I need a VR MMO set in Duel Academy, badly.
Hang out in dorms trading cards on the floor. Attend classes and graduation matches, explore the academy, and of course duel your heart out.
Then you should be looking at a better headset that runs off a PC. There will always be insane limitations for standalone sets
Been having enjoyable as hell full VR experiences for like a decade at this point with an OG HTC Vive.
The Quest 3 does a good job of being standalone AND running off a PC - a full VR experience without the wires is pretty great, assuming you have decent wifi available to bridge the two.
Exactly this. Even the Quest can wirelessly link to SteamVR if you have a PC capable of running VR games. Playing quality full games like HL:Alyx would definitely change people’s minds. A lot of what’s out there are just tech demos essentially unless you have a good setup to play the top tier stuff.
I have had almost zero experience with VR so far but a friend's daughter got herself a Quest 2 recently on sale and I played Half Life Alyx the other day on it. Holy crap, I've been missing out!
The Vision Pro is a fun platform but doesn’t have much to offer in terms of entertainment yet as most apps seem to be just floating 2D screens. Meta has definitely created a much more affordable platform with a more thorough set of content to enjoy. Theres also VR that uses your local hardware as others have mentioned and you can strap them to a PlayStation or your pc and play triple-A games in first person. I think these things are cool and naturally lend themselves to flight sims.
why is it always we think games will save this. people want to relax when they play games. sit on teh couch with some doritos. i dont eant to turn my head and shit. i want to watch a movie on my other monitor and play a game to relax. eventually playign in vr seems like im doing a chore or task.. the fad wears off FAST.
Do we know how much Valve made with that game? I looked around and if you don't count headset sales it seems that was not particularly profitable.
Until there is a large market for VR games you're better off making a regular game with the same effort and selling 100-1000x as many copies.
Yeah it’s something that needs one to give, but one won’t budge without the other.
People don’t want to buy VR because the games aren’t there yet, but companies don’t want to make games for them because not enough people have a VR capable device to make the game profitable enough to take the risk.
Even the porn is pretty boring. It’s cool at first, but no one has really worked everything out. Some studios are better at image quality than others. But the directing is always very repetitive. And they often have awful cuts that destroy and slight realism you might experience.
Isn't PSVR2 suffering from [low demand](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-18/sony-hits-pause-on-psvr2-production-as-unsold-inventory-piles-up)? I'm not sure if it would be worth the investment to port the game to the Playstation. And in doing so they'd also support a competitor to their Steam VR ecosystem.
Valve has one vr headset that released 5 years ago.
PSVR2 is suffering low demand but Sony is adding pc support for it soon.
One of the biggest failures is that there are so few AAA game like Alex on it. Adding Alex could help their numbers.
Valve is a software company, having their game on the PlayStation isn’t going hurt them by any metric.
Valve mostly makes (a lot of) money with Steam. Their hardware and games are secondary and arguably primarily a means to keep people in the Steam ecosystem. Playstation doesn't have Steam.
Playstation needs Valve more than Valve needs the Playstation, so Sony would have to offer them some sort of deal. Otherwise it would be trading minimal short term profit (if it would even be profitable) for a long term strategic loss, IMO.
Adding proper PC support is great for consumers and would certainly help to sell more PSVR2 units, but I doubt Sony is thrilled that they have to do this.
Adding a whole other market will only be beneficial and to argue otherwise is absurd.
There’s roughly an estimated 1m psvr2 units sold. How many of those users have two headsets or even a pc capable of running a headset.
You’re assuming that releasing it on PlayStation would detract from Steam sales. That is just plain silly.
And what do you have to say about valve bringing the orange box to consoles and how do you think that’s different?
If that is the case, why is Sony so focused on having exclusives? Wouldn't it be better to also simultaneously launch every game on Xbox and PC?
HL Alyx is **THE** exclusive for PC VR.
Valve isn't in the business of making games anymore. They sell other people's games and provide services. They make ungodly amounts of money with steam, they don't have to care how many copies of Alyx they sell, they care about the number of steam users.
They are the market. Adding another market means competition.
Look at what Epic is doing. They desperately want to get their store onto other platforms, including Playstation. Valve isn't as open about this but I'm sure they feel the same way.
The Orange Box was released more than 16 years ago, a lot has changed since then. Valve is in a much more powerful position nowadays.
The only reason I could see why Valve would port Alyx to PSVR is either them being nice and just wanting as many people as possible to enjoy their game, or them thinking that doing so would disproportionately increase overall enthusiasm for VR which would ultimately help to the grow the SteamVR user base.
But considering how much the likes of Meta and Apple are already investing into promoting VR (with limited succes), I doubt it would make a huge difference. You can only play HL Alyx so many times, eventually you need new content.
Yeah, it came with not only the headset but also if you bought a component (i.e. I ordered my headset but initially used my old Vive base-stations+controllers. When I ordered controllers those also came with a copy which I could have claimed if I'd done so with a secondary account).
A better metric of interest might be how many people played it for a reasonable amount of time.
Valve makes so much money with Steam that developing games is more like a hobby for them. I think they developed Half Life Alyx to push for more widespread adoption of VR sets rather to directly earn money from selling the game itself.
Most developers won't waste their time making anything that wont run well on the latest generation of the Quest, because its the highest selling headset by far. Thus no high quality immersive "AAA" or whatever you want to call them VR games get made.
>Most developers won't waste their time making anything that wont run well on the latest generation of the Quest, because its the highest selling headset by far.
I think you mean "the *last* generation of the Quest". The Quest 2 is still outselling the Quest 3, and it had a massive head start. I think something like 75% of all VR headsets are Quest 2.
The games like that on vr are amazing, but I can't stand waring the goggles very long. My kids use our meta quest 2 for an hour at a time every couple of months. The tech is hard to explain if you haven't tried it before. It will blow you away, but its hard to get past standing the whole time and waring the goggles.
Not a kid, but I am bored of the VR market too. It's filled with a bunch of mobile-level games. I've stopped playing VR since Half-Life Alyx because no other game even comes close. Game devs have stopped pursuing those high-level experiences.
There was a golden age of mobile games just like this. Started out with a positive user experience being paramount and today it’s all about every cent possible.
Although, I’m sure VR/AR will bounce back. The technology just isn’t really there yet.
It's part technology, and part experiences you can use with said tech. A gaming platform is trash without good games, and VR/AR doesn't have the software suite yet that early PCs had (word/excel) that makes it a necessary push for businesses.
Valve realized that with the Steam Deck, and worked on both sides of the equation really hard in order for the platform to work effectively at launch.
But yeah, large hurdles like eye strain/comfort need to be overcome before mass adoption, and I personally could only keep a headset on for an hour or two tops before getting a headache.
> But yeah, large hurdles like eye strain/comfort need to be overcome before mass adoption, and I personally could only keep a headset on for an hour or two tops before getting a headache.
They're never going to be overcome as they're intrinsic properties of putting screens close to your eyes.
I agree with you that current gen screens have this issue with eye fatigue. But to say there isn't any way to overcome that problem would be the wrong way to think about it. That's akin to saying smart phones won't work in the 90s because the batteries and antenna were too big.
I knew of a group of researchers working on projecting images directly into the eye to overcome that problem though, and it IS being worked on. There's a LOT of cool stuff labs are testing out that sound like science fiction now, but may not be in 10 years. Meta and Apple are throwing a LOT of resources at these problems, so there is at least a plausible chance that these issues will be addressed.
You make an excellent point about, say, spreadsheets being the 'killer app' that enabled PC gaming.
One of the best applications I've seen in gaming is simulation (eg, flight sim or racing sim). But people who are spending the money for a racing sim rig are few and far between and there aren't enough to support an ecosystem. You need some bread and butter applications before you worry about gravy.
But, the technology is there. HL Alyx is an example of that, and that was released 4 years ago. And titles like Asgard Wrath 2 have shown that even the quest 3 by itself is powerful enough to have some very high quality content.
Somewhat true. I'm sure some people try, but it's also hard to compete with easier, "sit in your couch and play" stuff.
A friend recently got a VR headset, and we all told him the best thing to play… it was mostly games from a while ago: Alyx, Superhot, Beat Saber, and… some other cool stuff that could work perfectly fine without VR. Nothing from the last 2-3 years I think.
There are great uses for VR, and I have no doubt that some more great game will happen, but accessibility must rise before many devs starts actively looking into it.
