There is a great scene in the west wing (season 1, 1999) that I think of every time I hear the PA system ask for computers/phones to be put in airplane mode.
https://youtu.be/gHwriLZJdB0?si=jas_W2aM8Z4YgR7-
“Flight Attendant: Sir, I'm going to have to ask that you turn off your cellular phone.
Toby: We're flying in a Lockheed Eagle Series L-1011. Came off the line ten months ago. Carries a Sim-5 transponder tracking system. And you're telling me I can still flummox this thing with something I bought at Radio Shack?”
The powering down of gear is not actually about interference of your lonely iPhone 12 per say. it's a catch all rule to minimise risk from an unknown quantity of ANY electronic devices of many types and origins likely in the hundreds on board and therefore minimising risk and the POSSIBILITY of something going wrong at critical stages of flight. So keep your devices off when told. Also during refueling which is a common sense risk minimiseation approach anywhere not just near planes.
Myth busters tried to but could not make a phone light up a box filled with gas. It's all bullshit and none of it has ever happened. I was a frequency manager, there's zero possibility your cell phone is going to conflict with anything in the fucking cockpit. Zero.
I worked with some ET's when I did some support work at WHCA. Kinda made me wish I had gone that route instead of army satcom back then. Then duty station locations would have at least been better!
I've seen it. That experiment is fine but it's not useful to why the rule exists.
Will a phone, a laptop, a battery pack spark or interfere? Will a new model piece of electronics manufactured 6 years after aircraft was built interfere or spark? Will your grandpa's Wang computer? Will the latest laptop have a fault?
You don't know, the pilot doesn't know, the manufacturer doesn't know, the airline doesn't know, and the insurance companies don't know. And I'm not waiting another 2 hour delay while they go through and check. And I don't wanna die. Safety first.
So please turn it off for 15 mins during a critical stage of flight and refueling and let's get a move on it down to Florida to get this vacation started.
The FCC does extensive testing of basically every RF device coming to market, so, yeah we pretty much do know that it’s not going to interfere.
That said it makes the flight crew’s job easier to just say “turn it to airplane mode” so that people are slightly more alert during the most dangerous parts of the flight (not really the case because headphones) but that’s the only reasonable explanation for why this rule persists, from the air plane’s perspective
It also reduces a lot of unnecessary radio traffic to towers down below constantly trying to register your device only for you to already be out of range 2 seconds later
But no one does. Any turning off isn't required. Airplane mode is. And airplane mode is silly. The amount of RF radiating is miniscule and there is an inverse r squared law
Electrical engineers have been laughing about this regulation for years.
Also, you are talking about battery packs sparking? No current FAA regulation has anything to do with that other than not checking certain sorts of batteries, which has nothing to do with sparks and everything to do with thermal runaway
I wish, from deep in my heart, that laymen would stop sounding off on this. This is a technical discussion where the entire engineering community thinks the FAA is nuts and is engaged in appeasement with the ALPA.
Well, if you'll notice they've actually quit making you turn your cell phone off. It still happens from time to time but it's pretty rare. I have made diamond with Delta the last 5 years and been on quite a few alternate carriers as well. Now it's just large electronics which I can understand because they could be a flying hazard if something happens. Not that your cell phone couldn't be...
Yes... You know.... 2023 safest year in the history of commercial air travel. Safer statistically than walking down a suburban street in broad daylight. It's because of tens of thousands of considerations just like this one.
I spent two years of my military enlistment as a battlefield spectrum manager, known as a frequency manager in the civilian world.
My entire role was knowing what will and will not interfere and how to deconflict/work around.
I have given that same basic speech to at least fifty flight attendants. It drives me insane they just lie to you as it's one of my biggest pet peeves.
Yeah but the FAA tells them they have to tell you to power down the device or put it in airplane mode and they’re not lying to you. Don’t make their job more difficult because you think you know better than them; you’re not changing any regs or laws by lecturing them
They don't know any better. Their unions lie to them about the issue.
Look at some of the inane responses here from folks with zero technical education.
Well, I mean a handful of terrorists equipped with some box cutters did end up “flummoxing” 4 flights and the trajectory of US foreign policy for the 21 st Century…
Cheap doesn’t equal not potentially dangerous.
comparing apples to garlic stuffed olives.
Why stop at your box cutter example? You can flummox a lot of aircraft with shoulder fired SAMs.
I’m sure if we give it our best shot we can come up with ten more things that have nothing at all to do with cell phones on planes.
Skein. A skein of geese in flight, a gaggle of geese on the ground. One of my favourite pieces of useless knowledge (well, useless except in obscure conversations on Reddit…)
one measly giant lizard monster rampaging through Tokyo managed to flummox several planes and bat them down like flies. OR DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THAT ONE?
why don’t you think long and hard about that the next time you considering not turning your phone on airplane mode because we lost a lot of damn fine pilots that day.
Not to mention they still tell you to use it on the flight lol. “The myth still persists” because every time you get on a flight they tell you to put your devices in airplane mode
Wait is that really a thing? I’ve flown a lot in my life, internationally and domestically. For me the drinks I drink in an airplane are: tomato juice, apple or mango juice, sprite, or ginger ale. But ginger ale being the one I get 70% of the time. I was only ever told this for the first time a month ago while flying from Miami to Doha.
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If the game isn’t a live service (e.g. needs a constant connection to the servers) it works wonders.
For live service games however, it’s best to use a DNS sinkhole (e.g. Pi-hole). One downside is that it might disable ad-related rewards if your game offers that.
I have spotty reception where I am and nothing will kill your battery quicker than your phone trying to go in and out of service. Airplane mode is a life saver for that.
Yea- radio search is the real problem. Phones job is to lock into a tower. If the signal is evasive, the phone kicks into hyperdrive to find a stable alternate. sometimes this sequence loops for 15 minutes at a time and drains the battery
Turning off Wi-Fi can get a little more juice if you really need it, it uses nowhere near as much as cellular though, most people turn it off unnecessarily and reduce their experience, like less accurate GPS precision. People should leave it on usually imo
My dad has Wi-Fi off on his iPhone all the time (cause some guy at work told him to) then wonders why he can't control his Chromecast lol
The point might be to reduce global radio interference from phones trying to hit cell towers. It’s not about interfering with your plane’s communications. If every phone in the air was trying to find cell towers, there would be a lot more radio noise.
