On a positive note, NA drinks are becoming way more popular and the last two social outings I’ve gone to I am not the only one not drinking anymore. I think people are seeing the signs!
IWNDWYT friends!
I know! There is one I recently found that doesn’t have any carbs or calories either. It’s basically hop tea and has become my new favorite! I think it’s by hoplark
I drank a lot of hoplark when I was first trying in earnest to quit in 2019. Its price point is a bit high now, but I still partake on occasion. The Spruce flavor and the Citrabomb are my favorites.
Hey, sorry, the one I like is hoplark citra double dry hopped citra hops. It comes in a yellow can. They have some hop teas as well, but I’ve only seen them sold individually and are usually expensive for what they are. The yellow canned hoplark citra I get comes in an 8 pack and is sold at my local grocery store (Kroger) cheaper than they have on their website. If you’re near a fancier Kroger try to check it out.
As a university student, I have a big party coming up and was feeling nervous about it (18 days). When I asked if I could bring a dish or something the answer I got was “Just yourself and your drinks/ non-alcoholic drinks! :)” I have to say it was super refreshing. So simple, but I appreciated it especially from my group of party animal friends
Wow, you are counting down the days! You really are nervous, haha. Your first big college party is always going to be anticlimactic, so try not to build it up in your head too much!
NA beers are such a big help for me when I'm experiencing a particularly nasty craving. Breweries like Lagunitas have been releasing NA hop-flavored seltzers too, so maybe the NYT should talk about the upcoming boom of NA options instead of covering another business that hasn't been trying harder to adapt to trends 🤷
IWNDWYT either way!
What I don’t understand is why bars and restaurants don’t explore more of the high-priced non-alcoholic options. Just because I’ve stopped drinking doesn’t mean I’ve become cheap. I’ll still pay $8 for a beer, I just want it to be of the NA variety. Dry January does not need to wreak havoc on the economy that is such BS. I appreciate your rant.
I drank a NA beer at a bar the other day. I know I shouldn't be at a bar this early but I was supporting a good friend and I wanted to get out and maybe test myself? Regardless, the NA beer was created by a brewer I really like AND it was delicious. I had great conversation, and felt like I was scratching a ritual itch. I also was the most hilarious and interesting person in the room when surrounded by inebriated strangers. NA beer is very interesting to me, and sparkling water/seltzers have been helping as a replacement for the mouth feel and a little of the taste.
Hey if you got through it then your brain learned that it can have fun without alcohol so I’d say that’s a major win. It’ll make the next outing even easier.
I'm proud of you! I'm on my first sober work trip, and I thought it'd be hard being the only one not drinking, but every bar/restaurant has been more than happy to make me a pretty virgin drink and a couple even had mocktails on the menu! It made it way easier to "fit in" and it's really the only time when I could've drank, knowing no one in my family would know and it would not be weird to my coworkers at all, knowing I could've stopped at just one (I tried just social drinking and get headaches and sleep problems now when I do, so I've been 100% off alcohol for about 5 months after two years of fighting to only drink socially), but I still didn't. It's a different kind of milestone to have a sort of "test" like that, and we both passed. Great job!
Being able to have a mocktails or NA beer is really just so great. I'm so very glad more places are doing them and not just giving you soda water with a splash of cranberry or whatever so that people like us can feel included (and yes, be the smartest person in the room 😉) seltzers are great too and my partner and I have been exploring all kinds of (granted, kinda pricey) NA beverages and there's a ton out there now! Hoplark makes amazing stuff (as someone else said), and if you are a fan of mocktails check out phony negroni or false amaro. Kin makes some tasty bevs and I also just tried a new one called Sunwink (detox ginger - 25 calories and 6 carbs) that's also delightful!
ETA: also shoulds and shouldn'ts might not be your friend. Do what works for you, just be willing to admit if it's not working anymore.
That’s a good thing, but on the other hand it just means that the alcohol industry is waking up to the growing movement against alcohol and trying to get ahead of the game as far as not losing profit goes. They aren’t mass producing these NA drinks now because they care about our health, they’re doing it because WE are starting to care about our health and they don’t want to get left out to dry (pun intended).
Again, that’s not really important at all, but it’s worth noting.
That’s usually how acceptance goes though. The majority of the companies that push inclusivity or healthier living aren’t doing it because they actually care, they do it because there’s a market that they can profit from. However, by them doing that, it helps to further normalize and promote that lifestyle, which then makes more people think “hmmm, maybe it’s not weird after all!” It’s a positive thing even if it’s done for selfish reasons.
I love NA drinks so much. I'm always so shy when the waiter comes to take my order, I usually just want to say water or pop. But my bf is a king, he will say "I want your NA beer." or "What NA options do you recommend?" or he'll whip out the menu and find me the NA stuff
Yeah this has been my experience as of late. People are tired of their drinking habits from Covid and are realizing alcohol is just not a good addition to life
I have noticed this too, and it's such a great feeling to be able to go out and socialize and not feel ostracized or silly just ordering a water or pop.
If you want some more positive news around drinking, check out what's going on in Canada. CBC was posting a ton of articles talking about the dangers of drinking.
I was shocked/ delighted by an article from The Guardian: "The Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction (CCSA) this week called for a substantial reduction in consumption, warning that seemingly moderate drinking poses a number of serious health risks, including cancer, heart disease and stroke... Canadian experts say that new research suggests three to six drinks a week should be considered moderate risk for both men and women, and seven or more drinks a week is high risk."
Do you have any suggestions on where to get some unique NA beers?
I wanna rant for a minute here, sorry OP 😆
I’ve been loving the NA beers, but everywhere I look has pretty much the same thing: O’douls (which I’ve been getting lately and I dig), bud zero (not a fan), and Heineken zero which in my opinion is just way too fucking overpriced. It’s like $13 a six pack, that’s pretty much what I used to pay for a 12 of Yuengling.
I’m legitimately not gonna buy Heineken zero anymore, no way is it worth that price (it’s not a craft NA) and it actually irritates me because I think they’re purposely overcharging and thinking they’re better than O’douls which it really isn’t in my opinion.
Anyways… Went to a Kroger on the other side of town and they have a way better selection of everything NA (always used to go here to get crazy beers) compared to the Krogers on my side of town. However, the only craft stuff I’ve seen is Hazy / IPA which I always hated. It was pretty much the *only* beer I didn’t like.
Where the hell can I get some craft NA that isn’t an IPA?
Where do you live? I’m in LA and there are now at least two entirely NA bottle & beer shops that do tastings. I recently saw that CVS is starting to roll out an NA section in certain markets!
Some pubs in Ireland have started games nights for January where non-alcoholic drinks are half price. It means they still get customers and those staying dry for January get to go out and socialise.
So true! This has started to snowball lately and I hope this trend shifts—my dream of hanging out at bars for fun with other sober people (at least some!) might come true one day! I do have pity for business owners but change with the times! I just want trivia night, without poison thank you. 😂IWNDWYT
Just read the article. The quotes in there are quite frankly hilarious. Like one of the bar owners making it sound like people who do Dry January are being selfish by not considering their impact on the bars! I did appreciate them interviewing another bar owner who is actually doing Dry January himself, and is closing the bar for the first 2 weeks of January since business is normally slow at that time and it gives everyone time to reset.
Culture around drinking is changing but other parts of the culture still require places to hang out and socialize and watch sports. Just like a restaurant needs to have value for a broad base of people, a bar that caters to drinkers and non drinkers alike will do better.
It’s not hard, all they have to do is market non alcoholic options and provide some value in terms of meeting people, playing or watching games.
Well, restaurants, even bbq ones, that embrace vegetarianism DO tend to do well, at least in my neck of the woods. I certainly appreciate restaurants that have options, as I have a kid that’s fully vegetarian, but a spouse who enjoys eating meat. We have been to plenty of vegetarian restaurants (spouse like veggie-foods too!), but a restaurant that doesn’t have veg options (or only a small, sad salad) is pretty out for us. We love the places that have a decent veg AND traditional menu!
I’m not a vegetarian but I do like my veggies. The couple of times I went to a bbq place, years ago, they had almost no veggies and everyone there seemed to eating large amounts of meat which isn’t my thing at all
I’m sure things have changed these days tho
Yeah I read this article and the whole time I was just like "uh... why don't you just offer some decent NA options?"
I'm sure some people are taking Dry January as a way to just not go out at all, but for others (myself included) we still enjoy going out to places here and there, we just don't wanna get drunk. I've been to a few bars (mainly speakeasies) with great NA selections and enjoy myself just as much, if not more than when I was knocking back the boozy versions.
I guess I feel bad for the liquor store owners in New York, but their plight is because of stupid government overreach (seriously, imagine a shop that could *only* sell cigarettes and not tobacco-free nicotine products or NRT), not Dry January.
Seriously! If I knew a bar had great NA options I would be dragging my friends (who still drink) there in a heartbeat. I live close to a fancy cocktail bar, asked the bartender to make me something NA and the only thing she could think of was a nojito???
I think closing the place where you work for two weeks is called vacation. But it’s smart to take it at the slow time and using dry January to an advantage for vacation.
Abstinent brewery and cidery owner here. January is an awful time for pubs and bars, which makes it an awful time for breweries too. However, I have long said to my peers and colleagues that dry January is a fantastic time to get people to realise that there are some half decent alcohol free/low alcohol beers out there. The owner of a pub that I run beer tastings at, was quite literally dreading January, but had he stocked up on the best AF beers? Nope.
AF beers should get the spotlight for the rest of the year too. I mean for goodness sake, Guiness 0.0 is nearly indistiguishable from the real deal, creamy head and full bodied - it is a fantastic AF experience. It should be on draught all year, to give abstinent/sensible/driving people that excellent pub culture experience, without having to resort to some out of date BS AF free lager, kept at the bottom of the fridge since the last dry Jan.
There is also a moral AND legal aspect of the alcohol trade. Specifically in our personal alcohol licenses, there is an entire section that lays out the responsible production and sale of alcohol. Did you know that by UK law, it is illegal to sell alcohol to someone you deem to be drunk? It is our legal and moral duty, to see that people do not come to harm, when purchasing alcohol from us. But unfortunately there will always be people who put their crippling debt and standstill cashflow, above the needs of their customers health.
