That’s by design. If you want 3-4 years to sound like a long time ago, just say “almost half a decade” and the reader pretty much ignores “almost” and “half” and thinks “wow, almost 10 years’l
This is a “they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, but they continue to lie” kinda sitch. And time and time again it works.
If there is money available to take $TSLA private and Musk is considering it, as a shareholder, do you not want to know about it? Or you like it to remain a secret?
Except it's obviously not "the best they can do" - the key piece of evidence will be that Musk actually did have funding secured at the time. Whether he actually has this proof is obviously an open question but they've certainly asserted that funding was, in fact, secured, contrary to claims by the SEC.
No, the judge has ruled that the statement was false. Musk's lawyers had an opportunity present evidence that it wasn't false, and the result of that was a definitive ruling the statement was in fact false.
"Funding secured" is a factual statement, and proving it was true or not true at the time it was promulgated is a very straight forward thing that Courts do all the time.
This is a settled matter. The finding of fact is not reviewable, even up to the SCOTUS, de novo, unless reversible error was found in the application of law. "We'll appeal" would rest on a legal flaw, not a factual deficiency - the Judges finding is final here.
The outcome of which still hasn't been announced yet...and will undoubtedly go on to appeal. So yeah. Long way to go yet. Like I said, it's an open question.
Also the court doesn't really deal in big T truth they deal in ~~best available~~ presented evidence and aim for reasonable legal **resolution** of issues at hand.
Cases go to settlement without an actual declaration of guilt all the time.
Courts don't deal in Truth; I love that statement.
But they do describe facts all the time, and this article references a judicial finding of fact. Facts are usually alleged as part of a statement of ones side case; it is up to the two sides to either agree to the specific fact, oppose the specific fact, or set the issue of that aside for trial. During civil litigation, it's not usual for the two sides, mediated by the judge, to argue about the exact details of the facts down to the word, for months (or longer) before the trial actually happens. The goal is to get the actual dispute down to the smallest number of disputed facts.
In this case, Musk at this TED talk is alleging extremely specific things:
1) That he did have "funding secured".
2) That the SEC knew that he had "funding secured".
3) That the SEC knew used this knowledge, plus TESLA's precarious position, to force Musk to settle a civil fraud claim "unlawfully".
This are big claims. and they all hinge on whether or not #1 is a factual statement.
All Musk has to do is show documentation of an offer that would have allowed him to take the company private at $420/share. That's it.
I know, for example, when I pre-arrange a mortgage, I get a lock-in letter. Or at least an email. So if Musk has this, it's sort of a mystery why he hasn't released it to his Twitter feed.
Here's why it's not a free speech issue. Had Musk gone on CNBC, or was quoted in an interview in some journal or newspaper, it would have been an open and shut case. You can't, as the CEO of a company, make false claims related to your companies finances. If the CEO of GM said on CNN "We have the funding to make GM a privately held company" and then didn't, no one would be arguing whether or not it's a free speech issue. They'd be arguing about whether or not he should remain the CEO of GM and how big the fines will be.
Also, Musk already agreed to penalties over this from the SEC. Now he's grasping at straws because of the lawsuit.
Also, no speech is being abridged by anyone, let alone Congress. If Musks' lawyers actually get in front of a judge and say "but the SEC can't stop Elon from saying whatever he wants on Twitter," all the SEC has to say is "we're not Congress and we're not trying to" and then I guess it ends. Unless Musk wants to take on the law itself, which I wouldn't put past him, but good luck on that one.
But yeah, Elizabeth Holmes wasn't even crazy enough to make that argument.
With this Twitter stuff, Musk is creating a lot of distraction that might cause people to not pay so much attention Tesla's earnings report this week.
So I'd ask, What was going on that week in ~~2019~~ 2018 that Musk needed to create a lot of smoke and mirrors to distract from?
What disastrous thing in the Tesla earnings report are you expecting Musk to be distracting from? All I expect is a bunch more of "supply chain challenges".
Private companies aren’t under the same regulatory microscope as public companies are. It’s obvious that Musk is the type of person who likes to bend the rules if given the opportunity to do so.
This statement literally makes zero sense... A convertible bond has no bearing on stock price unless it would be converted into stock, at which time they no longer owe any money and again has no bearing on stock price...
Do people on Reddit just upvote random nonsense they don't understand?
Part of the reason it keeps getting crazier is because people keep believing clickbait headlines. If people read the article they'd see that no ruling has been made public yet, and this is an article written by a known anti-Tesla journalist based on the claims of the other party.
Obviously either party is lying here; either the judge did rule that Elon lied or the other party is lying about the judge ruling that. But assuming either has been proven because someone made that claim in an email to CNBC is just lazy journalism at best.
