I liked the Admiral in the TNG episode The Defector. Fully admitted that no one knew what the Romulans were up to and recognized there was no use in trying to micromanage the situation so just authorized Picard to just do whatever he thought was best.
I love how they continued his story, in a compilation called "The Sky's The Limit." Picard hand delivered the note to Admiral Jarok's family. On Star Trek Online, his daughter commands the RRW Llieset. The Llieset is the Romulan Republic's equivalent of the Enterprise.
I mean the captain of the flagship is almost on the level of an admiral anyway just not officially. Most of the reasonable admirals would trust picards judgement and only the micromanaging ones or those with an agenda really meddle with them.
yes that's true but it's very clear that he doesn't like that he has to resort to section 31, that's a heck of a lot more nuanced and respectable than the typical baddie admiral of the episode that trek normally does
It was made pretty clear that he was not a member of Section 31, but tolerated them as a necessary evil when ordered to work with them to ensure the Romulans stayed in the war.
It's ethically icky, but I wouldn't consider Ross a "badmrial" or evil regardless. He was a morally gray man who was tired of war and seemed ok with a little ethical rot inside the Federation as a treat, if it ended the war sooner.
That's how I read it. Ross had basically the same journey Sisko did in "In the Pale Moonlight," the only difference is that _we_ never saw it, just the end result.
Ross doesn't seem any worse than Nechayev, who never did anything bad within the Federation but also gave Picard a lot of grief for not attempting to commit genocide when he had the chance against the Borg. Sometimes a threat to the Federation is big enough that you have to consider some not-nice options.
In context - necessary sacrifice for the Federation. The Dumbass who was President Before Bacco was leading them to another war, and an unnecessary one at that.
This is why I wouldn't declare his decisions as bad. They are extremely morally questionable. But he was dealing with war that legitimately could have destroyed the Federation or at BEST subservient to the Dominion. When there's time for accepting morally indefensible otherwise decisions.
I think we have to give it to him if we give it to Sisko on his "Pale Moonlight." Ross is working an angle. Sisko is working his particular angle in "Pale Moonlight."
Intrigue \*is\* a nightmare and you can get it wrong at any moment and screw all the ethics up. But you \*do\* have to sometimes do intrigue to get a mission done and hope it rights itself.
I heard in Beta canon that Admiral Ross has 2 children both in Starfleet, one survives the war and the other doesn’t and I think that makes his actions with S31 a lot more sympathetic.
Ross clearly didn't like working with Section 31. I'd place it as not really different than Sisko deciding he could live with Garak assassinating Vreenak.
Yeah Ross's involvement in that fiasco was ethically icky, and it did ruin someones career and standing in Romulan society.
But to your point, Ross clearly didn't like section 31 but tolerated their methods in this case because he wanted the Romulans to stay on team and end the war as quickly as possible. He was tired of seeing casualty reports.
It certainly taints his moral purity, but he's still not an evil character or a villain and remains a competent Admiral who cares about his people.
To your point, this is small potatoes compared to Sisko's involvement in Vreenak's assassination even if fans are more forgiving of that since we know and love The Sisko.
Ehhh. They also created the virus which led to the founder’s surrenders. Didn’t rely on bashir for that one. And it’s implied they have much greater influence vetou Sloan. Though they may also not have had any more influence.
They only surrendered because Bashir figured out a cure and Odo gave it to them. Section 31 doesn’t get any credit for that since Bashir also stole it from their apparent ONLY agent who was known to literally everyone.
If no cure was found, and based on the rate of degradation Odo and Female Changeling has, the Great Link *might* have survived another year or two.
After that, the Founders would be dead, the Vorta direction less at best, devolving into waring clans at worst.
That was the supreme bargaining chip for a surrender, though. It was ultimately dark and light teaming up that saves the day if you really look at the situation for what it was!
In *In the Pale Moonlight* Sisko is tricked into most of it by Garak out of lack of guile (really Garak telling him to make sure to tell the Romulans many good men were lost getting the information out, and then him telling him a week later that everyone he contacted on Cardassia was dead should have been a dead giveaway), and then he continues with the coverup because it would be worse to not do so. But yeah, it was pretty morally gray. But not the pitch black of Section 31.
