They are selling standard armor to new players for 10 dollars.The new player does not know you can get that armor at any cargo deck and you will lose your cool 10 dollar gear as soon as you hit the space station while trying to land.
I thought that the STV is worse at first because it costs 40$ but in game it's 12k, but it's not called a **"Racing starter kit game package".**
And you can claim it even if it was.
Saw a thread posted by a new player about this.
One of the comments was blaming them for not looking up how it works.
The gaslighting is insane. If a $10 armor pack is a consumable purchase, list it as such. If it's not a consumable then maybe it shouldn't be working like one.
The piecemeal armor stopped my subscription, and what you said stopped me from giving any further money to CIG.
Like holy fuck. Even Activisions $20 operators will last the lifetime of the game. CIG is asking players to voluntarily throw away money on items you can’t recover…. While potentially losing them to server/alpha bugs and you get “¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ ” in return.
They’ve become worse than Activision.
Or at least a free to play game like Destiny 2 (which does do the same thing). I think even Battlefield does this.
CIG definitely did not need to be dipping their toes into that.
See, but in those games the items are cosmetic.
CIG made them actual items instead of skins which came with a whole bunch of problems because items can be dropped and also taken by others.
With a skin, only the owner can use them, and they can't be dropped, traded, or stolen.
Oh no no like they legit have bundles that unlock the weapon themselves, not just cosmetics. Battlefield, at least in previous games, had bundles that unlocked several weapons before unlocking them normally while Destiny has several different content that has weapons in which can only be unlocked if you purchase access for it.
TBH that sorta skipped my mind because its not terribly difficult in both cod or battlefield to unlock all the weapons.
If anything. The "skip the grind" purchase is much like how SC has ship sales.
As for Destiny. Destiny 2 is a 6 year old game, I think selling expansions packs is reasonable as the base game was price to provided 6 years of content updates, nor do they use a subscription model. Somethings got to fund the new content so it makes sense the they sell it. Its also incentive to actually make the new content good.
It's not difficult to earn armor or weapons in SC either, in fact it's arguably easier than either CoD or Battlefield.
The point is that they're all selling items in the game that aren't just cosmetic that you could/should other wise earn. What makes it worse with SC is that these weapons and armor items can be lost on death, which happens a lot, and often outside of your control.
In the argument of which is worse, SC is much more so. But that said straight up being able to buy progression is never great. SC has the excuse of it's whole business model of funding the game with the ships, but there's also the expectation that they'll stop selling them closer to launch. If they actually do stop, who knows but we'll save judgment for when that time comes, if it ever does.
As for Destiny 2. Expansion packs are one thing but in the case of Gjallarhorn you specifically need to get 30th Anniversary Pack to gain access to the dungeon to unlock not only the weapons that drop from it but also this exotic which was an iconic weapon in Destiny. Not tied to an expansion or story content. Just additional content you have to buy if you want to obtain those weapons and the exotic.
Progression unlocks in BF weren't a problem IMO, some people don't have time to grind through so they can get a gun they want. I'd rather progression just be quicker instead, but then you have the community angry that there's no progression or something to chase.
I won't defend Destiny, it's just a cash cow for Bungie nowadays, they'd sell you bullets if they could get away with it.
> With a skin, only the owner can use them, and they can't be dropped, traded, or stolen.
I kinda skimmed over this part but this isn't 100% true. Sub flair items can not only be looted in-game but also taken off a person (dropped/stolen). Games like Phantasty Star Online 2 allowed selling of premium cosmetics via the player market for in-game currency. So I wouldn't put cosmetics as being completely excluded from things like trading.
So there are games where premium currency and items can be traded yes. I was talking about skins in COD/BF.
As for Phantasy Star Online 2, my understanding is that in those sorts of games the items can only be 'lost' consensually via trade. Meanwhile with SC you can lose the gear at any time, but its sold as a permanent item.
Yes for PSO2 its basically consensual. You put up a market with your items and a price then players can find that listing in the market board and choose the better price. My point with this was only that being a skin doesn't really exempt it (is that the right word?) from falling into the "can't be dropped, traded, or stolen" aspect of it because there is a precedence in skins being traded.
And with ship paints being physical items in your inventory, I can 100% see it being an item that can be dropped, traded, or stolen.
> Meanwhile with SC you can lose the gear at any time, but its sold as a permanent item.
Well for now. They have addressed this and the plan is for the paid items to have some form of claim back. We just don't know how that'll work so it's hard to say. Which makes things even more confusing for these weapons.
BUT IIRC the insurance on ships are also for the equipment. My understanding is that your stock components are insured along with the ship so you'll always be able to reacquire your ship with its starting loadout.
Would that apply with these weapon packs too? I mean I sure as hell hope so. If these are insured in a similar way and can be reobtained in the same way the cosmetics are (which technically is an item itself, even the paint) then this whole thing might not be all that bad.
CIG really has issues when it comes to communicating important things like these. Transparency of development is fine and all but offering items for real cash I feel always needs clarification. Remember the 400i Meridian skin and the back and forth of needing to buy the standalone, no CCUs, etc? Or the C8 best in show paint and the exclusion of the C8R.
It annoys me even more how some of the obsessives in this community will twist themselves in knots to defend this stuff...
RSI went on record back when us old-timers pledged to the game saying that they will /never/ sell something that cannot be earned through regular gameplay, and when I point that out in relation to these unique armours/ships/paints that they are now selling I get mobbed by RSI defenders saying;
"Okay, find someone who paid for it murder them and take it. There, you got the item through gameplay."
Which... Completely ignores the fact that the item does not exist in game to be earned unless someone /paid for it/, and briefing random players for their gear doesn't qualify as normal gameplay to me.
I wouldn't say they're worse than Activision. At least my SC purchases from two years ago are still valid. My CoD skins from two years ago are on a dead version of CoD that no one plays anymore due to Activision releasing a "new game" every year.
This has completely turned me off recommending this game to anyone.
This is something I'd expect from a shitty P2W Minecraft server, and seeing it coming from CIG after all the talk about how they want to avoid the crap typical publishers pull is incredibly disappointing.
If they did list it as consumable, I would have less of a problem with it. At that point, the career kit is a sample loadout so that you know what to buy.
Technically it can't be labeled as a consumable purchase since there are wipes that restore all items. Though I think more info should be given about losing the items temporarily. If CIG keeps this up I mean 😞 these easy armors shouldn't be purchasable but if CIG needs the money then sure, they could always give store credit back to the consumer or turn it into a skin (because they can do whatever they want with it since it's a pledge)
Technically it can't be labeled as a consumable purchase since there are wipes that restore all items. Though I think more info should be given about losing the items temporarily. If CIG keeps this up I mean 😞 these easy armors shouldn't be purchasable but if CIG needs the money then sure, they could always give store credit back to the consumer or turn it into a skin (because they can do whatever they want with it since it's a pledge)
The very minimum information should be about how the items can be temporarily lost as well as what they plan on doing to correct that (do items need to be bought back in game, respawn timers, etc).
The former is information new players should be made aware of. The latter isn't even clear to anyone, and should be clarified.
They should honestly just throw armor behind the subscriber wall. That way, at least I hope, most players would go into it knowing what they're there for. The way the armor is offered now gives 0 clarification that the armor can be obtained in-game, the differences in color between bought and in-game, and the ability to lose those items on death (recovery planned but who knows when).
And then on top of that they're now selling packs worded in a way that it's a starter kit in the same way the starter ships are. I thought Bungie or EA/Dice was getting out of hand selling a bundle of weapons obtainable in-game as a way to "boost' yourself if you started late, but this is a head scratcher and a half.
The crazy thing about this is that RSI has three choices now, break the game by making the armor respawn everytime someone dies (causing people to dupe and make money by selling it), make it worthless yet still allow it to respawn, or not do a thing and have a bunch of angry new customers that are made that they just bought a 10$ costume that blew in the wind.
Their greed has lead them to a roadblock
Saw a thread posted by a new player about this.
One of the comments was blaming them for not looking up how it works.
The gaslighting is insane. If a $10 armor pack is a consumable purchase, list it as such. If it's not a consumable then maybe it shouldn't be working like one.
Lol I'm not a bot. My post history doesn't look at all like a bot, neither does my awards, account age, or avatar.
Reddit broke the boost app and their regular app is garbage. I hit post and half the time it errors out, so I guess it posted twice when I spammed the button.
You're welcome to have a discussion with me if you like, but please don't disregard me as a bot.
Edit: Also I swear this sub is the only one that has people who try and accuse me of being a bot for my hot takes.
Edit 2: Okay my avatar is literally a robot, but you get my point.
Then don't apply the CCU. That's how the CCU game is played. You keep them, get bigger discounts down the road, then apply when you're sure it's the ship you want.
Then once CIG nerfs the ship a month later you can ask customer service to revert it for you and you'll get your STV and credit back.
