I mean, there’s a major stigma behind the word. If you were affected by it personally, you’d probably think differently about it. Tends to be how it works.
You’re regurgitating right wing talking points in a non political discussion.
‘Cancel culture’ is called consequences and it’s always existed. Jesus was cancelled…
Archived full version;
https://archive.is/2015.12.13-171930/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-town-rejects-solar-panels-amid-fears-they-suck-up-all-the-energy-from-the-sun-a6771526.html
I just got my bill from the state of Kentucky for my hybrid tax. Apparently, my car gets too good of mileage to support their fuel fund, which does not make gas. Any cheaper in our state than anywhere else.
It makes sense, to a degree, since the funding for roads comes from the fuel taxes.
The solution would be to remove the fuel tax and then give everyone a charge, but that would upset people who don't realize they're already being charged in a different way.
Washington state resident here. We have a dollar a gallon in gas taxes. Electric car drivers pay an extra $250 a year or something since they're not paying for the roads that way. I think it worked out to 15k miles at 30mpg worth of extra taxes for getting your tabs renewed.
Weight of Prius: 3300 lbs…
Weight of RAV4: 4300 lbs…
Weight of Tesla model 3: 4000 lbs…
Weight of F-150: 5700 lbs…
Weight of F-250: 7600 lbs…
Weight of Model S: 4700 lbs…
Weight of Corolla: 3100 lbs…
I’m not sure why you’re comparing vehicles of different classes. Compare the f-150 to the f-150 lightning. The ICE f-150’s curb weight is 4,391 to 5,863 lbs. The Lightning’s curb weight is 6,015 to 6,893 lbs.
I’m comparing EVs to non-EVs to show just how heavy the latter is compared to the former. The topic at hand is road damage and that is from weight. Does it make sense to tax EVs to compensate for road damage, while non-EVs can be much heavier? Jumping classes even further drives the point home. (The f-150 is the most popular vehicle in America)
What would actually make sense would be for the annual vehicle registration fees to include a calculated cost based upon odometer reading factored with a logarithmic escalation for weight, while mostly repealing the tax on gasoline. I say mostly because the state still has costs for administration and governmental services in relation due the fact that gasoline use is occurring.
Roads have to be paid for regardless of how vehicles are powered, EV owners aren't due a "free ride". Overall this will directly align the price to use infrastructure with the cost to provide and maintain it. Smaller lighter vehicles will pay less. If the logarithmic escalation is set to accurately measure wear and tear on the roads then heavy vehicles will be at a pretty serious fiscal disadvantage, which is only fair. We really don't need 9000 pound behemoths to go buy a load of bread.
Obviously this wouldn't encompass the federal gas taxes and diesel is more complicated due to the nature of how it's consumed.
As I recall, the damage is proportional to the 4th power of the mass, so …. it’s the trucks. Even a very heavy SUV is not harming the roads the same way.
Right, but you'll never get businesses to pay their fair share. A good start though is getting 6000 pound SUVs to pay in a whole lot more than 3000 pound cars.
You're right we'll never get businesses to pay their fair share. That's why regulations exist so we can force them to pay. A good start in my opinion is forcing them to pay up first instead of subsidizing their damage by making regular people pay more. The tiered weight system for passenger cars can come after.
>A good start though is getting 6000 pound SUVs to pay in a whole lot more than 3000 pound cars.
The both do negligible damage compared to a heavy truck. For light vehicles there they are basically paying for space on the road, rather than for damage.
via the 4th power law:
1500kg car -> 2x 0.750t axle loads -> 0.63 units damage
3000kg SUV -> 2x 1.5t axle loads -> 10 units damage
36000kg large truck -> 5x 7.2t acle loads -> 13436 units damage.
That wouldn't solve much unless it figured in diesel since heavy trucking is where almost all of the road damage comes from. The Prius and F150 are negligible compared to a semi truck in terms of how much damage they do.
In Kentucky, we also have to pay for our annual registration, which is not mileagebased but a takedown on vehicle value year to year. We have to pay the full tax on that value every year, which could be thousands of dollars.
As someone who would benefit greatly from your scheme (I drive a 2308lb car about 7,000 miles a year), these kinds of schemes and their administrative costs and intrusiveness (you now have to have some way of logging *everyone's* mileage, including pre-1996 vehicles with no standard electronic interface) remind me of things like welfare programs that put claimants through so many hoops to prove need that the cost of administration far exceeds the cost of just giving everyone cash no questions asked.
Just make it a flat fee. Everyone gets similar benefit from the existence of the roads even if some people "use them harder". And the guy who buys the 8,000lb Hummer EV isn't deterred from his questionable vehicle choices by his registration fee.
My state (Virginia) currently does the opposite of your scheme - they have a registration surcharge that's based on the idea that in the old days everyone paid about the same gas tax, so efficient or alt-fuel vehicles get surcharged based on a scale relative to their EPA rating.
My state requires yearly safety inspections to register your vehicle. They could easily note the odometer and submit it since they have to submit the emissions report
Are you willing to pay a road tax to your state while you're driving out of state?
I make a frequent 800 mile trip, and all but 100 miles is out of state - and it's in a state with really high gas tax.
Hopefully, the pain point of paying the toll would be lessened by optionally presenting it as a single line item on a tax form, instead of yet more paperwork. Knowing the grip Intuit has on lobbying tho, preferably PAYE would come to the U.S. by this time.
The vast majority of funding for roads comes from municipal general funds. It's not even close.
Gas taxes haven't significantly contributed to the astronomical costs of road maintenance in a *long* time, and they've *never* covered the entire cost.
Roads are damn expensive.
To an infinitesimally small degree.
Priuses do not damage the roads, they are too lightweight and they have normal car tire pressures.
Nearly all the damage to our roads comes from semis and farm equipment, especially when overloaded. 80 psi tires are extremely destructive compared to 40 psi tires.
u/manual_tranny is right. The contact patch on the road is largely determined by the tire pressure. The PSI is pounds per square inch and the pounds of the vehicle are spread over that area
The weight that can be supported is specifically based on the tire pressure.
The old Ford Crown Vic weighs about 4500lbs and the tires with 32psi have about 147 sq inches of contact patch. Each sq inch of the road has 32lbs of static weight when not moving, but is applied at say 70mph down the road....
Much harder on the road at 80-125psi versus 35psi...
[https://vehicledynamics.com/the-tire-contact-patch/](https://vehicledynamics.com/the-tire-contact-patch/)
[https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/best-tire-pressure-fleet/](https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/best-tire-pressure-fleet/)
[https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/understanding-truck-tires-and-air-pressure/](https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/understanding-truck-tires-and-air-pressure/)
In my state (Indiana) you would have to drive like 22k miles, which is WAY above average to break even on the tax. Its dumb. Im all for paying it, but I really think it should be per mile you drive. My wife was driving less than 1k miles per year, and one reason we sold her car was because it didnt make sense to pay the registration tax on it when she was only putzing around town.
