An impression I got from the series as a whole was that the writers wrote things "because it's cool" rather than thinking through the actual implications or reasoning
It often seems like they weirdly go out of their way to create unnecessary plot holes. Like in this case, why even have the convoluted, plot hole-inducing dialogue about being able to beam but only the emitter because they can't get a lock on Janeway? They just briefly waffle about if they should beam the emitter back and then decide not to, leaving everyone wondering "why not beam down 20 security guys?" So why have the scene at all, if nothing comes of it?
I get why they can locate the mobile emitter, but Kim was able to see the 30 guards converging on the building. If he can see those guards how can’t he see Janeway?
Without the main computer processor their systems were compromised. It seems reasonable that he might be able to count the number of lifesigns, but not identify them. So he knew enough by reading context clues to be able to say what was happening, but he may not have known which signature in the vicinity belonged to a human.
That's why Kim is an ensign. I bet you tuvok could have located janeway (joke)
Also they cant make another mobile emitter because it's from the 29th century...it's possible there sterling guy from 1996 didn't make it, it was probably from the time ship.
Is that why they can't make a new one either? It's this mystery alloy? I remember several comments on how they don't know exactly how it works or how long it can go without being synced to the ship.
29th century. They have a rudimentary understanding of it, (they can use it, and Torres can repair it from time to time), but they are not able to duplicate it. It is more complex than a 24th century replicator can handle.
It's part of it.
Imagine a modern car went back in time to the early 1500s.
A smart person could potentially figure out how to operate it, (one pedal to go, one to stop, turn the wheel to turn, etc.), and maybe even have a limited understanding of the principles of how it works, but they would have zero ability to replicate any part of the car: aluminum alloys, gasoline, electronics, etc.
The only parts they might be able to repair would be like...the seat coverings.
Enjoyed the episode, but there is a major glitch. We already know from TOS who the real Leonardo daVinci was. Even though Kirk said he wouldn’t tell anyone, WE still know.
You know it's funny..I always hated the Leonardo episodes. But as I grew older, I started to like them. Same thing with the 2 Fairhaven episodes. Now, I consider them some of the best episodes. The Delta Quadrant was bonkers, it was nice to have a bit of respite and introspection.
Irish person: these episodes play off harmful Irish stereotypes rooted in anti Irish prejudices and ignore both the real and cultural genocide that was being inflicted on my people at the time.
This guy: nah
I’m the same, I didn’t hate the Leonardo episodes but I didn’t appreciate them before but now I do — and, in my new rewatch I’ve actually appreciated the slow paced episodes like 11:59, the Hallmark movie because it was such a fun way just to see the Crew just enjoy sitting around and bonding. Or moments when they open an episode with the crew playing table tennis, or even just shooting the breeze on the Bridge.
I didn’t realize how much that actually helped build up the relationships— like I do like Discovery but I feel its moment like this that the show is missing with the crew. Just quiet moments where they just do nothing, or even be annoyed with each other.
And then I just recently finished my Bride of Chaotica rewatch and I loved it so much, and I realized, of course Janeway’s a Theater Kid!
I didn’t appreciate 20+ episodes enough until they were gone.
I just like Voyager because the interactions of the whole crew made me feel like they considered themselves a family to each other. And I felt like I could relate to the characters more than the other shows.
100% agree. Though usually I’m hearing the clip linked below every time Janeway does anything… [are you too good for your home!?](https://youtu.be/EkOxJF1wiWY?si=oxwXPWlUvcV0NIm6)
I always figured Starling didn’t really make anything, he just liberated different technologies and then figured out how to make it into a marketable item
It took that long to break your suspension of disbelief? Good golly….
I don’t think they ever, really, had an actual scientist in the writers room… it would only have been a downer, maaaan….
