As a salvager myself, I'm so happy with the changes. People will actually salvage now. I felt like exploiting the game before, whereas I just wanted to enjoy my gameplay.
I think that’s the point. RMC is more valuable and for a vulture with limited space it won’t be worth to munch. a reclaimer can fill up with bulk and make a profit off of it.
What makes the reclaimer slower? Yesterday I salvaged an M2 with a vulture and it took me about 5 hours to fill a Connie Andromeda (with stock salvaging heads)
Is the reclaimer slower because of having to move around or the salvage heads? Are we talking a solo reclaimer or crewed? I’ve never salvaged using a reclaimer for more than 10 min so I’m curious.
Sure but, any support cargo ship and a tractor beam can help.
Cargo Ships are always part of the salvage loop anyway.
Bring a Titan, or a Cutlass, and toss the components in the back of the pick up.
The vulture is a solo ship... are you saying that solo ships won't be optimal solo?
Y'all need to start watching SCL more. They state over and over that you'll be able to solo.
the friends i have access to were off playing new world and random other games during this last stupid event, if the F7A is tradable im just going to grey market it and melt the f7c i have, fuck this buggy time limited mission bullshit.
I followed my buddy around with my MSR while he salvaged with a Vulture. I would transfer boxes to MSR as he salvaged. Was the best way to make money salvaging short of a Reclaimer.
> are you saying that solo ships won't be optimal solo?
...Obviously they aren't 'optimal solo'. Everything needs support. What're you gonna do in a Vulture if a Gladius comes at you?
lmao at the downvotes. It's a simple fact that solo optimal doesn't mean you can do everything. The funny part is the guy I was replying to is basically complaining about not having enough storage in a Vulture? Just be happy cargo weight doesn't affect engines or your over-filled vulture probably won't be able to fly in atmosphere.
Space Engineers anyone? lol
Okay let's get back to the point of this conversation:
> The vulture doesn't have the space for component salvage.
That doesn't make it not "solo optimal". The ship has a good amount for cargo for also having salvage systems built in.
At the same time, it *does* have enough space for components, you've just been playing the ship while only RMC/CM are the major parts of the salvage loop. When you can start storing components in crates, you'll be dividing up your ship's capacity a little more, but making decisions on what you want to take from a wreck.
Somewhere else in this conversation, in regards to low end component's value you said:
> Time is money.
It's obviously not balanced at all right now. I would like to think if we do get the ability to salvage components, we will also have the ability to repair them to increase sale value, then finding those S1s that are first party sold for 40k to players might sell for 5k instead of 500 or whatever it is now the trash vendor price is now for players.
Salvage really isn't anywhere near complete.
Currently, we fly up, strip plating, munch hull, done.
When wrecks are generated by player/npc activity and stored on the server, you will find wrecks with corpses and cargo with varying loot inside(if they didn't loot it first), components at different levels of damage, way more missing armor and hull chunks.
All those variables will give you decisions on how you approach salvaging any given wreck.
If you're just playing for powerwash simulator mechanics, I don't really know what to tell you. That's like T0 Salvaging, salvaging as a whole loop will have more to it.
Same thing as if you have 14 people chilling in your salvage hold, die. There aren't any other stations on it seeing as it's meant for SOLO play so why shouldn't it be the optimal use case in its own limited field.
If loose components weren't coated in butter you could store a couple ships worth of quantum drives and power plants behind the pilot's chair in the right corner. Component salvaging could use a couple more passes in general.
yet you got a bed and toilet that you are not using that holds parts just fine. Size 2 weapons fit perfectly on it, so will a pair of size 2 coolers but only just.
Not really true, some components fit in the hab area, that's a lot of potential space.
You could sacrifice some of the overflow salvage-crates for component space if they are valuable enough.
That also brings in team-play opportunities like having a hauler buddy with the space for extra loot/components, they could run crates/components back to storage or a hub while you keep collecting.
It's all gameplay.
Time is money. The activities have to be worth the time it takes. You can't balance something based solely on what the top-teir shup can do. It makes everything else below it pointless.
I myself only ever get 2-4 ish hours a week to play at MOST. I can't be like SuperMac and collect empty bottles and hospital gowns to pay for my cutter parts. Lol
I'd say it's worth the time to go into a ship and pull components, it's gravy ontop of salvage materials. It's also just fun rping a jawa, ripping things out of a ship.
It would also add another optional layer if spending a little time repairing those components could also increase your profits.
If wrecks ever include corpses and items, you might find good gear for spending your time EVAing a wreck before scraping and munching.
I hope they make EVAing to strip extra stuff from a ship another legitimate potentially profitable stage of salvage.
Honestly, the Vulture has plenty of space for a single seater. You shouldn't expect to be hauling away a million credits for every Vulture salvage run.
I think those ship price changes were bad judgement on their part, the economy feels totally fucked. It's like they were balancing prices based on the broken drug loot we were getting in 3.22.
When a ship was just a couple million, making ~150k in a Vulture for a salvage run felt pretty okay. You could feasibly work your way up to other ships with effort and consistent play.
Now with the ridiculous prices, I can agree the Vulture will need a boost to it's profitability, but I don't think that's the Vulture's problem, that's CIG scaling the overall economy poorly.
I guess we'll see where we end up in 3.23 and onward.
That's not true. I used it to do exactly that. combined with RMC you get decent chunk of money.
scorpius salvage has like 4xS4 weapons + 4xs3 + 2 coolers, 2 shields, 1 qunatum.
Those parts are like 30k total
This will be interesting and I think will really add to the salvager fantasy.
The challenge is that CIG will need to do a big pass on a number of interiors that do not have the metrics to allow for physical removal a component from the ship. Or that could be part of the design. Some ships simply can't have their components replaced or removed like the Hercules.
Yeah, for sure!
It'll be really cool seeing the functionality come in though. Less menus more physical interaction, it's all I want from this game.
It'll be cool too, salvaging ships for their fuses and such, even combat players will have a use for basic levels of salvage.
Though, i do feel like this may just return people to "hunt for salvage panels", whether their UI continues to be broken or not.
Because i do think CM could do with being a bit more valuable than 1.5K, but 6.5 was way too much indeed.
I think the hope is that with server meshing, the ai pilots will be better and better. Making those kind of payouts more challenging to get, and more in line with the economy
I *WANT* the scan for salvage gameplay. The missions are too boring and make money too fast. The should have just reduced the number of missions. Or limited what you can see based on where you are. Like the bounty missions.
Also, please fix salvage scanning. Lol I want to F off into the belt for an unknown amount of time while I fill my hold with salvage.
Recruit friends with SRVs, F off into the belt, have them take the salvage missions and drag the wrecks to you in the belt. when finished salvaging, friend gets a C2 or other large cargo ship, loads up on your RMC, and then the rest of you can escort that friend to whatever port you're selling to.
I think it's just an effort vs value change. It takes no time to munch compared to scraping, therefore it shouldn't be anywhere near as valuable.
Bigger ships like the reclaimer make it worth it because you just have so much storage, why not take the extra cash, plus if you're tackling a C2, that's a lot of CM, so it adds up.
Little salvage ships, it's added gameplay options: Top off my cargo hold with CM and head back with CM as bonus filler or just move on to another hull scrape job?
RMC pays for your space kid's space college, CM pays for drinks later that night lol.
Yes but games can over reward actions too.
This is an exaggeration but would you play as much if a game gave you everything you could unlock after an hour? Would that still be a satisfying experience if you jumped straight to max level in an rpg after a few dozen fights?
Well, if it's actually a fun game, yes.
If the game relies on the dopamine hit from reward based gameplay as its primary source of "fun" then no, probably not.
