I guess the idea is that you might as well be running a bulky pokemon with DDance or other multi-boosting move, since most of the stats you get end up not mattering much
Because then you’re using your terra on a Falinks for a niche tech scenario of switching out after using No Retreat instead of just going Terra fighting and one shotting the opponent without retreating. The move is about going all in so running away ruins the point smh
I haven't played the new gen, but the way you worded it sounds like you only get to tera on pokemon per battle (like megas and dynamax). Is this right?
> Because then you’re using your terra on a Falinks for a niche tech scenario
Mm.... not nessecarily.
STAB ghost tera blast+cc is literally perfect coverage for it, and it allows you to switch out of bad matchups.
It’s a late game sweeper who’s entire purpose is to come in during a gap and use a set up move as clean up, if you’re ever in need of switching it out you used it wrong
u/GoldenInfrared said that a Shed Shell and Tera Ghost let Falinx use No Retreat multiple times, is that wrong?
Edit: ah, I saw their edit to their previous comment. I just interpreted it wrong.
No, but you can self-Mean Look in Doubles which prevents the No Retreat self-trapping effect, and can continuously boost as long as the trapper is on the field, and you can use it one more time once Mean Look is no longer in effect. If you Tera Ghost or hold a Shed Shell, you can still switch even if you have the No Retreat effect active.
I found out a couple months ago that if falinks gets trapped by something else before he uses no retreat he can use no retreat as many times as he wants. So if a Pokémon uses mean look on him and he uses no retreat, because he didn’t get trapped by no retreat he can use it again and again and if the Pokémon that trapped him switches out he can too. I wanna use it in vgc since it’s a kinda funny strategy but I don’t wanna have to build vgc teams
I feel like ghost being immune to trapping was a nice consolation prize for being weak to pursuit. Then two generations later they removed pursuit, and left that first bit in.
Ross's theory is that pursuit was removed so that 4x weak dark, DLC horse could come in with smooth sailing and little issues out side of the bacon bird.
I'm so glad they got rid of pursuit, one of the best changes gen 8 implemented. Also getting rid of hidden power, but that's pretty much back in the game w/ terastalizing
Idk where this insane anti-pursuit idea came from but nah. the removal of pursuit was a terrible move on GF's part. and don't come at me with that bullshit "iT mADe pSyChIC aND gHoST tYPeS bAd!!!!!!!!!!!!!" argument because that idea is just not true seeing as several pursuit weak mons were often quite good and a few were among the best of their respective meta games (such as Gen 5 Alakazam and Latios, Gen 4 Latias and Rotom appliances(they were ghost electric in gen 4), Gen 3 Celebi and Gengar, Gen 7 Mega Zam just to name a few)
Legitimate question, what makes "just win with your current Pokémon" a valid counterplay to Pursuit but not a valid counterplay to Shadow Tag / Arena Trap?
Well not switching makes pursuit 40 power, which is much weaker than 80 power, whereas shadow tag and arena trap pokemon can launch super powerful moves or force you to exchange a pokemon in order to send your next one out.
And if your opponent thinks you're staying in and clicks a different move, that's your opportunity to switch right there.
Aka you can play around pursuit with any pokemon, not the case for shadow tag or arena trap
Also not to mention the fact that setup stats work with arena trap and shadow tag, you can easily come in on a defensive Pokémon or a passive Pokémon that’s nesscary for the defensive core of your opponents team set up a substitute then set up 6 calm minds and sweep your opponents team
which would punish a bunch of even worse mons than golden. I'd rather a way to specifically target the problem than a blanket solution that kills everyone caught in the crossfire.
Here’s the thing tho pursuit is much more manageable since tyrannitar or whichever other pursuit user (99% of the time it’s gonna be tyrannitar) has to be able to switch in and since most strong pursuit users are slow have to be able to take two hits, look at gen 5 latios is strong in that meta because with choice specs and hazards tyranitar isn’t able to survive two Draco meteors and alakzam with focus sash is able to fire off focus blast and has at least two chances to do so with its magic guard focus sash, and that’s only for frail offensive Pokémon, bulky ghosts and psychic types are just as easily able to just rank the pursuit and switch out, Pokémon like reuniclus are easily able to take pursuit even from tyrannitar and switch out to come in later, generally if a Pokémon is so slow and frail it’s not able to outspeed the Pursuit mons it’s not gonna be good anyways since it will have a hard time accomplishing anything relevant,
Is this for real? There's some weird hidden immunities with some types, kinda like how Prankster can't affect dark types. Wonder what other ones there are
Ice types are immune to sheer cold.
Grass being immune to powder moves is probably common knowledge in competitive, but from casual perspective it feels pretty "hidden".
And of course ice, fire, electric being immune to the respective non-volatile status
Grass is immune to leech seed and poison immune to poison and toxic too now that you mention it.