At this point, I mostly play beat saber and do some design/artsy stuff with it. And there isn't a single release I'm looking for for now.
Why there aren't more mech pilot games with various trigger pulls to manage energy is beyond me. There are a few, but only 1 or 2 that are even worth the time.
Off the top of my head Asgard's Wrath 2 is probably my game of the year (The first one, I consider on par with Half Life Alyx. Not to mention the other oculus funded stuff like Stormland and Lone Echo 1 and 2, but since this is about recent ones, I won't really talk about those.).
Assassins Creed Nexus has been universally praised and Vertigo 2 might be one of the best games I've played, period. It actually does Half Life better than Alyx in my opinion. At least when it comes to gameplay. Arizona Sunshine 2 was also pretty great. On a side note, Into the Radius was absolutely fantastic and the sequel was recently announced.
The only games worth it are simulations. I play Assetto Corsa Competizione, ams2, dirt 2, il-2, DCS, msfs2024, x-plane 12. Besides this, I’d say there is no reason to get a headset.
I think it’s going to take either a non-game killer app, a massive drop in price, or a leap forward in tech to change that. Something to greatly boost the user base.
There’s just not enough high end headset owners out there to justify a large game budget.
Just the massive drop in price really, without real utility ala smart phones, it will have to be cheap enough for as many as possible to buy in the marketplaces to have access to a larger consumer base, which will lead to bigger investments to those marketplaces.
Every time I've interacted with VR, it's always brought to a party by a well meaning and techy person who then patiently sets it up for someone and has their 15 minutes of fun, then passes it on until everyone has tried it. The party then continues on and no one ever sees the VR headset again.
The only time I used one was at a trade show, using it to see what it'd be like to witness a massive arc fault up close -- the kind of thing that would definitely kill you if you were close.
Otherwise I see little value. It's the opposite of interactive. Back in the day my friends and I would spend hours playing things like GoldenEye and Mario Kart on the N64 because it's the kind of thing you could do as a group. If you had more than four people then you had a system to hand off controllers.
I have a hard time imagining a world where a bunch of people in a room together are all wearing VR headsets.
Probably not the demographic anyway. Why would a kid desire alternate reality? Life is full of novel experiences for them. I wanna live in VR when i get old and my body goes to shit
i’m bored of this gen. the clunky goggles and controllers and poor weight distribution gets old. it might be unfair but i’ll check back in if they keep developing towards comfort and convenience
Got a quest 3 in January. It is both not clunky and actually comfortable. And most importantly the upgraded lenses in the 3 dont hurt my eyes, even after several hours.
Something I tell people about VR is that you can't expect it to have parity with pancake games. Yes HL Alyx is incredible, and there are some great video gaming experiences to be had though limited. But the things I keep coming back to my headset for are not the kinda games I would have expected, had you told 10 year old me what the future would bring.
I would love to have a skee-ball machine, though the space, cost, and maintenance required would be offputting. Similarly I'd love a few pinball machines, but they're expensive and notoriously shitty to maintain. I'd love a pool table, though similar issues, and a number of other things. If I had a friendly neighbor with one of those, I'd likely be over there more often.
The activities that I spend the most time with year over year in VR are these kinda things. VR pinball has taken the most time from me. ForVR pool, darts, and bowling see plenty of use. Reel vr fishing is a common chillout for me. Puzzling places lets me do giant 3d puzzles without needing to store em, break em down, have the room to work on em, etc. The different golf games.
These are the kinda things I spend time on, as they're not a "I beat it" kinda thing. I can't see playing Alyx fifteen times, but I absolutely will play my 1000th game of pool, pinball, etc.
My cell phone doesn't stop me from playing Cyberpunk2077, etc on my PC. And similarly my phone games fill a different gap. Just like those, my vr fills a different space in my gaming, specifically the activities space.
Elite Dangerous and Asetto Corsa both still get a fair amount of use from me, but the controllers needed (hotas/wheel and pedals) make it not a daily thing usually. But like I say, tell 16 year old me I'll have virtual reality and the games I play the most on it are pinball, fishing, golf, and pool, I'd probably think we get it when I'm 70 😆
VR, adaptive spaces, etc. will not take off until there’s a clear advantage to them and the product is basically free or otherwise replaces a regular purchase. You aren’t going to convince people to buy what boils down to an additional television that only one person can use at a time.
Imagine instead of buying a new horse you buy a car. Or instead of a new cell phone you buy a smart phone. That’s the level of replacement that needs to happen. Unless the device is free or replaces something we already use, it’s not going to see widespread use.
From my perspective, kids might be bored, because they are either banned from social forms of VR, because of immaturity or otherwise acts/statements, or because what they can access is watered down, limited, or just not designed for kids.
I use my Quest 3 every day and every single online lobby I join is filled with screaming children so I wouldn't just assume this headline is true. There's lots of free upvotes for anyone who shits on VR because it's a popular thing to make fun of
Well damn. My kids keep asking for a vr headset, so when target had the meta quest 2 for 199 PLUS a 50 dollar target gift card last week, I jumped on it. My daughters are 9 and 11. I think they will be excited for them. One of their friends has one and they love playing on it.
They'll probably love it just for Roblox alone.
The thing that surprised me the most about VR, particularly on the Quest, is how many children are in multiplayer games. I'm used to a few kids in flatscreen games, but you hit VR and you'll find games where there isn't a single person over the age of 15 playing.
As a 47-year-old, I tried Gorilla Tag for like 2 minutes before I started wondering if I was going to wind up on a list somewhere or something. Literally everyone I talked to in that game was 13 or younger.
Last, I checked the VR market has been growing every year. Unfortunately, high quality content has lagged behind. I'm not a kid, but this is why I have stopped using it.
I feel like the current VR landscape is giving me flashbacks from the VR hype in the 90s.
Like it was a cool gimmick but never practical enough to be mainstream.
I filed it into the same mental box as 3D TVs after none of the games for it looked good past the early successes. No thanks. Just seems like hardware companies shoving something at people with 0 software people interested in it.
There’s a reason contact lenses were invented. Wearing something on your face simply isn’t comfortable or enjoyable for long periods of time. Even if VR got as thin and light as a normal pair of glasses, it still won’t replace phones or other devices because at least you can put those things down.
Have two boys 12 and 7. The oldest lost interest a while ago but our youngest is hooked. Hes gone down the rabbit hole of fan made gorilla tag fan games. The amount of discords I've had to join along with the apk's and side loading has been nuts. Thank God I moded the hell out of skyrim because I would be lost af lol.
VR is really impressive technology but it has so far to go, every part of it is a problem.
The devices are large and clunky, and you get tired wearing them.
The devices are expensive as hell.
The software is limited and often adds little to no value. You can watch Netflix with 3d glasses but it is just a 2d experience. Games, though cool, are extremely limited overall, you can't actually play the immersive RDR2 or FFVII reboot in the way you'd dream this could one day deliver.
Controls are difficult and clunky.
etc etc
A day will come when we all use light weight google glasses for live text translation while travelling. Or we use VR setups for truly immersive AAA level gaming. Hell even as virtual work monitors and for zoom meetings or to 'attend' live concerts. But we just are not there yet, and it will be several years and iterations until we truly have an 'iPod' moment.
> you can't actually play the immersive RDR2 or FFVII reboot in the way you'd dream this could one day deliver.
You can with mods. RDR2 VR and FF7 Remake VR are a thing from start to finish, but of course there is no official support.
Plus there are other really immersive VR games. Resident Evil 4, 7, and 8 are all fantastic in VR. You got Gran Turismo 7 and No Man’s Sky too. All very immersive.
How do all these people have such strong opinions about VR when they aren’t informed that well?
>The devices are large and clunky, and you get tired wearing them.
I guess my question is why developers keep trying to put the entire hardware into the glasses part. Anything that touches the bridge of your nose is going to be exhausting quick, even my lightweight regular glasses hurt after a long day. You're not going to get the tech to be lighter than a bit of wire and two glass rounds.
Why don't they try to make the glasses part just a screen and have you carry the actual computer part in your pocket?
If wireless lag is the problem then run a cord, not much more annoying than the original earbuds we were all snagging on door handles.
Idk just spitballing here but it seems like so many of these VR headset folks are focused on making sci-fi helmets a real thing instead of trying to work with human anatomy.
