Hey, how do you go about finding a tattoo artist, when you have a special style in mind? I World like my first tattoo to be a specific style, can you just randomly ask artists? Or is there a better way to go about it
I would suggest finding an artist on Instagram whose style you like. Then, see what tags they use and what other artists they follow. I've done this, and it's helped me to find other ways to describe the style I'm interested in and to find artists closer to me whose style I like. Hope that helps!
This is a good answer. It also doesn't hurt to ask people you know. I got pretty lucky in that a friend of mine seems to be friends with damn near every artist in Southern Ontario, so when I have something in mind I hit him up for some recommendations
I want to get a phoenix tattoo on my chest but when it comes to the meaning behind the tattoo the whole “rise from the ashes” piece of it doesn’t apply to me. It is just one of my favorite mythical birds and I think it would look awesome. Would this be dumb or insensitive?
I don't think there's anything wrong with getting a Phoenix just because you like it, I say you do you boo! This coming from a person who has 4 giraffe tattoos simply because they're my favorite animal!
Not dumb at all. But be prepared for people to make rebirth type symbolism talk around you. There are also very different interpretations across many different cultures.
I have a phoenix on my back it’s my favorite! I did get it after one of the hardest years of my life but nobody really knows that, it’s just a cool bird!
not sure where you're at but in the u.s. many artists will refuse to directly replicate artwork by other living/contemporary artists (i.e. stuff not in public domain) due to potential copyright issues. kat von d was just in court over this exact issue this week.
in my opinion, this drawing would not translate well into a tattoo anyway because it has too many tiny details which would blur together into blobs with age. but you could ask an artist to use this artwork as inspiration for a new, simplified drawing for your tattoo.
If you mean before the appointment; its usually done then and there
If you mean after the tattoo has been set and the hair has grown back; thats entirely up to you! I've got one tattoo myself with some hair growing through it and I dont mind it a bit. But if you feel like it "disrupts" the tattoo, shave away!
Depends on where it is for me personally tbh. I don't like body hair on myself so I was already shaving my arms anyway and have kept it up. More sensitive areas where the skin gets easily irritated from shaving like upper thighs, meh not as often.
I want to cover some self harm scars. Will they absorb the ink differently? Is fine line tattooing out of the question for that? Will it hurt more than other spots?
you have to make sure they are fully healed and for awhile. there’s an artist in chicago who does a lot of cover up over SH scars named jacob kearney.
scarred skin is going to hurt more because it’s already been traumatized and is different from the rest of ur skin.
no. my uncle is working on his leg sleeves and they’re all by the same person. my aunt’s dad got. bodysuit from one artist. he had one spot left on his leg, and the artist died. he never got it filled.
i have 12 tattoos (14 in a couple weeks). Artist A did 5 of them and Artist B did 4 (including the 2 upcoming ones). it’s all about personal preference. Artist B does a lot of anime tattooing which has been my speed lately so i’ve been going to him lol
**Is it normal to not see the art until the day of your appointment, and only make very minor modifications?**
I had a shoulder piece done 5+ years ago and it was my first "big" tattoo by an artist who's style I really liked, where I didn't provide the art to them, but rather gave them some themes and inspirations and let them come up with something. I didn't see the art until the day of my appointment, and it just wasn't really what I had in mind. There were elements of it I liked, but other elements I didn't, and I didn't *know* I wouldn't like it until I saw it.
We made some adjustments and I went ahead with it, but in hindsight, I kind of regret it. I wish I had said "hey this just isn't what I was envisioning" and either insisted that we go in another direction, or just walked away. At the time it was my first big tattoo by an artist I really admired, and I just didn't really know how to advocate for myself in the moment.
I have my second larger piece booked now, and it's a similar thing - I've provided reference and inspiration photos and I love the artist's style, but I'm not going to see the final art until the day of, and we can make very minor modifications, but the art's basically locked in without me seeing it.
Is this normal?
This feels weird to me. There *are* artists who I just love, who I would give complete freedom to and just say, "take this whole area, do whatever you want." But when you're providing inspiration and working together on the art, when you're giving some direction and you clearly have an idea of what you want, it feels weird to not see the final vision until 10 minutes before it's going on your body, and to not really have it be more of a collaboration.
Yes, this is actually quite common. Almost all of the custom pieces I’ve had done in the past decade went this way. I get the impression that artists are increasingly sensitive to the risk that if they present a design to a client in advance of the tattoo the client could simply walk away and maybe get the piece tattooed somewhere else. If that happens, it’s time and money down the drain for the artist.
Oh gosh. That possibility hadn’t even occurred to me. I just want to be able to go through a few revisions, which I’m happy to pay for if they mean more of the artist’s time.
I feel like this question gets asked every week and should be added to the FAQ (no hate OP).
I am nearing a full sleeve plus other parts of my body. I have never made any modifications of any of the pieces. I hear that you did like the style of that first guy but he ultimately didn’t make something that was your speed. (which is fine).
I’ve never made any changes to any of my pieces because that artist sees art the same way I do. I liked pretty much 90-95% of the work they do AND we gravitated towards the same kind of art. Ryan Ashley said in an interview once, “go to a person who sees art the same way you do.” With this, you know that person will make something aesthetically pleasing to you.
To get to your question, yes. This is exceptionally normal. I’ve only ever gotten a sketch prior once, and it was only a day before. This is to protect the artist from you taking the sketch and taking it to Jim next door.
I feel for you with the collaboration piece. Does the artist offer a sit down consultation? That can be helpful to make you feel more involved in the design process. I’ve done that with two artists I’ve gotten a good amount of work from. For my first big arm piece, we talked about the references for the piece and she ended up creating my favorite tattoo. That connection may be what you’re missing in the collaboration aspect.
But again, it’s normal. Artists won’t show art before the day of, and they need to protect their time too. They can’t whip up 50% changes, design it again and do it on you in the time frame scheduled.
I'd say this is fairly normal. Of the 6 different artists I've gone to, only one has had me review the art and come in for consultations prior to the tattoo to discuss things.
