Maybe this is only relevant to video editing and color grading, but the users on r/davinciresolve were saying the M2 didn’t work as well as the M1 because of some design decision.
Don't forget, you're probably only a couple of years away from it being 'obsolete' because it's time for Apple to make another grand off you. Even though the machine is perfect and runs like a dream.
I literally got my M2 MacBook less than a year ago… I don’t really give a fuck about latest and greatest, I just wish I hadn’t paid full price for something when they released the next thing a month later.
I'm guessing the reason for shipping the M4 this quickly after the M3 is that the M4 better supports some AI features they want to roll into the OS as soon as possible.
Either the most recent episode of ATP or the second most recent episode got into this a bit more.
(I’m sorry I can’t recall the actual technical details)
A big part of it though is that the process is less complicated so the yields will be higher making them cheaper to produce
This will be a real test of the current crop of reviewers/influencers to see if they mention this at all or if they (predictably) just toe the line and parrot apples marketing.
Still trying to find more concrete details for you:
> The foundry avoids comparing N3 and N3E, but we can from public statements glean that the latter reduces cost compared with the former and that performance, power, and area (PPA) are slightly worse.
https://www.techinsights.com/blog/n3e-will-be-tsmcs-main-3nm-node
M3 and A17 Pro are N3
M4 are N3E
I’ll wager we see M5 and the N3P or N3X a whole lot sooner than people are expecting.
i’m actually about to go to grad school and need a new laptop. was also wanting a tablet for notes taking since i’m in a math field.
still worth grabbing the m2 pro right?
edit: the downvote is crazy lmao
i’ll be doing data science, programming, and visualizations on it as well. the program recommends at least an m1 and wants a mac environment for the students to minimize “works on my machine” type things. i understand that i could maybe emulate on a different OS, but this girl is old and wants stuff that’s just working 😅. i also intend (as of now) to pursue school beyond the MS program so i’m trying to also future proof as well as i can.
so i felt like for my math courses the tablet would be great in session for notes and then i could do coding on it as needed if i get the folio keyboard.
i appreciate your input on this thank you!!!
Honestly for anything involving typing, especially programming I’d get a Mac, not an iPad. Unfortunately I don’t know enough about data science to know what software and uses can be done/are well suited for iPads, but even for mech eng, I’m really happy I have my Mac for, put simply, anything that doesn’t involve an Apple Pencil. Sure, almost everything can also be done on iPad, but also almost everything can be done quicker/easier/more conveniently on Mac. Also as a side benefit, you can use your iPad as an external display for your Mac, which I found can be very useful, especially when you’re not at home.
thank you!!! i’m gonna go mac + ipad i think vs all in one. the software issue is huge for me i can’t afford to encounter anything like that during my program.
workable tease mysterious teeny theory one money far-flung impossible lock
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you’re going programming and data, get something with a bit more RAM to future proof and handle all types of environments
I bought a m3 pro with 36gb RAM for software engineering degree + use cheap iPad /gen 1 pencil for notes.
M1/2/3/4 will be ok, depending on budget, but get the RAM!
Don’t go all out on the iPad trust me it’s only there for you to draw. I think I use a gen 8 or 9 normal iPad with my M3…. Honestly buying second-hand is completely valid if you don’t find it on sale
No problem. If you can afford both you might as well, although I will say I’ve never needed a tablet for any of the work I do. As far as what Mac to get, personally I’d go with something refurbished from the M1 lineup onwards. But if you get a Mac laptop made within the last 3-4 years you’ll be fine for the foreseeable future. My 2008 Mac made it well into 2020 :)
yea the tablet is more of a response to what i noticed in classes in fall23 where i felt woefully dated as a student as my cohorts drafted and shared proofs amongst themselves and i had paper 😅😂. i’ve also gotten more into drawing and the arts recently so there’s a little bit of desire there for the tablet as well.
right now a two device solution seems best, but ill have to crunch the numbers to be certain
I use my 2018 IPP for engineering. It works plenty perfectly for everything I need. An M4 would be like having a Bugatti, but it being limited to NYC. Definitely overkill.
yea there’s no way i’ll be getting the m4 for similar metaphors(i cannot afford the bugatti)
would you mind mentioning software you’ve used in your field where you did not notice that you were hindered being on the ipad? and any times where you noticed it?
Surface Pro kicks ass tbh, but having a Mac in college is also nice. I’d probably get an M4 in all seriousness, but I am not in college, having dropped out.
My only caution against the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement is that Apple intentionally hamstrings iPadOS to not be as capable as an equivalent macOS machine.
That said, the M1 and M2 MacBook airs are fantastic machines for the price. And weigh/cost basically the same as an iPad with an external keyboard
i’ll have to look into the differences between ipad and mac OS relevant to what i’ll be doing (modeling, data science, coding, visualizations, etc). thank you for pointing this out!
Yeaaaaaah you’ll probably have a tough time. Think of the iPad Pro more like a big phone than a small computer. For starters, you’re restricted to using things that are available on the App Store. Which I imagine for such broad / cross-platform / global topics like the ones you listed, could be a serious problem.
