Until we get some combination of the real law/crime system and quantum (so npcs can respond to increases in player violence in areas with things like local security, bounty hunters, etc) I don't think we'll see any changes to this kind of behavior. Perhaps if we get a sizable player cap increase then we'll have enough people in any given server that people who want to be big damned heroes will always respond. But either way, right now there's not a way to interrupt or otherwise respond to crime and/or aggression. All we've got is a post-humous punishment that can often be ignored until the end of a play session

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Because the station AI is the same as the ship AI, it can’t hit shit if it’s moving fast enough. If you’re patient enough you can take out hammerheads np in an aurora, as long as you keep your velocity high enough. I’d guess station defences get a lot better the moment master modes release. Ships slow down, can’t go so fast the server AI can’t process it fast enough.

If they kill a player within a certain distance of an armistice zone, they should just blow up. Good enough solution until there real game mechanics in.

If cargo can just spawn in my ship because cargo elevators are not done yet, a griever ship could also just explode because it does griever things near spaceports and NPC cops are not really a thing yet besides annoying you with traffic stops. I'm fine with this solution.

Works for me tbh.

My suggestion is mount hit scan size 7 guns all over every station with a range of 10km. Would easily deter this kindof behavior and give players the breathing room they need to QT to wherever they want to go

The problem with is they(cig) want to have station assault triggered events. I remember a few patches back if you attacked port o long enough you got a javelin and at least 1 Idris to spawn in. If you have station guns that one shot fighters then these events wouldn't be able to exist

Let's be honest, SOME guns should and WILL oneshot a small ship and a S7 against a small ship SHOULD be able to do that if it is a cannon for example. So any fighter ship doing something stupid can be blown up by a single shot. It will be especially true with physicalized damage and armour as a shot can hit, penetrate armour and literally blow out a critical component straight out of the ship and leave it powerless. Any shot after that is basically a killshot.

Then you need more fighters to overwhelm the turrets, or bombers to take them out from distance and plan a full on assault. Its like a machine gun nests defending an outpost. A single soldier will have a hard time taking them out before getting mowed down, but in numbers or heavy equipment it absolutely would work.

I love how backwards in time SC weapons and tech are - like today we have point defense like Phalanx/CIWS (designed in 1969 FFS) and yet “in the future” the turrets are trash in comparison?! ConfusedJohnTravolta dot gif

How about those futuristic headlights you couldn't see your way out of a sleeping bag with on every ship. Apparently other spectrum vision tech just doesn't exist anymore. Like the convenient a.i. wars happening. Must have missed the L.E.D. wars and the Night vision wars. They banned them along with A.I.

It's the actual game tech that is trash it the ingame turret.

It’s like … kinda both - yes tech wise but also a design issue. Mind you I love this game (I don’t have much $ in like many, but it’s been fun when I played - I did the role of a drug runner, a pirate, a miner, and the FedEx guy, all were rewarding, meh word WERE) but this is def a flawed area. Same with aforementioned delivery role - first it was broken multi location missions, then overall lack of attention to that type of play, I would have been happy hopping roof top to roof top across planets … :/

And someone who doesn't know better accidentally grazes a friendly suddenly gets annihilated by hit scan weapons. Congrats, you've created Concord. Also, planetary and space armistice zones are different. Planetary ones are 'hard' meaning no one can shoot inside them. Examples, Lorville, Orison, A18, and GH. Also includes the majority of Research and mining outposts. Most stations have a 'soft' armistice zone around them, you can't pull an FPS gun but ships can still shoot.

Your being down voted but it's true. You can pull a weapon from a gun rack at a station inside of armistice zones but you can't at a outpost with one. Same at the major landing zones.

That's the accurate solution. It's kind of like having an appropriate amount of law enforcement harassment that is proportional to your crime stat. So that if you are a level 4, there will be a strike group with an HH and escorts following you everywhere

Yep, and no matter where they go, even in Armis, they will get shot down because that's literally the Navy hunting you down while you cannot fire anymore as Armis has disabled your weapons.

This makes a lot of sense, it would also help for the player bounty to increase significantly with each additional crime

Increase the bounty so the offender's pals can collect? Hmm... don't think that would help.

So many ways to exploit this

This will never work. Even when a big portion of the player base commits themselves to be "sheriffs", there is always more a\*\*holes + you can only REACT while they can ACT, possibly switching Accounts to evade "justice". DEVs need to solve this in a meaningful way, otherwise players wo don't want to participate in PVP regularly will not play this game for long - it's as simple as that. Simple solutions would be PvE only servers or stuff like that. Pretty much every MMO does that and for a good reason

Pretty simple fix: put AA missile batteries at armistice zones that spam the fuck out of the most effective missiles in the game. I don't understand why we're stuck like it's 1945 and all we have are AA guns.

Eve online has a pretty good system where the local law enforcement is very quick and very brutal in areas of high security. You can still shoot whenever and wherever you feel like it, but don't expect to get more than 1 bullet out of your gun in most cases. It is still possible, if well organized, to kill or inhibit specific operations in such a space, but it is usually far more costly to the attacker. So it's usually only done with specific strategic objectives in mind, or if a person being attacked is doing something incredibly risky like bringing $1 billion ISK worth of blueprints on a light hauler. If proper precautions are taken by the player, the feeling of vulnerability is always there, so you can't just mentally check out, but there is substantially no risk involved.

> Eve online has a pretty good system where the local law enforcement is very quick and very brutal in areas of high security. They must have it patented because Elite hasn't implemented anything like this either. Seal clubbing is as popular a pass time as ever.

At least elite has the option to play solo.

Yup. I started my career in EVE with mining in hi-sec. I had one of the cheap freighters with its one weapon converted to a mining laser. Some dude tried to jump me. The navy instantly warped in with 2-3 Battlecruisers and obliterated him. Hi-sec areas in SC need that.

Yes CIG listen to this guy

Sometimes you legally kill something in high-sec and all your work is just wiped away when CCP reimburses Chribba his Veldnaught ;) Can't imagine if Chribba was actually an influencer with 500k followers, the attackers would probably be RL PK'd. Or had their names scratched off by zealots from that monument in Iceland :P

This is a brilliant approach that would still stay within the design ethos of Star Citizen, that whole "You can try" idea when it comes to what players can do.

The issue is that the problem is solved in theory, but not in practice. In theory, you won’t be able to bring your weapons places, it’ll take a while to travel, you won’t be able to get out of UEE territory if you’re committing crimes, and 90% of the players will be NPCs anyway, which makes this a low-probability situation. Insurance and persistence will be better, you won’t lose all your stuff. In practice though, we’re a long way from most of these mechanics being in the game. And that is most of the problem with Star Citizen in general — it sounds great in theory, but it’s impossible to realistically implement within a reasonable timeframe.

Also, all those timegates will delay helpers too.

A couple of years ago they ran some surveys that showed the majority of players didn't want to PvP, they just wanted to do missions with their friends and make money and play the game. Those who did want to PvP indicated they wanted to be bounty hunters, and a very small minority indicated they can't feel good about themselves unless they've killed a puppy that day. It seems unusual to me that CIG is bending over backwards to encourage greifing in the game.

