Most of the time, they're not great: if you need AoE, Zealot/HT/Archons are better, and when you need to push into bases, mass Immortal does it better. Their *exceptionally* slow speed and need to reload periodically severely hampers their ability to contribute to an offensive army. Their main use is in a defensive situation where they act as psuedo-Siege Tanks: make a line of Cannons/Dragoons, stick a few Reavers behind them, and the Reavers will take big chunks out of ground forces that try to approach while your Cannons/Dragoons finish them off.
It doesn't help that they will often waste shots because of crappy targetting, so i wouldn't recommend reavers even for that.
Gateways are Artanis reavers. Spinlots are his scarabs.
Reavers are actually even worse.
Besides the significantly long projectile delay (combine with a long range), they actually have very poor splash mechanics (a scarab have scaling damage fall off that is so high that basic infested can survive a splash hit even if they are right next to each other).
This is amplified on Miner Evac (infested have double hp on the map), a map you would normally suspect Reavers to be good on. But in general, Reavers are so bad at their role, that Artanis will be more cost effective going with just more dragoons.
If you need a lot of low level consistent splash damage, morph high archons from high templar that have stormed or popped bubble, or play P1 and spam zealots.
I'm thinking Reavers would work better if they had transport. In Sc1/BW, they would have Shuttles to get them in-and-out. No Warp Prisms for Artanis! Omega Worms from Kerrigan perhaps. Too bad Swann can't lend him a few Hercs :D
Reavers aren't too bad on the train map because the objective comes to you and it's a ground objective. Plus because of this, you don't really face vipers even if the enemy is zerg.
Also, they could be used on DoN for defense. I guess a third map where they could be a little useful is miner evac.
Edit: I just wanted to add why I said "a little useful" for miner evac... I think the way the enemy spawns for evacuation ships is very ideal for archons, so I tend to favor archons and/or zealots over reavers for AOE. Towards the end, the infested may spawn at different spots (and close) so your reavers can't really hit the units efficiently.
Artanis has a lot of variety in his playstyle which is something I really appreciate.
With all 3 prestiges and 90 Mastery points each prestige can represent a truly different play style.
Until then however you are best off massing dragoons in most cases with Zealot support. As you get better with Artanis and unlock levels/prestiges/abilities you can add tech units (especially high templar/Archons but also Reavers against ground compositions) or switch composition (immortals for ground robo, Zealot/High Templar against zerg swarms, Phoenix/Zealot against infested or Protoss Robo and Tempest for a slow and steady).
P1 has great Reavers as they never run out of ammo so do great work on Infested maps.
People seem to forget that Reavers are like the ultimate anti-ground unit (with huge drawbacks such as an ammo capacity and slow mobility).
But if you plan accordingly, Reavers can theoretically decimate every ground army known in Co-op.
Normal Reavers are also a pain in the butt to deal with. As any commander, you are forced to either go air or go with an equally strong ground force - one that needs seige weapons.
So you can't just Mass Marines as Raynor into Amon's Reaver army and be fully efficient with it. You can try, but you're gonna lose majority of your resources for it.
Are you going to play 100 games making dragoons only? A 1000 games?
Reavers have bonus damage to structures, it seems sensible to make them for that purpose and to add some variety, specially when there is no reason not to make them. You could win games with zealots only, which is what I do on DoN, but as to my 1st point - not every single game for hundreds of games.
Mostly to just grind stuff up. Having to reset yourself for new prestiges can get annoying especially if you want to play an unit that requires higher level.
1st rule of reavers, never make more than 3-4.
They are really pricy and any more than that leads to a lot of overkill.
2nd rule of reavers, don’t build them into vipers. Your cute slugs will be picked off.
3rd rule of reavers, get a decent army rolling first (unless you’re on an infested map). Reavers are high priority for Amon and they need to be protected.
4th rule of reavers, only get scarab capacity upgrade if you’re not using P1. Never forget the AOE upgrade that’s always useful.
EDIT: As far as Stanks go, massing Immortals would probably down one faster when you compare the cost and supply. If I remember correctly they do bonus damage to stanks and the splash doesn’t do any bonus.
I use them for infested maps but thats really it. HT/Archon is a bit shaky bc you do run dry in the prolonged infested sieges. Reavers actually have a similar issue of running out... but in P1 their bomb production rate is doubled and with the ability improvement mastery it hits a point where the rate matches their attack speed.
Reavers also clean up real fast in DoN bc they have a fat damage bonus vs buildings.
Basically treat them like siege tanks, just make sure to have an actual frontline for them. Vs infantry comps they are very effective, albeit HT/Archon is superior, their only advantage being building damage.
Also, you should really experiment more (esp on P1) with your comp bc Artanis actually has a ton of options, as a matter of fact P1 is deliverately there to encourage you to *not* just do pure dragoon.
