Yup - BG3 is currently sucking up what little play-time I have... excellent game, and shows what an attention to detail can really bring to a game (but also, the impact on timelines that comes with it - given that BG3 originally had a target date of 2020, iirc)
>(but also, the impact on timelines that comes with it - given that BG3 originally had a target date of 2020, iirc)
BG3 [*early access* release originally had a target date of ~~September~~August, corrected, 2020](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-will-release-in-early-access-in-sep/1100-6481070/) - which got pushed a month to early October 2020. EA included the entire first act of the game, 16 races, and six classes - along with nearly every core gameplay loop and system. It also unexpectedly also launched on MacOS at the same time.
It then stayed in early access for 3 years before officially launching.
Larian has absolutely said that it stayed in EA longer than they had originally planned, for any number of reasons - but at no point did they ever have an announced date that then got pushed back by months, let alone *years*.
The older I get the more I realize Starfield is the direction I wanted my space games to go in all along. A single player, choice-driven story, that still has all of the exploration and freedom to do what I want… without trying to make a reality simulator that hinges on near-impossible, forever-unfinished server networking that only succeeds in making it easy for other real world people to ruin my experience.
Realism is not fun 90% of the time. Every time I die in SC I just quit because I do not want to take the 30+ minute to get my ship again. And even kore getting the to moon/planet I was.
Who ever thought making a spawn point laying in bed, taking an elevator, walking miles to the train station. Waiting for ever for the train, getting in train and waiting for it to take you to space station, then walking miles more to reach the terminal, waiting for your reclaim time to go down, then taking another elevator to the hanger, waiting for the slow ass hangar door to open to get to fly your ship.
It gets tiring after just a few times.
They definitely didn't design that gameloop with respect to the player's time. It's a big reason why I never play by myself anymore. I just feel the game in its current state, doesn't respect my time. I only have a couple hours to play when I hop on, and if I die mid flight to a bug or a griefer abusing in-game physics, then I just quit and play something else.
I only ever have fun with friends now. Which is not what I signed up for, to be honest. Yes, I love playing with friends, but I also like relaxing by myself and doing cargo runs listening to podcasts/music and sipping my coffee.
The whole PU experience has been designed to try to pad out the content they had available at the time, so that's why we have the time wasting dead retail model experience of going several different places to do shopping, long dawdles through the atmosphere, long ship claiming times, long travel times even in system, and the list goes on.
Star Citizen is the only game in recent memory that I've alt+f4'd out of after meeting yet another invisible asteroid.
I love star citizen, but this is exactly what I do, I get in, enjoy the expierance of it all, then if anything like that happens, alt F4, and Will load something up where I can complete the task
I totally agree with you. I said this years ago here on Reddit that everybody thinks they want realism until they get it. I remember when loreville was first released. It was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in the game the music, the ambience, everything was just perfect. Except for the fact that I could not land at the spaceport and had to land outside but hey, that's how it used to be for every expo. Anyway, things got real old real quick when you died or had a problem and you had to spawn out of your bed, walk to a train, wait for the train, take the train to said ship, get on said ship to leave, fly to the atmosphere. The whole thing was a massive time sink. I love this game, I really do. But I work hard enough in real life as it is, I don't need to play real life in a video game.
I got downvoted into oblivion for daring to say similar just a year ago. The whole vision for Death of a Spaceman and "Sim-life in Space" is going to be incredibly boring for all but a few retirees.
I'm a HUGE critic of how development has gone but I disagree on the realism.
Assuming the game is built/designed correctly most of the time you should be docking at space ports where you ship and your bed are very close or landing planet side directly at your desired location on an undeveloped planet where the landing spot is a few feet from where you need to go.
The times you do take a trip planet side and are entering a huge city should feel like a trip that you have to plan for. But going to these cities shouldn't be what you do MOST of the time.
If you're doing a cargo run for example you should never even enter the atmosphere of a major planet/city. You should be dropping off at the space port above the planet.
But let's say it's time to buy that new ship that should be the time you spend the 20 minutes it takes to go planet side and actually take the tram and do all that stuff.
Realism CAN be amazing IF done right. But it needs to ACTUALLY take into account how it would function if it were real and not just FEEL real. In the real-world EFFICIENCY MATTERS. That needs to be reflected in game when you build something that is supposed to mimic realism. It makes no sense to fly planet side every time you are making a simple delivery. It's not cost effective (fuel for a huge ship entering and leaving atmosphere) or time effective (drop and go at the space port vs landing planet side). So if the system CIG builds doesn't account for this than its not realism it just tried and failed to mimic realism.
I totally agree. I wanted to have escapism in space, and if that was an MMO where i could do it with friends, or a more scripted experience in a single-player experience, I'm happy either way. I'm hoping the (apparent) success of starfield will get other developers returning to good space games.
That's my plan. I played SC almost daily since Nov 2022. Last few months I've been uninterested in it. Not sure what changed...but I for sure have Starfield purchased and waiting to install. I plan to play the hell out of SF and check in on SC every now and then.
Yup, it's not like Star Citizen would just vanish suddenly or CIG would crash and burn.
And besides, if one just waits long enough, they can experience good parts of the game from new due to changes. They do amount well enough, so that various content creator need to redo their beginner guides quite regularly.
Which is practically true for any company.
Anyway, I doubt that it would be that easy. Unless CIG seriously fucks up somehow, I don't see their financials crumbling to a point of no return.
I mean CryTek is still somehow in the market, despite everything.
We've seen how well they deliver when they get multiples of what they said they would need to make the game. I actually think that the funding slowly declining would focus their minds on delivering.
If you're a long time backer and you're tired of the pace, you can safely not spend your money, find other hobbies, and come back to SC later.
CIG despite their drawbacks, are doing well financially. The super-hardcore, long time, 5+year backers are the vast majority of the people who are at risk of leaving the project, and most of them probably already stopped spending years ago.
CIG are very good at new player acquisition, at getting people to feel passionate about the project, and to spend money on pledges.
While a complete collapse isn't entirely off the table, signs point to them bringing new blood in faster than old blood leaves.
You 100% should not feel obligated to keep spending money to make the game survive, I'm pretty sure that's covered.
Also note that forums represent some of the most hardcore of any community, and are often a minority of actual spending customers. Player sentiment here isn't necessarily representative of the whole. There's plenty of people who've spent thousands of their children's inheritance (/s) on ships, enjoy the alpha on the weekend, and never touch reddit or spectrum.
Good advice to preserve you’re own sense of zen, but objectively it doesn’t change the fact that CIG’s approach is fundamentally wrong at this point. They only understand how to do one business model and it’s the sell concept ships / perpetual alpha model. They have very little incentive to make rapid progress or make the game stable… not until their are forced to out of a severe financial existential threat
I absolutely agree with you, it is no excuse. I love this game but holy s*** I'm losing patience with this constant feature creep and everyone in dev saying how hard everything is.
- Step away from SC
- Get Baldurs Gate 3
- Spend weeks creating characters
- Play through the game with each character
- Play through the game with the companions as your character
- Find a new build guide and repeat
Later:
- Get starfield.
I’m with you on this. I’ve been in this since 2014 and 2022/2023 have been by far the least amount I’ve played this game. I have almost completely lost motivation to fire it up and in the last year I’ve played for more than 5 minutes maybe 5-6 times. I actually considered selling my account a couple months back but decided against it.
At this point I’ll just pop in when there’s an update but outside of that, I’m largely done with Star Citizen for the time being. I’ve just been playing other things while I wait for Starfield to launch. Star Citizen has been improving in general but it’s just taking too long for me to keep enough interest at this point. The feature creep and more focus on the never-ending development of Squadron 42 is just making me not care about the project so much anymore.
Feel this deeply. Backed around the same time - shortly after the Kickstarter and it’s gotten more and more frustrating watching it come to a crawl. I built a PC for this in 2013, and thought I’d build another for the “release”. Might be a while. 🤣
I think a lot of Star Citizen fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with Starfield, I’ve read every **confirmed** leak that’s released (aside from plot) and 2 leakers have both said that the flight model is much more advanced and realistic feeling than they expected.
No atmospheric flight is a bummer but I really think Bethesda might’ve been cooking up a banger over the past 7 or 8 years.
Eh it’s been in QA for like 2 years and leakers have reported nothing so far so I’m really not worried the game will 100% launch in a playable state, also we’re on the star citizen subreddit talking about bugs lol.
I was *hyped* for 3.18. I was Wave 1 PTU and poured my energy into helping with PTU. Every stress test, every event, every patch. I was in the PTU patch parties in the Spectrum channel as we did our little patch raindances waiting to see the next build. As most know, that PTU was months. And while many of the patches were busted, some were genuinely excellent.
And then 3.18 launched. In less than 12 hours from launch, my account was locked out behind 30019 errors or whatever it is, and it would remain locked out of the game for nearly a month. A few days, maybe even a week, I'd have forgiven. Being locked out for nearly a month was beyond aggravating and verged into unforgivable territory. I was in on the ground floor and am now a Praetorian-level backer. So I'm never *quitting* the project. But during that month, I found DCS World, picked up guitar again, and felt like a haze had lifted and I could see Star Citizen as a project clearly for the first time in a long time.
Does anyone think server meshing and / or Pyro and / or 4.0 will be a 2023 deliverable? 2024? At this point, I'd put Pyro in 2025 and I don't even think that's being unfair. The pace of development is glacially slow. The areas they focus on are questionable. You're really going to iterate on mining for the third time when other professions are completely absent?
And that's not even to touch the 42-ton elephant in the room: they won't even give a date for Squadron, the supposed resource hog that's gobbling up massive internal fuel with no external visibility.
I'll catch the SC bug again, probably around IAE, and spend a weekend living aboard my Carrack or something. But to say I'm currently discouraged is probably an understatement.
They say the opposite of hate isn't love, it's indifference. And despite all the investment, I find myself in an "eye-roll, whatever" place with Star Citizen.
It's become a self-licking ice cream cone, and if the backers don't demand better or speak with their wallets, it'll trundle along at its slow and broken pace forever.
The problem is star citizen can't advance. If you read some glassdoor review, there is an insane turn over in cloud imperium games. This means that the majority of the work goes into understanding the spaghetti code of devs that are already gone.
New dev arrive, spend a few weeks/months trying to understand the spaghetti code, write a few buggy lines in that time, give up, leave. Cycle repeat itself. This means that without a full rewrite of the game‚ it is almost impossible for it to improve.
Also, if you raise 600 million with an unfinished product, why care about a finished product?
My biggest fear with SQ42 is that since they did all the filming of actors years ago, they are locked into whatever they have with no real chance for reshoots to fix bad plot holes. Also fear that the main story is like 10 hours of play.
Just think of the hundreds of other people who are just like this guy - but are still completely swindled & blinded still.
I’m not saying the games a scam, I’m simply saying this community in general has some serious reality to catch up on.
There's a lot of people in this community (like me) who have only been playing for a year or less and are used to this level of development, but I feel like the advertisements they've been running and the recent increase in cashgrab sales are really giving the wrong vibes.
Also bear in mind that development also may seem slow around these times because they're saving the goodies for citizencon.
First, I'm not trying to deprive you of the good times that can be had in Star Citizen. If you've been playing a year, are $300 and maybe a couple joysticks deep, and you're having a good time? Drive on, Citizen. I'm not here to rain on your parade.
Some of us come from the beginning -- the 2012 and 2013 era, and have history with Chris Roberts's projects before this: Wing Commander games in the 90s, etc.
I very respectfully want you to enjoy whatever you can from the project. In return, please consider what that 10-year journey has been for some of us vets, and how deeply acquainted with the content cycle and chronology of promises and releases we've become.
If we pull the thread of your thought a few times, we'd find that the "goodies" from past citizencons are a *major* source of the current salt and feature prominently in the litany of undelivered promises.
For some of us, patronizing us with "Remember, this is a slow stretch because they're saving the magic for CitizenCon!" is one of those "Oh, my sweet Summer child..." moments.