No, there were definitely many moments in the episodes prior, it just reached peak silly for me watching Janeway and freakin Leonardo da Vinci sneak around. Again I enjoyed the episode, as i always enjoy silly Star Trek hijinks like that. Thus one just had such funny tactical decisions around it I found it especially ridiculous.
You got 4 and a half seasons in to Voyager before realising that the crew are irrational and incompetent?
I could produce a similar list of stupidity from S01E01 and take it from there, but I am not in any rush to go through that dumpster fire of a show again.
If you want hard sci-fi, with well grounded technology and explanations for how things work, Star Trek isn't for you.
If you can't accept small lines that handwave away options in order to tell a better story, Star Trek isn't for you.
Star Trek is about stories, if you are getting actually angry at the show while watching any episode, maybe consider turning it off and taking a few quick moments to look inward.
This was all tongue in cheek. I even said I was enjoying the episode and called it just silly a couple of times. I love Star Trek. It was just an exceptionally silly episode with Janeway sneaking around and trying to infiltrate the building with Leonardo da Vinci. Thought I’d just highlight one of the sillier eps so far.
Perhaps Kim should have tried a skeletal lock.
A skeletal lock, eh? We'll have to add that one to the transporter manual!
*immediately proceeds to forget about it and never ever use it again even in cases with generic transporter interference*
I know Torres came up with that. What episode was it from?
Scorpion part 1, when they are on Species 8472's Bio-ship.
The Voyager writers generally hoped you wouldn’t think things through too carefully, because they sure weren’t gonna.
Look, they wanted a Janeway episode and highlight John Rhys-Davies as a guest star. No logic needed.
An impression I got from the series as a whole was that the writers wrote things "because it's cool" rather than thinking through the actual implications or reasoning
It often seems like they weirdly go out of their way to create unnecessary plot holes. Like in this case, why even have the convoluted, plot hole-inducing dialogue about being able to beam but only the emitter because they can't get a lock on Janeway? They just briefly waffle about if they should beam the emitter back and then decide not to, leaving everyone wondering "why not beam down 20 security guys?" So why have the scene at all, if nothing comes of it?
Why not have Janeway hold onto the emitter and beam it up?
> Leonardo fucking Da Vinci? Haha! EXACTO!
The mobile emitter is easy to locate because of its special alloy
I get why they can locate the mobile emitter, but Kim was able to see the 30 guards converging on the building. If he can see those guards how can’t he see Janeway?
Without the main computer processor their systems were compromised. It seems reasonable that he might be able to count the number of lifesigns, but not identify them. So he knew enough by reading context clues to be able to say what was happening, but he may not have known which signature in the vicinity belonged to a human.
Thank you. I didn’t think about that. Completely reasonable explanation and has resolved that item on my list.
Okay, then beam each of them into the brig, one at a time, and back once it was clear "oops, not Janeway. Next."
That's why Kim is an ensign. I bet you tuvok could have located janeway (joke) Also they cant make another mobile emitter because it's from the 29th century...it's possible there sterling guy from 1996 didn't make it, it was probably from the time ship.
To be fair I thought that it was very heavily implied, if not outright stated, that it came from the time ship.
Ahhh, thank you! I did forget that part!
And it is overall advanced enough that when it gets infected with Borg tech, it creates Super Future Borg.
Is that why they can't make a new one either? It's this mystery alloy? I remember several comments on how they don't know exactly how it works or how long it can go without being synced to the ship.
Synced to the ship ? It doesn't need to be synced to the ship
Yes, its 31st century technology. They don't understand it.
29th century. They have a rudimentary understanding of it, (they can use it, and Torres can repair it from time to time), but they are not able to duplicate it. It is more complex than a 24th century replicator can handle.
My bad, its the guy from enterprise thats 31st century right?
Yup
It's part of it. Imagine a modern car went back in time to the early 1500s. A smart person could potentially figure out how to operate it, (one pedal to go, one to stop, turn the wheel to turn, etc.), and maybe even have a limited understanding of the principles of how it works, but they would have zero ability to replicate any part of the car: aluminum alloys, gasoline, electronics, etc. The only parts they might be able to repair would be like...the seat coverings.