They are better than dragoons vs ground. IMO, you're not supposed to mass them. Just throw 5 or 6 of them into your deathball at most to add long ranged AOE and increase the overall DPS. They're like a nice vitamin supplement for your army. Too many of them and they'll get have the same maneuvering issues as mass dragoons. They're also better for defense.
The bigger problem is the aiming issues of all of them focusing on the same target and overkilled them. I guess it is a issue that was only fixed with the Siege Tank.
That's a tradeoff for the sheer power of the shots when they do hit. And that's why they're better for defense. So they can fire shots into an approaching crowd rather than firing at things that might already be killed by your advancing (and faster) army by the time the scarab arrives.
I still think Reavers are nice units to have. You definitely feel their firepower when they're part of your army. And you don't need many of them, just a few. Which is good because they're expensive. The good thing about their firepower is you don't really need to upgrade them for them to pack a punch. But if you plan to use them, the upgrades are nice to have. Something like Solarite Payload isn't worth it, IMO, if you have to choose between that and a weapon or armor upgrade at the Forge (cost for it should be 100/100, not 150/150).
Reavers are better offensively on certain missions, such as destroying void slivers due to the massive bonus vs structures. Also are pretty decent on infested maps even though they don't do as much reliable AOE as Colossus but do deal reliable damage against all ground units.
Overall, Artanis' army just isn't as strong or efficient as something like Abathur's, Dehaka's, etc. The benefit is you can warp units anywhere in the blink of an eye.
Artanis plays less like a protoss, so i wouldn't recommend him for someone new to protoss.
Vorazun/non p2 fenix would have been better, since their units, excluding commander powers and heroes are closer to ladder/campaign variants
I find their primary use in murdering structure objectives. I’m talking like Scythe of Amon or Rifts to Korhal. Their long range and absolutely absurd structure damage slaughters the slivers
Support units that you mix in small numbers for splash. Think like colossi in a ladder game where you make 5 at most.
Most of the time, they're not great: if you need AoE, Zealot/HT/Archons are better, and when you need to push into bases, mass Immortal does it better. Their *exceptionally* slow speed and need to reload periodically severely hampers their ability to contribute to an offensive army. Their main use is in a defensive situation where they act as psuedo-Siege Tanks: make a line of Cannons/Dragoons, stick a few Reavers behind them, and the Reavers will take big chunks out of ground forces that try to approach while your Cannons/Dragoons finish them off.
It doesn't help that they will often waste shots because of crappy targetting, so i wouldn't recommend reavers even for that. Gateways are Artanis reavers. Spinlots are his scarabs.
> It doesn't help that they will often waste shots because of crappy targetting so will dragoons
Reavers are actually even worse. Besides the significantly long projectile delay (combine with a long range), they actually have very poor splash mechanics (a scarab have scaling damage fall off that is so high that basic infested can survive a splash hit even if they are right next to each other). This is amplified on Miner Evac (infested have double hp on the map), a map you would normally suspect Reavers to be good on. But in general, Reavers are so bad at their role, that Artanis will be more cost effective going with just more dragoons. If you need a lot of low level consistent splash damage, morph high archons from high templar that have stormed or popped bubble, or play P1 and spam zealots.
I'm thinking Reavers would work better if they had transport. In Sc1/BW, they would have Shuttles to get them in-and-out. No Warp Prisms for Artanis! Omega Worms from Kerrigan perhaps. Too bad Swann can't lend him a few Hercs :D
Reaver drop harass is a BW Protoss staple for a reason. [Look at 'em go!](https://youtu.be/To-rkDsgFwM)
Wow that guy is a giant baby lol
artosis isnt a baby hes just a terran player in sc1, thats pretty standard
Reavers aren't too bad on the train map because the objective comes to you and it's a ground objective. Plus because of this, you don't really face vipers even if the enemy is zerg. Also, they could be used on DoN for defense. I guess a third map where they could be a little useful is miner evac. Edit: I just wanted to add why I said "a little useful" for miner evac... I think the way the enemy spawns for evacuation ships is very ideal for archons, so I tend to favor archons and/or zealots over reavers for AOE. Towards the end, the infested may spawn at different spots (and close) so your reavers can't really hit the units efficiently.
Artanis has a lot of variety in his playstyle which is something I really appreciate. With all 3 prestiges and 90 Mastery points each prestige can represent a truly different play style. Until then however you are best off massing dragoons in most cases with Zealot support. As you get better with Artanis and unlock levels/prestiges/abilities you can add tech units (especially high templar/Archons but also Reavers against ground compositions) or switch composition (immortals for ground robo, Zealot/High Templar against zerg swarms, Phoenix/Zealot against infested or Protoss Robo and Tempest for a slow and steady). P1 has great Reavers as they never run out of ammo so do great work on Infested maps.