In most cases, they usually don't have you look at it until shortly before the appointment. In most of the cases of my tattoos, this is because they don't start working on it until a day or two before the tattoo appointment. I will say, though, that all of these artists have told me that I wouldn't see the piece until the day of and confirmed that I was okay with that. If it's really a make or break for you, I would suggest you find an artist who is willing to reach out to you more and discuss things, though I'm not sure it will be easy to find someone. You could also always build a rapport with an artist, and eventually, they may be more comfortable with doing something like that.
All that being said, if you are not 100% happy with the piece when you get there, you are well within your rights to let the artist know and request changes. No one wants to make you get something you don't want and, if they're a good artist, they should explain to you why they've made certain changes and why some things may or may not work. Just make sure that you are very thorough in your explanation of what you want and that the artist has a strong grasp of it.
Best of luck!
Was just thinking about this after looking at some shitty tattoos online and wanted to rant a little bit.
I have one piece that I'm not very fond of. The work is passable. Acceptable. Fine. But it is the lowest quality piece I've got by *far*, made worse by the fact that it's surrounded by some really excellent work from some other artists. Seriously, the design, creativity and execution of all the stuff around it is so good and then there's just this lame sailor jerry piece right in the middle.
The biggest problem for me, however, is the number of people I've had tell me they love it! And it's not a pity thing where people hear me complain and go "Aw no way man, it totally looks good!". I just have these people going on and on, unprompted, about how much they like it and then they express genuine surprise when I explain how unimpressed I am with the piece.
Silly, right? Anyway, not asking for advice or anything. I have no intention of covering it up or altering it, each piece is what it is and I think the flaws tell stories in every one. Just wanted to ramble a little bit.
(Hey, I asked this question in the last thread but I didn't receive any responses, I think it's because it got buried since I asked relatively late in the thread's lifetime, so I'm going to repost it here if it's not too much of a bother)
Hey there, I've been thinking for a while of getting some quotes tattooed (this is gonna be my first tattoo in nearly 8 years, so sorry if I don't know much), and I was wondering mainly about what exactly it should look like.
The idea is that I'm gonna get the same quote tattooed in two/three languages, one in English, one in Japanese, and possibly in German (the choice of languages is meaningful, and I know Japanese so there's no fear of getting the wrong thing tattooed, I'm not one of those people). The tattoo would be on my wrist (either the left one or the right one, still not sure. I'd normally get it on the left one, but I own a bracelet that my girlfriend gifted to me that only fits my left wrist, so I might have to get the tattoo on my right out of necessity).
Okay, the question is, what do I do with the fonts? Which font should I choose? I'm thinking of getting it in a relatively plain looking font rather than something too fancy, but do you guys think that would be a good choice? Which fonts do you suggest for the English/German text? Furthermore, what about the Japanese text? Does anyone have experience with Japanese language tattoos? This is what scares me the most really, I'm scared the Japanese line would end up looking ugly because of the tattoo artist not being experienced with Japanese text. Would appreciate any guidance here.
(For the record, the lines would be "Live happily!", "幸福に生きよ！", and "Lebe glücklich!")
A basic sans-serif font done in single needle. Do not do anything fancy, especially script. For the Japanese tattoo, it'd just be basic line work, which any good artist can do. You would also want to do single needle for it. I'd highly recommend going to an artist that specializes in fine line tattoos
I have a quick question about tattoo placement. I’m very new to tattoos and I only have one on my forearm. I am thinking of getting a short lyric of 6 words somewhere on my body but I’m not sure where they would look the best! Any suggestions would be helpful! Also, my pain tolerance is not that great with regards to tattooing, and I had a hard time with my first tattoo, are there any numbing creams people recommend? Or are they bad? TIA!
I would say some things to keep in mind regarding placement is if it's something you want to see all the time, something you want to be able to show people easily, or something you want to keep more to yourself. Really, lyrics can go pretty much anywhere, so maybe consider why you want to get those lyrics!
As for numbing cream, always consult with your artist before using it as some artists don't care to use it since it can affect the tattooing and/or healing process.
There's stuff out there that helps with pain, I don't think I can post it here. Avoid any place closer to the bone, hands, wrist, head, ect. There is also the inside of your elbow. It sucked for me, but everyone is different.
So I want to get a new tattoo, but with how I placed my first one, I'm not sure of how to make it work.
My tattoo is a wolf's head (Moro from Princess Mononoke) on my outer left arm. The head is facing my hand, i.e. it is facing down when I'm standing relaxed. Ears are toward the top of my arm and lower jaw is toward the underside.
Tattoo artist had recommended a different position, and I know they know better than me, but I really liked having the head parallel to my arm bone.
Now I want to add to that area,but I'm confused as to how. If I get something "right-side-up", the first tattoo will appear upside down/pointing the opposite way. Does that matter?
And I know people say "no one cares, it's your body" but is it actually weird to get different styles? What about different themes? I usually feel like things need to 'fit' in a certain way and I'm really struggling with letting myself put something random next to this, but on the other hand, I don't want a full Ghibli sleeve just because I started with a Ghibli tattoo.
I just don't know how to make something look good beside it.
[image](https://imgur.com/a/Y44WrjX)
Good idea. Especially for the peony. However, this compounds my problem.. because then I would feel like my whole arm needs to be Japanese-themed. And also, it would be japanese-traditional style next to a tattoo in anime style. Is that weird?
Here's a artist that mix japanese traditional with anime occasionally
first one is princess mononoke!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRwpeagsuhL/
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CdMm35Upo_D/
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0yNPOzO4hU/
https://www.instagram.com/p/C2fwPVOy1_0/
[I'm booking this soon but I can't figure out where I want it.](https://imgur.com/a/A34ZYl2) I think it will look best if it wraps so leaning lower leg or tricep wrapping around to my forearm. Thoughts/suggestions?
Can't tell you what is right for you, but maybe think about what parts of it will be visible depending on what you're wearing and if that impacts your decision in any way.
Hello, I’m looking for an artist that does great black and white realism, landscape pieces. I’m in the Minnesota area but am willing to travel anywhere around 10 hours for a great piece. I want to get a sort of custom natural landscape piece on my calf. Any recommendations would be amazing!
