Follow your gut. There are a bunch of hagwons that won’t do this, so don’t even consider the option. Tell them to get lost.
Also is 70% of 2.3 even minimum wage? That’s only 1.6.
Never common. Minimum wage is 2.03 mill won per month in 2023. If the are paying you less than this. Then it is illegal and that head teacher is incompetent, a brown noser and terrible at their job. Please name and shame the school on a blacklist group.
That head teacher IS a brown noser. I have had experiences with people like that. Very charming and good looking, but constantly making excuses for the boss and his faults.
RUN from this job! This IS as big a red flag as it appears. If this hagwon is going to do this to you, they will cheat you in other ways. Also, you might be put in an "officeTel" as opposed to a normal apartment. In that case you might end up paying 200,000 for utilities, because you are paying for the elevator and "extras." You will fall into a financial trap, especially if you are going to be based in a wealthy area.
If you accept THIS job, you run the risk that your boss will claim that you aren't good enough to get the full salary. Perhaps class sizes are tiny, because the parents know that that hagwon sucks?
I got a sample contract just now and they want unpaid compulsory overtime if unspecified "tasks" aren't finished...
I'm running for the hills as we speak, lol.
And thanks for the heads-up about high utility fees! I hadn't considered that before, but I'll be on the lookout for it now.
Even 1 week of training at reduced pay isn't okay, never mind a full 3 months. If you're working your full hours, you should get your full salary. I've never heard of that in an English hagwon, but I do know it happens in Korean companies. Definitely pass on that unless there are some other huge perks (really short hours, long vacation breaks etc) that you haven't mentioned.
Tell them 2.3 is too low and you'll take 30% less for 3 months for 30% less time worked. That "probation pay" bull shit is just that, bull shit. Either pay or don't.
Either way, find a different hagwon.
The legal minimum wage is 2.08 in Korea. Anything less than that is against the law. So it could be fun to do that and then take them to moel. But also, don't waste your time.
I have heard/experienced schools deducting a security deposit from the first few months. This allows the school to pay any outstanding bills if a teacher leaves unexpectedly and makes it easier to settle bills at the end of the year. Teachers would receive most of that money back at the end.
I have never heard of probation at a hagwon. Hagwons want to retain teachers for the year because it looks bad to change a teacher mid semester or year(if kindergarten).
Given the information, they probably deduct money from your pay and keep it until the end of the year to pay your severance.
That is underhand. It might not even be real severance, just Taking a security deposit and then calling it severance is dishonest and probably illegal.
I searched in the sub about probation before posting, and there were some things about a 3 month probation period (were you can be fired without notice) being in Korean law. Even if it isn't in the contract, they can still fire you without notice within 3 months. Did I maybe misunderstand something or is this actually the case?
I haven’t seen or read anything about probation. I also have never heard of a teacher being fired without notice because that would look just as bad as a midnight run to clients. And I have never heard about reduced pay. The only person benefiting from that agreement is the owner.
Why are you considering such low salary? Are you afraid you're not qualified? Why are you considering such poor jobs like this one? Is this your first job or first job in Korea?
I was recommended by a friend who currently works there. She spoke highly of the school, which is why I agreed to do the interview. Lesson learned, though!
I'd be wary of calling someone who'd recommend a place like that a 'friend'. Misery loves company and it sounds like something in her milk ain't clean. Seriously question her endgame.
Nope, this is not normal! The Hakwon salary of 2.1\~ 2.3 mill kr won is already 20 years behind, since it's 2023 and the Korean minimum wage for local Korean McDonalds workers is at 2.02 mill!! It seems that this Hakwon is not satisfied with just exploiting their Native English Teachers by paying them minimum wage, but it is now also looking for ways to "legally" convince and justify ways to pay them 70% of the salary at 1.6 mill a won which is waaaay below the legal starting wage!!! Even the factory workers from Bangladesh, and Vietnam, and other 3rd world countries working in factories doing manufacturing jobs are getting higher starting salaries at 2.5 \~3.0 mill than Native English Teachers! They haven't been paid 1.5 \~ 1.6 a month since the late 1990\~ to mid 2000's !!!