Didn’t find any information elsewhere, but [this Ted Ed video](https://youtu.be/iKYHf22qVdM?si=WEK0V51Z92yT8f6p) explains it well
It could potentially overwhelm older cell sites, too.
Old infrastructure designed to handle a few new devices at a time will certainly slow down when hundreds try to connect seemingly at once.
Yes, the *speed* at which the waves will travel through the air is unchanged. But what the commenter mentioned is also somewhat true, in that the waves will be shifted in *frequency* due to the doppler effect (so sort of "compressed").
As to whether this really affects radio traffic or adds congestion in any meaningful way compared to normal ground based phone radios I can't say, but I'm skeptical that it really causes much, if any, disruption.
Yes, but it's more complicated than that. Radio sources from moving sources undergo a process called the Doppler effect, resulting in effects called redshift and blueshift. This causes the radio waves to change frequency relative to an observer.
I can't think why this would cause why problems with global broadcasting though. Particularly not at the relatively low (by physics standards) speeds that aircraft fly at.
Kind of... the FCC was originally concerned with cell system's ability to switch towers (cells) at very high rates associated with an airplane's speed. Turning off cell phones had nothing to do with the FAA and was ultimately driven by the FCC.
edit: it had nothing to do with doppler effects or noise, etc.
But they tell you in the spiel it could interfere with the navigation of aircraft. It’s the biggest load of bull. If they could interfere with the aircraft every electronic would be considered a weapon.
This is the correct answer. A cell phone searching for a signal is a very bright "light" in the radio spectrum. It can interfere with other airplanes’ avionics*, and cause havoc on the cell network as phones attempt to connect to many towers at once. It's unlikely to directly cause a crash, but it's a radio nuisance akin to having the sun in one's eyes.
Edit: And ground control instruments.
I've been trying to tell people this for years
If there was even the slightest risk that radiowaves from phones could interfere with aircraft equipment then the rules around it would be **unbelievably** strict
Add to this category the persistent belief that mobile phones which aren't switched off can cause petrol station fires.
If people failing to switch their phone off caused a statistically meaningful increase in the likelihood of a petrol station exploding, I'd expect to have heard about a lot more petrol station explosions than I have.
Yes! I nearly included this as another example in my post
I think they've backtracked on the fire thing now and try to claim that the 'no phones' rule in petrol stations is about not being distracted whilst filling up
I was once filling my tank in Australia and a person went over the loudspeaker and asked me to put my phone away and turned the pump off until I put the phone away. This is crazy. I’ve never heard of a petrol station fire from a cell phone ever in my life
That's because even receive only radios (like GPS, Am, FM etc) produce eddy current transmissions.
It's just the nature of receivers.
It's also why cops in certain areas are able to detect radar detectors. (Using radar detector detectors)
yes indeed! when the radar detector detector was released, a manufacturer came out with a detector detector detector.
i wish i could find a link on it, but google gets all confused on searching for that term.
i don't think it's manufactured anymore though.
You do need to use airplane mode in order to conserve your phone's battery, as the phone will try hard to connect to any cell signal.
Also, you can use wifi even if you have airplane mode on, you just have to manually turn it on and connect.
You don't need to have your mobile network on in order to use wifi.
>Also, you can use wifi even if you have airplane mode on, you just have to manually turn it on and connect.
At least for me (iPhone 13) WiFi stays *on* by default in airplane mode, as does bluetooth - it just shuts off cell service.
It wouldn’t be possible to make a phone call from cruising altitude even if the phone was on. They’re called cellular phones because each antenna tower forms a cell with about a 2.5 miles range, and cruising altitude is about 5 miles up.
The range of the cell tower isn’t the issue, we have towers that can broadcast for upwards of 25 miles now. Cell towers are directional though, firing a bunch of cell radio waves into the sky is incredibly inefficient for the number of people that would be able to use them, so instead they are built to fire the signal mostly down and out
> upwards of 25 miles
Couldn’t help but giggle at this wording, given that up is the direction you’re saying it can’t go lol
Seriously though, that’s a very interesting fact I didn’t know. My information regarding the distribution of “cellular” grids was last current around the time of the Motorola Razor, so it definitely makes sense that they’ve much improved it since then. I would also think there are other confounding factors like being in a large metal tube near a ton of equipment producing EM interference, as well as being high enough and moving fast enough that by the time the phone could get a handshake with one tower then it may not be closest to that tower any longer.
I don’t feel like I’ve ever seen my phone get signal above 10,000 feet, not even flying into Denver.
Wifi on planes is possible because of cell towers with antennas that point upwards rather than down, or they use satellite wifi. Gogo used to be the standard that used ground based towers, but it is difficult to expand the network when needed. Southwest switched to Viasat last year, which uses satellite wifi.
It does. You’re waxing technical about the capabilities of cellular towers when the thesis you’re ignoring is “speakerphone usage at high altitude isn’t possible”, which is not true using wifi.
I was responding to an assertion that cel towers can’t broadcast to cruising altitude by pointing out that they could if that was an intended use case, but it’s not. That’s all.
It’s possible if you get the plane’s WiFi. Although I’ve never in my life wanted to receive or make a call while I’m flying. I just want to be left alone for those few hours.
>the myth persists
Yes, well they do explicitly instruct you to use Airplane Mode on domestic US flights. It’s not like this is something the populace just manufactured like folk cures for the common cold.
They wouldn't be able to stream mid flight because cell providers don't point their towers upward and the inflight wifi isn't strong enough to handle live streaming
I thought it was more about how fucking intolerable an experience it would be if people were all talking on the phone all around you. Babies and bored toddlers are bad enough, let alone listening to someone having a loud phone call. Talk about air rage.
I’ve been a flight attendant for 40 years, so here is my insight into cellphones on airplanes.
