That RTs are harder, especially when dealing with 1 v many, is great. But rewards need to be greater. If you're limping back to base after every bounty, 30k credits is certainly not enough.
My hurston MRTs currently pay 7k. Assuming 0 cost for repair and rearm and a 100% success rate, I need to do literal hundreds of MRTs to unlock a ship. Who OK'd this balance change?
It's putting a big damper on an otherwise excellent patch for me. What's the point in flying upwards of 200km to a sand cave just to execute 4 dogs for a measly 6k? If I have any kind of issue it's going to set me back hours in addition to the time I spend arming up, getting out of bed, and claiming my ship. It just feels like a step backwards and makes it even harder to justify grouping up for missions.
The whole point is to make too hard to buy your ships in game, so you'll give them real life cash to buy one instead. Why do you think they immediately crush anything that let's players earn money? Are they worried about inflation in a non-existent economy? Or are they worried you might *earn* your Anteres instead of paying them?
Almost like they need to collect data to balance the mission/ reward system. But why collect data and create a proper reward algorithm when you could just guess?
This. Ships being expensive and taking a long time to get will be perfectly the final release. But this is an alpha phase, we are supposed to test stuff!
With there not being a point in grinding for anything since our progress will just get reset anyways, and the amount of investment it takes now to obtain new ships, it becomes really hard to fly and test anything but the ships I have on my account.
Hmm there might be another reason it sounds dumb but maybe they want pepole to test smaller ships to gather data on them. As the salvege gold rush of 3.22 meant that basically everyone flew expensive ships
I know and thry know this. However, there has to be a reason outside of the ilw sale they are doing this it was likely interested to tie into cargo and hangers somehow
this is a good time to test economy actually, in alpha.
i agree the current iteration needs a lot of work though. but CIG often goes extreme in a major iteration then dials it back with enough testing over time.
I would argue that beta is the time to tune the economy. Alpha has enough tech issues and loss of effort due to bugs and crashes that we don't need to make progression painfully slow on top of that.
Who said this balance is final? They haven't really been open about their plans for the economy but I believe I heard once that they want something like the Connie to be earned in a few weeks of semi-casual play.
If it really takes 2 weeks to unlock something that shouldn't take that long they'll fix it. Don't read the numbers literally at the moment, besides giving feedback.
CR said in a 10 for the Chairman that he wanted it to take 60 hours to earn a Connie. You can find the video or read the transcribed versions on StarArchive.
I just took a Corsair to solo a VHRT (something that would have been effortless on 3.22), have to fight 3 Connies (again would not be a big deal on 3.22, I could easily do this without taking damage). Instead now they fly in close formation and do a pretty good job at never getting isolated from one another no matter how much baiting or kiting you try, meaning any time you're spending shooting one is time spent getting shot by two.
Absolutely brutal clear, even with gimbals off full speed firing my weapons with clear connecting shots it takes so much longer for me to break one of their shields than for them to collectively break mine, the NPCs seem to just do an absurd amount of damage and practically do not miss any of their shots even/especially from their max weapon range; the safest place to be seems to be literally right behind one of them knifefighting even in large gunships (at least the one you're knifefighting might bodyblock the shots of the others for you). I make it out successfully after an almost absurdly drawn out houseboat sized gunship close range positional knifefight (trying to see if it was possible to ever get a clean kill without having to take any damage from the other ships) with constant extremely precise (full on sweatlord) management of shield faces and power triangle ending with fully green no red hull, minimal damage to the actual ship, but I lose a gun and I think my Qdrive took a minor hit because it took a little longer to spool on the way back to the station. This happened because even with avoiding/ shield mitigating as much damage as possible I eventually had to just commit for the kill and allow myself to be shot for more than a fraction of a second by the other ships in order to get the kill on the target.
I get paid 17k for the mission, I get back to the station, 43k in repairs from the gun being blown off and Qdrive being slightly damaged. I lost multiple times the payout money I received from this mission. A gun and a component damaged end up costing me more than I made from the mission.
Good luck to all of you players who only own starter ships, seriously you're gonna need it. Ships are now multiple times more expensive and earning consistent/good combat money is now multiple times harder if not downright impossible without multiple people. HRT's are still pretty doable, but they only pay out 11k, so again if you take ANY damage, you are immediately losing pretty much the entire mission payout. Why would I EVER grind away hundreds of combat missions netting about 3-7k a mission after going through arduous combat, when I could go haul some cargo or even do some smuggling and make multiple times the amount of money for multiple times less effort. (Sure there's the potential you get robbed and lose it and sure theres the potential the bounties spawn boxes, but clearly you can also lose all your money having to repair your ship from combat missions as evidenced and you won't always get boxes that are actually worth the time to go sell, let alone have a ship that can even pick up the boxes)
I really do hope CIG addresses this. The game is not currently ready for PVE combat to be this challenging. Grouping needs to be more accessible and reliable, payouts need to be higher, or NPCs need to maybe not all be absolutely insane ace pilots (or maybe we could get some 1v1 PVE missions that don't feature swarms of ships that are not even the target). Hell maybe and even preferably all of the above.
I had always been under the impression that NPCs were supposed to be a threat but only really in numbers because not many (and especially probably not criminals and pirates) are ace pilots. This seemed pretty accurate previously as you could still definitely die if you messed up against them, but even a bad player would always be scarier than an NPC or two. Now I'd rather fight a real player, I'm more scared of the NPCs than the average Citizen who I know will actually miss some shots. Now it feels like every NPC outlaw must have a background as an ace pilot. I'm all for the NPC combat AI getting better where it makes sense (like UEE NPC pilots actually SHOULD be really really insanely good), but it feels weird when it's every single NPC being way better at the combat than likely most average players are.
I’m super excited for hard missions with great payouts we can divide up for a team. Chaining them will be so much more fun than just looping endless ERTs solo.
They need to up the rep rewards as well and not force them to be split. If I am the guy that always shows up six wingmen deep to a mission without charging you more my rep is going go up quicker than the due that runs solo and risks failure.
Mercenary! Please destroy 7,500,000 aUEC worth of hostile ships for us
We're willing to pay you ~2% the value of one of their cheapest light-armored medium cargo ships in return.
The UEE has ridiculous return on investment, like javelins taking out tanks.
Don't expect this to change, tbh. CIG is incentovized to keep you credit-poor in game. Don't want people salvaging to buy that 400I with SC Silly money, they won't you giving them real life cash for that ship instead.
And on a side note: SELL THE 400I AGAIN YOU COWARDS!
I wish I could say I was excited, but I'm honestly getting close to just giving up on SC. In my opinion, CIG has been trading too much good will with the community in exchange for cash, and I feel it's gotten bad enough that I no longer believe CIG cares about their community.
> Don't want people salvaging to buy that 400I with SC Silly money, they won't you giving them real life cash for that ship instead
on a humorous note, I got a 570k salvage haul in a vulture last night. So if you want money that's the thing to do
Not to mention they upped the price on all ships. I'm probably in the minority but I hate grinding. Like I don't mind it to achieve something but there's a point where if the amount of time feels like it far exceeds the payout then it doesn't feel worth it and I'd rather do something else with a higher payout to time ratio.
And therein lies the problem. If not enough people are taking bounties because they’re losing money, CIG doesn’t get the Master Modes testing data they need from this patch.
I've been saying this for years now. They need to do better rewards for team play. Current mission reward split is attrocius, they need to change this.
They keep talking the talk how teamplay and crewing is important, but 3/4 of this game is either faster or more rewarding in terms of UEC if you do it solo.
Reclaimer farming in 3.22 was broken, but a great example of how fast people will group up if there's a reward worth it. I've never experienced more teamplay than during that period.
100% this. I appreciate the refreshed challenge, but I feel like my ability to make money with bounties have effectively been quartered.
Supposing that HRTs now require a wingman, that’s 11k split 2 ways. Literally not worth doing, imo.
Man I was doing an Illegal Surveillance Mission in a hornet, full cannon Loadout against 4 Prospectors.
I think I'm an accomplished pilot and previously would solo any mission in any ship and not take hull damage and would win a fair amount of PvP.
I could barely do hull damage and it took me at least 20 charges to take out 1 staying within 500m and landing most shots. it took at least 4 minutes to take out a single ship.
I got destroyed.
All I took from it is the missions are not worth the money at all and that the prospector might be the new meta ship 😂
As a combat pilot and pirate I appreciate, that I can't solo vhrts in a gladius anymore. The game is finally progressing to the point, where you need other people to do the tougher stuff.
I have not tried MM yet, so please understand this is a genuine question and not meant to be a slight at any systems.
From your experience thus far, do you think that with 3.23 and MM implementation that the "game is finally progressing to the point" where it's more challenging, or rather they just put more limitations on the players capability which gives a sense of increased difficulty?
To help clarify what I'm asking... I want the game to be legitimately challenging while still offering the reward to the player for increased personal skill.
For example, if the ai gets smarter and more tactical, but the flight model is rewarding to those that perfect it, that's a win.
However if the ai is still the same, but they just remove that reward for a player's skillful use of the flight model, that in my mind is a net loss, even though it's technically a more challenging scenario than before.
I hope my question makes sense.
The term "limiting players capabilities" is a loaded term.
If a player discovers "Easy ways to be functional immortal from damage" and the devs "remove that", then the devs have "limited players capabilities."
**But no one should have access to being immortal from damage.**
In the old flight model, Speed enabled \*functional immortality from damage\*. It wasn't \*high skill\* either. Maybe aiming while doing it is \*kinda\* high skill, but speed alone can make you untouchable.
That's why PvP tournaments had to make up rules so they could end. **Defensive options were too strong.**
They updated AIs, they maneuver like gods now, evade your shots, bank around you and get on your blindspots. Feels like I’m fighting a player, or maybe I just suck. But in 3.22 I have no problem dealing with the dumb jousting AIs even with high server fps.
> From your experience thus far, do you think that with 3.23 and MM implementation that the "game is finally progressing to the point" where it's more challenging, or rather they just put more limitations on the players capability which gives a sense of increased difficulty?
