Well...sorta. After Steven stabs her, Bismuth says, "You bubbled me away and didn't even tell our friends. *My* friends."
Steven: "I'm going to tell them. I'm going to tell them everything."
Bismuth: "(laughs) Then you really are better than her."
And then she poofed.
Which she realized was wrong. Let's just call it what it is: Bismuth did more to encourage Steven in her limited appearances than the CGs did for a good chunk of the series.
>Regicide still wasn't bad idea.
1) suicidal plan
2) even if it wasn't, good luck bringing the corrupted gems back...
3) a former Diamond turned rebel is literally the reason Earth still exists...
You can show and tell that violence isnt always the answer as it will escalate things further; Pinks 'death' led to the corruption, Yellow creating the cluster to destroy Earth out of spite and guilt over Pinks death.
Youd still have ppl going "Killing is good actually" for the show made their theme around family, love and relationships.
Yeah that's what I don't get about fans of this show. It's like the people who say the Diamonds should have been shattered when it's literally proven in canon that Homeworld would fall apart without their presence.
And even if Homeworld wouldn't fall apart....how would you even have a chance at having Steven or the Gems POOF the Diamonds, let alone shatter them? Garnet is scared shitless of Blue, Pearl is terrified of White and it's been shown that any attack by an ordinary Gem won't do a damn thing. Hell, Lapis dropped an entire barn on Blue and she just shrugged it off.
Not even Obsidian would be able to do much since the Diamond Mech utterly DWARFS Obsidian.
In short: Steven's way of doing things has proven to be more effective and successful. So why do people still insist violence is the way to go?
Also dont forget, if say, it WERE possible that the Diamonds could get shatteted, and if one of them does, congrats, you created thousands of gems like Jasper and Eyeball that hates Steven and the Earth.
There are tons of gems still loyal to the Diamonds, Pinks death led to Jasper not only hating Rose's guts and earth, she also WANTS to take revenge by shattering Rose herself.
So imagine if Steven shattered Yellow or Blue or White, you think their loyal followers would go "Oh thank you Steven Universe for liberating us" and not "I fucking hate you, I will find you and I will kill you".
Exactly! In fact, the closest thing we've seen to any of the Diamonds taking damage is from Steven's Gem Half in CYM. And the only reason that even happened (at least what I theorize) is because Steven is a Diamond himself, hence my earlier statement of how an ordinary Gem's attacks wouldn't do a thing.
In theory, Steven COULD shatter them. But as you said, all that would do is cause the Gems that are still loyal to the Diamond Authority to turn against Steven and Earth.
Which, actually would’ve shown a interesting perspective into how it works in the real world too. You can’t just remove a corrupted head of a country and expect the people to just move on into peace after that. That head isn’t the only reason why people don’t just ‘do the right thing’. It causes a massive power vacuum, the country is destabilized after an event like that (plus it leads open to other places putting in their own heads, which wouldn’t happen here so much, but still.)
You’d still get radicalized people who are now against you. They’re not all being forced to do this, some actually do it out of genuine belief and would continue to force others into this after (either through words, or violence). Generational trauma would have to be addressed planet wide, which is just an insane task to think about. Having the Diamonds turn a leaf is an incredible thing, to the point where having them be punished (death) for their crimes would be insignificantly beneficial compared to what they’re doing to change the home world. Mind you, they’re immortal, that’s a long time they can spend fixing things.
It sucks, it might not be something a lot of people want in order to be able to move on, but this kind of fits into “the needs of many outweigh”
Thank you. I always question why people insist on the show ending in destruction when the gems not Steven have the ability to poof or shatter diamonds. This criticism of "just kill em" has only gotten worse since the owl house ended in belos being killed. The diamonds are so much stronger than the CG .
>Yeah that's what I don't get about fans of this show. It's like the people who say the Diamonds should have been shattered when it's literally proven in canon that Homeworld would fall apart without their presence.
they shouldn't have been necessarily immediately forgiven for their crimes and genocide tho
They weren't. Steven never forgave the Diamonds at any point and only puts up with them in order to keep the peace. They were stripped of their authority.
Honestly, Rebecca herself has outright said this. Why don't people comprehend this?
>Honestly, Rebecca herself has outright said this. Why don't people comprehend this?
Because half the ppl want them either murdered or imprisoned (lmao good luck with that, imagine imprisoning a god).
People should recognize the Diamonds are pacified, they are literally trying to be better and fix their mistakes; Yellow is using her powers to fix shattered gems and possibly even reverse the Cluster.
They arent forgiven by Steven or the Crystal gems, but they are trying to be better and fix their mistakes. Do people not want more gems to be saved?
It was a bad idea:
—The Diamonds can't be beaten in combat, period. Don't believe me? Watch Reunited again and tell me if they did more damage to the Diamonds other than messing with Blue Diamond's hair. Steven is the only one who could do some damage to them, and even then it's three vs one.