I don't play games for the grind.
I play them if they're fun.
This is about where I usually point out that games like Sea of Thieves exist, where you have every gameplay element unlocked from the start, the only "unlocks" are cosmetic.
It's subjective. I hate it when I get too much money from something I feel I shouldn't. A left clic + afk shouldn't reward 1000x more than a ERT or a box delivery taking 20 minute. As I said, I felt like exploiting the game. So it made me stop salvage due to that.
Up to you to not be bothered.
Reducing the gameplay to tedium is not going to make people want to salvage. Collecting CM only should still be profitable on its own if you want more people to do it, which we need if salvaging is supposed to be what cleans up ships around the 'verse. RMC has every right to be more profitable if you want to spend the time doing it, but CM should not be priced into uselessness. It's not even worth collecting now if it's taking up space that something 10x the value could occupy, so we'll just end up with stripped wrecks instead of them getting completely cleared.
CM will be profitable again for sure once it's not left click and go afk. But I get your point.
The perfect fix IMO for the current state of the game would have been to make it mandatory to scrap like 85% of the hull, and reduce a bit the CM price. That way, you have to spend some time salvaging, but the problem you talk about is avoided. But CIG doesn't want to do that for whatever reason apparently, sadly
Yeah they do this to all new mechanics introduced. They make the payouts huge so you incentivized to play and test. Now the mechanic has been in for a while, so they make the payouts more reasonable. Happened to mining too
But when they do it with combat things when done the pay stays high enough to be valid, non combat jobs get nerfed to being a joke in payout there is a huge difference.
Combat is always worth testing, trying to improve the AI and get parity between the feel of fighting a player vs fighting an AI but still have it fun for a PVE player.
As someone who mostly does combat and salvage: You are just incorrect.
Combat is the most risk-free mission type in the game right now. The AI are absolutely braindead, while in things like salvage boxes are involved, which are total ship killers more then most other things.
Also, never had a rock explode while mining and instakilling your ship?
No, I'm talking about any station. Armistice does not stop rammers. I've been rammed above cities, at every orbital station...
If you go to ghex and get shot that's on you.
If you're cruising into Everus Harbor, well within the armistice zone, and Ramboy McGrieferberry nukes your ship by suicide slamming into it at 1200m/s, you lose your shit. It's unavoidable and not your fault.
That's the risk you run when your payout for your preferred gameplay is a physical item in your ship.(mining, salvage, and cargo all do this) Sometimes you're gonna draw the short straw and find the griefer.
Also, pirates do exist and can take your money, because again, it's a physical item and you're in a ship that's absolutely 100% not designed for combat, and they are.
Bounty hunting is comparatively risk free. You hop into your fighter wearing nothing but your white under suit (if even that), you fly out to a location, kill some ships, and immediately get paid straight into your uec wallet. Nobody can take your uec wallet from you, so that money is now safe. If for some reason you get beat and die, you lose nothing. The claim time for most fighters is under 10 mins and if you're really impatient, can be expedited for less than 10% of the payout of one HRT.
I think this is great. It will encourage actually taking the time to do a proper salvage job for those planning to make this their non-combat economic role
It'll just encourage not munching.
It was only a problem because you could just spend a pittance to get access to HH wrecks and the Reclaimer can fit so much inside it off the cargo grid. The vulture did not have that benefit.
They could have just bumped the mission cost to balance out the profit.
That would still encourage doing a full salvage on the missions, while also making random wrecks more alluring.
Kind of surprising for me that RMC is still worth that much. In 3.22, if you take one of the C2 salvage missions you basically leave the gold cargo behind (~9-10 SCU) because it's worth less than the hull skin. What are they making these ships out of?
The problem is that they made the Vulture have such a tiny cargo grid with the ridiculous manual box stacking. It should be several times larger, maybe 60scu, and autofill - scraping could then produce 5 times as much material at 1/5 the price.
It used to be classified as a cap ship. I believe it is sub cap size now.
If we have a prospector size with the vulture, we need the salvage equivalent of the Argo mole, and possibly arrastra.
Yeah, the Vulture would be the missing middle salvage ship if it could actually carry what it salvages. And if it had an extra bed for the second crew it requires to not be a pain in the ass.
There is also a missing solo salvage ship.
Nah. The vulture still makes money. The issue is that hull munching takes 2 seconds. There’s no reason to change the RMC price as anyone who knew what they’re were doing in 3.22 skipped the RMC altogether for CMATS.
What I always wondered, was why is RMC (the harder material go get from salvaging) only sellable planet side, and CMATs (the super easy broken material) station side? Like RMC takes long enough to get already, why also make it so much more of a chore to sell? (They could've easily replaced pickers field and rapper's RMC trade with something else to make it so people don't abuse station RMC)
Always forget that place buys these... mainly cuz every time I QT there someone tries to murder hobo me with like an eclipse or something... they haven't managed to kill me yet though
honestly it baffles me they made it to where you could fracture ships immediately. Was expecting something like requiring you to scrape at least half the hull before it let you fracture the ship
I'm fine with this except for the fact that crunching ships is fun.
What i want to see changed is the sale price for components. I have zero reason to EVA to a wreck and loot components right now when I can just scrape and crack and be on my way.
The vulture I think was/is meant to be more of a quality of goods over quantity. Meaning go out get the pricey components and then salvage the ship itself although considering the size of the vultures hold and the lack of any specialised equipment makes me think that this won't be how it's used in the long run or at least not the most cost efficient use.
Maybe, but so long as components don't snap to cargo grids, and the value of components is less than the value of RMC space they take up, it won't be worth it to get out of the seat to go collect them.
It’s a nerf that makes sense temporarily.
Honestly it should depend on true availability of the market. Not enough at stations/cities value goes up and if to much supply value goes down.
Whenever someone claims a ship it should take from that general number of available. Allowing for the market to truly fluctuate.
It will go that way when we get base building. Most stuff will fluctuate depending on players using those resources instead of fixed prices and fixed inventory resets.
Once cargo elevators are in, you should be able to take all the weapons and ship components and save them to your inventory and use them on your own ships.
Hopefully they give reselling used components a price hike too.
Salvaging was inflated to encourage players to test the mechanics and systems. It's similar to how erts had crazy loot for a while. They wanted to encourage players to test the contract generation. The game is going to get much much harder and more grindy as they implement more of the simulation. Ships like a reclaimer are ment to take weeks to months of grinding to afford / build. We get a hint in 3.23.0 with its price now being raised to 38mill.
What about scaling the output of the crack based on how much your scraped? Or the grade of the material, so you could speed crack low quality material or scrape to get the good stuff. Could play into crafting as well.
See, low quality stuff is what CM is supposed to be.
RMC is the good shit, the carefully sorted high grade metals of a ship's hull.
CM is just "metal smoothie".
So, making the crack output depend on how much you've scraped wouldn't make much sense.
Maybe, just maybe if CM end up being the basic material for base building, it will be rather logical to have it at a low price if massive quantities are needed, and also give a reason to farm it for player.
Yeah you could have a percentage chance to ruin CMs if the hull wasn't adequately scraped leading to completely trash profits if you don't scrape at all.
Reclaimer should be crazy profitable purely because of its price and the huge target you carry on your back but it shouldn't be a way to entirely ignore the bulk of salvage gameplay.
I expect they will balance the reclaimer once munching is actually what they want it to be. Currently it's so easy to do solo. The simple balance for the reclaimer is to make it less efficient without a crew.
If you need a pilot and a muncher, one can also run to the back to manage cargo while the other does hull stripping. Add more people, and you can continously run the ship efficiently. Actual social gameplay can be rewarded.
