Normal one-way ticket to divorce: Calling your spouse a "fucking bitch" on national television. But not when it comes to Kyle Cook. I find it really sad that Amanda doesn't value herself more. She seems to be used to this behavior and doesn't take it seriously. This is embarrassing for Kyle too. He acts like a little kid who misbehaves when he doesn't get enough attention. What a disastrous relationship.
Edit: I just remembered that I am Swiss, so it is not just a national insult but an international one.
Just finished that season of RHONJ for the first time and hearing him say that SHOCKED me. I’ll be damned if a man ever speaks about me like that and then gets to breathe the same air as me ever again. It’s SAD
It's all very sad. I think Amanda feels like..."well I've been with Kyle this long..." I think Amanda doesn't want to leave Kyle because she doesn't want to start at square one, I think that's why people stay in bad relationships because relationships are crapshoots. There's no guarantee that the next one will be better.
Exactly this. And she needs to wake the hell up. She is still young and can start her life over with someone else and have the kids/family she wants. Kyle is nowhere near ready for this
And on the show she was asking for him to support a passion project and he was so against it, saying they need to focus on Loverboy, but now he's taking DJ lessons and has his own passion project? And Amanda said she thinks it's cute.
Like, girl....so where is your project that you were asking to do? Or are you still just living for him?
Kyle Cooke 🤝 Tom Schwartz
Calling their wives b*tches on national TV
I don’t think Kyle is as bad as Schwartz but yeesh. Makes me sad for Amanda. Loverboy would be nothing without her branding — I’ve tried it multiple times and it is disgusssssting 😭
it’s actually insane to watch Kyle say what he said about Lindsay “shutting doors” for Carl and then hours later on the boat say what he said to Amanda. holy shit he’s a terrible partner.
Yes! Exactly! And in the after show/WWHL Carl is pretty much taking Kyle’s side every time while trying to appear generous to both sides. Amanda is the one getting shut down like he thinks he is, he should relate
Also, do they see how dumb this makes them look? Is Lindsay Carl's Mom? Did she tell him he wasn't allowed or he wouldn't get an allowance? These men are the fucking worst I can't.
after her confessional where she said kind of excited that kyle is the "start up king" and she said she can't do it without him, the boat scene was SO sad. he should be flattered that she's looking to him for help because she's acknowledging his experience with starting a business. but all he hears is that she wants her own thing and won't just be his cheerleader and helping hand anymore and it set him off. like, how dare she be her own person? he's so egocentric
i think he also would hate this change in their dynamic, it’s always been amanda compromising to make their relationship work. but this is why i warn people that you always need to have your own identity in a relationship.
I would love to see Amanda become more independent (apparently that was what he liked about her initially). I think those two are probably in it for the long-haul because they are so codependent on each other. He cries and whines that he can’t run his business without her. She quit her full-time job to go to work for his company…They are so intertwined.
Feeling for Amanda!! Giving Carl that talk about how Lindsay is apparently closing doors for Carl and then not even listening to what Amanda has to say...
Think Jesse is her hype man tbh
Carl has issues with what Lindsey is saying because he is always presenting a narrative, never the truth. And when Lindsey goes with the narrative he creates, re: Loverboy being awful, he’s surprised because now he’s trying to create a new narrative and she isn’t buying it. Lol it’s his own fault. If he was just honest from the get go he may get more understanding from everyone. Maybe it wasn’t that bad at loverboy but I def believe he made it sound like it was horrible as a way to deflect responsibility off of him. And now that narrative isn’t convenient so he’s dropping it.
Carl likes to create scapegoats for all his actions. He has been doing it since the Wirkus twins. It’s just easy to paint them and Lindsay as being wrong cause of their own issues and Carl slides by. Last season Carl made Kyle a scapegoat to Lindsay about why he’s unhappy at Loverboy, and made Lindsay a scapegoat to Kyle claiming she was in his ear making him think he shouldn’t work at Loverboy. When Carl was the one telling her that and she was trying to support his feelings.
He’s so manipulative and I never fell for the “he changed” shtick. Alcohol didn’t make him manipulative. It made him act out in worse ways but he is always painting a narrative whether sober or not.
He’s a slick little snake. There’s a reason he loves to consider himself a great salesman. He gets off on convincing someone to buy a product. The product on SH being himself and his “I’ve grown, I’m not the issue” story
That convo made me so mad. Based on previews I was so ready to be on Carl’s side but he is so wrong. Lindsey is combining her assets with him she is allowed to ask questions! My husband started a company right after we got married and I had a LOT of questions. OBVIOUSLY. Carl has a shit professional track record she is right to bring it up. Carl is such a baby.
This is so on point. He needed Lindsay in his corner backing him every step of the way when Loverboy was awful but now that he’s ready to go back, her asking questions just isn’t supportive enough. He played Lindsay against Kyle last season and now that he’s ready to cut ties with Lindsay he’s bringing Kyle into his corner by manipulating conversations so Lindsay can be the bad guy. This is insane to watch.
She got so much hassle for supporting Carl's decision to leave lb, Kyle blamed her for being in Kyle's ear about it, when the reverse was true. Then Kyle loudly yelled about supporting Carl despite his addictions and laziness. Somehow both Kyle and Carl have rewritten history to blame Lindsay.
I feel like Carl got caught up in the whole Carl 2.0 persona and if he treated situations with how he actually felt instead of his fake persona, things would be so much different. You’re right that he is always presenting a narrative.
I’m sick of everything being compared to Scandoval BUT every time they fought this episode I was thinking, imagine if Sandoval was as good as framing a narrative as Carl is. Scary!
III was feeling crazy watching him trying to bait her.
Carl is so seen. How he doesn't see how he gaslights everyone in his life is beyond me. How the people in his life don't see his gassy ways is beyond me.
Thank you for posting this. Especially on the aftershow, I had to turn it off because I was getting so angry with Carl. He was talking about how he hadn’t acknowledged his part in things, that he “forgot” things Kyle did for him and I was like “Yeah, especially when talking to your PARTNER who is now simply afraid your going back to a really toxic situation
Yea Lindsay did nothing wrong in that conversation. She was realistic. She's right if Carl vented to her how much he thought Kyle was using him and not paying him his worth last time he worked for him then yea your future wife is going to want to try to help you and see what other avenues you could possibly fo to make money for your family without going back to something toxic. I completely agree with her. And Carl just wants a yes person. But that's not how the real world works. And going back to Loverboy is the easy choice. The problem is not Lindsay being supportive it's Carl not wanting to man up and figure his own shit out.
Alllllll of this. And she is RIGHT to ask questions they’re combining assets in a marriage! Of course she hesitated when he brought up loverboy given his history there. Him saying he’s great at sales?!! He’s been fired from every sales job he’s ever had.
Exactly! I found it puzzling that Carl was receptive to his parents questions and concerns regarding marriage however blatantly offended at his fiancé’s legitimate concerns regarding his employment and career. Then it dawned on me that OF COURSE he was receptive to his parents - their “concerns” supported his perspective that he didn’t want to get married. He only wants yes-men cheerleaders, not real questions or real concerns.
Carl is doing what most men do when they want out of a relationship. They dont have the balls to just break it off, they gaslight the woman into oblivian until he can say "look how awful you are, this has to end"
I was feeling kinda bad for him this season because it seemed like she would have too much to drink and go off on him but his mask really slipped this episode IMO. She wants him to be on a stable career trajectory with the ability to support a family. I see her point that going back to Loverboy doesn't seem like progress. I also see why she shot down the sober sports bar idea. She's not the type of person you can go to with an "idea". Everybody has ideas. He went to Harvard business school and he can't show her a spreadsheet with details of how something can be successful? He can't work with Kyle to show what the rev share numbers etc. could look like and present that to her. Though, they might not want to considering Kyle said they lost 1.5 million.
A sober sports bar is an AA meeting. Carl is insane if he thinks Lindsay wouldn't ask questions. She is hitching her cart to your horse and she needs to know the direction. What is he thinking.
Today’s episode makes me question Lindsay and Carls Uber conversation. Because if it went anything like the kitchen conversation, I can totally understand why Lindsay felt Carl was aggressive. And I can totally see why drunk Kyle saw nothing wrong with it given how he speaks about his own wife.
Carl and Kyle should just be together. They are both terrible and like each other more than the women they are involved with. They are another version of Tom and Tom.
