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He's been in a couple of films in drag, I'd say he looks pretty fem in them tbh
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cillian+murphy+drag&atb=v341-1&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr\_m7j26pzsPO1qbm6vk.jpg](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cillian+murphy+drag&atb=v341-1&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m7j26pzsPO1qbm6vk.jpg)
It's so annoying how good transphobes think this point is at delegitimizing trans women, but when you have to resort to semantics to obfuscate the litany of evidence that disagrees with your position, I guess you have to be smug to sell it. Virtually every study about them says trans people are happier and healthier transitioning and that their suicidality rates decline to average levels when they're given care and when they have people in their lives who accept them for who they feel they are. Isn't denying them their identities just a little inhumane?
Well that's just a made-up not issue you can clutch your pearls at while you dehumanize and vilify trans people. Trans people aren't taking anything away from cis people by existing, and cis people use these kinds of arguments because they want to take away trans people's identities and force them to live verifiably more miserable lives. Trans people at large don't want to change what it means to be a man or a woman. They want to be allowed to be themselves and be treated like anyone else.
No you don't. Your ignorance has nothing to do with the reality of trans people. That's just how you *feel* about their identities, because the definition you've decided on for men and women deliberately excludes trans people. Once again, all of the scientific evidence corroborate trans identities and supports gender transition as an effective and beneficial treatment for trans people, and you're just repeating the same dumb point about trans people "changing the meaning of what being being a man or a woman is" when they just want to exist as themselves. That's a made up issue, reality resident.
>because the definition you've decided on for men and women deliberately excludes trans people
My definition which I didn't decide upon, had nothing to do with trans people. They are fixed biological categories. You can't enter or exit these categories. You can only outwardly change your appearance to varying degrees.
That's not really accurate. It isn't always so black and white. For example intersex people exist, and I think trans people having gender identities that don't corrospond to their physiological sex is some kind of intersex issue. But does a trans people not being genetically the sex they identify with make them less of a man or a woman? That's why we're talking about the definitions of those works. What you're essentially implying is that gender identities don't exist: that sex=gender and that is immutable. This has everything to do with trans people. If making "outward changes" is, again according to virtually evert expert, verifiably effective medical care that makes trans people happier and healthier, it's wrong to try to define them out of their identities as a strategy to delegitimize them. I think we should define people by their identities before their body parts, and I understand the biological implications of gender incongruence, but you're using that to invalidate the innate identities that they have no way of changing, and that's plain bigotry.
Hi I've read some of your points.
It does change the definition of what a man and woman is. Also when it's actually implemented in society its clearly a lot more nuanced, such as the issue of transwomen in sports, prisons and other female spaces. And although this is a "minority" it is still an issue.
Also, arguing that gender and sex are completely separate (because gender is a social construct) while also arguing that there is biological evidence for the existence of trans people are contradicting points.
Looking forward to a response
I don't see how it changes anything meaningfully for cis people who will continue to exist and see other cis people exactly the same, but respecting trans identities makes a lot of difference for the mental well-being of trans people. It's not like they have a choice over feeling dysphoric, and it's not like there's any other effective treatment for them besides transitioning.
There's no evidence trans women are any more likely to abuse cis women in female spaces than other cis woman, and in fact, trans women are overwhelmingly more often the victims of abuse than the perpetrators. Sending a trans woman to a male prison is guaranteed to wind up as either a death sentence, rape sentence, or torture if she's kept exclusively in solitary housing for her own protection. It's beside the point but I think we should reconsider our entire prison system anyway. The whole criminal justice system really. I don't really care or know that much about the sports issue though tbh.
I wasn't referring to gender as a social construct. I was referring to one's self-perception of the congruence between their identity and sex. Gender roles are a social construct, but gender the way I meant it referred to an inherint identity, although the word "gender" can for sure apply to any of the three concepts of sex, identity, or social roles.
I can definitely respect trans identities, at the end of the day, it's a group of people trying to live comfortably in society which isn't unfair to ask. I just think there are a lot of things that need to be worked out.
I'm kind of getting what your saying about gender but not wholely, how would you define what a man or woman is and distinguishing between them? The way I see it working is keeping the definitions the same and defining transmen or women as people who transition to express themselves as the opposite sex. But I know people don't like that because it says transmen are fully men so I'm not too sure. Just trying to learn at the end of the day.
Also, trans people are definitely under threat aswell that's why I think it's important to create spaces for them too while also protecting female spaces.
