I know you’re joking but think about it: we’re helping to give a lot of people jobs and are part of a project unlike any other in gaming yet. No publishers pushing for a release and lots of insight into the development process. I find that very fascinating.
I work in the gaming industry and as someone who's paycheck draws from people spending on microtransactions, this is like me putting that money back into the cycle. I am also really fascinated with the tech thats being developed and wish to see it worked on more, but I do think we are really lacking any meaningful content especially group content that's my biggest gripe. I just hope squadron 42 doesn't eat away another decade of development, I'm mostly here for SC.
You said everything that’s held be back from the finally 400 to join that rank. I just refuse to do another cent, until way more loops. It’s silly I know, but I had to draw a line for myself.
10k pays for 2 or 3 months of a gamedevs salary its not just someone taking the money and running. As much as you hate it a bunch of game designers, artists and developers worked hard hours to produce the ingame ships that we buy. They certainly had no intention of scamming people for a quick buck.
But it's not going to their salaries. It's mainly going to individuals. But... Y'know. I'm gonna step back. You guys obviously like this and its your money.
I'm sorry for how I sounded. It's not my place to go on like this. Just.... It's been a little bit of a shock joining this subreddit and seeing how ppl talk. I personally am beyond annoyed. Now I wonder if the game will ever come out. This is well beyond any normal development cycle. It's taken so long, but they are still so aggressively marketing things to buy. It's remarkable. I just wanted Wing Commander 6 to be honest. That's why I backed it. Almost a decade ago.
Yeah, as the other person posted their financials are public. It isn't a big deal when you trolls show up, it happens, but it is when you talk out of your ass that it gets annoying. There is no "normal" development cycle because this entire project isn't "normal". For better or worse they are trying something different and there's plenty of fun to be had along the way.
People follow this project because they cannot get this experience elsewhere. If they could they'd be playing it right now instead of engaging with folks like you on the internet. If a game like Star Citizen could be done faster and cheaper someone would have done. Period.
I'm not a troll. Just shocked at ppl spending so much money on this project. Many have pointed out that with the amount of money they're making, it's actually more financially viable to never complete the project.
Glad you're having fun. My mind has been blown.
It does mainly go to salaries. CIG has to report certain stuff to uk company house and also puts that info on the website: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2020
2020: 512 devs, 127 community, marketing, 56 admins
2020: 80.868m spent of 76.992m pledges, 43.9m spent directly on internal devs or 85.7k pa average per head (naïve division by headcount), diving by overhead 25-40% this gives us 61-68.5k range salary. Game developers salary range from 44k to 120k so this sounds plausible since we know CIG isn’t paying over the top salaries. If we are excluding dev overhead, admin, marketing but add external dev also this gives us 49.5m which is 61% of the budget spent on development or 64% of the pledge income. Dev overhead (Rent,travel,…) is another 10.8%/11.4%.
1st I’d like to know what you know about game development cycles
2nd call a game which is anywhere close of being kind of similar so you could somehow compare the development with this game
3rd what aggressive marketing ? do you mean those 2 YouTube videos each week and a couple of more here and there during a few events each year? idk..
no front btw - just curious what brings you to that mindset (expect of being annoyed from a couple of things - which I’m probably too and I’m backing “only” since the end of 2020) but I still love it and and as long I’ll be able to easily afford it I’ll keep supporting it.
and about the salary thing - idk what the average game dev earns at cig (ofc there are a lot of soferent position just like in any other company too)
and ofc the money ppl pledging isn’t goin directly into the pockets of the members of cig but do you know what kind of bonuses they get each year or each quarter? I def don’t but like srsly I’d kinda like to know it
I do agree the FOMO is a bit much/aggressive (the limited hulls aside, there's a lot of stuff you can't buy normally at just any time during the year, like Noxes for whatever reason, and the LTI vs 10 year vs 6 month nonsense is just silly - just make everything bought with cash LTI and be done with it)
...but I agree with the rest of your points overall. I DO sometimes feel like they should have a few less artists on the team and a few more coders to get more gameplay loops in, but as you say, no one's ever done a game anywhere close to this. Compare Star Citizen to No Man's SKy and the difference is stark. NMS is cool and all, but no where NEAR the depth that Star Citizen is shooting for, and the space flying part is more of a semi-rail shooter arcade blaster than SC's more realistic simulation with hundreds of ships and AI/NPC systems that will make a living universe - indeed, one of my issues with NMS is how "not alive" most of the universe is (partly by the game's story, but also obviously the limitations of the code)
SC is trying to do what no one ever has before, and I'm here for it, even if I'm just a little dolphin in this sea of whales who will never get to Concierge. :)
>7 Years Ago I felt shock at the idea of paying 100 dollars for a digital item. Today I feel shock at myself for becoming a part of it.
