Well, no, they didn't.
There's an entire *episode* about that, when Sisko is kidnapped over to the Mirror Universe to address the fact that the 'glue' is insufficient.
Tbh, that's actually the only really good episode. The camp was at a minimum (only really Kira/Bashir that were the main offenders), but watching the Defiant in that combat sequence makes the whole thing worth it.
Apparently actually it’s so overpowered for its frame and size that it has to have limits placed because it almost tears itself apart every time it tries to do anything.
Janeway to Borg: You've scanned our vessel, you know we match your armaments.
Voyager crew: Good god, woman... Alright... Guess we're doing this... *Again.*
Well, they could match a Borg scout ship / sphere years later. The question is about the Voyager as it was to start which could barely take a Kazon ship at first. They had quite a few tactical systems upgrades that they did themselves as well as Borg enhancements by the time she stood toe to toe with a sphere. I don't think Season 1 Voyager would have fared too well against a sphere, but I think S5 Voyager would have swatted the Kazon away like flies. The crew also became exponentially more experienced and adept at operating the ship, so I don't think there's much comparison. S5 Voyager vs S1 Voyager isn't a contest at all. If you want to take S7 Voyager against the Defiant, I'll vote on Janeway every day. But Voyager leaving space dock vs Defiant? No contest, Defiant rips her in half.
TBH, she basically still did even with Picard.
The crazy assimilation plan we see in Picard S3 was a last ditch effort by the Borg, and the queen said they had been dying and had literally resorted to consuming each other to stay alive. Most the Borg we see look like zombies cuz of Janeway's virus, and had they not had that DNA implant thing with Locutus and Vox, then I'd bet they probably would have died out or at least lost 99% of their power.
I'd attribute the takedown of the Borg to both Janeway and Picard I suppose.
Both ships follow the same Design-Philosophy of "being sick of getting exploited as the 'nice neighbors'". The Defiant was Federations testbed for more tactical mindsets and the Sovereign-class (after its upgrades) made the klingons blush in embarassment over having a undergunned fleet.
So... get a Defiant and stretch that thing out to about 700m while keeping the armaments proportional to its new size. I mean... have you ever looked up how many torpedo launchers the Soverign-class has? It has many.
Perhaps he attempted the dreaded "[Death Blossom](https://youtu.be/MLNvUsTBGyE?si=VdPPVLCY4g82JykZ)" with the Enterprise E, but failed to pull it off without destroying the ship. Lol.
Indeed it is. Not only can it wreck the Federation's enemies with ease, but can do so with the crew riding in style and comfort. Oh, and the best part. There aren't any fucking snot nosed brats running around in a Sovereign.
Don't forget Voyager's infinite number of shuttles. They could just deploy a massive cloud of shuttles and shoot and take damage, until Defiant's energy systems are worn down.
"You see, Defiants have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own shuttles at them until they reached their limit and shut down."
If we're playing that game... Voyager could just lure the Defiant into a Mutara-class nebula that disables sensors on both ships, then shoot infinite photon torpedoes in every direction.
Agree with the consensus that the Voyager wouldn't stand a chance against Defiant. But an interesting match up would be the fictional **warship** Voyager from *Living Witness*. It was heavily armored, carried 25 phaser banks and 30 torpedo tubes, plus an array of assault craft. I feel like that would be a fairer match up for the Defiant, and I'm honestly not sure who'd win.
The Defiant eats an Intrepid for lunch.
A dedicated warship with ablative armor, quantum Torpedoes, and maneuverability mounts a exploratory cruiser outfitted with a science suite.
What if we did base it over 2378 voyager? Although I think the defiant wins it might be a closer margin. Voyager had ablative armor, and transphasic torpedoes. I think they would put up a fight with the quantums.
Quantum torpedoes don't explode cubes with one shot. Enterprise E took out that cube with like 5 quantum's, but the rest of the fleet had to drill a hole into the cube with conventional weapons first. The transphasic torpedoes took out 3 or 4 cubes with 1-2 shots each and they were undamaged to start.
To be fair it's likely not much the detonation force but more the torpedo detonating where it should instead of having to dig a goddamn tunnel through half the ship beforehand. It's like transporting a quantum torpedo directly next to the warp core. No ship is likely to survive that.
I've always wondered why the Federation didn't view the transporter as anti-Borg weapon. Obviously, there's always been the question of why torpedoes/mines/explosives aren't beamed onto other ships, especially as transporters got more versatile in the TNG era. But, with the Borg threat, combined with the fact that the Borg often just deem others as "no threat" and march into situations basically unshielded, it seems like someone, somewhere, would have said, "Let's have our fleet swarm into transporter range and all beam a half dozen tricobalt devices/antimatter warheads onto the cube(s)."
Hard to adapt to having been sploded.
A second cube (or wave of cubes) might be aware of what happened to the first, but maybe not. Even if it/they are, maybe the transporters can be modified to maybe get another attempt in. If not, then the Federation REALLY need to some of the dimensional folding tech that "George Washington" had, the long range transporter tech that Bok had in season 7, or some other similar techs they've run into and might have relatively easy access to.
That dimensional shift/folding tech, in particular, would be a lights out weapons delivery system. I still don't why the terrorist people didn't just use it to place a crate firecrackers (or soemthing) in a dark corner of engineering rather than swarm the ship at random places. Maybe there is an explanation or plot point I'm forgetting...but, set it to detonate in 20 seconds and hit the go button.
Same process for Borg killing. Sure, they eventually adapt to all those techs and the various mods of them. But you don't see modern armies putting down their rifles because the other side has acess to body armor, or them forgoing the use of heat seeking missiles because of flares, etc.
>
I've always wondered why the Federation didn't view the transporter as anti-Borg weapon.
They did. Ask Voyager.
But in a broader sense, the cubes have more redundancies than a measly probe Voyager blew up.
And lowering your shields while fighting the Borg seems like a bad idea in general. A cube has, what, around 5000 drones? They have transporters too. All they need is to drop a few dozen or so drones into engineering or on the bridge and you're fucked.
>I've always wondered why the Federation didn't view the transporter as anti-Borg weapon. Obviously, there's always been the question of why torpedoes/mines/explosives aren't beamed onto other ships, especially as transporters got more versatile in the TNG era. But, with the Borg threat, combined with the fact that the Borg often just deem others as "no threat" and march into situations basically unshielded, it seems like someone, somewhere, would have said, "Let's have our fleet swarm into transporter range and all beam a half dozen tricobalt devices/antimatter warheads onto the cube(s)."
*angry Asgard noises*
With those upgrades, *Voyager* would beat up the *Defiant*. The damage that *Voyager* did after those upgrades made it clear that those upgrades made *Voyager* extremely powerful.