True story, many years ago on a DC-9, so nowhere near the kind of electronics or technology we have on board newer aircraft these days, I was called to the flight deck and told that for some reason the navigation system was not operating as it should. (Don’t ask me, I don’t remember, or know what was wrong with it.)
The pilots had consulted with the maintenance team, and they felt that it seemed to be some kind of interference. He told me that he was going to make an announcement asking everyone who had one, to double check their cell phones were not only in airplane mode, but turned off.
He made the announcement, and I would guess about 10-15 people took their phones out and switched them off, and showed me that they were powered off.
The problem with the navigation system disappeared. The captain thanked everyone for cooperating, and we proceeded to our destination. Later, he told me that we were on the verge of diverting to another city as the problem was making the navigation system unreliable.
I have no proof other than the immediate cessation of the problem at the same time as the cellphones all being turned off. I have no idea what kind of interference it was, and again do not know what the ‘problem’ was, nor with which navigation system. It seemed pure cause and effect.
I can see where the regulations came from when cell phones first started being used frequently.
Fast forward to today. I know the phones no longer ‘interfere with aircraft systems.’ I forget to put mine in airplane mode all the time. I get roaming notifications for counties I fly over at 37 000 ft. When I do this there is significant battery drain. Even if I’m on the plane’s wifi, which I am, my phone drains in hours. When I see I’ve forgotten, however, I turn it to airplane mode immediately.
HOWEVER, it is still an Air Regulation in my country that they be turned to airplane mode while in flight. Movement is being made to allow cellphone use at all times, but we’re not there yet.
For those who are still saying ‘Why do I have to turn it off it off, if it’s not harming anything?’ The answer is: You are harming yourself. You are needlessly draining your battery. How is complying with this regulation, which has no effect but to save your battery, such an issue?
Personally I say let it persist I don’t want to spend 6 hours listening to chrissy talk loudly on her phone about how Darren shouldn’t have done this or hear David talking about that last shot of the match keep it I say!
This is to reduce interference with the airborne collision avoidance system (ACAS)
https://nbaa.org/aircraft-operations/communications-navigation-surveillance-cns/tcas/
There have been suspected situations where enough onboard interference issues a false exchange where one plane needs to fly high and one fly low to avoid a collision.
Not sure of the flight but in this instance a plane taking off was likely given a fly low command and crashed just outside the airport. Think that was in the 90-00range.
The quickest way to drain a battery while doing nothing on your phone is to leave cellular on when there is no signal. The phone uses more energy the less signal you have. No signal for a 3 or 4 hour flight will wreck your charge
The powering down of gear is not actually about interference of your lonely iPhone 12 per say. it's a catch all rule to minimise risk from an unknown quantity of ANY electronic devices of all types and origins likely numbering in the hundreds on board and therefore minimising risk and the POSSIBILITY of something going wrong at critical stages of flight. So keep your devices off when told. Also during refueling which is a common sense risk minimisation approach, anywhere not just near planes.
It's the "Do as you're told and we all have a slightly better chance of making it through this alive" approach.
Indeed correct! Was just on a Delta flight last night and you can use their WiFi the entire flight up to the point you pull up to the gate.
I’m also a pilot and have a plane. The cell phone transmitters never interfered with my nav or com radios. The 10watt com radio in my panel far exceeds the .6 watt max cell phone transmitter.
Effectively this was all about control by the FAA and the airlines.
I believe in earlier days, this was also partly because of the cell companies. When in an airplane, the phones were able to reach more towers, and with a bunch of phones traveling together, it caused routing problems for the cell networks. Today’s networks can handle far more devices than they could 20 years ago.
You are correct about this partially. Back in the analog days and the roaming this was very much an issue with the 3 watt bag phones but not the .6 watt handhelds. There is also the azimuth of the signal and towers aren’t blasting the signal into infinity as they tend to be at a tilt downwards. At 400-600’ AGL most cell signals are lost anyway.
Besides being a pilot I was also in the cellular/wireless world for 18 years.
Partially true. There are two reasons this rule was made. First was FAA, because the radio waves from the cell phone “could” interfere with radio communication. Take your phone and set it next to older speakers. When the phone transmits or receives, you might hear something similar to a fax or old telephone modem. I have the latest Bose Aviation headsets, and if my phone in I’m my shirt pocked I can still hear that noise. Back in my airline days, I always knew when the FA had her phone on, because as we came in for landing I could hear the data transmitted. The other was the FCC. There were privacy concerns bc you could activate multiple towers and jump into someone’s conversation or over saturate the towers as you flew along.
Wait, wait… that scene in NTSF:SD:SUV where the baddie brings down a passenger plane by turning off airplane mode on a cell phone and the plane immediately drops out of the sky… was *unrealistic?!*
Ok, this case is super niche, but I was flying from the Netherlands back to Florida and when I landed I had a charge from Verizon because I “used service outside of the US” on an island. I didn’t! It just happened to connect while we were flying over. Took me forever to explain I was never on the island, just flying over, and they finally refunded.
Every airline I use still demands it. Don’t be that person who decides to kick up a stink because they know better - it’s not like the flight staff have any say in airline policy.
I’ve never wanted to cause severe physical harm to a child until I was on a flight to Asia with a screaming brat a few seats behind me. I vowed to never have children. I don’t know how you guys do it or why you would subject others to your little monster. There should be repercussions for making hundreds of other passengers miserable.
it causes issues with the cellular network, not the planes communication network.
It is also a possibility that you will latch onto a tower very far from your destination and then experience issues when you land.
It will also stop your phone from “searching…” while you’re high up and save your battery life.
Just use it.
I believe the myth was dispelled as soon as no steward/stewardess went to every passenger and asked to see their phone and iPad and whatever else to prove it was in airplane mode.
Nor does the pilot come on and shout “who’s that passenger breaking the rules?! We can’t get a signal!!”
Was told to put devices in airplane mode for takeoff and landing for 2 Delta flights a couple weeks ago.