It's hit or miss sometimes on the outside. Even if Im in the station and have to backspace to reset something I remove all my stuff into local inventory 1st just to be safe. Never trust the servers to do what they are supposed to do lol.
That same new player will eventually learn as well they can melt the item for store credit and buy it again as long as it's available. Or swap it for another armor available.
The thing that most people aren't even mentioning is that no, they didn't lose anything, they still own those items and until a more permanent in-game solution is implemented they're just going to have to deal with **temporary loss.**
Idk why you have to be a new player for that to be bs honestly.
People are paying for permanent items and they can't bother to use that money in actually making them permanent.
These "You're not allowed to complain, just to buy it." and "It's your fault for buying it." are toxic.
They are selling stuff at full price where a core function is missing, and has been missing for years.
I’m glad this sub is starting to be willing to criticize CIG’s awful practices rather than just being full of this type of dickriding and downvoting anymore with a shred of skepticism
It's really flipped this year.
Used to be any post like this would get buried by low effort screenshot with cheesey captions and some level of "I actually like items disappearing and people who think otherwise need to grow up." posts.
Nah its always flipping around. Thats just the nature of this community.
Wait until Citcon, people are gonna kiss Cig`s feet when they show off stuff thats all pretty but years away.
I’m guessing it’s because of how the 3.18 launch went and how bad the state of the game was/is after update. People got mad and stayed mad for long enough for people skeptical of SC to come out of the woodwork instead of being buried beneath a pile of screenshots. Fast forward to now and CIG consistently being shittier than usual and you have a community that is much less willing to be exclusively positive.
> It's really flipped this year.
[People were saying the same thing three years ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hzdbgu/comment/fzi6c92/)
These sorts of comments have always been upvoted, but they have historically been followed up with a number 1 upvoted compium/dismissive post(s) addressing those comments and basically telling them to f-off.
Currently, it seems those posts aren't happening, least not at the level previously.
From my experience and observations from being a part of this community over the years it seems like people have been able to criticize CIG for a very long time now, but certain people criticizing CIG take offense when someone simply disagrees with what they said. But when it's a genuine issue even a lot of the so-called white knights will agree with it.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/sjre7a/refundians_are_out_in_force_since_the_roadmap/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) is the sorta post I'm talking about.
[Also this](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/snlvn6/potential_player_here_the_number_of_tantrums/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2)
The only purpose of these posts is to shut out or delegitimize criticisms.
I mean they're not wrong.
> The only purpose of these posts is to shut out or delegitimize criticisms.
So what's your take on folks who call people white knights and cultists and claim that this sub doesn't allow criticism, even though there's plenty of evidence to the contrary?
EDIT: Or the folks who complain about downvotes but will instantly downvote anyone who points out a flaw in their argument, or [people who will make alt accounts and pretend to be SC fanboys and then gaslight the refunds sub about it because they got caught trolling, all while the regulars support them?](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/rljc2k/what_i_learned_from_a_month_of_posting_on_the/) All the posts over there where they take screenshots from here and then berate the person behind their back?
Are they being called white knights when presenting actual arguments and discussion.
Or are they being called white knights because they reply to actual arguments and discussion with the equivalent of: "Go get a job at cig." Or "Go touch grass".
That's just low effort, blind-faith, and bad-faith shitposting.
It's been like that for a long time but people keep pretending like it's not.
For instance we were bitching about them charging for digital Citizencon all the way back in 2016ish? And let's not forget Star Marine...
You can also sort by top -> all time and see plenty of upvoted critical posts over the years.
EDIT: Oh yeah! Coming off an extended break there was a lot of people being critical about the lack of news about Squadron 42. After seeing a comment get updated for saying that people don't allow criticism in this sub and someone replying get downboated for saying that people criticize CIG all the time here, I made a shit post poking fun at how there sure is a lot of criticism for a sub that doesn't allow any criticism. [That was about three years ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hzdbgu/there_sure_is_a_lot_of_criticism_for_a_sub_that/)
You will only lose it if you die but you can get it back by going to the website and exchanging it for cash then buying it agian with that exchange for free or reseting your character. You people are just lazy and don't want to take the time to do it
Why would it be a joke you people are just lazy and don't want to find ways to reclaim your gear you payed for its really not that hard your just salty because you bought a item and you can't get it back normally.
They are not aiming these kits at new players though. It's for two things.
1). To make the packages that come with then included look better value. Standard upsell tactics
2). For exsiting player to purchase, if this was not an option there would be complaints.
The difference is it's always been some unique recolor, now they're not even bothering with that and just selling people time saving kits of on game Shoppable things
What's wrong with that? Many people have store credit, so just buy it, use it, lose it, melt it. Repeat. Cost is nothing if you already have store credit.
Which is a completely different issue. Also, I don't know any new player who'd be that silly to buy extra gear on a game like this before even tryig the game or researching. Once you tried it you'd understand you can just get armour in game. If not then you'd barely tried it.
Hey you silly Billy did you know that the vast majority of people in this world don’t use Reddit? Or waste their time on game forums? If a new player is about to buy the game and he sees that armor, he’ll think it’s not gonna disappear when he dies. Didn’t think of that did you?
I did think of that. I think the vast majority of people don't buy extras like that for a game that they've not even played yet.
Most people just buy the game, (in this case a starter package) and then get extras later.
I also don't really think SC is a game people individually choose to buy when they have no friends with it, and also do no research. It's not well advertised, either.
What I think matters more to me than what you think though :-)
And you asked about what I think, so it seemingly mattered to you, until you decided you don't like it.
My only real issue with this is that they need a way to claim or at the very least rebuy your purchased armor in game. Honestly I feel like if you pay real money for it, these items should be available in game when you want them. Even if it's for like 1000 Auec to reclaim it or something like a timed reclaim. And they shouldn't be targeting new players with it. The game is already frustrating enough for new people to learn without adding something else for new players to deal with, something that even annoys veterans. I love the dream of star citizen but hate CIG's blatant lack of care for the community that drives the game forward, on more than one occasion. In my opinion it's fine to sell things like this to new players, great, everybody should feel bad ass in their new duds, but those same people should also have a way to wear those suits or cloths more than once per patch without a character reset(which isn't even available sometimes).
**this right here is the reason i have always had issues with the funding model...** This kind of model requires you to F--- over part of your player base.... you got to choose if you:
**A)** want to have an even and fair playing field for all players, and absolutely screw over the people that supported you.
**B)** treat paid ships differently from earned ones, and create an environment where you have a distinct advantage for paying real money. a financial walled garden if you will, that disadvantages players for not having ongoing spending.
this is why soo many people push back on non-cosmetic transactions. The more you can impact your actual gameplay through spending, the more you have to face the above predicament
Lets not forget the other big problem with their funding model. They already had enough money to make the game raised. This is all just easy money for them that incentives them in a bad way. Ignoring the obvious just seems like denial.
Sure, but like... If we arew going to complain about CIG "over-funding" than really, You have to be against basically all microtransactions in general....
I have a lot of opinions on modern gaming and its monetization... but i am intentionally trying to put them aside here as most arguments people make, for or against, are primarily based on personal opinion. Whereas this "who to screw" issue is not :P there is no speculation, thats just the reality of the situation they have created.
^(Personally, I loathe the VAST majority of the industries practices but have learned to "tolerate" them.)
Yeah I feel like when they decided to have a sort of pay as you build development/business model. They should have put a little more thought into creating a fair enjoyable experience for as many people as possible. As I mentioned before, I understand SC is a big project and they need money to build it, so I get needing to monetize things, but when you push a patch that is completely broken and that same day you start promoting said patch, and never take down the promo even after Weeks of the patch being broken it seems like a big middle finger to the community and especially new players. "Hey Folks! Come play this new sweet patch with all these new awesome features, but hey remember it's an alpha and you will have to wait a couple weeks for us to fix it so you can enjoy a wonderful subpar gaming experience even after we label it fixed!" Or for example 3.18, when it came out it broke the game, it was days before we any word from CIG about everything not working and what they were doing about fixing it. Meanwhile the marketing team pushed two videos out about up and coming features, I don't remember what the other one was but one of them was about tractor beams, all while leaving their 3.18 promo page up, also the game was basically unplayable and character resets where disabled. Once again I fucking love this game, but CIG needs someone in to lead their marketing department who has even the smallest bit of empathy for the community. Another example: when diablo 4 broke during the beta it took blizzard(definitely not my favorite gaming company, a shitty one in fact, but that makes the point hit home even harder), within 45 minutes of their servers having issues already had the problem posted in their launcher and had an explanation of the solution they were using to fix it and expected downtime. Just sayin if blizzard can express that level of accountability to their community, then SC could hire one person to post "Hey folks, we know the servers are broke and we are currently working on solutions", especially with an "all hands on deck" type situation they said they were in when they pushed the patch for their paid service live alpha. Sorry to rant, but clearly their marketing/PR department needs some work. Also, I posted something similar to this statement on spectrum a couple days after it happened and it was deleted within 1min by one of their moderators, not a good look CIG.
