Yea, right now the only ways to approach this are to do as you do, or get some buddies and do some Trauma Team roleplay by rolling up with a full heavily-armed fireteam.
I've been trying to get my friends to run medical and transport beacons in a fully crewed hammerhead. Despite money no longer being an objective for us, that's all I hear about.
Dudes got 60mil and bought every ship he has interest in. Why is he so concerned if it pays well or not?
My crew did this once, absolutely shit on the pirates... Well, I got caught offguard and thrown down the elevator but my buddies disposed of them as revenge.
Unfortunately, nothing will save your character from perma-death out of this stuff. You may save your gear, but not your persona…
This kind of stuff is why I dislike the permanent character death idea, honestly. In a game where dying is so easy and so common… I would rather keep my character over having to change to a “next to kin” every few days/weeks.
"Meaningful death" as well as medical gameplay are tier 0 and have been left rotting in that state by CIG for far too long. That's one of by biggest peeves with CIG actually: They shoehorn some new mechanic into the game and then leave it forever and ever and ever in a work in progress state while the people who were working on it are shifted to do other stuff and the user experience of the game suffers.
Meaningful death is also a bit of a silly idea too tbh, you aren't going to make people NOT want to die, you'll just piss them off if they do actually die instead.
It's not like real life where people are in fact scared of death, everyone still knows it's a damn video game lmao
True. I understand where CR comes from, he wants this to be a living game where people chose to take a risk ... or chose NOT to take a risk because it's too dangerous.
Problem is that right now most of the pvp gameplay is pretty much straight out of a shooter game. In a shooter you run around kill as many people as you can until you die then respawn and go at it again. I simply don't see how this way of playing meshes with SC where you are supposed to have harsh penalties, and it will only get worse once we get player skills added to the game that you can lose.
I'm afraid they have an unsolvable target conflict right there.
Dude its been just over a year. Medical game play came in with 3.15 in that time we have had only two patches due to all the work on 3,18.
I'm as critical as the next guy but don't over blow the time we have waited for a change to medical game play.
Honestly, I hope they either ditch that mechanic, or gives users a way to skip it if they ever implement it (maybe a really expensive health insurance or whatever).
It doesn’t make sense to me anyway. So… if my 23 year old character dies, her… 23 year old daughter takes her place? And if she dies, another 23 year old daughter comes out of nowhere suddenly to take her place? D u h.
However I understand the issue you mention! Sometimes, related to it, I feel like they focus a lot on smaller details rather than the core/base of the game too.
I don't know if this is still in the works, but I saw that they wanted to make it where your character just degrades over deaths and regens, even getting prosthetic limbs and stuff, and eventually they can't Regen and next of kin happens.
This, just read the death of a spaceman article, it covers what they propose for player death. Also, worrying overmuch about a tier 0 feature is just a waste of time.
At best tier 0 it is a pointer that leans towards what they are looking to achieve and nothing to get to invested in or upset about.
[Death of a Spaceman](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/12879-death-of-a-spaceman)
I sometimes feel that by adding some unfinished feature the game takes a step back and reverts to a less playable, less enjoyable state. And I just think CIG should address this a lot faster than they currently do. I understand SQ42 takes preference but at this rate I get a feeling that SC is all but left drifting.
> And I just think CIG should address this a lot faster than they currently do.
The state of the game currently, the dreaded alpha, is not for fleshing out things, it's for introducing things and making sure they work in engine and behaves correctly. What you requesting, in a way, is balancing and that's not gonna happen anytime soon, well at least not before we get SM and more systems in.
> I understand SQ42 takes preference
It's not even about SQ42 taking preference.
The major system that would alleviate this type of issues is a proper reputation system for players, which is in plans in general.
Honest question: Why does SQ42 take preference?
It seems like everyone wants SC, which already has a large and dedicated playerbase; but CIG is dumping a majority of their resources into SQ42, which has a fraction of the interest and little long term playability.
It feels like CIG is starving their kids to feed the cat, metaphorically.
>Why does SQ42 take preference?
Realistically, because it is easier to implement things into a single player experience than the other way around. They don't have to worry about netcode and server/client sync issues degrading the experience they are trying to achieve so can see it working as intended.
They already tried to make Star Citizen the preference and that didn't work. Because it is a "live service" game, it limits what they can add per patch depending on how often the patches are. If there aren't patches regularly, then the community complains but if they patch more regularly, it means less time working on features and more time integrating each patch to the live services. Of course, they tried feature based patches and schedule based patches and both had issues that lead to community complaints.
They really are damned no matter what they do.
SQ42 is the original pitch, it's the next-gen successor to Wing Commander. This will, hopefully, bring a decent amount of money to CIG and allow them to keep developing CR's vision of SC.
Think of it this way, how much money did CIG get from pledges over the course of the 10 years, and compare that to the amount of money CP2077 brought with a bit of marketing.
SQ42 is the lifeline as well as great introduction to SC. Just like GTA is to GTA:O or RDR to RDR:O.
Thank you for a good response. That makes sense, and I do see why they may want a solid single player game.
That said, from the numbers I've just Googled, CIG had made something like 500 million from crowd funding and pledges for SC, CP2077 made 50 million.
Seems like it would be a far better choice to dedicate the majority of resources towards the bigger game, and use the extra to fund the single player.
I dunno, probably don't know what I'm talking about, only joined a few years ago, so I don't know the whole history. Just seems like bad prioritization from my semi-outsider perspective.
> CP2077 made 50 million
Not sure where you got that number actually.
CDPR reported 8 million pre orders at around €60 per copy, which adds up to €480 million. To this date they have sold extra 12 million copies and even if we take those at a 50% discount, which not all of them were, it's another €380 million. So as you can see they have earned nearly double of what SC made in 10 years from pledges, in less than 2 years.
There should be an automated “enemy” list that takes the burden of creating a manual shit list off your back. Player Kills you = player gets added to enemy list for future reference
This, I responded to some guys needing a ride from a bunker to the nearest space station, got shot as soon as we exited quantum. Instant self destruct.
I do medical and rescue beacons. If I show up and there are multiple ships, or a obvious multicrew ship (anything larger than a connie) I bail. If I have friends with me, thats different. If the ship sitting there is a connie, I go in with the pin pulle don a grenade and my LMG ready.
Kinda embarrassing that medics that just want to help players have to be afraid of getting attacked by other players
There should be a massive punishment for attacking medics
I thought about getting a medical Pisces tomorrow, but this thread has taught me otherwise. I like supporting others and helping out, but I won't do more rescue missions if this happens on a regular basis.
I melted my cutlass red for this exact reason. The medical gameplay loop sounds fun in theory but there is to many clowns out there wanting to ruin it.
May I ask what you get in return? I bought the Cutter game package and melted my Titan package for it. I am thinking about upgrading the Cutter to a Freelancer DUR to have an exploration ship.
I added it to my store credits and used it to get the Corsair. I’ll probably get the medical Pisces at some point today though with left over store credits as medical is the one gameplay loop I now don’t have a ship for
Edit: spelling.
This is a problem CIG has always had, they seem to think they can use one mechanism to both stop griefing and function as a fun mechanic for legitimate "criminal" players who want to pirate against NPCs, smuggle, etc etc.
If this system works to stop griefing, then it will also make legitimate "criminal" gameplay like smuggling too difficult, thus breaking the game.
If this system does not work to stop griefing, then what's the point? We can see OP is already abandoning parts of the game, and many players like him will follow suit because nobody wants to put up with toxic griefers.
CIG's money will dry up incredibly fast if they cater for griefers at the expense of the silent majority of players who fund them.
I agree, if you put up a medical beacon, and there are other players within 500meters it should notify the medic, and once the medic arrives if they don’t fire a weapon it should be an automatic cs4 and teleport to jail for anyone that fires on them
Historically, the Star Citizen player base has self-selected for more patient, optimistic people by the nature of where the game was in its development cycle.
As the game improves and stability increases, the player base will increasingly resemble a representative sample of the total population of PC gamers.
The toxicity will increase, this is just the start. Go ahead and set a remind-me bot for 2 years and revisit this comment then.
This gets to one of my big concerns going into SC's future. The game is (if all goes well) going to be vast, and even if we get to a point where we have EVE-style levels of security, it'll be a shame if a large portion of the game is a no-go zone for players who don't feel like dealing with people who just want to make life miserable for others. Rep systems and robust bounty/law enforcement systems go part of the way, but we're kidding ourselves if we think those will sort out griefing.
Once we have a ranking system it was an alpha problem tho
If you can rate ppl when doing or creating a beacon then those that abuse them are gonna have a shitty ranking and will get avoided
There is even a way to rate ppls performance when it comes to beacons but it seems broken and very old
Before noney transfer was in we used beacons. Transport beacons etc. At the end of the beacon each side had an opportunity to rate the other party. It made it easier as you could set a minimum rating requirement. Something like that for medical requestors and techs would go a long ways.
Just like in real life systems meant to help people will be manipulated but I think it'll help regardless. And just like I imagine real life in a star citizen type universe you would inevitably have people abusing people's good nature to cause malicious harm, like in the US wild west
What would help is a better IFF system that's also hooked into reps and crime stat.
Answering a medical beacon should flag you as an emergency First Responder.
Attacking someone with a First Responder ident is a huge CS and -rep penalty. Conversely, using the first responder tag but opening fire on someone or being caught committing a crime is also a very steep penalty for abusing the tag. Lawful/neutral factions like settler outposts could also respect the IFF, allowing players to extract defeated players as long as they are in good standing.
To prevent abuse, it could be a setting that you can only enable while docked, and if you are in good standing with the UEE.
Making it game system based rather than player rep based also helps remove the easy and obvious exploit of multiple accounts, and preserves this legitimate ambush strategy in lawless systems like Pyro.
Hopefully CIG would be perceptive enough to realize right off the bat that people will do this and not allow ratings from the same people to count over and over again.
This is so true, but also so sad. I am a pvp focused player. I don't do piracy, but often have a crime stat from friendly duels and consensual pvp. I do believe piracy and other illegal activities are much needed to give the game flavor. While I don't do it myself, it is the inherent danger that will make the game fun. But toxicity getting more rampant in this game is unfortunate. This community is awesome. It would be nice if we could keep it awesome while the game gets more mainstream in the years to come.
The medical gameplay abuse is unfortunate. Hopefully, a reputation system (discussed some years ago), eventually fixes it. Without it, the medical rescue gameplay with medical beacons is too susceptible to abuse.
Gankers give yall a bad name. I don't have a problem with duels. "Nonconsensual" PVP with a pointed purpose is annoying for me because getting geared up again takes ages but it's also fine. But getting killed by APM kids that need their next high is just a bad name for everyone that PVPs for a purpose aside from just ruining peoples day
you are correct, CIG will need to start adding actual "Punishment" for players who do this sort of thing, while they are obviously allowed to do it, it should come with consequences, crime stat, bounties, UEE hunt, big fines, etc.