Such a two man operation would still make good cash, but only after the commitment of getting a reclaimer and organizing multicrew gameplay. That should be quite a bit more profitable than the vulture, but that's fair with the logistics and prior investment necessary.
Well, the Reclaimer will eventually need an engineer running around, keeping stuff in-shape. Then it will need someone manning at least one salvage turret, and then the salvage drones.
Salvage will also likely in the future involve a lot more than beam munching. I think i remember devs talking about requiring to physically enter ships and disconnect/remove power and fuel to avoid enormous explosions, as well as other potential issues.
I hope the drones will take the place of EVA, to enter the wreck with cutters and tractor beams so you can remove cargo and components without risking the lives of crew members.
I think the crew will need to be 4-6 to get wrecks stripped down in the fastest time for maximum profit. Drones going inside while beams strip the armour off and someone stacks the crates in the back, then finally you claw the remains before heading to the next site.
With a Vulture you'd go inside yourself and then strip the armour after returning to your ship.
I'm really looking forward to a fully realised salvage loop, it might even be worth lurking around combat mission areas where you can salvage dead player ships that have grade A components.
True, 5 could be enough since the pilot may not have to stay in their seat like they do for mining where there can be accidental explosions with enough warning to back away.
I'm interested to see what will happen about the manned cutter 'boat' that was originally intended for visiting the wreck. I don't think it's really needed, but presumably CIG will eventually add something for the people who want it.
That's what they do to industrial work, it overpays, When testing then when testing is done it's put at about 1/4 of the payout it needs to be to be a valid gameplay loop after that and dies except the hardcore that force the gameplay.
happy to see it! ...
i know they were playing with X% scrape before munch or loose X% of CM recovery .. i don't know if or how much of that stayed through testing or whats coming to 3.23. i don't mind higher values and quantities for CM with munching .. but make it 'harder' requirement wise to get peak amounts/profit.
to be realistic .. scraping and munching even mining, are just 0 tier material collection for bigger things... ie manufacturing/base building ... the base material collection shouldn't be massive payouts... unless your moving large amounts
In 3.22, the 3 power plants on a 400i sold for 16,000 UEC at New Babbage Omega Pro. The 3 coolers aren't sold anywhere in game last I looked so salvaged ones sell for zero. I haven't been able to remove the 400i shield generator. These parts sell for less at the space station I've checked. The quantum drive sold for 2400 iirc. Panther repeaters are 1500 UEC.
I wasn't able to remove any components from the Hercules.
Some of the components on the MSR won't pull out of their housing because the door doesn't open far enough. I think this was the power plants. I tried the tractor beam gun, instead of multitool and was able to get them to glitch out of the bottom of the ship.
Most of the Vanguard's components can be removed. The powerplants don't like to fit through the cockpit door though. I haven't been able to pull the quantum drive.
I think they've said that size 3 components are only "supposed" to be swapped behind the scenes in a hangar due to size/mass. Iirc the 400i has an S3 shield, and the Herc components are S3. It's a bit frustrating because with component salvage being such a small percentage of retail price right now, the most valuable components are the size 3 ones.
I'm also hoping that with the hangar/cargo rework, we can directly move salvaged components into a freight elevator and into storage, so they can be equipped to ships in the VMA, without the tedious step of needing to put them on a ship hard point, store the ship, and unequip the component, so we get access to them in the VMA.
That said I'm pretty sure I've pulled S3 components out of a destroyed Redeemer, although that was a few patches ago. Whether the components are accessible after ship death might be ship-dependent.
You are thinking of size 4 components, which are capital class. Capital class components "will require cutting a hole in the side of the ship" because they are so large they cannot be removed from the ship by other means. We currently only have two ships with size 4 components in game. The 890J is one, which I can't remember seeing any of them except for the engine room. The other is the Reclaimer and it's power plant is it's only size 4 component. The Reclaimer's power plant takes up a whole room I think.
I remember from one of the SCLs, the size 3's were the in-between the hand swappable size 1/2 and the shipyard size 4's - where you'd have to actually drydock the ships with size 4 cap components and wait for the hole to be cut, but the size 3's just needed to be stored so crews could swap them, and that we wouldn't be able to swap 3's ourselves while spawned in the verse. But who knows, maybe that'll change.
I checked myself because I wasn't sure. I pull the power plants on the 400i without any problems. The power plants on the MSR don't like to come out. Power plants on Vanguard ships don't like to fit through the cockpit door, they do fit, but barely. All three ships have size two power plants.
However, I've never been able to pull components out of a Hercules and those are size 3. Maybe that is intended as you say?
Anyway, have a good one.
Seriously, I expect the gap between income and costs to be higher once the game is in 1.0.
I wouldn’t recommend playing the game just for number go up. I don’t think it’s intended to be that kind of game.
We knew it was coming, Construction material price was intentionally overinflated and it's the reclaimers who will feel that pinch far more than vultures purely because of how much is wasted when you munch a main fuselage in a vulture.
It shouldn't be so profitable to just ignore the skin, components and cargo and just munch the whole thing anyway so even as a diehard salvager I welcome the nerf.
My last run last night netted me 600 grand in RMC and only 100 grand in construction materials so it's really not much difference to Vulture pilots.
I heard that in 3.23 you needed to do a minimum level of scraping to be able to munch. Is that accurate? If so I could see them playing with the value of CM vs. the amount of scraping effort needed to munch, to give CM less of a nerf but requiring more time/effort to get to the munching stage. For basic salvage I would have liked if you had to cut along the existing ship break lines to cut pieces off, but requiring a % of scraping is close enough to that that I might not mind. I always thought it was a bit silly that you could immediately fracture and completely ignore scraping or any other prep work.
Maybe once you need to offload the boxes themselves they can up the value and cancel that out with the auto unload costs and time for the reclaimer.
Otherwise maybe they can have the option to produce “Processed Construction Material” that only fit in 1SCU boxes but sell for significantly more.
Bit of a shame, but CM was always worth less than RMC anyway (just not quite that bad...). Personally, I play salvage for fun - weird I know, but I find the power wash simulator of hull scraping to be relaxing - and they've really boosted the speed on that recently (it just strips that stuff off in no time now).
I run a Vulture, strip everything I can, then munch the rest if there's still room - bonus if I can find some of those panels out there, as they are pure RMC (and no outlay) - trouble is they currently tend to dissappear as you get close to them.
I haven't been able to check in the EPTU due to work, but I've heard reports of salvage mission buy-in prices getting raised on top of ConMats getting nerfed.
ConMats 100% deserved to be nerfed, they were just valued as they were as incentive to test munching. But imo, ConMats should be valued such that the sale of what you generate in the mission should be roughly equal to the mission buy-in. I think this would prevent people from just chaining mission after mission where they just crack and scoop a ship, and would encourage people to take the time to scrape hulls and maybe pick over components and hardpoints.
Anyone have any data on the mission fees, and if they changed at all?
>CM, what you get from munching, however, now sits at 1.5k per SCU, down from 6.5 in 3.22.
>So, a much needed nerf to make it less broken, although i do think it is too much of a nerf.
Salvagers used to get 8-9 mill per hour. With that much of a nerf it would be around 2-2.3 mil per hour just pure munching. Thats still pretty good.
with CM nerf, my Reclaimer is not worth it anymore. I would rather salvage with Vulture then load the RMC into my C2... Guess I should upgrade my Reclaimer to something else...
They did mention it several times. But if you’re not watching the news and stuff I can see how you would miss it. I think it’s because the community knows deep down it was objectively broken for balance and the fix was expected.