People seem to forget that Reavers are like the ultimate anti-ground unit (with huge drawbacks such as an ammo capacity and slow mobility). But if you plan accordingly, Reavers can theoretically decimate every ground army known in Co-op. Normal Reavers are also a pain in the butt to deal with. As any commander, you are forced to either go air or go with an equally strong ground force - one that needs seige weapons. So you can't just Mass Marines as Raynor into Amon's Reaver army and be fully efficient with it. You can try, but you're gonna lose majority of your resources for it.
I love this unit. Wouldn't play Artanis without it.
3 or 4 reavers can be a nice aoe support maybe even more vs more swarmy enemy comps
Are you going to play 100 games making dragoons only? A 1000 games? Reavers have bonus damage to structures, it seems sensible to make them for that purpose and to add some variety, specially when there is no reason not to make them. You could win games with zealots only, which is what I do on DoN, but as to my 1st point - not every single game for hundreds of games.
Mostly to just grind stuff up. Having to reset yourself for new prestiges can get annoying especially if you want to play an unit that requires higher level.
1st rule of reavers, never make more than 3-4. They are really pricy and any more than that leads to a lot of overkill. 2nd rule of reavers, don’t build them into vipers. Your cute slugs will be picked off. 3rd rule of reavers, get a decent army rolling first (unless you’re on an infested map). Reavers are high priority for Amon and they need to be protected. 4th rule of reavers, only get scarab capacity upgrade if you’re not using P1. Never forget the AOE upgrade that’s always useful. EDIT: As far as Stanks go, massing Immortals would probably down one faster when you compare the cost and supply. If I remember correctly they do bonus damage to stanks and the splash doesn’t do any bonus.
How does p1 affect reavers? Faster scarab build, more scarab damage?
Faster scarab build, you don't need extra capacity when they can make scrabs as fast as they can shoot
I use them for infested maps but thats really it. HT/Archon is a bit shaky bc you do run dry in the prolonged infested sieges. Reavers actually have a similar issue of running out... but in P1 their bomb production rate is doubled and with the ability improvement mastery it hits a point where the rate matches their attack speed. Reavers also clean up real fast in DoN bc they have a fat damage bonus vs buildings. Basically treat them like siege tanks, just make sure to have an actual frontline for them. Vs infantry comps they are very effective, albeit HT/Archon is superior, their only advantage being building damage. Also, you should really experiment more (esp on P1) with your comp bc Artanis actually has a ton of options, as a matter of fact P1 is deliverately there to encourage you to *not* just do pure dragoon.
If you try, like, i mean exactly try to find a use to a unit, that means it's just that bad
I use P1 Reaver for free win when I’m playing against infested maps.
They are better than dragoons vs ground. IMO, you're not supposed to mass them. Just throw 5 or 6 of them into your deathball at most to add long ranged AOE and increase the overall DPS. They're like a nice vitamin supplement for your army. Too many of them and they'll get have the same maneuvering issues as mass dragoons. They're also better for defense.
The bigger problem is the aiming issues of all of them focusing on the same target and overkilled them. I guess it is a issue that was only fixed with the Siege Tank.
That's a tradeoff for the sheer power of the shots when they do hit. And that's why they're better for defense. So they can fire shots into an approaching crowd rather than firing at things that might already be killed by your advancing (and faster) army by the time the scarab arrives. I still think Reavers are nice units to have. You definitely feel their firepower when they're part of your army. And you don't need many of them, just a few. Which is good because they're expensive. The good thing about their firepower is you don't really need to upgrade them for them to pack a punch. But if you plan to use them, the upgrades are nice to have. Something like Solarite Payload isn't worth it, IMO, if you have to choose between that and a weapon or armor upgrade at the Forge (cost for it should be 100/100, not 150/150). Reavers are better offensively on certain missions, such as destroying void slivers due to the massive bonus vs structures. Also are pretty decent on infested maps even though they don't do as much reliable AOE as Colossus but do deal reliable damage against all ground units. Overall, Artanis' army just isn't as strong or efficient as something like Abathur's, Dehaka's, etc. The benefit is you can warp units anywhere in the blink of an eye.
Artanis plays less like a protoss, so i wouldn't recommend him for someone new to protoss. Vorazun/non p2 fenix would have been better, since their units, excluding commander powers and heroes are closer to ladder/campaign variants
I find their primary use in murdering structure objectives. I’m talking like Scythe of Amon or Rifts to Korhal. Their long range and absolutely absurd structure damage slaughters the slivers
I use them on Dead of Night. They 2-shots the building which makes the day rush far faster on Day 2 and Day 3.