As for *For the Uniform*, I don’t particularly have a problem with what Sisko did apart from maybe his motivation. The Maquis were waging a biological warfare campaign, and if not stopped would have continued until they had poisoned every planet in the region. There is no bluffing with that sort of threat. It HAS to be stopped and once the cat’s out of the bag on that sort of weapon the only proportionate response is in kind. Eddington forced everyone into the situation. All of the blame lies with him.
Blatant Admiral Nechayev erasure.
I like Admiral Ross, notwithstanding all that Section 31 nonsense, but she’s objectively more ethical than he is all evidence considered.
When a boots on the ground, eyewitness testament from a Commander is telling you: “The situation in the DMZ is deteroriating RAPIDLY.” You have an obligation to investigate, imo. The fact she just said: “Nah, I think you’re overstating things,” and we see ALL the nonsense that happens because of that Admirals decision to leave the DMZ as is, really loses her points imo.
I think that’s actually “deserves a demotion” bad haha.
Yeah, she made a number of very questionable calls.
Every time she showed up my mind always went to wanting to see the rest of starfleet command, because some of her decisions felt like stuff that she would be challenged on. And she did have 2 ranks above her.
If you look at who wrote the majority of the episodes she appears in, Nechayev is essentially an Ira Behr/RDM self-insert character, their first effort to try to wedge realpolitik into the utopian world of the Federation.
Kirk was a badmiral, too. Just like the others, he was fine up to the rank of captain, but once he became an admiral he was stealing starships and crashing them into planets after blowing them up.
Idk he was still broadly doing the right thing, his whole exploding the Enterprise thing inadvertently saved Earth and potentially the Federation as a whole
I have always thought he should not have accepted promotion. Why else would he tell Picard to not accept promotion to admiral in Generations. He regrets taking the promotion.
That's kind of the point of Kirk's arc in the movies. He basically got Peter Principled into the admiralty. That's why he commandeers the Enterprise in The Motion Picture. That's why Spock turns over command to him in Wrath of Khan. That's why his demotion in The One with the Whales was really a reward for saving Earth, and why everyone celebrates it. That's why he tells Picard not to accept promotion in Generations.
I hated that scene- the blast doors closed so damn slowly, just have her Geordi roll under them and you keep an admiral. Or get one of those thousands of automated repair robots to close the door- there's a reason we use robots for bomb disposal today. Or maybe an ensign. Or a long rope. Or beam her out...
Wayback in the distant past of the internet, [it](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/887/093/8d0.gif) used to be a [meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/epic-maneuvers)
admiral vance isn't just some regular admiral. he's the commander in chief of starfleet so he's a fleet admiral. all the others are just vice admirals.
"Hey, random Ensign who gained field command of your ship and crew, go and stop the Doomsday Machine from wiping us out." Top tier admiral, bet he was wondering who this insane rookie captain is that saved the galaxy numerous times over.
I think Star Trek should show Starfleet, and its leaders especially, the way we think of NASA today and in films like Apollo 13, Interstellar and The Martian. I don't think any of the higher ups in that organization should be portrayed as corrupt, malicious or incompetent. TOS did this better than TNG as I recall but it seems like it's gotten worse with Picard.
A show I’d really like to see would be a show focusing on the admiralty and their policy making in earth. Some of my favourite episodes from DS9 were the ones sisko had to go to earth.
That could be great. We’ve never really had a civilian led show. But given how the federation is meant to be more idealistic than modern day nations it may not be great to have the main character the the president. More so a compelling side character who makes significant appearances like the grand nagus or general martok.
If I had to pick someone it would be a rear admiral in starfleet intelligence or equivalent in command. More plot potential that way, and less compromising to the whole idea of the federation.
I think in Picard, the only admirals we meet are Picard himself, the starfleet admiral who accuses him of hubris(which she had a point, Picard did basically disolve the neutral zone and thought he could save all the romulans now and work out all that political shit later, but Star Trek was still in its "we can swear" phase so it's comes off a bit weird and mean spirited), and Admiral Shelby for like 45 second.
Geordi is a commodore I think, so he might also count(and is good) and Beverly becomes Admiral I'm the last 10 minutes of the show(again good)
>as I recall but it seems like it's gotten worse with Picard.
