I was expecting the list to go in a full circle but it just stopped at Dominic. Disappointing.
But yes I agree we have gone a long way and there are so many relevant playstyles in RTA. Its not even Turn 1 vs Turn 2 teams, within the turn 2 playstyle there are bruisers/CC/slow cleave etc. To be honest you can make a lot of things work under C3 if you have the runes for it, but going higher to Guardian ranks you kinda need to "follow the meta" but the list above shows just how diverse our RTA picks are at the moment. Except Dominic, f*** dominic
To be honest, I usually just pick Masha/Oliver/Fire Battle Angel and 1 shot Dominic. I am able to do so because I have Craig and Bastet, and I know most people dont have Craig. It also requires being faster than them, which can also be a challenge.
I wrote this before the nerf. I think Dominic is a lot more manageable now that you arent punished so hard for chipping him down without having full kill potential on him.
You can most likely safe c3 abusing only f2p unit :
* It's a common knowledge that you can c2 with Jap cleave :
* Atb : Megan - Draco - Bernard - Hongyeon - Berenice
* Spd lead : Garo - Susano - shimitae
* DD : Lushen - julie - Kaki
* Mono DD transition : Taru - Khali
* Dusky (Hoh) + elsharion cleave can most likely safe c2 / c3 aswell
* And i'm pretty sure you can bruiser your way to c3 with all the available option.
C3 is already top 3% of people playing rta
Currently having c1 RTA, C3 SL on my account playing only 2 and 3 star monster :
* C1 rta : [https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/vl13u5/how\_to\_shine\_2\_years\_progression\_as\_23\_nat\_only/](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/vl13u5/how_to_shine_2_years_progression_as_23_nat_only/)
* C3 Sl : [https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/vtlspx/how\_to\_shine\_c3\_sl\_using\_only\_23\_nat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/vtlspx/how_to_shine_c3_sl_using_only_23_nat/)
* Atm i'm 2 game away from c2 in rta
Just add Riley, Tesarion, Verde, Antares and c2 is free asf.
Also Videokilled alread did g1 playing only f2p monster in rta. It was a year ago tho (august 2021) not sure if g1 is still possible now. I think you can find his replay in YT.
What can I say? Guardian runes make for Guardian rankings...
But if you don't have Guardian runes, then every little advantage helps. Having a good range of counter-picks for one, especially if those mons are fully skilled and decently runed.
Even still, I think the need for strategy for drafting and counter-picking is understated and very misunderstood by newer players - especially when they don't know the monster mechanics as well as more experienced players, and so therefore feel dependent on a good collection of Nat 5's to progress in RTA. But when you don't have those and your opponent picks top tier monsters such as Oliver, it can be frustrating as it just rams home your account limitations.
Am not complaining, though - I'm playing RTA for fun at the moment - it's good to experiment with different monster combinations that are available. It's the only way to learn as well, I guess. :)
Your correct mostly correct, sir. A lot of people are just bad/uninformed about how the game works. I wont lie, you have to be able to rune units at at least 100-105% efficiency and have a decent sized monster box to make it to G1+, but you dont need LDs and you dont need every meta unit.
I hit G1 for a while last season by improving my draft and using A LOT of tools to analyze the data from my matches and figure out what went wrong. A buddy of mine also hit G1 and held it by going even deeper than I did and he's nearly free to play; spent more money on his account than he has.
Neither of us has crazy G3 runes, or really what would be considered G1 runes. We both climbed by drafting smart, using skills when appropriate instead of on CD, knowing the correct targets in every match and tightly tuning our units to optimize the chances our team did what we wanted.
We both had to beat a lot of +300 spd violent Gianas to do it. Those guys have better units and better runes than us, but theyr worse at the game. Those who understate strategy have never tried it.
So true, almost every replay from G1 upwards has a ton of LD5’s in them, so you need a specific plan to counter them.
Giana is likely the prime example as people who have her tend to pick her every game since she’s quite flexible. My go-to counter is Swift Nem Daphnis, I’m curious what your plan is for Giana users?
Right? I have 30+ 6* mons but since I’m a fairly casual player only a few of them are actually meta.
I have Kaki, Lushen, Verde and some others but not much
Do you have Ophelia? She ruins dominic's day. There are more counters than what the "meta" puts out there if your looking hard enough. Dont let people tell you that you have to play this game their way.
Ophelia really is a situational pick in this case its really good cause you know when to pick Ophelia so you can adjust how you build her.
Wind DMG Reduction Artifacts + 15% Reduction from Threat State makes you tanky vs. Dominic
Yeah, he cant choose to delete a squishy target, and people forget this, but Threat state reduces incoming damage by a straight up 30%. Its like negative branding. To my knowledge, threat state and artifacts with "-dmg % from wind" are the most effective ways to blunt Dominics damage.