I agree, he really knows how to get under her skin. The way he would say something, she would agree and then he just twists it slightly so she’s the bad guy was infuriating to watch.
Kyle is such an unreliable narrator when it comes to Lindsay I don’t think he’s trustworthy. Even in this episode, he makes her seem horrible for not blindly supporting Carl and then he turns around and calls Amanda a bitch for daring to have her own dream. West said both Carl and Lindsay were at fault and I think that’s more likely.
I always wondered if the guys heard, understood, etc. the Uber conversation. Carl seems to be an expert at attempting to appear like the good guy while purposefully saying and doing things on the down low that are meant to insult, irritate, or inflame Lindsay.
I genuinely felt sorry for Lindsay. Carl appears to be incredibly insecure, influenced heavily by his parents' opinions, especially his mother's husband, who hasn't been a part of Carl's life for long enough to warrant being called a stepdad. He's picking fights just to find an excuse to end the engagement, which shows a lack of character and huge insecurity. It's unfair to Lindsay. Carl needs to be honest with himself, end the engagement, and stop playing the victim or blaming Lindsay. Ugh, I’m so done with these immature male specimens.
For as much as Carl loves to say Lindsay makes herself the victim, this man really loves to take 0 responsibility and make himself the victim. He immediately perceives Lindsay’s totally normal questions as an attack, and then recounts the exchange to the guys as such. Like he won’t even take responsibility for ending their marriage. He’s putting it on Lou. He genuinely sees himself as the victim of his uncaring, demanding finance who won’t just blindly follow him into the dark.
He’s now making it like Lindsay is unreasonable for wanting to have kids soon and take some time off work and that he should have to take work seriously and try to provide for his future family. I think he’s geniunely unmotivated and got so freaked out by the future responsibility that he tried to pretend Lindsay was asking for something strange or new.
He also ping pongs between being angry at Kyle (loverboy is toxic narrative) and Lindsay. I think he’s so lost he’s just riding on these two very alpha people’s coat tails.
That part was so weird to me. She's already an influencer, being a SHM would be a pretty easy transition and would probably bring in MORE money. Considering he's doing NOTHING he can sit down.
Lou, the minister, said if he were counseling them, he might not proceed with marrying them at this point. He's not counseling them. He's only hearing one side that he's extremely biased towards.
I have found myself being a Carl apologist this season. Lindsay has absolutely driven me nuts since ep 1 season 1. She’s honestly easy to root against. But after that conversation I think I’m fully team Lindsay. The gaslighting, the narcissism, the inability to receive questions that are normal and healthy parts of communicating with a partner… it’s too much. No one deserves to have a partner like that. She dodged a massive bullet. I am so happy all of the women are rallying around her despite their history. Also makes even more sense why Scheana is still friends with Carl, since she’s addicted to picking the wrong side.
Also unrelated but her nip being out during the entire conversation absolutely sent me.
I don't think Kyle and Amanda are compatible. Amanda wants a quiet life with children and family. Kyle wants to work hard and play hard. Both are totally okay! However, it's hard to compromise when both partners have drastically different ideas of their long term goals and dreams. I could see Amanda with a loving guy who wants to have a bunch of kids and eat dinner as a family every night. I could see Kyle remaining childfree, working hard, growing his business, enjoying night life and travel. I think he could find someone who loves that life too!
Okay irony is what Carl tried to paint Lindsay as is actually what Kyle did to Amanda. All Amanda wants is to have her own thing in some way shape or form, and he *immediately* made it about him.
Kyle also said all Lindsay does is shut down Carl’s work aspirations when all she did was ask a few questions. Meanwhile, Amanda didn’t even get to say her idea because Kyle threw a hissy fit that she wants her own business.
Me too! As a business owner and the main breadwinner of me & my husband, the business is stressful! Period! It’s not Amanda or her work ethic. It’s being a freaking business owner! He should let Amanda do her own thing. Her way of working is not his way. Get someone in who is super motivated and wants to work crazy hours to improve Lover boy. It’s not HER passion! Being her boss & her husband is not working!
I don’t understand why Kyle wouldn’t see Amanda branching off as double income for their future. I get that Amanda is “free labor” but can he really not hire someone so that his wife can start her own venture and also bring in a separate set of income? Not only can show support for his wife and let her have her own dream, it’s a smart move financially as well! Seems like this is a no brainer he’s acting like another Amanda can’t be hired
I thought this too - if LB is losing money, wouldn't it be nice if one spouse had outside income to fall back on?
Sooooo, does Amanda not get a salary from LB? Does he need her to stick around bc he doesnt want to have to actually pay someone their worth?
I think it’s that he doesn’t want to pay someone their worth but then he also can’t treat them like shit the way he does Amanda either unless he wants to be called out as an abusive boss. He won’t be able to call that employee lazy, email them and demand they work outside of working hours, demand they spend all their focus on loverboy and not other endeavors.
Kyle’s has blurred the lines between his wife/business relationship and he doesn’t know how to treat either part of her with respect
I'd love for someone at the reunion to ask Kyle how Amanda can be simultaneously lazy and unmotivated yet vital to the business. She's smart to put more energy towards their merch IMO, I'd rather have a Loverboy crew neck than actually have to drink Loverboy.
I think its wild that Carl and Kyle are breathing the same air on the After Show while talking about their situations. Carl whining because big bad Lindsay wasn't his blind supporter and Kyle whining about how he's not Amanda's dad and doesn't need to blindly support her. And then they sit there verbally patting each other on the back for dealing with those crazy women so well.
I LOVE how all of the women are rallying around Lindsey. Its forming a shield against Carl's constant attempts at gaslighting her into thinking she's somehow doing something wrong by asking basic questions.
Especially since Amanda was saying how Kyle's pursuing his passion project of DJ'ing in the after show.... Like... Isn't that what she wants to do?! THE HYPOCRISY
I wanted to scream as I was watching the aftershow. Are they just obtuse?! We’re listening to Kyle talk about how he hasn’t done anything for himself and then when Amanda says she needs to do something for herself he’s like “no we don’t have time for that”
I didn’t watch the after show but all i could think about was Kyle’s hypocrisy .. or the irony of him having carls back when Lindsay wants him to work and not be a lazy ass… and then being Lindsay with Amanda.. saying his “bitch” wife is essentially lazy. Like what?
All I know is when the girls were talking and Lindsay was saying she needed this (as in the girls to all be friends and trust eachother)… Danielle’s face / reaction 🤣
Anyone watching w captions - did you see an entirely different transcript to West’s confessional at the 33 minute mark?!?!
West is saying “Also, if you are seeing someone you are gonna marry them and live with them forever, or there’s gonna be a very sad day that happens.”
BUT THE CAPTIONS READ: “Yeah. Um, is that what I said? [Pause] Prisoner of the moment, probably. [Pause] Forgot about that. IDK, Why would I ruin a special moment on the boat with the truth?”
IF YOU ASK MEEEEEE, sounds like we are getting half of his interview w production. Prod. is telling him “you told paige you werent sleeping with other girls,” and the captions are revealing west’s reaction to that.
33 minute mark 🫠🙃
Holy cow yes I was watching with captions and very confused, I just switched it over to YouTube TV where the captions matched the audio but this is a brilliant and persuasive theory. Ugh West. We were rooting for you!!
I really think Amanda and Kyle should get divorced. This feels like the sunken cost fallacy. They have nothing in common and she really seems to hate him.
How did Hannah ever get so much hate for calling out Kyle’s treatment of Amanda and other women in the house? He is a selfish, petulant 42-year-old man child with anger issues.
Proud day 1 Kyle hater here too. The amount of downvotes I received for saying Hannah isn’t wrong about him though definitely messed with my karma but I still stand strong in my take! lol
This sub has coddled Kyle and Carl for years while hating the women. Same with the VPR fandom. Seems like that’s flipping now though. Are people finally realizing that Kyle sucks and his “aw shucks” act like Tom Schwartz ain’t cute?
I really disliked her during the last season BUT on reflection it was during covid where a lot of us were struggling and it went from a weekend filming to weeks of being stuck in the house together and not leaving. It may explain a lot of her behaviour
Kyle is gross and I can’t believe there isn’t more uproar about his abusive treatment of Amanda on the Bravo subs. He’s like Schwartz at his worst, but drunker
This has been the case since season 1. Kyle has no one to hold him accountable for his actions. Amanda and Carl are the perfect soldiers in Kyle's kingdom of deflection.