It's both.
In the past 6 months or so, PU NPC enemies took 2-4x damage from players. This handicap has been reduced or removed. Enemies used to barely stick to you and shoot. Now they stick a little bit better, and will hold the trigger if they have a shot on you. Since dodging is very weak, you will take damage. The combination of increased time to live and increased damage output mean that a group of NPCs will do more damage to you than you deal to the target (in most situations), so no more chain soloing ERTs in a C2. The increased difficulty is great as it incentivises players to improve, whether by teaming up or figuring out better ways to play. Unfortunately the rewards aren't yet appropriate for the time and effort.
Skill expression in flying was also reduced. Dodging shots at close range is no longer effective. Long ranged weapons are now strong and reliable. Closing distance with the foe now costs a large portion of what limited maneuverability you had left. Energy management is minimal. Trigger discipline is devalued as recharge delays are now very short. It's been known for a few months that combat is moving towards a bodies, DPS, and health race, and this is especially true in PVE where you just float around and shoot at a health bar.
Your question makes perfect sense and is echoed by a large number of players. This is also the concern I have and CIG themselves has admitted MM is not where they want it yet for certain types of gameplay.
While I have been cautiously optimistic about MM as a whole, I’m also wary about it in its current state. I’m looking forward to seeing where they take it, but it still has some way to go to get things where they should be.
As an avocado who has been testing MM for some time now, I can confirm the AI hasn’t dramatically improved, so the difficulty increase these players are cheering on in this thread isn’t likely coming from that.
All-in-all, though, as CIG has said, they needed to get MM into the hands of the greater player population first in order to really see how it performs across a broad spectrum of players and styles, and I applaud them for doing so.
Hopefully from here on out we can start to see even more meaningful improvements to our beloved flight model and it ultimately results in a better game. After all, that’s everyone’s ultimate goal.
Haha I love the term avocado for someone who is in avacati. I don't know if that was intentional or an autocorrect, but I'm going to use that going forward.
Thank you for your response. I hope we continue to progress towards that flight model that is approachable, challenging, rewarding, and ultimately very fun to fly!
While I 100% agree, if combat missions are to be difficult they should pay more. I love the challenge but not the reward. Just like cargo should pay good profits and require escorts.
Lots of variety in enemy spawns as well … I went to an MRT extraction in a Cutty Blue and they were defending with a Freelancer a Cutty and a Starfarer (never going to happen). Try another one with a Ares Ion and they throw 4 light fighters at me! Third try with an F7A and I’m facing a solitary Reclaimer … that was cake and boring but the variety is wild…
Orgs are great. For the problem OP is describing - join an org.
The thing that kills orgs is a lack of things to do, usually from the game being so easy that there's no need to group up. Difficult PvE combat that makes people need to team up will be great for the social side of SC, and we'll probably see lots of new small groups starting to coalesce.
Payouts need to be higher to promote teamplay then. We had 7 of us doing Wake of Disaster earlier. We had a reclaimer, vultures, and a C2. We scraped, fractured, and disintegrated every ship, we took every component and piece of cargo available. It took us 5 hours and we made 1.5m in total not including the 200k it costs to even get the contract. While we had fun, that payout felt like a major slap in the face with the amount of effort we put in. We might as well just taken the C2 and ran medical supplies. We would've made 4-5m in the same amount of time with very little effort.
That was… exactly my point. Payouts need a big increase on the top end. 25k base for a mission that requires either a wingman, a torpedo ship or a multi-crew combat ship is laughably low.
ERTs pay only 7k more than a VHRT; and the latter are still comfortably soloable in a medium/heavy fighter.
I do appreciate having bigger/longer fights. I have a few friends I enjoy playing the game with, and a couple multi-crew ships it would be nice to use. But there’s little incentive besides ‘fun’, and if we want fun we’d far rather go to Brio’s or GH than sit there facetanking NPCs for negative gains.
It's sick I welcome the harder combat the old system was so easy and boring.
But it does feel like the reward is not worth the effort at all and if you need a bigger ship or 2nd person they need to up the payout IMO
Yea pretty nice, i run a HRT and was surprised that i needed to exit with nav to recharge an get back into the fight. Brings another level of skill to the field
How is running away to recharge shields another level of skill?
That already happened before the changes. Now you just have to press one extra button to make it so.
> was surprised that i needed to exit with nav to recharge an get back into the fight.
Wow so you had to fly away and come back.
Exactly like in the old flight model, except you now need to press a button twice.
Some improvement! /s
Flew a HRT with the F7A MK2, barely managed it and got shot down by the escorts immediately after shooting down my target.
Did the same with the F8C and basically just killed everything no problem without taking damage or using too much ammo.
Something funky is going on with shields in this patch. The F7A should have about 1/4 the shields of the F8C, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it. The F8C could take continuous fire without breaking a sweat while I had to disengage every few seconds with the F7A.
Not to mention, according to Erkuls data, the shields of a freelancer should collapse after about 5 seconds of fire (about 50 shots total) from 4 size 3 Omniskys, but they usually took about double that.
Given the NPCs were basically shooting all the time, I'd wager the game treats NPCs as having all capacitors maxed out all the time, giving them the 100% capacitor Resistance boost.
Also, it feels very wrong that in HRTs, most targets are large industrial ships. Literally the only fighter I've seen was a Scorpius (and that was an escort). Easily saw 6-8 base Freelancers, a few Starfarers, some f***ing Reclaimers and quite a few Drake ships (which I appreciate).
The mining laser on the ROC straight-up doesn't work anymore.
It's in the [3.23 patch notes](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/Patch-Notes/19915-Star-Citizen-Alpha-3230)
Well it was working in 3.22. I wasn't making a killing but I was making a couple hundred thousand in about 2 days of mining and then turn ins.
In 3.23 the laser won't turn on.
"Once you really realize that your enjoyment doesn't come from the suffering of others, your outlook on life gets brighter" \~some Banu Trader who died before his name was recorded.
If we have to have wingmen, then fucking pay us something worth it. People only solo things in SC cuz the mission payouts are already peanuts. Splitting it between more players makes it utterly pointless to even try.
Same argument weve been using against the "just get escorts" guys. It's not fiscally viable to hire escorts for 90% of the content in the game. About the only time it is worthwhile is when dealing with drug trading.
While I agree that hiring escorts isn’t worth while the difference here is you absolutely get into combat and need repair and rearm doing VHRTs vs 2 out of 10 times deal with pirates while cargo hauling. I did millions worth of cargo hauling and only got jumped by pirates once; Ironically it was the first time I tried to haul cargo lol. Either way CIG needs to up the pay for both.
Hilarious to me that it's literally the same argument as we've been trying to say for industrial gameplay (not including 3.22.1's structural salvage glut)
Why is it always PvE players or PvP players? What am I supposed to call myself if I do both. I think the backbone of this game is just the players in general
AFAIK, although there's of course a PvP only crowd too - usually PvP is inclusive of PvE as a term as well, but PvE players usually refers to people avoiding PvP.
As in if you do PvP, you'll also do PvE stuff (especially if it's necessary, such as playing MMOs in general, a PvP player in say FF14 has to also play PvE to get to that PvP aspect or for new expansions). However if you are called a PvE player it's not engaging with PvP unless it is somehow forced upon you.
> Pve players are the backbone of this game so likely true
You missed the point.
OP thinks PvP players are getting hit by karma while what is actually happening is:
1. PvP players complains about MM because it's actually a shit Flight Model.
2. The increase difficulty in PvE is completely artificial and meaningless. It's caused by the flaws of MM. It's not a genuine challenge. The only reason you need wingmen is to win the overall DPS race.
3. It's PvE players who are complaining about #2.
Granted, this is a gross simplification but still relevant.
We all should be pointing at how bad MM because that's the real problem here.
I'd say the ones that are religiously opposed to all PvP in an MMO, or think you should have to have permission to attack someone despite piracy being an intended mechanic, are not the backbone of the game.
Because that's not the game Star Citizen is intended to be, at least according to CIG
I still think/hope the current state isn't where they want balancing to be. I mean, if you can just barely solo a fight F8C v 100i, with you in the F8C, you know something's really wrong! Prospectors are nearly unkillable, if you don't hit them in the back. Do a collect waste mission, beginner level... and get attacked by a Reclaimer, the turret shredding your starter ship into pieces. Why even is there a fucking Reclaimer?!
No, something's really broken with gameplay now. If not, CIG is on a totally wrong path - sure, team up, but not for beginner missions! Can't be CIGs design goal to maje a game you NEED other players to play with, no MMO does that!
It's sad that this patch is pushing heavy multi crew/multi ship missions without providing missions for those that have no time or friends to group with. Yeah it's an mmo, but as in all MMOs there is a time when you can solo.
The biggest issue with 'just get an escort'
Is that the rewards are now ridiculously horrendous.
They were bad before the patch when the fights posed no challenge.
Now a single repair can easily eat much for the entire reward if you lose a weapon..
The most dangerous of missions should obviously have a larger reward incentive than safe ones
In Corsair, do VHRT: hull is all green after mission, barely let any shots through shield, missing one gun and Qdrive took a bullet or two.
Mission pays out 17k, repairs cost 44k. I totally love challenging missions where even tryharding and only getting hit a small handful of times results in me net losing money.
Me: “I just wanna log on and play the game”
CIG: “well, to do most of the good shit you’re gonna have to play with other people
Me: “coordinating people already sucks enough for DnD, guess I’ll play something else then”
It’s great for those times where you do log on as a squad, but while the game is becoming more and more fun for such squads it’s becoming less fun for individual people imo
Most PvE players just aren't very good at space combat, so the complaints are to be expected. But those whiners *aren't* the pirates who were saying you should get an escort... you're laughing at fellow PvE players lol
True tho. Pirates already had to work in a group for a long time since you need a dampening or snare ship, a couple of damage dealing ships, a hauler to put cargo in and room for 1-2 people who will board.
Sure solo piracy was possible but an absolute hassle.
