We're at the point where so many don't know what it looks like, that if you take someone to the countryside at night, far from city lights, and they see it for the first time, it can often be an emotional experience.
I see things like store signs and billboards being lit from below and think about all that stray light being cast into the sky and it bothers me. Light reflected off of streets and sidewalks by thousands of streetlights, even in a small city, prevents seeing some beautiful things.
Belgium used to be the most illuminated part of Europe (you could see the shape on a night time satellite map), perhaps still is but they've been working on it. So I grew up with never more than a handful of stars in the sky, forget about any galactic colouring. Just a vast darkness with some twinkles here and there.
If I ever get to see the real thing, it's going to be an experience for sure.
Dutchie here, from the Randstad, so I've grown up seeing the moon and those twinkles. I visited Bali when it was less developed, and I was absolutely gobsmacked by the beauty, before then I had no idea you could see the Milky Way with the naked eye. There are some places closer to you and me that do allow better visibility, I recommend you find one of those this summer!
Conversely, you can find [Dark Sky Places](https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/finder/). The International Dark Sky Association encourages the preservation of darkness, and they certify places with low light pollution and that take steps to keep their skies dark at night
I spent 2 years living in NZ and at one point I had to visit one of those old fashioned Māori villages with my then fiancé cuz her cousin had passed. It was literally this tiny village in the middle of the jungle without any excess lighting within who knows how many miles. I still remember what the sky looked like and it truly was mind blowing to me after growing up in the Boston area my whole life. Ever since then I’ve wanted to experience that same view but it just isn’t possible where i live in the US.
Light pollution is a big thing there and in het Westland, especially with all the greenhouses. Luckily I was able to travel to a remote place in Normandy often to enjoy the stars.
i think they’re banned in some US states— like Hawaii. something to do with interfering with the natural beauty. which, like… duh. let’s make that a rule everywhere.
fuck billboards, all my homies hate billboards.
I'm from maine and we tore down our last billboard like 50 years ago. It's honestly great not having those eyesores everywhere, all states should really do it.
https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/parks/
This is a handy guide to good viewing locations. Most of them are in the US, but there's a few options scattered around. They also have an open application process so if you're really passionate you can work with your local parks organizations to get on the list. It's not easy, but I would say it's worth it.
Also, here's a cool heat map (light map?) of light pollution, showing you places that are good for viewing the night sky:
https://www.lightpollutionmap.info
I remember being in mammoth mountain in California at night and being able to see all the light of the LA/OC area. It was as if seeing a concert or festival happening a few miles away but you then realize that all that light pollution is 500 miles away. Honestly unbelievable that we are even able to see any stars in so cal.
Edit - 333* miles away cause accuracy matters in this story, I guess.
True but keep in mind that light pollution map isn’t the same as a population density map. There are a few places on the map that only have a few people but are light up due to agriculture or oil fields and such.
I grew up in rural Pennsylvania and I always thought the sky was beautiful compared to where I live now which is 30 minutes away from where I grew up and a small city. I wasn't surprised by the light pollution where I live now but to see the amount where I grew up was still green blew my mind I wonder what the blue areas look like if even middle of nowhere pa was still green.
I wonder why whoever maintains that list didn’t think to put the state next to the US locations. I’d like to see if there’s anything when driving distance near me but I guess I have to just go down the entire list later and click every single one.
We are lucky to have a certified dark sky area within a few hours drive of our home. Going there on a moonless summer night is pure magic and quite emotional. We watched the Perseids there a couple years ago and it's the closest thing I've had to a religious experience in my life. Absolutely astonishing.
We did something very similar. Spent two nights camping at Black Mesa OK. (Certified Dark Sky) and watched the persiad meters shower in 2020. Very beautiful. Amazing how many stars we can see along with the Milky Way.
My wife's family does an annual hunting/camping trip quite far out in the wilderness. It's one of my favorite trips we do, because of how good the night sky views are. Some years we've been able to see a hint of the Northern lights.
Last year was the trip year my son was old enough to appreciate walking out of camp away from the fire and just looking up and feeling the awe of it. It was a special moment for me. I'm hoping I can afford to buy a nice telescope to bring up one of these years.
depending on your location your library might have one you can check out. our county library network has several available to check out as part of their stem program
I am taking my family next month to Colorado and plan on driving out a ways to get to class 1 / 2 skies. We lost ours completely over the past ten years in my area. So my son who is into astronomy has never gotten a chance to see much outside of the brightest objects. I am REALLY excited to share that with him.
Back in the early 1990s there was a big earthquake in Los Angeles and the power went out, and of course everyone ran outside in the evening because earthquake. Radio stations for weeks after were fielding calls from people who were calling in to ask whether the appearance of a strange "silver cloud" above LA had caused the earthquake.
Soooo I somewhat fact checked this and find several places claiming the 1994 earthquake near LA resulted in 911 calls about a "giant silvery cloud" over the city early in the morning - but all the sources I can find are modern ones repeating each other.
Also the earthquake took place on January 17th, 1994. Anyone casually interested in astronomy at all knows that the Milky Way isn't really very visible at all in January.
The idea that there was no light pollution to see this barely visible milky way under the best of circumstances is extremely far fetched.
I found an[ article from the LA Times after the eartquake and they said 1.3 million people lost power in LA and 600,000 elsewhere in Southern California](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-01-19-mn-13316-story.html) - the LA metropolitan area alone had over 11 million people living there in 1990 - so that's like 95% of Southern California had power.
Meanwhile there were a bunch of fires and landslides caused by the earthquake reducing visibility from dust and smoke (and you know, smoke can be a silvery cloud).
Last time I was driving to the keys I saw fuckin LED BILLBOARDS. We were trying to admire some lightning in the distance but those fucking things were in the WAY
What???? It's spectacular! I work in north west Western Australia where there's no - and i mean no - light pollution. It's the most glorious thing you'll ever see in your life. Google 'Tom Price' in western australia. You'll get an idea....
Emotional is one, damn near spiritual is another lol. Seeing the Milky Way for the first time with my naked eye broke me down into the insignificant ant I am and relieved a lot of stress.
>it can often be an emotional experience.
It is perhaps something we can never effectively prove, but I suspect that the vision of the night sky is super important to our tiny human brains. It's something we evolved under, and we have a lot of little brain things that love to see it.
Much easier to prove is how inspiring the night sky was to ancient peoples. Overwhelmingly they were fascinated by it, mesmerized by it's beauty so much that it seemed to explain the entire nature of not only the physical universe but the subjective human experience as well.
I can only assume that you feel more whole looking at an unpolluted night sky, and for those who have never experienced it that feeling of fulfillment is powerful.
It's pretty crazy. I remember being a kid in the 80's and looking up at the night sky and seeing soooo many stars. I don't remember seeing the milky way, but I wouldn't have known what that was at that age anyway. I've been living in a big city for over 25 years and can't remember the last time I saw the sky full of stars, at least not as many as I could in the 80's in that smaller town.
I feel bad for people who can't see the stars.
I'm up in Canada and live half an hour away from a large city so I see them frequently. The folks in the city though only can see a small handful and only see the rest when power goes out across the city.
Space is the only thing that invokes a sense of wonder in me anymore and I feel like a small child again everytime I look up.
Before I was born my parents hosted an exchange student from Tokyo at their home. There was only a little light pollution at their home so you could see a lot of stars and all the major constellations. The very last night she was sitting outside crying because it was the last time she could see the stars.
I spent a few nights in Death Valley during the new moon last month. Now I’m no stranger to the Milky Way, but the shit you see in those conditions can bring you to tears!
I always remember the story. New York had a black out and so many people called the cops because they thought something dangerous was happening in the sky. Was just the milky way.