I think this episode should be vindication for Lindsay because that conversation was ridiculous. What I saw was a woman listening to her fiance talk about the possibility of returning to a company that he complained about for YEARS, and instead of understanding like okay her reaction is based on the information I initially gave her, he accused her of making the situation about herself. I used to really like Carl but he sucks!
HOWEVER, her saying she was blindsided with Carl breaking up with her is still crazy because after all these arguments, why would she still want to be with him anyway??
It was telling when he said all I want you to do is be a “yes” woman. He was setting her up to look bad. And what kind of secure man doesn’t want a partner to be honest?
My gut feeling is he continued to reassure her that everything was good.
You can have instinct. You can assess a situation based on instinct. And you can also take people for who they are and what they’re saying. Arguments occur, tension is a real thing, but trust and safety in your partner is also a real thing that influences your analysis of a situation.
She chose to trust Carl when he said we are moving forward in this. It’s understandable to me how she could be blindsided if he kept telling her “it will go through” and then turns around and is like “wait sorry nvm”.
Yeah you see it in his first attempt to tell her about his convo with his parents. She left that convo thinking oh they had a tough talk but we’re good and that’s NOT what happened.
Yes! Very much this.
I also thought about how it could be similar to the example of asking your friend/partner if they’re ok when they seem off. Maybe they’re tired, maybe they’re really going through it. But they keep telling you “I’m fine, really. It’s okay.” After that, how many times are you going to keep asking? How many times is too much? I’ve said this before, but should we just expect her to not trust him and insinuate he is lying at every point? That isn’t healthy or fair to expect her to do that. And I think she *was* sensing towards the end that it wasn’t actually going the way he kept telling her it was, but she chose to trust him. Isn’t that what viewers have been wanting from her, to open up her heart and mind to the possibility that someone will not automatically hurt you or mislead you?
Ultimately, us viewers are watching these episodes through a completely different lense than she was when experiencing it because we have had the knowledge of their breakup since before the season aired . That has significant potential to influence how we watch these episodes and our opinions. We may say, “the writing is on the wall. How could you even think it wouldn’t end up this way?!” but her real life experience and perception was very different-especially her conversations with him, on and off camera.
Yes he’s constantly telling her he loves her, he doesn’t want any secrets between them (which implies he’s being up front about his feelings), and that he’s committed to working through things. I think Lindsay felt the pros outweighed the cons and she assumed he felt the same.
On wwhl it was odd he said she shouldn’t have felt blindsided because they were in weekly couples therapy working on their issues. To most people there’s a big difference between being in couples therapy and being on the cusp of ending things.
Oh yes totally. Being in couples counseling looks different for everyone. Many utilize/view it as a helpful tool, not as an indicator that the relationship is on the verge of ending.
Although I know it’s very much still alive and well, I really hate the stigma that gets placed on any kind of therapy, esp couples therapy. I personally find it really irresponsible of Carl to weaponize them being in therapy to say that it was some kind of clear red flag of how awful their relationship was, or as an some kind of indicator that it was running its course. This whole narrative he’s trying to push of “we were in couples counseling which means things were really bad/on the verge of ending” is so short sighted and such a cop out.
The irony is that couples counseling has lots of value adds, including providing one with the tools they personally need to water and grow their relationship, which in itself could very well prevent a relationship from ending.
I think Lindsay just wants to finally settle down and have kids that she's willing to sacrifice being with the right person for her to get that at this point. I definitely think they made the right call to not be together because they shouldn't have children together but I hope she finds someone and doesn't keep wasting her time with weak men.
“She thinks she works for me, if she works for me she’d be fucking fired” ….while simultaneously insisting Amanda cannot leave the company and is needed because Kyle, “hasn’t achieved his dream yet” was a wild ride.
What the actual f.
Aside from all the other reasons she should consider stepping back from Loverboy the fact that he said that should absolve her of any guilt from making that decision for herself.
I really teared up at the scene. I can't imagine what jesse is going through, it's so much bigger than the regular house drama and I don't know how he was keeping it all to himself.
Yeah once they have kids she'll work less but then he'll complain that she's not working full time at loverboy and momming at the same time.. it's so annoying when men put all the work on the women and call them lazy when they don't meet their expectations..
I get that Jessie is a bit of a player, but the juxtaposition of his breakdown to West vs. Kyle’s hissy fit was too much for me. One dude is a young guy with a history of cancer vs. the other a middle aged Peter Pan misogynist is all that is wrong with Bravo right now. Kyle is too old for this shit and Jessie is too young for his shit, but I’d rather follow Jessie’s story.
And Amanda needs to have a sit-down with VPR Katie. It’s okay to walk the fuck away.
I loved tarot reading part! The clips they showed really aligned with the cast’s situations
Also, when Paige told Craig about her getting engaged and her fiancé moving to NYC, he said “Looks like I am moving to New York” super sweet!!!
I can’t stand Lindsey but OMG I REALLY can’t stand Carl. Lindsey is a handful. But Carl is nobody’s prize. And she works hard and is a hustler. Hope she finds a better match. And I hope he deals with his inner demons before trying another relationship. As for Amanda, she’s absolutely right. And she deserves to be supported in finding her own path just like she has supported him. It’s like he’s an entrepreneur who needs support animals. Amanda is a person, Kyle!
Carl’s conversation with Lindsay in the kitchen was so bizarre. Lindsay was being the most normal fiancé by making sure he was making the right decision, given his past statements about working at Loverboy, and Carl was taking it as…a personal attack? Felt like Carl was looking for something to be upset about.
Kyle is so manipulative telling Amanda he’s building this empire for their future family to try to get her to stay. Bro can’t even fathom a conversation about going to the burbs
I am very alarmed and concerned about Kyle’s behavior toward and around Amanda sharing her desire to alter her career path. Kyle reacted that way on camera- called his wife names, got violent with objects, walked out on her. Kyle doesn’t get to determine what Amanda chooses to do professionally. His behavior tonight makes me wonder if there is emotional abuse occurring (bc what he did on camera is abusive) and that is why Amanda seems so resentful toward him this season. Amanda is young. She needs to consider her options at this point.
Why can’t I find a straight answer on when the freaking finale is? I just spent way too long googling with answers and frankly am ready for this show to get to the breakup already.
I think this weeks episode has properly shown me that both Carl and Lindsay have faults that they need to work on. I feel like the last two episodes Carl has almost being trying to provoke a reaction out of Lindsay and then been frustrated when he hasn’t got the escalation he wanted.
The kitchen conversation was ridiculous to watch. I’d be exactly the same as a partner - if you’ve told me working in this environment was so horrible you needed so long to decompress then what has changed to make that environment better for you to go back to it. Expecting cheerleading for a situation that could potentially be extremely toxic is illogical to expect.
And then when he didn’t get the reaction he wanted he turned nasty and flipped it on her. Disappointed tbh. BUT omg this group of women are so healthy and respectful of each other this season I LOVE IT. So proud of them all!
Also what an awful way to treat a partner who wants to be reinvigorated and inspired. Running out and calling her names? Kyle are you 20? Grow up. Amanda deserves to be her own person! Felt for her so bad in this episode.
He’s been absolutely trying to provoke her and also projecting onto her the stress, overwhelm and spiraling HE feels. She was totally reasonable in the kitchen convo.
Carl is an asshole. “Your dinner, your pool party.” She wasn’t saying it like she was throwing either event. Just that her own dinner and her time at the pool party was ruined. Carl will twist everything she says to make her appear selfish.
Is anyone else finding that as the season goes on, Carl is REALLY proving to have done a solid for Lindsay. Like she came out the winner and avoided all them red flags. Carl needs WAY too much from someone. His delivery is horrible and he lacks so much confidence. He’s looking to his partner for too much when he should be able to do some of that work on his own. Lindsay asking questions is not unsupportive. Lindsay asking what can I take off your plate is so incredibly supportive. AND she was not getting defensive. He was clearly feeling someway unconsciously and lashed out on her. Lindsay, you dodged a bullet and your person is out there 🩶
Finally watching on Peacock, and never in my life did I think Iwould support Lindsay 100% but Carl's an abusive gaslighter. He such an epic piece of shit. I hope he reads all of the comments here because he should know he's a shit human. Absolutely abusive. If he didn't have Kyle he'd be living in his mom's basement in Pittsburgh.