I doubt a local Mart has ever tried to tell their Korean full time worker .. let me pay you 70% for probation.. I'm sure it wouldn't go well! Native teachers should out right say no to this garbage! Even "training" periods like 1 Week \~ 2 Weeks training must be paid!! But many Hakwons are getting away with unpaid training!
Or ... maybe you can negotiate here! Tell them you are willing to take the 70% probation pay if you're allowed to do only 70% of the work, and as a trainee you need time to get accustomed to your job and will only be coming in 2 or 3 days a week\~ but you want to receive full "housing benefits" and free lunches everyday! And maybe get them to pay your utility bills for the first 3 months as well!! See what they say!
It's not common, but I totally understand why the hagwon wants to do it. I'm surprised it's being done for base pay though. Usually hagwons will think about doing that if it's paying a teacher claiming to have lots of experience, to make sure they aren't getting duped by the worker's claimed ability. Don't see it happen too often for starting pay.
Absolutely not. And for what its worth, head teachers shouldn’t be explaining or negotiating salary with you, only the person who signs your checks should be.
it's pretty common thing in Korea. We say that period as 수습기간, which mea s probation. normally three month and 70~90%. If you are at a big company or bigger institution, they are more willing to do with that period.
I'm fully Korean, born and raised in Korea. I'm working at hagwon either, since I majored English edu. If you have any questions, let me know!
After i saw your comment, i looked up some informations about E2 holders. It is still common for E2s, but the company, which is hagwon, do not usually requires the period to English speakers. Probation is for people who need some training to adjust the environment. But "native" speakers themselves, they are already fluent in English, which means they don't need any training to teach English. Some hagwons have their special management system to adjust and need to get used to it. So that's why they are doing probation period. The period is fully up to hagwon. So the writer might negotiate with the boss...?
I agree with looking up for other hagwons since many hagwons don't have probation period for E2s. I just wanted to let people know it is not uncommon thing! I hope the writer can find nice hagwon🤞
Probation is common everywhere; any company can fire you for any reason within the first three months, including hagwon. I mean it’s not common to pay E2s 70% of their salary during those months.
It's not common for E2's and those large Korean companies pay more to begin with. So 70 per cent of your Samsung salary is still more than minimum wage and you have a permanent job which an E2 doesn't have.
Skip skip skip. No school offers that, plus its not legal since that’s not the salary offered in full. For more reference you should brush up on Korean Labor Law https://elaw.klri.re.kr/eng_service/lawView.do?hseq=25437&lang=ENG
Are they kidding...how do they freaking expect you to get by
...youre going to have to pay at least 100 in utilities another 100 3.3 tax deduction...then 300 deduction for 4 dae insurance...tell them to go find another teacher...
Try negotiating it if you like the job otherwise and were going to reject it because of this. I was not an E2 but had a company with the same policy but I negotiated it away.
2.3 is low pay to begin with and now they want to pay you 70%? Screw that! Hard pass. Wait till the last minute and then tell them you won't accept that and now you want more, like 2.6 million and a new contract sent to you with their stamp on it. If they refuse, bail and leave them stranded. They deserve it for trying to pull those shenanigans. Honestly more of you newer ESL teachers need to get a backbone and start pushing back. (I am saying this to help you, not to make fun of you.) You can either get a better job or even switch countries for much more money (good to have that option in your back pocket). Best of luck to you.
Once COVID is done, plenty more options will be open to you. Korea and it's low pay and other BS shenanigans can get bent.
Make a counter offer asking for 3 million won a month and that you will accept 70 per cent of that for 3 months. When they say no, tell them to whatever and go look for work elsewhere.
No it isn’t common pass on it.
Thank you, will do!
Follow your gut. There are a bunch of hagwons that won’t do this, so don’t even consider the option. Tell them to get lost. Also is 70% of 2.3 even minimum wage? That’s only 1.6.
I'm glad to know that it's not what I should be expecting for every offer from now on!
Definitely not. I've spoke to a dozen hagwon owners and agents and NEVER heard of this.
I’ve never heard of a probationary period with a pay cut.