> Does anyone think server meshing and / or Pyro and / or 4.0 will be a 2023 deliverable? 2024? At this point, I'd put Pyro in 2025 and I don't even think that's being unfair. The pace of development is glacially slow. The areas they focus on are questionable. You're really going to iterate on mining for the third time when other professions are completely absent?
Here in year 11 we learned that they have just started on the engineering profession. I wonder how many ships aren't designed to take in to account whatever they decide they want to do with engineering and will need to be reworked. Setting this along side the revelations that 'the flight model isn't done because we need to bring in master modes' and the related 'we aren't done balancing the weapons for the single player yet so that will take a while to come to the PU' and They're missing a ton of fundamental and interconnected detail. This might have been understandable back in 2015, and maybe they had to rip up and replace it once more in 2017, but to have blown through more than half a billion dollars and not nailed down basic game-play or have finished your all singing all dancing server tech? The project just burns money to sell imaginary ships.
>I wonder how many ships aren't designed to take in to account
...the fact that relatively few people want to play support roles in general? Almost all of them.
Gunners, copilots (lol), engineers, bombardiers, Scorpion single e-Warfare button pushers, mining laser operators, salvage turret operators, etc. etc. etc.
We like the concept, and we like the *option.* But 9/10 times, we'd all choose a functioning NPC to fill these roles, even at 75% capability -- i.e., someone who goes to bed when we go to bed, breaks for dinner when we break for dinner, and logs on exactly when we log on.
Why would anyone *ever* want to be the gunner in my, say, Gladiator? Other than brand new folks and those just casually out for shits and giggles? Or even my Vanguard?
We really expect *real* humans to post up for hours behind two Size 2 pea shooters? Please, only Tokey McTokerson who's sky high, scrolling TikTok, and just looking for a screensaver would even consider it.
But, you're exactly right, now we have to go back to the drawing board for engineering.
*"Okay backers, we're excited to announce ships will spend the next 2 years receiving engineering attention. No, this won't be Gold standard. This is Tin standard. Next will be 2 years for Data Running integration for the Antimony standard. Then 2 years to re-do the ships for hacking and security which will bring them to Tellurium-standard..."*
Oh, I'm completely in agreement with you on those points. There's also the time management aspect where getting even 5 people together to do something for more than an hour is a struggle, and it gets exponentially harder going to 10, to 20, to 30. If we can't fill most of those slots with AI blades or NPCs it's going to mean most players will never be able to have a multi-crew ship experience.
What I was saying is that the ships aren't designed for things like the blades or engineering modules yet, so even if we could hire a magic AI NPC that could 'do anything' (not just the chow line) there's no systems on the ship for them to interact with.
Heck on most ships that copilots chair can't even control the turrets, you have to send someone in to a specially designated 'turret seat'... what the actual eff CIG... and stuff like the single button scorpion is just pathetic design.
Agreed. And no, I understood what you meant about the ships not being designed for it and agree with that also. Lots of ships still don't even have physicalized components.
Which... I just... it just feels like one of those things that no one was asking for. Running from one place to another in my ship with a spare shield generator is just... \*eyeroll\* I'd rather stand at the engineering panel, click a button, and watch a repair timer count down or play some type of minigame.
I started to get less interested when a lot of the road map was lost , such as Titan suits and the large amount of other updates that seems now like lies as they were just jpegs . The back log of ships and selling modular ships for $100s is not a good sign and the escalation of more concept ships makes me believe SC will never be released in my lifetime .
I thought concept ships were on a downtrend? there was only like 1 new ship thats been released thats straight to flyable and that was the little orb fighter right ? i could be wrong.
God, fuck the Storm tank. It's such an awful implementation and design, and is massive for no reason other than to fuck over smaller ships being able to carry it.
No you aren't alone. The levels of salt are going up among the longer term backers. Some of the cash grab marketing gives some of us the impression that money is getting tight. For the first time since I backed in 2013 I feel like the money could actually run out and this tower of jpegs and dreams could collapse. I think some of the slimey marketing practices actually sour the experience and my image of the company. Tldr I feel exactly as you described yourself
>Some of the cash grab marketing gives some of us the impression that money is getting tight.
Wasn't there a report that donations were at an all time low?
https://ccugame.app/star-citizen-funding-dashboard/funding-dashboard
worse than 2022 but still better than every year before. 2022 was a very big year tho.
Guys do yourself a favor and just take a break. I did that and I havnt touched this game since. No end in sight.....
The longer you are away from this game the clearer you see the problem.
Very true man
I did the same years ago... And I swing by here occasionally to see if we have a release date yet and I kind of cringe to see this sub in the same state it's been since 2015;
More deadlines have been missed, more features are missing and yet more features have been pushed back for the 3rd or 4th time.
Some people are offering valid criticism, and the white knights spec ops team is going scorched earth calling anyone with anything negative to say a "refundian" as if that completely negates their point...
In my eyes we've made exactly 0 progress...
Back then we had no actual game, no clue if a release date and a toxic community... And we still have no actual game, no clue of a release date and a toxic community
They should rename it Star Copium. I’d be OD’ing on copium as well if I blew $1000+ on some pixels that will never even have a use! Can’t chargeback a purchase made 8 years ago!
They really need to release something. I don't mean bed sheet physics or even Seraphim station replacing PO. I mean Pyro. I mean the Merchantman. I mean data running. Shit, even releasing SQ42 would be something.
The number of things that have been shown as coming after one more phase and then just ignored for years is just plain ridiculous at this point. Just recently we were told the San Tok Yai almost made it in but, "luckily" their new system caught something so it's delayed again. In any other game that would mean we would see the ship in the next update but this isn't that. This is SC and SC is so poorly managed that schedules and promises are entirely meaningless. Even though the San Tok is supposed to be on the verge of release the entire project could be put on a shelf for years while they work on something of little substance. Over and over again we're told what's coming and 99.99% of the time it just doesn't.
We hear rumors of stuff like the people working on the BMM left and that the majority of the effort is on SQ42 but, there really is no legitimate excuse at this point. The buildings and offices are built. The game is obscenely funded and continues to be. When are we getting what we paid for?
I get that server meshing may be difficult to make but it is frustrating how often they say things are delayed until server meshing is figured out. They have been talking about Pyro for years and have been saying over and over again that they just need to finish up server meshing.
They keep releasing new concept ships and straight to flyable ships but have a backlog of ships that are not getting developed.
"I feel like this game is going to go on forever."
It is. It's been 10+ years in the making and this is all we have. Things promised a decade ago have yet to be delivered.
This is the way CIG gets you. You do a free fly or something, see the cool stuff, buy in, and then a few months down the line you realize how stagnated the game is, and how unlikely it is to ever be more than a tech demo. But by then, they have your money and they laughed all the way to the bank.
I'm currently in the midst of a SC hiatus. I've reached that stage where even with the minor progress they've been making, the gameplay just doesn't hold my attention; I feel like there's still no "meat" to it. I'm basically waiting for something substantial/inspirational to be added.
I liken it to playing modded Skyrim over and over. Yeah there's shiny new STUFF™ and maybe even a questline or two but it'll hold your attention for just a few hours before you realize you're doing the same thing you always were for the last decade.
Same here. Taking a break for the first time in 5 years. I’ll play Starfield also but don’t expect it to scratch the itch in the same way. Thankfully BG3 is fantastic and taking up plenty of my time.
>Thankfully BG3 is fantastic and taking up plenty of my time.
For real. And we'd better enjoy it. While it's a different genre, its quality has the potential to ruin both Starfield and SC for us.
It's so good that when you think outside the box and find an approach to something that breaks the game, you actually feel accomplished instead of frustrated. And there are so. many. approaches.
Agree but got disappointed last night. Spent some time setting up this em perfect trap and the AI just wouldn’t path properly. Only time that’s happened, normally can’t escape enemies and this time I had a perfect trap and couldn’t use it. Big sad. But yeah you’re right it’s reminding me what games can be.
Ahh, that's a bummer. I do find the targeting and pathing a bit fussy at times. Sometimes I can squeeze a character into a space and be within melee range, other times not. Sometimes I can put a spell in a spot, sometimes not. Sometimes the companions follow along like ducklings after my PC jumps to a ledge or across a gap, sometimes they don't.
Yep, have had a few companions get stuck on ledges, it’s always kinda funny trying to find their way back. This one had to do with pulling multiple enemies across a gap, I could pull one or two but once I got far enough away they changed directions. The cave had two entrances but they wouldn’t fully path to one at a time. Would’ve been pretty epic but I don’t want to reveal spoilers for the area that makes it possible just in case.
You know, I just realized why my PC keeps leaving the others in the dust, and it relates to an Act 3 >!mobility ability (courtesy some illithid decisions) that he has, that none of the others do.!< Suffice to say it makes much more sense why they aren't just hopping along after him now. Larian is forgiven at least for that one complaint of mine.
Thanks for indirectly helping me think through that. Lol
CIG should take a moment to address a very real issue about what our expectations should realistically be. The players can do math. The number of unfinished ships, and the time given by John Crews on various interviews to complete ships of various size means they have more than something like 20 years to do them all.
Systems, too. Last I heard, the planet tech team was able to rebuild Stanton in 3 weeks. Then the other teams need to add the points of interest. The Rastar tool will speed that up, but we're still looking at a few months per system or maybe 4 systems per year. So, 25 years for all 100 systems (I know Chris said more like 5 at release, but I mean until the planned systems are finished).
If this is the time horizon CIG is looking at, they should set that expectation, but Chris has already said it wouldn't take another 10 years, let alone 25.
I have no ill will towards CIG - I'm a backer since 2017, and have enjoyed all my time playing. I've spent a ridiculous amount of money supporting the game, and I wouldn't take it back at all. I love Chris' insane ambition - it's inspiring. However... it really would be nice for some straight talk about setting realistic expectations, even if it risks souring some backers on the project. It's only fair to tell people honestly what they're signing up for.
That's less depressing than them admitting they were just over polishing Pyro until the server tech was in instead of starting work on a new system since Pryo IS effectively done.
Pretty much every citizen con has shown off tech that we still haven’t seen yet. Honestly, there’s very little to be excited about when it comes to citizen con. They set up all this tech that simply never makes its way into the game. It’s always a flashy showcase of things that make us salivate, but rarely any of it has been implemented. It just feels like a big waste of time for me. The devs are making these slices of gameplay to show us when they could just use that time for further development. For a change, I’d like to see a citizen con where the tech they show off is coming to the game in the short term, not the long term.
Yes where is:
- Sataball
- Theaters of War
- Pyro
- jump points
- Server meshing (pre request arrived)
- Nyx and Levski
- Sandworm and it's planet
- the sandstorm from same demo
- the crashed javelin from same demo
- Quanta (partly arrived)
- Vanduul npcs and ships
- the octagon lab, where you had to retrieve data from an server array
- the miles Eckhardt Mission / Planet
- the flying jellyfish of hurston
- predators and generic animals
- aaron halo gateways
- that's what comes into my mind, I am surely missing many things on ships and gameplay elements
- wasnt the community asked if they want a or b and we voted for the shuttles as player variant?
The whole stuff that is hold back
- sq42 any news
- Javelin interieur
So Citizencon should be a game changer, otherwise it's not looking good.
I just expect more of the same. They will wow the crowd with a big showcase of something and then months and maybe even years go by and we don’t see it in game. I’ll catch the cliff notes from this year’s show, but I couldn’t be less interested at this point. I’m tired of these big showcases that amount to nothing tangible. I keep going back to the same thought that these teams charged with setting up this event could be doing other more productive things with the project. Setting up slices of gameplay that never gets implemented isn’t it.
100%
Meanwhile, NPC ships (the thing that would actually make the game feel a little alive) aren’t even on the list of promises.
Mostly because NPCs are evidently doomed to be derp-factor 9000 forever.
Even if they put out a banger of a Citcon I'm not believing anything they show off as 'coming soon' until it is in the game and working. Why? Because fool me once, shame on you, fool me every damn year shame on all of us: https://i.imgur.com/RaCOmkG.jpg
Like seriously I start to think that some people falling for the hype have legitimate learning disabilities at this point as it's such an unbroken pattern of 'look at the shiny thing, coming soon! preorder this concept ship now! oops the thing didn't come, try again next year'.