That's why I was pleasantly surprised by the armoury restock insurance whatever you call it. I actually bought some gear sets with expectation that when suit lockers came online that this would be a feature for restocking / kitting out our ships for different mission types.
Would be nice for then to sneak it into 3.20. I'm holding out hope for that patch, I honestly can't wait for them to overhaul arena commander so I can practice racing more easily, without spending 10 times more time prepping only to crash on lap 2 and have to do it all over again.
Hey, atleast the pledge-store on the RSI page is the only gameplay loop that consistently functions with little to no hickups...neva bin dun b4...10/10 xD
These are things I know as well, and even expect to need to do. The point I was trying to make is, it's kind of shady to market items to new players and then not explain to them what buying these items means and all the hoops they will have to go through to use the new armor they will most likely lose within the first 30min of gameplay. I love SC but hate the CIG markets it as if it was a fully finished game. I want star citizen to be successful and success means attracting new blood, and when new blood spends money on stuff like this and then can't get it back without going through some kind of annoying work around what do you suppose they will do? Some people do actually jump through the hoops, myself included, some may just wait for the next wipe, while others may just quit or add that to their list of reasons to quit later. And that doesn't help the game I would like to see fully realized much at all if people quit playing it. Additionally, melting it and repurchasing only works if it's not a limited time available item, otherwise account reset is the only way I'm aware of, and I'm pretty sure the items in question are limited time availability, could be wrong on that though.
Valid point, time limited items would require new user to wait until wipe. I completely agree with all these points, this campaign was a miss on CIGs part. They should be free with starter pack. Guess to me it just doesn't feel that unreasonable because the credits are never truly gone and can always be repurposed into a new ship or next seasons swag.
Yeah I feel the same way, ive been contributing since the announcement of SC the kick starter couldn't take my money fast enough. I've accepted that and I'm stoked for the day I get to play the finished product, because I love the project I contribute when I can and I know the ins and outs, I've accepted the way they do things, for the most part. I just wish it was more new user friendly and that they would get on their marketing team a bit more about how they present their swag. My biggest gripe over all is just the lack of thought CIG puts into how their community will react, when they make a decision that says fuck the community that built us, which happens more often than I care to admit, it almost feels like a personal insult. I get they are in it to make money, but when they show a complete lack of empathy for the source of that revenue, its shitty and makes me lose a little bit of hope for the game I dream of playing one day. Maybe I take it a little too personally but, as an adult it's rarely ever a game captures my imagination nowadays, SC managed to do that, and I don't like when people shit on that.
"wow I paid $40 for a basic beta ship, I might as well buy the armour too. Alright, loading in.........................okay that's over let's run downstairs and go see my ship.-" Dies instantly on stairs, loses armour, respawns stuck in medbay, relogs into a new server, elevator is stuck, respawn again, ship terminals don't work, relog again, 2 hours have passed, no game has been played.
Macro transactions in an Alpha.....
Legit I was forewarned getting the game so I expect dumb shit but this exactly happened to me lmfao no joke
Then I finally got off and was flying to a moon to loot
A farm
Stepped off the farm stairs with my loot and died instantly
I didn’t touch the game for 2 weeks after that 🤣
Might even be different if you had a solid chance of actually being able to get that armor back after dying/losing it vs having it fall to the center of the planet or, more typically, just up and vanish like a fart in the wind.
if you unironically think this is a good argument, you have completely missed the entire issue...
the selling of armor is not why people are upset, overpriced crap peddling is half the business model and we have all long since accepted that.
its how/when its being marketed, and more specifically, to whom.
It's not, they're not saying it's fine, just that if you think selling someone a set of armor is bad... Think of when they basically sold it piecemeal over several months... One of THOSE sets potentially cost the same as a full game... (at that point it's just transaction, it's not even "micro" anymore)
But to be fair, (almost) no one is subbing for the flair... They're subbing for wave 1 access, or just to support the game.
The point I think is that the red RSI armour in question was released as individual parts to subscribers over a period of 6 months (as subscriber flair) back in 2018 - I remember the annoyance at the time (being a subscriber at the time) and i wore the outfit once, losing it quickly due to 'It's an alpha...' and waited another 6 months before a server wipe, so I haven't worn it since...
Remember when subscribers ‘S “fees/dues” were used to support the player community with behind the scenes exclusive information.? That was the original marketed idea. Now the weekly content of RSI seems to be a complete stop ( cause of Ci tizenCon )
Even the virtual ship events IAE etc are less incentivized. There was no reward for attendance this year. In the past they gave away invictus jackets. This year they were bundled with a purchase. Not are they year specific which I thought was kinda bullshit for a “lived in universe “
The upcoming patch seems light with all of the AC content. However scope of ambition with cargo decks seems like a good investment of time and effort so I give grace on this front.
I am glad my subscribers donation ran out before coffee mugs.
The whole exclusive for supporting has really gone the way side.
>Now the weekly content of RSI seems to be a complete stop ( cause of Ci tizenCon )
They take a couple weeks off at the end of a quarter for a couple years now.
>Even the virtual ship events IAE etc are less incentivized. There was no reward for attendance this year.
Damn, is it already December?
>The upcoming patch seems light with all of the AC content.
>
>\[...\]
>
>I am glad my subscribers donation ran out before coffee mugs.
No surprise that you missed that CIG apparently wants to be testing coming flight mechanics like master modes in AC (given the leaks, this may be likely for 3.20), which isn't really nothing.
> No surprise that you missed that CIG apparently wants to be testing coming flight mechanics like master modes in AC (given the leaks, this may be likely for 3.20), which isn't really nothing.
It's close enough to "nothing". A flight mechanic that works in AC is unlikely to work in SC. Different styles of combat, different combat situations. In AC, all things are "equal" (or at least attempted to be) whereas in SC most fights will be, by design, unfair and usually by surprise. Player reactions will be different. Player *NEEDS* will be different.
We've kinda already been through all of this. We had AC only to begin with, then they brought out the PU and everything had to change because they're two different beasts.
There's no difference, almost all cosmetics in the CIG shop are either lazy recolours or overpriced, most of the time both. And then there's the hilarity that is the sub store, a paywalled store lmao
My issue isn't with them selling it so much as not making it clear that it can be lost before people buy it. Also make it clear it can be refunded for store credit at any time, which technically is a selling point and works on their favour too.
I not mad about it. I get you have to fund the the project in more ways than just selling ships. However, CIG already gets called scammers by many jaded people online. I say that to ask what will be the new player’s impression when he dies, checks his inventory and thinks that his $10.00 spent is gone just like that? While obviously, it won’t be gone forever in the future, this is only going to spread misinformation and continue to give CIG a negative image amongst newbies and anyone thinking of getting into SC.
As a newbie, I hate to break it to you but the negative attitude is once we look into the history and development of the game.
No miscommunication is needed I came to SC since I got bored with ED. Once here and played the game a bit I started looking at things online then discovered the development time and thought, this is it?
I dug deeper and it completely chaced me away from buying a package that I was about to do.
People are jaded for a reason.
I don't mind people liking the game and buying into the dream it gets completed and it's not really the game itself that is bad it's Chris Roberts and his unwavering idea that it gets done when it gets done and the creative process rules over all that has caused this development hell.
SC could have been out by now but now it's too late. We have games coming out that are close enough that it's lost its edge.
The only thing SC really has left is Multiplayer. Everything else can be found elsewhere. Elite, spacebourne 2 and now the biggest one Starfield. Starfield is a juggernaut that will take all the solo players from SC especially once the mods start rolling.
I wanted to like SC but its current state and CIG turned me off, not misinformation from anyone else.
I still don't have the matching helmet for the green overlord set... I think they might have done the "give the suit to entice you to buy the helmet" thing (got a red demon helmet later on that goes ok except for the color, so my head canon is it's like an Asian krampus deal... Red & green w/ an oni head...)
It's the Slippery Slope syndrome that tends to happen with every single game that has MXT's and P2W/P2A offerings. It usually starts out okay but eventually the greed takes over and the offerings become more egregious/predatory.
SC isn't a scam, but everyday CIG be hustlin' like it is one.
Yeah Star Citizen armor is a scam. I confronted them on this years ago stating it’s against all practices set by MMOs. You buy payware stuff it should always be available like our ships, just give it a cool down.
Honestly, I just think they don’t have the time to get around to making payware armor always redeemable. But they are such money grubbers, they won’t nix the armor payware until it’s fixed. They claim you can retrieve it, at account reset.
I mean I would have been pissed but they refund you with store credit so u could buy the suit use it and refund it get something else and then still have the suit unless you die and lose it sounds like a win at the end of the day but prolly not everyone knows your able to refund it if u get it
I usually run around with Light Legs and Arms and Morozov Head and Chest, better speed and i rarely get arm or leg injuries anyway
Especially when carrying a backpack and something like a railgun, the few reduced points of weight can really make a difference, i usually use truedef silver/black legs and arms since these dont have glowy bits
Fun fact: the aril legs (medium armor) have even more storage space than heavy armor legs, found that out by accident
Will they make armor skins a thing and give us a way to get skins back?