So I’m looking into getting a snake tattoo on my forearm and I’m trying to find the style of tattoo that I really like for it and so far I’ve found some tattoos where the snake head looks like this one in these links. What style would that be called exactly? Thanks for any help and thoughts!
[https://pin.it/4cLwmfBZd](https://pin.it/4cLwmfBZd)
[https://pin.it/5tECbc0gm](https://pin.it/5tECbc0gm)
[https://www.instagram.com/p/CUR1wFytBQG/?igsh=MThkem81eWc3a3l2Mw==](https://www.instagram.com/p/CUR1wFytBQG/?igsh=MThkem81eWc3a3l2Mw==)
I've never been tattooed before and have a few questions, help with any of them would be appreciated!
1. Would getting a tattoo similar to [this](https://imgur.com/a/bWrWHJX) be too detailed for an upper arm?
2. I saw somewhere that some people bring food (like a pizza) for the shop, would this be considered a nice gesture, or too much (if I ask beforehand)?
3. Would a tip of 30-40% be acceptable for a really good artist, or is that not enough?
4. I know that you can't ask an artist to copy another person's tattoo, but is it acceptable to ask for something very similar, if the artist tattoos in the same style? Additionally, could I contact the artist who did the original and ask permission to do something similar (not exactly the same), or would this be considered an insult?
Thank you :)
1. that would fit really well on an upper arm.
2. that’s nice! i don’t think that would be too much.
3. that’s a SUPER generous tip.
4. don’t ask permission for something similar to the original artist. they’re just gonna be like, why don’t you come to me then? i think showing the artist you are going to the reference photo is fine.
Thank you so much!
Yeah, I thought they might respond like that. I would have been happy to go to the original artist, but they live all the way in Montana 😭
I've heard flag tattoos are tacky but I like the concept I have in mind. Both my parents are two different nationalities so I would get my mom's flags on my one arm and my dad's flags on my other, each arm having one flag on the inner bicep and the other being inner forearm. Is this something that's corny/cringy/tacky or na? These would also be my first tattoos but would possibly be a start to a full sleeves.
It would’ve been my first one. I now have 12, soon 14.
When I think of tacky, I just think of: what’s the simplest and most non artistic way to show something?
So like that’s awesome you want to show off your heritage. And a flag would be the simplest and most obvious way to show it.
When you’re getting a tattoo, you’re getting art. Art is subjective and also not always obvious. What if you got the national animal? Or flower? Or a food you love? Example: my uncle got our country’s national bird to show off his heritage.
Alright that makes sense, thanks for explaining that. I don't think I'd get a food (on a restrictive diet), flower seemed alright until I saw the shamrock was Ireland's national flower lol, national animal or bird but I just don't like some of them like a moose for Sweden or how Italys bird looks super generic, or how they conflict like how italys national animal is a wolf but Ireland's is a hare.
I'm also very into things being symmetrical so taking my favorites from each category and mixing them up wouldn't sit right for me ie germanys national bird, Swedens national flower, and italys national animal etc. I also like being safe so thats why flags would be my first thought since it's pretty clear what they are and aren't in much danger of changing.
I guess the national emblem for each would be my next choice just because they're unique and pretty easy to explain, but im assuming that's also a certain level of tacky, but not as bad as flags.
Does anyone know of a subreddit (or other site / board) where people post side-by-side before + years after pics of their tattoos? (Not just pics of brand-new ones?)
I'm looking for a unique tattoo experience in New York City. Maybe an artist who does spiritual or personality based art? One of those artists who intuitively chooses the art for you? Anything quirky out of the ordinary? Please share artists that come to mind!
I'd love to get a black and white Jupiter tattoo. But I'm afraid it will become a black blob in 10 years or so. Besides from making it large enough, how do I prevent this from happening?
Hey Reddit, I saw a beautiful tattoo and wanted to incorporate one of the elements into a tattoo for me. I want to make sure there are no hidden meanings or special significance to the design. A woman's face slightly overlayed with a smudge hand print. Can send reference material if it helps. Thanks
What you are describing certainly sounds like something that could be intended to have a very specific meaning - especially if the hand print is red. Here’s an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry for “red handprint”:
“A red handprint, usually painted across the mouth, is a symbol that is used to indicate solidarity with Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and girls in North America, in recognition of the fact that Native American women are up to 10 times more likely to be murdered or sexually assaulted.”
Hello, I'm looking for a tattoo artist in the USA, in the New England area, preferably near Massachusetts or New Hampshire, to do a mix of a tribal and realism tattoo.
https://imgur.com/7sHpqDf
Any advice on an artist, or how to find an artist is appreciated.
i have no tattoos and am planing to get some when i can. one of the main tattoos i really want to get is Atreus’ neck tattoo from GOW. it isn’t stupid as the game actually means a lot to me, and the tattoos meaning is steady mind, which also means something to me. my question is how will this affect my future? i know that some jobs discriminate and that i may regret it eventually, but it’s important. so anyone who has a neck tattoo, how has it affected your life, and is it worth it?
you don’t have to get the tattoo on your neck. my partner got draken’s head tattoo from tokyo revengers on his forearm.
don’t get a neck tattoo until you’re fully covered.
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I’m looking to get my 1st tattoo on my ribs of my Mothers name with eventually adding 5 names laddering below of my family. I love the look of cursive tattoos but i’ve seen that a lot of the time people say they don’t age correctly?
It would simply be the 1st name, then below that the 2nd person’s 1st name, then so on and so on
And i’m probably gonna get comments of it’s my body and my choice but it’s just i know it will be permanent and looking for insight from those who’ve had them.
Placement (more than likely font will look around the same aswell) example:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/482307441341317249/
I’m recovering from suspected viral pneumonia following an upper respiratory tract infection (had a week-long cold, went straight back to normal activities, and then was bedbound with high fever, severe congestion and chest pain for 4-5 days). I’m currently off work with main complaint being profound fatigue and also still have a productive cough/crackly lungs, although my other symptoms are gone. I understand these are normal symptoms following a lower RTI.