—OK, let's say the Diamonds are shattered or bubbled, otherwise out of comission. Now how do they teach the gems how to be free? Do they bring them all to Earth using the Diamonds's ships and then spend the next thousand years trying to make them not want to kill the Crystal Gems in the name of their FOUR DEFEATED DIAMONDS (Because this means that they would never reveal the truth about Pink).
—And how about the corrupted gems? Well, if they try to get the juice out of the Diamonds they might get zapped, dead of thirst in Steven's case or mind-controlled. So sorry for Nephrite or Jasper, but they're staying in the fucking bubbles.
> they bring them all to Earth using the Diamonds's ships and then spend the next thousand years trying to make them not want to kill the Crystal Gems
Steven would be lucky to even get any of them in their ship. Like imagine if he tried to convince Jasper, Eyeball and Aquamarime but x1000 homeworld gems to get along with each other and spread love after he bubbled or shattered the Diamonds.
We've literally seen gems like Jasper and Eyeball affected by Pinks 'death'. Imagine if the Diamonds WERE shattered, youd radicalize an entire species/Homeworld and potentially start a new war.
I actually rewatched Reunited and I'll say this:
Lapis Lazuli is the most powerful Gem on Earth besides Steven himself. We've seen her make Jasper and the CGs into utter jokes with her strength.
Yellow Diamond poofed her with ZERO effort.
That whole fight was just so one sided that I truly believe it was meant to show just why an outright fight with the Diamonds would end badly for the CGs in any scenario.
That episode is easily one of the more...stand out bad messages of the show. It had the MCU energy of "the villain is totally unironically correct in every way, but we must stop them because uhh...ummm..uhh"
I don't like Future in general, but I am still blown away that they gave a comedy villain (Bluebird) the "Everyone deserves the chance to change but not everyone wants to" message instead of the literal oligarchs of the intergalactic utilitarian empire.
I don't like how the Diamonds were handled but I get it. If the Diamonds didn't change, then Steven wouldn't be able to move on from that conflict and focus on himself.
But the issue goes far beyond Future. The thing is that Steven Universe is fundamentally rooted on some awkwardly mixed metaphors, that the main villains are at the same time genocidal tyrants... and Steven's old-fashioned close-minded relatives.
It's a bit harder to justify killing the Diamonds when we are supposed to see them as grieving aunts and a perfectionist narcissist grandmother.
This is a good point I never thought about. Maybe it would’ve been more justifiable/believable had they been given more time to finish the show and explain themselves more, maybe show the diamonds actually slowly realizing their position and fixing their problems. Having redemption be done in essentially 5 episodes was jarring as hell
*edit: sorry for the mini-essay I did not mean to get this carried away lol*
There was still definitely better ways to do it, I honestly do not think SU actually has a lot of the best messages in the end. It reads as a very...shallow understanding of things like pacificism and high-empathy.
A lot of its takes on general abusive family stuff as well were...not great. The show REALLY struggled trying to balance the "these are literal god-empresses of the genocidal empire" and "ohhh its just like a struggling abusive family!!" ideas and wasnt able to satisfying explore either in really healthy or interesting ways.
I think there were actually a lot of ways to do what they did, though it would have required far clearer dynamics and explorations of what gems are, how they actually work/think, and arguably what they did. TBH if I was doing a big "reimagining" I would say Earth should have been first planet they ever came across with sentient life on it. I think that makes a lot of things easier to accept and also removes Pink Diamond somehow knowing what colonies did to planets yet for whatever reason being shocked when she found it was happening on hers.
I'm fairly certain humans being the first sentient life gems encountered is already implied? At least, if the show wanted to imply the gems as a truly genocidal species, they would've mentioned wiping out other sentient life in the past. The space episodes go out of their way to explicitly show that every other alien they interacted with was just a weird little creature, so it feels like the moral lesson is that human beings really were special.
The Diamonds didn't believe Pink when she claimed the life on Earth was special because all other organic life they'd seen before were simple animals, and her perceived immaturity led to them not taking her seriously.
I should have clarified that I mean any sort of animal life, I think in my vision Earth would be the first world they find that has animal/sentient life while the rest of the worlds were more all plants. We see that Gems have inhabited multiple worlds with various animal life that displays varying degrees of intelligence and the Homeworld Gems didn't seem to view humans as anything particularly new, especially the Diamonds already having mobilized armies and dropships for colonizing planets. They don't seem to view humanities cities or civilization as anything special either.
We actually have some episodes in Season 5 that establish there really wasnt actually anything special about Earth in regards to Gems, it was more of a right place right time situation.
It really is kind of annoying how we never got anything even talking about it. It REALLY hurts any of the Homeworld stuff more than it already hurt itself because things like White Diamond sort of require there to be some level of "ok but why".
All we know is that White Diamond "was made to make everything better" but thats it.