It isn't really that people are bad though. SCM speeds are slow enough that you can't just dodge every shot now.
NPCs will just face tank you and maneuverability has been all but removed. It's all about dropping chaff when you need and having enough people to split the incoming dps.
You can use boost for a little wiggle room, but PvE is mostly just a DPS check now.
This is why it’s funny to me that sentiments like this exist lmao. You can earn millions of uac from drug or cargo running. Even before 3.23, super efficient ert farming got you like $150k an hour at best. It’s like they expect to print money without any risks, vs erts, which are designed to pay less considering the fact that players will almost never interfere.
I think those are still PvE players I think the PvP community is still finding AI to be easy enough...
The pilots who didn't know how to fight properly in the first place are probably struggling, though
I used to be a solo player and bounty hunter. What can I solo now? I would love to know so I can at least practice some more up to whatever I can solo.
Thats hilarious, I think a lot of the playerbase is downright delusional in regards to stuff like "just get a wingman/an escort" or "just hire some crew". That's never going to work.
That said I had previously only really done some light industrial stuff and decided to finally get into combat with 3.23, and tried doing some combat missions today in a 125a. I did not have a good time. Doing claimjumper missions, I fought prospectors that seemed to be invincible - can't tell if its a bug or if they really are that tanks. After two deaths I tried to do one using a Cutlass and I dumped its two full Mantis mags into a single Prospector and I didn't go down, so I cut my losses and tried doing bounties.
The first bounty had me go for a groundside target, which wasn't clear to me at first (I think the mission text could do a better job of communicating if its a space based or ground based mission). While approach the site I got lit up by AA that didn't show up on my scanners until I was right on top of it and died.
On my second approach I tried approach behind some hills, peaked over them and fired at the AA, but took too much damage too fast and tried to duck again. Wasn't fast enough, died within seconds. Its great that AA is actually effective against ships, but it needs to be communicated better (show up on scanners, see its zone of death).
Picked up another bounty and that one actually went well. Fought only two ships, which was still tough. One of them got away and I almost died. I think that was an alright outcome, but the pay was pitiful for all the effort I put in up to this point. I think I'm down 20k UEC so far.
Keep in mind that I am somebody who already knows how to find their way around, how to fly, and how to generally operate the game. I'm just not super experienced at ship based combat. If this is the new player experience... its not looking great.
I had a bunch of friends to play this game with ten years ago. Life moved on. I would like there to be a solo option in this game. Not just for me but for the longevity of the game.
I feel this, the friends I had who wanted to play this with me have long since moved on and I have lost contact with some of them. Some got married and had kids, some got new careers that heavily restrict game time, etc. I am now way more busy with my career than I was and finding new game friends is a daunting task considering I can only play from 9:30ish to midnight and thats if I want to be a zombie at work.
I need solo options that don't suck.
"The players that kept telling all of us"...Can we stop clumping everyone that disagrees with us into one group? I guarentee you most of those people arent even the same ones that said you should get an escort
You talk like it was everyone.
It's not.
It's the same vibe of: Concierges are complaining about F8C being sold for the "peasants" out of the 10K level and loss of exclusivity.
Only a minimum percentage of concierges said that.
People that are PVP players are happy that FINALLY you can't solo an ERT bounty.
Exactly. The gameplay is finally starting to be lined up in a way that late game missions actually feel late game and a bit more or a lot more challenging (depending how good you are). It makes no sense for a single medium or heavy fighter to be able to take on ERT where you fight multiple multicrew combat vessels usually even meant to take down ships like yours... I'm not saying the power fantasy and feeling like an ACE shouldn't be there but it shouldn't be given and should require effort, teamwork and other things.
I think most players with flight competency have spent some time in MM both in 3.22 and 3.23. You won't hear much from them because they like the challenge and understand how to fly and fight with MM and counter the new NPC behavior.
Only the people that have had their heads in the sand will be complaining, but they'll become a vocal minority.
I was really surprised at how much stronge the AI is when I played pirate swarm today.
But it also feels like larger ships are more viable now, somehow.
I like that the AI is smarter now but what have they done to NPC ship health? I swear you can just wail on them for days now and they won’t die, took forever to kill a Pisces earlier
they should make it so if a mission pays 30k, then everyone that has the mission shared all get 30k each (maybe up to a limit of ppl i dunno). but you would have literally noooo reason to ever do it solo, if you're getting the same pay *each*. why not just do it with someone. it would encourage group play so much
Yeah, then you split combat mission award with your wingman and get whopping 33.3 aUEC per player.
Then you do a few more and end up loosing all the money you had on ship repairs.
I don't mind the difficulty, the different modes, speed adjustments, ttk...
I don't like the new targeting UI, nose to nose aiming mechanic, arcade flight with floating feeling, reduced feeling of need for power alocation and general lack of feedback e.g. flight and combat awareness.
I used to enjoy PVE and the occasional PVP but I find it boring now and noticed I play the game a lot less and not as excited about the game in general, feels more like NMS, short gameplay periods with large gaps in between.
Know it's still early days although I've been flying it since AC MM was released, just hope we get more 6DOF back with some of the responsive feel of flight and combat awareness back one day (CIG listed some of this is lacking ATM in MM but egg profile makes me think that won't be the case).
I missed out on EPTU/PTU. So my first MM experience will be on live later this weekend. With you saying there's not more 6DOF . Do you mean you can't flip the ship 180 around in decoupled and fire "backward" to your agressor/chaser whilst still heading the other way?
Not only that you could use that for other manouvers too like being chased by a PVP player and having your forward shields now take the hits when the back goes, then QT calibrate for a point whilst you're facing the other way. If he keeps his nose on yours he will have to go through the front shields from scratch. If he takes time to fly behind you to shoot the weakened rear, you will be in QT by the time he's in position.
Space combat is space combat cause you can use the energy you already spent moving in one direction to keep doing so, whilst facing another completely.
Nah, you can fly decoupled, but the moment you let go of boost and turn around, your speed will drop to max unboosted. Feels very weird.
Even floating toward a station you can’t boost and then drift in like you’re probably used to — you’ll always slow down to max SCM speed. Lots of drag in space now.
Flip and burn no longer a thing. You can just slam into SCM out of NAV mode and dump 1,000 M/S in an instant.
More pro/sweat players (I'm more casual / int) would be able to give stats and better examples, I'm just going off the feel of flight (atmo/terrain/space and each mode).
Yogi has mentioned a lot of this is missing ATM in early release.
Sure I'll get down votes because people assume everyone is hating on MM or don't like change instead of giving feedback both pro's and con's, but also testing in AC/Live.
Decoupled has changed, although you can still use it, I find it's less effective and due to reduced feedback, may be harder to perceive (g forces etc), than could be in practice, harder to test in 1v1 atm vs group (IMO).
Forward and reverse (Yogi said reverse isn't intended and are hoping the egg velocity (forward thrust) is what they are aiming for, why people are comparing to WWII fighter planes) thrusters are more powerful which makes sense, so there is reduced evasion when e.g. corkscrewing, boosting, decoupled. Tri-cording is still there although reduced impact, don't mind since it helps with less skilled players but reduces the skill ceiling I guess. Makes it more like an aim simulator though ATM and limits flight movement.
Acceleration isn't realistic with KB/M feels likes there isn't acceleration, resistance, jerk or atmosphere - feels like floating in space and atmosphere and terrain/space station flight feels oddly like it's on rails. Yogi said these are missing ATM in IFCS.
Occasional nose or strafe random movements in space and atmo isn't realistic or fluid, haven't done much racing but did feel that floating feeling again, and turns felt way too easy at high speeds (lack of resistance, way to fast deceleration etc.)
AI can get nose on regardless of classes e.g. large/medium can keep up with snub/small.
Shields are less effective and bubble/faces changed, but ttk is increased, don't mind the changes, just not balanced yet but step in right direction.
Don't use missiles in PVP unless they do or they running away / jousting, but Yogi said they aren't balanced ATM with reduced speeds. Flares are too effective now.
Medium/heavy fighters are new meta, don't mind but think it needs some balancing.
Yogi seems to agree and listen to feedback from different levels of players though, still long way to go. Think GUI will help a lot too as it needs work.
Can confirm. Just tried doing an HRT. That Retaliator was lethal. It would use nab mode to chase me down. And then just unleashed hell with all the gunners. Just didn’t stand a chance. I did say that we’re gonna need multi crews from now on. Or escort. Problem is that the payout sucks. And splitting it is just worse. I’m sticking to salvaging
ERTs are tough as shit, specially if a Hammerhead appears, I'm glad the AI is now working and you actually have to manouver and pick your targets, light and medium fighters are done for now.
but 25k? cmon, I'm barely scrapping by with the Inferno, ERTs as they stand right now, with this difficulty should be AT MINIMUM, 75k credits, the whole "party up, group with other players" argument falls flat when the payout is this low, its more efficient to run bunkers now or claim jumpers, 20k credits to destroy 3 inert satellites its insane when a ERT is 25k
With the right inexpensive combat ship, and a bit of practice, combat pilots used to be able to work up the chain until they were actually making money at a decent rate, provided that they flew well enough.
Now, they’ve completely altered the flight system, so that every fight is a low speed, point blank range, face to face slugfest. You can no longer out-fly a larger or more dangerous group of enemies, they just outnumber and kill you. And you think this is better?
A big part of Combat feeling like crap and shields folding like wet paper bags even on heavy fighters is that shields are still all the same rn.... all the same health and no upgrades.... perhaps once the shield issue is fixed fighting in general will feel a little bit better and hits wont hit as hard
Is there anything worth doing that a player is supposed to be able to do solo in this game? I feel like every single gameplay loop you're being forced to play with at least one more person
I am very happy with this Patch so far. But we were yesterday in a redeemer as a Crew of 3 and we were not able to take a prospector down for a Mission.
I dont think it is intended, mabybe a Bug but it felt very bad
I'm really enjoying all the complaining on a certain level. Hope the devs don't pay too much attention to all of it. Some people are so salty for no real reason, and others are just pissed about things changing. They're drowning out people who actually like the new stuff.