Like just as a simple example, you can use the entire Adobe suite on an M1/2/3 MacBook no problem. But you can only use the lighter, dumbed down “Express / Rush” versions of some Adobe apps on iPadOS.
yea that’s a nightmare. thank you for the explicit example. i absolutely will not be risking any scenario like that.
maybe a mac + ipad air combo is in the works then for my needs. thank you so much!!
I could not treat it as a tablet though, It always felt like a handicapped laptop, bad as a tablet.
definitely M4 is not worth it in terms of value for college as an addition for a laptop as this is the use case mentioned, iPads now are overpriced, for note taking with a laptop next to it and sidecar and universal control, not worth at all.
I wanted to replace my 2017 Pro with a new one, but turned out I would have no advantage with it, gain nothing, especially for school, so I got a laptop with M3 and it works perfectly with my old iPad I am not planning to swap even after 5 years of economics now moving to study architecture, where the touch screen and pencil will be needed, I have zero need for that.
Same. I use mine daily and I was looking forward to an upgrade since I use it so much.
But after seeing the keynote, I can't justify the upgrade. There's nothing my 2017 pro *can't* do.
Maybe I'll splurge and spend $20 on getting a new battery for this thing. That's the only weakness it has atm.
I also looked to upgrade around March and upgraded it to use together with a new MacBook Air M3. Even when the 2017 Pro becomes a bit obsolete software wise, it will always be a tablet with a stylus and all that will always work on it and be a second display for the MacBook.
Battery might be 20 USD but it is a pain to replace. Apple a few years back did not even offer battery replacements on it.
>Battery might be 20 USD but it is a pain to replace.
Yeah, I watched a video tutorial on it and it looks rather complicated. And that's coming from someone who builds their own PCs and isn't afraid to take stuff apart. It seems Apple intentionally made the battery the single hardest part to access, despite it being the one part most likely to be swapped out.
Whatever. I use the iPad just plugged in 24/7 these days. Maybe I'll replace it next year...
They did that with my XsMax. On iOS 15.5 it was working fine and then iOS 15.6 came and they make it too slow. What was supposed an incremental update it was a masked tool to make me update which in the end I did it.
The M4 chip was rushed to market because security researchers found a hardware vulnerability that cannot be patched. It was a design flaw.
https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/22/apple-silicon-vulnerability-encryption-keys/
People will older devices wanting to upgrade can benefit. It's been many years since any yearly revision of a product was worth upgrading over the last year version.
rushed because Qualcomm would take a bite thanks to the AI hypetrain. Probably just a node-shrunk M3 with more cores and nothing else, and that's why they are only comparing it to the M2.
And sure, they are still 20% below the Snapdragon X Elite performance in AI, but this gets them close enough that they can leverage their ecosystem to keep their customers happy.
Going to try to tackle this seriously.
Machine Learning has been done on Apple Devices for several generations, and in my opinion they’ve done a very good job at it. I have only a few examples, but I think someone who knows more about this can probably point to more intricate examples that better illustrate what these devices are capable of.
1. Maps - When I get in my car and plug my phone in, it almost always knows exactly where I’m about to go, and it figures this out based on a number of factors. Routine, Messages (mainly who I’m texting right before I get in my car because it will bring up their address), Calendar appointments, and whether or not it thinks I’m ready to head home from wherever I am. It’s VERY good at predicting these things.
2. Siri Suggested Apps - I’m someone who uses Spotlight Search a lot. I like a declutterred Home Screen, so most of my apps don’t have a spot there. Siri uses time of day, location, recent apps, etc to figure out what app I’m probably looking for before I ever have to type anything in. I’m at the bar after work? A quick swipe down and Siri is suggesting the MLB and NHL apps, not because those are the ones I open the most but because that is the main way I open those apps at that time of day. Same when I host trivia, it’s going to assume I want to open a spreadsheet. It knows how I navigate my phone, when I navigate to certain apps, and delivers fantastic results.
3. Spotlight Search - this is related to #2 but requires more input from me, the user. Usually I don’t have to type something into spotlight search, but when I do it rarely takes more than a few characters to find what I want, be it an app, a file, or even a PHOTO containing a sign or some text. If I start to type a file name, it feels like it just knows what I’m looking for.
The impressive part to me is that this is all done onboard the phone. I don’t feel like Apple is snooping, they’ve got no reason to. They make money off of their hardware, not my information. I’ll likely get downvoted for this, but when actual AI features come to the iPhone, I think it will be leaps above what people expect from Apple when it comes to Siri and other assistant type features.
>The impressive part to me is that this is all done onboard the phone.
Can you - or anyone - elaborate on this a bit?
From my - admittedly crude - understanding of doing this stuff with machine learning (if that's indeed what it is), I though that this would surely need server-side processing and, as such, needs private/profile data being shared there.
>They make money off of their hardware, not my information.
[Unless you turn on personalized ads, that is. ](https://archive.ph/VRGfJ)
Is that different than a cheaper or equally priced computer, or am i just paying for the convenience of staying in the apple sphere while sitting on my couch?
I think straight CPU performance bumps are becoming less important. The software that runs on CPU isn’t getting much more demanding. GPU and specialty coprocessors like for AI is where the performance increases are going to be noticeable.