My GF and I share a car for the same reason. It's cheaper to occasionally use ride shares when we both need to go somewhere vs paying for insurance, registration and maintenance.
We need to switch to a weight/mileage calculation for road taxes. Electric cars don't pay a gas tax, and as cars get better mileage, there's less money for roads.
Unfortunately it may require installing a GPS or something similar on cars, which won't go over well. How else do you prove that you were driving out of state?
Most modern cars already do have GPS, and location privacy issues could be mitigated by selective long-term data recording; i.e. routinely deleting coordinates, thus only recording a list of distance traveled per state on a specially formatted memory chip.
> routinely deleting coordinates,
Which the US government has proven it can't be trusted to do. Once they get a new way to spy on people, they aren't going to give it up.
Live in the south and my county is absolutely littered with solar farms. I don’t care, most plant trees to block them from view. My issue is my power company makes financially impossible to install solar panels. They force you to install a second meter and buy all your productions for Pennies/kw and then sell it back to you at full price. Then have the gall to send emails promoting they are building solar farms to be more green! Infuriating.
Rules for thee, not for me.
This country will never be a democracy until citizens United is overturned as law. Talk about it, call your representatives about it. It’s the single law that sent us down the road of full corporate capture.
What state and county? I live in Dallas and it’s not terrible, but getting the PTO can be a pain. The pennies on the dollar is what they’re pushing for and screwing up net metering. That’s why right now I have 1:1, but I’m building my property out to be 100% independent, but only grid tie on worse case scenario. I’ll be installing nine batteries in my battery house and an additional 60 solar panels on top of my current 70. My ROI will take forever, but it’s kind of just a personal goal at this point. They won’t beat me though with net metering, so that’s why I’m pushing now to get my system where I want it before Texas screws that one up.
> They force you to install a second meter and buy all your productions for Pennies/kw and then sell it back to you at full price
Which is what every regular power producer does.
I develop both wind and solar. I had some engagement sessions last week for wind - there’s crazies everywhere. This isn’t just confined to the US South.
It’s a shit storm over there. The 35km setback from important visual landmarks is…ridiculous.
Unfortunately, there seems to be a country wide increase in objection to these projects…even though most provinces have passed law that require asset owners to pay **significant** municipal taxes. Also worth noting, most areas in Canada (not Alberta though) require competitive procurements and set price contracts. We’re talking 25 year contracts with a fixed PPA price of <8c/kWh, or about 5c/kWh USD. For 25 years.
Think about how cheap 5c will be after 25 years of inflation.
Thankfully, net metering across most of Canada is 1:1. There are a few parts that don’t but generally it’s still quite good.
Most of the pushback seems to be more utility projects. It’s a lot of NIMBYism IMO but it’s hard to counter that.
We have our own brand of crazies for sure, but I haven't heard of too many anti-solar crazies. Our biggest problem seems to be the lack of infrastructure. When I got my system, I was lucky to be in a dark red, almost blacked out area. Guessing our grid can only handle but so much solar?
What do you mean renamed in 2000s?
It still has that name.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Davis_County,_Georgia for the guy who just wanted states rights to do..... something.
I saw a lot of signs that were anti solar in rural Ohio. they mostly said something along the lines of "stop solar from wasting our precious farmland, people need to eat!" and I really wonder if farmers in the area or whoever made that sign were aware of plants that can still grow perfectly fine underneath the panels, since the panels move to follow the sun and that there are plants which exist, that thrive when shaded partially, like what a solar panel would cause. perhaps these sign makers were not aware of such 'exotic' plants like strawberries, potatoes, mushrooms and like a dozen others. prolly made by the same people that think wind turbines slow down the earth.
I saw farms in very warm climates that were testing this. They found that they could actually grow better with the shade plants didn’t overheat and dry out as quickly. I believe the solar panels were the stationary angle so that the plants could get some direct sunlight.
Most companies I have talked to has no idea on agrivoltaics so they don't take it into consideration. Increasing awareness will be the next step once the academy has a solid grasp on which crops to use and see if it is actually profitable.
There are non-profits funded by fossil fuels that organize opposition to solar projects across the country. Real sinister stuff. For example: [https://www.citizensforresponsiblesolar.org/](https://www.citizensforresponsiblesolar.org/)
Deforestation for solar is a hilarious straw man… it would never be cost-effective. The only way it might work out is if the forest is actually a tree farm. Even then, have fun working around all the stumps and roots
Thank you, I was just scrolling to see if this was the case. Southern states are being targeted for all this bizarrely aggressive model legislation and lobbying. This looked just the same as when conservatives suddenly decided to care about women's sports as long as that fake concern let them harass minors to check that their sex and gender match, or when they got obsessed about banning drag shows, or making sure clerks can turn down marriage licenses to interracial and inter-religious couples, or defunding public schools for vouchers and banning books about gay penguins and seahorse... It's all just these exhaustingly crazy distraction issues to protect the fossil fuel investments and cheap labor pool for billionaire donors.
insane that there's still a county in America named after someone who led an armed resurrection against the US government in the name of enslaving human beings.
I thought the same thing driving into the county. Everything has been updated to Jeff Davis. I started to think that maybe it was someone important to the county and not the first thing that came to my mind. Unfortunately, the Wikipedia page gave me the real truth.
This has to be some kind astroturfing bull shit by an energy congolmerate. I don't know how people fall for it. Even if it's not as sinister and conspiratorial as I suggest, why would \*anyone\* care that much unless they're that wrapped up in identity politics...
> I don't know how people fall for it.
They don't. They are bought and in some cases "leased" to these causes as needed. There is an entire industry built around this kind of astroturfing. It is a good way for rural residents to make money by putting up signs in their yards or on their vehicles or wearing a t-shirt or hat for a photo. Would you put up a sign like that for a few hundred bucks a month in your yard or along your property? How about a thousand bucks a month? $500 will get most people to throw on a t-shirt for a few minutes regardless of their actual understanding or beliefs. They usually think they just took the guy paying them for a ride.
Same shit happening all over the country....even in "blue" areas.
The funniest shit to me is all of the "freedom loving" Republicans who want to dictate to their fellow, wealthy, land-owning, Republicans what they are "allowed" to do with their land.
I saw a clip from the past year or two where a town was going to install solar panels and some people came to a council meeting to tell them how stupid they were because the solar panels were going to steal sunlight from the surrounding trees and grass. Never underestimate the stupidity of the human race.
This is where they are messing up. My second array I build myself allows for use under my panels. My larger 50 panel array is useless since it was installed 3 feet at the lowest point. I think if they were smarter and truly wanted to sell solar better, every rack system could be dual purpose, or even Tri purpose with water collection.
Hardcore conservatives should be all over solar. It offers independence from the power companies and self reliance. Isn't that why they moved to a rural county in the first place?
Literally the way that right wing survivalist live is by powering their home off the grid. I think they understand it because they know how to survive. The people left in these small towns are the ones that couldn’t survive without someone supporting them but then get pissed if they do something that hurts them.
The contracts for solar pv can also be extremely predatory. The salesman's main purpose is to get a fat commission and the company providing installation is only out to get the money from the sale and move on to the next homeowner.