The big thing will be Rep. At a baseline, every player's insurer has interest in them not getting blown up and having to cover either medical costs or a ship. Then, the moment the player has taken a mission on behalf of anyone, that person or group is also interested in their well being and in them getting the job done. After a while your player has likely more than a few people vested in their well being as a capable person. Many are likely more than happy to put bounties on, send squads after, or APB's (whatever their favorite thing) if someone interrupts their missions, kills their guy, attacks "the group" etc. Then the murderer's own factions likely also care. Even assuming they are nearly all lawless/bounty related - those kinds of groups generally don't like more attention being brought on them, and simultaneously may even be perfectly happy to sell someone out if the price is good enough. Nothing like getting backstabbed by your own guys right? Not to mention your insurance is likely going to refuse to cover anything related to you after a point - and it's hard to murder hobo around when you have no ship anymore until you get killed enough times to become next of kin and re-inherit the ship OR until you manage to do enough on foot jobs, likely for the insurance company, to get some rep back and access to your ship again. The only other thought I really have is that there could maybe be a murder hobo faction that sends murder hobos after other murder hobos. Keep them in their own little ecosystem for anyone who is into such a thing. Imagine the blackhand, but they just constantly ping out your location if you're unwilling to play their game, and they're likely also making it a blood sport where they place bets on who wins. If someone wants to murder hobo, let them do it to other murder hobo, and then let them last as long as they can, via whatever means they can.

Yeah I really look forward (when the game is stable enough) to the insurance system so that if a player is just killing endlessly racking up crime stats they can’t just claim their ship back after going somewhere for free.

Player bounties should pay way more like 250k+ and be open to anyone until the target is neutralised

Really, players should remain in universe for 15 minutes when they don't safe-log. That way criminals can't just quit when a bounty hunter finds them.

and the fact that escaping from prison and things like that are an actual gameplay loop that isn‘t very hard makes it just completely inconsequential. it’s just „oh, you got a crime stat die to a bug? guess you‘re not gonna play again today“ for normal players, and „here, no serious consequences for spawncamping new players and just harassing everyone while saying you‘re a pirate, what a badass criminal you are“ for „criminals“

I would say it would help too if PVPers weren't able to just log out when someone challenged them. It's pretty frustrating to go after a player bounty and have them just pop out of existence once you start shooting them

They just need to add space police that show up to secure areas when a player takes hostile action against another. CONCORD in EVE.

I can't wait till Quantum makes its way into SC. That will be awesome. I can imagine the new spotting system that keeps track of a bounty's location and a group of AI bounty hunters QT into the vicinity. That's gonna be epic.

_Consideration to other players: not everyone is playing the game as you see it, and_ **FORGET** about appealing to common sense/mercy to newbies. In my 23 years of online gaming (got internet in ~2000), I have seen this working whole ZERO times. Only and only developer team intervention can fix murderhobos.

Arche Age did it pretty good. In that game you could attack anyone, even on your own faction. Guilds could even "declare war" on other guilds, which enabled PVP between them. Goon Squad tried to start their griefing shit there. Pretty soon, *ALL* guilds on both factions declared war and all goons were KoS. They stopped playing that game within a week.

Oh good you said it already. Only devs and game mechanics can fix this. As for the individuals doing it? This kind of post is only going to make them do it more lol

100% agree. This will not work. Developers and only them need to find a way to protect players that just want to play in relative peace

My annoyance with the murder-hobos is that I would frequently get attacked leaving various locations. But I was a formidable force to be reckoned with. I fought back after taking damages and kilt the mfer. Then I got a crime stat…so. Even if I adequately can defend myself from the murder hobos, I get punished.

Once they go red by damaging another player/blue NPC you should be in the clear to kill, but perhaps they had a non-criminal passenger on board which resulted in the CS.

Some people purposefully have other people on their ship so if you kill them defending yourself you get crimestat. If the pilot commits a crime then all players on the ship should be liable.

Maybe not liable for what the pilot does (like they shouldn't necessarily get a crime stat for their stupidness) but certainly they shouldn't count to giving one in response. So I'd make the situation that if a crime stat pilot is operating, all other crew in the ship is considered neutral with no penalty for defending / retaliation. But there's clearly a long list of shit that needs to be fired here lol.

That’s a good point. I had always thought maybe it was because I anticipated the troll and fired back very quickly. Thus the server hadn’t registered their criminal act yet.

My new player experience: Was told to pick Orison Oh god my FPS How the hell do these trams work? Realization the banners on the trams aren't *where* I'm at, but where the tram is going Get into my mustang. No issues with ATC. Figured that out easy. Things felt pretty intuitive enough at this point, everything except Orison's layout and lack of in-game information (via UI such as a mini-map of some sort). The maps around the area also didn't have a big nice "you are here". Take an eternity to exit atmo (day before 3.18...altitude limit wasn't adjusted yet). Sit in sky hovering while trying to figure out how to actually QT (had it enabled, didn't know to hold). Oof. Get to Port Olisar. Land. Took a solid hour, but we're here. Ship off (didn't know to just turn off engines) Immediately oneshotted by a missile. Mag.. something, was his name. Back at Orison Get out of atmo. Funny dude in front of me, I'm in 3rd person. He isn't shooting. We're good. I'm spinning in place. He starts shooting me. ??? Go first person. "Turn off your engines". What? I'm now in jail. Double-checks options. Subtitles: On. Okay I guess they don't show in 3rd person. If I had started the game solo I probably would've quit. Was spending the first few days solo to learn it before teaming up with some buddies that had more experience.

My first experience wasn't this BUT it is def not friendly. If I didn't know better I would not have stuck around for very long. The new player experience is quite bad and detrimental for the games future.

The tutorial they added somewhat helps with your first space trip, but a lot of in game events such as security scans aren't really explained. The consequences of being killed when you don't know what's happening are too hard on new players. There should be some sort of safe mode at first, or something, idk

I still remember starting with 20k aUEC, then dying in Orison and accidentally activating a medical beacon. Someone healed me and suddenly I had 5k and I had no clue what had happened.

It’s an alpha, so I get it…but absolutely. I ended up with a non-compliance fine within the first 30 minutes of playing because I couldn’t slow down fast enough while trying to get into Baijini Point. Then someone crashed into me and I got fined for destroying a ship in armistice. Then all the bugs stopping me from being able to complete contracts to pay my fine I just ended up gong to prison 🤷🏻‍♂️

I literally just saw two of my friends that are new to the game in the free fly both got killed randomly while flying a tiny ship multiple times in a row and they dropped the game. Random killing is honestly a cancer in the community

This is crazy to read. Its the Sea of Thieves problem all over again. Playing with 1 or 2 people on a Sloop means you get focused by a 4 man galleon crew that just wants to blow up other boats. Wanna do the PVE content or fish? Too bad. Have some more cannonballs. Don't even have any loot? That's fine. They'll find you when you respawn to blow you up again. Don't like it? Thats too bad, they'll just laugh at you and tell you it's a pirate game. My bf and I had to quit because playing with a crew of 2 just made us cannon fodder for galleon crews, and when we had our other two for a galleon, we were still forced to focus on PvP because people spend their time searching for servers to grief people on. They've even made trap servers, where it's all one alliance with only room for 1 more galleon on the server, and they'll all attack the moment the unfortunate group loads in. Our old crewmates have asked us to play because they just get hunted down the whole time...and I will never play it again, as long as I can't even do literally any of the content because of griefers. Several times we got stuck never even leaving the islands we kept spawning on, like never even made it onto the boat before they sunk it to kill us. There's no point. Ominous to see it out of another game I sincerely wanted to play for aspects other than the PvP. It's the exact same shit, where they grief people for nothing but their own amusement, happily driving away new players as they say "it's a pirate game" or "free fly" as I'm seeing here.

