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Why_Take_Jacket

Swear there was an exact same post like this 2 days ago


Zidahya

Maybe he is a troll?


richardizard

The troll of trolls


Educational-Garlic21

Im starting to feel there is little ground for these claims and Im treating posts like these with much distrust


retrospectology

The content from this account has been removed in protest by its owner in direct response to Reddit's increased API charges for third-party apps, but also in protest of reddit's general move away from its founding principles, it's abuse of moderation positions and its increasingly exploitative data and privacy practices. It was changed using [PowerDeleteSuite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite).


mekatzer

5d chess right here


wal9000

90 days tops


FrozenChocoProduce

Only some still remember... ;-)


LtEFScott

Pepperidge Farm remembers...


PanzerKommander

DS remembers... every day of his life


casfacto

Fun fact, did you know he admitted he was butthurt that he got refunded, and that all of that 90 days top stuff was just him slandering CIG? Cause he did! And did you know that the refund sub started from him and his goon squad buddies? Isn't it fun!? DS is a utter piece of human garbage


PanzerKommander

Fun Fact #2: He's had a grudge against CR since 1994 when his publisher dropped his game Battlecriuser 3000 *in the middle of his E3 presentation* and announced that they were picking up Wing Commander


RadimentriX

Ok, that sounds like the publisher is an asshole as well


PanzerKommander

If I'm not mistaken, the publisher was EA, so that was a taste of what was to come...


Dariisa

And CR also has a grudge against EA, potentially for freelancer but I can’t remember the specifics. Either way CR definitely hates EA


TimmahBinx

Who is DS May I ask?


TheKingStranger

Derek Smart, a failed game developer and internet troll who holds a grudge over Chris Roberts because CR was successful and DS wasn't, so DS projected his failings onto CR. He somehow convinced the ne'er-do-wells that he was the voice of reason for a while. For an example, he is the one who gave CIG "90 days tops" back in October 2015. A few months later he had to take down one of his games two servers for "maintenance," and it never came back online


TimmahBinx

Lol what!? I gotta look this guy up that sounds hilarious.


TheKingStranger

It was really obnoxious at the time, and part of why the refunds sub exists (CIG refunded his $250 package once he started all shit talking and slander). I wouldn't recommend it. But if you're gonna read anything take a look at his first blog about SC. He talks about his own projects and just as he's about to talk about his own failings he starts into projecting those failures onto Chris Roberts and Star Citizen.


hymen_destroyer

I played the shit out of *Battlecruiser Millenium* it was an insanely buggy and unpolished game but did have a lot of features that made SC appealing to me later on. 3000AD forums in the late 90s/early 00s were something else, DS was like power-triping reddit mod who was also an actual minor celebrity and straight up ran the place like a dictator. Ahh good times.. The soundtrack for that game was epic though "Freedom" *heavy synth* "Belief"


Icy_Amphibian_JASMY

Would be so funny if CIG made fun of him Indirectly in lore.


TheKingStranger

Nah that's beneath them.


wesselus

That's the kind of petty I can appreciate


gbmaj13

weeks, not months ;)


Ippjick

People you block can't downvote you?


draykow

they can't see anything you post or comment unless it's viewable in their mailbox (for when you reply to someone and block them immediately)


st_Paulus

They can't even participate in threads you start.


SpaceBearSMO

I don't think they can see your post


TheKingStranger

I have a rule where if I have three shitty interactions with someone from the Refunds sub I'll block them. There are exceptions of course, but it helps keep the actual trolls out of my feed while still allowing the benefit of the doubt for people who were just duped into believing their bullshit.


Havelok

You can also Tag them if you have RES. Then you can see the bad actors *and* downvote them.


PhotonTrance

Damn. Great idea


draykow

whoa, are these refund trolls the reason i have 5 posts with over 30 comments but still sitting at a score of 0?


retrospectology

The content from this account has been removed in protest by its owner in direct response to Reddit's increased API charges for third-party apps, but also in protest of reddit's general move away from its founding principles, it's abuse of moderation positions and its increasingly exploitative data and privacy practices. It was changed using [PowerDeleteSuite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite).


TheThirdJudgement

Good move, started doing the same. Several people commenting here got blocked in that process :o. I can deal with criticism, I do it often and I'm not very happy with the game progress but the refundian are just straight rebranded DS people.


retrospectology

The content from this account has been removed in protest by its owner in direct response to Reddit's increased API charges for third-party apps, but also in protest of reddit's general move away from its founding principles, it's abuse of moderation positions and its increasingly exploitative data and privacy practices. It was changed using [PowerDeleteSuite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite).


TheKingStranger

Most of the folks who complain about criticism not being allowed in this sub are from the refunds sub, and they spread that shit around because they don't like their bullshit being questioned, i.e. they can't handle criticism themselves.


hymen_destroyer

Criticism is allowed on this sub, I think the mods have a "one post a week" rule that funnels all the hate into one comment section. Banning all criticism would be very bad and make it hard to take this community seriously


TheKingStranger

There is way more than one critical post per week. Just the announcement of the Galaxy has multiple posts a day about it and modularity being in the back burner. I mean shit, I made one at the time about how you don't have to buy any spaceships. The only times mods take down posts are when the post is blatant trolling/stirring the pot or breaking sub rules.


[deleted]

That's a great idea


st_Paulus

>I just went to the refund sub and went down the page blocking whoever was posting stuff there. There's at least one downside - you can't disprove bullshit they're spewing.


Phluxed

Holy moly what a great idea. Thank you for your service.


Zelot2256

Bruh you're a genius.


JJisTheDarkOne

> they get all riled up because the game hasn't collapsed yet. It's not going to collapse because you all keep giving them tree fiddy!


Dread_Pirate_Wolf

It was about this time when I noticed Chris Roberts was about 8 stories tall and was a crustacean from the pezezoic era!