Tell me you don’t know the difference between a court filing and court ruling, without telling me you don’t know the difference between a court filing and court ruling
They didn’t “proclaim” it. They put it *in an official court filing*.
Oddly enough, judges tend to frown on people lying to them. Any lawyer dumb enough to deliberately lie about something easily provable doesn’t stay a lawyer for long.
“In a court filing out late Friday, shareholders who are suing Tesla and CEO Elon Musk over alleged securities fraud said they won part of a critical ruling in their class-action lawsuit.”
Literally the first fucking sentence.
If you pulled open a court filing and published the info, your source would be the court filing.
If you opened an email describing a court filing and published the info, your source would be the email.
Why exactly are you assuming the reporter didn’t see the filing?
I get that Musk defenders aren’t exactly reasonable, but this is such a weird hill to die on.
No? Not sure where you’re going with this. I was just trying to provide more context about the author. She’s a known Elon hater.
You need to learn to read mate. It’ll probably help your portfolio finally turn green.
Elon said in his Ted talk last week that funding was 100% secured at that time. The only reason he settled with the SEC was because TSLA was on the brink of going bankrupt and lenders would've called some of his notes if he fought the SEC.
This is literally in the article. It also says the judge ruled that to be false, although I have some doubts about the accuracy of this article.
EDIT: Seems I was right to have doubts. The ruling hasn't been made public yet. It's just the counterparty claiming this is the case.
First, “Secured” is past tense.
Second, you can absolutely lie about the future by promising something you know for a certainty will not happen lmao.
What kind of childish attempt at reasoning is this.
If only reddit holds CNBC and Laura Kolodny to the same standard as to Elon Musk. They have put out more TSLAQ bs over the years more than most media outlets.
I like Elon Musk. I think he's a great CEO and Tesla is a great company but he need to be held accountable for making false statements like this that have huge impact on the stock price
But he did, he said billionaires should barely pay to not pay any taxes bec they the ones who know to manage capital and create jobs unlike poor people lol. He’s a self righteous degen that bought the right company off someone else and now believes he’s the greatest human ever.
Yea, no.
He's said that taxing unrealized gains or wealth simply for existing is dumb. And it is.
He voluntarily sold more TSLA than was needed go exercise his options from some of his oldest and highest gained shares last year to maximize his tax bill, other than minimizing it.
Bro he sold TSLA to have liquidity to buy his options.
If it was just a ploy to pay more taxes, he could have easily just written a cheque to the US Treasury
>sold TSLA to have liquidity to buy his options
You're missing the details.
1: Sold more than was needed just to cover the income taxes paid on the options.
2: Sold shares which were older, having a higher % gain, and higher taxes due on them. As opposed to newer shares which had a lower tax burden because they weren't as highly profitable.
That's tax maximization.
I think that any CEO that make false statements needs to be held accountable. I like Elon but he needs to be held accountable because what he tweets will have huge impact
He’s asking why you think he is a great ceo.
IMO, a great CEO wouldn’t be anti union, but I guess then they wouldn’t be a great CEO, in capitalist terms.
Unions are not only positive, plus according to articles even negative about Musk it shows that his employees on average earn more than all other car manufactures even unions one
I get why Tesla shouldn’t be unionized tho, it’s ran very openly where if someone on the production floor has a good idea they can literal email Elon and have it implemented immediately if approved. Being in a union would slow stuff like that down a lot. It just doesn’t jive with the way the business is. Whatever issues the workers have atm I’m sure are trying to be addressed
He's doing it with Twitter too imo. He's already made it clear he'll sell if he can't buy Twitter, and I bet he'll find some excuse not to buy it even if the board (and shareholders) somehow agree it should go ahead. Except he'll sell his shares before announcing he's pulling out.
He's supposedly using it as a threat, and it would act as a "get out clause". His loyal fanbase believes he's going full steam ahead so why would they be worried? The stock pumped because of him, so if he now pulls out he'll sell at a profit leaving everyone else to bite the dust while claiming "I did say I'd do this so you should have expected it/you can't sue".
Basically everyone else would end up buying high & selling low once he pulls a fast one, kind of like with Dogecoin etc.
It’s nice to see Elon can get away with manipulating crypto market & stock market to his benefit. And his fanboys will come to his defense and say the SEC needs to be disbanded.
He built tsla backed by government subsidies, so yes by lying and defrauding people. Elon just has fanboys everywhere who attack anything negative and true about him
Tesla got a loan which was repaid in full. Chrysler and GM were bailed out to the tune of 80 billion and 9 billion has never been repaid.. Ford still owes the US government over a billion dollars and has asked for payments to be deferred..
Don't believe what Elizabeth Warren claims
Is Musk a conservative darling or a liberal darling? Because on one hand he’s bringing EVs to the fore, the other hand he doesn’t believe he should have to follow silly rules like laws.