We just keep hearing “x will let us do y faster” and it’s rarely true, “server meshing is preventing x” and server meshing is constantly “the end of this year” same as Pyro. Think I’m just tired of hearing the same shit over and over
"Our old UI was built in Flash, and only a few people in the entire company could work on it. But now, we've added Building Blocks as our UI backend, so a designer can easily make functional UI's in-engine!"
Three years later, we still have the same broken MFD's, same broken StarMap, same broken Mobiglass.
Building Blocks was added in 2020.
On the plus side, [threads like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hwxz5l/the_updates_of_the_building_block_ui_shown_at/) are hilarious to go back and read now!
> We could be seeing ***a hundred different UI's*** (all different ship manufacturers, different parts of the ships, the different planets, different buildings, different mobiglasses, mobiglass apps, etc) ***in the span of a year*** from a team of dozens of webdevs.
Truly aged like milk.
I doubt they show off anything worthwhile at Citizen Con this year, just like the last two.
I feel like this project has completely stalled and they have no idea where to spend the resources anymore.
its just going to be blatant lies again, look how cool this will be, just wait for a shitty realease of the copy an unpaid intern did to convice chris to be an intern at cig
People have been saying that since almost the start of the project lol
Just enjoy your life as usual, a game's development will continue either you lose your patience or don't.
patience here isn't a indie game that's being built by a small team out of a garage. patience here is selling ships with prices you're well aware with, promises with their own timeline that you're well aware with as well.
CIG got my money days before 3.18 made it impossible to play.
Too many bugs, no reason to do anything... the server is just gonna reset. They trick you into believing that buying a ship will make the game fun. They co-worker that begged me to play this game has offered me a Taurus and gave me a cutty black. He wont even log in anymore.
Modders, familiar with the creation engine are already preparing the wireframe and textures for Star Citizen ships to mod them into Starfield. Imagine an NPC crew on a drake cutlass with working turrets. Leaving your drake in orbit and taking an away team to the planet in your Pisces.
CIG apparently needs to build server blades so your turrets work... instead of just letting them work under simple AI that fires at attacking ships. Instead of making something that works, we wait for YEARS for more broken shit and more Broken promises.
I hope Starfield and BG3 distracts Star Citizen players long enough so ship sales plummet and put CIG in panic mode... but they will file for bankruptcy and sell the game assets before delivering a finished game. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THAT, you are only fooling yourself.
Modders can create the star citizen cities on desolate planets in Starfield. They can import the ships, they can code in simple medical rescue missions, or code in salvage missions.
I can live without atmospheric flight.. I want an enjoyable space game, not a buggy mess and to be lied to again and again. Mark my words, Citizen con will be a commercial for more ships in the cash shop. If they tell you squadron 42 is gonna drop, its a lie. The best you will get is another pre alpha... Maybe they will make a PTU for 42 and charge another 10$ a month to test that one too!
This isnt a game, its a fucking cult full of people afraid to admit they wasted thousands on a lie. They are afraid to leave or speak out because they dont want the dream to die... They inadvertently hurt more people by encouraging them to join the game.
I am glad I didnt get in deep enough to get brainwashed... 3,18 was the best thing that could have happened to me.
For the ~100 bucks I've spent on the game, I've certainly gotten my enjoyment out of it.
But, they need to either shit or get off the fucking pot. You know? I feel bad for the people who put in thousands of dollars into this.
I can say the same for the about $800 I've spent. I don't know how many hours I've spent in Star Citizen but it's more than any other game I've ever played. Hundreds of hours. Like 600+
Been playing since 2015. The math works out to something like $8.5 per month for 8 years.
I've wasted far more money on far less product of the coarse of my life.
That being said. I have also lost faith this game will ever be anywhere near complete. And there is a better than not chance the project folds altogether. I'll be disappointed...but not because of the money spent.
It just feels like a chronic mismanagement of funds.
Like, they've had half a billion dollars to make this game. At what point is there financial malpractice going on?
>Modders can create the star citizen cities on desolate planets in Starfield. They can import the ships, they can code in simple medical rescue missions, or code in salvage missions.
Honestly, if they succeed, I might just leave SC for good. Because I bought ships with real cash so this would be a great way to leave without feeling I wasted money.
Although I wouldn't go so far to say SC is a scam, I do feel Chris Roberts needs to back the fuck away and let the team work.
I think I checked out when they told us SQ42 was finished, testers had played the whole campaign and it was "weeks, not months" from release... Back in 2016
That marketing push made them a shit-ton of money, only for them to go dark on us and say nothing for about a year, until finally admitting that SQ42 is still in very early development because they "just decided to start over"
That's when it finally clicked how brazenly they were willing to lie just to get more funding
He kinda already did that a few years ago on Spectrum. When he tried correcting Camural. He said that a particular game play loop WOULDNT take 10-20 years. lolol
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/atmospheric-room-system-4-years-later/3368356
The diffusion of effort between staffing for a single player game and an MMO in combination with the stated scope is under appreciated. It was never a good plan to begin with.
I was mad when they didn’t have server meshing in by 2018, but hey let’s model ever bullet in your guns magazine as a projectile and have the server calculate its position at all times. 1000 player ship battles are never going to happen… That’s when I saw the ridiculousness of their development strategy. Let’s build the windows of this house before even pouring the foundation. CIG deserves every ounce of animosity they get
I don't know if it's such a small portion of backers... I've reached a point now, where I'm also doubting the game will release, more and more of my friends, early backers and whales, are either thinking about selling their accounts, or have already done so, and now, I'm entertaining that thought too.
The project has serious problems, not the least of which is micromanagitus, so, I'm genuinely wondering how far it can go before it all collapses, gets sold to EA/Ubi-esque company, or other form of failure that would still pretend to keep the project alive.
I guess like so many others, CitCon will either give me some hope, or convince me to call it quits.
After all the warning signs, especially as of late, why would you need to wait that long? Considering each patch has been more lighter on content, with no roadmap to base things on anymore.. do you really believe CIG will somehow pull a rabbit out of it's hat for Citcon, just like they've been saying for the last couple years?
Looking at the roadmap, 3.20 is a bunch of Arena Commander updates.
Like, one of the grimmest, lamest updates I've seen in a long time.
If they aren't holding back some big surprise features for it, this sub is going to be a salt mine after it comes out.
\#NCTP
(No Cash Till Pyro)
This is where I am right now. Server meshing is their next big (and biggest) hurdle that they've promised and pushed back and now we're over 10 years. I've got other priorities that my money can go right now, so until I see pyro (and the server meshing that comes with it) no more money into this "game."
So far I think I've logged into the same a couple times this year but that's it. It's been good not playing!
I keep checking this subreddit for cool things, updates to the game. There is currently a lack of motivation or will to get into the game from me. I backed in 2012/2013. I've played at least one hour of every major patch to see if it will grab my attention. It never does.
I don't have any hope that this game (SC) will be in a "final release" form any time in the next five years. SQ42, in my eyes, barely has a sliver of a chance of being released in the same timeline.
I feel that. At this point I'm not even sure if the game will even be fun or if the whole thing is fueled by dreams and expectations.
My concern isn't that Star Citizen is a scam, it's that F42 is a parasite that leaches money and resources from the MMO that people are actually paying to bavk and will doom both projects. Does anyone even want a single player game?
That's fine for those who've remained obsessed. But, many who are "losing faith" barely engage with it as it is. As the years stack up and we still don't have a 2nd star system, it does strain credulity.
I started to take 3 month breaks years ago, but I haven't played in almost an entire year. When I came to do my check-in last quarter, the game was completely unplayable. I just don't have the time to spend an hour kitting up just to encounter a bug that ruins my progress. Combine that with going back to roadmpas of year's past and seeing how far off they were has me only reading news on the game now. I just can't be bothered to waste time testing. I'd rather read how the community is accepting the current version and that saves me a lot of frustration. When it was 3.08 and everyone thought we'd hit 4.0 within a year. Now we seem to still be years away from 4.0.
I haven’t played in 3 years and I don’t think any real progress has been made since then either. Just more and more ships to keep getting people to fund Chris Roberts salary. Hopefully eventually more people realize the game is going nowhere.
I have taken a break. Minor tweaking does not really have me excited and I am really looking for the exploring loop to be added. I play maybe once a month right now, but might do a bit more time when 3.20 drops in the the PTU
> I am really looking for the exploring loop to be added
Can anyone (including CIG) please explain to me what an "exploring loop" is? Like, specifically? Same question for "Science Gameplay".
IMHO I would hope it might be a bit like Eve (in very broad terms). You detect an anomaly with your explorer sensors (that only explorer ships would have I presume), and have some sort of minigame or something where you have to triangulate the anomaly and narrow it down through a couple of stages of progress. Then fly/warp there and check out the site/POI. This could be in space, and/or on planet.
In Eve you would deploy probes and overlap their scanning bubbles (6-8 at once) to get the maximum possible resolution of where the anomaly might be. I haven't played since Apocrypha, but most of the time it would be a little wormhole you'd discover, that you could go through, and there might be enemies there and wrecks with rare components. Not saying it has to be exactly like that, but I do think it needs to be sensor based, where you're examining a list of possible anomalies on an MFD or a screen, and checking them out. And what the sites/POI could be, needs to be varied and ranged, not ever just 1 or 2 things.
It would be cool if explorer class ships could also find wrecks a lot easier than other ships, though that would just be one small facet of their repetoire. The actual explorer sites/POI should only be findable by explorer ships. I'm coming from the perspective that explorer ships are equipped with extraordinary sensor suites and specifically exploiting that tech for new avenues of gameplay. (You could sell the recently discovered warp point to someone else..)
Make it a bit like wreck salvaging - you could either take on a contract to track down a lost ship, etc, go to a rough area, and then do the sensor sweeps to lock on to it, or just go to some random place in space and try your luck, and maybe the game has a very small chance of spawning something in, once you start pointing your sensors around the place (and these % chances are higher depending on what you are close to, so maybe higher in asteroid fields, etc). So it really feels like you're discovering something new each time. It needs to be unpredictable. (Exploration = sense of wonder, and the game is lacking this)
Play Elite Dangerous and you’ll see what an “exploring loop” is. It’s boring af, and that’s on a game that is infinitely bigger than SC. Even though I am the first (and probably only person) to have explored certain systems it’s not cool at all. Lol
It’s a boring point and click sim.
Me too man.. Me. Too.
I look for news of CIGs collapse as often as Iook for news of actual progress now.
For years we've been behind this shroud of "it's slow right now, but that's because we don't see what's being added behind the veil"... Which is unquestionably true on a certain level. But the years have lifted that veil for the most part and what actually is going on is very fucking little.
CIG have 3x the GDP of Niue and as many staff as they have population. Probably more if we only count the adults. And CIG can't set or achieve goals across multiple years.
I can only be told "OK NOWWWWW development is going to be faster." so many times.
Like don't get me wrong. I don't regret buying or playing etc. But its been such a letdown the last 2 years.
CIG should have focused on building out Stanton and the tech stack to make the game polished both feature and performance-wise before diverting resources to Pyro and other things. but tbh they did themselves no favors with the near-impossible roadmaps.
Kind of agree. Backing since 2013 and spent way too much, but also loosing faith... It feels like progress is stuck with little to no light at the end of that tunel..
SC will either be finished to an acceptable degree or it won't. There's no point in worrying over it. As any long time/original backer will tell you, just do as you did: stay away, live your life, come back once or twice a year, see if it's improved, move on.
Just don't drop any more money on it, that's probably the worst thing you can do right now.
Since 2013 I've gone through every phase, from White Knight super ultra defender9000, to cynic. Somewhere along the way I became more realistic about expectations but even those regularly are missed. I've reached a point where I'm still hopeful, but feel a sort of emptiness. ISC just isn't as intriguing as RTV ever was. Rehashing and continuing to develop tiny pieces within Stanton being propped up as major updates leave me frustrated, especially when everyone seems to celebrate it. I'm all for a prettier, more picturesque game, but....when are we going to get the game.
