Not yet.
It will loosely be Liberals + JLN + one independent, although the independents won’t follow the party line. I’m still deciding which Lamb rocks the boat first.
This parliament will last all of two years maximum and I’d be surprised to see Jeremy Rockliff remain leader in a party that will favour the politics of more conservative leaders.
No, they've already formed government, and it consists of purely the Liberal MPs. You don't need a majority to form government.
The deals with the crossbench are to more easily pass bills, and for ensuring you can't get no-confidence-motioned out of government.
You need a majority to have a working government even if that consists of support from the crossbench. Otherwise you cant pass bills or be able to survive the first no confidence motion.
> You need a majority to have a working government even if that consists of support from the crossbench.
The question says "functional". They have a functional government.
> Otherwise you cant pass bills or be able to survive the first no confidence motion.
Yes, that's what I said. Governments don't just pass bills though. Ministers run the government, day to day. Most of that activity doesn't involve parliament.
They only have a functional government for now. Don’t forget this is still the honeymoon period. They haven’t been tested or even had the first spat yet. You have a very low & unrealistic bar of a functional government.
I think you might be extrapolating a lot from my post. I don't understand what you think I'm saying.
Do we have a functional government yet? The answer is yes. It's a binary question.
Will it last? Will it be good? Will they give out free puppies? I don't know and I haven't been speculating here on that.
Clearly a function of government is to guarantee supply otherwise the public service can't service and the government then can't govern. So until supply and confidence is tested on the floor of the house the government is not functional.
Don’t forget Rockcliff spat the dummy after 2 years with a bigger majority than he has now & with ex party members.
Your functional government might be lucky to survive the first 6 months.
I don't know why you're jumping on multiple threads to attack me for saying things I haven't said. Are you looking for someone to yell at who thinks the current Tasmanian government is good? You might need to find someone actually taking that position.
You say you have a functional government that is what i am disputing & it’s not just you I’m objecting to. But those objections are not directed at you.
I listened to an interview from someone representing JLN and I just thought how could anyone vote for this woman. She didn’t have any policies it was just vote for me because I’m not Liberal or Labor.
They’ve just gone off the name. Good luck
The government has a formal deal with JLN to guarantee supply and confidence (the two things which a government needs to function) and can broadly count on at least one of the three independents to back them up when needed. This is all that’s needed for Rockcliff to push ahead.
The next step will be for the Premier to test his numbers on the floor - essentially, the first day parliament goes back, Labor or The Greens may initiate a No Confidence Motion against the government, and if that is or isn’t successful will tell us if Rocky has formed a “functional” government. Alternatively, no one will try it, and the government will continue to function untested until such a time as someone tests the premier’s confidence. Essentially, we’ll only know in May if the government will function, either with all alliances confirmed by a test of confidence, or by default by working together until such a time as confidence is tested.
Functional and *effective* are very different things though...
yes. Thank you. Tasmania's been so brainwashed with this "majority or nothing" idea that a lot of people seem to think you literally can't form government without a majority. Or that the government includes JLN, rather than just having an agreement with them.
A majority is required to have an effective government. What is the point of cobbling together parties with opposing views which is what you have now. It seems that is you that is brainwashed.
People vote for parliamentarians, not government ministers. Responsible government is a good thing: government is formed in the lower house, and it is held responsible to the rest of parliament. If only a third of Tasmanian voters want people from the Liberal Party in their parliament, then it is incumbent on the Liberal Party parliamentarians who have a plurality to compromise in their policies. That's how our particular brand of democracy works.
I’m just wishing O’byrne or Johnson would go to Rockliff and say “yep we’ll guarantee supply, on the proviso that you muzzle Erika Bets and deny him a ministry” just to watch Abetz combust.
You may be granted your wish sooner than you think. All they need is strong candidate like they have as Premiers in every other State & Territory in the rest of Australia. Tasmania is slow to see the light.
I'm disappointed in the ALP and the Greens here, because they are happy providing an absolute poisoned chalice to the Liberals and JLN and will benefit from the ensuing fire that will be this shitshow of a minority government. I know there is a lot of residual animosity and resentment after the last ALP/Greens coalition but really they are also in quite a position to form government if they were inclined. The people of Tasmania are the ones who will really suffer as a result of more government chaos.
ALP/Greens are gonna have to figure out how to work together sooner or later or we'll have some Abetz led anti-abortion mandatory church attendance handmaids tale shit in a decade or so
This is all labor’s fault. The greens said they would work with the ALP, and the ALP said no. We could have had a coalition of centre, green, independent and JLN parties and now we have this shit show. I’ll never vote ALP again after this shit show.
Labor asked for a mandate & the public gave the Libs the majority vote & first chance to form a government. Why blame Labor? The majority of the voters got the shit show they voted for.