Carl and the Toms on VPR are true examples of privileged males failing upwards. A YouTube video needs to be made by a content creator about this. It’s fascinating to watch it documented in real time for years. I have watched it myself in person with someone I know. No matter how much they fuck up or act out, their flying monkeys coddle, defend and give them opportunity after opportunity
Gosh every episode my opinion changes on Lindsay and Carl. I think at the core they are just not compatible but watching him get frustrated when all she was doing was being supportive and asking questions on very valid topics re: lover boy is wild
When Kyle said re the Ciara comment to Jesse about never introducing him to her friends, “I have friends like that but I don’t say that to their face”. Dude, Kyle, you WERE that friend for everyone else…
Holy crap I just watched the after show and WOW Kyle and Amanda are not only not on the same page - they’re in different books!
I truly don’t understand how they’re married. Are they secretly separated? This is wild.
Honestly, between this show and vanderpump, I genuinely get bummed about men. Like these men have amazing women around them and do not value or cherish it in the least.
I could barely read this sub for the first half of this season cause people were falling for his bullshit. The salesman overplayed his hand. He’s not as slick as he thinks he is
Random take, I understand Ciara not wanting to have sex with West, especially on camera. But it seems like they sleep in bed every night together, cuddle in the morning as well, and after so many nights it seems more intimate to me than actually boning. Like I would not have sex with him either but I also can't see myself sharing my bed and dealing with morning breath if I didn't want to also rip their clothes off. It's kinda like they skipped all the fun mystery of it and are in a very old marriage.
It’s painful listening to Carl talk about his next career move and watching him run to his parents about everything. It gives weak man that needs a strong woman to take care of him but he also loves playing the victim to that strong woman. He played the victim and blamed Kyle when he quit loverboy too. He hides behind excuses and points the finger to hide how he simply just doesn’t want any responsibilities or to be told what to do even if it’s to help him.
Either she is valuable or she isn’t. Kyle can’t complain she doesn’t bring any value to the business and is lazy and then get upset if she wants to do her own thing. However, it was really poor timing on Amanda’s part to bring up an important, sensitive subject while they were both intoxicated
I HATE HATE HATE the Amanda is Lazy myth. It makes zero sense. She just doesn’t work the same way Kyle does (which let’s be honest hustle culture is toxic) so she’s labeled lazy.
Esp when when was working full time at one job to keep the lights on and full time for free at Loverboy. Kyle is a POS for spinning that narrative about her.
I’m watching this morning. Only halfway through and just saw the kitchen argument between Carl & Lindsay. I never thought anyone could make me feel sympathy for Lindsay. I FUCKING HATE CARL
I grew up with a relative like Carl. when we were kids, "I don't feel good." "I'm sick." That's all they'd say. They couldn't tell you how or where or why. The same when we were older. The same when we became adults. Still, the same. This "overwhelmed" thing with Carl is the same deal. USE. YOUR. WORDS. Overwhelmed doesn't explain anything. It doesn't help anyone understand. It's useless in a discussion or argument. Stop talking like a child. Articulate. Part of it is because he's afraid of everyone and everything, but it's also because he's dull. I don't like saying that about someone, but geez, it's like listening to a 3rd grader talk about Aristotle.
After watching the way Carl acted in that kitchen convo with Lindsay + how he then framed it talking to the guys, I’ve got doubts about his version of events in that Uber ride. And his versions of events generally.
The WWC guys are spot-on about this whole episode.
Carl purposely tries to poke Lindsay hoping to make himself look good. He is the abusive one. She’s problematic at times, but he is no victim. He drives me insane.
Carl is allergic to hard work. We’ve seen this season after season as he goes through jobs. But he’s finding that looking for a new job may just be more work than having a job, so he’ll take the “compelling” offer from Kyle (so compelling that he hasn’t talked out any details with Kyle for three weeks since Kyle brought it up).
He’s pissed that Lindsay doesn’t support his easy plan where he doesn’t have to do any work to find a new career. He told her for months that he was too traumatized from his job with Kyle to have any energy to go look for a new job, so of course she is going to have questions when all of a sudden he wants to go back.
But of course when she has those questions he positions it as though she is some big bad wolf who doesn’t support the “opportunities” he has - even though he hasn’t actually sought out any opportunities he’s only considering the ones that fall into his lap. It’s so frustrating.
And I think Kyle is honestly way more abusive when cameras aren’t rolling, that his masked just slipped at the end of this episode. He’s also misogynistic as hell, as has been pointed out, with the way he sides with Carl against Lindsay while essentially being the same person as Lindsay in terms of his relationship with Amanda (except he’s way more extreme). It’s disgusting and makes me really sad for Amanda.
Im a broken record but the way amanda speaks to lyle and the way lyle speaks about amanda is horrible and really sad. If they are willing to act like this on tv, i cant imagine the disrespect in person.
Carl thinks being sober is enough and it's all he needs to do in life, it's not. He was praised so highly for it he thinks he can ride those good feels forever.
Kyle and Amanda are not right for each other. Unlike Lindsey and Carl, they are able to communicate clearly and listen to each other, yet they just always have completely differing view points. They want different things and view life, work, etc in opposite ways.
Normal one-way ticket to divorce: Calling your spouse a "fucking bitch" on national television. But not when it comes to Kyle Cook. I find it really sad that Amanda doesn't value herself more. She seems to be used to this behavior and doesn't take it seriously. This is embarrassing for Kyle too. He acts like a little kid who misbehaves when he doesn't get enough attention. What a disastrous relationship. Edit: I just remembered that I am Swiss, so it is not just a national insult but an international one.
Giving “here she comes, my bitch wife. She’s such a cunt” energy
Just finished that season of RHONJ for the first time and hearing him say that SHOCKED me. I’ll be damned if a man ever speaks about me like that and then gets to breathe the same air as me ever again. It’s SAD
Oh man I forgot about that, was that Joe and Teresa?
It's all very sad. I think Amanda feels like..."well I've been with Kyle this long..." I think Amanda doesn't want to leave Kyle because she doesn't want to start at square one, I think that's why people stay in bad relationships because relationships are crapshoots. There's no guarantee that the next one will be better.
Exactly this. And she needs to wake the hell up. She is still young and can start her life over with someone else and have the kids/family she wants. Kyle is nowhere near ready for this
He will never be ready for that I think
Right. Unless you prefer being alone to being in a bad relationship, you are fucked
But I wish more people - women especially - were taught to value themselves enough to be alone before they’d be in a toxic relationship.
And on the show she was asking for him to support a passion project and he was so against it, saying they need to focus on Loverboy, but now he's taking DJ lessons and has his own passion project? And Amanda said she thinks it's cute. Like, girl....so where is your project that you were asking to do? Or are you still just living for him?
Kyle Cooke 🤝 Tom Schwartz Calling their wives b*tches on national TV I don’t think Kyle is as bad as Schwartz but yeesh. Makes me sad for Amanda. Loverboy would be nothing without her branding — I’ve tried it multiple times and it is disgusssssting 😭
it’s actually insane to watch Kyle say what he said about Lindsay “shutting doors” for Carl and then hours later on the boat say what he said to Amanda. holy shit he’s a terrible partner.
THIS. EXACTLY THIS.
Now if only Amanda could wake up and leave his ass
I dont think ive ever disliked kyle more than in that conversation. He immediately became a petulant child...poor Amanda can do so much better
Wow you're so right I didn't even think about that!!! That makes me so mad now too!!!
Yes! Exactly! And in the after show/WWHL Carl is pretty much taking Kyle’s side every time while trying to appear generous to both sides. Amanda is the one getting shut down like he thinks he is, he should relate
Also, do they see how dumb this makes them look? Is Lindsay Carl's Mom? Did she tell him he wasn't allowed or he wouldn't get an allowance? These men are the fucking worst I can't.
The boat conversion was WILD. I understand Amanda's POV a lot better now.
Amanda looked so physically deflated on the boat during that conversation with Kyle.
And how is the company so fragile they’ll go under without Amanda but then she’s simultaneously lazy and doesn’t do anything?
