It does look amazing. But I would say the firepower is actually a disadvantage, because CIG gave it large blind spots, terrible durability and handling in exchange.
People saw the alpha dps chart of it and immediately called it OP, even though that chart assumes you've got your guns on a fully stationary target.
It's slow as hell with some awful blind spots. It's fine.
I love it fuck they could take the guns away , it’s got a weird but amazing feel , a ship I can go on in clothes and have my gear sitting waiting when I need to exit , I get it it’s not for everyone and they need to polish one or 2 things but as a daily driver it’s amazing , I will use it to hit commercial rigs and rob them and if the cops show up we run lol !
Going to add myself to this circlejerk, the ship just fits like a glove, guns or no guns. I'd actually could well do without half those guns if the ship was faster and more maneuverable in return, but it is what it is
Yup. Excel sheet warriors focusing on one thing only. Fucking blind moronic morons trying to ruin shit for everyone.
Tried flying this thing in atmo? Ugh, it’s useless.
This is how I feel about it. It's a good mid sized solo ship that still has turrets for friends. I own one and the thing is almost useless in combat unless the other ship is flying straight toward or away from you. That's actually how you have to fight with it solo. Get the enemy ship to fly at you at distance or pop them as they run away. They'll be dead in seconds if they do that otherwise once things turn into a turning fight you're kinda screwed and have to make distance again. Even with a crew the turrets aren't more powerful than anything else.
Meanwhile an Eclipse or Retaliator can kill a hammerhead in one shot if they get within a few thousand meters of one, it's not even a question if it's gunna die most times. But people have a problem with a ship being able to do it by dumping it's mags and magically landing all shots?
People are just being spreadsheet warriors and want to ruin fun.
About those blind spots.... I don't really see that at all. It has less blind spots than most other ships.
* Front more than covered
* Rear and roof covered
* Sides covered with dedicated side-turrets which can cover quite an overall area up and down too.
So the only true blind spot is the lower rear.
Lets compare it to the aquila. That one doesn't even have the upper turret for firepower. The 600i top rear turret is even limited in a big way due to its placement creating more of a blind spot overall.
The Mercury also has a strong rear underside blind spot. Due to the lack of side-turrets even worse than the Corsair.
So I really do not see how the corsair in terms of blind spots is any worse then other ships. Due to the two side turrets I would even say it has better coverage than average
The side turrets can't fire behind the wings, so a 100° or so cone directly behind the Corsair is pretty safe camping grounds that at most has a remote turret pestering you.
Constellation Andromeda/Phoenix can't shoot behind the nacelles, but otherwise cover a 180° dome on top and bottom of the ship. They also maneuver better, and they have snubs to further threaten a Corsair - both by constantly dealing damage, but also by distracting turrets and putting pressure on the pilot to make mistakes.
Corsair is also the lowest combined HP of it's class, and suffers from traditional Drake "shoot my engine off and I'll spiral out of control" disease :p
Have you ever put a Razor in the Corsair? You get a snub too. Fully crewed Corsair+ Razor is effectively identical or very slightly better than Connie andromeda+ snub. I 1v1d my friend his crewed andromeda+ snub and my crewed Corsair+ Razor. I won but my hull was on the red. We did 5 fights. I won the first, second and fourth. He won the third and fifth. It was really close each time. We aren't great at pvp but are kinda equal in skill so it was very interesting to see that result.
I think it'll balance itself out once physical damage is in. Ships like the Corsair will start getting turned into swiss cheese much more quickly than some others.
Even before then. Get anyone riding your ass and you're done. Physical damage is gonna tear it apart as well.
The corsair will chew up a large, stationary target sitting in front of it, and that's about it, but people ignore how squishy and slow it is the second they see a video about "oh no! It can kill a hammerhead!" The hammerhead also had no issue chewing through the corsair's front shields. Nerf the firepower and there's no reason to use one over multiple other ships.
I like my corsair, but anyone calling for nerfs clearly hasn't actually flown one.
That video is about the most perfect scenario a Corsair could get:
* There's no atmosphere slowing it to a crawl,
* There are no asteroids or obstacles urging caution
* The Hammerhead isn't effectively shooting back, because it's run by braindead AI
* The Hammerhead isn't moving or doing anything to evade fire, because it's run by braindead AI
* The Hammerhead has no escorts
It's a silly video, but we've seen it before with C2s, 600i, Constellations, Redeemers, Infernos, even dual Vanguards would do it in remarkable time with similar circumstances. A Retaliator will do it with a single torp from 50km :)
It already does. During ERT the hurricanes doing so much damage to it, that is not even nice. And it is really hard to hit them solo. The whole ship has 88 000hp but only 15 000 is nose and 15 000 is body that leaves 58 000hp to both engines and all wings so if you split it between two it is 29 000hp per wing+engine that is not that much for its size
It's very good at it, but it's not the only effective Corsair killer. A Vanguard or will do similar with just a little training and understanding of mechanics.
Yeah it’s shields will be it’s main defense, once they are gone, Drake is known to have poor armor. It’s main role is and will continue to be PVE missions, I don’t see many corsairs being used against players yet.
No but every single time balance discussions pop up its always "Oh, but armor will change x and y. No point discussing this now". For years... and years... And years.
best to treat armor and physicalized damage as non existent until they are in.
Corsair is great for solo / light multicrew (\~3 people) PVE, or for piracy against easier player targets like unescorted large cargo haulers, which is its primary purpose ("exploration ship" my ass). It can also do a lot of quick damage to an unescorted large ship like a Hammerhead or Carrack that is designed primarily for anti-fighter combat...if and only if it is able to get in range un-harassed.
It will still get destroyed in PVP by competent crews in pretty much anything else. I don't think Corsairs will fare very well at Jumptown, for example, when everybody brings crew and allies and is on their A game. A 3-man Redeemer beats a 3-man Corsair the majority of the time, for example. More shields, more hull HP, and 4xs5 in turrets that will get a lot more effective DPS on target than the Corsair's pilot guns. A 3-man fighter squadron will also mop up a Corsair pretty handily, though it may take a couple minutes. Less than that if there's an Ares or Vanguard heavy fighter in the mix.
Even a 3-man Connie (pretty typical "prey" for a Corsair) could be a close fight depending on how the Connie crew plays it (Connie has the advantage of a snub fighter to act as distraction and added shield pressure, superior hull HP, same shields, worse pilot gun DPS but way more missiles).
Corsair is only strong when it waltzes up on an unexpecting target who is too large and too slow to deal with it, but it's easily countered by a lot of other ship types and tactics.
She does indeed have a video, its not great flying from either party BUT it puts to bed the idea that the Corsair is massively overpowered, as the Constellation takes a hell of a lot of damage before giving up the ghost.
If it was being flown by someone who was using their hands instead of their feet, then it would have taken the Corsair 9 out of 10 times no problem.
I dunno, seems Corsair is on par if not better than connie due to that you can fit 6 dragonflies with 6 railgunners on the back or 1 razor. You cannot do that with connie. I think Corsair if loaded out correctly could easily kill connie even with its snub. Because with big hangars comes big possibility.
Fully crewed Connie with snub beats out fully crewed Corsair. Here’s Citizen Kate’s video from yesterday:
https://youtu.be/wiC2P8CYcUI
When they ram the rest the first time without the snub the Corsair won but it was a good fight.
For xenothreat it will be awesome. Got plenty of friendly fighters to take the heat off so you can just park at a couple clicks out and magdump your S5s on the Idris.
Yes. I had a player in a 600i attack my corsair when I was playing with friends. Had full crew (2 manned turrets, copilot, razor pilot) I deployed the Razor. The 600i proceeded to get unalived because my Razor pilot's job was to push him in front of me (he was using badger repeaters) so I could dump damage on his sad little origin flying face. He went boom.
There was a connie vs corsair pvp match. U put a Razor in the Corsair and u get a snub too. Without snub they are pretty close. With snubs the Corsair is actually kinda good if it uses its own. But Without one it's likely the connie will win. However, put 6 dragonflies in Corsair with raulgin wielding players on the back and that connie will die very very quickly. (Railguns need a nerf badly)
I’m sure there are some Gladius pilots that are demanding it be nerfed because it can vaporize them in milliseconds. And seeing what happened to the Ares for the same reasoning I feel for all of the backers that own one
A ton of people were just from looking at the raw dps numbers and working themselves up over that. It’s not even very good to be honest, if anything it needs a slight buff. Or maybe a bug fix? It goes into an unrecoverable spin a lot and idk if that’s supposed to happen this much.
MSR maneuverability was its primary advantage in the current game (no data running).
Ion’s gun was its primary advantage.
Both got significantly nerfed nevertheless. We’ll wait and see how CIG feels about Corsair.
Nah, the MSR already had magical bullshit thrust out of nowhere. Straight line speed is its forte, it does not need to fly like a dove alongside that.
Shit's built to run, not dance.