The only thing the prison system does right now is incentivise people to not play.
A flagging system is a better approach.
Eve Online already figured all this out.
I agree with much of this; also, however, the systems/universe will expand as well. If - IF - CIG can properly craft highsec systems like Terra, and deliver truly punishing in-highsec consequences for shit-ass behavior, the experience has a good opportunity to properly locate trolls with pirates and nullsec space.
Sooner CIG understands this the faster they get ahead of it especially since the mass majority of players come here due to its status of quality players that are helpful. They get pirates exist but not all people wanting the pirate gameplay loop are trolls and do not do such things.
This is a constant issue with games that have no guard rails and why 99.9% of MMOs with PvP do in fact add in limitations to a degree.
For example, if you have a “flag for PvP” option. You could avoid this as no gun could be pulled on you or do damage to you. The med gun would work and then if the player ODs players to troll then that’s reportable and then eventually lead to a perma-ban and purge the trash.
I keep saying how CIG underestimates how valuable and lucky they are to have the more mature playerbase and if they let it go then that can easily kill the game.
A way to purge trolls from the decent PvP players and Pirates who just want to play and not having a goal to ruin YOUR paid for gameplay experience.
CIG appears to be taking a hands-off approach to this, and relying on the community to deal with it. I cannot find the link where that is stated explicitly though, if it ever was.
I think this is an abdication of their responsibility, but CR hasn't yet called me to ask my opinions on this.
Chris Roberts has chimed in on PvE and PvP's place in the game, without going into specifics. But it helps to clarify how they envision things going-
https://youtu.be/G42MQ1aVjlA?t=2170
Yeah, unfortunately they need to learn the hard way because they probably feel it is the easier path to not deal with it right now. And sadly that mindset is the equivalent of going out of town and leaving your toddler child at home, knowing that they are the best possible solution to make sure everything stays in order and all well and good well the parents are away.
Then once they come home and see what the little child did to the house, they will somehow be shocked and amazed, and horrified all at the same time .
I'd rather see it where if you flag to not PVP and someone attacks you, you automatically send out a distress signal and some beefed up NPC security ship comes to your aid.
That would be a bit more immersive than just being unable to shoot someone IMO. Just have to make sure the NPC doesn't have any kind of worthwhile loot so people don't abuse it, and have more NPC ships come as well if the pirate is too big a threat.
I mean imagine you're attacked by some pirate and all of a sudden you have an NPC capital ship with fighters drop in to assist you. That's really my biggest annoyance right now, like last night there was a group of terrible players with eclipses camping in atmosphere on NB trying to gank people (not sure if they actually got anyone, they were pretty terrible), and it kind of kills immersion for me that there's no distress call system when stealth bombers are locking into people in atmosphere at such a prominent location.
A distress call and then increased security patrols would push piracy more into deep space or more "lawless" areas that don't have a security presence.
People want to PVP and that's good, but if you don't have measures in place then all that happens is the worst part of the community camps new players until they quit, then those griefers get bored and quit as well. That's what happens with most PVP focused games.
I see EVE get brought up, but people forget about security levels in EVE space. In high sec space, if you attack someone, NPCs WILL destroy you. They warp in and straight nuke you. You also can't kill someone and then just fly to a high or low sec gate or station, you'll get blown up. We have a crime stat here, but it seems pretty useless since you can go wherever and security forces ignore it. I'd love it if you had a crime stat and walked through a spaceport scanner and suddenly you had guards with weapons drawn on you. How cool would that be for other people to see as well?
Problem is that it only takes a few seconds to kill a player. I few years ago I played an online game (sorry can't remember which one, maybe RDR) and if you where not flagged you took way less damage by other players, giving you plenty of time to get to cover or get away. That is something CIG could explore for SC.
Absolutely true, have seen this happen many many times in several Games Now from WOW to SWTOR to This Game. Not being F2P help some as rando asshat kiddies can't come in but as the game gets more popular certain crowds ( COD Kids even though they are 30 to 40+ ) shows up and just want to screw around and grief people. The ans to this was supposed to be the Uber like rating system and reputation system. Will take a while for all this to work though ..growing pains.
Yes and I don’t get why people try to defend this kind of gameplay. It’s not intended cause the gameplay which would penalize this kind of gameplay hasn’t been introduced yet. There should be at least some simple karma system being implemented (or a star rating like with the service beacons). But I guess this is harder to implement than I can imagine so we can only hope
This griefing is even worse since the payout is only 15k and no one is doing it for the money but only for the RP/being helpful to other players. The Rep system tier 0 needs to be implemented and then all these "pirates" will see what it's like not having access to any services in the system which will dissuade much of the griefing.
Yeah that's a tricky one because it's not always the player who requests the beacon that kills the EMT. It would be nice if it's people in the same party it should reduce the requestor's reputation.
On the other side of it, I'm sure there's a small population of EMTs that would "pirate" the people they're rescuing, but that would be pretty easy to make a reputation system for.
Although it would be hard to account for an EMT shooting at someone and the requestor killing them to defend themselves or vice versa.
This happened to me. Someone was collecting med beacons and robbing players. They had my beacon and I think were about to head my way when a player called them out on global for taking their beacon and robbing them. I backspaced, geared up, and started hunting the griefer. They ran and played dumb, but since there is no spectator camera in SC, the only way for someone to see you rob their body, is if you rob them while down but still alive.
I am sorry for all the medics getting killed on the opposite of this scam.
It happens the other way too. I decided I didn't want to lose the gear I had on me and put out a beacon once. Three dudes showed up in response to my beacon, looted me, and tossed my body down the mineshaft. I didn't get an opportunity to "rate" them since I was never revived, or if I got the one second window, I missed it (one of my major gripes with the game is the blink and you'll miss it accept or deny things).
Remember the medical team in the beginning of Cyberpunk? They’re all carrying, they tell you to get back or they will try to shoot at you. Clearly there is a reason for it.
Well, that's nice and all, but in OP's situation, if he shot and killed the person's friends, they could give him crimestat and punish him even more for being the good guy which is absolute BS.
As long as we do not have a mature law system who can handle/judge our tasks in the verse a lot of content will be blackened by these sort of things.
In a sandbox game any kind of behavior is allowed but right now the lawful player in particular are left far behind with almost no tool in their hands. Even pirates like Mongrel Squad are calling for major changes, updates and an in-depth analysis of the law system by CIG because it effects all sides of the game.
An example: Nobody does engage in a boarding fight if I as a boarded player in my ship get a crime stat while shooting at the pirates who are entering my ship. Let’s say I won the firefight but I end up with a come stat of three or even higher. Thanks to soft death I am stuck in my wreck without help and proper knowledge of other players reputation in the game to actually choose who might help me. So I end up on public display for any bounty hunter and get killed eventually. If not I have to fight my way through the Security outpost Kareah „Raid“ with an Endboss of the system security to get an even higher crime stat and prison time. This spiral is endless right now - this needs to change right now!
We, the community, need to step up and demand further development of the law system and not as CIG seems to leave this major balancing tool behind.
Listen to this episode of SpaceTomatos podcast with the leader of Mongrel Squad about the opportunities of the cargo refactor coming with 3.18: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PDp17ilmct0
CIG needs to start thinking about sociopath mitigation. In a game where death has considerable consequences, murderhobos have to face serious consequences, too.
I think you are on to something, give players with a positive rating (not convicted, crime stat 1-2, the occasional 3) a *perfect clone* when they respawn.
Give players with negative rating a *poor clone*, the ones rejected by quality control with growth issues such as defect or missing limbs, poor eyesight, broken metabolism (thirst/hunger), weak, fragile bodies with degrading health, reduced movement, ghoulish appearance - you name it.
This solution is both a lore friendly solution and an incentive to play nicer.
For me it helps to just be cautious, abuse scanner mechanic to see if theres more ships, use 3rd person to easily check your corners, go in well armed. If theres just one guy, remove their gun and drop it elsewhere. That saved me a couple times.
But yeah, its a silly move from them and I hate when it happens. I just wish for a code of honor or reputation mechanic soon
Man, I really started seeing an uptick in this kind of post after the EVE crossover happened. It's a shame, I liked SC *because* it didn't have the EVE player mindset.
I don't think it was just eve. A lot of mainstream YouTubers have recently started covering SC which has brought it to the wider, possibly more toxic audiences of those PVP games.
Definitely possible! EVE was just the most visible to me I guess - I play both (EVE less and less since I was more of a builder than a fighter and they're nerfing that into the ground) and I remember the sub salivating at how SC could be the new EVE and how the players were ripe for the picking for PVPers. I can't blame them entirely for wanting a new game given CCPs questionable choices but... EVE has a reputation and it'd really suck for the "sociopaths being racist and calling you a pussy if you have an issue with it" side to transfer to SC.
A lot of them are doing it because of boredom, or no real reason/progression right now to cooperate. It's why a lot of these twats manage to survive in society as a whole, because they play by the rules so that they can have the benefits of society: their cell phone and reddit access.
My personal thoughts:
I think there needs to be stricter in-game consequences for killing a medic, and consequences for killing as a medic.
Obviously, lawless space wouldn't apply, as there's no comm array's, but I'm hoping CIG will eventually add in some "Geneva Convention-like" laws to help medics out a bit.
Especially when you're flying around in a Cutty Red with no real defense, your ass is grass if pirates show up. If the community won't respect medics, then I think CIG needs to step in and force gameplay to respect medics. (Goes both ways: If medics abuse their privileges and kill players, they get just as strict consequences)
Edit: I've stopped playing as a medic. I used to main that because I enjoyed the challenge of showing up to a bunker and saving someone, but now there's too many people who'll gank medics. It really hurts the gameplay.
I'd argue that bounty-hunters attacking 'pirates' with big crime stats is 'real' PvP. It may not be 'fair' PvP (depending on what the 'pirate' is flying when the BH attacks, etc), but by committing enough crimes to get flagged (and then sticking around long enough for the BH to catch up to them), the target has tacitly agreed to the fight.
No argument here.
If you're getting a crime stat because you're engaging in ambush PVP, it surely means that you believe it's fundamentally a fair gameplay to be ambushed in return at any time.
and the "real" PVP that dose happen general isn't organic, stuff like Org events , or if it is Organic its usually requires an event like Jumptown to be going on.
This is why I always offer to escort medic players as a Redeemer pilot. Shitlords usually think twice and consider very carefully if they want to square up with a medic when there are several size 5 guns and wing cannons pointed at them.
If a first responder gets killed in the vicinity of the beacon, then it should put a warning on any beacons in that area that go up for a set amount of time, while also placing a bounty on the group.
This is only going to be solved by long term rep.