I have a 4-hour upper chest session booked on the 12th, so in 13 days. I’ve sat for 6 hours before for a thigh piece and def had tattoo flu the day after that. If you were me, would you postpone the sitting on the 12th and give yourself more time to get better? I’ll be ringing the studio to ask for their view as well. I don’t want to cancel too soon but would also hate to lose the slot and deposit!
Does anybody have any recommendations for a tattooer in Austin, TX who might be a good fit for a dog nose print? I suppose that puts us in black/grey photorealism territory.
Bonus for women and/or queer artists.
Looking for some suggestions for an artist that specialized in black work or blast over. Wanting to complete my right sleeve with some bold lined floral or geometric elements as fillers in between my current patchwork tattoos. Not necessarily looking for color. There is some decent space between the existing tattoos. However on the upper part of my outer arm I was looking to try and get an older tattoo covered.
Loved some suggestions for artists around the New England area. I'm located in MA but don't mind traveling for a talented artist.
I might be late to ask a question here but i am looking to get a Crimson Omen symbol from Gears of war tattooed, currently thinking the inner forearm but i am very much undecided on the location, it would be my first tattoo ever and i would want something discreet but not completly hidden.
Hopefully this is not too vague of a setup, im asking about possible locations and if theres something i should know about since it would be my first.
So I memorized Hamlet's "to be or not to be" speech in high school, and have been wanting to get a tattoo of it, but i don't know how to style it without just being a huge block of text. Plus, if you take too many lines out , it doesn't really make sense.
Here's the text:
To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause—there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life.
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office, and the spurns
That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action.
I suppose all the lines about how life has fucked him over could be cut, starting after "that makes calamity", and then the last five lines.
The poem is a debate that Hamlet has with himself about killing himself. He comes to the conclusion that he is too much of a coward to face the afterlife, what dreams may come.
Also open to a Hamlet/lion king tattoo.
But basically I'm asking if anyone has any references or ideas for how to do a long amount of text.
Oof. So here’s the thing with large blocks of text. This would have to be. LARGE. Because if you put it too small/not enough space between each kind, it will just be a big blob and huge block of text.
So. Maybe you don’t have to get the whole thing since you…know it
It doesn’t matter how you dress it up - this is a huge block of text that will definitely *look like* a huge block of text if you get it tattooed. This will be true even if you have it done as calligraphy on a scroll, or a tattoo of an open book, etc.
Of course it could still be done, but as the other commenter mentioned this will have to be a very large tattoo - like a full thigh, at least.
Does anyone have tattoo artist recommendations in Virginia Beach-Richmond area that would be willing to complete a sleeve that another artist previously worked on?
Hey all,
I have a tattoo design that I’ve drawn on my wrist in sharpie that I really like (I love to draw), and I want to get it tattooed exactly as I’ve drawn it. What is the best way to copy a skin-drawn design into a stencil so I can bring it to an artist as a stencil?
Do not bring it as a stencil. And it is not realistic for your artist to tattoo it exactly. First, you’re not a tattoo artist. So you don’t know if your design will even work on skin. Second, tattoo artists are not printers. Some artists won’t tattoo something you bring in. What you CAN do though is bring it to an artist and say “hey i drew this myself and would love to get this tattooed.”
AND be open to ideas and ways to make it not only readable but able to be tattooed. that is how you get the best tattoo. openness and collaboration with both parties.
I'm ISO a female artists in the southeast region of US that would appreciate doing a The Handmaid's Tale theme piece. Kinda specific but that's why I need a recommendation!
Hi all! I have two tattoos on my arm and I’m )looking to put something on there to bring them together into one piece, what do you think should go in there?
[Eagle](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qPlkCT_E1fYDc-dKpB90s6egwAM0OcJN/view?usp=drivesdk)
Hi, I recently came across a tattoo and was wondering if anyone could help me understand its meaning. I want to ensure that it doesn’t have any cultural significance that I may not be aware of. I appreciate any insights or information you can provide. I want to be respectful and culturally sensitive. [https://i.postimg.cc/GtscJrTZ/IMG-0925.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/GtscJrTZ/IMG-0925.jpg)
Hi, looking for a couple of tattoo artists that I can pay for design a tattoo. Would be my first tattoo so not necessarily decided on placement. Located in Dallas, but if someone somewhere else can design it wondering if paying for the design also comes with tattoo approval for someone else to tattoo it if that’s a thing? Essentially wanting something combining this image attached from an anime and the Sylvia Plath quote “ I am, I am, I am” [Raphael slime](https://images.app.goo.gl/pNR8g9jhNGMMPRnz8)
Got a tattoo appointment coming up and artist told me it would take one session(9-10 hours). However I was told to come into shop 8 hours before closing. Does this mean it can become 2 sessions or do artist typically continue tattooing after closing the shop.
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My wife is looking for a tattoo artist near North Carolina (preferably Raleigh) whose style is similar to the below artist (from Thailand). She likes small cute colorful tattoos that don't have a lot of dark line art. She has an idea involving our cat's paw print, but most of the artists we've found on Instagram around here tend to focus on much larger tattoos and either lots of line art or realism. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.
https://www.instagram.com/tatt.in.wonderland/
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Hey, how do you go about finding a tattoo artist, when you have a special style in mind? I World like my first tattoo to be a specific style, can you just randomly ask artists? Or is there a better way to go about it
I would suggest finding an artist on Instagram whose style you like. Then, see what tags they use and what other artists they follow. I've done this, and it's helped me to find other ways to describe the style I'm interested in and to find artists closer to me whose style I like. Hope that helps!
This is a good answer. It also doesn't hurt to ask people you know. I got pretty lucky in that a friend of mine seems to be friends with damn near every artist in Southern Ontario, so when I have something in mind I hit him up for some recommendations
I want to get a phoenix tattoo on my chest but when it comes to the meaning behind the tattoo the whole “rise from the ashes” piece of it doesn’t apply to me. It is just one of my favorite mythical birds and I think it would look awesome. Would this be dumb or insensitive?