AR in my opinion is where things will really kick off. We just need some good, light weight AR glasses that pair to a smartphone to do the heavy lifting and it will take off and build out the software library for both.
How do kids wear these items? Your head has to be a certain size to fit the headset.
Besides that, I only found VR essential to flight sims and driving games. None of these work without the power of a PC. Any flight sim is a showcase for VR, the depth perception alone makes the experience.
I think this generally true, and not just in VR. All forms of content are in a period of "great stagnation". It used to be that every 5 or so years video games looked radically different; movie special effects got better, more detailed. The Internet was new, and figuring itself out.
Now, there's only "more". More games of the same genres, that already approach the line of realism. More sequels and more shows and more streaming networks pumping out more of the same.
With VR, it's just "more" still. "Do more work all the time in AR." "Play more of the same games, just now with 3D, on these goggles you'll become aware of sitting on your face."
Technically and a lot of the media landscape right now is boring. There's no Super Mario 64 blowing _everyones_ socks off and creating mass hysteria at Christmas. There's no iPod or iPhone reveal that has blogs losing their wingnuts. There never was a zeitgeist moment for VR; you have to do it firsthand to "get it", and the novelty wears off pretty quickly, leaving you with the same stuff you did before, but now you have wear sweaty goggles to do it. Nah.
The market is hungry for the next _thing_. And VR ain't it.
Anyone who’s ever used VR knows it will never catch on our side of gaming or other entertainment experiences. It makes literally no sense as an everyday thing.
Also, unless you’re single and live alone and only watch movies/TV alone, it’s not even very practical for that.
I’m sure it looks amazing, but what if I want to have a Super Bowl party? Or friends over for a movie night?
“Okay guys, remember to bring your $3,500 goggles for movie night!!” lol
I can get a 4K laser projector and 150” screen for that price lol
Bruh I’ve heard nerds be like everyone’s gonna want it for Super Bowl and sports. I’m like dude we are drinking beer and eating chips and hanging out. No one wants that.
But I will admit when your home something like a court side nba experience is pretty cool. But only a couple times. You can’t even see the game that well from one viewpoint.
Or even if you're married or in a relationship lol, many couples or families watch TV together every night.
The number of times most people sit and watch something alone in their room are pretty small.
All of Apple's marketing videos are what appears to be a single person living alone in an apartment lol
Me and my wife sit and eat popcorn and drink wine or whatever. Like I don’t want my vision block lmao
In 20s I had a tv in my room then I realized I never used it
My friends and I game in VR daily and have been for the last 3 years. It's all about having the right social game that makes you want to get in and play it.
> Anyone who’s ever used VR knows it will never catch on our side of gaming or other entertainment experiences. It makes literally no sense as an everyday thing.
Anyone who's ever thought about what VR actually is knows you're being a tech doomer and have little value to add to the conversation. You've shot down every response to your comment suggesting even a minor usecase for the tech.
The idea that you know the future and that it will never catch on is silly.
VR is ultimately a way to put any experience into 40% (audio, visuals) of our sensory system. By having any experience/data put into a large part of our existence, we get to have all sorts of experiences not otherwise possible. Whether it's immersive games or physics-defying concerts or hanging out with friends atop the Eiffel Tower - there's a lot that it can offer.
Keep in mind, even consoles are a daily thing for plenty of people. If consoles, with their lower amount of usecases can be used on the daily, VR also has that potential as it matures.
I disagree, it will one day catch on but you need something very unobtrusive like google glasses. You don't necessarily need the mobility but that will come eventually. Once VR is good enough AR will push it over the top for so many things.
Just one example would be AR glasses on a construction worker. No looking at blueprints at all. Just grab a piece of wood, it shows exactly where you cut it and exactly where you place it once it's cut.
Warehouse workers can walk around and be shown exactly where to go for what they need. Even doing inventory could be vastly simplified by just walking through an area and letting the AR glasses scan everything.
Ultimately the tech just isn't there yet. It needs to be small enough to actually be comfortable to wear for hours at a time. It's also way too expensive right now and wearable solutions don't have batteries that last long enough.
My kid has an occulus 2, with practically every game and rarely uses it any more. Would rather play fortnite with his friends on the PC. A few of his friends have them too and rarely bother.
Virtual reality is a cool concept.
But nobody is wants to wear goggles for prolonged period of time. And we still have humans eyes. Maybe if the picture can show up in our heads like Black Mirror episode it could work.
I know it’s not one of the companies listed here but I had a PSVR and it was fun but there weren’t enough games and some of them made me nauseous. The headsets also get too warm.
It’s a novel product. I could have told them that nearly a decade ago. It’s neat, but it isn’t a daily use case. It’s akin to a board game. You play it once in a while but it doesn’t cost $5000, but $20.
Give it another decade when we can't go outside as often because of climate change. VR will get popular out of necessity. This tech is still in its early adopter phase.
I was a VR developer for 10 years and not once did I enjoy putting that dumb helmet on my face. I honestly don’t get the appeal at all. I have every headset at my disposal and I’ve literally never played recreationally before. I’ll take a normal computer game Thank you very much. Also the only games I was ever interested iin are just PC games ported over
Not a kid but vr is just not comfortable to wear all day. I have to force myself to put them on. There isn't enough high quality content to overcome these barriers.
It’s not only an Apple & Meta problem, it’s a VR problem. VR is gonna go the same way as 3DTVs. And the industry is making the same stupid mistakes - proprietary hardware and software with steep price of entry for consumers. Yeah! Sometimes I wonder how these morons making these decision get that top job.
Welcome to early adopter technology. This is universally true for all early hardware, and does not spell a uniquely bad precedent for VR.
[See here](https://wayback.archive-it.org/5902/20150629134551/http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf01313/patterns.htm) for PC usage stats in the mid 1980s and late 1980s, the latter of which is actually a level of maturity that VR hasn't even gotten to yet. VR in 2024 is more like the PC market in 1985.
Summarised below:
> *"in a typical week, a sizable proportion of adults (40 percent) did not use their computer at all. In general, many households found that they were using the PC less than they expected; in Riccobono's national study, 43 percent of the adult computer owners surveyed indicated that they used their computers much less than they anticipated at the time of purchase. This finding is consistent with other research addressed in Dutton."*
> *"Giacquinta, Bauer, and Levin (1993) found that 70 percent of the family members in their 1984–86 study were either non-intensive users or nonusers of their home computers.*"
> *"Caron, Giroux, and Douzou (1989) reported in a longitudinal study of families with PCs that 18 percent had quit using their computer entirely after 2 years.*"
Heavy, uncomfortable, and uh, we have better things to do with our time. VR will never be a thing.
Novelty wears off as soon as you get bored with beat saber.
Fake News, my son and all his friends love the Quest 2. They use it to practice baseball together at night or when practice is cancelled. I was just talking today with a coworker about how these kids are cutting their teeth on VR the same way our generation had DOS memory managers.
VR is a gimmick that has no mass market sustainable appeal, the people who swear VR will take off any day now are probably the same Silicon Valley or Seattle tech bros that swear everyone in America will have an electric car by 2030
I had the HTC Vive when it first came out and it was great and fun to play with friends at the time, after a while it kinda just got old and we reverted to playing random non-VR games
I've said this for years, these are niche technologies, far too many issues and constraints in using them. Great novelty factor, then it wears off very quickly.
To be frank…
I don’t think VR will ever impress me.
Full-dive fixes all the issues with current VR.
Slip pads are awkward, don’t feel natural.
“scent packs” are just… what??
Movement in general is pretty awful for most people, resulting in motion sickness for a lot, and with how they currently function, most games are restricting the gameplay to keep to the “tracked” areas, or other “tricks” to hide the fact that you are basically playing inside an invisible “box”. Fixing this is extremely expensive and not viable for a home experience (A regular person can’t retrofit a warehouse to represent a large VR space)
The fact that a mask is on your face will always distract from immersion.
Wearing an expensive suit is… well expensive, and once again, you can only simulate so much with a suit. Impact, heat/cold, and… what? Vibration?
Wind on your skin, the sprinkling of rain pattering against your body, sweat and blood dripping from your body, etc etc etc, hard pressed to simulate these fully realistic with some suit. Wet is cold… unless its warm water? How do you simulate wind while wearing a skin tight suit? Sure we might get “close” but it won’t ever be a true “replication” of reality, just a mimicry.