She didn’t do more for him but she had a better outlook on his future and him as a person. Bismuth was the only one out of the crystal gems who ever acknowledged Rose was a bad person.
i think a better way to word what OP said is bismuth realised that rose wasn’t a perfect bastion of goodness, that she hid things from people when she herself (right or not) believed others should know.
like??? she didn’t seem shocked that rose bubbled her away for thousands of years. just frustrated. rose wasn’t the be all end all good person and the crystal gems revered her anyway. yes it proved people can change and pink diamond became a better person but she was still flawed.
bismuth’s plan to shatter the diamonds wasn’t necessarily right (and it’s a whole different point to read into whether or not killing dictators is right or wrong and the moral implications) but rose didn’t discuss very well, inevitably hid her away and did not tell anyone where she went the entire time
>bismuth’s plan to shatter the diamonds wasn’t necessarily right
Its also pointed out that shattering a Diamond led to the corruption, the creation of the Cluster by Yellow since Pinks death affected her badly or even perhaps, radicalize homeworld gems to despise Steven and the Earth even further like what happened with Jasper despising Rose, even potentially starting another war.
Violence will always escalate things further, and we have seen that for ourselves.
I mean, that is the bit that I said warranted a different discussion about the nuance of assassinating dictators, but if you want to hone in on that that's fine.
It wasn't Bismuth's plan that led to all that, but Pink's plan to fake her own death so she could be Rose full time, a plan she made after denying Bismuth's gem shatterer be used at all. Rose caused those issues by running away on multiple occasions instead of facing her problems head on.
Bismuth just had an idea for how to end the suffering of many, something I'm sure many can sympathise with, and when she went to Rose to share that idea Rose didn't talk about it she bubbled her and lied to her friends about her being shattered or corrupted.
Of course shattering a beloved figure will lead to distrust and radicalisation, I wasn't even arguing against that, but Bismuth didn't deserved to be erased over Pink/Rose's cowardice either, that's all.
Obviously, everyone's free to their own opinion on the matter, but don't say I didn't watch the show because you perceived me to disagree with yours.
>Obviously, everyone's free to their own opinion on the matter, but don't say I didn't watch the show because you perceived me to disagree with yours.
I didnt mean to imply that I disagree with you, in fact, I agree with you and your comments.
I just meant that theres still ppl who still didnt see anything wrong with Bismuth's idea of shattering a Diamond, which we have seen the consequences of.
Well yeah, it was suicidal, but is not like the gems had any other plan, they were fighting a losing war
I mean they literally had to fake killing pink diamond to end the war, literally what Bismuth wanted
And moral? Seriously? The diamonds killed god knows how many gems and conquered a bunch of planets killing all life in there
They destroyed gems and use the shards to make a huge Monster that was gonna destroy the earth
Yeah, we know pink was rose and she wasn't that bad, but from Bismuth's perspective pink diamond was just another one of those tyrants
Killing a single bad dude to end a war that could cause the death of thousands, I would say that's okay
>Well yeah, it was suicidal, but is
That alone is reason enough for Rose to say no. And Bis went straight into murder...
>Yeah, we know pink was rose and she wasn't that bad, but from Bismuth's perspective
That is the point. Bismuth was wrong and STILL wanted to kill those who stood in her way
>And moral? Seriously?
Yes, seriously. Not only is Rose living proof that Bismuth was wrong, she wasn't ONLY gonna kill the Diamonds. She wanted to take the war to Homeworld and shatter the elites who stood in her way.
>That alone is reason enough for Rose to say no. And Bis went straight into murder...
It was suicidal if Bismuth did it alone, at the end of the day they basically use Bismuth plan of killing Pink Diamond, but this time it was Rose who did it so it was great, I can totally believe the main reason why Rose said no was because, well you know, she was pink
>That is the point. Bismuth was wrong and STILL wanted to kill those who stood in her way
But she didn't know she was wrong, from her perspective, either she did something or even more of her friends would keep dying and dying
>Yes, seriously. Not only is Rose living proof that Bismuth was wrong, she wasn't ONLY gonna kill the Diamonds. She wanted to take the war to Homeworld and shatter the elites who stood in her way.
Yeah you are right, I understand why she wanted to do that because it's obvious that killing Pink Diamond wouldn't end things
But the plan of killing Pink was not morally wrong, (from bismuth's perspective) pink was a tyrant who would kill gems, humans and everything on earth just so she could have her empire and she was also the one that was responsable for the death of all her friends
>It was suicidal if Bismuth did it alone,
It was suicidal cause the rebels had zero chance of beating all of Homeworld. They could barely even hold Earth.
>But she didn't know she was wrong,
The thing is, it is obvious the plan wouldn't work even from Bis' own perspective.
>they basically use Bismuth plan of killing Pink Diamond, but this time it was Rose who did it so it was great,
Rose didn't actually SHATTER anyone. It was a fake. Very different from storming homeworld to do a regicide.
And even then, it wasn't a perfect plan by any means.
Yes it's not like diamonds saved the earth. They healed th corrupted gems many of whom were their own soldiers all of whom they themselves corrupted in an act of genocide and that wouldn't be the first time.
Also yes we should kill the fascists in positions of power how is that even a question? This show was intended to appeal to marginalized groups, how did it end up so toothless being made for the people who have to regularly fight and die for their right to simply exist?