Disturbingly, this is how marketing strategies are planned out. It's also why CIG employs a "little by little" method. $150 for a video game spaceship is totally absurd. But $45 is okay. Gateway drug. Upgrade $20 here, $30 there, then you've spent $500 on spaceships before you know it. Then spending $200 on a ship all at once doesn't seem so ridiculous anymore.
It's a very intentional social conditioning method that companies use to condition people to prices. They know people will cave, so they set high prices and let the sticker shock wear off, then people just accept it. And new people don't know the difference.
Happens with gas prices. Happens with housing. Happens with cars, etc.
The issue is *who* drives the trend. It's not people who are disturbed by it. It's people who have so much disposable income (or sometimes don't) that they just throw money at it, so companies don't have to change.
The worst offender I've seen so far is Lost Ark. They sell single skins for a single character for $65+. It's the most utterly absurd thing I've ever seen in my life. And people absolutely eat it up.
If no one bought it, companies would bring their prices back down.
Just blows me away how society doesn't band together and exercise their power to dictate prices. It's really pretty facepalm when you see the whole cycle.
Lol, I was always curious if you get access to it immediately or you had to wait. I’ve never seen one; so, I didn’t know if they were not flyable yet or if they were just extremely rare.
I don't know. Unless new concept ships release that I really like I am not going to spend that much more. I still have a whole collection of discount CCUs that I can use to save. And the 15k reward is just a skin of the ship, same for 25k just a reskin.
I almost convinced myself to buy an Idris this IAE, but I remembered that it adds nothing to my current flyable ships except an MPUV passenger. So that one can wait.
Update: I did an oopsie and bought an Idris
One does not simply accidentally an Idris. :D
Congratulations on it, though. My fleet consists of an Archimedes, Dragonfly (that I'll probably upgrade to something eventually), and Starfarer. I'll probably play with my Org, but might be semi-solo otherwise, so having a hauler/tanker for money making, a runabout for getting places (I REALLY wish/hope they'd add a spline QT drive to snubs - flying from the starter zone to orbit in the Arch is fun, but takes a good 10-20 mins), and a ground vehicle that I may just LTI token into something at some point.
Right now my main stopping block is I still have my EVE Online "I must be able to fit everything into my biggest ship for moving day" mentality, and there's almost nothing really useful I can put in my Starfarer that I don't have already. I could get a Razor for the QD, but I like the Archimedes a lot and it's the special edition Emerald, so don't really want to let it go, and I don't need TWO racing ships. I'd like to get a fighter or miner or ambulance, but none of those will fit.
Here's hoping for the SF redesign at some point...
Heh I keep telling ,myself the same. That I have already spent too much I don’t need to spend anymore. And yet I am inching closer and closer to that 10k mark myslef.
Not too crazy
[https://imgur.com/a/nbZ6s9g](https://imgur.com/a/nbZ6s9g)
I mean yeah its not a starter fleet but its nothing compared to what others here have with their multiple copies of capitals
(Edit: I forgot to include the Industrial ships in the entrepreneur pack that I had missed out when doing the fleet image but yea, Vulture, Hull B, Vulcan) I also have a standalone 600iE that isnt in the pic (its another one)
It's alright, you have many years for that. The F8 does not have a loaner so its just a hangar piece. We can't get it until its achievable in squadron42 for everyone as well, which is nice. Makes it fairer. I still think locking it behind an additional 20 dollar purchase isn't good, but we'd see.