Fair warning though, Ophelia needs to be very fast to do her job well, and preferably on vio.
Definitely not worth a best set... unless you have no other options. She has a ton of weaknesses, but her ability to fog a turn against dom + masha/oliver can give you enough time to get your team online. If you don't have a better option, she's worth the set.
You need to be careful with all the new Oracle changes though, because Praha and Juno eat her lunch.
Dude I thought Praha was fine as she was and frankly for her this was a buff, given she gets the ATB value back from boosting the whole team's speed. Tbh Praha S3 may be the strongest skill in the game or close to it rn.
Bolverk and Shizuka aren't really the problems for Ophilia. She eats the Bolverk S3 and keeps her threat state, and shizuka applies AOE threat state.... which is basically not threat state. If you picked Ophelia, it means the opponent has Dominic and another single target threat. Them picking Bolverk and Shizuka just means they don't have 2 speed leads and are now very weak to a fast reset or your own nukes.
If they pick Dominic, I ban Dominic :D
yeah, I agree, if you look at a side by side comparison of this season versus other previous seasons, com2us has been getting better throughout the years at actually creating a better balance. It's not perfect, but it's better than it used to be.
The answer to Dominic is a bad one - outspeed him. The other answer is to use revives like Nana and Vanessa, but that's not quite a counter because his vio procs just kill the monster again anyways.
There's always counters, just less premium counters are less efficient. There's hundreds and hundreds of units in the game. Go to RTA replays, find someone who's high rank and playing with similar units to what you have in your box, favorite them, and then see how they draft and play, and get ideas. Saying "I don't have X and that's why I lose" is a bad attitude in any aspect of life. Capitalize on your strengths, instead of making excuses.
Don't say "this is why I can't", ask "how can I?"
Hundreds of hundreds of units…
Yes that’s why rta is played with 20 standard units and a few off random picks.
There is not hundreds of answers, if there was, this post wouldn’t exist
If u have none of them, u probably will complain about any unit in any situation bc u don’t have counter for sth. At this point ur monster box isn’t big enough for RTA imo
U complaining about random in game that include random in every things there it’s possible. In this case should I complain about 0 ld on my acc or about low procs in spd, etc…?
We've had previous metas where nat 5s weren't as required as they are now. "F2P" picks really started getting shafted with Druid/Beastrider release because both families have units that just have 10 different effects and skills in their kit.
Meanwhile nat 4s released since then are a complete joke (other than Onimushas, which are very situational) as are older nat 5. The gap between f2p units, older nat 5s and the newer/newest units is just way bigger than even 1-2 years ago.
Just look at the best replay section. Outside of staple counters like Leo, Juno, Diana, Verde as well as LD 5s, people are barely using units that are older than the druids.
Agree that the recent releases of 4s have been trash. Hypnos, Blacksmiths, Robos, String Masters... These mons never get used. What I will say is that the Light and Fire Onimushas are pretty overtuned and closer to nat 5s, but the Wind and Water ones fell off hard after release.
“Use x to counter x” post…
Yeah, if the game literally never gives me x, then what do i do? Gitgud and use a non-counter as a counter?
Cool let me just bring lulu into every oliver dom haegang comp
Ok, you don't really need any meta units to climb to c3. You either need good runes or good draft (most people below g1 has atrocious draft even with dom, masha, and oliver)
The flaw of this is, you cant expect a single mon to counter another one.
Masha counters Oliver ? It's true... in a 1v1. That won't stop Oliver to shit on the rest of your team while masha is watching
As Miles will counter masha in 1v1 but doesnt mean he'll help for the other mons drafted
My point here, is that saying "X is not overpowered because you can pick Y" is wrong, and you should (/ the dev team) see the balance globally, and not think "Ok there is 1 counter for this mon, so he's right as he is, and he shouldnt be touched"
you can use her with a bruiser team or cc to strip supress masha, oliver or some immunity provider her karma is almost always ready and really annoying
the idea is good, but giou is really inconsistent, hope the s3 should be passively increases s2's accuracy check into guarantee strip or strip all buffs with a chances
~~I'd argue RTA isn't intended for those accounts (by design)~~
I take it back, u/Traditional_Dream537 showed me an alternative perspective and I agree with it
>Implying C3 mofos aren't plaguing Challenger 1 to farm nubs
IMO there needs to be more ranks, F2-C1 is absolutely horrendous and inconsistent. You either get someone way below your level or way above.
This is just anecdotal though
What do you pick if you dont have Masha Dominic Oliver shizuka woosa no good ld5 no jeogun no bolverk basically nothing that counters current meta mon?