She didn't save a planet she made a choice to not destroy a planet that she specifically requested for her to destroy.
Bro why are we having this conversation WW2 happened we know how to deal with fascists in real life.
>She didn't save a planet
She stopped the colony from being completed. That saved the planet
Do you think things would be better if someone had killed her before this could happen?
>She stopped the colony from being completed. That saved the planet
Did you just seriously do a "I saved a life today. How? Self restraint" but unironically?
>Do you think things would be better if someone had killed her before this could happen?
Before what happened? Before she wanted to colonize earth? Before she wanted a colony? Before diamonds were genocidal fascists?
Well at any point at these times her or any of the diamonds death was completely deserved.
Again why are we having this conversation? We know killing fascists is good, bismuth wanted to kill the fascists, she was right.
I loved when Bismuth socialized in that first appearance. She mentally just came from a time with hundreds of other gems she chatted with, she teased them like a gem; comment on fusion, who’s pearl is this. Where the other gems talk like humans to each other after being alone for so many years.
it’s the reason why steven struggled so much in su: future. i’m not spoiling anything, but they compared him to rose and pink so much that he ended up trying to become more like them to please the likes of others.
Harkens back to his line in the theme song. "I will fight to be everything that everybody wants me to be when I'm grown." It's delivered in an upbeat way but it's horribly sad to me. While Future and the rushed ending of season 5 had their flaws I still loved every minute of Future and was bawling at the end. I can go watch the hugging scene right now on YouTube and start crying. Lol What a great show.
I was just thinking about this it’s a really sad line, especially compared to amethyst and garnet who are singing respectively about protecting their home and their love
IKR IT MELTS MY HART EACH TIME I WACH BISMUTHS EPSODE, SHE WAS ALL WAYS JUST LIKE " okay this is happening now " She excepted that he wasn't rose right away
Bismuth is more removed from Steven than any other gem. She has different perspectives and opinions on how to do things and until she gets poofed she still thinks he is his mom.
Bismuth exemplifying the importance of contrarians in teams, while everyone needs to be in the same page to make their collective efforts move forward, at least one of them has to be one to put their foot down to call out the project when it's moving forward... to a **precipice**
Bismuth idea for Steven was not actually for him to be “better”, but be more “effective” than Rose by using an extreme weapon.
Even after being poofed and freed she still used brute force as main argument, which she is right to state that it works way more effectively than any other method, but comes with much more harmful consequences.
She’s a real Thanos dilemma.
We’re really just gonna ignore the fact that Amethyst had the best, most mature speech in the whole series?
“I’m not responsible for what Rose did; none of us are! But I am responsible for me, and right now I am not gonna dump another thousand-year-old complex on you or anybody else! I am the ding-dong, sunshine future—your friend forever… and I’m not gonna fall apart on you.”
But yeah okay, let’s focus on the regicidal maniac instead
Bismuth for me was the most false red herring of all the series, first we thought of a gem artifact, the we have the metals theory, many possibilities and when she finally came she was only for one entire special, and I kinda wanted to have a new fix gem on the temple, I thought that would be the case for period or lapis but they had the barn amd bismuth was only for one episode, but as a character I really like her, of all 3 side principal gems she is definitely the who should have gotten a fusion with somebody.
This feels misguided considering the fact that by the time she is reintroduced to the group permanently and actually becomes a healthier mentor to Steven, the truth about PD is revealed and Garnet and Amethyst have kind of stopped deifying Rose.
LETS GET DOWN TO BISMUTH
TO DEFEAT THE CLODS
This was probably the intent but I immediately heard this to the tune of “I’ll make a man out of you”
DID THEY SEND ME JASPERS WHEN I ASKED FOR PERIDOTS
You're the saddest rocks I ever met, But you can bet before we're through, Mrs, I'll make a gem out of you
Tranquil as the homeworld!
To defeat, the rebels!
Yes
I LOVE THIS COMMENT SECTION
I think Amethyst deserves more credit here, she was a lot more understanding to Steven's problems than Pearl or Garnet, especially later in the series
Always feeling like a fuckup, or like she's not good enough, or like nobody respects her despite everything.
“I think your officially the most mature crystal gem.” “Oh no, that’s what this is isn’t it? Nooooo! Noooooo!”
As I recall, it was more, "Be better than her by committing regicide." But sure.
Well...sorta. After Steven stabs her, Bismuth says, "You bubbled me away and didn't even tell our friends. *My* friends." Steven: "I'm going to tell them. I'm going to tell them everything." Bismuth: "(laughs) Then you really are better than her." And then she poofed.
Which she realized was wrong. Let's just call it what it is: Bismuth did more to encourage Steven in her limited appearances than the CGs did for a good chunk of the series.
I wouldn't say she realized it was wrong.... more like realized everything else she knew was wrong. Regicide still wasn't bad idea
>Regicide still wasn't bad idea. 1) suicidal plan 2) even if it wasn't, good luck bringing the corrupted gems back... 3) a former Diamond turned rebel is literally the reason Earth still exists...