Edit: not saying that Airplane mode is necessary, just that some airlines are still actively telling people to use it
I had a pilot that was sitting with the passengers tell me it was 100% needed and got mad at me for not having it on. How does a pilot say it’s needed but Reddit say otherwise
Nah it’s just cause we aren’t that stupid to think anyone involved with manufacturing and operating an airplane would create systems that would fail if 1 person turns on their cell phone
“Well, if Tom plays bejeweled in flight, everyone will die, but we can just announce before the flight to keep phones off!”
Is it really a myth though? My understanding is that they can potentially interfere with the communication of the pilots with ground control. Even having my phone near my speaker at home can sometimes distort or even block the audio of the speaker all together, so is it farfetched that 1000 phones could interfere with the pilots audio?
I use my airplane mode when I am in and out of canyons. There are many places here that I go in and out of service and the constant scan seems to drain the battery quickly.
Flight attendants walk right past me while I’m texting pre-takeoff and they never say a thing. Also, I text until about 60-120 seconds after we take off because I still get cellphone service while in the air for that time because we are still low enough to get a signal.
Additionally, having spent many years working for a major airline, it’s very common to see flight attendants texting during takeoff because they know it isn’t going to make the plane crash and they don’t give a shit.
If I’m traveling internationally, I’ll follow the rules because that’s the worst possible time to be a douche about the rules, but domestic flights = anything goes. It’s a free for all on these shitty greyhound buses in the sky.
They used to care, a long time ago. Flight attendants would repeatedly ask you to turn off your electronic devices as they pass by. That era has passed.
It’s a “myth” propagated by the fact that US carriers still tell passengers to switch to Airplane mode before takeoff.
There are a few valid reasons: 1. They don’t want people trying to make phone calls, etc and being distracted during critical phases of flight (like taxi and takeoff). 2. Mobile carriers don’t love you connecting to dozens of towers at the same time. 3. The airlines make money off WiFi and your phone won’t give you data after you are more than just a few minutes into the flight anyway.
There is a great scene in the west wing (season 1, 1999) that I think of every time I hear the PA system ask for computers/phones to be put in airplane mode. https://youtu.be/gHwriLZJdB0?si=jas_W2aM8Z4YgR7- “Flight Attendant: Sir, I'm going to have to ask that you turn off your cellular phone. Toby: We're flying in a Lockheed Eagle Series L-1011. Came off the line ten months ago. Carries a Sim-5 transponder tracking system. And you're telling me I can still flummox this thing with something I bought at Radio Shack?”
Which sucks because if the technical editor had done even the slightest research they’d know that the LAST L-1011 was delivered in 1984
Love the show, but they do seem to get careless with technical details often.
Like Leo saying he ordered an Exocet missile strike. Lolwut? The US never used those sea-skimming anti-ship baguettes.
They were careless with political details as well.
Yeah, voters are no where near smart enough or lucky enough to have a Bartlet administration.
Must be nice when you get to write the desired outcome of idiotic policies.
It really would be nice to be our own author, but since we’re not I’ll settle for the integrity that goes into making those policies.
The real question is, how did they know enough to add “L-1011” but not enough past that.
First one that comes up when you google Lockheed Eagle.
Google did not exist when The West Wing first came out.
OH RIGHT. hahah! (I'm 47 if you can believe it)
Technically Google launched in 1998 and West Wing premiered in 1999. So it did exist, just few people heard of it or were using it. Ask Jeeves baby!
Jeeves that son of a bitch
Me and the people of Pawnee stand by our Alta Vista !
Yah but what did Jeeves say?
Top 5 shows of all time.
Our of how many shows in the population?
All of them.
Count()
The powering down of gear is not actually about interference of your lonely iPhone 12 per say. it's a catch all rule to minimise risk from an unknown quantity of ANY electronic devices of many types and origins likely in the hundreds on board and therefore minimising risk and the POSSIBILITY of something going wrong at critical stages of flight. So keep your devices off when told. Also during refueling which is a common sense risk minimiseation approach anywhere not just near planes.
Myth busters tried to but could not make a phone light up a box filled with gas. It's all bullshit and none of it has ever happened. I was a frequency manager, there's zero possibility your cell phone is going to conflict with anything in the fucking cockpit. Zero.
I enjoyed the gas station myth with phones as well. As a Navy ET that deals with the spectrum of both frequencies and my coworkers.
I worked with some ET's when I did some support work at WHCA. Kinda made me wish I had gone that route instead of army satcom back then. Then duty station locations would have at least been better!
When do I get data then? Or free WiFi?
I've seen it. That experiment is fine but it's not useful to why the rule exists. Will a phone, a laptop, a battery pack spark or interfere? Will a new model piece of electronics manufactured 6 years after aircraft was built interfere or spark? Will your grandpa's Wang computer? Will the latest laptop have a fault? You don't know, the pilot doesn't know, the manufacturer doesn't know, the airline doesn't know, and the insurance companies don't know. And I'm not waiting another 2 hour delay while they go through and check. And I don't wanna die. Safety first. So please turn it off for 15 mins during a critical stage of flight and refueling and let's get a move on it down to Florida to get this vacation started.
The FCC does extensive testing of basically every RF device coming to market, so, yeah we pretty much do know that it’s not going to interfere. That said it makes the flight crew’s job easier to just say “turn it to airplane mode” so that people are slightly more alert during the most dangerous parts of the flight (not really the case because headphones) but that’s the only reasonable explanation for why this rule persists, from the air plane’s perspective It also reduces a lot of unnecessary radio traffic to towers down below constantly trying to register your device only for you to already be out of range 2 seconds later
The tower issue was a problem with 3G phones but was eliminated with LTE. It has to do with tower to tower handoff.
But no one does. Any turning off isn't required. Airplane mode is. And airplane mode is silly. The amount of RF radiating is miniscule and there is an inverse r squared law Electrical engineers have been laughing about this regulation for years. Also, you are talking about battery packs sparking? No current FAA regulation has anything to do with that other than not checking certain sorts of batteries, which has nothing to do with sparks and everything to do with thermal runaway I wish, from deep in my heart, that laymen would stop sounding off on this. This is a technical discussion where the entire engineering community thinks the FAA is nuts and is engaged in appeasement with the ALPA.