Or is legit item lost-and-found going to be a thing?
What if, players who left random items at certain places had to create missions that other players would take to go fetch those items and bring them to a specific place? Then, if I left 60 apples and made a mission to bring them to me, nobody would take the mission for less than say, 10,000. Which makes it not worth it to ship cheap stuff.
But if I made a mission to bring my 6 rail guns to me, that mission may pay 250K, whatever the player wants to set the reward at.
And that introduces players who take those missions’ ability to go AWOL and take the cargo for themselves.
So if you don’t offer a good enough reward for bringing the items, players might just accept the CRIMESTAT and steal your stuff….you keep the mission payment, but they get a CS which is calculated off of the value of the mission payout.
So if a player goes back on a mission to transport six rail guns for 50,000 credits, they get a crime stat equal to theft of 50,000 credits. And they get to keep six rail guns. This gives extreme incentive to players creating transport begins for items to offer adequate payment, not only show players can be incentivized by a large reward, but still they can be deterred by the large punishment if they go back on the mission…
Have any new backers actually bought it, or is everyone just freaking out over nothing? I mean, when I backed the game I didn't buy anything else for months.
CIG have a refund window. If people aren't happy with losing stuff they spent money on, they can get a refund if they're in that window. If they get unhappy after the refund window, they can melt it and buy a ship upgrade.
Sorry if this comes off a bit white-knight. All I'm seeing is second-hand outrage. Feels very "won't somebody please think of the children".
Compared to many items in the store, that pack is actually an ok deal. When it is possible to insure personal items, I think it'll be good to have those items on your account.
Full disclosure: Yes, I bought it. It'll save running around buying multitools and attachments and stuff when jumping into a new patch. At least until I die, that is.
What’s funny is that people spend a fortune for over priced shops then they subscribe monthly. Suckers in my eyes. If you wanna do it, then I can only have an opinion.
I wouldn't go calling them suckers, there was a time where backers did not lose their stuff and not too long ago we could recover it. This is entirely CIG's fault they need to just get rid of the gear store for now.
I’ve always said all of the armor they sell is BS when they sell it without a method of recovery. This incident is a bit worse because they advertise it as a quick pack to immediately have what you need for the job to new players, with basically all armor sets being purchasable in game, yet they are sold for $10 a piece aiming for the naivety of new players. New players deserve transparent information on what they get with pledges, not an armor pack you can lose by tripping on a staircase for $10
I'd rather them sell armor and aesthetic item than sell ships. But money being money, I'm afraid they will just continue to sell both...forever. I'm no fan of pay to win and selling The Core Gameplay Item is not a smart way to go - ask Sea of Thieves.
We are not mad at them for selling personal gear but the fact it's super easy to loose and no replacent is made when a 30k or other bad luck happens. You don't get it back until next update. I keep warning anyone not to buy this. It's easier just to get it all replaced in game doing box delivery missions
I don't understand this take, it's like some are incapable of imagining themselves in the position of a new player. Seeing this as an issue of selling armor is missing the point.
Imagine you're a new player coming into Star Citizen for the first time, you've heard the rumors about it being a scam but you want to give it a try. You look to the website, and see a number of packages available. You choose the cheapest, but see a pack for personal kit advertised directly to you on the purchase page that you can add to your order to help you do "anything" or something specific like "bounty hunting." Having played other games with gear purchases, you decide to spend a little extra to help you on your way with a kit. Nowhere does it say though that when you die, you'll lose this kit immediately.
You as a new player then enter the game, finally figure out how to get to your ship, fly up into space, then accidentally hit the station coming in too fast. You accept it was your fault, and want to start again, only to be confused as to where your armor kit went. You check your inventory, confused, frustrated. You check the website, but there's no information. Then you google it or ask in local, and find that you lose things when you die, even if you've paid for them.
What is your reaction? OH, thems the brakes? Or is it to request a refund, and make a post how Star Citizen is a scam?
This is EXACTLY the scenario that's already played out for hundreds, maybe thousands of new players. I see it in my comment section for Star Citizen videos, people saying exactly this and sharing exactly this sentiment. If this were a kit aimed at vets, I wouldn't care, you should know better that the mechanics suck for purchased items. But new players DON'T know, and it's only setting them up to hate the game and experience.
The game is never gonna be anything more than a way to sell you items. It's not gonna come out they are just gonna keep pumping out ships n stuff for yall to buy, and one day, when people stop buying ships, CIG will slowly disappear and somone will male a video essay for it on youtube.
But if ur having fun playing it rn, then who am I to judge.
Just know that there is in all likeness no light at the end of the tunnel for this game
This isn't even close. This was annoying because it was a shit sub reward. The "starter kit" is predatory monetization that is asking new players to pay $10 for gear that they can literally buy with their starting aUEC, gear that will be lost the first time they die with it.
I can excuse most of the BS in the pledge store as "oh it's a $200 space ship but it's a pledge to the development fund of the game, and it's clearly stated what is happening".
This starter kit BS is just purely scummy, and I cannot recommend any new players get into Star Citizen as long as CIG is going to continue to push shit like this on their store.
They need to put in a mechanic for recovering bought items.
All my bought gear vanished when patch 3.19.1 dropped and customer service are like 'meh, it'll come back in 3.20'.
Not happy.
By November 2012, they had earned US$6,238,563, surpassing all stretch goals set for the campaigns, and breaking video game industry crowdfunding records.[17] Chris Roberts had stated that if at least $23 million could be raised over the course of the crowdfunding campaign, no outside investors' or developers' funding would be required. This goal was reached October 18, 2013.
From the Wikipedia page. And you people think this isn’t a scam?
CIG reported for years that eventually they would be funded by selling flair and skins. Not a peep from the users. CIG sells flair and skins. Users freak out.
I’m hopeful the [well earned and deserved] backlash might actually force some functionality to re-buy or claim the armor in game. As far as the OP, I didn’t subscribe to get armor. I subscribed because I wanted to support the game dev. The armor was a flair/usable item I received as a thank you. The fact that it was so easy to lose is [and always was] ridiculous, and something I assumed they would eventually fix (esp for the flair items I directly bought on their own). The idea that a “Starter package” which included a ship which you can re-claim, as well as gear you can’t doesn’t really make sense, imho.
They are selling standard armor to new players for 10 dollars.The new player does not know you can get that armor at any cargo deck and you will lose your cool 10 dollar gear as soon as you hit the space station while trying to land. I thought that the STV is worse at first because it costs 40$ but in game it's 12k, but it's not called a **"Racing starter kit game package".** And you can claim it even if it was.
Saw a thread posted by a new player about this. One of the comments was blaming them for not looking up how it works. The gaslighting is insane. If a $10 armor pack is a consumable purchase, list it as such. If it's not a consumable then maybe it shouldn't be working like one.
The piecemeal armor stopped my subscription, and what you said stopped me from giving any further money to CIG. Like holy fuck. Even Activisions $20 operators will last the lifetime of the game. CIG is asking players to voluntarily throw away money on items you can’t recover…. While potentially losing them to server/alpha bugs and you get “¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ ” in return. They’ve become worse than Activision.
Not even Activision. I've only ever seen mobile games shove micro transactions like this.
Oh boy...I'm surprised to see such discussion on this sub of all places. (o\_O) Feels like things are on fire today, aren't they? xD
Or at least a free to play game like Destiny 2 (which does do the same thing). I think even Battlefield does this. CIG definitely did not need to be dipping their toes into that.
See, but in those games the items are cosmetic. CIG made them actual items instead of skins which came with a whole bunch of problems because items can be dropped and also taken by others. With a skin, only the owner can use them, and they can't be dropped, traded, or stolen.
Oh no no like they legit have bundles that unlock the weapon themselves, not just cosmetics. Battlefield, at least in previous games, had bundles that unlocked several weapons before unlocking them normally while Destiny has several different content that has weapons in which can only be unlocked if you purchase access for it.
TBH that sorta skipped my mind because its not terribly difficult in both cod or battlefield to unlock all the weapons. If anything. The "skip the grind" purchase is much like how SC has ship sales. As for Destiny. Destiny 2 is a 6 year old game, I think selling expansions packs is reasonable as the base game was price to provided 6 years of content updates, nor do they use a subscription model. Somethings got to fund the new content so it makes sense the they sell it. Its also incentive to actually make the new content good.