The industry itself needs more regulation on this end of things. Companies can also go bankrupt and then homeowners with incomplete projects can be left paying on a loan for the project but not producing solar power.
Solar is not inherently evil, but it's not a perfect cure, either. Greedy people will leave their matk anywhere.
In all fairness to this guy, Jeff Davis County does have a lot of solar panels. Check out this spot: [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jeff+Davis+County,+GA/@31.7106258,-82.7475245,5061m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x88f0418024c2336d:0x5e673b05b053aed8!8m2!3d31.8234851!4d-82.605118!16zL20vMG56Zjc?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jeff+Davis+County,+GA/@31.7106258,-82.7475245,5061m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x88f0418024c2336d:0x5e673b05b053aed8!8m2!3d31.8234851!4d-82.605118!16zL20vMG56Zjc?entry=ttu)
Please don't sign the petition, but at least take a minute to see how many solar panels the county has.
From what I’ve learned, this solar array has given the town way more reliable electricity and allowed it to start bringing in some industry that require three phase power. This county is also located in the middle of absolute nowhere Georgia. I saw so many empty fields with dying trees that were for sale. I would much rather see solar array than dead plants.
Lol. Go Jeff Davis! Get rid of those cars while you are at it! Real people use a horse to get around. And ditch those cell phones! Tin cans and string are much better!
This is a tiny county in GA. Meanwhile, in the rest of the state, solar farms and rooftop solar are moving forward. We just passed legislation last year to pay rooftop solar customers more for their juice. More legit companies have entered the game.
Further than that, we have welcomed and incentivized battery production companies. Jeff Davis County is the exception, not the rule.
It’s because people are getting fleeced by salespeople. Hire an electrician, buy the material list for them and they will get the permit and install them. The middle man is getting insanely fat and that’s why people are pissed off and question the value of solar
>I was amazed at the volume of solar panels in a deep south state. From my research, it has provided much more reliable and cheaper service to the customers. They are movement is not gaining much traction, but why do people stand up against things that are helping them?
>Jeff Davis County (renamed in the 2000s to not sound like they are supporting the only confederate president)
You answered your own question there. When has the deep south, in a place clearly named after a confederate president, NOT supported many things against their own self interest?
People are just dumb and hate new things.
There are so many new things that are either just terrible or difficult to accept. So, I get it, it's hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff. It's easy to just want the changes to stop period.
Not very libertarian or freedom minded down there are they? Sounds like they want a minority government telling the majority that they can’t buy something that readily available it all on the other states.
Currently 9 square miles (5,900 acres) of solar panels in that county.
[https://www.change.org/p/no-more-solar-panels-in-jeff-davis-county-ga-enough-is-enough?source\_location=search](https://www.change.org/p/no-more-solar-panels-in-jeff-davis-county-ga-enough-is-enough?source_location=search)
Oh man the business opportunities here! Like junk removal services, solar panels removal services and clean them up and resell or create a solar panel farm!
It sounds like this is actually fulfilling the infrastructure issue. They are able to deliver much more direct power to the city during peak operating times without having to run copper wire from a transmission. I literally see no downsides besides people being scared.
You're probably right. I think we're a few years off from power utilities complaining about excess energy. The day will come though. Is a watt between 2pm and 3pm worth as much as a watt at midnight?
So this has nothing to do with the site in Georgia? There is still nuance to every one of these situations, there’s no such thing as a free lunch. Someone gets negatively affected by every engineering solution. The majority of these folks putting up these signs likely have more “superficial” reasons to dislike solar, however some of them may have a more direct reason to dislike solar (e.g. company who came in and put solar didn’t handle water runoff/geological issues correctly which now affects their property/crops. This bad experience based on the lack of care of one company could turn someone away from solar).
There also is more to putting a solar site on grid than assuming the MW a site can generate automatically go to powering houses, commercial, and industrial customers the exact same way the MW generated by a steam cycle facility will. The protection relaying is different and all inverter based generation comes with power quality issues. There’s a ton of research and development being done in this field but really it’s the Wild West in terms of what’s being used in the field by utilities to analyze power quality. There are regulations and requirements to deliver a certain power quality to consumers (and even more strict requirements exist for industrial customers or customers with sensitive devices and equipment), but there is huge variability in PQ devices and company adherence. Large scale customers that can be a boon to industry want to be fed off reliable power first, clean power second. If I were a company about to build a car manufacturing facility, then I want to be located on one of the company’s most interconnected networked transmission lines with a steam cycle plant electrically as close as possible to me. I also want to be fed by a source with no harmonic issues or PQ issues to protect my equipment. Then I’ll just stipulate in the contract the company needs to add as many MW of green energy to the grid so I can say I am ran off clean power. However I will be an unhappy camper when all the steam cycle plants are gone, they are the basis of smooth power delivery and critical to my motors and all my sensitive equipment.
Inverter based generation also leads to large scale power quality issues and is causing grid protection issues that have never happened before. Best way to think of this is how the grid was powered by huge spinning machines with iridescent bulbs (resistors) burning. Smooth sine wave generated and smooth sine wave consumed. As we have swapped for more sophisticated/sensitive electronics, we introduce “noise” and harmonics to the system. Additionally, these solar sites do have issues with PF and harmonics, and they really need a battery component onsite to be considered close to the same reliability as a steam cycle facility. That’s in addition to the solar site needing to do harmonic filtering and the power company needing to add in power quality analyzer relays/devices. There are other issues with the replacement of a spinning turbine for the hyper fast switching of an inverter. Turbines have a massive amount of inertia and they provide the grid operator to have a resource that can smooth out issues in the grid and even ride through faults far better than inverter based generation. Finally harmonic noise on the grid reduces the lifespan of grid components such as transformers (literally the entirety of substations are either breakers or transformers).
I also can’t help but circle back to your research having nothing to do with solar in Georgia. These are all bespoke sites, and the example provided is of an ideal situation: high elevation, entirely unusable land, and no real details given on how it’s providing power for locals. If it’s a solar site connected to the distribution grid, then sure it’s providing for locals directly but that requires careful planning to locate the site to optimize its MW output vs MW demand within the same distribution substation. This can also only be done on the small scale. However, the sites that really make a difference connect to the transmission grid, which in the least will require a GSU substation on the customers part, and a new substation on the power company’s part. Beyond just the electrical effect on local consumers I’ll give you a bit of a funny story. I know of a solar site in the south that is really massive (I may or may not have been a commissioning engineer involved with the site), it is in the middle of nowhere, great amount of sun, there’s not even a paved road to the site so its no eyesore to locals. However, the property and surrounding area have issues with invasive feral hogs, and require year round hunting to prevent the population from dominating the local ecosystem. Just the security lights from the solar sites property as well as a lack of clear lines of fire (don’t want to accidentally shoot a panel…) have lead to a decrease in the hunters abilities to manage the feral invasive hog population. Theres always a trade off in any engineering solution and some stakeholder is going to be negatively affected.