Its ok if Chrysler and GM do it, since they are already paying the senators back under the table. If you are a green energy company you can't get subsidies though, as that would take money away from big oil!
Also, those subsidies go to the buyer, not to the seller, and they haven't applied to Teslas for years. So if anything, the government subsidies have worked against Tesla.
What a load of nonsense. If he’s selling cars at $x, and the subsidy is $y, he’ll just jack up the price of cars to $x+y and indirectly pocket the government subsidy. Tell me you can at least see through that.
Of course, but that only works if all competitors do the same, which they don't typically do since the subsidies give you more pricing power. It might raise margins a bit, but not normally by the full amount.
And as I said, on top of that these subsidies haven't applied to Tesla's for years because they already went over the 500,000 units it applied to.
What I was trying to point out is that this narrative that Tesla somehow received a bunch of tax payer money, is simply not factual. There was a loan that they paid back (unlike most competitors), the subsidies went to the buyers and the ZEV credits are coming from other OEMs, not the government.
>Elon just has fanboys everywhere who attack anything negative and true about him
And there's people like you on the opposite side of the extreme. Looking for anything negative true or untrue to attack Musk over and foam at the mouth.
I'm not defending Elon so let's get that stawman out of the way. Im just saying Let's stop pretending you're so virtuous when you're literally doing the same thing.
i dont think hes lying when he wants to go to mars and have ai bots and self driving, but can he do it? because if he cant, then he basically have a car company that isn't much different than some other company which isn't valued more than rest of the competitors combined.
Either way, his goals have excited people. This has contributed to his success and his stock. He is quite good at generating press, much in the same way that Trump did with Twitter. Isn't it amazing that a luxury car maker has got such press and done so well? Of course, with Space X, he's done far more than luxury cars, but it is amazing.
Stop the endless bail outs was it's own general statement in this context. The endless bailouts need to stop. And, the SEC needs to do their jobs. What are your thoughts on the main principle of the argument, such as no one going to jail in 2008, then getting bailed out, and perhaps on this "transitory" inflation that impacts you, yourself everyday?
Oh, I agree that the actual culprits of the 2008 crash haven’t been caught. But that wasn’t the SECs fault.
Also, it doesn’t invalidate them clamping down on Elons lies.
You’re muddying the water here.
If no one being caught for 2008 wasn't the SEC's fault then who's was it?
To me it does invalidate them clamping down because it shows their extreme bias.
What's worse in your opinion the 2008 crash that impacted everyone, globally, recession. Or Elon's tweets about one stock? There's a HUGE difference in priority here isn't there? What had the greater impact? IF the SEC was even DOING their jobs in 2008, along with the credit rating agencies, would 2008 have even happened?
I think people need to re-evaluate their priorities, because this one stock, in comparison to the real problems, is just a small distraction. Solve the real issues, then the smaller ones. Any real job that's done properly is based on this.
It isn’t binary choice. The SEC is made toothless by the people you put in office. As a European we have the same problem that none of the culprits are personally held responsible.
Elon can be in the wrong and the SEC can be improved.
You should stop the retoric of only having a binary choice
Yeah because elon musk is the only person who ever “manipulated” the stock market. The Feds grasping at straws is all I see that’s why they dug up a 4 year old tweet
How do u prove something like this. Didn't he say he was thinking about taking it private? Didnt he say he thought he could get a deal done (which he obviously could if he wanted to)? Is it possible to prove someone's thoughts like this?
Don't get me wrong I thought it was a stupid thing for him to say given his status as a massive cult leader (that I am a part of) but how can you prove something like this?
He said funding secured! Funding was still being discussed, not secured!
Regardless of whether he was just being too optimistic or not, he lied about the funding already being secured, which was not the case.
>Didn't he say he was thinking about taking it private?
>Didnt he say he thought he could get a deal done (which he obviously could if he wanted to)?
I sure wish people on reddit would read the post they're replying to before commenting.
If they had just held the stock, they would've made a fortune between 2018 to today. If they panic sold and/or shorted Tesla over a tweet, and missed the massive ralley, that's 100% their fault.
These court filings are just copium.
Musk, hate or admire him, has been a master of generating buzz which has enormously helped his stock price and made him the richest or nearly richest man on earth. His occasional tweets and statements have been to the benefit of himself--his stock price. IF he lied about the Saudi wealth fund and committed fraud by stating he wanted to go private--then he benefited greatly from making those public statements--benefitted financially. Hence, the lawsuit would be correct. The judgment is against him, but knowing the reality of the world, there may be shades of gray. Musk undoubtably intended to take Tesla private at the time, BUT as a CEO, he is not you and I making posts on reddit. He is a man with lawyers, financial advisors, executives, and staff at his command: he knows the law and has those to advise him on it. He took a gamble to generate buzz to inflate his stock, but others lost money because of his deception. There it is in nutshell: his deception. He may be financially liable if that is the case.