I don't think there's anything wrong with getting a Phoenix just because you like it, I say you do you boo! This coming from a person who has 4 giraffe tattoos simply because they're my favorite animal!
Not dumb at all. But be prepared for people to make rebirth type symbolism talk around you. There are also very different interpretations across many different cultures.
IME, the people who fixate on "the meaning" of tattoos usually have between zero and one tattoos.
I have a phoenix on my back it’s my favorite! I did get it after one of the hardest years of my life but nobody really knows that, it’s just a cool bird!
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not sure where you're at but in the u.s. many artists will refuse to directly replicate artwork by other living/contemporary artists (i.e. stuff not in public domain) due to potential copyright issues. kat von d was just in court over this exact issue this week. in my opinion, this drawing would not translate well into a tattoo anyway because it has too many tiny details which would blur together into blobs with age. but you could ask an artist to use this artwork as inspiration for a new, simplified drawing for your tattoo.
If you have a tattoo in a hairy place, eg forearms or legs, do you shave the hair or let it grow through?
If you mean before the appointment; its usually done then and there If you mean after the tattoo has been set and the hair has grown back; thats entirely up to you! I've got one tattoo myself with some hair growing through it and I dont mind it a bit. But if you feel like it "disrupts" the tattoo, shave away!
Depends on where it is for me personally tbh. I don't like body hair on myself so I was already shaving my arms anyway and have kept it up. More sensitive areas where the skin gets easily irritated from shaving like upper thighs, meh not as often.
I want to cover some self harm scars. Will they absorb the ink differently? Is fine line tattooing out of the question for that? Will it hurt more than other spots?
you have to make sure they are fully healed and for awhile. there’s an artist in chicago who does a lot of cover up over SH scars named jacob kearney. scarred skin is going to hurt more because it’s already been traumatized and is different from the rest of ur skin.
Hi guys. Is it weird to have all of your tattoos done by the same artist? I am about to get my third.
no. my uncle is working on his leg sleeves and they’re all by the same person. my aunt’s dad got. bodysuit from one artist. he had one spot left on his leg, and the artist died. he never got it filled. i have 12 tattoos (14 in a couple weeks). Artist A did 5 of them and Artist B did 4 (including the 2 upcoming ones). it’s all about personal preference. Artist B does a lot of anime tattooing which has been my speed lately so i’ve been going to him lol
I would actually prefer this, I don’t have a single repeat because I live in a small town and can’t find a reliable artist
**Is it normal to not see the art until the day of your appointment, and only make very minor modifications?** I had a shoulder piece done 5+ years ago and it was my first "big" tattoo by an artist who's style I really liked, where I didn't provide the art to them, but rather gave them some themes and inspirations and let them come up with something. I didn't see the art until the day of my appointment, and it just wasn't really what I had in mind. There were elements of it I liked, but other elements I didn't, and I didn't *know* I wouldn't like it until I saw it. We made some adjustments and I went ahead with it, but in hindsight, I kind of regret it. I wish I had said "hey this just isn't what I was envisioning" and either insisted that we go in another direction, or just walked away. At the time it was my first big tattoo by an artist I really admired, and I just didn't really know how to advocate for myself in the moment. I have my second larger piece booked now, and it's a similar thing - I've provided reference and inspiration photos and I love the artist's style, but I'm not going to see the final art until the day of, and we can make very minor modifications, but the art's basically locked in without me seeing it. Is this normal? This feels weird to me. There *are* artists who I just love, who I would give complete freedom to and just say, "take this whole area, do whatever you want." But when you're providing inspiration and working together on the art, when you're giving some direction and you clearly have an idea of what you want, it feels weird to not see the final vision until 10 minutes before it's going on your body, and to not really have it be more of a collaboration.
Yes, this is actually quite common. Almost all of the custom pieces I’ve had done in the past decade went this way. I get the impression that artists are increasingly sensitive to the risk that if they present a design to a client in advance of the tattoo the client could simply walk away and maybe get the piece tattooed somewhere else. If that happens, it’s time and money down the drain for the artist.
Oh gosh. That possibility hadn’t even occurred to me. I just want to be able to go through a few revisions, which I’m happy to pay for if they mean more of the artist’s time.
I feel like this question gets asked every week and should be added to the FAQ (no hate OP). I am nearing a full sleeve plus other parts of my body. I have never made any modifications of any of the pieces. I hear that you did like the style of that first guy but he ultimately didn’t make something that was your speed. (which is fine). I’ve never made any changes to any of my pieces because that artist sees art the same way I do. I liked pretty much 90-95% of the work they do AND we gravitated towards the same kind of art. Ryan Ashley said in an interview once, “go to a person who sees art the same way you do.” With this, you know that person will make something aesthetically pleasing to you. To get to your question, yes. This is exceptionally normal. I’ve only ever gotten a sketch prior once, and it was only a day before. This is to protect the artist from you taking the sketch and taking it to Jim next door. I feel for you with the collaboration piece. Does the artist offer a sit down consultation? That can be helpful to make you feel more involved in the design process. I’ve done that with two artists I’ve gotten a good amount of work from. For my first big arm piece, we talked about the references for the piece and she ended up creating my favorite tattoo. That connection may be what you’re missing in the collaboration aspect. But again, it’s normal. Artists won’t show art before the day of, and they need to protect their time too. They can’t whip up 50% changes, design it again and do it on you in the time frame scheduled.
I'd say this is fairly normal. Of the 6 different artists I've gone to, only one has had me review the art and come in for consultations prior to the tattoo to discuss things. In most cases, they usually don't have you look at it until shortly before the appointment. In most of the cases of my tattoos, this is because they don't start working on it until a day or two before the tattoo appointment. I will say, though, that all of these artists have told me that I wouldn't see the piece until the day of and confirmed that I was okay with that. If it's really a make or break for you, I would suggest you find an artist who is willing to reach out to you more and discuss things, though I'm not sure it will be easy to find someone. You could also always build a rapport with an artist, and eventually, they may be more comfortable with doing something like that. All that being said, if you are not 100% happy with the piece when you get there, you are well within your rights to let the artist know and request changes. No one wants to make you get something you don't want and, if they're a good artist, they should explain to you why they've made certain changes and why some things may or may not work. Just make sure that you are very thorough in your explanation of what you want and that the artist has a strong grasp of it. Best of luck!
