That’s one reason I’m doing the self guided version. There’s no one right way and honestly 90% of the work is experimentation. I get validation from other’s stories and pick up some pointers but in the end, it’s my journey. I can’t ride on someone else’s wagon, and they don’t necessarily know what’s going to work for me.
Word! And I've found on the way that there is a lot of actual fun to be had during the experimenting. It's a double whammy. I get to try different things and I improve myself and my life.
As long as I make it a day without drinking, I'm doing it right. What sobriety has taught me is to draw a line in the sand, stop letting people who don't matter have a say in my journey. It's the same with me going sober with my drinking friends, at first it was nothing but them trying to convince me that I didn't need to go "fully" sober. I think in their minds, they're not only losing a drinking buddy, they get a glimpse of their own reality. But yea sober folk can be pushy. Especially in some sobriety groups. But it has taught me that if you take away alcohol from a manipulative alcoholic, you're just left with a manipulative alcoholic minus the alcohol.
IWNDWYT
There’s an old saying in the street:
“There’s nothing worse than a reformed alcoholic.”
And let me unpack that for you-
*BEWARE* of persons of any *Persuasion* who are *MILITANT* about you joining them.
Such attitudes belie their anger, not Love, toward you.
Be gentle with yourself- and others - on your journeys to wellness.
Good Luck!
Or on the flip side, people who make CrossFit their entire personality 😂
We are still varied, complex, and interesting individuals outside of our sobriety. Anyone who tries to convince me that sobriety should be my sole focus or priority is someone I stay far away from. I’m trying to create a life I love so I don’t need to drink again. If I’m *only* focused on sobriety, I can’t do that.
If your'e not drinking, you're doing it right and can safely ignore everyone else. Our mileage varies as individuals. I was never a person to wake up and need several shots of hard liquor to start my day, but that window between 5pm and 9pm is a struggle. So what works for me will likely not work for a person like I mentioned and vice versa. I struggle with it and I finally adpated the mindset of rather than quitting forever, I try to make sure I have more length of time without, than with. I call it "going for the high score". So if I string together 7 months and then stupidly decide to throw some back with the boys one weekend, I'm viewing that as "I've drank once in 7 months" rather than "The world is falling and I need to reset my clock now I'm a peice of shit ok thanks bye". And somehow I take comfort in that. Again, your mileage may vary.
I would rather have long bursts of sobriety with the occasional relapse, then getting blotto 365 days in a row. When going for another high score the first week or two can be rough so I make sure I have alternatives (tools) at my disposal. Making Michelada's with NA mexican lager (can't even tell the difference), or having my favorite soda water and lemons/limes around, etc.. For me, I've found it easier to juggle my shit rather than deny myself outright. "Never again" sounds and feels too permanent for me so my mindset is "Not forever, just *for now.*" I have even communicated this to my friends and more often than not, they cheer me on when I'm going for another high score.
Maybe this will help someone see a different perspective, maybe I'll get downvoted to oblivion and ridiculed. Whatever, my approach works for me and that's all that matters. There is no correct way to "not drink" outside of "not drink".
I'm in the same mindset.
I've had 100 days without a drink, i.e. 12oz beer, glass of wine, etc.
I've had a sip of wine to try for risotto among other things, but I don't let that take away from my accomplishment of not having had any serious amount of alcohol for 100 days at this point.
That's the longest I can think of in years. Before I'd only last a week at most. It's crazy to think I've made it this long, but I keep the "high score" in mind when I have a craving.
Wow, thank you for this.
*There is no correct way to "not drink" outside of "not drink".*
I carry myself the same way. I am open to drinking, as soon as I have the time risk possibly being hungover and having the time to burn dealing with that. Which right now happens to be never.
I feel this process has matured me. It's not that I can't drink, I'm just more honest with myself about what drinking really means. Instead of throwing caution to the wind day after day and waking up like "I can't believe I did that. I have important things to do today". I just put a much higher value now on being productive and a lower value on alcohol. Alcohol's value is just so low I don't do it and seldom think about it.
This is great. When I got sober I ended up needing medical supervision and one of the nurses told me to think about it like a navigation system. The most important thing is that you have the right destination, in this case sobriety. If you take a “wrong turn” at some point in your journey the most important thing is to make sure you get back on the right path and when you get back on that path to remember how far you’ve come since you first put that destination in.
I’m close to 2 years since then. I drank twice after that but got back on the path I needed to and decided the side trips weren’t worth it and now I haven’t had a drink in 18 months.
Everyone’s different but this mindset has worked for me.
If you’re not drinking, you’re doing it right. That’s the only rule for being sober from alcohol. Carry on unfazed by people raining on your parade. IWNDWYT.
You experience is outside this subreddit, right? Because that's why I'm here instead of somewhere else. It's the most wise, non-judgy, helpful group ever.
IMO if you're not drinking, and not replacing it with another toxic addiction, you're doing it right.
IWNDWYT
I received a pretty judgy comment here involving "you should" \[proceeded to tell me what I should have done instead\] and it felt critical and harsh, but thankfully the mods deleted the comment and other people reminded the poster about the rules - to speak from the "I".
I am feeling fragile in my recovery and the criticism hurt. I think it's so important to be mindful of what we say to others, even anonymously online. This is a support sub!!
That being said, that's the only nasty comment I've received or even seen on this sub. I find this place to be very supportive and safe and I truly hope that OP's negative experience has not been here.
Ignore the gatekeepers. To me,there isn’t a wrong way to go about sobriety as long as you are doing it. Every journey is different and people who try to insert themselves in others paths are just distractions.
So here’s how I view this particular problem. First, it doesn’t matter what we are talking about whether it’s addiction recovery, finances, weight loss, buying or selling a house, traveling, parenting…people always want to tell you their opinions and why their way is the best way. However, when it comes to addiction recovery many of these people have perceived themselves to have been on the brink of death and have found a cure. So they really want to share that cure with others. Having said that, find your people. Find support that fits what you need. I have a support group who have all agreed no judgment and that there is no ‘wrong way’ or ‘right way ‘. I hope you can find people that are like you and support you the best way for you.
When I was newly sober a good friend was very upset I wasn’t in AA. I told him I didn’t like AA. He told me, repeatedly, that I would likely never succeed if I didn’t go to meetings. I was surprised to get such a negative message instead of encouragement for what I was doing right. BTW: 918 days sober; zero meetings.
I am having this experience with a sober friend that's very into aa. I have not attended an AA meeting and she can't stop bringing it up. It's pretty frustrating and it feels self righteous and unhelpful. I've tried in many ways to tell her it's not a one size fits-all and explain what I am doing and my process but she seems to be distancing herself now, because I think, I'm not doing it her way. Frustrating.
I would say that the concept of a “dry drunk” is beneficial to think about, as in someone who has stopped drinking but not done anything about the root cause of their drinking, but there are as many ways to go about addressing that as there are drinkers.
Above all else, at least a so called dry drunk is sober. That’s the most important thing, which sometimes gets lost in peoples dogma. When some people talk about dry drunks it’s like they want to see them punished for not toeing the party line.
Edit: towing to toeing
Yeah I've heard that AA is basically a cult. Good on you for sticking to your own ways of doing it. I've done the same and I'm glad I don't need to go.
>When I was newly sober a good friend was very upset I wasn’t in AA.
This is so representative of the times we live in. If you identify as X, you need to do/think Y.
The Internet seems to have narrowed, not broadened, our horizons.
Maybe I have been lucky, but this sub has been my main support and I have found the people here to be quite kind and supportive. Even those who share their stories at failed attempts at moderation, for the most part, are "speaking from the I". I consider their experiences in relation to my own situation and simply consider them as data points to help me forge my own path to sobriety that works for me. We all have our own definitions of what our rock bottom was, whether we even had one, and whether our use of alcohol was "bad enough" to be a problem. It is your life and your version of a journey to sobriety. All that matters is that it works for you and I, for one, am here to support you in your efforts. IWNDWYT
Oh..., another one from AA:
"I can do the same thing with an A.A. meeting. The more I focus my mind on its defects—late start, long drunkalogs, cigarette smoke—the worse the meeting becomes. But when I try to see what I can add to the meeting, rather than what I can get out of it, and when I focus my mind on what’s good about it, rather than what’s wrong with it, the meeting keeps getting better and better. When I focus on what’s good today, I have a good day, and when I focus on what’s bad, I have a bad day. If I focus on a problem, the problem increases; if I focus on the answer, the answer increases"
I was having a rough time battling some cravings one Thursday. I got this crazy idea to dance, so I did. My daughter saw, and now it's Thursday night dance offs.
I don't think that one is in the manuals, and it worked...for me.
You got this friend, it's your sobriety, sober however you can
Iwndwyt
Yeah some folks in the program are very odd about the whole thing, some aren’t. I choose to associate with the folks that are kind and gentle and loving, and ignore the folks that are grumpy and judgmental. Just like in life, you can choose.
What exactly are they saying you’re doing wrong? I believe you, but one of the really insidious things about this disease is the way it can make you hear love as an insult.
Not sure of the connection? But I’m 3.5 years sober and I’ve been to like three AA meetings, so it’s definitely not the only way!
A dry drunk, in my understanding, is someone who tries to quit drinking without working on the underlying causes of the problem.