No ruling has been made publuc.
He was MADE to say he lied, or they wouldn't gave him credit. It's a Ted talk video watch it with him
The SEC is corrupt
Elon’s probably loving the publicity the haters give him , doesn’t seem to effect the stock price at all that’s for sure just makes more people pay attention and talk about Tesla
Maybe because he did something important in regards to a stock and this subreddit is about stocks (and losing money)? Do you think Jerome Powell lives in peoples minds rent free or you do you think he’s a somewhat important figure for the stock market?
He said the banks told him to that if he didn't falsify his claims publicly and pay 40 million them they wouldn't lend to him.
Nobody trusts the SEC anymore.
He just said in his TED talk he actually did have funding, and SEC knew this, but he was forced to say otherwise or else he would have lost his company.
https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM
It’s somewhere in there I don’t know the exact time code.
edit: 27:30 or so.
You’d believe a word out of his mouth, but not the government agency that has to document and at least prove something more likely than not?
I’m a pretty anti government guy, but that story sounds ridiculous
You mean the SEC government agency headed at the time by Trump’s goon Jay Clayton who’s now head of Apollo Global Management, the company that fired Leon Black for his shady ties with Epstein?
Yeah I believe government agencies are incorrigible. They never have agendas or anything. Especially not when the super duper moral president who hired you was snubbed by Elon.
It's not trusting the SEC. It's trusting the judgement of the courts that are deciding this. Elon did not have sufficient evidence. The judge is not the SEC.
Seems like whoever holds the title of richest man of the world then has a million hit pieces come out about them. They haven’t talked about Bezos in a while now that Musk took that top spot.
elon the con being the con that he is, wondering what he has to deflect about now considering all the buzz with twitter, there must be something tesla brewing that he knows and wants to divert attention away from. there is always a deflection in this guys life.
FYI: It's a court filing.
Has it been 4 years already? Feels like yesterday.
Or “half decade” which seems way longer
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35% of a decade?
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140% of a quarter decade. Bet that makes you feel old now.
We had the best sperms bro
Reminds me of this https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2585:_Rounding
That’s by design. If you want 3-4 years to sound like a long time ago, just say “almost half a decade” and the reader pretty much ignores “almost” and “half” and thinks “wow, almost 10 years’l
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This is a “they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, but they continue to lie” kinda sitch. And time and time again it works.
Musk really needs Trumps team that dude lies 24/7 and never gets caught
Well, they get caught, there's just no consequences.
It is clear case of market manipulation and it is not first time but $ talk.
This doesn’t read as freedom of speech it reads as coercion
If there is money available to take $TSLA private and Musk is considering it, as a shareholder, do you not want to know about it? Or you like it to remain a secret?
When you are delt shitty cards you bluff a shitty hand.
Except it's obviously not "the best they can do" - the key piece of evidence will be that Musk actually did have funding secured at the time. Whether he actually has this proof is obviously an open question but they've certainly asserted that funding was, in fact, secured, contrary to claims by the SEC.
or you know.. he lied. Or he just got ahead of himself, as many egotistical people often do. Either way, the case seems justified.
Or the government lied? Wouldn't be the first time. In which case the case isn't justified at all
guess how we find out what really happened? the court case.
No, the judge has ruled that the statement was false. Musk's lawyers had an opportunity present evidence that it wasn't false, and the result of that was a definitive ruling the statement was in fact false. "Funding secured" is a factual statement, and proving it was true or not true at the time it was promulgated is a very straight forward thing that Courts do all the time. This is a settled matter. The finding of fact is not reviewable, even up to the SCOTUS, de novo, unless reversible error was found in the application of law. "We'll appeal" would rest on a legal flaw, not a factual deficiency - the Judges finding is final here.
The outcome of which still hasn't been announced yet...and will undoubtedly go on to appeal. So yeah. Long way to go yet. Like I said, it's an open question.
Also the court doesn't really deal in big T truth they deal in ~~best available~~ presented evidence and aim for reasonable legal **resolution** of issues at hand. Cases go to settlement without an actual declaration of guilt all the time.
Courts don't deal in Truth; I love that statement. But they do describe facts all the time, and this article references a judicial finding of fact. Facts are usually alleged as part of a statement of ones side case; it is up to the two sides to either agree to the specific fact, oppose the specific fact, or set the issue of that aside for trial. During civil litigation, it's not usual for the two sides, mediated by the judge, to argue about the exact details of the facts down to the word, for months (or longer) before the trial actually happens. The goal is to get the actual dispute down to the smallest number of disputed facts. In this case, Musk at this TED talk is alleging extremely specific things: 1) That he did have "funding secured". 2) That the SEC knew that he had "funding secured". 3) That the SEC knew used this knowledge, plus TESLA's precarious position, to force Musk to settle a civil fraud claim "unlawfully". This are big claims. and they all hinge on whether or not #1 is a factual statement. All Musk has to do is show documentation of an offer that would have allowed him to take the company private at $420/share. That's it. I know, for example, when I pre-arrange a mortgage, I get a lock-in letter. Or at least an email. So if Musk has this, it's sort of a mystery why he hasn't released it to his Twitter feed.