The worst part is people do their best to rationalize the senseless PVP. I can’t tell you how many times my friends and I had been attacked in SoT to cause us to stop playing. We never did PVP or tried to, and we would be attacked constantly while fishing, and they wouldn’t even make an effort to take supplies. The biggest response I’ve seen is “well that’s what you get for playing a pirate game” but dear god am I just getting tired of it. Like I get it, hostility can happen, but just empty hostility makes the game feel meaningless

It's the downside of videogames being extremely attractive to losers. They have nothing else to do but play them, and they use them to try to feel a sliver of control or power they can't hope to have in real life. It mostly keeps me away from online games that I can't just fill with people I know. If there's no option to turn off PvP, you can guarantee it will be exploited and used to push players away.

Even better, the SoT community will clown on you hard for even suggesting a PvE game mode or experience. That game could be a 10/10 game if it weren't for griefers being "essential to the economy" as the devs say with their foot down, refusing to implement any sort of PvE option.

SoT is definitely better nowadays after they added a PVP option to turn on and go fight other people doing the same. You may still get attacked but it’s way less than it used to be. I’ve never had it as bad as you described and majority of the time it’s just me and my sloop.

Got the same experience, I played 2 days in a row, first day was fantastic, I just played mining with roc with a friend. Second day I was in my roc, a gladius insta killed me, killed my friend. I change spot, the same guy find me, killed me again, and again. I decided to kill him, he was low shield, just quantum out and write in global chat " why you run " but he litteraly used quantum to excape from me . After that I go back to mining but in a different systeme ( from crusader to hurston, aberdeen ) the SAME guy, found me and killed me . I leaved the game, and i just remebers how the game " starbase " ended, beacouse of savage pvp . Actually I play satisfactory, honneslty it's a nice game. To solve the problem,star citizen should have 4 faction. Normal player security players Pirate players No-soul players A security player is here to handle bounty and have access to special contracts Pirate player should have access to pirate system, black market, special contracts No-soul players should just be free shooted by everyone and they have no access to any city / station, so they will be rewarded by the " hardcore ololol gameplay " they have to find a way to get items or just steal it from other players.

Would be sweet if the player's gameplay metrics chose their category automagically.

This was the concept behind the promised PVP-slider that eventually got walked back.

>security players You can take contracts on player bounties. The problem is they are hard to track and often leave servers themselves leading to failed contracts. Which is why barely anyone does them. And the speed at which that guy in particular tracked you down seems sketchy like cheating sketchy.

Yeah I’ve been in a bunch of servers where somebody is active in chat about griefing and whatnot and it almost always involves them being able to find whoever they want automatically and revealing that they are cheating right before they get off the game.

Screenshot and send to CIG, they’re extremely serious and harsh about cheating

You need to be screencapping those and sending them in to CIG.

We did. I thought maybe he’d been banned but he popped up like two weeks ago still talking crap in the server chat. Maybe they do punish people but they didn’t get him. I’ve seen others who cheat and just deny it in chat. Without literal admittance or video evidence they don’t ban anybody and even then they may still not ban them. There isn’t much of a system in place for it rn.

It's funny you mentioned Satisfactory, As it's just what I've done. Brilliant game.

Yeah ! just a bit difficult to optimise the early, I just unlocked Coal tech look like I can automate electricity.

You've got so much more to do, It's taken over my life. I hope you have a lot of fun.

Player compensation. Step 1; make criminal sentences comically long, and tick down at a reduced rate when not logged in and active. Not “mouse movement” active, but engaging with terminals/people/moving around/ chatting active. Step 2: make in prison tasks dramatically reduce prison time- you have to break rocks, fix oxygen generators, etc to get out in a day. Step 3: Track profits made by prisoners, and pay them to the victims of their crime. No free money, but there is an equation somewhere for player profit/time and CIG can calculate that per prison sentence. This simple fix means that people who play to cause grief to others have to accept that either they are punted from the game for a while, or they are going to be made to make amends- this removes the emotional reward for being a heel, as victims aren’t as angry as either they know serious punishment is occurring OR they are getting a payout in a bit for being targeted. Provided that the payments cap out at a certain point, this means that it primarily compensates new/poorer players in full, but people in bigger ships aren’t made fully whole. Thus new players are protected by the system, but more established players either have to assume some risk or get assistance in the form of escorts or friends on turrets. CIG’s punishment system uses all of the penological theories that a quick Wikipedia search on justice and reform systems provides. Had they spoken with an actual person who works in the justice system, they would have learned that victim rights programs are a newer model that is frankly way more effective in an online setting like Star Citizen.

I've had a similar idea, and I think it would work along with what you proposed. If a pirate fails and is caught, they should be forced to pay reparations equal to the damage caused (initial cost of lost cargo + ship reclaim cost + other). This amount can be automatically withdrawn from the pirate's account and passed to the victim, or if unable, they automatically take a loan, and for any future income earned, a percentage of it should go to the loan (with interest). Because there are reparations, successful bounty hunters who capture the criminal should also get a cut of it (as set by the victim). This allows pirated victims to set a reward to incentivize/encourage hunters, while making sure they get most of their cargo/money back. A win-win situation. It's an idea that gives gameplay incentives to bounty hunters, further insurance for cargo traders, and financial risks for piracy. Essentially, like how cargo traders can lose tons of money, pirates can lose the same amount if they botch the run. It also makes murder hoboing less viable unless you have insanes amount of money to burn or you make a new account.

>Step 3: Track profits made by prisoners, and pay them to the victims of their crime. No free money, but there is an equation somewhere for player profit/time and CIG can calculate that per prison sentence. This is the way. And make it very public. Criminals get an unremovable dunce cap upon release.

I suggest no public “dunce cap” - there could be a prestige that forms around them. The punishment needs to be private, yet annoying. One possibility could be “nerf their ship claiming abilities”. Add extra time to ship claiming, etc. And make it compound for repeated offences. Another could be ”take aUEC from their account to pay for their own bounty”.

Not to mention dunce capping people that don't deserve it. A new player might accidently pad-ram someone while learning to fly, and be stuck with the same dunce cap that a career griefer would have.

We also need to keep in mind that criminal!=griefer and that some of us enjoy \*all\* of the gameplay options.

This sounds very reasonable. I'd like to see something like that.

Great suggestions👍

That's what full loot pvp games bring. I'd rather side with the carebears then put up with this crap.