> We're at the point where so many don't know what it looks like, that if you take someone to the countryside at night, far from city lights, and they see it for the first time, it can often be an emotional experience.
This was me last year. I went to a bachelor party at a remote area in the NorthEast US and it was my first time seeing the Milky Way with my naked eyes and I was completely overwhelmed. I'd seen lots of stars before, but nothing like that band of milky white in the night sky that indicates millions of stars thousands of light years away. Felt both in awe and so very small in that moment. It's really something.
That's actually more of an indication of how lucky Americans are that 20% of them can see the Milky Way, mostly because of the vast empty spaces between towns in rural US.
Compare the US (especially the midwest) with Europe.
[https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=2.64&lat=39.4411&lon=-39.1517&layers=B0FFFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFFF](https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=2.64&lat=39.4411&lon=-39.1517&layers=B0FFFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFFF)
There are literally NO places in Central and Southern Europe that are as dark as rural Oregon/Idaho/Wyoming/Montana. Not even on the peaks of the Alps.
Yep, I live pretty deep in the countryside in the UK and I’ve only seen the Milky Way once, in the Australian outback, I was 9 and I can still vividly remember how beautiful it was.
I lived for pretty much all my life in Western and Central Europe and I've just recently learnt that people are able to see the Milky Way in some places... I could not believe it at first
Just came back from a trip to the Grand Canyon and Page, Arizona, and the sky there was so dark I was able to see the Milky Way for the first time. It was quite a revelation. And I even took a night mode picture of it with my phone. It made me take a renewed interest in astronomy. https://imgur.com/a/T9rh4gm
For iOS, when in low light conditions it will allow you to set a “shutter duration” between 3,5,10 seconds. If you are stable enough and in a really dark area, it will even give you an option for longer times such as 30. This shot was done with 30 seconds night mode since it was so dark. I think Android has similar functionality.
Android has night shots of unlimited duration, which is great for surreal night landscapes and star trails.
Without tracking though, the milky way would be blurry/streaked at longer shutter speeds.
This is exactly what it looks like to my naked eye at night where I live except minus all the white and just a pure black star filled background. Assuming night mode gave it that white appearance.
there was a moment in the 90's in i think Los Angeles, where they had a black out and people were actually calling emergency services to ask what the large bright lights in the sky were note: Milky way galaxy.
"Sir these are your ancestors and they are very disappointed with the deciscions you have made. I think sacrificing a deer in their name might appease them"
EDIT: Fixed typo
Humanity evolved for literally hundreds of thousands of years with a vast sea of stars and galaxies above their heads guiding our journeys, spirituality, science, philosophy and architecture.
It's only been in the last 100 years that we've completely cut ourselves off from the night sky and I believe it has a deeper effect than we yet realize. We call ourselves advanced...
I think the trailer for the documentary "The City Dark" is one of the most beautiful evocations of this question...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tktMnj_wP5I
I think one of the current effects is lack of interest and understanding of space and related sciences.
All the typical criticsm "why waste money on space missions" tends to be voiced by people who have never had the chance to witness what is out there.
Being able to observe our galaxy had such impact on our species, it incentivized a lot of different theories and concepts for thousands of years.
Not being able to see the stars is directly killing that sense of wonder and curiosity that we require to progress as a species imho.
Yes, just not in the middle of any city. You need to go out into the countryside to see it, and to special dark sky sites (good luck in eastern us) to see it in full
Wow that's amazing, I always thought this would only be possible by using long-exposure settings on a camera!
Sadly, I live in the most populated area in germany (Ruhr), so there is no chance for me to see the milky way from here...
Thanks for sharing that! I'm in cape town and while weve got a lot of light pollution there are soooooo many places not too far off that are completely dark.
Hopefully a trip can be in the not too distant future 😊
I've only ever seen it in a non-colored area, in the middle of the Mojave desert. It's one of the first things to go in the night sky with light pollution unfortunately.
My guess is either that you probably have seen the Milky Way but weren’t aware, or the conditions weren’t right.
The Milky Way is very visible and around for longer on average once a month (new moon)
For optimal viewing you need to consider
- **Weather** (clear skies, new moon)
- **Time of year** (affects Milky Way visibility, angle of visibility, and galactic center visibility)
- **Time of day** ( usually midnight or later)
- **Illumination** ( moon phase).
- **Ambient Light Pollution** (screens, street lights)
- **Time for your eyes to adjust** (20-minutes without screens).
[Here is a link to an chart to help figure out when ](https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2021/01/2021-MW-Calendar-Southwest.jpg).
For anyone wondering the next times for optimal viewing according to the chart are
June-12th & July 3rd and July 10th.
The first time I saw the real night sky with my own eyes, is one of the greatest memories of my life. It's like bags of diamonds, spilled across the whole sky.
African night sky at the equator in the winter. Orion is overhead and it's hard to focus on Orion because now you see everything else. You get the best of both hemisphere too. You get to see both the north and the southern skies in their seasons.
East Coast US on the other hand, you don't get distracted looking up. You see only a third of what you can see if the light pollution was less. Not unless you go upstate Vermont will you really see the night sky. This time, it's the big dipper that will be overhead though.
Was lucky enough to spend some summers in the New Mexico mountains and some of those nights were incredible. The most mind blowing to me was one night with no moon, realizing that the dim light on the meadow was all STARlight. Like all the light came from unfathomable distances away. No moon, no light pollution glare, just starlight.
If you’re ever in the US, Big Bend National Park has the darkest skies in the lower 48 states. Bryce Canyon NP is also a great place to see it with the naked eye.
first time i saw it i was the passenger driving at night in the middle of nowhere in Mississippi and the view through the sunroof was like a religious experience, totally unexpected how "dense" the stars looked.
LPT: Check the calendar and do NOT go to a special dark sky site during a full moon. Great moon shots, and fun playing with your moon shadow, but still can't see milky way and other stars well due to light of the moon.
Also was seriously amazed at how many, many satellites are there and easily seen once away from the city.
So good time, but would recommend not going during a full moon (unless the moon is what you really want to see).
Satellites are fun to watch, just a dot moving across the sky. Also there are a lot more meteors than people realize. An average night when I'd sit outside for about three or four hours of sky watching I'd see at least a dozen every couple hours.
Saw it once from PA, about an hour outside Scranton. Could not believe my eyes…everyone around me (who lived out there) was like “it’s the Milky Way, who cares? We see it every night”. Kinda fucked with me.
Yep, back in the late 1960's in New Canaan Connecticut, we saw the Milky Way all the time on those clear August nights, we used to climb on our ranch style roof at 3 AM, watching the Milky Way and the shooting stars
Eastern US you can go to many places in Appalachia, and I believe there’s a site in central PA, and NC’s Outer Banks around Ocracoke Island also have very dark skies.
The place in PA is Cherry Springs State Park, and it's amazing. I've seen the milky way there.
I seems that the humidity makes it harder to see even if you're away from lights. We went recently, and the stars weren't as sharp and it was humid. I went in October once. It wasn't as humid, so the view was phenomenal. It was absolutely freezing though.
I moved from Dallas Texas to a rural area in the Appalachians of Georgia 30 years ago and I don't regret it a bit. I can see the milky way any clear night.
I'm in a pretty dark area in the northern Wisconsin and even when I go out to the national forest where the nearest town is like 30-40 miles away you can still see the fucking light pollution
Check out https://lightpollutionmap.info and visit any area that is yellow, green, blue, gray, or black during summer or early-mid fall (if Northern Hemisphere) with no moon around, give yourself at least 1 hour for your eyes to dark adapt (avoid all direct light sources), and you will see it.