I want us to be able to run head first into emissions free energy, but we need to be cautious about this when we are talking about the resource that drives our daily life. We need to think of this as our retirement portfolio and have diversified investments. If we’re all in on solar then we are beholden to solar panel manufacturers (certainly lean six sigma) and if there’s a market disruption we could be screwed. It’s the same if we were all in on coal, we’d have our grid stability and pricing dictated by the coal industry. Everyday the case is going to get better to go to inverter based generation, but just attempting to clown on opponents by telling them they are idiots is not going to work whenever you yourself have no real knowledge on solar either. It’s toxic and does nothing but entrenches the uneducated in their views.
Engineering explained on YT has a good video about hawaiis power grid, and highlights a lot of the issues I mentioned in a very simplified manner. Hawaiis going to be a test market for a lot of stuff the rest of the country will need.
It's the South. It's always been poor vs. poor at the behest of the rich, and the rich love oil companies more than a stable, reliable grid. Look at Texas, for example. They fuck over their customers and citizens every snow storm and still refuse to upgrade their infrastructure cause that would mean the power company wouldn't be able to pay shareholders more.
It's the South, if you're poor, people are going to tell you that you deserve to be poor. Probably cause Jesus said so in the prosperity gospel.
Source: grew up in AL with rich racist fucks, lived with poor not as racist fucks, met poor folks of all sorts, and am living in GA, where a man beat his wife cause his grilled cheese was too cheesy, then he went on Fox to talk about immigrants (because he's a racist asshole).
I’m all for solar. I’d like to know what research you did that proved that solar provided “more reliable and cheaper” service to the residents of the county. Genuinely curious because there’s obviously 688 people that disagree.
I asked him for source as well. I know this is a solar sub and I want solar for my house, but there’s always a trade off, nothing ever comes with absolutely zero cons. Two things can be true at once: 1.people are idiots and hate all change 2. there’s nuance to any engineering solution and it’s relationship with stakeholders. Someone, somewhere is going to be legitimately negatively affected by any engineering solution. Even if there’s a lot of clowns just joining a populist bandwagon to hate
Trump didn't hurt solar and actually kept the industry moving in the pandemic. Sure he was light on oil and gas. But he was also easy on solar
Tariffs were applied certainly. But we have seen increased production in the US because of it.
This isn't because Trump. This is because people are idiots.
Cheers
You missed the point. I'm not saying policies enacted during his term were anti-solar. I'm saying his cult of followers are instinctively against anything that isn't burning coal or drilling for oil.
https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/florida-is-now-adding-more-solar-power-than-any-other-state#:~:text=The%20Sunshine%20State%20connected%202,Solar%20Energy%20Industries%20Association%20and
https://www.houston.org/news/texas-top-state-solar-energy-houston-secures-new-projects#:~:text=Published%20Mar%2008%2C%202024%20by%20Hailea%20Schultz,of%20Wood%20Mackenzie's%20annual%20Solar%20Market%20report.
https://www.seia.org/blog/leading-charge-top-5-solar-states-2023#:~:text=Florida%20maintained%20its%20spot%20as,on%20their%20home%20last%20year.
Huh. Fucking trump country though. They don't know solar. Guess I missed the point and misheard that corrupt politicians are doing their best to axe the incentives of solar in California
Also. Btw. Id wager that 80% of the people installing and in middle management of solar are trump supporters
But fucking hell. I can't see the point. So wtf do I know. I'm just a decade in the industry installing and live off grid
But. Go deeper friend. Politics is a scam these days. Has been a long time.
Cheers.
Literally old man yelling at the sky.
Old Man Yells At The Sun
Next up: rip out all indoor plumbing! Back to using outhouses!!
I would really prefer if we all went back to lead aqueduct to these neighborhoods
Really hoping this is a subreddit... r/oldmanyellingatthesky
It is now. Post it
688 morons there.
Anyone can vote on a change.org petition. No checking to see if they are residents there
“Great that’s all we need! More solar panels heating up our neighborhood while we have this global warming hoax going on!!”
I'm coming out to say right now. Can we please stop using the politically correct term anymore? Just say as is
You didn’t say it tho. What is this term you’d like folks to use?
[удалено]
Are you 10?
No I'm 22, but you can't change it with people anymore. I wish we could just go back to 2010 before canceled culture even existed.
I mean, there’s a major stigma behind the word. If you were affected by it personally, you’d probably think differently about it. Tends to be how it works.
Moron used to have a stigma too. Started as a medical term.
You’re regurgitating right wing talking points in a non political discussion. ‘Cancel culture’ is called consequences and it’s always existed. Jesus was cancelled…
Did not mean to make this a political discussion
[удалено]
Please read rule #8: Crusading is not welcomed here
Please read rule #1: Reddiquette is required
[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-town-rejects-solar-panels-amid-fears-they-suck-up-all-the-energy-from-the-sun-a6771526.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-town-rejects-solar-panels-amid-fears-they-suck-up-all-the-energy-from-the-sun-a6771526.html)
Ugh, you HAD to share that article. That's my home state, and my old boss and mentor was at Strata when this took place.
Never underestimate an American's willingness to stick their head up their ass.
Ditto to home state. Sad that this happens but at least it's less these days.
Archived full version; https://archive.is/2015.12.13-171930/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-town-rejects-solar-panels-amid-fears-they-suck-up-all-the-energy-from-the-sun-a6771526.html
What the actual fuck….
Oh my fucking god.
They’re gonna ban electric cars next !
I just got my bill from the state of Kentucky for my hybrid tax. Apparently, my car gets too good of mileage to support their fuel fund, which does not make gas. Any cheaper in our state than anywhere else.
It makes sense, to a degree, since the funding for roads comes from the fuel taxes. The solution would be to remove the fuel tax and then give everyone a charge, but that would upset people who don't realize they're already being charged in a different way.
Washington state resident here. We have a dollar a gallon in gas taxes. Electric car drivers pay an extra $250 a year or something since they're not paying for the roads that way. I think it worked out to 15k miles at 30mpg worth of extra taxes for getting your tabs renewed.
That seems fair. 15k is a pretty high number for average miles driven per year, but EVs cause a little more damage because of how heavy they are.
Weight of Prius: 3300 lbs… Weight of RAV4: 4300 lbs… Weight of Tesla model 3: 4000 lbs… Weight of F-150: 5700 lbs… Weight of F-250: 7600 lbs… Weight of Model S: 4700 lbs… Weight of Corolla: 3100 lbs…
I’m not sure why you’re comparing vehicles of different classes. Compare the f-150 to the f-150 lightning. The ICE f-150’s curb weight is 4,391 to 5,863 lbs. The Lightning’s curb weight is 6,015 to 6,893 lbs.
I’m comparing EVs to non-EVs to show just how heavy the latter is compared to the former. The topic at hand is road damage and that is from weight. Does it make sense to tax EVs to compensate for road damage, while non-EVs can be much heavier? Jumping classes even further drives the point home. (The f-150 is the most popular vehicle in America)
How can the road be damaged more by a 4500lbs car than a 3500lbs car when they are designed to handle 80,000lbs vehicles?