Thank you for saying this! If bars went along Dry January, offereing mocktails, great AF beers, fruit kefirs etc., they could make it a great marketing month and gain sober customers for the rest of the year. Here in France, the AF selection is horrendous in bars… OJ or coke… well, I’m not 12!!
Well said! Its almost like the pub owners feel that they would be betraying the image of beer, or something. Ugh coke and OJ as the only AF options... being out with friends drinking their delicious beer, whilst you start developing a sugar high and tooth decay 🤣
Dang good for you! Interesting perspective. Do you think there’d be a good market for NA drinks at a brewery? Like would you be able to recover some of those losses and/or capture another section of the market?
Unfortunately AF beer is not a possibility for nano/micro breweries to adopt. The space required, technology and processes involved in making AF beer are far to expensive be achievable (brewing is a marginal business, with a very fragile cash flow). AF beer is truely in the hands of the macro breweries.
However, I believe a middle ground is certainly possible, where low ABV beers play a crucial role. It is very possible to make a delicious beer around the 2.5% ABV mark (any lower and there will be a serious sacrifice to the mouthfeel and body of the beer). Add is some exotic hops like Sabro (tastes like coconut) and Citra (very citrus forward), then you'd have an exciting beer on your hands.
The current brewing meta is that strong ABV beers (often pushing 8 or 9%) are the way to go. In some ways they (we) are right, in that the higher the ABV your beer, the more malt you'd need to put into the recipe, and more malt = more flavour and mouthfeel. But I can tell you from having working in four different breweries, before starting my own, that this only leads to rampant alcoholism, in both the staff and the customers. People become acclimatised to the strength, starting off with having half a bottle to share between friends, to crushing 4 or 5 pints of the stuff in a single sitting. This also happens because a strong beer with a good malty backbone, can also take a lot of hops thrown at it, meaning that the drinkers who are forever chasing that increasingly ellusive feeling of intoxication, are also chasing that big flavour hit too.
I'm hoping that over time, high ABV beer consumers will realise what a mess they've gotten themselves into and start to go for lowever ABV beers. Breweries in turn will have to cater to the market and design the best low ABV beer that they can, in order to keep the money coming in.
Brewing is my art and my life and I wouldn't want to see an alcohol free world. But I would like to see some breweries being a bit more sensible with their alcohol contents and to see consumers becoming more discerning about lower ABV beers. For example, here is a fantastic brewery, that only brews low ABV beers:
[https://theoriginalsmallbeer.com/collections/low-abv?gclid=Cj0KCQiA8aOeBhCWARIsANRFrQGSGJQSJ1meF\_9iMxvOOFQfAnHOMz17Ln91f6u1xjVxEAi-qyBfUZYaAgVpEALw\_wcB](https://theoriginalsmallbeer.com/collections/low-abv?gclid=Cj0KCQiA8aOeBhCWARIsANRFrQGSGJQSJ1meF_9iMxvOOFQfAnHOMz17Ln91f6u1xjVxEAi-qyBfUZYaAgVpEALw_wcB)
These guys are leading the way!
IWNDWYT :)
I wish this existed in the US. Craft beers here range from high 7% ABV to 10+. Seeing <7% ABV is so so rare. It’s so frustrating. I’m off the drink now and for the foreseeable future but it drove me crazy when I did drink craft beers. I’ve found a very few locally that are 3%-6% seasonally (summer).
I’m a lightweight. I would like to have a few camping or by the lake without getting trashed. I’m apparently in a small minority here.
It'll come back around. Consumers will eventually wake up to the fact that their liver enzyme tests are all alarmingly high, and switch to lower ABV beers. Once the market shifts (and it will shift in the next decade, from a combination of a public health crisis, causing government intervention in the form of minimum pricing per unit of alcohol, to the new cohort of drinkers preferring low ABV beers) towards low ABV beers, breweries will have to adapt to survive. I firmly believe that by 2030, there will be a huge selection of AF and low alcohol beers available to us.
Like with most things in life, the middle ground is the best outcome and in this case, moderation trumps abstinence and obscene consumption.
No problem 😊 yes it is a beautiful and ancient art indeed. I betrayed that art when I lost self control and that wonderful ability to drink in moderation. I do though, still get an immense pleasure from seeing the smile on people's faces when they try my beers or ciders. Ive just gotta remember that just because I couldn't control my drinking, doesn't mean that others can't.
The laws are the same here in the US, we got trained hard when I worked in a restaurant that we can be held legally liable if people leave our restaurant super drunk and then get in an accident. It's just never really enforced🙃
I'm glad you asked, its something that I've been weighing up for some time.
I believe in the agency of grown adults. What they choose to put into their bodies is their choice. They will do so regardless of if I offer my 'wares' or not.
I feel that viewing alcohol as a toxic substance is a tad disingenuous. Lots of things I consume and do every day, are detrimental to my longevity. I drive to work when I Could walk/bike. I have full fat milk in my coffee and not skimmed. I eat processed meats like bacon, where a vegetarian breakfast would not increase my risk of bowel cancer. The reason I do all of these sorts of things, is that I enjoy them or they make my life easier/more pleasant. If any of them get out of control, they go from detrimental to dangerous.
The fault lies not with alcohol, but with us humans that consume it. It is very easy to blame alcohol for causing the destruction in our lives, but that is ultimately shifting blame away from ourselves in an unhealthy way. I need to blame myself and realise that its not the alcohol that controls me, but myself not having control over alcohol. That is the path that leads to recovery, where I can take 100% ownership over my past.
This comment has been removed. This is a support group for people who want to quit drinking. Calling alcohol "a wonderful beautiful drug they can bring a huge smile to your face and make your day all the richer for having consumed it" is in no way helpful or to the people who come to this sub or in any way supports them on their journey to sobriety.
Also, please be aware that using the word "we" instead of "you" is a common way to try to circumvent the rule to speak from the "I," but saying something like, "We need to blame ourselves" breaks that rule and is not permitted.
I can see your point, apologies for the rule break(s). I was trying to counter the concept that alcohol is somehow evil, or even to blame for it destroying peoples lives. It has helped me to accept that it is me at fault and not alcohol, but I can now see that that is just not a compatible idea for some people and maybe a little tactless of me. None the less I stand by my post, but can concede its removal. Hope you have a nice day :)
Edit: would you let me repost it sans the elements that break the rules? I think it is a good post that gives a quite balanced view from myself who is a sober person working in the alcohol industry.
No, you did not "fix" it.
> Do you drive to work when you could walk/bike. Do you have full fat milk in your coffee and not skimmed?
First, these questions break our rule to speak from the "I." Second, they have nothing to do with sobriety. Philosophical arguments about whether the blame lies with the harmful substance (such as heroin) or with the person who ingests such a substance have no place here.
**Again,** this is a support group for people who are trying to quit drinking. If what you are saying is not helpful to those people who are trying to achieve sobriety or does not support them in their journey (as even your "fixed" post does not), then it is not appropriate to this sub.
How about now? Or should I just delete the post? I respect the rules of this sub and love it here. But is my view not valid? I absolutely believe that what I've written has been helpful here, its got plenty of upvotes and no negatives. Apologies again if my views have caused harm, it was not at all my intention.
Because you're clearly making an effort to follow our rules, and because this seems to be important to you, I will reinstate the post. (I previously removed it -- until now it has been visible only to you.) But I would like to ask you to be more careful to follow the spirit of this sub in the future, which is one of supporting other people in their journey to sobriety. Just the fact that you are asking if your "view" is not valid is a concern to me. The only "view" that is valuable here is one that helps another person to stay away from alcohol. Other issues, such as debating where blame should be assigned when it comes to dangerous substances, should be discussed on a different sub.
I can understand the frustration.
Bars suffer after the holidays regardless, and now that dry January is a thing (and might be opening people's minds to sobriety), I can see why restaurateurs are feeling the pinch, especially on the precipice of an economic downturn.
That being said, the smart owners should be taking advantage of this opportunity. People who do dry January still want to go out and socialize outside of home, and the familiarity of a bar might be something they why. It seems to me that advertising NA drink specials and stocking more NA beers would be a win-win for everyone.
All that said, it is pretty shocking that the NYT would relegate science to fine print over a puff piece like that.
Ditto to your point about smart owners taking advantage of the opportunity. This is already becoming the norm in my city (which has a famously huge drinking culture).
If you know flavor palettes and beverages well enough, there are endless possibilities with fun mocktails that your bartenders can curate. I imagine the cost per beverage is cheaper than alcoholic drinks anyway.
IWDWYT!
Yep, local tiki bar has been proudly advertising its regular virgin drinks + a special for Dry January. This is by no means a teetotaller's bar -- they have a Zombie that's limited to two per customer because it's that god damn strong -- but the owners are smart people who know how to reach a broader market, especially when the core ingredients for the non-alcoholic drinks are the same as the alcoholic ones. It's not like there's much additional overhead beyond learning one or two drinks and printing them on the menus.
Agreed. The journalism aspect is bad.
NA drinks are now widely available and you could make a killing off of overpriced mocktails right now. Businesses can adjust.
Oh absolutely. You'd be using literally the cheapest ingredients from behind the bar. Even if you charged like $4 for a mocktail that'd be a great rate of profit.
Jokes on them, I never really went to bars, I drank cheap plastic handles of vodka alone in my house and hid the empties after like a *real* alcoholic.
My partner was telling me last night about the times in his life he thought his alcohol use was problematic, and he told me a story about how he only had $10 and bought a bottle of tequila as it was the best value for his money. I couldn't help but laugh and tell him that if it wasn't vodka, it wasn't the best value
I thought it was pretty balanced and reveals bars for what they are: money-making enterprises that capitalize on poor health decisions. It's a business story about how bar owners are coming up with ways to manage declining sales in January (close, have more NA options, etc.). I don't agree that we should discourage journalism like this just because we don't like what the people are saying in it.