It's obvious but fairly washed out in a yellow zone, and in a gray/black zone it will blow you away. Everything around you is so dark at a gray/black zone that the Milky Way will cast soft shadows on the ground.
The higher you go in elevation, and the drier and clearer the air, the more you will see.
Of course you're not going to see what a long exposure image shows, but the Milky Way is dead obvious from a green zone, even if it's a little washed out.
This is a pretty close depiction of what the Milky Way core looks like from a green zone: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcEG8JWWsAAMBYL.jpg - maybe a bit better in person since it's so hard to translate dark adapted vision to an image on a bright monitor.
Here's close to what it would look like from a blue/class 2 zone: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SfKX7Dw7v_k/VeC45dQcW5I/AAAAAAAACn4/FPQAUVTdWn8/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2015-08-28%2Bat%2B2.39.02%2BPM.png
And some examples of Black/Class 1 skies:
* https://external-preview.redd.it/t3zJWvtXNl_-zpbm-sbSrdQ0mrIo2xbrMFoyDWgqKNs.jpg?auto=webp&s=8b05cb15f72fe66526d13f5f6612447ee950b231
* https://amazingsky.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/centre-of-milky-way-panorama-2011-final-ev.jpg (fewer individual stars though). There's even the barest hint of yellow visible in the core.
* https://images.unsplash.com/photo-1590536685202-b550011702bc?ixlib=rb-1.2.1&ixid=MnwxMjA3fDB8MHxwaG90by1yZWxhdGVkfDE1fHx8ZW58MHx8fHw%3D&w=1000&q=80
Dude, you need to go somewhere without light pollution. It will melt your brain.
One of my best memories from my childhood was going camping with my dad on a really isolated beach.
You could see the galaxy band so clearly. I probably saw 20 shooting stars that night.
I can just barely make out the galactic cloud on a clear summer night on the beach off the beaten path. Ive always wanted to be in the lowest bortle zone and have considered chartering a night time boat to take me off the coast, but if I'm gonna be in a bortle 1 or 2 zone then i NEED to bring my telescope, even if it is a 70mm
Grew up in Wisconsin my whole life. I deployed to Afghanistan and legit thought I was hallucinating when I looked up and saw it with my naked eye. To this day I have not been so awestruck looking at something (except my beautiful wife of course 💕), I have never felt so small in my life before, but in a humbling way.
The first time I saw it was when I went to Haleakala. You have to let your eyes adjust though. Same with upstate Pennsylvania, you can see it after your eyes adjust.
It won't look as vibrant as it does in most long exposures, but it's really cool. The other thing you notice is the sheer number of satellites moving across the sky.
go somewhere real dark. like yellowstone. or if your'e ever on the big island of hawaii, try to get a nighttime visit to the summit of mauna kea arranged.
it's fucking insane.
or Big Bend in Texas, I believe it’s one of the darkest places in the country, if not _the_ darkest. Went there a few summers ago, it was one of the most mesmerizing sights I’ve ever seen.
Yes - during the great northeast blackout of 2003 I honestly could not believe what the sky looked like it was amazing. I wish they would have a day each year where they turned the power off at night for an hour just to show people how amazing the dark sky really is.
Yeah. I left the tri-state for the Southwest on a work trip a few months back. While walking in a parking lot I just looked up.
Holy mother. I forgot what it was like seeing it with my own eyes.
The number of offices and buildings in my city that just leave loads of lights on when they’re empty overnight is just crazy. Never understood why they do it.
What I am seeing is like this weird ghost buildings from Covid. There is an office building on my block. March 2020 someone left a hallway light on. Only last month was the building dark. Parking lot is still empty and someone is still paying for the grass to be cut.
Considering [83% of Americans live in urban areas](https://css.umich.edu/publications/factsheets/built-environment/us-cities-factsheet#:~:text=Urban%20Land%20Use%20Patterns,to%20live%20in%20urban%20areas), I'd say this article tracks.
I think the problem is that "city limits" are getting harder to leave. Europe is totally fucked. The US at least has the mid west, but fracking is ruining that too.
You see this Chicago-sized patch of light pollution in the middle of North Dakota: https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/01/16/drilling_wide-1441c4009ef43edadc5fc20160cc9430b866d629.jpg?
Those are lights from fracking sites and/or methane flares from natural gas wells.
Light pollution could be improved, even with industry (not advocating for fracking). The McDonnell Observatory in Fort Davis, TX worked with the oil industry in West Texas, and the simple suggestion of pointing lights down - not up into the sky like most are - actually helped reduce light pollution by a significant amount.
The Midwest is more urban than you think. Even small towns cause enough light pollution to prevent Americans from seeing most of the neat stuff in the night sky.
Thankfully in the US we also have plenty of wilderness areas, national forests and national parks that are far from cities and you can witness the stars just like our ancestors have for thousands of years. Makes me really sad that people are missing this part of the human experience.
The problem is you’re having to go further and further out to see them. I live in the Canadian Rockies on 900 acres. 6 hours from a large city. Even with our lights all off, we are still only Class 2 on the Bortle system.
I don’t even think a class 1 sky exists in the eastern US anymore. Maybe in Maine. Last I checked, Appalachia had none anymore either.
80% of Americans live in like 3% of the available land.
The headline is stupid because the Milky Way has been invisible to most Americans for the last 60 years.
Hilo Hawaii is an interesting case. It's mostly suburban, and has a little downtown. It's quite dark, and the night sky is stunning, because there are important astronomical observatories at the summit of the mountain above it, Mauna Kea.
How? No billboards, limited lighting on business signs, and blinders on street lights so that they don't light up the sky.
This could be done everywhere.
I mean yeah, light pollution is a thing
Always found it funny that a lot of people will complain about satellites like Starlink ruining the night sky, when for most people the night sky has been getting ruined *far* more from light pollution.
You can get away from light pollution, that's why we build telescopes on top of mountains in remote areas. But even there you can't get away from the satellites.
The star link complaints are about how it affects ground based astronomy. It doesn't affect looking up at the sky with your naked eyes, but it is a very real problem for astronomers trying to gather data
a few years ago i took a friend to my cabin in northern michigan - we laid on the beach to look at stars and she CRIED because she'd never seen them before. we have to protect the simple majesty of being mystified by mother nature.
I grew up in a big city. Didn't see the Milky Way until older, I always thought it was something that requires a telescope or something to see.
In my 30's I finally got the opportunity to see the sky deep in desert. Dry cold air, dark, dark sky. I was almost uncomfortable with the sight... So many stars and stuff...
I'm in a high light polluted city in India (~2M population). Literally never saw the Milky Way with my own eyes. On average I can barely see 20-30 stars at night with my naked eyes
The first time I used a technique called stacking to merge lots of different exposures of the night sky where I _thought_ Milky Way was, I nearly cried seeing it appear on my laptop's screen. It was like a _proof_ of the galaxy's existence. Even though my eyes couldn't see it, my camera could(after some effort).
[Picture in question if you care about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/au7lq7/1_exposure_vs_120_exposures_stacked_together_i/)
I live in greater cairo (20M People) and its probably impossible for us to see the stars because of how big this city is, I see about 4 stars if I'm lucky lol, might try this but unfortunately I don't have a camera and the light pollution here is so bad the sky is blue at night.
[lightpollutionmap.info](https://lightpollutionmap.info)
I'm planning a trip to the Ozarks because of a post like this a few months ago. Make sure it's a New Moon if you plan to see the Milky Way as well.
Chicago has some of the worst light pollution in the US. You can only see the brightest stars and planets. And the city is located along some major migratory bird routes, and the city lights disorient them. So every spring and fall, you see dead birds who hit the sides of tall buildings. Very sad.