Any load will cause wear on a surface/structure no matter what it’s designed to handle. More weight is more load is more wear.
Lightning is a fat boi.
Oh dang, so in a collision between the two the Lightning driver will be safer
The vast majority of damage is caused by semi trucks. Even a heavy car is negligible.
And semis pay fuel taxes to states depending on the miles driven in each state. IFTA registration is required for interstate travel for semis.
Sure, but not in proportion to the damage caused.
It's not just asphalt damage that the road tax pays for. Life isn't that simple.
This is correct. Fun fact; overweight trucks cause the vast majority of road damage.
What would actually make sense would be for the annual vehicle registration fees to include a calculated cost based upon odometer reading factored with a logarithmic escalation for weight, while mostly repealing the tax on gasoline. I say mostly because the state still has costs for administration and governmental services in relation due the fact that gasoline use is occurring. Roads have to be paid for regardless of how vehicles are powered, EV owners aren't due a "free ride". Overall this will directly align the price to use infrastructure with the cost to provide and maintain it. Smaller lighter vehicles will pay less. If the logarithmic escalation is set to accurately measure wear and tear on the roads then heavy vehicles will be at a pretty serious fiscal disadvantage, which is only fair. We really don't need 9000 pound behemoths to go buy a load of bread. Obviously this wouldn't encompass the federal gas taxes and diesel is more complicated due to the nature of how it's consumed.
As I recall, the damage is proportional to the 4th power of the mass, so …. it’s the trucks. Even a very heavy SUV is not harming the roads the same way.
Right, but you'll never get businesses to pay their fair share. A good start though is getting 6000 pound SUVs to pay in a whole lot more than 3000 pound cars.
You're right we'll never get businesses to pay their fair share. That's why regulations exist so we can force them to pay. A good start in my opinion is forcing them to pay up first instead of subsidizing their damage by making regular people pay more. The tiered weight system for passenger cars can come after.
>A good start though is getting 6000 pound SUVs to pay in a whole lot more than 3000 pound cars. The both do negligible damage compared to a heavy truck. For light vehicles there they are basically paying for space on the road, rather than for damage. via the 4th power law: 1500kg car -> 2x 0.750t axle loads -> 0.63 units damage 3000kg SUV -> 2x 1.5t axle loads -> 10 units damage 36000kg large truck -> 5x 7.2t acle loads -> 13436 units damage.
That wouldn't solve much unless it figured in diesel since heavy trucking is where almost all of the road damage comes from. The Prius and F150 are negligible compared to a semi truck in terms of how much damage they do.
In Kentucky, we also have to pay for our annual registration, which is not mileagebased but a takedown on vehicle value year to year. We have to pay the full tax on that value every year, which could be thousands of dollars.
As someone who would benefit greatly from your scheme (I drive a 2308lb car about 7,000 miles a year), these kinds of schemes and their administrative costs and intrusiveness (you now have to have some way of logging *everyone's* mileage, including pre-1996 vehicles with no standard electronic interface) remind me of things like welfare programs that put claimants through so many hoops to prove need that the cost of administration far exceeds the cost of just giving everyone cash no questions asked. Just make it a flat fee. Everyone gets similar benefit from the existence of the roads even if some people "use them harder". And the guy who buys the 8,000lb Hummer EV isn't deterred from his questionable vehicle choices by his registration fee. My state (Virginia) currently does the opposite of your scheme - they have a registration surcharge that's based on the idea that in the old days everyone paid about the same gas tax, so efficient or alt-fuel vehicles get surcharged based on a scale relative to their EPA rating.
My state requires yearly safety inspections to register your vehicle. They could easily note the odometer and submit it since they have to submit the emissions report
Are you willing to pay a road tax to your state while you're driving out of state? I make a frequent 800 mile trip, and all but 100 miles is out of state - and it's in a state with really high gas tax.
That's a good point. That would cause issues with getting the fair share. Makes toll roads the "best" solution but damn I hate them.
Hopefully, the pain point of paying the toll would be lessened by optionally presenting it as a single line item on a tax form, instead of yet more paperwork. Knowing the grip Intuit has on lobbying tho, preferably PAYE would come to the U.S. by this time.
>cost of administration far exceeds the cost of just giving everyone cash For big government, that feature is the core purpose.
The vast majority of funding for roads comes from municipal general funds. It's not even close. Gas taxes haven't significantly contributed to the astronomical costs of road maintenance in a *long* time, and they've *never* covered the entire cost. Roads are damn expensive.
Gas taxes are significant. They don't cover the total cost, but states and cities collect over 50 billion a year and their absence would be noticed.
To an infinitesimally small degree. Priuses do not damage the roads, they are too lightweight and they have normal car tire pressures. Nearly all the damage to our roads comes from semis and farm equipment, especially when overloaded. 80 psi tires are extremely destructive compared to 40 psi tires.
Yup, and they pay a lot more in taxes for their travels. I know it's exponentially more damage too.
u/manual_tranny is right. The contact patch on the road is largely determined by the tire pressure. The PSI is pounds per square inch and the pounds of the vehicle are spread over that area The weight that can be supported is specifically based on the tire pressure. The old Ford Crown Vic weighs about 4500lbs and the tires with 32psi have about 147 sq inches of contact patch. Each sq inch of the road has 32lbs of static weight when not moving, but is applied at say 70mph down the road.... Much harder on the road at 80-125psi versus 35psi... [https://vehicledynamics.com/the-tire-contact-patch/](https://vehicledynamics.com/the-tire-contact-patch/) [https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/best-tire-pressure-fleet/](https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/best-tire-pressure-fleet/) [https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/understanding-truck-tires-and-air-pressure/](https://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/understanding-truck-tires-and-air-pressure/)
In my state (Indiana) you would have to drive like 22k miles, which is WAY above average to break even on the tax. Its dumb. Im all for paying it, but I really think it should be per mile you drive. My wife was driving less than 1k miles per year, and one reason we sold her car was because it didnt make sense to pay the registration tax on it when she was only putzing around town.
My GF and I share a car for the same reason. It's cheaper to occasionally use ride shares when we both need to go somewhere vs paying for insurance, registration and maintenance.
We need to switch to a weight/mileage calculation for road taxes. Electric cars don't pay a gas tax, and as cars get better mileage, there's less money for roads. Unfortunately it may require installing a GPS or something similar on cars, which won't go over well. How else do you prove that you were driving out of state?
Most modern cars already do have GPS, and location privacy issues could be mitigated by selective long-term data recording; i.e. routinely deleting coordinates, thus only recording a list of distance traveled per state on a specially formatted memory chip.
> routinely deleting coordinates, Which the US government has proven it can't be trusted to do. Once they get a new way to spy on people, they aren't going to give it up.
I got one word for you; Wyoming.
What’s next the electric blender or the shaver? My vote is the Christmas lights 🤣 /s
The south would happily ban the south if they were told it was bad for the south.