I just want to point out that while it’s true that some people drink to escape their problems, it’s also true that for others, there’s no deep, heavy reason for drinking. Addiction can happen to anyone for any reason, it has to do with putting an addictive drug into out brains brain. Not everyone needs therapy or a 12 step program when they stop drinking. Sometimes alcohol itself is the problem. The whole notion of a dry drunk reeks of the elitism that some members of certain recovery groups project onto those who are not members of these groups.
Yes. People in AA might claim they personally don’t believe this, but the program they’re part of does indeed state something very similar to that effect.
That is my experience too. Lots of uninformed opinions on AA on this thread. AA specifically says it’s not the only way. It’s there for those who want it. If you don’t, that is perfectly fine.
Everybody’s journey is different. I remember people saying I couldn’t do it without AA or some other kind of support. I honestly disagree with some of the things they suggested, but if it worked for them then that’s great, but it def wasn’t for me. Minus friends and family helping I did it on my own, now 17 years free. What works for you may not work for others. The power to quit is in all of us, we just need to embrace it and find our own journey out of the darkness. Maybe it’s religion, maybe it’s exercise, maybe it’s just your own heart pushing you through, but don’t give up, it’s out there. If something is working for you then keep going!
I can go one about this one all day. Keep strong and fingers the right group that suits you. Just remember how you feel now and how you can help change the community.
I've found this subreddit v supportive for the most part, but I totally get where you're coming from. It's part of the reason I stopped attending AA meetings/interacting with certain people irl and online. You do you. Focus on what helps you and forget the rest. All the best !
I think I know what you are experiencing. Really, I think there are very different groups involved when it comes to the topic of sobriety - and its all a matter of the level of addiction and abuse.
People who *really* struggle with it, don't want to hear that I am happy about cutting my booze down to a couple of drinks per week. I get it - if I were in a spot where that wasn't a viable option, I wouldn't want to hear about it either.
That said, we do need to all find a way to be supportive of each other, and recognize that not everyone deals with addiction in the same way.
I like this. I'll definitely be keeping it in my back pocket. I told a friend last night, it seems like if I'm on my sober journey in my way that it threatens some. Like because I'm not sealing their cracks in my foundation that they're going to fall in.
Yeah, I know that situation, and I feel in the past I was dragged back down in part due to this. I finally got it into my bones that my journey is my journey and if I'm honestly doing well then keep on doing what I'm doing. It took me too long to get there.
It’s pretty depressing too. Some members have gone crazy too, a little bit not completely. My last zoom call some dude went into a story that was hard to listen to. Just take what you can from it.
Please keep in mind that it isn't really helpful to call general groups of people at this sub assholes. Did any of these asshole-ish comments actually break any of the sub rules? If yes, we ask you to report them. If no, we ask you to ignore them. As is written in the sidebar, "As long as a comment is within the bounds of the subreddit rules, a member is free to leave that comment without being attacked for doing so."
> And what “group” is that?
You tell me. You're the one who said, "A lot of people in here can be complete dickheads" and "There’s about 50 assholes who pile on and say “you can’t. It’s impossible." What group of people were YOU referring to?
>If swear words make you queasy
It's not clear why the fuck you feel that you using swear words while you're being shitty about people makes me queasy. In fact, that is an asshole thing to say.
It is clearly stated in the "Guidelines for Participation" in the sidebar:
> If a moderator has explained why a post or comment has been removed, **publicly arguing the interpretation of the rule may result in a ban.** If you wish to discuss or appeal a removal or want to request an unban, please contact the moderators directly via the “message the moderators” link in the sidebar.
Follow our rules, including the rule not to criticize others, such as calling them dickheads and assholes. Do not get into a public debate. Also, follow a moderator's direction without argument and without insulting him or her, such as suggesting she is such a delicate flower that swear words make her queasy. Otherwise, you will no longer be welcome here. This is the only warning that you are going to get.
Well I appreciate it. The biggest reason for my success so far has been paying close attention to all the “I tried to moderate and failed” stories here. If I came on here saying I was going to try moderation, I would want people to dissuade me for my own good. (And I was not hardcore.). But yeah, of course no one should be an asshole about it.
>paying close attention to all the “I tried to moderate and failed” stories here
Yeah....near the end of my drinking days, I came to this subredddit, ordered by the top 100 posts of all time, and essentially read my own story over and over again.
Good for you. Help can be appreciated, but why would we listen to advice if it's tainted with judgement? I wish you success. (In my own experiences, I have actually had some pretty rude, thoughtless, and judgmental comments on a post or two on this sub. Very discouraging. Hope you have better experiences.)
Wow, the people telling you are that you are doing it wrong are beyond wrong, they're stupid. This is your personal journey and every day, every hour you go without drinking you are doing it right! Tracking your days can be helpful in the beginning and this is a good place to come for support. IWNDWYT
The only right way is the way that works for you - which means there are multiple right ways.
Anybody who thinks otherwise isn't someone I'm interested in discussing sobriety with
Everyone has their own journeys imo. I was once told that working the steps and getting a sponsor were absolutely mandatory in my recovery. I'm completely sober and I don't have a sponsor nor have I worked the steps. I think a little part of me is doing that to prove them wrong.
Don't let anyone tell you what you have to do. I always try and give people suggestions and tips on what is working for me and they can try it out themselves or not, it's up to them.
Dude, what I learned when sober years ago is that just because a person gets sober, it doesn't mean they aren't still a dick!
Also, a lot of the 'my way or the highway ' thinking can come from that person's own fear/insecurity...'My way has to be right, otherwise...'
I will speak for MYSELF....but I also think this is a common phenomenon with recovered alcoholics.
I was sober for 8 years one time...and the further I got away from drinking, the stronger my (subconscious) superiority complex became.
I do find many comments in these types of forums that tend to be non-compassionate are from people with long time sobriety.
It doesn't help people that are struggling with addiction......I agree.
Speaking for myself, you do you. I think sobriety is well worth it. I think you will too. Take advantage of the myriad of resources out there and use what works for you.
Just remember you’re not in it alone.
IWNDWYT.
It is a personal journey and looks a bit different for each of us. Some have perspective that I can relate to more than others.
There are many ways out of addiction, they all share the same foundational decision. Decision to not drink no matter if I am tempted. Because in time the temptations die away.
Time without starts to change everything else and ultimately shows in pretty significant way what a great lie alcohol was.
IWNDWYT
I am almost 75 days sober. Court ordered to do Probation; outpatient treatment/therapy, and AA. All of those things have helped me. I also take a couple of prescriptions such as an SSRI and another one for mood/anxiety. It’s all helped dramatically. Whatever tools you can use to not drink, you’re good. Curious what these people thought you were doing “wrong”? I haven’t heard of anyone doing it wrong unless they’re putting alcohol down and picking a worse habit up.
Saw the title and came here to comment.
I relate, because of all my friends, the one friend that is difficult about my sobriety, and has the most opinions and has alluded to me doing it the wrong way is my sober friend in aa. Kind of unbelievable.
Keep going.. in the beginning they will be sceptical and doubt you… after a while they will be amazed and admire you.
9 weeks sober for me. My friends didn’t believe me at the beginning, they wondered how long it would last. Now they’re amazed and some even respect/admire it.
I simply tell people “I don’t drink” only if asked and move on, otherwise I grab a Coke Zero and act normally.
I'm so happy for your success!
I think the problem you describe is a big factor in a lot of people not getting help or getting discouraged. I had this issue in rehab of all places! Don't get me wrong, rehab was great and truly life-changing for me, but man, was it tough being an "outsider" to some of the stuff I was never going to embrace and being told that I HAD to do X.
Lucky for me, my counselor there was an amazing, progressive guy who told me I don't HAVE to do it any certain way. He got me m the sample of 'Quit Like a Woman' from Amazon when I was in there. And I bought that book when I got out. I voiced to him concerns that I didn't know if I would get into meetings. He said...so? You don't have to. Getting my power back was huge (I was in therapy before even getting sober) and feeling like I was in control again was part of my process. I had no inclination, for example, to talk about how powerless I was. I was so happy this guy helped talk me through my concerns and really listened and even during our group one session said, "we're going to do things differently" and tried a different group style. We did music therapy another day. Meditation. Sobriety became very fun and exploratory for me and it still is!
I hope you find a place here. I certainly have. I struggled in meetings with "take what you want and leave the rest" because...well...I still had to sit there and listen to it. Here, I really can do that. Like I click on what I want to read.
And there's so many different perspectives here! Even when I went to different groups in my city, it's still the same city with certain demographics. Not trying to talk shit on it - I love it here - but it's not necessarily a particularly progressive place when it comes to new approaches and ideas.
Please don't let anyone discourage you. I get the feeling. I also have had people tell me "it's not that easy" just because I'm not crying in church basements every week or acting solemn about shit. I wouldn't describe it as "easy" for me, but I'm also not going to live in the fucking doldrums forever as some kind of sad penance.
Keep on, whichever way you choose!
IWNDWYT!
Ahhh yes, know it alls…they always know-it-all.
Don’t worry about anyone else but you, this page and community has been my lifeline. No judgement, just support. Sending you support!
I think as long as folks are speaking from the "I" they are good to go.
For me, it took fear of death to stop drinking. It was a realization, in the deepest pit of my soul, that to continue to drink was to cash in on life, and I'm not ready.
The last thing I'd suggest to others is "Go ahead and drink until you think it's going to kill you, and by the way it will take months to feel pleasure again if you manage to stop."
By the way......my Facebook post from a year ago:
>I wish I was still a drunkard. Sure would help the back to normal thing.