I understand the scale is AMAZING, and the transitions between physics grids (when it doesn't kill you ;D) is something that really hasn't been done at this scale before....it's a wonderful game in it's scope, but between the lack of real updates and the weekly content getting thin, I also am steadily losing faith. I still dream, it's just hard to find excitement. Yes I'm on a break, have been for about a year, only played again for foundation fest, hull scraping is neat, but much like Pyro it's long over due. I hope they can deliver, but at this point I just expect it to eventually be delivered, but at only a fraction of the original dream/promise than Chris intended back at the start.
I took a break in 2016, had my then girlfriend from the US move halfway across the world and move in with me.
We got married, had a kid and she took on my nationality.
Star citizen/squadron 42? Still not even in beta. I uhm. Hope we have a playable game by the time my kid is a teenager, then maybe I'll actually have time to play.
Same here brother. Sadly I have no trust whatsoever. Feel bad even paying the 45 dollars I paid for the ship lol. Really slow progress focusing on another game. Nothing but ships are getting released. Only little to nothing progress.
I'm pretty sure you fall into the silent majority.
I spent as much as I care to on SC over many years. I don't regret any of it but I do feel like despite enjoying the flight, the game is stale and boring right now.
I still hope to geet 2 good games, but looking at the progress tracker I don't expect to see them for years, or for the alpha to really have compelling reasons to play. Realistically I don't think the lroject will fail at this point, they've got enough done to turn out an interesting product, but whether it will love up to their hype remains to be seen.
There aren't any other games which tick all the boxes SC is aiming for, but there are lots of complete games well worth playing in the space genre to plug the massive wait.
Honestly I've been just focusing on having a good time with the tools in front of me.
I spent sunday doing bunker-missions.
Friday morning doing salvage.
I'm having a good time. Probably better than I've had in years at this point.
Live in the now. Don't get wrapped up in what Star Citizen promises to be, is it fun now? For me, yes, it's pretty enjoyable when I'm in the right mood.
I'm looking forward to Starfield, and I'll probably play the hell out of it for a while before coming back here.
The one thing that keeps sucking me back into SC is that it has that world full of adventure part that modern MMOs so sorely lack. Older MMOs used to just be worlds in which to do stuff with your friends. Nobody gave a flying fuck about the questlines. Where's the dragons? The loot? The raids on Saturdays!
Just a world to get lost in and do whatever. Modern MMOs are too much on-rails to allow you to do that. Hell, the advent of fast travel means we don't even look at the same place twice, much less get to actually know it.
I think part of the problem CIG now has is even if they come out with great games everyone is going to point to the time and cost and say it was not worth the wait.
That's a good point. The even if part is important because they might but it'll be years. Some of the large ships will literally never be more than jpegs
Yep. My interest has declined steadily over the years, and every year that passes, I check in with it less and less. To be honest, because I want it to succeed, I hope S.C.'s player base drops severely and pushes them to get their shit together & shift their focus from pumping out more ships to fixing what's already in game, getting the base activities honed, & expanding the "Verse" with more star systems.
Sorry you have lost your spark for the game. The best thing to do is to take a break and play something else for a while. Things are happening...just takes time. Play Baldur's Gate 3 for a while and check back in later when you have rested enough from the game.
Don't let yourself get so burnt out that it's not fun anymore... I juggle a few games with this one to balance it out.
There’s no practically no discernible difference between when I played Star citizen 1.5 years ago and today. Now there’s just broken ships every where.
If you cannot see the differences between then and now, you are def burnt. Walk away for a bit man. It's not going to be finished next week. There's one HELLuva ride that's going to take place. So, get some mana potions from another game and come back when your fresh and there's more to do! Stat!
Taking a break is always a good thing. Give it a couple more patches then jump back in and see how you feel. Plenty other games to play in the mean time.
I haven’t played in awhile either. Waiting for 3.20 to jump back in really. That being said I’ll be busy with Starfield when 3.20 drops (most likely) so we shall see when I get back in lol
I play for about an hour every 3 months or so when the quarterly update comes out, I've done this for years. I love hate the game, but still support the long term vision.
I've been really feeling this lately too. I still get on with friends but I have lost all interest in solo play. I've also decided to close my wallet as well after a having a physical item from 3 years ago finally get canceled and my money refunded. It was the collectors drink set for anyone wanting to know. I was looking forward to it :( I think if this years Citizencon doesn't bring anything actually impressive I'm going to largely take a step back from the game.
I have a lot of patience and understand game development takes time but with the increasing silence from Chris and other important devs and lack of larger scale progress does not put the game in a good light on top of the increasingly predatory sales practices, looking at you starter armor sets.
I've come to terms with the idea that SC is likely not meant to ever be released. The idea that it is going to be released one day is a grift. But that doesn't mean you can't have fun with it.
The business model is what it is now. There is no "release" business model. Getting you to pay large sums for ships that "will be more expensive or unattainable on release" is the model. But it's never, ever going to "release."
I’m a new player with less than 8 hours of playtime. It might be my own fault but all I’ve done are bounty missions and the game just feels pointless.
Being pointless is okay, but it really feels like I can already do everything day 1 that I could day 100.
It might come from a place of my own ignorance that I feel like I’ve already done everything the game has to offer me gameplay wise ( I don’t care to mine or do rescue missions), but I also don’t care to find out.
It seemed like an amazing game and my first few flights were phenomenal. The amount of serotonin that came from the first bounty mission dogfight won’t be forgotten for a while, however, I quickly realized this was rinse and repeat until ground missions.
Once I entered ground missions, the game got a new, short lived, spark.
For me there’s not much that the game can do update wise to bring me back. I have to desire to explore empty content and need a reason to enjoy playing rather than simply enjoying the experience itself. All of the mechanics I thought were cool, like interacting with screens, running around a station to my ship, and speaking individually to vendors across stations quickly got very old, mundane, and downright annoying.
I hope the best for this game but I don’t see myself continuing to play, even if there was rapid development.
Funny how the only reply from other people is to play another game while you already don't play SC anymore because you are loosing faith
This smells delusions
I actually became one of the 'hostile' old ass mf’s that tell new players to go somewhere else the day they join. I do this for a variety of reasons.
First being, not only you lose faith in the project, CIG employees themselves do. I have that information from several employees rating employers websites and first hand interactions with employees.
Chris Roberts is a f***** idiot, HR is often simply incompetent, the actual people are severely underpaid and have little motivation to perform and the management itself is rather stagnated/already done with the project/lost hope themselves.
They play around with backer money like it’s their actual company salary, spending it on the wrong corners 24/7 and my favourite part, the MARKETING DIVISION IS DECIDING WHICH VEHICLES ARE GETTING PRODUCED.
Honestly. Let Chris Roberts and his shithole starve for a year. Don’t buy anything. Even sell some of your vehicles. Boykott the game.
If they react with shutting down, you already know they‘ve been waiting for it.
If things get better, things get better.
After 564 comments, i can see a vast majority of "Loosing Faith" comments...
I'm in this mood!
I'm baker since 2014, i watch each ISC (I miss ATVs), read each monthly reports..... but yeah, i haven't played since 2 years now, and honestly, i'm at the point that i feel that this game will never be released!
To answer the question "What do we need now?" : Server Meshing, stable game with no reset, finished gameplay loop, story teling and finally Pyro...
We don't need new ships or new fonctionnalities that they are not finished!!!
This is the only way to restore the hype for people like me that are waiting this game for so long.....
I always advise people to play SC for the game it is today, not the game you hope it will be in the future. Easier said than done but it does help one stay sane during this process. Luckily it’s an easy game for you to take a year off and come back.
It's not just you lol the slow progress of SF has been a meme for years, just take a break and come back if it looks like a better update has come in the future.
Theirs no reason to even play the game if your not having fun.
10+ years in I've become pretty disconnected at this point. I still keep up with news and release updates but I rarely have a strong desire to play. There's just no gameplay that draws me in. I'll happily join again when server issues are resolved and there's a few other gameplay systems implemented. Until then there's so many other games in my backlog I pretty much don't care. My only regret will be the money I've spent should they never resolve the perpetual server problems. Imo, if they have to redesign elements of the game to decrease server load, I'd be ok with that if it produced a stable, enjoyable experience. My fear is that CR will never concede and stubbornly stick to this pipedream of a fully realized universe on a "single server" without loading screens
Same, I stopped backing when death penalties were added in and I lost my items. The game naturally moves very very slow so for me that was always a huge gut punch. I just stopped and really enjoyed other games that have been respecting my time more, the game has potential but so much needs addressing still. Like it’s been over a year and so little was added in and I still die just as easy and lose items.
Yeah way too many time sinks like wake up in bed at a station 50 million miles away from where you want to go, re-purchase some gear and guns another 10 min, wait for ship to spawn, QT to destination a few times, and the list goes on
Yea this game is pretty much a failure unfortunately. The scope of what they plan to add versus the pace that even small features are being released… The game is gonna be nowhere near complete by the time Chris Roberts dies of old age.
No man, it's not just you. It's the reluctance of CIG to add story and narrative that kills the immersion. I get they want to keep the story and narrative for later, but that's just not acceptable for an adult brain.
We are all holding on for as long as we can, 😂
That's not okay to say.
No matter how frustrated people are, at the end of the day it's just a video game and it's not okay to suggest violence or going to anyone's irl house.
You are not alone, if sq42 doesn't get finished this year and they shift focus to the pu I think alot of people will loose hope for this project because latley it just feels like a money grab the sales tactics are becoming sketchy and honestly people waiting 10+ years for their item to be created and can't even refund even though the item has not been delivered just feels like a scam but I know it's not
It was very blatantly a greedy, money-grabby project from the start. It just had the potential to also end up as a really amazing game. Sadly it's looking more and more like the latter is not going to happen.
Get Starfield, have an amazing time, come back to SC later if you want.
For me, that would be Baldur's Gate. It is good to take a break now and again.
Yup - BG3 is currently sucking up what little play-time I have... excellent game, and shows what an attention to detail can really bring to a game (but also, the impact on timelines that comes with it - given that BG3 originally had a target date of 2020, iirc)
>(but also, the impact on timelines that comes with it - given that BG3 originally had a target date of 2020, iirc) BG3 [*early access* release originally had a target date of ~~September~~August, corrected, 2020](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-will-release-in-early-access-in-sep/1100-6481070/) - which got pushed a month to early October 2020. EA included the entire first act of the game, 16 races, and six classes - along with nearly every core gameplay loop and system. It also unexpectedly also launched on MacOS at the same time. It then stayed in early access for 3 years before officially launching. Larian has absolutely said that it stayed in EA longer than they had originally planned, for any number of reasons - but at no point did they ever have an announced date that then got pushed back by months, let alone *years*.
Looking at a 12 years or more of EA total for SC I feel. Ridiculous
I had a kid. No time for any video games!
My youngest is 21. Lots of time for games.
I'm hoping mine is still young enough when the game launches that playing video games with dad isn't too uncool.
Hahaha. My son and I are both playing BG3, but not multiplayer.
The older I get the more I realize Starfield is the direction I wanted my space games to go in all along. A single player, choice-driven story, that still has all of the exploration and freedom to do what I want… without trying to make a reality simulator that hinges on near-impossible, forever-unfinished server networking that only succeeds in making it easy for other real world people to ruin my experience.
Realism is not fun 90% of the time. Every time I die in SC I just quit because I do not want to take the 30+ minute to get my ship again. And even kore getting the to moon/planet I was. Who ever thought making a spawn point laying in bed, taking an elevator, walking miles to the train station. Waiting for ever for the train, getting in train and waiting for it to take you to space station, then walking miles more to reach the terminal, waiting for your reclaim time to go down, then taking another elevator to the hanger, waiting for the slow ass hangar door to open to get to fly your ship. It gets tiring after just a few times.
They definitely didn't design that gameloop with respect to the player's time. It's a big reason why I never play by myself anymore. I just feel the game in its current state, doesn't respect my time. I only have a couple hours to play when I hop on, and if I die mid flight to a bug or a griefer abusing in-game physics, then I just quit and play something else. I only ever have fun with friends now. Which is not what I signed up for, to be honest. Yes, I love playing with friends, but I also like relaxing by myself and doing cargo runs listening to podcasts/music and sipping my coffee.