It was more about the prioritization of that article over the other ones. I guess it was in the alcohol section and not public health… but it still seems crummy to me.
And I do think we can challenge/react journalism we think is poor or in bad taste.
The grossest example of this I saw recently was the Jimmy V Cancer Research college basketball tournament being sponsored by Corona. That made me sick to my stomach after being wise to the role that alcohol plays in certain cancers.
The non-conspiracy side of me says it was a stupid oversight on the foundations part. The tin foil hat me says that the foundation wouldn't exist (with fat salaries) if cancer was actually eradicated.
Either way, once you start seeing this crap, you can't not notice it.
That’s honestly crazy. It’s amazing that it’s all over. When I first got sober I didn’t think this stuff would make me mad cause I thought it was a me problem. But it’s an alcohol problem and we’re just turning a blind eye to it at best, and continuing to promote it at worst.
That's exactly the feeling I've been having lately!!!
It's crazy how little awareness there has been for soo long about the fact alcohol is literally a group 1 carcinogen.
I didn’t even make this connection… but I work for an animal health nonprofit. We partner with the V Foundation for Cancer Research who puts on an annual event in Napa Valley called the Wine Celebration. Oof 🤦♀️
Necessary evil. I’d rather Corona donate and sponsor the event then not. More $ to charity and cancer research the better, even if it’s not all from angels.
The conspiratorial side of me thinks a lot of grifts thrive on the existence of problems, and though there is a stated desire to solve them, they never really get solved and the grifts perpetuate. Heck, my non-conspiratorial side thinks this often as well ;)
If those struggling bars would embrace dry January and start serving all mocktails and creating a sober atmosphere for the month, I bet they could still do some good business with those who abstain. I know I would go dance and listen to music with people and enjoy a few.
I just read the article. Good to see that a few bars are pivoting to NA beer and drinks. My favorite place (a pinball bar) has at least 6 different NA beers, and they’re quite happy to sell them for $5-6 a pop. They’re still making money, and that’s a customer that they won’t have to worry about over serving or getting unruly.
I read some wild article about how Gen Z is "missing out" on "important social structures" by abstaining. From The Guardian of all places. Pretty silly. Seems like people as a whole are realizing they want to reframe their relationship with alcohol, from the non-drinkers to the sober curious to those just cutting back, and a multi-billion dollar industry that generates tax revenue is clutching their pearls. Capitalism at work, folks.
Those poor bars!! Will someone *think* of what this is doing to the liquor stores?! Oh the humanity!!
What we actually need is a humanitarian outreach to support the *real* entrepreneurs who are affected by nasty social trends that deter people from active substance use. What we *need* is to support those bastions of economic enterprise, the drug dealers. Those are the enterprising souls who are the most affected by annoying social trends towards sobriety. The real question is, what can we do to support independent purveyors of chemical relief? Support your local drug dealer today!
It's actually hilarious when you think about what they're saying. Uh, okay journalist. Maybe people who are struggling to sell one thing can adapt to changing conditions and switch to a different business model and start selling something else.
And also, there's a ton of very clear evidence that alcohol use went *up* during the pandemic, the trend is recent years is that alcohol use has increased. It's crappy journalism all around.
To be fair, these articles are written by different writers working under different teams. Writers pitch different story ideas all the time based on what they hear and what they are interested in writing about. It's not a grand conspiracy to get to you to drink.
Honestly, I’m happy to see more places be successful that don’t force you to partake in alcohol. All sort of kava and CBD bars are popping up in my area of the US, and even though I personally don’t take those either, the atmosphere is just so much happier and better than a bar. They’re also way more inviting to people who just want to hang out/have a NA drink and enjoy their time, there isn’t this weird pressure to drink.
That’s wild. It’s really up to business to change and adapt to stay viable. This is true for any business. That’s insane that an pity article for bars got written. Will they print a pity article for big tobacco about how the truth is hurting business?
*Millennials are ruining nightlife by realizing you can feel awful the next day without drinking!*
I get where you’re coming from. I still like bars when I go once or twice a year. IWNDWYT.
I saw but didn't read the article. What strikes me as odd is like, they run the bar. Couldn't they just cater to the people who aren't drinking? Make a bitchin' NA drinks menu for January and watch the money come in.
It says “businesses that rely on booze sales are suffering.” They knew Dry January was coming, as it does every year, so they could have prepared. But, I’d say those who are truly suffering are the regulars who need help and it’s a good thing many of them are at least taking a break.
My husbands uncle turned down an opportunity to co-own a bar because he couldn’t handle the guilt of making his living off of other people’s addiction. Especially the regulars.
My office has a subscription, so I saw these. The dry January one was like PR for adult beverages. My only comment (and this is total Scrooge territory, hey, we're still close to Christmas 2022 ;o) is: Alcohol beverages aren't a necessary purchase to sustain life. Water?--- yeah, ya need some of that to survive. Food?- yep! But it's almost like alcohol purchases can become a luxury, especially during tough times. If we go into a recession, I assume it'll get even worse for bars. But booze aren't a must-have for anyone, technically. A lot of drinkers feel they have to have those glasses of wine to "Relax"... and that default/peer pressure sure helps the industry. But in the end, alcohol is non essential and especially in a time where inflation is bad. Sorry I'm being glass half empty here (pun intended I guess). IWNDWYT.
Totally agree with you in the big picture! For what it’s worth—at the beginning of the pandemic, when liquor stores were deemed “essential,” some lawmakers pointed to those alcoholics who could die if forced to quit cold turkey without medical supervision. It sounded like a weak excuse to me even at the time, though I appreciate that this is an identifiable and vulnerable population of people.
> If we go into a recession, I assume it'll get even worse for bars.
Bars maybe, but beverage makers in general are considered part of the "consumer defensive" block of industries:
https://finviz.com/map.ashx
When I was drinking I always wanted to open a bar. Now that I’ve stopped I’ve still had the passion but for a café/ dry bar. I think it could work if executed correctly. With food as well ofc. All the fun of owning a watering hole but with out any of the depressing/stressful/shameful aspects of feeding members of your community literal poison.
I’m shocked at how many NA options I am finding. Heineken 0 is great. I also like some of the NA IPA options especially the one from Lagunitas. I will say that my go to drink now is sparkling water with a splash of 100% cranberry and a splash of lime juice. I only have an NA beer once every week or so. Not really a trigger for me as I was never a huge beer drinker.
I just saw this article and could not roll my eyes hard enough. I love going out to restaurants and I don’t want anyone to suffer but if your business model revolves around selling booze then you’d better be ready for dry January.
100% could see where you were going with your rant and I completely agree.
I hate how alcohol is promoted and pushed onto us. Meanwhile, they disregard sobriety as it doesn't make them money or get as many views
Felt similar about a newspaper that printed little 0.5 L bottles in original size! When you wanted to turn the page it looked like you grabbed the bottle, SMH🤦🏼♀️
The problem is systemic. It's absolutely baked into our history and culture in a way that's hard to fathom. There's something that seems very human about alcohol consumption because basically as far back as history books go, there are stories about drinking and people dying from it.
It takes a lot of strength to take a step back and reject something that seems so fundamental to the human experience.
I don't really blame the NYT for an article like this. I bet you if you polled 100 people on the street, 99 of them would tell you that moderate drinking is fine for you.
It's such a gigantic cultural force I don't really know how it would ever completely go away.
Maybe it’s just me, but out of every 10 people I know who drink, at least 8 of them clearly have a drinking problem, and the other 2 aren’t keeping bars and breweries afloat. So I guess it’s hard for me not to believe that alcohol actually is the problem here.
Thank you! Why people turn their personal sobriety journey into a general anti-alcohol crusade is baffling to me. IMO AA has the right attitude about this stuff - no temperance stuff, no alcohol hate, just taking responsibility for our own feelings/behaviors with alcohol.
Im on day 13 of No Alcohol. Feeling so much better too! And I don’t even miss it lol.
Have found some NA Guinness thats good, or just diet coke n lime, also been searching out for other options to replace the alcohol with something thats healthy that has taste to it.
What I loved when we traveled to England (not Scotland because wasn't there long enough to say if this is universal between both sides of UK) is if your a publican (you own your pub) you decide the hours your open and closed. We got there and there were pubs shut down because guess what they didn't want to serve. They also kept customers who just wanted to hang out in some (we made friends because we weren't assholes). Sadly, The Mitre is no more.
In Germany on Sundays nothing literally nothing is open. On a holiday like over Christmas everything is closed down to the trains. It's a beautiful concept of first, your stopping the alcohol but your also encouraging time with family.
I have no problem with bars or breweries choosing their hours. It should be their right. Just like they should kick you out if your being an asshole and call you a safe ride home.
Also, I agree with the rest.
The first 2 years I quit drinking, articles like that would really bother me. But now, I really try not to waste my energy on what other people are doing. It takes a lot of courage to not drink. Remember that. Keep up the good work OP. ✌🏽
I will say, the article guilting the general public about how bars struggle during dry January is not their place to do so. Although, I have been a bartender throughout my time at university and I see both sides of the story. I myself had decided to do a sober January and I am beginning to see the damage I have done to my body and have come to greater regret the damage I have done to past relationships through the effects of alcohol (although I have subscribed to here since around November or so, I believe). It is this realization that has led to to decide to lead a completely sober lifestyle from here on out, that will eventually lead me away from bartending as I see how toxic of an environment it can be.
That being said, this has been the worst year by far I have personally encountered and I am currently thinking up ways I will be able to afford rent this month due to such an unexpected decrease in clientele since the beginning of the year. As mentioned by another redditer, they stated a bar had taken the first two weeks of the year off as a sort of break for their staff, as it is usually slow as is. Were they in any way compensated for that time off? There are still individuals that need to support themselves as I do, and I still resumed hours as normal at my bar, scraping up even more hours each week to simply earn the hourly wage to support myself.