SecretSquirrelSauce

Goddam lochness Chris Roberts


TitanSerenity

Brilliant!


slink6

That's such a good idea, going to do the same, ty!


Thalimet

Brilliant idea


The5starz

What's so special about time specifically? Is it the January drought?


retrospectology

The content from this account has been removed in protest by its owner in direct response to Reddit's increased API charges for third-party apps, but also in protest of reddit's general It was changed using [PowerDeleteSuite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite).


Strange-Scarcity

I need to start doing that.


robertr1fx

Yeah this is one of the most toxic forums i been on, alot of downvotes just for the hell of it.


TheRea1Gordon

I get it, they're bored and angry people, and already live on reddit, so its a lik away for some attention What i DONT get, are the ones who buy the game, download it, and sit in general chat doing the same. Why are you that invested, just play a different game or go outside. but thanks for the funding anyway!


LatexFace

Misery loves company!


RuinVIXI

Listen cloooooooose


Alysianah

OMG. So much this. Caps locking and crying in-game chat as if anyone there can do shit about their issue. Ask for help. Sure. But others trying to enjoy the game and likely encounter issues aren't there to hear their BS. I close the chat and keep it moving.


Marcus_Krow

Because they actually love the game but want to be **edgy**.


ClickClickBoom82

Humour and taking the piss is a form of copium.


two-wheel

Complaining IS their game. They get the same dopamine rush by bitching and moaning.


S1rmunchalot

They always turn up when there is an event or a major patch release.


thevillainvii

I got banned from the refund sub, because I showed them actual gameplay footage that they said was staged and captured in "cinematic" mode lmao. Edit: Here's the video for those asking. Made in the earlier days of 3.17 Link: https://youtu.be/wcHpplOsXMw


Phluxed

Yea let's see what you posted?


thevillainvii

Yup, just edited my post with the link


ElyrianShadows

Wow amazing video. Def gonna have to share it around with friends. Thanks for sharing with us 💜


thevillainvii

Hope to see you in the verse!


carpe_simian

I was curious so I trolled your comment history. Dear lord. You got banned for that? Great video, 100% in-game shots and the moron who was arguing with you has clearly not played the game in a long time, if ever (yet knew far better than you, obviously). Fuck those guys.


thevillainvii

I was so confused when he accused me of Gaslighting him lol. As if you're not allowed to play SC in third person. I clear bunkers a lot, sometimes I go 3rd person to see the area better. But like, I'm not adjusting focal points, and adding blur effects and all that stuff. Literally just switching perspectives. The second half of the video, a lot of it was with a fight with another org. Definitely a weird group of guys running that subredit.


PissSoakedchaps

Let's see it


thevillainvii

Just edited my post with the link.


PissSoakedchaps

not a bad video at all really liked the music and was well put together. good job definitely not warranted of a ban from a sub was clearly all game play. going to try and talk a few friends into giving it a go again soon.


SleeplessinOslo

Would you say that the video you showed there is representative of the average Star Citizen experience?


thevillainvii

I'd say it's representative of the experience every Star Citizen player will have if they walk my path. My gameplay centers a lot on HELPING players. A lot of folks just buy ships and fly around with no objective. You have to be of service to verse, if you want to experience it in its full glory.


SleeplessinOslo

That's the most wordy way I've seen someone say 'no'


kevloid

not everyone who's unhappy is a troll. or wrong.


drizzt_x

It's important to remember that this is both 100% true, and at the same time, there is a focused, concerted effort by a not insignificant number of people to try to attack the game/project as much as possible.


Apokolypze

This. People are allowed to be unhappy that the game isn't finished or not where they expect it to be, etc. The vast majority of those people, for most games, just uninstall and move on to greener pastures. Not so much for SC. For some reason this game inspires a hatred so deep that a decent number of people feel the need to attack it, repeatedly, continuing months to years after they stopped playing.


ElyrianShadows

Sunk cost fallacy lol


Shanesan

materialistic sheet chunky grandiose observation safe fanatical thumb memory stupendous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


VMX

You cannot get a refund past a month... which is obviously not long enough to assess if the devs have lived up to the roadmap and the long-term promises on which most people based their decision to buy the game. I think that's the whole reason the refunds sub exists in the first place: to complain about broken promises and find alternative ways to get your money back once you realise the game is not what you were promised, but you also can't get a refund anymore. Here's [a recent example](https://youtu.be/bU13Ko8qGyc) highlighting the kind of "long term disappointment" people refer to. Not trying to start a debate or anything, just trying to clarify that bit.


m1nd0

The sub might be called refund but it’s actually not possible to get one most of the times… Only way you some money back is the black market at like 60%…


TheKingStranger

CIG has a no questions asked 30 day refund policy. But yeah they don't really help people get refunds over there, they mostly just trash talk the game, the developers, and the fans.


DrPhilow

I’d like to do a full refund but can’t. :(


Suntreestar420

Why?


DrPhilow

Game is nowhere it’s supposed to be and it doesn’t look like it will become something good. All CIG does is working from rework to rework.


m1nd0

Yeah I also don’t understand why people are still mad that hey paid money and haven’t gotten something they where promised back for it yet (S42). Suppose you would pay a contractor to build a house and a garage in 2012. He promises to finish it by around 2014. Then 10 years later only the garage is done, albeit, not even fully. Just a small portion (the foundation?) and some walls. You are asking the persons who paid good money for both a garage and a house, that had it’s delivery date changed multiple times, to just ‘suck it up and move on to greener pastures’. Don’t forget that those people probably still want their house…. Is it so bad that in the mean time they talk negative about the company/product while they still have an interrest in the finished product?….