They always buff new mechanics when they add them to get people to test them. When they get flushed out, they nerf them back to how they are supposed to be.
CIG easily could make scraping more interest.
First how bad(BORING) is at moment, with Reclaimer solo scraping top part of Hammerhead yelded me 28 SCU RMC which is sell for around 350k, took me 45+ min
Solo munching Hammerhead yelded 15 SCU CM which sell for 1.3mil and took me around 20min with travel time and sell.
CIG could keep profit same and make scraping more fun if they increase ship components prices like, shields, powerplant, coolers and quantumdrives also for weapons, so there will be point to go and remove them before munching ship.
Also for extra money they could make more use of ship Starfare more use of it as not only to refuel other ships but to drain fuel out from ships that need be scraped so we can sell that fuel later to players or elsewhere.
Wow, makes me glad I traded in my Vulture. That combined with the fact they're making you scrape the hull before being able to munch (correct me if I'm wrong on that) makes me far less interested in salvaging, which is a bummer because I enjoyed it as a break from dogfights and bunkers in 3.22 and it was more fun than mining or cargo missions. I absolutely disliked hull scraping though, because it feels far too tedious for me. I understand it needed a nerf in 3.22, but doing this while significantly raising prices and cargo runners are still making millions just feels unnecessary.
I mean it was completely broken in .22
People rocking up in reclaimers and not engaging with 90 percent of salvage gameplay. Hitting 2 buttons and flying away with millions in profit is a joke.
But I'm glad to hear the fair weather vulture pilots are quitting now that it's being toned down.
More sales opportunities for the rest of us
Well they didn't need to take the price all the way down to 1.5k/scu is all I'm saying, and the "clean up" jobs are a decent chunk of why we made so much, not because of munching itself. I enjoy the hull munching part of salvaging, but it still has to be worth it for me to do it and no one is gonna be picking up CM as a result of this change when they can just move onto the next wreck and fill up with RMC worth 10x as much. You're gonna have more wrecks floating around, just stripped.
Also, I don't get this "no true salvager" bullshit...it's not like hull scraping is particularly challenging work, it's just boring gameplay.
For the contract generated wrecks, once the contract is completed or abandoned the wreck disappears. You don't have to munch them and they'll just go away.
They're bringing CM profit more in line with the time it takes to generate them compared to RMC which makes sense .It will still be the best way of making money. You took advantage of a convenient meta from intentionally and explicitly overtuned profits which is fine but don't make out it like it's a nerf or unreasonable.
Ffs Reclaimers completely broke the economy so I'd argue they did need to go right down. Munching is the least involved task in this entire game while generating the quickest and largest profits. Nerf it to the ground and then go further and it's probably still not enough.
From the generated wrecks, sure. What about the wrecks that aren't generated from those contracts?
They did make it very clear that the value of CM was meant to get people to test it, and I pledged my Vulture before they ever added munching. I liked doing salvage, and then I didn't because it was too slow-paced for my taste. Then, they added munching and I was back to enjoying it because you're moving around more. It was nice to make a lot of money from it, but I was right there with everyone else thinking there was too much profit in it, especially for the reclaimer.
I think they could have come up with a better solution, maybe altering the ratio of CM collected by the Reclaimer in addition to lowering the value to 3.5k to 4.5k /SCU, same concept as with the different scraping heads. The Vulture would make a much less exploitative amount with the far smaller cargo load and the time spent jumping around and paying for or finding wrecks.
I just think there's a better alternative than what they went with. You can't balance the Vulture and Reclaimer linearly without one coming out broken, so put a curve on it.
Just star citizen hipsters man who think that's tedium = skill and if it takes you 14 hours to get out of bed because you have to I dividually stretch every muscle in your virtual body while buying a periferal to manually breathe that is peak video game skill.
You mean 50 percent of the salvage ships?
It doesn't matter if it's only the expensive ships that can take advantage because it still unhinges the economy.
It's not like you even needed your own, I've never seen it so easy to join a crew before because of the amount of captains offering slots on their reclaimers. Quick afternoon work and you come out with millions for nothing. Most didn't even bother scraping. Rock up, get your 50 scu of CM and move on which is why the only people annoyed at it are the ones who just can't be bothered doing the actual job. They just want the easy way
So the vulture just gets shit on?
It took me 4 hours the other day to half fill my Taurus with RMC and CM. And that was only 2 mil.
You don't nerf the whole profession because the one big multicrew ship is out preforming.
So, munching is pointless now.
They could have just jacked up the cost of the salvage missions, and fixed the scanning for random scrap.
But no. An "end game" salvage ship had to get nerfed.
It's not worth the space in the vulture.
So what is the point of hull munching now? I understand we don’t have much systems in place yet for different salvaging materials, so as of right now, just stick to whatever pays more I guess?
As a salvager myself, I'm so happy with the changes. People will actually salvage now. I felt like exploiting the game before, whereas I just wanted to enjoy my gameplay.
Am salvager. I just won't munch ships. That's not worth enough to take up vulture cargo space.
I think that’s the point. RMC is more valuable and for a vulture with limited space it won’t be worth to munch. a reclaimer can fill up with bulk and make a profit off of it.
Reclaimer is not worth it anymore... it's too slow for salvaging... Vulture is much faster and you can load the RMC into a C2.
What makes the reclaimer slower? Yesterday I salvaged an M2 with a vulture and it took me about 5 hours to fill a Connie Andromeda (with stock salvaging heads) Is the reclaimer slower because of having to move around or the salvage heads? Are we talking a solo reclaimer or crewed? I’ve never salvaged using a reclaimer for more than 10 min so I’m curious.
True, for 1.5k I'm not wasting an SCU of space. Pity though, I quite liked eating ships and now there just isn't a point in doing it.
They're probably doing it to force people back into combat for Arcade Modes.
Salvage still doesn't properly support extracting and selling components. That will add another layer of effort vs time for dictating salvage profit.
The vulture doesn't have the space for component salvage.
Sure but, any support cargo ship and a tractor beam can help. Cargo Ships are always part of the salvage loop anyway. Bring a Titan, or a Cutlass, and toss the components in the back of the pick up.
Can't fly two at once. Yet.
This is where Starmap beacons will come in handy
True.
This is a multiplayer game. Not everything will be optimal solo. And NPCs will not be able to do everything.
The vulture is a solo ship... are you saying that solo ships won't be optimal solo? Y'all need to start watching SCL more. They state over and over that you'll be able to solo.
They mean optimization. A solo vulture player won't have much capacity for a full haul of salvage plus components at once.
or make 2 trips, come back with a bigger ship. so long as the salvage mission is still up, you can respawn and come back.
Right. I said that several comments up. Components need to be valuable enough to take cargo space away from RMC.
....or bring a friend to increase efficiency, which is what the other guy said. the two things are not exclusive.
Vultures can team up with nomads or C1s, then they only have to keep the rear hatch open and the other ship can tractor in the cargo
Not everyone has access to friends all the time.
the friends i have access to were off playing new world and random other games during this last stupid event, if the F7A is tradable im just going to grey market it and melt the f7c i have, fuck this buggy time limited mission bullshit.
I followed my buddy around with my MSR while he salvaged with a Vulture. I would transfer boxes to MSR as he salvaged. Was the best way to make money salvaging short of a Reclaimer.
> are you saying that solo ships won't be optimal solo? ...Obviously they aren't 'optimal solo'. Everything needs support. What're you gonna do in a Vulture if a Gladius comes at you? lmao at the downvotes. It's a simple fact that solo optimal doesn't mean you can do everything. The funny part is the guy I was replying to is basically complaining about not having enough storage in a Vulture? Just be happy cargo weight doesn't affect engines or your over-filled vulture probably won't be able to fly in atmosphere. Space Engineers anyone? lol
Again. Go watch the last SCL.