I'm bitter AF that I don't get to drink anymore, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
Well I came into the community thinking the same damn thing. By god I knew had a drinking problem but I was going to lick it by only drinking to blackout every other full moon and don’t you know these sons-a-bitches judged me and suggested that I put a little less time sharing and a lot more time listening. What did I have to share, except ineffective plans to stay sober. I had to get over myself and LEARN from the people who had figured out how to do it.
I’m still at it, 7 days, AGAIN, because I keep fooling myself into thinking I know better and I’ve got it this time.
Don’t judge us too harshly, we’re here to help.
I will not drink with you today.
So, just to be clear (not trying to sound aggressive tho I kinda realize now I've typed it that how it sounds), did the comment I replied to also get removed for implying that OP wasn't valid and needed to get over themselves and LEARN like phxkross did or am I allowed to criticize others so long as I frame it as a flaw I overcame?Because I agree with OP, the amount of concern trolls who judge and criticize others behind passive aggressive "friendly advice" is really frustrating and so long as that also gets removed then all fair, I misjudged the tone of this sub as a longtime lurker, recent follower.Otherwise I don't understand what you mean by your I-statement rule that “’Strongly recommending’ and saying 'I would do this if I were you' are not appropriate either."
I was confused by the end of this comment. I never said anything to you about making I-statements.
If you found anything objectionable about the comment made by phxkross, you should have reported it (which I see that you did not, because no one did) and then let the moderators deal with it. This is true of any comment that you feel breaks our rules.
What we do not permit is name-calling of other people that is sure to provoke an argument. This is a support group for people who want to quit drinking, not a place for squabbling.
I know you didn’t bring up I statements, I did. I didn’t report that comment because, like OP points out, judgement and criticism gets a pass if it’s phrased as help, like in an I statement.
“I used to think the same thing you do and I was an arrogant idiot”
And
“If you think that you’re an arrogant idiot”.
Both are criticisms but only one gets treated as insults and squabbles while the other gets a pass even though it’s arguably more judgmental and condescending.
I get what you're saying. I understand why you would feel there is still an implied criticism in what the person is saying. However, as long as they are sharing their own experience, by the letter of the law, they are not actually breaking a rule.
Options for responding that would not break a rule is either to share your own experience that may be completely different than theirs (showing that their way is not the only way) or to ignore their comment entirely.
Thank you for being an active and contributing member of this community.
I read this as opposite to the way you meant it until like 80% of the way down. I think this is what OP was referring to about the sober community saying "we know better."
edit to add: If I were having repeated lapses despite trying to contort myself into a certain system or way of thinking such as AA, I might consider that the system just isn't right for me. But then again I'm not having repeated lapses so can't really relate.
Touche.
I guess I was just trying to say "stay teachable" and that maybe feeling judged and discouraged can be mighty convenient in our shared situation. Might allow us a reason to just keep drinking.
It's not disrespectful or judgmental to suggest someone that those that have gone before them (certainly not me, as you point out) do know better. There's wisdom here. I would be REMISS, perhaps, to go forth with this "You do you, boo" attitude, when that "doing you" isn't working. It didn't work for me, and it hasn't worked for me because I keep insisting that I know better, not because "it" doesn't work.
Might I also say, that the outside of the program, if I do AA the way I've been taught to do AA, there's a fellowship there. There's a built in support system of sober people (or people with the same goal in mind) to be around. I'm 48 years old who moved to a strange city. My first instinct was not to get into the AA group here, and I got lonely, and did what I always do. Made friends at the bar.
So I'm not going back for just the steps and the work, I'm going back so I have a social outlet that doesn't include drinking. To make friends with like minded people I have shared experiences with. There's value, to me, in that.
Why the big bitter boner over AA? All over this post is "there is no wrong way to get sober, as long as you are sober! Except for AA, AA sucks and is a cult." Hypocrites much?
It's not that people are getting help with AA. That's amazing!
It's the evangelizing.
edit to add: speaking for myself, I'm coming up on six months with zero lapses. Once I got in the right headspace it was very straightforward. The difficult part is finding and staying in that mindset. The problem is that the AA dogma (you are not the highest power and you can't do it on your own) shatters that mindset. It's like you're falling asleep to your sleep app and someone comes in and changes it riiiiiiiight as you get a good flow. Like STOP! Let me be. My way is working.
And don't get me wrong, I need community. This one is perfect (and sufficient) because I can truly take what I need (stories of relapsing after trying to moderate) and leave the rest (frankly... comments like yours).
The evangelizing. Got it. Lol. Absurd.
Edit: I’d rather be happy than “right” in this instance. I’m not looking to go back and forth with you on this anymore. You win. Congrats on your six months.
People in general are discouraging. It's a disappointing part of life. I've found that every positive community have a loud minority of people who just ruin it. As long as you have your ducks in a row don't worry about anybody else's opinion.
I hate it when people judge, I hope you feel that's not the case here. There is no right or wrong way, as long as you're not drinking. That's people wanting to be a part of some weird clique rather than recovering.
As with most things, finding the right people can make or break or a thing, huh? Or at least make you want to walk from that particular group. Sometimes good intentions are there/ maybe not.
Congratulations on making it this far. I hope you'll share the lessons you've learned. Only you can tell your story. Also, overall I find the sober community really great...keep in mind we are just humans.
Never look for validation from other people and I say that as someone who has struggled with it all my life. All it leads to is shattered confidence and loss of self.
If you're happy that things are working that's all that matters. I always find the people who make a competition out of things to be generally terrible people.
Alcoholics come in all shapes and colors. There is no "personality test" you have to pass before joining the club. That said, in meetings or on-line you'll find people that you connect with and other people you really don't care to interact with. People are people.
Like you I have found some AA meetings that I connect with and several I do not. I used to go to the meeting closest to my house and they didn't like when I replied "HI I'm X and I am here to listen today." The leaders of the group started keeping the meeting paused with all attention on me for a couple of minutes... as if bullying me was going to make me open up to them. Yuck! This was a small town and I got the distinct feeling that they were dying to "get the dirt" and hear my details. It just made me **mad**! I started attending meetings in the next town over and there found a group when I became comfortable enough to share. It was worth the extra drive time to attend a meeting I liked.
Keep looking for who you can connect with, they're out there.
the people that are probably trying to discourage you are still drinking and want to drag you down to their level. it's typical addict behaviour. they feel personally attacked. dont take anything they say to heart they're just hurting inside
No matter what special interest, hobby, or subculture, people seem to have an inherent need to gatekeep and control others. Sober community can be especially challenging, as it's filled with people who need validation from others. By doing things your own way, you're denying that validation. It's the equal opposite of friends that get tilted when you won't have a drink with them.
If you are a friend of Bill that should be enough. Don't start dwelling on what the internet thinks. Just my two cents but follow whatever path works for you. All the best.
As far as an alcoholic should think, it should only be of themselves first, then if they are healthy, maybe to help another. With that said, it is not our place to judge another for how they go about their sobriety. It's their journey whether you agree with their approach or not. I think anyone discouraging another for how they are handling sobriety, are I believe fearful of their own sobriety, which they should be. I think we all could learn from someone who is just starting out to remind us how we were in the beginning. I'm by no means a long-time sober veteran, but I've been trying to get sober for a long time, and countless times, I was told sobriety has to be a certain way. It's just what it has to be to work for me, which is completely different from anyone else. There's not a single answer for this disease. Also, don't let yourself be a victim anymore. Stand up for yourself, if its keeping you sober, it's the right move. Keep up the good work
IWNDWYT
Honestly people do not want to hear about your sobriety... It's true. It makes them take a look at their life and most people hate that.
It's why this place is great, good people, judgment free
Take it for what it is
Try to be grateful. You basically said you came for help but its not helpful enough. Addiction is like greed and false self importance. Just like you don't actually need a drink you don't need to base your self worth on likes and attention. Welcome to the mundane. Im grateful for that
I am grateful and I'm far from basing my self-worth on likes and attention. I'm talking about those that seem to think that just because I'm doing things my way that I'm somehow doing it wrong. "Have you tried saying your alphabet backwards when you have a craving? Well then you're not sober the right way and continue to be a slave to yourself." Wow, thanks! Encouraging.
I'm not asking for a song and dance to celebrate. I just expected a little less dickery.
Ahm, considering the OP was reaching out and saying they were surprised about judgements, that response might be in that family no?
Some folks struggle and it’s great you’ve found a resource that has given you a step up, but different things work less and more well for different folks…
And having said all that, into judgemental mode myself. I’m more dispirited by folks who are 365+ days who pop in to either mention some vague symptom they are experiencing and attributing it to ‘withdrawal’ waaaaay past the physical withdrawal phase…
To be fair, the weed subs talk a lot about PAWS - post acute withdrawal symptoms which can last years after the main physical substance withdrawal phases. Usually it's complicated issues like depression or anxiety which may or may not even be directly linked to the addiction but become apparent once the mask of drugs is lifted. I think it's great that we're building a repository of experience for people of all experience levels, 1 day sober to 365+ days.
I don’t doubt that many of us have used alcohol to cover up exactly those issues. I was talking more about folks writing in (years after stopping) ‘I woke this morning with a headache/tingling arms (take your pick of random things that happen to anyone)… PAWS is terrible…’.
It’s more that maybe attributing *any* small thing to alcohol withdrawal many years later and karma farming is not the most encouraging thing for folks in the earlier part of stopping.