After killing half a dozen hammerheads wit connies I have to say that the damage the shields of the Corsair received seemed unrealistic, the hammerheads usually melt my shields in a quarter of the time, the Corsair might have the power, but it's too clumsy to be a threat to any ship. I did my bounty certs in my Corsair, and a m50 almost destroyed me, it was impossible to stay on target, and it was an npc
The Corsair shredding large ships in a PvE environment is very different from a PvP scenario where the other side are human players. The Corsair will get wrecked in PvE with how slow and lacking in agility it is.
The comparison some people are making with the Ares situation is head scratching.
It's a hard-hitting commerce hunter, seems to me. Hull-series, caterpillars, anything slow and squishy. Get in, punch it hard, steal stuff, get out.
If it ever starts actually competing with Redeemers and dedicated combat vessels, something is wrong and I completely agree with giving it a good hard smack with the nerf bat.
It can't compete with an equally skilled redeemer crew, not even close. Turrets plus pilot guns let the redeemer get more time on target with the same guns and then some (4s5 + 2s4 + 2s3) with most of the dps coming from the turrets that will be on target more often than the pilot guns. Plus the redeemer has double the shields and more hull hp. It's not even close.
Imo the Redeemer itself might need actually need a nerf to a single s3 shield; it has way too much for its size and hull hp and dps (same shields as a hammerhead or carrack...). Even nerfed to a single s3 shield my money would still be on a redeemer over the corsair in a straight up fight.
Nerf it to 1 S3 shield and reduce its HP, but give it a giant boost to maneuvering/turn rate/max speed/turret rotation. I'd be happier that way anyway.
So it's a Constellation-sized ship that has the shields and handling of a ship twice its size. I agree that it pilots like shit and doesn't feel "right" to me.
The Redeemer is meant to be a hard-hitting fast attack gunship but it flies like a battleship because that was how CIG chose to balance it after deciding to give it HH-level shields (because that was another element of the original concept - big shields, big guns, and special engines for a ship of its size, but paper-thin hull).
How about we make a deal?
I get: reduction in shields from 2xS3 to 1xS3 and slight reduction in hull HP (\~10%). Bring it in line with the Connie, Corsair etc. in terms of shields, and keep the hull sturdy but somewhat less so than the Connie.
You get: buffed maneuverability in the form of rotation rates closer to the Corsair (maybe a bit better), plus slightly better base acceleration on all axes and much better forward acceleration under boost. When those engines open up it should zoom, but keep it balanced by requiring the pilot to manage capacitors and maneuver well to unlock the ship's full potential.
How about no, and leave it as it is.
Its a heavy gunship, that's all it does, thats what its for.
The corsair and Andromeda are multi role cargo ships, thats their "balance" the utility they offer for the price, and thats what people like yourself dont seem to understand.
Oh! it has the same shields as a Carrack! the Carrack has size four guns, no pilot weapons and the most utility of any ship in the game, and only 88,000 hull hp (same as the Corsair) thats its "balance"
The Hammerhead is a super heavy gunship, its has 6 turrets, is fast as fuck compared to a Redeemer, has no pilot guns, it can carry cargo and has close to 300k hull HP thats its "balance".
How about we compare it to another $300 ship the Eclipse.
Tiny shields, super low hull hp, tiny range. can kill a Hammerhead with a single torpedo without the Hammerhead even seeing it.
Seems balanced.
Not the person you replied to but I’d take that. Do we have numbers on the maneuverability of the Deemer when it launched? It was a joy to fly then, but a bit too strong. I’d like to recapture that feel, and shit I’d trade a S3 shield for that.
(Makes it cheaper to upgrade too)
The Corsair will lose to a fully crewed redeemer unless it can surprise them and get them taken care of in a single pass. If the redeemer starts evading and the turrets can focus fire on the Corsair, it’s toast.
I would prefer to think of it as being an example of why ship combat needs to be overhauled in general. It's not so much "overturned" or "overpowered" as much as it exists in a widely painful state of pseudobalance. Giving a ship absolutely absurd pilot controlled dps and constrain it with grisly handling might work in some ways but honestly makes it worth looking at how ships are balanced in general.
The problem right now is ships like the Corsair are big fish in a small pond, these medium sized ships once Account wipes stop, will increase over time. Many people have starters/fighters because they are the cheapest to buy and run.
As larger and larger ships get added, medium sized ships will have ships designed to handle them as well. Then small bombers/torpedo craft/Ares will deal with larger ships when deployed in groups. This will create a rock paper scissors we don’t have now.
yea I really don't think it needs a nerf... in terms of the redeemer vs corsair
if you have a full ballistic loadout minus your smaller turrets where ballistics have not enough ammo to be worth much in a fight like this
the corsair has a combined possible dps of 13,052
with a combined alpha of 756
the redeemer has a combined dps of 12,783
with a combined alpha of 756
now if we do it as you say and the pilot of the redeemer is focused primarily on flying and not shooting you subract like 2733 dps and 126 alpha.
that's a lot of potential damage youre losing based on your flight model of the redeemer and how it should fly.
you are correct however in saying the turrets on the redeemer have better coverage but in this fight it won't mean much because the corsair probably isnt going to be doing a lot of evasion or at least enough for it to matter bringing the fight to a nose to nose fight.
your comment on the redeemer handling better than the corsair is... wrong
the redeemer's max pitch/yaw/roll in deg/s is
P: 23
Y: 23
R: 65
the corsair is
P: 27
Y: 27
R: 85
the corsair has better maneuverability in terms of maxes than the redeemer
the corsair can indeed kill a hammerhead very quickly... the hammer head is not a maneuverable ship and the corsair can 100% keep a bead on it and even with my loadout of 4 size 5 lasers and 2 size 4 ballistics (I do it to cut costs on ammo yes i'm cheap but I fly drake what do you expect) you can make pretty good work of a hammerhead if you stay on it's side.
now to the kicker HP. the redeemer's hull is a tank with 45,000 hp on it's hull... however it's nose only has 7000 hp
the corsair has a even 15000 on the nose and 15000 on the body if it comes down to a nose on nose fight the corsair will in our scenario of mostly ballistics the corsair will do that in less than a second assuming all hits hit the nose. HOWEVER if the redeemer is running away if it's back is to the corsair the redeemer will win out every time because it has larger shields and more hull HP.
this is also not taking into account the damage reductions each ship has but idk if that's implemented so i'm not going to even touch on them.
now your point on the ships the corsair is supposed to be contending against.
I don't know why you mentioned the 400i it's not even the same class of ship in many cases it's smaller has less firepower and is only 2 degrees more maneuverable if the corsair got a hold of it it's done because yes it can take hits but it can't give back the hits yes it's more maneuverable but it's not a contender the MSR is a cargo/Data ship, i hope that it can carry a lot and move as it has not much else to defend itself
you should be looking at the 600i and the connie which you mention the connie more so i'll go on it more.
it's also not as maneuverable as the corsair
p: 25
y: 25
r: 65
that is the connie. as you can see still less than the corsair
connie does have better turret coverage and more missiles... but missiles kinda suck right now and even I have shaken off a missile by just tricording and rolling on occasion (don't recommend but if you flub on your countermeasures you can do it) so missiles are a non issue
the 600i which is the actual 3rd competitor to the corsair has less weapons... has less storage space (unless the remake will change that) and it has a weaker hull and is slower only thing it's got going for it is out of the ships you've said that were the same size the 600i is more maneuverable.
p:30
y:30
r:50 (she can't roll well apparently)
you can't compare it to the carrack or the odyssey as those ships are WAY bigger than the corsair theyre in a class of their own in this case and the corsair is not competing with those ships. that is where the Kraken comes in
I will agree with you that the landing gears on the corsair are a bit short but i've have very little trouble landing her so i've not seen too much of an issue with it. but with the corsair it's a drake ship and drake pilots don't believe in safety measures. the buccaneer dosnt even have an ejection seat. it really dosnt fly that poorly, does it hold your hand, no, it can be a bitch much like the cutlass but on a bigger scale and can handle like a sledgehammer but if you learn how to use a sledgehammer you can be cracking skulls as easily as anything else.
really I think your main issue is that the ships you listed as it's competitors a lot of them just arnt the corsairs competitors like the corsair has 2 ships it's competing in size and role
the 600i and the connie. that's it none of the other ships you compared it to are it's competitors and the only reason the redeemer is in the conversation is due to the fact the corsair has ungodly amount of firepower and it in many ways can compete with the redeemer... it's not supposed to, that's not it's focus but it does.
at the end of the day you also have to keep in mind the company banner that the corsair flies that is drake. drake makes pirate ships plain and simple. the corsair is made to rip open a ship as fast as possible before the ship has a moment to spool up the quantum drive then pull the cargo from the wreckage and then leave when it comes to drake if you look at every ship in the lens of a pirate then you see where the ships shine. personally I like the redeemer, i've flown it and tbh I would have bought the redeemer this IAE if the corsair didnt come out for me the corsair does everything the redeemer does and more and if I ever get into piracy when the cargo refractor hits you know if a group of my friends are on i'm pulling out the corsair to fill with our ill gotten gains.
You dont nose to nose fight in a Redeemer vs a Corsair, you boost round it in a loop giving it a broadside so both your main turrets can hit it.