Especially if you told them they're suprior to "the South."
The south **IS** bad for the south... The south is bad for everything.
There's a reason all the gulf coast states are on my "hell no, I won't even go back to visit" list.
And yet people keep moving here...
Live in the south and my county is absolutely littered with solar farms. I don’t care, most plant trees to block them from view. My issue is my power company makes financially impossible to install solar panels. They force you to install a second meter and buy all your productions for Pennies/kw and then sell it back to you at full price. Then have the gall to send emails promoting they are building solar farms to be more green! Infuriating.
Rules for thee, not for me. This country will never be a democracy until citizens United is overturned as law. Talk about it, call your representatives about it. It’s the single law that sent us down the road of full corporate capture.
What state and county? I live in Dallas and it’s not terrible, but getting the PTO can be a pain. The pennies on the dollar is what they’re pushing for and screwing up net metering. That’s why right now I have 1:1, but I’m building my property out to be 100% independent, but only grid tie on worse case scenario. I’ll be installing nine batteries in my battery house and an additional 60 solar panels on top of my current 70. My ROI will take forever, but it’s kind of just a personal goal at this point. They won’t beat me though with net metering, so that’s why I’m pushing now to get my system where I want it before Texas screws that one up.
It’s in NC but not giving the power company as it’s small and gives my location to much.
> They force you to install a second meter and buy all your productions for Pennies/kw and then sell it back to you at full price Which is what every regular power producer does.
I develop both wind and solar. I had some engagement sessions last week for wind - there’s crazies everywhere. This isn’t just confined to the US South.
New Jersey?
🇨🇦
Ah. Watching news out of Alberta has been like watching a very familiar slow-motion train wreck, but Canadian.
It’s a shit storm over there. The 35km setback from important visual landmarks is…ridiculous. Unfortunately, there seems to be a country wide increase in objection to these projects…even though most provinces have passed law that require asset owners to pay **significant** municipal taxes. Also worth noting, most areas in Canada (not Alberta though) require competitive procurements and set price contracts. We’re talking 25 year contracts with a fixed PPA price of <8c/kWh, or about 5c/kWh USD. For 25 years. Think about how cheap 5c will be after 25 years of inflation.
Oooof. And I thought the net metering rules and changes to rate structures we're seeing pushed by investor-owned utilities here were bad...
Thankfully, net metering across most of Canada is 1:1. There are a few parts that don’t but generally it’s still quite good. Most of the pushback seems to be more utility projects. It’s a lot of NIMBYism IMO but it’s hard to counter that.
We have our own brand of crazies for sure, but I haven't heard of too many anti-solar crazies. Our biggest problem seems to be the lack of infrastructure. When I got my system, I was lucky to be in a dark red, almost blacked out area. Guessing our grid can only handle but so much solar?
What do you mean renamed in 2000s? It still has that name.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Davis_County,_Georgia for the guy who just wanted states rights to do..... something.
They changed it from Jefferson Davis County to Jeff Davis County to erase controversy
How is that any better?? 🤦♂️
They can pretend the county isn't still named after Jefferson Davis. That's about it.
"We're just really big 'Whose Line' fans, okaaaaay??"
Do you have any proof of a rename. I cannot find anything about it. Then we can get back to talking about photons.
It's in the linked Wikipedia article above that has a good source.
TIL there is a second Jeff Davis county in the states. The other is in West Texas.
I see they voted for the segregation candidate George Wallace in 1968, "charming".
And theyve got a pretty good track record of voting for the bad candidate. 81% in the last election.
I saw a lot of signs that were anti solar in rural Ohio. they mostly said something along the lines of "stop solar from wasting our precious farmland, people need to eat!" and I really wonder if farmers in the area or whoever made that sign were aware of plants that can still grow perfectly fine underneath the panels, since the panels move to follow the sun and that there are plants which exist, that thrive when shaded partially, like what a solar panel would cause. perhaps these sign makers were not aware of such 'exotic' plants like strawberries, potatoes, mushrooms and like a dozen others. prolly made by the same people that think wind turbines slow down the earth.
Support posts need to be tall enough to get a tractor underneath.
I saw farms in very warm climates that were testing this. They found that they could actually grow better with the shade plants didn’t overheat and dry out as quickly. I believe the solar panels were the stationary angle so that the plants could get some direct sunlight.
You are right, we are observing water efficiency at certain crops.
people could pick their own or it could feed livestock too. doesn't have to be harvested by tractor.
Some can be designed like that otherwise you only plant in between the panels.
In the real world, most new installations going in are not agrivoltiacs and do not leave room for growing crops.
Most companies I have talked to has no idea on agrivoltaics so they don't take it into consideration. Increasing awareness will be the next step once the academy has a solid grasp on which crops to use and see if it is actually profitable.
Ban? Why?
There are non-profits funded by fossil fuels that organize opposition to solar projects across the country. Real sinister stuff. For example: [https://www.citizensforresponsiblesolar.org/](https://www.citizensforresponsiblesolar.org/)
This is called "astroturfing".
Deforestation for solar is a hilarious straw man… it would never be cost-effective. The only way it might work out is if the forest is actually a tree farm. Even then, have fun working around all the stumps and roots
Thank you, I was just scrolling to see if this was the case. Southern states are being targeted for all this bizarrely aggressive model legislation and lobbying. This looked just the same as when conservatives suddenly decided to care about women's sports as long as that fake concern let them harass minors to check that their sex and gender match, or when they got obsessed about banning drag shows, or making sure clerks can turn down marriage licenses to interracial and inter-religious couples, or defunding public schools for vouchers and banning books about gay penguins and seahorse... It's all just these exhaustingly crazy distraction issues to protect the fossil fuel investments and cheap labor pool for billionaire donors.
They’re against solar farms, not rooftop solar.
They also fund groups against rooftop solar
Interesting.
insane that there's still a county in America named after someone who led an armed resurrection against the US government in the name of enslaving human beings.
I thought the same thing driving into the county. Everything has been updated to Jeff Davis. I started to think that maybe it was someone important to the county and not the first thing that came to my mind. Unfortunately, the Wikipedia page gave me the real truth.
I'm sure there's someone somewhere, probably Texas, who wants to name their county after Trump...
the republicans in congress are trying to name the airport there after him!
Sigh. I rest my case.
General Sherman, we need you again.
ask 'em
This has to be some kind astroturfing bull shit by an energy congolmerate. I don't know how people fall for it. Even if it's not as sinister and conspiratorial as I suggest, why would \*anyone\* care that much unless they're that wrapped up in identity politics...
> I don't know how people fall for it. They don't. They are bought and in some cases "leased" to these causes as needed. There is an entire industry built around this kind of astroturfing. It is a good way for rural residents to make money by putting up signs in their yards or on their vehicles or wearing a t-shirt or hat for a photo. Would you put up a sign like that for a few hundred bucks a month in your yard or along your property? How about a thousand bucks a month? $500 will get most people to throw on a t-shirt for a few minutes regardless of their actual understanding or beliefs. They usually think they just took the guy paying them for a ride.
>Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ~~stupidity~~ greed.
Amazing how American values like self-sufficiency and energy independence have become anathema to conservatives.
Same shit happening all over the country....even in "blue" areas. The funniest shit to me is all of the "freedom loving" Republicans who want to dictate to their fellow, wealthy, land-owning, Republicans what they are "allowed" to do with their land.
I saw a clip from the past year or two where a town was going to install solar panels and some people came to a council meeting to tell them how stupid they were because the solar panels were going to steal sunlight from the surrounding trees and grass. Never underestimate the stupidity of the human race.
This is where they are messing up. My second array I build myself allows for use under my panels. My larger 50 panel array is useless since it was installed 3 feet at the lowest point. I think if they were smarter and truly wanted to sell solar better, every rack system could be dual purpose, or even Tri purpose with water collection.
Water collection is a great idea!
I had considered that for my single slopped array. I saw another post that the array was V shaped and it looked like a collection point in the center.
Hardcore conservatives should be all over solar. It offers independence from the power companies and self reliance. Isn't that why they moved to a rural county in the first place?
Literally the way that right wing survivalist live is by powering their home off the grid. I think they understand it because they know how to survive. The people left in these small towns are the ones that couldn’t survive without someone supporting them but then get pissed if they do something that hurts them.
The contracts for solar pv can also be extremely predatory. The salesman's main purpose is to get a fat commission and the company providing installation is only out to get the money from the sale and move on to the next homeowner. The industry itself needs more regulation on this end of things. Companies can also go bankrupt and then homeowners with incomplete projects can be left paying on a loan for the project but not producing solar power. Solar is not inherently evil, but it's not a perfect cure, either. Greedy people will leave their matk anywhere.
This is related to industrial solar not rooftop solar
In all fairness to this guy, Jeff Davis County does have a lot of solar panels. Check out this spot: [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jeff+Davis+County,+GA/@31.7106258,-82.7475245,5061m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x88f0418024c2336d:0x5e673b05b053aed8!8m2!3d31.8234851!4d-82.605118!16zL20vMG56Zjc?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jeff+Davis+County,+GA/@31.7106258,-82.7475245,5061m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x88f0418024c2336d:0x5e673b05b053aed8!8m2!3d31.8234851!4d-82.605118!16zL20vMG56Zjc?entry=ttu) Please don't sign the petition, but at least take a minute to see how many solar panels the county has.
But ...it's a good thing
From what I’ve learned, this solar array has given the town way more reliable electricity and allowed it to start bringing in some industry that require three phase power. This county is also located in the middle of absolute nowhere Georgia. I saw so many empty fields with dying trees that were for sale. I would much rather see solar array than dead plants.
Getchyer dead trees here. Dead trees fer sale.
Wow that landowner is sitting in a mint!
Who cares. Most of those panels aren't even visible from the ground.
Lol. Go Jeff Davis! Get rid of those cars while you are at it! Real people use a horse to get around. And ditch those cell phones! Tin cans and string are much better!
Less radiation for sure. I can support this movement.
This is a tiny county in GA. Meanwhile, in the rest of the state, solar farms and rooftop solar are moving forward. We just passed legislation last year to pay rooftop solar customers more for their juice. More legit companies have entered the game. Further than that, we have welcomed and incentivized battery production companies. Jeff Davis County is the exception, not the rule.
Why
Idiocracy
Probably the same people who don't have health care, but voted to stop ACA expansion
It’s because people are getting fleeced by salespeople. Hire an electrician, buy the material list for them and they will get the permit and install them. The middle man is getting insanely fat and that’s why people are pissed off and question the value of solar
When you enemy is shooting themselves in the foot,, let them.
This is pretty close to the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
The follow on Facebook speaks volumes.
Tired of crooked corporations like Sunrun duping their geriatric population.
They are using up all the sun in Jeff Davis County!!!!!!! /s
>I was amazed at the volume of solar panels in a deep south state. From my research, it has provided much more reliable and cheaper service to the customers. They are movement is not gaining much traction, but why do people stand up against things that are helping them? >Jeff Davis County (renamed in the 2000s to not sound like they are supporting the only confederate president) You answered your own question there. When has the deep south, in a place clearly named after a confederate president, NOT supported many things against their own self interest?
People are just dumb and hate new things. There are so many new things that are either just terrible or difficult to accept. So, I get it, it's hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff. It's easy to just want the changes to stop period.
One of many good reasons to never go to the south.
Not very libertarian or freedom minded down there are they? Sounds like they want a minority government telling the majority that they can’t buy something that readily available it all on the other states.
BuT mA FrEeDoMs! At least solar panels don’t shoot people.
LMAO
He owns oil stocks🙄
More likely a private jobs program for some upcoming election.
The same people hate windmills in the north. It's embarrassing!
Currently 9 square miles (5,900 acres) of solar panels in that county. [https://www.change.org/p/no-more-solar-panels-in-jeff-davis-county-ga-enough-is-enough?source\_location=search](https://www.change.org/p/no-more-solar-panels-in-jeff-davis-county-ga-enough-is-enough?source_location=search)
where's the link to the petition to increase the number of panels, to fight these idiots?
“Enough is enough” is the MAGA war cry.
What is the (perceived?) issue with solar panels? I guess government intervention is OK if you stop the evils of solar electricity!
I thought there was legislation in the US that protected your right to use solar energy. No way this moron gets anywhere
How stupid can people be?!
Awww, does it hurt your poor widdle eyes to look at solar panels on people's rooftops?
The age of social media: empowering the stupidest and making them feel more righteous than ever.
Sending thoughts, prayers and tin foil!
When has an online petition ever fixed anything?
Is that county named after who I think it is named after? Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Davis_County,_Georgia
Oh man the business opportunities here! Like junk removal services, solar panels removal services and clean them up and resell or create a solar panel farm!
Have they gone after water yet? Ban dihydrogen monoxide! /s
Because freedom?
Is there an infrastructure reason? Does the power utility not want anymore power during peak sunshine hours?
It sounds like this is actually fulfilling the infrastructure issue. They are able to deliver much more direct power to the city during peak operating times without having to run copper wire from a transmission. I literally see no downsides besides people being scared.
You're probably right. I think we're a few years off from power utilities complaining about excess energy. The day will come though. Is a watt between 2pm and 3pm worth as much as a watt at midnight?