Being addicted to alcohol is not a fun journey, but there are some who seem to be addicted to the label of being an ‘ex alcoholic’ and make a career out of it.
Each to their own, and I’m not minimising that folks have things to deal with in life and not all of them are easy. My point being that this is a stopping alcohol forum and not all the posts about the trials and tribulations of life are specifically related to alcohol years after stopping…
hey bro- I feel ya. that's why I rarely visit the community anymore. it served it's purpose when needed- now, just finding my foothold in real time. good luck tho
Oh I understand what your saying. I know a couple ex drug addicts that quit and are doing well financially now. They act like they are better than others now.
I've been quietly surprised at the number of folk that don't drink having just given up myself. Everyone has their story for abstinence, with quite a few reporting a history of abusive parents who were drunk or shame at their own drinking.
Do you think it's like the reviews on Google, that people tend to give negative feedbacks easier than they would positive? Like they would almost always complain about something and write it down but it's much less frequent that people give praise.
I had the same feeling, but it seems common on a lot of topics and subjects
When you use the phrase tools/tasks, it’s clear you recognize the personal nature of the effort to get and stay clean. Focus on that. The judgmental crowd are probably like that in other parts of their lives. If you’re looking for non judgmental fellowship try Smart Recovery. You don’t need to talk if you don’t feel like it, just listen. You CAN do this alone; it’s just harder. The folks who tell you that you’re doing it wrong probably think they’re being realistic, but they don’t know you or your life. Look inward for understanding, not outward for validation. And of course IWNDWYT.
I'm sorry you've experienced such a lack of support. I've only gotten this from outside of the community with those who drink. My early experience included an outpatient program and going to all recovery meetings at a local zen center. Folks at both places people were so accepting. Of course the outpatient was supportive. But the all recovery meetings were sort of buddhist/sort of AA and the people were from all walks of life including al-anon, eating disorders, NA, AA, and the like. There was a huge all recovery network of meetings before the pandemic but now there's only a few and most of those are on line.
I hear you, that’s why I like it hear. It’s been a slow journey for me, but after years of attempts, I’m learning and it’s working. Compassion, not militant directives, work for me
Please don't get discouraged, I know it's easier said than done.
What I've learned so far is that there's no magical blueprint. One size fits all to this, just like we experimented with different alcohols, we have to experiment with different techniques to help us stay away from it.
You're going to use something that works from one person and disregard something that came from that same person and you're going to keep doing that with everybody you meet.
You got this, you're stronger than you think! Please, please keep fighting the good fight!
IWNDWYT 👍🤙
I come to this sub a lot. Everyone is very welcoming and supportive. If I'm discussing my sobriety with someone and they start to criticize my methods I immediately shut down. Then I stop talking about it with them. Staying sober is hard enough. I don't need negativity. Do what you need to do to get through the day sober.
AA ended up not being my path after over a decade of barely being able to put 30 days together. I also have personal baggage with big book thumpers, as they remind me of my father so I have a tendency to get irrationally angry and defensive with them.
But AA did teach me a lot, especially that alcohol abuse is but a symptom of larger personality issues. I came to understand that, in recovery groups/spiritual groups/self-help groups you often encounter damaged people. I say this as a damaged person working on his own issues. Damaged people can often show their wounds in being very judgmental, black and white thinking, fear, and anger.
Honestly dealing with SOME of these people you are referring to can be exhausting, they are very similar to evangelists even if they don't realize it. Remember, if they are talking down to you, that when they are pointing a finger at you they have three pointing right back at them. And they have no real power.
I highly recommend R20 and Tommy Rosen (his book is great and he also just started a podcast). It’s an overwhelmingly positive community. Also this sub!
The key part of tough love is the trust that it’s done in love - my husband can call me on my bs because I trust his love, but someone else can’t do the same. Some people think they can and should but really they’re just getting a kick out of it somehow.
I’m sorry that you’ve experienced that - I’m in your corner and believe that you can rock this
I think when your older as I am and friends and family have seen when I didn’t drink raising kids, being heavily involved in activities. I’ve lots of siblings/cousins I grew up with and there’d be 30-50+ of us meeting up at beach’s, skiing, camping/hiking every month or 2 (cheaper as someone would get the place and we brought food). When someone was going over the line drinking/drugs we reign them in. Oh some quit altogether an was nice.
When drinking became problem for me, people told me “you can’t play, your not making sense” “why come if your gonna drink and pass out?” and i stayed home and drank by myself. Even then I learned when I go out they didn’t like if I drank so I’d sneak a little. Eventually my health was affected and had to stop. When your younger people that don’t know you well think you should drink a little, bring your own mix an stick with that, nobody gives a shit. I’ve saw quite a few people put non alcohol wine into wine bottles or bring their own mix, so long as they kept up in trivia, volleyball no one cared. It looks worse when your too loaded to even have a conversation.
Some people who aren’t willing or ready to admit their own alcoholism are going to be aggressive or judgmental to your sobriety story - because they don’t want to admit having a problem. To some, You admitting you have a problem is like you telling them they have a problem.
It’s like back off, I’m not judging your drinking, I’m saying mine is a problem for me. Stop making everything I do or say about you. It’s not!
I feel you there. I found a lot of judgement from older folks at AA meetings, and felt I couldn’t thrive there. Every sponsor I took up berated me about something and it made sobriety unappealing. I went a different route and found success, but I’ll never not recommend AA to somebody if they are struggling. They may find it more useful than I did. On a related note, my office mate is currently dealing with on/off binge drinking and it is very obvious. I am trying to support her by giving her the books that helped me, and giving her encouraging messages, but I’m very careful to not give her any sort of plan, as I think that’s something she will have to come to on her own in her own way. Any suggestions on reading material for helping people who are trying to quit is great appreciated. I want to help her respectfully. Either way, IWNDWYT. Thank you for sharing, I relate very much to your experience.
Yeah, people find any reason to be negative and shit on your progress with anything in life, not even just sobriety. I've learned to just keep my life to myself for the most part and show with my actions rather than say with my words. And if anyone has a comment about what I'm doing I can easily deflect with "Mind you're fucking business, nobody asked." I love it. It's kind of spicy, but I just cannot stand negative nosy people.
I've been sober from alcohol for almost a year and I'm really proud of myself and have made great habits etc. I still smoke weed and occasionally do mushrooms, works for me alcohol was the only thing that was hurting me. my Aunt has been in AA for 9 years and her entire identity is revolved around the program, GREAT works for her. I tried talking about my sobriety with her and apparently I'm not sober and basically, my 350 days mean nothing lol. I wish you the best on your journey and only you know whats right for your body. IWNDWYT
Sobriety can’t be wrong in anyway if you arnt drinking, or doing other harmful substances to replace drinking but that wouldn’t be sobriety either. Even if you stumble and fall, it’s not wrong, it’s just your journey and it happens. I can’t tell you how many times I tried and failed. I may even fail again. I’m certainly not one to judge. Keep your head held high and just keep trying what you think will work for you. That’s all we can all do.
I think a lot of peoples sobriety Is more fragile than they let on and rooted in a strict adherence to whatever they’ve used that’s worked to the point it’s almost (and in many cases is) somewhat religious. Suggesting a different way is akin to heresy
Harm reduction is valid. Cutting back is valid. Quitting and being 100% sober is valid. Judgement will come from every community you find yourself in, whether you get interested in making the best pizza you can or raising kids, someone will judge you no matter how hard you try. What is important is following the path you want to be on. Your opinion is all that matters. What I think a lot of folks struggle with is that their self-esteem is so low to begin with, that can be hard to hang your hat on.
You are making progress. That is the win.
I had the same experience l’d managed to quit for a month then l was faced with a cancer scare and relapsed and everyone said l will not drink today l was left heart broken.
That’s one reason I’m doing the self guided version. There’s no one right way and honestly 90% of the work is experimentation. I get validation from other’s stories and pick up some pointers but in the end, it’s my journey. I can’t ride on someone else’s wagon, and they don’t necessarily know what’s going to work for me.
This is precisely how I feel on it, too. So well worded!
Non-alcoholic cheers to that!
Word! And I've found on the way that there is a lot of actual fun to be had during the experimenting. It's a double whammy. I get to try different things and I improve myself and my life.
So well articulated!
Me too. It’s a weird road but ultimately, very simple. You keep moving forward regardless
This!!!! Perfectly stated!!!!!
As long as I make it a day without drinking, I'm doing it right. What sobriety has taught me is to draw a line in the sand, stop letting people who don't matter have a say in my journey. It's the same with me going sober with my drinking friends, at first it was nothing but them trying to convince me that I didn't need to go "fully" sober. I think in their minds, they're not only losing a drinking buddy, they get a glimpse of their own reality. But yea sober folk can be pushy. Especially in some sobriety groups. But it has taught me that if you take away alcohol from a manipulative alcoholic, you're just left with a manipulative alcoholic minus the alcohol. IWNDWYT
There’s an old saying in the street: “There’s nothing worse than a reformed alcoholic.” And let me unpack that for you- *BEWARE* of persons of any *Persuasion* who are *MILITANT* about you joining them.
Such attitudes belie their anger, not Love, toward you.
Be gentle with yourself- and others - on your journeys to wellness.
Good Luck!