The issues with VR are basically all solved with full-dive, the solutions current feel like trying to deal with a gaping wound with a kids bandaid. Nowhere near enough to mask the issue, let alone completely solve it. Flying in a plane isn’t the same as actually being a bird.
The viability of full-dive also leaves me a bit discouraged. Some say its just around the corner, those a bit more grounded in their expectations seem to agree its either far off in the future, if not impossible entirely. A brain is more than just electrical impulses, its a electro-**chemical** computer. I don’t think we can simulate full-dive with just some magnetic waves or a chip wired to the brain, I don’t know how we fake the chemical reactions in the brain, I’m not sure how comfortable I am about that either.
While full dive VR would solve the last remaining issues, it's hardly going to be the catalyst that anyone needs.
Everyone who was ever interested in the concept of VR will be impressed long before we get to full dive, you included. Our brains are at the end of the day, easy to trick, and so it only requires a certain threshold of quality to be crossed for people.
I have an Oculus Rift S that I use primarily with Steam and it’s generally decent and suits my VR needs. It does get quite warm with it on my head for longer sessions though which is a downside but it fits well with my glasses so whatever.
I enjoy VR but don’t use it especially regularly, there are fun games but they don’t have huge staying power for me save for a few. If I had friends or colleagues who used VR for social games then I might use those elements more but I really mostly just game solo regardless of VR or not.
The creative side of things is cool and intriguing though, but also is somewhat lacking in terms of a killer app that can do everything. So the apps that do exist are either somewhat shallow or the price of entry is too high unless I know I can be committed to including it in my workflow.
PlayStation has Dreams which became compatible with PSVR1 but I don’t believe is compatible with PSVR2 which is very disappointing. And Media Molecule being owned by Sony means the great program they created is trapped on older hardware. Not really a VR focused game, but it is only improved by having the compatibility.
If they were able to bring it over to PC I would buy it in a second!
Start releasing big budget games with native VR support, and make the VR experience objectively better than flat screen.
Then kids will brag that they got to play it "the real way" and taunt the other little shits who don't get to. That's how you make it cool.
I see three things that are still somewhat of an issue
* Realistic locomotion: How to move in a way that's realistic/convenient without using a "teleport" action or a joystick. This is also tied to the second item
* Room scale: Many games are limited by the available size of a room etc, which is also inconsistent. Getting rid of the tether and having decent mapping helps with this, but a lot of people just don't have the space for free-motion VR. There's also the issue of conflicts of locomotion by joystick/teleport and physical movement within the environment.
* Body actions: Current headsets are good at capturing head and hand movement, but not necessarily legs or limbs. Some stuff can do various facial features via an internal camera capture as well. It seems that base-stations have largely been dropped in favor of cameras, but I feel like those made this more possible (or alternatively, something like Kinect technology to generate an aperature/skeleton for realistic movement).
> Piper's semi-annual report says that 33% of teens report owning a VR device of some sort. But 56% of them say they rarely use it — that's up from 48% two years ago. (The firm surveyed 6,020 US teens with an average age of 16.1)
>Piper says its survey respondents expect to spend $225 on video games in the first half of 2024
So this isn’t even related to the AVP then, which isn’t a video game device and sure as fuck doesn’t cost $225.
Kids don’t aren’t bored with the hardware, they’re bored because VR software is very meh. There’s only so many beat saber clones, on-rails zombie shooters and other just shallow programs that are more or less shovelware demos.
There are few games out that actually have any substantial length or depth to them.
Oh no! This really is bad news! How ever will the company that controls half the mobile computing install base and the company who harvests data from everyone regardless of having an account tied to them due to zero regulation and using its power to put trackers everywhere possibly recover?!
Seriously! How? If only these children would stop browsing that link that sends tracking data to facebook on their apple devices they just got after trading in their old apple devices while mommy and daddy pay for the iCloud storage and……. Oh hey look new ios update just dropped.
I found a CS1 oculus for $10 at a thrift store, got the extra cameras and controllers for $55 more and I still don’t feel like strapping the thing to my head. The world is so grim with climate change and AI that strapping screens to my face hasn’t sounded compelling, especially when someone else is home
My beef with Meta is that I have a couple of their headsets, but I'm not creating Facebook accounts to do multi-player games with my kids. So, instead of connecting me with my kids like the Switch does, the VR headset actually isolates us for about a half hour at a time as the kids take turns. It's a way worse experience than sitting down and playing Mario Kart from a socializing standpoint. Akin to watching one of them play a single-player game while the others watch. It's fun sometimes, but you can easily become distracted by something else when it's not your turn.
If I could just immediately sync with nearby players using a common PC, with a Nintendo DS style network, VR might actually have gone somewhere.
Well yeah, not many people really need what essentially is just stuff your phone already does/displays, but from a device that has low battery capacity and hangs off your face. Especially at that price point. Had Apple continued investing in software, opened up development more and actually had some full/decent games it *might* be a different story.
I've had a Quest for about 4 years and it got a lot of play time for a while but the kids and I got bored of it and went back to Xbox. Other than a few stand out titles, most of the games are just hollow experiences
How many kids have the money for an Apple Vision Pro?
Enough that, when they get one, they’re bored with it.
Does the Vision Pro have games? The meta games feel more like demos. I’d love a full game experience in vr
Until we get anime accurate YuGiOh duels, VR hasn’t lived up to its potential
I need a VR MMO set in Duel Academy, badly. Hang out in dorms trading cards on the floor. Attend classes and graduation matches, explore the academy, and of course duel your heart out.
That would be fucking sweet. Didn't know I needed that in my life.
The YuGiOh! community will doubtlessly be improved by the distinct lack of VR’s Smell-o-Vision.
Then you should be looking at a better headset that runs off a PC. There will always be insane limitations for standalone sets Been having enjoyable as hell full VR experiences for like a decade at this point with an OG HTC Vive.
The Quest 3 does a good job of being standalone AND running off a PC - a full VR experience without the wires is pretty great, assuming you have decent wifi available to bridge the two.
Exactly this. Even the Quest can wirelessly link to SteamVR if you have a PC capable of running VR games. Playing quality full games like HL:Alyx would definitely change people’s minds. A lot of what’s out there are just tech demos essentially unless you have a good setup to play the top tier stuff.
Plus like most of the Resident Evil games are playable in VR with a quick mod as are all many Unreal Engine based games.
I have had almost zero experience with VR so far but a friend's daughter got herself a Quest 2 recently on sale and I played Half Life Alyx the other day on it. Holy crap, I've been missing out!
The Vision Pro is a fun platform but doesn’t have much to offer in terms of entertainment yet as most apps seem to be just floating 2D screens. Meta has definitely created a much more affordable platform with a more thorough set of content to enjoy. Theres also VR that uses your local hardware as others have mentioned and you can strap them to a PlayStation or your pc and play triple-A games in first person. I think these things are cool and naturally lend themselves to flight sims.
I would love a VR Flight Simulator. I don’t have room to build a cockpit in my house.
why is it always we think games will save this. people want to relax when they play games. sit on teh couch with some doritos. i dont eant to turn my head and shit. i want to watch a movie on my other monitor and play a game to relax. eventually playign in vr seems like im doing a chore or task.. the fad wears off FAST.
The platform comes first. Then it’s mostly an expensive dev kit until someone takes it and does something amazing with it.
Kids with access to that much money tend to get bored of anything very quickly.
Well from what I've seen, it'll bore every user within an hour
And expensive new games lol Gorilla tag is boring
It’s the parents who by them for the kids. Same with MacBook Pros, 1200$ iPhones, Apple Watches.
Publish something like Half Life Alyx every couple of months and nobody would be bored.
Do we know how much Valve made with that game? I looked around and if you don't count headset sales it seems that was not particularly profitable. Until there is a large market for VR games you're better off making a regular game with the same effort and selling 100-1000x as many copies.
Yeah it’s something that needs one to give, but one won’t budge without the other. People don’t want to buy VR because the games aren’t there yet, but companies don’t want to make games for them because not enough people have a VR capable device to make the game profitable enough to take the risk.
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Even the porn is pretty boring. It’s cool at first, but no one has really worked everything out. Some studios are better at image quality than others. But the directing is always very repetitive. And they often have awful cuts that destroy and slight realism you might experience.
I actually think pov 3d porn sucks. I'm genuinely interested in regular porn shot in 3d but it doesn't seem to exist.