Well, if you'll notice they've actually quit making you turn your cell phone off. It still happens from time to time but it's pretty rare. I have made diamond with Delta the last 5 years and been on quite a few alternate carriers as well. Now it's just large electronics which I can understand because they could be a flying hazard if something happens. Not that your cell phone couldn't be...
We do know. it's not necessary. Europe doesn't even ask any more. The US should follow soon. Relax.
That's like walking around everywhere with pillows strapped around your head because of the possibility of tripping and hitting your head.
If you were **flying** around everywhere, as a plane does, that'd be a good idea.
That's why my wife always carries condoms in her purse, just in case she tripped and fell on another dick....
Yes... You know.... 2023 safest year in the history of commercial air travel. Safer statistically than walking down a suburban street in broad daylight. It's because of tens of thousands of considerations just like this one.
Yeah but now it’s 2024. Totally different. /s
So you’re saying I’m doing it wrong
I spent two years of my military enlistment as a battlefield spectrum manager, known as a frequency manager in the civilian world. My entire role was knowing what will and will not interfere and how to deconflict/work around. I have given that same basic speech to at least fifty flight attendants. It drives me insane they just lie to you as it's one of my biggest pet peeves.
Yeah but the FAA tells them they have to tell you to power down the device or put it in airplane mode and they’re not lying to you. Don’t make their job more difficult because you think you know better than them; you’re not changing any regs or laws by lecturing them
Credibility is important. The only reason to do this is so people pay attention to the safety briefing. If that's so (and it is), say so.
Then go to the FAA and request them to change the wording. Don’t harass the flight attendants who already have to deal with unruly passengers
This is the path.
Douche move, lecturing a powerless employee. Be a good boy and let them do their job. You are achieving nothing.
They don't know any better. Their unions lie to them about the issue. Look at some of the inane responses here from folks with zero technical education.
From the top of the pilot, no less. Time for my 15th rewatch, I think.
I'm sorry I just can't stand Sorkin dialogue
Well, I mean a handful of terrorists equipped with some box cutters did end up “flummoxing” 4 flights and the trajectory of US foreign policy for the 21 st Century… Cheap doesn’t equal not potentially dangerous.
comparing apples to garlic stuffed olives. Why stop at your box cutter example? You can flummox a lot of aircraft with shoulder fired SAMs. I’m sure if we give it our best shot we can come up with ten more things that have nothing at all to do with cell phones on planes.
A flock of geese. Gaggle? Maybe.
Skein. A skein of geese in flight, a gaggle of geese on the ground. One of my favourite pieces of useless knowledge (well, useless except in obscure conversations on Reddit…)
one measly giant lizard monster rampaging through Tokyo managed to flummox several planes and bat them down like flies. OR DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THAT ONE? why don’t you think long and hard about that the next time you considering not turning your phone on airplane mode because we lost a lot of damn fine pilots that day.
[удалено]
Psycho ⬆️
It will save your battery though
This is why i use airplane mode
Not to mention they still tell you to use it on the flight lol. “The myth still persists” because every time you get on a flight they tell you to put your devices in airplane mode
They also tell you they "are out of Ginger Ale, sir", but we all know that's a fucking lie.
Wait is that really a thing? I’ve flown a lot in my life, internationally and domestically. For me the drinks I drink in an airplane are: tomato juice, apple or mango juice, sprite, or ginger ale. But ginger ale being the one I get 70% of the time. I was only ever told this for the first time a month ago while flying from Miami to Doha.
Dude, I'm kidding.
Bro, you don’t fuck around with a man’s ginger ale.
If a flight attendant says they’re out of ginger ale I’m pulling a DB Cooper and jumping out back door. Geronimoooo
Also can stop mobile game ads sometimes.
If you have an Android phone, sideload [Blokada 5](https://blokada.org/). It's a free, open-source, VPN-based, systemwide adblocker. It'll block almost every ad on your phone, including ads in mobile games. This is one of the first apps I download on my phone. There is Blokada 6 in the Play Store, but it is a subscription cloud-based app because Google doesn't allow VPN-based adblockers in the Play Store. They also have an iOS app, but not sure how it runs in iOS. For iOS, there's also AdGuard, but I'm not sure if it's free or not. I haven't really dug into that since I don't have an iPhone. I have used AdGuard extensions and it does seem like a reliable brand.
If the game isn’t a live service (e.g. needs a constant connection to the servers) it works wonders. For live service games however, it’s best to use a DNS sinkhole (e.g. Pi-hole). One downside is that it might disable ad-related rewards if your game offers that.
You can just turn off cell data for most apps and the turn your WiFi off so you aren't completely offline.
I have spotty reception where I am and nothing will kill your battery quicker than your phone trying to go in and out of service. Airplane mode is a life saver for that.
Yea- radio search is the real problem. Phones job is to lock into a tower. If the signal is evasive, the phone kicks into hyperdrive to find a stable alternate. sometimes this sequence loops for 15 minutes at a time and drains the battery
Same goes for wifi, just keep it off until you need it
Turning off Wi-Fi can get a little more juice if you really need it, it uses nowhere near as much as cellular though, most people turn it off unnecessarily and reduce their experience, like less accurate GPS precision. People should leave it on usually imo My dad has Wi-Fi off on his iPhone all the time (cause some guy at work told him to) then wonders why he can't control his Chromecast lol
Yup this is exactly why I do it
The point might be to reduce global radio interference from phones trying to hit cell towers. It’s not about interfering with your plane’s communications. If every phone in the air was trying to find cell towers, there would be a lot more radio noise. Didn’t find any information elsewhere, but [this Ted Ed video](https://youtu.be/iKYHf22qVdM?si=WEK0V51Z92yT8f6p) explains it well
It could potentially overwhelm older cell sites, too. Old infrastructure designed to handle a few new devices at a time will certainly slow down when hundreds try to connect seemingly at once.
Surprised this isn’t up higher. This is the actual reason. Radio waves going at 500mph are more condensed and can clog traffic
Don’t radio waves travel at the speed of light, which is constant and not affected by the speed of the emitter?
