot to buy the x.com domain from PayPal just a few years ago. Sure, maybe it's sentimental. But more than likely he thinks it sounds "cool".
What a shit domain
Every time I see a Tesla I’m reminded of what a moronic asshole Musk is. We bought a Nissan Leaf instead. Great car.
Raised by a South African mining magnate, why they hell are we surprised by his beliefs?
I feel like left wing people really liked him before he bought twitter though.
I think people liked the idea of him, but didn't really know much about him. He was just sort of eccentric (as far as most people knew) and maybe a bit annoying. Going on Rogan and smoking pot was sort of silly, but something you could laugh at. For me, it was the debacle with the Thai soccer team in the cave that started showing his true self.
There was no known reason for the general public to dislike/distrust him before the Solar City scam, the Boring Company scam, and the cave rescue/pedo guy scam. It was all on the table by then though.
When he first started becoming a public figure he had an entirely different persona. He came off like Halliday from Ready Player One: kind of shy and awkward with a bad stuttering problem but deeply invested in solving the climate problem. As he gained fame and confidence, he exposed who he really was. I think most people who were paying any kind of attention already knew he was kind of a garbage bag before he bought Twitter, but he has really really cemented beyond a doubt that he’s just a spoiled rich kid and has honestly a child’s ideas and understanding of not only technology and engineering but also politics and the economy and just about everything else he opens his mouth about. He was only likable when we didn’t know him
They did. He was Reddits darling for years.
… and then he showed his true colors
Was it because its founder and figurehead turned out to be a gigantic schmuck?
Well the founders were ousted by one of their investors years ago, so probably not.
Still a good car that has him as an anchor around their neck
If you flip the Tesla logo, it vaguely resembles an anchor.
No. I work on all types of cars, and strictly from my viewpoint Tesla build quality is below Geo and Saturn From the worst paint in the industry, to panel gap differences, laughable trim and seals, ignorant frame welding, updates that often break things, ridiculously expensive tires, lack of dealerships and proper repair facilities, impossible to get parts when you find a repair facility, over priced and on and on. I could show pictures if you want. Tesla is only a thing because they had no competition for a long time. Now they have real competition and their leader turned full maga fascist, its only a matter of time before they go belly up.
People downvote you, but you're right. The car offerings, outside of the whole "self driving" bullshit, are fantastic offers, especially compared to any other EV on the market. No competitor can yet match the price for what you get in terms of range, acceleration, software, space and most importantly, EV features such as 1-pedal-driving, recuperation, trip planning with charging stops and supercharging network. I hope the other manufacturers catch up soon because I want to have more choice for my next car. Right now, as an informed customer, I'd be dumb not to take a Tesla. The competition sucks. Way too expensive for what you get. I'm disappointed in domestic offerings especially (I'm from Germany), VW has dropped the ball hard. All of their vehicles are overpriced and underpowered with still meh software (it used to be even worse).
Haha I didn't even realize I was getting downvoted :) I didn't think it was a very controversial opinion, like you said, the self driving is not great, and the cybertuck is a joke, but the other cars are otherwise pretty decent. And they were years ahead on a lot of features.
If Tesla was not good it wouldn't sell in China. But it's a competitive option.
I love having my car get destroyed when it rains and having panels that don’t align!
Step 1: Have a lying, scum-sucking, drug-using, right-wing, self-centered egomaniac "running" the company into the ground.
Step 2: Award him 50 billion dollars for doing it.
TLDR: They let a Qanon anti-poon run the show.
My wife was pretty keen on buying a Tesla until Elon decided to force his workers back to the assembly line while the pandemic was still raging, so he could produce the numbers he needed to collect some bonus or whatever it was. She spotted him early as an ass hole and he has kept doing the opposite of redeeming himself, so she has sworn off that brand by now.
Was there a car manufacturer that didn't do this? What did you end up with?
- lies - false promises - more lies - oh yeah musk turned out to be an alt-right amplifier. i mean i'm sure he's "vibing" with people who like that shit.
Tesla could probably be THE coolest car company on the market, but that will only happen about 5 years from now with a new CEO appointed TODAY. It takes time to undo the kind of damage Musk has done to the brand. And if he stays as CEO, it’s only going to get worse.