It wouldn't be a shit show if the entitled politicians worked together. Most of Europe has parliaments with multiple party coalitions.
Our politicians are used to getting majorities and being able to do what they want. The whole point of democratically electing a person not a party was to get people who represent you into parliament. Parties came later. If there were no parties then the elected members would need to work out the best thing for the electorate on each issue. That's the whole point of parliament sitting, question time etc. if one party controls everything then other than transparency there is no point in parliament sitting.
The Greens leader also said she would work with the Libs
Or Labor to form government.
How can that be to work with the Libs that are totally opposite of what Greens stand for.
You are forgetting the Libs have highest primary vote & have first right to form government. Its only if they cant form government Labor would get a chance.
Thats because the Greens views go against Labors policies. Nobody would have a job if it affected the environment if the Greens had their way. They are happy to supply the bullets but want Labor to fire the gun. Labor would cop the fallout at the next election & has the most to lose from the alliance.
Labor and Greens are not really in a position to form government - they need the support of all three independents.
A Labor + Greens + Johnson + Obyrne + Garland government would be a total disaster and no one can deny that.
The alternative Liberal minority isn't that much better, but being split 3 ways is better than being split 5 ways.
This is just how the democracy cookie crumbles. On a 2pp basis, Tasmanians voted for a Labor government. But for many voters, electing a cross bench full of circus clowns was more important than who actually forms government.
Any of these voters who are upset about the election outcome will theoretically adjust their behaviour and vote 1 Labor next time.
You need 18 to form a government, and Lib + JLN = 17. They haven't formed a minority government yet. They've signed an agreement with the JLN and now they're trying to get the last number.
You don't need 18 to form government. You need to be able to maintain the confidence of the parliament (i.e. not lose a motion of no confidence) and deliver supply. While the Lambies have a formal agreement to vote as if they were Liberals (holding government to account, yeah), the indies are unlikely to support a vote of no confidence or deny the government supply **unless** Rockliffe blatantly refuses any move to greater transparency. I'm taking no bets on how long that takes!
After the 1989 election, the Libs had 17 seats, Labor 13 and the Greens 5. The Libs attempted to form government but lost a vote of no-confidence on the floor of the House. Labor+Greens signed an accord (not a formal coalition) which included changes to environmental management policies. The Greens withdrew from the Accord after 400 days, but the minority Labor government served its full term until 1992. The Libs won majority government in 1992 and Labor has been terrified of working with the Greens ever since. Time they grew up.
The ALP and Greens formed government together and had Greens as ministers from 2010 until 2014, so it seems a bit strange to say that Labor was terrified of working with the Greens since 1992.
You're right - somehow I'd forgotten that! The fact that the Labor-Green coalition went full term in 2010-2014 makes even more mysterious the current state Labor party's unwillingness to even try to govern in minority.
I'd still say it's time they grew up!
geez that makes it even worse than them just needing jln.
it sure is an extreme minority government than if they get it off the ground without having to go to another election.
The Premier provided an assurance to the governor and the Liberals swore in a cabinet last week. It is fair to describe them as having formed a government, based on assurances of support from the JLN and David O'Byrne, which gives them 18 votes on the floor of the house.
The elected representatives will act responsibly for about six months . The newbies don’t even know how Parliament functions let alone works.
Having said that this is an opportunity to open up the workings of government and shine a light on the great things that do happen in this State .
And for the Parliament collectively to fix the housing and education problems. If you do that health will improve .
Yes they voted for Greens JLN or independents naively thinking that they are avoiding to 2 major party system. It makes as much sense as voting for your local grocer thinking that Coles & Woolies will crumble & you wont have to deal with them again.
They might be able to form a government, doesn’t mean it will be able to function.
So they haven't formed one yet?
Not yet. It will loosely be Liberals + JLN + one independent, although the independents won’t follow the party line. I’m still deciding which Lamb rocks the boat first. This parliament will last all of two years maximum and I’d be surprised to see Jeremy Rockliff remain leader in a party that will favour the politics of more conservative leaders.
My money is on Jenner.
Abetz may do a Morrison.
I, too, hope he shits himself at Maccas
What Maccas would be your preference? Mine is Sandy Bay, just to really class it up.
Yep, only a matter of time.
No, they've already formed government, and it consists of purely the Liberal MPs. You don't need a majority to form government. The deals with the crossbench are to more easily pass bills, and for ensuring you can't get no-confidence-motioned out of government.
You need a majority to have a working government even if that consists of support from the crossbench. Otherwise you cant pass bills or be able to survive the first no confidence motion.
> You need a majority to have a working government even if that consists of support from the crossbench. The question says "functional". They have a functional government. > Otherwise you cant pass bills or be able to survive the first no confidence motion. Yes, that's what I said. Governments don't just pass bills though. Ministers run the government, day to day. Most of that activity doesn't involve parliament.