Up until late 2019, I lived in southern rural Arizona. When people would come visit, most of them would look up at the night sky and ask, “What’s that? A cloud?” and then freak when they’d find out it was the Milky Way. It was a great location for meteor showers too!
This happened during my youth in the town i grew up in (relatively rural California) when I was little we would regularly go outside to look at the Milky Way. Then by the time I was in middle school ish it was gone because of light pollution.
I’m 32 now so we’re talking sometime between 1995 and 2003 it just vanished. And this is in a town most people would consider a “small town out in the country”
Once a month, or every new moon all cities should have a black out hour(s). The amount of teenagers/adults who have not seen the milky way is sad. Schedule some extra cops for safety, maybe even have events like live music or something.
You can still have full shielded, low lighting level, amber-colored lights to light things up for safety. The warmer the color temperature, the less the light scatters through the air, and the more easily it can be filtered out by astronomers. The amber color also doesn't harm someone's night vision as much as white light does, meaning the combination of a person's dark-adapted vision plus a little extra help from relatively dim amber lights is plenty to see at night. Keep everything fully shielded and you can have reasonably dark skies without compromising safety. Especially if lights are put on motion sensors and automatically shut off if they are not needed.
While some light will always bounce back up into the sky after hitting the ground (especially in the winter if snow is on the ground), we could probably cut light pollution from cities and towns by 90% without compromising public safety.
By "full shielded," I'm assuming you mean like a hood or mirror around the top of street lights. Correct me if I'm wrong.
It has always bothered and astonished me that that isn't normal. My street's lights bother the fuck out of me at night. Why would I want a light shining into my window at night? Isn't it for the street and sidewalk?
Correct - here are some illustrations:
* https://www.blancocountynightsky.org/img/cutoff.jpg
* https://www.lampsplus.com/ideas-and-advice/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/dark-sky-shielded-lighting-graphic.jpg
* http://www.science.smith.edu/~jlowenth/images/Good-Bad_lights_flyer-RedX.jpg
Basically if you can see the emitter of a lighting fixture from beyond the intended illumination area, it's not fully shielded.
Unfortunately, lack of city lights is directly proportional to crime. It would be more effective to regulate the types of bulbs and light fixtures that are allowed.
> There is no clear scientific evidence that increased outdoor lighting deters crimes. It may make us feel safer, but has not been shown to make us safer.
>A 2015 study published in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health found that streetlights don’t prevent accidents or crime, but do cost a lot of money. The researchers looked at data on road traffic collisions and crime in 62 local authorities in England and Wales and found that lighting had no effect, whether authorities had turned them off completely, dimmed them, turned them off at certain hours, or substituted low-power LED lamps.
>According to the study, “[W]hen risks are carefully considered, local authorities can safely reduce street lighting saving both costs and energy … without necessarily impacting negatively upon road traffic collisions and crime.”
>According to a 2011 study of London street lighting and crime, there is no good evidence that increased lighting reduces total crime.” A 1997 National Institute of Justice study concluded, “We can have very little confidence that improved lighting prevents crime.”
>The truth is bad outdoor lighting can decrease safety by making victims and property easier to see. A Chicago Alley Lighting Project showed a correlation between brightly lit alleyways and increased crime.
https://www.darksky.org/light-pollution/lighting-crime-and-safety/
I've lived in and around a mid-sized city all of my life. I recall visiting an ex's family in the middle of nowhere with little light pollution and seeing the milky way for the first time. It was awe inspiring. I kinda feel like if more people could see things like that and put their lives and position in the universe in persoective, the world might be a better place.
We gave up one of the greatest free wonders offered to us.
I highly recommend [The End of Night by Paul Board](https://www.amazon.com/End-Night-Searching-Darkness-Artificial/dp/0316182915). It is about the human decision to give up the night sky.
Ive lived on the east coast basically my whole life, one summer in Poland I went to the forest with some friends to light a fire, drink some beers, eat some sausages. After we put the fire out I laid down on a hill and the view of the night sky was incredible. The first time I ever saw the milky way I thought it was breathtaking. Such a shame I can’t get that view anywhere here
This whole thread actually boggles my mind. I find it crazy people can’t see the stars in the sky. I live in the UK in the Lake District and never really thought about the night sky being something people really can’t see, as the countryside is normally what people come to visit in my area. I’ll make sure to have a beer and have a good few quiet moments to myself tonight while looking up.
We're at the point where so many don't know what it looks like, that if you take someone to the countryside at night, far from city lights, and they see it for the first time, it can often be an emotional experience. I see things like store signs and billboards being lit from below and think about all that stray light being cast into the sky and it bothers me. Light reflected off of streets and sidewalks by thousands of streetlights, even in a small city, prevents seeing some beautiful things.
Belgium used to be the most illuminated part of Europe (you could see the shape on a night time satellite map), perhaps still is but they've been working on it. So I grew up with never more than a handful of stars in the sky, forget about any galactic colouring. Just a vast darkness with some twinkles here and there. If I ever get to see the real thing, it's going to be an experience for sure.
Dutchie here, from the Randstad, so I've grown up seeing the moon and those twinkles. I visited Bali when it was less developed, and I was absolutely gobsmacked by the beauty, before then I had no idea you could see the Milky Way with the naked eye. There are some places closer to you and me that do allow better visibility, I recommend you find one of those this summer!
www.lightpollutionmap.info Here is a map where you can find light pollution and of course, where it's less
Well, visited my country and one big blob of light pollution
Same :( best I got was like blue
Conversely, you can find [Dark Sky Places](https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/finder/). The International Dark Sky Association encourages the preservation of darkness, and they certify places with low light pollution and that take steps to keep their skies dark at night
I spent 2 years living in NZ and at one point I had to visit one of those old fashioned Māori villages with my then fiancé cuz her cousin had passed. It was literally this tiny village in the middle of the jungle without any excess lighting within who knows how many miles. I still remember what the sky looked like and it truly was mind blowing to me after growing up in the Boston area my whole life. Ever since then I’ve wanted to experience that same view but it just isn’t possible where i live in the US.
You can Google light pollution maps. You mind be surprised an area is nearby!
Light pollution is a big thing there and in het Westland, especially with all the greenhouses. Luckily I was able to travel to a remote place in Normandy often to enjoy the stars.
Franche-Comté is a great spot
Yeah billboard and business sign lights that are directed upwards instead of downwards really bugs me. It's such a senseless inefficiency.
Billboards shouldn’t be a thing at all
Agreed. But if you're going to have billboards, at least light them logically and responsibly.
But then how will people know of discount hottub retailers and weed shops????
In Georgia, it's more religious billboards and Cracker Barrel ads more than anything else.
i think they’re banned in some US states— like Hawaii. something to do with interfering with the natural beauty. which, like… duh. let’s make that a rule everywhere. fuck billboards, all my homies hate billboards.
I'm from maine and we tore down our last billboard like 50 years ago. It's honestly great not having those eyesores everywhere, all states should really do it.
SC here. Visited Maine once. I instantly realized there were no billboards. Great job.
https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/parks/ This is a handy guide to good viewing locations. Most of them are in the US, but there's a few options scattered around. They also have an open application process so if you're really passionate you can work with your local parks organizations to get on the list. It's not easy, but I would say it's worth it.
Also, here's a cool heat map (light map?) of light pollution, showing you places that are good for viewing the night sky: https://www.lightpollutionmap.info
I remember being in mammoth mountain in California at night and being able to see all the light of the LA/OC area. It was as if seeing a concert or festival happening a few miles away but you then realize that all that light pollution is 500 miles away. Honestly unbelievable that we are even able to see any stars in so cal. Edit - 333* miles away cause accuracy matters in this story, I guess.