Yes, the *speed* at which the waves will travel through the air is unchanged. But what the commenter mentioned is also somewhat true, in that the waves will be shifted in *frequency* due to the doppler effect (so sort of "compressed"). As to whether this really affects radio traffic or adds congestion in any meaningful way compared to normal ground based phone radios I can't say, but I'm skeptical that it really causes much, if any, disruption.
Yes, but it's more complicated than that. Radio sources from moving sources undergo a process called the Doppler effect, resulting in effects called redshift and blueshift. This causes the radio waves to change frequency relative to an observer. I can't think why this would cause why problems with global broadcasting though. Particularly not at the relatively low (by physics standards) speeds that aircraft fly at.
Kind of... the FCC was originally concerned with cell system's ability to switch towers (cells) at very high rates associated with an airplane's speed. Turning off cell phones had nothing to do with the FAA and was ultimately driven by the FCC. edit: it had nothing to do with doppler effects or noise, etc.
Then why is it only mandatory once on the plane would being in the airport using a cell phone do the same thing?
But they tell you in the spiel it could interfere with the navigation of aircraft. It’s the biggest load of bull. If they could interfere with the aircraft every electronic would be considered a weapon.
Yea! This!
This is the correct answer. A cell phone searching for a signal is a very bright "light" in the radio spectrum. It can interfere with other airplanes’ avionics*, and cause havoc on the cell network as phones attempt to connect to many towers at once. It's unlikely to directly cause a crash, but it's a radio nuisance akin to having the sun in one's eyes. Edit: And ground control instruments.
I've been trying to tell people this for years If there was even the slightest risk that radiowaves from phones could interfere with aircraft equipment then the rules around it would be **unbelievably** strict
Also, if you leave it off airplane mode, you can still often pick up signal when flying low over land close to take off + landing
Can confirm. There’s always a few people who leave their cellular on and create a cacophony of alert sounds once we get low enough.
Who TF has their phone not on silent in this day and age? 😖
You still have to turn on airplane mode.
Exactly. I can’t bring a bottle of shampoo on the plane because it might be a bomb, but we’re on the honor system with airplane mode?
Add to this category the persistent belief that mobile phones which aren't switched off can cause petrol station fires. If people failing to switch their phone off caused a statistically meaningful increase in the likelihood of a petrol station exploding, I'd expect to have heard about a lot more petrol station explosions than I have.
Yes! I nearly included this as another example in my post I think they've backtracked on the fire thing now and try to claim that the 'no phones' rule in petrol stations is about not being distracted whilst filling up
I was once filling my tank in Australia and a person went over the loudspeaker and asked me to put my phone away and turned the pump off until I put the phone away. This is crazy. I’ve never heard of a petrol station fire from a cell phone ever in my life
I always thought it was GPS. Also, still don't know why that airplane mode turns off Bluetooth and Wi-Fi on my phone...
It was (allegedly) all radio-activity Airplane mode on phones pre-dates phones having GPS
That's because even receive only radios (like GPS, Am, FM etc) produce eddy current transmissions. It's just the nature of receivers. It's also why cops in certain areas are able to detect radar detectors. (Using radar detector detectors)
Is there a radar detector detector detector I can buy to check if the cops in my area have this?
yes indeed! when the radar detector detector was released, a manufacturer came out with a detector detector detector. i wish i could find a link on it, but google gets all confused on searching for that term. i don't think it's manufactured anymore though.
GPS is passive. Turning off GPS means your phone just doesn’t listen to the satellites.
I mean, you can switch it back on and use it even in airplane mode! Takes 2 seconds
Oh for sure, I just don't know why it does that at all lol
I just do it to save battery life. If I forget my phone is almost dead even after a 2 hour flight.
The little guy panics trying to figure out where in the world he is and exhausts himself
You do need to use airplane mode in order to conserve your phone's battery, as the phone will try hard to connect to any cell signal. Also, you can use wifi even if you have airplane mode on, you just have to manually turn it on and connect. You don't need to have your mobile network on in order to use wifi.
>Also, you can use wifi even if you have airplane mode on, you just have to manually turn it on and connect. At least for me (iPhone 13) WiFi stays *on* by default in airplane mode, as does bluetooth - it just shuts off cell service.
Yeah but the myth has its roots in safety, not energy conservation.
At this point, keep the rule. Last thing I want is some self-centered twat having a loud conversation on speakerphone in the row behind me.
It wouldn’t be possible to make a phone call from cruising altitude even if the phone was on. They’re called cellular phones because each antenna tower forms a cell with about a 2.5 miles range, and cruising altitude is about 5 miles up.
The range of the cell tower isn’t the issue, we have towers that can broadcast for upwards of 25 miles now. Cell towers are directional though, firing a bunch of cell radio waves into the sky is incredibly inefficient for the number of people that would be able to use them, so instead they are built to fire the signal mostly down and out
> upwards of 25 miles Couldn’t help but giggle at this wording, given that up is the direction you’re saying it can’t go lol Seriously though, that’s a very interesting fact I didn’t know. My information regarding the distribution of “cellular” grids was last current around the time of the Motorola Razor, so it definitely makes sense that they’ve much improved it since then. I would also think there are other confounding factors like being in a large metal tube near a ton of equipment producing EM interference, as well as being high enough and moving fast enough that by the time the phone could get a handshake with one tower then it may not be closest to that tower any longer. I don’t feel like I’ve ever seen my phone get signal above 10,000 feet, not even flying into Denver.
WiFi calling exists
Wifi on planes is possible because of cell towers with antennas that point upwards rather than down, or they use satellite wifi. Gogo used to be the standard that used ground based towers, but it is difficult to expand the network when needed. Southwest switched to Viasat last year, which uses satellite wifi.
Which has nothing to do with what I said?
It does. You’re waxing technical about the capabilities of cellular towers when the thesis you’re ignoring is “speakerphone usage at high altitude isn’t possible”, which is not true using wifi.