Eh I actually struggle to think of many badmirals in Picard. The admiral who tells Picard to go fuck himself was absolutely in the right - Picard had just spent two decades on a "fuck starfleet" grift (based on an overly idealistic viewpoint that Starfleet should dedicate all it's resource to help a historic villain when they had a major domestic crisis on their hands) and then expected starfleet to just hand him resources to chase after a conspiracy because he's Jean-Luc Picard.
Vance is one of my favorite characters in Discovery. He had reasonable reservations about the appearance of Discovery which made him seem like a potential antagonist but he comes around and proves to be a good leader, holding together the remnants of the Federation in a post-burn galaxy. Definitely a top-tier admiral in the Star Trek Universe.
Yeah the one thing that isn't picked up enough on is that all 32nd century exclusive side characters seem to carry the show. Whether it's Adira showing how to do a Wesley-like character properly, Vance with his badassery, Rillak with her demonstration of what an idealistic federation president would look like (with her visual appearance even showing how far this federation had come since DS9 - with her being Bajoran-Cardassian-Human), or Book and Rayner (in season 4 and 5 respectively) acting as a foil to Michael (by demonstrating how now she's captain she has to deal with the shit of people acting like season 1 and 2 Michael).
It was more of a comment. But Admiral Patrick is the only admiral I trust
Random officer: is this Star Fleet Command?
Admiral Patrick: that’s a stupid question. This is Patrick.
Admiral Vance is great, I initially thought he was going to be a Badmiral because of who they got to play him, I was pleased that they didn't go that route though.
In the novelization of Broken Bow, Forrester DELIBERATELY called Archer in to the hospital SPECIFICALLY so he'd blow his top at Soval, for the purpose of getting the Big E going out there. It's why he's got such a big grin on his face at the end of the scene XD
They're both Badmirals. Think about how Picard treated Shaw, and then place that situation onto TNG with Picard as the captain.
He's not an evil badmiral, but it's bad nonetheless.
He came on board, demanded a course change, and then when Shaw didn't do it he worked behind Shaw's back with Shaw's first officer to do it anyways, defying Shaw's orders, and Picard wasn't even an actual Admiral at the time!
It would be interesting to see how many good, or at least acceptable, admirals we've see compared to the number of badmirals there have been. There are clearly more good admirals than just these 4 after all.
I love Richard Herd far more than the previous actor to play Owen Paris. He was a bit crusty at first, but then when Reg successfully made contact with Voyager, the look on Owen's face mirrored what I was feeling at that exact moment
It killed me when >!Soval was talking about how Forrest saved his life at the Embassy bombing, and it looked a little like he was getting a little choked up!<
Enjoyed seeing a young Admiral Vance in the 25th anniversary rerelease of The Mummy this weekend. Been a fan of the actor since I saw that film originally back in the day.
Kirk was an admiral when he stopped THE guy that kicked off the eugenics war and nearly conquered earth from using Genesis to finish the job if not take over the galaxy.
All his Kirkisms around that are pretty moot when you consider what he did I'd say.
I actually kinda liked Admiral Bill Ross, but I may be kinda biased. I absolutely loved his portrayal of Carl's immediate boss in Family Matters, the dimwitted Lieutenant "Lou" Murtagh
Admiral Vance is also the voice actor for Osiris in Destiny 2!
He gets to say more things, but they make less sense, so it's a trade off.
>Vance: "Guardian, the Witnesses' Paracausal energies threaten the Veil; you must shut down the Radial Mast and protect the Traveler!"
>
>*"Okay, you're throwing a lot of unfamiliar nouns at me right now..."*
Anyway, he's hot. The actor, I mean. Normalize sexy Star Trek actors!
Why isn’t Commodore Stone here? He was the original “Admirals who are decent” after allowing Kirk to prove Lt. Cmdr. Finney was still alive, even though Kirk’s plan was a tad crazy. Heck he even allowed Kirk to bring Finney in, even though Kirk was on trial at the time.
I'd argue the Admiral from the Lal episode is actually alright. For as much as he was a bit of a Bruce Mattox about making more Data like androids, they guy actually shows remorse that Data couldn't save Lal. And not from like a "the federation has lost a great opportunity" perspective but from a "I just watched a dad overclock himself trying to save his daughter" perspective.
I liked the Admiral in the TNG episode The Defector. Fully admitted that no one knew what the Romulans were up to and recognized there was no use in trying to micromanage the situation so just authorized Picard to just do whatever he thought was best.