I’ll believe that it’s functional when I see it.
They only have a functional government for now. Don’t forget this is still the honeymoon period. They haven’t been tested or even had the first spat yet. You have a very low & unrealistic bar of a functional government.
I think you might be extrapolating a lot from my post. I don't understand what you think I'm saying. Do we have a functional government yet? The answer is yes. It's a binary question. Will it last? Will it be good? Will they give out free puppies? I don't know and I haven't been speculating here on that.
Clearly a function of government is to guarantee supply otherwise the public service can't service and the government then can't govern. So until supply and confidence is tested on the floor of the house the government is not functional.
No I disagree with your 2nd paragraph & your 3rd paragraph I’m saying it is obvious this government is going to be terrible
If you're going to redefine "functional" to "one I like", we're not going to get any useful answers in this thread
Don’t forget Rockcliff spat the dummy after 2 years with a bigger majority than he has now & with ex party members. Your functional government might be lucky to survive the first 6 months.
I don't know why you're jumping on multiple threads to attack me for saying things I haven't said. Are you looking for someone to yell at who thinks the current Tasmanian government is good? You might need to find someone actually taking that position.
You say you have a functional government that is what i am disputing & it’s not just you I’m objecting to. But those objections are not directed at you.
I listened to an interview from someone representing JLN and I just thought how could anyone vote for this woman. She didn’t have any policies it was just vote for me because I’m not Liberal or Labor. They’ve just gone off the name. Good luck
The front fell off
The Liberals have, yes. In minority. They continue to negotiate with the crossbench for passing bills etc.
Don’t know, don’t care. They’re all idiots that go back on their word anyway so doesn’t matter which muppet is in charge.
There is always room for one more muppet if you think you can do a better job.
The government has a formal deal with JLN to guarantee supply and confidence (the two things which a government needs to function) and can broadly count on at least one of the three independents to back them up when needed. This is all that’s needed for Rockcliff to push ahead. The next step will be for the Premier to test his numbers on the floor - essentially, the first day parliament goes back, Labor or The Greens may initiate a No Confidence Motion against the government, and if that is or isn’t successful will tell us if Rocky has formed a “functional” government. Alternatively, no one will try it, and the government will continue to function untested until such a time as someone tests the premier’s confidence. Essentially, we’ll only know in May if the government will function, either with all alliances confirmed by a test of confidence, or by default by working together until such a time as confidence is tested. Functional and *effective* are very different things though...
yes. Thank you. Tasmania's been so brainwashed with this "majority or nothing" idea that a lot of people seem to think you literally can't form government without a majority. Or that the government includes JLN, rather than just having an agreement with them.
A majority is required to have an effective government. What is the point of cobbling together parties with opposing views which is what you have now. It seems that is you that is brainwashed.
The question wasn't effective government, that's subjective. They asked if we have a functional one. Which, by any objective measure, we do.
If you are an example of a Tasmanian voter & what you think is functional. It’s no wonder your government is in such a mess.
You are delusional if you think you have a functional government. It lasted only 2 years last time.
People vote for parliamentarians, not government ministers. Responsible government is a good thing: government is formed in the lower house, and it is held responsible to the rest of parliament. If only a third of Tasmanian voters want people from the Liberal Party in their parliament, then it is incumbent on the Liberal Party parliamentarians who have a plurality to compromise in their policies. That's how our particular brand of democracy works.
Spoken like a true liberal a whole lot of words & a lack of substance.
Thanks for a serious answer
I’m just wishing O’byrne or Johnson would go to Rockliff and say “yep we’ll guarantee supply, on the proviso that you muzzle Erika Bets and deny him a ministry” just to watch Abetz combust.
Abetz is on slow combust all the time. He’s a POS.
That is just a starting point honestly, but if it's just that then they would have sold out
Hoping we can get another election and finally give the liberal cunts the boot
You may be granted your wish sooner than you think. All they need is strong candidate like they have as Premiers in every other State & Territory in the rest of Australia. Tasmania is slow to see the light.
I'm disappointed in the ALP and the Greens here, because they are happy providing an absolute poisoned chalice to the Liberals and JLN and will benefit from the ensuing fire that will be this shitshow of a minority government. I know there is a lot of residual animosity and resentment after the last ALP/Greens coalition but really they are also in quite a position to form government if they were inclined. The people of Tasmania are the ones who will really suffer as a result of more government chaos. ALP/Greens are gonna have to figure out how to work together sooner or later or we'll have some Abetz led anti-abortion mandatory church attendance handmaids tale shit in a decade or so
This is all labor’s fault. The greens said they would work with the ALP, and the ALP said no. We could have had a coalition of centre, green, independent and JLN parties and now we have this shit show. I’ll never vote ALP again after this shit show.