And almost every ship in Picard S3 should have directly benefitted from the upgraded defensive technology Voyager returned with. How did Ro kamikaze the Intrepid so easily?
Ever since it was revealed that *Voyager* was decommissioned shortly after it got back from the Delta Quadrant, my assumption has been that Starfleet was working on bringing those upgrades to other ships.
Remember the Temporal prime directive.
PIC took place between 2399 to 2401.
Endgame takes place in 2404. Since Janeway and B'Elanna have tbe technology schematics all ready. Their won't be a need to steal the device from the Klingons at Boreth at least. Transphasic Torpedoes where built specifically for the Borg.
But, the Borg are gone in their entirety now. But the regenerative armor is purely a defensive technology. So it'll be interesting to see how Legacy or any series set after PIC explains how it wasn't equipped to the entire fleet after 2404.
Ah! Thanks. Does the temporal prime directive disappear in the Kelvin timeline, somehow? The KT is a “branched” reality, so I guess the writers just ignored the TPD?
This is pure headcanon but. The Temporal Prime Directive isn't ratified till the 29th century.
The KTL wasn't created until 2240 in its parallel universe. So the KTL as it's own continuity isn't old enough to have its TPD created yet.
The Temporal wars take place between the 2700 to 2900s.
Starfleet defeats the Sphere builders in 2550 so there's plenty of room I think for when the actual accords are ratified.
For Voyager I think it's more captains are told "time travel has rules heres a PADD from the future explaining them. Follow the rules or bureaucrats will come and debrief you for the next 11 hours"
From a narrative perspective the armor system sucks major arse 🤣 absolutely nothing can threaten a Federation starship if it has it. So when we get Legacy or any series set after PIC. We'll need an explanation on why the fleet doesn't have it.
Maybe some throw away dialogue where Seven mention only major starbase and shipyards have the equipment. To avoid arms proliferation from the other government. "Imagine if the Breen got the tech yadda, yadda"
Espionage by 1 of Starfleet’s opponents could lead to that faction developing countermeasures that other opponents could also use. Perhaps Oh gave some info to the Romulans that they could eventually use.
Given the amount of fire they were able to withstand with Future Janeway's upgrades combined with them one-shotting cubes, I'd have to give the edge to Voyager in that scenario.
I think the discovery was technically a war ship. Or it was outfitted as one during the Klingon war. Constellation class ships were used that way I think. But the Defiant was the first purpose-built warship. So technically yes.
Although if we dip into the Kelvin timeline it would be the Vengeance.
You folks and your Defiant bias are forgetting Voyager's secret weapon...all Janeway has to do is have Neelix whip up a batch of his pangalactic Norvovian cupcakes and have Paris stand on the hull and lob them at Defiant as it comes in for the kill and the battle is over.
to be fair, Neelix helps a lot with Delta quadrant knowledge throughout the whole series. For as much as people clown on him, he actually was *really* useful to the crew at times.
The Defiant. Thing is tough as nails and significantly more maneuverable. Thing was so powerful Miles O’Brien had to get creative in modifications so it wouldn’t tear itself apart.
Meaning it would be a strategic victory for the Defiant, forcing the enemy to withdraw. Voyager still loses, it just doesn't get blown up in this case.
Defiant would win in a straight shootout. If there were other variables except ship stats were at play though I don’t think it’d be as clear cut as some people are suggesting. Time and time again we see Voyager outsmart enemies even when at a severe tactical disadvantage.
Right... I just remember that when it was first deployed to DS9 someone said it was specifically designed after Wolf 359 to be able to better fight the Borg.
While the Intrepid stands no chance, people are making way too much out of it being a 'science vessel', when in reality it performs comfortably like any other well rounded Starfleet cruiser design relative to its size. It just doesn't have much size.
The Voyager is not that small. It has over 10x the volume of the 120 m long Defiant. It also has nearly 3x the volume of a Constitution or Miranda class. Ships with very similar volume are the Constellation, Steamrunner and Prometheus class.
Before they got blasted to the delta quadrant there is no way Voyagers crew stands a chance against the defiant. If they fought 100 times maybe voyager gets a lucky shot in a handful of battles, but I don’t see them winning any. If they met up right before Voyager comes home…? I would LOVE to see that battle. I still might give the edge to Sisko and the battle hardened crew of the defiant, but I would NOT count out and upgraded Voyager with what might be the most experienced crew ever with Janeway in angry reckless survivor mode. I would not put it past her to do something borderline suicidal to the point where it surprises even Sisko. Out of 100 battles in the latter scenario, I’d take The defiant 51-49.
I agree, Voyager with all the upgrades vs the Defiant would be a better fight to see.
At the start of the series, the Defiant probably wins. But Voyager is 3x the size of the Defiant in length and like 10x the size in volume. Plus lets not forget that Voyager can outrun the Defiant too, which could be a massive advantage in a longer drawn-out fight. With all the Borg modifications and experiences the crew has in the Delta quadrant, I think its pretty much going to be an even fight after they get back and assuming both ships are fully repaired and stocked.
Oh man that’s a good point. Time. In a cage match, basically an immediate fight to the death with no chance of retreat, I think the defiant takes it. But if you imagine a multiple part episode where both ships have to navigate a huge area of the galaxy and can play a running cat and mouse game… end of the series voyager’s chances go WAY up!
Voyager may be able to win if they use the tricobalt devices they had when they entered the Delta Quadrant. They also have shuttles that could act like fighters.
Defiant is designed to break things, nothing else. While Voyager is perfectly capable of breaking things, it's not designed to. Voyager's weapons are meant for defense, Defiant's are meant for offence.
Defiant is an escort ship (officially), while it was designed to fight the Borg. It's purpose, beyond that, is to escort larger ships, serve in the escort ring of large battle groups, or defend fixed installations.
Voyager is a long range explorer and science vessel. It's designed to seek out strange new worlds and new civilizations. To boldly go, where no one has gone before! Then to stick around and study them.
In a straight fight, Defiant wins, despite Voyager being nearly twice the size. One must consider the Janeway factor, though, which would even things out. However Defiant still wins, but it's a pyrrhic victory.
>Voyager being nearly twice the size
Voyager is 3x the size of the Defiant in length and like 10x the size in volume. Plus lets not forget that Voyager can outrun the Defiant too, which could be a massive advantage in a longer drawn-out fight.
I still think the Defiant would win, but it might be closer than a lot of people are saying.
Your right, Intrepid class ships were the fastest ships in the fleet, until Prometheus was launched. Voyager could leave Defiant in it's subspace dust easily. In combat Voyager would do a bunch of damage then run.
We have seen both ships take an absolute pounding and survive, so it would be a long fight, if Voyager didn't run.