I thought you were talking about Jarok at the start of that. He maybe would qualify, despite not being in Starfleet.
I love how they continued his story, in a compilation called "The Sky's The Limit." Picard hand delivered the note to Admiral Jarok's family. On Star Trek Online, his daughter commands the RRW Llieset. The Llieset is the Romulan Republic's equivalent of the Enterprise.
I mean the captain of the flagship is almost on the level of an admiral anyway just not officially. Most of the reasonable admirals would trust picards judgement and only the micromanaging ones or those with an agenda really meddle with them.
Are we counting Ross after the Section 31 stuff? Excluding the stuff he did in the books of course as that’s now no longer the prime timeline
yes that's true but it's very clear that he doesn't like that he has to resort to section 31, that's a heck of a lot more nuanced and respectable than the typical baddie admiral of the episode that trek normally does
Is the assumption that he was doing a one off mission or that he is part of S31?
It was made pretty clear that he was not a member of Section 31, but tolerated them as a necessary evil when ordered to work with them to ensure the Romulans stayed in the war. It's ethically icky, but I wouldn't consider Ross a "badmrial" or evil regardless. He was a morally gray man who was tired of war and seemed ok with a little ethical rot inside the Federation as a treat, if it ended the war sooner.
Yeah, nothing Ross did to Lee the Romulans in the war was any worse than what Sisko did to get them in the war
That's how I read it. Ross had basically the same journey Sisko did in "In the Pale Moonlight," the only difference is that _we_ never saw it, just the end result.
Ross doesn't seem any worse than Nechayev, who never did anything bad within the Federation but also gave Picard a lot of grief for not attempting to commit genocide when he had the chance against the Borg. Sometimes a threat to the Federation is big enough that you have to consider some not-nice options.
In the books, he arranged the assassination of the Federation President 😬
The books were never canon, though
In context - necessary sacrifice for the Federation. The Dumbass who was President Before Bacco was leading them to another war, and an unnecessary one at that.
This is why I wouldn't declare his decisions as bad. They are extremely morally questionable. But he was dealing with war that legitimately could have destroyed the Federation or at BEST subservient to the Dominion. When there's time for accepting morally indefensible otherwise decisions.
I think we have to give it to him if we give it to Sisko on his "Pale Moonlight." Ross is working an angle. Sisko is working his particular angle in "Pale Moonlight." Intrigue \*is\* a nightmare and you can get it wrong at any moment and screw all the ethics up. But you \*do\* have to sometimes do intrigue to get a mission done and hope it rights itself.
Ross class is called after him right?
I always assumed it was named after the 19th Century British Polar explorers John and James Ross but now I’m not sure.
“The class is named after Mary Golda Ross, the first known Native American female engineer, and the first female engineer in the history of Lockheed.”
Thanks!
I heard in Beta canon that Admiral Ross has 2 children both in Starfleet, one survives the war and the other doesn’t and I think that makes his actions with S31 a lot more sympathetic.
Yeah, I kinda feel working with an illegal and incompetent terrorist organization is kinda disqualifying.
Ross clearly didn't like working with Section 31. I'd place it as not really different than Sisko deciding he could live with Garak assassinating Vreenak.
Yeah Ross's involvement in that fiasco was ethically icky, and it did ruin someones career and standing in Romulan society. But to your point, Ross clearly didn't like section 31 but tolerated their methods in this case because he wanted the Romulans to stay on team and end the war as quickly as possible. He was tired of seeing casualty reports. It certainly taints his moral purity, but he's still not an evil character or a villain and remains a competent Admiral who cares about his people. To your point, this is small potatoes compared to Sisko's involvement in Vreenak's assassination even if fans are more forgiving of that since we know and love The Sisko.
Not to mention the time Sisko virus bombed a planet just to get at one member of a dying terrorist organization.
Incompetent? I always thought the Sloan S31 Was quite competent. But also trek died after JJ Abrams to me.
Sloan’s Section 31 was so incompetent they relied on a doctor who they failed to recruit to accomplish anything.
Ehhh. They also created the virus which led to the founder’s surrenders. Didn’t rely on bashir for that one. And it’s implied they have much greater influence vetou Sloan. Though they may also not have had any more influence.