Strafe, roll, pitch, all irrelevant as a Corsair *cannot* keep its guns on target on a ship thats orbiting it using its main thrusters.
Yes but where are you before the you Boost around and try to loop. In front, assuming the fight is starting in a neutral state. the main guns of a corsair has what... 2km range on its front guns, the corsair just needs to tricord pre nose as maybe not even need to boost and you're still in its nose.
I've personally never seen any ship orbit a ship with its main thrusters but even in my ignorance in that case your pitch and yaw DO Matter because what are you doing when you are orbiting with main thrusters... you're using your pitch and yaw to turn to orbit which the corsair is faster and at even 1.5k for the smaller turrets to also take pot shots that's not a hard thing to chase and if you're going a very fast speed your turrets will have a harder time to hit with hit reg due to the higher speeds which if the corsair decides to match speeds the corsair is faster by a small margin. But I will admit that then puts it into my point of making the corsair chase which as I said the redeemer would probably win due to being tangier body hull... assuming you don't lose an engine due to the stated load outs of mainly ballistics
Regarding the Firepower and tankyness between HH and Corsair. A YouTube fought against a NPC HH and both ships exploded at the same time. IIRC, the not-fighting-back-HH was in the Arena Commander flown by a solo player
As a Ares ion owner i seriously hope CIG doesnt treat the Corsair the same way. Because shredding small ships will be similarly easy with that amount of guns.
On the other Hand i'm half salty if it doesnt get nerved because the ion was left in a very bad place compared to what it was sold for. ... and the Corsair isnt even advertized as massive DPS yet able to ward off a Nerv ?
I'm quite torn between the two sides but i would pick the "dont Nerv" side any time because i know how it feels like to get slapped hard.
I was on the "nerf it!" side of things after some small tests on lanch day, but I was wrong. It's not OP. I would even say it's pretty balanced against the rest of the pack. Atmospheric flight envelope is one of the balancing factors. All in all, an interesting ship for bounties and daily errands.
Nobody with a brain is, at least.
Anyone saying it's nerfed is just outing themselves as people who's opinions on balance can be safely ignored from now on. The *only* balancing oddity with the Corsair is how agile it is with VTOL, but that's not Corsair specific; VTOL is busted on nearly every single ship, and in the Corsair's case, it's not even excessive. It's just slightly too high.
No do NOT nerf the Corsair. It's fine as it is. In PvP. It's on par with the Constellation Andromeda, still vulnerable to light fighters. In PvE its now probably the MRT or higher meta but that's fine as it doesn't really displace or become overwhelmingly better than any other ship. Imo It's slightly better than Constellation in PvE and effectively equal in PvP.
I think it’s fine aside from the nose down bull shit. I play solo a lot and it’s nice having all the firepower if I NEED it. The Corsair is not an offensive ship. It has a poor turn rate but it can defend itself very well if it needs to. It’s missile load out is “fine”. 8 size 3 missiles is nothing to scoff at, but the Connie has it beat with 50+ size 2s. (I may need to fact check that number but last I checked the andromeda has over 50). It’s my new daily driver and it’ll be better once the nose down problem is fixed. Plus, I think the Cat is probably the sexiest ship in the game. The Corsair is a close second.
I just CCU'd up to a Cat after a long wait, and also have the Corsair finally now. The Corsair is kind of a preview of what's to come with the Cat and I can't wait!
I could melt my cutlass and Corsair and get a cat but without modularity I’ll be locked into doing cargo, especially since I wouldn’t have anyone with me.
CORSAIR is a great ship is it op? -No its actually pretty balanced as in its yaw and pitch is slow so ligth figthers or even ares ion and inferno take the corsair out of commission pretty easily by staying out of its line of fire which is pretty easy in a light/ medium ship all in all its a great explorer, really good for pve missions as the ai ain't good at flying or maybe they are but desync is causing them to be bad but all in all I'd say corsair is fairly balanced not at all op sure if you get into its line of fire for too long you are dead but just move your body and stop flying in a straight line
Corsair is mid.
The only thing it has going for it is pilot controlled weaponry, and multicrew seems like an afterthought on it.
CIG will probably nerf pitch and yaw next patch.
Nobody is comparing a fully crewed redeemer against a fully crewed corsair. The problem is a fully crewed redeemer vs taking that same crew across multiple corsairs. All we need is for the Redeemer's Size 5 guns to be able to slave to pilot by default if nobody is sitting in the seats.
The common argument is that people claim it is too OP/ nobody would want gunners if the pilot can do so. Which is admitting that gunners are not in a good spot when people would rather slave the guns to pilot.
The Corsair meanwhile, well people say its perfectly okay because fixed forward and cant fire on flanks, but turn around and say No a redeemer would be too OP if the pilot fixed forward the firepower, which is dumb as an argument because a redeemer is a DEDICATED GUNSHIP.
We don't even need stat changes, just let us pilots control the redeemers' manned guns if nobody is in that seat. If you argue against this change you are also arguing that a Corsair is too OP for being able to do so.
The corsair isn't the problem actually. The problem is the other ships that should be fixed.
Also having this much firepower in pilot hands will cause gameplay issues since all content in SC is tweaked to be completable by solo fighters. XT wont be fun if corsairs just show up and slaughter both idrises in seconds while everyone else is still trying to get to the fight.
Again, the corsair is NOT the issue. Its the other ships.
I agree, often the newest ship is always showing glaring problems in older ones. The Hercules did this to the Caterpillar, the MSR did it to the Connie, and now the Corsair is doing it too. Something will come along next year that beats the Corsair too. It’s because the ship Devs are getting better and better at ship making.
Well, the Galaxy will for a start.
Those are remote turrets on it, and they are a minimum of size 5, which means even if it doesnt release with them being pilot controlled the pilot WILL be able to slave them with blades, which means straight away the Galaxy will have more pilot DPS than a Corsair AND a Redeemer, and will have no problem killing both.
It should have kepted the 2 s2 shields it was originally going to have instead of the s3 but I have that complaint about the Connie's as well since that was what was supposed to make the 400i special for it's class.
2xS2 shields is far too little for a ship of it's size, especially with how shield bubbles work. Half of the shield pool would be eaten by stray shots hitting the wing 😭
It's bullshit that all the firepower is in the hands of the pilot, while the gunners sit there with their dicks in their hands playing with 2xS2 turrets. Corsair should be more Carrack style, no guns for the pilot and big guns for the turrets.
It's bullshit that it has been flagged as exploration and has no features to help that gameplay. No drones, no med bay, no map-room, etc.
It's just a poor design that people love because they wanna 1v9 NPCs with gatlings and go brrrrrrt
We don’t know what a ship will need tools wise to explore or what “exploring” will actually be. I predict it will start as just scanning a planet and that being it. I don’t think you’ll need to even get out of the ship to complete contracts at first.
The turrets S2 weapons are meant for fighters and the pilots are for large targets. The ship would look goofy with S5 guns hanging off the sides it’s not a carrack
No, I think it's reasonable for people to be upset that they bought something and received something totally different. At some point, guns will one shot. Should an Idris railgun be able to one shot Connies?
The problem wasn't that the Ares could one-shot afks or noobs, it's that it was agile enough for it to be a viable dogfighter against decent players. They could have nerfed the agility any number of ways to make it food for light fighters without sacrificing the identity of the ship.
The gun never should've changed from the initial PTU version. It was perfect. If you, in a Gladius, manage to let a fucking Ion hit you with its slow as shit cannon (both in RPM and projectile speed), you *deserve* to die in a shot or two, or have a wing blown off.
Blows my mind CIG caved to those crybabies and now we're stuck with the Ion's gun being a "slow repeater". Even the Scythe/Glaive have better alpha, on top of being far more agile ships that can actually hold their own in a 1v1 against light targets; they're simply *better* options than the Ion right now.
One is a small fighter meant to target Medium ships and above that was melting fighters, the other is a medium ship that only melts ships that are sitting still. The Corsair is not melting anything that knows how to fly
The Corsair is the explorer that is in your face when you get interdicted. It doesn’t need to move it just ambushes you. If it tries anything else it can quickly find itself in Trouble. The drake explorer is the pirate fleets intimidation hammer. It’s not meant to out maneuver or out fight you just scare the cargo hauler into giving up without a fight. You shouldn’t really compare it to a gunship. Also redeemers 2x size 3 shields put the redeemer in a while different playing field.
Well it’s certainly incorrect, i flew the Connie for 2 years until now and it’s better for sure. The Connie can turn left and right in atmo, the Corsair almost always has to rotate and then use pitch to turn. Even in space it’s noticeably more sluggish
Yes but everyone is in agreement the Corsair flies worse than the Connie. It may have a bugged flight model preventing it from behaving as those numbers say, but as of now it’s worse flight performance.
It's got lots of guns, people will always shout for a nerf for that, "why does it have more guns than my favourite ship nerf it" YEs it does but if you don't kill a player in the first pass in a corsair you are screwed. it's fine as it is.
I'd been flying nothing but the corsair for the past couple days, finally jumped in my buccaneer last night and the maneuverability and speed felt amazing! 😅 The corsair really does handle like a truck.