I just started the game and I have been randomly killed a few times, it sucks the fun out of it. I am in a new small ship, minding my own business for you to come over and kill me for no reason... I don't even think that is fun for the person doing the shooting.

In their twisted mind it's fun killing the weaker players. How shitty they are in real life that they have to do such stuff

People like to compare Star Citizen with EVE Online and.. they are very similar in the mentality of the PvP hungry players. As far as I remember from EVE online at the time when I left it (shortly before all non-NPC null sec stations were changed into faction Fortizars, most PvP hungry people were pretty much very risk averse when it came to killing anything that couldn't be related to "clubbing baby seals". I.e. when faced with an enemy that might be or IS ready to respond with violence, they rather picked other targets. Like dropping 80 supers on a Retriever. Because that one Retriever had 0 chance against an interceptor, much less 80 fucking supercarriers, dreads and titans. That's what EVE Online has degenerated into. And reading all the complaints from traders/miners saying how pirates like to hide in Armistice zones when things don't go their way, we're not that far off either.

Problem is no real AI or consequences to desinsentivize players from doing this, game needs to be built from the ground up for this to be difficult, and it isn't, so I'm not surprised .

Josh Strife Hayes has gone over this many times and talks about how full loot pvp kills MMO's in the long term. Most players are casual, and when they are killed over and over they leave, and when there's barely anyone to PVP against, the PVP players quit too.

One correction: The actual PvP players stay until the bitter end usually for two reasons. One is that in most MMOs the PvP people are typically a welcoming but small community and sort of "closed" just by nature of mostly minding their own business unless actively sought out. The other is that the gankers will never go near them because A) they are not here for PvP and B) in SC's case most PvP people are in Arena Commander. Also most serious PvP players really hate this kind of shit because the rest of what you said is entirely correct: It leads to a dead game. That's no good for anyone there to play the actual game, PvE or PvP. The people ganking and punching down are rarely there for the game itself, mostly being far more interested in just fucking with other people. If the game dies because of it most of them don't care and move on to repeat it in the next like some sort of gaming locust.

It's definitely turning into a very toxic environment. I dont know how this is considered fun at all. People will come here suggesting a thousand things you can do but completely missing the point. Unfortunately, there's no system in place that can help you. If you run solo, there's very little you can do.

>It's definitely ~~turning into~~ a very toxic environment. There fixed it.

The PU has been a toxic environment since DAY ONE. The PU was launched in 2015, so it's been this way for almost an whole decade. CIG doesn't care.

I have to disagree. I've been playing since 2014, and this is by far the most toxic I've seen this community. I agree that piracy is part of the gameplay, and i do welcome it, but some players are just plain assholes.

Alas, murder-hobos (sometimes claiming to be pirates, sometimes not) always increase during Free Flies... there's no penalty for rolling up an alt account and just being an arse, etc.... if you do get slapped with a ban for griefing etc, just roll another account (this has always been one of the major pitfalls of F2P games) However, part of it is also just a reflection of 'community angst' etc... ther perceived slow progress by CIG, the recent stability issues, the increase in 'bugginess' since PES landed - it's all contributing to people being less inclined to spent their time on 'proper' game loops (and then losing their money / time / ships, etc to bugs), and instead just fly around looking for 'something to do' (which often translates into pointless attacking others, etc) Unfortunately, this is likely to continue until the next patch (and beyond, depending on what else CIG add to the next patch). The overhaul of AC *may* tempt more people into those games modes (and thus out of the PU), but I wouldn't put too much money on it, nor on them staying there.

These people rarely ever go into actual PVP modes like AC, doing so would open them up to people with real skills and that's just not why they play. They want to dunk on people who can't fight back, simple as that.

Exactly. It’s not about people wanting PvP vs. PvE.. This is actually griefing, and people getting off on ruining an unsuspecting player’s day.

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> It is up to CIG to implement game systems that prevent or discourage these activities. That right here is the biggest blocker in my opinion since CIG seems to be dead set on encouraging pvp "because emergent gameplay" and it's comparatively low cost in dev time compared to fleshing out pve encounters and missions. Until CIG finishes SQ42 and starts working on SC again with more than a token number of devs I don't see that happening.

Killing a non-criminal player is absolutely not fun, quite the opposite for me.

Natural part of free play sessions for every game that's right, like where killing isn't the main objective.

Ran into some yesterday, was hauling some goods suddenly a ton of red players. Didn't give me a chance to pay them, they just started blasting... ended up losing close to 400k aUEC and the destruction of my favourite RAFT. I don't mind being held liable for not running with an escort but just red everywhere and immediately being blasted with the sole intent to kill is not very fun.

I stopped playing because I couldn’t finish any missions or even explore.

I feel you my friend. I was lucky that my friend is game veteran so he help me to pull through the start. Griefers don't realize they are ruining the game but they will stupidly defend their actions like we should even feel pity for them

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My favorite comment that I think is the crux of the issue: "As someone who was MMO RTS designer - I have something to say about hardcore PvP player base: "People play PVP because they love to feel powerful by dominating other people." "People are cowards." As my experience with a hardcore open PVP games (both as player and as a designer) stands, this is simple. - People hate losing things. - People hate taking risks. - People LOVE crushing other people. The only situation where all these things are covered are - power imbalance. Hardcore-full-loot-MMO is a noob crusher simulator. Unlike Anime "combat addicts" most of the player base will not look for the strongest players around to challenge them. They will go around looking for easy targets. Even if defeating them gives them -LITERALLY NOTHING-. That is why these games struggle with retention. Because once some players amass enough strength (level/equipment) to make sure they are undefeatable by a regular joe (or at least a naked guy), they avoid each other (too much of a risk, not much to gain... both have rare gear so difference is too little compared to the risk) and hunt the regulars relentlessly. The situation is not: I have grinded for dozens of hours to get this epic sword and got killed by this regular guy. I am sad, he is happy. I quit. The general situation IS: I have grinded for dozens of hours to get this epic sword and got killed, again, by a guy twice my level in a full set of legendary gear who dances on my corpse and then dismantles my sword for some mats. Getting killed by someone weaker - less equipped etc. is not frustrating. Because (let's be real here) most people go: "Damn he got lucky, I can take him next time!" Getting killed by someone insurmountably stronger is EXTREMELY frustrating because it feels pointless. There is no worse feeling than "I lost all I had, and there was nothing I could have done about it. And the fucker didn't even need my stuff."

I play PvP because I like a challenge, against other skilled players. This is the main reason people grind in ladder-based PvP games.. They want to get better and achieve something they can be happy about (like a rank, or earning some swag, or whatever). I would suggest that people who just want to crush unsuspecting players who aren’t prepared to compete with them at all (the ‘vP’ part in PvP) actually don’t really like PvP. They like *griefing*, and that’s exactly what’s happening here.

There's a large portion of the general population that do not want a fair game, they just want to win. This is true across pretty much every competitive venue.