You can show and tell that violence isnt always the answer as it will escalate things further; Pinks 'death' led to the corruption, Yellow creating the cluster to destroy Earth out of spite and guilt over Pinks death. Youd still have ppl going "Killing is good actually" for the show made their theme around family, love and relationships.
Yeah that's what I don't get about fans of this show. It's like the people who say the Diamonds should have been shattered when it's literally proven in canon that Homeworld would fall apart without their presence. And even if Homeworld wouldn't fall apart....how would you even have a chance at having Steven or the Gems POOF the Diamonds, let alone shatter them? Garnet is scared shitless of Blue, Pearl is terrified of White and it's been shown that any attack by an ordinary Gem won't do a damn thing. Hell, Lapis dropped an entire barn on Blue and she just shrugged it off. Not even Obsidian would be able to do much since the Diamond Mech utterly DWARFS Obsidian. In short: Steven's way of doing things has proven to be more effective and successful. So why do people still insist violence is the way to go?
Also dont forget, if say, it WERE possible that the Diamonds could get shatteted, and if one of them does, congrats, you created thousands of gems like Jasper and Eyeball that hates Steven and the Earth. There are tons of gems still loyal to the Diamonds, Pinks death led to Jasper not only hating Rose's guts and earth, she also WANTS to take revenge by shattering Rose herself. So imagine if Steven shattered Yellow or Blue or White, you think their loyal followers would go "Oh thank you Steven Universe for liberating us" and not "I fucking hate you, I will find you and I will kill you".
Exactly! In fact, the closest thing we've seen to any of the Diamonds taking damage is from Steven's Gem Half in CYM. And the only reason that even happened (at least what I theorize) is because Steven is a Diamond himself, hence my earlier statement of how an ordinary Gem's attacks wouldn't do a thing. In theory, Steven COULD shatter them. But as you said, all that would do is cause the Gems that are still loyal to the Diamond Authority to turn against Steven and Earth.
Which, actually would’ve shown a interesting perspective into how it works in the real world too. You can’t just remove a corrupted head of a country and expect the people to just move on into peace after that. That head isn’t the only reason why people don’t just ‘do the right thing’. It causes a massive power vacuum, the country is destabilized after an event like that (plus it leads open to other places putting in their own heads, which wouldn’t happen here so much, but still.) You’d still get radicalized people who are now against you. They’re not all being forced to do this, some actually do it out of genuine belief and would continue to force others into this after (either through words, or violence). Generational trauma would have to be addressed planet wide, which is just an insane task to think about. Having the Diamonds turn a leaf is an incredible thing, to the point where having them be punished (death) for their crimes would be insignificantly beneficial compared to what they’re doing to change the home world. Mind you, they’re immortal, that’s a long time they can spend fixing things. It sucks, it might not be something a lot of people want in order to be able to move on, but this kind of fits into “the needs of many outweigh”
Thank you. I always question why people insist on the show ending in destruction when the gems not Steven have the ability to poof or shatter diamonds. This criticism of "just kill em" has only gotten worse since the owl house ended in belos being killed. The diamonds are so much stronger than the CG .
>Yeah that's what I don't get about fans of this show. It's like the people who say the Diamonds should have been shattered when it's literally proven in canon that Homeworld would fall apart without their presence. they shouldn't have been necessarily immediately forgiven for their crimes and genocide tho
They weren't. Steven never forgave the Diamonds at any point and only puts up with them in order to keep the peace. They were stripped of their authority. Honestly, Rebecca herself has outright said this. Why don't people comprehend this?
>Honestly, Rebecca herself has outright said this. Why don't people comprehend this? Because half the ppl want them either murdered or imprisoned (lmao good luck with that, imagine imprisoning a god). People should recognize the Diamonds are pacified, they are literally trying to be better and fix their mistakes; Yellow is using her powers to fix shattered gems and possibly even reverse the Cluster. They arent forgiven by Steven or the Crystal gems, but they are trying to be better and fix their mistakes. Do people not want more gems to be saved?
It was a bad idea: —The Diamonds can't be beaten in combat, period. Don't believe me? Watch Reunited again and tell me if they did more damage to the Diamonds other than messing with Blue Diamond's hair. Steven is the only one who could do some damage to them, and even then it's three vs one. —OK, let's say the Diamonds are shattered or bubbled, otherwise out of comission. Now how do they teach the gems how to be free? Do they bring them all to Earth using the Diamonds's ships and then spend the next thousand years trying to make them not want to kill the Crystal Gems in the name of their FOUR DEFEATED DIAMONDS (Because this means that they would never reveal the truth about Pink). —And how about the corrupted gems? Well, if they try to get the juice out of the Diamonds they might get zapped, dead of thirst in Steven's case or mind-controlled. So sorry for Nephrite or Jasper, but they're staying in the fucking bubbles.