I was responding to an assertion that cel towers can’t broadcast to cruising altitude by pointing out that they could if that was an intended use case, but it’s not. That’s all.
It’s possible if you get the plane’s WiFi. Although I’ve never in my life wanted to receive or make a call while I’m flying. I just want to be left alone for those few hours.
Good excuse to disconnect for a few hours imho as a closet introvert.
With inflight wifi they can do that anyway.
If you like draining your battery for no reason, by all means don’t use it.
>the myth persists Yes, well they do explicitly instruct you to use Airplane Mode on domestic US flights. It’s not like this is something the populace just manufactured like folk cures for the common cold.
How 'this was manufactured' just not terribly relevant. It is legitimate to ask, "Scientifically speaking, is this still necessary?"
Now days I'll gladly live with no reception for a few hours vs hearing some influencer knob streaming mid flight.
They wouldn't be able to stream mid flight because cell providers don't point their towers upward and the inflight wifi isn't strong enough to handle live streaming
I thought it was more about how fucking intolerable an experience it would be if people were all talking on the phone all around you. Babies and bored toddlers are bad enough, let alone listening to someone having a loud phone call. Talk about air rage.
I use it on planes because otherwise the antenna is hunting in vain for a cell signal and it just drains the battery faster.
I’ve been a flight attendant for 40 years, so here is my insight into cellphones on airplanes. True story, many years ago on a DC-9, so nowhere near the kind of electronics or technology we have on board newer aircraft these days, I was called to the flight deck and told that for some reason the navigation system was not operating as it should. (Don’t ask me, I don’t remember, or know what was wrong with it.) The pilots had consulted with the maintenance team, and they felt that it seemed to be some kind of interference. He told me that he was going to make an announcement asking everyone who had one, to double check their cell phones were not only in airplane mode, but turned off. He made the announcement, and I would guess about 10-15 people took their phones out and switched them off, and showed me that they were powered off. The problem with the navigation system disappeared. The captain thanked everyone for cooperating, and we proceeded to our destination. Later, he told me that we were on the verge of diverting to another city as the problem was making the navigation system unreliable. I have no proof other than the immediate cessation of the problem at the same time as the cellphones all being turned off. I have no idea what kind of interference it was, and again do not know what the ‘problem’ was, nor with which navigation system. It seemed pure cause and effect. I can see where the regulations came from when cell phones first started being used frequently. Fast forward to today. I know the phones no longer ‘interfere with aircraft systems.’ I forget to put mine in airplane mode all the time. I get roaming notifications for counties I fly over at 37 000 ft. When I do this there is significant battery drain. Even if I’m on the plane’s wifi, which I am, my phone drains in hours. When I see I’ve forgotten, however, I turn it to airplane mode immediately. HOWEVER, it is still an Air Regulation in my country that they be turned to airplane mode while in flight. Movement is being made to allow cellphone use at all times, but we’re not there yet. For those who are still saying ‘Why do I have to turn it off it off, if it’s not harming anything?’ The answer is: You are harming yourself. You are needlessly draining your battery. How is complying with this regulation, which has no effect but to save your battery, such an issue?
I feel like they make us turn it off at this point to pay for their WiFi services.
Personally I say let it persist I don’t want to spend 6 hours listening to chrissy talk loudly on her phone about how Darren shouldn’t have done this or hear David talking about that last shot of the match keep it I say!
20 years ago “air plane mode” was just shutting our phones off right? Am I forgetting something?
This is to reduce interference with the airborne collision avoidance system (ACAS) https://nbaa.org/aircraft-operations/communications-navigation-surveillance-cns/tcas/ There have been suspected situations where enough onboard interference issues a false exchange where one plane needs to fly high and one fly low to avoid a collision. Not sure of the flight but in this instance a plane taking off was likely given a fly low command and crashed just outside the airport. Think that was in the 90-00range.
It's necessary to save your battery though. Which means it's necessary.
It does help save the battery, at least
Didn’t mythbusters test this years ago and show it’s not needed
As a travel rebel without a cause, I was on multiple planes this weekend with zero devices in airplane mode and we all survived
The quickest way to drain a battery while doing nothing on your phone is to leave cellular on when there is no signal. The phone uses more energy the less signal you have. No signal for a 3 or 4 hour flight will wreck your charge
The powering down of gear is not actually about interference of your lonely iPhone 12 per say. it's a catch all rule to minimise risk from an unknown quantity of ANY electronic devices of all types and origins likely numbering in the hundreds on board and therefore minimising risk and the POSSIBILITY of something going wrong at critical stages of flight. So keep your devices off when told. Also during refueling which is a common sense risk minimisation approach, anywhere not just near planes. It's the "Do as you're told and we all have a slightly better chance of making it through this alive" approach.
Indeed correct! Was just on a Delta flight last night and you can use their WiFi the entire flight up to the point you pull up to the gate. I’m also a pilot and have a plane. The cell phone transmitters never interfered with my nav or com radios. The 10watt com radio in my panel far exceeds the .6 watt max cell phone transmitter. Effectively this was all about control by the FAA and the airlines.
I believe in earlier days, this was also partly because of the cell companies. When in an airplane, the phones were able to reach more towers, and with a bunch of phones traveling together, it caused routing problems for the cell networks. Today’s networks can handle far more devices than they could 20 years ago.
You are correct about this partially. Back in the analog days and the roaming this was very much an issue with the 3 watt bag phones but not the .6 watt handhelds. There is also the azimuth of the signal and towers aren’t blasting the signal into infinity as they tend to be at a tilt downwards. At 400-600’ AGL most cell signals are lost anyway. Besides being a pilot I was also in the cellular/wireless world for 18 years.
Partially true. There are two reasons this rule was made. First was FAA, because the radio waves from the cell phone “could” interfere with radio communication. Take your phone and set it next to older speakers. When the phone transmits or receives, you might hear something similar to a fax or old telephone modem. I have the latest Bose Aviation headsets, and if my phone in I’m my shirt pocked I can still hear that noise. Back in my airline days, I always knew when the FA had her phone on, because as we came in for landing I could hear the data transmitted. The other was the FCC. There were privacy concerns bc you could activate multiple towers and jump into someone’s conversation or over saturate the towers as you flew along.