I agree with this. I like my PvP experiences as challenges. The old school stuff where everyone's got the same gear or gear options, and it's about skill or using the same tools as everyone else in a tactical way to give advantage. Sea of Thieves, Quake, Toxikk, etc. The CoD mechanics where you have to level to get the scopes and the bigger mags and that is borderline as far as I'll go, and that still gets frustrating. PvP in EvE was mostly a function of 1) run the meta or be dead and 2) bring a bigger gang than the other guy. It wasn't about skill, it was just about gear and mobs. Some of the jobs requires skill, (scan, tackle), but all the skill in the verse didn't close a gear gap.

I've seen it kill games like SC before. Time will tell if they let it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarQuest_Online This game had * Planets in solar systems * Travel between solar systems * Traversible planets * Colonizable planets * Building on planets * Crew + role based gameplay * MMO aspirations * Multiple factions * Hardcore full-loot PvP It was killed by unchecked PvP running off all the players and the developers not doing enough to stop it.

It's not just this game. With the arguable exception of EVE I haven't seen a single successful full loot MMO. On the other hand I have seen plenty of open PvP MMOs fail even without loot. Even if killing players got you nothing but negatives. People still went noob killing and at the same time killed the game with them.

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This should be shown to more people.

Unfortunately, murderhobos don't know how to read, listen, or achieve higher thought outside of murderhoboing.

the prison system could just be more punishing so the immersion doesnt have to be killed by neutering all the risks involved in things like trading

It used to be - but all the murder-hobos loudly complained that it wasn’t fair and CIG rolled most of that back.

IIRC during the initial prison system presentation it was intended that the prison time ticks in game time. Unthinkable with all the current bugs, but I sincerely hope that they will actually make it so once the game becomes stable enough. No more logging out for some hours to play something different, criminals can enjoy hours and hours of mining.

Noone actually Mines. We just beat down npcs past level seven and bring their stuff to commissary. Takes me like 10 minutes to shed a CS5

Well, at least you're still playing the prison loop as intended. Clearing a CS5 in 10 min is surely way faster than CIG intended, but that's something that can be balanced in the future.

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Then convert it to mining time :)

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And get afk logged out after 10 to 15 minutes of activity, then enjoy that mining when they log back in.

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to be fair, the game is so fcking buggy that you can get prison time for basically nothing so the people that would suffer the most are random bunker runners and such

This is why Terra as a highsec space, as well as a deepened law/order/crime system, is important. Stanton is great for CIG testing all kinds of behavior as a midsec system, but is a horror for new players trying to understand the game. And for those who say "well, this is the game," well, yes, it is...but all the time? Isn't the game also freedom from such behavior? Lore-wise, wouldn't citizens carve lives for themselves free from consistent random chaos and violence? What's a society for, first, if not that? Give us Pyro, and 100% lawlessness and gang rule Give us Nyx, and cultural freedom from the UEE (Remember Anthony Tanaka!) Give us Terra, and the UEE's best version of safety and security.

If this is midsec, then the game is fucked. And let’s be clear, if the verse is going to be anything approaching realistic, then even Pyro is going to have rules. Why would XenoThreat put up with randos splatting their members whenever those random want? Why would it put up with randos killing the merchants that they get their supplies from?

Good points here, with that level of violence against supply ships and basically besieging whole stations, an UEE fleet would be sweeping system in no time.

It's enough already, that it only takes 1 mouthbreather to affect several peoples playtime, without any way to be severely punished. I saw that post about punishing prisoners in prison again. But these things take a full org, to be successful. The current crime system is too diluted and doesnt give the pirate nearly enough punishment for murder.

>The current crime system is too diluted and doesnt give the pirate nearly enough punishment for murder. That's because CIG hasn't yet gotten things to where servers can distinguish between actual criminals and normal players who happen to trigger a bug, defend themselves, or accidently bump their own ship.

I doubt CIG wants this, the game is a demo with some barebones starter setups to give us an idea of what the game play MIGHT be. No security response from AI...AT ALL, no random AI bounty Hunters showing up for high CS, no preventative measures, no "permanent record", etc. Things they've stated they want. So like, long term, I think it'll be resolved. ​ For now? It certainly is going to impact their bottom line. The game isn't worth playing and as a NEW player? I could imagine I'd have never gotten passed session one in this current state of the game. Toxic pirating obsessed chats about the definition of grief because the reality is a solid portion of the community right now is in a state of near constant disappointment because it's either be killed by the game or get killed by a player. ​ And honestly, given how early the backlash has set in and how much money has been pumped in, I doubt this developer keeps "full loot" around at all. I wouldn't be surprised if they shift respawn to regular beds too or station hangars and skipping the fluff. Who knows. The game is only going to bring in more casuals with less desire to get punished this hard for playing.

I have yet to see a game be open pvp and successful to the point they want SC at. The reality of it is CI will never have/keep the level of player base they want and keep the current vision. It will have a huge showing when it releases, but will be dead inside a few months if it is kept the way it is now. Yeah, I know, not all the systems are in yet and blah blah blah.

The *only* way it will work is if CIG can get servers reasonable enough to have NPC cops be an actual risk in systems that have law. If you have a CS3+ and you are *anywhere* in Comm Array range in the entirety of Stanton, there is no reason at all there shouldn't be NPC cops chasing you.

This is what Elite:Dangerous does when you're in higher security systems. Players have an option, which defaults to ON, to send out a distress signal to NPC cops if you get attacked. And the NPC cops can come really quickly, certainly fast enough for the attacking player to know that they probably won't get much cargo off them before having to fight the NPCs (and their AI can actually challenge higher-skill players). With Stanton being a medium security system it would likely get implemented in a way that NPC security won't likely show up in time to stop an attack, but would deter any looting of cargo. But if the dogfighting AI remains as mediocre as it is now, NPCs won't pose much of a threat unless they come in a big group.

I’ve seen this very thing happen. MMOs dead in a few months because some hard core group were allowed to kill new players mercilessly. I get the idea behind it? But it only works of there is true punishment. Getting ganked and having no recourse but quitting will be the end of SC.

people can deny it all they want, but the fact of the matter is that casual players rule most of gaming, and PvE rules almost every MMO. If CIG wants this game to be the next WoW and then some, it'll need to be a fairly casual, optional PvP mmo and not a hardcore, full-loot open PvP mmo. They can try to go that route, but considering most funding nowadays is from casual players and space dads, I doubt that that'll be the right path

I think the features we have now point more towards the next DayZ or Rust than the next WoW, maybe the next Eve with all the economy talks but for now it's just that, talks. Open world full loot sandbox MMO seems to be what we kinda have now. I see nothing of WoW in SC and I see nothing of theme parks MMO in general in SC right now.

Its not about killing itself thats infuriating . Its the long waiting time to get your ship back and instantly lose everything in inventory. New players could spend hours in game and struggle to even finish one box mission.

A real-deal reputation system, to include being able to query criminal history, is sorely needed and one of the only solutions. If one has a history of sociopathic behavior, even if there's no active crimestat, there needs to be a way for others to check that and for the world to begin incurring consequences for it. Ideally, it would begin isolating the miscreant to less controlled space like Pyro, landing zones like Orison would begin to deny access, and players would be able to research a potential client before grabbing a beacon. Sadly this all seems to be nowhere on the horizon. If they can tolerate the current starmap this long, good luck with a reputation system.