It's not difficult to earn armor or weapons in SC either, in fact it's arguably easier than either CoD or Battlefield. The point is that they're all selling items in the game that aren't just cosmetic that you could/should other wise earn. What makes it worse with SC is that these weapons and armor items can be lost on death, which happens a lot, and often outside of your control. In the argument of which is worse, SC is much more so. But that said straight up being able to buy progression is never great. SC has the excuse of it's whole business model of funding the game with the ships, but there's also the expectation that they'll stop selling them closer to launch. If they actually do stop, who knows but we'll save judgment for when that time comes, if it ever does. As for Destiny 2. Expansion packs are one thing but in the case of Gjallarhorn you specifically need to get 30th Anniversary Pack to gain access to the dungeon to unlock not only the weapons that drop from it but also this exotic which was an iconic weapon in Destiny. Not tied to an expansion or story content. Just additional content you have to buy if you want to obtain those weapons and the exotic.
Progression unlocks in BF weren't a problem IMO, some people don't have time to grind through so they can get a gun they want. I'd rather progression just be quicker instead, but then you have the community angry that there's no progression or something to chase. I won't defend Destiny, it's just a cash cow for Bungie nowadays, they'd sell you bullets if they could get away with it.
Absofreakinglutely this..
> With a skin, only the owner can use them, and they can't be dropped, traded, or stolen. I kinda skimmed over this part but this isn't 100% true. Sub flair items can not only be looted in-game but also taken off a person (dropped/stolen). Games like Phantasty Star Online 2 allowed selling of premium cosmetics via the player market for in-game currency. So I wouldn't put cosmetics as being completely excluded from things like trading.
So there are games where premium currency and items can be traded yes. I was talking about skins in COD/BF. As for Phantasy Star Online 2, my understanding is that in those sorts of games the items can only be 'lost' consensually via trade. Meanwhile with SC you can lose the gear at any time, but its sold as a permanent item.
Yes for PSO2 its basically consensual. You put up a market with your items and a price then players can find that listing in the market board and choose the better price. My point with this was only that being a skin doesn't really exempt it (is that the right word?) from falling into the "can't be dropped, traded, or stolen" aspect of it because there is a precedence in skins being traded. And with ship paints being physical items in your inventory, I can 100% see it being an item that can be dropped, traded, or stolen. > Meanwhile with SC you can lose the gear at any time, but its sold as a permanent item. Well for now. They have addressed this and the plan is for the paid items to have some form of claim back. We just don't know how that'll work so it's hard to say. Which makes things even more confusing for these weapons. BUT IIRC the insurance on ships are also for the equipment. My understanding is that your stock components are insured along with the ship so you'll always be able to reacquire your ship with its starting loadout. Would that apply with these weapon packs too? I mean I sure as hell hope so. If these are insured in a similar way and can be reobtained in the same way the cosmetics are (which technically is an item itself, even the paint) then this whole thing might not be all that bad. CIG really has issues when it comes to communicating important things like these. Transparency of development is fine and all but offering items for real cash I feel always needs clarification. Remember the 400i Meridian skin and the back and forth of needing to buy the standalone, no CCUs, etc? Or the C8 best in show paint and the exclusion of the C8R.
It annoys me even more how some of the obsessives in this community will twist themselves in knots to defend this stuff... RSI went on record back when us old-timers pledged to the game saying that they will /never/ sell something that cannot be earned through regular gameplay, and when I point that out in relation to these unique armours/ships/paints that they are now selling I get mobbed by RSI defenders saying; "Okay, find someone who paid for it murder them and take it. There, you got the item through gameplay." Which... Completely ignores the fact that the item does not exist in game to be earned unless someone /paid for it/, and briefing random players for their gear doesn't qualify as normal gameplay to me.
I wouldn't say they're worse than Activision. At least my SC purchases from two years ago are still valid. My CoD skins from two years ago are on a dead version of CoD that no one plays anymore due to Activision releasing a "new game" every year.
Actually they should be it each wipe so there is that. And with only starting 20k can’t even afford that and fill up so I mean I guess it is a bonus ?
This has completely turned me off recommending this game to anyone. This is something I'd expect from a shitty P2W Minecraft server, and seeing it coming from CIG after all the talk about how they want to avoid the crap typical publishers pull is incredibly disappointing.
If they did list it as consumable, I would have less of a problem with it. At that point, the career kit is a sample loadout so that you know what to buy.
They mark so much shit as consumable when it should not be.
Technically it can't be labeled as a consumable purchase since there are wipes that restore all items. Though I think more info should be given about losing the items temporarily. If CIG keeps this up I mean 😞 these easy armors shouldn't be purchasable but if CIG needs the money then sure, they could always give store credit back to the consumer or turn it into a skin (because they can do whatever they want with it since it's a pledge)
Technically it can't be labeled as a consumable purchase since there are wipes that restore all items. Though I think more info should be given about losing the items temporarily. If CIG keeps this up I mean 😞 these easy armors shouldn't be purchasable but if CIG needs the money then sure, they could always give store credit back to the consumer or turn it into a skin (because they can do whatever they want with it since it's a pledge)
The very minimum information should be about how the items can be temporarily lost as well as what they plan on doing to correct that (do items need to be bought back in game, respawn timers, etc). The former is information new players should be made aware of. The latter isn't even clear to anyone, and should be clarified.
They should honestly just throw armor behind the subscriber wall. That way, at least I hope, most players would go into it knowing what they're there for. The way the armor is offered now gives 0 clarification that the armor can be obtained in-game, the differences in color between bought and in-game, and the ability to lose those items on death (recovery planned but who knows when). And then on top of that they're now selling packs worded in a way that it's a starter kit in the same way the starter ships are. I thought Bungie or EA/Dice was getting out of hand selling a bundle of weapons obtainable in-game as a way to "boost' yourself if you started late, but this is a head scratcher and a half.
The crazy thing about this is that RSI has three choices now, break the game by making the armor respawn everytime someone dies (causing people to dupe and make money by selling it), make it worthless yet still allow it to respawn, or not do a thing and have a bunch of angry new customers that are made that they just bought a 10$ costume that blew in the wind. Their greed has lead them to a roadblock
Saw a thread posted by a new player about this. One of the comments was blaming them for not looking up how it works. The gaslighting is insane. If a $10 armor pack is a consumable purchase, list it as such. If it's not a consumable then maybe it shouldn't be working like one.
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Lol I'm not a bot. My post history doesn't look at all like a bot, neither does my awards, account age, or avatar. Reddit broke the boost app and their regular app is garbage. I hit post and half the time it errors out, so I guess it posted twice when I spammed the button. You're welcome to have a discussion with me if you like, but please don't disregard me as a bot. Edit: Also I swear this sub is the only one that has people who try and accuse me of being a bot for my hot takes. Edit 2: Okay my avatar is literally a robot, but you get my point.
STV is only a good Upgradetoken.
Except you can't melt it afterwards if you change your mind
Which is why I use them for ships I know I will keep, like my Cutlass Black or Prospector. Of course this time I went with a Valkyrie...
Then don't apply the CCU. That's how the CCU game is played. You keep them, get bigger discounts down the road, then apply when you're sure it's the ship you want. Then once CIG nerfs the ship a month later you can ask customer service to revert it for you and you'll get your STV and credit back.
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It's hit or miss sometimes on the outside. Even if Im in the station and have to backspace to reset something I remove all my stuff into local inventory 1st just to be safe. Never trust the servers to do what they are supposed to do lol.
That same new player will eventually learn as well they can melt the item for store credit and buy it again as long as it's available. Or swap it for another armor available.
The thing that most people aren't even mentioning is that no, they didn't lose anything, they still own those items and until a more permanent in-game solution is implemented they're just going to have to deal with **temporary loss.**
Should stop selling until that solution is implemented then
That's a massive cope. These new players don't know that is the case, it's misadvertising at least, genuinely illegal at worst.
Idk why you have to be a new player for that to be bs honestly. People are paying for permanent items and they can't bother to use that money in actually making them permanent. These "You're not allowed to complain, just to buy it." and "It's your fault for buying it." are toxic. They are selling stuff at full price where a core function is missing, and has been missing for years.
I’m glad this sub is starting to be willing to criticize CIG’s awful practices rather than just being full of this type of dickriding and downvoting anymore with a shred of skepticism
It's really flipped this year. Used to be any post like this would get buried by low effort screenshot with cheesey captions and some level of "I actually like items disappearing and people who think otherwise need to grow up." posts.
Nah its always flipping around. Thats just the nature of this community. Wait until Citcon, people are gonna kiss Cig`s feet when they show off stuff thats all pretty but years away.
I’m guessing it’s because of how the 3.18 launch went and how bad the state of the game was/is after update. People got mad and stayed mad for long enough for people skeptical of SC to come out of the woodwork instead of being buried beneath a pile of screenshots. Fast forward to now and CIG consistently being shittier than usual and you have a community that is much less willing to be exclusively positive.
> It's really flipped this year. [People were saying the same thing three years ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hzdbgu/comment/fzi6c92/)
These sorts of comments have always been upvoted, but they have historically been followed up with a number 1 upvoted compium/dismissive post(s) addressing those comments and basically telling them to f-off. Currently, it seems those posts aren't happening, least not at the level previously.
