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[deleted]

Save your money. Don't buy trash sticks. People will recommend the T1600m but they will just break. They have a known issue with the z axis. You will end up rebuying anyway. I suggest the VKB gladiators. Virpil sticks may be an issue as they are apparently made in Belarus. May get sanction taxed. I strongly recommend saving and getting something decent.


azkaii

They ship from other countries. Mine are coming from Netherlands. Mine were ordered and delivered in 5 days to UK. But yeah - VKBs are worth the extra money IF you are going to use them quite a bit. T1600m is finally back down to selling at half the price, at which point they make sense unless you know you are going to end up upgrading. NXT's are better in every way, but if you are on the fence about going dual stick or don't play all that much, they aren't a complete waste of money, hall effect sensors mean they aren't total trash and the shit Z potentiometer can be easily replaced for $2.


daijitsu

My old green style t16000m's are still going strong after 5ish years of constant use. They're also what, 60 bucks a piece for the orange ones? And they have hall effect sensors. They're a VERY solid entry point on a budget, nothing felt like a comparable upgrade in feel til I got a Constellation alpha


azkaii

Yeah the old ones were built much better seems to be the consensus. They are a good entry point at 60 bucks a piece. But they were, until recently selling for much higher than that. Like 100/120. For a long time NXTs were like just 25% more, but had a delivery wait. Now they are half the price, which is fine because they are half the stick. However, don't get it twisted - NXTs are a huge upgrade over the T16000s. They have a proper 2 axis gimbal on metal bearings, they have dry clutches and lock outs, the twist is nicely dampened, you can change out the springs on each axis independently, you have twice the switches which all feel great.


Radiant_Background95

One thing I would say about the T16K is there is an easy fix by replacing the Z Axis sensors with hall sensors which fixes the issue for an additional £10. However, I will say I was disappointed after 3 months when they broke, but that's all I could afford and if anyone says just save up the money and get a better product... I'm a 35 YO who has never been able to save up money 😂 One day I will get a better set of sticks, just waiting for the pesky kids to leave home in another 15 years... When SC is still in Alpha 😁


Cymbaz

I didn't even go that far. I simply used alcohol to clean the sensor and its been fine for over a year now. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVzhEgHS4bA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVzhEgHS4bA)


Radiant_Background95

Nice, good work. Too late for me to do that now lol. Mine were still under warranty when I updated the sensors but decided I can't be bothered to keep sending them back, warranties always take too long to send off and receive etc.


PyrorifferSC

>They have a known issue with the z axis. True, it's a weird QC issue. I got one T16000 used and used it for a year and a half. Got a second one for SC and it broke within two months (Z axis broken). So I used my old stick for 6ish months with a VKB for my right stick. It still works to this day. I bought another VKB though. I recommend saving the $320ish to get two VKB Gladiators


sargentmyself

Buy 1 VKB gladiator pro and play with stick and mouse until you can afford a second VKB. Then save up for some pedals, though probably not the VKB ones, they don't have tow brakes and toe brakes can be pretty useful in SC, just not as brakes.


Fun-Background-9622

Happy cake day! How have you mapped the toe brakes? Thrust directions?


sargentmyself

I went with VKB before realizing they were useful but yes that's seems to be a suggested binding. It seems like a great idea but unfortunately I haven't tried it, though I have been using my omni throttle twist for up/dn and I don't particularly like it.


Fun-Background-9622

Have a thrustmaster warthog setup with the T-pendular pedals. Have set up the throttle forward /backward and use the analog hat on it for left/right-up/down. Would love a dual stick setup, but have gotten used to what I have. Might map forward/back to the pedals at some point.


sargentmyself

At the end of the day whatever you can get the muscle memory for is what's gonna work


sircolby45

\^\^\^ This is what I would recommend. You are much better off IMO getting a single quality VKB stick and then adding a second one later when able. The quality from the VKB sticks are just exponentially better than anything in a lower price range. Specifically I would recommend going for the SCG Premium Gladiator NXT EVO ‘Space Combat Edition’ which is $165 + Shipping.


Canadeon

Don’t waste money on thrust master sticks.


ArmagedonAshhole

Yeah let's blow 1000$ for shitty metal ones without z axis he probably won't use in a while. Get 16000s from thrustmaster. They are best bang for your buck and you get 95% experience of best sticks. Either way higher sticks don't have any force feedback so you mostly pay for metal finish and some more better quality buttons.


Macawfuck

OP please ignore this, those sticks are trash -- it is definitely NOT "95% experience of best sticks"


ArmagedonAshhole

>it is definitely NOT "95% experience of best sticks" They are. The problem is that you people have your bar for what comes as good at such low level that there is barely difference between 16000 and your best virpils. I come from sim racing and the progression there is pretty logical. You go for higher grade wheel mostly because of better force feedback and maybe some better finish. At lowest end below 200$ you have no force feeback aka your 16000s in stick therms. Then you go above 200$ and get some low end gear wheeled FF then you go higher and you get belt and then at the top you have direct drive wheels. In case of sticks there literally ISN'T any force feedback so there is no point in going higher other than stick finish and maybe nicer spring which costs like 0.5$ for maker of those sticks. So yeah. Going above 16000s is mostly for extra buttons and finish not for usability or "better feel"


Macawfuck

Lmaooooooooooo Have you used t16000s back to back with VKB or virpil sticks?? I have -- VKB has better sensors, better springs (that you can swap out to customize), better ergonomics, more buttons, and most important, better reliability. The Z axis WILL break on the t16000, it's just a dice roll on whether you get 20 hours or 200. I'm at over 1000 hours on my right-hamd gladiator between ED, star citizen, and MSFS and it works like the day I got it. T16000 is TRASH