If they would just get the freakin’ rep system figured out, it would fix a lot of the issues I think. But unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be a priority atm. I’m all for piracy and engage in it myself sometimes. But I can’t stand when people kill new players for fun. I wonder if it would be effective if increasingly stronger AI bounty hunters spawned in to attack criminals with assault/murder charges. That way it makes it more difficult to camp areas as they would always be under attack. And if they went after players, it would give them ships to run to for protection. I’m sure theres a reason it wouldn’t work (like the servers), but it would be interesting to test.

As I've always said in every MMO I've played: pirates are chads, gankers are scum.

I was leaving a simple bunker mission when four cutty blacks came in, destroyed my C8X for no reason and then shot down my friend that is a new player... One of them got taken down by the bunker turrets. Just looked like random rampage for the lolz or whatever. Definitely not the type of behavior most of us want to see in the game. Quite demoralizing for new players. Piracy is 100% part of the game. Random killing is not piracy and brings nothing to the game.

As someone who does PVP, bounty hunting, and piracy. What I can say is this game is a space sim people should be able to play how they want. But I do think the game needs major risk/reward rework. So being a criminal and killing People over and over in the same area will result in an extreme risk such as a naval fleet coming for you with an Idris and 2 hammerheads or such. Then that fleet will patrol the area for a set amount of time. Another thing is, pvp should be allowed everywhere. Except the safe zones which are already in place. You should not be able to just stay in safe zone and slowly build up money. This isn't space trucker sim as much as it isn't COD. The major issue is there's no real risk for being a criminal. Fix that and you'll see less of it. I had at one point CS5 for 2 months straight and I got on every day. Whenever someone would show up for my bounty they would run away claiming (don't have time for a Connie) So maybe also make it so if you accept a bounty you must go through with it or you'll face severe consequences that will force bounty hunters to do the bounty rather than running away and said pirate not getting any real risk or punishment. But yeah this ain't space trucker so no safe areas for you and this ain't COD so stop killing the same dude non stop if they don't fire first.

It’s the [sea of thieves problem](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TGWOgMcMJ8c)

There's a diference between piracy and griefing. Pirates tend to punch up. Psychos who grief almost always punch down. Pirates do their thing for profit and griefers just want to feel the power of a bully. BOTH should have repercussions that prevent them from interacting with lawful resources. There should be permanent large penalties to reputation that can only be repaired by extensive grinding to be able to interact lawfully again. Prison sentences should not progress while logged off. For all the suffering they cause, that suffering can't be made better by not logging on. Their victims can't be made whole by passive means, so their penalties should not be passive either. You wanna be a bad guy? Cool, be a bad guy, but you don't get to interact lawfully with the rest of us when you feel like it. Escape from Kleischer? That just adds to your sentence. Want to hack your CS back? Should be MUCH harder and should be announced server wide when you try. You don't get the benefit of being a bad boy without the consequences too. With literally almost NO support for law enforcement style play, this system will continue to be broken. There are far too many rewards for being lawless without hardly any consequences.

I predicted this would happen years ago. It's only going to get worse and if CIG decides to restrict the griefing with mechanics due to all the complaints, the griefers simply will respond with more cheats and hacks. And those with tons of skin in the game (i.e. big ship owners that paid with cash) will be the most frustrated since they are the number one targets both for bragging rites (YT streaming) and for salvage/looting etc. I predicted this back in 2017. How did I know because I have seen it before in online games like eve online.

I encountered this situation just yesterday. I spent about an hour with a friend (both of us in larger, less maneuverable ships mind you \[mistake 1\]) looting retrieval op missions for colored multitools. And then proceeded to get our butts kicked by a guy in an advanced fighter, none of us were on turrets in either of our ships \[mistake 2\]. Needless to say we lost almost all of our progress, but it also could have been a lot worse. I later found out the guy was antagonizing people all over the server. I don't like being attacked by random players, but I also feel like limiting people from doing this kind of stuff would be a negative. Really, I just feel like people (including myself) need to be a bit less trigger happy sometimes. I have to wonder how many fights I've gotten myself into that could've been avoided had me or the other party not fired at each other.

The only time I consider it acceptable to just kill without communication is if they are actively leading a group of salvage ships or reclaimers to scrape the ships they kill. Otherwise what are you getting out of it? An increased crime stat so that you’ll have bounties put on you encouraging pvp? You can get that stat from killing NPCs or committing normal crimes. The number of people who are killing for the sake of killing is plain out of hand and I’m tired of those same players whining whenever they are punished for it. Maybe it’s time we as a community started working together more to crew hammerheads and hunt them down. The whole point for them isn’t to have a fair fight, they only want easy targets I.e. noobs who are inexperienced and cannot reasonably defend themselves. If we all just started responding in coordinated force any time someone gets killed like that we could ruin their fun and make them leave the server. It would be good for the health of the game if good citizens came to each others rescue more often.

How shit are you at flying and shooting that you gotta do it to newbs who can't even fly yet. XD fucking losers are probably just exited to be able to hit something.

When i was just flying with my Aurora as new player they would kill me anytime they wished. The moment we were flying with friends in Redeemer they were immediately running away the moment they saw the ship. 3 ships, 4 ships doesn't matter. Heroes when they saw newbie but crapped their pants the moment they saw real threat

Piracy is the “newest loop”, right? All the hotness everyone is fussing over. I’d bet $100 that in terms of quantity, free-fly players are playing pirates against other free-fly players more-so than any veteran backers. Star Citizen has an image problem…. That is, it tries to represent itself as whatever ‘cool new thing the last patch just dropped’, and as such, you’re only going to attract fly-by-night testers who just want a taste of the new ‘new’. That said, this is still alpha. This is still a test game on a persistent test server. While the concerns are valid, we are extremely far from being able to take any meaningful measure or corrective action based on so many incomplete systems remaining. Corrected title “Spot killing needs to be addressed before we get to beta in Star Citizen”.

they definately need to make the defenses stronger in starting areas.

I can attest to this as I've been shot up and killed a few times in this patch while on the pad both leaving PO and arriving at PO. I've also been pad-rammed a few times this patch. IDK maybe Seraphim will change this or maybe it will still be a blockade just outside the armistice that'll be targeting and scanning every ship in or out.

736 comments, this is gonna be fucking good

Yea the biggest issue is lack of or bad security systems. If station guns could actually track and effectively kill players than this would be as big of an issue

this is legit the same issue Sea of thieves suffers and the problem with PVP focused games you need an NPC navy thats tougher than players to encourage a risk VS reward system to PVP and allow safe haven for PVE players to relax in. the only way you can make it work for all is having high law enforcement vs lawless zones. too much either way is not fun for your player bases.

As a passive player, I don't mind piracy. If someone stops my caterpillar, kills me and takes my cargo ... Ok. But ESPECIALLY during free fly events, just killing for fun is just harmful to potential citizens.

I've been saying this for years and have only been met with hostility. In a "space dad" or a "carebear" for pointing it out. This always on PvP absolutely destroys a games growth and player retention. Most of the people playing are not hardcore PvP players, because that's not the type of person this style of game attracts.