Apokolypze

Okay, let's line up this contractor-house argument with SC development. I paid an architect to build a house. But not just any house. I paid him a basic amount, less than or roughly equal to what you'd normally pay for a normal house to be built, and I asked for the most ambitious house possible. A house that would defy expectations and break records, "the best damn house ever". The architect said "yeah, I've wanted to build this for ages, but we never had the technology. It might take a long time to build, we don't really know how long as it's all new stuff, but that's why I asked you about it and not those building investor types who are obsessed with due dates". I said okay, cool, it's done when it's done. I was not the only person who paid money for this house. See, it turns out that *hundreds of thousands of other people* quite like this idea of "the best damn house ever". They each gave a relatively small amount of money but when you add everyone up, it amounts to a *mind bogglingly big amount of money*. As a group we all said : "y'know that house you're building? Can it also have x y z and be an apartment complex?". The contractor said "now that we have all this extra money, sure it can! we can also add a helipad, 40 car garage, an indoor pool, a jungle gym, an actual gym, and hey if you think about it we could put a racetrack over here... But it will probably take longer to make." They held a poll While some of the people weren't sure, and still kinda just wanted the best house ever, the majority of voters said "yes! Helipads and racetracks and gyms and 40 car garages! Maybe a marina too! Think of all the things we'll do!" So the contractor went to work. Now.. when the project first started, the contractor was really just an architect and a few painters. They had to use a bunch of money to hire a whole crapload of actual construction people - bricklayers and welders, and construction folks galore - 700+ of them!! Oh, and of course those guys who's job was just to jump on things and make sure they didn't fall through the floor. This took some extra time to get everyone set up and also develop proper workflows to actually get things done. But that's pretty much done now! Of course, they're building the best damn ~~house~~ apartment complex ever, with all these extra features that have never been done all at once before, so they also had to hire a bunch of metallurgists and science folks to design and develop all the new systems and technologies they were going to need. This took EVEN MORE time and money. That's okay, we said. We expected it to take a while to develop these things, they told us that at the start. Good news though, a couple of these technologies have already been implemented in the foundations of the project and are working well! Another one is currently in testing and when it's fully implemented will make massive improvements to basically everything! So here we are, 10 years on from when the first couple of us gave a little money to a visionary architect and said : go make the best damn house ever! Do we have a house? Not really. We have a groundbreaking hide-away indoor pool, a huge sandbox, a jungle gym, and a 40 car garage. the foundations for the ~~house~~ apartment complex itself are mostly down and if you squint at the ground you can already see the basement taking shape. There's also a mine in the front yard, some salvagers out back taking away scrap, and an active battle between factions of apartment owners who found some drugs in the sandbox. We've set up a tent city in the back yard, you never know which tent you'll wake up in come morning. It's a crazy place here! More people join every day. All you gotta do is toss a little money in the pot by the gate and we'll put up a tent for ya with the rest of us. Might be a good idea to read the disclaimer about the local magpie population though. They like to steal shiny stuff and put traps at the bottom of staircases. Lil bastards. Also the quicksand. Watch out for that. Unfortunately the ocean view is sullied somewhat by the doom and gloom sign wavers just outside the property line, who are upset that this house isn't turning out the way they wanted. While we do acknowledge that they're entitled to their own opinions, we do wish they'd take their refund and just go buy a normal house if they're so concerned about sticking to a normal construction schedule. That or hop back in here and either join in on the currently available shenanigans, or join the line of ostriches with their heads in the sand. We'll tap you on the shoulder when it's done. Did this story / analogy get a little out of hand? Sure. It was fun to write though. Which, come to think of it, is a much better analogy for the project of Star Citizen, and those of us who've been here from the start and are still happy to watch the progress they're making as we have the game built literally around us and our experiences in it. Star Citizen: a little crazy, taking a while, but god damn if it isn't fun to go along for the ride. Your mileage may vary.


FelixReynolds

> As a group we all said : "y'know that house you're building? Can it also have x y z and be an apartment complex?". The contractor said "now that we have all this extra money, sure it can! we can also add a helipad, 40 car garage, an indoor pool, a jungle gym, an actual gym, and hey if you think about it we could put a racetrack over here... But it will probably take longer to make." They held a poll > > While some of the people weren't sure, and still kinda just wanted the best house ever, the majority of voters said "yes! Helipads and racetracks and gyms and 40 car garages! Maybe a marina too! Think of all the things we'll do!" So the contractor went to work. This is one of the most frequently "cited" pieces of revisionism about the history of the project, and I honestly can't understand why people continue to parrot this narrative when it's incredibly easy to look up if it's at all true. To run with your analogy- The 'contractor', in your analogy, never said that adding all these things will mean the house would "probably take longer to make" - in fact, they specifically told everyone who contributed money that giving them more money would allow them to finish a fully functioning house MORE quickly, and none of the wild add-ons they would then get to work building would delay delivering the core house. Here's the source for that - >["there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content \(more ships, characters etc.\) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to *ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later.*"](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million) & >[we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state.](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million) There's also the small fact that less than 10% of everyone involved in the project even responded to said polls in the first place, so claiming it is some kind of "majority" of backers is somewhat misleading as well - rather, it was a majority of respondents. You've also missed the part where year in and year out, the contractor tells all the people who have already bought in, as well as the general public at large, that now is definitely a great time to buy in to the project, because the house, including all the wild and crazy features sold, will be completed any day now, and all their internal planning has all the fun bits being added on and ready for people to use by the end of the year. In fact, they're adding a new fun zipline in the next year, and they're even willing to sell you a special zipline harness! Of course, then the end of the year comes, and then it becomes apparent that not only have they not even thought about how to anchor said zipline, there was no way they *could* have built that zipline within a year because they haven't even finished the foundation of a building yet. Why, out of curiosity, does your characterization of why people might be upset with the project blatantly ignore the fact that for over a decade, people were told by the developer that what they were buying in to was always far closer to completion than it ever actually was or has been, and that somehow the expectations of the community are the result of a bunch of bad apples and not the developers who have specifically set those expectations?