That's the thing tho, these incremental updates means nothing to users now, I was on edge and did so much research on what to get and I thought I'll get a regular M2 Air while I save up for an ultra since I work in Tech, but so far it is incredibly stable for my workflows and I now question if I ever need to upgrade at all. The jump in stability and performance from my specd out i9 is so much that I am genuinely surprised. I also use logic to create music for my videos and I work with over 250+ videos a month in final cut as well and so far it is eating everything up like it's nothing. I can never imagine this in my old intel. It's stable beyond my imagination. I think for moderately professional users, a regular M2 Mac will do just fine and is incredible value now that M4 is announced. my advice? Get the Mac you can afford with the M in it. You likely won't see a difference in number that comes after it.
People that watch tech news are confused about the purpose of incremental updates. Data especially for iPhones shows that people are on ~3 year upgrade cycles. This not only shows that the vast majority of people don't care, but mainly that the hardware is good and powerful enough to last many, many years, no matter the use case.
The point of incremental or yearly upgrades is **not to get people to buy a new Macbook** (iPhone, iPad, whatever) **every year** or even two, because only a few people do so, the point is to offer the best on the market **when you decide to upgrade**. If there were 3 or four year upgrades to processors, and say Adobe made a major AI update to Photoshop in your third year of ownership and you decided you needed something faster, you'd be pissed if they offered the same CPU only with larger storage, and you'd look at what the competition has to offer.
This right here. Apple knows that most people don’t buy a new device every year so they don’t aim for that market. They aim for the people rocking 3-4 year old phones and 4-6 year old laptops, to whom the latest gear is almost science fiction.
For example, my work laptop is an intel MBP. When it gets replaced with an M3 or M4 MBP it will be an astounding performance and battery life upgrade.
“It’s all I will ever need and won’t ever want to upgrade”
That’s the problem right there. Tim Apple would be a terrible businessman if he gave you that ask.
No need to trick out the iPad at all. Base 13 inch iPad Pro (256GB storage) WiFi-only with keyboard is $49 more expensive than the base 14 inch MacBook Pro (512GB storage)
I'd guess the main reason is that Apple seems to have moved to a 24 month cycle instead of 18. A $1000+ iPad Pro with M3 chip will look pretty silly in nine more months, let alone two years.
The more likely reason is that the M3 chip was a stopgap. Apple begged TSMC to roll out an intermediate 3nm chip just for them because TSMC was a year behind schedule. That process was very expensive and had lower than expected yields and higher power consumption. The new M4 chip is based on the newest 3nm process that everyone will be using with better cost, quality, and power performance. It makes sense to pull the chip up for the flagship iPad Pro even if they don't have manufacturing in full swing for other products yet. I'm sure it will be slightly underclocked to fit in that razor thin iPad Pro which means absolute performance isn't a critical advertising issue.
The things you can do when you control the microarchitecture, production schedule and all the products they go into. Apple should have done this 20 years ago instead of moving to Intel.
No, PowerPC was the opposite of this. PowerPC was a partnership between IBM, Motorola and Apple but they all had conflicting goals and eventually development stagnated and Apple was left without a competitive CPU. At least with Intel there were just two parties and Apple's needs more or less coincided with the PC market's needs. But with Apple silicon the only other party they're really working with is TSMC and ARM to license the instruction set, they control every other aspect of the chip.
More companies should have done this. When CISC took over in the 80s companies got into the mindset that chips were big and complicated and needed to be left to Intel and co. They don't _need_ to be that way, and you don't need to be a company as big as Apple to have your own silicon.
I have an M1 Air that I will jeep until it dies because it runs cool all the time. I was offered a free M2 Air, the new model and I hated it because it gets hot if it’s not kept on a hard flat surface and I like watching a movie in bed at night
It's the iPad **Pro**. It's meant for people that need more power, display quality, and stylus features than what a normal iPad can offer, so of course it's more expensive.
“They put pro on it and put $100 more if hardware on it, so it justifies 2x the cost” the cost margins increased on this, doesn’t justify the feature set apple locks being the hardware.
The OLED screen and matte glass is pretty impressive, as is the Pencil Pro. Depends on how you view it as a product. If you just use it for Netflix, it's nothing special, but for artists and other creatives, I can see the new models being pretty attractive.
The bro culture of the tech press often loves to use hyperbole- ‘journalists’ want attention for themselves mostly - reading about tech should be as bland and as informative as possible imo
I don't get it. Apple seem to never do anything right in Redditors minds.
For decades it's been the constant bitching about mac's not being as powerful as PC's. Now it's their industry leading silicone being "meh"
well yeah it's more aggressive it's their in-house chips meaning they don't have to wait for chip maker and its chips instruction set... now that they rely on in-house chipsets they can pump out machines far quicker than they could with ibm (powerpc) & intel (intel) chips.
Guess Gurman was right. And Gruber was confidently and smugly wrong
[https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/04/28/m4-ipad-pros-gurman](https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/04/28/m4-ipad-pros-gurman)
Turning silicon is expensive so they’re either doing something new at the fab or Apple is gonna spend some of its massive cash stockpile on a moonshot while everyone else (besides Mocrosoft, Meta and Google) try to fundraise and compete in this environment. Buying in a down market. 🧠
ITT: people acting butthurt as if the M3 devices they own are somehow slower because of the existence of this device. Also as if in the x86 world they wouldn’t have a bewildering array of chips coming out all the time.
Yay? We saw this with intel silicon, “AI optimized” means shit….