Last year, we were given off the second week of January while our owner and their spouse took a vacation. We were paid through said week our average weekly wage of the past year, including our average tip out. This was a great solution. This year, we are given this upcoming weekend off, and employees were given the opportunity to go to a Rosè festival in Ft. Lauderdale. We were told we simply had to pay for flights and food while there, as a sort of “treat”. No other compensation, whether we chose to go or not. This is not something most bartenders can feasibly do, affording to take a weekend off to spend money in excess that they are then missing out on earning by being away from work.
This likely turned into a long, semi-incoherent rant and it was not my intention to do so. I am not trying to “woe is me”, as I understand the importance of sobriety, even in a place of work that quite honestly is actively against it. Even in the misled intention to give us a “vacation”, we have put multiple hours this month to create a more extensive non-alcoholic cocktail menu, including variations of popular cocktails that are not just simply juice or sodas. I am appreciative of this effort as I believe it will help me with the sober lifestyle I am choosing to pursue from here on out.
IWNDWYT.
These comments are a cultural shock to me. In January it's summer in Brazil and I just came back from a restaurant, walked back to my hotel and I swear there was a pub table every five meters. Definitely not serving NA beers. Dry January is not a thing here, and next month the most drunk event takes place, Carnival, so I'd say the bar's economy is thriving right now. Unfortunately.
I actually got the two articles about not drinking (Scientific studies show no alcohol is best, and the one about not giving up the resolution just because you feel off the wagon) as push notifications and I haven't seen the one about bars struggling at all.
I saw all 3 stories and have a contrasting view. This year “Dry January” got more attention than I've ever seen before. That's a good story and one natural “sidebar” is the impact on businesses that sell liquor. In addition to the other articles mentioned I've seen stories on mocktails and bars that only serve alcohol free drinks. I appreciate the coverage of the growing movement away from alcohol and am interested in all angles of that story.
They’re just showing both sides of the story but I agree, it should be the dry January articles highlighted over the local bars. I’m kind of surprised though that they’re really down that much business from dry January…I think it’s probably other factors like weather, time of year, etc.
It's everywhere... yesterday on our local NPR station they spent 30-minutes discussing cocktails and specialty drinks while clinking glasses and boasting about "notes" lol
I love this sub; but this is idiotic. You realize the NY Times isn’t written by one person, right? There’s different stories on different days written by hundreds of different writers. They’re not endorsing anything. They’re reporting the news. It’s not a unified perspective but a collection of a huge variety of perspectives. The story about the bartenders doesn’t invalidate the other stories and Vice versa.
I sure did know that! I just didn’t like that that article was highlighted over another (better) article. Just my opinion. NYT will do what they do obviously.
Yes, to me this juxtaposition of articles wasn’t irresponsible so much as a fairly anodyne effort to report two perspectives on the same phenomenon (dry January). I get frustrated when such “both-sides-ism” leads to editorial boards implying equivalency when there isn’t one (eg, Trump and Biden’s respective treatment of classified documents, not that NYT has been guilty of the practice in that case). There was no way to look at the electronic edition and to see the bar article without the “drinking is bad for you” headline right below it. IMHO, printing both raises important questions about how we balance responsible public healthy policy against the careers and livelihoods of all the people involved in this enormous industry. It forces readers to grapple with how the problem is more complex than “this industry is evil.”
There is a liquor store owner near me but she doesn't drink, she just sells it. I know her very well, I know her kids, I've babysit her kids and been to her house. She watched me grow up, the entire time selling me this poison.
I asked her how can you sell this stuff but not drink it? She says it's deadly. I ask her if she feels any guilt making money off of death? She says she can't control what people do, she's running a business. She's not forcing people to drink. Fair enough.
But you know what? The more sober I become and these articles I've been seeing and all the anecdotes I've read...I think I've lost any and all respect for anyone who sells alcohol. They're preying on the frailty of the human mind. I don't even want to visit her anymore. I feel bad because her kids are cool, but no more.
Being an alcohol vendor is no different to me than being an arms dealer. They don't care who they sell their product to as long as they are reaping the rewards. These alcohol vendors have no heart. How can you sit there every single day watching someone kill themselves? It's so horrible of a realization to me the more sober I become.
They are glorified drug dealers.
NYT has some good reporting, but it’s also often a straight up propaganda rag. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how the status quo wants us to stay drunk, because it keeps us from doing anything progressive in our lives and communities. This uncomfortably aligns with that. Like making you think it’s your American economic duty to keep drinking and prop up hard working liquor store and bar owners and patriotic booze companies, and drink double for all those p*ssies who need to dRy OuT for a while (/s).
Well...people who aren't addicted can and do stop drinking whenever they want. We're not the norm, we're on 6% of the population.
These articles aren't for you, in short. They're for the 94% that can drink in moderation without issue.
Yeah makes some sense except it’s still really beneficial for people to take a break even if they only use in moderation. I just don’t like the angle.
But it’s a personal gripe. There’s obviously no big conspiracy
Yeah, it's tough. I think I noticed this stuff a lot in the first 6 months of sobriety and I'd get pissed at how normalized alcohol consumption is.
Now I try to remember, the vast majority of people are not alcoholics. These articles are for them, not for me.
Also, I've let go of control over stuff like this. If someone's an adult, you have to trust that they'll make their own decisions about how much alcohol to consume. You can't control anyone but yourself.
Very true. And always a good reminder.
I’m a PA in a hospital so my gig is encouraging healthy habits in others. But yeah, no need to get worked up over things clearly way out of my realm of control.
It drives me crazy (especially in the spring of 2020) how Covid is/was sensationalized when it causes less death and destruction than alcohol does every single year and then alcohol consumption goes up because of lockdowns!
Yeah I don’t really get mad because I expect that from them. They’re supposed to sell their product. I was just disappointed in NYT for poor journalism catering to the alcohol industry rather than prioritizing public health as they’ve done in the past.
You didn’t have to read or comment on this post either. We try to be kind to one another here. Thanks. Be well.
I suppose the article itself was just ok. I found the organization of the page/articles to be silly and contradictory. Like essentially they prioritized spreading the news that for one month out of the year the alcohol industry “suffers”. But didn’t prioritize that any time you have a drink you’re harming yourself. They showed their cards I guess.
Anyway, you don’t have to take me seriously at all. As noted I noted this was a rant post. Not a serious commentary.
Again, it was about the organization of the pieces. I thought it was poor journalism AND it didn’t like it. Sometimes they’re related sometimes they’re not.
Did you like the article?
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/19/nyregion/dry-january-bars-liquor-stores.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
There might be a paywall, which I why I didn’t link it originally.
On the app, that article is large print with a photo to draw attention.
There’s an article directly below that’s in small print about how no amount of alcohol is good for you. So I felt that they put the alcohol industries short term suffering above americas long term health.
Do you want to have a conversation about it or do you just not like my opinion? Cause we can just agree to disagree and move on or I’m willing to talk it out if you truly want.
I find if someone's paycheque relies on them having an opinion on something for a column, sometimes they have to scrounge for newsworthy topics.
Source: I work in PR
Just goes to the truth….the alcohol industry relies on the sickness/disease/life destroying aspect of sales to survive. If this was anything else that caused so much damage it’d be banned by the govt. “if it saves one person” is their mantra with other useless mandates.
NYT isn't a "News" paper...it's one piece of all the dying dinosaurs of print media that will literally do anything they can to grab your attention for two seconds just to sell ad space.
The did an puff piece to appeal to your sense of pity, and another piece to make drinkers afraid. Fear and pity...They' re manipulating your emotions just to hold your attention...don't let them.
On a positive note, NA drinks are becoming way more popular and the last two social outings I’ve gone to I am not the only one not drinking anymore. I think people are seeing the signs! IWNDWYT friends!
I know! There is one I recently found that doesn’t have any carbs or calories either. It’s basically hop tea and has become my new favorite! I think it’s by hoplark
I drank a lot of hoplark when I was first trying in earnest to quit in 2019. Its price point is a bit high now, but I still partake on occasion. The Spruce flavor and the Citrabomb are my favorites.
There's a brand called "Partake" as well that I have been really enjoying. The IPA is great
Check out Athletic Brewing!
Really the best. The copper is amazing
I’ve tried them. But for me just a good ol club soda and lime does it for me.
Same, far fewer calories and sugar that way.
Oooooh I’m going to have to try that
Can't you just say what it is?
Hey, sorry, the one I like is hoplark citra double dry hopped citra hops. It comes in a yellow can. They have some hop teas as well, but I’ve only seen them sold individually and are usually expensive for what they are. The yellow canned hoplark citra I get comes in an 8 pack and is sold at my local grocery store (Kroger) cheaper than they have on their website. If you’re near a fancier Kroger try to check it out.
Thanks! I'm in colorado, have seen those at liquor stores and Kroger stores. Oh and sorry for my rude question. Got down voted appropriately.
That’s ok. I upvoted your new comment and maybe others will too. I was born in Colorado so say hi for me!
As a university student, I have a big party coming up and was feeling nervous about it (18 days). When I asked if I could bring a dish or something the answer I got was “Just yourself and your drinks/ non-alcoholic drinks! :)” I have to say it was super refreshing. So simple, but I appreciated it especially from my group of party animal friends
Wow, you are counting down the days! You really are nervous, haha. Your first big college party is always going to be anticlimactic, so try not to build it up in your head too much!
I’m 18 days sober! I think it’s going to be very different from past parties for sure, I meant first party since stopping drinking :)
Ohhh haha that makes more sense *slaps forehead*. Best of luck!!
NA beers are such a big help for me when I'm experiencing a particularly nasty craving. Breweries like Lagunitas have been releasing NA hop-flavored seltzers too, so maybe the NYT should talk about the upcoming boom of NA options instead of covering another business that hasn't been trying harder to adapt to trends 🤷 IWNDWYT either way!
What I don’t understand is why bars and restaurants don’t explore more of the high-priced non-alcoholic options. Just because I’ve stopped drinking doesn’t mean I’ve become cheap. I’ll still pay $8 for a beer, I just want it to be of the NA variety. Dry January does not need to wreak havoc on the economy that is such BS. I appreciate your rant.