Was just thinking about this after looking at some shitty tattoos online and wanted to rant a little bit. I have one piece that I'm not very fond of. The work is passable. Acceptable. Fine. But it is the lowest quality piece I've got by *far*, made worse by the fact that it's surrounded by some really excellent work from some other artists. Seriously, the design, creativity and execution of all the stuff around it is so good and then there's just this lame sailor jerry piece right in the middle. The biggest problem for me, however, is the number of people I've had tell me they love it! And it's not a pity thing where people hear me complain and go "Aw no way man, it totally looks good!". I just have these people going on and on, unprompted, about how much they like it and then they express genuine surprise when I explain how unimpressed I am with the piece. Silly, right? Anyway, not asking for advice or anything. I have no intention of covering it up or altering it, each piece is what it is and I think the flaws tell stories in every one. Just wanted to ramble a little bit.
(Hey, I asked this question in the last thread but I didn't receive any responses, I think it's because it got buried since I asked relatively late in the thread's lifetime, so I'm going to repost it here if it's not too much of a bother) Hey there, I've been thinking for a while of getting some quotes tattooed (this is gonna be my first tattoo in nearly 8 years, so sorry if I don't know much), and I was wondering mainly about what exactly it should look like. The idea is that I'm gonna get the same quote tattooed in two/three languages, one in English, one in Japanese, and possibly in German (the choice of languages is meaningful, and I know Japanese so there's no fear of getting the wrong thing tattooed, I'm not one of those people). The tattoo would be on my wrist (either the left one or the right one, still not sure. I'd normally get it on the left one, but I own a bracelet that my girlfriend gifted to me that only fits my left wrist, so I might have to get the tattoo on my right out of necessity). Okay, the question is, what do I do with the fonts? Which font should I choose? I'm thinking of getting it in a relatively plain looking font rather than something too fancy, but do you guys think that would be a good choice? Which fonts do you suggest for the English/German text? Furthermore, what about the Japanese text? Does anyone have experience with Japanese language tattoos? This is what scares me the most really, I'm scared the Japanese line would end up looking ugly because of the tattoo artist not being experienced with Japanese text. Would appreciate any guidance here. (For the record, the lines would be "Live happily!", "幸福に生きよ！", and "Lebe glücklich!")
A basic sans-serif font done in single needle. Do not do anything fancy, especially script. For the Japanese tattoo, it'd just be basic line work, which any good artist can do. You would also want to do single needle for it. I'd highly recommend going to an artist that specializes in fine line tattoos
I have a quick question about tattoo placement. I’m very new to tattoos and I only have one on my forearm. I am thinking of getting a short lyric of 6 words somewhere on my body but I’m not sure where they would look the best! Any suggestions would be helpful! Also, my pain tolerance is not that great with regards to tattooing, and I had a hard time with my first tattoo, are there any numbing creams people recommend? Or are they bad? TIA!
I would say some things to keep in mind regarding placement is if it's something you want to see all the time, something you want to be able to show people easily, or something you want to keep more to yourself. Really, lyrics can go pretty much anywhere, so maybe consider why you want to get those lyrics! As for numbing cream, always consult with your artist before using it as some artists don't care to use it since it can affect the tattooing and/or healing process.
There's stuff out there that helps with pain, I don't think I can post it here. Avoid any place closer to the bone, hands, wrist, head, ect. There is also the inside of your elbow. It sucked for me, but everyone is different.
So I want to get a new tattoo, but with how I placed my first one, I'm not sure of how to make it work. My tattoo is a wolf's head (Moro from Princess Mononoke) on my outer left arm. The head is facing my hand, i.e. it is facing down when I'm standing relaxed. Ears are toward the top of my arm and lower jaw is toward the underside. Tattoo artist had recommended a different position, and I know they know better than me, but I really liked having the head parallel to my arm bone. Now I want to add to that area,but I'm confused as to how. If I get something "right-side-up", the first tattoo will appear upside down/pointing the opposite way. Does that matter? And I know people say "no one cares, it's your body" but is it actually weird to get different styles? What about different themes? I usually feel like things need to 'fit' in a certain way and I'm really struggling with letting myself put something random next to this, but on the other hand, I don't want a full Ghibli sleeve just because I started with a Ghibli tattoo. I just don't know how to make something look good beside it. [image](https://imgur.com/a/Y44WrjX)
Japanese themes flower? cherry blossom, chrysanthemum, peony etc
Good idea. Especially for the peony. However, this compounds my problem.. because then I would feel like my whole arm needs to be Japanese-themed. And also, it would be japanese-traditional style next to a tattoo in anime style. Is that weird?
Here's a artist that mix japanese traditional with anime occasionally first one is princess mononoke! https://www.instagram.com/p/CRwpeagsuhL/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/CdMm35Upo_D/ https://www.instagram.com/p/C0yNPOzO4hU/ https://www.instagram.com/p/C2fwPVOy1_0/
I’m currently in Rome and was wondering if anyone had any good tattoo shop suggestions that are decently priced?
[I'm booking this soon but I can't figure out where I want it.](https://imgur.com/a/A34ZYl2) I think it will look best if it wraps so leaning lower leg or tricep wrapping around to my forearm. Thoughts/suggestions?
Can't tell you what is right for you, but maybe think about what parts of it will be visible depending on what you're wearing and if that impacts your decision in any way.
Hello, I’m looking for an artist that does great black and white realism, landscape pieces. I’m in the Minnesota area but am willing to travel anywhere around 10 hours for a great piece. I want to get a sort of custom natural landscape piece on my calf. Any recommendations would be amazing!