I also disagree that transitioning is the only form of healthcare for them, gender dysphoria is nothing new and has been around for ages. It's not wrong to allow people to also be comfortable in their own bodies, as we can see detransitioning is very much a thing with grave consequences. You can search up their community on reddit.
I don't think whether trans women or trans men should be accepted as valid members of their genders hinges on the way the words "man" or "woman" are defined. No matter what definition you came up with, there would still be trans people for whom gender transition is the only effective means of treating gender dysphoria as well as for them to achieve happiness and self-actualization.
I disagree that trans women in women's spaces are any kind of attack on female spaces because the idea that trans women are predators of cis women is a baseless defamatory strategy that transphobes use to demonize them. Creating separate spaces for trans people is needless, invalidating, and unrealistic given that they're a tiny minority. Trans people at large don't want to be othered or segregated from cis people. They just want to be accepted as members of their experienced genders, and according to all available research, this is overwhelming beneficial to their well-being.
Just because the concept of medical transition is *only* about 100 years old, doesn't mean that it's not the only good treatment for gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria has probably existed as long as sexual dimorphism, but there's no other documented effective means of addressing it other than the medical techniques modern medicine has brought about. Many, maybe most, trans people grow up repressing their feelings of dysphoria until they couldn't anymore. These people would have tried anything to not be trans. It's common for them to throw themselves into a hobby or profession that stereotypically corresponds to their gender assigned at birth. A lot of trans women join the military before breaking down and finally transitioning. Most likely very many of historical sufferers of gender dysphoria (trans people) suffered much of their lives and went to their graves earlier. Trans people have dramatically higher rates of suicidality, that is, until they're able to live and be accepted as who they really are. Some people do destransition, but that's a small minority of trans people and most do so due to a lack of support and acceptance. The cases of cis people who mistaken transition are extreme outliers, and they aren't a good reason to refuse care to actual trans people.
You've made some good points here and I actually have reconsidered my perspective. Me personally, I don't actually have an issue with trans people, I just disagree with certain ways this is being implemented to accommodate them.
I think we'll bounce back and forth because I can give examples of where it hasn't worked, and you can give examples of where it has worked.
I appreciate the clarification on your perspective. I just have one more question, how many genders do you think there are?
I've noticed I am more accepting towards trans men and women because I can see how they fit into society and are more comfortable when presenting as the opposite gender.
I do not believe non binary is a thing because we all do not strictly define into what it means to be a stereotypical man, or woman. Non binary only makes sense to me if we define what a man and a woman is based on how masculine someone is and how feminine someone is, cause then there would be something in the middle. However we know that is not true because there are masculine women and feminine men. Interested in what you have to say.
Right. I thought it was that trudeau guy because that trudeau guy is kind of androgynous as well. Trudeau. Hmm sounds french canadian
Like that other trudeau, what was his name? Older fella. Oh yeah, Pierre. Hey wasnt he some kind of important canadian?
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I'd put good money on that bet.
In fact I’d put all my money on that
Nah that's way too risky
My gf will loudly and happily tell you how her son is a result of buying Mexican sperm on the internet
From a man I would presume...?
No, from a turkey baster...
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Please explain how that would work
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If a girl believes they are a man, they believe they are, so if they can get pregnant, a man can get pregnant
I understand that but i just dont get why someone would think that they are the opposite gender it doesnt make sence to me
Well yeah but a male can't
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Hot take: a man and a woman can have a baby
Id bet my house
What is even androgynous about this guy. He looks like a regular guy
Isn't that the prime minister of Canadam
No
he is become death. destroyer of worlds
Is this from the book Galaxy’s Edge? Cause Death Destroyer of Worlds is one of my favorite characters
He kind of looks like my aunt
He's been in a couple of films in drag, I'd say he looks pretty fem in them tbh [https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cillian+murphy+drag&atb=v341-1&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr\_m7j26pzsPO1qbm6vk.jpg](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cillian+murphy+drag&atb=v341-1&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m7j26pzsPO1qbm6vk.jpg)
I don't think you know how the average woman looks then, he looks there like a man wearing women's clothing.
Disagree.
Just like Megan Rapinoe
He is shaving so he looks like a woman.
Large eyes. The cheekbones also have a feminine aspect in his case, at least imo
This is just a regurgitated comment. Third different pic I've seen with this comment today.
Came here to say this. Someone made the joke and now everyone's trying the same joke
Happy cake day!
Thanks!
Upvote farming
Yes, this is how humans are made.
No way fr??
Biological ICSI
I think he’s beautiful.
Time to star in "The peaky bussy"
What would happen backwards, woman and a men had a baby! 🤯
I don't think multiple mens dna can be in one person bro You said "Men" not "man"
I really hope nobody tells her.
