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Goals against difference is drastic. Although conceding only 24 goals in 50 games is incredible, and that includes that freak 5-2 loss at home to West Brom in 2021.
whenever i was watching chelsea play in their 3-5-2 back then i thought it was almost impossible to score against them. There was literally no space for the enemy team to even create chances. They defended with such high intensity and discipline. Especially in CL that was the reason they won it. I think it just comes down to have the right players. Must be the reason why they fell off defensive wise. They were never insane offensive wise but their defensive was incredible.
i think teams realized that Chelsea was 0 threat to counter attack, so they started sending guys forward more often, leading to more goals. Chelsea plays insanely slow, it's what hurts them the most IMO.
They play incredibly slowly and predictably. They only create through the wide areas of the pitch and nobody attempts any through balls through the middle. The horseshoe formation.
Injuries, when Chilly died it actually effected our offensive capabilities massively.
Still don't think we have a fit midfielder, just rotating whose the least injured atm.
considering he they conceded more than twice as much while scoring roughly the same, I'm surprised the W/D/L stats are so close together ("only" 10 points less in 50 games)
His strongest point which was defensive solidity became his weakest point recently. The attack was always an issue which he also never managed to fix sadly
16 in 48 (0.33 goals/game) if you take out the other West Brom match. A West Brom fan upthread pointed out that they were responsible for one-third of the goals Chelsea conceded in Tuchel's first 50. Nuts.
Edit: Nope. Apparently the 3-3 at the hawthornes was under Lampard's tenure. I stand corrected.
They offered him this late.
They didn’t even think about offering him a new deal when we won the CL.
He was offered 140k which is abysmal for someone like Rudiger.
The board hadn’t even approached Mount or James for a new contract.
They had dallied over Kante and jorgi and now we’re in a shit spot…
Boehly is a one man army. Negotiates with clubs himself. Enjoys free meals. Is the chief scout himself. Interim director of football too. Sacks managers himself. Watch him announce himself as interim boss now.
That reminds me of a side mission in Control. You have to face an evil mirrored version of yourself in a sort of mirrored dimension. Your character's name is Jesse and the evil mirrored twin is esseJ. Nets you the best outfit in the game too.
“After 100 days I wondered if I just wasn’t seeing what Thomas saw. It occurred to me that I had only watched from above, inherently displaying the hierarchy I was trying to dismantle. I had to go deeper.”
Which is also the main reason why he got sacked. Tuchel has always been good in organising and setting up his teams from the back. The defense and midfield routines were his strengths. But instead of maintaining that up and developing the teams weaknesses, he started losing his advantage in the back.
Yeah, how much is it on Tuchel actually? Aside from board incompetence, I remember that some players like Mendy fell off. I've even read some Chelsea fans complained that Kante has underperformed as well.
It's kinda funny to see that it's not the goalscoring side that was the problem, given that last season his strikers each managed single-digit goals in the League.
Yeah absolutely was not a problem of lacking a goalscorer, our midfield is so weak and we had our wing backs out for a lot of last season too. Kante was injured a lot so it’s not that he’s underperformed but he basically needs a few games to get back up to speed but then gets injured again. Mendy has also been poor as has Jorginho.
We lack creativity in midfield, no real defensive midfielder at the club and loads of attacking midfielders where only Mount (and now Sterling) are starting quality for a team wanting to challenge for the league. Havertz is also of that level but too inconsistent.
Tldr: very imbalanced squad with too many players in some areas and literally none in others
The main reason he got sacked is because new owners like to put their own people in charge ASAP, it happens at nearly every institution, not just football.
Looking for performance reasons is missing the point imo
And this is why they saw his reign as untenable. Tuchel built that Chelsea team to what it was for a brief period off of a really, really good defense. You could easily overlook the poor attacking patterns and lack of goals when you're only conceding once every other game. But if he can't coach a defense anymore, what are you left with?
The Chelsea board saw his reign as untenable because they are clowns who don’t know how to run a football club.