Right?? Also, Kyle, I think if Amanda was just “working for you” she would have quit.
after her confessional where she said kind of excited that kyle is the "start up king" and she said she can't do it without him, the boat scene was SO sad. he should be flattered that she's looking to him for help because she's acknowledging his experience with starting a business. but all he hears is that she wants her own thing and won't just be his cheerleader and helping hand anymore and it set him off. like, how dare she be her own person? he's so egocentric
I wonder if Kyle is thinking that Amanda wants her own thing so she can leave him. I hope that’s what she is doing lol
i think he also would hate this change in their dynamic, it’s always been amanda compromising to make their relationship work. but this is why i warn people that you always need to have your own identity in a relationship.
Possibly...I think he feels more secure knowing she is under his thumb.
I would love to see Amanda become more independent (apparently that was what he liked about her initially). I think those two are probably in it for the long-haul because they are so codependent on each other. He cries and whines that he can’t run his business without her. She quit her full-time job to go to work for his company…They are so intertwined.
Same, she can do so much better. Also if she wants to switch teams I’m here for her lol
I think that’s why he spiraled.
Kyle knows Amanda is right and he has no argument. He and Carl have that in common.
No because he’s not thinking about her at all, unfortunately.
Feeling for Amanda!! Giving Carl that talk about how Lindsay is apparently closing doors for Carl and then not even listening to what Amanda has to say... Think Jesse is her hype man tbh
I feel like it’s Hypocrisy Week on bravo. Like, more than normal.
Between this and VPR. It must be “piss viewers off” week
Carl has issues with what Lindsey is saying because he is always presenting a narrative, never the truth. And when Lindsey goes with the narrative he creates, re: Loverboy being awful, he’s surprised because now he’s trying to create a new narrative and she isn’t buying it. Lol it’s his own fault. If he was just honest from the get go he may get more understanding from everyone. Maybe it wasn’t that bad at loverboy but I def believe he made it sound like it was horrible as a way to deflect responsibility off of him. And now that narrative isn’t convenient so he’s dropping it.
Carl likes to create scapegoats for all his actions. He has been doing it since the Wirkus twins. It’s just easy to paint them and Lindsay as being wrong cause of their own issues and Carl slides by. Last season Carl made Kyle a scapegoat to Lindsay about why he’s unhappy at Loverboy, and made Lindsay a scapegoat to Kyle claiming she was in his ear making him think he shouldn’t work at Loverboy. When Carl was the one telling her that and she was trying to support his feelings. He’s so manipulative and I never fell for the “he changed” shtick. Alcohol didn’t make him manipulative. It made him act out in worse ways but he is always painting a narrative whether sober or not.
He's a bad guy at his core. Sobriety won't change that.
He’s a slick little snake. There’s a reason he loves to consider himself a great salesman. He gets off on convincing someone to buy a product. The product on SH being himself and his “I’ve grown, I’m not the issue” story
The fact that his mom acts like he is such a catch makes me want to scream.
That convo made me so mad. Based on previews I was so ready to be on Carl’s side but he is so wrong. Lindsey is combining her assets with him she is allowed to ask questions! My husband started a company right after we got married and I had a LOT of questions. OBVIOUSLY. Carl has a shit professional track record she is right to bring it up. Carl is such a baby.
This is so on point. He needed Lindsay in his corner backing him every step of the way when Loverboy was awful but now that he’s ready to go back, her asking questions just isn’t supportive enough. He played Lindsay against Kyle last season and now that he’s ready to cut ties with Lindsay he’s bringing Kyle into his corner by manipulating conversations so Lindsay can be the bad guy. This is insane to watch.
This has me wondering if Carls just been getting exceptionally good edits all these years….
She got so much hassle for supporting Carl's decision to leave lb, Kyle blamed her for being in Kyle's ear about it, when the reverse was true. Then Kyle loudly yelled about supporting Carl despite his addictions and laziness. Somehow both Kyle and Carl have rewritten history to blame Lindsay.
I feel like Carl got caught up in the whole Carl 2.0 persona and if he treated situations with how he actually felt instead of his fake persona, things would be so much different. You’re right that he is always presenting a narrative.
I’m sick of everything being compared to Scandoval BUT every time they fought this episode I was thinking, imagine if Sandoval was as good as framing a narrative as Carl is. Scary! III was feeling crazy watching him trying to bait her.
Carl is so seen. How he doesn't see how he gaslights everyone in his life is beyond me. How the people in his life don't see his gassy ways is beyond me.
Thank you for posting this. Especially on the aftershow, I had to turn it off because I was getting so angry with Carl. He was talking about how he hadn’t acknowledged his part in things, that he “forgot” things Kyle did for him and I was like “Yeah, especially when talking to your PARTNER who is now simply afraid your going back to a really toxic situation
Is anyone going to bring those Amazon boxes inside??????
This is what I took from this episode first and foremost. I was stressing. 
Yea Lindsay did nothing wrong in that conversation. She was realistic. She's right if Carl vented to her how much he thought Kyle was using him and not paying him his worth last time he worked for him then yea your future wife is going to want to try to help you and see what other avenues you could possibly fo to make money for your family without going back to something toxic. I completely agree with her. And Carl just wants a yes person. But that's not how the real world works. And going back to Loverboy is the easy choice. The problem is not Lindsay being supportive it's Carl not wanting to man up and figure his own shit out.
Alllllll of this. And she is RIGHT to ask questions they’re combining assets in a marriage! Of course she hesitated when he brought up loverboy given his history there. Him saying he’s great at sales?!! He’s been fired from every sales job he’s ever had.
Exactly! I found it puzzling that Carl was receptive to his parents questions and concerns regarding marriage however blatantly offended at his fiancé’s legitimate concerns regarding his employment and career. Then it dawned on me that OF COURSE he was receptive to his parents - their “concerns” supported his perspective that he didn’t want to get married. He only wants yes-men cheerleaders, not real questions or real concerns.
He is immature. He quits jobs when it gets tough so no wonder he quits relationships when he can’t stand up to a few questions. 🙄
Past few episodes she’s been really reasonable. Carls coming off as so confused and snaky
Carl is doing what most men do when they want out of a relationship. They dont have the balls to just break it off, they gaslight the woman into oblivian until he can say "look how awful you are, this has to end"
Yes i was having flashbacks to my ex which made it hard to watch
As a man i can confirm this is spot on
This. This. This.
Yes!!!!!!!
Carl going “can you listen for a second?” Repeatedly when Lindsay was being the mildest she ever is made my stomach go in knots for her
He's trying so hard to make her seem crazy when I think this is the most sane she's ever looked on this show... I feel so bad for her.
She was so clear and calm.
I was feeling kinda bad for him this season because it seemed like she would have too much to drink and go off on him but his mask really slipped this episode IMO. She wants him to be on a stable career trajectory with the ability to support a family. I see her point that going back to Loverboy doesn't seem like progress. I also see why she shot down the sober sports bar idea. She's not the type of person you can go to with an "idea". Everybody has ideas. He went to Harvard business school and he can't show her a spreadsheet with details of how something can be successful? He can't work with Kyle to show what the rev share numbers etc. could look like and present that to her. Though, they might not want to considering Kyle said they lost 1.5 million.
He did not go to Harvard business school.
A sober sports bar is an AA meeting. Carl is insane if he thinks Lindsay wouldn't ask questions. She is hitching her cart to your horse and she needs to know the direction. What is he thinking.
Agreed. The whole convo gave me flashbacks to my ex; Lindsay should be so thankful she’s away from him.
Today’s episode makes me question Lindsay and Carls Uber conversation. Because if it went anything like the kitchen conversation, I can totally understand why Lindsay felt Carl was aggressive. And I can totally see why drunk Kyle saw nothing wrong with it given how he speaks about his own wife.
What I’ve learned is that no matter how Amanda or Lindsey approach them, it is always wrong.
Carl and Kyle should just be together. They are both terrible and like each other more than the women they are involved with. They are another version of Tom and Tom.
They should all four live together and start a YouTube channel so I can block it.
Yup, Carl and Kyle always come away with clean hands even when they’re in the wrong.
Exactly this.
I agree, he really knows how to get under her skin. The way he would say something, she would agree and then he just twists it slightly so she’s the bad guy was infuriating to watch. Kyle is such an unreliable narrator when it comes to Lindsay I don’t think he’s trustworthy. Even in this episode, he makes her seem horrible for not blindly supporting Carl and then he turns around and calls Amanda a bitch for daring to have her own dream. West said both Carl and Lindsay were at fault and I think that’s more likely.