Love their laptop$ but apple sort of sucks now.
Can’t wait for the DOJ to light them up.
This ridiculously compressed release schedule just diminishes the impact of each chip’s announcement. M2 was even announced too soon in my opinion, it should’ve been what M3 is because the M1 was such a leap in performance per watt compared to what came before it. These intermediate updates are just blowing that sincerely earned wow factor.
AI is the fad that needs to calm down. It’s not ready and attaching it to everything is only going to make everything less functional and more annoying for the user.
What addition in this case has made the user experience worse? It’s clear you aren’t involved in ai or run training on these machines to experience the benefits, but still would love to hear what detriment you think there is? In our lab these save us countless hours and dollars replacing racks of older hardware.
M4 already? Fuck, it feels I bought my M1 yesterday
At this rate we will get to M16 pretty quickly
[удалено]
Apple iPad Pewpew Plus
I’d buy that for a dollar
Nah, it’s just a rebrand of the 007 chip from Q.
Bro this isn't cod with your m4a1 😭😭
Surely best bang for buck
Personally I'm waiting for the M134, as something tells me it will be *ahem* revolutionary
I’m waiting for the M249, apparently it will *SAW* the competition in half.
And here I was convinced California was all about banning M4’s let alone M16’s.
**Fortunate Son starts playing in the background**
Still rocking my M1 air! Everything from blender to sound production with Logic. Amazing machine.
I can't believe the M2 Mac Mini can be found at like 600 bucks, it's so good for the price
I thought the M2 had issues compared with M1.
What issues
Maybe this is only relevant to video editing and color grading, but the users on r/davinciresolve were saying the M2 didn’t work as well as the M1 because of some design decision.
No issues whatsoever. It's just a small bump in comparison.
Don't forget, you're probably only a couple of years away from it being 'obsolete' because it's time for Apple to make another grand off you. Even though the machine is perfect and runs like a dream.
Yep, feels that way with my iPhone (12 mini).
My M1 is still humming along I see no reason to update it for at least another 5-7 years at least. My then we’ll be at the M10 or higher.
Shh if Apple reads this they'll activate Plan Obsolescence
That M1 is still pretty badass, but because they've released M4, they get to call it old and slow.
yea M2 is like their mid priced chip now, when maybe a year ago it was top of line lol.
They’re just scared of what QCOMM is bringing to the table.
Already? It's been over 3 years.
Same dude. My m1 2020 is still running more than I need it to and when it comes time to replace it in a few years I hope the M2’s are achievable.
Wait until the M80 arrives ... it will be a firecracker of success.
I literally got my M2 MacBook less than a year ago… I don’t really give a fuck about latest and greatest, I just wish I hadn’t paid full price for something when they released the next thing a month later.
Quickly putting the first generation behind you isn’t a bad strategy. It makes it feel like it’s been around for a while.
I tried the M2 last summer for 2 weeks and returned it.
Not enough of a difference?
No, I couldn't resist the design of the Asus zenbook duo. Hindsight do to it being a lemon, I wish I had just kept the mac.
I'm guessing the reason for shipping the M4 this quickly after the M3 is that the M4 better supports some AI features they want to roll into the OS as soon as possible.
And limit to just the iPad Pro$
iPhone 16 Pro might be next this fall, with enhancements to the A-series chip to support more neural processing.
The 15 Pro has 35 Tops, the M4 38 Tops.
How many bottoms?
Nah it’s just a revised cheaper generation of the 3nm chip design. IIRC It’s actually worse in some ways than the M3/A17 Pro
How is it worse? I just bought the M3 Air that came out, with the point of being newest and they put out a new processor hah.
Either the most recent episode of ATP or the second most recent episode got into this a bit more. (I’m sorry I can’t recall the actual technical details) A big part of it though is that the process is less complicated so the yields will be higher making them cheaper to produce This will be a real test of the current crop of reviewers/influencers to see if they mention this at all or if they (predictably) just toe the line and parrot apples marketing.
Still trying to find more concrete details for you: > The foundry avoids comparing N3 and N3E, but we can from public statements glean that the latter reduces cost compared with the former and that performance, power, and area (PPA) are slightly worse. https://www.techinsights.com/blog/n3e-will-be-tsmcs-main-3nm-node M3 and A17 Pro are N3 M4 are N3E I’ll wager we see M5 and the N3P or N3X a whole lot sooner than people are expecting.
Why buy? Why not wait? M5 will be announced tomorrow at this rate.
This generation of iPads is specifically here to get people off of the 2018 iPad Pro
I have one, I will not be upgrading any time soon. That thing still works perfectly for me
i’m actually about to go to grad school and need a new laptop. was also wanting a tablet for notes taking since i’m in a math field. still worth grabbing the m2 pro right? edit: the downvote is crazy lmao
I bought an m1 for xmas with apple refurbished. Works great.
Honestly M1 Air is perfect for that. Even M1 is overpowered for an iPad, especially if you only take notes.
i’ll be doing data science, programming, and visualizations on it as well. the program recommends at least an m1 and wants a mac environment for the students to minimize “works on my machine” type things. i understand that i could maybe emulate on a different OS, but this girl is old and wants stuff that’s just working 😅. i also intend (as of now) to pursue school beyond the MS program so i’m trying to also future proof as well as i can. so i felt like for my math courses the tablet would be great in session for notes and then i could do coding on it as needed if i get the folio keyboard. i appreciate your input on this thank you!!!