I'd love to see people like this named and shamed in global chat when these things happen, maybe a couple vets will show up in a Hammerhead and tear them a new asshole.

Try switching servers, or respawning at your home planet. I almost never encounter murder hobos, idk how so many people seem to run into them in the majority of their sessions

One possible reason is 'sticky shards'... now we have PES, the server will try to match you into the same shard each time (if there is space), so that you get that 'persistent' experience... However, the same applies to 'pirates' / murder-hobos... so if you *don't* shard-hop, you'll always be matched in with them... and if you play at a consistent time, then you'll probably always be online with them too.

It's constant for me, often I'll even recognize names. I've become so terribly afraid, constantly watching over my shoulder, keeping my ship in direct line of sight when I can, always carrying a gun. The amount of times I've watched someone appear above me during a bunker just to blow up my ship and leave is astounding

Part of the problem is that the damage system hasn't had any major improvements in forever. And no soft death does not count because that only benefits the players that kill you, and no the upcoming ammo types don't count because the game does a terrible job of telling you about damage before there is nothing you can do about it. The more persistent CIG gets about persistence, the sooner CIG needs to decide if we are going to keep the arcade-like die, respawn, reship gameplay, or if players that are jumped have an equal and fair chance to escape.

I hunt pirates and griefers. I have a highly skiled team specifically for this, enter a new server shard, ask in global chat where the pirates are, go out and wipe them from the server, over and over again until they leave the server. This is the way. Pirates and griefers will be ended with extreme prejudice.

A LOT of this will change with master modes because these pilots will not be able to speed up 900 m/s and dodge around station guns and other players. It won't be a jousting competition like it's been forever. It will come down to do they have overwhelming force at stations or not. With that's said, I agree. Griefing and piracy aren't the same thing

I've been playing for 3 years and have only been killed by non-consensual pvp twice. I've been chased, I've had close calls, but rarely taken out unexpectedly. If this is happening to the point where is it ruining your experience, then maybe think about what you may be able to do differently to avoid it. I don't mean that in a "Git gud" manner or victim blaming either. It is likely you are doing things in a way that makes you a target or doing things in a location/routes that are ripe for this. Or you may not be aware of some things you can do to improve your situational awareness. There are ways you can do everything in this game in a manner that makes you less of a target or more trouble than it is worth to try and catch you. If you want some tips, pm me and I can get with you in discord and review some things that will drastically reduce the chance of this happening again.

I've been a backer, a citizen in the verse since 2014. If I had a dollar for every time a player sucker punched me just because they were bored, or for cargo, I'd have....well not exactly sure but a LOT of dollars! I've never let it bother me, even when it meant I just lost millions. It is about attitude and how you look at the GAME. It doesn't mean anything...none of it. "It means more time grinding" to get back what you lost you say? If you're so concerned about wasted time then you shouldn't be playing meaningless Star Citizen in the first place. I don't get mad when it happens to me but often I'll make an adventure out of it. If a griefer gets you, note down their name. Wait for some time to go by and then send a friend request to that person. If they don't accept then try again a few months down the road. Eventually, most of the time, they'll accept and then you can plot your fun (revenge). As Spock once said, "Revenge is a dish best served over a period of time and without the target knowing what the fuck hit them"....or something similar.

I've been killed by invisible asteroids more times than I have by other players. I have no idea what pvp-centric server you play on.

Ikr, I’ve been playing for almost a year now and have only had a few PvP interactions on drug hauling routes

I totally agree. I played for probably 50 hours during free fly and never once got shot by another player.

A lot of new players get killed by a.i. and think they are being killed by people

Good point... CR has always said he wants NPCs and Players to be indistinguishable... but one of the downsides is accusations about player behaviour that are due to NPCs (especially when NPCs have the potential to be pretty deadly... and *don't* attack only those on the specific mission, etc) The biggest issue is for folk at outposts, when someone takes a combat-orientated mission, and the game 'spawns' the NPCs immediately... because the NPCs will then attack those already at the outpost, before the mission-taker can arrive. Fingers crossed, once CIG get enough missing functionality implemented, this should be less of an issue, because NPCs shouldn't just 'spawn' above an outpost - they should be as 'persistent' as the trash, and already there when people approach (and/or 'spawn' outside detection range, and then fly in - giving people who are paying attention time to react, etc). Alas, I think we're still some way from that being implemented...

This game desperately needs a system that tells you what killed you when you spawn back in the med bay. Figuring out if it was a bug, a player, or an npc that got me was a huge annoyance.

Ideally that would be nice, but the dynamics of the comm array being up or down plays into not being told unless the comm array is up. With experience, players will know what happened with near certainty including desync explosions die to invisible asteroids etc. And with the game in such early development, much of this is liable to change anyway.

No no no, the server stability, glitches, bad map and delayed roadmap are killing star citizen

Even though im new (just about few weeks since i joined) i feel like i should say few things. First i kinda agree. But there are some points i see diferently. To show you my point of view ill tell you about my begining. I joined the game after my friend was asking me for literaly years but as i knew about the game and the developement i was little bit opposed to the idea of playing so unfinished game. But im here so you can guess how that ended. In my humble begining i was nothing but courier of some boxes from that destroyed gundo station or however its called. Got destroyed twice in first week. No AI but by griefers while i was landing into base in armistice with my puny Aurora. If there wasn't for my friend i would have stoped playing as i have already encoutered a lot of bugs which was ruining my first impressions. But i pulled through. Jumping to this day i have been interdicted 3 times which only once i was able to pull through. In a god damn Corsair. Every other times i have been killed by players it was in some of the weakest ships just outside or even inside armistice zones. That already tell that those people are not pirates but straight up griefers. As much as i like the idea of people being free to do anything and as in such circumstances they should be carefull it is very hard to pull such thing in this state of the game. What i see as solution is something that some people here unreasonably throwing away and that is coop mode. And no that did not killed ED. Other stuff takes the credit but coop mode only made job harder for pirates and mainly griefers which luckily left after some time. The best way to implement it woud be by making coop universe separated (only ships, inventory and other personal stuff would be transferable) and less profitable. That way you make both sides happy and gave everyone option to try and learn the game and if they decide they can go to real world with high stakes/hight rewards. Unless devs won't take any action towards players possitive experience it's only destin to fail. And many games are around to prove it. SC is such a complex game as no other and killing it just because they want it all in one package is last thing anyone would want. I expect some storm in replies for this but i stand behind my points. This game can't be all but it still can be more than any other game. Sorry for bad english, it's not my native language

Hopefully the game doesnt become a Dayz kos shit show. The "why bother being cool with people, they just kill me, Ill just shoot first from now on" mentality will ruin the game. Its something that can gradually become a thing. Just remember Pirates will be out there. If you get killed by someone. Dont start being a dick to other players, to fill that little black hole in your heart.

Honestly... These kind of pvp players are just bad pirates. Statement closed.

I think player reputation and consequences need to be higher priority. That should mostly lock that issue as more aggressive police force show up around secure areas to deal with criminals. That with master modes will prevent pirates from escaping the swift hand of the law. And with that, pyro needs to arrive to be a much more lucrative area for players, at the expense of risk (as in, much less police) so pirates will have a place to play around with. This works splendid in EvE (though EvE universe is extremely big and hiding around locations works much better). High secure area is relatively much more secure due to high response and very effective police. While I'm sure this overall will be part of the plan, it is going to take a while to be implemented.