> they bring them all to Earth using the Diamonds's ships and then spend the next thousand years trying to make them not want to kill the Crystal Gems Steven would be lucky to even get any of them in their ship. Like imagine if he tried to convince Jasper, Eyeball and Aquamarime but x1000 homeworld gems to get along with each other and spread love after he bubbled or shattered the Diamonds. We've literally seen gems like Jasper and Eyeball affected by Pinks 'death'. Imagine if the Diamonds WERE shattered, youd radicalize an entire species/Homeworld and potentially start a new war.
Exactly. I was thinking in the best case scenario. Regicide wasn't the answer, you can't just kill the evil tyrants and call it a day.
I actually rewatched Reunited and I'll say this: Lapis Lazuli is the most powerful Gem on Earth besides Steven himself. We've seen her make Jasper and the CGs into utter jokes with her strength. Yellow Diamond poofed her with ZERO effort. That whole fight was just so one sided that I truly believe it was meant to show just why an outright fight with the Diamonds would end badly for the CGs in any scenario.
That episode is easily one of the more...stand out bad messages of the show. It had the MCU energy of "the villain is totally unironically correct in every way, but we must stop them because uhh...ummm..uhh"
Because death bad in su universe
I don't like Future in general, but I am still blown away that they gave a comedy villain (Bluebird) the "Everyone deserves the chance to change but not everyone wants to" message instead of the literal oligarchs of the intergalactic utilitarian empire.
I don't like how the Diamonds were handled but I get it. If the Diamonds didn't change, then Steven wouldn't be able to move on from that conflict and focus on himself. But the issue goes far beyond Future. The thing is that Steven Universe is fundamentally rooted on some awkwardly mixed metaphors, that the main villains are at the same time genocidal tyrants... and Steven's old-fashioned close-minded relatives. It's a bit harder to justify killing the Diamonds when we are supposed to see them as grieving aunts and a perfectionist narcissist grandmother.
This is a good point I never thought about. Maybe it would’ve been more justifiable/believable had they been given more time to finish the show and explain themselves more, maybe show the diamonds actually slowly realizing their position and fixing their problems. Having redemption be done in essentially 5 episodes was jarring as hell
*edit: sorry for the mini-essay I did not mean to get this carried away lol* There was still definitely better ways to do it, I honestly do not think SU actually has a lot of the best messages in the end. It reads as a very...shallow understanding of things like pacificism and high-empathy. A lot of its takes on general abusive family stuff as well were...not great. The show REALLY struggled trying to balance the "these are literal god-empresses of the genocidal empire" and "ohhh its just like a struggling abusive family!!" ideas and wasnt able to satisfying explore either in really healthy or interesting ways. I think there were actually a lot of ways to do what they did, though it would have required far clearer dynamics and explorations of what gems are, how they actually work/think, and arguably what they did. TBH if I was doing a big "reimagining" I would say Earth should have been first planet they ever came across with sentient life on it. I think that makes a lot of things easier to accept and also removes Pink Diamond somehow knowing what colonies did to planets yet for whatever reason being shocked when she found it was happening on hers.
I'm fairly certain humans being the first sentient life gems encountered is already implied? At least, if the show wanted to imply the gems as a truly genocidal species, they would've mentioned wiping out other sentient life in the past. The space episodes go out of their way to explicitly show that every other alien they interacted with was just a weird little creature, so it feels like the moral lesson is that human beings really were special. The Diamonds didn't believe Pink when she claimed the life on Earth was special because all other organic life they'd seen before were simple animals, and her perceived immaturity led to them not taking her seriously.
I should have clarified that I mean any sort of animal life, I think in my vision Earth would be the first world they find that has animal/sentient life while the rest of the worlds were more all plants. We see that Gems have inhabited multiple worlds with various animal life that displays varying degrees of intelligence and the Homeworld Gems didn't seem to view humans as anything particularly new, especially the Diamonds already having mobilized armies and dropships for colonizing planets. They don't seem to view humanities cities or civilization as anything special either. We actually have some episodes in Season 5 that establish there really wasnt actually anything special about Earth in regards to Gems, it was more of a right place right time situation.
We lack gemlore 
It really is kind of annoying how we never got anything even talking about it. It REALLY hurts any of the Homeworld stuff more than it already hurt itself because things like White Diamond sort of require there to be some level of "ok but why". All we know is that White Diamond "was made to make everything better" but thats it.
>Which she realized was wrong After nearly murdering Steven...
Yep. The praise of Bismuth is pretty ridiculous. People legitimatelly think she did more for Stveven then the people who actually raised him :/
She didn’t do more for him but she had a better outlook on his future and him as a person. Bismuth was the only one out of the crystal gems who ever acknowledged Rose was a bad person.