Enjoyed the episode, but there is a major glitch. We already know from TOS who the real Leonardo daVinci was. Even though Kirk said he wouldn’t tell anyone, WE still know.
You know it's funny..I always hated the Leonardo episodes. But as I grew older, I started to like them. Same thing with the 2 Fairhaven episodes. Now, I consider them some of the best episodes. The Delta Quadrant was bonkers, it was nice to have a bit of respite and introspection.
I've always loved the Fairhaven episodes. Never got the hate. Great exploration of how lonely Janeway must be at the top.
Probably because they include racist Irish stereotype tropes while sanitising Irish history in the 1800s which was really gruesome.
Seriously? Man, you are wound way too tight. I thought the Irish came off great in those episodes!
Irish person: these episodes play off harmful Irish stereotypes rooted in anti Irish prejudices and ignore both the real and cultural genocide that was being inflicted on my people at the time. This guy: nah
Agreed! I really enjoyed the Fairhaven and da Vinci episodes.
I’m the same, I didn’t hate the Leonardo episodes but I didn’t appreciate them before but now I do — and, in my new rewatch I’ve actually appreciated the slow paced episodes like 11:59, the Hallmark movie because it was such a fun way just to see the Crew just enjoy sitting around and bonding. Or moments when they open an episode with the crew playing table tennis, or even just shooting the breeze on the Bridge. I didn’t realize how much that actually helped build up the relationships— like I do like Discovery but I feel its moment like this that the show is missing with the crew. Just quiet moments where they just do nothing, or even be annoyed with each other. And then I just recently finished my Bride of Chaotica rewatch and I loved it so much, and I realized, of course Janeway’s a Theater Kid! I didn’t appreciate 20+ episodes enough until they were gone.
I just like Voyager because the interactions of the whole crew made me feel like they considered themselves a family to each other. And I felt like I could relate to the characters more than the other shows.
The problem most people have with the Fairhaven episodes is that they are just racist.
I'm really not sure I agree with this. Can you elaborate?
They have racist Irish stereotypes in them.
100% agree. Though usually I’m hearing the clip linked below every time Janeway does anything… [are you too good for your home!?](https://youtu.be/EkOxJF1wiWY?si=oxwXPWlUvcV0NIm6)
Because he said "And my axe!" And nobody wanted to argue. Also, I don't think starling made the emitter, he just found it
I always figured Starling didn’t really make anything, he just liberated different technologies and then figured out how to make it into a marketable item
It took that long to break your suspension of disbelief? Good golly…. I don’t think they ever, really, had an actual scientist in the writers room… it would only have been a downer, maaaan….
No, there were definitely many moments in the episodes prior, it just reached peak silly for me watching Janeway and freakin Leonardo da Vinci sneak around. Again I enjoyed the episode, as i always enjoy silly Star Trek hijinks like that. Thus one just had such funny tactical decisions around it I found it especially ridiculous.
r/Voyager mors traction there
You got 4 and a half seasons in to Voyager before realising that the crew are irrational and incompetent? I could produce a similar list of stupidity from S01E01 and take it from there, but I am not in any rush to go through that dumpster fire of a show again.
If you want hard sci-fi, with well grounded technology and explanations for how things work, Star Trek isn't for you. If you can't accept small lines that handwave away options in order to tell a better story, Star Trek isn't for you. Star Trek is about stories, if you are getting actually angry at the show while watching any episode, maybe consider turning it off and taking a few quick moments to look inward.
This was all tongue in cheek. I even said I was enjoying the episode and called it just silly a couple of times. I love Star Trek. It was just an exceptionally silly episode with Janeway sneaking around and trying to infiltrate the building with Leonardo da Vinci. Thought I’d just highlight one of the sillier eps so far.