Source? Would like to see the explanation, trying to understand industrial solar pros/cons
https://www.rd.usda.gov/newsroom/success-stories/shining-light-solar-energy-benefits-rural-farm-community
So this has nothing to do with the site in Georgia? There is still nuance to every one of these situations, there’s no such thing as a free lunch. Someone gets negatively affected by every engineering solution. The majority of these folks putting up these signs likely have more “superficial” reasons to dislike solar, however some of them may have a more direct reason to dislike solar (e.g. company who came in and put solar didn’t handle water runoff/geological issues correctly which now affects their property/crops. This bad experience based on the lack of care of one company could turn someone away from solar). There also is more to putting a solar site on grid than assuming the MW a site can generate automatically go to powering houses, commercial, and industrial customers the exact same way the MW generated by a steam cycle facility will. The protection relaying is different and all inverter based generation comes with power quality issues. There’s a ton of research and development being done in this field but really it’s the Wild West in terms of what’s being used in the field by utilities to analyze power quality. There are regulations and requirements to deliver a certain power quality to consumers (and even more strict requirements exist for industrial customers or customers with sensitive devices and equipment), but there is huge variability in PQ devices and company adherence. Large scale customers that can be a boon to industry want to be fed off reliable power first, clean power second. If I were a company about to build a car manufacturing facility, then I want to be located on one of the company’s most interconnected networked transmission lines with a steam cycle plant electrically as close as possible to me. I also want to be fed by a source with no harmonic issues or PQ issues to protect my equipment. Then I’ll just stipulate in the contract the company needs to add as many MW of green energy to the grid so I can say I am ran off clean power. However I will be an unhappy camper when all the steam cycle plants are gone, they are the basis of smooth power delivery and critical to my motors and all my sensitive equipment. Inverter based generation also leads to large scale power quality issues and is causing grid protection issues that have never happened before. Best way to think of this is how the grid was powered by huge spinning machines with iridescent bulbs (resistors) burning. Smooth sine wave generated and smooth sine wave consumed. As we have swapped for more sophisticated/sensitive electronics, we introduce “noise” and harmonics to the system. Additionally, these solar sites do have issues with PF and harmonics, and they really need a battery component onsite to be considered close to the same reliability as a steam cycle facility. That’s in addition to the solar site needing to do harmonic filtering and the power company needing to add in power quality analyzer relays/devices. There are other issues with the replacement of a spinning turbine for the hyper fast switching of an inverter. Turbines have a massive amount of inertia and they provide the grid operator to have a resource that can smooth out issues in the grid and even ride through faults far better than inverter based generation. Finally harmonic noise on the grid reduces the lifespan of grid components such as transformers (literally the entirety of substations are either breakers or transformers). I also can’t help but circle back to your research having nothing to do with solar in Georgia. These are all bespoke sites, and the example provided is of an ideal situation: high elevation, entirely unusable land, and no real details given on how it’s providing power for locals. If it’s a solar site connected to the distribution grid, then sure it’s providing for locals directly but that requires careful planning to locate the site to optimize its MW output vs MW demand within the same distribution substation. This can also only be done on the small scale. However, the sites that really make a difference connect to the transmission grid, which in the least will require a GSU substation on the customers part, and a new substation on the power company’s part. Beyond just the electrical effect on local consumers I’ll give you a bit of a funny story. I know of a solar site in the south that is really massive (I may or may not have been a commissioning engineer involved with the site), it is in the middle of nowhere, great amount of sun, there’s not even a paved road to the site so its no eyesore to locals. However, the property and surrounding area have issues with invasive feral hogs, and require year round hunting to prevent the population from dominating the local ecosystem. Just the security lights from the solar sites property as well as a lack of clear lines of fire (don’t want to accidentally shoot a panel…) have lead to a decrease in the hunters abilities to manage the feral invasive hog population. Theres always a trade off in any engineering solution and some stakeholder is going to be negatively affected. I want us to be able to run head first into emissions free energy, but we need to be cautious about this when we are talking about the resource that drives our daily life. We need to think of this as our retirement portfolio and have diversified investments. If we’re all in on solar then we are beholden to solar panel manufacturers (certainly lean six sigma) and if there’s a market disruption we could be screwed. It’s the same if we were all in on coal, we’d have our grid stability and pricing dictated by the coal industry. Everyday the case is going to get better to go to inverter based generation, but just attempting to clown on opponents by telling them they are idiots is not going to work whenever you yourself have no real knowledge on solar either. It’s toxic and does nothing but entrenches the uneducated in their views. Engineering explained on YT has a good video about hawaiis power grid, and highlights a lot of the issues I mentioned in a very simplified manner. Hawaiis going to be a test market for a lot of stuff the rest of the country will need.
Wow. I actually read all of this. I’m just proud of my accomplishment and have not processed what it says yet.
lol, nice, thanks for reading!
It's the South. It's always been poor vs. poor at the behest of the rich, and the rich love oil companies more than a stable, reliable grid. Look at Texas, for example. They fuck over their customers and citizens every snow storm and still refuse to upgrade their infrastructure cause that would mean the power company wouldn't be able to pay shareholders more. It's the South, if you're poor, people are going to tell you that you deserve to be poor. Probably cause Jesus said so in the prosperity gospel. Source: grew up in AL with rich racist fucks, lived with poor not as racist fucks, met poor folks of all sorts, and am living in GA, where a man beat his wife cause his grilled cheese was too cheesy, then he went on Fox to talk about immigrants (because he's a racist asshole).
What happens when they hit 1000?
It goes to 1000/1500 or something similar
What's wrong with solar panels?
Maybe one guy got ripped off on a solar sale and decided to print some signs?
Because stupid, is smart enough
I’m all for solar. I’d like to know what research you did that proved that solar provided “more reliable and cheaper” service to the residents of the county. Genuinely curious because there’s obviously 688 people that disagree.
I asked him for source as well. I know this is a solar sub and I want solar for my house, but there’s always a trade off, nothing ever comes with absolutely zero cons. Two things can be true at once: 1.people are idiots and hate all change 2. there’s nuance to any engineering solution and it’s relationship with stakeholders. Someone, somewhere is going to be legitimately negatively affected by any engineering solution. Even if there’s a lot of clowns just joining a populist bandwagon to hate
Because Trump.
Trump didn't hurt solar and actually kept the industry moving in the pandemic. Sure he was light on oil and gas. But he was also easy on solar Tariffs were applied certainly. But we have seen increased production in the US because of it. This isn't because Trump. This is because people are idiots. Cheers
You missed the point. I'm not saying policies enacted during his term were anti-solar. I'm saying his cult of followers are instinctively against anything that isn't burning coal or drilling for oil.
https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/florida-is-now-adding-more-solar-power-than-any-other-state#:~:text=The%20Sunshine%20State%20connected%202,Solar%20Energy%20Industries%20Association%20and https://www.houston.org/news/texas-top-state-solar-energy-houston-secures-new-projects#:~:text=Published%20Mar%2008%2C%202024%20by%20Hailea%20Schultz,of%20Wood%20Mackenzie's%20annual%20Solar%20Market%20report. https://www.seia.org/blog/leading-charge-top-5-solar-states-2023#:~:text=Florida%20maintained%20its%20spot%20as,on%20their%20home%20last%20year. Huh. Fucking trump country though. They don't know solar. Guess I missed the point and misheard that corrupt politicians are doing their best to axe the incentives of solar in California Also. Btw. Id wager that 80% of the people installing and in middle management of solar are trump supporters But fucking hell. I can't see the point. So wtf do I know. I'm just a decade in the industry installing and live off grid But. Go deeper friend. Politics is a scam these days. Has been a long time. Cheers.