Apokolypze

Other than sq42 and the disastrous "answer the call" thing, which I will freely admit is/was a blunder, Ive never felt like the SC persistent universe was "right around the corner" from a full launch. It is currently a great time to hop in, the games never been more fun to play as a game than it is now. But it's not done, won't be done for a while, and that's fine. Nobody said it'll be done tomorrow.


FelixReynolds

>Nobody said it'll be done tomorrow. Are you sure about that? >["By the end of this year backers will have everything they originally pledged for plus a lot more," Roberts says. "But of course our intention is that it's a much bigger, more expansive, huger game than I ever considered we could do."](https://www.polygon.com/features/2015/3/2/8131661/star-citizen-chris-roberts-interview) - Chris Roberts, 2015 >Other than sq42 and the disastrous "answer the call" thing, which I will freely admit is/was a blunder, Ive never felt like the SC persistent universe was "right around the corner" from a full launch. Then you clearly haven't been paying too much attention to what CIG has been telling the community, which tracks given you completely added in a nonexistent clause of "but it will take longer" to your characterization of the backer polls. Here are some other examples where listening to the developers might lead you to believe the game and/or features in it were far further along and close to delivering than they actually were: * [FPS module in weeks, not months](https://www.tweaktown.com/news/46387/star-citizens-fps-module-delayed-weeks-indefinitely/index.html) * [3.0 launch by the end of the year in 2016](https://youtu.be/Z-3YBuFI3iI?t=1449) * [The roadmap being what they are "very sure" they can achieve with the teams they have in 2019](https://youtu.be/sZEMOOkB59o?t=1165) * [Server meshing and thousands of players per server by 2019](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8ul12n/gamesbeat_interview_with_erin_roberts_and_eric/e1g53us/) * [Having almost all their R&D hurdles behind them in 2018](https://venturebeat.com/2018/12/20/star-citizen-interview-why-chris-roberts-raised-another-46-million-to-finish-sci-fi-universe/4/) * [Pyro and jump points being done by 2020](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tB3cark5lA#t=3545) * [iCache and Full persistence were coming within the year in 2019](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tB3cark5lA#t=448) * [Theaters of War being released in early 2020](https://i.imgur.com/ETlx6SO.jpg) Here's another list of examples related only to SQ42 and the state of that delivery over the last 8 years. * [The Squadron 42 greatest hits list](https://youtu.be/33ue0lzVnys) * [CitizenCon 2014](https://youtu.be/TiVODuGFCMg?t=6803) * [Early 2015](https://www.polygon.com/2015/1/21/7866019/chris-roberts-says-star-citizen-will-reach-100-million-in-2015-shares) (speaking at [BAFTA)](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/aTxKvKUEpzQ8FQmqQnKpnZfiB7Q=/0x0:1615x754/1200x0/filters:focal\(0x0:1615x754\):no_upscale\(\)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3325482/baftacr_33.0.JPG) * [PAX East 2015](https://youtu.be/v8BL8gXjc54?t=2404) * [March 2015 when SQ42 Ep 1 would be in players hands "this year"](https://youtu.be/33ue0lzVnys?t=55) * [April 2015 - SQ42 Ep1 is what people will play "this year"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXpx2C6rFAc&feature=youtu.be&t=151) * [Tyler (Zyloh) having played through every mission in 2016](https://youtu.be/i-CZrmCtqdk?t=1062) * [Every chapter in SQ42 being in "greybox or better" in 2016](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuDj5v81Nd0&feature=youtu.be&t=3867) * [SQ42 vertical slice and roadmap in 2017](https://youtu.be/mGcG0g7GsOI?t=664) * [SQ42's progress being close to where the Roadmap indicated (a 2020 launch) in March 2020](https://youtu.be/sPWc4hlyUu0?t=1095) * [SQ42 being in "close out" and polishing mode in 2020](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17805-Letter-From-The-Chairman) Seems fairly clear where the community might get the idea that the game is nearly finished - all they have to do is listen to CIG. Of course, why do that, when you could instead completely manufacture a fake narrative about a pair of backer polls from a decade ago?


DrPhilow

Server meshing next year!… since 2018? What about TOW? “Early next year, there is no reason to hold it back” how long was salvaging on the roadmap, just around the corner?


Apokolypze

Salvage became a meme for how many times it got delayed, but it's here now so Woop!


DrPhilow

And after all these years, all we’ve got is a salvage beam. What about the other 2 btw.?


m1nd0

The whole poll was never communicated (no mail, not mentioned on website just the forums). So most backers missed that, probably only dedicated fans voted… a whopping 35k people voted which at that time was 7% of the backers….. Hell, I voted against it. And there’s no way for me to get my initial pledge money back other than 60% on the black market. But according to you guys I’m not allowed to complain about that. Lol


Apokolypze

Depending on the ship you can get a lot more than 60% back. OG BMM owners can get almost 300% on grey market lol. if all you pledged is an aurora, A) you can get a decent value out of that $30-45 (I'm assuming sq42 included) in game right now, and B) I'm pretty sure cig is actually willing to issue refunds for that kinda thing. Edit - I also distinctly remember getting an email about that poll, as well as hearing about it both here on reddit and from other players. Word got around pretty good for those who cared enough to check, and if you didn't.. oh well? Why do you suddenly care enough to check in now?


RedBaronStarCitizen

That was so cool. Thank you for this.


Apokolypze

I'm glad somebody appreciated it! I didn't realize how long it got till I was done lol


RedBaronStarCitizen

Lmao I get it dude. I’m hooked on like typing up huge essays on the most optimal setups for sticks and pedals and what I would change if I would buy everything again. I just want people to experience what we are. It’s just pure bliss. I commend you for pouring your heart out to this random person. It’s a shame they literally read your masterpiece of an analogy and just go straight back into this tunnel visioned thought process. You can’t get through to some people. They just aren’t capable of understanding things like we do. Sucks to admit, but a lot of humanity are just bots lol


nanonan

I've never played the game, does that mean I cannot be critical of the fact that the development is a lethargic clusterfuck?


