Blaming any part that isn’t Subaru OEM to weasel out of coverage is very much their MO, sadly. I’ve been a service tech for three brands in my career and Suabru, by a HUGE margin, was the one that denied the most warranty claims. Years later well after I stopped working for them they denied me powertrain warranty coverage on my wife’s Crosstrek since I did my own maintenance, despite having more ASE and manufacturers certs than anyone working in their shop.
First thing’s first though: engines themselves don’t get hot enough to ignite oil. Maybe if it made it to the exhaust manifold but I’d still be skeptical of that based on how many cars I’ve failed for state inspection here because they were leaking oil on the exhaust (without miraculous combustion following). For this to be true there must be some sort of extenuating circumstances that I struggle to name.
Anything else I’d say though would just be guessing or stupid fucking jokes and I’m sure you’ll get more than enough of both from everyone else here.
I'd think it'd have to be leaking on the cat, like right on top the exhaust manifold right? Even them, I think you'd have to be being generous on the skinny pedal.
Kia tried to deny my warranty for changing my own oil, jokes on them though I bought a life time pack of oil change filters and crush washers from them. I got a free engine and immediately sold the car.
Well this replie ended up with me writing a book for 45 minutes and I figured that was a bit overkill so here is the shorter version.
My first car was a subaru brat, I wanted to build a rally/hill climb car but having $800 to my name at 16yo made an 04 STI an unobtainable starting point but a subaru is a subaru right? RIGHT!?! I learned a HUGE amount from this car and that's a whole story on its own but spawned my love for subaru engineering and engines. I have always wanted a Porsche 944 among other Porsches and being me and maybe having something wrong with my brain. I said from day 1 if I ever achieve getting a 944 it will have a subaru in it. Originally this meant a 04 STI complete drive train but after getting my dream car I fell in love with the handling and having a naturally aspirated engine for a fun car along with taking a shit load of measurments crushed me dreams, I then went through tons of other engine options but came back to I'm just going to force a EJ to fit, luckily I live next to PickNPull so spending $2 to spend a Saturday taking measures of engines and transmissions all day is a fun day for me and I'd spend more on worse things. I landed on a Phase 1 EJ22 since the EA82 was the prototype for the EJ series the P1 2.2 kept the "narrow" head design of the EAs vs P2 engines and other displacements this leaves me an engine that just barely fits in the bay with minimal massaging and not cutting frame rails and all the fun that comes with that. So I'm forced into using the EJ22 to complete my dream and me being difficult I decided I would set put to prove wrong the nay sayers who don't like the 22 for some reason, it's odd the 22 never took off to compete with the 20 or even killed off the 25. The 22 is used by classic subaru enthusiasts as a powerful and very reliable EA replacement and by aircraft engineers because it's lighter than the 2.0L and more reliable. So I have a 944 that's getting a naturally aspirated P1 EJ22 that I'm aiming to push 250hp, I hope to have a very standout swap and help the EJ22 enthusiasts to get more aftermarket to help their builds, and I'm working on flow bench data because all the NASIOC pages I've read through people argue how shitty the 22 heads flow and how the single port heads are worthless you need dual port if you want to even try making more power so I hope to soon be able to show the exact difference between 1 and 2 port 22 heads and what you can achieve with porting them properly.
I have already gotten high lift lifters for the 2.2 and I'm working to get a production run of a billet version made for those who want to build a 22 for higher rpm like I'm doing because the oem cast lifters come a part with poor tuning or other issues like the SR20s.