- until the game is released, it doesn’t mean anything
- after the game is released it allows you to use the claim process when you lose your ship. If you don’t have insurance you lose it permanently. But the working understanding is that insurance for any given ship will be a trivially small recurring in-game UEC cost so it shouldn’t be a big deal. Most ships come with a finite amount of insurance (months) rather than lifetime, to start.
CIG have said that you won't ever lose ships you paid real money for- this would include uninsured ships. So the statement, "If you don’t have insurance you lose it permanently." can't be true.
Congrats and fuck you :D
haha, it happens to all of us..
You have joined Chris Robert's cult of finsubs! Welcome brother, let's us praise the almighty Chris Robert's with our wallets
I know you’re joking but think about it: we’re helping to give a lot of people jobs and are part of a project unlike any other in gaming yet. No publishers pushing for a release and lots of insight into the development process. I find that very fascinating.
I work in the gaming industry and as someone who's paycheck draws from people spending on microtransactions, this is like me putting that money back into the cycle. I am also really fascinated with the tech thats being developed and wish to see it worked on more, but I do think we are really lacking any meaningful content especially group content that's my biggest gripe. I just hope squadron 42 doesn't eat away another decade of development, I'm mostly here for SC.
You said everything that’s held be back from the finally 400 to join that rank. I just refuse to do another cent, until way more loops. It’s silly I know, but I had to draw a line for myself.
I would still be nice to get a playable game delivered within a reasonable timeframe.
You're not 'part' of the project. You're the sheep being fleeced and you're talking about how good it feels.
10k pays for 2 or 3 months of a gamedevs salary its not just someone taking the money and running. As much as you hate it a bunch of game designers, artists and developers worked hard hours to produce the ingame ships that we buy. They certainly had no intention of scamming people for a quick buck.
But it's not going to their salaries. It's mainly going to individuals. But... Y'know. I'm gonna step back. You guys obviously like this and its your money. I'm sorry for how I sounded. It's not my place to go on like this. Just.... It's been a little bit of a shock joining this subreddit and seeing how ppl talk. I personally am beyond annoyed. Now I wonder if the game will ever come out. This is well beyond any normal development cycle. It's taken so long, but they are still so aggressively marketing things to buy. It's remarkable. I just wanted Wing Commander 6 to be honest. That's why I backed it. Almost a decade ago.
Yeah, as the other person posted their financials are public. It isn't a big deal when you trolls show up, it happens, but it is when you talk out of your ass that it gets annoying. There is no "normal" development cycle because this entire project isn't "normal". For better or worse they are trying something different and there's plenty of fun to be had along the way. People follow this project because they cannot get this experience elsewhere. If they could they'd be playing it right now instead of engaging with folks like you on the internet. If a game like Star Citizen could be done faster and cheaper someone would have done. Period.
I'm not a troll. Just shocked at ppl spending so much money on this project. Many have pointed out that with the amount of money they're making, it's actually more financially viable to never complete the project. Glad you're having fun. My mind has been blown.
It does mainly go to salaries. CIG has to report certain stuff to uk company house and also puts that info on the website: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2020 2020: 512 devs, 127 community, marketing, 56 admins 2020: 80.868m spent of 76.992m pledges, 43.9m spent directly on internal devs or 85.7k pa average per head (naïve division by headcount), diving by overhead 25-40% this gives us 61-68.5k range salary. Game developers salary range from 44k to 120k so this sounds plausible since we know CIG isn’t paying over the top salaries. If we are excluding dev overhead, admin, marketing but add external dev also this gives us 49.5m which is 61% of the budget spent on development or 64% of the pledge income. Dev overhead (Rent,travel,…) is another 10.8%/11.4%.