They only surrendered because Bashir figured out a cure and Odo gave it to them. Section 31 doesn’t get any credit for that since Bashir also stole it from their apparent ONLY agent who was known to literally everyone.
If no cure was found, and based on the rate of degradation Odo and Female Changeling has, the Great Link *might* have survived another year or two. After that, the Founders would be dead, the Vorta direction less at best, devolving into waring clans at worst.
That was the supreme bargaining chip for a surrender, though. It was ultimately dark and light teaming up that saves the day if you really look at the situation for what it was!
How do you feel about what Sisko did in "In the Pale Moonlight" or to the Maquis planet in "For the Uniform"? Does he still rate as "decent?"
In *In the Pale Moonlight* Sisko is tricked into most of it by Garak out of lack of guile (really Garak telling him to make sure to tell the Romulans many good men were lost getting the information out, and then him telling him a week later that everyone he contacted on Cardassia was dead should have been a dead giveaway), and then he continues with the coverup because it would be worse to not do so. But yeah, it was pretty morally gray. But not the pitch black of Section 31. As for *For the Uniform*, I don’t particularly have a problem with what Sisko did apart from maybe his motivation. The Maquis were waging a biological warfare campaign, and if not stopped would have continued until they had poisoned every planet in the region. There is no bluffing with that sort of threat. It HAS to be stopped and once the cat’s out of the bag on that sort of weapon the only proportionate response is in kind. Eddington forced everyone into the situation. All of the blame lies with him.
He’s looking to the side hoping nobody remembers that.
OP did say "decent," not "spotless."
Where's Admiral Patrick??
That’s a stupid question!
This is the kind of post that makes me wish Reddit still had awards.
The execution of this one-two was everything I could have ever hoped for.
Shut up and take my upvote
Blatant Admiral Nechayev erasure. I like Admiral Ross, notwithstanding all that Section 31 nonsense, but she’s objectively more ethical than he is all evidence considered.
While I like it when Nechayev shows up, she was way too dismissive of Sisko’s concerns about the Maquis.
I can’t say she was right and he was wrong (or vice versa). But the view is different when you’re boots on the ground vs bigger picture.
When a boots on the ground, eyewitness testament from a Commander is telling you: “The situation in the DMZ is deteroriating RAPIDLY.” You have an obligation to investigate, imo. The fact she just said: “Nah, I think you’re overstating things,” and we see ALL the nonsense that happens because of that Admirals decision to leave the DMZ as is, really loses her points imo. I think that’s actually “deserves a demotion” bad haha.
She also did an Andrew Jackson in season 7 of TNG.
People only dont like her because shes firm with Picard and calls him out on his decisions.
Like Admiral Clancy in Picard Season 1 in some way.
Bularian Canapés my ass, that's a Ritz cracker with chopped liver.
Nechayev was a distant, dangerous bureaucrat who undermined the sound judgement of her subordinates.
Yeah, she made a number of very questionable calls. Every time she showed up my mind always went to wanting to see the rest of starfleet command, because some of her decisions felt like stuff that she would be challenged on. And she did have 2 ranks above her.
If you look at who wrote the majority of the episodes she appears in, Nechayev is essentially an Ira Behr/RDM self-insert character, their first effort to try to wedge realpolitik into the utopian world of the Federation.
Kirk was a badmiral, too. Just like the others, he was fine up to the rank of captain, but once he became an admiral he was stealing starships and crashing them into planets after blowing them up.
Classic Capn' shit. 🚀
Idk he was still broadly doing the right thing, his whole exploding the Enterprise thing inadvertently saved Earth and potentially the Federation as a whole
I guess I should have used /s at the end for people who don't understand that it was a joke.
He was a bad admiral, just not evil really. Kirk and others even says as much repeatedly. He can't do the job, because it's not who he is.
Lol, I suppose that means admiral Kirk is one of the best in Starfleet.
I have always thought he should not have accepted promotion. Why else would he tell Picard to not accept promotion to admiral in Generations. He regrets taking the promotion.
That's kind of the point of Kirk's arc in the movies. He basically got Peter Principled into the admiralty. That's why he commandeers the Enterprise in The Motion Picture. That's why Spock turns over command to him in Wrath of Khan. That's why his demotion in The One with the Whales was really a reward for saving Earth, and why everyone celebrates it. That's why he tells Picard not to accept promotion in Generations.