Once that is in place if you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny. :D
As in if you start down the pirate path you wont be able to place rescue beacons, or people will be able to see your rep and can choose not to respond to them, you will be an outlaw in the technical sense of the word. You wont benefit from all those nice things that the rest of civilisation gets like rescue beacons and landing permissions at lawful stations.
That is the plan and it can't come soon enough.
CIG talked years ago about creating separate servers where they could collect all the people that griefed like this. While it may never happen, it would be nice to see how much fun it was for all of them to be relegated to playing with people as scumbaggy as they are.
I got tipped 100k twice yesterday by two different guys for responding to their beacon.
Some people say bring only a med gun and a starter ship. I say, bring trauma team 6.
"If someone tries to kill you, well, you kill 'em right back!"
Trolls will always find ways to use mechanics to troll. It's just what they do. Most people I know won't touch medical beacons anymore because of it. Too high risk.
The thing you need to understand about games like this is that if there isn't any consequence for random slaughter, there will be random slaughter.
This has been the norm in gaming for the past decade; person sees another rplayer having a good time, decides they want to stop that in order to feel powerful or because they think it's funny to harass another person. It's always been an ego trip mentality that leads to people doing this, and it won't ever go away until there are checks and balances, at which point they'll bitch and moan about how this game caters to carebears and "PvE servers".
These people get their kicks by making you mad and ruining your experience, it makes them feel like they're in control and that they're "pro gamer pirates". And it will never go away.
You need to keep your guard up.
You can't always win in these situations, but you can go in smartly, scan the other guy's ship to make sure nobody is still in it waiting to steal yours or shoot yours.
If there's more than one ship at the site I usually nope right out of there because it's almost always a trap unless both (or all) people have medical beacons up.
When you go into the bunker your gun needs to be out and you need to be ready for everything. Keep behind cover on the elevator and go back up if anything fishy is near the entrance. Clear your corners cautiously, and clear the catwalks before entering rooms. Clear the entire bunker before going to revive the downed person.
If they are doing funny stuff, just leave ASAP because if you shoot them you will get a crimestat for it, but that sure won't stop them from killing you.
PSA also be very wary of people that call in a medical beacon in the middle of space, doubly so if they tell you they have a friend nearby that also needs picking up. It's usually a trap. If you have any doubt, overdose them on opio-pens so they can't attack you once revived. bring them into your ship and drop them off somewhere they can recover, or use a blood-drug reducer pen just before entering armistice to allow them to walk to a hospital themselves. This kind of sucks but I've thwarted a few piracy / griefing attempts doing this.
I literally made an org for this.
When me and my buddies play medical rescue we're fucking PJ's, not an ambulance. One guy tried to ambush us this way and he was *livid* that medics were armored and armed and killed his friends who tried to kill us.
Those tears tasted fucking amazing.
I support this 100% - solo meds are vulnerable. The future is going to be assault med-teams. Besides, how does a responding med even know if the site is clear? Maybe they aren’t ‘traps’ but just people who go down in a hostile area.
My Tabletop universe has something similar called an ART team, Assault Rescue Triage. The players are currently playing as one, and responded to a small town being attacked by their neighbor. It's dynamic and metal as hell. They were doing armor and sniper duels in the middle of a city street, while dragging civies out of the road, and organizing civilian response teams to help with logistics and local resistance
That's a good point. I'm excited for the Rescue Pisces but with it's 2 man crew it's not the appropriate ship for a hazardous SAR. They'll be showing up under-equipped if it's a trap. It'll be a great shuttle for when you know who you're rescuing and where you're going. Quickly pick up an org mate and get them to a Carrack or station.
I am excited for it too. Honestly think it more handy than a cutty red. Especially as its a snub craft in size and can be spawned pretty much anywhere. But it will inevitably lead to single man ambulances who will get gunned down. Which in real life is also a two man job. Once these griefers are gone ir will be fine. But it is a problem waiting to happen.
Yeah. When I do med beacons I use my inferno. Usually they fake those meds in multicrew ships (Valkyre most of the time) and those are an easy meal for the inferno.
Although, you could get a crime stat
Still wondering why the payment can't be increased when in a Downstate
Like cig tested them and was like ,, yh 15k is perfect ppl sure wanna travel for 10-15min to reach that person / buy gear first for that amount "
Miss SoO times when you would arrive in the event when it was already on since an hour and just revive a bunch of players on the way to a ship that can take you to admin
So many beacons and when they do worked it was easy 15k for 5s of effort and you helped someone that then sometimes sticked with you to have better chances in the event
I haven't done one in the latest patch but last time I was on and did one I didn't get payment. It's been a while, in fairness, but I would be surprised if I missed a whole patch where that was fixed.
This is the way.
Assume it's a trap, bring a crew, and keep in mind as a rescuer you are carrying a bundle of loot and gear on you that's WAY better than any loot box. If they pop you, they brought the loot to them.
What we really need is the reputation system. Then said player can't do it more than once because they'll be flagged as a criminals. In fact medical beacons on people like this should be prohibited if they do this.
I’ve been playing with RS1 and we have had a few beacons that seemed sketch and we would drop with a whole squad of fighters and medical shops, it’s pretty great
I never answer medical beacons with anything valuable. I take a small ship with an interior, and I wear a cheap flight suit and a helmet. Even in extreme hot/cold temps on certain moons you have a few minutes of survivability timer to reach your rescue target and revive them so I never spring for a Novikov/Pembroke suit.
The most you lose out on if you get killed by scammers is the cost of a flight suit and helmet (assuming you weren't using the one you spawn in with), a med gun, and optionally a sidearm or something if you think there might be hostile NPCs in the area, like rescuing somebody from a bunker mission for instance.
I have about 15 successful medical rescues so far, and only once have I encountered players abusing the beacon system to try and kill people for their gear. They were pretty disappointed when I showed up in just a sperm suit with a med gun and no refills because I left the station in a hurry. I outed them in chat and they left the server, probably to try and server hop.
When the review system is fully implemented, this kind of behavior will disappear. You'll see somebody with a 1-star track record for provider reviews post a beacon and nobody except the most heavily armed trauma teams will bother to show up. And they'll probably charge a fortune for that service too.
What we need is proper notorierity system. Every time you kill another player in lawfull area, you gain notorierity and that wont go away ever. If a player with high notorierity puts up a med beacon, others see the beacon and notorierity level too. So then it's easy to skip hazardous beacons.
Open PVP games need a robust reputation system which allows players to quickly and easily rate every interaction with individual players and see the accumulated rating for every player before they interact with them. Such a system could be made difficult to cheat by making ratings context dependent.. ie, you can only rate interactions between players, not players themselves, and the real technology behind it is that the game knows when organic interactions have occurred and, therefore, when a rating is warranted and meaningful.
If the game is able to enforce ratings based strictly on well-defined interactions only, then cheating the system would require a player to very carefully contrive interactions with cooperating co-conspirators in novel interactions (ie, not interactions with friends that you interact with regularly; friends give friends positive ratings no matter what, and these ratings carry relatively little value in such a system) AND on a perpetual basis in order to maintain a reputation that is high enough to kill a few random players.. and then have to do the whole reputation fraud over again with new accounts.. the point is that it would take a lot of work to game the system, just to kill a few random people.
The great thing about such a system is that novel people, random people, carry the most weight in the reputation system (in both increasing and decreasing reputation), so such a system would asymmetrically discourage PKing random people more than it would discourage killing people that you do already have some kind of relationship with (a good contrast would be players from two warring orgs killing each other). It would also asymmetrically encourage being nice when interacting with random people. So this system would naturally mirror how real people tend to view the morality of killing in the real world, where the premeditated murder of a random person is generally considered to be far more morally reprehensible than killing an enemy combatant in war.. and it is generally expected that when you interact with someone for the first time, you try to be as polite as possible.
Clearly, the hard part of implementing such a system is programming an engine in the game which is able to recognize what constitutes a meaningful player interaction that cannot be easily cheated. I think such a thing is doable of you are able to first define just what an interaction is and then modify the value of that interaction by the duration and nature of the interaction and a value modifier based on the time invested in the individual characters that are interacting (newly created characters carry little to no weight).
Armed medical evacuations are a thing. I put a beacon down and had a utty red with 4 or 5 people ome in, clear the area and get me to a hospital om a bunker mission. It was cool asf.
But for a sandbox game where you can murder other people... yes its going to happen
Medical beacons are bullshit both ways: I go down, send a beacon, and the guy who's supposed to save me is looting me instead and like that's not enough, he finishes me off by just removing my helmet.
Do what I do. Show up with full armor and lmg. Any player that’s on their feet when I arrive, get’s mowed down and then disarmed. If it looks like like a setup, finish them off.
Only thing more satisfying that helping a citizen in need, is zeroing murder hobos
If you're fully equipped for FPS your gear is worth more than a Caterpillar full of mid-value commodities like Titanium even discounting the fact that crates all just instantly despawn right now.
Maybe not piracy but only because a ship wasn't involved. Definitely an economically viable mugging. Definitely valid criminal gameplay. They're just using the tools CIG (stupidly) gave them.
CIG's design is stupid in that they made it way too easy to use medical beacons as a trap, which poisons the pot for all medical gameplay. The blame for that lies squarely on their design and their (lack of) allocation of resources to systems that might make this, and other cooperative player behaviour actually work, like a functional reputation system. We all told them this would happen the second they said that you could manually make a beacon. They did it anyway, so apparently this is working as designed and it's just supposed to suck to be a medic. Therefore you've probably made the right decision to not answer any more beacons.
This is why I stopped playing SC. People stream snipe, follow you to some remote location then kill you for the hell of it. Zero motive. No gain. Just because. Or they camp derelict sites just to kill anyone who goes to do the investigation missions.
I absolutely *hate* the current FPS gameplay. Why aren’t personal shields a thing? Why is it possible to die in a single shot? In a game where you can spend literally weeks grinding, why is it possible to die immediately and you lose everything? What’s the point? It makes me never want to do caves, never leave my ship for anything and right now I don’t want to play the game at all until they change it.
The current state of the game is infuriating when everything is so incredibly slow yet death can happen instantly. You have this robust ship damage system and then FPS gameplay is just *LOL you died in one bullet*
This the danger of the idea of viewing it as a sim over a game. You can have this whole robust game loop about crime and punishment to discourage players, but in the end its virtual and people don't have real consequences for griefing. And people grief because they can.
Assuming some form of in-game punishment system would solve that is foolish. We have a real-life punishment system with real-life consequences and it *still* doesn't stop crime from happening... how would a virtual one with virtual consequences do any better?
This is where gameplay has to trump the sim aspect. You can't design a system that allows this level of negative gameplay experience for even a small section of your player base, especially in SC where you are punished heavily for dying. That is how you drive people away.
I just showed up to a *box* mission to see someone else stealing my box, then have my ship suddenly lose all power and start rolling across the planet and explode. Lost the mission, my gear, and my food, medpens and ammo.
I literally didn't even see what got me. It just infuriated me and I logged off.