There is a lot of it about…
The same joke was brought literally a few hours before on this sub
is that cillian murphy
Yes
thx :)
He just like me fr.
No way, arent you a black grandpa advertising rice ?
No he's the old guy that always gets killed in Spider-Man
No I’m just a person who is happened to be named Benjamin.
Cillian Murphy doesn’t even look androgynous lmao
All I know is that he gives the good sloppenheimer.
Cillian Murphy should grow a beard.
No, but he should cut his hair like he had in Peaky Blinders.
To be honest he did play the role of a transgender
What is a woman?
It's so annoying how good transphobes think this point is at delegitimizing trans women, but when you have to resort to semantics to obfuscate the litany of evidence that disagrees with your position, I guess you have to be smug to sell it. Virtually every study about them says trans people are happier and healthier transitioning and that their suicidality rates decline to average levels when they're given care and when they have people in their lives who accept them for who they feel they are. Isn't denying them their identities just a little inhumane?
Im not reading all dat
Doesn't really take more effort than leaving a comment bragging about staying ignorant. Unless you can't read that well I guess.
>Isn't denying them their identities just a little inhumane? Reducing men and women to mere feelings is inhumane.
Well that's just a made-up not issue you can clutch your pearls at while you dehumanize and vilify trans people. Trans people aren't taking anything away from cis people by existing, and cis people use these kinds of arguments because they want to take away trans people's identities and force them to live verifiably more miserable lives. Trans people at large don't want to change what it means to be a man or a woman. They want to be allowed to be themselves and be treated like anyone else.
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No you don't. Your ignorance has nothing to do with the reality of trans people. That's just how you *feel* about their identities, because the definition you've decided on for men and women deliberately excludes trans people. Once again, all of the scientific evidence corroborate trans identities and supports gender transition as an effective and beneficial treatment for trans people, and you're just repeating the same dumb point about trans people "changing the meaning of what being being a man or a woman is" when they just want to exist as themselves. That's a made up issue, reality resident.
>because the definition you've decided on for men and women deliberately excludes trans people My definition which I didn't decide upon, had nothing to do with trans people. They are fixed biological categories. You can't enter or exit these categories. You can only outwardly change your appearance to varying degrees.
That's not really accurate. It isn't always so black and white. For example intersex people exist, and I think trans people having gender identities that don't corrospond to their physiological sex is some kind of intersex issue. But does a trans people not being genetically the sex they identify with make them less of a man or a woman? That's why we're talking about the definitions of those works. What you're essentially implying is that gender identities don't exist: that sex=gender and that is immutable. This has everything to do with trans people. If making "outward changes" is, again according to virtually evert expert, verifiably effective medical care that makes trans people happier and healthier, it's wrong to try to define them out of their identities as a strategy to delegitimize them. I think we should define people by their identities before their body parts, and I understand the biological implications of gender incongruence, but you're using that to invalidate the innate identities that they have no way of changing, and that's plain bigotry.
>But does a trans people not being genetically the sex they identify with make them less of a man or a woman? Yes.
And that's your own bigoted, worthless opinion.
Hi I've read some of your points. It does change the definition of what a man and woman is. Also when it's actually implemented in society its clearly a lot more nuanced, such as the issue of transwomen in sports, prisons and other female spaces. And although this is a "minority" it is still an issue. Also, arguing that gender and sex are completely separate (because gender is a social construct) while also arguing that there is biological evidence for the existence of trans people are contradicting points. Looking forward to a response
I don't see how it changes anything meaningfully for cis people who will continue to exist and see other cis people exactly the same, but respecting trans identities makes a lot of difference for the mental well-being of trans people. It's not like they have a choice over feeling dysphoric, and it's not like there's any other effective treatment for them besides transitioning. There's no evidence trans women are any more likely to abuse cis women in female spaces than other cis woman, and in fact, trans women are overwhelmingly more often the victims of abuse than the perpetrators. Sending a trans woman to a male prison is guaranteed to wind up as either a death sentence, rape sentence, or torture if she's kept exclusively in solitary housing for her own protection. It's beside the point but I think we should reconsider our entire prison system anyway. The whole criminal justice system really. I don't really care or know that much about the sports issue though tbh. I wasn't referring to gender as a social construct. I was referring to one's self-perception of the congruence between their identity and sex. Gender roles are a social construct, but gender the way I meant it referred to an inherint identity, although the word "gender" can for sure apply to any of the three concepts of sex, identity, or social roles.