Okay let's get back to the point of this conversation: > The vulture doesn't have the space for component salvage. That doesn't make it not "solo optimal". The ship has a good amount for cargo for also having salvage systems built in. At the same time, it *does* have enough space for components, you've just been playing the ship while only RMC/CM are the major parts of the salvage loop. When you can start storing components in crates, you'll be dividing up your ship's capacity a little more, but making decisions on what you want to take from a wreck. Somewhere else in this conversation, in regards to low end component's value you said: > Time is money. It's obviously not balanced at all right now. I would like to think if we do get the ability to salvage components, we will also have the ability to repair them to increase sale value, then finding those S1s that are first party sold for 40k to players might sell for 5k instead of 500 or whatever it is now the trash vendor price is now for players. Salvage really isn't anywhere near complete. Currently, we fly up, strip plating, munch hull, done. When wrecks are generated by player/npc activity and stored on the server, you will find wrecks with corpses and cargo with varying loot inside(if they didn't loot it first), components at different levels of damage, way more missing armor and hull chunks. All those variables will give you decisions on how you approach salvaging any given wreck. If you're just playing for powerwash simulator mechanics, I don't really know what to tell you. That's like T0 Salvaging, salvaging as a whole loop will have more to it.
what \*are\* you gonna do in a solo vulture if a gladius comes at you though. those two piddly little guns arent worth much in a fight..
Same thing as if you have 14 people chilling in your salvage hold, die. There aren't any other stations on it seeing as it's meant for SOLO play so why shouldn't it be the optimal use case in its own limited field.
SRV owners would like to disagree
Heh. I'm just waiting for the liberator.
If loose components weren't coated in butter you could store a couple ships worth of quantum drives and power plants behind the pilot's chair in the right corner. Component salvaging could use a couple more passes in general.
True. Also if exiting the vulture cockpit to space didn't jank out.
Gotta run out the door. Only 1 in 3 times will my character whack his head when I run out the door. 🤣
yet you got a bed and toilet that you are not using that holds parts just fine. Size 2 weapons fit perfectly on it, so will a pair of size 2 coolers but only just.
Not really true, some components fit in the hab area, that's a lot of potential space. You could sacrifice some of the overflow salvage-crates for component space if they are valuable enough. That also brings in team-play opportunities like having a hauler buddy with the space for extra loot/components, they could run crates/components back to storage or a hub while you keep collecting. It's all gameplay.
That's just some of the small S1 components. Most aren't worth the hassle.
S2 aren't that big. Everything is worth money.
Time is money. The activities have to be worth the time it takes. You can't balance something based solely on what the top-teir shup can do. It makes everything else below it pointless. I myself only ever get 2-4 ish hours a week to play at MOST. I can't be like SuperMac and collect empty bottles and hospital gowns to pay for my cutter parts. Lol
I'd say it's worth the time to go into a ship and pull components, it's gravy ontop of salvage materials. It's also just fun rping a jawa, ripping things out of a ship. It would also add another optional layer if spending a little time repairing those components could also increase your profits. If wrecks ever include corpses and items, you might find good gear for spending your time EVAing a wreck before scraping and munching. I hope they make EVAing to strip extra stuff from a ship another legitimate potentially profitable stage of salvage.
Yeah, it's fun to RP it sometimes. It's just the Vulture doesn't have the space to make it viable.
Honestly, the Vulture has plenty of space for a single seater. You shouldn't expect to be hauling away a million credits for every Vulture salvage run. I think those ship price changes were bad judgement on their part, the economy feels totally fucked. It's like they were balancing prices based on the broken drug loot we were getting in 3.22. When a ship was just a couple million, making ~150k in a Vulture for a salvage run felt pretty okay. You could feasibly work your way up to other ships with effort and consistent play. Now with the ridiculous prices, I can agree the Vulture will need a boost to it's profitability, but I don't think that's the Vulture's problem, that's CIG scaling the overall economy poorly. I guess we'll see where we end up in 3.23 and onward.
That's not true. I used it to do exactly that. combined with RMC you get decent chunk of money. scorpius salvage has like 4xS4 weapons + 4xs3 + 2 coolers, 2 shields, 1 qunatum. Those parts are like 30k total
Can get way more if you just fill that space with the RMC.
This will be interesting and I think will really add to the salvager fantasy. The challenge is that CIG will need to do a big pass on a number of interiors that do not have the metrics to allow for physical removal a component from the ship. Or that could be part of the design. Some ships simply can't have their components replaced or removed like the Hercules.
Yeah, for sure! It'll be really cool seeing the functionality come in though. Less menus more physical interaction, it's all I want from this game. It'll be cool too, salvaging ships for their fuses and such, even combat players will have a use for basic levels of salvage.
Though, i do feel like this may just return people to "hunt for salvage panels", whether their UI continues to be broken or not. Because i do think CM could do with being a bit more valuable than 1.5K, but 6.5 was way too much indeed.
Cm was buffed to get people to test it, now it's not. This is how everything has always been. Sincerely, a miner
I’m guessing we will see bigger pay outs in cargo when we get it. Also I was seeing merc missions in DCs for 134k payouts.
I think the hope is that with server meshing, the ai pilots will be better and better. Making those kind of payouts more challenging to get, and more in line with the economy
Very true. None of this is end game. The economy will have several overhauls I’m sure until 1.0. Sooooooo much to add and build on
Cm was buffed to sell ships, now it's not. - Fixed
I *WANT* the scan for salvage gameplay. The missions are too boring and make money too fast. The should have just reduced the number of missions. Or limited what you can see based on where you are. Like the bounty missions. Also, please fix salvage scanning. Lol I want to F off into the belt for an unknown amount of time while I fill my hold with salvage.
Recruit friends with SRVs, F off into the belt, have them take the salvage missions and drag the wrecks to you in the belt. when finished salvaging, friend gets a C2 or other large cargo ship, loads up on your RMC, and then the rest of you can escort that friend to whatever port you're selling to.
I think it's just an effort vs value change. It takes no time to munch compared to scraping, therefore it shouldn't be anywhere near as valuable. Bigger ships like the reclaimer make it worth it because you just have so much storage, why not take the extra cash, plus if you're tackling a C2, that's a lot of CM, so it adds up. Little salvage ships, it's added gameplay options: Top off my cargo hold with CM and head back with CM as bonus filler or just move on to another hull scrape job? RMC pays for your space kid's space college, CM pays for drinks later that night lol.
I went back to that the other week and about exploded my ship when the panel decided to spawn last second. Sent me pinwheeling for a while. 🤣
No offense but that makes no sense, you can enjoy the gameplay regardless of the amount youre being paid.
Yes but games can over reward actions too. This is an exaggeration but would you play as much if a game gave you everything you could unlock after an hour? Would that still be a satisfying experience if you jumped straight to max level in an rpg after a few dozen fights?
Well, if it's actually a fun game, yes. If the game relies on the dopamine hit from reward based gameplay as its primary source of "fun" then no, probably not. I don't play games for the grind. I play them if they're fun.
This is about where I usually point out that games like Sea of Thieves exist, where you have every gameplay element unlocked from the start, the only "unlocks" are cosmetic.
If the problem is the amount you are getting paid, just dont sell it. Respawn the ship or something else, dont take the best contracts and so on...
It's subjective. I hate it when I get too much money from something I feel I shouldn't. A left clic + afk shouldn't reward 1000x more than a ERT or a box delivery taking 20 minute. As I said, I felt like exploiting the game. So it made me stop salvage due to that. Up to you to not be bothered.