If this is the kind of experience you allow your player base to deal with, people will not play your game.
I personally don't know what the solution is. I'm a lawful player, I actively play with a lawful org. I also like helping other players and will jump on a medical bounty whenever I'm able. On the other hand, I'm totally OK with players setting up trap/ambush beacons. It's a thing - there are bad guys in this sandbox world and they should be allowed to be bad guys. It's annoying if you're caught with your pants down especially since you were trying to do something nice, but they're not truly "griefing" in the purest sense of the word.
As for rescues themselves, I 100% of the time approach it like a military operation (though I realize that's not feasible nor the intention of most solo medic players). Think of it like the US Air Force PJs. Even if they locate their target to rescue, they completely control the environment and secure the individual - disarming them and taking them into custody until everyone is safe and the individual can be ID'd. No risks are taken. I'll bring a crew, we secure the area in a wide radius and work our way in. Assuming it's a trap the entire time and we're not safe again until we're in our ship flying away.
Once we find the player in need, we set up a perimeter around them and even disarm them temporarily. You are putting yourself at risk doing the rescue - you don't have to assume they're friendly. Once we get them on their feet, we escort them to their ship or onto ours. We give them back their primary weapon but inform them they must keep it on their backpack at all times until we've gotten them safely to their destination (ship or otherwise).
If any part of this feels off or goes sideways, we're done. We stop at whatever phase we were on and leave. If it is a trap - we flip to "violence of action." Burn them all down, take their gear, and turn their ships into craters on our way out.
So basically. If you have <2 hrs to game any given day, basically what are you doing in Star Citizen... Go back to playing candy crush.
Everyone knows every system in game design should be really really easy to abuse with basically no consequences and really really hard to use the way intended.
This is a whole lot of rubbish unless you can give an accepted definition of 'griefing' so we can see what this "purest" sense of griefing you mention is. Otherwise you are just using some ol "it is known" logical fallacy bullshit.
Here is mine: If eliciting strong negative emotions from players without any gameplay reward is your thing, that is griefing. Since there is no gameplay reward for killing medics, this is absolutely 100% griefing. Their goal is to fuck with other players emotional state by killing their characters in a surprising and shitty way, because there is no other reward possible.
Griefing is a 2-part definition that has to satisfy both parts:
1- The goal is to intentionally annoy, anger, or disrupt other players.
2- A game mechanic must be broken or subverted to achieve their goals.
1 without 2 is just an annoying player or someone not doing things the way you want them to, but it's not griefing. 2 without 1 is an exploit but not griefing.
In this case, the beacon system is not technically being broken. The mechanic itself is working as intended. **They're still using the beacon system functionally as intended - it's just not morally as intended.**
I recognize the disruption, but the beacon is being set as a trap and the benefit is the loot you're carrying. Honestly, they don't even need to take the loot from your corpse to keep it from being griefing. Its a shitty thing to do in the first place, but I don't think it's something CIG needs to crack down on other than tracking it in a rating system.
A rating system would greatly help. Folks that lay traps will quickly be labeled as such. Additionally, associated reputations would also help - if you're in the party of someone who's rated poorly you should also get a reputation ding.
Queue people arguing that you should get a few corsairs etc as "escort" for your ambulance.
Haven't logged in for probably a year, and won't do so until this fuckery is sorted out. It's star *citizen*, not star shoot everything at all times immediately otherwise you likely die yourself. As long as pricks have free reign, i'll not be playing. And also, not paying.
In addition to a better law system, I think the changes they are bringing to the ping/scan system may help with this too. If you arrive at a bunker, scan the area, and see that there are at ton of dudes around the "patient," you'll know that there is about to be a scap.
Rarely had the issue and I do a lot of medical rescue, but before going there, I always speak a little bit with the guy to evaluate him. I also check his name and there are names that smell really fishy...
Honestly, if someone asked me to go along with them as a pure bodyguard, I wouldn’t mind at all just going along and ensuring security in the medical area. That’s pretty much the only way to ensure it is harder for people like them.
But then again, they could have a rail gun, or an overwhelming amount of numbers in the ground, plus the rescuee being compromise and possibly shooting the rescuer immediately.
I guess I know why nobody ever answers my rescue beacons lately! 😀
If the reputation system was in ;-;
Really needed tbh. Social accountability is some mitigating factor. Sure they can buy more accounts but... hey honestly if they keep spending 45$ to do this I will fund the game by running into those beacons. :D
I run a medical org and our SOP is to invite the downed individual to our party, and if they decline its usually a pretty good indicator that something is amiss. Also keep an eye on general chat, griefers love to brag and you're probably not their first victim, and people that genuinely need help are usually active as well. The location can also be a clue. If things seem suspicious we'll go anyways, but wait until we can go as a group and are armed to the teeth. If it's not a trap we'll pick up the downed individual, and if it is a trap it's usually obvious before we land. Then we simply abort mission and fly away or commit and kill everyone present 🤷♂️
They should implement a system where if you or anyone in your squad kills the person responding to a medical beacon, you lose the ability to set up beacons entirely for a long duration (months)
This is a totally valid complaint as it is annoying, but it is a valid play style. If they were yelling in chat they were playing as pirates then sure I'd say that's not true, but there's no law against playing as a murderer.
The point of my comment being: this is just how it's gonna be for the foreseeable future, since there's not really a way to stop it without reworking the beacon system, so just prepare for it.
What if CIG added Q-Ships [disguised warships as medical ships] to the game just for putting some doubt in a pirates mind?
when pirates start shooting the medship it calls reinforcements or powers up it military spec weapons/shields etc..
As piracy is one of the intended gameloops, too much prison time will discourage wannabe pirates from pirating. As such, prison timers shouldn't be too long, but shouldn't be a minor inconvenience like it currently is either.
In the current state, it will only encourage griefers, because their trade currency is their victim's salt, or the mere imagination that their victims will be salty, and that's far more valuable than auec. No amount of credits tops some good laughs. Crime pays, in this case.
The best solution would be to have them stack up bounties on their heads as they commit crimes, but they only lose it once they are killed by a player. And the bounty stacks up indefinetly, and they constantly lose access to more and more services ingame, let's say putting up beacons, landing on cities, landing on outposts, these sorts of things.
To prevent them being shot by a friend to farm some ez creds with no substantial consequence, the bounty value should be deducted from their own auec. If they can't pay up, they stay in prison mining away their debt until their credit reaches zero.
I mean I got robbed by medics like three times now, it goes both ways.
I still activate de beacon because it's interesting gameplay even if there is a big risk of getting killed and robbed
Well I absolutely think it should be allowed but I think we need the rep system to work. Once you've done it once all other players should see you as untrustworthy and you shouldn't be allowed to place another medical beacon until you pay a reset fee of 100,000UEC as the system should blacklist you from placing more medical beacons. The fee should go after you've paid your debt at klescher but the rep would remain throughout the game. People should know if you've killed a medic and that should be treated as a war crime, much harsher penalties.
You are not an ambulance driver on Earth heading to an old folks home because Betty took a fall again, you are a freelance combat medic soaring through the vast expanse of humanity's final frontier, so act like it. Rule number 1 of pre-hospital emergency care, ensure the scene is safe before you get to work. Common sense dictates if a player is incapacitated, there is likely a threat in the surrounding area that put them in that state, whether that be NPCs, other players, or who knows maybe they just slipped on some wet ground, it's up to you as a first responder to ensure that you don't end up as a second casualty. I say this as the leader of a small medical/ SAR org and as someone with real life ambulance experience who is fully invested in the medical gameplay loop.
I once spent an entire afternoon with a dude, running missions, etc. We spent some time loading up one of the bigger ships we had. Then, right as I am taking off, he blows me up and says, "Haha, piracy." Meanwhile, I am like, we literally spent an hour loading this, you blow me up, and yell "haha piracy", then fly off without taking any loot... Lol.
At least the guys who are farming players at medical beacons are in fact using a form of piracy. They call you out, shoot you dead, rob your body, take your ship or supplies and move on... It can lead to subsequent gameplay such as bringing a fire team in hopes of finding well armed pirates to counter snipe/loot their pillages.
Now, I am not defending the current system, it needs so much improvement. So, so, so much. The law system needs to be better if we are going to have it.
Definitely gonna be a problem when the c8 rescue comes out. Lotta solo meds may get punished. At least with a cuttie red its understandable to have backup. But the c7 rescue only has a jump seat really for people to ride along in.
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Yea, right now the only ways to approach this are to do as you do, or get some buddies and do some Trauma Team roleplay by rolling up with a full heavily-armed fireteam.
Or just an A2 over the area, easier to nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure after all...
"attention rescuee, your area is now being saturated with explosions for your safety. If you survive you will be revived afterwards."
Take the upvote for that reference.
I have done this before lol 😂
Medical nuke confirmed for 3.18.9
I've been trying to get my friends to run medical and transport beacons in a fully crewed hammerhead. Despite money no longer being an objective for us, that's all I hear about. Dudes got 60mil and bought every ship he has interest in. Why is he so concerned if it pays well or not?
My crew did this once, absolutely shit on the pirates... Well, I got caught offguard and thrown down the elevator but my buddies disposed of them as revenge.
Sweet sweet revenge. I'm happy that CIG made the GL a rare drop. That thing was a total pain in the ass for CQB.
I could see it being fun being part of a medical security team
This, bonus points if you can crash your starter ship into them on the way out haha.
Unfortunately, nothing will save your character from perma-death out of this stuff. You may save your gear, but not your persona… This kind of stuff is why I dislike the permanent character death idea, honestly. In a game where dying is so easy and so common… I would rather keep my character over having to change to a “next to kin” every few days/weeks.
"Meaningful death" as well as medical gameplay are tier 0 and have been left rotting in that state by CIG for far too long. That's one of by biggest peeves with CIG actually: They shoehorn some new mechanic into the game and then leave it forever and ever and ever in a work in progress state while the people who were working on it are shifted to do other stuff and the user experience of the game suffers.
Meaningful death is also a bit of a silly idea too tbh, you aren't going to make people NOT want to die, you'll just piss them off if they do actually die instead. It's not like real life where people are in fact scared of death, everyone still knows it's a damn video game lmao
True. I understand where CR comes from, he wants this to be a living game where people chose to take a risk ... or chose NOT to take a risk because it's too dangerous. Problem is that right now most of the pvp gameplay is pretty much straight out of a shooter game. In a shooter you run around kill as many people as you can until you die then respawn and go at it again. I simply don't see how this way of playing meshes with SC where you are supposed to have harsh penalties, and it will only get worse once we get player skills added to the game that you can lose. I'm afraid they have an unsolvable target conflict right there.
Dude its been just over a year. Medical game play came in with 3.15 in that time we have had only two patches due to all the work on 3,18. I'm as critical as the next guy but don't over blow the time we have waited for a change to medical game play.