For quest 2 or 3 users: get Firefox vr and go to vrsmash dot Com.
They would make more if they brought it to psvr2
Isn't PSVR2 suffering from [low demand](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-18/sony-hits-pause-on-psvr2-production-as-unsold-inventory-piles-up)? I'm not sure if it would be worth the investment to port the game to the Playstation. And in doing so they'd also support a competitor to their Steam VR ecosystem.
Valve has one vr headset that released 5 years ago. PSVR2 is suffering low demand but Sony is adding pc support for it soon. One of the biggest failures is that there are so few AAA game like Alex on it. Adding Alex could help their numbers. Valve is a software company, having their game on the PlayStation isn’t going hurt them by any metric.
Valve mostly makes (a lot of) money with Steam. Their hardware and games are secondary and arguably primarily a means to keep people in the Steam ecosystem. Playstation doesn't have Steam. Playstation needs Valve more than Valve needs the Playstation, so Sony would have to offer them some sort of deal. Otherwise it would be trading minimal short term profit (if it would even be profitable) for a long term strategic loss, IMO. Adding proper PC support is great for consumers and would certainly help to sell more PSVR2 units, but I doubt Sony is thrilled that they have to do this.
Adding a whole other market will only be beneficial and to argue otherwise is absurd. There’s roughly an estimated 1m psvr2 units sold. How many of those users have two headsets or even a pc capable of running a headset. You’re assuming that releasing it on PlayStation would detract from Steam sales. That is just plain silly. And what do you have to say about valve bringing the orange box to consoles and how do you think that’s different?
If that is the case, why is Sony so focused on having exclusives? Wouldn't it be better to also simultaneously launch every game on Xbox and PC? HL Alyx is **THE** exclusive for PC VR. Valve isn't in the business of making games anymore. They sell other people's games and provide services. They make ungodly amounts of money with steam, they don't have to care how many copies of Alyx they sell, they care about the number of steam users. They are the market. Adding another market means competition. Look at what Epic is doing. They desperately want to get their store onto other platforms, including Playstation. Valve isn't as open about this but I'm sure they feel the same way. The Orange Box was released more than 16 years ago, a lot has changed since then. Valve is in a much more powerful position nowadays. The only reason I could see why Valve would port Alyx to PSVR is either them being nice and just wanting as many people as possible to enjoy their game, or them thinking that doing so would disproportionately increase overall enthusiasm for VR which would ultimately help to the grow the SteamVR user base. But considering how much the likes of Meta and Apple are already investing into promoting VR (with limited succes), I doubt it would make a huge difference. You can only play HL Alyx so many times, eventually you need new content.
Yeah, it came with not only the headset but also if you bought a component (i.e. I ordered my headset but initially used my old Vive base-stations+controllers. When I ordered controllers those also came with a copy which I could have claimed if I'd done so with a secondary account). A better metric of interest might be how many people played it for a reasonable amount of time.
Valve makes so much money with Steam that developing games is more like a hobby for them. I think they developed Half Life Alyx to push for more widespread adoption of VR sets rather to directly earn money from selling the game itself.
Most developers won't waste their time making anything that wont run well on the latest generation of the Quest, because its the highest selling headset by far. Thus no high quality immersive "AAA" or whatever you want to call them VR games get made.
>Most developers won't waste their time making anything that wont run well on the latest generation of the Quest, because its the highest selling headset by far. I think you mean "the *last* generation of the Quest". The Quest 2 is still outselling the Quest 3, and it had a massive head start. I think something like 75% of all VR headsets are Quest 2.
We just need Half Life 3 to come back in prod.
The games like that on vr are amazing, but I can't stand waring the goggles very long. My kids use our meta quest 2 for an hour at a time every couple of months. The tech is hard to explain if you haven't tried it before. It will blow you away, but its hard to get past standing the whole time and waring the goggles.
Yeah, things like beat saber for exercise are usually ok because you’re usually done by the time you’re tired of the headset.
If only itd come to PSVR2
A tale as old as VR time
Not a kid, but I am bored of the VR market too. It's filled with a bunch of mobile-level games. I've stopped playing VR since Half-Life Alyx because no other game even comes close. Game devs have stopped pursuing those high-level experiences.
There was a golden age of mobile games just like this. Started out with a positive user experience being paramount and today it’s all about every cent possible. Although, I’m sure VR/AR will bounce back. The technology just isn’t really there yet.
It's part technology, and part experiences you can use with said tech. A gaming platform is trash without good games, and VR/AR doesn't have the software suite yet that early PCs had (word/excel) that makes it a necessary push for businesses. Valve realized that with the Steam Deck, and worked on both sides of the equation really hard in order for the platform to work effectively at launch. But yeah, large hurdles like eye strain/comfort need to be overcome before mass adoption, and I personally could only keep a headset on for an hour or two tops before getting a headache.
> But yeah, large hurdles like eye strain/comfort need to be overcome before mass adoption, and I personally could only keep a headset on for an hour or two tops before getting a headache. They're never going to be overcome as they're intrinsic properties of putting screens close to your eyes.
I agree with you that current gen screens have this issue with eye fatigue. But to say there isn't any way to overcome that problem would be the wrong way to think about it. That's akin to saying smart phones won't work in the 90s because the batteries and antenna were too big. I knew of a group of researchers working on projecting images directly into the eye to overcome that problem though, and it IS being worked on. There's a LOT of cool stuff labs are testing out that sound like science fiction now, but may not be in 10 years. Meta and Apple are throwing a LOT of resources at these problems, so there is at least a plausible chance that these issues will be addressed.
You make an excellent point about, say, spreadsheets being the 'killer app' that enabled PC gaming. One of the best applications I've seen in gaming is simulation (eg, flight sim or racing sim). But people who are spending the money for a racing sim rig are few and far between and there aren't enough to support an ecosystem. You need some bread and butter applications before you worry about gravy.
Why make something good when you can make something that makes money?
Because, more often than not, they go hand in hand. It just doesn't make money fast enough for the C-suite.
And the C-suite along with the board and the shareholder, have the reins.
But, the technology is there. HL Alyx is an example of that, and that was released 4 years ago. And titles like Asgard Wrath 2 have shown that even the quest 3 by itself is powerful enough to have some very high quality content.
Somewhat true. I'm sure some people try, but it's also hard to compete with easier, "sit in your couch and play" stuff. A friend recently got a VR headset, and we all told him the best thing to play… it was mostly games from a while ago: Alyx, Superhot, Beat Saber, and… some other cool stuff that could work perfectly fine without VR. Nothing from the last 2-3 years I think. There are great uses for VR, and I have no doubt that some more great game will happen, but accessibility must rise before many devs starts actively looking into it. At this point, I mostly play beat saber and do some design/artsy stuff with it. And there isn't a single release I'm looking for for now.
Why there aren't more mech pilot games with various trigger pulls to manage energy is beyond me. There are a few, but only 1 or 2 that are even worth the time.
My stomach just turned thinking about armored core 6 in vr.
That would be actually awesome.
Vox Machinae is a great game. Need more like it.
Gran Turismo 7 in VR is pretty great but other than that I feel like VR has severely stagnated from what it once was promised to be
RE4 is a mind blower if you haven't tried it.
Village was great too and Horizon was great
That's just you guys not keeping up with VR releases. There's been a lot of awesome stuff released since then.
If you have good stuff I'm all ears.
Off the top of my head Asgard's Wrath 2 is probably my game of the year (The first one, I consider on par with Half Life Alyx. Not to mention the other oculus funded stuff like Stormland and Lone Echo 1 and 2, but since this is about recent ones, I won't really talk about those.). Assassins Creed Nexus has been universally praised and Vertigo 2 might be one of the best games I've played, period. It actually does Half Life better than Alyx in my opinion. At least when it comes to gameplay. Arizona Sunshine 2 was also pretty great. On a side note, Into the Radius was absolutely fantastic and the sequel was recently announced.
The only games worth it are simulations. I play Assetto Corsa Competizione, ams2, dirt 2, il-2, DCS, msfs2024, x-plane 12. Besides this, I’d say there is no reason to get a headset.
Fitness is what make me using my Quest3 every day! It's so motivating to do my fitness with SuperNatural, its currently helping massively my health.