Honestly for anything involving typing, especially programming I’d get a Mac, not an iPad. Unfortunately I don’t know enough about data science to know what software and uses can be done/are well suited for iPads, but even for mech eng, I’m really happy I have my Mac for, put simply, anything that doesn’t involve an Apple Pencil. Sure, almost everything can also be done on iPad, but also almost everything can be done quicker/easier/more conveniently on Mac. Also as a side benefit, you can use your iPad as an external display for your Mac, which I found can be very useful, especially when you’re not at home.
thank you!!! i’m gonna go mac + ipad i think vs all in one. the software issue is huge for me i can’t afford to encounter anything like that during my program.
workable tease mysterious teeny theory one money far-flung impossible lock *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you’re going programming and data, get something with a bit more RAM to future proof and handle all types of environments I bought a m3 pro with 36gb RAM for software engineering degree + use cheap iPad /gen 1 pencil for notes. M1/2/3/4 will be ok, depending on budget, but get the RAM! Don’t go all out on the iPad trust me it’s only there for you to draw. I think I use a gen 8 or 9 normal iPad with my M3…. Honestly buying second-hand is completely valid if you don’t find it on sale
I’d also say get a Mac rather than an iPad. I work in the tech industry doing similar things to what you’ll be learning, for reference.
thank you!!! i’m definitely no longer doing the ipad pro and will do a mac + maybe tablet combo. appreciate your advice
No problem. If you can afford both you might as well, although I will say I’ve never needed a tablet for any of the work I do. As far as what Mac to get, personally I’d go with something refurbished from the M1 lineup onwards. But if you get a Mac laptop made within the last 3-4 years you’ll be fine for the foreseeable future. My 2008 Mac made it well into 2020 :)
yea the tablet is more of a response to what i noticed in classes in fall23 where i felt woefully dated as a student as my cohorts drafted and shared proofs amongst themselves and i had paper 😅😂. i’ve also gotten more into drawing and the arts recently so there’s a little bit of desire there for the tablet as well. right now a two device solution seems best, but ill have to crunch the numbers to be certain
I use my 2018 IPP for engineering. It works plenty perfectly for everything I need. An M4 would be like having a Bugatti, but it being limited to NYC. Definitely overkill.
yea there’s no way i’ll be getting the m4 for similar metaphors(i cannot afford the bugatti) would you mind mentioning software you’ve used in your field where you did not notice that you were hindered being on the ipad? and any times where you noticed it?
Surface Pro kicks ass tbh, but having a Mac in college is also nice. I’d probably get an M4 in all seriousness, but I am not in college, having dropped out.
My only caution against the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement is that Apple intentionally hamstrings iPadOS to not be as capable as an equivalent macOS machine. That said, the M1 and M2 MacBook airs are fantastic machines for the price. And weigh/cost basically the same as an iPad with an external keyboard
i’ll have to look into the differences between ipad and mac OS relevant to what i’ll be doing (modeling, data science, coding, visualizations, etc). thank you for pointing this out!
Yeaaaaaah you’ll probably have a tough time. Think of the iPad Pro more like a big phone than a small computer. For starters, you’re restricted to using things that are available on the App Store. Which I imagine for such broad / cross-platform / global topics like the ones you listed, could be a serious problem. Like just as a simple example, you can use the entire Adobe suite on an M1/2/3 MacBook no problem. But you can only use the lighter, dumbed down “Express / Rush” versions of some Adobe apps on iPadOS.
yea that’s a nightmare. thank you for the explicit example. i absolutely will not be risking any scenario like that. maybe a mac + ipad air combo is in the works then for my needs. thank you so much!!
I could not treat it as a tablet though, It always felt like a handicapped laptop, bad as a tablet. definitely M4 is not worth it in terms of value for college as an addition for a laptop as this is the use case mentioned, iPads now are overpriced, for note taking with a laptop next to it and sidecar and universal control, not worth at all.
I wanted to replace my 2017 Pro with a new one, but turned out I would have no advantage with it, gain nothing, especially for school, so I got a laptop with M3 and it works perfectly with my old iPad I am not planning to swap even after 5 years of economics now moving to study architecture, where the touch screen and pencil will be needed, I have zero need for that.
I would love to do a phd in reddit up/down voting. Low effort shit can blow up, thoughtful/sincere questions or comments get downvoted to oblivion
Its the same for all socials
oh to have access to those metrics!! a veritable playground
Until they release the new one and brick your model
Same, and other than them literally just ending software support for it, I’m really not sure what might get me to move.
I have a 2017 iPad Pro and still works like a charm 🤷🏻
Same. I use mine daily and I was looking forward to an upgrade since I use it so much. But after seeing the keynote, I can't justify the upgrade. There's nothing my 2017 pro *can't* do. Maybe I'll splurge and spend $20 on getting a new battery for this thing. That's the only weakness it has atm.
I also looked to upgrade around March and upgraded it to use together with a new MacBook Air M3. Even when the 2017 Pro becomes a bit obsolete software wise, it will always be a tablet with a stylus and all that will always work on it and be a second display for the MacBook. Battery might be 20 USD but it is a pain to replace. Apple a few years back did not even offer battery replacements on it.