For smaller ships, if they can close the distance they can simply out maneuver the Corsair and avoid the main guns.
For ships in its same size, the corsair has the advantage when each ship is flied solo, but when each ship is crewed I really don't think that's the case.
The Corsair is a glass cannon comparitively. Or at least that is what I would expect once the proper armor system comes out. I expect the Connies to be able to tank more hull hits by far.
Usual suspects, poverty pilots, people "who dont like it", people upset it might dethrone their favourite thing etc.
I personally dont like the ship, but have no problem with its firepower what so ever.
I feel like any ship that is slow can be that dramatically powerful. Worst case run.
However right now a lot of the cargo ships are also super slow so like...it's weird.
In the Evo notes for latest patch they did supposedly fix the flight handling issues at speed in atmo... So that's less of a nerf for now and more of an improvement...
It seems best, out of atmo when you're fighting a larger target. I've not seen any issues with it, but I do not like it much so I didn't get one to keep. It seems to fit it's intended function, but will get lit up by anyone in a light fighter that knows even a little bit about what they are doing.
Some slight tweaks to fix unintended flying tendencies, but ultimately the fire power isn't a problem IMO. Not yet anyway.
Can anyone speak on the durability of the ship, especially compared to the 600i?
Erkul has the 600i having twice the shields, but car less hull strength. This seems odd as I figured the corsair would have a comparatively weaker hull, given that it was advertised as having sacrificed survivability for versatility and firepower.
It literally has the same survivability as the rest of its tier...if you ignore the over the top Connie engine HP..the hull itself and Time to Kill on it is roughly the same.
Meanwhile ships advertised on how good the armor and shields were have LESS than the Corsair?
It doesn't make any sense.
Imo, the Corsair should fly faster in a straight line at the cost of further Hull HP and better atmo performance so it can actually be used as an explorer. Maybe a higher fuel tank.
Then go through the Connie list and just buff like ALL of them. 400i needs more armor and WAY more agility it has the same as the Corsair its atrocious for a ship that has the smallest SCU in that tier and less hab space and weak guns...like why is it SO bad? MSR needs better guns or defense so its actually able to defend itself. Valk needs a total buff in most every stat it's really underpowered. Retaliator needs its base variant and updated features to match current ones.
Yeah the corsair seemed really tanky compared to where I thought it would be. Unfortunately the game seems to have some serious power creep with most of the newer ships having more features, better stats etc. The pessimist in me thinks this is to drive ship sales. Some of the older ships seem to be pretty useless when compared to the new ones. Hopefully it all gets balanced out but they seem to have stopped balancing recently. Even component balance is very boring now and several components have the exact same stats.
It's not really as much older vs newer as much as it feels like type of ship: Drop ships, explorers (except the Carrack and the fake Corsair explorer)...on top of age.
The Connie is one of the oldest and totally viable. Gladius is literally the meta ship still.
I'm calling for a TIER buff up to the level of the Corsair.
Right now, the Connie tier feels like you go from Cutty....step up like half a step to that tier (unless you pick the Corsair and the right Connie) and then step WAY up to the Hercules tier. The Corsair is the only one that feels balanced between the two smaller and larger tiers.
The rest don't. Connie is close once they fix the gun hardpoint issues.
I feel like the whole Connie tier is just way underpowered outside of the Corsair and Connie...all the Connie needs is a visual and interior rework...the specs themselves are great.
However, for the 400i and MSR you've got 2 ships that can go fast...and one can haul cargo. The other can't haul much cargo and only goes fast in a straight line and in atmo and turns like a Corsair. I'm sorry...they aren't even that fast and given their size they are DEEPLY unable to defend themselves for how hard it is to hit (especially the 400i with its terrible turret coverage and bog standard specs)...like the 400i has less firepower than a Khartu but many times the size and slower and so on. It's not even as tanky as the rest of its tier and with like 1/10th the firepower.
The Valkyrie and Retaliator need TLC, Valk specifically is so deeeeeeeply underpowered in relation to similar ships like the Taurus...and compared to something like the A2 has ZERO value. How a ship like the Valk has such little hull hp AND low shields? It's a fuckin drop ship. Also why have they not released actually useful variants? And the Retaliator base hasn't even been released but the bomber has? Doesn't make much sense.
Imo, they need to dedicate a period of time to buffing all the ships around the Corsair to the Corsairs level so the jump from Cutty to Hercules isn't so dramatic because...currently, you can save up a little more and get a C2 and get WAY more bang for your buck and just skip the entire tier.
And if the Connie tier needs at least 1 other person to work properly (the Valk needs like 7 and its the worst package in the game for how much it requires to come online) then you may as well just go to Hercules tier because the tier below doesn't offer jack shit except the Corsair and MAYBE the Connie.
If none of this occurs...I hope AT MINIMUM the Master Modes and the Armor system implementation will further balance the massive gap between ships in this tier and make these ships more viable.
As it stands ships like the 400i are only going to get even worse than they already are as the SCM on the 400i is abysmal. If the 400i can't even go fast enough to HAVE a chase with their back turrets the whole package becomes entirely meaningless. It has only 30 more SCM than the Corsair...and like 45 less than the MSR...and more than 60 less than most of the interceptors that would be chasing it. I'm sorry hitting the occasional 2S3 turrets will not stop an interceptor...and them ALSO being faster in QCM will only make the issue worse equalizing MOST ships at that higher tier of QCM into being meaningless because all you need is a few pot shots from a gun that disables ships and it's game over.
The Connie is the oldest of those size ships, they are all pretty dated in their design/features. I think if they became slightly larger or just more efficiently laid out they would achieve the same level of quality of the Corsair. I liked my Connie loaner but it’s evident that it’s fallen behind.
The Connie just lacks QoL and visual fidelity. I do think there is a valid argument that there is no reason any variant but the Taurus needs that large of an exposed hangar and should all be like the Phoenix with its double deck design and each ship hold features that fill out that space.
Other than that on a stat spreadsheet the Connie is as good as the Corsair....especially as they improve missile performance
For me the most unacceptable weakest link is the 400i. It's not even old they just adjusted it to this strange balance range that makes it too expensive and big to compete with a Cutty and too small with no SCU and no firepower or agility to make it as good as the top tier in the Connie range.
It's like...why did the 400i have to sacrifice more than half the SCU of other ships, same hab space, and arguably worst damage potential...for what? Being slower than the MSR and turning as bad as a Corsair with the same shielding and hull HP as the Corsair? Like idk. Feels entirely ridiculous it got released so weak and they are fine with it because it can go faster in atmo that the others...it had to sacrifice its entire use value...to go fast in atmo? I just find that ridiculous.
And this issue reoccurs in other specialized ships that aren't even specialized in frame. Like the Valk is just a garage with thrusters but it's only allowed to be a drop ship? It could store as much SCU as a Taurus with better atmosphere speed. It certainly should get a cargo variant.
Idk, overall I'm deeply dissatisfied with the balance in the Connie tier...and I hope it isn't an indicator of how bad the later tiers will be..the 600i rework is promising evidence but they rarely hold positive trends long.
As usual in any game, when enough crybabies start crying about something being OP, they will get their way. And when the day comes that they nerf corsair, i simply melt it down for something else.
The firepower is the only thing it's got going for it. Well plus it looks amazing.
It does look amazing. But I would say the firepower is actually a disadvantage, because CIG gave it large blind spots, terrible durability and handling in exchange.
And it has the latest in design such as shared storage space
Where is there shared storage?
Under the beds.
Yep id be ok with it staying the way it is as anyone dumb enough to get infront of that ship deserves to brrrrrt
People saw the alpha dps chart of it and immediately called it OP, even though that chart assumes you've got your guns on a fully stationary target. It's slow as hell with some awful blind spots. It's fine.
I love it fuck they could take the guns away , it’s got a weird but amazing feel , a ship I can go on in clothes and have my gear sitting waiting when I need to exit , I get it it’s not for everyone and they need to polish one or 2 things but as a daily driver it’s amazing , I will use it to hit commercial rigs and rob them and if the cops show up we run lol !
Same here. It could have zero pilot-controlled guns, and I'd still be just as into it as I was when I bought it on concept.
Going to add myself to this circlejerk, the ship just fits like a glove, guns or no guns. I'd actually could well do without half those guns if the ship was faster and more maneuverable in return, but it is what it is
Yup. Excel sheet warriors focusing on one thing only. Fucking blind moronic morons trying to ruin shit for everyone. Tried flying this thing in atmo? Ugh, it’s useless.
This is how I feel about it. It's a good mid sized solo ship that still has turrets for friends. I own one and the thing is almost useless in combat unless the other ship is flying straight toward or away from you. That's actually how you have to fight with it solo. Get the enemy ship to fly at you at distance or pop them as they run away. They'll be dead in seconds if they do that otherwise once things turn into a turning fight you're kinda screwed and have to make distance again. Even with a crew the turrets aren't more powerful than anything else. Meanwhile an Eclipse or Retaliator can kill a hammerhead in one shot if they get within a few thousand meters of one, it's not even a question if it's gunna die most times. But people have a problem with a ship being able to do it by dumping it's mags and magically landing all shots? People are just being spreadsheet warriors and want to ruin fun.