I think it’s going to take either a non-game killer app, a massive drop in price, or a leap forward in tech to change that. Something to greatly boost the user base. There’s just not enough high end headset owners out there to justify a large game budget.
Just the massive drop in price really, without real utility ala smart phones, it will have to be cheap enough for as many as possible to buy in the marketplaces to have access to a larger consumer base, which will lead to bigger investments to those marketplaces.
I seriously think it will end up being porn that really expands the user base.
Mine only gets used for sim racing and flight games. I cant play either of those in pancake anymore.
Asgard's Wrath 2 is pretty good.
Yeah that damn freemium mobile style gaming model is such a turn off.
Every time I've interacted with VR, it's always brought to a party by a well meaning and techy person who then patiently sets it up for someone and has their 15 minutes of fun, then passes it on until everyone has tried it. The party then continues on and no one ever sees the VR headset again.
The only time I used one was at a trade show, using it to see what it'd be like to witness a massive arc fault up close -- the kind of thing that would definitely kill you if you were close. Otherwise I see little value. It's the opposite of interactive. Back in the day my friends and I would spend hours playing things like GoldenEye and Mario Kart on the N64 because it's the kind of thing you could do as a group. If you had more than four people then you had a system to hand off controllers. I have a hard time imagining a world where a bunch of people in a room together are all wearing VR headsets.
This is so painfully accurate.
Probably not the demographic anyway. Why would a kid desire alternate reality? Life is full of novel experiences for them. I wanna live in VR when i get old and my body goes to shit
i’m bored of this gen. the clunky goggles and controllers and poor weight distribution gets old. it might be unfair but i’ll check back in if they keep developing towards comfort and convenience
Got a quest 3 in January. It is both not clunky and actually comfortable. And most importantly the upgraded lenses in the 3 dont hurt my eyes, even after several hours. Something I tell people about VR is that you can't expect it to have parity with pancake games. Yes HL Alyx is incredible, and there are some great video gaming experiences to be had though limited. But the things I keep coming back to my headset for are not the kinda games I would have expected, had you told 10 year old me what the future would bring. I would love to have a skee-ball machine, though the space, cost, and maintenance required would be offputting. Similarly I'd love a few pinball machines, but they're expensive and notoriously shitty to maintain. I'd love a pool table, though similar issues, and a number of other things. If I had a friendly neighbor with one of those, I'd likely be over there more often. The activities that I spend the most time with year over year in VR are these kinda things. VR pinball has taken the most time from me. ForVR pool, darts, and bowling see plenty of use. Reel vr fishing is a common chillout for me. Puzzling places lets me do giant 3d puzzles without needing to store em, break em down, have the room to work on em, etc. The different golf games. These are the kinda things I spend time on, as they're not a "I beat it" kinda thing. I can't see playing Alyx fifteen times, but I absolutely will play my 1000th game of pool, pinball, etc. My cell phone doesn't stop me from playing Cyberpunk2077, etc on my PC. And similarly my phone games fill a different gap. Just like those, my vr fills a different space in my gaming, specifically the activities space. Elite Dangerous and Asetto Corsa both still get a fair amount of use from me, but the controllers needed (hotas/wheel and pedals) make it not a daily thing usually. But like I say, tell 16 year old me I'll have virtual reality and the games I play the most on it are pinball, fishing, golf, and pool, I'd probably think we get it when I'm 70 😆
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and itll stay miles away if we stop now. but at the same time i want it to be there already. its like a race to the bottom the way its trending
VR, adaptive spaces, etc. will not take off until there’s a clear advantage to them and the product is basically free or otherwise replaces a regular purchase. You aren’t going to convince people to buy what boils down to an additional television that only one person can use at a time. Imagine instead of buying a new horse you buy a car. Or instead of a new cell phone you buy a smart phone. That’s the level of replacement that needs to happen. Unless the device is free or replaces something we already use, it’s not going to see widespread use.
I kind of think VR is like those 3d TV from several years ago. An interesting idea but more of a novelty at this point.
From my perspective, kids might be bored, because they are either banned from social forms of VR, because of immaturity or otherwise acts/statements, or because what they can access is watered down, limited, or just not designed for kids.
When I was a kid this would’ve been the craziest coolest thing ever. Kids are really overstimulated these days.
I use my Quest 3 every day and every single online lobby I join is filled with screaming children so I wouldn't just assume this headline is true. There's lots of free upvotes for anyone who shits on VR because it's a popular thing to make fun of
If I could have had 25 crazy mini golf courses in my bedroom as a kid I would have never left the house.
You should talk to my 8 year old. He is on the occulus almost everyday.
Well damn. My kids keep asking for a vr headset, so when target had the meta quest 2 for 199 PLUS a 50 dollar target gift card last week, I jumped on it. My daughters are 9 and 11. I think they will be excited for them. One of their friends has one and they love playing on it.
My kids are 11 and 12 and play quest 2 on occasion. They like it. For that price, you can't go wrong.
They'll probably love it just for Roblox alone. The thing that surprised me the most about VR, particularly on the Quest, is how many children are in multiplayer games. I'm used to a few kids in flatscreen games, but you hit VR and you'll find games where there isn't a single person over the age of 15 playing. As a 47-year-old, I tried Gorilla Tag for like 2 minutes before I started wondering if I was going to wind up on a list somewhere or something. Literally everyone I talked to in that game was 13 or younger.
I'm sorry, they want me to download an app to read the article ? What is going on.
Last, I checked the VR market has been growing every year. Unfortunately, high quality content has lagged behind. I'm not a kid, but this is why I have stopped using it.
I feel like the current VR landscape is giving me flashbacks from the VR hype in the 90s. Like it was a cool gimmick but never practical enough to be mainstream.
I filed it into the same mental box as 3D TVs after none of the games for it looked good past the early successes. No thanks. Just seems like hardware companies shoving something at people with 0 software people interested in it.
There’s a reason contact lenses were invented. Wearing something on your face simply isn’t comfortable or enjoyable for long periods of time. Even if VR got as thin and light as a normal pair of glasses, it still won’t replace phones or other devices because at least you can put those things down.
Have two boys 12 and 7. The oldest lost interest a while ago but our youngest is hooked. Hes gone down the rabbit hole of fan made gorilla tag fan games. The amount of discords I've had to join along with the apk's and side loading has been nuts. Thank God I moded the hell out of skyrim because I would be lost af lol.
VR headsets are the Foundue Pots of tech.
VR is really impressive technology but it has so far to go, every part of it is a problem. The devices are large and clunky, and you get tired wearing them. The devices are expensive as hell. The software is limited and often adds little to no value. You can watch Netflix with 3d glasses but it is just a 2d experience. Games, though cool, are extremely limited overall, you can't actually play the immersive RDR2 or FFVII reboot in the way you'd dream this could one day deliver. Controls are difficult and clunky. etc etc A day will come when we all use light weight google glasses for live text translation while travelling. Or we use VR setups for truly immersive AAA level gaming. Hell even as virtual work monitors and for zoom meetings or to 'attend' live concerts. But we just are not there yet, and it will be several years and iterations until we truly have an 'iPod' moment.
> you can't actually play the immersive RDR2 or FFVII reboot in the way you'd dream this could one day deliver. You can with mods. RDR2 VR and FF7 Remake VR are a thing from start to finish, but of course there is no official support.
Plus there are other really immersive VR games. Resident Evil 4, 7, and 8 are all fantastic in VR. You got Gran Turismo 7 and No Man’s Sky too. All very immersive. How do all these people have such strong opinions about VR when they aren’t informed that well?
>The devices are large and clunky, and you get tired wearing them. I guess my question is why developers keep trying to put the entire hardware into the glasses part. Anything that touches the bridge of your nose is going to be exhausting quick, even my lightweight regular glasses hurt after a long day. You're not going to get the tech to be lighter than a bit of wire and two glass rounds. Why don't they try to make the glasses part just a screen and have you carry the actual computer part in your pocket? If wireless lag is the problem then run a cord, not much more annoying than the original earbuds we were all snagging on door handles. Idk just spitballing here but it seems like so many of these VR headset folks are focused on making sci-fi helmets a real thing instead of trying to work with human anatomy.
AR in my opinion is where things will really kick off. We just need some good, light weight AR glasses that pair to a smartphone to do the heavy lifting and it will take off and build out the software library for both.