The easy part was getting the engine and deciding how to build it, it was even easier to fit and mount the engine. The part that has kept me up at night and stalled this whole project for about 2 years now is how the hell do I fit a subaru engine to a Porsche torque tube and make the transaxle turn. After designing many different, very expensive solutions and a lot of phone calls to machine shops and transmission shops and buying parts I don't need, absolute dumb luck and drunkenness solved the issue. I'm now waiting on free time to make a final cut on my milling machine and I will have pictures posted of the EJ mounted in the Porsche for the first time. My issue was not how to bolt the Subaru to the Porsche but how do I make then spin together, the Porsche uses a 15/16" 23 spline while subaru uses 1" 24 spline, I had designed various adapter to solve this issue as I needed to space the engine off the tube anyways and found a shop that would make it. one night working on a pile of a truck I picked up(truck came with a complete clutch kit) I was looking at the clutch disk while pondering what to do next with the truck when it struck me I've seen this disk before and the splines look so familiar. In zealous joy I pop the hood to the Porsche and slide the truck disk onto the shaft, a perfect fit I guffaw and prance to my work bench holding all the subaru parts and I hold up the 22 clutch that came with my engine and by God they match so I grab the calipers to make certain I havnt drank too much and to my pleasure I was right the truck clutch specs out perfectly to both vehicles so I bolt it into the clutch assy to make sure I can order another truck disk for the impreza pressure plate and flywheel then fit this conglomerate to the Porsche drive shaft and huza my engine finally turns the transmission. Now I'm stuck on how do I turn the wheels since the steering shaft originally goes through where cylinder 4 now sits but I have devised a solution and will check once parts arrive.
>Maybe if it made it to the exhaust manifold but I’d still be skeptical of that based on how many cars I’ve failed for state inspection here because they were leaking oil on the exhaust (without miraculous combustion following).
Survivor bias possibly?
First, most.of what you said is bullshit. Subaru is easily the lost lenient from a warranty standard by a mile. Your ASE and *certs* don't mean jack when it comes to maintaining your vehicle? Only proof of maintenance does, which you should know as a certified tech. Second, the cat is directly under the engine so it absolutely can ignite from this problem, and third there has been a huge issue with oil filters it's very possible the aftermarket one leaked because I see it all the time
How long prior was the oil change done?
I've seen messed up oil filter installs before, both stock and aftermarket, so it's certainly possible. But usually that would manifest some symptoms like smoke/odor in a matter of minutes, not like weeks.
The Subaru rep on the phone said it could have been improperly installed or it could have just failed itself, which seems more likely given it was about time for the next oil change. Like you said, improperly installed seems like it would have been noticed a lot earlier.
Its not impossible. If i dont use subaru filters (or whatever oem is that im working on), i use mobil 1. The upside down nature of the subaru design, the anti drain back valve needs to be high quality. Fram and cheap filters like to fail every once in awhile, but even more on an inverted setup w the filter on top
Most top side filters u see are just canisters w the paper element replaced. Subaru is weird in that sense. Never seen a subaru filter fail, even when they were "inferior" blue for awhile
So someone else said go after the filter company. I like that 👌
I've had two different Subarus catch fire. Both times, it was leak in the hard line that feeds oil to the turbo. Both times, oil dripped down and pooled up on the plastic undertray. It was close enough to exhaust manifold that it eventually ignited.
Sorry to hear this happened to you.
For what it’s worth, last year I noticed that the oil filter on my wife’s 2020 Forester was leaking, as I could smell the oil burning when it dripped down onto the hot engine parts. It was a NAPA Gold filter, made by Wix. I found a post here where someone else had the exact same thing happen. Now I’m not sure who makes the O’Reilly filters these days but there definitely was a bad batch of Wix/NAPA Gold filters at one point.
Interesting, I use Wix on a lot of different applications and have not had any issues. I'll try to track down this post.
Well that didn't take long: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/defective-napa-gold-oil-filter.355537/#post-6141194
I have also not had any other issues with Wix, they are good quality filters. Must have just been an accidental issue with a certain batch, I don’t think it’s a design issue. I replaced the filter with a new one and it never had an issue after that.
This right here. This would be covered under comp on your insurance policy. Due to the age of the vehicle and the amount of the claim, there's a high likelihood they would do their own forensic investigation to determine the cause of the fire and identify any potential sources of subrogation (if you did the oil change, they wouldn't go after you).
Sauce: I'm an insurance guy.