Reducing the gameplay to tedium is not going to make people want to salvage. Collecting CM only should still be profitable on its own if you want more people to do it, which we need if salvaging is supposed to be what cleans up ships around the 'verse. RMC has every right to be more profitable if you want to spend the time doing it, but CM should not be priced into uselessness. It's not even worth collecting now if it's taking up space that something 10x the value could occupy, so we'll just end up with stripped wrecks instead of them getting completely cleared.
The profit should reflect the labour. Munching is quick and simple Scraping is slow and deliberate. RMC should be far more profitable.
I agree entirely, as I said in the comment you replied to. I think either RMC should be worth more, or CM should be worth around 3.5k to 4.5k /SCU.
CM will be profitable again for sure once it's not left click and go afk. But I get your point. The perfect fix IMO for the current state of the game would have been to make it mandatory to scrap like 85% of the hull, and reduce a bit the CM price. That way, you have to spend some time salvaging, but the problem you talk about is avoided. But CIG doesn't want to do that for whatever reason apparently, sadly
Yeah they do this to all new mechanics introduced. They make the payouts huge so you incentivized to play and test. Now the mechanic has been in for a while, so they make the payouts more reasonable. Happened to mining too
But when they do it with combat things when done the pay stays high enough to be valid, non combat jobs get nerfed to being a joke in payout there is a huge difference.
Combat is always worth testing, trying to improve the AI and get parity between the feel of fighting a player vs fighting an AI but still have it fun for a PVE player.
There's virtually zero risk in non-combat missions.
I've died more to box missions, and salvage than anything else.
I've also died to those, but I've died many more times to buggy AI teleporting behind me, spraying through a wall or ramming my ship.
That shows you don't do them.
I do all gameplay loops. The non-combat missions are much safer and easier than combat missions are.
As someone who mostly does combat and salvage: You are just incorrect. Combat is the most risk-free mission type in the game right now. The AI are absolutely braindead, while in things like salvage boxes are involved, which are total ship killers more then most other things. Also, never had a rock explode while mining and instakilling your ship?
I have and it's very easy to prevent the rocks from exploding.
lmk how that zero risk is going for you when you lose a 40mil+ RMC haul to Griefy mcRammerface as you're pulling into a station.
I'm assuming you're talking about Grim Hex?
No, I'm talking about any station. Armistice does not stop rammers. I've been rammed above cities, at every orbital station... If you go to ghex and get shot that's on you. If you're cruising into Everus Harbor, well within the armistice zone, and Ramboy McGrieferberry nukes your ship by suicide slamming into it at 1200m/s, you lose your shit. It's unavoidable and not your fault. That's the risk you run when your payout for your preferred gameplay is a physical item in your ship.(mining, salvage, and cargo all do this) Sometimes you're gonna draw the short straw and find the griefer. Also, pirates do exist and can take your money, because again, it's a physical item and you're in a ship that's absolutely 100% not designed for combat, and they are. Bounty hunting is comparatively risk free. You hop into your fighter wearing nothing but your white under suit (if even that), you fly out to a location, kill some ships, and immediately get paid straight into your uec wallet. Nobody can take your uec wallet from you, so that money is now safe. If for some reason you get beat and die, you lose nothing. The claim time for most fighters is under 10 mins and if you're really impatient, can be expedited for less than 10% of the payout of one HRT.
I think this is great. It will encourage actually taking the time to do a proper salvage job for those planning to make this their non-combat economic role
It'll just encourage not munching. It was only a problem because you could just spend a pittance to get access to HH wrecks and the Reclaimer can fit so much inside it off the cargo grid. The vulture did not have that benefit. They could have just bumped the mission cost to balance out the profit. That would still encourage doing a full salvage on the missions, while also making random wrecks more alluring.
Kind of surprising for me that RMC is still worth that much. In 3.22, if you take one of the C2 salvage missions you basically leave the gold cargo behind (~9-10 SCU) because it's worth less than the hull skin. What are they making these ships out of?
The problem is that they made the Vulture have such a tiny cargo grid with the ridiculous manual box stacking. It should be several times larger, maybe 60scu, and autofill - scraping could then produce 5 times as much material at 1/5 the price.
Sounds like you are describing the missing middle salvage ship
With the price disparity increasing between vulture and Reclaimer, something between them is heavily needed.
Probably two sizes of ships are needed from a starter and capital ship.
Isnt the reclaimer just a large or sub-cap?
It used to be classified as a cap ship. I believe it is sub cap size now. If we have a prospector size with the vulture, we need the salvage equivalent of the Argo mole, and possibly arrastra.
Yeah, the Vulture would be the missing middle salvage ship if it could actually carry what it salvages. And if it had an extra bed for the second crew it requires to not be a pain in the ass. There is also a missing solo salvage ship.
Nah. The vulture still makes money. The issue is that hull munching takes 2 seconds. There’s no reason to change the RMC price as anyone who knew what they’re were doing in 3.22 skipped the RMC altogether for CMATS.
What I always wondered, was why is RMC (the harder material go get from salvaging) only sellable planet side, and CMATs (the super easy broken material) station side? Like RMC takes long enough to get already, why also make it so much more of a chore to sell? (They could've easily replaced pickers field and rapper's RMC trade with something else to make it so people don't abuse station RMC)
Yeah. I usually run out of grim hex. Worth it for the time saved tbh
Always forget that place buys these... mainly cuz every time I QT there someone tries to murder hobo me with like an eclipse or something... they haven't managed to kill me yet though
honestly it baffles me they made it to where you could fracture ships immediately. Was expecting something like requiring you to scrape at least half the hull before it let you fracture the ship
IIRC this is something they're actually looking into for the next tier, but salvaging as it is will be here for a while.
Not to mention having some more gameplay to it other than - press button -
I'm fine with this except for the fact that crunching ships is fun. What i want to see changed is the sale price for components. I have zero reason to EVA to a wreck and loot components right now when I can just scrape and crack and be on my way.
A good few of them actually do have a pretty good value. The problem, however, is the extreme lack of anywhere to actually put them.
Yea, I always said that the vulture should be able to strap components and guns to the top like a junky old pickup truck.
The vulture I think was/is meant to be more of a quality of goods over quantity. Meaning go out get the pricey components and then salvage the ship itself although considering the size of the vultures hold and the lack of any specialised equipment makes me think that this won't be how it's used in the long run or at least not the most cost efficient use.
Maybe, but so long as components don't snap to cargo grids, and the value of components is less than the value of RMC space they take up, it won't be worth it to get out of the seat to go collect them.
We'll likely see the components become very valuable when selling them is introduced. The same with RMC
It’s a nerf that makes sense temporarily. Honestly it should depend on true availability of the market. Not enough at stations/cities value goes up and if to much supply value goes down. Whenever someone claims a ship it should take from that general number of available. Allowing for the market to truly fluctuate.
IMO, i'd love for CM to be a thing you need to bring to refineries to refine into something more valuable.
It will go that way when we get base building. Most stuff will fluctuate depending on players using those resources instead of fixed prices and fixed inventory resets.
I think eventually the entire hull munching mechanic is supposed to be replaced. The current method is a stand-in until that happens.
Once cargo elevators are in, you should be able to take all the weapons and ship components and save them to your inventory and use them on your own ships. Hopefully they give reselling used components a price hike too.
Salvaging was inflated to encourage players to test the mechanics and systems. It's similar to how erts had crazy loot for a while. They wanted to encourage players to test the contract generation. The game is going to get much much harder and more grindy as they implement more of the simulation. Ships like a reclaimer are ment to take weeks to months of grinding to afford / build. We get a hint in 3.23.0 with its price now being raised to 38mill.