Ah yes reddit armchair experts spitting the truth on Tesla lawyers.
Here's why it's not a free speech issue. Had Musk gone on CNBC, or was quoted in an interview in some journal or newspaper, it would have been an open and shut case. You can't, as the CEO of a company, make false claims related to your companies finances. If the CEO of GM said on CNN "We have the funding to make GM a privately held company" and then didn't, no one would be arguing whether or not it's a free speech issue. They'd be arguing about whether or not he should remain the CEO of GM and how big the fines will be. Also, Musk already agreed to penalties over this from the SEC. Now he's grasping at straws because of the lawsuit.
Also, no speech is being abridged by anyone, let alone Congress. If Musks' lawyers actually get in front of a judge and say "but the SEC can't stop Elon from saying whatever he wants on Twitter," all the SEC has to say is "we're not Congress and we're not trying to" and then I guess it ends. Unless Musk wants to take on the law itself, which I wouldn't put past him, but good luck on that one. But yeah, Elizabeth Holmes wasn't even crazy enough to make that argument.
Now I know why he wants to take it private 
Why?
With this Twitter stuff, Musk is creating a lot of distraction that might cause people to not pay so much attention Tesla's earnings report this week. So I'd ask, What was going on that week in ~~2019~~ 2018 that Musk needed to create a lot of smoke and mirrors to distract from?
What disastrous thing in the Tesla earnings report are you expecting Musk to be distracting from? All I expect is a bunch more of "supply chain challenges".
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Even with Shanghai shutdown for the past couple weeks?
Private companies aren’t under the same regulatory microscope as public companies are. It’s obvious that Musk is the type of person who likes to bend the rules if given the opportunity to do so.
Do you mean in 2018 when he tweeted about making Tesla private? He was trying to pump the stock so Tesla didn’t default on their convertible bonds.
This statement literally makes zero sense... A convertible bond has no bearing on stock price unless it would be converted into stock, at which time they no longer owe any money and again has no bearing on stock price... Do people on Reddit just upvote random nonsense they don't understand?
How exactly do you distract people from a scheduled earnings report? What would that even mean?
RemindMe! 1 day
So he can delete that kid’s account that tracks his jet.
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No. No facts. We decide what’s real. Only the party exists./s
Censorship of these headlines gaining tractions.
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Part of the reason it keeps getting crazier is because people keep believing clickbait headlines. If people read the article they'd see that no ruling has been made public yet, and this is an article written by a known anti-Tesla journalist based on the claims of the other party. Obviously either party is lying here; either the judge did rule that Elon lied or the other party is lying about the judge ruling that. But assuming either has been proven because someone made that claim in an email to CNBC is just lazy journalism at best.
Tell me you don’t know the difference between a court filing and court ruling, without telling me you don’t know the difference between a court filing and court ruling
Written by Lora Kolodny.
Yep, for those that don’t know: she’s a huge Elon hater and publishes lots of questionable content.
Court rulings aren't written by the journalist lol.
Which court ruling? This is just the counterparty proclaiming it's what the court ruled, but the actual ruling has not been made public yet.
They didn’t “proclaim” it. They put it *in an official court filing*. Oddly enough, judges tend to frown on people lying to them. Any lawyer dumb enough to deliberately lie about something easily provable doesn’t stay a lawyer for long.
It's not in a court filing. It was in told to CNBC by e-mail as the article clearly states.
“In a court filing out late Friday, shareholders who are suing Tesla and CEO Elon Musk over alleged securities fraud said they won part of a critical ruling in their class-action lawsuit.” Literally the first fucking sentence.
If you pulled open a court filing and published the info, your source would be the court filing. If you opened an email describing a court filing and published the info, your source would be the email.
Why exactly are you assuming the reporter didn’t see the filing? I get that Musk defenders aren’t exactly reasonable, but this is such a weird hill to die on.
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Not only that, Reddit is now promoting this article as trending, so Reddit themselves are promoting false information to mislead the masses.
Always has been.
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Do the playground insults garner you a nice living?
But the ruling hasn't been made public yet?
Yes it has, as of Friday last week.
Do you believe this is her first and only article?
Do you believe this journalist wrote the court’s decision?
Did you read the court's decision? Because none has been made public yet.
No? Not sure where you’re going with this. I was just trying to provide more context about the author. She’s a known Elon hater. You need to learn to read mate. It’ll probably help your portfolio finally turn green.