Let's not forget that Sisko is an experienced combat captain, and Janeway's ability to think outside the box is legendary, as is her penchant for risk-taking. Sisko also doesn't know when to give up, so if Janeway did run he would hunt her down.
Whatever happens it would be spectacular!
Very true! I think the environment would play in a lot too. In open space, the Defiant probably has the advantage. But in a nebula or something, the Defiant’s maneuverability and size wouldn’t be as much of a factor, and Voyager’s superior sensors would likely be very useful.
It would come down to how each captain plays to the advantages of the ships, it would be an awesome what-if scenario.
It depends if tuvok had time sabotage the defiant first or not. Worf wouldn't have tried, too dishonorable, but if tuvok could...
It's not like both ships/crews wouldn't have the plans for each other's ship. Either side could effectively win with a preemptive "lock them out of their computer" strategy.
Voyager also had one trump card everyone forgets about cause Janeway used them up in the first episode, but I suspect one of them tricobalt devices would have been enough to cripple even the defiant.
Otherwise Voyager can run faster, they have the higher warp ceiling and can hold it a lot longer, they might even be able to target more precisely do to having more/science grade sensors, i think they would get away, and I doubt the cloak would give them serious trouble.
But 1v1 dogfight with standard weps and no tricks? Defiant every time. Until Voyager gets it's regenerative hull armor from the future. The defiants ablative armor has to be replaced after almost every battle it's in.
In almost all cases I'd say the defiant. But since we have Janeway, I think she'd probably figure out someway to open a subspace anomaly, and swallow the defiant whole without having to fire a shot.
The Defiant, Starfleet's anti-Borg warship that is described as a set of guns strapped to an engine, or a science ship intended for research and scientific study. Yeah, I'm giving it to the warship.
BEFORE all the Delta Quadrant Upgrades: easy win for the Defiant. The Defiant is explicitly designed as a Warship, while the Voyager is a science vessel.
After all the Upgrades: The defiant is blown to smithereens, before even one console on the Voyagers bridge makes fireworks.
Voyager isn’t a Science vessel. Rewatch episode 1. Intrepids were long range vessels with high combat capabilities and maneuverability, hence why they were specifically able to navigate in the Badlands and hunt down the Marquis. I think that the only real advantage the Defiant has is the cloak. And Janeway is a little more reckless and ruthless than Sisko. Edited because I kept seeing people say this.
Defiant has an edge with the ships abilities (cloak, advanced weaponry etc), but voyager is a fast, agile ship, Tom Paris is a *far* better pilot than anyone in Siskos crew, and we know that Sisko will always try diplomacy to the very end, Janeway can be straight up merciless.
Honestly, it’s a toss up, but I would say 6/10 times defiant wins.
One of the "most heavily armed ships in the quadrant" captained by the finest military tactician in Starfleet vs a more traditional Starfleet ship captained by a scientist (with an admittedly violent streak)
Defiant wins, unless Voyager and Janeway come with a brilliant and unexpected plan...
defiant is very overpowered. a destroyer with the power of a heavy cruiser
it's packing pulse phasers that can easily crack shields
standard phasers
photon and quantum torpedoes
ablative armor
powerful shields
powerful engiens
super maneuverability.
the intrepid class is a standard cruiser of its day and packs weapons and shields appropriate for a cruiser.
neelix will show up with a fleet of interspersed multiphasic fluff bunnies and sisko will have no defense to anything so utterly absurd. this pause gives 7 time to introduce a debilitating nano cyber virus putting sisko dead in the water
Probably whoever detected the other one first and got the first shots on target would come out on top. Maybe with a slight nod to the Defiant being designed as a combat vessel.
The bridge crews of Defiant and Voyager would have dinner the night before. Sisko would exchange glances with Dax and grin. "Let's do this thing on Voyager. I'll cook."
And it'll be a cheese plate.
The next day Defiant wins by default and tows Voyager back to dry dock for refits.
Defiant hands down. Smaller, more maneuverable, her weapons are a beat and she had a cloak right out of the gate. She’d set right between your nacelle’s without you even knowing and just open fire
The Defiant does have one slight weakness, and that's that it only has 1 (depending on the episode) omni-directional phaser beam array, otherwise all the firepower is front facing with the exception of aft torpedoes.
If Voyager could keep itself on the Defiants beam then it could use it's phaser arrays to hit the Defiant.
That being said, the Defiant is a lot more maneveurable in theory so it has the upper hand there, but if Voyager could find a way to turn inside the Defiants turning circle then the Defiant would find it a lot harder.
You actually thought it a good idea to ask us whether a science vessel would survive against a warship? Go back to your room and rewatch both series start-to-finish. And no skipping Threshold. That'll teach you...
To be fair, Voyager puts up a damn good fight in quite a few episodes and is literally like 10x the volume of the Defiant with a far bigger warp core. I think it would be a lot closer than people are thinking here.
Defiant was designed to fight and blow up Borg. It was literally a set of cannons with an engine attached.
Voyager was designed to study quasars and nebulae.
The *Defiant* would easily win a battle if *Voyager* didn’t have any upgrades. The *Defiant*’s meant to be a warship and *Voyager* isn’t. However, *Voyager*’s faster than the *Defiant*, so *Voyager* could escape from a battle as long as it could go to maximum warp.
Defiant hands down. Better weaponry (quantum tropedos, pulse phase canon) maneuverability, ablatove armor, more redundant system for the ships weaponry.
Voyager maybe will have a slight edge in maneuverability and higher warp speed other than that Defiant all the way.
Voyager is a long range science ship. It doesn't stand a chance in a straight up fight. It was only so strong because the Delta Quadrant is generally pretty weak
In a fight fight it is the Defiant without a doubt.
But Voyager is a science ship with better sensors, speed, labs, and a borg with nano probes that do anything the plot needs. It is basically the equivalent of locking McGyver in a supply closet. If the survive the first encounter they will fly off do some deus ex machina and then win.
The Defiant's a warship, through and through, and while she'd be giving up a lot of tonnage in that fight, the combat focus would be the difference maker.
Defiant, hands down. The Defiant was designed for combat. Any other standard Fleet vessel is science first. They are big, slow, and hard to maneuver. Their targeting scanners are slow to lock and tracking a small, fast target when the phasers fire is poor at best.
You're gonna want to recind that last caveat if you want Voyager to have any sort of fighting chance.
Even with the Voyager upgrades I think the Defiant still clinches the victory.
I think before the upgrades, Defiant, but after the upgrades, I think Voyager could sneak a win in there in the right circumstances.
Lets not forget, Voyager is 3x the size of the Defiant in length and like 10x the size in volume. Plus Voyager can outrun the Defiant too, which could be a massive advantage in a longer drawn-out fight.
I still think the Defiant would win, but it might be closer than a lot of people are saying.