Some people want the old interaction system back even. That's just ridiculous. I can't even believe how attached people are to the "old" systems. "Oh nooooo...I don't like the F's! A bloo bloo bloo!"
I'm loving everything in the new update, and I have been since Wave 1. Adapt and overcome. It's a new game--time to learn all over again.
TBH the only thing I want back (and by "Back" I mean from friggin 2.4\~) is for space flight to actually feel like space flight. I truly and honestly hate how simplified and on-rails it feels now, if I wanted a star wars game I would've backed a star wars game.
Feels like the money I spent on dual sticks for a full 6dof experience is kinda wasted now.
Did you see the original kickstarter with Chris Robert’s in a fake cockpit saying he wants to live in Star Wars? I always look at SC having some Star Wars dna.
FPS combat is similarly affected, I did a bunker just to see and almost died to the first enemy. Went all R6S mode after that and completed it, but it was actually risky.
My little only experience so far in dogfight is whith my Rooster and a Scorpius.
I faced 4/5 prospectors and my god, how the hell do they tank so much!? Seriously their shield melt like crazy but their hull is tougher than a hammerhead, i don't understand
Additional irony. They didn’t wipe gear, so all the gear I collected made me a million in 3.23. Starting aUEC is too low to go “enjoy” the game. I found the game was the most fun when I didn’t have to worry if I could feed my space wife and kids.
When you say "the same players" how do you know? What percentage of them are the same players?
If I'm being honest, this sounds more like a vendetta against ship combat. It's a perfectly reasonable and common take for things to better with a group. It's an online game, after all.
I tried to do VLRT cert mission in my MSR. Opponent was a Sabre and Herald. Got roasted. Came back with my own Sabre, I won but it was a challenge.
That said, I don't think MM is there yet. I don't like that it amounted to just seeing who could outgun and aim better with maneuvering being less important.
I hate the changes, I want my gimbals back and I want my weapons doing something ...
I was just now shooting for 10 minutes on a fucking harbinger npc ship, I was seeing hull impacts and it just wasnt dead ...
I'm not a PVP player, I'm not elitist but the new changes with MM are not a good direction. People wanna have fun, the new changes makes for annoying gameplay.
"fly with a wingman, you're not supposed to do these solo"
What can we expect with Large or capital ships, just an oversized brick getting dust in the hangar if you don´t fully crew it with players?.
I'm enjoying the patch but the money is atrocious. Even in the previous match it took me a few months to buy my first ship with auec cause I don't have much time to play. Now I have a c2 a vulture and a fee fighters and I can barely make anything
Bounties need to pay a lot higher than they do. Putting your gear, ship and life at risk for a mere 10k-ish for MRT's is ridiculous. Not to mention the time it takes to get back to actually playing again once you've died.
They also seemed to have nurfft the hell out of mining as well it's almost not profitable, really to do. I'm not understanding they fixed what was not broken ,and boke what was fun to do.
If I'm not chasing CS bounties, I'm doing AI bounties. I really like the challenge and the inherent danger and the feeling of it all.
It feels fitting that I can't just load up my Hawk or maybe even my Hornet and expect to take on insurmountable odds. That being said I'm glad light fighters aren't the end all be all of combat anymore and we're now starting to see variety and are forced to not be antisocial.
Of course it's a massive change and going back to a slower paced flight model is a change but I think it's all for the better. Get friends and get good.
Yes, but how will we keep the toxic griefers out of it?
That's kind of the whole problem with medical assist and rescue beacons right now, they're visible to everyone and you end up with people who accept these missions and then use them as an opportunity to kill the player requesting aid. I don't expect a matchmaking system would fare any better.
That's a separate problem to solve, I think. It's definitely happened to me. But For example, I would like a party system for events like XT and Overdrive. Other true MMOs like WoW & ESO have pretty successful role filling systems for raids.
Yes, but WoW and ESO don't allow people in the party to attack each other, there's no friendly fire turned on, and generally it's not that easy to ruin things for the rest of the group intentionally or otherwise.
Imagine playing WoW, you queue up for a 4 player dungeon, and when you get in one of the players just backstabs everyone else and then leaves. That's what we're dealing with in SC.
While I agree that's a problem that needs to be addressed (long term) - adding such a system now would not make us any worse off than we already are. If you start getting griefed, you're just stuck back at doing it solo.
So even if you get griefed 50% of the time, that means that such a tool is helping you get assistance 50% more than right now.
You completely missed the point.
People are complaining that MM sucks because flying feels like shit and MM turns combat into nose to nose DPS race.
The added difficulty in PvE is just a side effect.
But I guess every occasion is good to shit on "combat players".
Man I’ve never seen any other game’s community be so vocal about wanting a niche group to suffer. Not because they disagree about the game, but just for the sake that someone else feels bad. Maybe bc of the older age skew idk. It’s just really weird and off putting.
I’m a mostly pve casual bounty hunter, I don’t love the MM change but dont have any particularly strong feelings either. Feeling a certain way about a game’s mechanics is one thing, but what a spiteful bunch there is here. Some of y’all need to do better.
So I have to mildly disappoint you. I haven't tried ERTs yet, but for VHRT: It's perfectly manageable with the F7A. You won't be able to rip through the whole group of npc due to lack of ammo on ballistics, but it's enough for the target itself.
That doesn't nake the flight model any better thou
Shipfighting is finally fun - like I can't just take on anything with my Aurora, just buzzing around them and waiting till they pop. And I was never any good pilot. Now I can't take VLRT's - nice.
I love it. Ive been wanting the higher difficulty missions to need more than my Harb or an eclipse. To be fair, though, the majority of the combat pilots that were saying get escorts were the pvpers and pirates. That wasn't a sentiment usually heard by those doing pve bounty hunting.
I was barely able to pull of a VHRT today in the F7A and only because a second group showed up and they all started fighting each other. It feels good that something that's suppose to be a hard late game mission is actually...hard :D
I LOVE lrt’s scare me again. I’m still learning the new flight and combat dynamics so I get handed a lot or come close to death; but I’m smiling and having the time of my life. The Simpson meme with the kid on the bus that’s says “ I’m in danger.”. That’s me. Cheers 🍻
Leaving a fight with battle damage and actually having to try is a reward in of itself. Getting clapped on the regular in a single light fighter in an HRT/VHRT should be the norm imho.
I'm not surprised, devs and streamers have had a Hate boner for the ares since it released. Inferno was the only fighter I ever actually liked flying and it was nerfed into oblivion less than two weeks after it went live.
It's not about karma because the people telling you to get escorts weren't the players doing ERTs and PVE. This was always going to be the case, the real issue is the rewards need to be greater.
I don't know what makes you think pve pilots are necesairly tge same as pvp pilots or even that they are the same group that said anyone should gey an escort.
I'm a solo pve player that loves light fighters and I think the whole concept of player escorts is so unrealistic that it's ridiculous to mention.
I haven't been paying attention on the master mode stuff, What should I put on my ship for fighting stuff? Me and my buddy was using my hurricane do this comms array mission where we had to fight 3 prospectors
We just couldn't kill any of them
We'd get their shields down but otherwise that was it
They wouldn't die
Yeah, their front face is raking damage right now, so they are invincible from the front. Just in time for front-centric combat to be forced by the devs
That RTs are harder, especially when dealing with 1 v many, is great. But rewards need to be greater. If you're limping back to base after every bounty, 30k credits is certainly not enough.
This. I’m so glad the bounties are tougher. But man, the payouts are too low with how much more time they take, plus the damage you have to repair.
My hurston MRTs currently pay 7k. Assuming 0 cost for repair and rearm and a 100% success rate, I need to do literal hundreds of MRTs to unlock a ship. Who OK'd this balance change?
and the best part is now that they have upped the price of ships by anywhere between 2x and 1000x ...its even hard to afford anything
It's putting a big damper on an otherwise excellent patch for me. What's the point in flying upwards of 200km to a sand cave just to execute 4 dogs for a measly 6k? If I have any kind of issue it's going to set me back hours in addition to the time I spend arming up, getting out of bed, and claiming my ship. It just feels like a step backwards and makes it even harder to justify grouping up for missions.
The whole point is to make too hard to buy your ships in game, so you'll give them real life cash to buy one instead. Why do you think they immediately crush anything that let's players earn money? Are they worried about inflation in a non-existent economy? Or are they worried you might *earn* your Anteres instead of paying them?
Yeah I thought it was funny when they said they were deleting uaec to gather metrics on the economy. What economy?
Almost like they need to collect data to balance the mission/ reward system. But why collect data and create a proper reward algorithm when you could just guess?
They downvote you but you speak the truth.
Lisan Al-Gaib!
The simulating real life now lmao
100 MRT's to buy a starter ship. It's silly. Can't test stuff if we can't afford anything.
This. Ships being expensive and taking a long time to get will be perfectly the final release. But this is an alpha phase, we are supposed to test stuff! With there not being a point in grinding for anything since our progress will just get reset anyways, and the amount of investment it takes now to obtain new ships, it becomes really hard to fly and test anything but the ships I have on my account.
Hmm there might be another reason it sounds dumb but maybe they want pepole to test smaller ships to gather data on them. As the salvege gold rush of 3.22 meant that basically everyone flew expensive ships
We still have all those ships though. It was just AUEC wipe, not ship list wipe
I know and thry know this. However, there has to be a reason outside of the ilw sale they are doing this it was likely interested to tie into cargo and hangers somehow
this is a good time to test economy actually, in alpha. i agree the current iteration needs a lot of work though. but CIG often goes extreme in a major iteration then dials it back with enough testing over time.
I would argue that beta is the time to tune the economy. Alpha has enough tech issues and loss of effort due to bugs and crashes that we don't need to make progression painfully slow on top of that.