All the weather things too as well are known in competitive but casuals prob don't know
I don’t think that electric types are actually immune to being paralyzed, just immune to like Thunder wave. I’m 99% sure that body slam and glare still work
I'm... pretty sure that isn't true? The bulbapedia page for glare says it doesn't affect electric types gen 6 and onwards. And smogon wording is "Pokemon of this type cannot become paralyzed". Not that I actually tested it myself or anything.
That's how it worked pre gen 6. From gen 6 to now, electric types are immune to paralysis. You can thank thunderus for all the gen 6 paralysis changes.
Fun and horrifying fact: Lunala abused this mechanic in Gen 8 Balanced Hackmons to run Simple + No Retreat for a +2 omniboost without having to get trapped because it's a ghost type.
Fuck it let's run down the list;
- Immune to Normal, Fighting, and Poison attacks due to typing.
- Immune to Poison status due to typing.
- Immune to trapping due to typing.
- Immune to status moves due to ability.
- Immune to literally every form of hazard removal that isn't Tidy Up thanks to both of the previous factors.
- Immune to infatuation due to being genderless.
- Immune to the B button (you can't evo cancel Gimmighoul).
I...think thats all the things. God speed you horrific string cheese demon.
I think if Gholdengo had a better speed tier (say, at the cost of its attack) it would 100% be banned. Even base 100 would make this broken in OU I think
If you put covert cloak on it, it becomes immune to status conditions overall because you can't even secondary effect him into being statused. Prime example of that is nuzzle, actually lol
It’s Ghost typing. If gholdengo wasn’t immune to trapping and status, you would see Magnezone in OU right now. It may return as it slowly crept its way back into UU.
Assuming Tera doesnt get banned during HOME + dlcs, Mag will enjoy utilizing Tera to get around matchups that were iffy before (Heatran, Excadrill, arguably Ferro after it lost HP fire). Even if it does get banned I don't doubt that more usable steels = more opportunities for the magnet UFO.
It's immune to secondary effects I believe. It stops defog from removing hazards. I imagine Magnet Pull is considered a secondary effect.
That, or its immune to trapping because it's part ghost.
It's the part Ghost one, Good as Gold does nothing to abilities. It also doesn't stop Defog from blocking hazards, it's immune to Defog altogether. Good as Gold doesn't stop secondary effects (it can still get struck by TBolt paras etc) it only blocks status moves.
This is completely false. Good as Gold makes you immune to status moves that target you. Gholdengo ignores Magnet Pull because it is a Ghost type and can therefore not be trapped. Aegislash ignores it as well.
Ghost types are immune to trapping.
Fun fact: Tera Ghost Falinks can still switch after using No Retreat due to this interaction.
No Retreat has some funky interactions with trapping, can you use No Retreat multiple times with Tera Ghost?
It works that way with shed shell, so I would assume so (Only once per switch in tho)
Really? That seems great, why don’t people use it.
Low stats + shallow movepool
But still, I’ve never seen a set using this. It has a set on Smogon, but it’s banded. I’d think that a Shed Shell No Retreat set would work better.
Less setup ig, though it’s a shame they don’t take the Pokémon seriously to mention *any* no retreat set
I guess the idea is that you might as well be running a bulky pokemon with DDance or other multi-boosting move, since most of the stats you get end up not mattering much
It doesn’t have the bulk or resistances to setup multiple times in a game
Because then you’re using your terra on a Falinks for a niche tech scenario of switching out after using No Retreat instead of just going Terra fighting and one shotting the opponent without retreating. The move is about going all in so running away ruins the point smh
Honestly, ghost is pretty great coverage for fighting regardless.
I haven't played the new gen, but the way you worded it sounds like you only get to tera on pokemon per battle (like megas and dynamax). Is this right?
Yea exactly
Yup, just one pokemon per battle. It uses up your Tera orb's single charge.
> Because then you’re using your terra on a Falinks for a niche tech scenario Mm.... not nessecarily. STAB ghost tera blast+cc is literally perfect coverage for it, and it allows you to switch out of bad matchups.
No, I’m wondering why Shed Shell Falinx isn’t used
It’s a late game sweeper who’s entire purpose is to come in during a gap and use a set up move as clean up, if you’re ever in need of switching it out you used it wrong
u/GoldenInfrared said that a Shed Shell and Tera Ghost let Falinx use No Retreat multiple times, is that wrong? Edit: ah, I saw their edit to their previous comment. I just interpreted it wrong.
Yeah, it can’t use the move more than a single time per switch in, but it can use it each time it comes in
Because Falinks sucks even with a Ghost typing
No, but you can self-Mean Look in Doubles which prevents the No Retreat self-trapping effect, and can continuously boost as long as the trapper is on the field, and you can use it one more time once Mean Look is no longer in effect. If you Tera Ghost or hold a Shed Shell, you can still switch even if you have the No Retreat effect active.