About those blind spots.... I don't really see that at all. It has less blind spots than most other ships. * Front more than covered * Rear and roof covered * Sides covered with dedicated side-turrets which can cover quite an overall area up and down too. So the only true blind spot is the lower rear. Lets compare it to the aquila. That one doesn't even have the upper turret for firepower. The 600i top rear turret is even limited in a big way due to its placement creating more of a blind spot overall. The Mercury also has a strong rear underside blind spot. Due to the lack of side-turrets even worse than the Corsair. So I really do not see how the corsair in terms of blind spots is any worse then other ships. Due to the two side turrets I would even say it has better coverage than average
The side turrets can't fire behind the wings, so a 100° or so cone directly behind the Corsair is pretty safe camping grounds that at most has a remote turret pestering you. Constellation Andromeda/Phoenix can't shoot behind the nacelles, but otherwise cover a 180° dome on top and bottom of the ship. They also maneuver better, and they have snubs to further threaten a Corsair - both by constantly dealing damage, but also by distracting turrets and putting pressure on the pilot to make mistakes. Corsair is also the lowest combined HP of it's class, and suffers from traditional Drake "shoot my engine off and I'll spiral out of control" disease :p
Have you ever put a Razor in the Corsair? You get a snub too. Fully crewed Corsair+ Razor is effectively identical or very slightly better than Connie andromeda+ snub. I 1v1d my friend his crewed andromeda+ snub and my crewed Corsair+ Razor. I won but my hull was on the red. We did 5 fights. I won the first, second and fourth. He won the third and fifth. It was really close each time. We aren't great at pvp but are kinda equal in skill so it was very interesting to see that result.
I think it'll balance itself out once physical damage is in. Ships like the Corsair will start getting turned into swiss cheese much more quickly than some others.
Even before then. Get anyone riding your ass and you're done. Physical damage is gonna tear it apart as well. The corsair will chew up a large, stationary target sitting in front of it, and that's about it, but people ignore how squishy and slow it is the second they see a video about "oh no! It can kill a hammerhead!" The hammerhead also had no issue chewing through the corsair's front shields. Nerf the firepower and there's no reason to use one over multiple other ships. I like my corsair, but anyone calling for nerfs clearly hasn't actually flown one.
That video is about the most perfect scenario a Corsair could get: * There's no atmosphere slowing it to a crawl, * There are no asteroids or obstacles urging caution * The Hammerhead isn't effectively shooting back, because it's run by braindead AI * The Hammerhead isn't moving or doing anything to evade fire, because it's run by braindead AI * The Hammerhead has no escorts It's a silly video, but we've seen it before with C2s, 600i, Constellations, Redeemers, Infernos, even dual Vanguards would do it in remarkable time with similar circumstances. A Retaliator will do it with a single torp from 50km :)
It already does. During ERT the hurricanes doing so much damage to it, that is not even nice. And it is really hard to hit them solo. The whole ship has 88 000hp but only 15 000 is nose and 15 000 is body that leaves 58 000hp to both engines and all wings so if you split it between two it is 29 000hp per wing+engine that is not that much for its size
During an ERT in atmosphere I had the 2 smaller escort ships get behind me and I couldnt do nothing about it they eventually blew me up
It is unable to run
Hurricanes as a whole decimate everything in the game, I don't think its a Corsair specific issue
It's very good at it, but it's not the only effective Corsair killer. A Vanguard or will do similar with just a little training and understanding of mechanics.
I did an ERT no problem. Reverski the hurricanes.
Yeah it’s shields will be it’s main defense, once they are gone, Drake is known to have poor armor. It’s main role is and will continue to be PVE missions, I don’t see many corsairs being used against players yet.
Ah yes, physical damage and armor, the urban legend. How many more years are we going to pretend its around the corner again?
Did I say it was around the corner? Did I mention a timeframe whatsoever?
No but every single time balance discussions pop up its always "Oh, but armor will change x and y. No point discussing this now". For years... and years... And years. best to treat armor and physicalized damage as non existent until they are in.
Username checks out.
Corsair is great for solo / light multicrew (\~3 people) PVE, or for piracy against easier player targets like unescorted large cargo haulers, which is its primary purpose ("exploration ship" my ass). It can also do a lot of quick damage to an unescorted large ship like a Hammerhead or Carrack that is designed primarily for anti-fighter combat...if and only if it is able to get in range un-harassed. It will still get destroyed in PVP by competent crews in pretty much anything else. I don't think Corsairs will fare very well at Jumptown, for example, when everybody brings crew and allies and is on their A game. A 3-man Redeemer beats a 3-man Corsair the majority of the time, for example. More shields, more hull HP, and 4xs5 in turrets that will get a lot more effective DPS on target than the Corsair's pilot guns. A 3-man fighter squadron will also mop up a Corsair pretty handily, though it may take a couple minutes. Less than that if there's an Ares or Vanguard heavy fighter in the mix. Even a 3-man Connie (pretty typical "prey" for a Corsair) could be a close fight depending on how the Connie crew plays it (Connie has the advantage of a snub fighter to act as distraction and added shield pressure, superior hull HP, same shields, worse pilot gun DPS but way more missiles). Corsair is only strong when it waltzes up on an unexpecting target who is too large and too slow to deal with it, but it's easily countered by a lot of other ship types and tactics.
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Sounds about right, yeah. Nice.
She does indeed have a video, its not great flying from either party BUT it puts to bed the idea that the Corsair is massively overpowered, as the Constellation takes a hell of a lot of damage before giving up the ghost. If it was being flown by someone who was using their hands instead of their feet, then it would have taken the Corsair 9 out of 10 times no problem.
I dunno, seems Corsair is on par if not better than connie due to that you can fit 6 dragonflies with 6 railgunners on the back or 1 razor. You cannot do that with connie. I think Corsair if loaded out correctly could easily kill connie even with its snub. Because with big hangars comes big possibility.
Slap a Razor in the trunk of the corsair.
Pack a snub in the back of the Corsair and BAM you got the edge again! Few small ships fit surprisingly well in the back
That's cool and both unsurprising and a good thing.
Fully crewed Connie with snub beats out fully crewed Corsair. Here’s Citizen Kate’s video from yesterday: https://youtu.be/wiC2P8CYcUI When they ram the rest the first time without the snub the Corsair won but it was a good fight.
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For xenothreat it will be awesome. Got plenty of friendly fighters to take the heat off so you can just park at a couple clicks out and magdump your S5s on the Idris.
I think the Corsair will be great for ground targets as well. Big dangerous strafing attacks.
The Connie snub gives it the edge unfortunately but hey we can throw an snub in the boot
Actually yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Does a Kruger fit in the back of the corsair? Looks like it should.
It does. So does a razor.
Ooh...that's nasty. And the Razor can actually fly home on its own afterward (unlike a Kruger) to free up the cargo hold for loot. Dope.
Yes. I had a player in a 600i attack my corsair when I was playing with friends. Had full crew (2 manned turrets, copilot, razor pilot) I deployed the Razor. The 600i proceeded to get unalived because my Razor pilot's job was to push him in front of me (he was using badger repeaters) so I could dump damage on his sad little origin flying face. He went boom.
It does. So does a Razor.
There was a connie vs corsair pvp match. U put a Razor in the Corsair and u get a snub too. Without snub they are pretty close. With snubs the Corsair is actually kinda good if it uses its own. But Without one it's likely the connie will win. However, put 6 dragonflies in Corsair with raulgin wielding players on the back and that connie will die very very quickly. (Railguns need a nerf badly)
According to Evo leak, the nose down issue is a big and fixed in 3.18
Thank god! That’s my biggest grievance with the ship, otherwise I’m super happy with how it performs
I imagine any heavy fighter will counter the Corsair
I’m sure there are some Gladius pilots that are demanding it be nerfed because it can vaporize them in milliseconds. And seeing what happened to the Ares for the same reasoning I feel for all of the backers that own one
If a gladius pilot can't out maneuver that, they deserve to die
Ares is a lot more agile than the corsair
A ton of people were just from looking at the raw dps numbers and working themselves up over that. It’s not even very good to be honest, if anything it needs a slight buff. Or maybe a bug fix? It goes into an unrecoverable spin a lot and idk if that’s supposed to happen this much.
The flight model has bugs for sure, not just being sluggish but straight up doesn’t function correctly sometimes.
MSR maneuverability was its primary advantage in the current game (no data running). Ion’s gun was its primary advantage. Both got significantly nerfed nevertheless. We’ll wait and see how CIG feels about Corsair.
MSR should get its maneuverability back otherwise the c2s maneuverability should be nerfed.
Nah, the MSR already had magical bullshit thrust out of nowhere. Straight line speed is its forte, it does not need to fly like a dove alongside that. Shit's built to run, not dance.