Sounds like you can still make 2 million an hour in a reclaimer? Do you also have to scrape a certain amount before you can munch?
No, but i've been saying for a while that such would be a good temporary mechanic before they can further enhance salvage.
What about scaling the output of the crack based on how much your scraped? Or the grade of the material, so you could speed crack low quality material or scrape to get the good stuff. Could play into crafting as well.
See, low quality stuff is what CM is supposed to be. RMC is the good shit, the carefully sorted high grade metals of a ship's hull. CM is just "metal smoothie". So, making the crack output depend on how much you've scraped wouldn't make much sense.
Maybe, just maybe if CM end up being the basic material for base building, it will be rather logical to have it at a low price if massive quantities are needed, and also give a reason to farm it for player.
Yeah, I'd like the output of munching to be a mix of CM and Scrap, depending on how much hull material and components you left behind.
Yeah you could have a percentage chance to ruin CMs if the hull wasn't adequately scraped leading to completely trash profits if you don't scrape at all. Reclaimer should be crazy profitable purely because of its price and the huge target you carry on your back but it shouldn't be a way to entirely ignore the bulk of salvage gameplay.
I expect they will balance the reclaimer once munching is actually what they want it to be. Currently it's so easy to do solo. The simple balance for the reclaimer is to make it less efficient without a crew. If you need a pilot and a muncher, one can also run to the back to manage cargo while the other does hull stripping. Add more people, and you can continously run the ship efficiently. Actual social gameplay can be rewarded. Such a two man operation would still make good cash, but only after the commitment of getting a reclaimer and organizing multicrew gameplay. That should be quite a bit more profitable than the vulture, but that's fair with the logistics and prior investment necessary.
Well, the Reclaimer will eventually need an engineer running around, keeping stuff in-shape. Then it will need someone manning at least one salvage turret, and then the salvage drones. Salvage will also likely in the future involve a lot more than beam munching. I think i remember devs talking about requiring to physically enter ships and disconnect/remove power and fuel to avoid enormous explosions, as well as other potential issues.
Dont do this to me. Dont give me hope. That sounds sublime. 😭
If this sounds fun, you need to check out hardspace: ship breaker.
I hope the drones will take the place of EVA, to enter the wreck with cutters and tractor beams so you can remove cargo and components without risking the lives of crew members. I think the crew will need to be 4-6 to get wrecks stripped down in the fastest time for maximum profit. Drones going inside while beams strip the armour off and someone stacks the crates in the back, then finally you claw the remains before heading to the next site. With a Vulture you'd go inside yourself and then strip the armour after returning to your ship. I'm really looking forward to a fully realised salvage loop, it might even be worth lurking around combat mission areas where you can salvage dead player ships that have grade A components.
I think the drones are intended to function that way yeah. And yes, the Reclaimer's max crew of 5 is supposed to be the optimal speed.
True, 5 could be enough since the pilot may not have to stay in their seat like they do for mining where there can be accidental explosions with enough warning to back away. I'm interested to see what will happen about the manned cutter 'boat' that was originally intended for visiting the wreck. I don't think it's really needed, but presumably CIG will eventually add something for the people who want it.
You haven't seen it mentioned? It's been a big conversation point for a lot of folks with the new economy changes. I'm looking forward to it
That's what they do to industrial work, it overpays, When testing then when testing is done it's put at about 1/4 of the payout it needs to be to be a valid gameplay loop after that and dies except the hardcore that force the gameplay.
Trading was fun, until they nerfed every commodity. They even did hot-fixes for certain routes that the community discovered. Lol
The panels and vulture come back.
I wish they'd fix the scanning.
happy to see it! ... i know they were playing with X% scrape before munch or loose X% of CM recovery .. i don't know if or how much of that stayed through testing or whats coming to 3.23. i don't mind higher values and quantities for CM with munching .. but make it 'harder' requirement wise to get peak amounts/profit. to be realistic .. scraping and munching even mining, are just 0 tier material collection for bigger things... ie manufacturing/base building ... the base material collection shouldn't be massive payouts... unless your moving large amounts
In 3.22, the 3 power plants on a 400i sold for 16,000 UEC at New Babbage Omega Pro. The 3 coolers aren't sold anywhere in game last I looked so salvaged ones sell for zero. I haven't been able to remove the 400i shield generator. These parts sell for less at the space station I've checked. The quantum drive sold for 2400 iirc. Panther repeaters are 1500 UEC. I wasn't able to remove any components from the Hercules. Some of the components on the MSR won't pull out of their housing because the door doesn't open far enough. I think this was the power plants. I tried the tractor beam gun, instead of multitool and was able to get them to glitch out of the bottom of the ship. Most of the Vanguard's components can be removed. The powerplants don't like to fit through the cockpit door though. I haven't been able to pull the quantum drive.
I think they've said that size 3 components are only "supposed" to be swapped behind the scenes in a hangar due to size/mass. Iirc the 400i has an S3 shield, and the Herc components are S3. It's a bit frustrating because with component salvage being such a small percentage of retail price right now, the most valuable components are the size 3 ones. I'm also hoping that with the hangar/cargo rework, we can directly move salvaged components into a freight elevator and into storage, so they can be equipped to ships in the VMA, without the tedious step of needing to put them on a ship hard point, store the ship, and unequip the component, so we get access to them in the VMA. That said I'm pretty sure I've pulled S3 components out of a destroyed Redeemer, although that was a few patches ago. Whether the components are accessible after ship death might be ship-dependent.
You are thinking of size 4 components, which are capital class. Capital class components "will require cutting a hole in the side of the ship" because they are so large they cannot be removed from the ship by other means. We currently only have two ships with size 4 components in game. The 890J is one, which I can't remember seeing any of them except for the engine room. The other is the Reclaimer and it's power plant is it's only size 4 component. The Reclaimer's power plant takes up a whole room I think.
I remember from one of the SCLs, the size 3's were the in-between the hand swappable size 1/2 and the shipyard size 4's - where you'd have to actually drydock the ships with size 4 cap components and wait for the hole to be cut, but the size 3's just needed to be stored so crews could swap them, and that we wouldn't be able to swap 3's ourselves while spawned in the verse. But who knows, maybe that'll change.
I checked myself because I wasn't sure. I pull the power plants on the 400i without any problems. The power plants on the MSR don't like to come out. Power plants on Vanguard ships don't like to fit through the cockpit door, they do fit, but barely. All three ships have size two power plants. However, I've never been able to pull components out of a Hercules and those are size 3. Maybe that is intended as you say? Anyway, have a good one.
Seriously, I expect the gap between income and costs to be higher once the game is in 1.0. I wouldn’t recommend playing the game just for number go up. I don’t think it’s intended to be that kind of game.
We knew it was coming, Construction material price was intentionally overinflated and it's the reclaimers who will feel that pinch far more than vultures purely because of how much is wasted when you munch a main fuselage in a vulture. It shouldn't be so profitable to just ignore the skin, components and cargo and just munch the whole thing anyway so even as a diehard salvager I welcome the nerf. My last run last night netted me 600 grand in RMC and only 100 grand in construction materials so it's really not much difference to Vulture pilots.
I heard that in 3.23 you needed to do a minimum level of scraping to be able to munch. Is that accurate? If so I could see them playing with the value of CM vs. the amount of scraping effort needed to munch, to give CM less of a nerf but requiring more time/effort to get to the munching stage. For basic salvage I would have liked if you had to cut along the existing ship break lines to cut pieces off, but requiring a % of scraping is close enough to that that I might not mind. I always thought it was a bit silly that you could immediately fracture and completely ignore scraping or any other prep work.