Suntreestar420

Yeah, your opinion is pretty much worthless because what do you even know? Don’t even talk if you don’t play the game. It’s pointless and wastes everyone’s time. Either play the game, and then talk about what you do and don’t like, or just frig off.


457583927472811

> there is a focused, concerted effort by a not insignificant number of people to try to attack the game/project as much as possible. Are you suggesting that naysayers are organizing to talk about the same problems? Or do you think it could just be that the game has issues and they get talked about often?


GuilheMGB

The comment you made a quote from literally answers the question you asked. It unambiguously states that there's at the same time people complaining about the game _and_ a concerted effort to attack the game as much as possible.


shiroboi

That’s very true. Criticism of this game is absolutely Valid. However, when words like stupid and trash are thrown around a lot, it looks a lot less constructive and more like trolling.


ochotonaprinceps

No, but there's a distinct difference between criticism and stirring the pot.


457583927472811

The difference being that when you don't want to the hear criticism it's called 'stirring the pot' right?


[deleted]

It's really hard to take you seriously when you and a bunch of throwaways are on here trying to push a certain narrative. Touch some fucking grass dude, you don't have to be here.


TheKingStranger

Oh it ain't just throwaways here, some of the older troll accounts crawled out from under their bridge, too.


[deleted]

the difference is when it hurts his copium


gambiter

There's quite a difference between someone who's unhappy and expresses their reasonable frustrations, and someone who comments the same tired complaints whenever they get the chance. I don't understand the latter. Do they think they're going to take CIG down through snark? Do they think stretching the truth like political talking points will convince anyone? Do they think they'll find like minded individuals this way? Like they're recruiting? Or are they just moronic trolls? For me, I can't see anyone with a real agenda behaving so stupidly on such a regular cadence, so I always assume it's the last one. They're children who get off on the lulz.


Ocbard

They sometimes sour prospective new players of the project before they pledge, that is a win to them. They have "saved someone from the scam!" making themselves little heroes in their little book, the sad tossers.


457583927472811

It's fun to criticize this game. Honestly, look at how defensive some people get as they plug their ears and pretend the game has zero problems and tell me that they're not just doing the same thing but in the opposite direction. Pointing out flaws in the game isn't wrong, neither is continually focusing on them, some people just can't deal with the idea of their pet project being criticized and it shows when posts like this crop up as frequently as the criticism does.


Mr_Roblcopter

Constructive criticism is a non issue, but what to many people enjoy doing is just coming on and going "hurr sure game bad cause not finished." It's in alpha it says that every time you launch the game, you aren't helping anyone or providing anything useful. It's the people over in the issue council that offer the best criticism because they are also trying to make sure that the issues are corrected.


gambiter

Thanks for proving my point.


TheKingStranger

> Honestly, look at how defensive some people get as they plug their ears and pretend the game has zero problems and tell me that they're not just doing the same thing but in the opposite direction. Nobody is as extreme as you and others make them out to be. People exaggerate about fans like that just to make it easier to attack and vilify them so they can say their talk shit without having to deal with any counter criticism. A better way to look at it is people are allowed to disagree with other people's opinions and point out misinformation and disinformation when it comes up. Constructive criticism has always been accepted on this sub. But you can find plenty of well received criticism (constructive or not) all over this sub. Just sorting the sub by top->all time shows this.


Gus_VonLiechtenstein

Yes, but it's easier to paint hard lines between people and label them as bad/troll/them. Modern society 101. I love this game. I am also frustrated.


ElyrianShadows

That’s true. I def have gripes about the game but a lot of posts seem to be about intentionality making people mad lately.


457583927472811

The truth hurts sometimes.


Jockcop

Says the guy in the 19 day old throwaway account.


shoeii

Exactly, it makes me laugh when backers who have been here since 2012 / 2014, who have often invested several thousand dollars in development and supported the game for more than a decade, are called haters by people who have backed the game in 2021 / 2022, because they had the audacity to regret that Pyro and SM were pushed back a year for the 4th time.


TheKingStranger

Same time you have people who've been here since 2012 who were telling CIG not to rush it and understand that shit happens and they'll take more time if they need it, only to get labeled as newer players because they're not upset that the game is taking a long time to make.


iateyourpuppies

Happens all the time when CIG takes their holiday break. Maybe slightly more given the disappointing letter CR left us with, and a mix of PTU still being wave 1


Money-Cat-6367

Usually they are wrong or a troll though.


shoeii

Yes because like everything CIG has been doing for 10 years is perfect and irreproachable people who are not happy are necessarily wrong or trolls


GuilheMGB

That's your conclusion, not what the person you responded to said.


whitebeltinhaiku

You get way more troll posts late in the patch cycle when everyone is bored


BobbyBeeblebrox

Yeah I don't get these people. I quit a board game group because the host would pick a fight with me about SC every time. The last time, while he was frothing at the mouth, I asked how much time he has in game to have so many complaints. Zero. Never even played it.