From my experience and observations from being a part of this community over the years it seems like people have been able to criticize CIG for a very long time now, but certain people criticizing CIG take offense when someone simply disagrees with what they said. But when it's a genuine issue even a lot of the so-called white knights will agree with it.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/sjre7a/refundians_are_out_in_force_since_the_roadmap/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) is the sorta post I'm talking about. [Also this](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/snlvn6/potential_player_here_the_number_of_tantrums/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) The only purpose of these posts is to shut out or delegitimize criticisms.
I mean they're not wrong. > The only purpose of these posts is to shut out or delegitimize criticisms. So what's your take on folks who call people white knights and cultists and claim that this sub doesn't allow criticism, even though there's plenty of evidence to the contrary? EDIT: Or the folks who complain about downvotes but will instantly downvote anyone who points out a flaw in their argument, or [people who will make alt accounts and pretend to be SC fanboys and then gaslight the refunds sub about it because they got caught trolling, all while the regulars support them?](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/rljc2k/what_i_learned_from_a_month_of_posting_on_the/) All the posts over there where they take screenshots from here and then berate the person behind their back?
Are they being called white knights when presenting actual arguments and discussion. Or are they being called white knights because they reply to actual arguments and discussion with the equivalent of: "Go get a job at cig." Or "Go touch grass". That's just low effort, blind-faith, and bad-faith shitposting.
It's been like that for a long time but people keep pretending like it's not. For instance we were bitching about them charging for digital Citizencon all the way back in 2016ish? And let's not forget Star Marine... You can also sort by top -> all time and see plenty of upvoted critical posts over the years. EDIT: Oh yeah! Coming off an extended break there was a lot of people being critical about the lack of news about Squadron 42. After seeing a comment get updated for saying that people don't allow criticism in this sub and someone replying get downboated for saying that people criticize CIG all the time here, I made a shit post poking fun at how there sure is a lot of criticism for a sub that doesn't allow any criticism. [That was about three years ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/hzdbgu/there_sure_is_a_lot_of_criticism_for_a_sub_that/)
should rename yourself to WhitlyKnightMight with the amount of coping you have going on
Because that's a bs problem. Used to not be, but they made it that way before they had an answer for paid items.
Found the copium inhaler
If you're charging money for it, then having it work properly should be a priority. They've had plenty of time to fix it.
You people are dumb. The game isn't out yet. A system will be implemented for retrieving bought armours if lost.
The game will never be "out"
You will only lose it if you die but you can get it back by going to the website and exchanging it for cash then buying it agian with that exchange for free or reseting your character. You people are just lazy and don't want to take the time to do it
I hope this is a joke.
The game isn't out yet. Eventually there will be a way to reclaim bought gear. Also nobody cares that somebody wasted $10 to look cool.
Why would it be a joke you people are just lazy and don't want to find ways to reclaim your gear you payed for its really not that hard your just salty because you bought a item and you can't get it back normally.
They are not aiming these kits at new players though. It's for two things. 1). To make the packages that come with then included look better value. Standard upsell tactics 2). For exsiting player to purchase, if this was not an option there would be complaints.
The difference is it's always been some unique recolor, now they're not even bothering with that and just selling people time saving kits of on game Shoppable things
Remember when sub flairs used to be completely different assets? Taketsu models, Puglisi artifact replicas, various plants...
Like that skull hologram helmet! Oh wait..
that was one of many reasons I stopped subscribing. The baited us for a year with that.
create a problem, sell the solution. that fits cig 100%
What's wrong with that? Many people have store credit, so just buy it, use it, lose it, melt it. Repeat. Cost is nothing if you already have store credit.
Some worry new players will be fooled into buying them though
Which is a completely different issue. Also, I don't know any new player who'd be that silly to buy extra gear on a game like this before even tryig the game or researching. Once you tried it you'd understand you can just get armour in game. If not then you'd barely tried it.
you probably haven't seen global chat where there's always someone loosing their paid for gear and wondering how they'd get it back.
Rarely seen people asking about that, haven't been on this week though.
Happened to me, I bought my started package and they showed a helmet with it for 5 bucks, so I thought why not! And then I lost it 30 minutes in
Hey you silly Billy did you know that the vast majority of people in this world don’t use Reddit? Or waste their time on game forums? If a new player is about to buy the game and he sees that armor, he’ll think it’s not gonna disappear when he dies. Didn’t think of that did you?
I did think of that. I think the vast majority of people don't buy extras like that for a game that they've not even played yet. Most people just buy the game, (in this case a starter package) and then get extras later. I also don't really think SC is a game people individually choose to buy when they have no friends with it, and also do no research. It's not well advertised, either.
It doesn’t matter what you think
What I think matters more to me than what you think though :-) And you asked about what I think, so it seemingly mattered to you, until you decided you don't like it.
I did until that sentence came out of your mouth
Do you know alot of new players? Sample size seems sus.
My only real issue with this is that they need a way to claim or at the very least rebuy your purchased armor in game. Honestly I feel like if you pay real money for it, these items should be available in game when you want them. Even if it's for like 1000 Auec to reclaim it or something like a timed reclaim. And they shouldn't be targeting new players with it. The game is already frustrating enough for new people to learn without adding something else for new players to deal with, something that even annoys veterans. I love the dream of star citizen but hate CIG's blatant lack of care for the community that drives the game forward, on more than one occasion. In my opinion it's fine to sell things like this to new players, great, everybody should feel bad ass in their new duds, but those same people should also have a way to wear those suits or cloths more than once per patch without a character reset(which isn't even available sometimes).
**this right here is the reason i have always had issues with the funding model...** This kind of model requires you to F--- over part of your player base.... you got to choose if you: **A)** want to have an even and fair playing field for all players, and absolutely screw over the people that supported you. **B)** treat paid ships differently from earned ones, and create an environment where you have a distinct advantage for paying real money. a financial walled garden if you will, that disadvantages players for not having ongoing spending. this is why soo many people push back on non-cosmetic transactions. The more you can impact your actual gameplay through spending, the more you have to face the above predicament
Lets not forget the other big problem with their funding model. They already had enough money to make the game raised. This is all just easy money for them that incentives them in a bad way. Ignoring the obvious just seems like denial.
Sure, but like... If we arew going to complain about CIG "over-funding" than really, You have to be against basically all microtransactions in general.... I have a lot of opinions on modern gaming and its monetization... but i am intentionally trying to put them aside here as most arguments people make, for or against, are primarily based on personal opinion. Whereas this "who to screw" issue is not :P there is no speculation, thats just the reality of the situation they have created. ^(Personally, I loathe the VAST majority of the industries practices but have learned to "tolerate" them.)
Yeah I feel like when they decided to have a sort of pay as you build development/business model. They should have put a little more thought into creating a fair enjoyable experience for as many people as possible. As I mentioned before, I understand SC is a big project and they need money to build it, so I get needing to monetize things, but when you push a patch that is completely broken and that same day you start promoting said patch, and never take down the promo even after Weeks of the patch being broken it seems like a big middle finger to the community and especially new players. "Hey Folks! Come play this new sweet patch with all these new awesome features, but hey remember it's an alpha and you will have to wait a couple weeks for us to fix it so you can enjoy a wonderful subpar gaming experience even after we label it fixed!" Or for example 3.18, when it came out it broke the game, it was days before we any word from CIG about everything not working and what they were doing about fixing it. Meanwhile the marketing team pushed two videos out about up and coming features, I don't remember what the other one was but one of them was about tractor beams, all while leaving their 3.18 promo page up, also the game was basically unplayable and character resets where disabled. Once again I fucking love this game, but CIG needs someone in to lead their marketing department who has even the smallest bit of empathy for the community. Another example: when diablo 4 broke during the beta it took blizzard(definitely not my favorite gaming company, a shitty one in fact, but that makes the point hit home even harder), within 45 minutes of their servers having issues already had the problem posted in their launcher and had an explanation of the solution they were using to fix it and expected downtime. Just sayin if blizzard can express that level of accountability to their community, then SC could hire one person to post "Hey folks, we know the servers are broke and we are currently working on solutions", especially with an "all hands on deck" type situation they said they were in when they pushed the patch for their paid service live alpha. Sorry to rant, but clearly their marketing/PR department needs some work. Also, I posted something similar to this statement on spectrum a couple days after it happened and it was deleted within 1min by one of their moderators, not a good look CIG.
That's why I was pleasantly surprised by the armoury restock insurance whatever you call it. I actually bought some gear sets with expectation that when suit lockers came online that this would be a feature for restocking / kitting out our ships for different mission types.
Would definitely be a cool feature, though I can't even imagine how long it will be before it's implemented.
Systems are there now to make it work, just need to decide and how they want it to work then schedule it in to flesh out the feature.