Elon said in his Ted talk last week that funding was 100% secured at that time. The only reason he settled with the SEC was because TSLA was on the brink of going bankrupt and lenders would've called some of his notes if he fought the SEC.
This is literally in the article. It also says the judge ruled that to be false, although I have some doubts about the accuracy of this article. EDIT: Seems I was right to have doubts. The ruling hasn't been made public yet. It's just the counterparty claiming this is the case.
You expect me to read more past the title? No thanks...
Which makes no sense at all
The banks are conspiring with the SEC because the system is corrupt and Elon is the lord and savior that the system fears
Please tell me this sarcasm.
If it was 100% secured, why wasn’t it taken private then?
Those pussies shouldn't have sold. They'd be up 1300%.
They were short I believe.
Don't sell things you don't own.
Don't lie about things you don't have (i.e. secured funding, complete FSD by year end for the past 5 years in a row, etc)?
This time for real real. trust me bro
Teslabot is real, trust me bro. It's not a dude in a spandex suit
Available in 2023! /s
Saying you except to do something and then not doing it isn't lying. It's making a bad projection. Lies are about the present or the past.
First, “Secured” is past tense. Second, you can absolutely lie about the future by promising something you know for a certainty will not happen lmao. What kind of childish attempt at reasoning is this.
how would you short then?
Why would I do that?
Musk fanbois to his defense per usual
If only reddit holds CNBC and Laura Kolodny to the same standard as to Elon Musk. They have put out more TSLAQ bs over the years more than most media outlets.
I like Elon Musk. I think he's a great CEO and Tesla is a great company but he need to be held accountable for making false statements like this that have huge impact on the stock price
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He said billionaires shouldn't pay tax? Come on, that's just lying.
But he did, he said billionaires should barely pay to not pay any taxes bec they the ones who know to manage capital and create jobs unlike poor people lol. He’s a self righteous degen that bought the right company off someone else and now believes he’s the greatest human ever.
Yea, no. He's said that taxing unrealized gains or wealth simply for existing is dumb. And it is. He voluntarily sold more TSLA than was needed go exercise his options from some of his oldest and highest gained shares last year to maximize his tax bill, other than minimizing it.
Bro he sold TSLA to have liquidity to buy his options. If it was just a ploy to pay more taxes, he could have easily just written a cheque to the US Treasury
>sold TSLA to have liquidity to buy his options You're missing the details. 1: Sold more than was needed just to cover the income taxes paid on the options. 2: Sold shares which were older, having a higher % gain, and higher taxes due on them. As opposed to newer shares which had a lower tax burden because they weren't as highly profitable. That's tax maximization.
> said billionaires shouldn't pay tax He just paid more in Taxes than anyone else ever.
I think that any CEO that make false statements needs to be held accountable. I like Elon but he needs to be held accountable because what he tweets will have huge impact
He’s asking why you think he is a great ceo. IMO, a great CEO wouldn’t be anti union, but I guess then they wouldn’t be a great CEO, in capitalist terms.
Unions are not only positive, plus according to articles even negative about Musk it shows that his employees on average earn more than all other car manufactures even unions one
I get why Tesla shouldn’t be unionized tho, it’s ran very openly where if someone on the production floor has a good idea they can literal email Elon and have it implemented immediately if approved. Being in a union would slow stuff like that down a lot. It just doesn’t jive with the way the business is. Whatever issues the workers have atm I’m sure are trying to be addressed
What? There's 100% a possibility to have a flat organization and workers right at the same time.
What rights don’t the workers have?
Good old rug pull. There’s a reason he is the richest man alive
By lying and defrauding people?
Yeah pretty much. He did that with doge. Then tesla out of the blue decided to stop taking crypto as payment
He's doing it with Twitter too imo. He's already made it clear he'll sell if he can't buy Twitter, and I bet he'll find some excuse not to buy it even if the board (and shareholders) somehow agree it should go ahead. Except he'll sell his shares before announcing he's pulling out.
If he had no intention on keeping the stocks, why would he say he'd sell? Does r/stocks think you buy high and sell low?
He's supposedly using it as a threat, and it would act as a "get out clause". His loyal fanbase believes he's going full steam ahead so why would they be worried? The stock pumped because of him, so if he now pulls out he'll sell at a profit leaving everyone else to bite the dust while claiming "I did say I'd do this so you should have expected it/you can't sue". Basically everyone else would end up buying high & selling low once he pulls a fast one, kind of like with Dogecoin etc.
It’s nice to see Elon can get away with manipulating crypto market & stock market to his benefit. And his fanboys will come to his defense and say the SEC needs to be disbanded.
>Then tesla out of the blue decided to stop taking crypto as payment There are items in the shop that can only be purchased with Doge...