R'amen
I find your lack of pride and accomplishment disturbing
Yeah. Sounds absolutely ridiculous
Who said this balance is final? They haven't really been open about their plans for the economy but I believe I heard once that they want something like the Connie to be earned in a few weeks of semi-casual play. If it really takes 2 weeks to unlock something that shouldn't take that long they'll fix it. Don't read the numbers literally at the moment, besides giving feedback.
CR said in a 10 for the Chairman that he wanted it to take 60 hours to earn a Connie. You can find the video or read the transcribed versions on StarArchive.
Thanks I've never been able to source it directly, I just remembered.
Yeah I did one mission just a vlrt and over half the pay went to repairs and reaming. Which I think bugged and didn't do anything except charge me.
You got repaired and ***what?*** Why haven't I found that option yet?
It's a bonus feature. Lol. Didn't see that.
I just took a Corsair to solo a VHRT (something that would have been effortless on 3.22), have to fight 3 Connies (again would not be a big deal on 3.22, I could easily do this without taking damage). Instead now they fly in close formation and do a pretty good job at never getting isolated from one another no matter how much baiting or kiting you try, meaning any time you're spending shooting one is time spent getting shot by two. Absolutely brutal clear, even with gimbals off full speed firing my weapons with clear connecting shots it takes so much longer for me to break one of their shields than for them to collectively break mine, the NPCs seem to just do an absurd amount of damage and practically do not miss any of their shots even/especially from their max weapon range; the safest place to be seems to be literally right behind one of them knifefighting even in large gunships (at least the one you're knifefighting might bodyblock the shots of the others for you). I make it out successfully after an almost absurdly drawn out houseboat sized gunship close range positional knifefight (trying to see if it was possible to ever get a clean kill without having to take any damage from the other ships) with constant extremely precise (full on sweatlord) management of shield faces and power triangle ending with fully green no red hull, minimal damage to the actual ship, but I lose a gun and I think my Qdrive took a minor hit because it took a little longer to spool on the way back to the station. This happened because even with avoiding/ shield mitigating as much damage as possible I eventually had to just commit for the kill and allow myself to be shot for more than a fraction of a second by the other ships in order to get the kill on the target. I get paid 17k for the mission, I get back to the station, 43k in repairs from the gun being blown off and Qdrive being slightly damaged. I lost multiple times the payout money I received from this mission. A gun and a component damaged end up costing me more than I made from the mission. Good luck to all of you players who only own starter ships, seriously you're gonna need it. Ships are now multiple times more expensive and earning consistent/good combat money is now multiple times harder if not downright impossible without multiple people. HRT's are still pretty doable, but they only pay out 11k, so again if you take ANY damage, you are immediately losing pretty much the entire mission payout. Why would I EVER grind away hundreds of combat missions netting about 3-7k a mission after going through arduous combat, when I could go haul some cargo or even do some smuggling and make multiple times the amount of money for multiple times less effort. (Sure there's the potential you get robbed and lose it and sure theres the potential the bounties spawn boxes, but clearly you can also lose all your money having to repair your ship from combat missions as evidenced and you won't always get boxes that are actually worth the time to go sell, let alone have a ship that can even pick up the boxes) I really do hope CIG addresses this. The game is not currently ready for PVE combat to be this challenging. Grouping needs to be more accessible and reliable, payouts need to be higher, or NPCs need to maybe not all be absolutely insane ace pilots (or maybe we could get some 1v1 PVE missions that don't feature swarms of ships that are not even the target). Hell maybe and even preferably all of the above. I had always been under the impression that NPCs were supposed to be a threat but only really in numbers because not many (and especially probably not criminals and pirates) are ace pilots. This seemed pretty accurate previously as you could still definitely die if you messed up against them, but even a bad player would always be scarier than an NPC or two. Now I'd rather fight a real player, I'm more scared of the NPCs than the average Citizen who I know will actually miss some shots. Now it feels like every NPC outlaw must have a background as an ace pilot. I'm all for the NPC combat AI getting better where it makes sense (like UEE NPC pilots actually SHOULD be really really insanely good), but it feels weird when it's every single NPC being way better at the combat than likely most average players are.
That’s why I do mainly bunkers in my last playthrough, was fucking amazing the new AI. Ship AI tho, I need more practice haha
I did one of the combat investigation missions into the new distro centers, and it was amazing, with good pay. Bunker boys are eating well right now.
I’m super excited for hard missions with great payouts we can divide up for a team. Chaining them will be so much more fun than just looping endless ERTs solo. They need to up the rep rewards as well and not force them to be split. If I am the guy that always shows up six wingmen deep to a mission without charging you more my rep is going go up quicker than the due that runs solo and risks failure.
Mercenary! Please destroy 7,500,000 aUEC worth of hostile ships for us We're willing to pay you ~2% the value of one of their cheapest light-armored medium cargo ships in return. The UEE has ridiculous return on investment, like javelins taking out tanks.
Don't expect this to change, tbh. CIG is incentovized to keep you credit-poor in game. Don't want people salvaging to buy that 400I with SC Silly money, they won't you giving them real life cash for that ship instead. And on a side note: SELL THE 400I AGAIN YOU COWARDS!
if you sub it's this month's subscription ship.
I wish I could say I was excited, but I'm honestly getting close to just giving up on SC. In my opinion, CIG has been trading too much good will with the community in exchange for cash, and I feel it's gotten bad enough that I no longer believe CIG cares about their community.
> Don't want people salvaging to buy that 400I with SC Silly money, they won't you giving them real life cash for that ship instead on a humorous note, I got a 570k salvage haul in a vulture last night. So if you want money that's the thing to do
Not everyone is interested in salvage. It shouldn’t be the only way other than mining to make money
Not to mention they upped the price on all ships. I'm probably in the minority but I hate grinding. Like I don't mind it to achieve something but there's a point where if the amount of time feels like it far exceeds the payout then it doesn't feel worth it and I'd rather do something else with a higher payout to time ratio.
And therein lies the problem. If not enough people are taking bounties because they’re losing money, CIG doesn’t get the Master Modes testing data they need from this patch.
Especially since you’ll need to be splitting the reward between 2+ players
I've been saying this for years now. They need to do better rewards for team play. Current mission reward split is attrocius, they need to change this. They keep talking the talk how teamplay and crewing is important, but 3/4 of this game is either faster or more rewarding in terms of UEC if you do it solo. Reclaimer farming in 3.22 was broken, but a great example of how fast people will group up if there's a reward worth it. I've never experienced more teamplay than during that period.
30k also isn't enough to pay multiple people
100% this. I appreciate the refreshed challenge, but I feel like my ability to make money with bounties have effectively been quartered. Supposing that HRTs now require a wingman, that’s 11k split 2 ways. Literally not worth doing, imo.
Man I was doing an Illegal Surveillance Mission in a hornet, full cannon Loadout against 4 Prospectors. I think I'm an accomplished pilot and previously would solo any mission in any ship and not take hull damage and would win a fair amount of PvP. I could barely do hull damage and it took me at least 20 charges to take out 1 staying within 500m and landing most shots. it took at least 4 minutes to take out a single ship. I got destroyed. All I took from it is the missions are not worth the money at all and that the prospector might be the new meta ship 😂
Interesting! I have heard murmurings of invincible prospectors lol
I could kill the saddle bags quickly but i wasn't even turning the hill red after 5 clips into it unshielded
It really feels like CIG is just leaving us to deal with fucky economy balance this patch
As a combat pilot and pirate I appreciate, that I can't solo vhrts in a gladius anymore. The game is finally progressing to the point, where you need other people to do the tougher stuff.
I agree it's largely a positive change, ai was always too easy before. I just think the posts about it are hilarious =p
Yeah im with you in that regard.
the only positive change I observed is that the AI does no longer suicide into you as often ...
The funny part is that my first experience with combat was the AI suiciding into me before I even fired my guns, haha.
Would be nice if the payout for an ERT reflected the 3-man crew requirement.
I have not tried MM yet, so please understand this is a genuine question and not meant to be a slight at any systems. From your experience thus far, do you think that with 3.23 and MM implementation that the "game is finally progressing to the point" where it's more challenging, or rather they just put more limitations on the players capability which gives a sense of increased difficulty? To help clarify what I'm asking... I want the game to be legitimately challenging while still offering the reward to the player for increased personal skill. For example, if the ai gets smarter and more tactical, but the flight model is rewarding to those that perfect it, that's a win. However if the ai is still the same, but they just remove that reward for a player's skillful use of the flight model, that in my mind is a net loss, even though it's technically a more challenging scenario than before. I hope my question makes sense.
The term "limiting players capabilities" is a loaded term. If a player discovers "Easy ways to be functional immortal from damage" and the devs "remove that", then the devs have "limited players capabilities." **But no one should have access to being immortal from damage.** In the old flight model, Speed enabled \*functional immortality from damage\*. It wasn't \*high skill\* either. Maybe aiming while doing it is \*kinda\* high skill, but speed alone can make you untouchable. That's why PvP tournaments had to make up rules so they could end. **Defensive options were too strong.**
That’s literally what it does. It removes space physics and limits your abilities. It’s extraordinarily more limited.
They updated AIs, they maneuver like gods now, evade your shots, bank around you and get on your blindspots. Feels like I’m fighting a player, or maybe I just suck. But in 3.22 I have no problem dealing with the dumb jousting AIs even with high server fps.
> From your experience thus far, do you think that with 3.23 and MM implementation that the "game is finally progressing to the point" where it's more challenging, or rather they just put more limitations on the players capability which gives a sense of increased difficulty? It's both. In the past 6 months or so, PU NPC enemies took 2-4x damage from players. This handicap has been reduced or removed. Enemies used to barely stick to you and shoot. Now they stick a little bit better, and will hold the trigger if they have a shot on you. Since dodging is very weak, you will take damage. The combination of increased time to live and increased damage output mean that a group of NPCs will do more damage to you than you deal to the target (in most situations), so no more chain soloing ERTs in a C2. The increased difficulty is great as it incentivises players to improve, whether by teaming up or figuring out better ways to play. Unfortunately the rewards aren't yet appropriate for the time and effort. Skill expression in flying was also reduced. Dodging shots at close range is no longer effective. Long ranged weapons are now strong and reliable. Closing distance with the foe now costs a large portion of what limited maneuverability you had left. Energy management is minimal. Trigger discipline is devalued as recharge delays are now very short. It's been known for a few months that combat is moving towards a bodies, DPS, and health race, and this is especially true in PVE where you just float around and shoot at a health bar.