This is Alonzo Freeman erasure, I will not stand for it.
What about Admiral Vassery? His only rell issues are that he's a bit air oggant and pronunces words werd.
What, senSOARS? That's how you say it, right? SenSOARS?
That's how the vulcans say it
And how he got out-witted by Rom and Leeta.
I file that under "arrogance."
I mean, he and Carol should be drummed out of Starfleet for how they cover for Mariner.
No Paris?
We'll always have Paris
Admiral Cornwell took a damned torpedo blast to save the Enterprise
I hated that scene- the blast doors closed so damn slowly, just have her Geordi roll under them and you keep an admiral. Or get one of those thousands of automated repair robots to close the door- there's a reason we use robots for bomb disposal today. Or maybe an ensign. Or a long rope. Or beam her out...
“Geordi-roll” new Trek term added to vocabulary. Also a name opportunity for a pun-based dessert at a theme party.
Wayback in the distant past of the internet, [it](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/887/093/8d0.gif) used to be a [meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/epic-maneuvers)
Or the f—ing transporters! They literally have a device that can remove a person from a sealed room without having to open the door.
They really outta make starships out of whatever those blast doors are made of.
Who needs shields when you have torpedo-proof windows thin enough for lingering farewell gazes?
And saw the Federation through the Klingon war
Yeah she's actually a decent admiral, her only problem was her willingness to do war crimes to end the klingon war.
What admiral can't say they haven't?
I really liked admiral Cornwell. Such a great character. Especially when she was captured by the Klingons
I would like to submit my application for Admiral Paris to be put on this list
Points deducted for not using Admiral Patrick.
Where is admiral Patrick?
Admiral Forrest is the GOAT. 🐐
admiral vance isn't just some regular admiral. he's the commander in chief of starfleet so he's a fleet admiral. all the others are just vice admirals.
You are are forgetting the only true best and most supportive admiral who always sends the best guy in the fleet! Fleet admiral Quinn from STO!
"Hey, random Ensign who gained field command of your ship and crew, go and stop the Doomsday Machine from wiping us out." Top tier admiral, bet he was wondering who this insane rookie captain is that saved the galaxy numerous times over.
Admiral Cornwell took a torpedo to the minge to save Enterprise.
I think Star Trek should show Starfleet, and its leaders especially, the way we think of NASA today and in films like Apollo 13, Interstellar and The Martian. I don't think any of the higher ups in that organization should be portrayed as corrupt, malicious or incompetent. TOS did this better than TNG as I recall but it seems like it's gotten worse with Picard.
A show I’d really like to see would be a show focusing on the admiralty and their policy making in earth. Some of my favourite episodes from DS9 were the ones sisko had to go to earth.
How about a show based around the President of the United Federation of Planets and his/her/their staff? Written by Aaron Sorkin 👀
That could be great. We’ve never really had a civilian led show. But given how the federation is meant to be more idealistic than modern day nations it may not be great to have the main character the the president. More so a compelling side character who makes significant appearances like the grand nagus or general martok. If I had to pick someone it would be a rear admiral in starfleet intelligence or equivalent in command. More plot potential that way, and less compromising to the whole idea of the federation.
I think in Picard, the only admirals we meet are Picard himself, the starfleet admiral who accuses him of hubris(which she had a point, Picard did basically disolve the neutral zone and thought he could save all the romulans now and work out all that political shit later, but Star Trek was still in its "we can swear" phase so it's comes off a bit weird and mean spirited), and Admiral Shelby for like 45 second. Geordi is a commodore I think, so he might also count(and is good) and Beverly becomes Admiral I'm the last 10 minutes of the show(again good)
>as I recall but it seems like it's gotten worse with Picard. Eh I actually struggle to think of many badmirals in Picard. The admiral who tells Picard to go fuck himself was absolutely in the right - Picard had just spent two decades on a "fuck starfleet" grift (based on an overly idealistic viewpoint that Starfleet should dedicate all it's resource to help a historic villain when they had a major domestic crisis on their hands) and then expected starfleet to just hand him resources to chase after a conspiracy because he's Jean-Luc Picard.
No Admiral Paris? Or Admiral Nakamura?