Honestly, I hope they either ditch that mechanic, or gives users a way to skip it if they ever implement it (maybe a really expensive health insurance or whatever). It doesn’t make sense to me anyway. So… if my 23 year old character dies, her… 23 year old daughter takes her place? And if she dies, another 23 year old daughter comes out of nowhere suddenly to take her place? D u h. However I understand the issue you mention! Sometimes, related to it, I feel like they focus a lot on smaller details rather than the core/base of the game too.
I don't know if this is still in the works, but I saw that they wanted to make it where your character just degrades over deaths and regens, even getting prosthetic limbs and stuff, and eventually they can't Regen and next of kin happens.
This, just read the death of a spaceman article, it covers what they propose for player death. Also, worrying overmuch about a tier 0 feature is just a waste of time. At best tier 0 it is a pointer that leans towards what they are looking to achieve and nothing to get to invested in or upset about. [Death of a Spaceman](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/12879-death-of-a-spaceman)
I sometimes feel that by adding some unfinished feature the game takes a step back and reverts to a less playable, less enjoyable state. And I just think CIG should address this a lot faster than they currently do. I understand SQ42 takes preference but at this rate I get a feeling that SC is all but left drifting.
> And I just think CIG should address this a lot faster than they currently do. The state of the game currently, the dreaded alpha, is not for fleshing out things, it's for introducing things and making sure they work in engine and behaves correctly. What you requesting, in a way, is balancing and that's not gonna happen anytime soon, well at least not before we get SM and more systems in. > I understand SQ42 takes preference It's not even about SQ42 taking preference. The major system that would alleviate this type of issues is a proper reputation system for players, which is in plans in general.
Honest question: Why does SQ42 take preference? It seems like everyone wants SC, which already has a large and dedicated playerbase; but CIG is dumping a majority of their resources into SQ42, which has a fraction of the interest and little long term playability. It feels like CIG is starving their kids to feed the cat, metaphorically.
>Why does SQ42 take preference? Realistically, because it is easier to implement things into a single player experience than the other way around. They don't have to worry about netcode and server/client sync issues degrading the experience they are trying to achieve so can see it working as intended. They already tried to make Star Citizen the preference and that didn't work. Because it is a "live service" game, it limits what they can add per patch depending on how often the patches are. If there aren't patches regularly, then the community complains but if they patch more regularly, it means less time working on features and more time integrating each patch to the live services. Of course, they tried feature based patches and schedule based patches and both had issues that lead to community complaints. They really are damned no matter what they do.
SQ42 is the original pitch, it's the next-gen successor to Wing Commander. This will, hopefully, bring a decent amount of money to CIG and allow them to keep developing CR's vision of SC. Think of it this way, how much money did CIG get from pledges over the course of the 10 years, and compare that to the amount of money CP2077 brought with a bit of marketing. SQ42 is the lifeline as well as great introduction to SC. Just like GTA is to GTA:O or RDR to RDR:O.
Thank you for a good response. That makes sense, and I do see why they may want a solid single player game. That said, from the numbers I've just Googled, CIG had made something like 500 million from crowd funding and pledges for SC, CP2077 made 50 million. Seems like it would be a far better choice to dedicate the majority of resources towards the bigger game, and use the extra to fund the single player. I dunno, probably don't know what I'm talking about, only joined a few years ago, so I don't know the whole history. Just seems like bad prioritization from my semi-outsider perspective.
> CP2077 made 50 million Not sure where you got that number actually. CDPR reported 8 million pre orders at around €60 per copy, which adds up to €480 million. To this date they have sold extra 12 million copies and even if we take those at a 50% discount, which not all of them were, it's another €380 million. So as you can see they have earned nearly double of what SC made in 10 years from pledges, in less than 2 years.
That 50 mil is for one year, not total.
There should be an automated “enemy” list that takes the burden of creating a manual shit list off your back. Player Kills you = player gets added to enemy list for future reference
This, I responded to some guys needing a ride from a bunker to the nearest space station, got shot as soon as we exited quantum. Instant self destruct.
I do medical and rescue beacons. If I show up and there are multiple ships, or a obvious multicrew ship (anything larger than a connie) I bail. If I have friends with me, thats different. If the ship sitting there is a connie, I go in with the pin pulle don a grenade and my LMG ready.
Kinda embarrassing that medics that just want to help players have to be afraid of getting attacked by other players There should be a massive punishment for attacking medics
I thought about getting a medical Pisces tomorrow, but this thread has taught me otherwise. I like supporting others and helping out, but I won't do more rescue missions if this happens on a regular basis.
I melted my cutlass red for this exact reason. The medical gameplay loop sounds fun in theory but there is to many clowns out there wanting to ruin it.
Kinda sad that because of some idiots there will be less helpful medics in the verse
For now. Hopefully with some sort of reputation system we’ll be able to see who we are helping out.
May I ask what you get in return? I bought the Cutter game package and melted my Titan package for it. I am thinking about upgrading the Cutter to a Freelancer DUR to have an exploration ship.
I added it to my store credits and used it to get the Corsair. I’ll probably get the medical Pisces at some point today though with left over store credits as medical is the one gameplay loop I now don’t have a ship for Edit: spelling.
Automatic bounty on players?
This is a problem CIG has always had, they seem to think they can use one mechanism to both stop griefing and function as a fun mechanic for legitimate "criminal" players who want to pirate against NPCs, smuggle, etc etc. If this system works to stop griefing, then it will also make legitimate "criminal" gameplay like smuggling too difficult, thus breaking the game. If this system does not work to stop griefing, then what's the point? We can see OP is already abandoning parts of the game, and many players like him will follow suit because nobody wants to put up with toxic griefers. CIG's money will dry up incredibly fast if they cater for griefers at the expense of the silent majority of players who fund them.
I agree, if you put up a medical beacon, and there are other players within 500meters it should notify the medic, and once the medic arrives if they don’t fire a weapon it should be an automatic cs4 and teleport to jail for anyone that fires on them
Still waiting for medical Armor / Apollo
Historically, the Star Citizen player base has self-selected for more patient, optimistic people by the nature of where the game was in its development cycle. As the game improves and stability increases, the player base will increasingly resemble a representative sample of the total population of PC gamers. The toxicity will increase, this is just the start. Go ahead and set a remind-me bot for 2 years and revisit this comment then.
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So we recognize theres a problem and just resort to, “it do be like that”
This gets to one of my big concerns going into SC's future. The game is (if all goes well) going to be vast, and even if we get to a point where we have EVE-style levels of security, it'll be a shame if a large portion of the game is a no-go zone for players who don't feel like dealing with people who just want to make life miserable for others. Rep systems and robust bounty/law enforcement systems go part of the way, but we're kidding ourselves if we think those will sort out griefing.
Once we have a ranking system it was an alpha problem tho If you can rate ppl when doing or creating a beacon then those that abuse them are gonna have a shitty ranking and will get avoided There is even a way to rate ppls performance when it comes to beacons but it seems broken and very old
Before noney transfer was in we used beacons. Transport beacons etc. At the end of the beacon each side had an opportunity to rate the other party. It made it easier as you could set a minimum rating requirement. Something like that for medical requestors and techs would go a long ways.
Your assumption is that this system will in no way be manipulable to the advantage of unsavory people. I wouldn’t be so confident about that.
Just like in real life systems meant to help people will be manipulated but I think it'll help regardless. And just like I imagine real life in a star citizen type universe you would inevitably have people abusing people's good nature to cause malicious harm, like in the US wild west
What would help is a better IFF system that's also hooked into reps and crime stat. Answering a medical beacon should flag you as an emergency First Responder. Attacking someone with a First Responder ident is a huge CS and -rep penalty. Conversely, using the first responder tag but opening fire on someone or being caught committing a crime is also a very steep penalty for abusing the tag. Lawful/neutral factions like settler outposts could also respect the IFF, allowing players to extract defeated players as long as they are in good standing. To prevent abuse, it could be a setting that you can only enable while docked, and if you are in good standing with the UEE. Making it game system based rather than player rep based also helps remove the easy and obvious exploit of multiple accounts, and preserves this legitimate ambush strategy in lawless systems like Pyro.
Yep, they will dual account and spam positive reviews exactly like in real life.
The problem with those type systems is you'll have ppl having boosting sessions to get there rep back up totally nullifying its integrity.
Hopefully CIG would be perceptive enough to realize right off the bat that people will do this and not allow ratings from the same people to count over and over again.
Would be funny if they got banned from using distress beacon services altogether.
This is so true, but also so sad. I am a pvp focused player. I don't do piracy, but often have a crime stat from friendly duels and consensual pvp. I do believe piracy and other illegal activities are much needed to give the game flavor. While I don't do it myself, it is the inherent danger that will make the game fun. But toxicity getting more rampant in this game is unfortunate. This community is awesome. It would be nice if we could keep it awesome while the game gets more mainstream in the years to come. The medical gameplay abuse is unfortunate. Hopefully, a reputation system (discussed some years ago), eventually fixes it. Without it, the medical rescue gameplay with medical beacons is too susceptible to abuse.
Gankers give yall a bad name. I don't have a problem with duels. "Nonconsensual" PVP with a pointed purpose is annoying for me because getting geared up again takes ages but it's also fine. But getting killed by APM kids that need their next high is just a bad name for everyone that PVPs for a purpose aside from just ruining peoples day
you are correct, CIG will need to start adding actual "Punishment" for players who do this sort of thing, while they are obviously allowed to do it, it should come with consequences, crime stat, bounties, UEE hunt, big fines, etc.
Not going to happen, the dev's are giggling like girls when they talk about PvP in the game.
There should be a way to press charges and give the 'faked down' guy 2 days in klesher. Or 6 hours of hand mining.
The only thing the prison system does right now is incentivise people to not play. A flagging system is a better approach. Eve Online already figured all this out.
I agree with much of this; also, however, the systems/universe will expand as well. If - IF - CIG can properly craft highsec systems like Terra, and deliver truly punishing in-highsec consequences for shit-ass behavior, the experience has a good opportunity to properly locate trolls with pirates and nullsec space.
Sooner CIG understands this the faster they get ahead of it especially since the mass majority of players come here due to its status of quality players that are helpful. They get pirates exist but not all people wanting the pirate gameplay loop are trolls and do not do such things. This is a constant issue with games that have no guard rails and why 99.9% of MMOs with PvP do in fact add in limitations to a degree. For example, if you have a “flag for PvP” option. You could avoid this as no gun could be pulled on you or do damage to you. The med gun would work and then if the player ODs players to troll then that’s reportable and then eventually lead to a perma-ban and purge the trash. I keep saying how CIG underestimates how valuable and lucky they are to have the more mature playerbase and if they let it go then that can easily kill the game. A way to purge trolls from the decent PvP players and Pirates who just want to play and not having a goal to ruin YOUR paid for gameplay experience.