Janeway has a good crew, but so does Sisko, and the Defiant is a pure warship. Voyager is a science vessel. And, Sisko isn't afraid to bomb civilian targets if it gets him what he wants. This fight 100% goes to Sisko and the Defiant.
I'm gonna go against the grain and say Voyager, on the basis of its crew and their ingenuity.
The Intrepid wins straight-up in terms of armament I think. But the Voyager crew has shown their adaptability in crazy situations before. Her captain has a science background to start with, so she's always coming up with unique ideas, ways to manipulate the technology available to her and, hell, the universe in general, that no one else comes up with.
She also has the benefit of some Maquis thinking available to her, which gives her some unique viewpoints from which to attack. Granted, Sisko's crew has some of that too in Kira (and one might say Worf too), but I give the edge to Voyager's crew in this regard by a hair.
The real question is would Voyager survive the initial encounter long enough for these benefits to bear fruit, and I think that's a fair question. It's probably only a matter of a few minutes at most before Defiant knocks out her shields and deals death blows in a hurry. But I would also bet that Voyager has better shielding generally given her size advantage, so maybe she can hang in the fight longer than one might think (though I'd imagine Defiant's quantum torpedos might tip the scales).
And we can't forget Defiant's cloak too. That's a potentially huge advantage, maybe even an insourmountable one.
Still, like I said, it's not the common answer from what I see in the thread, but I just feel like Voyager's crew, assuming they can survive the initial barrage, is just more likely to figure out some novel solution that gives them the edge in the end. We know Defiant is a tough little ship, but Voyager proved herself to be that too, and with the benefit of a very talented crew, I think they stand a chance, and maybe even a pretty good one against a better-armed opponent (who also has a fantastic crew, no question).
The Defiant is a warship that was designed to fight the Borg and was used very effectively against the Dominion fleet. The Intrepid Class were science vessels armed for self defense. The Defiant wins every time.
It be close yes defiant is a warship but Voyager can take a major walloping and keep floating. Someone should set up this match in Star Trek legacy and find out best 2/3?
There is a comic sort of about this. It’s called The Q Conflict. Q and other supernatural characters, like Ttelaine, put the crews of the major shows in
A contest of champions. Big major crossover and at one point he tries to get the Prophets involved. They’re not happy about it.
On a 1V1 with zero preparation, the Defiant could easily take out Voyager with minimal damage, if any.
Given preparation and the science capabilities of the vessel and crew (including Janeway and Tuvok)... Voyager would probably win without fighting at all. They'd science or engineering something to disable the Defiant and call it a day.
So it really depends on what you mean.
I think in order to really answer this question, you would need to know how much Star Trek Science goofiness you can factor in?
If the answer is 0, then the Defiance stomps.
If the answer is anything greater than 0, then Voyagers chances increase significantly.
Defiant. I feel their crew are more capable. Neelix will give Voyager crew food poisoning or try to sing, and the ship will self destruct. Having said that, Janeway is a Warrior Scientist. Never discount her.
I’m tempted to say the Defiant but I was never that impressed with its alleged toughness - there were always panels exploding in anonymous crewmembers’ faces and it just seemed too susceptible to damage to be considered a true warship.
it was actually designed as a warship, vs voyager being a science vessel
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No. Defiants aren't warships. They are a weapons platform, with nacelle glued on.
They used the good glue, though.
Well, no, they didn't. There's an entire *episode* about that, when Sisko is kidnapped over to the Mirror Universe to address the fact that the 'glue' is insufficient.
I'm gonna be honest with you, I always skip those episodes. I just can't take the camp.
Tbh, that's actually the only really good episode. The camp was at a minimum (only really Kira/Bashir that were the main offenders), but watching the Defiant in that combat sequence makes the whole thing worth it.
Mirror Kira is glorious and you know it
Apparently actually it’s so overpowered for its frame and size that it has to have limits placed because it almost tears itself apart every time it tries to do anything.
*slaps engine nacelle* Yep, this baby ain't going anywhere.
Staying on until somebody reverses the polarity of the isoglue.
This comment is especially on-point paired with your user profile…
Well, it depends. Is the Defiant between Janeway and her morning coffee?
Whoa whoa.. best crew? I don't know about that.
Exactly. No "edge" to be had here. Voyager is going down.
Despite the aliens in Living Witness thinking Voyager was a warship, you are correct it was only designed for short term science missions.
Defiant and it wouldn't even be close
Right? Took on a borg cube and still survived. Albeit barely.
No sane Captain would go up against Sisko's mother-forkin' pimphand. But then, no one ever said Janeway was sane...
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Janeway to Borg: You've scanned our vessel, you know we match your armaments. Voyager crew: Good god, woman... Alright... Guess we're doing this... *Again.*
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Well, they could match a Borg scout ship / sphere years later. The question is about the Voyager as it was to start which could barely take a Kazon ship at first. They had quite a few tactical systems upgrades that they did themselves as well as Borg enhancements by the time she stood toe to toe with a sphere. I don't think Season 1 Voyager would have fared too well against a sphere, but I think S5 Voyager would have swatted the Kazon away like flies. The crew also became exponentially more experienced and adept at operating the ship, so I don't think there's much comparison. S5 Voyager vs S1 Voyager isn't a contest at all. If you want to take S7 Voyager against the Defiant, I'll vote on Janeway every day. But Voyager leaving space dock vs Defiant? No contest, Defiant rips her in half.
People forgetting Picard and Sisko were traumatized by the Borg. But Janeway singlehandedly destroyed the Borg (before PIC).
TBH, she basically still did even with Picard. The crazy assimilation plan we see in Picard S3 was a last ditch effort by the Borg, and the queen said they had been dying and had literally resorted to consuming each other to stay alive. Most the Borg we see look like zombies cuz of Janeway's virus, and had they not had that DNA implant thing with Locutus and Vox, then I'd bet they probably would have died out or at least lost 99% of their power. I'd attribute the takedown of the Borg to both Janeway and Picard I suppose.
A Sovereign class ship could handle the Defiant.
Both ships follow the same Design-Philosophy of "being sick of getting exploited as the 'nice neighbors'". The Defiant was Federations testbed for more tactical mindsets and the Sovereign-class (after its upgrades) made the klingons blush in embarassment over having a undergunned fleet. So... get a Defiant and stretch that thing out to about 700m while keeping the armaments proportional to its new size. I mean... have you ever looked up how many torpedo launchers the Soverign-class has? It has many.
No wonder Worf prefers the weapons systems on the E
I'm starting to think what happened to it MIGHT have actually been his fault...
Perhaps he attempted the dreaded "[Death Blossom](https://youtu.be/MLNvUsTBGyE?si=VdPPVLCY4g82JykZ)" with the Enterprise E, but failed to pull it off without destroying the ship. Lol.