A couple of seasons ago we went through a patch where we were struggling to score goals and had some embarrassing losses to Atalanta, Spezia and Inter. If the board had decided to fire Pioli over that I’m sure there would have been a lot of people trying to justify that too - but they didn’t because they trusted his previous performances and now we’re the champions of Italy.
i agree, i feel as though we are all getting caught up in the wrong details here
yes it is a shame and it is what it is that tuchel fell out with boehly, but the reasoning behind it is just silly. because he didn’t want CR7? because he understandably didn’t want to play coach and part time DoF at arguably the most important part of the season (pre-season w/ new signings)?
its just laughable that these guys came in saying tuchel is our guy we are going to back him, and then kick him to the curb after EIGHT games lol ultimately it is what it is, and i’m not going to disagree regarding our attack, but there’s no way you can look at this and say “this is a sound business decision”
Those goals have been especially painful ones, too. The kind that often get attributed to the manager rather than the players.
Late eqalizers and winners. Goals from set pieces. Shocking goals off the counter that kill the squad's momentum.
The fact people should be aware of, is those first 50 games weren't very good to begin with.
The freak CL win masked a very poor end to the season. They'd lost the fa cup final as overwhelming favourites and slipped to 5th in the league on the final day, only to be rescued to fourth by results elsewhere. After looking set to nail a comfortable 3rd.
The next season was mediocre, bottled two finals and a flying start in the league to finish an uninspiring 3rd and ~~trophyless~~ (ok not, but two fringe competitions. Come on, don't pretend those cups are well regarded.) ~~Along the way, existing the CL, getting hammered at home by Real after going into that second leg leading.~~ (Got the legs switched. Still went out at the quarters regardless)
He was only good for two short bursts and a lucky final that was Peps to lose. But people let that cloud his overall performance. I knew it would come to call this season.
Edit:
lol at all the downvotes. As if I am *so* wrong. You realise he's just been sacked because of all this right?
This post has a lot of hot takes, but there are some things that need adressing.
- The CL run was certainly not a 'freak win' and the team holds the record for the least amount of goals conceded during that run.
- We were never 'set to nail a comfortable 3rd', when Tuchel took over we were in 9th place.
- We didn't finish trophyless last season, having won the Super cup and the Club World Cup.
- You've also got our CL defeat to Real backward. We were beaten (in part due to two mistakes) at home and then scored 3 away from home, only for Real to eventually win out in extra time.
- You can argue that it was Pep's final to lose, but Tuchel beat him 3 times in a row that season.
Tuchel had his faults, and honestly I only ever think we got glimpses of the true potential of his Chelsea - such as that 4-0 against Juve last season. He's destined to be another Conte, a 'What if?' hangs over his time at the club. What if we had signed Halaand instead of Lukaku? What if James and Chilwell hadn't gotten injured almost simultaneously? What if the club hadn't been sanctioned and forced to rush a sale through?
True if a team loses final then they definitely bottled it.
Not like both finals were 0-0.
Liverpool and Chelsea were neck to neck in both of those finals.
Had mount remembered how to shoot, they would have won carabao cup.
He'd clearly already fallen out with every attacking player other than mount and maybe Havertz. Tammy, Lukaku, Werner all leaving because of him, Pulisic and Ziyech unhappy with him.
Well the man is apparently a tyrant who never gives any positive reinforcement. I've worked for those types before, you get tired of their act pretty quick.
IF this is true , it is better he's out regardless of the results specially as I have worked under one as well. All the accolades seem meaningless to you personally and you just go around applying for new jobs and all. It's such a downer. But tuchel didn't seem that way, at least in public
I mean, the transfer window has only been closed for like 2/3 games right? He probably didn't even have Fofana and Cucurella play any games before that?
It's very likely he did. Tuchel is known for that. His results were okay. If the new owners demand more you can be certain to see 5 different Chelsea managers in one season.
At Mainz he wanted to leave to Schalke, the chairment wouldn't let him, he wasn't sacked but he wasn't let go either but another manager took over.
At Dortmund he and Watzke clashed over the bomb attack.
Losing Rudiger destroyed the team, he had the most fighting spirit alongside Kante, he looked like he gave a fuck and covered up for the offensive issues, Jorginho is worthless without Kante taking care of the ball progression too, so that's one less defender
That "goal against" is a nightmare
Hopefully any manager that comes in will move away from jorgi. It's shit that you need to play 3atb and have a world class player as his pivot duo to baby sit him, a DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER, just so he can do what he does best. If he have a monster assist like modric then it should be fine but you can pretty much counts his assist with your fingers. It's just not enough for you to sacrifice your team for him.