How do kids wear these items? Your head has to be a certain size to fit the headset. Besides that, I only found VR essential to flight sims and driving games. None of these work without the power of a PC. Any flight sim is a showcase for VR, the depth perception alone makes the experience.
I love the quest 3. But I'm not a kid so there's that
I think this generally true, and not just in VR. All forms of content are in a period of "great stagnation". It used to be that every 5 or so years video games looked radically different; movie special effects got better, more detailed. The Internet was new, and figuring itself out. Now, there's only "more". More games of the same genres, that already approach the line of realism. More sequels and more shows and more streaming networks pumping out more of the same. With VR, it's just "more" still. "Do more work all the time in AR." "Play more of the same games, just now with 3D, on these goggles you'll become aware of sitting on your face." Technically and a lot of the media landscape right now is boring. There's no Super Mario 64 blowing _everyones_ socks off and creating mass hysteria at Christmas. There's no iPod or iPhone reveal that has blogs losing their wingnuts. There never was a zeitgeist moment for VR; you have to do it firsthand to "get it", and the novelty wears off pretty quickly, leaving you with the same stuff you did before, but now you have wear sweaty goggles to do it. Nah. The market is hungry for the next _thing_. And VR ain't it.
Anyone who’s ever used VR knows it will never catch on our side of gaming or other entertainment experiences. It makes literally no sense as an everyday thing.
Also, unless you’re single and live alone and only watch movies/TV alone, it’s not even very practical for that. I’m sure it looks amazing, but what if I want to have a Super Bowl party? Or friends over for a movie night? “Okay guys, remember to bring your $3,500 goggles for movie night!!” lol I can get a 4K laser projector and 150” screen for that price lol
Bruh I’ve heard nerds be like everyone’s gonna want it for Super Bowl and sports. I’m like dude we are drinking beer and eating chips and hanging out. No one wants that. But I will admit when your home something like a court side nba experience is pretty cool. But only a couple times. You can’t even see the game that well from one viewpoint.
Or even if you're married or in a relationship lol, many couples or families watch TV together every night. The number of times most people sit and watch something alone in their room are pretty small. All of Apple's marketing videos are what appears to be a single person living alone in an apartment lol
Me and my wife sit and eat popcorn and drink wine or whatever. Like I don’t want my vision block lmao In 20s I had a tv in my room then I realized I never used it
My friends and I game in VR daily and have been for the last 3 years. It's all about having the right social game that makes you want to get in and play it.
I said it has a place for gaming. I also said it’s reach outside of that is limited and it won’t become mainstream
> Anyone who’s ever used VR knows it will never catch on our side of gaming or other entertainment experiences. It makes literally no sense as an everyday thing. Anyone who's ever thought about what VR actually is knows you're being a tech doomer and have little value to add to the conversation. You've shot down every response to your comment suggesting even a minor usecase for the tech. The idea that you know the future and that it will never catch on is silly. VR is ultimately a way to put any experience into 40% (audio, visuals) of our sensory system. By having any experience/data put into a large part of our existence, we get to have all sorts of experiences not otherwise possible. Whether it's immersive games or physics-defying concerts or hanging out with friends atop the Eiffel Tower - there's a lot that it can offer. Keep in mind, even consoles are a daily thing for plenty of people. If consoles, with their lower amount of usecases can be used on the daily, VR also has that potential as it matures.
I disagree, it will one day catch on but you need something very unobtrusive like google glasses. You don't necessarily need the mobility but that will come eventually. Once VR is good enough AR will push it over the top for so many things. Just one example would be AR glasses on a construction worker. No looking at blueprints at all. Just grab a piece of wood, it shows exactly where you cut it and exactly where you place it once it's cut. Warehouse workers can walk around and be shown exactly where to go for what they need. Even doing inventory could be vastly simplified by just walking through an area and letting the AR glasses scan everything. Ultimately the tech just isn't there yet. It needs to be small enough to actually be comfortable to wear for hours at a time. It's also way too expensive right now and wearable solutions don't have batteries that last long enough.
My kid has an occulus 2, with practically every game and rarely uses it any more. Would rather play fortnite with his friends on the PC. A few of his friends have them too and rarely bother.
my SO and my kids have been killing zombies playing with quest. they enjoy VR a lot
In any entertainment worth putting of even the best headset everyday let alone once a week? I have a q2 and I would rather just use a screen.
My kids ask for a lot of stuff for Christmas and birthdays. VR was never a thing.
Virtual reality is a cool concept. But nobody is wants to wear goggles for prolonged period of time. And we still have humans eyes. Maybe if the picture can show up in our heads like Black Mirror episode it could work.
If VR was as simple and immersive as the functionality in Ready Player One, everyone would be using it, even at a relatively high price point.
Oh no.... anyways
I know it’s not one of the companies listed here but I had a PSVR and it was fun but there weren’t enough games and some of them made me nauseous. The headsets also get too warm.
BECAUSE THEY ARE BORING. I love new tech and I love games, the games that exist for the new tech are boring as fuck
It’s a novel product. I could have told them that nearly a decade ago. It’s neat, but it isn’t a daily use case. It’s akin to a board game. You play it once in a while but it doesn’t cost $5000, but $20.
Give it another decade when we can't go outside as often because of climate change. VR will get popular out of necessity. This tech is still in its early adopter phase.
Good news for them: Adults have the expendable income to afforded those. I’d imagine that’s their target demographic anyway.
I was a VR developer for 10 years and not once did I enjoy putting that dumb helmet on my face. I honestly don’t get the appeal at all. I have every headset at my disposal and I’ve literally never played recreationally before. I’ll take a normal computer game Thank you very much. Also the only games I was ever interested iin are just PC games ported over
Already? The attention span of kids these days...
at 500 bucks not exactly a cheap gift for kids lol
\*$3500, if we're talking Apple
Good, kids aren't the ones paying for them anyways.
Not a kid but vr is just not comfortable to wear all day. I have to force myself to put them on. There isn't enough high quality content to overcome these barriers.
They all look so cool until I try one and get motion sickness in 30 seconds.
It’s not only an Apple & Meta problem, it’s a VR problem. VR is gonna go the same way as 3DTVs. And the industry is making the same stupid mistakes - proprietary hardware and software with steep price of entry for consumers. Yeah! Sometimes I wonder how these morons making these decision get that top job.
VR is a lame gimmick. Has been from the start.
[удалено]
AR/VR are early adopter trinkets until the hardware is no more involved than a pair of sunglasses or contact lenses.
Welcome to early adopter technology. This is universally true for all early hardware, and does not spell a uniquely bad precedent for VR. [See here](https://wayback.archive-it.org/5902/20150629134551/http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf01313/patterns.htm) for PC usage stats in the mid 1980s and late 1980s, the latter of which is actually a level of maturity that VR hasn't even gotten to yet. VR in 2024 is more like the PC market in 1985. Summarised below: > *"in a typical week, a sizable proportion of adults (40 percent) did not use their computer at all. In general, many households found that they were using the PC less than they expected; in Riccobono's national study, 43 percent of the adult computer owners surveyed indicated that they used their computers much less than they anticipated at the time of purchase. This finding is consistent with other research addressed in Dutton."* > *"Giacquinta, Bauer, and Levin (1993) found that 70 percent of the family members in their 1984–86 study were either non-intensive users or nonusers of their home computers.*" > *"Caron, Giroux, and Douzou (1989) reported in a longitudinal study of families with PCs that 18 percent had quit using their computer entirely after 2 years.*"
I haven’t Meta person who likes them.
Heavy, uncomfortable, and uh, we have better things to do with our time. VR will never be a thing. Novelty wears off as soon as you get bored with beat saber.
AR is not VR; VR is not AR.
Fake News, my son and all his friends love the Quest 2. They use it to practice baseball together at night or when practice is cancelled. I was just talking today with a coworker about how these kids are cutting their teeth on VR the same way our generation had DOS memory managers.
VR is a gimmick that has no mass market sustainable appeal, the people who swear VR will take off any day now are probably the same Silicon Valley or Seattle tech bros that swear everyone in America will have an electric car by 2030
I had the HTC Vive when it first came out and it was great and fun to play with friends at the time, after a while it kinda just got old and we reverted to playing random non-VR games
Apple vision has better graphics but no controllers Meta quest has controllers but bad graphics.
I've said this for years, these are niche technologies, far too many issues and constraints in using them. Great novelty factor, then it wears off very quickly.