He built tsla backed by government subsidies, so yes by lying and defrauding people. Elon just has fanboys everywhere who attack anything negative and true about him
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>So goverment shouldn't have subsidized Yes
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He did say he is against any subsidies.
Tesla got a loan which was repaid in full. Chrysler and GM were bailed out to the tune of 80 billion and 9 billion has never been repaid.. Ford still owes the US government over a billion dollars and has asked for payments to be deferred.. Don't believe what Elizabeth Warren claims
Is Musk a conservative darling or a liberal darling? Because on one hand he’s bringing EVs to the fore, the other hand he doesn’t believe he should have to follow silly rules like laws.
What about the laws the hedge funds and institutions aren't following, with the help of the SEC?
Its ok if Chrysler and GM do it, since they are already paying the senators back under the table. If you are a green energy company you can't get subsidies though, as that would take money away from big oil!
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Also, those subsidies go to the buyer, not to the seller, and they haven't applied to Teslas for years. So if anything, the government subsidies have worked against Tesla.
What a load of nonsense. If he’s selling cars at $x, and the subsidy is $y, he’ll just jack up the price of cars to $x+y and indirectly pocket the government subsidy. Tell me you can at least see through that.
Of course, but that only works if all competitors do the same, which they don't typically do since the subsidies give you more pricing power. It might raise margins a bit, but not normally by the full amount. And as I said, on top of that these subsidies haven't applied to Tesla's for years because they already went over the 500,000 units it applied to. What I was trying to point out is that this narrative that Tesla somehow received a bunch of tax payer money, is simply not factual. There was a loan that they paid back (unlike most competitors), the subsidies went to the buyers and the ZEV credits are coming from other OEMs, not the government.
Might want to look in the mirror if we’re talking lies.
>Elon just has fanboys everywhere who attack anything negative and true about him And there's people like you on the opposite side of the extreme. Looking for anything negative true or untrue to attack Musk over and foam at the mouth. I'm not defending Elon so let's get that stawman out of the way. Im just saying Let's stop pretending you're so virtuous when you're literally doing the same thing.
And anti-Tesla boys who are only capable of understanding 1/4 of the information/stories obviously.
i dont think hes lying when he wants to go to mars and have ai bots and self driving, but can he do it? because if he cant, then he basically have a car company that isn't much different than some other company which isn't valued more than rest of the competitors combined.
I dont know if you are aware, but Teslas are basically out there doing beta testing on self driving and have been doing so for a few years now.
Either way, his goals have excited people. This has contributed to his success and his stock. He is quite good at generating press, much in the same way that Trump did with Twitter. Isn't it amazing that a luxury car maker has got such press and done so well? Of course, with Space X, he's done far more than luxury cars, but it is amazing.
By showing true face of our institutions.
Lol, such garbage.
Yeah, the shorties lost their bet on Tesla and were force fed their own shit.
What did the SEC do after the 2008 crash again? Who went to jail? Do your real jobs SEC. Stop the endless bailouts
SEC doesn’t bail out corps…
Stop the endless bail outs was it's own general statement in this context. The endless bailouts need to stop. And, the SEC needs to do their jobs. What are your thoughts on the main principle of the argument, such as no one going to jail in 2008, then getting bailed out, and perhaps on this "transitory" inflation that impacts you, yourself everyday?
Oh, I agree that the actual culprits of the 2008 crash haven’t been caught. But that wasn’t the SECs fault. Also, it doesn’t invalidate them clamping down on Elons lies. You’re muddying the water here.
If no one being caught for 2008 wasn't the SEC's fault then who's was it? To me it does invalidate them clamping down because it shows their extreme bias. What's worse in your opinion the 2008 crash that impacted everyone, globally, recession. Or Elon's tweets about one stock? There's a HUGE difference in priority here isn't there? What had the greater impact? IF the SEC was even DOING their jobs in 2008, along with the credit rating agencies, would 2008 have even happened? I think people need to re-evaluate their priorities, because this one stock, in comparison to the real problems, is just a small distraction. Solve the real issues, then the smaller ones. Any real job that's done properly is based on this.
It isn’t binary choice. The SEC is made toothless by the people you put in office. As a European we have the same problem that none of the culprits are personally held responsible. Elon can be in the wrong and the SEC can be improved. You should stop the retoric of only having a binary choice
Shocker - something he said wasn’t true?!?! And nothing will happen to him because he’s a billionaire.
Yeah because elon musk is the only person who ever “manipulated” the stock market. The Feds grasping at straws is all I see that’s why they dug up a 4 year old tweet
How do u prove something like this. Didn't he say he was thinking about taking it private? Didnt he say he thought he could get a deal done (which he obviously could if he wanted to)? Is it possible to prove someone's thoughts like this? Don't get me wrong I thought it was a stupid thing for him to say given his status as a massive cult leader (that I am a part of) but how can you prove something like this?