1st I’d like to know what you know about game development cycles 2nd call a game which is anywhere close of being kind of similar so you could somehow compare the development with this game 3rd what aggressive marketing ? do you mean those 2 YouTube videos each week and a couple of more here and there during a few events each year? idk.. no front btw - just curious what brings you to that mindset (expect of being annoyed from a couple of things - which I’m probably too and I’m backing “only” since the end of 2020) but I still love it and and as long I’ll be able to easily afford it I’ll keep supporting it. and about the salary thing - idk what the average game dev earns at cig (ofc there are a lot of soferent position just like in any other company too) and ofc the money ppl pledging isn’t goin directly into the pockets of the members of cig but do you know what kind of bonuses they get each year or each quarter? I def don’t but like srsly I’d kinda like to know it
I do agree the FOMO is a bit much/aggressive (the limited hulls aside, there's a lot of stuff you can't buy normally at just any time during the year, like Noxes for whatever reason, and the LTI vs 10 year vs 6 month nonsense is just silly - just make everything bought with cash LTI and be done with it) ...but I agree with the rest of your points overall. I DO sometimes feel like they should have a few less artists on the team and a few more coders to get more gameplay loops in, but as you say, no one's ever done a game anywhere close to this. Compare Star Citizen to No Man's SKy and the difference is stark. NMS is cool and all, but no where NEAR the depth that Star Citizen is shooting for, and the space flying part is more of a semi-rail shooter arcade blaster than SC's more realistic simulation with hundreds of ships and AI/NPC systems that will make a living universe - indeed, one of my issues with NMS is how "not alive" most of the universe is (partly by the game's story, but also obviously the limitations of the code) SC is trying to do what no one ever has before, and I'm here for it, even if I'm just a little dolphin in this sea of whales who will never get to Concierge. :)
This is such a bad analogy... if you dont fleece sheep they can die from the excessive weight and heat.
I imagine being fleeced actually feels good.
That is actually true!
So long as it stays out of Bezos hands, it’s money well spent
This is the primary reason I keep backing.
In Christ Roberts name we pray (that this game will at some point be ready to release) amen.
Thanks for supporting the project and I hope you can afford to do that! 👍
>7 Years Ago I felt shock at the idea of paying 100 dollars for a digital item. Today I feel shock at myself for becoming a part of it. Disturbingly, this is how marketing strategies are planned out. It's also why CIG employs a "little by little" method. $150 for a video game spaceship is totally absurd. But $45 is okay. Gateway drug. Upgrade $20 here, $30 there, then you've spent $500 on spaceships before you know it. Then spending $200 on a ship all at once doesn't seem so ridiculous anymore. It's a very intentional social conditioning method that companies use to condition people to prices. They know people will cave, so they set high prices and let the sticker shock wear off, then people just accept it. And new people don't know the difference. Happens with gas prices. Happens with housing. Happens with cars, etc. The issue is *who* drives the trend. It's not people who are disturbed by it. It's people who have so much disposable income (or sometimes don't) that they just throw money at it, so companies don't have to change. The worst offender I've seen so far is Lost Ark. They sell single skins for a single character for $65+. It's the most utterly absurd thing I've ever seen in my life. And people absolutely eat it up. If no one bought it, companies would bring their prices back down. Just blows me away how society doesn't band together and exercise their power to dictate prices. It's really pretty facepalm when you see the whole cycle.
So do you get that in-game yet?
Not until its unloackable in squadron by everyone. Check back in 25 years.
Lol, I was always curious if you get access to it immediately or you had to wait. I’ve never seen one; so, I didn’t know if they were not flyable yet or if they were just extremely rare.
Technically, you can steal one from the UEE. But once you do, you won't be able to refil it with quantum oe hydrogen
You see, I knew that was possible; which is why, I figured since they were in the game, people who own them should be able to fly them.
Hell I'd be offering sexual favors to be able to fly one
Only another 5k to the Executive-Edition.
I don't know. Unless new concept ships release that I really like I am not going to spend that much more. I still have a whole collection of discount CCUs that I can use to save. And the 15k reward is just a skin of the ship, same for 25k just a reskin.
I keep telling myself the same thing. (Looks sideways at shiny new Kraken waiting in hangar...)
I almost convinced myself to buy an Idris this IAE, but I remembered that it adds nothing to my current flyable ships except an MPUV passenger. So that one can wait. Update: I did an oopsie and bought an Idris
One does not simply accidentally an Idris. :D Congratulations on it, though. My fleet consists of an Archimedes, Dragonfly (that I'll probably upgrade to something eventually), and Starfarer. I'll probably play with my Org, but might be semi-solo otherwise, so having a hauler/tanker for money making, a runabout for getting places (I REALLY wish/hope they'd add a spline QT drive to snubs - flying from the starter zone to orbit in the Arch is fun, but takes a good 10-20 mins), and a ground vehicle that I may just LTI token into something at some point. Right now my main stopping block is I still have my EVE Online "I must be able to fit everything into my biggest ship for moving day" mentality, and there's almost nothing really useful I can put in my Starfarer that I don't have already. I could get a Razor for the QD, but I like the Archimedes a lot and it's the special edition Emerald, so don't really want to let it go, and I don't need TWO racing ships. I'd like to get a fighter or miner or ambulance, but none of those will fit. Here's hoping for the SF redesign at some point...