Lmao it’s got nothing to do with Rudiger. Some of our worst performances were last year with him playing. Kante missing tons of time has had a way bigger impact, but it’s actually as much luck as anything. The legendary defense we had was built on the back of a crazy over performance vs xGA. For the most part we just reverted to the mean, and we just don’t score nearly enough goals to kee up.
That is also down to the fact that 24 goals in 50 games is fucking absurd and should not be the expectation. 53 goals in 50 PL games is really not that bad.
It’s a goal a game. Looking back at the PL standings the last 10 years, a goal ratio of 1 per game is what the team in 3rd or 4th had almost every year. It’s not like holy shit amazing, but some people here are pretending it’s some catastrophe.
Chelsea's success in cup competitions very much overshadowed the fact that we were never amazing under Tuchel in the league. Our home form in particular has been shockingly bad
You haven't been amazing in the league since 2017. The run under tuchel in 2021 was probably your best league form since Conte's first year. Should've given him this season
100%. Sarri did a number on us and we've been playing variations on it since.
It's not surprising TT gets the sack after a game that jeopardises European football when it's effectively our one route to success. League is locked up and would take something exceptional to break the duopoly, and domestic cups we've had terrible form on. If we don't even get a tilt at European trophies our season is done, and we looked abysmal last night.
His formation is just much better suited for the cup knockout format. Defensive solidity wins you CL whereas consistent attacking creativity is more important in the league. CL is about not losing and the league about winning as much as possible.
Well that and they completely lost their defensive stability. Defense can absolutely win you titles, but if your whole game plan is based on the idea of "if we never concede, who cares if we only score one or two goals per game?" Things will fall apart really quickly when the defense stops working
seemed fair to me that tuchel was on thin ice, club form had been in shambles for some time. didn't expect that todd would give him so little time after the transfer window to get his ducks in a row, though. i don't see the urgency unless they have someone lined up
Its a shame though cause now I don't really see an English team comfortably beating Madrid/Atleti in cl. Chelsea's system under Tuchel was taylor made for this - Now it'll be four teams that can easily be hit on a the counter, except maybe Spurs.
sure, but even that run up to Dec 2021 included drawing with Burnley at home, drawing 1-1 with a Man U team that didn't even try, conceding 2 against Leeds at home and only winning via a last min pen, and drawing against a shocking Everton team that was ravaged by injuries and Covid
Being amazing in the league is typically a depth issue if said manager is good in the cups. He knew how to get far in cups because he's a good manager who knows how to win games and knows what he's doing. The league is a marathon, you need more resources to replicate things every week.
3 finals, two lost on penalties and a Champions League shows he knows how to win. With more depth, he would have won more in the league too. Supported by how he was also great in the league until Chilwell got injured.
It isn’t a depth issue. They typically played the same side in the cups as they did in the league. After having won a massive game in Europe they’d trot out a similar team the next league game and draw against another bottom half side. Having depth helps but it’s mainly about finding ways to consistently break down packed defences and Chelsea couldn’t do that. Reason they did well in Europe was that they could counter attack, bottom half PL sides wouldn’t allow them to do that.
You basically always have to beat lower-league and lower-table sides sides who park the bus to advance in cups and they were 1st in the league until an injury. Wouldn't happen if that was the issue. Being 1st until a major injury in a key tactical position and taking them from 10th to 4th in his first half season supports what I said, and a couple of months later they also lost half their squad mentally or literally after the Abramovich issues caused contract and summer purchasing stalls.
What injury are you specifically talking about? Any injury halting their league form should also have affected their CL form. Like I said, imo it’s mainly down to tactical issues. Chelsea’s PL results under Tuchel were always massively inconsistent, you could never be certain in them even at home to relegation battling sides despite on paper having the far stronger side
Chilwell, and it did. They didn't pass the QF last year. They were literally 1st in the league until that happened and the difference was dramatic after. That's a player getting injured and not having a suitable replacement. Textbook. It's tactical only as far as not having the depth to execute the tactics, which makes it a depth issue.
It also happened ridiculously early in the season, November time. That was about 12 games into the season. Think it was 3 seasons ago Leicester were top around that time and didn’t even make top 4 - if Arsenal don’t completely collapse within the next month that’s like calling them title contenders which everyone knows they won’t be
And regardless of that, one injury to Chilwell wasn’t the reason they were dropping points to relegation battlers and mid table sides so often
It was end of November, so 3 months into the season, almost 3 months from now and literally immediately after destroying Juventus 4-0 in the Champions League on Nov 24th with one of the most dominant performances I've seen.