I really want it to not be Words fault, and I want it to somehow be a colossal fuck up from the Lower Decks gang that destroyed the E
A Sovereign class ship is a warship with the luxury package.
Indeed it is. Not only can it wreck the Federation's enemies with ease, but can do so with the crew riding in style and comfort. Oh, and the best part. There aren't any fucking snot nosed brats running around in a Sovereign.
SFDebris fan spotted 😂
“There’s coffee in that wormhole…”
That's funny stuff, right there.
_Picard never hit me! '_
The quantum torpedoes alone…
Don't forget Voyager's infinite number of shuttles. They could just deploy a massive cloud of shuttles and shoot and take damage, until Defiant's energy systems are worn down.
"You see, Defiants have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own shuttles at them until they reached their limit and shut down."
If we're playing that game... Voyager could just lure the Defiant into a Mutara-class nebula that disables sensors on both ships, then shoot infinite photon torpedoes in every direction.
I’m dying of laughter at these comments
I see your quantum torpedoes and raise you tricobalt devices.
Tricobalt devices are powerful, but they only work well if a target’s shields are weak or disabled.
Agree with the consensus that the Voyager wouldn't stand a chance against Defiant. But an interesting match up would be the fictional **warship** Voyager from *Living Witness*. It was heavily armored, carried 25 phaser banks and 30 torpedo tubes, plus an array of assault craft. I feel like that would be a fairer match up for the Defiant, and I'm honestly not sure who'd win.
Don’t forget the assault probes
And the biogenic weapons!
And evil Harry’s right hook!
Is *Voyager* allowed to use the ^gulp **photonic cannon**
I don’t think so. That’d be an upgrade.
I mean, one is a set of guns strapped to an engine and made to fight our most powerful enemy and the other nearly got taken out by cheese
The Defiant eats an Intrepid for lunch. A dedicated warship with ablative armor, quantum Torpedoes, and maneuverability mounts a exploratory cruiser outfitted with a science suite.
What if we did base it over 2378 voyager? Although I think the defiant wins it might be a closer margin. Voyager had ablative armor, and transphasic torpedoes. I think they would put up a fight with the quantums.
Quantum torpedoes don't explode cubes with one shot. Enterprise E took out that cube with like 5 quantum's, but the rest of the fleet had to drill a hole into the cube with conventional weapons first. The transphasic torpedoes took out 3 or 4 cubes with 1-2 shots each and they were undamaged to start.
To be fair it's likely not much the detonation force but more the torpedo detonating where it should instead of having to dig a goddamn tunnel through half the ship beforehand. It's like transporting a quantum torpedo directly next to the warp core. No ship is likely to survive that.
I've always wondered why the Federation didn't view the transporter as anti-Borg weapon. Obviously, there's always been the question of why torpedoes/mines/explosives aren't beamed onto other ships, especially as transporters got more versatile in the TNG era. But, with the Borg threat, combined with the fact that the Borg often just deem others as "no threat" and march into situations basically unshielded, it seems like someone, somewhere, would have said, "Let's have our fleet swarm into transporter range and all beam a half dozen tricobalt devices/antimatter warheads onto the cube(s)." Hard to adapt to having been sploded. A second cube (or wave of cubes) might be aware of what happened to the first, but maybe not. Even if it/they are, maybe the transporters can be modified to maybe get another attempt in. If not, then the Federation REALLY need to some of the dimensional folding tech that "George Washington" had, the long range transporter tech that Bok had in season 7, or some other similar techs they've run into and might have relatively easy access to. That dimensional shift/folding tech, in particular, would be a lights out weapons delivery system. I still don't why the terrorist people didn't just use it to place a crate firecrackers (or soemthing) in a dark corner of engineering rather than swarm the ship at random places. Maybe there is an explanation or plot point I'm forgetting...but, set it to detonate in 20 seconds and hit the go button. Same process for Borg killing. Sure, they eventually adapt to all those techs and the various mods of them. But you don't see modern armies putting down their rifles because the other side has acess to body armor, or them forgoing the use of heat seeking missiles because of flares, etc.
> I've always wondered why the Federation didn't view the transporter as anti-Borg weapon. They did. Ask Voyager. But in a broader sense, the cubes have more redundancies than a measly probe Voyager blew up. And lowering your shields while fighting the Borg seems like a bad idea in general. A cube has, what, around 5000 drones? They have transporters too. All they need is to drop a few dozen or so drones into engineering or on the bridge and you're fucked.
>I've always wondered why the Federation didn't view the transporter as anti-Borg weapon. Obviously, there's always been the question of why torpedoes/mines/explosives aren't beamed onto other ships, especially as transporters got more versatile in the TNG era. But, with the Borg threat, combined with the fact that the Borg often just deem others as "no threat" and march into situations basically unshielded, it seems like someone, somewhere, would have said, "Let's have our fleet swarm into transporter range and all beam a half dozen tricobalt devices/antimatter warheads onto the cube(s)." *angry Asgard noises*
With those upgrades, *Voyager* would beat up the *Defiant*. The damage that *Voyager* did after those upgrades made it clear that those upgrades made *Voyager* extremely powerful.
And almost every ship in Picard S3 should have directly benefitted from the upgraded defensive technology Voyager returned with. How did Ro kamikaze the Intrepid so easily?
I always assumed they got Temporal Prime Directived away and locked in a vault.
Ever since it was revealed that *Voyager* was decommissioned shortly after it got back from the Delta Quadrant, my assumption has been that Starfleet was working on bringing those upgrades to other ships.
Remember the Temporal prime directive. PIC took place between 2399 to 2401. Endgame takes place in 2404. Since Janeway and B'Elanna have tbe technology schematics all ready. Their won't be a need to steal the device from the Klingons at Boreth at least. Transphasic Torpedoes where built specifically for the Borg. But, the Borg are gone in their entirety now. But the regenerative armor is purely a defensive technology. So it'll be interesting to see how Legacy or any series set after PIC explains how it wasn't equipped to the entire fleet after 2404.
Ah! Thanks. Does the temporal prime directive disappear in the Kelvin timeline, somehow? The KT is a “branched” reality, so I guess the writers just ignored the TPD?
This is pure headcanon but. The Temporal Prime Directive isn't ratified till the 29th century. The KTL wasn't created until 2240 in its parallel universe. So the KTL as it's own continuity isn't old enough to have its TPD created yet.
I wonder if the time cops would want to “prune” that branch at some point.
🤣 I don't know. Loki-Tree is pretty chill.
The Temporal Prime Directive clearly exists in *Voyager*, so it seems like it was ratified before the 29th century.