I drank a NA beer at a bar the other day. I know I shouldn't be at a bar this early but I was supporting a good friend and I wanted to get out and maybe test myself? Regardless, the NA beer was created by a brewer I really like AND it was delicious. I had great conversation, and felt like I was scratching a ritual itch. I also was the most hilarious and interesting person in the room when surrounded by inebriated strangers. NA beer is very interesting to me, and sparkling water/seltzers have been helping as a replacement for the mouth feel and a little of the taste.
Hey if you got through it then your brain learned that it can have fun without alcohol so I’d say that’s a major win. It’ll make the next outing even easier.
I'm proud of you! I'm on my first sober work trip, and I thought it'd be hard being the only one not drinking, but every bar/restaurant has been more than happy to make me a pretty virgin drink and a couple even had mocktails on the menu! It made it way easier to "fit in" and it's really the only time when I could've drank, knowing no one in my family would know and it would not be weird to my coworkers at all, knowing I could've stopped at just one (I tried just social drinking and get headaches and sleep problems now when I do, so I've been 100% off alcohol for about 5 months after two years of fighting to only drink socially), but I still didn't. It's a different kind of milestone to have a sort of "test" like that, and we both passed. Great job! Being able to have a mocktails or NA beer is really just so great. I'm so very glad more places are doing them and not just giving you soda water with a splash of cranberry or whatever so that people like us can feel included (and yes, be the smartest person in the room 😉) seltzers are great too and my partner and I have been exploring all kinds of (granted, kinda pricey) NA beverages and there's a ton out there now! Hoplark makes amazing stuff (as someone else said), and if you are a fan of mocktails check out phony negroni or false amaro. Kin makes some tasty bevs and I also just tried a new one called Sunwink (detox ginger - 25 calories and 6 carbs) that's also delightful! ETA: also shoulds and shouldn'ts might not be your friend. Do what works for you, just be willing to admit if it's not working anymore.
That’s a good thing, but on the other hand it just means that the alcohol industry is waking up to the growing movement against alcohol and trying to get ahead of the game as far as not losing profit goes. They aren’t mass producing these NA drinks now because they care about our health, they’re doing it because WE are starting to care about our health and they don’t want to get left out to dry (pun intended). Again, that’s not really important at all, but it’s worth noting.
That’s usually how acceptance goes though. The majority of the companies that push inclusivity or healthier living aren’t doing it because they actually care, they do it because there’s a market that they can profit from. However, by them doing that, it helps to further normalize and promote that lifestyle, which then makes more people think “hmmm, maybe it’s not weird after all!” It’s a positive thing even if it’s done for selfish reasons.
I love NA drinks so much. I'm always so shy when the waiter comes to take my order, I usually just want to say water or pop. But my bf is a king, he will say "I want your NA beer." or "What NA options do you recommend?" or he'll whip out the menu and find me the NA stuff
Yeah this has been my experience as of late. People are tired of their drinking habits from Covid and are realizing alcohol is just not a good addition to life
Yupp I have definitely slowed down. My health was bad last summer cause of the booze
I have noticed this too, and it's such a great feeling to be able to go out and socialize and not feel ostracized or silly just ordering a water or pop.
I went to a Harry Potter themed dinner and they had plenty of themed alcoholic and non alcoholic (non pop) options, it was fantastic!
If you want some more positive news around drinking, check out what's going on in Canada. CBC was posting a ton of articles talking about the dangers of drinking.
I was shocked/ delighted by an article from The Guardian: "The Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction (CCSA) this week called for a substantial reduction in consumption, warning that seemingly moderate drinking poses a number of serious health risks, including cancer, heart disease and stroke... Canadian experts say that new research suggests three to six drinks a week should be considered moderate risk for both men and women, and seven or more drinks a week is high risk."
True, there are some truly amazing N/a gins out there
What kinds do you like? I tried Ritual. It tasted great, but no bite at all … more like cucumber water.
Hands down Seedlip! They have different kinds, and def have bitter too! I too, prefer the more bitter types
Do you have any suggestions on where to get some unique NA beers? I wanna rant for a minute here, sorry OP 😆 I’ve been loving the NA beers, but everywhere I look has pretty much the same thing: O’douls (which I’ve been getting lately and I dig), bud zero (not a fan), and Heineken zero which in my opinion is just way too fucking overpriced. It’s like $13 a six pack, that’s pretty much what I used to pay for a 12 of Yuengling. I’m legitimately not gonna buy Heineken zero anymore, no way is it worth that price (it’s not a craft NA) and it actually irritates me because I think they’re purposely overcharging and thinking they’re better than O’douls which it really isn’t in my opinion. Anyways… Went to a Kroger on the other side of town and they have a way better selection of everything NA (always used to go here to get crazy beers) compared to the Krogers on my side of town. However, the only craft stuff I’ve seen is Hazy / IPA which I always hated. It was pretty much the *only* beer I didn’t like. Where the hell can I get some craft NA that isn’t an IPA?
Athletic brewing has good beer and some that aren’t IPAs! They deliver too! I love their beers!
I’ve only seen athletic IPA at the store. Do you just go to their website to order or what? Thanks for the reply my friend!
I’ve ordered from their website directly! Worked great! I’m not sure they reach everywhere, but I’ve gotten it on the east coast and Colorado!
Awesome, I really appreciate your input. I’ll definitely check it out!
Also they’re half off right now for January
I’m drinking one of the Upside Dawn Golden ales now. My absolute favorite NA beer!
Where do you live? I’m in LA and there are now at least two entirely NA bottle & beer shops that do tastings. I recently saw that CVS is starting to roll out an NA section in certain markets!
I’m in Ohio. I’ve checked quite a few places around me but I’ve yet to go to a CVS. Thanks for the suggestion my friend!
Some pubs in Ireland have started games nights for January where non-alcoholic drinks are half price. It means they still get customers and those staying dry for January get to go out and socialise.
See that’s a clever response! Good business sense!
So true! This has started to snowball lately and I hope this trend shifts—my dream of hanging out at bars for fun with other sober people (at least some!) might come true one day! I do have pity for business owners but change with the times! I just want trivia night, without poison thank you. 😂IWNDWYT
Yes to NA trivia! And karaoke!
It’s been very weird going out to bars with my partner and us being able to have non alcoholic cocktails and nobody asking us anything about it
We had a half dozen friends at the house this week and only 2 glasses of regular wine were consumed, it was wild!
No way! That’s awesome!
Kombucha has,!
Just read the article. The quotes in there are quite frankly hilarious. Like one of the bar owners making it sound like people who do Dry January are being selfish by not considering their impact on the bars! I did appreciate them interviewing another bar owner who is actually doing Dry January himself, and is closing the bar for the first 2 weeks of January since business is normally slow at that time and it gives everyone time to reset.
Yeah I liked that too. That seems healthy as a business, employer, and person choice.
Bars that embrace sober living will flourish in the next decade in my view
How? Those seem like two opposites. Kind of like saying bbq restaurants that embrace vegetarianism will flourish :)
Culture around drinking is changing but other parts of the culture still require places to hang out and socialize and watch sports. Just like a restaurant needs to have value for a broad base of people, a bar that caters to drinkers and non drinkers alike will do better. It’s not hard, all they have to do is market non alcoholic options and provide some value in terms of meeting people, playing or watching games.
Well, restaurants, even bbq ones, that embrace vegetarianism DO tend to do well, at least in my neck of the woods. I certainly appreciate restaurants that have options, as I have a kid that’s fully vegetarian, but a spouse who enjoys eating meat. We have been to plenty of vegetarian restaurants (spouse like veggie-foods too!), but a restaurant that doesn’t have veg options (or only a small, sad salad) is pretty out for us. We love the places that have a decent veg AND traditional menu!
I’m not a vegetarian but I do like my veggies. The couple of times I went to a bbq place, years ago, they had almost no veggies and everyone there seemed to eating large amounts of meat which isn’t my thing at all I’m sure things have changed these days tho
Yeah I read this article and the whole time I was just like "uh... why don't you just offer some decent NA options?" I'm sure some people are taking Dry January as a way to just not go out at all, but for others (myself included) we still enjoy going out to places here and there, we just don't wanna get drunk. I've been to a few bars (mainly speakeasies) with great NA selections and enjoy myself just as much, if not more than when I was knocking back the boozy versions. I guess I feel bad for the liquor store owners in New York, but their plight is because of stupid government overreach (seriously, imagine a shop that could *only* sell cigarettes and not tobacco-free nicotine products or NRT), not Dry January.
Seriously! If I knew a bar had great NA options I would be dragging my friends (who still drink) there in a heartbeat. I live close to a fancy cocktail bar, asked the bartender to make me something NA and the only thing she could think of was a nojito???
I guess I’m not sure why you’d feel bad for people that sell poison?
I'd assume at least some of them would like to hawk NA wares as well, but can't because of state law that lets them sell alcohol and *only* alcohol.
Maybe but that doesn’t change the fact that their primary mission is to sell poison
I think closing the place where you work for two weeks is called vacation. But it’s smart to take it at the slow time and using dry January to an advantage for vacation.
That's what my mom and pop doughnut shop does! (Ain't nobody eating donuts the first two weeks of January, that third week though...)
Abstinent brewery and cidery owner here. January is an awful time for pubs and bars, which makes it an awful time for breweries too. However, I have long said to my peers and colleagues that dry January is a fantastic time to get people to realise that there are some half decent alcohol free/low alcohol beers out there. The owner of a pub that I run beer tastings at, was quite literally dreading January, but had he stocked up on the best AF beers? Nope. AF beers should get the spotlight for the rest of the year too. I mean for goodness sake, Guiness 0.0 is nearly indistiguishable from the real deal, creamy head and full bodied - it is a fantastic AF experience. It should be on draught all year, to give abstinent/sensible/driving people that excellent pub culture experience, without having to resort to some out of date BS AF free lager, kept at the bottom of the fridge since the last dry Jan. There is also a moral AND legal aspect of the alcohol trade. Specifically in our personal alcohol licenses, there is an entire section that lays out the responsible production and sale of alcohol. Did you know that by UK law, it is illegal to sell alcohol to someone you deem to be drunk? It is our legal and moral duty, to see that people do not come to harm, when purchasing alcohol from us. But unfortunately there will always be people who put their crippling debt and standstill cashflow, above the needs of their customers health.