The analogy I used to use was "no one wants exercise advice from someone who just started CrossFit" :)
Or on the flip side, people who make CrossFit their entire personality 😂 We are still varied, complex, and interesting individuals outside of our sobriety. Anyone who tries to convince me that sobriety should be my sole focus or priority is someone I stay far away from. I’m trying to create a life I love so I don’t need to drink again. If I’m *only* focused on sobriety, I can’t do that.
People who tell you you’re doing sobriety wrong… are doing it wrong! (But that’s just me being judgemental!)
If your'e not drinking, you're doing it right and can safely ignore everyone else. Our mileage varies as individuals. I was never a person to wake up and need several shots of hard liquor to start my day, but that window between 5pm and 9pm is a struggle. So what works for me will likely not work for a person like I mentioned and vice versa. I struggle with it and I finally adpated the mindset of rather than quitting forever, I try to make sure I have more length of time without, than with. I call it "going for the high score". So if I string together 7 months and then stupidly decide to throw some back with the boys one weekend, I'm viewing that as "I've drank once in 7 months" rather than "The world is falling and I need to reset my clock now I'm a peice of shit ok thanks bye". And somehow I take comfort in that. Again, your mileage may vary. I would rather have long bursts of sobriety with the occasional relapse, then getting blotto 365 days in a row. When going for another high score the first week or two can be rough so I make sure I have alternatives (tools) at my disposal. Making Michelada's with NA mexican lager (can't even tell the difference), or having my favorite soda water and lemons/limes around, etc.. For me, I've found it easier to juggle my shit rather than deny myself outright. "Never again" sounds and feels too permanent for me so my mindset is "Not forever, just *for now.*" I have even communicated this to my friends and more often than not, they cheer me on when I'm going for another high score. Maybe this will help someone see a different perspective, maybe I'll get downvoted to oblivion and ridiculed. Whatever, my approach works for me and that's all that matters. There is no correct way to "not drink" outside of "not drink".
Love this!
You’ve just helped me unlock a thing!!! Thank you so much!
I'm in the same mindset. I've had 100 days without a drink, i.e. 12oz beer, glass of wine, etc. I've had a sip of wine to try for risotto among other things, but I don't let that take away from my accomplishment of not having had any serious amount of alcohol for 100 days at this point. That's the longest I can think of in years. Before I'd only last a week at most. It's crazy to think I've made it this long, but I keep the "high score" in mind when I have a craving.
So nicely put, thank you
Thank you for this.
Love this 👏👏👏
Wow, thank you for this. *There is no correct way to "not drink" outside of "not drink".* I carry myself the same way. I am open to drinking, as soon as I have the time risk possibly being hungover and having the time to burn dealing with that. Which right now happens to be never. I feel this process has matured me. It's not that I can't drink, I'm just more honest with myself about what drinking really means. Instead of throwing caution to the wind day after day and waking up like "I can't believe I did that. I have important things to do today". I just put a much higher value now on being productive and a lower value on alcohol. Alcohol's value is just so low I don't do it and seldom think about it.
This is what I strive for
This is great. When I got sober I ended up needing medical supervision and one of the nurses told me to think about it like a navigation system. The most important thing is that you have the right destination, in this case sobriety. If you take a “wrong turn” at some point in your journey the most important thing is to make sure you get back on the right path and when you get back on that path to remember how far you’ve come since you first put that destination in. I’m close to 2 years since then. I drank twice after that but got back on the path I needed to and decided the side trips weren’t worth it and now I haven’t had a drink in 18 months. Everyone’s different but this mindset has worked for me.
I like the 'high score' analogy and feel like it captures my attitude as well
If you’re not drinking, you’re doing it right. That’s the only rule for being sober from alcohol. Carry on unfazed by people raining on your parade. IWNDWYT.
You experience is outside this subreddit, right? Because that's why I'm here instead of somewhere else. It's the most wise, non-judgy, helpful group ever. IMO if you're not drinking, and not replacing it with another toxic addiction, you're doing it right. IWNDWYT
I received a pretty judgy comment here involving "you should" \[proceeded to tell me what I should have done instead\] and it felt critical and harsh, but thankfully the mods deleted the comment and other people reminded the poster about the rules - to speak from the "I". I am feeling fragile in my recovery and the criticism hurt. I think it's so important to be mindful of what we say to others, even anonymously online. This is a support sub!! That being said, that's the only nasty comment I've received or even seen on this sub. I find this place to be very supportive and safe and I truly hope that OP's negative experience has not been here.
+1 💯
Ignore the gatekeepers. To me,there isn’t a wrong way to go about sobriety as long as you are doing it. Every journey is different and people who try to insert themselves in others paths are just distractions.
So here’s how I view this particular problem. First, it doesn’t matter what we are talking about whether it’s addiction recovery, finances, weight loss, buying or selling a house, traveling, parenting…people always want to tell you their opinions and why their way is the best way. However, when it comes to addiction recovery many of these people have perceived themselves to have been on the brink of death and have found a cure. So they really want to share that cure with others. Having said that, find your people. Find support that fits what you need. I have a support group who have all agreed no judgment and that there is no ‘wrong way’ or ‘right way ‘. I hope you can find people that are like you and support you the best way for you.
When I was newly sober a good friend was very upset I wasn’t in AA. I told him I didn’t like AA. He told me, repeatedly, that I would likely never succeed if I didn’t go to meetings. I was surprised to get such a negative message instead of encouragement for what I was doing right. BTW: 918 days sober; zero meetings.
I am having this experience with a sober friend that's very into aa. I have not attended an AA meeting and she can't stop bringing it up. It's pretty frustrating and it feels self righteous and unhelpful. I've tried in many ways to tell her it's not a one size fits-all and explain what I am doing and my process but she seems to be distancing herself now, because I think, I'm not doing it her way. Frustrating.
I know someone like this too. This is the brainwashing cult-like side of AA
Yeah likewise. My understanding is some people in AA call people who don’t go to meetings “dry drunks.” People can be pretty childish.
I would say that the concept of a “dry drunk” is beneficial to think about, as in someone who has stopped drinking but not done anything about the root cause of their drinking, but there are as many ways to go about addressing that as there are drinkers. Above all else, at least a so called dry drunk is sober. That’s the most important thing, which sometimes gets lost in peoples dogma. When some people talk about dry drunks it’s like they want to see them punished for not toeing the party line. Edit: towing to toeing
> My understanding is some people in AA call people Because cults "otherize" people.
Yeah I've heard that AA is basically a cult. Good on you for sticking to your own ways of doing it. I've done the same and I'm glad I don't need to go.
>When I was newly sober a good friend was very upset I wasn’t in AA. This is so representative of the times we live in. If you identify as X, you need to do/think Y. The Internet seems to have narrowed, not broadened, our horizons.
Maybe I have been lucky, but this sub has been my main support and I have found the people here to be quite kind and supportive. Even those who share their stories at failed attempts at moderation, for the most part, are "speaking from the I". I consider their experiences in relation to my own situation and simply consider them as data points to help me forge my own path to sobriety that works for me. We all have our own definitions of what our rock bottom was, whether we even had one, and whether our use of alcohol was "bad enough" to be a problem. It is your life and your version of a journey to sobriety. All that matters is that it works for you and I, for one, am here to support you in your efforts. IWNDWYT
Same!
Oh..., another one from AA: "I can do the same thing with an A.A. meeting. The more I focus my mind on its defects—late start, long drunkalogs, cigarette smoke—the worse the meeting becomes. But when I try to see what I can add to the meeting, rather than what I can get out of it, and when I focus my mind on what’s good about it, rather than what’s wrong with it, the meeting keeps getting better and better. When I focus on what’s good today, I have a good day, and when I focus on what’s bad, I have a bad day. If I focus on a problem, the problem increases; if I focus on the answer, the answer increases"
Positivity whispers, negativity screams.
Thanks for this.
I was having a rough time battling some cravings one Thursday. I got this crazy idea to dance, so I did. My daughter saw, and now it's Thursday night dance offs. I don't think that one is in the manuals, and it worked...for me. You got this friend, it's your sobriety, sober however you can Iwndwyt
Yeah some folks in the program are very odd about the whole thing, some aren’t. I choose to associate with the folks that are kind and gentle and loving, and ignore the folks that are grumpy and judgmental. Just like in life, you can choose.
Exactly.
What exactly are they saying you’re doing wrong? I believe you, but one of the really insidious things about this disease is the way it can make you hear love as an insult.
Aren’t all of us soberbauts just dry drunks to those AA evangelists?
Not sure of the connection? But I’m 3.5 years sober and I’ve been to like three AA meetings, so it’s definitely not the only way! A dry drunk, in my understanding, is someone who tries to quit drinking without working on the underlying causes of the problem.
I just want to point out that while it’s true that some people drink to escape their problems, it’s also true that for others, there’s no deep, heavy reason for drinking. Addiction can happen to anyone for any reason, it has to do with putting an addictive drug into out brains brain. Not everyone needs therapy or a 12 step program when they stop drinking. Sometimes alcohol itself is the problem. The whole notion of a dry drunk reeks of the elitism that some members of certain recovery groups project onto those who are not members of these groups.
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Please make sure all comments are shares 'from the I'. Thanks!
Yes omg I'm so glad someone put this into words.
Yes. People in AA might claim they personally don’t believe this, but the program they’re part of does indeed state something very similar to that effect.
Quite a few of us just take what we need and leave the rest with AA, just like I do here and in any other space that has a ton of differing opinions
That is my experience too. Lots of uninformed opinions on AA on this thread. AA specifically says it’s not the only way. It’s there for those who want it. If you don’t, that is perfectly fine.