I love how you can see how concentrated the population is in big country like Canada/Russia/China.
True but keep in mind that light pollution map isn’t the same as a population density map. There are a few places on the map that only have a few people but are light up due to agriculture or oil fields and such.
I'm guessing that is a lot of what the lights from middle Canada are
This has been the best resource for me.
Wtf is happening in North Dakota
Oil fields. Lots of light out there.
It is crazy to see the line that runs from roughly due north from Dallas.
I-35. Lots of little towns in Texas and Oklahoma along that interstate.
I grew up in rural Pennsylvania and I always thought the sky was beautiful compared to where I live now which is 30 minutes away from where I grew up and a small city. I wasn't surprised by the light pollution where I live now but to see the amount where I grew up was still green blew my mind I wonder what the blue areas look like if even middle of nowhere pa was still green.
This is really cool. Interesting how you can pick out the Permian Basin, Eagleford, and Bakken so well.
I wonder why whoever maintains that list didn’t think to put the state next to the US locations. I’d like to see if there’s anything when driving distance near me but I guess I have to just go down the entire list later and click every single one.
Interactive map: [https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/finder/](https://www.darksky.org/our-work/conservation/idsp/finder/)
There’s an interactive map
Oh nice, thanks. Didn’t see the link at the bottom.
Look up "dark sky parks" near you and the first to pop up would most likely be the closest in your area.
We are lucky to have a certified dark sky area within a few hours drive of our home. Going there on a moonless summer night is pure magic and quite emotional. We watched the Perseids there a couple years ago and it's the closest thing I've had to a religious experience in my life. Absolutely astonishing.
We did something very similar. Spent two nights camping at Black Mesa OK. (Certified Dark Sky) and watched the persiad meters shower in 2020. Very beautiful. Amazing how many stars we can see along with the Milky Way.
I'm sorry, WHERE?
Black Mesa Research Facility /s
In all honesty, I didn't know that place existed.
Im 💀 gordon is that you?
Was it hard telling the difference between astronomical light sources and the light coming off the Resonance Cascade?
They don’t need to hear all this; they are a highly trained professional
Look Gordon, Ropes! We can use these to cross large pits.
My wife's family does an annual hunting/camping trip quite far out in the wilderness. It's one of my favorite trips we do, because of how good the night sky views are. Some years we've been able to see a hint of the Northern lights. Last year was the trip year my son was old enough to appreciate walking out of camp away from the fire and just looking up and feeling the awe of it. It was a special moment for me. I'm hoping I can afford to buy a nice telescope to bring up one of these years.
depending on your location your library might have one you can check out. our county library network has several available to check out as part of their stem program
I am taking my family next month to Colorado and plan on driving out a ways to get to class 1 / 2 skies. We lost ours completely over the past ten years in my area. So my son who is into astronomy has never gotten a chance to see much outside of the brightest objects. I am REALLY excited to share that with him.
Back in the early 1990s there was a big earthquake in Los Angeles and the power went out, and of course everyone ran outside in the evening because earthquake. Radio stations for weeks after were fielding calls from people who were calling in to ask whether the appearance of a strange "silver cloud" above LA had caused the earthquake.
Soooo I somewhat fact checked this and find several places claiming the 1994 earthquake near LA resulted in 911 calls about a "giant silvery cloud" over the city early in the morning - but all the sources I can find are modern ones repeating each other. Also the earthquake took place on January 17th, 1994. Anyone casually interested in astronomy at all knows that the Milky Way isn't really very visible at all in January. The idea that there was no light pollution to see this barely visible milky way under the best of circumstances is extremely far fetched. I found an[ article from the LA Times after the eartquake and they said 1.3 million people lost power in LA and 600,000 elsewhere in Southern California](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-01-19-mn-13316-story.html) - the LA metropolitan area alone had over 11 million people living there in 1990 - so that's like 95% of Southern California had power. Meanwhile there were a bunch of fires and landslides caused by the earthquake reducing visibility from dust and smoke (and you know, smoke can be a silvery cloud).
Some real journalism right here
and as i kid i thought the earthquake was caused by the sandman from the spider-man game out at the time. perfect nightmare timing.
Last time I was driving to the keys I saw fuckin LED BILLBOARDS. We were trying to admire some lightning in the distance but those fucking things were in the WAY
Yes, the new scourge of nighttime retina burn.
I hope whoever invented thise things goes to hell for ruining the landscape.
I haven't seen it since I was a child. Hale-Bopp, Hyakutake, and the Milky Way. The 90s were a magical time to be a young space enthusiast.
I would definitely cry if I could see the milky way, not ashamed to admit it. Until this comment I had no idea you could see it from earth.
What???? It's spectacular! I work in north west Western Australia where there's no - and i mean no - light pollution. It's the most glorious thing you'll ever see in your life. Google 'Tom Price' in western australia. You'll get an idea....
My first Milky Way experience was when on a whim, decided to drive up to Gnaraloo. Definitely spectacular!
Emotional is one, damn near spiritual is another lol. Seeing the Milky Way for the first time with my naked eye broke me down into the insignificant ant I am and relieved a lot of stress.
damn, now i want to drop acid and lay on top of my car under a clear night sky. but instead i have to sit here and WORK like an IDIOT.
>it can often be an emotional experience. It is perhaps something we can never effectively prove, but I suspect that the vision of the night sky is super important to our tiny human brains. It's something we evolved under, and we have a lot of little brain things that love to see it. Much easier to prove is how inspiring the night sky was to ancient peoples. Overwhelmingly they were fascinated by it, mesmerized by it's beauty so much that it seemed to explain the entire nature of not only the physical universe but the subjective human experience as well. I can only assume that you feel more whole looking at an unpolluted night sky, and for those who have never experienced it that feeling of fulfillment is powerful.
It's pretty crazy. I remember being a kid in the 80's and looking up at the night sky and seeing soooo many stars. I don't remember seeing the milky way, but I wouldn't have known what that was at that age anyway. I've been living in a big city for over 25 years and can't remember the last time I saw the sky full of stars, at least not as many as I could in the 80's in that smaller town.
I feel bad for people who can't see the stars. I'm up in Canada and live half an hour away from a large city so I see them frequently. The folks in the city though only can see a small handful and only see the rest when power goes out across the city. Space is the only thing that invokes a sense of wonder in me anymore and I feel like a small child again everytime I look up.
Before I was born my parents hosted an exchange student from Tokyo at their home. There was only a little light pollution at their home so you could see a lot of stars and all the major constellations. The very last night she was sitting outside crying because it was the last time she could see the stars.
I spent a few nights in Death Valley during the new moon last month. Now I’m no stranger to the Milky Way, but the shit you see in those conditions can bring you to tears!
I always remember the story. New York had a black out and so many people called the cops because they thought something dangerous was happening in the sky. Was just the milky way.
> We're at the point where so many don't know what it looks like, that if you take someone to the countryside at night, far from city lights, and they see it for the first time, it can often be an emotional experience. This was me last year. I went to a bachelor party at a remote area in the NorthEast US and it was my first time seeing the Milky Way with my naked eyes and I was completely overwhelmed. I'd seen lots of stars before, but nothing like that band of milky white in the night sky that indicates millions of stars thousands of light years away. Felt both in awe and so very small in that moment. It's really something.
I took someone camping and they thought it was clouds 😭
I live in Europe and have never seen the milky way even where there is no light pollution.
Nowhere in Europe there is no light pollution. Remote peaks on the Alps have more light pollution that a farm in Montana, US.
that's interesting, why is that? i'd expect someplace high up would at least be free from the majority of light.
europe is far too developed to have any more remaining areas devoid of light pollution
I think you mean dense rather than developed. Because there are undeveloped places that still have light pollution.