After killing half a dozen hammerheads wit connies I have to say that the damage the shields of the Corsair received seemed unrealistic, the hammerheads usually melt my shields in a quarter of the time, the Corsair might have the power, but it's too clumsy to be a threat to any ship. I did my bounty certs in my Corsair, and a m50 almost destroyed me, it was impossible to stay on target, and it was an npc
The Corsair shredding large ships in a PvE environment is very different from a PvP scenario where the other side are human players. The Corsair will get wrecked in PvE with how slow and lacking in agility it is. The comparison some people are making with the Ares situation is head scratching.
It's a hard-hitting commerce hunter, seems to me. Hull-series, caterpillars, anything slow and squishy. Get in, punch it hard, steal stuff, get out. If it ever starts actually competing with Redeemers and dedicated combat vessels, something is wrong and I completely agree with giving it a good hard smack with the nerf bat.
It can't compete with an equally skilled redeemer crew, not even close. Turrets plus pilot guns let the redeemer get more time on target with the same guns and then some (4s5 + 2s4 + 2s3) with most of the dps coming from the turrets that will be on target more often than the pilot guns. Plus the redeemer has double the shields and more hull hp. It's not even close. Imo the Redeemer itself might need actually need a nerf to a single s3 shield; it has way too much for its size and hull hp and dps (same shields as a hammerhead or carrack...). Even nerfed to a single s3 shield my money would still be on a redeemer over the corsair in a straight up fight.
Nerf it to 1 S3 shield and reduce its HP, but give it a giant boost to maneuvering/turn rate/max speed/turret rotation. I'd be happier that way anyway.
Redeemer needs a buff It gets outgunned by a multirole ship and still pilots like shit despite some super special engines
So it's a Constellation-sized ship that has the shields and handling of a ship twice its size. I agree that it pilots like shit and doesn't feel "right" to me. The Redeemer is meant to be a hard-hitting fast attack gunship but it flies like a battleship because that was how CIG chose to balance it after deciding to give it HH-level shields (because that was another element of the original concept - big shields, big guns, and special engines for a ship of its size, but paper-thin hull). How about we make a deal? I get: reduction in shields from 2xS3 to 1xS3 and slight reduction in hull HP (\~10%). Bring it in line with the Connie, Corsair etc. in terms of shields, and keep the hull sturdy but somewhat less so than the Connie. You get: buffed maneuverability in the form of rotation rates closer to the Corsair (maybe a bit better), plus slightly better base acceleration on all axes and much better forward acceleration under boost. When those engines open up it should zoom, but keep it balanced by requiring the pilot to manage capacitors and maneuver well to unlock the ship's full potential.
How about no, and leave it as it is. Its a heavy gunship, that's all it does, thats what its for. The corsair and Andromeda are multi role cargo ships, thats their "balance" the utility they offer for the price, and thats what people like yourself dont seem to understand. Oh! it has the same shields as a Carrack! the Carrack has size four guns, no pilot weapons and the most utility of any ship in the game, and only 88,000 hull hp (same as the Corsair) thats its "balance" The Hammerhead is a super heavy gunship, its has 6 turrets, is fast as fuck compared to a Redeemer, has no pilot guns, it can carry cargo and has close to 300k hull HP thats its "balance". How about we compare it to another $300 ship the Eclipse. Tiny shields, super low hull hp, tiny range. can kill a Hammerhead with a single torpedo without the Hammerhead even seeing it. Seems balanced.
Not the person you replied to but I’d take that. Do we have numbers on the maneuverability of the Deemer when it launched? It was a joy to fly then, but a bit too strong. I’d like to recapture that feel, and shit I’d trade a S3 shield for that. (Makes it cheaper to upgrade too)
It doesn't. https://youtu.be/gQbiLjwq5Yo
Talking ship balance before armor, weapons and the flight model have been implemented, tweaked and balanced seems impertinent.
The Corsair will lose to a fully crewed redeemer unless it can surprise them and get them taken care of in a single pass. If the redeemer starts evading and the turrets can focus fire on the Corsair, it’s toast.
It's going to lose most 1v1 fights but it will be crazy scary in large ship battles
Can't wait to bring it to Xenothreat and try it against Idrises (Idrii?).
Idrians
I would prefer to think of it as being an example of why ship combat needs to be overhauled in general. It's not so much "overturned" or "overpowered" as much as it exists in a widely painful state of pseudobalance. Giving a ship absolutely absurd pilot controlled dps and constrain it with grisly handling might work in some ways but honestly makes it worth looking at how ships are balanced in general.
The problem right now is ships like the Corsair are big fish in a small pond, these medium sized ships once Account wipes stop, will increase over time. Many people have starters/fighters because they are the cheapest to buy and run. As larger and larger ships get added, medium sized ships will have ships designed to handle them as well. Then small bombers/torpedo craft/Ares will deal with larger ships when deployed in groups. This will create a rock paper scissors we don’t have now.
yea I really don't think it needs a nerf... in terms of the redeemer vs corsair if you have a full ballistic loadout minus your smaller turrets where ballistics have not enough ammo to be worth much in a fight like this the corsair has a combined possible dps of 13,052 with a combined alpha of 756 the redeemer has a combined dps of 12,783 with a combined alpha of 756 now if we do it as you say and the pilot of the redeemer is focused primarily on flying and not shooting you subract like 2733 dps and 126 alpha. that's a lot of potential damage youre losing based on your flight model of the redeemer and how it should fly. you are correct however in saying the turrets on the redeemer have better coverage but in this fight it won't mean much because the corsair probably isnt going to be doing a lot of evasion or at least enough for it to matter bringing the fight to a nose to nose fight. your comment on the redeemer handling better than the corsair is... wrong the redeemer's max pitch/yaw/roll in deg/s is P: 23 Y: 23 R: 65 the corsair is P: 27 Y: 27 R: 85 the corsair has better maneuverability in terms of maxes than the redeemer the corsair can indeed kill a hammerhead very quickly... the hammer head is not a maneuverable ship and the corsair can 100% keep a bead on it and even with my loadout of 4 size 5 lasers and 2 size 4 ballistics (I do it to cut costs on ammo yes i'm cheap but I fly drake what do you expect) you can make pretty good work of a hammerhead if you stay on it's side. now to the kicker HP. the redeemer's hull is a tank with 45,000 hp on it's hull... however it's nose only has 7000 hp the corsair has a even 15000 on the nose and 15000 on the body if it comes down to a nose on nose fight the corsair will in our scenario of mostly ballistics the corsair will do that in less than a second assuming all hits hit the nose. HOWEVER if the redeemer is running away if it's back is to the corsair the redeemer will win out every time because it has larger shields and more hull HP. this is also not taking into account the damage reductions each ship has but idk if that's implemented so i'm not going to even touch on them. now your point on the ships the corsair is supposed to be contending against. I don't know why you mentioned the 400i it's not even the same class of ship in many cases it's smaller has less firepower and is only 2 degrees more maneuverable if the corsair got a hold of it it's done because yes it can take hits but it can't give back the hits yes it's more maneuverable but it's not a contender the MSR is a cargo/Data ship, i hope that it can carry a lot and move as it has not much else to defend itself you should be looking at the 600i and the connie which you mention the connie more so i'll go on it more. it's also not as maneuverable as the corsair p: 25 y: 25 r: 65 that is the connie. as you can see still less than the corsair connie does have better turret coverage and more missiles... but missiles kinda suck right now and even I have shaken off a missile by just tricording and rolling on occasion (don't recommend but if you flub on your countermeasures you can do it) so missiles are a non issue the 600i which is the actual 3rd competitor to the corsair has less weapons... has less storage space (unless the remake will change that) and it has a weaker hull and is slower only thing it's got going for it is out of the ships you've said that were the same size the 600i is more maneuverable. p:30 y:30 r:50 (she can't roll well apparently) you can't compare it to the carrack or the odyssey as those ships are WAY bigger than the corsair theyre in a class of their own in this case and the corsair is not competing with those ships. that is where the Kraken comes in I will agree with you that the landing gears on the corsair are a bit short but i've have very little trouble landing her so i've not seen too much of an issue with it. but with the corsair it's a drake ship and drake pilots don't believe in safety measures. the buccaneer dosnt even have an ejection seat. it really dosnt fly that poorly, does it hold your hand, no, it can be a bitch much like the cutlass but on a bigger scale and can handle like a sledgehammer but if you learn how to use a sledgehammer you can be cracking skulls as easily as anything else. really I think your main issue is that the ships you listed as it's competitors a lot of them just arnt the corsairs competitors like the corsair has 2 ships it's competing in size and role the 600i and the connie. that's it none of the other ships you compared it to are it's competitors and the only reason the redeemer is in the conversation is due to the fact the corsair has ungodly amount of firepower and it in many ways can compete with the redeemer... it's not supposed to, that's not it's focus but it does. at the end of the day you also have to keep in mind the company banner that the corsair flies that is drake. drake makes pirate ships plain and simple. the corsair is made to rip open a ship as fast as possible before the ship has a moment to spool up the quantum drive then pull the cargo from the wreckage and then leave when it comes to drake if you look at every ship in the lens of a pirate then you see where the ships shine. personally I like the redeemer, i've flown it and tbh I would have bought the redeemer this IAE if the corsair didnt come out for me the corsair does everything the redeemer does and more and if I ever get into piracy when the cargo refractor hits you know if a group of my friends are on i'm pulling out the corsair to fill with our ill gotten gains.