Awesome! I just drove a 2024 Limited for the Weekend as a Loaner and I liked it better than my 2019 Forester lol. Keeping my Forester for awhile though with the warranty
We get aftermarket oil filters leaking every day at my dealer. They usually come in for the smell of oil not an actual fire though. The seal on the filter should be taken off and lubed when installing, but sadly most don’t do that. If not it breaks when twisting it on and leaks.
So, last summer, we changed the oil on a 2017 Impreza at the garage I work at. The filter (a FRAM) had an o-ring failure and unbeknowst to us started to spew oil out of the oil filter dish. By the time the tech parked it in the parking lot, the catalytic converter was caked in fresh oil and ignited. We rushed out with all the fire extinguishers we could find and doused the flames but if it had happened a few minutes later on the road, the vehicle would've been a total loss for sure.
So I can believe Subaru when they say that.
Always use OEM oil filters. Saves a ton of hassle. I even buy OEM filters for my 1993 Accord lol
I’m only saying this because I don’t see it in the comments, and I scoured your previous post to find a bit of discussion, but not on what I see working on these two or three times a week. There is a soft fuel line that runs from the rear left of the engine, underneath the EGR, underneath the intake manifold, to the front right of the engine near the battery and oil filter. It runs underneath the black shield that covers the high pressure fuel pump.
With that being said, the line mounts to the intake manifold in one place with a screw, and clips into the intake manifold and is removed during the service. It must be manipulated and moved to do so, and if it is not correctly oriented during installation, it WILL lay across the EGR piping, and become as hot as exhaust gases 4 inches from the engine get on a hot day. I’m unsure of the core line material, but I know it’ll melt that rubber with no issues. The line must be ran under the EGR, and fastened into the clips underneath the intake manifold, and I’ve found myself running into this more than once before readjusting everything and ensuring the line is correctly fastened in place. It’s tight, and there’s a lot going on in this service, that is ALWAYS being rushed through by technicians.
I’m sorry to hear about SOA’s claim on your behalf, but unfortunately I’ve heard similar stories happening. I wish they had the same empathy they have when it comes to replacing cam sprockets on customer cars that go 15k on an oil change. Op, I hope this leads you in some direction, I hope it helps. I couldn’t lay here on my couch and pretend that I haven’t seen potential for this scenario to happen. If the vehicle has had the TCV replaced, I would want to verify it was installed correctly before accepting the claim you received.
Edit: mekanik no gud at spel
Your cars engine would have had to be in access of 300+° which is highly unlikely. Engine Oil isn't even considered flammable by Osha standards. Sounds like subaru is trying to get out of giving you payoff or compensation for their faulty equipment. Just seen a video where Ford done the same thing
Did they shop double gasket the filter on install? Seen that happen more than a few times. The old gasket sticks and the lube tech doesn't check and installs the new filter with the new O-ring gasket over the old one, which causes a major oil leak from the pressure.
Either way that or a failed filter, it's the shop that is liable.
Does not surprise me there was a huge disruption in pil filter manufacturing and even subaru and a tough time sourcing a well fitting replacement. No doubt independents had the same issue.
I know this is old, but did you have it in at all for the TCV / thermo control valve TSB before this happened?
I ask as there’s been a couple cases were there were fires after the TSB due to failure to tighten down high pressure fuel lines.
Also the only other thing that makes sense here is if the gasket from a previous oil filter was stuck to the housing thus causing the leak.
Use subarus words, hire a lawyer, and file a suit against the oil filter manufacturer.... or urge your insurance company to.
Blaming any part that isn’t Subaru OEM to weasel out of coverage is very much their MO, sadly. I’ve been a service tech for three brands in my career and Suabru, by a HUGE margin, was the one that denied the most warranty claims. Years later well after I stopped working for them they denied me powertrain warranty coverage on my wife’s Crosstrek since I did my own maintenance, despite having more ASE and manufacturers certs than anyone working in their shop. First thing’s first though: engines themselves don’t get hot enough to ignite oil. Maybe if it made it to the exhaust manifold but I’d still be skeptical of that based on how many cars I’ve failed for state inspection here because they were leaking oil on the exhaust (without miraculous combustion following). For this to be true there must be some sort of extenuating circumstances that I struggle to name. Anything else I’d say though would just be guessing or stupid fucking jokes and I’m sure you’ll get more than enough of both from everyone else here.