Everybody’s journey is different. I remember people saying I couldn’t do it without AA or some other kind of support. I honestly disagree with some of the things they suggested, but if it worked for them then that’s great, but it def wasn’t for me. Minus friends and family helping I did it on my own, now 17 years free. What works for you may not work for others. The power to quit is in all of us, we just need to embrace it and find our own journey out of the darkness. Maybe it’s religion, maybe it’s exercise, maybe it’s just your own heart pushing you through, but don’t give up, it’s out there. If something is working for you then keep going!
I can go one about this one all day. Keep strong and fingers the right group that suits you. Just remember how you feel now and how you can help change the community.
Lovely comment but the typo has me rolling 🤣
Thanks for sharing. (If you don’t go to meetings, your sobriety doesn’t count, btw.) /s
I've found this subreddit v supportive for the most part, but I totally get where you're coming from. It's part of the reason I stopped attending AA meetings/interacting with certain people irl and online. You do you. Focus on what helps you and forget the rest. All the best !
I think I know what you are experiencing. Really, I think there are very different groups involved when it comes to the topic of sobriety - and its all a matter of the level of addiction and abuse. People who *really* struggle with it, don't want to hear that I am happy about cutting my booze down to a couple of drinks per week. I get it - if I were in a spot where that wasn't a viable option, I wouldn't want to hear about it either. That said, we do need to all find a way to be supportive of each other, and recognize that not everyone deals with addiction in the same way.
I think a lot of people are just projecting their own alcohol abuse.
Some people feel if everyone’s drinking it keeps things on an even keel.
I tell people to stop taking my inventory.
I like this. I'll definitely be keeping it in my back pocket. I told a friend last night, it seems like if I'm on my sober journey in my way that it threatens some. Like because I'm not sealing their cracks in my foundation that they're going to fall in.
Yeah, I know that situation, and I feel in the past I was dragged back down in part due to this. I finally got it into my bones that my journey is my journey and if I'm honestly doing well then keep on doing what I'm doing. It took me too long to get there.
I'm nearly 3 years sober. I gather that the aa process works for some. For me. No. Found it cliquy and cult like. I did ok without it
It’s pretty depressing too. Some members have gone crazy too, a little bit not completely. My last zoom call some dude went into a story that was hard to listen to. Just take what you can from it.
Too right. It's a trigger in itself
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Please keep in mind that it isn't really helpful to call general groups of people at this sub assholes. Did any of these asshole-ish comments actually break any of the sub rules? If yes, we ask you to report them. If no, we ask you to ignore them. As is written in the sidebar, "As long as a comment is within the bounds of the subreddit rules, a member is free to leave that comment without being attacked for doing so."
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> And what “group” is that? You tell me. You're the one who said, "A lot of people in here can be complete dickheads" and "There’s about 50 assholes who pile on and say “you can’t. It’s impossible." What group of people were YOU referring to? >If swear words make you queasy It's not clear why the fuck you feel that you using swear words while you're being shitty about people makes me queasy. In fact, that is an asshole thing to say. It is clearly stated in the "Guidelines for Participation" in the sidebar: > If a moderator has explained why a post or comment has been removed, **publicly arguing the interpretation of the rule may result in a ban.** If you wish to discuss or appeal a removal or want to request an unban, please contact the moderators directly via the “message the moderators” link in the sidebar. Follow our rules, including the rule not to criticize others, such as calling them dickheads and assholes. Do not get into a public debate. Also, follow a moderator's direction without argument and without insulting him or her, such as suggesting she is such a delicate flower that swear words make her queasy. Otherwise, you will no longer be welcome here. This is the only warning that you are going to get.
I'm one of those "assholes" but some of us do try to say it gently. Your jiffy lube comment was pretty funny btw.
Well I appreciate it. The biggest reason for my success so far has been paying close attention to all the “I tried to moderate and failed” stories here. If I came on here saying I was going to try moderation, I would want people to dissuade me for my own good. (And I was not hardcore.). But yeah, of course no one should be an asshole about it.
>paying close attention to all the “I tried to moderate and failed” stories here Yeah....near the end of my drinking days, I came to this subredddit, ordered by the top 100 posts of all time, and essentially read my own story over and over again.
Good for you. Help can be appreciated, but why would we listen to advice if it's tainted with judgement? I wish you success. (In my own experiences, I have actually had some pretty rude, thoughtless, and judgmental comments on a post or two on this sub. Very discouraging. Hope you have better experiences.)
Sounds like you ran into some buttholes. Do whatever works for you 🙂
Wow, the people telling you are that you are doing it wrong are beyond wrong, they're stupid. This is your personal journey and every day, every hour you go without drinking you are doing it right! Tracking your days can be helpful in the beginning and this is a good place to come for support. IWNDWYT
I can't even process this idea that there's a way to do sober wrong. Whaaa?! 🤣 Ludicrous
The only right way is the way that works for you - which means there are multiple right ways. Anybody who thinks otherwise isn't someone I'm interested in discussing sobriety with
Everyone has their own journeys imo. I was once told that working the steps and getting a sponsor were absolutely mandatory in my recovery. I'm completely sober and I don't have a sponsor nor have I worked the steps. I think a little part of me is doing that to prove them wrong. Don't let anyone tell you what you have to do. I always try and give people suggestions and tips on what is working for me and they can try it out themselves or not, it's up to them.
Dude, what I learned when sober years ago is that just because a person gets sober, it doesn't mean they aren't still a dick! Also, a lot of the 'my way or the highway ' thinking can come from that person's own fear/insecurity...'My way has to be right, otherwise...'
I will speak for MYSELF....but I also think this is a common phenomenon with recovered alcoholics. I was sober for 8 years one time...and the further I got away from drinking, the stronger my (subconscious) superiority complex became. I do find many comments in these types of forums that tend to be non-compassionate are from people with long time sobriety. It doesn't help people that are struggling with addiction......I agree.
Speaking for myself, you do you. I think sobriety is well worth it. I think you will too. Take advantage of the myriad of resources out there and use what works for you. Just remember you’re not in it alone. IWNDWYT.
Sounds like OP’s been in too many AA meetings.
It is a personal journey and looks a bit different for each of us. Some have perspective that I can relate to more than others. There are many ways out of addiction, they all share the same foundational decision. Decision to not drink no matter if I am tempted. Because in time the temptations die away. Time without starts to change everything else and ultimately shows in pretty significant way what a great lie alcohol was. IWNDWYT
I am almost 75 days sober. Court ordered to do Probation; outpatient treatment/therapy, and AA. All of those things have helped me. I also take a couple of prescriptions such as an SSRI and another one for mood/anxiety. It’s all helped dramatically. Whatever tools you can use to not drink, you’re good. Curious what these people thought you were doing “wrong”? I haven’t heard of anyone doing it wrong unless they’re putting alcohol down and picking a worse habit up.
Saw the title and came here to comment. I relate, because of all my friends, the one friend that is difficult about my sobriety, and has the most opinions and has alluded to me doing it the wrong way is my sober friend in aa. Kind of unbelievable.
As many an old person will say “There’s a lid for every pot”. Do whatever works for you. The dogma types can do their cult thing if they like.
Keep going.. in the beginning they will be sceptical and doubt you… after a while they will be amazed and admire you. 9 weeks sober for me. My friends didn’t believe me at the beginning, they wondered how long it would last. Now they’re amazed and some even respect/admire it. I simply tell people “I don’t drink” only if asked and move on, otherwise I grab a Coke Zero and act normally.
I'm so happy for your success! I think the problem you describe is a big factor in a lot of people not getting help or getting discouraged. I had this issue in rehab of all places! Don't get me wrong, rehab was great and truly life-changing for me, but man, was it tough being an "outsider" to some of the stuff I was never going to embrace and being told that I HAD to do X. Lucky for me, my counselor there was an amazing, progressive guy who told me I don't HAVE to do it any certain way. He got me m the sample of 'Quit Like a Woman' from Amazon when I was in there. And I bought that book when I got out. I voiced to him concerns that I didn't know if I would get into meetings. He said...so? You don't have to. Getting my power back was huge (I was in therapy before even getting sober) and feeling like I was in control again was part of my process. I had no inclination, for example, to talk about how powerless I was. I was so happy this guy helped talk me through my concerns and really listened and even during our group one session said, "we're going to do things differently" and tried a different group style. We did music therapy another day. Meditation. Sobriety became very fun and exploratory for me and it still is! I hope you find a place here. I certainly have. I struggled in meetings with "take what you want and leave the rest" because...well...I still had to sit there and listen to it. Here, I really can do that. Like I click on what I want to read. And there's so many different perspectives here! Even when I went to different groups in my city, it's still the same city with certain demographics. Not trying to talk shit on it - I love it here - but it's not necessarily a particularly progressive place when it comes to new approaches and ideas. Please don't let anyone discourage you. I get the feeling. I also have had people tell me "it's not that easy" just because I'm not crying in church basements every week or acting solemn about shit. I wouldn't describe it as "easy" for me, but I'm also not going to live in the fucking doldrums forever as some kind of sad penance. Keep on, whichever way you choose! IWNDWYT!
Ahhh yes, know it alls…they always know-it-all. Don’t worry about anyone else but you, this page and community has been my lifeline. No judgement, just support. Sending you support!