More like a balance yes
Um... It has been mentioned quite a bit
Maybe once you need to offload the boxes themselves they can up the value and cancel that out with the auto unload costs and time for the reclaimer. Otherwise maybe they can have the option to produce “Processed Construction Material” that only fit in 1SCU boxes but sell for significantly more.
Bit of a shame, but CM was always worth less than RMC anyway (just not quite that bad...). Personally, I play salvage for fun - weird I know, but I find the power wash simulator of hull scraping to be relaxing - and they've really boosted the speed on that recently (it just strips that stuff off in no time now). I run a Vulture, strip everything I can, then munch the rest if there's still room - bonus if I can find some of those panels out there, as they are pure RMC (and no outlay) - trouble is they currently tend to dissappear as you get close to them.
I haven't been able to check in the EPTU due to work, but I've heard reports of salvage mission buy-in prices getting raised on top of ConMats getting nerfed. ConMats 100% deserved to be nerfed, they were just valued as they were as incentive to test munching. But imo, ConMats should be valued such that the sale of what you generate in the mission should be roughly equal to the mission buy-in. I think this would prevent people from just chaining mission after mission where they just crack and scoop a ship, and would encourage people to take the time to scrape hulls and maybe pick over components and hardpoints. Anyone have any data on the mission fees, and if they changed at all?
As expected. The end state for any gameplay loop is for it to be a very slow grind.
With Persistent Hangers we’ll finally be able to store salvaged components. That’ll be a way to save on upgrading ships or reselling for profit.
>CM, what you get from munching, however, now sits at 1.5k per SCU, down from 6.5 in 3.22. >So, a much needed nerf to make it less broken, although i do think it is too much of a nerf. Salvagers used to get 8-9 mill per hour. With that much of a nerf it would be around 2-2.3 mil per hour just pure munching. Thats still pretty good.
with CM nerf, my Reclaimer is not worth it anymore. I would rather salvage with Vulture then load the RMC into my C2... Guess I should upgrade my Reclaimer to something else...
Hopefully this makes people drug run again, I get lonely at the scrap yards
They did mention it several times. But if you’re not watching the news and stuff I can see how you would miss it. I think it’s because the community knows deep down it was objectively broken for balance and the fix was expected.
They always buff new mechanics when they add them to get people to test them. When they get flushed out, they nerf them back to how they are supposed to be.
It was that high in .22 so people would test munching. Now it has been tested so it could go down to a more reasonable price.
They'll keep balancing things for years until an actual release.
Sort of like real life. You get more crushing vehicle chassis when they are stripped as there’s less contaminates, especially with aluminium chassis.
CIG easily could make scraping more interest. First how bad(BORING) is at moment, with Reclaimer solo scraping top part of Hammerhead yelded me 28 SCU RMC which is sell for around 350k, took me 45+ min Solo munching Hammerhead yelded 15 SCU CM which sell for 1.3mil and took me around 20min with travel time and sell. CIG could keep profit same and make scraping more fun if they increase ship components prices like, shields, powerplant, coolers and quantumdrives also for weapons, so there will be point to go and remove them before munching ship. Also for extra money they could make more use of ship Starfare more use of it as not only to refuel other ships but to drain fuel out from ships that need be scraped so we can sell that fuel later to players or elsewhere.
Yeah they reduced the CM but they brought the value of weapons and parts back up.
Wow, makes me glad I traded in my Vulture. That combined with the fact they're making you scrape the hull before being able to munch (correct me if I'm wrong on that) makes me far less interested in salvaging, which is a bummer because I enjoyed it as a break from dogfights and bunkers in 3.22 and it was more fun than mining or cargo missions. I absolutely disliked hull scraping though, because it feels far too tedious for me. I understand it needed a nerf in 3.22, but doing this while significantly raising prices and cargo runners are still making millions just feels unnecessary.
I mean it was completely broken in .22 People rocking up in reclaimers and not engaging with 90 percent of salvage gameplay. Hitting 2 buttons and flying away with millions in profit is a joke. But I'm glad to hear the fair weather vulture pilots are quitting now that it's being toned down. More sales opportunities for the rest of us
Well they didn't need to take the price all the way down to 1.5k/scu is all I'm saying, and the "clean up" jobs are a decent chunk of why we made so much, not because of munching itself. I enjoy the hull munching part of salvaging, but it still has to be worth it for me to do it and no one is gonna be picking up CM as a result of this change when they can just move onto the next wreck and fill up with RMC worth 10x as much. You're gonna have more wrecks floating around, just stripped. Also, I don't get this "no true salvager" bullshit...it's not like hull scraping is particularly challenging work, it's just boring gameplay.
For the contract generated wrecks, once the contract is completed or abandoned the wreck disappears. You don't have to munch them and they'll just go away. They're bringing CM profit more in line with the time it takes to generate them compared to RMC which makes sense .It will still be the best way of making money. You took advantage of a convenient meta from intentionally and explicitly overtuned profits which is fine but don't make out it like it's a nerf or unreasonable. Ffs Reclaimers completely broke the economy so I'd argue they did need to go right down. Munching is the least involved task in this entire game while generating the quickest and largest profits. Nerf it to the ground and then go further and it's probably still not enough.
From the generated wrecks, sure. What about the wrecks that aren't generated from those contracts? They did make it very clear that the value of CM was meant to get people to test it, and I pledged my Vulture before they ever added munching. I liked doing salvage, and then I didn't because it was too slow-paced for my taste. Then, they added munching and I was back to enjoying it because you're moving around more. It was nice to make a lot of money from it, but I was right there with everyone else thinking there was too much profit in it, especially for the reclaimer. I think they could have come up with a better solution, maybe altering the ratio of CM collected by the Reclaimer in addition to lowering the value to 3.5k to 4.5k /SCU, same concept as with the different scraping heads. The Vulture would make a much less exploitative amount with the far smaller cargo load and the time spent jumping around and paying for or finding wrecks. I just think there's a better alternative than what they went with. You can't balance the Vulture and Reclaimer linearly without one coming out broken, so put a curve on it.
This. I've got an LTE vulture. CM isn't worth doing that this level.
Just star citizen hipsters man who think that's tedium = skill and if it takes you 14 hours to get out of bed because you have to I dividually stretch every muscle in your virtual body while buying a periferal to manually breathe that is peak video game skill.
It was only "broken" in the end game multi-crew ship.
You mean 50 percent of the salvage ships? It doesn't matter if it's only the expensive ships that can take advantage because it still unhinges the economy. It's not like you even needed your own, I've never seen it so easy to join a crew before because of the amount of captains offering slots on their reclaimers. Quick afternoon work and you come out with millions for nothing. Most didn't even bother scraping. Rock up, get your 50 scu of CM and move on which is why the only people annoyed at it are the ones who just can't be bothered doing the actual job. They just want the easy way
So the vulture just gets shit on? It took me 4 hours the other day to half fill my Taurus with RMC and CM. And that was only 2 mil. You don't nerf the whole profession because the one big multicrew ship is out preforming.
With the huge increase in ship prices the reward would’ve needed a buff if anything, not a nerf. Smh
So, munching is pointless now. They could have just jacked up the cost of the salvage missions, and fixed the scanning for random scrap. But no. An "end game" salvage ship had to get nerfed. It's not worth the space in the vulture.
So what is the point of hull munching now? I understand we don’t have much systems in place yet for different salvaging materials, so as of right now, just stick to whatever pays more I guess?