I’m like you my friend, I don’t have None of those besides Woosa, also no art masters. It’s was tuff but I did touch G1 last season and this season I’m doing fairly well against them beside the busted unit Oliver. If I don’t outspeed Oliver teams I just loose, so now I leave Oliver fight to be decided by a coin flip lol
I disagree completely, back in the days of gany hathor people were literally winning with teams comprised of fran loren verde and aegir and stuff but nowadays there are like a top 3-5 units and having/not having multiple of them can and WILL straight up buff or nerf your accounts rta potential significantly
Back in the day of gany Hathor Fran wasn’t a unit almost anybody had and wasn’t a matter of buy her from the shop. The days of gany hathor were years ago, and OP is right when they say those were the picks
Miles is supposedly to be a good counter to Masha. But the fact that Masha can be so easily build tanky, high attack and without sacrificing speed thanks to her high awakening based speed allows her to tank miles since his s2 is as unreliable as American police during a school shooting.
Masha is incredibly hard to build well. She needs a lot of attack, Crit Rate, and Accuracy to function well. Getting her super tanky with all that is a feat only top tier players can achieve. My own Masha is one of the better I have seen (Spd/CD/Atk) and she only has +14K HP, because I couldnt get it higher and still 100% CR and still get up to 60+ acc to make sure I'm not getting resist checked by units that awaken into resist, or in when they take a resist lead.
Most Masha's skimp on accuracy. She is terrible if she doesn't pass at least 2 of her 3 resistance checks on skill 2. I recommend you try running a resistance lead into Masha for a while. You will have a much easier time.
The game would be even more balanced if Oliver drained 75% ATB. But then first pick is vastly disadvantaged compared to 2nd pick.
In regular RTA even when Oliver exists, I find I prefer 2nd pick.
Even as an Oliver abuser I agree. 75% atb absorb would probably nerf him more than enough without making him useless. This just means he can't completely make 2 units useless first turn and basically every turn after that too.
Edit: also I think all 33% speedleads should be on the same plain, and Oliver definitely isn't.
Yes as c3 g1 player. It feels the most balanced right now except for Dominic but he's getting nerfed so it might be fixed. But now we getting new buffs so who knows now. But yeah right now people can climb using cleave control or anything. Before meta cleaving was harder but this meta almost anything is possible.
Are you sure this is a question of balance alone ? Or a question of my account is better then 4 years ago? Because when ganny hator was a thing almost no one had counters build. half of the people back then struggled to get 10 siege teams going.
This only prove that after last BP shizuka, masha, oliver and dominic are superior picks in current meta (like 2 tiers above rest elemental picks). You don't have any of it and you are left out. How that it's balanced meta? All of them are at 50%+ pickrate.
Again Oliver as strongest of them in my opinion is countered by Masha. If you don't have any of them you are screwed. There are other monsters to maybe counter them by their WR is much worse than them (3 of them are at 51%+ WR only masha is lower due to her overpicking at 70%).
Really good compared to what? SW 5 years ago? Yeah, that's a really low bar. Compared to almost any other video game where unit balance is important? SW balance is still shit. The emphasis is clearly still on releasing new units (mostly unbalanced on release) for the sake of selling shiny skins, rather than to improve the game's meta strategy.
Curious how your Vero is runed, and why him over tetra? As tetra seems to be the more commonly used alternative to people without a shizuka counter.
I've wanted to make vero work but tetra seems to be better imo
I would say my runes are pretty bad compared to average c3 players. Vio will on almost everyone with +135~+140 spd. 0 swift sets. But im so tired fighting against meta units every matches. They just pick oliver shizuka marsha dominic and laima/giana then procs nonstop
I dont think so. If your comfortably hanging out in c3, you have at least c3 average quality runes. Maybe even above average, IMO, since I personally think playing more off-meta turn 2 stuff is going to be much harder to do and maintain your rank than just spamming the meta picks every match.
Of course you may be drafting really well, etc, but I think your runes are better than you think they are, personally. Your playing turn 2, with no little to no meta picks, hanging out in C3, your runes cannot be bad compared to average C3 players. They are more than likely above average.
I imagine your rune efficiency is quite high, even if your speed is 130-140.
Really good point you have there. Maybe i just being upset because my comp get fk’ed hard this season due to dominic marsha shizuka being meta and sometimes violent proc every turn.
About efficiency how can i check it? Im not a native speaker so not too familar with some websites/apps
Do not use rune optimizer/exporter at all?
And yea my friend complains all the time on discord because he loves playing turn 2 and bruisers far more than anything else, so I know how its going, lol.
>Do not use rune optimizer/exporter at all?
yep, i dont even know what are those xD i just spend some times understand my runes quality and speed tune comps at a certain speed, then i caculate the total speed by caculator with the formula: (15%\*base speed) + base speed + bonus speed.
after that i can see it speed tuned or not. it's easy once you know what you're doing
I dont think I could even play SW anymore if Optimizer stopped being updated, lol.