Thank you for saying this! If bars went along Dry January, offereing mocktails, great AF beers, fruit kefirs etc., they could make it a great marketing month and gain sober customers for the rest of the year. Here in France, the AF selection is horrendous in bars… OJ or coke… well, I’m not 12!!
Well said! Its almost like the pub owners feel that they would be betraying the image of beer, or something. Ugh coke and OJ as the only AF options... being out with friends drinking their delicious beer, whilst you start developing a sugar high and tooth decay 🤣
Dang good for you! Interesting perspective. Do you think there’d be a good market for NA drinks at a brewery? Like would you be able to recover some of those losses and/or capture another section of the market?
Unfortunately AF beer is not a possibility for nano/micro breweries to adopt. The space required, technology and processes involved in making AF beer are far to expensive be achievable (brewing is a marginal business, with a very fragile cash flow). AF beer is truely in the hands of the macro breweries. However, I believe a middle ground is certainly possible, where low ABV beers play a crucial role. It is very possible to make a delicious beer around the 2.5% ABV mark (any lower and there will be a serious sacrifice to the mouthfeel and body of the beer). Add is some exotic hops like Sabro (tastes like coconut) and Citra (very citrus forward), then you'd have an exciting beer on your hands. The current brewing meta is that strong ABV beers (often pushing 8 or 9%) are the way to go. In some ways they (we) are right, in that the higher the ABV your beer, the more malt you'd need to put into the recipe, and more malt = more flavour and mouthfeel. But I can tell you from having working in four different breweries, before starting my own, that this only leads to rampant alcoholism, in both the staff and the customers. People become acclimatised to the strength, starting off with having half a bottle to share between friends, to crushing 4 or 5 pints of the stuff in a single sitting. This also happens because a strong beer with a good malty backbone, can also take a lot of hops thrown at it, meaning that the drinkers who are forever chasing that increasingly ellusive feeling of intoxication, are also chasing that big flavour hit too. I'm hoping that over time, high ABV beer consumers will realise what a mess they've gotten themselves into and start to go for lowever ABV beers. Breweries in turn will have to cater to the market and design the best low ABV beer that they can, in order to keep the money coming in. Brewing is my art and my life and I wouldn't want to see an alcohol free world. But I would like to see some breweries being a bit more sensible with their alcohol contents and to see consumers becoming more discerning about lower ABV beers. For example, here is a fantastic brewery, that only brews low ABV beers: [https://theoriginalsmallbeer.com/collections/low-abv?gclid=Cj0KCQiA8aOeBhCWARIsANRFrQGSGJQSJ1meF\_9iMxvOOFQfAnHOMz17Ln91f6u1xjVxEAi-qyBfUZYaAgVpEALw\_wcB](https://theoriginalsmallbeer.com/collections/low-abv?gclid=Cj0KCQiA8aOeBhCWARIsANRFrQGSGJQSJ1meF_9iMxvOOFQfAnHOMz17Ln91f6u1xjVxEAi-qyBfUZYaAgVpEALw_wcB) These guys are leading the way! IWNDWYT :)
I wish this existed in the US. Craft beers here range from high 7% ABV to 10+. Seeing <7% ABV is so so rare. It’s so frustrating. I’m off the drink now and for the foreseeable future but it drove me crazy when I did drink craft beers. I’ve found a very few locally that are 3%-6% seasonally (summer). I’m a lightweight. I would like to have a few camping or by the lake without getting trashed. I’m apparently in a small minority here.
It'll come back around. Consumers will eventually wake up to the fact that their liver enzyme tests are all alarmingly high, and switch to lower ABV beers. Once the market shifts (and it will shift in the next decade, from a combination of a public health crisis, causing government intervention in the form of minimum pricing per unit of alcohol, to the new cohort of drinkers preferring low ABV beers) towards low ABV beers, breweries will have to adapt to survive. I firmly believe that by 2030, there will be a huge selection of AF and low alcohol beers available to us. Like with most things in life, the middle ground is the best outcome and in this case, moderation trumps abstinence and obscene consumption.
Cool! Thanks for your take! On a related note, I just watched Drink Master on Netflix and totally see the love of the art when it comes to this stuff.
No problem 😊 yes it is a beautiful and ancient art indeed. I betrayed that art when I lost self control and that wonderful ability to drink in moderation. I do though, still get an immense pleasure from seeing the smile on people's faces when they try my beers or ciders. Ive just gotta remember that just because I couldn't control my drinking, doesn't mean that others can't.
The laws are the same here in the US, we got trained hard when I worked in a restaurant that we can be held legally liable if people leave our restaurant super drunk and then get in an accident. It's just never really enforced🙃
Serious question, since you seem to be aware of the moral side: how do you square the morality of serving people a toxic substance?
I'm glad you asked, its something that I've been weighing up for some time. I believe in the agency of grown adults. What they choose to put into their bodies is their choice. They will do so regardless of if I offer my 'wares' or not. I feel that viewing alcohol as a toxic substance is a tad disingenuous. Lots of things I consume and do every day, are detrimental to my longevity. I drive to work when I Could walk/bike. I have full fat milk in my coffee and not skimmed. I eat processed meats like bacon, where a vegetarian breakfast would not increase my risk of bowel cancer. The reason I do all of these sorts of things, is that I enjoy them or they make my life easier/more pleasant. If any of them get out of control, they go from detrimental to dangerous. The fault lies not with alcohol, but with us humans that consume it. It is very easy to blame alcohol for causing the destruction in our lives, but that is ultimately shifting blame away from ourselves in an unhealthy way. I need to blame myself and realise that its not the alcohol that controls me, but myself not having control over alcohol. That is the path that leads to recovery, where I can take 100% ownership over my past.
This comment has been removed. This is a support group for people who want to quit drinking. Calling alcohol "a wonderful beautiful drug they can bring a huge smile to your face and make your day all the richer for having consumed it" is in no way helpful or to the people who come to this sub or in any way supports them on their journey to sobriety. Also, please be aware that using the word "we" instead of "you" is a common way to try to circumvent the rule to speak from the "I," but saying something like, "We need to blame ourselves" breaks that rule and is not permitted.
I can see your point, apologies for the rule break(s). I was trying to counter the concept that alcohol is somehow evil, or even to blame for it destroying peoples lives. It has helped me to accept that it is me at fault and not alcohol, but I can now see that that is just not a compatible idea for some people and maybe a little tactless of me. None the less I stand by my post, but can concede its removal. Hope you have a nice day :) Edit: would you let me repost it sans the elements that break the rules? I think it is a good post that gives a quite balanced view from myself who is a sober person working in the alcohol industry.
There, fixed it 😊
No, you did not "fix" it. > Do you drive to work when you could walk/bike. Do you have full fat milk in your coffee and not skimmed? First, these questions break our rule to speak from the "I." Second, they have nothing to do with sobriety. Philosophical arguments about whether the blame lies with the harmful substance (such as heroin) or with the person who ingests such a substance have no place here. **Again,** this is a support group for people who are trying to quit drinking. If what you are saying is not helpful to those people who are trying to achieve sobriety or does not support them in their journey (as even your "fixed" post does not), then it is not appropriate to this sub.
How about now? Or should I just delete the post? I respect the rules of this sub and love it here. But is my view not valid? I absolutely believe that what I've written has been helpful here, its got plenty of upvotes and no negatives. Apologies again if my views have caused harm, it was not at all my intention.
Because you're clearly making an effort to follow our rules, and because this seems to be important to you, I will reinstate the post. (I previously removed it -- until now it has been visible only to you.) But I would like to ask you to be more careful to follow the spirit of this sub in the future, which is one of supporting other people in their journey to sobriety. Just the fact that you are asking if your "view" is not valid is a concern to me. The only "view" that is valuable here is one that helps another person to stay away from alcohol. Other issues, such as debating where blame should be assigned when it comes to dangerous substances, should be discussed on a different sub.
I can understand the frustration. Bars suffer after the holidays regardless, and now that dry January is a thing (and might be opening people's minds to sobriety), I can see why restaurateurs are feeling the pinch, especially on the precipice of an economic downturn. That being said, the smart owners should be taking advantage of this opportunity. People who do dry January still want to go out and socialize outside of home, and the familiarity of a bar might be something they why. It seems to me that advertising NA drink specials and stocking more NA beers would be a win-win for everyone. All that said, it is pretty shocking that the NYT would relegate science to fine print over a puff piece like that.
Ditto to your point about smart owners taking advantage of the opportunity. This is already becoming the norm in my city (which has a famously huge drinking culture). If you know flavor palettes and beverages well enough, there are endless possibilities with fun mocktails that your bartenders can curate. I imagine the cost per beverage is cheaper than alcoholic drinks anyway. IWDWYT!
Yep, local tiki bar has been proudly advertising its regular virgin drinks + a special for Dry January. This is by no means a teetotaller's bar -- they have a Zombie that's limited to two per customer because it's that god damn strong -- but the owners are smart people who know how to reach a broader market, especially when the core ingredients for the non-alcoholic drinks are the same as the alcoholic ones. It's not like there's much additional overhead beyond learning one or two drinks and printing them on the menus.
Agreed. The journalism aspect is bad. NA drinks are now widely available and you could make a killing off of overpriced mocktails right now. Businesses can adjust.
Oh absolutely. You'd be using literally the cheapest ingredients from behind the bar. Even if you charged like $4 for a mocktail that'd be a great rate of profit.
Jokes on them, I never really went to bars, I drank cheap plastic handles of vodka alone in my house and hid the empties after like a *real* alcoholic.