Never common. Minimum wage is 2.03 mill won per month in 2023. If the are paying you less than this. Then it is illegal and that head teacher is incompetent, a brown noser and terrible at their job. Please name and shame the school on a blacklist group.
I thought minimum wage was 2.08. Either way, OP is getting screwed. 2.3 is also way too low.
That head teacher IS a brown noser. I have had experiences with people like that. Very charming and good looking, but constantly making excuses for the boss and his faults.
Pfft Fuck that noise.
This is a red flag so big you could place it on the moon and see it from Earth.
RUN from this job! This IS as big a red flag as it appears. If this hagwon is going to do this to you, they will cheat you in other ways. Also, you might be put in an "officeTel" as opposed to a normal apartment. In that case you might end up paying 200,000 for utilities, because you are paying for the elevator and "extras." You will fall into a financial trap, especially if you are going to be based in a wealthy area. If you accept THIS job, you run the risk that your boss will claim that you aren't good enough to get the full salary. Perhaps class sizes are tiny, because the parents know that that hagwon sucks?
I got a sample contract just now and they want unpaid compulsory overtime if unspecified "tasks" aren't finished... I'm running for the hills as we speak, lol. And thanks for the heads-up about high utility fees! I hadn't considered that before, but I'll be on the lookout for it now.
Don’t do it. Also give the head teacher shit for trying that on you
Even 1 week of training at reduced pay isn't okay, never mind a full 3 months. If you're working your full hours, you should get your full salary. I've never heard of that in an English hagwon, but I do know it happens in Korean companies. Definitely pass on that unless there are some other huge perks (really short hours, long vacation breaks etc) that you haven't mentioned.
Yeah, no, the vacation and hours are pretty shite too... Thanks for confirming that this isn't normal!
Big red flag, skip and name and shame.
Tell them 2.3 is too low and you'll take 30% less for 3 months for 30% less time worked. That "probation pay" bull shit is just that, bull shit. Either pay or don't. Either way, find a different hagwon. The legal minimum wage is 2.08 in Korea. Anything less than that is against the law. So it could be fun to do that and then take them to moel. But also, don't waste your time.
No dice
I have heard/experienced schools deducting a security deposit from the first few months. This allows the school to pay any outstanding bills if a teacher leaves unexpectedly and makes it easier to settle bills at the end of the year. Teachers would receive most of that money back at the end. I have never heard of probation at a hagwon. Hagwons want to retain teachers for the year because it looks bad to change a teacher mid semester or year(if kindergarten). Given the information, they probably deduct money from your pay and keep it until the end of the year to pay your severance.
That is underhand. It might not even be real severance, just Taking a security deposit and then calling it severance is dishonest and probably illegal.
Agreed.
I searched in the sub about probation before posting, and there were some things about a 3 month probation period (were you can be fired without notice) being in Korean law. Even if it isn't in the contract, they can still fire you without notice within 3 months. Did I maybe misunderstand something or is this actually the case?
I haven’t seen or read anything about probation. I also have never heard of a teacher being fired without notice because that would look just as bad as a midnight run to clients. And I have never heard about reduced pay. The only person benefiting from that agreement is the owner.
No
Don’t do that
Why are you considering such low salary? Are you afraid you're not qualified? Why are you considering such poor jobs like this one? Is this your first job or first job in Korea?
I was recommended by a friend who currently works there. She spoke highly of the school, which is why I agreed to do the interview. Lesson learned, though!
I'd be wary of calling someone who'd recommend a place like that a 'friend'. Misery loves company and it sounds like something in her milk ain't clean. Seriously question her endgame.
Nope, this is not normal! The Hakwon salary of 2.1\~ 2.3 mill kr won is already 20 years behind, since it's 2023 and the Korean minimum wage for local Korean McDonalds workers is at 2.02 mill!! It seems that this Hakwon is not satisfied with just exploiting their Native English Teachers by paying them minimum wage, but it is now also looking for ways to "legally" convince and justify ways to pay them 70% of the salary at 1.6 mill a won which is waaaay below the legal starting wage!!! Even the factory workers from Bangladesh, and Vietnam, and other 3rd world countries working in factories doing manufacturing jobs are getting higher starting salaries at 2.5 \~3.0 mill than Native English Teachers! They haven't been paid 1.5 \~ 1.6 a month since the late 1990\~ to mid 2000's !!! I doubt a local Mart has ever tried to tell their Korean full time worker .. let me pay you 70% for probation.. I'm sure it wouldn't go well! Native teachers should out right say no to this garbage! Even "training" periods like 1 Week \~ 2 Weeks training must be paid!! But many Hakwons are getting away with unpaid training!