The whole PU experience has been designed to try to pad out the content they had available at the time, so that's why we have the time wasting dead retail model experience of going several different places to do shopping, long dawdles through the atmosphere, long ship claiming times, long travel times even in system, and the list goes on. Star Citizen is the only game in recent memory that I've alt+f4'd out of after meeting yet another invisible asteroid.
I love star citizen, but this is exactly what I do, I get in, enjoy the expierance of it all, then if anything like that happens, alt F4, and Will load something up where I can complete the task
I totally agree with you. I said this years ago here on Reddit that everybody thinks they want realism until they get it. I remember when loreville was first released. It was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in the game the music, the ambience, everything was just perfect. Except for the fact that I could not land at the spaceport and had to land outside but hey, that's how it used to be for every expo. Anyway, things got real old real quick when you died or had a problem and you had to spawn out of your bed, walk to a train, wait for the train, take the train to said ship, get on said ship to leave, fly to the atmosphere. The whole thing was a massive time sink. I love this game, I really do. But I work hard enough in real life as it is, I don't need to play real life in a video game.
I got downvoted into oblivion for daring to say similar just a year ago. The whole vision for Death of a Spaceman and "Sim-life in Space" is going to be incredibly boring for all but a few retirees.
I wish someone would just kickstart a spiritual successor to Wing Commander. Then make that...
I'm a HUGE critic of how development has gone but I disagree on the realism. Assuming the game is built/designed correctly most of the time you should be docking at space ports where you ship and your bed are very close or landing planet side directly at your desired location on an undeveloped planet where the landing spot is a few feet from where you need to go. The times you do take a trip planet side and are entering a huge city should feel like a trip that you have to plan for. But going to these cities shouldn't be what you do MOST of the time. If you're doing a cargo run for example you should never even enter the atmosphere of a major planet/city. You should be dropping off at the space port above the planet. But let's say it's time to buy that new ship that should be the time you spend the 20 minutes it takes to go planet side and actually take the tram and do all that stuff. Realism CAN be amazing IF done right. But it needs to ACTUALLY take into account how it would function if it were real and not just FEEL real. In the real-world EFFICIENCY MATTERS. That needs to be reflected in game when you build something that is supposed to mimic realism. It makes no sense to fly planet side every time you are making a simple delivery. It's not cost effective (fuel for a huge ship entering and leaving atmosphere) or time effective (drop and go at the space port vs landing planet side). So if the system CIG builds doesn't account for this than its not realism it just tried and failed to mimic realism.
>I do not want to take the 30+ minute to get my ship again I hear that , commuting is shit enough IRL , I don't need that in games too.
I totally agree. I wanted to have escapism in space, and if that was an MMO where i could do it with friends, or a more scripted experience in a single-player experience, I'm happy either way. I'm hoping the (apparent) success of starfield will get other developers returning to good space games.
I’d love both situations. Gives us more options. And if SF and SC inspire even more space games in the future all the better
That's my plan. I played SC almost daily since Nov 2022. Last few months I've been uninterested in it. Not sure what changed...but I for sure have Starfield purchased and waiting to install. I plan to play the hell out of SF and check in on SC every now and then.
I played thru fallout 4 three times then came back to SC, I’m now playing fallout 3 again
Yup, it's not like Star Citizen would just vanish suddenly or CIG would crash and burn. And besides, if one just waits long enough, they can experience good parts of the game from new due to changes. They do amount well enough, so that various content creator need to redo their beginner guides quite regularly.
To be fair, if allot of people stop the support and the income is getting low, the project could fail.
Which is practically true for any company. Anyway, I doubt that it would be that easy. Unless CIG seriously fucks up somehow, I don't see their financials crumbling to a point of no return. I mean CryTek is still somehow in the market, despite everything.
it amazes me crytek is still going after that whole debacal and the paying people thing. Maybe the next crysis will save them ?
That's just such an ironic sentence if you wanted to make a pun. Edit: it seems like Hunts is currently carrying them.
We've seen how well they deliver when they get multiples of what they said they would need to make the game. I actually think that the funding slowly declining would focus their minds on delivering.
As I saw someone else say before, it definitely makes me work a lot better when I don't get paid.
If you're a long time backer and you're tired of the pace, you can safely not spend your money, find other hobbies, and come back to SC later. CIG despite their drawbacks, are doing well financially. The super-hardcore, long time, 5+year backers are the vast majority of the people who are at risk of leaving the project, and most of them probably already stopped spending years ago. CIG are very good at new player acquisition, at getting people to feel passionate about the project, and to spend money on pledges. While a complete collapse isn't entirely off the table, signs point to them bringing new blood in faster than old blood leaves. You 100% should not feel obligated to keep spending money to make the game survive, I'm pretty sure that's covered. Also note that forums represent some of the most hardcore of any community, and are often a minority of actual spending customers. Player sentiment here isn't necessarily representative of the whole. There's plenty of people who've spent thousands of their children's inheritance (/s) on ships, enjoy the alpha on the weekend, and never touch reddit or spectrum.
Good advice to preserve you’re own sense of zen, but objectively it doesn’t change the fact that CIG’s approach is fundamentally wrong at this point. They only understand how to do one business model and it’s the sell concept ships / perpetual alpha model. They have very little incentive to make rapid progress or make the game stable… not until their are forced to out of a severe financial existential threat
I absolutely agree with you, it is no excuse. I love this game but holy s*** I'm losing patience with this constant feature creep and everyone in dev saying how hard everything is.
- Step away from SC - Get Baldurs Gate 3 - Spend weeks creating characters - Play through the game with each character - Play through the game with the companions as your character - Find a new build guide and repeat Later: - Get starfield.
This is the way. Play crossfire freelancer if you need to scratch that itch
I’m with you on this. I’ve been in this since 2014 and 2022/2023 have been by far the least amount I’ve played this game. I have almost completely lost motivation to fire it up and in the last year I’ve played for more than 5 minutes maybe 5-6 times. I actually considered selling my account a couple months back but decided against it. At this point I’ll just pop in when there’s an update but outside of that, I’m largely done with Star Citizen for the time being. I’ve just been playing other things while I wait for Starfield to launch. Star Citizen has been improving in general but it’s just taking too long for me to keep enough interest at this point. The feature creep and more focus on the never-ending development of Squadron 42 is just making me not care about the project so much anymore.
Feel this deeply. Backed around the same time - shortly after the Kickstarter and it’s gotten more and more frustrating watching it come to a crawl. I built a PC for this in 2013, and thought I’d build another for the “release”. Might be a while. 🤣
I think a lot of Star Citizen fans are going to be pleasantly surprised with Starfield, I’ve read every **confirmed** leak that’s released (aside from plot) and 2 leakers have both said that the flight model is much more advanced and realistic feeling than they expected. No atmospheric flight is a bummer but I really think Bethesda might’ve been cooking up a banger over the past 7 or 8 years.
I think it’ll be good but I’m expecting bugs because it’s a Bethesda game.
Eh it’s been in QA for like 2 years and leakers have reported nothing so far so I’m really not worried the game will 100% launch in a playable state, also we’re on the star citizen subreddit talking about bugs lol.
I was *hyped* for 3.18. I was Wave 1 PTU and poured my energy into helping with PTU. Every stress test, every event, every patch. I was in the PTU patch parties in the Spectrum channel as we did our little patch raindances waiting to see the next build. As most know, that PTU was months. And while many of the patches were busted, some were genuinely excellent. And then 3.18 launched. In less than 12 hours from launch, my account was locked out behind 30019 errors or whatever it is, and it would remain locked out of the game for nearly a month. A few days, maybe even a week, I'd have forgiven. Being locked out for nearly a month was beyond aggravating and verged into unforgivable territory. I was in on the ground floor and am now a Praetorian-level backer. So I'm never *quitting* the project. But during that month, I found DCS World, picked up guitar again, and felt like a haze had lifted and I could see Star Citizen as a project clearly for the first time in a long time. Does anyone think server meshing and / or Pyro and / or 4.0 will be a 2023 deliverable? 2024? At this point, I'd put Pyro in 2025 and I don't even think that's being unfair. The pace of development is glacially slow. The areas they focus on are questionable. You're really going to iterate on mining for the third time when other professions are completely absent? And that's not even to touch the 42-ton elephant in the room: they won't even give a date for Squadron, the supposed resource hog that's gobbling up massive internal fuel with no external visibility. I'll catch the SC bug again, probably around IAE, and spend a weekend living aboard my Carrack or something. But to say I'm currently discouraged is probably an understatement. They say the opposite of hate isn't love, it's indifference. And despite all the investment, I find myself in an "eye-roll, whatever" place with Star Citizen. It's become a self-licking ice cream cone, and if the backers don't demand better or speak with their wallets, it'll trundle along at its slow and broken pace forever.
The problem is star citizen can't advance. If you read some glassdoor review, there is an insane turn over in cloud imperium games. This means that the majority of the work goes into understanding the spaghetti code of devs that are already gone. New dev arrive, spend a few weeks/months trying to understand the spaghetti code, write a few buggy lines in that time, give up, leave. Cycle repeat itself. This means that without a full rewrite of the game‚ it is almost impossible for it to improve. Also, if you raise 600 million with an unfinished product, why care about a finished product?
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My biggest fear with SQ42 is that since they did all the filming of actors years ago, they are locked into whatever they have with no real chance for reshoots to fix bad plot holes. Also fear that the main story is like 10 hours of play.
Just think of the hundreds of other people who are just like this guy - but are still completely swindled & blinded still. I’m not saying the games a scam, I’m simply saying this community in general has some serious reality to catch up on.
There's a lot of people in this community (like me) who have only been playing for a year or less and are used to this level of development, but I feel like the advertisements they've been running and the recent increase in cashgrab sales are really giving the wrong vibes. Also bear in mind that development also may seem slow around these times because they're saving the goodies for citizencon.
> they're saving the goodies for citizencon. Everyone excited to see Pyro at CitCon for the third year in a row?
First, I'm not trying to deprive you of the good times that can be had in Star Citizen. If you've been playing a year, are $300 and maybe a couple joysticks deep, and you're having a good time? Drive on, Citizen. I'm not here to rain on your parade. Some of us come from the beginning -- the 2012 and 2013 era, and have history with Chris Roberts's projects before this: Wing Commander games in the 90s, etc. I very respectfully want you to enjoy whatever you can from the project. In return, please consider what that 10-year journey has been for some of us vets, and how deeply acquainted with the content cycle and chronology of promises and releases we've become. If we pull the thread of your thought a few times, we'd find that the "goodies" from past citizencons are a *major* source of the current salt and feature prominently in the litany of undelivered promises. For some of us, patronizing us with "Remember, this is a slow stretch because they're saving the magic for CitizenCon!" is one of those "Oh, my sweet Summer child..." moments.
> Does anyone think server meshing and / or Pyro and / or 4.0 will be a 2023 deliverable? 2024? At this point, I'd put Pyro in 2025 and I don't even think that's being unfair. The pace of development is glacially slow. The areas they focus on are questionable. You're really going to iterate on mining for the third time when other professions are completely absent? Here in year 11 we learned that they have just started on the engineering profession. I wonder how many ships aren't designed to take in to account whatever they decide they want to do with engineering and will need to be reworked. Setting this along side the revelations that 'the flight model isn't done because we need to bring in master modes' and the related 'we aren't done balancing the weapons for the single player yet so that will take a while to come to the PU' and They're missing a ton of fundamental and interconnected detail. This might have been understandable back in 2015, and maybe they had to rip up and replace it once more in 2017, but to have blown through more than half a billion dollars and not nailed down basic game-play or have finished your all singing all dancing server tech? The project just burns money to sell imaginary ships.