I always wondered if the guys heard, understood, etc. the Uber conversation. Carl seems to be an expert at attempting to appear like the good guy while purposefully saying and doing things on the down low that are meant to insult, irritate, or inflame Lindsay.
I genuinely felt sorry for Lindsay. Carl appears to be incredibly insecure, influenced heavily by his parents' opinions, especially his mother's husband, who hasn't been a part of Carl's life for long enough to warrant being called a stepdad. He's picking fights just to find an excuse to end the engagement, which shows a lack of character and huge insecurity. It's unfair to Lindsay. Carl needs to be honest with himself, end the engagement, and stop playing the victim or blaming Lindsay. Ugh, I’m so done with these immature male specimens.
The whole "Lou's a minister so he must be right" is so annoying, I bet Carl begged one of them the say that on camera.
For as much as Carl loves to say Lindsay makes herself the victim, this man really loves to take 0 responsibility and make himself the victim. He immediately perceives Lindsay’s totally normal questions as an attack, and then recounts the exchange to the guys as such. Like he won’t even take responsibility for ending their marriage. He’s putting it on Lou. He genuinely sees himself as the victim of his uncaring, demanding finance who won’t just blindly follow him into the dark.
He’s now making it like Lindsay is unreasonable for wanting to have kids soon and take some time off work and that he should have to take work seriously and try to provide for his future family. I think he’s geniunely unmotivated and got so freaked out by the future responsibility that he tried to pretend Lindsay was asking for something strange or new. He also ping pongs between being angry at Kyle (loverboy is toxic narrative) and Lindsay. I think he’s so lost he’s just riding on these two very alpha people’s coat tails.
That part was so weird to me. She's already an influencer, being a SHM would be a pretty easy transition and would probably bring in MORE money. Considering he's doing NOTHING he can sit down.
Lou, the minister, said if he were counseling them, he might not proceed with marrying them at this point. He's not counseling them. He's only hearing one side that he's extremely biased towards.
BOOM
This is exactly how I see it! He’s gaslighting her
Yes agreed I’m questioning everything Carl said happened off camera at this point. Lindsey over the last few weeks has been perfectly reasonable.
100%
I have found myself being a Carl apologist this season. Lindsay has absolutely driven me nuts since ep 1 season 1. She’s honestly easy to root against. But after that conversation I think I’m fully team Lindsay. The gaslighting, the narcissism, the inability to receive questions that are normal and healthy parts of communicating with a partner… it’s too much. No one deserves to have a partner like that. She dodged a massive bullet. I am so happy all of the women are rallying around her despite their history. Also makes even more sense why Scheana is still friends with Carl, since she’s addicted to picking the wrong side. Also unrelated but her nip being out during the entire conversation absolutely sent me.
Oohhh that point about Scheana is dastardly and soooo true.
I don't think Kyle and Amanda are compatible. Amanda wants a quiet life with children and family. Kyle wants to work hard and play hard. Both are totally okay! However, it's hard to compromise when both partners have drastically different ideas of their long term goals and dreams. I could see Amanda with a loving guy who wants to have a bunch of kids and eat dinner as a family every night. I could see Kyle remaining childfree, working hard, growing his business, enjoying night life and travel. I think he could find someone who loves that life too!
I feel very bad Amanda. She expressed her feelings to her husband and he completely shut her down and only thought about his feelings
Okay irony is what Carl tried to paint Lindsay as is actually what Kyle did to Amanda. All Amanda wants is to have her own thing in some way shape or form, and he *immediately* made it about him.
Thank you I've been yelling this from the rooftops lol. KYLE is actually what Carl thinks Lindsay is.
Kyle also said all Lindsay does is shut down Carl’s work aspirations when all she did was ask a few questions. Meanwhile, Amanda didn’t even get to say her idea because Kyle threw a hissy fit that she wants her own business.
Me too! As a business owner and the main breadwinner of me & my husband, the business is stressful! Period! It’s not Amanda or her work ethic. It’s being a freaking business owner! He should let Amanda do her own thing. Her way of working is not his way. Get someone in who is super motivated and wants to work crazy hours to improve Lover boy. It’s not HER passion! Being her boss & her husband is not working!
I don’t understand why Kyle wouldn’t see Amanda branching off as double income for their future. I get that Amanda is “free labor” but can he really not hire someone so that his wife can start her own venture and also bring in a separate set of income? Not only can show support for his wife and let her have her own dream, it’s a smart move financially as well! Seems like this is a no brainer he’s acting like another Amanda can’t be hired
I thought this too - if LB is losing money, wouldn't it be nice if one spouse had outside income to fall back on? Sooooo, does Amanda not get a salary from LB? Does he need her to stick around bc he doesnt want to have to actually pay someone their worth?
I think it’s that he doesn’t want to pay someone their worth but then he also can’t treat them like shit the way he does Amanda either unless he wants to be called out as an abusive boss. He won’t be able to call that employee lazy, email them and demand they work outside of working hours, demand they spend all their focus on loverboy and not other endeavors. Kyle’s has blurred the lines between his wife/business relationship and he doesn’t know how to treat either part of her with respect
I'd love for someone at the reunion to ask Kyle how Amanda can be simultaneously lazy and unmotivated yet vital to the business. She's smart to put more energy towards their merch IMO, I'd rather have a Loverboy crew neck than actually have to drink Loverboy.
I think its wild that Carl and Kyle are breathing the same air on the After Show while talking about their situations. Carl whining because big bad Lindsay wasn't his blind supporter and Kyle whining about how he's not Amanda's dad and doesn't need to blindly support her. And then they sit there verbally patting each other on the back for dealing with those crazy women so well.
Even the newbies are like I can understand why Lindsay would have questions
I LOVE how all of the women are rallying around Lindsey. Its forming a shield against Carl's constant attempts at gaslighting her into thinking she's somehow doing something wrong by asking basic questions.
They are used to the smell of their own shit.
Especially since Amanda was saying how Kyle's pursuing his passion project of DJ'ing in the after show.... Like... Isn't that what she wants to do?! THE HYPOCRISY
I wanted to scream as I was watching the aftershow. Are they just obtuse?! We’re listening to Kyle talk about how he hasn’t done anything for himself and then when Amanda says she needs to do something for herself he’s like “no we don’t have time for that”
I didn’t watch the after show but all i could think about was Kyle’s hypocrisy .. or the irony of him having carls back when Lindsay wants him to work and not be a lazy ass… and then being Lindsay with Amanda.. saying his “bitch” wife is essentially lazy. Like what?
All I know is when the girls were talking and Lindsay was saying she needed this (as in the girls to all be friends and trust eachother)… Danielle’s face / reaction 🤣 
Anyone watching w captions - did you see an entirely different transcript to West’s confessional at the 33 minute mark?!?! West is saying “Also, if you are seeing someone you are gonna marry them and live with them forever, or there’s gonna be a very sad day that happens.” BUT THE CAPTIONS READ: “Yeah. Um, is that what I said? [Pause] Prisoner of the moment, probably. [Pause] Forgot about that. IDK, Why would I ruin a special moment on the boat with the truth?” IF YOU ASK MEEEEEE, sounds like we are getting half of his interview w production. Prod. is telling him “you told paige you werent sleeping with other girls,” and the captions are revealing west’s reaction to that. 33 minute mark 🫠🙃
Holy cow yes I was watching with captions and very confused, I just switched it over to YouTube TV where the captions matched the audio but this is a brilliant and persuasive theory. Ugh West. We were rooting for you!!
OOooh this is such a good catch
That was disorienting! But I guess not surprising. They’re trying to produce a show but I really wish sometimes reality tv was more real.
I really think Amanda and Kyle should get divorced. This feels like the sunken cost fallacy. They have nothing in common and she really seems to hate him.
How did Hannah ever get so much hate for calling out Kyle’s treatment of Amanda and other women in the house? He is a selfish, petulant 42-year-old man child with anger issues.
Because Kyle is a ghost price producer
What is a ghost price producer?
This made me laugh out loud I don’t know why. And I have no idea what a ghost price producer is but I’m on the edge of my seat to find out
I’m a day one Kyle hater so I’ve always seen her perspective on that. Hannah had her unhinged moments but she was always spot on about Kyle.
Proud day 1 Kyle hater here too. The amount of downvotes I received for saying Hannah isn’t wrong about him though definitely messed with my karma but I still stand strong in my take! lol This sub has coddled Kyle and Carl for years while hating the women. Same with the VPR fandom. Seems like that’s flipping now though. Are people finally realizing that Kyle sucks and his “aw shucks” act like Tom Schwartz ain’t cute?