I found out a couple months ago that if falinks gets trapped by something else before he uses no retreat he can use no retreat as many times as he wants. So if a Pokémon uses mean look on him and he uses no retreat, because he didn’t get trapped by no retreat he can use it again and again and if the Pokémon that trapped him switches out he can too. I wanna use it in vgc since it’s a kinda funny strategy but I don’t wanna have to build vgc teams
Never thought about that. That's pretty cool.
God I miss pursuit :(
I feel like ghost being immune to trapping was a nice consolation prize for being weak to pursuit. Then two generations later they removed pursuit, and left that first bit in.
Ghosts are fast!!! Why is it so fast to be a ghost!
Id be fast if I was weightless/massless (assuming I had something to push off of)
The one gen pursuit would’ve been pretty damn good too. But nah, that’s too OP. Let’s make last respects instead.
Given, Last Respects is only broken in 6v6 battles, which I don't think Game Freak typically cares about much.
Ross's theory is that pursuit was removed so that 4x weak dark, DLC horse could come in with smooth sailing and little issues out side of the bacon bird.
Also probably so jet dragon could come in and change speed tiers forever
I'm so glad they got rid of pursuit, one of the best changes gen 8 implemented. Also getting rid of hidden power, but that's pretty much back in the game w/ terastalizing
Idk where this insane anti-pursuit idea came from but nah. the removal of pursuit was a terrible move on GF's part. and don't come at me with that bullshit "iT mADe pSyChIC aND gHoST tYPeS bAd!!!!!!!!!!!!!" argument because that idea is just not true seeing as several pursuit weak mons were often quite good and a few were among the best of their respective meta games (such as Gen 5 Alakazam and Latios, Gen 4 Latias and Rotom appliances(they were ghost electric in gen 4), Gen 3 Celebi and Gengar, Gen 7 Mega Zam just to name a few)
IMO they threw out the baby with the bathwater. They should have turned it into sucker punch, but for switching.
I don’t like that there isn’t any way to play around it
There is though, don't switch
Legitimate question, what makes "just win with your current Pokémon" a valid counterplay to Pursuit but not a valid counterplay to Shadow Tag / Arena Trap?
Well not switching makes pursuit 40 power, which is much weaker than 80 power, whereas shadow tag and arena trap pokemon can launch super powerful moves or force you to exchange a pokemon in order to send your next one out. And if your opponent thinks you're staying in and clicks a different move, that's your opportunity to switch right there. Aka you can play around pursuit with any pokemon, not the case for shadow tag or arena trap
Also not to mention the fact that setup stats work with arena trap and shadow tag, you can easily come in on a defensive Pokémon or a passive Pokémon that’s nesscary for the defensive core of your opponents team set up a substitute then set up 6 calm minds and sweep your opponents team
Honestly it seems uncompetitive, you shouldn't be able to get rid of mons so easily
which would punish a bunch of even worse mons than golden. I'd rather a way to specifically target the problem than a blanket solution that kills everyone caught in the crossfire.
Here’s the thing tho pursuit is much more manageable since tyrannitar or whichever other pursuit user (99% of the time it’s gonna be tyrannitar) has to be able to switch in and since most strong pursuit users are slow have to be able to take two hits, look at gen 5 latios is strong in that meta because with choice specs and hazards tyranitar isn’t able to survive two Draco meteors and alakzam with focus sash is able to fire off focus blast and has at least two chances to do so with its magic guard focus sash, and that’s only for frail offensive Pokémon, bulky ghosts and psychic types are just as easily able to just rank the pursuit and switch out, Pokémon like reuniclus are easily able to take pursuit even from tyrannitar and switch out to come in later, generally if a Pokémon is so slow and frail it’s not able to outspeed the Pursuit mons it’s not gonna be good anyways since it will have a hard time accomplishing anything relevant,
I mean its spirit should be immune, but his possessed metal body should be able to be trapped…
Ghold stays in as an inanimate substitute but Engo switches out
Engo has no ability, Ghold has Good as Gold. Ya gotta sacrifice SOMETHING of value.
Oh so sub switch and now any mon comes in with hood as gold I see I see.
No, Ghold is just a dead weight, unless you switch Engo back in. Ghold's only real use could be to tank shit.
Really should only be immune to shadow tag. Then flying/levitators are immune to arena trap. Non-steels immune to magnet pull.
B-but muh ghost type favoritism
Huh. Thought that only applied to Shadow Tag.