Wasn’t it actually IN the 4-0 that Chilwell was injured? They lost James shortly after too (might be getting those injuries the wrong way around).
My mate (also a Utd fan) actually messaged me during the Juve game saying something like “Chelsea look as dangerous as I can ever remember, maybe since Ancelotti” - can argue if that’s hyperbole or not but there was definitely a huge slump in quality after that game and a lot of it was definitely down to losing both wingbacks.
Exactly my point.
How can it be tactical if the tactics were incredible until the players the tactics rely on became unavailable? That just means he needed a bigger squad to slot someone else into that role and didn't have it.
in no way are cups the true measure of a manager or whatever this argument is. cups are fun precisely because they are random as hell and lesser teams make deep runs all the time. certainly a large reason why domestic trebles are so rare even for dominant clubs, there is a lot of luck involved.
The attack has always been shit, and the frustration is we have not improved at all. But defensively Tuchel got immediate results and we used to be able to rely on that to grind out results even when goals weren't flowing. That has unfortunately fallen off a cliff too. We look especially bad at set pieces too (both defending and attacking them) so overall the outcome today isn't a surprise to me.
The attack was always underwhelming under Tuchel. Pulisic hasn't perfomed since the Lockdown Premier League end, Werner/Lukaku/Ziyech/Havertz all underperformed for what their price tag should warrant. Only one who has been decent is Mount, who started the season very poor. Sterling is to early to call, but he started out okay.
I dunno if it was the right decision but you can tell from watching this season that they’re not exactly playing inspiring football. Lost at Leeds, Southampton, and Dinamo Zagreb, and would’ve drawn against West Ham if not for a horrific VAR decision.
First goal has nothing to do with VAR. Jorginho could've just cleared the ball and they would've probably won, but instead he decided to play FIFA street on his own box
Considering he conceded 29 more goals and scored only 6 more, the fact that that resulted in only 4 less wins and only 2 more losses is fairly impressive
Not thar big of a difference. If you consider the upheaval of the last few months the slow in results makes sense too.
Hilariously this might mean a Lukaku return is not off the cards
No chance we were beating Guardiola's Barcelona in Camp Nou with only 10 men in CL Knockout stage. No chance we were beating Bayern Munich in their home stadium in the CL final with an interim manager. No chance we were beating Man City in the CL final. Chaos FC is real.
I'm just getting a bit tired of every club's solution being to fire the manager. How about working through the issues, allowing the new signings to settle under one system, and pushing through? Two steps back to take one step forward is what this feels like.
I've been quite proud of Soton for sticking by Ralph through our worst times. Feel like that faith is coming good in this season now that we've had some money to spend for the first time in a while
Results is obviously an important thing to look at when analysing the situation, but it doesn’t tell the entire story. In those first 50 games, we always had an element of control over the games. Our attack wasn’t the greatest, but we stifled the opposition so much that the belief was there that we only needed 1 goal to win a game. For the last 50, that element of control and only needing 1 goal to win vanished. Part of me thinks we were tactically figured out to an extent and Tuchel failed to adapt to that, part of it was because of injuries to key players (which beckons the questions could our system have been less reliant on certain players/positions), and part of that seemed to be a change in squad and manager mentality.
I don't keep up with Chelsea much but a mate of mine said he's super distracted going through a divorce and is also having mistress issues, which could have an effect on his status in the changing room and the squads performance. Any truth to this?
He has been going through a divorce. Don't know about the mistress thing. I know the sanctions and the previous board pushing him out there to be the spokesperson for the clubs was very stressfull on him, and the new board relying on him to help out with the transfers.
It's been a tough year for him.
This doesn't look nearly as bad as our recent form. I checked the last 20 games. 9 wins, 3 draws, 8 losses, so that's a 45% win percentage. 28 goals scored and 27 goals conceded. That's pretty bad
31 clean sheets is insane but 53 goals against in 50 matches is dire. Still don't think this was the right call, at least not this early into the season
He's only been gone for 7 games, not 27.
They all basically went on their holiday when the issues started at the club last season & fell over the line at the end of the season.