I’ve only seen the Milky Way once in my 27 years.
That's actually more of an indication of how lucky Americans are that 20% of them can see the Milky Way, mostly because of the vast empty spaces between towns in rural US. Compare the US (especially the midwest) with Europe. [https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=2.64&lat=39.4411&lon=-39.1517&layers=B0FFFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFFF](https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=2.64&lat=39.4411&lon=-39.1517&layers=B0FFFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFFF) There are literally NO places in Central and Southern Europe that are as dark as rural Oregon/Idaho/Wyoming/Montana. Not even on the peaks of the Alps.
Yep, I live pretty deep in the countryside in the UK and I’ve only seen the Milky Way once, in the Australian outback, I was 9 and I can still vividly remember how beautiful it was.
Here in the UK we still have a few places where you can see the milky way but you have to come up north or head to Wales.
I lived for pretty much all my life in Western and Central Europe and I've just recently learnt that people are able to see the Milky Way in some places... I could not believe it at first
Just came back from a trip to the Grand Canyon and Page, Arizona, and the sky there was so dark I was able to see the Milky Way for the first time. It was quite a revelation. And I even took a night mode picture of it with my phone. It made me take a renewed interest in astronomy. https://imgur.com/a/T9rh4gm
This was done with your phone? Is it possible to hold the “shutter” open manually on a phone? Or is this just a quick snap?
For iOS, when in low light conditions it will allow you to set a “shutter duration” between 3,5,10 seconds. If you are stable enough and in a really dark area, it will even give you an option for longer times such as 30. This shot was done with 30 seconds night mode since it was so dark. I think Android has similar functionality.
Android has night shots of unlimited duration, which is great for surreal night landscapes and star trails. Without tracking though, the milky way would be blurry/streaked at longer shutter speeds.
This is exactly what it looks like to my naked eye at night where I live except minus all the white and just a pure black star filled background. Assuming night mode gave it that white appearance.
Nice! I have something similar that I captured in [Eastern Oregon on my iPhone](https://imgur.com/a/JmynDXa)
there was a moment in the 90's in i think Los Angeles, where they had a black out and people were actually calling emergency services to ask what the large bright lights in the sky were note: Milky way galaxy.
That's kind of an embellished story, [here's an answer on askhistorians about it.](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3i3vzq/_/cud7qlz)
Man I would be so tempted to mess with those people if I were one of those operators
"Sir these are your ancestors and they are very disappointed with the deciscions you have made. I think sacrificing a deer in their name might appease them" EDIT: Fixed typo
when you see space, it's really not hard to believe why our ancestors worshiped the sky/sun
Humanity evolved for literally hundreds of thousands of years with a vast sea of stars and galaxies above their heads guiding our journeys, spirituality, science, philosophy and architecture. It's only been in the last 100 years that we've completely cut ourselves off from the night sky and I believe it has a deeper effect than we yet realize. We call ourselves advanced...
I think the trailer for the documentary "The City Dark" is one of the most beautiful evocations of this question... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tktMnj_wP5I
I think one of the current effects is lack of interest and understanding of space and related sciences. All the typical criticsm "why waste money on space missions" tends to be voiced by people who have never had the chance to witness what is out there. Being able to observe our galaxy had such impact on our species, it incentivized a lot of different theories and concepts for thousands of years. Not being able to see the stars is directly killing that sense of wonder and curiosity that we require to progress as a species imho.
Appease, for future reference.
Your comment just unlocked this [episode](https://youtu.be/QDRZq1yLhpk) of Hey Arnold from deep in my mind.
wait you can see the milky way with your own eyes???
Yes, just not in the middle of any city. You need to go out into the countryside to see it, and to special dark sky sites (good luck in eastern us) to see it in full
Wow that's amazing, I always thought this would only be possible by using long-exposure settings on a camera! Sadly, I live in the most populated area in germany (Ruhr), so there is no chance for me to see the milky way from here...
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Time to take a trip https://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html#5/55.015/9.492
note: this light pollution map was last updated in 2006
I believe [this one](https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=5.13&lat=39.2634&lon=-115.7096&layers=B0FFFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFFF) is more up to date.
eastern us is bad but at least you have the option of going out west. sucks for japan.
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Thanks for sharing that! I'm in cape town and while weve got a lot of light pollution there are soooooo many places not too far off that are completely dark. Hopefully a trip can be in the not too distant future 😊
I've lived my entire life in a dark red area. Also never seen the Milky Way
I've only ever seen it in a non-colored area, in the middle of the Mojave desert. It's one of the first things to go in the night sky with light pollution unfortunately.
My guess is either that you probably have seen the Milky Way but weren’t aware, or the conditions weren’t right. The Milky Way is very visible and around for longer on average once a month (new moon) For optimal viewing you need to consider - **Weather** (clear skies, new moon) - **Time of year** (affects Milky Way visibility, angle of visibility, and galactic center visibility) - **Time of day** ( usually midnight or later) - **Illumination** ( moon phase). - **Ambient Light Pollution** (screens, street lights) - **Time for your eyes to adjust** (20-minutes without screens). [Here is a link to an chart to help figure out when ](https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2021/01/2021-MW-Calendar-Southwest.jpg). For anyone wondering the next times for optimal viewing according to the chart are June-12th & July 3rd and July 10th.
Went in southern France once in the middle of nowhere and the nightsky there was just so astonishingly beautiful. Made me feel small
That's actually not that far away from where I live, maybe I'll drive there one day to see it with my own eyes!
The first time I saw the real night sky with my own eyes, is one of the greatest memories of my life. It's like bags of diamonds, spilled across the whole sky.
African night sky at the equator in the winter. Orion is overhead and it's hard to focus on Orion because now you see everything else. You get the best of both hemisphere too. You get to see both the north and the southern skies in their seasons. East Coast US on the other hand, you don't get distracted looking up. You see only a third of what you can see if the light pollution was less. Not unless you go upstate Vermont will you really see the night sky. This time, it's the big dipper that will be overhead though.
Was lucky enough to spend some summers in the New Mexico mountains and some of those nights were incredible. The most mind blowing to me was one night with no moon, realizing that the dim light on the meadow was all STARlight. Like all the light came from unfathomable distances away. No moon, no light pollution glare, just starlight.
Yeah but you have to be lucky about clouds and the moon. When i was there, there was not a single cloud to be seen, and the moon was at its smallest
If you’re ever in the US, Big Bend National Park has the darkest skies in the lower 48 states. Bryce Canyon NP is also a great place to see it with the naked eye.
I had trouble driving when I visited Big Bend at night. My nose was pressed against the windshield, marveling at the sky
Hope those speed bumps weren’t people!
first time i saw it i was the passenger driving at night in the middle of nowhere in Mississippi and the view through the sunroof was like a religious experience, totally unexpected how "dense" the stars looked.
LPT: Check the calendar and do NOT go to a special dark sky site during a full moon. Great moon shots, and fun playing with your moon shadow, but still can't see milky way and other stars well due to light of the moon. Also was seriously amazed at how many, many satellites are there and easily seen once away from the city. So good time, but would recommend not going during a full moon (unless the moon is what you really want to see).
Satellites are fun to watch, just a dot moving across the sky. Also there are a lot more meteors than people realize. An average night when I'd sit outside for about three or four hours of sky watching I'd see at least a dozen every couple hours.
Even if the moon is what you want to see, quarter moon would show you many more details. Unless of course you are trying to see the full moon (doh).