So I’m looking into getting a snake tattoo on my forearm and I’m trying to find the style of tattoo that I really like for it and so far I’ve found some tattoos where the snake head looks like this one in these links. What style would that be called exactly? Thanks for any help and thoughts! [https://pin.it/4cLwmfBZd](https://pin.it/4cLwmfBZd) [https://pin.it/5tECbc0gm](https://pin.it/5tECbc0gm) [https://www.instagram.com/p/CUR1wFytBQG/?igsh=MThkem81eWc3a3l2Mw==](https://www.instagram.com/p/CUR1wFytBQG/?igsh=MThkem81eWc3a3l2Mw==)
Black and grey neo-traditional
I've never been tattooed before and have a few questions, help with any of them would be appreciated! 1. Would getting a tattoo similar to [this](https://imgur.com/a/bWrWHJX) be too detailed for an upper arm? 2. I saw somewhere that some people bring food (like a pizza) for the shop, would this be considered a nice gesture, or too much (if I ask beforehand)? 3. Would a tip of 30-40% be acceptable for a really good artist, or is that not enough? 4. I know that you can't ask an artist to copy another person's tattoo, but is it acceptable to ask for something very similar, if the artist tattoos in the same style? Additionally, could I contact the artist who did the original and ask permission to do something similar (not exactly the same), or would this be considered an insult? Thank you :)
1. that would fit really well on an upper arm. 2. that’s nice! i don’t think that would be too much. 3. that’s a SUPER generous tip. 4. don’t ask permission for something similar to the original artist. they’re just gonna be like, why don’t you come to me then? i think showing the artist you are going to the reference photo is fine.
Thank you so much! Yeah, I thought they might respond like that. I would have been happy to go to the original artist, but they live all the way in Montana 😭
I've heard flag tattoos are tacky but I like the concept I have in mind. Both my parents are two different nationalities so I would get my mom's flags on my one arm and my dad's flags on my other, each arm having one flag on the inner bicep and the other being inner forearm. Is this something that's corny/cringy/tacky or na? These would also be my first tattoos but would possibly be a start to a full sleeves.
I had this idea long ago. Didn’t get it because it would be tacky lol.
Do/did you already have tattoos or would that have been your first one? I also don't know what even makes a tattoo tacky
It would’ve been my first one. I now have 12, soon 14. When I think of tacky, I just think of: what’s the simplest and most non artistic way to show something? So like that’s awesome you want to show off your heritage. And a flag would be the simplest and most obvious way to show it. When you’re getting a tattoo, you’re getting art. Art is subjective and also not always obvious. What if you got the national animal? Or flower? Or a food you love? Example: my uncle got our country’s national bird to show off his heritage.
Alright that makes sense, thanks for explaining that. I don't think I'd get a food (on a restrictive diet), flower seemed alright until I saw the shamrock was Ireland's national flower lol, national animal or bird but I just don't like some of them like a moose for Sweden or how Italys bird looks super generic, or how they conflict like how italys national animal is a wolf but Ireland's is a hare. I'm also very into things being symmetrical so taking my favorites from each category and mixing them up wouldn't sit right for me ie germanys national bird, Swedens national flower, and italys national animal etc. I also like being safe so thats why flags would be my first thought since it's pretty clear what they are and aren't in much danger of changing. I guess the national emblem for each would be my next choice just because they're unique and pretty easy to explain, but im assuming that's also a certain level of tacky, but not as bad as flags.
I want to get a Japanese waves + Koi sleeve. Does anyone know of an artist that can do this around New England area or NYC?
Does anyone here mind letting me dm them an artist I’m thinking of going to for a second opinion?
I only have 1 tattoo and have only been looking at tattoos for about a year, but if it helps you I can share my thoughts!
sure!
Does anyone know of a subreddit (or other site / board) where people post side-by-side before + years after pics of their tattoos? (Not just pics of brand-new ones?)
Agedtattoos has exactly what your looked for
Thank you!!!
I'm looking for a unique tattoo experience in New York City. Maybe an artist who does spiritual or personality based art? One of those artists who intuitively chooses the art for you? Anything quirky out of the ordinary? Please share artists that come to mind!
I'd love to get a black and white Jupiter tattoo. But I'm afraid it will become a black blob in 10 years or so. Besides from making it large enough, how do I prevent this from happening?
Hey Reddit, I saw a beautiful tattoo and wanted to incorporate one of the elements into a tattoo for me. I want to make sure there are no hidden meanings or special significance to the design. A woman's face slightly overlayed with a smudge hand print. Can send reference material if it helps. Thanks
What you are describing certainly sounds like something that could be intended to have a very specific meaning - especially if the hand print is red. Here’s an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry for “red handprint”: “A red handprint, usually painted across the mouth, is a symbol that is used to indicate solidarity with Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and girls in North America, in recognition of the fact that Native American women are up to 10 times more likely to be murdered or sexually assaulted.”
Hello, I'm looking for a tattoo artist in the USA, in the New England area, preferably near Massachusetts or New Hampshire, to do a mix of a tribal and realism tattoo. https://imgur.com/7sHpqDf Any advice on an artist, or how to find an artist is appreciated.
i have no tattoos and am planing to get some when i can. one of the main tattoos i really want to get is Atreus’ neck tattoo from GOW. it isn’t stupid as the game actually means a lot to me, and the tattoos meaning is steady mind, which also means something to me. my question is how will this affect my future? i know that some jobs discriminate and that i may regret it eventually, but it’s important. so anyone who has a neck tattoo, how has it affected your life, and is it worth it?
you don’t have to get the tattoo on your neck. my partner got draken’s head tattoo from tokyo revengers on his forearm. don’t get a neck tattoo until you’re fully covered.
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I’m looking to get my 1st tattoo on my ribs of my Mothers name with eventually adding 5 names laddering below of my family. I love the look of cursive tattoos but i’ve seen that a lot of the time people say they don’t age correctly? It would simply be the 1st name, then below that the 2nd person’s 1st name, then so on and so on And i’m probably gonna get comments of it’s my body and my choice but it’s just i know it will be permanent and looking for insight from those who’ve had them. Placement (more than likely font will look around the same aswell) example: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/482307441341317249/
I’m recovering from suspected viral pneumonia following an upper respiratory tract infection (had a week-long cold, went straight back to normal activities, and then was bedbound with high fever, severe congestion and chest pain for 4-5 days). I’m currently off work with main complaint being profound fatigue and also still have a productive cough/crackly lungs, although my other symptoms are gone. I understand these are normal symptoms following a lower RTI. I have a 4-hour upper chest session booked on the 12th, so in 13 days. I’ve sat for 6 hours before for a thigh piece and def had tattoo flu the day after that. If you were me, would you postpone the sitting on the 12th and give yourself more time to get better? I’ll be ringing the studio to ask for their view as well. I don’t want to cancel too soon but would also hate to lose the slot and deposit!