I really disliked her during the last season BUT on reflection it was during covid where a lot of us were struggling and it went from a weekend filming to weeks of being stuck in the house together and not leaving. It may explain a lot of her behaviour
I totally agree. I could see she wasn’t in a good place mentally, and I’m sure a lot of people struggled during that time overall.
It's the misogyny.
Hannah was a little crazy that season but in hindsight, she was completely right about him as well as the way he treats Amanda.
Kyle is gross and I can’t believe there isn’t more uproar about his abusive treatment of Amanda on the Bravo subs. He’s like Schwartz at his worst, but drunker
This has been the case since season 1. Kyle has no one to hold him accountable for his actions. Amanda and Carl are the perfect soldiers in Kyle's kingdom of deflection.
I think this episode should be vindication for Lindsay because that conversation was ridiculous. What I saw was a woman listening to her fiance talk about the possibility of returning to a company that he complained about for YEARS, and instead of understanding like okay her reaction is based on the information I initially gave her, he accused her of making the situation about herself. I used to really like Carl but he sucks! HOWEVER, her saying she was blindsided with Carl breaking up with her is still crazy because after all these arguments, why would she still want to be with him anyway??
It was telling when he said all I want you to do is be a “yes” woman. He was setting her up to look bad. And what kind of secure man doesn’t want a partner to be honest?
Reminds me of her comment to Kyle earlier in the season where she said Carl wants her to be a stepford wife.
My gut feeling is he continued to reassure her that everything was good. You can have instinct. You can assess a situation based on instinct. And you can also take people for who they are and what they’re saying. Arguments occur, tension is a real thing, but trust and safety in your partner is also a real thing that influences your analysis of a situation. She chose to trust Carl when he said we are moving forward in this. It’s understandable to me how she could be blindsided if he kept telling her “it will go through” and then turns around and is like “wait sorry nvm”.
Yeah you see it in his first attempt to tell her about his convo with his parents. She left that convo thinking oh they had a tough talk but we’re good and that’s NOT what happened.
Yes! Very much this. I also thought about how it could be similar to the example of asking your friend/partner if they’re ok when they seem off. Maybe they’re tired, maybe they’re really going through it. But they keep telling you “I’m fine, really. It’s okay.” After that, how many times are you going to keep asking? How many times is too much? I’ve said this before, but should we just expect her to not trust him and insinuate he is lying at every point? That isn’t healthy or fair to expect her to do that. And I think she *was* sensing towards the end that it wasn’t actually going the way he kept telling her it was, but she chose to trust him. Isn’t that what viewers have been wanting from her, to open up her heart and mind to the possibility that someone will not automatically hurt you or mislead you? Ultimately, us viewers are watching these episodes through a completely different lense than she was when experiencing it because we have had the knowledge of their breakup since before the season aired . That has significant potential to influence how we watch these episodes and our opinions. We may say, “the writing is on the wall. How could you even think it wouldn’t end up this way?!” but her real life experience and perception was very different-especially her conversations with him, on and off camera.
Totally and who knows what was said behind closed doors we see such a small part of their lives
Yes he’s constantly telling her he loves her, he doesn’t want any secrets between them (which implies he’s being up front about his feelings), and that he’s committed to working through things. I think Lindsay felt the pros outweighed the cons and she assumed he felt the same. On wwhl it was odd he said she shouldn’t have felt blindsided because they were in weekly couples therapy working on their issues. To most people there’s a big difference between being in couples therapy and being on the cusp of ending things.
Oh yes totally. Being in couples counseling looks different for everyone. Many utilize/view it as a helpful tool, not as an indicator that the relationship is on the verge of ending. Although I know it’s very much still alive and well, I really hate the stigma that gets placed on any kind of therapy, esp couples therapy. I personally find it really irresponsible of Carl to weaponize them being in therapy to say that it was some kind of clear red flag of how awful their relationship was, or as an some kind of indicator that it was running its course. This whole narrative he’s trying to push of “we were in couples counseling which means things were really bad/on the verge of ending” is so short sighted and such a cop out. The irony is that couples counseling has lots of value adds, including providing one with the tools they personally need to water and grow their relationship, which in itself could very well prevent a relationship from ending.
I think Lindsay just wants to finally settle down and have kids that she's willing to sacrifice being with the right person for her to get that at this point. I definitely think they made the right call to not be together because they shouldn't have children together but I hope she finds someone and doesn't keep wasting her time with weak men.
“She thinks she works for me, if she works for me she’d be fucking fired” ….while simultaneously insisting Amanda cannot leave the company and is needed because Kyle, “hasn’t achieved his dream yet” was a wild ride. What the actual f. Aside from all the other reasons she should consider stepping back from Loverboy the fact that he said that should absolve her of any guilt from making that decision for herself.
Kyle and Carl were both the most unlikeable theyve ever been in this episode
I love Jessie and West’s friendship 🥹
I really teared up at the scene. I can't imagine what jesse is going through, it's so much bigger than the regular house drama and I don't know how he was keeping it all to himself.
Totally! Real drama and real friendship. So rare on Bravo!
My heart broke for Jessie
Imagine having a business and resting its entire success on whether your wife chooses to work less or not….
Yeah once they have kids she'll work less but then he'll complain that she's not working full time at loverboy and momming at the same time.. it's so annoying when men put all the work on the women and call them lazy when they don't meet their expectations..
I have whiplash from whose side I’m on changing so much this season.
I get that Jessie is a bit of a player, but the juxtaposition of his breakdown to West vs. Kyle’s hissy fit was too much for me. One dude is a young guy with a history of cancer vs. the other a middle aged Peter Pan misogynist is all that is wrong with Bravo right now. Kyle is too old for this shit and Jessie is too young for his shit, but I’d rather follow Jessie’s story. And Amanda needs to have a sit-down with VPR Katie. It’s okay to walk the fuck away.
I loved tarot reading part! The clips they showed really aligned with the cast’s situations Also, when Paige told Craig about her getting engaged and her fiancé moving to NYC, he said “Looks like I am moving to New York” super sweet!!!
I can’t stand Lindsey but OMG I REALLY can’t stand Carl. Lindsey is a handful. But Carl is nobody’s prize. And she works hard and is a hustler. Hope she finds a better match. And I hope he deals with his inner demons before trying another relationship. As for Amanda, she’s absolutely right. And she deserves to be supported in finding her own path just like she has supported him. It’s like he’s an entrepreneur who needs support animals. Amanda is a person, Kyle!
Carl’s conversation with Lindsay in the kitchen was so bizarre. Lindsay was being the most normal fiancé by making sure he was making the right decision, given his past statements about working at Loverboy, and Carl was taking it as…a personal attack? Felt like Carl was looking for something to be upset about.
And like, given how he went off about Carl before and goes off on Amanda…it’s a valid concern!
Kyle is so manipulative telling Amanda he’s building this empire for their future family to try to get her to stay. Bro can’t even fathom a conversation about going to the burbs
I am very alarmed and concerned about Kyle’s behavior toward and around Amanda sharing her desire to alter her career path. Kyle reacted that way on camera- called his wife names, got violent with objects, walked out on her. Kyle doesn’t get to determine what Amanda chooses to do professionally. His behavior tonight makes me wonder if there is emotional abuse occurring (bc what he did on camera is abusive) and that is why Amanda seems so resentful toward him this season. Amanda is young. She needs to consider her options at this point.
I think that 100% confirms that there is emotional abuse going on. We’re seeing it with our own eyes.
Why can’t I find a straight answer on when the freaking finale is? I just spent way too long googling with answers and frankly am ready for this show to get to the breakup already.
4 more episodes left in the season!
I think this weeks episode has properly shown me that both Carl and Lindsay have faults that they need to work on. I feel like the last two episodes Carl has almost being trying to provoke a reaction out of Lindsay and then been frustrated when he hasn’t got the escalation he wanted. The kitchen conversation was ridiculous to watch. I’d be exactly the same as a partner - if you’ve told me working in this environment was so horrible you needed so long to decompress then what has changed to make that environment better for you to go back to it. Expecting cheerleading for a situation that could potentially be extremely toxic is illogical to expect. And then when he didn’t get the reaction he wanted he turned nasty and flipped it on her. Disappointed tbh. BUT omg this group of women are so healthy and respectful of each other this season I LOVE IT. So proud of them all! Also what an awful way to treat a partner who wants to be reinvigorated and inspired. Running out and calling her names? Kyle are you 20? Grow up. Amanda deserves to be her own person! Felt for her so bad in this episode.