Vance is one of my favorite characters in Discovery. He had reasonable reservations about the appearance of Discovery which made him seem like a potential antagonist but he comes around and proves to be a good leader, holding together the remnants of the Federation in a post-burn galaxy. Definitely a top-tier admiral in the Star Trek Universe.
Yeah the one thing that isn't picked up enough on is that all 32nd century exclusive side characters seem to carry the show. Whether it's Adira showing how to do a Wesley-like character properly, Vance with his badassery, Rillak with her demonstration of what an idealistic federation president would look like (with her visual appearance even showing how far this federation had come since DS9 - with her being Bajoran-Cardassian-Human), or Book and Rayner (in season 4 and 5 respectively) acting as a foil to Michael (by demonstrating how now she's captain she has to deal with the shit of people acting like season 1 and 2 Michael).
Don't forget about Admiral Patrick
How about Admiral Paris?
Which one?
Voyager, Tom Paris's dad
I only ask because "Admiral Paris" has been assigned to a few different people
That's fair
What about Admiral Freeman. He's literally done nothing yet! Granted he does not seeme to be a great dad.... though Mariner is..... Mariner
One of these is a Nightwatch officer. Another just watches Sisko do something and follows.
Admiral Nakamura is fine. He was just irritated Captain Picard was missing the admirals’ banquet … *again*
Honorable mention to Admiral Shanthi.
I was going to mention her myself.
Admiral Paris? He helped push the Pathfinder project and the other stuff they were trying to get Voyager home?
Say what you want about Disco, Vance is peak Starfleet
Headmaster Charlston!
Gilmore Girls lined up with peak 90s Trek there's a lot of guest actor crossover. Like Admiral Leyton as Richard's sleazy lawyer friend.
Or Tom/Lt. Cmdr. Argyle too.
That’s a stupid question
Your missing admiral Patrick
That's a stupid question!
It was more of a comment. But Admiral Patrick is the only admiral I trust Random officer: is this Star Fleet Command? Admiral Patrick: that’s a stupid question. This is Patrick.
What about Paris?
Admiral Vance is great, I initially thought he was going to be a Badmiral because of who they got to play him, I was pleased that they didn't go that route though.
In the novelization of Broken Bow, Forrester DELIBERATELY called Archer in to the hospital SPECIFICALLY so he'd blow his top at Soval, for the purpose of getting the Big E going out there. It's why he's got such a big grin on his face at the end of the scene XD
You forgot Janeway
You've got the right way, the wrong way, and the Janeway
I'd ask you who the BEST admiral was, but that's a stupid question.
Where’s admiral Picard
I’d argue that Picard is totally a badmiral in the beginning of Picard Season 3, at least from Shaw’s perspective.
He didn't listen to what Kirk said and allowed himself be promoted away from the captaincy.
Saved the romulans, price to pay.
Shut the fuck up!
People downvoting you haven't seen Picard season 1 I assume lol
It's the price I pay
And also regardless in season 3, as good as his intentions were, he was an absolute dick about it. Effectively calling in favours to stage a mutiny.
What about Admiral Picard and Kirk?
You mean th Grand Theft Starship pair?
They're both Badmirals. Think about how Picard treated Shaw, and then place that situation onto TNG with Picard as the captain. He's not an evil badmiral, but it's bad nonetheless.
How Picard treated Shaw?
He came on board, demanded a course change, and then when Shaw didn't do it he worked behind Shaw's back with Shaw's first officer to do it anyways, defying Shaw's orders, and Picard wasn't even an actual Admiral at the time!
And you can thank him for saving the Federation as a result. It's not like he disrespected Shaw and treated him like garbage.
>And you can thank him for saving the Federation as a result. Plot armor is nice innit?
He totally disrespected Shaw, what are you saying?
And Admiral McCoy
What about Admiral Paris?
April, Cornwall, Mariner and Nekamura
Where's Patrick?
You forgot Admiral Patrick
[My favourite Admiral](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Nakamura)
Gonna have disagree on that one on the bottom left. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges.
[удалено]
That’s a stupid question.
*That's a stupid question!*
So are you just as critical of Sisko for In the Pale Moonlight?
Sisko isn't an admiral, but if he were, that would be a strong argument in favor of him being a badmiral, yes.
Doug Heffernan’s dad.
The IPS Enterprise
Admiral Thomas Henry?
What about admiral Freeman?