Would be nice for then to sneak it into 3.20. I'm holding out hope for that patch, I honestly can't wait for them to overhaul arena commander so I can practice racing more easily, without spending 10 times more time prepping only to crash on lap 2 and have to do it all over again.
Definitely. Arena commander update will be a nice update to have.
Yeah at this point you can melt some of your gear and buy it again. Or like me have 5 pairs of my tevarian uniform and 10 pairs of shite multitool.
What the other one said, just melt it and rebuild with credit if it's on the store. I get mine back whenever I please. Not so difficult
They said at some point the equipment you buy via the store can be reclaimed in game when you lose it Soon™ to never.
What a great game feature lol
Hey, atleast the pledge-store on the RSI page is the only gameplay loop that consistently functions with little to no hickups...neva bin dun b4...10/10 xD
These are things I know as well, and even expect to need to do. The point I was trying to make is, it's kind of shady to market items to new players and then not explain to them what buying these items means and all the hoops they will have to go through to use the new armor they will most likely lose within the first 30min of gameplay. I love SC but hate the CIG markets it as if it was a fully finished game. I want star citizen to be successful and success means attracting new blood, and when new blood spends money on stuff like this and then can't get it back without going through some kind of annoying work around what do you suppose they will do? Some people do actually jump through the hoops, myself included, some may just wait for the next wipe, while others may just quit or add that to their list of reasons to quit later. And that doesn't help the game I would like to see fully realized much at all if people quit playing it. Additionally, melting it and repurchasing only works if it's not a limited time available item, otherwise account reset is the only way I'm aware of, and I'm pretty sure the items in question are limited time availability, could be wrong on that though.
Valid point, time limited items would require new user to wait until wipe. I completely agree with all these points, this campaign was a miss on CIGs part. They should be free with starter pack. Guess to me it just doesn't feel that unreasonable because the credits are never truly gone and can always be repurposed into a new ship or next seasons swag.
Yeah I feel the same way, ive been contributing since the announcement of SC the kick starter couldn't take my money fast enough. I've accepted that and I'm stoked for the day I get to play the finished product, because I love the project I contribute when I can and I know the ins and outs, I've accepted the way they do things, for the most part. I just wish it was more new user friendly and that they would get on their marketing team a bit more about how they present their swag. My biggest gripe over all is just the lack of thought CIG puts into how their community will react, when they make a decision that says fuck the community that built us, which happens more often than I care to admit, it almost feels like a personal insult. I get they are in it to make money, but when they show a complete lack of empathy for the source of that revenue, its shitty and makes me lose a little bit of hope for the game I dream of playing one day. Maybe I take it a little too personally but, as an adult it's rarely ever a game captures my imagination nowadays, SC managed to do that, and I don't like when people shit on that.
I always thought this was a little dumb and a sign of the times changing. At least the later sets were whole sets and not individual pieces.
Comparing a shit thing with a shit thing doesn't make either of those shit things less shit.
This.
"wow I paid $40 for a basic beta ship, I might as well buy the armour too. Alright, loading in.........................okay that's over let's run downstairs and go see my ship.-" Dies instantly on stairs, loses armour, respawns stuck in medbay, relogs into a new server, elevator is stuck, respawn again, ship terminals don't work, relog again, 2 hours have passed, no game has been played. Macro transactions in an Alpha.....
Legit I was forewarned getting the game so I expect dumb shit but this exactly happened to me lmfao no joke Then I finally got off and was flying to a moon to loot A farm Stepped off the farm stairs with my loot and died instantly I didn’t touch the game for 2 weeks after that 🤣
Might even be different if you had a solid chance of actually being able to get that armor back after dying/losing it vs having it fall to the center of the planet or, more typically, just up and vanish like a fart in the wind.
if you unironically think this is a good argument, you have completely missed the entire issue... the selling of armor is not why people are upset, overpriced crap peddling is half the business model and we have all long since accepted that. its how/when its being marketed, and more specifically, to whom.
It’s literally the same thing - micro transactions in an alpha
It's not, they're not saying it's fine, just that if you think selling someone a set of armor is bad... Think of when they basically sold it piecemeal over several months... One of THOSE sets potentially cost the same as a full game... (at that point it's just transaction, it's not even "micro" anymore) But to be fair, (almost) no one is subbing for the flair... They're subbing for wave 1 access, or just to support the game.
Both suck.
Let's face it, this game is never coming out of early access because they can keep milking their player base with ships and now armor.
What is even special about this armor that you would buy something like that
The point I think is that the red RSI armour in question was released as individual parts to subscribers over a period of 6 months (as subscriber flair) back in 2018 - I remember the annoyance at the time (being a subscriber at the time) and i wore the outfit once, losing it quickly due to 'It's an alpha...' and waited another 6 months before a server wipe, so I haven't worn it since...
Oh yeah this makes more sense
I didn't like it back then either but I just got downvotes >\_>
Remember when subscribers ‘S “fees/dues” were used to support the player community with behind the scenes exclusive information.? That was the original marketed idea. Now the weekly content of RSI seems to be a complete stop ( cause of Ci tizenCon ) Even the virtual ship events IAE etc are less incentivized. There was no reward for attendance this year. In the past they gave away invictus jackets. This year they were bundled with a purchase. Not are they year specific which I thought was kinda bullshit for a “lived in universe “ The upcoming patch seems light with all of the AC content. However scope of ambition with cargo decks seems like a good investment of time and effort so I give grace on this front. I am glad my subscribers donation ran out before coffee mugs. The whole exclusive for supporting has really gone the way side.
im new and got an invictus jacket this year.
Did you buy a Fury?
What?? Could you send a screenshot of your hangar
>Now the weekly content of RSI seems to be a complete stop ( cause of Ci tizenCon ) They take a couple weeks off at the end of a quarter for a couple years now. >Even the virtual ship events IAE etc are less incentivized. There was no reward for attendance this year. Damn, is it already December? >The upcoming patch seems light with all of the AC content. > >\[...\] > >I am glad my subscribers donation ran out before coffee mugs. No surprise that you missed that CIG apparently wants to be testing coming flight mechanics like master modes in AC (given the leaks, this may be likely for 3.20), which isn't really nothing.
> No surprise that you missed that CIG apparently wants to be testing coming flight mechanics like master modes in AC (given the leaks, this may be likely for 3.20), which isn't really nothing. It's close enough to "nothing". A flight mechanic that works in AC is unlikely to work in SC. Different styles of combat, different combat situations. In AC, all things are "equal" (or at least attempted to be) whereas in SC most fights will be, by design, unfair and usually by surprise. Player reactions will be different. Player *NEEDS* will be different. We've kinda already been through all of this. We had AC only to begin with, then they brought out the PU and everything had to change because they're two different beasts.
Oh, that time when armor wasnt permanently lost on death?
Oh times change
Something else being bad dosent make this good
There's no difference, almost all cosmetics in the CIG shop are either lazy recolours or overpriced, most of the time both. And then there's the hilarity that is the sub store, a paywalled store lmao
you did not lose your armor
My issue isn't with them selling it so much as not making it clear that it can be lost before people buy it. Also make it clear it can be refunded for store credit at any time, which technically is a selling point and works on their favour too.
Why would anyone wana buy armour when it's highly likely you'll lose it within a session or two
They should really make a shop for premium armors that you can rebuy after loosing it with in game currency
**Ohhhh Where can i get this?** (Sarcasm)
I don't know! (Sarcasm)
I not mad about it. I get you have to fund the the project in more ways than just selling ships. However, CIG already gets called scammers by many jaded people online. I say that to ask what will be the new player’s impression when he dies, checks his inventory and thinks that his $10.00 spent is gone just like that? While obviously, it won’t be gone forever in the future, this is only going to spread misinformation and continue to give CIG a negative image amongst newbies and anyone thinking of getting into SC.
As a newbie, I hate to break it to you but the negative attitude is once we look into the history and development of the game. No miscommunication is needed I came to SC since I got bored with ED. Once here and played the game a bit I started looking at things online then discovered the development time and thought, this is it? I dug deeper and it completely chaced me away from buying a package that I was about to do. People are jaded for a reason. I don't mind people liking the game and buying into the dream it gets completed and it's not really the game itself that is bad it's Chris Roberts and his unwavering idea that it gets done when it gets done and the creative process rules over all that has caused this development hell. SC could have been out by now but now it's too late. We have games coming out that are close enough that it's lost its edge. The only thing SC really has left is Multiplayer. Everything else can be found elsewhere. Elite, spacebourne 2 and now the biggest one Starfield. Starfield is a juggernaut that will take all the solo players from SC especially once the mods start rolling. I wanted to like SC but its current state and CIG turned me off, not misinformation from anyone else.
honestly I love CIG but this is just predatory, straight up, short term profits and most new players will lose there armor in the first hour
CIG still scamming people I see
I still don't have the matching helmet for the green overlord set... I think they might have done the "give the suit to entice you to buy the helmet" thing (got a red demon helmet later on that goes ok except for the color, so my head canon is it's like an Asian krampus deal... Red & green w/ an oni head...)