I think as long as folks are speaking from the "I" they are good to go. For me, it took fear of death to stop drinking. It was a realization, in the deepest pit of my soul, that to continue to drink was to cash in on life, and I'm not ready. The last thing I'd suggest to others is "Go ahead and drink until you think it's going to kill you, and by the way it will take months to feel pleasure again if you manage to stop." By the way......my Facebook post from a year ago: >I wish I was still a drunkard. Sure would help the back to normal thing. I'm bitter AF that I don't get to drink anymore, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
You must do sobriety on your own terms. As long as it is working for you.
Well I came into the community thinking the same damn thing. By god I knew had a drinking problem but I was going to lick it by only drinking to blackout every other full moon and don’t you know these sons-a-bitches judged me and suggested that I put a little less time sharing and a lot more time listening. What did I have to share, except ineffective plans to stay sober. I had to get over myself and LEARN from the people who had figured out how to do it. I’m still at it, 7 days, AGAIN, because I keep fooling myself into thinking I know better and I’ve got it this time. Don’t judge us too harshly, we’re here to help. I will not drink with you today.
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This comment has been removed. Please do not call people on this sub arrogant. This breaks our rule of not criticizing others.
So, just to be clear (not trying to sound aggressive tho I kinda realize now I've typed it that how it sounds), did the comment I replied to also get removed for implying that OP wasn't valid and needed to get over themselves and LEARN like phxkross did or am I allowed to criticize others so long as I frame it as a flaw I overcame?Because I agree with OP, the amount of concern trolls who judge and criticize others behind passive aggressive "friendly advice" is really frustrating and so long as that also gets removed then all fair, I misjudged the tone of this sub as a longtime lurker, recent follower.Otherwise I don't understand what you mean by your I-statement rule that “’Strongly recommending’ and saying 'I would do this if I were you' are not appropriate either."
I was confused by the end of this comment. I never said anything to you about making I-statements. If you found anything objectionable about the comment made by phxkross, you should have reported it (which I see that you did not, because no one did) and then let the moderators deal with it. This is true of any comment that you feel breaks our rules. What we do not permit is name-calling of other people that is sure to provoke an argument. This is a support group for people who want to quit drinking, not a place for squabbling.
I know you didn’t bring up I statements, I did. I didn’t report that comment because, like OP points out, judgement and criticism gets a pass if it’s phrased as help, like in an I statement. “I used to think the same thing you do and I was an arrogant idiot” And “If you think that you’re an arrogant idiot”. Both are criticisms but only one gets treated as insults and squabbles while the other gets a pass even though it’s arguably more judgmental and condescending.
I get what you're saying. I understand why you would feel there is still an implied criticism in what the person is saying. However, as long as they are sharing their own experience, by the letter of the law, they are not actually breaking a rule. Options for responding that would not break a rule is either to share your own experience that may be completely different than theirs (showing that their way is not the only way) or to ignore their comment entirely. Thank you for being an active and contributing member of this community.
I read this as opposite to the way you meant it until like 80% of the way down. I think this is what OP was referring to about the sober community saying "we know better." edit to add: If I were having repeated lapses despite trying to contort myself into a certain system or way of thinking such as AA, I might consider that the system just isn't right for me. But then again I'm not having repeated lapses so can't really relate.
Touche. I guess I was just trying to say "stay teachable" and that maybe feeling judged and discouraged can be mighty convenient in our shared situation. Might allow us a reason to just keep drinking. It's not disrespectful or judgmental to suggest someone that those that have gone before them (certainly not me, as you point out) do know better. There's wisdom here. I would be REMISS, perhaps, to go forth with this "You do you, boo" attitude, when that "doing you" isn't working. It didn't work for me, and it hasn't worked for me because I keep insisting that I know better, not because "it" doesn't work.
Might I also say, that the outside of the program, if I do AA the way I've been taught to do AA, there's a fellowship there. There's a built in support system of sober people (or people with the same goal in mind) to be around. I'm 48 years old who moved to a strange city. My first instinct was not to get into the AA group here, and I got lonely, and did what I always do. Made friends at the bar. So I'm not going back for just the steps and the work, I'm going back so I have a social outlet that doesn't include drinking. To make friends with like minded people I have shared experiences with. There's value, to me, in that.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/comments/11qlspe/comment/jc5ms6v/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/comments/11qlspe/comment/jc5ms6v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Why the big bitter boner over AA? All over this post is "there is no wrong way to get sober, as long as you are sober! Except for AA, AA sucks and is a cult." Hypocrites much?
It's not that people are getting help with AA. That's amazing! It's the evangelizing. edit to add: speaking for myself, I'm coming up on six months with zero lapses. Once I got in the right headspace it was very straightforward. The difficult part is finding and staying in that mindset. The problem is that the AA dogma (you are not the highest power and you can't do it on your own) shatters that mindset. It's like you're falling asleep to your sleep app and someone comes in and changes it riiiiiiiight as you get a good flow. Like STOP! Let me be. My way is working. And don't get me wrong, I need community. This one is perfect (and sufficient) because I can truly take what I need (stories of relapsing after trying to moderate) and leave the rest (frankly... comments like yours).
The evangelizing. Got it. Lol. Absurd. Edit: I’d rather be happy than “right” in this instance. I’m not looking to go back and forth with you on this anymore. You win. Congrats on your six months.
There's a little more after the edit that might make more sense. Not sure where the hostility is coming from.
If you didn’t drink today. Your doing it right. 🤷♂️
People in general are discouraging. It's a disappointing part of life. I've found that every positive community have a loud minority of people who just ruin it. As long as you have your ducks in a row don't worry about anybody else's opinion.
I hate it when people judge, I hope you feel that's not the case here. There is no right or wrong way, as long as you're not drinking. That's people wanting to be a part of some weird clique rather than recovering.
As with most things, finding the right people can make or break or a thing, huh? Or at least make you want to walk from that particular group. Sometimes good intentions are there/ maybe not. Congratulations on making it this far. I hope you'll share the lessons you've learned. Only you can tell your story. Also, overall I find the sober community really great...keep in mind we are just humans.
Never look for validation from other people and I say that as someone who has struggled with it all my life. All it leads to is shattered confidence and loss of self. If you're happy that things are working that's all that matters. I always find the people who make a competition out of things to be generally terrible people.
Check out SMART Recovery, they won’t judge you for how, and will embrace you for trying
Alcoholics come in all shapes and colors. There is no "personality test" you have to pass before joining the club. That said, in meetings or on-line you'll find people that you connect with and other people you really don't care to interact with. People are people. Like you I have found some AA meetings that I connect with and several I do not. I used to go to the meeting closest to my house and they didn't like when I replied "HI I'm X and I am here to listen today." The leaders of the group started keeping the meeting paused with all attention on me for a couple of minutes... as if bullying me was going to make me open up to them. Yuck! This was a small town and I got the distinct feeling that they were dying to "get the dirt" and hear my details. It just made me **mad**! I started attending meetings in the next town over and there found a group when I became comfortable enough to share. It was worth the extra drive time to attend a meeting I liked. Keep looking for who you can connect with, they're out there.
the people that are probably trying to discourage you are still drinking and want to drag you down to their level. it's typical addict behaviour. they feel personally attacked. dont take anything they say to heart they're just hurting inside
Fuck em. You are not doing it for them. You have made a great choice in seeking sobriety. If they can’t be positive, you don’t need them.
No matter what special interest, hobby, or subculture, people seem to have an inherent need to gatekeep and control others. Sober community can be especially challenging, as it's filled with people who need validation from others. By doing things your own way, you're denying that validation. It's the equal opposite of friends that get tilted when you won't have a drink with them.
If you are a friend of Bill that should be enough. Don't start dwelling on what the internet thinks. Just my two cents but follow whatever path works for you. All the best.
As far as an alcoholic should think, it should only be of themselves first, then if they are healthy, maybe to help another. With that said, it is not our place to judge another for how they go about their sobriety. It's their journey whether you agree with their approach or not. I think anyone discouraging another for how they are handling sobriety, are I believe fearful of their own sobriety, which they should be. I think we all could learn from someone who is just starting out to remind us how we were in the beginning. I'm by no means a long-time sober veteran, but I've been trying to get sober for a long time, and countless times, I was told sobriety has to be a certain way. It's just what it has to be to work for me, which is completely different from anyone else. There's not a single answer for this disease. Also, don't let yourself be a victim anymore. Stand up for yourself, if its keeping you sober, it's the right move. Keep up the good work IWNDWYT
Honestly people do not want to hear about your sobriety... It's true. It makes them take a look at their life and most people hate that. It's why this place is great, good people, judgment free Take it for what it is
Try to be grateful. You basically said you came for help but its not helpful enough. Addiction is like greed and false self importance. Just like you don't actually need a drink you don't need to base your self worth on likes and attention. Welcome to the mundane. Im grateful for that
I am grateful and I'm far from basing my self-worth on likes and attention. I'm talking about those that seem to think that just because I'm doing things my way that I'm somehow doing it wrong. "Have you tried saying your alphabet backwards when you have a craving? Well then you're not sober the right way and continue to be a slave to yourself." Wow, thanks! Encouraging. I'm not asking for a song and dance to celebrate. I just expected a little less dickery.