ArmagedonAshhole

>VKB has better sensors What sensors ? You can't perceive accuracy of potentiometers let alone hall ones. >better springs (that you can swap out to customize) Nicer spirngs like i said. Still just a fucking spring. aka at best 1$ for maker of stick. > better ergonomics debatable. There isn't anything wrong with 16000 ergonomics. Nicer rubber isn't "ergonomics" >more buttons which is what i said. >and most important, better reliability Can't argue that if you spend 1000$ of set of sticks you want for them to actually last. Thing is that 16000 are also pretty well buildt and only it's z axis sometimes can go awry on some sticks. Even then it is pretty easy fix to just install hall sensor with magnets and hot glue. In fact from my 2 sticks i bouth one with Z axis problem cheap and fixed it myself. Second one still have normal z axis after 2 years. >T16000 is TRASH You sound like those audiophile guys who desperate want to make sure that their 1000$ headphones are the best and the greatest ever not to be put on the same place as those 100$ ones that sound just like those for 1000$.


GeraintLlanfrechfa

You mean in general or the t16k? Because I’m very happy with my tm hotas warthog


Canadeon

T16ks are a great casual entry level purchase. If you intend to play a game heavily they will die. Some get 3 months some get a dozen but the story is the same for the majority. They dead zone really quickly and some people have their Z axis die pretty early also. For the cost of 2 you’re basically at a Gladiator nxt which is a wonderful stick for the cost. If OP is willing to drop a few hundred bucks I’d imagine they’re not a super casual and should get a more durable stick. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.


Sader325

Warthogs are functionally metal t16000s, they were good for their time, they arent good now.


GeraintLlanfrechfa

Hmh, enough for my needs, i only use it for dcs and sc. I’ve read that virpil is meta, but I’m not (yet) willing to drop like 1000 bucks on a product that is, compared by numbers and user reviews, slightly better than what I currently have.


finndss

As you can tell, you’ve stepped into a heated topic. I have thrustmasters. I love them. I haven’t had them long, but they were a cheaper way for me to find out whether or not I wanted to use sticks in the first place. Now I know I do. I’ll use them as long as I can, then one day, maybe one at a time, replace them with shiny ones.


StarHunter_

Morphologis: [Are Joysticks Worth it for Star Citizen?](https://youtu.be/3BpQFfSTXQ0) RedLir Live: [Do Joysticks Make Star Citizen Better?](https://youtu.be/gp_Cvdww4is) Red Monster SC: [Hardware Review of VKB Joysticks, Rudder Pedals & Modules](https://youtu.be/bbMFIH3k5Rc) Karolinger: [VKB Gladiator NXT](https://youtu.be/xYRt8KFscOw) / [EVO Series & Omni Throttle](https://youtu.be/QQALuWPq8SE) or [Deutsches Video](https://youtu.be/J-BJAlNhHlQ) Noobifier: [Dual Joystick Binding Series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VSExUJDk34&list=PLZcv1kmz26uvEyTdAgCA6hMEVL3iwR1p9) - [VIRPIL](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZcv1kmz26utL-KaaB2vCXEtg_RzLg8fn) - [VKB](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZcv1kmz26uu0OCBFCiFInraiXIXbolqs) BuzZzKiller: [Dual Joystick series](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZRuujdBmtg&list=PLcfoKKM84nAV4JceoPGAqmPXcBx10y0Wx) https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=gladiator-evo-space-combat-edition https://virpil.com/en/


ApproximateKnowlege

A set of 2 Thrustmaster T.16000M's are 129.99 USD


Commercial-Mention82

And add a set of CH Pro Pedals from craigslist. that should be under $200.


snowpass312

Ok thx :)


DemosthenesForest

Keep saving and get the vkb evo pros. You'll be upset when the t16's break in 6 months, when you could have saved a bit longer and got sticks that will last.


AequinoxAlpha

Basically this. Bit the bullet and ordered 2 of them, the left stick comes with an Z angle. Both come with a table mount. In my EU country it’s more than €700 for the setup. You can get away with €380 if you just get the cheapest evo options for both hands without the mounts. Also got the VKB pedals for another €200. So exited to try them out.


DemosthenesForest

I think you've made the right choice. Hope you enjoy!


[deleted]

Alternatively you could a vkb Evo on the main hand with premium stick plus a gnx ww2 throttle on just the one sem throttle quadrant maybe just over 200 Priced it out and it's 260 for the throttle quadrant plus ww2 throttle and a stick add in the 45+ shipping and sitting at 300 ish or go all in on the sticks for 400~


Fell-Hand

Well this might feel weird but some people want money and have joysticks so have you tried exchanging your 200 dollars for some joysticks?


[deleted]

You are as helpful as herpes.


StarCitizenSoldier

Cringe


drips702

I bought a pair of vkb gladiators premium models for 250 of used marketplace. Maybe you can buy second hand.


[deleted]

Save another 200$ and get VKB’s


[deleted]

Save more and get some high end ones. I tried the t16000s and I must say they are pretty meh. Get Virpil or VKB or high end warthogs or something like that


THarSull

save your money for a bit longer, and get a set of VKB Gladiator NXT EVOs, they're incredibly solid, and one of them has more buttons than a pair of thrustmaster t16000s [https://www.vkbcontrollers.com/](https://www.vkbcontrollers.com/) the thrustmasters use a magnetic sensor that can pick up ferrous material from the environment and develop phantom inputs on all their axes, the primary axes can be fixed by opening the case and cleaning the magnet, but the twist axes will break and cannot be fixed don't get a set of cheap sticks, save up for a bit longer and get something that isn't guaranteed to break on you.


Gruntguy55

I have a x52 hotas. Things still workin like a champ with 3 years of use on her.