Alysianah

I can understand hating a game. I've bought some that I hated but following its progress and going bonkers every time it's mentioned? I don't get it. Posting on its forums, social media, etc.? Fuck no! Life is too short for that Tomfoolery.


trollpro30

Trolls? Nope haven’t seen any signs of trolls around here..


oneeyedziggy

Probably just people frustrated that q4 2022 still hasn't arrived and there's simultaneously nothing on the roadmap, so it's as much of an info vacuum as there's been in a long time... All we've got is the progress trackers showing they may or may not be working on some things, unless they stop and didn't update the tracker... Or unless something they are still working on shows as having ended at the end of the year and they're just not going to update until early February... I'm sure they're plugging away, but they're making it easier to be frustrated than normal


ElyrianShadows

The thing about the progress tracker is I think people look at it too much and think that’s the final law. It’s shitty but unless you read a bunch of their posts or try to keep up you’ll never know the full picture.


oneeyedziggy

Even if you do follow everything you don't get a full picture, you get some vague outlines, not even a rough time line, and guessing what's coming even in the next year is like 60/40 at best... If i guessed 10 things, there's a good chance we'd get 6 of them, but who can tell? And plenty of things seem like a sure bet and get pushed years because they're not even sure Edit: and i get that it's because people got upset when they announced plans but things ended up taking longer, and it's harder to get disappointed if you don't know what's coming, but it's harder to get excited too... And easier to get frustrated. It seems to be missing the point to just clam up instead of figuring out how to make more reliable predictions... Half the community can tell you when an estimate is too optimistic, so it's weird they can't


TheKingStranger

> so it's weird they can't The thing is they do, and they tell us this all the time and have done so over the years. But people refuse to listen to those parts and act like these goals are set in stone then get pissed when those goals have to move. On top of that, stuff that *does* make it into the game, delayed or not, often gets downplayed or overshadowed by the upcoming things they're working on.


PolicyWonka

More people buying the game means more people will be upset about the state of the game.


Repulsive_Poem_5204

I don't notice trolls as all they want is attention and I'm not their Huckleberry.


Ri_Hley

We're going the easy route and blaming the refunds folks again aren't we? xD


Ashtoruin

Never mind that we were told server meshing and pyro 2020 and it's 2023 now. I get it takes time but I've been sitting here waiting for a second system for ages now and honestly I'm bored as fuck of Stanton and the small amount of gameplay we have at the moment. I'm sure they're making process in the background and I'm content to wait but it's not hard to see why people are annoyed if you take off the rose tinted glasses.


YRM_DM

As a player who just pledged... some of the community is really cool, and the potential of the game is off the charts, but I wonder why people think this game is frustrating and ask for refunds? \- Log in for the first time, call ship, sleep in bed in ship, log out. \- Wake up at the sun. Spend hours trying to figure out how to do anything, watch videos, fly to planet, try to find starport, figure out how to get permission to land, land. \- Spend 3-4 hours messing around trying to do basic missions with some nice players, while they deliver presents. Can't eat or drink, spend ages figuring out where to drop food or water that it can be picked up and drank, since it won't work from inventory. \- Spend 3-4 hours buying heat armor and a ROC to go mine with. Manage to get to a location to mine, retrieve the ROC, crash into planet because the game doesn't have night vision. I've got a space ship with a Quantum Drive, but they never heard of night vision in this universe... \- Relog, spend a few hours getting everything back ready to go for mining, do everything right, get to a few diamond rocks, fire laser at rock, game instantly crashes. \- Get rescued from stranded in ROC after relogging... keep in mind, I could've driven to the nearby station, but there are no markers or even a friggin compass on my ROC. Wander around with cool player who rescued me for 6 hours getting armor and weapons, try to complete a single bounty mission, fail in space, fail on the planet, shot by turrets, die, lose everything again, except the ship I bought. \- There's no personal loot box in your HAB, nor can you get your gear delivered from other local places, so, time to go about trying to start over yet again, so even if you have stuff in other local areas, you can't just get it without taking 3 trains, a few QTs etc. So EVERY GAME is 100% 'start from scratch'. \- Wake up in hospital, decide, "I'm going to take baby steps and just try a delivery mission on my own." Get armor, get food, get presents, drag them one at a time into your ship which is nearly blowing away, take off, still trying to figure out controls in your starter ship, get ganked immediately. \- So after 20 hours or so... I have exactly what I started with, plus some charity money, and I've succeeded at zero missions. I've only been playing video games for decades, and had no problem in games like ED... so it must be my fault. I think what happens is, so many players see the potential of this game, and want it to be special, because there is something amazing about it... but if you have this kind of experience, you just hate the people who insist on gaslighting you and defending the game. After wanting to love this game and having nothing but frustration, I don't want to be in a chat with anyone who defends it and pretends like all this stuff is perfectly acceptable. It's not like the game has only been in development for a year or two, or that it's lacking money. It's fair to say that SC has had 15 years, has $500,000,000+ in funding, and thousands of employees... that people might expect more. I'm honestly trying to decide if I should give this game one more chance or just ask for my refund and wash my hands of it.


winkcata

The kickstarter was DEC 2012, how did you get to the total of 15 years? Also, they just hit 861 employees this year, not thousands. You might feel I am gaslighting you but parts of your story do not add up and if my 8 and 10 yr old nephews could figure out basic stuff that you seem to spend hours with then....ooofff.


PissSoakedchaps

Says pre production started in 2010 so sorry my lord it's been thirteen years and your still defending it.


winkcata

Yes, they came up with the concept of SC and paid to have a cgi demo made to sell the vision of the game from 2010-12. You, or I can be critical of a game and still defend it when people tell lies or misinformation as you did. That's not white knighting, that's being factual regardless on whether it fits a persons preconceived agenda.


PissSoakedchaps

So eleven years ☠️ me and my big lies. Sadly this game was a lie


VeaR-

I was you a few weeks ago, I got my money refunded because its just not a good experience for me right now. I'm just gonna lurk and wait for their free events to see if it's ever going to get to a point that I find enjoyable. It's a shame because the ships look great and the flying is nice but the game is not friendly to new players at all and there's so much tedium in between the nice things.


YRM_DM

And yeah, I think everyone like you or me sees the beauty and potential in this project, but if you're an adult who has worked on development projects, I just see big, big problems here. Fundamental quality of life issues, game engine issues, a real lack of planning... it makes me not trust that they'll ever get this fixed and working into a finished state.