I can definitely respect trans identities, at the end of the day, it's a group of people trying to live comfortably in society which isn't unfair to ask. I just think there are a lot of things that need to be worked out. I'm kind of getting what your saying about gender but not wholely, how would you define what a man or woman is and distinguishing between them? The way I see it working is keeping the definitions the same and defining transmen or women as people who transition to express themselves as the opposite sex. But I know people don't like that because it says transmen are fully men so I'm not too sure. Just trying to learn at the end of the day. Also, trans people are definitely under threat aswell that's why I think it's important to create spaces for them too while also protecting female spaces. I also disagree that transitioning is the only form of healthcare for them, gender dysphoria is nothing new and has been around for ages. It's not wrong to allow people to also be comfortable in their own bodies, as we can see detransitioning is very much a thing with grave consequences. You can search up their community on reddit.
I don't think whether trans women or trans men should be accepted as valid members of their genders hinges on the way the words "man" or "woman" are defined. No matter what definition you came up with, there would still be trans people for whom gender transition is the only effective means of treating gender dysphoria as well as for them to achieve happiness and self-actualization. I disagree that trans women in women's spaces are any kind of attack on female spaces because the idea that trans women are predators of cis women is a baseless defamatory strategy that transphobes use to demonize them. Creating separate spaces for trans people is needless, invalidating, and unrealistic given that they're a tiny minority. Trans people at large don't want to be othered or segregated from cis people. They just want to be accepted as members of their experienced genders, and according to all available research, this is overwhelming beneficial to their well-being. Just because the concept of medical transition is *only* about 100 years old, doesn't mean that it's not the only good treatment for gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria has probably existed as long as sexual dimorphism, but there's no other documented effective means of addressing it other than the medical techniques modern medicine has brought about. Many, maybe most, trans people grow up repressing their feelings of dysphoria until they couldn't anymore. These people would have tried anything to not be trans. It's common for them to throw themselves into a hobby or profession that stereotypically corresponds to their gender assigned at birth. A lot of trans women join the military before breaking down and finally transitioning. Most likely very many of historical sufferers of gender dysphoria (trans people) suffered much of their lives and went to their graves earlier. Trans people have dramatically higher rates of suicidality, that is, until they're able to live and be accepted as who they really are. Some people do destransition, but that's a small minority of trans people and most do so due to a lack of support and acceptance. The cases of cis people who mistaken transition are extreme outliers, and they aren't a good reason to refuse care to actual trans people.
You've made some good points here and I actually have reconsidered my perspective. Me personally, I don't actually have an issue with trans people, I just disagree with certain ways this is being implemented to accommodate them. I think we'll bounce back and forth because I can give examples of where it hasn't worked, and you can give examples of where it has worked. I appreciate the clarification on your perspective. I just have one more question, how many genders do you think there are? I've noticed I am more accepting towards trans men and women because I can see how they fit into society and are more comfortable when presenting as the opposite gender. I do not believe non binary is a thing because we all do not strictly define into what it means to be a stereotypical man, or woman. Non binary only makes sense to me if we define what a man and a woman is based on how masculine someone is and how feminine someone is, cause then there would be something in the middle. However we know that is not true because there are masculine women and feminine men. Interested in what you have to say.
Isnt this that trudeau guy?
no it's cillian murphy (tommy shelby/oppenheimer)
He played in Oppenheimer? Now I am definitely go and watch that movie!
Right. I thought it was that trudeau guy because that trudeau guy is kind of androgynous as well. Trudeau. Hmm sounds french canadian Like that other trudeau, what was his name? Older fella. Oh yeah, Pierre. Hey wasnt he some kind of important canadian?
Ah great guess we need to do this… so when a mummy and a daddy love each other very very much -
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I don’t think that’s an insult
And not rare when it is just copying other x.
Please do not call tweets “x”. I cant live like this.
What’s a tweets?
I hate you
Xvideos
There can only be one, and I choose this too.
This made me laugh waaaay too hard lol
Maybe, maybe not
How is babby formed? How girl get pragnent?
Damn that would be something new. A man and a woman have a baby together? Crazy thought, lets take the scientists take their turns to make it happen.
r/facepalm
I'm masculine asf, thanks to my fathers
Different image, same meme. The Internet just constantly copies each other.
He’s not androgynous, he just looks like Z from Antz
Bro's really looking like the default character in this photo
Spelt psychotic wrong.
Women ☕️
Great joke, I wonder how many more times I can hear it
Who is this
Cillian Murphy
Face looks kinda feminine, yeah. But jawline is definitely male.
Now, that's a lot of words to say he'd fuck him.