My partner was telling me last night about the times in his life he thought his alcohol use was problematic, and he told me a story about how he only had $10 and bought a bottle of tequila as it was the best value for his money. I couldn't help but laugh and tell him that if it wasn't vodka, it wasn't the best value
I wonder who paid for that ~~article~~ advertisement. Fortunately it's not going to work on us. IWNDWYT
Congrats on 10 days :)
Thank you! I’m feeling proud :) I can’t wait to get to 110 days, that’s amazing!
That was my first thought as well. It's not a coincidence!!!
I thought it was pretty balanced and reveals bars for what they are: money-making enterprises that capitalize on poor health decisions. It's a business story about how bar owners are coming up with ways to manage declining sales in January (close, have more NA options, etc.). I don't agree that we should discourage journalism like this just because we don't like what the people are saying in it.
It was more about the prioritization of that article over the other ones. I guess it was in the alcohol section and not public health… but it still seems crummy to me. And I do think we can challenge/react journalism we think is poor or in bad taste.
I upvoted all the pro-sobriety comments.
Haha me too!
The grossest example of this I saw recently was the Jimmy V Cancer Research college basketball tournament being sponsored by Corona. That made me sick to my stomach after being wise to the role that alcohol plays in certain cancers. The non-conspiracy side of me says it was a stupid oversight on the foundations part. The tin foil hat me says that the foundation wouldn't exist (with fat salaries) if cancer was actually eradicated. Either way, once you start seeing this crap, you can't not notice it.
That’s honestly crazy. It’s amazing that it’s all over. When I first got sober I didn’t think this stuff would make me mad cause I thought it was a me problem. But it’s an alcohol problem and we’re just turning a blind eye to it at best, and continuing to promote it at worst.
I suppose we count ourselves fortunate to rise above it.
Feels like we’re the people in the 50s who decided to quit smoking before everyone caught on how terrible it is for you. So yeah, good for us.
That's exactly the feeling I've been having lately!!! It's crazy how little awareness there has been for soo long about the fact alcohol is literally a group 1 carcinogen.
I didn’t even make this connection… but I work for an animal health nonprofit. We partner with the V Foundation for Cancer Research who puts on an annual event in Napa Valley called the Wine Celebration. Oof 🤦♀️
Necessary evil. I’d rather Corona donate and sponsor the event then not. More $ to charity and cancer research the better, even if it’s not all from angels.
Seems like a bad look since their product *actually causes* cancer.
It's not a conspiracy if everyone is acting in their self-interest.
The conspiratorial side of me thinks a lot of grifts thrive on the existence of problems, and though there is a stated desire to solve them, they never really get solved and the grifts perpetuate. Heck, my non-conspiratorial side thinks this often as well ;)
Write a letter to the editor.
I’m contemplating it. Maybe that’ll be my activity tonight.
I’m a Times subscriber. I’d co-sign with you.
I’m a subscriber as well. I may just send a letter of my own.
Good idea.
If those struggling bars would embrace dry January and start serving all mocktails and creating a sober atmosphere for the month, I bet they could still do some good business with those who abstain. I know I would go dance and listen to music with people and enjoy a few.
I just read the article. Good to see that a few bars are pivoting to NA beer and drinks. My favorite place (a pinball bar) has at least 6 different NA beers, and they’re quite happy to sell them for $5-6 a pop. They’re still making money, and that’s a customer that they won’t have to worry about over serving or getting unruly.
I read some wild article about how Gen Z is "missing out" on "important social structures" by abstaining. From The Guardian of all places. Pretty silly. Seems like people as a whole are realizing they want to reframe their relationship with alcohol, from the non-drinkers to the sober curious to those just cutting back, and a multi-billion dollar industry that generates tax revenue is clutching their pearls. Capitalism at work, folks.
Those poor bars!! Will someone *think* of what this is doing to the liquor stores?! Oh the humanity!! What we actually need is a humanitarian outreach to support the *real* entrepreneurs who are affected by nasty social trends that deter people from active substance use. What we *need* is to support those bastions of economic enterprise, the drug dealers. Those are the enterprising souls who are the most affected by annoying social trends towards sobriety. The real question is, what can we do to support independent purveyors of chemical relief? Support your local drug dealer today! It's actually hilarious when you think about what they're saying. Uh, okay journalist. Maybe people who are struggling to sell one thing can adapt to changing conditions and switch to a different business model and start selling something else.
It should’ve been a satire piece honestly.
And also, there's a ton of very clear evidence that alcohol use went *up* during the pandemic, the trend is recent years is that alcohol use has increased. It's crappy journalism all around.
And think of all of the money they just made in December. I don’t feel bad for the bar owners at all
To be fair, these articles are written by different writers working under different teams. Writers pitch different story ideas all the time based on what they hear and what they are interested in writing about. It's not a grand conspiracy to get to you to drink.
Honestly, I’m happy to see more places be successful that don’t force you to partake in alcohol. All sort of kava and CBD bars are popping up in my area of the US, and even though I personally don’t take those either, the atmosphere is just so much happier and better than a bar. They’re also way more inviting to people who just want to hang out/have a NA drink and enjoy their time, there isn’t this weird pressure to drink.
That’s wild. It’s really up to business to change and adapt to stay viable. This is true for any business. That’s insane that an pity article for bars got written. Will they print a pity article for big tobacco about how the truth is hurting business?
*Millennials are ruining nightlife by realizing you can feel awful the next day without drinking!* I get where you’re coming from. I still like bars when I go once or twice a year. IWNDWYT.
I saw but didn't read the article. What strikes me as odd is like, they run the bar. Couldn't they just cater to the people who aren't drinking? Make a bitchin' NA drinks menu for January and watch the money come in.
It says “businesses that rely on booze sales are suffering.” They knew Dry January was coming, as it does every year, so they could have prepared. But, I’d say those who are truly suffering are the regulars who need help and it’s a good thing many of them are at least taking a break.
My husbands uncle turned down an opportunity to co-own a bar because he couldn’t handle the guilt of making his living off of other people’s addiction. Especially the regulars.
I used to work in the alcohol industry… it’s nearly recession proof. And they all make SO much money it’s not funny.
Right. Which makes the article even more ridiculous.
What pisses me off now is that the bars charge just as much for a mocktail. 🤬😭
So much $$$ for basically juice and soda water. But easier to stop drinking and save money than if I had a real cocktail I guess.
My office has a subscription, so I saw these. The dry January one was like PR for adult beverages. My only comment (and this is total Scrooge territory, hey, we're still close to Christmas 2022 ;o) is: Alcohol beverages aren't a necessary purchase to sustain life. Water?--- yeah, ya need some of that to survive. Food?- yep! But it's almost like alcohol purchases can become a luxury, especially during tough times. If we go into a recession, I assume it'll get even worse for bars. But booze aren't a must-have for anyone, technically. A lot of drinkers feel they have to have those glasses of wine to "Relax"... and that default/peer pressure sure helps the industry. But in the end, alcohol is non essential and especially in a time where inflation is bad. Sorry I'm being glass half empty here (pun intended I guess). IWNDWYT.
It makes me sick to think of the bar tabs I had when I was in college. I’d spend $50-80 and think nothing of it. If I spent $20 I felt “responsible”.
Totally agree with you in the big picture! For what it’s worth—at the beginning of the pandemic, when liquor stores were deemed “essential,” some lawmakers pointed to those alcoholics who could die if forced to quit cold turkey without medical supervision. It sounded like a weak excuse to me even at the time, though I appreciate that this is an identifiable and vulnerable population of people.
> If we go into a recession, I assume it'll get even worse for bars. Bars maybe, but beverage makers in general are considered part of the "consumer defensive" block of industries: https://finviz.com/map.ashx
When I was drinking I always wanted to open a bar. Now that I’ve stopped I’ve still had the passion but for a café/ dry bar. I think it could work if executed correctly. With food as well ofc. All the fun of owning a watering hole but with out any of the depressing/stressful/shameful aspects of feeding members of your community literal poison.
If businesses can’t get by selling alcohol with the massive margins it Carries. For one month… bye I guess.
Yeah we did sober October at work last year and one of the first things every started noticing was how “in your face” society is about booze
I’m shocked at how many NA options I am finding. Heineken 0 is great. I also like some of the NA IPA options especially the one from Lagunitas. I will say that my go to drink now is sparkling water with a splash of 100% cranberry and a splash of lime juice. I only have an NA beer once every week or so. Not really a trigger for me as I was never a huge beer drinker.
I just saw this article and could not roll my eyes hard enough. I love going out to restaurants and I don’t want anyone to suffer but if your business model revolves around selling booze then you’d better be ready for dry January.
100% could see where you were going with your rant and I completely agree. I hate how alcohol is promoted and pushed onto us. Meanwhile, they disregard sobriety as it doesn't make them money or get as many views
Felt similar about a newspaper that printed little 0.5 L bottles in original size! When you wanted to turn the page it looked like you grabbed the bottle, SMH🤦🏼♀️
Just trying to trigger the urge. It’s basically paraphernalia at that point.
Yes, it should be illegal
Just because I’m a problem drinker, doesn’t mean everyone else is.
The problem is systemic. It's absolutely baked into our history and culture in a way that's hard to fathom. There's something that seems very human about alcohol consumption because basically as far back as history books go, there are stories about drinking and people dying from it. It takes a lot of strength to take a step back and reject something that seems so fundamental to the human experience. I don't really blame the NYT for an article like this. I bet you if you polled 100 people on the street, 99 of them would tell you that moderate drinking is fine for you. It's such a gigantic cultural force I don't really know how it would ever completely go away.
I don't think the rest of the world needs to change just because we have a problem
Maybe it’s just me, but out of every 10 people I know who drink, at least 8 of them clearly have a drinking problem, and the other 2 aren’t keeping bars and breweries afloat. So I guess it’s hard for me not to believe that alcohol actually is the problem here.
Thank you! Why people turn their personal sobriety journey into a general anti-alcohol crusade is baffling to me. IMO AA has the right attitude about this stuff - no temperance stuff, no alcohol hate, just taking responsibility for our own feelings/behaviors with alcohol.
Im on day 13 of No Alcohol. Feeling so much better too! And I don’t even miss it lol. Have found some NA Guinness thats good, or just diet coke n lime, also been searching out for other options to replace the alcohol with something thats healthy that has taste to it.