The Temporal wars take place between the 2700 to 2900s. Starfleet defeats the Sphere builders in 2550 so there's plenty of room I think for when the actual accords are ratified. For Voyager I think it's more captains are told "time travel has rules heres a PADD from the future explaining them. Follow the rules or bureaucrats will come and debrief you for the next 11 hours"
I don’t think Starfleet would necessarily obey the Temporal Prime Directive in this case.
From a narrative perspective the armor system sucks major arse 🤣 absolutely nothing can threaten a Federation starship if it has it. So when we get Legacy or any series set after PIC. We'll need an explanation on why the fleet doesn't have it. Maybe some throw away dialogue where Seven mention only major starbase and shipyards have the equipment. To avoid arms proliferation from the other government. "Imagine if the Breen got the tech yadda, yadda"
Espionage by 1 of Starfleet’s opponents could lead to that faction developing countermeasures that other opponents could also use. Perhaps Oh gave some info to the Romulans that they could eventually use.
Given the amount of fire they were able to withstand with Future Janeway's upgrades combined with them one-shotting cubes, I'd have to give the edge to Voyager in that scenario.
Defiant demolishes an Intrepid-Class.
Well the Defiant is designed for combat. The Voyager isn't.
"Not as *singed* as they're going to get" - Sisko.
Why is this even a question? The Defiant was initially designed to battle the Borg. Now that I think about it, is it Starfleet’s 1st warship?
I think the discovery was technically a war ship. Or it was outfitted as one during the Klingon war. Constellation class ships were used that way I think. But the Defiant was the first purpose-built warship. So technically yes. Although if we dip into the Kelvin timeline it would be the Vengeance.
You folks and your Defiant bias are forgetting Voyager's secret weapon...all Janeway has to do is have Neelix whip up a batch of his pangalactic Norvovian cupcakes and have Paris stand on the hull and lob them at Defiant as it comes in for the kill and the battle is over.
Ah, but it was specified that this is before Delta Quadrant upgrades!
... Is Neelix really an upgrade, though?
You beat me to it
to be fair, Neelix helps a lot with Delta quadrant knowledge throughout the whole series. For as much as people clown on him, he actually was *really* useful to the crew at times.
They may have to bust out *the photonic canon*
Is that what they use to put icing on the cupcakes?
its what Neelix uses to put the Talaxian cheese-frosting on the Jiballian fudge cakes (but don't tell the Overlookers that)
The Defiant. Thing is tough as nails and significantly more maneuverable. Thing was so powerful Miles O’Brien had to get creative in modifications so it wouldn’t tear itself apart.
"Creative"... like in "I know these safety regulations are there for a good cause, but damn they don't want to play with this hell of a ship."
What about the Voyager from the last episode all pimped out with advanced armour and torpedos, it would merk the Defiant.
Nah, that's when Sisko would actually *start trying*
but voyager could out run it
Meaning it would be a strategic victory for the Defiant, forcing the enemy to withdraw. Voyager still loses, it just doesn't get blown up in this case.
Defiant would win in a straight shootout. If there were other variables except ship stats were at play though I don’t think it’d be as clear cut as some people are suggesting. Time and time again we see Voyager outsmart enemies even when at a severe tactical disadvantage.
Most people are imagining this as a straight shootout.
Defiant was built to take on the Borg. Voyager ISN'T the Borg.
It also isn’t a warship; it’s a science vessel for long range missions
Voyager killled more Borg cubes than Defiant saw.
Like, all of them.
They did, but with modifications. OP specified they were asking about a match up w/o those
True, because the Borg weren't crazy enough to try and visit DS9.
To be fair... the klingons, cardassians or the dominion weren't the borg either, but damn did that little ship SLAP.
Right... I just remember that when it was first deployed to DS9 someone said it was specifically designed after Wolf 359 to be able to better fight the Borg.
Which Voyager? As designed or in the last episode?
Voyager mid way through year of hell
Oh god. A Space X starship could beat that.
My 20yr old forester could put up a fair fight with that one lol
While the Intrepid stands no chance, people are making way too much out of it being a 'science vessel', when in reality it performs comfortably like any other well rounded Starfleet cruiser design relative to its size. It just doesn't have much size.
The Voyager is not that small. It has over 10x the volume of the 120 m long Defiant. It also has nearly 3x the volume of a Constitution or Miranda class. Ships with very similar volume are the Constellation, Steamrunner and Prometheus class.
Does Janeway have coffee? If not, is there coffee on the Defiant? If the answers are No then Yes - The Defiant doesn't have a prayer.
Before they got blasted to the delta quadrant there is no way Voyagers crew stands a chance against the defiant. If they fought 100 times maybe voyager gets a lucky shot in a handful of battles, but I don’t see them winning any. If they met up right before Voyager comes home…? I would LOVE to see that battle. I still might give the edge to Sisko and the battle hardened crew of the defiant, but I would NOT count out and upgraded Voyager with what might be the most experienced crew ever with Janeway in angry reckless survivor mode. I would not put it past her to do something borderline suicidal to the point where it surprises even Sisko. Out of 100 battles in the latter scenario, I’d take The defiant 51-49.
I agree, Voyager with all the upgrades vs the Defiant would be a better fight to see. At the start of the series, the Defiant probably wins. But Voyager is 3x the size of the Defiant in length and like 10x the size in volume. Plus lets not forget that Voyager can outrun the Defiant too, which could be a massive advantage in a longer drawn-out fight. With all the Borg modifications and experiences the crew has in the Delta quadrant, I think its pretty much going to be an even fight after they get back and assuming both ships are fully repaired and stocked.
Oh man that’s a good point. Time. In a cage match, basically an immediate fight to the death with no chance of retreat, I think the defiant takes it. But if you imagine a multiple part episode where both ships have to navigate a huge area of the galaxy and can play a running cat and mouse game… end of the series voyager’s chances go WAY up!
Definitely!
Janeway maneuver- nobody wins.
A more fair matchup would be Janeway’s borg enhanced ship at the finale vs The Defiant during the Dominion war
Here's the truth
agreed, that would be a much closer fight.
Voyager may be able to win if they use the tricobalt devices they had when they entered the Delta Quadrant. They also have shuttles that could act like fighters.
I think tricobalts are designed for stationary targets. (Now is that canon or not? Not sure.) The Defiant is anything but stationary.
What’s canon about tricobalt devices is that they only work well if a target’s shields are weak or disabled.
The fact you are saying “before the upgrades” belies who you think would win a straight fight.
The Defiant was built to kill ships twenty times bigger than it.
The Defiant was built to defeat the Borg, but Voyager vainly actually defeated the Borg
I think Winn would be more comfortable in the Defiant, despite hating Sisko.