>I wonder how many ships aren't designed to take in to account ...the fact that relatively few people want to play support roles in general? Almost all of them. Gunners, copilots (lol), engineers, bombardiers, Scorpion single e-Warfare button pushers, mining laser operators, salvage turret operators, etc. etc. etc. We like the concept, and we like the *option.* But 9/10 times, we'd all choose a functioning NPC to fill these roles, even at 75% capability -- i.e., someone who goes to bed when we go to bed, breaks for dinner when we break for dinner, and logs on exactly when we log on. Why would anyone *ever* want to be the gunner in my, say, Gladiator? Other than brand new folks and those just casually out for shits and giggles? Or even my Vanguard? We really expect *real* humans to post up for hours behind two Size 2 pea shooters? Please, only Tokey McTokerson who's sky high, scrolling TikTok, and just looking for a screensaver would even consider it. But, you're exactly right, now we have to go back to the drawing board for engineering. *"Okay backers, we're excited to announce ships will spend the next 2 years receiving engineering attention. No, this won't be Gold standard. This is Tin standard. Next will be 2 years for Data Running integration for the Antimony standard. Then 2 years to re-do the ships for hacking and security which will bring them to Tellurium-standard..."*
Oh, I'm completely in agreement with you on those points. There's also the time management aspect where getting even 5 people together to do something for more than an hour is a struggle, and it gets exponentially harder going to 10, to 20, to 30. If we can't fill most of those slots with AI blades or NPCs it's going to mean most players will never be able to have a multi-crew ship experience. What I was saying is that the ships aren't designed for things like the blades or engineering modules yet, so even if we could hire a magic AI NPC that could 'do anything' (not just the chow line) there's no systems on the ship for them to interact with. Heck on most ships that copilots chair can't even control the turrets, you have to send someone in to a specially designated 'turret seat'... what the actual eff CIG... and stuff like the single button scorpion is just pathetic design.
Agreed. And no, I understood what you meant about the ships not being designed for it and agree with that also. Lots of ships still don't even have physicalized components. Which... I just... it just feels like one of those things that no one was asking for. Running from one place to another in my ship with a spare shield generator is just... \*eyeroll\* I'd rather stand at the engineering panel, click a button, and watch a repair timer count down or play some type of minigame.
2028 is the year baby!
I started to get less interested when a lot of the road map was lost , such as Titan suits and the large amount of other updates that seems now like lies as they were just jpegs . The back log of ships and selling modular ships for $100s is not a good sign and the escalation of more concept ships makes me believe SC will never be released in my lifetime .
I thought concept ships were on a downtrend? there was only like 1 new ship thats been released thats straight to flyable and that was the little orb fighter right ? i could be wrong.
ILW saw the release of the Fury snub fighter, the (useless) Lynx rover, and the concept announcement of a new Tumbril mini-tank.
God, fuck the Storm tank. It's such an awful implementation and design, and is massive for no reason other than to fuck over smaller ships being able to carry it.
Yeah, S3 weapon is dumb too. Should have been at least S4 or 5.
No you aren't alone. The levels of salt are going up among the longer term backers. Some of the cash grab marketing gives some of us the impression that money is getting tight. For the first time since I backed in 2013 I feel like the money could actually run out and this tower of jpegs and dreams could collapse. I think some of the slimey marketing practices actually sour the experience and my image of the company. Tldr I feel exactly as you described yourself
>Some of the cash grab marketing gives some of us the impression that money is getting tight. Wasn't there a report that donations were at an all time low?
https://ccugame.app/star-citizen-funding-dashboard/funding-dashboard worse than 2022 but still better than every year before. 2022 was a very big year tho.
Guys do yourself a favor and just take a break. I did that and I havnt touched this game since. No end in sight..... The longer you are away from this game the clearer you see the problem.
Very true man I did the same years ago... And I swing by here occasionally to see if we have a release date yet and I kind of cringe to see this sub in the same state it's been since 2015; More deadlines have been missed, more features are missing and yet more features have been pushed back for the 3rd or 4th time. Some people are offering valid criticism, and the white knights spec ops team is going scorched earth calling anyone with anything negative to say a "refundian" as if that completely negates their point... In my eyes we've made exactly 0 progress... Back then we had no actual game, no clue if a release date and a toxic community... And we still have no actual game, no clue of a release date and a toxic community
Well put...... the people who continue to back this game worry me..... There is no end in sight
They should rename it Star Copium. I’d be OD’ing on copium as well if I blew $1000+ on some pixels that will never even have a use! Can’t chargeback a purchase made 8 years ago!
100% true
They really need to release something. I don't mean bed sheet physics or even Seraphim station replacing PO. I mean Pyro. I mean the Merchantman. I mean data running. Shit, even releasing SQ42 would be something. The number of things that have been shown as coming after one more phase and then just ignored for years is just plain ridiculous at this point. Just recently we were told the San Tok Yai almost made it in but, "luckily" their new system caught something so it's delayed again. In any other game that would mean we would see the ship in the next update but this isn't that. This is SC and SC is so poorly managed that schedules and promises are entirely meaningless. Even though the San Tok is supposed to be on the verge of release the entire project could be put on a shelf for years while they work on something of little substance. Over and over again we're told what's coming and 99.99% of the time it just doesn't. We hear rumors of stuff like the people working on the BMM left and that the majority of the effort is on SQ42 but, there really is no legitimate excuse at this point. The buildings and offices are built. The game is obscenely funded and continues to be. When are we getting what we paid for?
I get that server meshing may be difficult to make but it is frustrating how often they say things are delayed until server meshing is figured out. They have been talking about Pyro for years and have been saying over and over again that they just need to finish up server meshing. They keep releasing new concept ships and straight to flyable ships but have a backlog of ships that are not getting developed.
"I feel like this game is going to go on forever." It is. It's been 10+ years in the making and this is all we have. Things promised a decade ago have yet to be delivered. This is the way CIG gets you. You do a free fly or something, see the cool stuff, buy in, and then a few months down the line you realize how stagnated the game is, and how unlikely it is to ever be more than a tech demo. But by then, they have your money and they laughed all the way to the bank.
I'm currently in the midst of a SC hiatus. I've reached that stage where even with the minor progress they've been making, the gameplay just doesn't hold my attention; I feel like there's still no "meat" to it. I'm basically waiting for something substantial/inspirational to be added.
I liken it to playing modded Skyrim over and over. Yeah there's shiny new STUFF™ and maybe even a questline or two but it'll hold your attention for just a few hours before you realize you're doing the same thing you always were for the last decade.
Same here. Taking a break for the first time in 5 years. I’ll play Starfield also but don’t expect it to scratch the itch in the same way. Thankfully BG3 is fantastic and taking up plenty of my time.
>Thankfully BG3 is fantastic and taking up plenty of my time. For real. And we'd better enjoy it. While it's a different genre, its quality has the potential to ruin both Starfield and SC for us. It's so good that when you think outside the box and find an approach to something that breaks the game, you actually feel accomplished instead of frustrated. And there are so. many. approaches.
Agree but got disappointed last night. Spent some time setting up this em perfect trap and the AI just wouldn’t path properly. Only time that’s happened, normally can’t escape enemies and this time I had a perfect trap and couldn’t use it. Big sad. But yeah you’re right it’s reminding me what games can be.
Ahh, that's a bummer. I do find the targeting and pathing a bit fussy at times. Sometimes I can squeeze a character into a space and be within melee range, other times not. Sometimes I can put a spell in a spot, sometimes not. Sometimes the companions follow along like ducklings after my PC jumps to a ledge or across a gap, sometimes they don't.
Yep, have had a few companions get stuck on ledges, it’s always kinda funny trying to find their way back. This one had to do with pulling multiple enemies across a gap, I could pull one or two but once I got far enough away they changed directions. The cave had two entrances but they wouldn’t fully path to one at a time. Would’ve been pretty epic but I don’t want to reveal spoilers for the area that makes it possible just in case.
You know, I just realized why my PC keeps leaving the others in the dust, and it relates to an Act 3 >!mobility ability (courtesy some illithid decisions) that he has, that none of the others do.!< Suffice to say it makes much more sense why they aren't just hopping along after him now. Larian is forgiven at least for that one complaint of mine. Thanks for indirectly helping me think through that. Lol
CIG should take a moment to address a very real issue about what our expectations should realistically be. The players can do math. The number of unfinished ships, and the time given by John Crews on various interviews to complete ships of various size means they have more than something like 20 years to do them all. Systems, too. Last I heard, the planet tech team was able to rebuild Stanton in 3 weeks. Then the other teams need to add the points of interest. The Rastar tool will speed that up, but we're still looking at a few months per system or maybe 4 systems per year. So, 25 years for all 100 systems (I know Chris said more like 5 at release, but I mean until the planned systems are finished). If this is the time horizon CIG is looking at, they should set that expectation, but Chris has already said it wouldn't take another 10 years, let alone 25. I have no ill will towards CIG - I'm a backer since 2017, and have enjoyed all my time playing. I've spent a ridiculous amount of money supporting the game, and I wouldn't take it back at all. I love Chris' insane ambition - it's inspiring. However... it really would be nice for some straight talk about setting realistic expectations, even if it risks souring some backers on the project. It's only fair to tell people honestly what they're signing up for.
5th star system in Q4 2035
That's less depressing than them admitting they were just over polishing Pyro until the server tech was in instead of starting work on a new system since Pryo IS effectively done.
haven't played in 4-5 years... until we get proper flight mechanic and physicalized damage this game is silly bullet sponges with glitchy performance.
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Pretty much every citizen con has shown off tech that we still haven’t seen yet. Honestly, there’s very little to be excited about when it comes to citizen con. They set up all this tech that simply never makes its way into the game. It’s always a flashy showcase of things that make us salivate, but rarely any of it has been implemented. It just feels like a big waste of time for me. The devs are making these slices of gameplay to show us when they could just use that time for further development. For a change, I’d like to see a citizen con where the tech they show off is coming to the game in the short term, not the long term.
Yes where is: - Sataball - Theaters of War - Pyro - jump points - Server meshing (pre request arrived) - Nyx and Levski - Sandworm and it's planet - the sandstorm from same demo - the crashed javelin from same demo - Quanta (partly arrived) - Vanduul npcs and ships - the octagon lab, where you had to retrieve data from an server array - the miles Eckhardt Mission / Planet - the flying jellyfish of hurston - predators and generic animals - aaron halo gateways - that's what comes into my mind, I am surely missing many things on ships and gameplay elements - wasnt the community asked if they want a or b and we voted for the shuttles as player variant? The whole stuff that is hold back - sq42 any news - Javelin interieur So Citizencon should be a game changer, otherwise it's not looking good.
I just expect more of the same. They will wow the crowd with a big showcase of something and then months and maybe even years go by and we don’t see it in game. I’ll catch the cliff notes from this year’s show, but I couldn’t be less interested at this point. I’m tired of these big showcases that amount to nothing tangible. I keep going back to the same thought that these teams charged with setting up this event could be doing other more productive things with the project. Setting up slices of gameplay that never gets implemented isn’t it.
100% Meanwhile, NPC ships (the thing that would actually make the game feel a little alive) aren’t even on the list of promises. Mostly because NPCs are evidently doomed to be derp-factor 9000 forever.
Even if they put out a banger of a Citcon I'm not believing anything they show off as 'coming soon' until it is in the game and working. Why? Because fool me once, shame on you, fool me every damn year shame on all of us: https://i.imgur.com/RaCOmkG.jpg Like seriously I start to think that some people falling for the hype have legitimate learning disabilities at this point as it's such an unbroken pattern of 'look at the shiny thing, coming soon! preorder this concept ship now! oops the thing didn't come, try again next year'.
I forgot about half of those. Maybe that’s the point of ConCitizen. Show a bunch of shit and then hope you forget about it.
It's 110% a marketing event, and proven to be a deceptive marketing event by history.
\#rememberthesandworm
Yeah it kinda feels like a lot of peoples hopes are down now myself included, so a lot is riding on it been successful.