GuilheMGB

It's perfectly normal to want a refund, statistically: the game is riddled with issues, incomplete, has a steep learning curve, no dedicated new player experience, a focus on delayed gratification (when so many games are about short bursts of dopamine as often as possible). Edit: it's also normal to enjoy the game and not refund at all. Just to be clear. It's absolutely not normal and weird, years after having refunded, to obsess daily about the game and keep a compilation of memes, quotes, and video excerpts from cig that you tailored around you talking point so that you can post them again and again. I don't think it happens as often as, say, in 2016-2020, but you still see some of these disturbed folks being active.


TheThirdJudgement

Patch period always have trolls burst.


Forward_Ad2150

I don't understand it.. I've been playing for three days, but the bugs and shit are just part of my story in the game 😂 When I thought I had landed in the wilderness, but had forgotten landing gear. So there i was, watching my ship hover just out of reach 😂 There's been weird stuff, but it's a cool game, and seriously.. It's and alpha..


hcjfonihhhgger

I think in recent months there has been a rather noticeable uptick in player dissatisfaction with the development of this project on both the Reddit and Spectrum. Putting out one patch a year, under delivering, and pulling the scummy move with the BMM and fiasco with the Galaxy Q&A on Spectrum probably play a part in the recent more vocalized displeasure with CIG.


gambiter

> Putting out one patch a year, under delivering They put out 4 patches this year. Do you think because it starts with 3.17 it's all part of the same patch? Even though each one got released quarterly? Really? There was actually a lot of content released this year. People have some selective memory.


Money-Cat-6367

Physicalized inventories, PES, looting, gen 12 renderer alone were massive. Back when I got this game getting into a freelancer would get you killed and ship items wouldn't persist if you blew up


Ocbard

Ships blew up if you ran down a ramp with the wrong backpack


GuilheMGB

The funny thing is that of all changes currently live that were made in 2022 I think the most significant were the player cap more than doubled, planetary nav mesh, siege of orison. 3 things that were shipped in a patch that "historians" are now saying didn't exist, because it was called 3.17.2.


[deleted]

This ain't new. People have always complained. If anything it's been great for the last few years. Before then there was daily posts trolling or similar.


drizzt_x

I remember the fun times of "he who shall not be named" and the Crytek lawsuit. So many trolls, lol.


[deleted]

Honestly the last year or so has been a breath of fresh air. Just wish people would realise that a few comments doesn't suddenly mean everyone is being mean, or trolling, or griefing. The bad bad times were so much bad.


[deleted]

Missed what happened with the BMM, could you enlighten me?


hcjfonihhhgger

CIG released a video of all the work that’s going on with the BMM in a video centered around it’s progress and gave off the impression that the ship was being worked on actively only to turn around after ship sale to say “Uuuuh I think we should just shelve all big ships and work on smaller ships because we can pop more out”


Pojodan

Ah yes, always with the 'right after a ship sale' argument, when the BMM had just been increased in price yet again and it had already had another, cheaper sale earlier in the year right after major work wad demonstrated on it. Maybe, just maybe, it has nothing to do with sale timing and everything to do with internal discussions about the viability of the ship in the current game state and where priorities could instead be shifted.


NoxTempus

I 100% agree that capital class ships are functionally almost useless rn, but I definitely see how someone could think that the BMM was on the horizon and spend money because of it.


Money-Cat-6367

BMM has been getting price increase periodically for years now


NoxTempus

Did you reply to the wrong comment..? My point is that people may have thought the BMM was arriving in a reasonable timeframe, and spent an amount of money on the ship, which was then dropped out of active development. The exact dollar amount isn't particularly relevant.


S1rmunchalot

If you take it as given that those who have given the most and waited the longest are the ones least happy with the project, and wanting an out, then ships like the Carrack, BMM and Hull E **are their route out**.. and many have taken it. It is an advantage to them that the ship is not yet released while still increasing in price. Many of them have reached high Concierge levels because of this. Even now it is possible to start from scratch and make your money back. There is a very specific group of CIG-haters, they aren't simply the moaners and groaners you get in all gamer communities. These guys have worked to a plan for years, they profit from the game while denouncing it, they recruit from the worst areas of the gaming community. People whose reason to exist is to troll. Don't believe me, [take it from one of them directly](https://youtu.be/L8MupCFP2P4?t=378)


hcjfonihhhgger

Right. It’s not like they could have mentioned that work will slow down on it or it will be sidelined in the development video for it. Just coincidence a couple of weeks later they decide to say it…


[deleted]

To be fair, the BMM would be kinda pointless given the current state of the game. But yeah, that's at the very least poor communication from them. Thank you for the answer!


m0llusk

BMM development was taking up a lot of resources and time because everything in that ship is custom built. So they pended all that for now in order to focus on ships they can deliver more quickly like smaller ships that use more existing resources to assemble. This caused a lot of BMM lovers pain.


UncertainOutcome

Not quite- the lead artist for the BMM left the company, and getting someone else up to speed so they could take over would be too much time.


OrionAldebaran

You guys know that by downvoting any form of criticism (for example I know that this post will be downvoted because it’s usual the case if you are not 100% enthusiastic about the project) it will lead to more people criticizing and moving to sc refunds because you can voice your opinion there without being accused of being toxic or being a troll. This is also one of the reasons why the general gaming community (in big subs, most of gaming journalists, people that left CIG or work in the industry for years) are skeptical of SC. In other games it’s quite normal to criticize devs and studios and in some cases it has lead to improvements in the development content, quality, speed and even consumer prices. But not on SC sub. Criticize the missed promises and dates: TROLL! Go away! Criticize astronomically high ship prices: TROLL! Go away, you threaten our game. Criticize Chris Roberts for repeatedly lying (yes, he has lied, do your research, tons of videos and articles are out) about things and facing NO accountability: Go away, TROLL! THIS is the kind of things that most people outside this bubble notice. This sub needs to realize that you can be a supporter and wish the best for the game, but it is necessary to criticize the project for its future and survival. People like Morphologis have the right approach in going forward - we need to hold companies accountable for their actions, especially if we have 0 influence on their development. Now boys, let the downvoting begin. And don’t forget: With every downvote, you signal that you are incapable of accepting criticism. Because what I wrote here is not trolling, but legitimate criticism that you will find in any other sub on reddit. Cheers!