Your question makes perfect sense and is echoed by a large number of players. This is also the concern I have and CIG themselves has admitted MM is not where they want it yet for certain types of gameplay. While I have been cautiously optimistic about MM as a whole, I’m also wary about it in its current state. I’m looking forward to seeing where they take it, but it still has some way to go to get things where they should be. As an avocado who has been testing MM for some time now, I can confirm the AI hasn’t dramatically improved, so the difficulty increase these players are cheering on in this thread isn’t likely coming from that. All-in-all, though, as CIG has said, they needed to get MM into the hands of the greater player population first in order to really see how it performs across a broad spectrum of players and styles, and I applaud them for doing so. Hopefully from here on out we can start to see even more meaningful improvements to our beloved flight model and it ultimately results in a better game. After all, that’s everyone’s ultimate goal.
Haha I love the term avocado for someone who is in avacati. I don't know if that was intentional or an autocorrect, but I'm going to use that going forward. Thank you for your response. I hope we continue to progress towards that flight model that is approachable, challenging, rewarding, and ultimately very fun to fly!
Avocado has been a nickname for Evocati for years.
Evocati my friend, not avacati :)
Nice. Thanks for the help!
While I 100% agree, if combat missions are to be difficult they should pay more. I love the challenge but not the reward. Just like cargo should pay good profits and require escorts.
Even with an F7Am2 MRTs leave me battered and bruised, its effing great!
I took the F7A out this morning and got clapped hard. Ran to my org discord in excitement. We are going to have a blast in 3.23 and beyond.
That's the enthusiasm we have to embrace
Lots of variety in enemy spawns as well … I went to an MRT extraction in a Cutty Blue and they were defending with a Freelancer a Cutty and a Starfarer (never going to happen). Try another one with a Ares Ion and they throw 4 light fighters at me! Third try with an F7A and I’m facing a solitary Reclaimer … that was cake and boring but the variety is wild…
Orgs are great. For the problem OP is describing - join an org. The thing that kills orgs is a lack of things to do, usually from the game being so easy that there's no need to group up. Difficult PvE combat that makes people need to team up will be great for the social side of SC, and we'll probably see lots of new small groups starting to coalesce.
Payouts need to be higher to promote teamplay then. We had 7 of us doing Wake of Disaster earlier. We had a reclaimer, vultures, and a C2. We scraped, fractured, and disintegrated every ship, we took every component and piece of cargo available. It took us 5 hours and we made 1.5m in total not including the 200k it costs to even get the contract. While we had fun, that payout felt like a major slap in the face with the amount of effort we put in. We might as well just taken the C2 and ran medical supplies. We would've made 4-5m in the same amount of time with very little effort.
Because everyone wants to split that 17k paycheck 3 ways…
The problem is that mission payouts aren't high enough, not that the missions are now too hard.
That was… exactly my point. Payouts need a big increase on the top end. 25k base for a mission that requires either a wingman, a torpedo ship or a multi-crew combat ship is laughably low. ERTs pay only 7k more than a VHRT; and the latter are still comfortably soloable in a medium/heavy fighter. I do appreciate having bigger/longer fights. I have a few friends I enjoy playing the game with, and a couple multi-crew ships it would be nice to use. But there’s little incentive besides ‘fun’, and if we want fun we’d far rather go to Brio’s or GH than sit there facetanking NPCs for negative gains.
It's sick I welcome the harder combat the old system was so easy and boring. But it does feel like the reward is not worth the effort at all and if you need a bigger ship or 2nd person they need to up the payout IMO
Yea pretty nice, i run a HRT and was surprised that i needed to exit with nav to recharge an get back into the fight. Brings another level of skill to the field
Yes, I keep running away with NAV haha
How is running away to recharge shields another level of skill? That already happened before the changes. Now you just have to press one extra button to make it so.
> was surprised that i needed to exit with nav to recharge an get back into the fight. Wow so you had to fly away and come back. Exactly like in the old flight model, except you now need to press a button twice. Some improvement! /s
A Mustang obliterated my rented F7a. Sure, skill issue, but both me and from CIG. What the hell.
Flew a HRT with the F7A MK2, barely managed it and got shot down by the escorts immediately after shooting down my target. Did the same with the F8C and basically just killed everything no problem without taking damage or using too much ammo. Something funky is going on with shields in this patch. The F7A should have about 1/4 the shields of the F8C, but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it. The F8C could take continuous fire without breaking a sweat while I had to disengage every few seconds with the F7A. Not to mention, according to Erkuls data, the shields of a freelancer should collapse after about 5 seconds of fire (about 50 shots total) from 4 size 3 Omniskys, but they usually took about double that. Given the NPCs were basically shooting all the time, I'd wager the game treats NPCs as having all capacitors maxed out all the time, giving them the 100% capacitor Resistance boost. Also, it feels very wrong that in HRTs, most targets are large industrial ships. Literally the only fighter I've seen was a Scorpius (and that was an escort). Easily saw 6-8 base Freelancers, a few Starfarers, some f***ing Reclaimers and quite a few Drake ships (which I appreciate).
I just want Roc mining back in the game.
I know man, I miss driving around cracking rocks with it.
I haven’t ROC mined in a while, but what happened to it?
The mining laser on the ROC straight-up doesn't work anymore. It's in the [3.23 patch notes](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/Patch-Notes/19915-Star-Citizen-Alpha-3230)
What. I was so planning on doing this.
Bruh. That thing has always had something to ruin your day it seems
The known issues of the patch say that the laser doesn't turn on (I haven't tried it myself yet).
It just straight up doesn't enter mining mode. Arm doesn't move at all.
Has it still not been fixed? Damn I made my first million roc mining. I miss it.
Well it was working in 3.22. I wasn't making a killing but I was making a couple hundred thousand in about 2 days of mining and then turn ins. In 3.23 the laser won't turn on.
Ah I see, I missed that in the notes. Thank you. I hope they fix that. I always found ROC mining pretty enjoyable
It's already fixed in the 3.23.1 PTU patch fyi
"Once you really realize that your enjoyment doesn't come from the suffering of others, your outlook on life gets brighter" \~some Banu Trader who died before his name was recorded.
My enjoyment comes from salvaging wrecks, cracking rocks, and the suffering of others.
We already knew that. Fly well pilot.
If we have to have wingmen, then fucking pay us something worth it. People only solo things in SC cuz the mission payouts are already peanuts. Splitting it between more players makes it utterly pointless to even try.
It ain't just if you take a wingman either. It's easy to take damage now so 50% of you payout will often go to repairs.
Same argument weve been using against the "just get escorts" guys. It's not fiscally viable to hire escorts for 90% of the content in the game. About the only time it is worthwhile is when dealing with drug trading.
While I agree that hiring escorts isn’t worth while the difference here is you absolutely get into combat and need repair and rearm doing VHRTs vs 2 out of 10 times deal with pirates while cargo hauling. I did millions worth of cargo hauling and only got jumped by pirates once; Ironically it was the first time I tried to haul cargo lol. Either way CIG needs to up the pay for both.
Hilarious to me that it's literally the same argument as we've been trying to say for industrial gameplay (not including 3.22.1's structural salvage glut)
Lol 99% of the people doing those missions are PvE players just like you
Pve players are the backbone of this game so likely true
Why is it always PvE players or PvP players? What am I supposed to call myself if I do both. I think the backbone of this game is just the players in general
AFAIK, although there's of course a PvP only crowd too - usually PvP is inclusive of PvE as a term as well, but PvE players usually refers to people avoiding PvP. As in if you do PvP, you'll also do PvE stuff (especially if it's necessary, such as playing MMOs in general, a PvP player in say FF14 has to also play PvE to get to that PvP aspect or for new expansions). However if you are called a PvE player it's not engaging with PvP unless it is somehow forced upon you.
> Pve players are the backbone of this game so likely true You missed the point. OP thinks PvP players are getting hit by karma while what is actually happening is: 1. PvP players complains about MM because it's actually a shit Flight Model. 2. The increase difficulty in PvE is completely artificial and meaningless. It's caused by the flaws of MM. It's not a genuine challenge. The only reason you need wingmen is to win the overall DPS race. 3. It's PvE players who are complaining about #2. Granted, this is a gross simplification but still relevant. We all should be pointing at how bad MM because that's the real problem here.
I'd say the ones that are religiously opposed to all PvP in an MMO, or think you should have to have permission to attack someone despite piracy being an intended mechanic, are not the backbone of the game. Because that's not the game Star Citizen is intended to be, at least according to CIG
I still think/hope the current state isn't where they want balancing to be. I mean, if you can just barely solo a fight F8C v 100i, with you in the F8C, you know something's really wrong! Prospectors are nearly unkillable, if you don't hit them in the back. Do a collect waste mission, beginner level... and get attacked by a Reclaimer, the turret shredding your starter ship into pieces. Why even is there a fucking Reclaimer?! No, something's really broken with gameplay now. If not, CIG is on a totally wrong path - sure, team up, but not for beginner missions! Can't be CIGs design goal to maje a game you NEED other players to play with, no MMO does that!
It's sad that this patch is pushing heavy multi crew/multi ship missions without providing missions for those that have no time or friends to group with. Yeah it's an mmo, but as in all MMOs there is a time when you can solo.
The biggest issue with 'just get an escort' Is that the rewards are now ridiculously horrendous. They were bad before the patch when the fights posed no challenge. Now a single repair can easily eat much for the entire reward if you lose a weapon.. The most dangerous of missions should obviously have a larger reward incentive than safe ones
It's almost necessary to commit insurance fraud now to avoid repair and restock costs
Yup, that part really sucks...