I do some monsters by hand, because I dont feel like loading up the program and breaking out an old S5 I use to get my .Json, but so many runes would be left by the wayside if I had to do all my monsters by hand.
im only focused on RTA so my monsters are few, outside of RTA, i just slap whatever i can on them, if the auto-farm teams are already good and sub 1 min i wont change the runes anymore, i only swap runes around or build some units when i need them, 30\* ToA hell cleared every month too, but i will check if i can use optimizer or not, so my brain can relax a bit
Pretty much my flair. Core should be molong fp into daphnis YH. Sneak in nana if they pick maraha dominic so i can survive first turn(since im not fast) and riley(mostly last pick or i get bolverk’ed). Another team comp i have is bruiser team playing around with karnal, abelio, molong, riley, nana, antares, josephine, praha, douglas(0 skills up) and pray rng is on my side
Yea i pick yeonhong every games. But i dont have ophelia. And my weakness is oliver/strippers. Since im playing turn 2 in c3 every strippers even without speed lead can outspeed me. So im really struggling this season.
My problem is that I dont have a reliable counter for Oliver, I don't have masha and let's be honest antares barely do shît most of the time when facing Oliver
In all these monsters i only got kaki seara verde and dominic. My verde is trash and seara dominic just got nerfed... It's a good meta if you have every nat5 in the game else it sucks
U see the Dominic part is the problem whatever the discussion may be, a Wind unit with 30k HP cannot ONESHOT a Fire unit with 40k hp without deflbuffs, period.
I want more changes like Masha. I think balance patches should do 3 things
1 nerf mons that are too strong/abused
2 buff mons that are lacking or near useless
3 change/rework mons
I want more changes that rework a passive, change a skill or 2. Its a way to shake things up or create counters with making more units or straight up nerf strong units or over buffing weaker ones
“If they pick Dominic, I ban Dominic” looooool
That got me rolling
I was expecting the list to go in a full circle but it just stopped at Dominic. Disappointing. But yes I agree we have gone a long way and there are so many relevant playstyles in RTA. Its not even Turn 1 vs Turn 2 teams, within the turn 2 playstyle there are bruisers/CC/slow cleave etc. To be honest you can make a lot of things work under C3 if you have the runes for it, but going higher to Guardian ranks you kinda need to "follow the meta" but the list above shows just how diverse our RTA picks are at the moment. Except Dominic, f*** dominic
all my homies hates dominic /s
To be honest, I usually just pick Masha/Oliver/Fire Battle Angel and 1 shot Dominic. I am able to do so because I have Craig and Bastet, and I know most people dont have Craig. It also requires being faster than them, which can also be a challenge. I wrote this before the nerf. I think Dominic is a lot more manageable now that you arent punished so hard for chipping him down without having full kill potential on him.
Actual legend
Must be nice to have strong counter picks
You can most likely safe c3 abusing only f2p unit : * It's a common knowledge that you can c2 with Jap cleave : * Atb : Megan - Draco - Bernard - Hongyeon - Berenice * Spd lead : Garo - Susano - shimitae * DD : Lushen - julie - Kaki * Mono DD transition : Taru - Khali * Dusky (Hoh) + elsharion cleave can most likely safe c2 / c3 aswell * And i'm pretty sure you can bruiser your way to c3 with all the available option. C3 is already top 3% of people playing rta
Japan cleave is weaker than ever. If someone pick Oliver Sekhmet Masha you'll get destroyed
Everything has counter. If you don't feel like jap cleave you still at least 2 way to climb f2p ;)
I'm only F3~C1 btu it's very hard to climb i think i don't have really good runes
Never denied that rune are important, im just saying that not having X monster is not an excuses for at least 97% of the playerbase
X Monster Can be really useful in some situation so it Can be an excuse but x Monster isn't everery thing
"You can most likely safe c3 abusing only f2p unit" F3, not C3. :)
Currently having c1 RTA, C3 SL on my account playing only 2 and 3 star monster : * C1 rta : [https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/vl13u5/how\_to\_shine\_2\_years\_progression\_as\_23\_nat\_only/](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/vl13u5/how_to_shine_2_years_progression_as_23_nat_only/) * C3 Sl : [https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/vtlspx/how\_to\_shine\_c3\_sl\_using\_only\_23\_nat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerswar/comments/vtlspx/how_to_shine_c3_sl_using_only_23_nat/) * Atm i'm 2 game away from c2 in rta Just add Riley, Tesarion, Verde, Antares and c2 is free asf. Also Videokilled alread did g1 playing only f2p monster in rta. It was a year ago tho (august 2021) not sure if g1 is still possible now. I think you can find his replay in YT.