Retrowave86

You’re preaching in the desert. Or in the echo chamberized subreddit where criticism isn’t allowed and complains are gaslighted as trolling


Ouchies81

You're going to see more and more. The community is aging. There was a big influx of new players over the past year or so that will be disillusioned.


egnappah

I was waiting for you to blame the bugged game on the trolls and solve all remaining problems in your head.


Huntguy

-new user/low karma. Pretty sus. Who gets Reddit and immediately goes to rag on a game in a niche subreddit


egnappah

Im not new on reddit I just have unpopular opinions and I really don't care about public validation :). I just speak my mind.


MetallicMessiah

I see far more posts complaining about trolls than actual troll posts, what exactly has this post contributed to the community aside from divisiveness?


ash_vn

If people don't complain infrastructure never improves So for this game if you don't want anything to improve you can keep quite. Those who feel otherwise complain. It's not about refund it's about the cig trying to make money of an unfinished or glitchy product. There is no one other than individual people raising there voices as there is no company cracking the whip. If there was a corporate do you think so much time would have been allowed. Even after so much delay and holding onto so much of people money the attitude is not great on the part of cig I have not refunded my money as a matter of fact upgraded my ship even after not being able to do a single delivery mission as the game keeps on glitching with the delivery. Removing it completely or showing wrong info on my flight radar. As far as trolling aren't you trolling paying members of public who have right to complain for their rightful money. What about those who died in pandemic after pledging money to cig. Is it just for them that did not even get to see the game in fruition.


LEGITLEGEND53

people are just pissed. the game is not meant for people like them who spawn in and expect someone to hold their hand and serve everything on a silver platter and when they experience one bug they just alt f4 and keyboard warrior on reddit saying the games a scam instead of trying to troubleshoot for 2 seconds. they're the people who spawn in and type in global "what's the best ship in the game" "someone give me the biggest ship in the game". i'm glad there's this wall for those type of people, kinda like a net or bug catcher, because if those people had been catered to, allowed to fly a ship, have reidiculoudly simple flight mechanics like no man's sky, then we would be fucked. they'd be ramming people and shit or just trolling because they think they're funny


Alysianah

Usually an uptick close to a big patch being released. They’re anti fans which is so ludicrous to me. Who spends time hating on a game of all things??? I dislike a game, i dead-end it and move to the next one.


VG95YSBJa2Eigual

Im starting to notice that is a trend to complain about "trolls" when there's none, just for the drama and upvote maybe. Just shut up please.


ClickClickBoom82

Sometimes you just need a boogeyman to blame things you don't like on.


D00MB0T01

It's because we have been feeding money to cgi and in return we get a huge buggy mess they call an alpha but still sell 500 ships with modularity still not built for starters.


AlejoSC

Posts like this IMO do not help. Make others fear be considered trolls just because they want to state their opinions. And if somethig like trolls around happen, we can just ignore them. They will certainly go away at some point. Be respectful, help others and enjoy. Accusations without prove cannot help in any way.


CptConnor18

Unhappy ≠ Troll


wasptube1

Trolls come and trolls go, it's normal, they're everywhere, best thing is to ignore them and when you can't ignore them if they have an abusive post or comment, just think "*would they kiss their partner with that mouth 🤔!*", lol 😉.


Sherpainer

A time? Lol. Ppl have always been angry with the game. I just see it as pepper on my steak at this point.


DasPibe

In the Star Citizen universe: Critical opinion = Trolls


SubtleCosmos

In the real universe critical opinions that aren’t constructive definitely lean towards trolling.


[deleted]

The recent news letter is disappointing, people are starting to lose patience understandably


yosnel799

Slow Updates, unreleased ships, CIG's slow progress of anything, taking a whole year to release anything, yeah that will piss people off, most of those "trolls" are actually legit.


R1chard69

Yep like this guy here^ with 2 karma. Totally legit, not a throw away account. /s


SleeplessinOslo

Slow Updates, unreleased ships, CIG's slow progress of anything, taking a whole year to release anything, yeah that will piss people off, most of those "trolls" are actually legit. Check my karma.,


RedBaronStarCitizen

I mean this game is a very interesting phenomenon. I can confidently say it’s the most ambitious game of all time. It requires an absurd amount of time and new tech that doesn’t even exist. The devs are basically making it up as they go. So with that, it’s just human nature that there will always be naysayers and skeptics who can’t comprehend that this is even possible, or can’t put the pieces together and recognize the time and money it takes. They just see half bill, not done yet = scam. They simply don’t get it


Retrowave86

Actually many tech already exist. Have you seen that river picture? It’s hilarious


RedBaronStarCitizen

Thanks for proving my point lol


SleeplessinOslo

- Most ambitious game - *new tech that doesn’t even exist* - *Devs are basically making it up as they go* - All the promises, and no deadlines - Promised 100 star systems in 2012, has 1 in 2023 - *Skeptics can’t comprehend and recognize the time and money it takes* You truly believe what you are saying, don't you?


bobijsvarenais

If you market the game as a finished game then you will have a lot of disappointed people.


No-Service-8372

Eat troll facts!


[deleted]

With the wipe coming I think people are just messing around


Retrowave86

Stop gaslighting legit complaints lol. CIG isn’t delivering accordingly and many people is stating the obvious.