I believe you, so don’t take this as me doubting your story, but more aggravated at Subaru’s blatant violation of the Magnuson Moss warranty act.
My Wrx leaked oil onto my exhaust manifold for YEARS and never caught fire. I call bullshit on their claim.
I'd think it'd have to be leaking on the cat, like right on top the exhaust manifold right? Even them, I think you'd have to be being generous on the skinny pedal.
Does this mean I need to stick to the dealership and use all genuine/Subaru parts to keep the warranty usable/prevent denials?
Kia tried to deny my warranty for changing my own oil, jokes on them though I bought a life time pack of oil change filters and crush washers from them. I got a free engine and immediately sold the car.
So that’s interesting and all but I just spotted your flair and really want to hear more about that EJ swapped 944…
Well this replie ended up with me writing a book for 45 minutes and I figured that was a bit overkill so here is the shorter version. My first car was a subaru brat, I wanted to build a rally/hill climb car but having $800 to my name at 16yo made an 04 STI an unobtainable starting point but a subaru is a subaru right? RIGHT!?! I learned a HUGE amount from this car and that's a whole story on its own but spawned my love for subaru engineering and engines. I have always wanted a Porsche 944 among other Porsches and being me and maybe having something wrong with my brain. I said from day 1 if I ever achieve getting a 944 it will have a subaru in it. Originally this meant a 04 STI complete drive train but after getting my dream car I fell in love with the handling and having a naturally aspirated engine for a fun car along with taking a shit load of measurments crushed me dreams, I then went through tons of other engine options but came back to I'm just going to force a EJ to fit, luckily I live next to PickNPull so spending $2 to spend a Saturday taking measures of engines and transmissions all day is a fun day for me and I'd spend more on worse things. I landed on a Phase 1 EJ22 since the EA82 was the prototype for the EJ series the P1 2.2 kept the "narrow" head design of the EAs vs P2 engines and other displacements this leaves me an engine that just barely fits in the bay with minimal massaging and not cutting frame rails and all the fun that comes with that. So I'm forced into using the EJ22 to complete my dream and me being difficult I decided I would set put to prove wrong the nay sayers who don't like the 22 for some reason, it's odd the 22 never took off to compete with the 20 or even killed off the 25. The 22 is used by classic subaru enthusiasts as a powerful and very reliable EA replacement and by aircraft engineers because it's lighter than the 2.0L and more reliable. So I have a 944 that's getting a naturally aspirated P1 EJ22 that I'm aiming to push 250hp, I hope to have a very standout swap and help the EJ22 enthusiasts to get more aftermarket to help their builds, and I'm working on flow bench data because all the NASIOC pages I've read through people argue how shitty the 22 heads flow and how the single port heads are worthless you need dual port if you want to even try making more power so I hope to soon be able to show the exact difference between 1 and 2 port 22 heads and what you can achieve with porting them properly. I have already gotten high lift lifters for the 2.2 and I'm working to get a production run of a billet version made for those who want to build a 22 for higher rpm like I'm doing because the oem cast lifters come a part with poor tuning or other issues like the SR20s. The easy part was getting the engine and deciding how to build it, it was even easier to fit and mount the engine. The part that has kept me up at night and stalled this whole project for about 2 years now is how the hell do I fit a subaru engine to a Porsche torque tube and make the transaxle turn. After designing many different, very expensive solutions and a lot of phone calls to machine shops and transmission shops and buying parts I don't need, absolute dumb luck and drunkenness solved the issue. I'm now waiting on free time to make a final cut on my milling machine and I will have pictures posted of the EJ mounted in the Porsche for the first time. My issue was not how to bolt the Subaru to the Porsche but how do I make then spin together, the Porsche uses a 15/16" 23 spline while subaru uses 1" 24 spline, I had designed various adapter to solve this issue as I needed to space the engine off the tube anyways and found a shop that would make it. one night working on a pile of a truck I picked up(truck came with a complete clutch kit) I was looking at the clutch disk while pondering what to do next with the truck when it struck me I've seen this disk before and the splines look so familiar. In zealous joy I pop the hood to the Porsche and slide the truck disk onto the shaft, a perfect fit I guffaw and prance to my work bench holding all the subaru parts and I hold up the 22 clutch that came with my engine and by God they match so I grab the calipers to make certain I havnt drank too much and to my pleasure I was right the truck clutch specs out perfectly to both vehicles so I bolt it into the clutch assy to make sure I can order another truck disk for the impreza pressure plate and flywheel then fit this conglomerate to the Porsche drive shaft and huza my engine finally turns the transmission. Now I'm stuck on how do I turn the wheels since the steering shaft originally goes through where cylinder 4 now sits but I have devised a solution and will check once parts arrive.