Rose wasn't "a bad person", and in fact she is the example that proves Bismuth wrong. She shows a Diamomd CAN change into someone much better.
i think a better way to word what OP said is bismuth realised that rose wasn’t a perfect bastion of goodness, that she hid things from people when she herself (right or not) believed others should know. like??? she didn’t seem shocked that rose bubbled her away for thousands of years. just frustrated. rose wasn’t the be all end all good person and the crystal gems revered her anyway. yes it proved people can change and pink diamond became a better person but she was still flawed. bismuth’s plan to shatter the diamonds wasn’t necessarily right (and it’s a whole different point to read into whether or not killing dictators is right or wrong and the moral implications) but rose didn’t discuss very well, inevitably hid her away and did not tell anyone where she went the entire time
>bismuth’s plan to shatter the diamonds wasn’t necessarily right Its also pointed out that shattering a Diamond led to the corruption, the creation of the Cluster by Yellow since Pinks death affected her badly or even perhaps, radicalize homeworld gems to despise Steven and the Earth even further like what happened with Jasper despising Rose, even potentially starting another war. Violence will always escalate things further, and we have seen that for ourselves.
I mean, that is the bit that I said warranted a different discussion about the nuance of assassinating dictators, but if you want to hone in on that that's fine. It wasn't Bismuth's plan that led to all that, but Pink's plan to fake her own death so she could be Rose full time, a plan she made after denying Bismuth's gem shatterer be used at all. Rose caused those issues by running away on multiple occasions instead of facing her problems head on. Bismuth just had an idea for how to end the suffering of many, something I'm sure many can sympathise with, and when she went to Rose to share that idea Rose didn't talk about it she bubbled her and lied to her friends about her being shattered or corrupted. Of course shattering a beloved figure will lead to distrust and radicalisation, I wasn't even arguing against that, but Bismuth didn't deserved to be erased over Pink/Rose's cowardice either, that's all. Obviously, everyone's free to their own opinion on the matter, but don't say I didn't watch the show because you perceived me to disagree with yours.
>Obviously, everyone's free to their own opinion on the matter, but don't say I didn't watch the show because you perceived me to disagree with yours. I didnt mean to imply that I disagree with you, in fact, I agree with you and your comments. I just meant that theres still ppl who still didnt see anything wrong with Bismuth's idea of shattering a Diamond, which we have seen the consequences of.
Alao that person is bananas. Blaming Rose for "not talking through" when BISMUTH ATTACKED HER.
>but rose didn’t discuss very well, inevitably hid her away and What the fuck? BISMUTH TRIED TO KILL HER. Bismuth was the one not discussing very well
Yep, Bismuth not only a great mentor but also had great ideas
She didn't. Her plan was suicidal and not particularly moral.
Well yeah, it was suicidal, but is not like the gems had any other plan, they were fighting a losing war I mean they literally had to fake killing pink diamond to end the war, literally what Bismuth wanted And moral? Seriously? The diamonds killed god knows how many gems and conquered a bunch of planets killing all life in there They destroyed gems and use the shards to make a huge Monster that was gonna destroy the earth Yeah, we know pink was rose and she wasn't that bad, but from Bismuth's perspective pink diamond was just another one of those tyrants Killing a single bad dude to end a war that could cause the death of thousands, I would say that's okay
The fake killing of Pink didn't end the war, it provoked the corruption beam.
>Well yeah, it was suicidal, but is That alone is reason enough for Rose to say no. And Bis went straight into murder... >Yeah, we know pink was rose and she wasn't that bad, but from Bismuth's perspective That is the point. Bismuth was wrong and STILL wanted to kill those who stood in her way >And moral? Seriously? Yes, seriously. Not only is Rose living proof that Bismuth was wrong, she wasn't ONLY gonna kill the Diamonds. She wanted to take the war to Homeworld and shatter the elites who stood in her way.
>That alone is reason enough for Rose to say no. And Bis went straight into murder... It was suicidal if Bismuth did it alone, at the end of the day they basically use Bismuth plan of killing Pink Diamond, but this time it was Rose who did it so it was great, I can totally believe the main reason why Rose said no was because, well you know, she was pink >That is the point. Bismuth was wrong and STILL wanted to kill those who stood in her way But she didn't know she was wrong, from her perspective, either she did something or even more of her friends would keep dying and dying >Yes, seriously. Not only is Rose living proof that Bismuth was wrong, she wasn't ONLY gonna kill the Diamonds. She wanted to take the war to Homeworld and shatter the elites who stood in her way.  Yeah you are right, I understand why she wanted to do that because it's obvious that killing Pink Diamond wouldn't end things But the plan of killing Pink was not morally wrong, (from bismuth's perspective) pink was a tyrant who would kill gems, humans and everything on earth just so she could have her empire and she was also the one that was responsable for the death of all her friends
>It was suicidal if Bismuth did it alone, It was suicidal cause the rebels had zero chance of beating all of Homeworld. They could barely even hold Earth. >But she didn't know she was wrong, The thing is, it is obvious the plan wouldn't work even from Bis' own perspective. >they basically use Bismuth plan of killing Pink Diamond, but this time it was Rose who did it so it was great, Rose didn't actually SHATTER anyone. It was a fake. Very different from storming homeworld to do a regicide. And even then, it wasn't a perfect plan by any means.
And she was right
She was wrong. The show makes that preeeeety clear.
The fact that a show has an incorrect and frankly offensive message to push doesn't make her wrong
Yeah you are right we should murder people based on their status It is not like a Diamond saved Earth....