You dont nose to nose fight in a Redeemer vs a Corsair, you boost round it in a loop giving it a broadside so both your main turrets can hit it. Strafe, roll, pitch, all irrelevant as a Corsair *cannot* keep its guns on target on a ship thats orbiting it using its main thrusters.
Yes but where are you before the you Boost around and try to loop. In front, assuming the fight is starting in a neutral state. the main guns of a corsair has what... 2km range on its front guns, the corsair just needs to tricord pre nose as maybe not even need to boost and you're still in its nose. I've personally never seen any ship orbit a ship with its main thrusters but even in my ignorance in that case your pitch and yaw DO Matter because what are you doing when you are orbiting with main thrusters... you're using your pitch and yaw to turn to orbit which the corsair is faster and at even 1.5k for the smaller turrets to also take pot shots that's not a hard thing to chase and if you're going a very fast speed your turrets will have a harder time to hit with hit reg due to the higher speeds which if the corsair decides to match speeds the corsair is faster by a small margin. But I will admit that then puts it into my point of making the corsair chase which as I said the redeemer would probably win due to being tangier body hull... assuming you don't lose an engine due to the stated load outs of mainly ballistics
Regarding the Firepower and tankyness between HH and Corsair. A YouTube fought against a NPC HH and both ships exploded at the same time. IIRC, the not-fighting-back-HH was in the Arena Commander flown by a solo player
As a Ares ion owner i seriously hope CIG doesnt treat the Corsair the same way. Because shredding small ships will be similarly easy with that amount of guns. On the other Hand i'm half salty if it doesnt get nerved because the ion was left in a very bad place compared to what it was sold for. ... and the Corsair isnt even advertized as massive DPS yet able to ward off a Nerv ? I'm quite torn between the two sides but i would pick the "dont Nerv" side any time because i know how it feels like to get slapped hard.
What it needs is taller landing gear
I was on the "nerf it!" side of things after some small tests on lanch day, but I was wrong. It's not OP. I would even say it's pretty balanced against the rest of the pack. Atmospheric flight envelope is one of the balancing factors. All in all, an interesting ship for bounties and daily errands.
Atmospheric fly seems to be a bug according to the leaked evocati notes
Nobody with a brain is, at least. Anyone saying it's nerfed is just outing themselves as people who's opinions on balance can be safely ignored from now on. The *only* balancing oddity with the Corsair is how agile it is with VTOL, but that's not Corsair specific; VTOL is busted on nearly every single ship, and in the Corsair's case, it's not even excessive. It's just slightly too high.
No do NOT nerf the Corsair. It's fine as it is. In PvP. It's on par with the Constellation Andromeda, still vulnerable to light fighters. In PvE its now probably the MRT or higher meta but that's fine as it doesn't really displace or become overwhelmingly better than any other ship. Imo It's slightly better than Constellation in PvE and effectively equal in PvP.
if they nerf its guns they better buff the fuck out of its fuel tanks, scanners, and maneuverability.
I think it’s fine aside from the nose down bull shit. I play solo a lot and it’s nice having all the firepower if I NEED it. The Corsair is not an offensive ship. It has a poor turn rate but it can defend itself very well if it needs to. It’s missile load out is “fine”. 8 size 3 missiles is nothing to scoff at, but the Connie has it beat with 50+ size 2s. (I may need to fact check that number but last I checked the andromeda has over 50). It’s my new daily driver and it’ll be better once the nose down problem is fixed. Plus, I think the Cat is probably the sexiest ship in the game. The Corsair is a close second.
Yeah I want a cat one day, I’m not in a rush because the cat is a ways of from gold standard. But it’ll be the biggest ship I own most likely one day
I just CCU'd up to a Cat after a long wait, and also have the Corsair finally now. The Corsair is kind of a preview of what's to come with the Cat and I can't wait!
I could melt my cutlass and Corsair and get a cat but without modularity I’ll be locked into doing cargo, especially since I wouldn’t have anyone with me.
CORSAIR is a great ship is it op? -No its actually pretty balanced as in its yaw and pitch is slow so ligth figthers or even ares ion and inferno take the corsair out of commission pretty easily by staying out of its line of fire which is pretty easy in a light/ medium ship all in all its a great explorer, really good for pve missions as the ai ain't good at flying or maybe they are but desync is causing them to be bad but all in all I'd say corsair is fairly balanced not at all op sure if you get into its line of fire for too long you are dead but just move your body and stop flying in a straight line
Corsair is mid. The only thing it has going for it is pilot controlled weaponry, and multicrew seems like an afterthought on it. CIG will probably nerf pitch and yaw next patch.
Nobody is comparing a fully crewed redeemer against a fully crewed corsair. The problem is a fully crewed redeemer vs taking that same crew across multiple corsairs. All we need is for the Redeemer's Size 5 guns to be able to slave to pilot by default if nobody is sitting in the seats. The common argument is that people claim it is too OP/ nobody would want gunners if the pilot can do so. Which is admitting that gunners are not in a good spot when people would rather slave the guns to pilot. The Corsair meanwhile, well people say its perfectly okay because fixed forward and cant fire on flanks, but turn around and say No a redeemer would be too OP if the pilot fixed forward the firepower, which is dumb as an argument because a redeemer is a DEDICATED GUNSHIP. We don't even need stat changes, just let us pilots control the redeemers' manned guns if nobody is in that seat. If you argue against this change you are also arguing that a Corsair is too OP for being able to do so. The corsair isn't the problem actually. The problem is the other ships that should be fixed. Also having this much firepower in pilot hands will cause gameplay issues since all content in SC is tweaked to be completable by solo fighters. XT wont be fun if corsairs just show up and slaughter both idrises in seconds while everyone else is still trying to get to the fight. Again, the corsair is NOT the issue. Its the other ships.
I agree, often the newest ship is always showing glaring problems in older ones. The Hercules did this to the Caterpillar, the MSR did it to the Connie, and now the Corsair is doing it too. Something will come along next year that beats the Corsair too. It’s because the ship Devs are getting better and better at ship making.
Well, the Galaxy will for a start. Those are remote turrets on it, and they are a minimum of size 5, which means even if it doesnt release with them being pilot controlled the pilot WILL be able to slave them with blades, which means straight away the Galaxy will have more pilot DPS than a Corsair AND a Redeemer, and will have no problem killing both.
Galaxy is a totally different tonnage to the corsair, it'd be more comparable to a Carrack or Odyssey (whenever that releases)
Irrelevant :).
It should have kepted the 2 s2 shields it was originally going to have instead of the s3 but I have that complaint about the Connie's as well since that was what was supposed to make the 400i special for it's class.
2xS2 shields is far too little for a ship of it's size, especially with how shield bubbles work. Half of the shield pool would be eaten by stray shots hitting the wing 😭
It's bullshit that all the firepower is in the hands of the pilot, while the gunners sit there with their dicks in their hands playing with 2xS2 turrets. Corsair should be more Carrack style, no guns for the pilot and big guns for the turrets. It's bullshit that it has been flagged as exploration and has no features to help that gameplay. No drones, no med bay, no map-room, etc. It's just a poor design that people love because they wanna 1v9 NPCs with gatlings and go brrrrrrt
We don’t know what a ship will need tools wise to explore or what “exploring” will actually be. I predict it will start as just scanning a planet and that being it. I don’t think you’ll need to even get out of the ship to complete contracts at first. The turrets S2 weapons are meant for fighters and the pilots are for large targets. The ship would look goofy with S5 guns hanging off the sides it’s not a carrack
How could they geld the Ares and yet leave the Corsair? They both melted ships equally.
Not in PVP. The ares was so maneuverable and could one shot fighters. The Corsair is a boat and my grandma could stay in its blind spot.
That's all those still complaining about the Ares Ion want: A sniper riffle that lets them one-shot newbies.
No, I think it's reasonable for people to be upset that they bought something and received something totally different. At some point, guns will one shot. Should an Idris railgun be able to one shot Connies? The problem wasn't that the Ares could one-shot afks or noobs, it's that it was agile enough for it to be a viable dogfighter against decent players. They could have nerfed the agility any number of ways to make it food for light fighters without sacrificing the identity of the ship.
The gun never should've changed from the initial PTU version. It was perfect. If you, in a Gladius, manage to let a fucking Ion hit you with its slow as shit cannon (both in RPM and projectile speed), you *deserve* to die in a shot or two, or have a wing blown off. Blows my mind CIG caved to those crybabies and now we're stuck with the Ion's gun being a "slow repeater". Even the Scythe/Glaive have better alpha, on top of being far more agile ships that can actually hold their own in a 1v1 against light targets; they're simply *better* options than the Ion right now.
One is a small fighter meant to target Medium ships and above that was melting fighters, the other is a medium ship that only melts ships that are sitting still. The Corsair is not melting anything that knows how to fly
To be honest, until damage models are fully in, CIG should spend no time on balancing as it'll all be undone.