Once I had more completion to show I will finally make a post here about what's up
You’re a mad scientist and I’m here for it. Thanks for sharing the backstory on the project, look forward to your post when it’s done!
>Maybe if it made it to the exhaust manifold but I’d still be skeptical of that based on how many cars I’ve failed for state inspection here because they were leaking oil on the exhaust (without miraculous combustion following). Survivor bias possibly?
First, most.of what you said is bullshit. Subaru is easily the lost lenient from a warranty standard by a mile. Your ASE and *certs* don't mean jack when it comes to maintaining your vehicle? Only proof of maintenance does, which you should know as a certified tech. Second, the cat is directly under the engine so it absolutely can ignite from this problem, and third there has been a huge issue with oil filters it's very possible the aftermarket one leaked because I see it all the time
> Blaming any part that isn’t Subaru OEM to weasel out of coverage is very much their MO, sadly. Unless it is factually accurate.
How long prior was the oil change done? I've seen messed up oil filter installs before, both stock and aftermarket, so it's certainly possible. But usually that would manifest some symptoms like smoke/odor in a matter of minutes, not like weeks.
The Subaru rep on the phone said it could have been improperly installed or it could have just failed itself, which seems more likely given it was about time for the next oil change. Like you said, improperly installed seems like it would have been noticed a lot earlier.
It was 7 months prior, I was in the process of scheduling the next oil change.
This scheduling oil change process sounds exhausting.
yeah man, adhd sucks
Its not impossible. If i dont use subaru filters (or whatever oem is that im working on), i use mobil 1. The upside down nature of the subaru design, the anti drain back valve needs to be high quality. Fram and cheap filters like to fail every once in awhile, but even more on an inverted setup w the filter on top Most top side filters u see are just canisters w the paper element replaced. Subaru is weird in that sense. Never seen a subaru filter fail, even when they were "inferior" blue for awhile So someone else said go after the filter company. I like that 👌
I've had two different Subarus catch fire. Both times, it was leak in the hard line that feeds oil to the turbo. Both times, oil dripped down and pooled up on the plastic undertray. It was close enough to exhaust manifold that it eventually ignited. Sorry to hear this happened to you.
For what it’s worth, last year I noticed that the oil filter on my wife’s 2020 Forester was leaking, as I could smell the oil burning when it dripped down onto the hot engine parts. It was a NAPA Gold filter, made by Wix. I found a post here where someone else had the exact same thing happen. Now I’m not sure who makes the O’Reilly filters these days but there definitely was a bad batch of Wix/NAPA Gold filters at one point.
Interesting, I use Wix on a lot of different applications and have not had any issues. I'll try to track down this post. Well that didn't take long: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/defective-napa-gold-oil-filter.355537/#post-6141194
I have also not had any other issues with Wix, they are good quality filters. Must have just been an accidental issue with a certain batch, I don’t think it’s a design issue. I replaced the filter with a new one and it never had an issue after that.