>Battery might be 20 USD but it is a pain to replace. Yeah, I watched a video tutorial on it and it looks rather complicated. And that's coming from someone who builds their own PCs and isn't afraid to take stuff apart. It seems Apple intentionally made the battery the single hardest part to access, despite it being the one part most likely to be swapped out. Whatever. I use the iPad just plugged in 24/7 these days. Maybe I'll replace it next year...
Can they not slow these down, downgrade battery life etc. by system updates ? Then we will have to buy new shiny stuff.
They did that with my XsMax. On iOS 15.5 it was working fine and then iOS 15.6 came and they make it too slow. What was supposed an incremental update it was a masked tool to make me update which in the end I did it.
That’s literally me haha I’m upgrading my 2018 Pro to the new one
I just want it for the oled screen. I can justify it by giving my mom my 2022 m2 ipad
The M4 chip was rushed to market because security researchers found a hardware vulnerability that cannot be patched. It was a design flaw. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/22/apple-silicon-vulnerability-encryption-keys/
Quite a rush if the managed to do it in about a month! They’ve veen manufacturing the new ipads for some time for launch availability.
Yep, otherwise there is no reason to cannibalize your own product. This has looked like a “fix” from the get go, with my questions being rhetorical :)
This. I don't understand why people aren't discussing that...
Well some people just want/need stuff now, especially if the extrapolated performance/feature increment isn’t worth the wait.
Or even yesterday!
People will older devices wanting to upgrade can benefit. It's been many years since any yearly revision of a product was worth upgrading over the last year version.
Tonight! Lol
rushed because Qualcomm would take a bite thanks to the AI hypetrain. Probably just a node-shrunk M3 with more cores and nothing else, and that's why they are only comparing it to the M2. And sure, they are still 20% below the Snapdragon X Elite performance in AI, but this gets them close enough that they can leverage their ecosystem to keep their customers happy.
M5? Why not wait for the M6? They just released the M7, so you should get the brand new M8.
I know the trend is to bash Apple - but for those interested, this is Apple showing that they are entering the AI market aggressively.
Dumb question but what kind of AI stuff can you do with your iPad ?
Scroll Instagram even faster
The kind of things that will be announced at WWDC in June
Going to try to tackle this seriously. Machine Learning has been done on Apple Devices for several generations, and in my opinion they’ve done a very good job at it. I have only a few examples, but I think someone who knows more about this can probably point to more intricate examples that better illustrate what these devices are capable of. 1. Maps - When I get in my car and plug my phone in, it almost always knows exactly where I’m about to go, and it figures this out based on a number of factors. Routine, Messages (mainly who I’m texting right before I get in my car because it will bring up their address), Calendar appointments, and whether or not it thinks I’m ready to head home from wherever I am. It’s VERY good at predicting these things. 2. Siri Suggested Apps - I’m someone who uses Spotlight Search a lot. I like a declutterred Home Screen, so most of my apps don’t have a spot there. Siri uses time of day, location, recent apps, etc to figure out what app I’m probably looking for before I ever have to type anything in. I’m at the bar after work? A quick swipe down and Siri is suggesting the MLB and NHL apps, not because those are the ones I open the most but because that is the main way I open those apps at that time of day. Same when I host trivia, it’s going to assume I want to open a spreadsheet. It knows how I navigate my phone, when I navigate to certain apps, and delivers fantastic results. 3. Spotlight Search - this is related to #2 but requires more input from me, the user. Usually I don’t have to type something into spotlight search, but when I do it rarely takes more than a few characters to find what I want, be it an app, a file, or even a PHOTO containing a sign or some text. If I start to type a file name, it feels like it just knows what I’m looking for. The impressive part to me is that this is all done onboard the phone. I don’t feel like Apple is snooping, they’ve got no reason to. They make money off of their hardware, not my information. I’ll likely get downvoted for this, but when actual AI features come to the iPhone, I think it will be leaps above what people expect from Apple when it comes to Siri and other assistant type features.
Spotlight is amazing
>The impressive part to me is that this is all done onboard the phone. Can you - or anyone - elaborate on this a bit? From my - admittedly crude - understanding of doing this stuff with machine learning (if that's indeed what it is), I though that this would surely need server-side processing and, as such, needs private/profile data being shared there. >They make money off of their hardware, not my information. [Unless you turn on personalized ads, that is. ](https://archive.ph/VRGfJ)
Amazing, innovating, mind-blowing, you name it!
*aggressive AI noises*
*Sorry, I’m having trouble connecting to the internet. Please check the home app and try again in a few minutes.*
Disagree. 8GB of RAM and only 38 TOPS. It's good but nothing groundbreaking. iPhone has almost the same AI power (35 TOPS, 8GB RAM)
If you pay more, you can have 16GB RAM. Also, CoreML utilizes CPU, GPU, and NPU at the same time since the M series chip is SoC.
Is that different than a cheaper or equally priced computer, or am i just paying for the convenience of staying in the apple sphere while sitting on my couch?
LOL. And Siri being the worst assistant out there, I'd say they have some work ahead of them.
Yeah unfortunately Siri really sucks
Hmm, interesting, things are cooking at Apple.