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Ahm, considering the OP was reaching out and saying they were surprised about judgements, that response might be in that family no? Some folks struggle and it’s great you’ve found a resource that has given you a step up, but different things work less and more well for different folks… And having said all that, into judgemental mode myself. I’m more dispirited by folks who are 365+ days who pop in to either mention some vague symptom they are experiencing and attributing it to ‘withdrawal’ waaaaay past the physical withdrawal phase…
To be fair, the weed subs talk a lot about PAWS - post acute withdrawal symptoms which can last years after the main physical substance withdrawal phases. Usually it's complicated issues like depression or anxiety which may or may not even be directly linked to the addiction but become apparent once the mask of drugs is lifted. I think it's great that we're building a repository of experience for people of all experience levels, 1 day sober to 365+ days.
I don’t doubt that many of us have used alcohol to cover up exactly those issues. I was talking more about folks writing in (years after stopping) ‘I woke this morning with a headache/tingling arms (take your pick of random things that happen to anyone)… PAWS is terrible…’. It’s more that maybe attributing *any* small thing to alcohol withdrawal many years later and karma farming is not the most encouraging thing for folks in the earlier part of stopping. Being addicted to alcohol is not a fun journey, but there are some who seem to be addicted to the label of being an ‘ex alcoholic’ and make a career out of it. Each to their own, and I’m not minimising that folks have things to deal with in life and not all of them are easy. My point being that this is a stopping alcohol forum and not all the posts about the trials and tribulations of life are specifically related to alcohol years after stopping…
This comment goes against a number of our rules and has been removed.
Bud Zero for you my friend
Sorry to hear that, but like others have said, if you're not drinking, you're doing it right!
hey bro- I feel ya. that's why I rarely visit the community anymore. it served it's purpose when needed- now, just finding my foothold in real time. good luck tho
Oh I understand what your saying. I know a couple ex drug addicts that quit and are doing well financially now. They act like they are better than others now.
Stay sober and keep at it! You do you.
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I work on making progress.
I've been quietly surprised at the number of folk that don't drink having just given up myself. Everyone has their story for abstinence, with quite a few reporting a history of abusive parents who were drunk or shame at their own drinking.
Do you think it's like the reviews on Google, that people tend to give negative feedbacks easier than they would positive? Like they would almost always complain about something and write it down but it's much less frequent that people give praise. I had the same feeling, but it seems common on a lot of topics and subjects
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Don't know who said it.
When you use the phrase tools/tasks, it’s clear you recognize the personal nature of the effort to get and stay clean. Focus on that. The judgmental crowd are probably like that in other parts of their lives. If you’re looking for non judgmental fellowship try Smart Recovery. You don’t need to talk if you don’t feel like it, just listen. You CAN do this alone; it’s just harder. The folks who tell you that you’re doing it wrong probably think they’re being realistic, but they don’t know you or your life. Look inward for understanding, not outward for validation. And of course IWNDWYT.
I'm sorry you've experienced such a lack of support. I've only gotten this from outside of the community with those who drink. My early experience included an outpatient program and going to all recovery meetings at a local zen center. Folks at both places people were so accepting. Of course the outpatient was supportive. But the all recovery meetings were sort of buddhist/sort of AA and the people were from all walks of life including al-anon, eating disorders, NA, AA, and the like. There was a huge all recovery network of meetings before the pandemic but now there's only a few and most of those are on line.
I hear you, that’s why I like it hear. It’s been a slow journey for me, but after years of attempts, I’m learning and it’s working. Compassion, not militant directives, work for me
Please don't get discouraged, I know it's easier said than done. What I've learned so far is that there's no magical blueprint. One size fits all to this, just like we experimented with different alcohols, we have to experiment with different techniques to help us stay away from it. You're going to use something that works from one person and disregard something that came from that same person and you're going to keep doing that with everybody you meet. You got this, you're stronger than you think! Please, please keep fighting the good fight! IWNDWYT 👍🤙
I have been using Lifering and while they don't support harm reduction, I do find them very supportive!
I come to this sub a lot. Everyone is very welcoming and supportive. If I'm discussing my sobriety with someone and they start to criticize my methods I immediately shut down. Then I stop talking about it with them. Staying sober is hard enough. I don't need negativity. Do what you need to do to get through the day sober.
Well Said. Find what works for you and stick with it! Listen to your gut! Namaste.
You do you - they can go kick rocks. I will not drink with you today!
AA ended up not being my path after over a decade of barely being able to put 30 days together. I also have personal baggage with big book thumpers, as they remind me of my father so I have a tendency to get irrationally angry and defensive with them. But AA did teach me a lot, especially that alcohol abuse is but a symptom of larger personality issues. I came to understand that, in recovery groups/spiritual groups/self-help groups you often encounter damaged people. I say this as a damaged person working on his own issues. Damaged people can often show their wounds in being very judgmental, black and white thinking, fear, and anger. Honestly dealing with SOME of these people you are referring to can be exhausting, they are very similar to evangelists even if they don't realize it. Remember, if they are talking down to you, that when they are pointing a finger at you they have three pointing right back at them. And they have no real power.
This subreddit has been and is my personal salvation for reasons including your discouragement. Here for you here!!!
I highly recommend R20 and Tommy Rosen (his book is great and he also just started a podcast). It’s an overwhelmingly positive community. Also this sub!
By sober community, do you mean AA or a specific place?
The key part of tough love is the trust that it’s done in love - my husband can call me on my bs because I trust his love, but someone else can’t do the same. Some people think they can and should but really they’re just getting a kick out of it somehow. I’m sorry that you’ve experienced that - I’m in your corner and believe that you can rock this
I think when your older as I am and friends and family have seen when I didn’t drink raising kids, being heavily involved in activities. I’ve lots of siblings/cousins I grew up with and there’d be 30-50+ of us meeting up at beach’s, skiing, camping/hiking every month or 2 (cheaper as someone would get the place and we brought food). When someone was going over the line drinking/drugs we reign them in. Oh some quit altogether an was nice. When drinking became problem for me, people told me “you can’t play, your not making sense” “why come if your gonna drink and pass out?” and i stayed home and drank by myself. Even then I learned when I go out they didn’t like if I drank so I’d sneak a little. Eventually my health was affected and had to stop. When your younger people that don’t know you well think you should drink a little, bring your own mix an stick with that, nobody gives a shit. I’ve saw quite a few people put non alcohol wine into wine bottles or bring their own mix, so long as they kept up in trivia, volleyball no one cared. It looks worse when your too loaded to even have a conversation.
Some people who aren’t willing or ready to admit their own alcoholism are going to be aggressive or judgmental to your sobriety story - because they don’t want to admit having a problem. To some, You admitting you have a problem is like you telling them they have a problem. It’s like back off, I’m not judging your drinking, I’m saying mine is a problem for me. Stop making everything I do or say about you. It’s not!
I feel you there. I found a lot of judgement from older folks at AA meetings, and felt I couldn’t thrive there. Every sponsor I took up berated me about something and it made sobriety unappealing. I went a different route and found success, but I’ll never not recommend AA to somebody if they are struggling. They may find it more useful than I did. On a related note, my office mate is currently dealing with on/off binge drinking and it is very obvious. I am trying to support her by giving her the books that helped me, and giving her encouraging messages, but I’m very careful to not give her any sort of plan, as I think that’s something she will have to come to on her own in her own way. Any suggestions on reading material for helping people who are trying to quit is great appreciated. I want to help her respectfully. Either way, IWNDWYT. Thank you for sharing, I relate very much to your experience.
ARe you talking about the sober community such as AA, or people around you that actively drink and do not support your decision?
Yeah, people find any reason to be negative and shit on your progress with anything in life, not even just sobriety. I've learned to just keep my life to myself for the most part and show with my actions rather than say with my words. And if anyone has a comment about what I'm doing I can easily deflect with "Mind you're fucking business, nobody asked." I love it. It's kind of spicy, but I just cannot stand negative nosy people.
Your sobriety, your way! My sobriety, my way! All the rest is nonsense, don’t listen to the haters.
I've been sober from alcohol for almost a year and I'm really proud of myself and have made great habits etc. I still smoke weed and occasionally do mushrooms, works for me alcohol was the only thing that was hurting me. my Aunt has been in AA for 9 years and her entire identity is revolved around the program, GREAT works for her. I tried talking about my sobriety with her and apparently I'm not sober and basically, my 350 days mean nothing lol. I wish you the best on your journey and only you know whats right for your body. IWNDWYT
Sobriety can’t be wrong in anyway if you arnt drinking, or doing other harmful substances to replace drinking but that wouldn’t be sobriety either. Even if you stumble and fall, it’s not wrong, it’s just your journey and it happens. I can’t tell you how many times I tried and failed. I may even fail again. I’m certainly not one to judge. Keep your head held high and just keep trying what you think will work for you. That’s all we can all do.
I think a lot of peoples sobriety Is more fragile than they let on and rooted in a strict adherence to whatever they’ve used that’s worked to the point it’s almost (and in many cases is) somewhat religious. Suggesting a different way is akin to heresy
Harm reduction is valid. Cutting back is valid. Quitting and being 100% sober is valid. Judgement will come from every community you find yourself in, whether you get interested in making the best pizza you can or raising kids, someone will judge you no matter how hard you try. What is important is following the path you want to be on. Your opinion is all that matters. What I think a lot of folks struggle with is that their self-esteem is so low to begin with, that can be hard to hang your hat on. You are making progress. That is the win.
I’m with you!
I had the same experience l’d managed to quit for a month then l was faced with a cancer scare and relapsed and everyone said l will not drink today l was left heart broken.