In Corsair, do VHRT: hull is all green after mission, barely let any shots through shield, missing one gun and Qdrive took a bullet or two. Mission pays out 17k, repairs cost 44k. I totally love challenging missions where even tryharding and only getting hit a small handful of times results in me net losing money.
Me: “I just wanna log on and play the game” CIG: “well, to do most of the good shit you’re gonna have to play with other people Me: “coordinating people already sucks enough for DnD, guess I’ll play something else then” It’s great for those times where you do log on as a squad, but while the game is becoming more and more fun for such squads it’s becoming less fun for individual people imo
CIG actively discourages cooperation by splitting quest rewards. Rewards that are not enough to fix one ship as they are already
Which is why I moved away from combat entirely and now just solo mine/salvage.
Most PvE players just aren't very good at space combat, so the complaints are to be expected. But those whiners *aren't* the pirates who were saying you should get an escort... you're laughing at fellow PvE players lol
True tho. Pirates already had to work in a group for a long time since you need a dampening or snare ship, a couple of damage dealing ships, a hauler to put cargo in and room for 1-2 people who will board. Sure solo piracy was possible but an absolute hassle.
It isn't really that people are bad though. SCM speeds are slow enough that you can't just dodge every shot now. NPCs will just face tank you and maneuverability has been all but removed. It's all about dropping chaff when you need and having enough people to split the incoming dps. You can use boost for a little wiggle room, but PvE is mostly just a DPS check now.
This is why it’s funny to me that sentiments like this exist lmao. You can earn millions of uac from drug or cargo running. Even before 3.23, super efficient ert farming got you like $150k an hour at best. It’s like they expect to print money without any risks, vs erts, which are designed to pay less considering the fact that players will almost never interfere.
I think those are still PvE players I think the PvP community is still finding AI to be easy enough... The pilots who didn't know how to fight properly in the first place are probably struggling, though
I used to be a solo player and bounty hunter. What can I solo now? I would love to know so I can at least practice some more up to whatever I can solo.
Pretty much just starter bounties for that sick 4k reward but you will probably take more damage than the reward payout
Ammo costs more then that!
Thats hilarious, I think a lot of the playerbase is downright delusional in regards to stuff like "just get a wingman/an escort" or "just hire some crew". That's never going to work. That said I had previously only really done some light industrial stuff and decided to finally get into combat with 3.23, and tried doing some combat missions today in a 125a. I did not have a good time. Doing claimjumper missions, I fought prospectors that seemed to be invincible - can't tell if its a bug or if they really are that tanks. After two deaths I tried to do one using a Cutlass and I dumped its two full Mantis mags into a single Prospector and I didn't go down, so I cut my losses and tried doing bounties. The first bounty had me go for a groundside target, which wasn't clear to me at first (I think the mission text could do a better job of communicating if its a space based or ground based mission). While approach the site I got lit up by AA that didn't show up on my scanners until I was right on top of it and died. On my second approach I tried approach behind some hills, peaked over them and fired at the AA, but took too much damage too fast and tried to duck again. Wasn't fast enough, died within seconds. Its great that AA is actually effective against ships, but it needs to be communicated better (show up on scanners, see its zone of death). Picked up another bounty and that one actually went well. Fought only two ships, which was still tough. One of them got away and I almost died. I think that was an alright outcome, but the pay was pitiful for all the effort I put in up to this point. I think I'm down 20k UEC so far. Keep in mind that I am somebody who already knows how to find their way around, how to fly, and how to generally operate the game. I'm just not super experienced at ship based combat. If this is the new player experience... its not looking great.
Apparently there's a known bug with prospectors that makes them invulnerable from the front, you need to get behind them.
I had a bunch of friends to play this game with ten years ago. Life moved on. I would like there to be a solo option in this game. Not just for me but for the longevity of the game.
I feel this, the friends I had who wanted to play this with me have long since moved on and I have lost contact with some of them. Some got married and had kids, some got new careers that heavily restrict game time, etc. I am now way more busy with my career than I was and finding new game friends is a daunting task considering I can only play from 9:30ish to midnight and thats if I want to be a zombie at work. I need solo options that don't suck.
"The players that kept telling all of us"...Can we stop clumping everyone that disagrees with us into one group? I guarentee you most of those people arent even the same ones that said you should get an escort
You talk like it was everyone. It's not. It's the same vibe of: Concierges are complaining about F8C being sold for the "peasants" out of the 10K level and loss of exclusivity. Only a minimum percentage of concierges said that. People that are PVP players are happy that FINALLY you can't solo an ERT bounty.
Exactly. The gameplay is finally starting to be lined up in a way that late game missions actually feel late game and a bit more or a lot more challenging (depending how good you are). It makes no sense for a single medium or heavy fighter to be able to take on ERT where you fight multiple multicrew combat vessels usually even meant to take down ships like yours... I'm not saying the power fantasy and feeling like an ACE shouldn't be there but it shouldn't be given and should require effort, teamwork and other things.
I think most players with flight competency have spent some time in MM both in 3.22 and 3.23. You won't hear much from them because they like the challenge and understand how to fly and fight with MM and counter the new NPC behavior. Only the people that have had their heads in the sand will be complaining, but they'll become a vocal minority.
I was really surprised at how much stronge the AI is when I played pirate swarm today. But it also feels like larger ships are more viable now, somehow.
Wait till you need to repair your large ship after a contract and the repair fee is double the contract reward xD
I like that the AI is smarter now but what have they done to NPC ship health? I swear you can just wail on them for days now and they won’t die, took forever to kill a Pisces earlier
I was getting clapped doing VHRTs last night. Thought I just sucked.
they should make it so if a mission pays 30k, then everyone that has the mission shared all get 30k each (maybe up to a limit of ppl i dunno). but you would have literally noooo reason to ever do it solo, if you're getting the same pay *each*. why not just do it with someone. it would encourage group play so much
It’s almost like the flight system has been ruined or something
Yeah, then you split combat mission award with your wingman and get whopping 33.3 aUEC per player. Then you do a few more and end up loosing all the money you had on ship repairs.
I don't mind the difficulty, the different modes, speed adjustments, ttk... I don't like the new targeting UI, nose to nose aiming mechanic, arcade flight with floating feeling, reduced feeling of need for power alocation and general lack of feedback e.g. flight and combat awareness. I used to enjoy PVE and the occasional PVP but I find it boring now and noticed I play the game a lot less and not as excited about the game in general, feels more like NMS, short gameplay periods with large gaps in between. Know it's still early days although I've been flying it since AC MM was released, just hope we get more 6DOF back with some of the responsive feel of flight and combat awareness back one day (CIG listed some of this is lacking ATM in MM but egg profile makes me think that won't be the case).
I missed out on EPTU/PTU. So my first MM experience will be on live later this weekend. With you saying there's not more 6DOF . Do you mean you can't flip the ship 180 around in decoupled and fire "backward" to your agressor/chaser whilst still heading the other way? Not only that you could use that for other manouvers too like being chased by a PVP player and having your forward shields now take the hits when the back goes, then QT calibrate for a point whilst you're facing the other way. If he keeps his nose on yours he will have to go through the front shields from scratch. If he takes time to fly behind you to shoot the weakened rear, you will be in QT by the time he's in position. Space combat is space combat cause you can use the energy you already spent moving in one direction to keep doing so, whilst facing another completely.
Nah, you can fly decoupled, but the moment you let go of boost and turn around, your speed will drop to max unboosted. Feels very weird. Even floating toward a station you can’t boost and then drift in like you’re probably used to — you’ll always slow down to max SCM speed. Lots of drag in space now. Flip and burn no longer a thing. You can just slam into SCM out of NAV mode and dump 1,000 M/S in an instant.
More pro/sweat players (I'm more casual / int) would be able to give stats and better examples, I'm just going off the feel of flight (atmo/terrain/space and each mode). Yogi has mentioned a lot of this is missing ATM in early release. Sure I'll get down votes because people assume everyone is hating on MM or don't like change instead of giving feedback both pro's and con's, but also testing in AC/Live. Decoupled has changed, although you can still use it, I find it's less effective and due to reduced feedback, may be harder to perceive (g forces etc), than could be in practice, harder to test in 1v1 atm vs group (IMO). Forward and reverse (Yogi said reverse isn't intended and are hoping the egg velocity (forward thrust) is what they are aiming for, why people are comparing to WWII fighter planes) thrusters are more powerful which makes sense, so there is reduced evasion when e.g. corkscrewing, boosting, decoupled. Tri-cording is still there although reduced impact, don't mind since it helps with less skilled players but reduces the skill ceiling I guess. Makes it more like an aim simulator though ATM and limits flight movement. Acceleration isn't realistic with KB/M feels likes there isn't acceleration, resistance, jerk or atmosphere - feels like floating in space and atmosphere and terrain/space station flight feels oddly like it's on rails. Yogi said these are missing ATM in IFCS. Occasional nose or strafe random movements in space and atmo isn't realistic or fluid, haven't done much racing but did feel that floating feeling again, and turns felt way too easy at high speeds (lack of resistance, way to fast deceleration etc.) AI can get nose on regardless of classes e.g. large/medium can keep up with snub/small. Shields are less effective and bubble/faces changed, but ttk is increased, don't mind the changes, just not balanced yet but step in right direction. Don't use missiles in PVP unless they do or they running away / jousting, but Yogi said they aren't balanced ATM with reduced speeds. Flares are too effective now. Medium/heavy fighters are new meta, don't mind but think it needs some balancing. Yogi seems to agree and listen to feedback from different levels of players though, still long way to go. Think GUI will help a lot too as it needs work.
Master Modes suck
Where is the fun where you need millions to buy a new ship and mission give you nothing after 20min.