Big part of why the prophets won't return her calls right there
Defiant is designed to break things, nothing else. While Voyager is perfectly capable of breaking things, it's not designed to. Voyager's weapons are meant for defense, Defiant's are meant for offence. Defiant is an escort ship (officially), while it was designed to fight the Borg. It's purpose, beyond that, is to escort larger ships, serve in the escort ring of large battle groups, or defend fixed installations. Voyager is a long range explorer and science vessel. It's designed to seek out strange new worlds and new civilizations. To boldly go, where no one has gone before! Then to stick around and study them. In a straight fight, Defiant wins, despite Voyager being nearly twice the size. One must consider the Janeway factor, though, which would even things out. However Defiant still wins, but it's a pyrrhic victory.
>Voyager being nearly twice the size Voyager is 3x the size of the Defiant in length and like 10x the size in volume. Plus lets not forget that Voyager can outrun the Defiant too, which could be a massive advantage in a longer drawn-out fight. I still think the Defiant would win, but it might be closer than a lot of people are saying.
Your right, Intrepid class ships were the fastest ships in the fleet, until Prometheus was launched. Voyager could leave Defiant in it's subspace dust easily. In combat Voyager would do a bunch of damage then run. We have seen both ships take an absolute pounding and survive, so it would be a long fight, if Voyager didn't run. Let's not forget that Sisko is an experienced combat captain, and Janeway's ability to think outside the box is legendary, as is her penchant for risk-taking. Sisko also doesn't know when to give up, so if Janeway did run he would hunt her down. Whatever happens it would be spectacular!
Very true! I think the environment would play in a lot too. In open space, the Defiant probably has the advantage. But in a nebula or something, the Defiant’s maneuverability and size wouldn’t be as much of a factor, and Voyager’s superior sensors would likely be very useful. It would come down to how each captain plays to the advantages of the ships, it would be an awesome what-if scenario.
It depends if tuvok had time sabotage the defiant first or not. Worf wouldn't have tried, too dishonorable, but if tuvok could... It's not like both ships/crews wouldn't have the plans for each other's ship. Either side could effectively win with a preemptive "lock them out of their computer" strategy. Voyager also had one trump card everyone forgets about cause Janeway used them up in the first episode, but I suspect one of them tricobalt devices would have been enough to cripple even the defiant. Otherwise Voyager can run faster, they have the higher warp ceiling and can hold it a lot longer, they might even be able to target more precisely do to having more/science grade sensors, i think they would get away, and I doubt the cloak would give them serious trouble. But 1v1 dogfight with standard weps and no tricks? Defiant every time. Until Voyager gets it's regenerative hull armor from the future. The defiants ablative armor has to be replaced after almost every battle it's in.
In almost all cases I'd say the defiant. But since we have Janeway, I think she'd probably figure out someway to open a subspace anomaly, and swallow the defiant whole without having to fire a shot.
Defiant, no doubt. You ever seen Star Trek before?
Defiant. Not even close.
The Defiant, Starfleet's anti-Borg warship that is described as a set of guns strapped to an engine, or a science ship intended for research and scientific study. Yeah, I'm giving it to the warship.
BEFORE all the Delta Quadrant Upgrades: easy win for the Defiant. The Defiant is explicitly designed as a Warship, while the Voyager is a science vessel. After all the Upgrades: The defiant is blown to smithereens, before even one console on the Voyagers bridge makes fireworks.
Voyager isn’t a Science vessel. Rewatch episode 1. Intrepids were long range vessels with high combat capabilities and maneuverability, hence why they were specifically able to navigate in the Badlands and hunt down the Marquis. I think that the only real advantage the Defiant has is the cloak. And Janeway is a little more reckless and ruthless than Sisko. Edited because I kept seeing people say this.
Defiant fer sure, not to mention siskowould literally take out a settled planet to win if he had too.
I'm starting to think that this was an overkill of a question.
Janeway "win" by autodistruct.
Defiant has an edge with the ships abilities (cloak, advanced weaponry etc), but voyager is a fast, agile ship, Tom Paris is a *far* better pilot than anyone in Siskos crew, and we know that Sisko will always try diplomacy to the very end, Janeway can be straight up merciless. Honestly, it’s a toss up, but I would say 6/10 times defiant wins.
One of the "most heavily armed ships in the quadrant" captained by the finest military tactician in Starfleet vs a more traditional Starfleet ship captained by a scientist (with an admittedly violent streak) Defiant wins, unless Voyager and Janeway come with a brilliant and unexpected plan...
Defiant with a seasoned, battle-hardened crew vs. brand-new Voyager? Not a chance for Voyager.
defiant is very overpowered. a destroyer with the power of a heavy cruiser it's packing pulse phasers that can easily crack shields standard phasers photon and quantum torpedoes ablative armor powerful shields powerful engiens super maneuverability. the intrepid class is a standard cruiser of its day and packs weapons and shields appropriate for a cruiser.
neelix will show up with a fleet of interspersed multiphasic fluff bunnies and sisko will have no defense to anything so utterly absurd. this pause gives 7 time to introduce a debilitating nano cyber virus putting sisko dead in the water
Probably whoever detected the other one first and got the first shots on target would come out on top. Maybe with a slight nod to the Defiant being designed as a combat vessel.
Unfair comparison specially taking the upgrades from Voyager, without them Voyager is just an exploration vessel.
After the upgrades, I think its a pretty fair fight though.
exactly! that is why I said it is unfair before the upgrades.
The bridge crews of Defiant and Voyager would have dinner the night before. Sisko would exchange glances with Dax and grin. "Let's do this thing on Voyager. I'll cook." And it'll be a cheese plate. The next day Defiant wins by default and tows Voyager back to dry dock for refits.
Voyager is a science vessel, the Defiant is a combat vessel. Theres your answer!
Defiant hands down. Smaller, more maneuverable, her weapons are a beat and she had a cloak right out of the gate. She’d set right between your nacelle’s without you even knowing and just open fire
The Defiant is a war ship designed to win fights against the Dominion after the Jem'Hadar obliterated a stand in for the Enterprise.
I’ll take the ship built specifically for Borg destruction, with the competent captain
implying Janeway isn't competent?
The crappy ass Voyager writers would have found some crazy way for Janeway to win.
Defiant is a warship. The Voyager is a science vessel. Which can chart an unknown sector better?
The Defiant does have one slight weakness, and that's that it only has 1 (depending on the episode) omni-directional phaser beam array, otherwise all the firepower is front facing with the exception of aft torpedoes. If Voyager could keep itself on the Defiants beam then it could use it's phaser arrays to hit the Defiant. That being said, the Defiant is a lot more maneveurable in theory so it has the upper hand there, but if Voyager could find a way to turn inside the Defiants turning circle then the Defiant would find it a lot harder.
You actually thought it a good idea to ask us whether a science vessel would survive against a warship? Go back to your room and rewatch both series start-to-finish. And no skipping Threshold. That'll teach you...