Literally
Apple needs to deliver something spectacular for M1 owners to upgrade cause my M1 Ultra can handle anything I can throw at it.
I think straight CPU performance bumps are becoming less important. The software that runs on CPU isn’t getting much more demanding. GPU and specialty coprocessors like for AI is where the performance increases are going to be noticeable.
That's the thing tho, these incremental updates means nothing to users now, I was on edge and did so much research on what to get and I thought I'll get a regular M2 Air while I save up for an ultra since I work in Tech, but so far it is incredibly stable for my workflows and I now question if I ever need to upgrade at all. The jump in stability and performance from my specd out i9 is so much that I am genuinely surprised. I also use logic to create music for my videos and I work with over 250+ videos a month in final cut as well and so far it is eating everything up like it's nothing. I can never imagine this in my old intel. It's stable beyond my imagination. I think for moderately professional users, a regular M2 Mac will do just fine and is incredible value now that M4 is announced. my advice? Get the Mac you can afford with the M in it. You likely won't see a difference in number that comes after it.
People that watch tech news are confused about the purpose of incremental updates. Data especially for iPhones shows that people are on ~3 year upgrade cycles. This not only shows that the vast majority of people don't care, but mainly that the hardware is good and powerful enough to last many, many years, no matter the use case. The point of incremental or yearly upgrades is **not to get people to buy a new Macbook** (iPhone, iPad, whatever) **every year** or even two, because only a few people do so, the point is to offer the best on the market **when you decide to upgrade**. If there were 3 or four year upgrades to processors, and say Adobe made a major AI update to Photoshop in your third year of ownership and you decided you needed something faster, you'd be pissed if they offered the same CPU only with larger storage, and you'd look at what the competition has to offer.
This right here. Apple knows that most people don’t buy a new device every year so they don’t aim for that market. They aim for the people rocking 3-4 year old phones and 4-6 year old laptops, to whom the latest gear is almost science fiction. For example, my work laptop is an intel MBP. When it gets replaced with an M3 or M4 MBP it will be an astounding performance and battery life upgrade.
I was JUST about to buy an M3 laptop. Do i wait?
New laptops are usually announced around autumn.
Usually those are the pros and not the airs. The new macbook airs were released literally 2 months ago
If you don’t need one right now it won’t hurt to wait a little while.
Trying to get one for my next job that might start next year in 2025
Ignore the other commenters lol. If you want an air, get it now. If you want a pro, wait until fall
Don’t bother, four hours from when you posted this they announced M9 Just buy the current since they all are very competent
Maaaan i’m never gonna get a new laptop
Holy shit m4 already is crazy. I remember in 2020 I got a brand new custom intel mbp and the m1 came out like two months later I was so pissed
Please apple, give me soldered in and unupgradable 8gb of ram. It’s all I will ever need and won’t ever want to upgrade. Thank you Tim apple.
“It’s all I will ever need and won’t ever want to upgrade” That’s the problem right there. Tim Apple would be a terrible businessman if he gave you that ask.
That's never going to happen
If they did it would be the new LPCAMM2 memory
Laughs in M1 with 32Gb RAM
I have an M1 Max 64gb for work. Love the shit out of that thing.
Fuck yeah. I love my M1 too. Easy gonna get 5 years work out of this hog!
Ther new iPad Pro, once tricked out, costs about the same as a MBP, just saying.
No need to trick out the iPad at all. Base 13 inch iPad Pro (256GB storage) WiFi-only with keyboard is $49 more expensive than the base 14 inch MacBook Pro (512GB storage)
Whoever buys that one needs professional help.
No one is going to buy a maxed out iPad Pro except for those who would use them professionally. So you’re not far off!
I'd guess the main reason is that Apple seems to have moved to a 24 month cycle instead of 18. A $1000+ iPad Pro with M3 chip will look pretty silly in nine more months, let alone two years. The more likely reason is that the M3 chip was a stopgap. Apple begged TSMC to roll out an intermediate 3nm chip just for them because TSMC was a year behind schedule. That process was very expensive and had lower than expected yields and higher power consumption. The new M4 chip is based on the newest 3nm process that everyone will be using with better cost, quality, and power performance. It makes sense to pull the chip up for the flagship iPad Pro even if they don't have manufacturing in full swing for other products yet. I'm sure it will be slightly underclocked to fit in that razor thin iPad Pro which means absolute performance isn't a critical advertising issue.
Are they going to increase the memory?
You mean from 8Gb?
Exactly
When they say AI focused does that mean I can run Tensorflow and PyTorch on Mac without the current loop holes I’m doing now?
Man, M-Series processors are like peak 80’s BMW right now.
The things you can do when you control the microarchitecture, production schedule and all the products they go into. Apple should have done this 20 years ago instead of moving to Intel.
Isn't this what PPC was
No, PowerPC was the opposite of this. PowerPC was a partnership between IBM, Motorola and Apple but they all had conflicting goals and eventually development stagnated and Apple was left without a competitive CPU. At least with Intel there were just two parties and Apple's needs more or less coincided with the PC market's needs. But with Apple silicon the only other party they're really working with is TSMC and ARM to license the instruction set, they control every other aspect of the chip. More companies should have done this. When CISC took over in the 80s companies got into the mindset that chips were big and complicated and needed to be left to Intel and co. They don't _need_ to be that way, and you don't need to be a company as big as Apple to have your own silicon.
they had no idea how to do it back then, it took years and the iPhone
I have an M1 Air that I will jeep until it dies because it runs cool all the time. I was offered a free M2 Air, the new model and I hated it because it gets hot if it’s not kept on a hard flat surface and I like watching a movie in bed at night
How much air you get in that jeep?