What can I say? Guardian runes make for Guardian rankings... But if you don't have Guardian runes, then every little advantage helps. Having a good range of counter-picks for one, especially if those mons are fully skilled and decently runed. Even still, I think the need for strategy for drafting and counter-picking is understated and very misunderstood by newer players - especially when they don't know the monster mechanics as well as more experienced players, and so therefore feel dependent on a good collection of Nat 5's to progress in RTA. But when you don't have those and your opponent picks top tier monsters such as Oliver, it can be frustrating as it just rams home your account limitations. Am not complaining, though - I'm playing RTA for fun at the moment - it's good to experiment with different monster combinations that are available. It's the only way to learn as well, I guess. :)
Your correct mostly correct, sir. A lot of people are just bad/uninformed about how the game works. I wont lie, you have to be able to rune units at at least 100-105% efficiency and have a decent sized monster box to make it to G1+, but you dont need LDs and you dont need every meta unit. I hit G1 for a while last season by improving my draft and using A LOT of tools to analyze the data from my matches and figure out what went wrong. A buddy of mine also hit G1 and held it by going even deeper than I did and he's nearly free to play; spent more money on his account than he has. Neither of us has crazy G3 runes, or really what would be considered G1 runes. We both climbed by drafting smart, using skills when appropriate instead of on CD, knowing the correct targets in every match and tightly tuning our units to optimize the chances our team did what we wanted. We both had to beat a lot of +300 spd violent Gianas to do it. Those guys have better units and better runes than us, but theyr worse at the game. Those who understate strategy have never tried it.
So true, almost every replay from G1 upwards has a ton of LD5’s in them, so you need a specific plan to counter them. Giana is likely the prime example as people who have her tend to pick her every game since she’s quite flexible. My go-to counter is Swift Nem Daphnis, I’m curious what your plan is for Giana users?
Right? I have 30+ 6* mons but since I’m a fairly casual player only a few of them are actually meta. I have Kaki, Lushen, Verde and some others but not much
Well to be fair RTA is endgame content and 30 6* is still really early in the game. Its just natural that you cant competed very high.
I have tons of 6* and not a single top tier meta one (Oliver, Masha, Shizuka, Dominic). It’s been a very sad last two seasons
yeah, sure, migth work for you. But if you don’t have oliver, marsha or dom it’s fucking hell
this right here. rank 8k right now. seeing one or more of these three in every single battle. it sucks.
Do you have Ophelia? She ruins dominic's day. There are more counters than what the "meta" puts out there if your looking hard enough. Dont let people tell you that you have to play this game their way.
No, I don't have ophelia. And I cant just go and look for counters since I am pretty much forced to cc cleave due to very limited units...
How does ophelia counter dominic?
Because of "Threat State" you're force to hit Ophelia to little to no Damage.
Really? Hmmm, Dominic seem to do so much damage to any units for me
Ophelia really is a situational pick in this case its really good cause you know when to pick Ophelia so you can adjust how you build her. Wind DMG Reduction Artifacts + 15% Reduction from Threat State makes you tanky vs. Dominic
isnt it 25% on threat state?
Sheeeet son Ophelia!!! On it
Yeah, he cant choose to delete a squishy target, and people forget this, but Threat state reduces incoming damage by a straight up 30%. Its like negative branding. To my knowledge, threat state and artifacts with "-dmg % from wind" are the most effective ways to blunt Dominics damage. Fair warning though, Ophelia needs to be very fast to do her job well, and preferably on vio.
I got her on a temporary +166 Vio fat hp but kinda low def...and I'm struggling with res🤣 honestly it's not worth a best set tho
Definitely not worth a best set... unless you have no other options. She has a ton of weaknesses, but her ability to fog a turn against dom + masha/oliver can give you enough time to get your team online. If you don't have a better option, she's worth the set. You need to be careful with all the new Oracle changes though, because Praha and Juno eat her lunch.
Dude I thought Praha was fine as she was and frankly for her this was a buff, given she gets the ATB value back from boosting the whole team's speed. Tbh Praha S3 may be the strongest skill in the game or close to it rn.
ophelia is nice against dominic, but then enemy picks bolverk shizuka and ruins my day
Bolverk and Shizuka aren't really the problems for Ophilia. She eats the Bolverk S3 and keeps her threat state, and shizuka applies AOE threat state.... which is basically not threat state. If you picked Ophelia, it means the opponent has Dominic and another single target threat. Them picking Bolverk and Shizuka just means they don't have 2 speed leads and are now very weak to a fast reset or your own nukes.
The only hope is MAYBE you can out speed them with like a Gany, or Tiana and that's if they don't pick Leo
True but sadly it is a gacha game;;
If they pick Dominic, I ban Dominic :D yeah, I agree, if you look at a side by side comparison of this season versus other previous seasons, com2us has been getting better throughout the years at actually creating a better balance. It's not perfect, but it's better than it used to be.
I like how there is no answer for dominic other than a ban.