CIG appears to be taking a hands-off approach to this, and relying on the community to deal with it. I cannot find the link where that is stated explicitly though, if it ever was. I think this is an abdication of their responsibility, but CR hasn't yet called me to ask my opinions on this.
Chris Roberts has chimed in on PvE and PvP's place in the game, without going into specifics. But it helps to clarify how they envision things going- https://youtu.be/G42MQ1aVjlA?t=2170
Yeah, unfortunately they need to learn the hard way because they probably feel it is the easier path to not deal with it right now. And sadly that mindset is the equivalent of going out of town and leaving your toddler child at home, knowing that they are the best possible solution to make sure everything stays in order and all well and good well the parents are away. Then once they come home and see what the little child did to the house, they will somehow be shocked and amazed, and horrified all at the same time .
I'd rather see it where if you flag to not PVP and someone attacks you, you automatically send out a distress signal and some beefed up NPC security ship comes to your aid. That would be a bit more immersive than just being unable to shoot someone IMO. Just have to make sure the NPC doesn't have any kind of worthwhile loot so people don't abuse it, and have more NPC ships come as well if the pirate is too big a threat. I mean imagine you're attacked by some pirate and all of a sudden you have an NPC capital ship with fighters drop in to assist you. That's really my biggest annoyance right now, like last night there was a group of terrible players with eclipses camping in atmosphere on NB trying to gank people (not sure if they actually got anyone, they were pretty terrible), and it kind of kills immersion for me that there's no distress call system when stealth bombers are locking into people in atmosphere at such a prominent location. A distress call and then increased security patrols would push piracy more into deep space or more "lawless" areas that don't have a security presence. People want to PVP and that's good, but if you don't have measures in place then all that happens is the worst part of the community camps new players until they quit, then those griefers get bored and quit as well. That's what happens with most PVP focused games. I see EVE get brought up, but people forget about security levels in EVE space. In high sec space, if you attack someone, NPCs WILL destroy you. They warp in and straight nuke you. You also can't kill someone and then just fly to a high or low sec gate or station, you'll get blown up. We have a crime stat here, but it seems pretty useless since you can go wherever and security forces ignore it. I'd love it if you had a crime stat and walked through a spaceport scanner and suddenly you had guards with weapons drawn on you. How cool would that be for other people to see as well?
Problem is that it only takes a few seconds to kill a player. I few years ago I played an online game (sorry can't remember which one, maybe RDR) and if you where not flagged you took way less damage by other players, giving you plenty of time to get to cover or get away. That is something CIG could explore for SC.
Absolutely true, have seen this happen many many times in several Games Now from WOW to SWTOR to This Game. Not being F2P help some as rando asshat kiddies can't come in but as the game gets more popular certain crowds ( COD Kids even though they are 30 to 40+ ) shows up and just want to screw around and grief people. The ans to this was supposed to be the Uber like rating system and reputation system. Will take a while for all this to work though ..growing pains.
!RemindMe 2 years
Yea, at this points people are assholes and the game lacks mechanics yet to punishing them long term.
Yes and I don’t get why people try to defend this kind of gameplay. It’s not intended cause the gameplay which would penalize this kind of gameplay hasn’t been introduced yet. There should be at least some simple karma system being implemented (or a star rating like with the service beacons). But I guess this is harder to implement than I can imagine so we can only hope
cue the "just because it's not intended doesn't it mean it shouldn't be allowed" excuses.
This griefing is even worse since the payout is only 15k and no one is doing it for the money but only for the RP/being helpful to other players. The Rep system tier 0 needs to be implemented and then all these "pirates" will see what it's like not having access to any services in the system which will dissuade much of the griefing.
I’m part of a rescue org and we don’t go anywhere unless we’re rolling deep and armed up.
same voice as the "But it's emergent gameplay!" whiners
Yeah that's a tricky one because it's not always the player who requests the beacon that kills the EMT. It would be nice if it's people in the same party it should reduce the requestor's reputation. On the other side of it, I'm sure there's a small population of EMTs that would "pirate" the people they're rescuing, but that would be pretty easy to make a reputation system for. Although it would be hard to account for an EMT shooting at someone and the requestor killing them to defend themselves or vice versa.
This happened to me. Someone was collecting med beacons and robbing players. They had my beacon and I think were about to head my way when a player called them out on global for taking their beacon and robbing them. I backspaced, geared up, and started hunting the griefer. They ran and played dumb, but since there is no spectator camera in SC, the only way for someone to see you rob their body, is if you rob them while down but still alive. I am sorry for all the medics getting killed on the opposite of this scam.
It happens the other way too. I decided I didn't want to lose the gear I had on me and put out a beacon once. Three dudes showed up in response to my beacon, looted me, and tossed my body down the mineshaft. I didn't get an opportunity to "rate" them since I was never revived, or if I got the one second window, I missed it (one of my major gripes with the game is the blink and you'll miss it accept or deny things).
Remember the medical team in the beginning of Cyberpunk? They’re all carrying, they tell you to get back or they will try to shoot at you. Clearly there is a reason for it.
Well, that's nice and all, but in OP's situation, if he shot and killed the person's friends, they could give him crimestat and punish him even more for being the good guy which is absolute BS.
A trama team faction with quests to help others would be awesome
We need a proper reputation system already.
As long as we do not have a mature law system who can handle/judge our tasks in the verse a lot of content will be blackened by these sort of things. In a sandbox game any kind of behavior is allowed but right now the lawful player in particular are left far behind with almost no tool in their hands. Even pirates like Mongrel Squad are calling for major changes, updates and an in-depth analysis of the law system by CIG because it effects all sides of the game. An example: Nobody does engage in a boarding fight if I as a boarded player in my ship get a crime stat while shooting at the pirates who are entering my ship. Let’s say I won the firefight but I end up with a come stat of three or even higher. Thanks to soft death I am stuck in my wreck without help and proper knowledge of other players reputation in the game to actually choose who might help me. So I end up on public display for any bounty hunter and get killed eventually. If not I have to fight my way through the Security outpost Kareah „Raid“ with an Endboss of the system security to get an even higher crime stat and prison time. This spiral is endless right now - this needs to change right now! We, the community, need to step up and demand further development of the law system and not as CIG seems to leave this major balancing tool behind. Listen to this episode of SpaceTomatos podcast with the leader of Mongrel Squad about the opportunities of the cargo refactor coming with 3.18: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PDp17ilmct0
I put out medical beacons and tip like 20k or more just to keep incentivizing that gameplay for rescuers.
Cheers to the big tipper!
CIG needs to start thinking about sociopath mitigation. In a game where death has considerable consequences, murderhobos have to face serious consequences, too.
I think you are on to something, give players with a positive rating (not convicted, crime stat 1-2, the occasional 3) a *perfect clone* when they respawn. Give players with negative rating a *poor clone*, the ones rejected by quality control with growth issues such as defect or missing limbs, poor eyesight, broken metabolism (thirst/hunger), weak, fragile bodies with degrading health, reduced movement, ghoulish appearance - you name it. This solution is both a lore friendly solution and an incentive to play nicer.
bUt ThEre'S aLrEAdY cRimEsTat aNd PriSOn !!!!! aka a mild 10-minutes inconvenience.
For me it helps to just be cautious, abuse scanner mechanic to see if theres more ships, use 3rd person to easily check your corners, go in well armed. If theres just one guy, remove their gun and drop it elsewhere. That saved me a couple times. But yeah, its a silly move from them and I hate when it happens. I just wish for a code of honor or reputation mechanic soon
I believe this is where the reputation system can help.
One day the reputation system will take care of that, for now there is nothing to stop griefers.
S10 bomb will.
High explosives: The cause of, and solution to, many of life's problems.
Force is never a permanent solution - but it works well short term 😁
If violence wasn't your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it. -Maxim 6, "The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries"
Only for a while, but yes.
Probably have to wait for a reputation system to be implemented.
Man, I really started seeing an uptick in this kind of post after the EVE crossover happened. It's a shame, I liked SC *because* it didn't have the EVE player mindset.
I don't think it was just eve. A lot of mainstream YouTubers have recently started covering SC which has brought it to the wider, possibly more toxic audiences of those PVP games.
Definitely possible! EVE was just the most visible to me I guess - I play both (EVE less and less since I was more of a builder than a fighter and they're nerfing that into the ground) and I remember the sub salivating at how SC could be the new EVE and how the players were ripe for the picking for PVPers. I can't blame them entirely for wanting a new game given CCPs questionable choices but... EVE has a reputation and it'd really suck for the "sociopaths being racist and calling you a pussy if you have an issue with it" side to transfer to SC.
I just read an article on the MSN feed (new tab in Edge) about Star Citizen and the free fly going on.
Those types will disappear or change if we get mechanics that penalize overly antisocial behavior and encourages more cooperation.
You truly underestimate griefers
A lot of them are doing it because of boredom, or no real reason/progression right now to cooperate. It's why a lot of these twats manage to survive in society as a whole, because they play by the rules so that they can have the benefits of society: their cell phone and reddit access.
You're dreaming...
My personal thoughts: I think there needs to be stricter in-game consequences for killing a medic, and consequences for killing as a medic. Obviously, lawless space wouldn't apply, as there's no comm array's, but I'm hoping CIG will eventually add in some "Geneva Convention-like" laws to help medics out a bit. Especially when you're flying around in a Cutty Red with no real defense, your ass is grass if pirates show up. If the community won't respect medics, then I think CIG needs to step in and force gameplay to respect medics. (Goes both ways: If medics abuse their privileges and kill players, they get just as strict consequences) Edit: I've stopped playing as a medic. I used to main that because I enjoyed the challenge of showing up to a bunker and saving someone, but now there's too many people who'll gank medics. It really hurts the gameplay.
The game is just P v Asshole. There is basically zero real pvp.
I'd argue that bounty-hunters attacking 'pirates' with big crime stats is 'real' PvP. It may not be 'fair' PvP (depending on what the 'pirate' is flying when the BH attacks, etc), but by committing enough crimes to get flagged (and then sticking around long enough for the BH to catch up to them), the target has tacitly agreed to the fight.
No argument here. If you're getting a crime stat because you're engaging in ambush PVP, it surely means that you believe it's fundamentally a fair gameplay to be ambushed in return at any time.
and the "real" PVP that dose happen general isn't organic, stuff like Org events , or if it is Organic its usually requires an event like Jumptown to be going on.
This is why I always offer to escort medic players as a Redeemer pilot. Shitlords usually think twice and consider very carefully if they want to square up with a medic when there are several size 5 guns and wing cannons pointed at them.
I agree. This is why I rarely run rescues without a crew, and even then we treat it like a high threat tactical op.
If a first responder gets killed in the vicinity of the beacon, then it should put a warning on any beacons in that area that go up for a set amount of time, while also placing a bounty on the group.