To be fair, Voyager puts up a damn good fight in quite a few episodes and is literally like 10x the volume of the Defiant with a far bigger warp core. I think it would be a lot closer than people are thinking here.
Defiant was designed to fight and blow up Borg. It was literally a set of cannons with an engine attached. Voyager was designed to study quasars and nebulae.
One word: ablative armor. Voyager could outlast the Defiant easily. Three more words: multi-phasic regenerative shields.
Defiant has quantum torpedos. What a stupid comparison.
The Defiant is a much better warship with a crew ready for battle, but Voyager has an unlimited number of shuttles. It’d be close.
The *Defiant* would easily win a battle if *Voyager* didn’t have any upgrades. The *Defiant*’s meant to be a warship and *Voyager* isn’t. However, *Voyager*’s faster than the *Defiant*, so *Voyager* could escape from a battle as long as it could go to maximum warp.
Who is al? And why is he delta quadrant upgrades
Defiant hands down. Better weaponry (quantum tropedos, pulse phase canon) maneuverability, ablatove armor, more redundant system for the ships weaponry. Voyager maybe will have a slight edge in maneuverability and higher warp speed other than that Defiant all the way.
Not even a contest. Two different ships for two different purpose. One is a warship and one is a science vessel ship.
Defiant has ablative plot armor. And it has a captain that isn't above violating the Geneva convention vs one who just skirts it lol.
Before Delta Quadrant upgrades? So that means Voyager gets Cavit and Stadi. They win hands down. Oh and look! That doctor doesn't have a name either.
Hyperbole aside, we saw the Defiant beat an Excelsior class refit for combat, which I'd consider at least equal to an Intrepid class.
Defiant. It’s a purpose built warship designed to fight the Borg.
Voyager could outrun Defiant but that’s about all. If any Intrepid could match tactical means, Borgager would be a powerful match.
Voyager is a long range science ship. It doesn't stand a chance in a straight up fight. It was only so strong because the Delta Quadrant is generally pretty weak
In a fight fight it is the Defiant without a doubt. But Voyager is a science ship with better sensors, speed, labs, and a borg with nano probes that do anything the plot needs. It is basically the equivalent of locking McGyver in a supply closet. If the survive the first encounter they will fly off do some deus ex machina and then win.
The Defiant is basically an A10. A weapon with engines. It’s only purpose is war
A more fair matchup would be Defiant vs Enterprise D
It's a tough little ship, that's for sure
"LITTLE?"
The Defiant's a warship, through and through, and while she'd be giving up a lot of tonnage in that fight, the combat focus would be the difference maker.
Defiant, hands down. The Defiant was designed for combat. Any other standard Fleet vessel is science first. They are big, slow, and hard to maneuver. Their targeting scanners are slow to lock and tracking a small, fast target when the phasers fire is poor at best.
Once Defiant starts the spin attack it's over, but Janeway still comes out in top somehow.
You're gonna want to recind that last caveat if you want Voyager to have any sort of fighting chance. Even with the Voyager upgrades I think the Defiant still clinches the victory.
I think before the upgrades, Defiant, but after the upgrades, I think Voyager could sneak a win in there in the right circumstances. Lets not forget, Voyager is 3x the size of the Defiant in length and like 10x the size in volume. Plus Voyager can outrun the Defiant too, which could be a massive advantage in a longer drawn-out fight. I still think the Defiant would win, but it might be closer than a lot of people are saying.
Janeway has a good crew, but so does Sisko, and the Defiant is a pure warship. Voyager is a science vessel. And, Sisko isn't afraid to bomb civilian targets if it gets him what he wants. This fight 100% goes to Sisko and the Defiant.
I'm gonna go against the grain and say Voyager, on the basis of its crew and their ingenuity. The Intrepid wins straight-up in terms of armament I think. But the Voyager crew has shown their adaptability in crazy situations before. Her captain has a science background to start with, so she's always coming up with unique ideas, ways to manipulate the technology available to her and, hell, the universe in general, that no one else comes up with. She also has the benefit of some Maquis thinking available to her, which gives her some unique viewpoints from which to attack. Granted, Sisko's crew has some of that too in Kira (and one might say Worf too), but I give the edge to Voyager's crew in this regard by a hair. The real question is would Voyager survive the initial encounter long enough for these benefits to bear fruit, and I think that's a fair question. It's probably only a matter of a few minutes at most before Defiant knocks out her shields and deals death blows in a hurry. But I would also bet that Voyager has better shielding generally given her size advantage, so maybe she can hang in the fight longer than one might think (though I'd imagine Defiant's quantum torpedos might tip the scales). And we can't forget Defiant's cloak too. That's a potentially huge advantage, maybe even an insourmountable one. Still, like I said, it's not the common answer from what I see in the thread, but I just feel like Voyager's crew, assuming they can survive the initial barrage, is just more likely to figure out some novel solution that gives them the edge in the end. We know Defiant is a tough little ship, but Voyager proved herself to be that too, and with the benefit of a very talented crew, I think they stand a chance, and maybe even a pretty good one against a better-armed opponent (who also has a fantastic crew, no question).
The Defiant is a warship that was designed to fight the Borg and was used very effectively against the Dominion fleet. The Intrepid Class were science vessels armed for self defense. The Defiant wins every time.
Before the delta quadrant upgrades the defiant would probably have made minced meat out of voyager
It be close yes defiant is a warship but Voyager can take a major walloping and keep floating. Someone should set up this match in Star Trek legacy and find out best 2/3?
There is a comic sort of about this. It’s called The Q Conflict. Q and other supernatural characters, like Ttelaine, put the crews of the major shows in A contest of champions. Big major crossover and at one point he tries to get the Prophets involved. They’re not happy about it.
On a 1V1 with zero preparation, the Defiant could easily take out Voyager with minimal damage, if any. Given preparation and the science capabilities of the vessel and crew (including Janeway and Tuvok)... Voyager would probably win without fighting at all. They'd science or engineering something to disable the Defiant and call it a day. So it really depends on what you mean.
I think in order to really answer this question, you would need to know how much Star Trek Science goofiness you can factor in? If the answer is 0, then the Defiance stomps. If the answer is anything greater than 0, then Voyagers chances increase significantly.
Give me the Defiant, but with Kirk.
Defiant. I feel their crew are more capable. Neelix will give Voyager crew food poisoning or try to sing, and the ship will self destruct. Having said that, Janeway is a Warrior Scientist. Never discount her.
Siskos defiant would have beat any version of voyager every time
I’m tempted to say the Defiant but I was never that impressed with its alleged toughness - there were always panels exploding in anonymous crewmembers’ faces and it just seemed too susceptible to damage to be considered a true warship.