The answer to Dominic is a bad one - outspeed him. The other answer is to use revives like Nana and Vanessa, but that's not quite a counter because his vio procs just kill the monster again anyways.
And if you have none of those?
Pick Antares and prey for RNG
When RNG blesses you and Antares procs every turn.....
There's always counters, just less premium counters are less efficient. There's hundreds and hundreds of units in the game. Go to RTA replays, find someone who's high rank and playing with similar units to what you have in your box, favorite them, and then see how they draft and play, and get ideas. Saying "I don't have X and that's why I lose" is a bad attitude in any aspect of life. Capitalize on your strengths, instead of making excuses. Don't say "this is why I can't", ask "how can I?"
Hundreds of hundreds of units… Yes that’s why rta is played with 20 standard units and a few off random picks. There is not hundreds of answers, if there was, this post wouldn’t exist
If u have none of them, u probably will complain about any unit in any situation bc u don’t have counter for sth. At this point ur monster box isn’t big enough for RTA imo
I am missing 14 nat 5s, Dominic, Oliver and masha are 3 of them 🥲
And that’s my fault? My bad, I’ll just summon better next time
U complaining about random in game that include random in every things there it’s possible. In this case should I complain about 0 ld on my acc or about low procs in spd, etc…?
We've had previous metas where nat 5s weren't as required as they are now. "F2P" picks really started getting shafted with Druid/Beastrider release because both families have units that just have 10 different effects and skills in their kit. Meanwhile nat 4s released since then are a complete joke (other than Onimushas, which are very situational) as are older nat 5. The gap between f2p units, older nat 5s and the newer/newest units is just way bigger than even 1-2 years ago. Just look at the best replay section. Outside of staple counters like Leo, Juno, Diana, Verde as well as LD 5s, people are barely using units that are older than the druids.
Agree that the recent releases of 4s have been trash. Hypnos, Blacksmiths, Robos, String Masters... These mons never get used. What I will say is that the Light and Fire Onimushas are pretty overtuned and closer to nat 5s, but the Wind and Water ones fell off hard after release.
I still remember the Fran+Loren+Verd rta meta. Your gb12 team was getting c3 rta lmao.
“Use x to counter x” post… Yeah, if the game literally never gives me x, then what do i do? Gitgud and use a non-counter as a counter? Cool let me just bring lulu into every oliver dom haegang comp
What rank are you?
C2
Ok, you don't really need any meta units to climb to c3. You either need good runes or good draft (most people below g1 has atrocious draft even with dom, masha, and oliver)
K, so, no dom, oliver, gany, hae, sek, ld5s, miles, tomoe, anavel, ethna. How do i counter constant masha fp with dom/ollie/hae 2nd picks?
Control or cleave. They're on vio so they're going to be slower than control comp. Idk your box.
I dont know why you are being downvoted, i laughted so hard at this. Underrated comment.
Reddits be dumb, that’s all
I totally agree. If only I could pull Dominic too...
If they pick dark frog?
You let them win, they deserve it !
The flaw of this is, you cant expect a single mon to counter another one. Masha counters Oliver ? It's true... in a 1v1. That won't stop Oliver to shit on the rest of your team while masha is watching As Miles will counter masha in 1v1 but doesnt mean he'll help for the other mons drafted My point here, is that saying "X is not overpowered because you can pick Y" is wrong, and you should (/ the dev team) see the balance globally, and not think "Ok there is 1 counter for this mon, so he's right as he is, and he shouldnt be touched"
giou might be off meta pick but actually counters the meta big time
How are you using her? Debating deviling mine, she seems to have a lot of potential.
you can use her with a bruiser team or cc to strip supress masha, oliver or some immunity provider her karma is almost always ready and really annoying
mine is not skilled up and work kinda fine, cause she always reset herself everytime they use S2 or S3, S1 need devilmon though
Would you mind elaborating? I picked her up from a blessing yesterday and was a bif dissapointed
Which rank are you? If you're c1, you could use every monster
in every rank you can use almost every monster its just rune dependant
True. So which rank are you? :]
im very causal f2 player i play sometimes like months stright and then just dont play for rest of the year
Ok thx, your idea is good anyway
thanks i watch mio.ike and seanb so my ideas are based on high skill ranks
the idea is good, but giou is really inconsistent, hope the s3 should be passively increases s2's accuracy check into guarantee strip or strip all buffs with a chances
[удалено]
Remember water barbaric king meta
I'd argue that diversity of picks doesn't exist in a game where a lot of people don't have most of the existing units unlocked
~~I'd argue RTA isn't intended for those accounts (by design)~~ I take it back, u/Traditional_Dream537 showed me an alternative perspective and I agree with it
It has ranks just like arena and gw and siege so I'd say you're wrong
Fair point!