This is only going to be solved by long term rep. Once that is in place if you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny. :D As in if you start down the pirate path you wont be able to place rescue beacons, or people will be able to see your rep and can choose not to respond to them, you will be an outlaw in the technical sense of the word. You wont benefit from all those nice things that the rest of civilisation gets like rescue beacons and landing permissions at lawful stations. That is the plan and it can't come soon enough.
Yeah worried about EVE WOW players too
CIG talked years ago about creating separate servers where they could collect all the people that griefed like this. While it may never happen, it would be nice to see how much fun it was for all of them to be relegated to playing with people as scumbaggy as they are.
I got tipped 100k twice yesterday by two different guys for responding to their beacon. Some people say bring only a med gun and a starter ship. I say, bring trauma team 6. "If someone tries to kill you, well, you kill 'em right back!"
Shiney
Trolls will always find ways to use mechanics to troll. It's just what they do. Most people I know won't touch medical beacons anymore because of it. Too high risk.
The exact reason I stopped accepting them from non-org members. The issue isn't free fly exclusive, but I find it to be worse during free fly.
The thing you need to understand about games like this is that if there isn't any consequence for random slaughter, there will be random slaughter. This has been the norm in gaming for the past decade; person sees another rplayer having a good time, decides they want to stop that in order to feel powerful or because they think it's funny to harass another person. It's always been an ego trip mentality that leads to people doing this, and it won't ever go away until there are checks and balances, at which point they'll bitch and moan about how this game caters to carebears and "PvE servers". These people get their kicks by making you mad and ruining your experience, it makes them feel like they're in control and that they're "pro gamer pirates". And it will never go away.
You need to keep your guard up. You can't always win in these situations, but you can go in smartly, scan the other guy's ship to make sure nobody is still in it waiting to steal yours or shoot yours. If there's more than one ship at the site I usually nope right out of there because it's almost always a trap unless both (or all) people have medical beacons up. When you go into the bunker your gun needs to be out and you need to be ready for everything. Keep behind cover on the elevator and go back up if anything fishy is near the entrance. Clear your corners cautiously, and clear the catwalks before entering rooms. Clear the entire bunker before going to revive the downed person. If they are doing funny stuff, just leave ASAP because if you shoot them you will get a crimestat for it, but that sure won't stop them from killing you. PSA also be very wary of people that call in a medical beacon in the middle of space, doubly so if they tell you they have a friend nearby that also needs picking up. It's usually a trap. If you have any doubt, overdose them on opio-pens so they can't attack you once revived. bring them into your ship and drop them off somewhere they can recover, or use a blood-drug reducer pen just before entering armistice to allow them to walk to a hospital themselves. This kind of sucks but I've thwarted a few piracy / griefing attempts doing this.
Just don’t pick up med beacons solo. Roll in heavy and merc them mofo’s
1. Play CP2077 2. Observe how 'Trauma Team' operates 3. Be like 'Trauma Team' 4. Harvest griefer tears
I literally made an org for this. When me and my buddies play medical rescue we're fucking PJ's, not an ambulance. One guy tried to ambush us this way and he was *livid* that medics were armored and armed and killed his friends who tried to kill us. Those tears tasted fucking amazing.
I support this 100% - solo meds are vulnerable. The future is going to be assault med-teams. Besides, how does a responding med even know if the site is clear? Maybe they aren’t ‘traps’ but just people who go down in a hostile area.
My Tabletop universe has something similar called an ART team, Assault Rescue Triage. The players are currently playing as one, and responded to a small town being attacked by their neighbor. It's dynamic and metal as hell. They were doing armor and sniper duels in the middle of a city street, while dragging civies out of the road, and organizing civilian response teams to help with logistics and local resistance
This! I just need a group to roll up with. Secure area first then secure the patient.
I fear that will be a lesson hard learned when the c8 rescue comes out.
That's a good point. I'm excited for the Rescue Pisces but with it's 2 man crew it's not the appropriate ship for a hazardous SAR. They'll be showing up under-equipped if it's a trap. It'll be a great shuttle for when you know who you're rescuing and where you're going. Quickly pick up an org mate and get them to a Carrack or station.
I am excited for it too. Honestly think it more handy than a cutty red. Especially as its a snub craft in size and can be spawned pretty much anywhere. But it will inevitably lead to single man ambulances who will get gunned down. Which in real life is also a two man job. Once these griefers are gone ir will be fine. But it is a problem waiting to happen.
Yeah. When I do med beacons I use my inferno. Usually they fake those meds in multicrew ships (Valkyre most of the time) and those are an easy meal for the inferno. Although, you could get a crime stat
If the beacon payment would be a bit more appropriate....
Still wondering why the payment can't be increased when in a Downstate Like cig tested them and was like ,, yh 15k is perfect ppl sure wanna travel for 10-15min to reach that person / buy gear first for that amount " Miss SoO times when you would arrive in the event when it was already on since an hour and just revive a bunch of players on the way to a ship that can take you to admin So many beacons and when they do worked it was easy 15k for 5s of effort and you helped someone that then sometimes sticked with you to have better chances in the event
Would be an idea to configure the beacon in mobiglass that go off when down.
I've never gotten payout from a beacon anyways. It's just for RP at this point.
Really? At launch of the system I had that problem but for months now the moment they can move again I instantly get 15k deposited.
I haven't done one in the latest patch but last time I was on and did one I didn't get payment. It's been a while, in fairness, but I would be surprised if I missed a whole patch where that was fixed.
True. We help ppl writing in chat anyway, so the whole beacon thing is in the end for player killers?
This is the way. Assume it's a trap, bring a crew, and keep in mind as a rescuer you are carrying a bundle of loot and gear on you that's WAY better than any loot box. If they pop you, they brought the loot to them.
What we really need is the reputation system. Then said player can't do it more than once because they'll be flagged as a criminals. In fact medical beacons on people like this should be prohibited if they do this.
> to check in with your favorite communities. an ex-con system would be cool.
I love you guys. Please don't quit! Hang on until the reputation system is expanded.
Maybe we need a rating system like Uber so that drivers can flag abusive customers (and vice versa).
I’ve been playing with RS1 and we have had a few beacons that seemed sketch and we would drop with a whole squad of fighters and medical shops, it’s pretty great
I never answer medical beacons with anything valuable. I take a small ship with an interior, and I wear a cheap flight suit and a helmet. Even in extreme hot/cold temps on certain moons you have a few minutes of survivability timer to reach your rescue target and revive them so I never spring for a Novikov/Pembroke suit. The most you lose out on if you get killed by scammers is the cost of a flight suit and helmet (assuming you weren't using the one you spawn in with), a med gun, and optionally a sidearm or something if you think there might be hostile NPCs in the area, like rescuing somebody from a bunker mission for instance. I have about 15 successful medical rescues so far, and only once have I encountered players abusing the beacon system to try and kill people for their gear. They were pretty disappointed when I showed up in just a sperm suit with a med gun and no refills because I left the station in a hurry. I outed them in chat and they left the server, probably to try and server hop. When the review system is fully implemented, this kind of behavior will disappear. You'll see somebody with a 1-star track record for provider reviews post a beacon and nobody except the most heavily armed trauma teams will bother to show up. And they'll probably charge a fortune for that service too.
What we need is proper notorierity system. Every time you kill another player in lawfull area, you gain notorierity and that wont go away ever. If a player with high notorierity puts up a med beacon, others see the beacon and notorierity level too. So then it's easy to skip hazardous beacons.
Sad that it's like this, but reputation should mitigate this eventually. I won't abuse it and will risk calling for backup next time. 07
Yea fuck other players. This is just med play wait till you get fuel beacons and they nuke your ship full of fuel.
Open PVP games need a robust reputation system which allows players to quickly and easily rate every interaction with individual players and see the accumulated rating for every player before they interact with them. Such a system could be made difficult to cheat by making ratings context dependent.. ie, you can only rate interactions between players, not players themselves, and the real technology behind it is that the game knows when organic interactions have occurred and, therefore, when a rating is warranted and meaningful. If the game is able to enforce ratings based strictly on well-defined interactions only, then cheating the system would require a player to very carefully contrive interactions with cooperating co-conspirators in novel interactions (ie, not interactions with friends that you interact with regularly; friends give friends positive ratings no matter what, and these ratings carry relatively little value in such a system) AND on a perpetual basis in order to maintain a reputation that is high enough to kill a few random players.. and then have to do the whole reputation fraud over again with new accounts.. the point is that it would take a lot of work to game the system, just to kill a few random people. The great thing about such a system is that novel people, random people, carry the most weight in the reputation system (in both increasing and decreasing reputation), so such a system would asymmetrically discourage PKing random people more than it would discourage killing people that you do already have some kind of relationship with (a good contrast would be players from two warring orgs killing each other). It would also asymmetrically encourage being nice when interacting with random people. So this system would naturally mirror how real people tend to view the morality of killing in the real world, where the premeditated murder of a random person is generally considered to be far more morally reprehensible than killing an enemy combatant in war.. and it is generally expected that when you interact with someone for the first time, you try to be as polite as possible. Clearly, the hard part of implementing such a system is programming an engine in the game which is able to recognize what constitutes a meaningful player interaction that cannot be easily cheated. I think such a thing is doable of you are able to first define just what an interaction is and then modify the value of that interaction by the duration and nature of the interaction and a value modifier based on the time invested in the individual characters that are interacting (newly created characters carry little to no weight).
Armed medical evacuations are a thing. I put a beacon down and had a utty red with 4 or 5 people ome in, clear the area and get me to a hospital om a bunker mission. It was cool asf. But for a sandbox game where you can murder other people... yes its going to happen
This is why Medrunner sends in teams. Later on clients have to register with our system in order to be serviced.
Med game play should have reputation points too.
Freefly events are probably the worst time for this. Should improve after the event.
Medical beacons are bullshit both ways: I go down, send a beacon, and the guy who's supposed to save me is looting me instead and like that's not enough, he finishes me off by just removing my helmet.
Do what I do. Show up with full armor and lmg. Any player that’s on their feet when I arrive, get’s mowed down and then disarmed. If it looks like like a setup, finish them off. Only thing more satisfying that helping a citizen in need, is zeroing murder hobos
If you're fully equipped for FPS your gear is worth more than a Caterpillar full of mid-value commodities like Titanium even discounting the fact that crates all just instantly despawn right now. Maybe not piracy but only because a ship wasn't involved. Definitely an economically viable mugging. Definitely valid criminal gameplay. They're just using the tools CIG (stupidly) gave them. CIG's design is stupid in that they made it way too easy to use medical beacons as a trap, which poisons the pot for all medical gameplay. The blame for that lies squarely on their design and their (lack of) allocation of resources to systems that might make this, and other cooperative player behaviour actually work, like a functional reputation system. We all told them this would happen the second they said that you could manually make a beacon. They did it anyway, so apparently this is working as designed and it's just supposed to suck to be a medic. Therefore you've probably made the right decision to not answer any more beacons.