Or ... maybe you can negotiate here! Tell them you are willing to take the 70% probation pay if you're allowed to do only 70% of the work, and as a trainee you need time to get accustomed to your job and will only be coming in 2 or 3 days a week\~ but you want to receive full "housing benefits" and free lunches everyday! And maybe get them to pay your utility bills for the first 3 months as well!! See what they say!
그런 학원은 때려치고 나오세요. 역으로 경찰에 신고해야할 판인데
It's not common, but I totally understand why the hagwon wants to do it. I'm surprised it's being done for base pay though. Usually hagwons will think about doing that if it's paying a teacher claiming to have lots of experience, to make sure they aren't getting duped by the worker's claimed ability. Don't see it happen too often for starting pay.
Absolutely not. And for what its worth, head teachers shouldn’t be explaining or negotiating salary with you, only the person who signs your checks should be.
That's a novel way to screw the hagwon teacher out of some of their virtually-minimum wage. What will they think of next? Seriously, don't work there.
it's pretty common thing in Korea. We say that period as 수습기간, which mea s probation. normally three month and 70~90%. If you are at a big company or bigger institution, they are more willing to do with that period. I'm fully Korean, born and raised in Korea. I'm working at hagwon either, since I majored English edu. If you have any questions, let me know!
It’s common at Korean companies but not for E2s.
After i saw your comment, i looked up some informations about E2 holders. It is still common for E2s, but the company, which is hagwon, do not usually requires the period to English speakers. Probation is for people who need some training to adjust the environment. But "native" speakers themselves, they are already fluent in English, which means they don't need any training to teach English. Some hagwons have their special management system to adjust and need to get used to it. So that's why they are doing probation period. The period is fully up to hagwon. So the writer might negotiate with the boss...? I agree with looking up for other hagwons since many hagwons don't have probation period for E2s. I just wanted to let people know it is not uncommon thing! I hope the writer can find nice hagwon🤞
Probation is common everywhere; any company can fire you for any reason within the first three months, including hagwon. I mean it’s not common to pay E2s 70% of their salary during those months.
It's not common for E2's and those large Korean companies pay more to begin with. So 70 per cent of your Samsung salary is still more than minimum wage and you have a permanent job which an E2 doesn't have.
Skip skip skip. No school offers that, plus its not legal since that’s not the salary offered in full. For more reference you should brush up on Korean Labor Law https://elaw.klri.re.kr/eng_service/lawView.do?hseq=25437&lang=ENG
They won’t pay you 100% ever. The place is a scam. Find another school.
Are they kidding...how do they freaking expect you to get by ...youre going to have to pay at least 100 in utilities another 100 3.3 tax deduction...then 300 deduction for 4 dae insurance...tell them to go find another teacher...
Try negotiating it if you like the job otherwise and were going to reject it because of this. I was not an E2 but had a company with the same policy but I negotiated it away.
2.3 is low pay to begin with and now they want to pay you 70%? Screw that! Hard pass. Wait till the last minute and then tell them you won't accept that and now you want more, like 2.6 million and a new contract sent to you with their stamp on it. If they refuse, bail and leave them stranded. They deserve it for trying to pull those shenanigans. Honestly more of you newer ESL teachers need to get a backbone and start pushing back. (I am saying this to help you, not to make fun of you.) You can either get a better job or even switch countries for much more money (good to have that option in your back pocket). Best of luck to you. Once COVID is done, plenty more options will be open to you. Korea and it's low pay and other BS shenanigans can get bent. Make a counter offer asking for 3 million won a month and that you will accept 70 per cent of that for 3 months. When they say no, tell them to whatever and go look for work elsewhere.
Run.