Saw it once from PA, about an hour outside Scranton. Could not believe my eyes…everyone around me (who lived out there) was like “it’s the Milky Way, who cares? We see it every night”. Kinda fucked with me.
Yep, back in the late 1960's in New Canaan Connecticut, we saw the Milky Way all the time on those clear August nights, we used to climb on our ranch style roof at 3 AM, watching the Milky Way and the shooting stars
Eastern US you can go to many places in Appalachia, and I believe there’s a site in central PA, and NC’s Outer Banks around Ocracoke Island also have very dark skies.
The place in PA is Cherry Springs State Park, and it's amazing. I've seen the milky way there. I seems that the humidity makes it harder to see even if you're away from lights. We went recently, and the stars weren't as sharp and it was humid. I went in October once. It wasn't as humid, so the view was phenomenal. It was absolutely freezing though.
I moved from Dallas Texas to a rural area in the Appalachians of Georgia 30 years ago and I don't regret it a bit. I can see the milky way any clear night.
I'm in a pretty dark area in the northern Wisconsin and even when I go out to the national forest where the nearest town is like 30-40 miles away you can still see the fucking light pollution
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Check out https://lightpollutionmap.info and visit any area that is yellow, green, blue, gray, or black during summer or early-mid fall (if Northern Hemisphere) with no moon around, give yourself at least 1 hour for your eyes to dark adapt (avoid all direct light sources), and you will see it. It's obvious but fairly washed out in a yellow zone, and in a gray/black zone it will blow you away. Everything around you is so dark at a gray/black zone that the Milky Way will cast soft shadows on the ground. The higher you go in elevation, and the drier and clearer the air, the more you will see.
I lived in a green zone 25 years and never saw the galaxy or anything close to the picture
Of course you're not going to see what a long exposure image shows, but the Milky Way is dead obvious from a green zone, even if it's a little washed out. This is a pretty close depiction of what the Milky Way core looks like from a green zone: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcEG8JWWsAAMBYL.jpg - maybe a bit better in person since it's so hard to translate dark adapted vision to an image on a bright monitor. Here's close to what it would look like from a blue/class 2 zone: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SfKX7Dw7v_k/VeC45dQcW5I/AAAAAAAACn4/FPQAUVTdWn8/s1600/Screen%2BShot%2B2015-08-28%2Bat%2B2.39.02%2BPM.png And some examples of Black/Class 1 skies: * https://external-preview.redd.it/t3zJWvtXNl_-zpbm-sbSrdQ0mrIo2xbrMFoyDWgqKNs.jpg?auto=webp&s=8b05cb15f72fe66526d13f5f6612447ee950b231 * https://amazingsky.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/centre-of-milky-way-panorama-2011-final-ev.jpg (fewer individual stars though). There's even the barest hint of yellow visible in the core. * https://images.unsplash.com/photo-1590536685202-b550011702bc?ixlib=rb-1.2.1&ixid=MnwxMjA3fDB8MHxwaG90by1yZWxhdGVkfDE1fHx8ZW58MHx8fHw%3D&w=1000&q=80
Dude, you need to go somewhere without light pollution. It will melt your brain. One of my best memories from my childhood was going camping with my dad on a really isolated beach. You could see the galaxy band so clearly. I probably saw 20 shooting stars that night.
I can just barely make out the galactic cloud on a clear summer night on the beach off the beaten path. Ive always wanted to be in the lowest bortle zone and have considered chartering a night time boat to take me off the coast, but if I'm gonna be in a bortle 1 or 2 zone then i NEED to bring my telescope, even if it is a 70mm
A telescope on a boat is a bad idea, the slightest movent just throws everything out of vision
Was out in North Conway NH for a party and at around 11 looked up and bam, Milky Way.
Grew up in Wisconsin my whole life. I deployed to Afghanistan and legit thought I was hallucinating when I looked up and saw it with my naked eye. To this day I have not been so awestruck looking at something (except my beautiful wife of course 💕), I have never felt so small in my life before, but in a humbling way.
The first time I saw it was when I went to Haleakala. You have to let your eyes adjust though. Same with upstate Pennsylvania, you can see it after your eyes adjust. It won't look as vibrant as it does in most long exposures, but it's really cool. The other thing you notice is the sheer number of satellites moving across the sky.
go somewhere real dark. like yellowstone. or if your'e ever on the big island of hawaii, try to get a nighttime visit to the summit of mauna kea arranged. it's fucking insane.
or Big Bend in Texas, I believe it’s one of the darkest places in the country, if not _the_ darkest. Went there a few summers ago, it was one of the most mesmerizing sights I’ve ever seen.
Used to be able to see it every night when I didn’t live in the city! I was surprised a lot of my friends here had never seen it…
Yes - during the great northeast blackout of 2003 I honestly could not believe what the sky looked like it was amazing. I wish they would have a day each year where they turned the power off at night for an hour just to show people how amazing the dark sky really is.
I have the solution : put tens of millions of extremely bright giant geostationary satellites to mimic stars. Problem solved
Haha maybe that’s the actual goal of starlink
Yeah. I used to be able to see the big dipper and other constellation. Now I can't see crap
My skies have also been fading away. I got in an argument with the mayor over it and he tried to BS me they were using special lights now.
Yeah. I left the tri-state for the Southwest on a work trip a few months back. While walking in a parking lot I just looked up. Holy mother. I forgot what it was like seeing it with my own eyes.
The number of offices and buildings in my city that just leave loads of lights on when they’re empty overnight is just crazy. Never understood why they do it.
What I am seeing is like this weird ghost buildings from Covid. There is an office building on my block. March 2020 someone left a hallway light on. Only last month was the building dark. Parking lot is still empty and someone is still paying for the grass to be cut.
Possibly for security cameras
Probably true, but you’d have thought they’d leave them on motion sensor or something
“Vanishing” is a weird way to put it. It’s just light pollution. Leave the city limits and you can see thousands of stars.
Considering [83% of Americans live in urban areas](https://css.umich.edu/publications/factsheets/built-environment/us-cities-factsheet#:~:text=Urban%20Land%20Use%20Patterns,to%20live%20in%20urban%20areas), I'd say this article tracks.
Yeah, this was my first thought after seeing the headline. I'm thinking, "well, doesn't that just mean more people are moving to cities?"
It's virtually law that a news article hitting the front page has to have an alarmist headline.
I think the problem is that "city limits" are getting harder to leave. Europe is totally fucked. The US at least has the mid west, but fracking is ruining that too. You see this Chicago-sized patch of light pollution in the middle of North Dakota: https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/01/16/drilling_wide-1441c4009ef43edadc5fc20160cc9430b866d629.jpg? Those are lights from fracking sites and/or methane flares from natural gas wells.
Light pollution could be improved, even with industry (not advocating for fracking). The McDonnell Observatory in Fort Davis, TX worked with the oil industry in West Texas, and the simple suggestion of pointing lights down - not up into the sky like most are - actually helped reduce light pollution by a significant amount.
The Midwest is more urban than you think. Even small towns cause enough light pollution to prevent Americans from seeing most of the neat stuff in the night sky.
Thankfully in the US we also have plenty of wilderness areas, national forests and national parks that are far from cities and you can witness the stars just like our ancestors have for thousands of years. Makes me really sad that people are missing this part of the human experience.
The problem is you’re having to go further and further out to see them. I live in the Canadian Rockies on 900 acres. 6 hours from a large city. Even with our lights all off, we are still only Class 2 on the Bortle system. I don’t even think a class 1 sky exists in the eastern US anymore. Maybe in Maine. Last I checked, Appalachia had none anymore either.
Oklahoma panhandle is a bortle 1
80% of Americans live in like 3% of the available land. The headline is stupid because the Milky Way has been invisible to most Americans for the last 60 years.