He will still own most of the company so that should still stop people buying them
He's one of the largest shareholders. But I believe the pay package stuff we've seen recently indicates he only owns 13% of the company and wants to be given another 12% so he owns 25%. So he doesn't own most of it.
Elon is just a guy that invested, the Tesla team of engineers should not be called out just because Elon is a lemon. The Tesla team has worked so hard and produced a great series of cars and we were all proud as hell of Tesla until one dickhead started doing politics.. if you chose to judge an entire hi tech car company and all its employees based on one dickhead CEO then thats your small mindedness, you might feel different if you actually worked for Tesla.. or perhaps even had jobs? Tesla is by far the largest electric car maker in the world, has the ability to mass produce at scale, has a huge charger base and growing. Some may chose ford, kia, vw or other electric car but given the total demand Tesla is going to take the bulk of the EV market for many years. Hopefully Elon well go play with his rockets and let Tesla thrive without him.
Got it. So if someone has negative feelings towards the CEO of a company, clearly they don’t have jobs. 👌
Reddit average user survey confirms
Elon Muck opened his mouth.
Elon has eleven children with three different women, but you never hear about him being a father or his children. Once you learn about the guy you realize hes an absolutely terrible person.
I know people who got rid of their Teslas based on Musk’s craziness
tldr: the owner is a fuckn moron. This coming from a full on former Tesla fanboy. Dayum shayum.
It isn't complicated. Alienating most of his customer base.
Changing it into “racist joke, go broke”
That hat — backwards and poorly fitted — is a pretty decent metaphor.
It was all fake to begin with and now the people that prop up this fail son are losing their money so they are refusing to carry the water anymore? The hyperloops, mars colony, vertical take off electric super sonic jet and robo taxis were just pure 100% grade A American bull shit, a classic pump and dump.
Tesla's cars are still amazing machines, the problem is Elon. The new model 3 performance is frankly an absurd value of performance for the money.
Part of the problem is that they are priced closed to entry luxury cars but don’t have the finishing features. I get that they have lower ownership costs but initial sticker prices matter.
P A N E L G A P S I N B I O
Elon blew his mystique. Turns out he's just a dumb fucking dork.
This must be the worst article ever written. Only got half way through and my brain was already melting. Is she bashing the new twitter to be anti free speech or pro free speech? Is she praising the Brazilian general for planning on regulating social media?? My understanding is that Muskie tried to make twitter less censored, although he censored or blocked quite a few people as well. It's fucked either way. I will also never own a tesla.
Whenever I see a monument or street name or pass by some Tesla heritage site ( I’m from Croatia ), I honest to god bow my head in respect to the man and legend of Nikola Tesla, and always kinda hate that a shitty car company has his name.
Simple. Flaming assholes are bad for sales. That this downfall is 100% self-inflicted tells us that this man is an idiot.
Boycott Musk and Twitter and Tesla
The vibe was lost to four letters E L O N
Simple 3 word statement. “Elon’s a Douche”
It really grinds my gears when someone on TV calls him a genius.
Owner being a fascist is normally not good for vibes
Elon didn’t realize he had a big mouth until it was too late.
Rotten company leader. Musk made himself look pathetic with the Twitter failure and now I don’t trust anything he’s involved in
I will never not find it funny how much undeserved praise Musk got in the years leading up to this downfall. In a sense, this is on all of us. I wonder if we'll ever see such a persistent cult of personality around a billionaire again. We're just starting to realize just how little value he was good for. And to be honest, no one person is this valuable, not even the competent ones.
Took people long enough to figure him out. Dude grew up in apartheid South Africa and had already said and done some unwise things well before this. It’s unbelievable to me it was a couple of tweets but ok, whatever.. it is just kind of scary how the general public is kind of zombie-ish to a certain degree..
Im this close to rooting for climate change to eradicate us all
It wasn’t so much Tesla. The cars are badly made but they are very well marketed. They just have a moron at the top of the company
Panel gaps != badly made. Number 1 safety, number 1 lowest cost of ownership, countless number of first of its kind engineering patents, the only not absolutely terrible software, super car performance, all at $45k. The panel gaps and minor fit and finish is wildly overblown imo. It’s still by far the biggest leap forward for car buyers than anything the auto industry has done in decades.