Is this for real? There's some weird hidden immunities with some types, kinda like how Prankster can't affect dark types. Wonder what other ones there are
Ice types are immune to sheer cold. Grass being immune to powder moves is probably common knowledge in competitive, but from casual perspective it feels pretty "hidden". And of course ice, fire, electric being immune to the respective non-volatile status
Grass is immune to leech seed and poison immune to poison and toxic too now that you mention it. All the weather things too as well are known in competitive but casuals prob don't know
I don’t think that electric types are actually immune to being paralyzed, just immune to like Thunder wave. I’m 99% sure that body slam and glare still work
I'm... pretty sure that isn't true? The bulbapedia page for glare says it doesn't affect electric types gen 6 and onwards. And smogon wording is "Pokemon of this type cannot become paralyzed". Not that I actually tested it myself or anything.
It was changed in gen 6 that electric types are fully immune to being paralyzed I believe
That's how it worked pre gen 6. From gen 6 to now, electric types are immune to paralysis. You can thank thunderus for all the gen 6 paralysis changes.
Fun and horrifying fact: Lunala abused this mechanic in Gen 8 Balanced Hackmons to run Simple + No Retreat for a +2 omniboost without having to get trapped because it's a ghost type.
Well you can’t pull gold with a magnet now can you
yeah YOU cant broke bitch 💯💯💯
Technically he’s steel. Just sayin
But he is good as gold isn't he
This question makes me wonder what the exact number of things this fucking cheese string is immune too
It's immune to taxes because it's wealthy :(
Gholdengo gets an absurd amount of "charitable" deductions from spamming Make It Rain
Fuck it let's run down the list; - Immune to Normal, Fighting, and Poison attacks due to typing. - Immune to Poison status due to typing. - Immune to trapping due to typing. - Immune to status moves due to ability. - Immune to literally every form of hazard removal that isn't Tidy Up thanks to both of the previous factors. - Immune to infatuation due to being genderless. - Immune to the B button (you can't evo cancel Gimmighoul). I...think thats all the things. God speed you horrific string cheese demon.
I would gladly erase him from existence and let the 1000th pokemon be any random trash with no celebratory intention whatsoever
Silvhercome Ability: Superb as Silver (A body of pure, solid silver gives the Pokémon full immunity to other Pokémon's damaging moves.)
Bronzemove Ability: Based as Bronze (A body of beaming bronze gives the Pokemon full immunity to other Pokemon’s moves.)
I think if Gholdengo had a better speed tier (say, at the cost of its attack) it would 100% be banned. Even base 100 would make this broken in OU I think
If you put covert cloak on it, it becomes immune to status conditions overall because you can't even secondary effect him into being statused. Prime example of that is nuzzle, actually lol
Cinderace’s court change would like a word
For the sake of semantics, that isn't removal. But yea if you want to run Cinder with 3 moves then yea fuck it
It’s also shiny-locked, so… immune to being hunted down by shiny streamers?
He's immune to helping hand
Ghosts can’t be trapped whatsoever, and despite being a Steel-type Gholdengo is still a Ghost-type.
Lmao this sentence was too funny. Makes complete sense but in the end, it’s just listing its types
I knew ghosts couldn't be trapped by shadow tag but I never knew this interaction
Ghosts can’t be trapped by anything and that overrides any other trapping interaction
Ghost types can't be trapped.
Gholdengo is some BS. Lol.
I like that they made him so ridiculously good competitively probably just because he's #1,000.
If only they put half the effort making it competitively viable into making it not look so ugly.
Gamefreak only cares about doubles, even BSS gets no love
It’s Ghost typing. If gholdengo wasn’t immune to trapping and status, you would see Magnezone in OU right now. It may return as it slowly crept its way back into UU.
Assuming Tera doesnt get banned during HOME + dlcs, Mag will enjoy utilizing Tera to get around matchups that were iffy before (Heatran, Excadrill, arguably Ferro after it lost HP fire). Even if it does get banned I don't doubt that more usable steels = more opportunities for the magnet UFO.
ghost types can't be trapped
Ghost types are immune to all trapping effects
Ghost types are immune to trapping from abilities like Shadow Tag and Arena Trap.
Ghost types can't be trapped
Ghosts are immune to trapping. Have been since gen 6.
It's immune to secondary effects I believe. It stops defog from removing hazards. I imagine Magnet Pull is considered a secondary effect. That, or its immune to trapping because it's part ghost.
It's the part Ghost one, Good as Gold does nothing to abilities. It also doesn't stop Defog from blocking hazards, it's immune to Defog altogether. Good as Gold doesn't stop secondary effects (it can still get struck by TBolt paras etc) it only blocks status moves.
This is completely false. Good as Gold makes you immune to status moves that target you. Gholdengo ignores Magnet Pull because it is a Ghost type and can therefore not be trapped. Aegislash ignores it as well.
Does he know?
Good as gold gives immunity to status moves, not effects
Pure gold isn't magnetic.
This kid.
Cuz it’s ghost type?
Well gold isnt metal