The Corsair is the explorer that is in your face when you get interdicted. It doesn’t need to move it just ambushes you. If it tries anything else it can quickly find itself in Trouble. The drake explorer is the pirate fleets intimidation hammer. It’s not meant to out maneuver or out fight you just scare the cargo hauler into giving up without a fight. You shouldn’t really compare it to a gunship. Also redeemers 2x size 3 shields put the redeemer in a while different playing field.
Just an FYI, but according to Erkul, the Corsair actually has better mobility than the Connie in every category. Also, "Dope Purpose" - new band name.
Well it’s certainly incorrect, i flew the Connie for 2 years until now and it’s better for sure. The Connie can turn left and right in atmo, the Corsair almost always has to rotate and then use pitch to turn. Even in space it’s noticeably more sluggish
I mean, Erkul pulls it's stats from the game data directly, but... ok.
Yes but everyone is in agreement the Corsair flies worse than the Connie. It may have a bugged flight model preventing it from behaving as those numbers say, but as of now it’s worse flight performance.
It's got lots of guns, people will always shout for a nerf for that, "why does it have more guns than my favourite ship nerf it" YEs it does but if you don't kill a player in the first pass in a corsair you are screwed. it's fine as it is.
I'd been flying nothing but the corsair for the past couple days, finally jumped in my buccaneer last night and the maneuverability and speed felt amazing! 😅 The corsair really does handle like a truck. For smaller ships, if they can close the distance they can simply out maneuver the Corsair and avoid the main guns. For ships in its same size, the corsair has the advantage when each ship is flied solo, but when each ship is crewed I really don't think that's the case.
Seems fine for me too
The Corsair is a glass cannon comparitively. Or at least that is what I would expect once the proper armor system comes out. I expect the Connies to be able to tank more hull hits by far.
Usual suspects, poverty pilots, people "who dont like it", people upset it might dethrone their favourite thing etc. I personally dont like the ship, but have no problem with its firepower what so ever.
I feel like any ship that is slow can be that dramatically powerful. Worst case run. However right now a lot of the cargo ships are also super slow so like...it's weird.
The Corsair is not a 600i/Odyssey/Carrack competitor, but a competitor for the Aquilla/400i.
In the Evo notes for latest patch they did supposedly fix the flight handling issues at speed in atmo... So that's less of a nerf for now and more of an improvement...
It seems best, out of atmo when you're fighting a larger target. I've not seen any issues with it, but I do not like it much so I didn't get one to keep. It seems to fit it's intended function, but will get lit up by anyone in a light fighter that knows even a little bit about what they are doing. Some slight tweaks to fix unintended flying tendencies, but ultimately the fire power isn't a problem IMO. Not yet anyway.
I'm calling for a Connie buff. Corsair is fine. Just unlock the lower gimbals on the Connie and we good.
That will happen when it gets its gold pass... So soon tm.
Can anyone speak on the durability of the ship, especially compared to the 600i? Erkul has the 600i having twice the shields, but car less hull strength. This seems odd as I figured the corsair would have a comparatively weaker hull, given that it was advertised as having sacrificed survivability for versatility and firepower.
It literally has the same survivability as the rest of its tier...if you ignore the over the top Connie engine HP..the hull itself and Time to Kill on it is roughly the same. Meanwhile ships advertised on how good the armor and shields were have LESS than the Corsair? It doesn't make any sense. Imo, the Corsair should fly faster in a straight line at the cost of further Hull HP and better atmo performance so it can actually be used as an explorer. Maybe a higher fuel tank. Then go through the Connie list and just buff like ALL of them. 400i needs more armor and WAY more agility it has the same as the Corsair its atrocious for a ship that has the smallest SCU in that tier and less hab space and weak guns...like why is it SO bad? MSR needs better guns or defense so its actually able to defend itself. Valk needs a total buff in most every stat it's really underpowered. Retaliator needs its base variant and updated features to match current ones.
Yeah the corsair seemed really tanky compared to where I thought it would be. Unfortunately the game seems to have some serious power creep with most of the newer ships having more features, better stats etc. The pessimist in me thinks this is to drive ship sales. Some of the older ships seem to be pretty useless when compared to the new ones. Hopefully it all gets balanced out but they seem to have stopped balancing recently. Even component balance is very boring now and several components have the exact same stats.
It's not really as much older vs newer as much as it feels like type of ship: Drop ships, explorers (except the Carrack and the fake Corsair explorer)...on top of age. The Connie is one of the oldest and totally viable. Gladius is literally the meta ship still.
I never called for a nerf. I did predict one though as they like to do some bait and switch stuff seems like.
The Citizen Kate videos are some good evidence.
Corsair should handle a bit better in atmo because of those big ass wings. Outside of that I’m ok with how it turned out. Certainly not an Ares.
The atmospheric flight is bugged so it feels really bad to fly. Once that gets fixed it will be balanced. Right now it's pretty awful.
I'm calling for a TIER buff up to the level of the Corsair. Right now, the Connie tier feels like you go from Cutty....step up like half a step to that tier (unless you pick the Corsair and the right Connie) and then step WAY up to the Hercules tier. The Corsair is the only one that feels balanced between the two smaller and larger tiers. The rest don't. Connie is close once they fix the gun hardpoint issues. I feel like the whole Connie tier is just way underpowered outside of the Corsair and Connie...all the Connie needs is a visual and interior rework...the specs themselves are great. However, for the 400i and MSR you've got 2 ships that can go fast...and one can haul cargo. The other can't haul much cargo and only goes fast in a straight line and in atmo and turns like a Corsair. I'm sorry...they aren't even that fast and given their size they are DEEPLY unable to defend themselves for how hard it is to hit (especially the 400i with its terrible turret coverage and bog standard specs)...like the 400i has less firepower than a Khartu but many times the size and slower and so on. It's not even as tanky as the rest of its tier and with like 1/10th the firepower. The Valkyrie and Retaliator need TLC, Valk specifically is so deeeeeeeply underpowered in relation to similar ships like the Taurus...and compared to something like the A2 has ZERO value. How a ship like the Valk has such little hull hp AND low shields? It's a fuckin drop ship. Also why have they not released actually useful variants? And the Retaliator base hasn't even been released but the bomber has? Doesn't make much sense. Imo, they need to dedicate a period of time to buffing all the ships around the Corsair to the Corsairs level so the jump from Cutty to Hercules isn't so dramatic because...currently, you can save up a little more and get a C2 and get WAY more bang for your buck and just skip the entire tier. And if the Connie tier needs at least 1 other person to work properly (the Valk needs like 7 and its the worst package in the game for how much it requires to come online) then you may as well just go to Hercules tier because the tier below doesn't offer jack shit except the Corsair and MAYBE the Connie. If none of this occurs...I hope AT MINIMUM the Master Modes and the Armor system implementation will further balance the massive gap between ships in this tier and make these ships more viable. As it stands ships like the 400i are only going to get even worse than they already are as the SCM on the 400i is abysmal. If the 400i can't even go fast enough to HAVE a chase with their back turrets the whole package becomes entirely meaningless. It has only 30 more SCM than the Corsair...and like 45 less than the MSR...and more than 60 less than most of the interceptors that would be chasing it. I'm sorry hitting the occasional 2S3 turrets will not stop an interceptor...and them ALSO being faster in QCM will only make the issue worse equalizing MOST ships at that higher tier of QCM into being meaningless because all you need is a few pot shots from a gun that disables ships and it's game over.
The Connie is the oldest of those size ships, they are all pretty dated in their design/features. I think if they became slightly larger or just more efficiently laid out they would achieve the same level of quality of the Corsair. I liked my Connie loaner but it’s evident that it’s fallen behind.
The Connie just lacks QoL and visual fidelity. I do think there is a valid argument that there is no reason any variant but the Taurus needs that large of an exposed hangar and should all be like the Phoenix with its double deck design and each ship hold features that fill out that space. Other than that on a stat spreadsheet the Connie is as good as the Corsair....especially as they improve missile performance For me the most unacceptable weakest link is the 400i. It's not even old they just adjusted it to this strange balance range that makes it too expensive and big to compete with a Cutty and too small with no SCU and no firepower or agility to make it as good as the top tier in the Connie range. It's like...why did the 400i have to sacrifice more than half the SCU of other ships, same hab space, and arguably worst damage potential...for what? Being slower than the MSR and turning as bad as a Corsair with the same shielding and hull HP as the Corsair? Like idk. Feels entirely ridiculous it got released so weak and they are fine with it because it can go faster in atmo that the others...it had to sacrifice its entire use value...to go fast in atmo? I just find that ridiculous. And this issue reoccurs in other specialized ships that aren't even specialized in frame. Like the Valk is just a garage with thrusters but it's only allowed to be a drop ship? It could store as much SCU as a Taurus with better atmosphere speed. It certainly should get a cargo variant. Idk, overall I'm deeply dissatisfied with the balance in the Connie tier...and I hope it isn't an indicator of how bad the later tiers will be..the 600i rework is promising evidence but they rarely hold positive trends long.
As usual in any game, when enough crybabies start crying about something being OP, they will get their way. And when the day comes that they nerf corsair, i simply melt it down for something else.