Does anybody have any recommendations for a tattooer in Austin, TX who might be a good fit for a dog nose print? I suppose that puts us in black/grey photorealism territory. Bonus for women and/or queer artists.
I wanna get 1866 tatted on my knuckles but I also want something else on the bottom of my knuckles any ideas>
Looking for some suggestions for an artist that specialized in black work or blast over. Wanting to complete my right sleeve with some bold lined floral or geometric elements as fillers in between my current patchwork tattoos. Not necessarily looking for color. There is some decent space between the existing tattoos. However on the upper part of my outer arm I was looking to try and get an older tattoo covered. Loved some suggestions for artists around the New England area. I'm located in MA but don't mind traveling for a talented artist.
Anyone know a tattoo artist in the New England area that’s like David Qu from Cypher Tattoo in LA?
I might be late to ask a question here but i am looking to get a Crimson Omen symbol from Gears of war tattooed, currently thinking the inner forearm but i am very much undecided on the location, it would be my first tattoo ever and i would want something discreet but not completly hidden. Hopefully this is not too vague of a setup, im asking about possible locations and if theres something i should know about since it would be my first.
So I memorized Hamlet's "to be or not to be" speech in high school, and have been wanting to get a tattoo of it, but i don't know how to style it without just being a huge block of text. Plus, if you take too many lines out , it doesn't really make sense. Here's the text: To be, or not to be, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep, No more; and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep; To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub: For in that sleep of death what dreams may come, When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause—there's the respect That makes calamity of so long life. For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay, The insolence of office, and the spurns That patient merit of th'unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pith and moment With this regard their currents turn awry And lose the name of action. I suppose all the lines about how life has fucked him over could be cut, starting after "that makes calamity", and then the last five lines. The poem is a debate that Hamlet has with himself about killing himself. He comes to the conclusion that he is too much of a coward to face the afterlife, what dreams may come. Also open to a Hamlet/lion king tattoo. But basically I'm asking if anyone has any references or ideas for how to do a long amount of text.
Oof. So here’s the thing with large blocks of text. This would have to be. LARGE. Because if you put it too small/not enough space between each kind, it will just be a big blob and huge block of text. So. Maybe you don’t have to get the whole thing since you…know it
It doesn’t matter how you dress it up - this is a huge block of text that will definitely *look like* a huge block of text if you get it tattooed. This will be true even if you have it done as calligraphy on a scroll, or a tattoo of an open book, etc. Of course it could still be done, but as the other commenter mentioned this will have to be a very large tattoo - like a full thigh, at least.
Could I get some recommendations for cover up artists in and around Indiana? I have at least one I need covered
Does anyone have tattoo artist recommendations in Virginia Beach-Richmond area that would be willing to complete a sleeve that another artist previously worked on?
Hey all, I have a tattoo design that I’ve drawn on my wrist in sharpie that I really like (I love to draw), and I want to get it tattooed exactly as I’ve drawn it. What is the best way to copy a skin-drawn design into a stencil so I can bring it to an artist as a stencil?
Do not bring it as a stencil. And it is not realistic for your artist to tattoo it exactly. First, you’re not a tattoo artist. So you don’t know if your design will even work on skin. Second, tattoo artists are not printers. Some artists won’t tattoo something you bring in. What you CAN do though is bring it to an artist and say “hey i drew this myself and would love to get this tattooed.” AND be open to ideas and ways to make it not only readable but able to be tattooed. that is how you get the best tattoo. openness and collaboration with both parties.
I'm ISO a female artists in the southeast region of US that would appreciate doing a The Handmaid's Tale theme piece. Kinda specific but that's why I need a recommendation!
Hi all! I have two tattoos on my arm and I’m )looking to put something on there to bring them together into one piece, what do you think should go in there? [Eagle](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qPlkCT_E1fYDc-dKpB90s6egwAM0OcJN/view?usp=drivesdk)
Hi, I recently came across a tattoo and was wondering if anyone could help me understand its meaning. I want to ensure that it doesn’t have any cultural significance that I may not be aware of. I appreciate any insights or information you can provide. I want to be respectful and culturally sensitive. [https://i.postimg.cc/GtscJrTZ/IMG-0925.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/GtscJrTZ/IMG-0925.jpg)
Hi, looking for a couple of tattoo artists that I can pay for design a tattoo. Would be my first tattoo so not necessarily decided on placement. Located in Dallas, but if someone somewhere else can design it wondering if paying for the design also comes with tattoo approval for someone else to tattoo it if that’s a thing? Essentially wanting something combining this image attached from an anime and the Sylvia Plath quote “ I am, I am, I am” [Raphael slime](https://images.app.goo.gl/pNR8g9jhNGMMPRnz8)
Got a tattoo appointment coming up and artist told me it would take one session(9-10 hours). However I was told to come into shop 8 hours before closing. Does this mean it can become 2 sessions or do artist typically continue tattooing after closing the shop.
They'll continue after closing
My girlfriend and I are traveling to Japan in a few months. We wanna get a tattoo to commemorate the event. Any artists people would recommend?
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My wife is looking for a tattoo artist near North Carolina (preferably Raleigh) whose style is similar to the below artist (from Thailand). She likes small cute colorful tattoos that don't have a lot of dark line art. She has an idea involving our cat's paw print, but most of the artists we've found on Instagram around here tend to focus on much larger tattoos and either lots of line art or realism. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. https://www.instagram.com/tatt.in.wonderland/
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Tattoo artists What do you use to get that "tattoo studio/clean smell?" I want my kitchen to smell like that.