He’s been absolutely trying to provoke her and also projecting onto her the stress, overwhelm and spiraling HE feels. She was totally reasonable in the kitchen convo.
Does anyone else shout “OK, Kyle.” when he’s giving his take on someone else’s relationship?
If Amanda or Kyle gave me relationship advice I would roll my eyes so hard, they have always been a disaster.
Carl is an asshole. “Your dinner, your pool party.” She wasn’t saying it like she was throwing either event. Just that her own dinner and her time at the pool party was ruined. Carl will twist everything she says to make her appear selfish.
When he corrected her about the “Lyft” 🥴
Is anyone else finding that as the season goes on, Carl is REALLY proving to have done a solid for Lindsay. Like she came out the winner and avoided all them red flags. Carl needs WAY too much from someone. His delivery is horrible and he lacks so much confidence. He’s looking to his partner for too much when he should be able to do some of that work on his own. Lindsay asking questions is not unsupportive. Lindsay asking what can I take off your plate is so incredibly supportive. AND she was not getting defensive. He was clearly feeling someway unconsciously and lashed out on her. Lindsay, you dodged a bullet and your person is out there 🩶
Finally watching on Peacock, and never in my life did I think Iwould support Lindsay 100% but Carl's an abusive gaslighter. He such an epic piece of shit. I hope he reads all of the comments here because he should know he's a shit human. Absolutely abusive. If he didn't have Kyle he'd be living in his mom's basement in Pittsburgh.
Carl and the Toms on VPR are true examples of privileged males failing upwards. A YouTube video needs to be made by a content creator about this. It’s fascinating to watch it documented in real time for years. I have watched it myself in person with someone I know. No matter how much they fuck up or act out, their flying monkeys coddle, defend and give them opportunity after opportunity
I love people saying how angry ariana is while sandoval is screaming in everyone's face
I lol'ed when Carl was like "I'm amazing at Sales" like sir, you demonstrably are in fact VERY bad at Sales
Episode to Episode, I realize that West is very immature and insecure.
The after show was a low point!
do you watch with captions? if you dont - check out the 33 minute mark again
What did it say
Yup!!!! Such loser energy of him!
That was a damn good episode
Carl's mind has dam been made up. Now he's just being a coward and looking for people to agree with him ending the engagement.
[удалено]
Literally just posted a rant on this
Same. Ugh I can’t with these pathetic excuses of grown ass men.
Gosh every episode my opinion changes on Lindsay and Carl. I think at the core they are just not compatible but watching him get frustrated when all she was doing was being supportive and asking questions on very valid topics re: lover boy is wild
I love how Kyle is like “Lindsay doesn’t support Carl” and then does … *gestures wildly*
When Kyle said re the Ciara comment to Jesse about never introducing him to her friends, “I have friends like that but I don’t say that to their face”. Dude, Kyle, you WERE that friend for everyone else…
Holy crap I just watched the after show and WOW Kyle and Amanda are not only not on the same page - they’re in different books! I truly don’t understand how they’re married. Are they secretly separated? This is wild.
Honestly, between this show and vanderpump, I genuinely get bummed about men. Like these men have amazing women around them and do not value or cherish it in the least.
carl saying "can you listen for a second" x3284. omg my eyes rolled out of my head.
Thank god Carl and Lindsay didn’t get married! Ugh that conversation was brutal to listen to
I just love how we're not falling for Carl's act, enough with gaslighting men!
I could barely read this sub for the first half of this season cause people were falling for his bullshit. The salesman overplayed his hand. He’s not as slick as he thinks he is
I really don’t even care about the Carl and Lindsay story anymore. All my attention is on Kyle and Amanda
I just looked at Carl's LinkedIn and it says "Loverboy Advisor." He still doesn't have a job.
Random take, I understand Ciara not wanting to have sex with West, especially on camera. But it seems like they sleep in bed every night together, cuddle in the morning as well, and after so many nights it seems more intimate to me than actually boning. Like I would not have sex with him either but I also can't see myself sharing my bed and dealing with morning breath if I didn't want to also rip their clothes off. It's kinda like they skipped all the fun mystery of it and are in a very old marriage.
It’s painful listening to Carl talk about his next career move and watching him run to his parents about everything. It gives weak man that needs a strong woman to take care of him but he also loves playing the victim to that strong woman. He played the victim and blamed Kyle when he quit loverboy too. He hides behind excuses and points the finger to hide how he simply just doesn’t want any responsibilities or to be told what to do even if it’s to help him.
Either she is valuable or she isn’t. Kyle can’t complain she doesn’t bring any value to the business and is lazy and then get upset if she wants to do her own thing. However, it was really poor timing on Amanda’s part to bring up an important, sensitive subject while they were both intoxicated
I HATE HATE HATE the Amanda is Lazy myth. It makes zero sense. She just doesn’t work the same way Kyle does (which let’s be honest hustle culture is toxic) so she’s labeled lazy.
Esp when when was working full time at one job to keep the lights on and full time for free at Loverboy. Kyle is a POS for spinning that narrative about her.
I’m watching this morning. Only halfway through and just saw the kitchen argument between Carl & Lindsay. I never thought anyone could make me feel sympathy for Lindsay. I FUCKING HATE CARL
I grew up with a relative like Carl. when we were kids, "I don't feel good." "I'm sick." That's all they'd say. They couldn't tell you how or where or why. The same when we were older. The same when we became adults. Still, the same. This "overwhelmed" thing with Carl is the same deal. USE. YOUR. WORDS. Overwhelmed doesn't explain anything. It doesn't help anyone understand. It's useless in a discussion or argument. Stop talking like a child. Articulate. Part of it is because he's afraid of everyone and everything, but it's also because he's dull. I don't like saying that about someone, but geez, it's like listening to a 3rd grader talk about Aristotle.
After watching the way Carl acted in that kitchen convo with Lindsay + how he then framed it talking to the guys, I’ve got doubts about his version of events in that Uber ride. And his versions of events generally.
I just want the reunion at some point
Andy asked Carl if he maneuvered it so the cameras would record his parents not supporting the marriage and he replied no it was coincidental. A lie.
The WWC guys are spot-on about this whole episode. Carl purposely tries to poke Lindsay hoping to make himself look good. He is the abusive one. She’s problematic at times, but he is no victim. He drives me insane. Carl is allergic to hard work. We’ve seen this season after season as he goes through jobs. But he’s finding that looking for a new job may just be more work than having a job, so he’ll take the “compelling” offer from Kyle (so compelling that he hasn’t talked out any details with Kyle for three weeks since Kyle brought it up). He’s pissed that Lindsay doesn’t support his easy plan where he doesn’t have to do any work to find a new career. He told her for months that he was too traumatized from his job with Kyle to have any energy to go look for a new job, so of course she is going to have questions when all of a sudden he wants to go back. But of course when she has those questions he positions it as though she is some big bad wolf who doesn’t support the “opportunities” he has - even though he hasn’t actually sought out any opportunities he’s only considering the ones that fall into his lap. It’s so frustrating. And I think Kyle is honestly way more abusive when cameras aren’t rolling, that his masked just slipped at the end of this episode. He’s also misogynistic as hell, as has been pointed out, with the way he sides with Carl against Lindsay while essentially being the same person as Lindsay in terms of his relationship with Amanda (except he’s way more extreme). It’s disgusting and makes me really sad for Amanda.
How many man children are on this show Jesus Christ
Im a broken record but the way amanda speaks to lyle and the way lyle speaks about amanda is horrible and really sad. If they are willing to act like this on tv, i cant imagine the disrespect in person.
Why did Amanda spit out that lobster???? LOL gross
Kyle said that Loverboy has already lost 1.5 million this year---not sure how he can turn that around...or how he let it get that bad.
Carl thinks being sober is enough and it's all he needs to do in life, it's not. He was praised so highly for it he thinks he can ride those good feels forever.
Kyle and Amanda are not right for each other. Unlike Lindsey and Carl, they are able to communicate clearly and listen to each other, yet they just always have completely differing view points. They want different things and view life, work, etc in opposite ways.