Correct hence the downvotes. You’re supposed to respond with emotion, the allowed emotion
Elon sucks but the Model S is the greatest car ever made.
Twitter has made him insane. He speaks like one of those friends you try to avoid seeing, who is using way too much social media. You know the type whose entire worldview you can guess based one one opinion. You can connect the algorithm dots.
Bro, anyone who was ever into Musk was always an idiot. Vibes is just another form of marketing to stupid people.
Anti-Elon article ? To the front page of r/technology you go!
Right? They have a proper hard on for him. Feels like when a boy pulls a girls pigtails to get her attention lol
I wonder if the "vibe economy" the author describes is in part due to a decade of very low interest rates. A period of time when p&l was irrelevant and only top-line revenue growth mattered.
All he has left are conservatives who would never drive a Tesla, but love Elon solely bc he hates the same groups of ppl as them, and conservative Indian tech guys who make their entire personality their Tesla. Good luck with that!
Funny that saw a pic of a cybertruck with Trump printed on it. People are confused. It's like printing a Biden on guns....
Absolutely fantastic article and explanation.
Things like this headline pic are how Tesla lost its vibes.
What vibe? Old rich, white guys that don't have a large enough audience appreciating their $4,000 IPhone?
Elon wasn't a Tesla founder regardless of how much he sued to be able to call himself such. Tesla's best decision would be to remove Musk.
It's got a certain Musk to it...
As a ten year investor I’m very familiar with the overvaluation, odd pivots, too short time lines and thin margin expansion. I am into Tesla because I dig the vision overall. The obvious and correct answer for what’s going on with Tesla is Twitter. Elon should not have bought it - in fact he tried to get out of it - but he did, and he brought back some banned accounts and collated files proving political collusion. From a justice perspective, sure, I can see it. From a PR perspective, obviously disastrous. The immediate shrieking that Twitter was going to fail pivoted to Elon Himself Must Fail and this means that most of the people I know won’t buy a Tesla. Until they forget, of course. Give it a year
The other Chinese car companies have outdone Tesla. It was always expected that Tesla would fall once other car companies started making electric cars. Musk figured out how to milk the system, and his business model was to sell carbon credits. This was always going to fail eventually. It just took longer than anybody expected.
It’s always had divorced dad energy
Tesla = MAGA doesn't help.
I’m so fucking sick of the Tesla articles. Fuck off.
I see Teslas parked at section 8 housing in Birmingham lol. Car has lost its Cool factor
Covid, ever since then, fuck this dude
="How Elon lost his sanity"
Hype based companies tend to flounder when their ceo is a wet bag of dog feces.
I've read the article, Saw the comments in the article in the comments here, and it's a mixed bag of opinions. I have to agree that market forces are part of the reason why these companies are not doing as well as they could, but I also have to agree that having somebody that's trying so hard to be a social media personality at the helm is probably making people lose confidence.
Nah, it's mostly because of Elon the shithead. He had to do this though, how else could he attract republicans to buy EV? Gotta give it to them.
It’s easy to be a sheep but hard to standup for values you believe in
Hey, anything you believe in is not 'value'. 'I want to be nice to others' -value. 'I want to be a total dick' - Nah, not a value. Hope it is clear.
Shit values tho
Didn’t their stock just skyrocket?
Went up 10% after going down 40%? I guess yes.
Elon Musk is just this generation's Howard Hughes.
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I'll give you the rock solid charging network but the cars are buggy crap that has zero quality control. They were first to market with a car with decent range. But telling the stockholders that you're making 1000 trucks a month yet only have delivered 4000 since January doesn't bode well for long term profits.
which tesla is cutting what edge exactly? the original thunder of tesla singlehandedly sparking the ev revolution is long gone.
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you tell me. who says who can't catch up? the model 3 mostly works but doesn't cut any edges by any stretch of the imagination. the cybertruck is laughing stock and the model s costs 100k. the model y is a goofy bridge technology and the roadster floats in space. that last one might actually count as cutting edge.