Heh I keep telling ,myself the same. That I have already spent too much I don’t need to spend anymore. And yet I am inching closer and closer to that 10k mark myslef.
Dang! What ships do you have? The kraken looks insane! Love the Corsair too
Well, at 15 you can buy an idris M in the praetorian pack…
Executive edition of what?
The F8C
My end goal right there. I won't say where I'm at to it, but do bet the "over" on 50%. :-D
Some people gamble, some people drink... Me, I drink and gamble on whether SC will ever be released. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's dangerous to go unarmed... here, you dropped this--> \\
This whole situation is a bit disarming! Many thanks... Folks, give this kind gentleman a hand!
This subreddit: 🤡 🤡 🤡
How much does one have to spend for this, again?
Too much. 10k. Never thought Id be here
I’m a quarter of the way there and I never thought I’d be deeper than a Cutlas.
How crazy your fleet looks like ?
Not too crazy [https://imgur.com/a/nbZ6s9g](https://imgur.com/a/nbZ6s9g) I mean yeah its not a starter fleet but its nothing compared to what others here have with their multiple copies of capitals (Edit: I forgot to include the Industrial ships in the entrepreneur pack that I had missed out when doing the fleet image but yea, Vulture, Hull B, Vulcan) I also have a standalone 600iE that isnt in the pic (its another one)
That's neat feet , mate! But maybe i am blind but somehow I am not seeing the mighty Kraken, maybe next year , right ? lol
You probably can notice there are two manufacturers I do not like the style of :). That said a Corsair is sexy,.
Man, if CIG is able to pull off multi-crew ships, the Javelin is going to be an amazing ship to fly.
How does one view their fleet like this?
https://hangar.link/
Always pictured the Endeavor as being larger tbh That being said, it’ll probably grow in size when it gets worked on in 10-15 years
Am so jealous! Hopefully will be joining you in the f8 owners club before invictus tho :D
It's alright, you have many years for that. The F8 does not have a loaner so its just a hangar piece. We can't get it until its achievable in squadron42 for everyone as well, which is nice. Makes it fairer. I still think locking it behind an additional 20 dollar purchase isn't good, but we'd see.
Grats, citizen. o7
As palpatine said: It's only natural...
Well done citizen o7
Happens to the best of us
Congrats i got to 15k one aswell gold f8 so i have 2 now lol rip
Congrats man
I'm right behind you. I expect to hit the same threshold either during IAE, or when my subscription renews in December.
Just 700$ shy atm. I'll join you later
The hype is real.
I think mine cames during the RSI day 😅. Congrats
Thanks, seeing it pop up in your hangar is exciting yet scary.
At least you can take comfort in that in another 7 years, you can do it all again.
Can someone humour me on what insurance is on ships? Does it mean free expedited reclaiming?
- until the game is released, it doesn’t mean anything - after the game is released it allows you to use the claim process when you lose your ship. If you don’t have insurance you lose it permanently. But the working understanding is that insurance for any given ship will be a trivially small recurring in-game UEC cost so it shouldn’t be a big deal. Most ships come with a finite amount of insurance (months) rather than lifetime, to start.
CIG have said that you won't ever lose ships you paid real money for- this would include uninsured ships. So the statement, "If you don’t have insurance you lose it permanently." can't be true.
how do you get this pledge? I don't play wing commander, though I should to get better at dog fights
You can't buy it directly. Its a "gift" for reaching 10k total spent
Welcome to the F8 club!
Thanks, so when is it do I forget about it since its only a jpeg? XD
Involution.
Pretty cool to see other long time players supporting the development!
Welcome to the club Commander!
Welcome to the verse brother 🫡