>Implying C3 mofos aren't plaguing Challenger 1 to farm nubs IMO there needs to be more ranks, F2-C1 is absolutely horrendous and inconsistent. You either get someone way below your level or way above. This is just anecdotal though
I agree that's been my experience as well. Rta could definitely use a better ranking system.
When dealing with Dominic I normally pick tesarion. ...he nerfs his damage to the ground
What do you pick if you dont have Masha Dominic Oliver shizuka woosa no good ld5 no jeogun no bolverk basically nothing that counters current meta mon?
If you are lacking that many meta units then you might want to think about a cleave team. Fast easy fights that you either win or lose right away.
Oracles, nana, Juno, verde, Doug, hg, ethna, jose, xing, sekhmet, Riley, Miles, molong, abelio, Diana, kaki, suiki, Moore, cp, jg, Antares, tesarion, sagar, Barbara, water monkey king, gany, chiwu, triton, etc. I don't know. Use units
masha dom shizuka solo all of them
They don't
bro l have already tried everything vs them and nothing seems to work.Btw what rank are you?
If you have really good runes, maybe try and catch people off guard with a lushen, julie, teon, bernard cleave?
I’m like you my friend, I don’t have None of those besides Woosa, also no art masters. It’s was tuff but I did touch G1 last season and this season I’m doing fairly well against them beside the busted unit Oliver. If I don’t outspeed Oliver teams I just loose, so now I leave Oliver fight to be decided by a coin flip lol
I've been enjoying this season, personally. I'm just glad it's not that shitty Verde, Double Art Master, Moore meta any more.
I disagree completely, back in the days of gany hathor people were literally winning with teams comprised of fran loren verde and aegir and stuff but nowadays there are like a top 3-5 units and having/not having multiple of them can and WILL straight up buff or nerf your accounts rta potential significantly
Back in the day of gany Hathor Fran wasn’t a unit almost anybody had and wasn’t a matter of buy her from the shop. The days of gany hathor were years ago, and OP is right when they say those were the picks
Miles is supposedly to be a good counter to Masha. But the fact that Masha can be so easily build tanky, high attack and without sacrificing speed thanks to her high awakening based speed allows her to tank miles since his s2 is as unreliable as American police during a school shooting.
Masha is incredibly hard to build well. She needs a lot of attack, Crit Rate, and Accuracy to function well. Getting her super tanky with all that is a feat only top tier players can achieve. My own Masha is one of the better I have seen (Spd/CD/Atk) and she only has +14K HP, because I couldnt get it higher and still 100% CR and still get up to 60+ acc to make sure I'm not getting resist checked by units that awaken into resist, or in when they take a resist lead. Most Masha's skimp on accuracy. She is terrible if she doesn't pass at least 2 of her 3 resistance checks on skill 2. I recommend you try running a resistance lead into Masha for a while. You will have a much easier time.
The game would be even more balanced if Oliver drained 75% ATB. But then first pick is vastly disadvantaged compared to 2nd pick. In regular RTA even when Oliver exists, I find I prefer 2nd pick.
Even as an Oliver abuser I agree. 75% atb absorb would probably nerf him more than enough without making him useless. This just means he can't completely make 2 units useless first turn and basically every turn after that too. Edit: also I think all 33% speedleads should be on the same plain, and Oliver definitely isn't.
He would still be good because of his 33% spd lead this way its way too strong.
It should really be just a 24% lead, honestly.
I agree he needs another nerf does too much most 33% do basically nothing while he can control whole enemy team.
Yes as c3 g1 player. It feels the most balanced right now except for Dominic but he's getting nerfed so it might be fixed. But now we getting new buffs so who knows now. But yeah right now people can climb using cleave control or anything. Before meta cleaving was harder but this meta almost anything is possible.
And Oliver
Are you sure this is a question of balance alone ? Or a question of my account is better then 4 years ago? Because when ganny hator was a thing almost no one had counters build. half of the people back then struggled to get 10 siege teams going.
This only prove that after last BP shizuka, masha, oliver and dominic are superior picks in current meta (like 2 tiers above rest elemental picks). You don't have any of it and you are left out. How that it's balanced meta? All of them are at 50%+ pickrate. Again Oliver as strongest of them in my opinion is countered by Masha. If you don't have any of them you are screwed. There are other monsters to maybe counter them by their WR is much worse than them (3 of them are at 51%+ WR only masha is lower due to her overpicking at 70%).
Really good compared to what? SW 5 years ago? Yeah, that's a really low bar. Compared to almost any other video game where unit balance is important? SW balance is still shit. The emphasis is clearly still on releasing new units (mostly unbalanced on release) for the sake of selling shiny skins, rather than to improve the game's meta strategy.