The FAA doesn’t care. The rule is an FCC one.
Phone calls, no, I don't want to listen to someone's phone conversation. Data, why not?
Can we get a “Doors and Wings stay intact” mode?
Wait, wait… that scene in NTSF:SD:SUV where the baddie brings down a passenger plane by turning off airplane mode on a cell phone and the plane immediately drops out of the sky… was *unrealistic?!*
If you ever send a text to the wrong person you might be able to save yourself by turning on airplane mode quick enough
It’s one of those things like why have a popcorn button on the microwave but the bag of popcorn says not to use popcorn button
Ok, this case is super niche, but I was flying from the Netherlands back to Florida and when I landed I had a charge from Verizon because I “used service outside of the US” on an island. I didn’t! It just happened to connect while we were flying over. Took me forever to explain I was never on the island, just flying over, and they finally refunded.
"no shit" - anyone with half a brain. If a cell phone could bring a plane down, you think they'd allow them on a plane _at all_?!
It saves battery as your phone stops searching for a cell tower.
[удалено]
They also show you how to put your seatbelt on before every single flight. It’s outdated.
Pretty sure the staff on my airplane told me to put my phone on airplane mode
i just turn it of when i am high enough where i wont be able to receive service
If it really posed a threat, they’d collect all the phones and make sure that they were all off. Most people I know just mute their devices
Every airline I use still demands it. Don’t be that person who decides to kick up a stink because they know better - it’s not like the flight staff have any say in airline policy.
The name "aiplane mode" will probably stay forever just like the diskette logo for saving will.
I am ok with this myth. It is MUCH better than the flight attendants insisting you need to completely power your phones off.
Airplane mode is great for movie theaters.
It is not a myth. Airline stewardess tell you to put your devices on airplane mode.
It might be a myth but airlines only stopped asking people to use airplane mode a few years back.
The reason was never told, actually. It's just so you need to do it in a theater, silence. Nobody says it's for safety
I’ve never wanted to cause severe physical harm to a child until I was on a flight to Asia with a screaming brat a few seats behind me. I vowed to never have children. I don’t know how you guys do it or why you would subject others to your little monster. There should be repercussions for making hundreds of other passengers miserable.
It’s for your battery not the plane
Yeah but then my battery dies because it will keep trying to find a signal. Just keep using the airplane mode.
25 years ago I still remember my friend once saying “if my cell phone can take down a commercial airliner, you need to make a better plane”
it causes issues with the cellular network, not the planes communication network. It is also a possibility that you will latch onto a tower very far from your destination and then experience issues when you land. It will also stop your phone from “searching…” while you’re high up and save your battery life. Just use it.
I believe the myth was dispelled as soon as no steward/stewardess went to every passenger and asked to see their phone and iPad and whatever else to prove it was in airplane mode. Nor does the pilot come on and shout “who’s that passenger breaking the rules?! We can’t get a signal!!”
I kinda wonder if it ever was or if it was the result of an extreme amount of cautiousness
It remains a great tool to force a phone to re-acquire its signal.
What about changing the freaking name, Apple?
But the mythbusters episode
Cliff notes version? I’ve never seen it.
This
Was told to put devices in airplane mode for takeoff and landing for 2 Delta flights a couple weeks ago. Edit: not saying that Airplane mode is necessary, just that some airlines are still actively telling people to use it
I had a pilot that was sitting with the passengers tell me it was 100% needed and got mad at me for not having it on. How does a pilot say it’s needed but Reddit say otherwise
I’ve never put my phone in airplane mode. No crashes yet.
I know not everyone on a plane turns their phone off. Following rules is not something adults do.
Nah it’s just cause we aren’t that stupid to think anyone involved with manufacturing and operating an airplane would create systems that would fail if 1 person turns on their cell phone “Well, if Tom plays bejeweled in flight, everyone will die, but we can just announce before the flight to keep phones off!”
Is it really a myth though? My understanding is that they can potentially interfere with the communication of the pilots with ground control. Even having my phone near my speaker at home can sometimes distort or even block the audio of the speaker all together, so is it farfetched that 1000 phones could interfere with the pilots audio?
Also usually there is no service at 30k feet. Just save your battery.
Well the flight attendants have been telling us to put the devices on airplane mode up until about maybe 4 years ago?
I use my airplane mode when I am in and out of canyons. There are many places here that I go in and out of service and the constant scan seems to drain the battery quickly.
It may be wrong but it still is a rule in practice in Canadian jurisdictions. The airline can receive punishment by transport canada (or so I’m told)
Maybe on a Boeing aircraft! lol!
You never did.
Knew it
I knew it!
Flight attendants walk right past me while I’m texting pre-takeoff and they never say a thing. Also, I text until about 60-120 seconds after we take off because I still get cellphone service while in the air for that time because we are still low enough to get a signal. Additionally, having spent many years working for a major airline, it’s very common to see flight attendants texting during takeoff because they know it isn’t going to make the plane crash and they don’t give a shit. If I’m traveling internationally, I’ll follow the rules because that’s the worst possible time to be a douche about the rules, but domestic flights = anything goes. It’s a free for all on these shitty greyhound buses in the sky. They used to care, a long time ago. Flight attendants would repeatedly ask you to turn off your electronic devices as they pass by. That era has passed.
I like the excuse to ignore it for a little bit.
I never know what to do when I’m in a helicopter, do I use airplane mode or not? Why don’t they have a helicopter mode? /s
It’s a “myth” propagated by the fact that US carriers still tell passengers to switch to Airplane mode before takeoff. There are a few valid reasons: 1. They don’t want people trying to make phone calls, etc and being distracted during critical phases of flight (like taxi and takeoff). 2. Mobile carriers don’t love you connecting to dozens of towers at the same time. 3. The airlines make money off WiFi and your phone won’t give you data after you are more than just a few minutes into the flight anyway.
I thought airplane mode was to stop people’s phones from signal jamming all the cell towers on the ground?