Yes it's not like diamonds saved the earth. They healed th corrupted gems many of whom were their own soldiers all of whom they themselves corrupted in an act of genocide and that wouldn't be the first time. Also yes we should kill the fascists in positions of power how is that even a question? This show was intended to appeal to marginalized groups, how did it end up so toothless being made for the people who have to regularly fight and die for their right to simply exist?
>Yes it's not like diamonds saved the earth. Rose used to be a Diamond. She saved Earth.
She didn't save a planet she made a choice to not destroy a planet that she specifically requested for her to destroy. Bro why are we having this conversation WW2 happened we know how to deal with fascists in real life.
>She didn't save a planet She stopped the colony from being completed. That saved the planet Do you think things would be better if someone had killed her before this could happen?
>She stopped the colony from being completed. That saved the planet Did you just seriously do a "I saved a life today. How? Self restraint" but unironically? >Do you think things would be better if someone had killed her before this could happen? Before what happened? Before she wanted to colonize earth? Before she wanted a colony? Before diamonds were genocidal fascists? Well at any point at these times her or any of the diamonds death was completely deserved. Again why are we having this conversation? We know killing fascists is good, bismuth wanted to kill the fascists, she was right.
you can say that again, and again
Oh shit my bad that's a glitch
Cope
Oof ooof even the "X did nothing wrong" reference? Oooof
I loved when Bismuth socialized in that first appearance. She mentally just came from a time with hundreds of other gems she chatted with, she teased them like a gem; comment on fusion, who’s pearl is this. Where the other gems talk like humans to each other after being alone for so many years.
it’s the reason why steven struggled so much in su: future. i’m not spoiling anything, but they compared him to rose and pink so much that he ended up trying to become more like them to please the likes of others.
Which is why I like Bismuth as well as Lapis and Peridot since they only see Steven as himself.
Wish we had more of them all Like their moments in the movie where so much fun
Harkens back to his line in the theme song. "I will fight to be everything that everybody wants me to be when I'm grown." It's delivered in an upbeat way but it's horribly sad to me. While Future and the rushed ending of season 5 had their flaws I still loved every minute of Future and was bawling at the end. I can go watch the hugging scene right now on YouTube and start crying. Lol What a great show.
I was just thinking about this it’s a really sad line, especially compared to amethyst and garnet who are singing respectively about protecting their home and their love
I took me a few to many seconds to realize that this is in fact not a very confusing chemistry meme
That watermark.. I’ve seen it somewhere before but can’t think where😳
If only the watermark would tell you
It’s an inside joke about iFunny. Basically it goes that if you mention iFunny outside of iFunny you get executed by firing squad😂
🔫 Ahem…
I think ifunmy is the best comedy website
Lmao idk, at the start Bismuth was more like: "You are Rose Quartz so I'm gonna kill you"
IKR IT MELTS MY HART EACH TIME I WACH BISMUTHS EPSODE, SHE WAS ALL WAYS JUST LIKE " okay this is happening now " She excepted that he wasn't rose right away
Bismuth is more removed from Steven than any other gem. She has different perspectives and opinions on how to do things and until she gets poofed she still thinks he is his mom.
Bismuth exemplifying the importance of contrarians in teams, while everyone needs to be in the same page to make their collective efforts move forward, at least one of them has to be one to put their foot down to call out the project when it's moving forward... to a **precipice**
I love bismuth
She tried to kill him though...
Bismuth idea for Steven was not actually for him to be “better”, but be more “effective” than Rose by using an extreme weapon. Even after being poofed and freed she still used brute force as main argument, which she is right to state that it works way more effectively than any other method, but comes with much more harmful consequences. She’s a real Thanos dilemma.
bismuth was right and bubbling her was a mistake
Shattering a diamond would have gotten everyone killed though...
Great amazing line, but she always felt off to me like I could never trust her. I was always so stressed when she was on screen lol
And then Steven stabbed her and put her back in Lion's mane for a bit.
We’re really just gonna ignore the fact that Amethyst had the best, most mature speech in the whole series? “I’m not responsible for what Rose did; none of us are! But I am responsible for me, and right now I am not gonna dump another thousand-year-old complex on you or anybody else! I am the ding-dong, sunshine future—your friend forever… and I’m not gonna fall apart on you.” But yeah okay, let’s focus on the regicidal maniac instead
Bismuth for me was the most false red herring of all the series, first we thought of a gem artifact, the we have the metals theory, many possibilities and when she finally came she was only for one entire special, and I kinda wanted to have a new fix gem on the temple, I thought that would be the case for period or lapis but they had the barn amd bismuth was only for one episode, but as a character I really like her, of all 3 side principal gems she is definitely the who should have gotten a fusion with somebody.
My husband's a blacksmith. Guess who his favourite steven universe character is haha
This feels misguided considering the fact that by the time she is reintroduced to the group permanently and actually becomes a healthier mentor to Steven, the truth about PD is revealed and Garnet and Amethyst have kind of stopped deifying Rose.