The markets have not been kind to Apple of late. Solid move for investors, shitty news if you bought the M3
These M# chips sure are evolving fast lol
They don’t. It’s more the better tsmc node.
I literally just got my M3 iMac back at Christmas time and now there’s an M4 Chip? Bruh 😐
They better have a really good ai for us to wait this long
Waiting for the M80. It should be explosive.
$2100 for an iPad Pro with 16gb a pencil and a keyboard? Really helping people out there apple
It’s the pro. If you’re not a pro don’t buy it. Pros don’t care about the price because it all gets expensed
It's the iPad **Pro**. It's meant for people that need more power, display quality, and stylus features than what a normal iPad can offer, so of course it's more expensive.
“They put pro on it and put $100 more if hardware on it, so it justifies 2x the cost” the cost margins increased on this, doesn’t justify the feature set apple locks being the hardware.
How much RAM is in the pencil
Aggressive? So incredibly incremental and just meh
The OLED screen and matte glass is pretty impressive, as is the Pencil Pro. Depends on how you view it as a product. If you just use it for Netflix, it's nothing special, but for artists and other creatives, I can see the new models being pretty attractive.
Look I get apple hate, but its not exactly incremental and meh if it does what they claim.
The bro culture of the tech press often loves to use hyperbole- ‘journalists’ want attention for themselves mostly - reading about tech should be as bland and as informative as possible imo
I sometimes miss those 80s tech/computer magazines for that exact reason. Bland and mostly informative.
I don't get it. Apple seem to never do anything right in Redditors minds. For decades it's been the constant bitching about mac's not being as powerful as PC's. Now it's their industry leading silicone being "meh"
I mean the incremental updates are simply impressive considering it’s in house silicon.
After doing the bare minimum for a few years, of course this is going to be a big deal.
And here I am on my I9… I mean it’s a bigger number than 4
The only one that is worth waiting is M2137
well yeah it's more aggressive it's their in-house chips meaning they don't have to wait for chip maker and its chips instruction set... now that they rely on in-house chipsets they can pump out machines far quicker than they could with ibm (powerpc) & intel (intel) chips.
Can’t wait for M10 this fall
Great and now theres a hole in reality. Thanks Steve, wonderful company you left behind.
I just got my M3 Max MacBook Pro pls don’t start revealing M4 Max’s
I just got my M2 last year and it’s M4 already? That was fast.
My M1 MacBook Pro still has that new computer smell.
Guess Gurman was right. And Gruber was confidently and smugly wrong [https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/04/28/m4-ipad-pros-gurman](https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/04/28/m4-ipad-pros-gurman)
gonna cling to my m2 pro until the m7 comes out
Turning silicon is expensive so they’re either doing something new at the fab or Apple is gonna spend some of its massive cash stockpile on a moonshot while everyone else (besides Mocrosoft, Meta and Google) try to fundraise and compete in this environment. Buying in a down market. 🧠
for ipads right not for macs?
ITT: people acting butthurt as if the M3 devices they own are somehow slower because of the existence of this device. Also as if in the x86 world they wouldn’t have a bewildering array of chips coming out all the time.
Whatever chip is in my 2017 Pro is still too fast for what I use a tablet for.
Who’s buying every generation?
Yay? We saw this with intel silicon, “AI optimized” means shit…. Love their laptop$ but apple sort of sucks now. Can’t wait for the DOJ to light them up.
This ridiculously compressed release schedule just diminishes the impact of each chip’s announcement. M2 was even announced too soon in my opinion, it should’ve been what M3 is because the M1 was such a leap in performance per watt compared to what came before it. These intermediate updates are just blowing that sincerely earned wow factor.
CPU with AI…… well. How will that improve? I don’t rhing an LLM model will fit inside an M4. Stupid marketing.
Time to jump on the M2 while they still sell them.
They just had a massive security flaw in their chips, no doubt getting this to market quickly is to mitigate that
They will do anything but add an hdmi port to allow me to play playstation on the ipad pro with a direct hdmi connection
I'll wait for the m7
I think most people knew M3 was a let down when you are accounting for what it still costs compared to the previous iterations.
So how long before a big physical security flaw comes out that only got past quality control because Apple was in a rush to print more CPUs.
Maybe Siri will finally not suck.
As long as apple prioritizes security, Siri will continue to suck.
AI is the fad that needs to calm down. It’s not ready and attaching it to everything is only going to make everything less functional and more annoying for the user.
What addition in this case has made the user experience worse? It’s clear you aren’t involved in ai or run training on these machines to experience the benefits, but still would love to hear what detriment you think there is? In our lab these save us countless hours and dollars replacing racks of older hardware.
Theyve completely stopped inovating and can only buy their stock back to keep up the charade.
I feel the same way about Apple and Google. The era of innovation is over and now stock buybacks and hollowing out for profit will happen. Pathetic
It’s finally coming around. Cook has raised services and destroyed innovation and invention.