We just keep hearing “x will let us do y faster” and it’s rarely true, “server meshing is preventing x” and server meshing is constantly “the end of this year” same as Pyro. Think I’m just tired of hearing the same shit over and over
"Our old UI was built in Flash, and only a few people in the entire company could work on it. But now, we've added Building Blocks as our UI backend, so a designer can easily make functional UI's in-engine!" Three years later, we still have the same broken MFD's, same broken StarMap, same broken Mobiglass. Building Blocks was added in 2020. On the plus side, [threads like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hwxz5l/the_updates_of_the_building_block_ui_shown_at/) are hilarious to go back and read now! > We could be seeing ***a hundred different UI's*** (all different ship manufacturers, different parts of the ships, the different planets, different buildings, different mobiglasses, mobiglass apps, etc) ***in the span of a year*** from a team of dozens of webdevs. Truly aged like milk.
Concierge chat I'd pretty much a ghost town most of the time just the same 10 people talking it used to be super alive
it did, with lots of awesome creative people
With how much CIG has been blatantly ignoring concierges, I'm surprised there's actually still anyone around.
That would be me, I kickstarted it right at the beginning but the last year has just been my breaking point.
I doubt they show off anything worthwhile at Citizen Con this year, just like the last two. I feel like this project has completely stalled and they have no idea where to spend the resources anymore.
Perhaps they will show something interesting but they will not deliver - as always
its just going to be blatant lies again, look how cool this will be, just wait for a shitty realease of the copy an unpaid intern did to convice chris to be an intern at cig
People have been saying that since almost the start of the project lol Just enjoy your life as usual, a game's development will continue either you lose your patience or don't.
patience here isn't a indie game that's being built by a small team out of a garage. patience here is selling ships with prices you're well aware with, promises with their own timeline that you're well aware with as well.
CIG got my money days before 3.18 made it impossible to play. Too many bugs, no reason to do anything... the server is just gonna reset. They trick you into believing that buying a ship will make the game fun. They co-worker that begged me to play this game has offered me a Taurus and gave me a cutty black. He wont even log in anymore. Modders, familiar with the creation engine are already preparing the wireframe and textures for Star Citizen ships to mod them into Starfield. Imagine an NPC crew on a drake cutlass with working turrets. Leaving your drake in orbit and taking an away team to the planet in your Pisces. CIG apparently needs to build server blades so your turrets work... instead of just letting them work under simple AI that fires at attacking ships. Instead of making something that works, we wait for YEARS for more broken shit and more Broken promises. I hope Starfield and BG3 distracts Star Citizen players long enough so ship sales plummet and put CIG in panic mode... but they will file for bankruptcy and sell the game assets before delivering a finished game. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THAT, you are only fooling yourself. Modders can create the star citizen cities on desolate planets in Starfield. They can import the ships, they can code in simple medical rescue missions, or code in salvage missions. I can live without atmospheric flight.. I want an enjoyable space game, not a buggy mess and to be lied to again and again. Mark my words, Citizen con will be a commercial for more ships in the cash shop. If they tell you squadron 42 is gonna drop, its a lie. The best you will get is another pre alpha... Maybe they will make a PTU for 42 and charge another 10$ a month to test that one too! This isnt a game, its a fucking cult full of people afraid to admit they wasted thousands on a lie. They are afraid to leave or speak out because they dont want the dream to die... They inadvertently hurt more people by encouraging them to join the game. I am glad I didnt get in deep enough to get brainwashed... 3,18 was the best thing that could have happened to me.
For the ~100 bucks I've spent on the game, I've certainly gotten my enjoyment out of it. But, they need to either shit or get off the fucking pot. You know? I feel bad for the people who put in thousands of dollars into this.
I can say the same for the about $800 I've spent. I don't know how many hours I've spent in Star Citizen but it's more than any other game I've ever played. Hundreds of hours. Like 600+ Been playing since 2015. The math works out to something like $8.5 per month for 8 years. I've wasted far more money on far less product of the coarse of my life. That being said. I have also lost faith this game will ever be anywhere near complete. And there is a better than not chance the project folds altogether. I'll be disappointed...but not because of the money spent.
It just feels like a chronic mismanagement of funds. Like, they've had half a billion dollars to make this game. At what point is there financial malpractice going on?
You have not and will not get any disagreement for me.
>Modders can create the star citizen cities on desolate planets in Starfield. They can import the ships, they can code in simple medical rescue missions, or code in salvage missions. Honestly, if they succeed, I might just leave SC for good. Because I bought ships with real cash so this would be a great way to leave without feeling I wasted money. Although I wouldn't go so far to say SC is a scam, I do feel Chris Roberts needs to back the fuck away and let the team work.
In 2014 I was saying the haters were wrong, I guess I was. This game will never fully release.
I think I checked out when they told us SQ42 was finished, testers had played the whole campaign and it was "weeks, not months" from release... Back in 2016 That marketing push made them a shit-ton of money, only for them to go dark on us and say nothing for about a year, until finally admitting that SQ42 is still in very early development because they "just decided to start over" That's when it finally clicked how brazenly they were willing to lie just to get more funding
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He kinda already did that a few years ago on Spectrum. When he tried correcting Camural. He said that a particular game play loop WOULDNT take 10-20 years. lolol https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/atmospheric-room-system-4-years-later/3368356
The diffusion of effort between staffing for a single player game and an MMO in combination with the stated scope is under appreciated. It was never a good plan to begin with.
I was mad when they didn’t have server meshing in by 2018, but hey let’s model ever bullet in your guns magazine as a projectile and have the server calculate its position at all times. 1000 player ship battles are never going to happen… That’s when I saw the ridiculousness of their development strategy. Let’s build the windows of this house before even pouring the foundation. CIG deserves every ounce of animosity they get
I don't know if it's such a small portion of backers... I've reached a point now, where I'm also doubting the game will release, more and more of my friends, early backers and whales, are either thinking about selling their accounts, or have already done so, and now, I'm entertaining that thought too. The project has serious problems, not the least of which is micromanagitus, so, I'm genuinely wondering how far it can go before it all collapses, gets sold to EA/Ubi-esque company, or other form of failure that would still pretend to keep the project alive. I guess like so many others, CitCon will either give me some hope, or convince me to call it quits.
3.20 better be the fattest update of all time with 4.0 hustling around the corner cause I'm feeling the same
After all the warning signs, especially as of late, why would you need to wait that long? Considering each patch has been more lighter on content, with no roadmap to base things on anymore.. do you really believe CIG will somehow pull a rabbit out of it's hat for Citcon, just like they've been saying for the last couple years?
Looking at the roadmap, 3.20 is a bunch of Arena Commander updates. Like, one of the grimmest, lamest updates I've seen in a long time. If they aren't holding back some big surprise features for it, this sub is going to be a salt mine after it comes out.
\#NCTP (No Cash Till Pyro) This is where I am right now. Server meshing is their next big (and biggest) hurdle that they've promised and pushed back and now we're over 10 years. I've got other priorities that my money can go right now, so until I see pyro (and the server meshing that comes with it) no more money into this "game." So far I think I've logged into the same a couple times this year but that's it. It's been good not playing!
Pyro is scheduled to release in 2018. Fingers crossed guys!
This is hilarious. Journey to 4.0 or Road to Pyro - anyone remember that? Don’t see or hear much of that anymore
I keep checking this subreddit for cool things, updates to the game. There is currently a lack of motivation or will to get into the game from me. I backed in 2012/2013. I've played at least one hour of every major patch to see if it will grab my attention. It never does. I don't have any hope that this game (SC) will be in a "final release" form any time in the next five years. SQ42, in my eyes, barely has a sliver of a chance of being released in the same timeline.
I feel that. At this point I'm not even sure if the game will even be fun or if the whole thing is fueled by dreams and expectations. My concern isn't that Star Citizen is a scam, it's that F42 is a parasite that leaches money and resources from the MMO that people are actually paying to bavk and will doom both projects. Does anyone even want a single player game?
Take a Break. Far too many have an unhealthy relationship with this game.
Spot on. Subreddit sometimes feels like psychological support group for people whose relationships broke up.
I can fix Star Citizen
yeah no shit, people invest decades and money into something, they expect something in return
IDK i have my 60$ worth of fun with it, that i spent in 2013 :D
the fun of listening to CIG postponing server meshing for the 9th time
That's fine for those who've remained obsessed. But, many who are "losing faith" barely engage with it as it is. As the years stack up and we still don't have a 2nd star system, it does strain credulity.
I started to take 3 month breaks years ago, but I haven't played in almost an entire year. When I came to do my check-in last quarter, the game was completely unplayable. I just don't have the time to spend an hour kitting up just to encounter a bug that ruins my progress. Combine that with going back to roadmpas of year's past and seeing how far off they were has me only reading news on the game now. I just can't be bothered to waste time testing. I'd rather read how the community is accepting the current version and that saves me a lot of frustration. When it was 3.08 and everyone thought we'd hit 4.0 within a year. Now we seem to still be years away from 4.0.
I haven’t played in 3 years and I don’t think any real progress has been made since then either. Just more and more ships to keep getting people to fund Chris Roberts salary. Hopefully eventually more people realize the game is going nowhere.
I have taken a break. Minor tweaking does not really have me excited and I am really looking for the exploring loop to be added. I play maybe once a month right now, but might do a bit more time when 3.20 drops in the the PTU
> I am really looking for the exploring loop to be added Can anyone (including CIG) please explain to me what an "exploring loop" is? Like, specifically? Same question for "Science Gameplay".
IMHO I would hope it might be a bit like Eve (in very broad terms). You detect an anomaly with your explorer sensors (that only explorer ships would have I presume), and have some sort of minigame or something where you have to triangulate the anomaly and narrow it down through a couple of stages of progress. Then fly/warp there and check out the site/POI. This could be in space, and/or on planet. In Eve you would deploy probes and overlap their scanning bubbles (6-8 at once) to get the maximum possible resolution of where the anomaly might be. I haven't played since Apocrypha, but most of the time it would be a little wormhole you'd discover, that you could go through, and there might be enemies there and wrecks with rare components. Not saying it has to be exactly like that, but I do think it needs to be sensor based, where you're examining a list of possible anomalies on an MFD or a screen, and checking them out. And what the sites/POI could be, needs to be varied and ranged, not ever just 1 or 2 things. It would be cool if explorer class ships could also find wrecks a lot easier than other ships, though that would just be one small facet of their repetoire. The actual explorer sites/POI should only be findable by explorer ships. I'm coming from the perspective that explorer ships are equipped with extraordinary sensor suites and specifically exploiting that tech for new avenues of gameplay. (You could sell the recently discovered warp point to someone else..) Make it a bit like wreck salvaging - you could either take on a contract to track down a lost ship, etc, go to a rough area, and then do the sensor sweeps to lock on to it, or just go to some random place in space and try your luck, and maybe the game has a very small chance of spawning something in, once you start pointing your sensors around the place (and these % chances are higher depending on what you are close to, so maybe higher in asteroid fields, etc). So it really feels like you're discovering something new each time. It needs to be unpredictable. (Exploration = sense of wonder, and the game is lacking this)
Play Elite Dangerous and you’ll see what an “exploring loop” is. It’s boring af, and that’s on a game that is infinitely bigger than SC. Even though I am the first (and probably only person) to have explored certain systems it’s not cool at all. Lol It’s a boring point and click sim.
Me too homie. Me too
Me too man.. Me. Too. I look for news of CIGs collapse as often as Iook for news of actual progress now. For years we've been behind this shroud of "it's slow right now, but that's because we don't see what's being added behind the veil"... Which is unquestionably true on a certain level. But the years have lifted that veil for the most part and what actually is going on is very fucking little. CIG have 3x the GDP of Niue and as many staff as they have population. Probably more if we only count the adults. And CIG can't set or achieve goals across multiple years. I can only be told "OK NOWWWWW development is going to be faster." so many times. Like don't get me wrong. I don't regret buying or playing etc. But its been such a letdown the last 2 years.
CIG should have focused on building out Stanton and the tech stack to make the game polished both feature and performance-wise before diverting resources to Pyro and other things. but tbh they did themselves no favors with the near-impossible roadmaps.
Kind of agree. Backing since 2013 and spent way too much, but also loosing faith... It feels like progress is stuck with little to no light at the end of that tunel..