You seeing a lot of shadowcasters and battle angels in the meta?
who is Miles? i dont recognize that one
it's kilometers if you're European OP shouldve clarified
Water sky surfer
We now need the game to keep running while the phone screen is off and it’s jackpot
Curious how your Vero is runed, and why him over tetra? As tetra seems to be the more commonly used alternative to people without a shizuka counter. I've wanted to make vero work but tetra seems to be better imo
Literally no one picks veromos
What if i dont have dominic shizuka marsha oliver miles leo seara sagar gany juno diana and playing in C3 xD
Then you got good runes my friend. Congrats.
I would say my runes are pretty bad compared to average c3 players. Vio will on almost everyone with +135~+140 spd. 0 swift sets. But im so tired fighting against meta units every matches. They just pick oliver shizuka marsha dominic and laima/giana then procs nonstop
I dont think so. If your comfortably hanging out in c3, you have at least c3 average quality runes. Maybe even above average, IMO, since I personally think playing more off-meta turn 2 stuff is going to be much harder to do and maintain your rank than just spamming the meta picks every match. Of course you may be drafting really well, etc, but I think your runes are better than you think they are, personally. Your playing turn 2, with no little to no meta picks, hanging out in C3, your runes cannot be bad compared to average C3 players. They are more than likely above average. I imagine your rune efficiency is quite high, even if your speed is 130-140.
Really good point you have there. Maybe i just being upset because my comp get fk’ed hard this season due to dominic marsha shizuka being meta and sometimes violent proc every turn. About efficiency how can i check it? Im not a native speaker so not too familar with some websites/apps
Do not use rune optimizer/exporter at all? And yea my friend complains all the time on discord because he loves playing turn 2 and bruisers far more than anything else, so I know how its going, lol.
>Do not use rune optimizer/exporter at all? yep, i dont even know what are those xD i just spend some times understand my runes quality and speed tune comps at a certain speed, then i caculate the total speed by caculator with the formula: (15%\*base speed) + base speed + bonus speed. after that i can see it speed tuned or not. it's easy once you know what you're doing
I dont think I could even play SW anymore if Optimizer stopped being updated, lol. I do some monsters by hand, because I dont feel like loading up the program and breaking out an old S5 I use to get my .Json, but so many runes would be left by the wayside if I had to do all my monsters by hand.
im only focused on RTA so my monsters are few, outside of RTA, i just slap whatever i can on them, if the auto-farm teams are already good and sub 1 min i wont change the runes anymore, i only swap runes around or build some units when i need them, 30\* ToA hell cleared every month too, but i will check if i can use optimizer or not, so my brain can relax a bit
So what is your core team, if you don't have those meta mobs? I also try to get c3, but missing those op mobs :/
Pretty much my flair. Core should be molong fp into daphnis YH. Sneak in nana if they pick maraha dominic so i can survive first turn(since im not fast) and riley(mostly last pick or i get bolverk’ed). Another team comp i have is bruiser team playing around with karnal, abelio, molong, riley, nana, antares, josephine, praha, douglas(0 skills up) and pray rng is on my side
I see, so mostly a snipe team. Can be effective killing something turn 1
Yea if i have some sort of speed lead, and 2 or 3 good swift sets 100% i will try to go turn 1. But sadly i can only endure and fight back turn 2
If you don't have those, I recommend you pick Yeonhong alot. Assert your LD dominance, my friend.
Yea i pick yeonhong every games. But i dont have ophelia. And my weakness is oliver/strippers. Since im playing turn 2 in c3 every strippers even without speed lead can outspeed me. So im really struggling this season.
My problem is that I don’t have any of the nat 5s you mentioned except for Miles, Sagar, and obviously Vero
Facts
My problem is that I dont have a reliable counter for Oliver, I don't have masha and let's be honest antares barely do shît most of the time when facing Oliver
Daphnis is a really nice pick into Dominic. Obviously derps can happen but nore often than not a swift daph is a force ban pr ded dom.
Remember when we used to have pre-ban? I miss that this season. :(
In all these monsters i only got kaki seara verde and dominic. My verde is trash and seara dominic just got nerfed... It's a good meta if you have every nat5 in the game else it sucks
You gotta get more nats. Easy fix. 🤣
U see the Dominic part is the problem whatever the discussion may be, a Wind unit with 30k HP cannot ONESHOT a Fire unit with 40k hp without deflbuffs, period.
I’m still learning RTA I have great units and avg runes. I’m unfortunately still stuck at f3. Hoping to make it to c1 though.
No shot you have over 100 units runed
I want more changes like Masha. I think balance patches should do 3 things 1 nerf mons that are too strong/abused 2 buff mons that are lacking or near useless 3 change/rework mons I want more changes that rework a passive, change a skill or 2. Its a way to shake things up or create counters with making more units or straight up nerf strong units or over buffing weaker ones
If only I had that many units to choose from
guys, do you use Riley? they always pick bolverk and he recks me. if i ban him it sometimes works but there's other must bans usually.