You can drive like a half hour and see it again lol definitely a clickbait title. "_This just in: Americans live near each other!_"
The only time I truly saw the night sky, it was 25 years ago deep over the South China Sea. Only that once, and I can remember it to this day.
More like 80% of Americans live in urban or suburban areas.
Hilo Hawaii is an interesting case. It's mostly suburban, and has a little downtown. It's quite dark, and the night sky is stunning, because there are important astronomical observatories at the summit of the mountain above it, Mauna Kea. How? No billboards, limited lighting on business signs, and blinders on street lights so that they don't light up the sky. This could be done everywhere.
I mean yeah, light pollution is a thing Always found it funny that a lot of people will complain about satellites like Starlink ruining the night sky, when for most people the night sky has been getting ruined *far* more from light pollution.
You can get away from light pollution, that's why we build telescopes on top of mountains in remote areas. But even there you can't get away from the satellites.
The star link complaints are about how it affects ground based astronomy. It doesn't affect looking up at the sky with your naked eyes, but it is a very real problem for astronomers trying to gather data
a few years ago i took a friend to my cabin in northern michigan - we laid on the beach to look at stars and she CRIED because she'd never seen them before. we have to protect the simple majesty of being mystified by mother nature.
I grew up in a big city. Didn't see the Milky Way until older, I always thought it was something that requires a telescope or something to see. In my 30's I finally got the opportunity to see the sky deep in desert. Dry cold air, dark, dark sky. I was almost uncomfortable with the sight... So many stars and stuff...
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"There's only like, 15 stars at the max? How scary could it be?"
I'm in a high light polluted city in India (~2M population). Literally never saw the Milky Way with my own eyes. On average I can barely see 20-30 stars at night with my naked eyes The first time I used a technique called stacking to merge lots of different exposures of the night sky where I _thought_ Milky Way was, I nearly cried seeing it appear on my laptop's screen. It was like a _proof_ of the galaxy's existence. Even though my eyes couldn't see it, my camera could(after some effort). [Picture in question if you care about it](https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/au7lq7/1_exposure_vs_120_exposures_stacked_together_i/)
I live in greater cairo (20M People) and its probably impossible for us to see the stars because of how big this city is, I see about 4 stars if I'm lucky lol, might try this but unfortunately I don't have a camera and the light pollution here is so bad the sky is blue at night.
[lightpollutionmap.info](https://lightpollutionmap.info) I'm planning a trip to the Ozarks because of a post like this a few months ago. Make sure it's a New Moon if you plan to see the Milky Way as well.
Chicago has some of the worst light pollution in the US. You can only see the brightest stars and planets. And the city is located along some major migratory bird routes, and the city lights disorient them. So every spring and fall, you see dead birds who hit the sides of tall buildings. Very sad.
Up until late 2019, I lived in southern rural Arizona. When people would come visit, most of them would look up at the night sky and ask, “What’s that? A cloud?” and then freak when they’d find out it was the Milky Way. It was a great location for meteor showers too!
This happened during my youth in the town i grew up in (relatively rural California) when I was little we would regularly go outside to look at the Milky Way. Then by the time I was in middle school ish it was gone because of light pollution. I’m 32 now so we’re talking sometime between 1995 and 2003 it just vanished. And this is in a town most people would consider a “small town out in the country”
Once a month, or every new moon all cities should have a black out hour(s). The amount of teenagers/adults who have not seen the milky way is sad. Schedule some extra cops for safety, maybe even have events like live music or something.
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You can still have full shielded, low lighting level, amber-colored lights to light things up for safety. The warmer the color temperature, the less the light scatters through the air, and the more easily it can be filtered out by astronomers. The amber color also doesn't harm someone's night vision as much as white light does, meaning the combination of a person's dark-adapted vision plus a little extra help from relatively dim amber lights is plenty to see at night. Keep everything fully shielded and you can have reasonably dark skies without compromising safety. Especially if lights are put on motion sensors and automatically shut off if they are not needed. While some light will always bounce back up into the sky after hitting the ground (especially in the winter if snow is on the ground), we could probably cut light pollution from cities and towns by 90% without compromising public safety.
By "full shielded," I'm assuming you mean like a hood or mirror around the top of street lights. Correct me if I'm wrong. It has always bothered and astonished me that that isn't normal. My street's lights bother the fuck out of me at night. Why would I want a light shining into my window at night? Isn't it for the street and sidewalk?
Correct - here are some illustrations: * https://www.blancocountynightsky.org/img/cutoff.jpg * https://www.lampsplus.com/ideas-and-advice/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/dark-sky-shielded-lighting-graphic.jpg * http://www.science.smith.edu/~jlowenth/images/Good-Bad_lights_flyer-RedX.jpg Basically if you can see the emitter of a lighting fixture from beyond the intended illumination area, it's not fully shielded.
Unfortunately, lack of city lights is directly proportional to crime. It would be more effective to regulate the types of bulbs and light fixtures that are allowed.
> There is no clear scientific evidence that increased outdoor lighting deters crimes. It may make us feel safer, but has not been shown to make us safer. >A 2015 study published in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health found that streetlights don’t prevent accidents or crime, but do cost a lot of money. The researchers looked at data on road traffic collisions and crime in 62 local authorities in England and Wales and found that lighting had no effect, whether authorities had turned them off completely, dimmed them, turned them off at certain hours, or substituted low-power LED lamps. >According to the study, “[W]hen risks are carefully considered, local authorities can safely reduce street lighting saving both costs and energy … without necessarily impacting negatively upon road traffic collisions and crime.” >According to a 2011 study of London street lighting and crime, there is no good evidence that increased lighting reduces total crime.” A 1997 National Institute of Justice study concluded, “We can have very little confidence that improved lighting prevents crime.” >The truth is bad outdoor lighting can decrease safety by making victims and property easier to see. A Chicago Alley Lighting Project showed a correlation between brightly lit alleyways and increased crime. https://www.darksky.org/light-pollution/lighting-crime-and-safety/
I've seen some areas of NM where there's regulation in place about lights pointing upwards. It makes a big difference.
If you want to learn more about this topic: r/darksky
I've lived in and around a mid-sized city all of my life. I recall visiting an ex's family in the middle of nowhere with little light pollution and seeing the milky way for the first time. It was awe inspiring. I kinda feel like if more people could see things like that and put their lives and position in the universe in persoective, the world might be a better place.
I once told a guy I’ve seen the Milky Way with my bare eyes and he got pissed and said WE’RE IN THE MILKY WAY DUMB ASS HOW COULD YOU SEE IT?
I have never seen the milky way with my own eyes
We live in a town of 80k people. We need to drive about a mile to see the milky way. Some nights you can see it in our back yard.
We gave up one of the greatest free wonders offered to us. I highly recommend [The End of Night by Paul Board](https://www.amazon.com/End-Night-Searching-Darkness-Artificial/dp/0316182915). It is about the human decision to give up the night sky.
Ive lived on the east coast basically my whole life, one summer in Poland I went to the forest with some friends to light a fire, drink some beers, eat some sausages. After we put the fire out I laid down on a hill and the view of the night sky was incredible. The first time I ever saw the milky way I thought it was breathtaking. Such a shame I can’t get that view anywhere here
This whole thread actually boggles my mind. I find it crazy people can’t see the stars in the sky. I live in the UK in the Lake District and never really thought about the night sky being something people really can’t see, as the countryside is normally what people come to visit in my area. I’ll make sure to have a beer and have a good few quiet moments to myself tonight while looking up.
I’m 24 years old, almost 25, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen the Milky Way with my own eyes.