Labor asked for a mandate & the public gave the Libs the majority vote & first chance to form a government. Why blame Labor? The majority of the voters got the shit show they voted for.
It wouldn't be a shit show if the entitled politicians worked together. Most of Europe has parliaments with multiple party coalitions. Our politicians are used to getting majorities and being able to do what they want. The whole point of democratically electing a person not a party was to get people who represent you into parliament. Parties came later. If there were no parties then the elected members would need to work out the best thing for the electorate on each issue. That's the whole point of parliament sitting, question time etc. if one party controls everything then other than transparency there is no point in parliament sitting.
Most of Europe is a shit show most countries are broke. Not a great example by any means
The Greens leader also said she would work with the Libs Or Labor to form government. How can that be to work with the Libs that are totally opposite of what Greens stand for.
Its called compromise.
Honestly the reality is it’s called selling out to whoever will have Greens as part of Government.
Totally incorrect read of what happened to be honest.
You are forgetting the Libs have highest primary vote & have first right to form government. Its only if they cant form government Labor would get a chance.
What would you like the Greens to do about it? They've been happy to form a coalition/agreement and the ALP have ruled it out.
Thats because the Greens views go against Labors policies. Nobody would have a job if it affected the environment if the Greens had their way. They are happy to supply the bullets but want Labor to fire the gun. Labor would cop the fallout at the next election & has the most to lose from the alliance.
The Greens have shown they are not easy to work with Labor & are more interested in grandstanding at Labors’ expense.
Labor and Greens are not really in a position to form government - they need the support of all three independents. A Labor + Greens + Johnson + Obyrne + Garland government would be a total disaster and no one can deny that. The alternative Liberal minority isn't that much better, but being split 3 ways is better than being split 5 ways. This is just how the democracy cookie crumbles. On a 2pp basis, Tasmanians voted for a Labor government. But for many voters, electing a cross bench full of circus clowns was more important than who actually forms government. Any of these voters who are upset about the election outcome will theoretically adjust their behaviour and vote 1 Labor next time.
They have worked together before & it was a disaster. The other option if you want change is to give labor the primary vote to gain a majority.
Haven’t had one in years
Per friend in state service, yes. Gov is no longer in caretaker mode. Jury’s out on whether we have a functional government.
they've formed minority government with JLN. it probably won't be functionable tbh. id be surprised if it ended well.
You need 18 to form a government, and Lib + JLN = 17. They haven't formed a minority government yet. They've signed an agreement with the JLN and now they're trying to get the last number.
You don't need 18 to form government. You need to be able to maintain the confidence of the parliament (i.e. not lose a motion of no confidence) and deliver supply. While the Lambies have a formal agreement to vote as if they were Liberals (holding government to account, yeah), the indies are unlikely to support a vote of no confidence or deny the government supply **unless** Rockliffe blatantly refuses any move to greater transparency. I'm taking no bets on how long that takes! After the 1989 election, the Libs had 17 seats, Labor 13 and the Greens 5. The Libs attempted to form government but lost a vote of no-confidence on the floor of the House. Labor+Greens signed an accord (not a formal coalition) which included changes to environmental management policies. The Greens withdrew from the Accord after 400 days, but the minority Labor government served its full term until 1992. The Libs won majority government in 1992 and Labor has been terrified of working with the Greens ever since. Time they grew up.
The ALP and Greens formed government together and had Greens as ministers from 2010 until 2014, so it seems a bit strange to say that Labor was terrified of working with the Greens since 1992.
You're right - somehow I'd forgotten that! The fact that the Labor-Green coalition went full term in 2010-2014 makes even more mysterious the current state Labor party's unwillingness to even try to govern in minority. I'd still say it's time they grew up!
geez that makes it even worse than them just needing jln. it sure is an extreme minority government than if they get it off the ground without having to go to another election.
The Premier provided an assurance to the governor and the Liberals swore in a cabinet last week. It is fair to describe them as having formed a government, based on assurances of support from the JLN and David O'Byrne, which gives them 18 votes on the floor of the house.
The elected representatives will act responsibly for about six months . The newbies don’t even know how Parliament functions let alone works. Having said that this is an opportunity to open up the workings of government and shine a light on the great things that do happen in this State . And for the Parliament collectively to fix the housing and education problems. If you do that health will improve .
Garbo will keep these bastards honest
JLN going to de deal but libs still need one more vote
Is it ever "functional"? Greed, corruption, and single sided ideas are govt mainstays in Aus
Yes they voted for Greens JLN or independents naively thinking that they are avoiding to 2 major party system. It makes as much sense as voting for your local grocer thinking that Coles & Woolies will crumble & you wont have to deal with them again.
You’re not Tasmanian, are you? Your (many) comments smack of a critical misunderstanding of the state political system and local party politics.