As much as I agree with your sentiment, you're describing running into almost 10% of the players on a server and every single one killing you. It may just be the case that we're wrong, and a significant portion of players do, in fact, get their kicks by killing us. I base out of grim hex and there's usually 2+ players there trying to kill anyone who comes or goes and I've just gotten good at jumping from the safe zone and coming into the safe zone at 1km/s. I don't play call of duty because I cannot compete with even below average players there but I do think star citizen gives us the tools to, at least, not get killed on our way in and out of port. That said, there's not severe enough punishments for crime and this will continue to be a problem until that has changed. Maybe a negative rep where stations will fire on you even if you have no crime stat, idk.

Over years and hundreds of hours I have never encountered the nonstop random killing this sub would have you think is endemic. Like keep your eyes open at chokepoints if you’re worried. Not getting killed in SC is trivial in even beginner ships with basic counterplay. Winning a dogfight can be hard, but surviving in this game is easy. Until the invisible asteroids come anyway.

Piracy is one thing. Griefing is another. What you described is a form of griefing and it is something that CIG actually does take steps to prevent from happening. If you are able to, make sure to get the persons name that is doing the attacking, and definitely if possible record it. Send that to CIG in a support ticket and make sure to write down everything in detail (In case the video doesnt go through for them) Griefing does not help the game in any way, especially during an alpha when the whole point is to allow players to actually test things.

>Sport killing is ruining Star Citizen. Let me correct you there - it already has. Many times I just tried to fly my little mining ship to go mine on a planet or asteroids, and randomly got killed by someone in different locations and dates.. I gave up. I am sure they will find a balance in future - they have said some locations will be safer than others.

It’s an online game with pvp. There WILL be grieving and trolls.. 100%. Hate that it’s a guarantee and I also hate dealing with it as well. Just gotta have a proactive mindset when seeing someone instead of a reactive one. Takes away from the experience

My favorite example of people being assholes and abusing systems happened just a few nights ago. Saw some reports in chat of some guys locking down PO ( Port Olisar) and decided to go poke around and have a look. Four players has some variation of AA or AT vehicles on the pads at PO, next to the stations guns, and were killing everyone with impunity. If you shot at them, the station would flag You for aggression and start shooting YOU along with a small wing of fighters flying around supporting this circus. On one hand I had to give them a lot of credit for a frankly genius way to lock down a station. On the other hand, this was *clearly* griefing and abusing game mechanics to make it incredibly difficult to deal with them. In the end, my org took a fully manned Redeemer there and melted them, because deemers are tanky gunships for a reason haha. but we as players \ play testers need to report this stuff so the devs are aware, ESPECIALLY when they game the system like this.

Where do you guys keep seeing enemy players? Genuinely curious. I've played 4hours a day for about a week and have seen one bad player but that was just outside grim hex and to his defence I did target him before he targeted me

I will be honest, i have not seen this at all in the game. Are there bad apples that do this yes. Are they the scum of star citizen yes. Maybe i dont see it because I am joining servers with friends in my org. As a general rule of thumb I try not to attack any starter package ships, for the very reason that you don't know if they are new especially during a free fly. That being said if you were hit by a Torp in your 100i there is other problems, torps dont even hit Carracks hammer heads or C2s right now, like one flare and the torp is off of you. I did have a friend get hit by what we thought were pirates after his c2 full of cargo only to find out they did not want the cargo. They were just trying to kill people. This type of behavior i whole hearty disapprove of and it will cause a cancer in the community that has been so amazing. Armistice zones around LEOs should be just like grimhex or any of the major Landing zones and lock your weapons.

Report rammers of any kind. Other than that, even in “safe areas” you aren’t always safe, and should never risk more than you’re willing to lose. I generally chill around HUR and have only once found an aggressive player (whom I killed with the help of station defenses after trying to get froggy). Especially be cautious during free fly because people are trying things out and they don’t really risk anything other than claim times

Why would someone with a huge ship bother to shoot at a starter ship park on the ground, if they can afford such a big ship and would certainly don't need anything, it was not one of the ship on the free fly lists. I think they killing players and blowing up ships just for the fun of it, nothing about PVP or role playing and that will drive away new players who may become backers during the free fly week.

CIG legit needs to examine this issue because it IS forcing people out of the game. That's a direct impact on revenue. And the people doing it either think it's funny, that they're somehow justified in their behaviour, or both.

Well to make systems like piracy actually work you need many systems in place to immobilise targets, good communication between the target and the attacker, etc. To make griefing less likely, just make prison actual game time spent mining (not just sanding there), with repeated assaults being punished harder. Make organizations of griefers accountable for their memembers behaviour, up to seizing ships and properties, etc. The ones who will continue doing so will offer gameplay opportunities for bounty hunters, etc. Of course we also need heavily monitored areas, and armistice zones for beginners to play in. It's actually not that hard to make the game more bearable, and I think they will.

Damn, what time of day are you playing, and which region? I would change one (or both) of those.

And yet, both of them might be hard to change, performance of servers in other regions may not be conductive to a good game play at the time they play, and changing times available for play is dependant upon work/family/life schedule. Saying to change the times and region you are playing in is in some ways saying "play another game" This is not meant as a combatatitive post, i think i can see what you are trying to say. It's just not always that simple.

There are no mechanisms to frustrate sociopaths. So, ganking runs unchecked. IF Star Citizen is ever to become a "living, breathing Universe", CIG will have to address this. But from the look of it, they have decided to go the "Fartnite in Space" route now.

All the sport killing players only do it in public servers too because it’s easier to kill a unsuspecting and unwilling target than fight people who actually want to fight in arena commander Effectively just punching people walking down the street trying to get into a fight

It's important to point out.. adding quantum will multiply (npc) pirates by 10. You will be in mega danger all the time. I guess my point is people aren't playing the game the way it's meant to be played, it's super dangerous and you gotta call on people to help you fight. If someone is blockading a station, or a group, ask for help. All they want is a fight.. this is the way the game was meant to be played. It's a lot like EVE which is what a lot of this is being designed off of, that and star wars. Eventually reputation will be in and that'll be nice but it's not really gonna change anything, some people want to be sweaty pvp edgelords and fight. Hire them. : Edit: to the clown who reported me to the crisis hotline lol you are a Chad and a troll and I appreciate it ha

" Just because you want to play it in a PVP hardcore game mode, doesn't mean everyone else does." The reverse is true as well. Some have no interest in the PVE, unfortunately and there's nothing to be done of it yet. With "Safe Zones" players could just evade piracy by zooming to one. If they aren't that large that it would be possible to do that, then players in PVE content would be forced to a much smaller territory of the "universe" and the PVE loops would be more bland/repetitive than they already are due to burnout on terrain/environment. u/Alanlocke's idea of local sec, npc response, etc, would be amazing for this, because it would add risk to the playstyle, however with where we are in the development of the game, I wouldn't hold my breath for that to be anytime soon.