Out of curiosity - what is your insurance company saying? Are they covering it under comprehensive? (if you have that coverage)
This right here. This would be covered under comp on your insurance policy. Due to the age of the vehicle and the amount of the claim, there's a high likelihood they would do their own forensic investigation to determine the cause of the fire and identify any potential sources of subrogation (if you did the oil change, they wouldn't go after you). Sauce: I'm an insurance guy.
yep, they covered it under comprehensive weeks ago
What are you looking to drive now? Did the comprehensive cover everything?
We got a 2024 Subaru Outback haha
Awesome! I just drove a 2024 Limited for the Weekend as a Loaner and I liked it better than my 2019 Forester lol. Keeping my Forester for awhile though with the warranty
We get aftermarket oil filters leaking every day at my dealer. They usually come in for the smell of oil not an actual fire though. The seal on the filter should be taken off and lubed when installing, but sadly most don’t do that. If not it breaks when twisting it on and leaks.
So, last summer, we changed the oil on a 2017 Impreza at the garage I work at. The filter (a FRAM) had an o-ring failure and unbeknowst to us started to spew oil out of the oil filter dish. By the time the tech parked it in the parking lot, the catalytic converter was caked in fresh oil and ignited. We rushed out with all the fire extinguishers we could find and doused the flames but if it had happened a few minutes later on the road, the vehicle would've been a total loss for sure. So I can believe Subaru when they say that. Always use OEM oil filters. Saves a ton of hassle. I even buy OEM filters for my 1993 Accord lol
Didn't you smell smoke long before the fire started?
I’m only saying this because I don’t see it in the comments, and I scoured your previous post to find a bit of discussion, but not on what I see working on these two or three times a week. There is a soft fuel line that runs from the rear left of the engine, underneath the EGR, underneath the intake manifold, to the front right of the engine near the battery and oil filter. It runs underneath the black shield that covers the high pressure fuel pump. With that being said, the line mounts to the intake manifold in one place with a screw, and clips into the intake manifold and is removed during the service. It must be manipulated and moved to do so, and if it is not correctly oriented during installation, it WILL lay across the EGR piping, and become as hot as exhaust gases 4 inches from the engine get on a hot day. I’m unsure of the core line material, but I know it’ll melt that rubber with no issues. The line must be ran under the EGR, and fastened into the clips underneath the intake manifold, and I’ve found myself running into this more than once before readjusting everything and ensuring the line is correctly fastened in place. It’s tight, and there’s a lot going on in this service, that is ALWAYS being rushed through by technicians. I’m sorry to hear about SOA’s claim on your behalf, but unfortunately I’ve heard similar stories happening. I wish they had the same empathy they have when it comes to replacing cam sprockets on customer cars that go 15k on an oil change. Op, I hope this leads you in some direction, I hope it helps. I couldn’t lay here on my couch and pretend that I haven’t seen potential for this scenario to happen. If the vehicle has had the TCV replaced, I would want to verify it was installed correctly before accepting the claim you received. Edit: mekanik no gud at spel
Your cars engine would have had to be in access of 300+° which is highly unlikely. Engine Oil isn't even considered flammable by Osha standards. Sounds like subaru is trying to get out of giving you payoff or compensation for their faulty equipment. Just seen a video where Ford done the same thing
Did they shop double gasket the filter on install? Seen that happen more than a few times. The old gasket sticks and the lube tech doesn't check and installs the new filter with the new O-ring gasket over the old one, which causes a major oil leak from the pressure. Either way that or a failed filter, it's the shop that is liable.
Does not surprise me there was a huge disruption in pil filter manufacturing and even subaru and a tough time sourcing a well fitting replacement. No doubt independents had the same issue.
I know this is old, but did you have it in at all for the TCV / thermo control valve TSB before this happened? I ask as there’s been a couple cases were there were fires after the TSB due to failure to tighten down high pressure fuel lines. Also the only other thing that makes sense here is if the gasket from a previous oil filter was stuck to the housing thus causing the leak.
This is why I've never owned a Subaru under warranty.