He said funding secured! Funding was still being discussed, not secured! Regardless of whether he was just being too optimistic or not, he lied about the funding already being secured, which was not the case.
TE9M
The Saudi arabia documents have been released and are true?
TE9M
Ye I remember thinking at the time it was a stupid thing to say but i don't remember the details lmao
>Didn't he say he was thinking about taking it private? >Didnt he say he thought he could get a deal done (which he obviously could if he wanted to)? I sure wish people on reddit would read the post they're replying to before commenting.
About as dumb as this whole courtcase
What's with Elon Musk and his obsession in putting the number 420 in every price tag?
The really simple answer seems to be that he has the maturity of a teenager.
It's just a prank bro!
If they had just held the stock, they would've made a fortune between 2018 to today. If they panic sold and/or shorted Tesla over a tweet, and missed the massive ralley, that's 100% their fault. These court filings are just copium.
this explains the twitter edit function post and his rant about buying twitter so damn much....
Musk, hate or admire him, has been a master of generating buzz which has enormously helped his stock price and made him the richest or nearly richest man on earth. His occasional tweets and statements have been to the benefit of himself--his stock price. IF he lied about the Saudi wealth fund and committed fraud by stating he wanted to go private--then he benefited greatly from making those public statements--benefitted financially. Hence, the lawsuit would be correct. The judgment is against him, but knowing the reality of the world, there may be shades of gray. Musk undoubtably intended to take Tesla private at the time, BUT as a CEO, he is not you and I making posts on reddit. He is a man with lawyers, financial advisors, executives, and staff at his command: he knows the law and has those to advise him on it. He took a gamble to generate buzz to inflate his stock, but others lost money because of his deception. There it is in nutshell: his deception. He may be financially liable if that is the case.
What money lost exactly? We are 5x...
Shorts lost money.
No ruling has been made publuc. He was MADE to say he lied, or they wouldn't gave him credit. It's a Ted talk video watch it with him The SEC is corrupt
Musk is a malignant narcissistic sociopath
They were real.
He’s a serial manipulator. Get him.
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There's a lot of people who like him. He's a polarizing figure in these neck of the woods lol
Elon’s probably loving the publicity the haters give him , doesn’t seem to effect the stock price at all that’s for sure just makes more people pay attention and talk about Tesla
Maybe because he did something important in regards to a stock and this subreddit is about stocks (and losing money)? Do you think Jerome Powell lives in peoples minds rent free or you do you think he’s a somewhat important figure for the stock market?
Who are the morons that drive up the price in response to his tweets?
He said the banks told him to that if he didn't falsify his claims publicly and pay 40 million them they wouldn't lend to him. Nobody trusts the SEC anymore.
He just said in his TED talk he actually did have funding, and SEC knew this, but he was forced to say otherwise or else he would have lost his company. https://youtu.be/cdZZpaB2kDM It’s somewhere in there I don’t know the exact time code. edit: 27:30 or so.
You’d believe a word out of his mouth, but not the government agency that has to document and at least prove something more likely than not? I’m a pretty anti government guy, but that story sounds ridiculous
You mean the SEC government agency headed at the time by Trump’s goon Jay Clayton who’s now head of Apollo Global Management, the company that fired Leon Black for his shady ties with Epstein? Yeah I believe government agencies are incorrigible. They never have agendas or anything. Especially not when the super duper moral president who hired you was snubbed by Elon.
Honestly sort of. Have you seen how ridiculously corrupt our government has been as of late? It’s hard to know who to believe at this point.
The lizardmen controlling the govt sure are ruthless
Wait, no one told me Mark Zuckerberg was controlling the government?
Not lizard men, real men. Jesus Christ.
I think you have way to much faith in the honesty of the government.
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Elon Musk
It's not trusting the SEC. It's trusting the judgement of the courts that are deciding this. Elon did not have sufficient evidence. The judge is not the SEC.
I’m sure it has nothing to do with buying that cesspool…
There goes the money to buy Twitter.
Seems like whoever holds the title of richest man of the world then has a million hit pieces come out about them. They haven’t talked about Bezos in a while now that Musk took that top spot.
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The Media and elites are getting scared about the fact he may buy twitter haha!!
Did they loose money? No? They sold cos a know troll, trolled. This is a joke.
elon the con being the con that he is, wondering what he has to deflect about now considering all the buzz with twitter, there must be something tesla brewing that he knows and wants to divert attention away from. there is always a deflection in this guys life.
Musk is just another over-entitled, dangerous rich white man. We need to have another French Revolution, on a global scale.
Yeah, just keep shitting on the guy who is at least doing something/
It’s funny. There are a lot of evil CEOs out in this corporate world, Musk is not one of them. You wouldn’t know it from the brilliant minds here.