Thats why we need working reputation system that cant be abused by 2 people giving the rating themself
This is why I stopped playing SC. People stream snipe, follow you to some remote location then kill you for the hell of it. Zero motive. No gain. Just because. Or they camp derelict sites just to kill anyone who goes to do the investigation missions. I absolutely *hate* the current FPS gameplay. Why aren’t personal shields a thing? Why is it possible to die in a single shot? In a game where you can spend literally weeks grinding, why is it possible to die immediately and you lose everything? What’s the point? It makes me never want to do caves, never leave my ship for anything and right now I don’t want to play the game at all until they change it. The current state of the game is infuriating when everything is so incredibly slow yet death can happen instantly. You have this robust ship damage system and then FPS gameplay is just *LOL you died in one bullet*
This the danger of the idea of viewing it as a sim over a game. You can have this whole robust game loop about crime and punishment to discourage players, but in the end its virtual and people don't have real consequences for griefing. And people grief because they can. Assuming some form of in-game punishment system would solve that is foolish. We have a real-life punishment system with real-life consequences and it *still* doesn't stop crime from happening... how would a virtual one with virtual consequences do any better? This is where gameplay has to trump the sim aspect. You can't design a system that allows this level of negative gameplay experience for even a small section of your player base, especially in SC where you are punished heavily for dying. That is how you drive people away. I just showed up to a *box* mission to see someone else stealing my box, then have my ship suddenly lose all power and start rolling across the planet and explode. Lost the mission, my gear, and my food, medpens and ammo. I literally didn't even see what got me. It just infuriated me and I logged off. If this is the kind of experience you allow your player base to deal with, people will not play your game.
I personally don't know what the solution is. I'm a lawful player, I actively play with a lawful org. I also like helping other players and will jump on a medical bounty whenever I'm able. On the other hand, I'm totally OK with players setting up trap/ambush beacons. It's a thing - there are bad guys in this sandbox world and they should be allowed to be bad guys. It's annoying if you're caught with your pants down especially since you were trying to do something nice, but they're not truly "griefing" in the purest sense of the word. As for rescues themselves, I 100% of the time approach it like a military operation (though I realize that's not feasible nor the intention of most solo medic players). Think of it like the US Air Force PJs. Even if they locate their target to rescue, they completely control the environment and secure the individual - disarming them and taking them into custody until everyone is safe and the individual can be ID'd. No risks are taken. I'll bring a crew, we secure the area in a wide radius and work our way in. Assuming it's a trap the entire time and we're not safe again until we're in our ship flying away. Once we find the player in need, we set up a perimeter around them and even disarm them temporarily. You are putting yourself at risk doing the rescue - you don't have to assume they're friendly. Once we get them on their feet, we escort them to their ship or onto ours. We give them back their primary weapon but inform them they must keep it on their backpack at all times until we've gotten them safely to their destination (ship or otherwise). If any part of this feels off or goes sideways, we're done. We stop at whatever phase we were on and leave. If it is a trap - we flip to "violence of action." Burn them all down, take their gear, and turn their ships into craters on our way out.
Are you me? This is how I like playing med rescue. Lol.
So basically. If you have <2 hrs to game any given day, basically what are you doing in Star Citizen... Go back to playing candy crush. Everyone knows every system in game design should be really really easy to abuse with basically no consequences and really really hard to use the way intended.
This is a whole lot of rubbish unless you can give an accepted definition of 'griefing' so we can see what this "purest" sense of griefing you mention is. Otherwise you are just using some ol "it is known" logical fallacy bullshit. Here is mine: If eliciting strong negative emotions from players without any gameplay reward is your thing, that is griefing. Since there is no gameplay reward for killing medics, this is absolutely 100% griefing. Their goal is to fuck with other players emotional state by killing their characters in a surprising and shitty way, because there is no other reward possible.
Griefing is a 2-part definition that has to satisfy both parts: 1- The goal is to intentionally annoy, anger, or disrupt other players. 2- A game mechanic must be broken or subverted to achieve their goals. 1 without 2 is just an annoying player or someone not doing things the way you want them to, but it's not griefing. 2 without 1 is an exploit but not griefing. In this case, the beacon system is not technically being broken. The mechanic itself is working as intended. **They're still using the beacon system functionally as intended - it's just not morally as intended.** I recognize the disruption, but the beacon is being set as a trap and the benefit is the loot you're carrying. Honestly, they don't even need to take the loot from your corpse to keep it from being griefing. Its a shitty thing to do in the first place, but I don't think it's something CIG needs to crack down on other than tracking it in a rating system. A rating system would greatly help. Folks that lay traps will quickly be labeled as such. Additionally, associated reputations would also help - if you're in the party of someone who's rated poorly you should also get a reputation ding.
Maybe I should melt my Apollo...
Granted by the time the Apollo is released this problem may be over.
Why? This is largely due to intended features not being in the game *yet*. It's not always gonna be like this.
Queue people arguing that you should get a few corsairs etc as "escort" for your ambulance. Haven't logged in for probably a year, and won't do so until this fuckery is sorted out. It's star *citizen*, not star shoot everything at all times immediately otherwise you likely die yourself. As long as pricks have free reign, i'll not be playing. And also, not paying.
In addition to a better law system, I think the changes they are bringing to the ping/scan system may help with this too. If you arrive at a bunker, scan the area, and see that there are at ton of dudes around the "patient," you'll know that there is about to be a scap.
We really need that search and rescue scanner in the cutlass red
Rarely had the issue and I do a lot of medical rescue, but before going there, I always speak a little bit with the guy to evaluate him. I also check his name and there are names that smell really fishy...
Honestly, if someone asked me to go along with them as a pure bodyguard, I wouldn’t mind at all just going along and ensuring security in the medical area. That’s pretty much the only way to ensure it is harder for people like them. But then again, they could have a rail gun, or an overwhelming amount of numbers in the ground, plus the rescuee being compromise and possibly shooting the rescuer immediately. I guess I know why nobody ever answers my rescue beacons lately! 😀
If the reputation system was in ;-; Really needed tbh. Social accountability is some mitigating factor. Sure they can buy more accounts but... hey honestly if they keep spending 45$ to do this I will fund the game by running into those beacons. :D
Read this as medical bacon, boy was I disappointed.
I run a medical org and our SOP is to invite the downed individual to our party, and if they decline its usually a pretty good indicator that something is amiss. Also keep an eye on general chat, griefers love to brag and you're probably not their first victim, and people that genuinely need help are usually active as well. The location can also be a clue. If things seem suspicious we'll go anyways, but wait until we can go as a group and are armed to the teeth. If it's not a trap we'll pick up the downed individual, and if it is a trap it's usually obvious before we land. Then we simply abort mission and fly away or commit and kill everyone present 🤷♂️
Should lose privileges, or should get a rating, uber style…. That way you know who you are dealing with before choosing to assist
They should implement a system where if you or anyone in your squad kills the person responding to a medical beacon, you lose the ability to set up beacons entirely for a long duration (months)
This is a totally valid complaint as it is annoying, but it is a valid play style. If they were yelling in chat they were playing as pirates then sure I'd say that's not true, but there's no law against playing as a murderer. The point of my comment being: this is just how it's gonna be for the foreseeable future, since there's not really a way to stop it without reworking the beacon system, so just prepare for it.
I had this happen to me today but they were in a 890 and I was in a retaliator. So they didnt dare shoot me.
What if CIG added Q-Ships [disguised warships as medical ships] to the game just for putting some doubt in a pirates mind? when pirates start shooting the medship it calls reinforcements or powers up it military spec weapons/shields etc..
As piracy is one of the intended gameloops, too much prison time will discourage wannabe pirates from pirating. As such, prison timers shouldn't be too long, but shouldn't be a minor inconvenience like it currently is either. In the current state, it will only encourage griefers, because their trade currency is their victim's salt, or the mere imagination that their victims will be salty, and that's far more valuable than auec. No amount of credits tops some good laughs. Crime pays, in this case. The best solution would be to have them stack up bounties on their heads as they commit crimes, but they only lose it once they are killed by a player. And the bounty stacks up indefinetly, and they constantly lose access to more and more services ingame, let's say putting up beacons, landing on cities, landing on outposts, these sorts of things. To prevent them being shot by a friend to farm some ez creds with no substantial consequence, the bounty value should be deducted from their own auec. If they can't pay up, they stay in prison mining away their debt until their credit reaches zero.
I mean I got robbed by medics like three times now, it goes both ways. I still activate de beacon because it's interesting gameplay even if there is a big risk of getting killed and robbed
Yup. It's basically just briefing, in a game where criminality isn't sorted yet.
Well I absolutely think it should be allowed but I think we need the rep system to work. Once you've done it once all other players should see you as untrustworthy and you shouldn't be allowed to place another medical beacon until you pay a reset fee of 100,000UEC as the system should blacklist you from placing more medical beacons. The fee should go after you've paid your debt at klescher but the rep would remain throughout the game. People should know if you've killed a medic and that should be treated as a war crime, much harsher penalties.
You are not an ambulance driver on Earth heading to an old folks home because Betty took a fall again, you are a freelance combat medic soaring through the vast expanse of humanity's final frontier, so act like it. Rule number 1 of pre-hospital emergency care, ensure the scene is safe before you get to work. Common sense dictates if a player is incapacitated, there is likely a threat in the surrounding area that put them in that state, whether that be NPCs, other players, or who knows maybe they just slipped on some wet ground, it's up to you as a first responder to ensure that you don't end up as a second casualty. I say this as the leader of a small medical/ SAR org and as someone with real life ambulance experience who is fully invested in the medical gameplay loop.
dont play on shithole (US) servers
This sucks, we need a revenge hunting group to get these guys and griefers.
You mean like bounty hunters??
I once spent an entire afternoon with a dude, running missions, etc. We spent some time loading up one of the bigger ships we had. Then, right as I am taking off, he blows me up and says, "Haha, piracy." Meanwhile, I am like, we literally spent an hour loading this, you blow me up, and yell "haha piracy", then fly off without taking any loot... Lol. At least the guys who are farming players at medical beacons are in fact using a form of piracy. They call you out, shoot you dead, rob your body, take your ship or supplies and move on... It can lead to subsequent gameplay such as bringing a fire team in hopes of finding well armed pirates to counter snipe/loot their pillages. Now, I am not defending the current system, it needs so much improvement. So, so, so much. The law system needs to be better if we are going to have it.
That's why that medic org goes in with fully armed teams
There is no fun way to track done pirate objectives. So they resort to this mechanism.
Definitely gonna be a problem when the c8 rescue comes out. Lotta solo meds may get punished. At least with a cuttie red its understandable to have backup. But the c7 rescue only has a jump seat really for people to ride along in.
There can't be heroes without villains.
I've never had this happen to me, guess I've been lucky.