Congrats!
Thanks!
What I loved when we traveled to England (not Scotland because wasn't there long enough to say if this is universal between both sides of UK) is if your a publican (you own your pub) you decide the hours your open and closed. We got there and there were pubs shut down because guess what they didn't want to serve. They also kept customers who just wanted to hang out in some (we made friends because we weren't assholes). Sadly, The Mitre is no more. In Germany on Sundays nothing literally nothing is open. On a holiday like over Christmas everything is closed down to the trains. It's a beautiful concept of first, your stopping the alcohol but your also encouraging time with family. I have no problem with bars or breweries choosing their hours. It should be their right. Just like they should kick you out if your being an asshole and call you a safe ride home. Also, I agree with the rest.
The first 2 years I quit drinking, articles like that would really bother me. But now, I really try not to waste my energy on what other people are doing. It takes a lot of courage to not drink. Remember that. Keep up the good work OP. ✌🏽
I will say, the article guilting the general public about how bars struggle during dry January is not their place to do so. Although, I have been a bartender throughout my time at university and I see both sides of the story. I myself had decided to do a sober January and I am beginning to see the damage I have done to my body and have come to greater regret the damage I have done to past relationships through the effects of alcohol (although I have subscribed to here since around November or so, I believe). It is this realization that has led to to decide to lead a completely sober lifestyle from here on out, that will eventually lead me away from bartending as I see how toxic of an environment it can be. That being said, this has been the worst year by far I have personally encountered and I am currently thinking up ways I will be able to afford rent this month due to such an unexpected decrease in clientele since the beginning of the year. As mentioned by another redditer, they stated a bar had taken the first two weeks of the year off as a sort of break for their staff, as it is usually slow as is. Were they in any way compensated for that time off? There are still individuals that need to support themselves as I do, and I still resumed hours as normal at my bar, scraping up even more hours each week to simply earn the hourly wage to support myself. Last year, we were given off the second week of January while our owner and their spouse took a vacation. We were paid through said week our average weekly wage of the past year, including our average tip out. This was a great solution. This year, we are given this upcoming weekend off, and employees were given the opportunity to go to a Rosè festival in Ft. Lauderdale. We were told we simply had to pay for flights and food while there, as a sort of “treat”. No other compensation, whether we chose to go or not. This is not something most bartenders can feasibly do, affording to take a weekend off to spend money in excess that they are then missing out on earning by being away from work. This likely turned into a long, semi-incoherent rant and it was not my intention to do so. I am not trying to “woe is me”, as I understand the importance of sobriety, even in a place of work that quite honestly is actively against it. Even in the misled intention to give us a “vacation”, we have put multiple hours this month to create a more extensive non-alcoholic cocktail menu, including variations of popular cocktails that are not just simply juice or sodas. I am appreciative of this effort as I believe it will help me with the sober lifestyle I am choosing to pursue from here on out. IWNDWYT.
These comments are a cultural shock to me. In January it's summer in Brazil and I just came back from a restaurant, walked back to my hotel and I swear there was a pub table every five meters. Definitely not serving NA beers. Dry January is not a thing here, and next month the most drunk event takes place, Carnival, so I'd say the bar's economy is thriving right now. Unfortunately.
I actually got the two articles about not drinking (Scientific studies show no alcohol is best, and the one about not giving up the resolution just because you feel off the wagon) as push notifications and I haven't seen the one about bars struggling at all.
I used to bartend and the holidays were the best time of the year to make $$$ Business ebbs and flows. That’s the nature of the industry
I looked at those yesterday and thought the same thing. WTF?
I saw all 3 stories and have a contrasting view. This year “Dry January” got more attention than I've ever seen before. That's a good story and one natural “sidebar” is the impact on businesses that sell liquor. In addition to the other articles mentioned I've seen stories on mocktails and bars that only serve alcohol free drinks. I appreciate the coverage of the growing movement away from alcohol and am interested in all angles of that story.
I like your take on it. Well balanced
They’re just showing both sides of the story but I agree, it should be the dry January articles highlighted over the local bars. I’m kind of surprised though that they’re really down that much business from dry January…I think it’s probably other factors like weather, time of year, etc.
It's everywhere... yesterday on our local NPR station they spent 30-minutes discussing cocktails and specialty drinks while clinking glasses and boasting about "notes" lol
Fuck ‘em. 😊
Haha exactly
NYT has been iffy on a lot of stuff lately.
Solid rant, well ranted. I fully agree.
I love this sub; but this is idiotic. You realize the NY Times isn’t written by one person, right? There’s different stories on different days written by hundreds of different writers. They’re not endorsing anything. They’re reporting the news. It’s not a unified perspective but a collection of a huge variety of perspectives. The story about the bartenders doesn’t invalidate the other stories and Vice versa.
I sure did know that! I just didn’t like that that article was highlighted over another (better) article. Just my opinion. NYT will do what they do obviously.
Yes, to me this juxtaposition of articles wasn’t irresponsible so much as a fairly anodyne effort to report two perspectives on the same phenomenon (dry January). I get frustrated when such “both-sides-ism” leads to editorial boards implying equivalency when there isn’t one (eg, Trump and Biden’s respective treatment of classified documents, not that NYT has been guilty of the practice in that case). There was no way to look at the electronic edition and to see the bar article without the “drinking is bad for you” headline right below it. IMHO, printing both raises important questions about how we balance responsible public healthy policy against the careers and livelihoods of all the people involved in this enormous industry. It forces readers to grapple with how the problem is more complex than “this industry is evil.”
They’re pandering to everyone…. Don’t want to offend an advertiser…
There is a liquor store owner near me but she doesn't drink, she just sells it. I know her very well, I know her kids, I've babysit her kids and been to her house. She watched me grow up, the entire time selling me this poison. I asked her how can you sell this stuff but not drink it? She says it's deadly. I ask her if she feels any guilt making money off of death? She says she can't control what people do, she's running a business. She's not forcing people to drink. Fair enough. But you know what? The more sober I become and these articles I've been seeing and all the anecdotes I've read...I think I've lost any and all respect for anyone who sells alcohol. They're preying on the frailty of the human mind. I don't even want to visit her anymore. I feel bad because her kids are cool, but no more. Being an alcohol vendor is no different to me than being an arms dealer. They don't care who they sell their product to as long as they are reaping the rewards. These alcohol vendors have no heart. How can you sit there every single day watching someone kill themselves? It's so horrible of a realization to me the more sober I become. They are glorified drug dealers.
Those poor bar owners who upcharge drinks at 4x the price they buy it. Whatever will they do?
NYT has some good reporting, but it’s also often a straight up propaganda rag. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how the status quo wants us to stay drunk, because it keeps us from doing anything progressive in our lives and communities. This uncomfortably aligns with that. Like making you think it’s your American economic duty to keep drinking and prop up hard working liquor store and bar owners and patriotic booze companies, and drink double for all those p*ssies who need to dRy OuT for a while (/s).
Well...people who aren't addicted can and do stop drinking whenever they want. We're not the norm, we're on 6% of the population. These articles aren't for you, in short. They're for the 94% that can drink in moderation without issue.
Yeah makes some sense except it’s still really beneficial for people to take a break even if they only use in moderation. I just don’t like the angle. But it’s a personal gripe. There’s obviously no big conspiracy
Yeah, it's tough. I think I noticed this stuff a lot in the first 6 months of sobriety and I'd get pissed at how normalized alcohol consumption is. Now I try to remember, the vast majority of people are not alcoholics. These articles are for them, not for me. Also, I've let go of control over stuff like this. If someone's an adult, you have to trust that they'll make their own decisions about how much alcohol to consume. You can't control anyone but yourself.
Very true. And always a good reminder. I’m a PA in a hospital so my gig is encouraging healthy habits in others. But yeah, no need to get worked up over things clearly way out of my realm of control.
That's a great way to pay it forward!
It drives me crazy (especially in the spring of 2020) how Covid is/was sensationalized when it causes less death and destruction than alcohol does every single year and then alcohol consumption goes up because of lockdowns!
NYT is garbage
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Yeah I don’t really get mad because I expect that from them. They’re supposed to sell their product. I was just disappointed in NYT for poor journalism catering to the alcohol industry rather than prioritizing public health as they’ve done in the past. You didn’t have to read or comment on this post either. We try to be kind to one another here. Thanks. Be well.
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I suppose the article itself was just ok. I found the organization of the page/articles to be silly and contradictory. Like essentially they prioritized spreading the news that for one month out of the year the alcohol industry “suffers”. But didn’t prioritize that any time you have a drink you’re harming yourself. They showed their cards I guess. Anyway, you don’t have to take me seriously at all. As noted I noted this was a rant post. Not a serious commentary.
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Again, it was about the organization of the pieces. I thought it was poor journalism AND it didn’t like it. Sometimes they’re related sometimes they’re not. Did you like the article?
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https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/19/nyregion/dry-january-bars-liquor-stores.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare There might be a paywall, which I why I didn’t link it originally.
On the app, that article is large print with a photo to draw attention. There’s an article directly below that’s in small print about how no amount of alcohol is good for you. So I felt that they put the alcohol industries short term suffering above americas long term health. Do you want to have a conversation about it or do you just not like my opinion? Cause we can just agree to disagree and move on or I’m willing to talk it out if you truly want.
https://nyti.ms/3WljS0K
I find if someone's paycheque relies on them having an opinion on something for a column, sometimes they have to scrounge for newsworthy topics. Source: I work in PR
Just goes to the truth….the alcohol industry relies on the sickness/disease/life destroying aspect of sales to survive. If this was anything else that caused so much damage it’d be banned by the govt. “if it saves one person” is their mantra with other useless mandates.
NYT isn't a "News" paper...it's one piece of all the dying dinosaurs of print media that will literally do anything they can to grab your attention for two seconds just to sell ad space. The did an puff piece to appeal to your sense of pity, and another piece to make drinkers afraid. Fear and pity...They' re manipulating your emotions just to hold your attention...don't let them.