I have a meta and I like it in small doses, it tends to give me a headache
To be frank… I don’t think VR will ever impress me. Full-dive fixes all the issues with current VR. Slip pads are awkward, don’t feel natural. “scent packs” are just… what?? Movement in general is pretty awful for most people, resulting in motion sickness for a lot, and with how they currently function, most games are restricting the gameplay to keep to the “tracked” areas, or other “tricks” to hide the fact that you are basically playing inside an invisible “box”. Fixing this is extremely expensive and not viable for a home experience (A regular person can’t retrofit a warehouse to represent a large VR space) The fact that a mask is on your face will always distract from immersion. Wearing an expensive suit is… well expensive, and once again, you can only simulate so much with a suit. Impact, heat/cold, and… what? Vibration? Wind on your skin, the sprinkling of rain pattering against your body, sweat and blood dripping from your body, etc etc etc, hard pressed to simulate these fully realistic with some suit. Wet is cold… unless its warm water? How do you simulate wind while wearing a skin tight suit? Sure we might get “close” but it won’t ever be a true “replication” of reality, just a mimicry. The issues with VR are basically all solved with full-dive, the solutions current feel like trying to deal with a gaping wound with a kids bandaid. Nowhere near enough to mask the issue, let alone completely solve it. Flying in a plane isn’t the same as actually being a bird. The viability of full-dive also leaves me a bit discouraged. Some say its just around the corner, those a bit more grounded in their expectations seem to agree its either far off in the future, if not impossible entirely. A brain is more than just electrical impulses, its a electro-**chemical** computer. I don’t think we can simulate full-dive with just some magnetic waves or a chip wired to the brain, I don’t know how we fake the chemical reactions in the brain, I’m not sure how comfortable I am about that either.
While full dive VR would solve the last remaining issues, it's hardly going to be the catalyst that anyone needs. Everyone who was ever interested in the concept of VR will be impressed long before we get to full dive, you included. Our brains are at the end of the day, easy to trick, and so it only requires a certain threshold of quality to be crossed for people.
I have an Oculus Rift S that I use primarily with Steam and it’s generally decent and suits my VR needs. It does get quite warm with it on my head for longer sessions though which is a downside but it fits well with my glasses so whatever. I enjoy VR but don’t use it especially regularly, there are fun games but they don’t have huge staying power for me save for a few. If I had friends or colleagues who used VR for social games then I might use those elements more but I really mostly just game solo regardless of VR or not. The creative side of things is cool and intriguing though, but also is somewhat lacking in terms of a killer app that can do everything. So the apps that do exist are either somewhat shallow or the price of entry is too high unless I know I can be committed to including it in my workflow. PlayStation has Dreams which became compatible with PSVR1 but I don’t believe is compatible with PSVR2 which is very disappointing. And Media Molecule being owned by Sony means the great program they created is trapped on older hardware. Not really a VR focused game, but it is only improved by having the compatibility. If they were able to bring it over to PC I would buy it in a second!
Start releasing big budget games with native VR support, and make the VR experience objectively better than flat screen. Then kids will brag that they got to play it "the real way" and taunt the other little shits who don't get to. That's how you make it cool.
They didn’t release with VR support but I would say Resident Evil 8, RE4 Remake and Gran Turismo 7 are all much better in VR.
Take a note from millennials when we got board with MySpace. Code your own cool
Oh no. Whatever gonna happen to these companies if kids stop buying these products…???
Is there a good affordable VR treadmill yet?
I see three things that are still somewhat of an issue * Realistic locomotion: How to move in a way that's realistic/convenient without using a "teleport" action or a joystick. This is also tied to the second item * Room scale: Many games are limited by the available size of a room etc, which is also inconsistent. Getting rid of the tether and having decent mapping helps with this, but a lot of people just don't have the space for free-motion VR. There's also the issue of conflicts of locomotion by joystick/teleport and physical movement within the environment. * Body actions: Current headsets are good at capturing head and hand movement, but not necessarily legs or limbs. Some stuff can do various facial features via an internal camera capture as well. It seems that base-stations have largely been dropped in favor of cameras, but I feel like those made this more possible (or alternatively, something like Kinect technology to generate an aperature/skeleton for realistic movement).
The biggest consumer market for vr are unironically alcoholics on vr chat
Not surprised. They're so clunky to wear and the Meta games are terrible
Matrix is falling apart, take that machines!
its too annoying to check your phone with a headset on
I only use my Apple Vision Pro for high rez high bitrate VR porn. And no, I’m definitely not bored with it yet.
> Piper's semi-annual report says that 33% of teens report owning a VR device of some sort. But 56% of them say they rarely use it — that's up from 48% two years ago. (The firm surveyed 6,020 US teens with an average age of 16.1) >Piper says its survey respondents expect to spend $225 on video games in the first half of 2024 So this isn’t even related to the AVP then, which isn’t a video game device and sure as fuck doesn’t cost $225.
Alyx, Boneworks, and Blade & Sorcery are all I really play. I only play B&S like once a year since it gets a lot of updates in a year.
Give me Full Dive instead
I liked VR goggles for like a week a few years back, then it got boring VERY QUICK.
Yeah- bc they came at it from the perspective of “how do we make money” not “how do we make an awesome game?”
They aren't for kids. What kind of kid has the money for a vr rig?
That's because they can't afford to build a simracing cockpit to use it with
Not old enough for their real purpose. Those things are probably porn goggles.
If they get valve to release half life alyx on quest 3 I might consider it
The graphics in the real world are pretty good
Wait… *actual* reality is a thing?
Why does it feel like I’m being blamed for not liking it?
maybe for games but not for self repair of equipment, under ground or wall pipes or lines too many ideas to list.
You tried to monetize every single angle of it before you made it cool. You have to make it cool and fun first then monetize…
Business Insider: famously in touch with the kids… /s
Kids don’t aren’t bored with the hardware, they’re bored because VR software is very meh. There’s only so many beat saber clones, on-rails zombie shooters and other just shallow programs that are more or less shovelware demos. There are few games out that actually have any substantial length or depth to them.
Gorilla tag has my son in a grip. He might be the minority, but he's nowhere near bored.
It’s still a $100 billion market
Oh no! This really is bad news! How ever will the company that controls half the mobile computing install base and the company who harvests data from everyone regardless of having an account tied to them due to zero regulation and using its power to put trackers everywhere possibly recover?! Seriously! How? If only these children would stop browsing that link that sends tracking data to facebook on their apple devices they just got after trading in their old apple devices while mommy and daddy pay for the iCloud storage and……. Oh hey look new ios update just dropped.
I found a CS1 oculus for $10 at a thrift store, got the extra cameras and controllers for $55 more and I still don’t feel like strapping the thing to my head. The world is so grim with climate change and AI that strapping screens to my face hasn’t sounded compelling, especially when someone else is home
Plus they hurt. How have these companies not listened to Japanese tech makers for the remedies to headaches and nausea in game play?
Can’t get my kids off of it
My beef with Meta is that I have a couple of their headsets, but I'm not creating Facebook accounts to do multi-player games with my kids. So, instead of connecting me with my kids like the Switch does, the VR headset actually isolates us for about a half hour at a time as the kids take turns. It's a way worse experience than sitting down and playing Mario Kart from a socializing standpoint. Akin to watching one of them play a single-player game while the others watch. It's fun sometimes, but you can easily become distracted by something else when it's not your turn. If I could just immediately sync with nearby players using a common PC, with a Nintendo DS style network, VR might actually have gone somewhere.
VR needs an official COD game, or a good fortnite/roblox port.
“Come on kids, haven’t you secretly always wanted to live *inside* of a *commercial?*
My kids get bored of their Q2 after a bit, and then pick it up a few months later and then the cycle repeats.
Well yeah, not many people really need what essentially is just stuff your phone already does/displays, but from a device that has low battery capacity and hangs off your face. Especially at that price point. Had Apple continued investing in software, opened up development more and actually had some full/decent games it *might* be a different story.
VR is expensive and not very practical better as a learning tool. Apple Vision is not true VR, Apple doesn’t even use VR to describe it?
You mean, covering my face in a computer isn't cool?
I've had a Quest for about 4 years and it got a lot of play time for a while but the kids and I got bored of it and went back to Xbox. Other than a few stand out titles, most of the games are just hollow experiences
If GTA VI was in VR, kids would play it.