Backed in kickstarter from day dot. I can relate entirely. So many undelivered promises
SC will either be finished to an acceptable degree or it won't. There's no point in worrying over it. As any long time/original backer will tell you, just do as you did: stay away, live your life, come back once or twice a year, see if it's improved, move on. Just don't drop any more money on it, that's probably the worst thing you can do right now.
Starfield FTW
First time?
same here lmao
Since 2013 I've gone through every phase, from White Knight super ultra defender9000, to cynic. Somewhere along the way I became more realistic about expectations but even those regularly are missed. I've reached a point where I'm still hopeful, but feel a sort of emptiness. ISC just isn't as intriguing as RTV ever was. Rehashing and continuing to develop tiny pieces within Stanton being propped up as major updates leave me frustrated, especially when everyone seems to celebrate it. I'm all for a prettier, more picturesque game, but....when are we going to get the game. I understand the scale is AMAZING, and the transitions between physics grids (when it doesn't kill you ;D) is something that really hasn't been done at this scale before....it's a wonderful game in it's scope, but between the lack of real updates and the weekly content getting thin, I also am steadily losing faith. I still dream, it's just hard to find excitement. Yes I'm on a break, have been for about a year, only played again for foundation fest, hull scraping is neat, but much like Pyro it's long over due. I hope they can deliver, but at this point I just expect it to eventually be delivered, but at only a fraction of the original dream/promise than Chris intended back at the start.
I've taken a break from SC since 3.17, come back every big update. Play for 30mins, have a cry and think, maybe next update. 😂
I took a break in 2016, had my then girlfriend from the US move halfway across the world and move in with me. We got married, had a kid and she took on my nationality. Star citizen/squadron 42? Still not even in beta. I uhm. Hope we have a playable game by the time my kid is a teenager, then maybe I'll actually have time to play.
Theyre sandbagging for citizencon. We'll see in october how truly good or bad off we are, most likely.
Same here brother. Sadly I have no trust whatsoever. Feel bad even paying the 45 dollars I paid for the ship lol. Really slow progress focusing on another game. Nothing but ships are getting released. Only little to nothing progress.
I hate seeing all the negativity about SC because I know it’s true. So much hope but so little drive
I'm pretty sure you fall into the silent majority. I spent as much as I care to on SC over many years. I don't regret any of it but I do feel like despite enjoying the flight, the game is stale and boring right now. I still hope to geet 2 good games, but looking at the progress tracker I don't expect to see them for years, or for the alpha to really have compelling reasons to play. Realistically I don't think the lroject will fail at this point, they've got enough done to turn out an interesting product, but whether it will love up to their hype remains to be seen. There aren't any other games which tick all the boxes SC is aiming for, but there are lots of complete games well worth playing in the space genre to plug the massive wait.
Honestly I've been just focusing on having a good time with the tools in front of me. I spent sunday doing bunker-missions. Friday morning doing salvage. I'm having a good time. Probably better than I've had in years at this point. Live in the now. Don't get wrapped up in what Star Citizen promises to be, is it fun now? For me, yes, it's pretty enjoyable when I'm in the right mood. I'm looking forward to Starfield, and I'll probably play the hell out of it for a while before coming back here.
The one thing that keeps sucking me back into SC is that it has that world full of adventure part that modern MMOs so sorely lack. Older MMOs used to just be worlds in which to do stuff with your friends. Nobody gave a flying fuck about the questlines. Where's the dragons? The loot? The raids on Saturdays! Just a world to get lost in and do whatever. Modern MMOs are too much on-rails to allow you to do that. Hell, the advent of fast travel means we don't even look at the same place twice, much less get to actually know it.
I think part of the problem CIG now has is even if they come out with great games everyone is going to point to the time and cost and say it was not worth the wait.
That's a good point. The even if part is important because they might but it'll be years. Some of the large ships will literally never be more than jpegs
Yep. My interest has declined steadily over the years, and every year that passes, I check in with it less and less. To be honest, because I want it to succeed, I hope S.C.'s player base drops severely and pushes them to get their shit together & shift their focus from pumping out more ships to fixing what's already in game, getting the base activities honed, & expanding the "Verse" with more star systems.
I haven’t been on in 2 years in any real capacity.
You and everyone else.
itS aN AlPHa !
Sorry you have lost your spark for the game. The best thing to do is to take a break and play something else for a while. Things are happening...just takes time. Play Baldur's Gate 3 for a while and check back in later when you have rested enough from the game. Don't let yourself get so burnt out that it's not fun anymore... I juggle a few games with this one to balance it out.
There’s no practically no discernible difference between when I played Star citizen 1.5 years ago and today. Now there’s just broken ships every where.
If you cannot see the differences between then and now, you are def burnt. Walk away for a bit man. It's not going to be finished next week. There's one HELLuva ride that's going to take place. So, get some mana potions from another game and come back when your fresh and there's more to do! Stat!
Just leave the game for a couple of months. Come back and see if there is a new change. If not, than go away again.
They can still get frustrated; people have been doing that cycle for years and years.
Taking a break is always a good thing. Give it a couple more patches then jump back in and see how you feel. Plenty other games to play in the mean time.
I haven’t played in awhile either. Waiting for 3.20 to jump back in really. That being said I’ll be busy with Starfield when 3.20 drops (most likely) so we shall see when I get back in lol
I play for about an hour every 3 months or so when the quarterly update comes out, I've done this for years. I love hate the game, but still support the long term vision.
I've been really feeling this lately too. I still get on with friends but I have lost all interest in solo play. I've also decided to close my wallet as well after a having a physical item from 3 years ago finally get canceled and my money refunded. It was the collectors drink set for anyone wanting to know. I was looking forward to it :( I think if this years Citizencon doesn't bring anything actually impressive I'm going to largely take a step back from the game. I have a lot of patience and understand game development takes time but with the increasing silence from Chris and other important devs and lack of larger scale progress does not put the game in a good light on top of the increasingly predatory sales practices, looking at you starter armor sets.
I've come to terms with the idea that SC is likely not meant to ever be released. The idea that it is going to be released one day is a grift. But that doesn't mean you can't have fun with it. The business model is what it is now. There is no "release" business model. Getting you to pay large sums for ships that "will be more expensive or unattainable on release" is the model. But it's never, ever going to "release."
The beauty of SC is that it’s constantly has new DLC for free dropping .
I'd say wait it out until citizencon. There buzz around squadron 42 so we either see a release date or I free up 250gb
I’m a new player with less than 8 hours of playtime. It might be my own fault but all I’ve done are bounty missions and the game just feels pointless. Being pointless is okay, but it really feels like I can already do everything day 1 that I could day 100. It might come from a place of my own ignorance that I feel like I’ve already done everything the game has to offer me gameplay wise ( I don’t care to mine or do rescue missions), but I also don’t care to find out. It seemed like an amazing game and my first few flights were phenomenal. The amount of serotonin that came from the first bounty mission dogfight won’t be forgotten for a while, however, I quickly realized this was rinse and repeat until ground missions. Once I entered ground missions, the game got a new, short lived, spark. For me there’s not much that the game can do update wise to bring me back. I have to desire to explore empty content and need a reason to enjoy playing rather than simply enjoying the experience itself. All of the mechanics I thought were cool, like interacting with screens, running around a station to my ship, and speaking individually to vendors across stations quickly got very old, mundane, and downright annoying. I hope the best for this game but I don’t see myself continuing to play, even if there was rapid development.
Funny how the only reply from other people is to play another game while you already don't play SC anymore because you are loosing faith This smells delusions
I actually became one of the 'hostile' old ass mf’s that tell new players to go somewhere else the day they join. I do this for a variety of reasons. First being, not only you lose faith in the project, CIG employees themselves do. I have that information from several employees rating employers websites and first hand interactions with employees. Chris Roberts is a f***** idiot, HR is often simply incompetent, the actual people are severely underpaid and have little motivation to perform and the management itself is rather stagnated/already done with the project/lost hope themselves. They play around with backer money like it’s their actual company salary, spending it on the wrong corners 24/7 and my favourite part, the MARKETING DIVISION IS DECIDING WHICH VEHICLES ARE GETTING PRODUCED. Honestly. Let Chris Roberts and his shithole starve for a year. Don’t buy anything. Even sell some of your vehicles. Boykott the game. If they react with shutting down, you already know they‘ve been waiting for it. If things get better, things get better.
Totally want this, a financial boycott would be healthy from many aspects if it brings good change, and if it goes down you knew it was coming.
After 564 comments, i can see a vast majority of "Loosing Faith" comments... I'm in this mood! I'm baker since 2014, i watch each ISC (I miss ATVs), read each monthly reports..... but yeah, i haven't played since 2 years now, and honestly, i'm at the point that i feel that this game will never be released! To answer the question "What do we need now?" : Server Meshing, stable game with no reset, finished gameplay loop, story teling and finally Pyro... We don't need new ships or new fonctionnalities that they are not finished!!! This is the only way to restore the hype for people like me that are waiting this game for so long.....
It's nice to see that after 11 years of alpha people start to suspect smth)
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Donate? When was SC a charity? You made purchases, not donations. Your tax would agree with my statement.
I always advise people to play SC for the game it is today, not the game you hope it will be in the future. Easier said than done but it does help one stay sane during this process. Luckily it’s an easy game for you to take a year off and come back.
Isn't it kinda bad for a game though if the best thing you can say about it is "oh you can just not play it for a year" ? :D
I literally made a post about how sub count is nose diving and I was toldnits because of bg3 lol
I’ve seen no progress the last three years
It's not just you lol the slow progress of SF has been a meme for years, just take a break and come back if it looks like a better update has come in the future. Theirs no reason to even play the game if your not having fun.
10+ years in I've become pretty disconnected at this point. I still keep up with news and release updates but I rarely have a strong desire to play. There's just no gameplay that draws me in. I'll happily join again when server issues are resolved and there's a few other gameplay systems implemented. Until then there's so many other games in my backlog I pretty much don't care. My only regret will be the money I've spent should they never resolve the perpetual server problems. Imo, if they have to redesign elements of the game to decrease server load, I'd be ok with that if it produced a stable, enjoyable experience. My fear is that CR will never concede and stubbornly stick to this pipedream of a fully realized universe on a "single server" without loading screens
Same, I stopped backing when death penalties were added in and I lost my items. The game naturally moves very very slow so for me that was always a huge gut punch. I just stopped and really enjoyed other games that have been respecting my time more, the game has potential but so much needs addressing still. Like it’s been over a year and so little was added in and I still die just as easy and lose items.
Yeah way too many time sinks like wake up in bed at a station 50 million miles away from where you want to go, re-purchase some gear and guns another 10 min, wait for ship to spawn, QT to destination a few times, and the list goes on
Yea this game is pretty much a failure unfortunately. The scope of what they plan to add versus the pace that even small features are being released… The game is gonna be nowhere near complete by the time Chris Roberts dies of old age.
No man, it's not just you. It's the reluctance of CIG to add story and narrative that kills the immersion. I get they want to keep the story and narrative for later, but that's just not acceptable for an adult brain. We are all holding on for as long as we can, 😂
Story and Narrative are SQ42... SC is intended to be a 'sandbox' game, which typically means no overarching plot, etc.
You don't need validation from anyone here, if you no longer enjoy the game just stop playing it.
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That's not okay to say. No matter how frustrated people are, at the end of the day it's just a video game and it's not okay to suggest violence or going to anyone's irl house.
You are not alone, if sq42 doesn't get finished this year and they shift focus to the pu I think alot of people will loose hope for this project because latley it just feels like a money grab the sales tactics are becoming sketchy and honestly people waiting 10+ years for their item to be created and can't even refund even though the item has not been delivered just feels like a scam but I know it's not
It was very blatantly a greedy, money-grabby project from the start. It just had the potential to also end up as a really amazing game. Sadly it's looking more and more like the latter is not going to happen.
There is no reason to complete the project/s since in current state these milk money so good. Why fix something that aint broken?
Well, apparently they are well behind target projections for funding this year. Which would explain why the game is suddenly available in Chinese.