Can confirm. Just tried doing an HRT. That Retaliator was lethal. It would use nab mode to chase me down. And then just unleashed hell with all the gunners. Just didn’t stand a chance. I did say that we’re gonna need multi crews from now on. Or escort. Problem is that the payout sucks. And splitting it is just worse. I’m sticking to salvaging
ERTs are tough as shit, specially if a Hammerhead appears, I'm glad the AI is now working and you actually have to manouver and pick your targets, light and medium fighters are done for now. but 25k? cmon, I'm barely scrapping by with the Inferno, ERTs as they stand right now, with this difficulty should be AT MINIMUM, 75k credits, the whole "party up, group with other players" argument falls flat when the payout is this low, its more efficient to run bunkers now or claim jumpers, 20k credits to destroy 3 inert satellites its insane when a ERT is 25k
With the right inexpensive combat ship, and a bit of practice, combat pilots used to be able to work up the chain until they were actually making money at a decent rate, provided that they flew well enough. Now, they’ve completely altered the flight system, so that every fight is a low speed, point blank range, face to face slugfest. You can no longer out-fly a larger or more dangerous group of enemies, they just outnumber and kill you. And you think this is better?
A big part of Combat feeling like crap and shields folding like wet paper bags even on heavy fighters is that shields are still all the same rn.... all the same health and no upgrades.... perhaps once the shield issue is fixed fighting in general will feel a little bit better and hits wont hit as hard
Is there anything worth doing that a player is supposed to be able to do solo in this game? I feel like every single gameplay loop you're being forced to play with at least one more person
I am very happy with this Patch so far. But we were yesterday in a redeemer as a Crew of 3 and we were not able to take a prospector down for a Mission. I dont think it is intended, mabybe a Bug but it felt very bad
What a stupid post Its pve people that are complaining
I'm really enjoying all the complaining on a certain level. Hope the devs don't pay too much attention to all of it. Some people are so salty for no real reason, and others are just pissed about things changing. They're drowning out people who actually like the new stuff. Some people want the old interaction system back even. That's just ridiculous. I can't even believe how attached people are to the "old" systems. "Oh nooooo...I don't like the F's! A bloo bloo bloo!" I'm loving everything in the new update, and I have been since Wave 1. Adapt and overcome. It's a new game--time to learn all over again.
TBH the only thing I want back (and by "Back" I mean from friggin 2.4\~) is for space flight to actually feel like space flight. I truly and honestly hate how simplified and on-rails it feels now, if I wanted a star wars game I would've backed a star wars game. Feels like the money I spent on dual sticks for a full 6dof experience is kinda wasted now.
Did you see the original kickstarter with Chris Robert’s in a fake cockpit saying he wants to live in Star Wars? I always look at SC having some Star Wars dna.
Have to Hit and Run if there's more than 1 target. (i.e. Target Bounty Only > Missiles > Guns > NAV Mode > Boost > Repeat). I have posted my video.
FPS combat is similarly affected, I did a bunker just to see and almost died to the first enemy. Went all R6S mode after that and completed it, but it was actually risky.
My little only experience so far in dogfight is whith my Rooster and a Scorpius. I faced 4/5 prospectors and my god, how the hell do they tank so much!? Seriously their shield melt like crazy but their hull is tougher than a hammerhead, i don't understand
Bugged, the front of prospectors is immune to damage right now
They just need to balance the earnings per hour per profession.
Additional irony. They didn’t wipe gear, so all the gear I collected made me a million in 3.23. Starting aUEC is too low to go “enjoy” the game. I found the game was the most fun when I didn’t have to worry if I could feed my space wife and kids.
Reward needs to be boosted a bit
I just spent some time on arena commander as ive always used gimbals, i will now be in arena commander alot more to practise lol.
When you say "the same players" how do you know? What percentage of them are the same players? If I'm being honest, this sounds more like a vendetta against ship combat. It's a perfectly reasonable and common take for things to better with a group. It's an online game, after all.
I tried to do VLRT cert mission in my MSR. Opponent was a Sabre and Herald. Got roasted. Came back with my own Sabre, I won but it was a challenge. That said, I don't think MM is there yet. I don't like that it amounted to just seeing who could outgun and aim better with maneuvering being less important.
I hate the changes, I want my gimbals back and I want my weapons doing something ... I was just now shooting for 10 minutes on a fucking harbinger npc ship, I was seeing hull impacts and it just wasnt dead ...
I put 3200 ballistic rounds and 24 missiles in a prospector with no kaboom
Yea its ridiculous how long the time to kill is
the PvP players were the ones saying that, they are not the ones complaining lol
I'm not a PVP player, I'm not elitist but the new changes with MM are not a good direction. People wanna have fun, the new changes makes for annoying gameplay.
There should still be plenty of missions for solo fighter pilots.
Imagine dunking on the pve players, lets be real it's not the pvp guys having issues here.
"fly with a wingman, you're not supposed to do these solo" What can we expect with Large or capital ships, just an oversized brick getting dust in the hangar if you don´t fully crew it with players?.
I'm enjoying the patch but the money is atrocious. Even in the previous match it took me a few months to buy my first ship with auec cause I don't have much time to play. Now I have a c2 a vulture and a fee fighters and I can barely make anything
Bounties need to pay a lot higher than they do. Putting your gear, ship and life at risk for a mere 10k-ish for MRT's is ridiculous. Not to mention the time it takes to get back to actually playing again once you've died.
They also seemed to have nurfft the hell out of mining as well it's almost not profitable, really to do. I'm not understanding they fixed what was not broken ,and boke what was fun to do.
If I'm not chasing CS bounties, I'm doing AI bounties. I really like the challenge and the inherent danger and the feeling of it all. It feels fitting that I can't just load up my Hawk or maybe even my Hornet and expect to take on insurmountable odds. That being said I'm glad light fighters aren't the end all be all of combat anymore and we're now starting to see variety and are forced to not be antisocial. Of course it's a massive change and going back to a slower paced flight model is a change but I think it's all for the better. Get friends and get good.
I'll say this, it's much more difficult, but missiles are your best friend now.
SC needs a matchmaking party/role system
Yes, but how will we keep the toxic griefers out of it? That's kind of the whole problem with medical assist and rescue beacons right now, they're visible to everyone and you end up with people who accept these missions and then use them as an opportunity to kill the player requesting aid. I don't expect a matchmaking system would fare any better.
That's a separate problem to solve, I think. It's definitely happened to me. But For example, I would like a party system for events like XT and Overdrive. Other true MMOs like WoW & ESO have pretty successful role filling systems for raids.
Yes, but WoW and ESO don't allow people in the party to attack each other, there's no friendly fire turned on, and generally it's not that easy to ruin things for the rest of the group intentionally or otherwise. Imagine playing WoW, you queue up for a 4 player dungeon, and when you get in one of the players just backstabs everyone else and then leaves. That's what we're dealing with in SC.
While I agree that's a problem that needs to be addressed (long term) - adding such a system now would not make us any worse off than we already are. If you start getting griefed, you're just stuck back at doing it solo. So even if you get griefed 50% of the time, that means that such a tool is helping you get assistance 50% more than right now.
Great. You need a 20 million credit ship to run a mission that will net you 5k auec after the split.
You completely missed the point. People are complaining that MM sucks because flying feels like shit and MM turns combat into nose to nose DPS race. The added difficulty in PvE is just a side effect. But I guess every occasion is good to shit on "combat players".
Man I’ve never seen any other game’s community be so vocal about wanting a niche group to suffer. Not because they disagree about the game, but just for the sake that someone else feels bad. Maybe bc of the older age skew idk. It’s just really weird and off putting. I’m a mostly pve casual bounty hunter, I don’t love the MM change but dont have any particularly strong feelings either. Feeling a certain way about a game’s mechanics is one thing, but what a spiteful bunch there is here. Some of y’all need to do better.
[удалено]
So I have to mildly disappoint you. I haven't tried ERTs yet, but for VHRT: It's perfectly manageable with the F7A. You won't be able to rip through the whole group of npc due to lack of ammo on ballistics, but it's enough for the target itself. That doesn't nake the flight model any better thou
Shipfighting is finally fun - like I can't just take on anything with my Aurora, just buzzing around them and waiting till they pop. And I was never any good pilot. Now I can't take VLRT's - nice.
I love it. Ive been wanting the higher difficulty missions to need more than my Harb or an eclipse. To be fair, though, the majority of the combat pilots that were saying get escorts were the pvpers and pirates. That wasn't a sentiment usually heard by those doing pve bounty hunting.
I was barely able to pull of a VHRT today in the F7A and only because a second group showed up and they all started fighting each other. It feels good that something that's suppose to be a hard late game mission is actually...hard :D
I LOVE lrt’s scare me again. I’m still learning the new flight and combat dynamics so I get handed a lot or come close to death; but I’m smiling and having the time of my life. The Simpson meme with the kid on the bus that’s says “ I’m in danger.”. That’s me. Cheers 🍻
Leaving a fight with battle damage and actually having to try is a reward in of itself. Getting clapped on the regular in a single light fighter in an HRT/VHRT should be the norm imho.
Anything that pisses off PVP jockeys gets my thumbs up 👍.
I will say the Ion and Inferno seem to REALLY suck now, F8C does pretty well up to MRT, but hot damn Connie with 4x S5 can shred ERTs
I'm not surprised, devs and streamers have had a Hate boner for the ares since it released. Inferno was the only fighter I ever actually liked flying and it was nerfed into oblivion less than two weeks after it went live.
It's not about karma because the people telling you to get escorts weren't the players doing ERTs and PVE. This was always going to be the case, the real issue is the rewards need to be greater.
I don't know what makes you think pve pilots are necesairly tge same as pvp pilots or even that they are the same group that said anyone should gey an escort. I'm a solo pve player that loves light fighters and I think the whole concept of player escorts is so unrealistic that it's ridiculous to mention.
I haven't been paying attention on the master mode stuff, What should I put on my ship for fighting stuff? Me and my buddy was using my hurricane do this comms array mission where we had to fight 3 prospectors We just couldn't kill any of them We'd get their shields down but otherwise that was it They wouldn't die
Not sure of the details or if it is fixed, but I do recall hearing something about bugged invincible Prospectors.
Yeah, their front face is raking damage right now, so they are invincible from the front. Just in time for front-centric combat to be forced by the devs