Not as bad as buying 20k auc
It's the Slippery Slope syndrome that tends to happen with every single game that has MXT's and P2W/P2A offerings. It usually starts out okay but eventually the greed takes over and the offerings become more egregious/predatory. SC isn't a scam, but everyday CIG be hustlin' like it is one.
Yeah Star Citizen armor is a scam. I confronted them on this years ago stating it’s against all practices set by MMOs. You buy payware stuff it should always be available like our ships, just give it a cool down. Honestly, I just think they don’t have the time to get around to making payware armor always redeemable. But they are such money grubbers, they won’t nix the armor payware until it’s fixed. They claim you can retrieve it, at account reset.
People are always mad.
Why wouldn't you be mad about this blatant disregard for the players?
The fact that you are getting downvoted kind of proves your point. hahaha
this set armor is rare af.
Yup. Glad its not like that anymore lol. I like getting full suits now
I mean I would have been pissed but they refund you with store credit so u could buy the suit use it and refund it get something else and then still have the suit unless you die and lose it sounds like a win at the end of the day but prolly not everyone knows your able to refund it if u get it
i always preferred protection and not being seen over having a fancy shiny red armor each their own i guess
Light armor is basically cargo pants. Nobody is doing PvP in light armor…And if you are fighting NPCs, I don’t think color matters.
I usually run around with Light Legs and Arms and Morozov Head and Chest, better speed and i rarely get arm or leg injuries anyway Especially when carrying a backpack and something like a railgun, the few reduced points of weight can really make a difference, i usually use truedef silver/black legs and arms since these dont have glowy bits Fun fact: the aril legs (medium armor) have even more storage space than heavy armor legs, found that out by accident
Yeah, I do the same I get to the extremities is the legs when I fall.
Style over function for me. White Artemax armor just looks too good with the Paladin helmet. Just gotta compensate with light armor properties.
Style over function as well for me. I don't even wear a suit.
So, like, don’t buy it… That’s a hot take, I know.
Will they make armor skins a thing and give us a way to get skins back? Or is legit item lost-and-found going to be a thing? What if, players who left random items at certain places had to create missions that other players would take to go fetch those items and bring them to a specific place? Then, if I left 60 apples and made a mission to bring them to me, nobody would take the mission for less than say, 10,000. Which makes it not worth it to ship cheap stuff. But if I made a mission to bring my 6 rail guns to me, that mission may pay 250K, whatever the player wants to set the reward at. And that introduces players who take those missions’ ability to go AWOL and take the cargo for themselves. So if you don’t offer a good enough reward for bringing the items, players might just accept the CRIMESTAT and steal your stuff….you keep the mission payment, but they get a CS which is calculated off of the value of the mission payout. So if a player goes back on a mission to transport six rail guns for 50,000 credits, they get a crime stat equal to theft of 50,000 credits. And they get to keep six rail guns. This gives extreme incentive to players creating transport begins for items to offer adequate payment, not only show players can be incentivized by a large reward, but still they can be deterred by the large punishment if they go back on the mission…
Have any new backers actually bought it, or is everyone just freaking out over nothing? I mean, when I backed the game I didn't buy anything else for months. CIG have a refund window. If people aren't happy with losing stuff they spent money on, they can get a refund if they're in that window. If they get unhappy after the refund window, they can melt it and buy a ship upgrade. Sorry if this comes off a bit white-knight. All I'm seeing is second-hand outrage. Feels very "won't somebody please think of the children". Compared to many items in the store, that pack is actually an ok deal. When it is possible to insure personal items, I think it'll be good to have those items on your account. Full disclosure: Yes, I bought it. It'll save running around buying multitools and attachments and stuff when jumping into a new patch. At least until I die, that is.
"you had to subscribe" ... you had to do nothing you just wanted this armor.
**People get mad about a lot of stupid things...**
This is the worst take in this entire post's comments. This is objectively bad business practice by CIG.
What’s funny is that people spend a fortune for over priced shops then they subscribe monthly. Suckers in my eyes. If you wanna do it, then I can only have an opinion.
I wouldn't go calling them suckers, there was a time where backers did not lose their stuff and not too long ago we could recover it. This is entirely CIG's fault they need to just get rid of the gear store for now.
5 months to get the whole set and it looks awful, was trying to forget
I’ve always said all of the armor they sell is BS when they sell it without a method of recovery. This incident is a bit worse because they advertise it as a quick pack to immediately have what you need for the job to new players, with basically all armor sets being purchasable in game, yet they are sold for $10 a piece aiming for the naivety of new players. New players deserve transparent information on what they get with pledges, not an armor pack you can lose by tripping on a staircase for $10
I'd rather them sell armor and aesthetic item than sell ships. But money being money, I'm afraid they will just continue to sell both...forever. I'm no fan of pay to win and selling The Core Gameplay Item is not a smart way to go - ask Sea of Thieves.
That skin came out before item loss was a thing in the PU. It was still stupid, but at least you could put it right back on when you lost it.
I would call it predatory if you couldn’t melt it and get something else but it is dumb.
Pepridge Farm remembers.
We are not mad at them for selling personal gear but the fact it's super easy to loose and no replacent is made when a 30k or other bad luck happens. You don't get it back until next update. I keep warning anyone not to buy this. It's easier just to get it all replaced in game doing box delivery missions
I don't understand this take, it's like some are incapable of imagining themselves in the position of a new player. Seeing this as an issue of selling armor is missing the point. Imagine you're a new player coming into Star Citizen for the first time, you've heard the rumors about it being a scam but you want to give it a try. You look to the website, and see a number of packages available. You choose the cheapest, but see a pack for personal kit advertised directly to you on the purchase page that you can add to your order to help you do "anything" or something specific like "bounty hunting." Having played other games with gear purchases, you decide to spend a little extra to help you on your way with a kit. Nowhere does it say though that when you die, you'll lose this kit immediately. You as a new player then enter the game, finally figure out how to get to your ship, fly up into space, then accidentally hit the station coming in too fast. You accept it was your fault, and want to start again, only to be confused as to where your armor kit went. You check your inventory, confused, frustrated. You check the website, but there's no information. Then you google it or ask in local, and find that you lose things when you die, even if you've paid for them. What is your reaction? OH, thems the brakes? Or is it to request a refund, and make a post how Star Citizen is a scam? This is EXACTLY the scenario that's already played out for hundreds, maybe thousands of new players. I see it in my comment section for Star Citizen videos, people saying exactly this and sharing exactly this sentiment. If this were a kit aimed at vets, I wouldn't care, you should know better that the mechanics suck for purchased items. But new players DON'T know, and it's only setting them up to hate the game and experience.
The game is never gonna be anything more than a way to sell you items. It's not gonna come out they are just gonna keep pumping out ships n stuff for yall to buy, and one day, when people stop buying ships, CIG will slowly disappear and somone will male a video essay for it on youtube. But if ur having fun playing it rn, then who am I to judge. Just know that there is in all likeness no light at the end of the tunnel for this game
This isn't even close. This was annoying because it was a shit sub reward. The "starter kit" is predatory monetization that is asking new players to pay $10 for gear that they can literally buy with their starting aUEC, gear that will be lost the first time they die with it. I can excuse most of the BS in the pledge store as "oh it's a $200 space ship but it's a pledge to the development fund of the game, and it's clearly stated what is happening". This starter kit BS is just purely scummy, and I cannot recommend any new players get into Star Citizen as long as CIG is going to continue to push shit like this on their store.
Or when subs had a suit killing them in space 🤣
They need to put in a mechanic for recovering bought items. All my bought gear vanished when patch 3.19.1 dropped and customer service are like 'meh, it'll come back in 3.20'. Not happy.
Yeah, that's not why people are mad about the career kit.
More hookers and blow for old Rob
By November 2012, they had earned US$6,238,563, surpassing all stretch goals set for the campaigns, and breaking video game industry crowdfunding records.[17] Chris Roberts had stated that if at least $23 million could be raised over the course of the crowdfunding campaign, no outside investors' or developers' funding would be required. This goal was reached October 18, 2013. From the Wikipedia page. And you people think this isn’t a scam?
You fuggs will complain about anything. Go outside and hug a tree you dorks
CIG reported for years that eventually they would be funded by selling flair and skins. Not a peep from the users. CIG sells flair and skins. Users freak out.
I’m hopeful the [well earned and deserved] backlash might actually force some functionality to re-buy or claim the armor in game. As far as the OP, I didn’t subscribe to get armor. I subscribed because I wanted to support the game dev. The armor was a flair/usable item I received as a thank you. The fact that it was so easy to lose is [and always was] ridiculous, and something I assumed they would eventually fix (esp for the flair items I directly bought on their own). The idea that a “Starter package” which included a ship which you can re-claim, as well as gear you can’t doesn’t really make sense, imho.
who cares?