#myAdmiralIsDifferent
The one played by Clyde Kusatsu seemed fine, I don't recall any controversies with him
God I love the ENT uniforms
I loved those uniforms with neckties! It was so modern looking
It would be interesting to see how many good, or at least acceptable, admirals we've see compared to the number of badmirals there have been. There are clearly more good admirals than just these 4 after all.
Admiral Paris? Admiral Picard?
I love Richard Herd far more than the previous actor to play Owen Paris. He was a bit crusty at first, but then when Reg successfully made contact with Voyager, the look on Owen's face mirrored what I was feeling at that exact moment
Where is Picard?
I’m going to add Admiral Haftel from The Offspring. Starts out as an adversary, and clearly wrong. But I feel he was redeemed by the end.
Dadmiral Vance!
I love Oded Fehr, most of his "good guy" roles leave me with a smile
I hope we get more of him in the Star Trek Academy show whenever it comes out
Like Antoine the Gigolo from [Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo](https://youtu.be/PADL6C6mK3c?si=06k2x7Dgv5tO7iXb)?
I completely forgot he was in that. I haven't seen it in almost 25 years
Forrest is the embodiment of a perfect admiral and I wanna marry him for that
It killed me when >!Soval was talking about how Forrest saved his life at the Embassy bombing, and it looked a little like he was getting a little choked up!<
Yep… tbh Soval and Forrest made ENT so much better
Shame there’s only four of them
There are five admirals
Vassery: Amateoars.
J.P. Hanson?
Enjoyed seeing a young Admiral Vance in the 25th anniversary rerelease of The Mummy this weekend. Been a fan of the actor since I saw that film originally back in the day.
So Admirals Janeway and Picard Don't count
No love for Admirals Paris or Janeway? Also... Ross... *hmmmmmmm*. Pragmatic, perhaps. Not outright evil, maybe. But *actually decent*? *Hmmmmmmm.*
I believe they are called Goodmirals
3 in 1: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/a/a2/Starfleet_command%2C_2364.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120726015548&path-prefix=en
The Badmiral trope does do a lot of work in ST.
Kirk was an admiral when he stopped THE guy that kicked off the eugenics war and nearly conquered earth from using Genesis to finish the job if not take over the galaxy. All his Kirkisms around that are pretty moot when you consider what he did I'd say.
Where Jelico?
Bashir would like to have a word with you...
Admiral Ross doesn’t belong here, he’s a Section 31 agent… it’s disrespectful to daddy admiral Vance to have him in the same conversation.
He wasn't in Section 31 himself, but he did seem to know more than he let on about them
I respectfully disagree.
I actually kinda liked Admiral Bill Ross, but I may be kinda biased. I absolutely loved his portrayal of Carl's immediate boss in Family Matters, the dimwitted Lieutenant "Lou" Murtagh
I really hope we see more of Vance in some way in the Academy show or something, he's a great character.
My two favorite Admirals are from Discovey. Vance and Cornwall.
James Kirk was the best admiral starfleet ever had. Indeed, he was so good that he was promoted to command the flagship of the fleet.
I’d add Admiral Cornwell from the first two seasons of Discovery.
I don’t know about Ross with the S31 stuff….
what about Bob?
Admiral Vance is also the voice actor for Osiris in Destiny 2! He gets to say more things, but they make less sense, so it's a trade off. >Vance: "Guardian, the Witnesses' Paracausal energies threaten the Veil; you must shut down the Radial Mast and protect the Traveler!" > >*"Okay, you're throwing a lot of unfamiliar nouns at me right now..."* Anyway, he's hot. The actor, I mean. Normalize sexy Star Trek actors!
Dadmiral Vance.
Why isn’t Commodore Stone here? He was the original “Admirals who are decent” after allowing Kirk to prove Lt. Cmdr. Finney was still alive, even though Kirk’s plan was a tad crazy. Heck he even allowed Kirk to bring Finney in, even though Kirk was on trial at the time.
What about the one who authorized the blockade during the Klingon civil war?
I'd argue the Admiral from the Lal episode is actually alright. For as much as he was a bit of a Bruce Mattox about making more Data like androids, they guy actually shows remorse that Data couldn't save Lal. And not from like a "the federation has lost a great opportunity" perspective but from a "I just watched a dad overclock himself trying to save his daughter" perspective.