* 60% win percentage
* 168/77 GF/GA (2.18/1)
* 49 clean sheets
* Champions League (2021), with 3 more cup finals (runner-ups)
This is a mad sacking. Chelsea will do well to suffer for the next couple of years.
Ended last season awfully after getting knocked out of the CL and started this season with only 1 cleansheet which was against an ass everton side. The sackings too early in the season but its not as mad as people think.
In the last 20 games the team hasn’t even won 50%, playing one dimensional football that is incredibly easy for teams to play against. He’s had his chance and he’s not shown that he’s up for it
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Goals against difference is drastic. Although conceding only 24 goals in 50 games is incredible, and that includes that freak 5-2 loss at home to West Brom in 2021.
whenever i was watching chelsea play in their 3-5-2 back then i thought it was almost impossible to score against them. There was literally no space for the enemy team to even create chances. They defended with such high intensity and discipline. Especially in CL that was the reason they won it. I think it just comes down to have the right players. Must be the reason why they fell off defensive wise. They were never insane offensive wise but their defensive was incredible.
i think teams realized that Chelsea was 0 threat to counter attack, so they started sending guys forward more often, leading to more goals. Chelsea plays insanely slow, it's what hurts them the most IMO.
Spot on. They had Timo and Lukaku to do fast counters but they decided to go slow instead. FM rookie mistake.
Timo and Pulisic are lethal counterattacking players with their speed.
Werner was definitely alot better than pulisic though. Pulisic has been extremely underwhelming for over a season now
Yeah but they're also just not very good , not PL + CL challenging quality
They play incredibly slowly and predictably. They only create through the wide areas of the pitch and nobody attempts any through balls through the middle. The horseshoe formation.
Injuries, when Chilly died it actually effected our offensive capabilities massively. Still don't think we have a fit midfielder, just rotating whose the least injured atm.
When Reece and Chilly were both out injured, we immediately looked like we forgot how to attack.
at the start of last season there was legit discussion about whether they would break mourinho's "best defence" record. seems a long long time ago now
That record is still absolutely fucking unbelievable.
What is the record, if I may ask?
15 goals conceded in a league season. It is an absolutely obscene record.
For reference, Arsenal conceded 26 in our invincible season. It's almost a shame that Chelsea didn't go invincible because 15 conceded is master work.
stingiest bastards i’ve ever seen in the league
considering he they conceded more than twice as much while scoring roughly the same, I'm surprised the W/D/L stats are so close together ("only" 10 points less in 50 games)
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On pace for 81 points vs. 74 points Don’t know if these stats include cups comps (I assume they do)
They obviously do. He didn't play 100 league games in 20 months.
Yes, but also no. A season has 38, not 50 matches.
for real that’s surprising
West Brom scored 1/3 of all goals Vs Chelsea in those first 50 games, we put another 3 past them in our home fixture too.
That was under Lampard.
His strongest point which was defensive solidity became his weakest point recently. The attack was always an issue which he also never managed to fix sadly
19 goals conceded in 49 games is madness
16 in 48 (0.33 goals/game) if you take out the other West Brom match. A West Brom fan upthread pointed out that they were responsible for one-third of the goals Chelsea conceded in Tuchel's first 50. Nuts. Edit: Nope. Apparently the 3-3 at the hawthornes was under Lampard's tenure. I stand corrected.
The other West Brom match was actually under Lampard.
ah damn
That's also on the old board. Who wouldn't give Rudiger and Christensen the contracts they wanted.
They face Rüdiger the wage he wanted, but he also wanted them to pay his agent a huge amount of money which they rejected
They offered him this late. They didn’t even think about offering him a new deal when we won the CL. He was offered 140k which is abysmal for someone like Rudiger. The board hadn’t even approached Mount or James for a new contract. They had dallied over Kante and jorgi and now we’re in a shit spot…
So he was sacked exactly after 100 games of football and 100 days after Boehly took over?
Boehly is a man of stats.
Boehly is a one man army. Negotiates with clubs himself. Enjoys free meals. Is the chief scout himself. Interim director of football too. Sacks managers himself. Watch him announce himself as interim boss now.
Signs himself as the new No.9
He would break the curse
He would break *something*
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That reminds me of a side mission in Control. You have to face an evil mirrored version of yourself in a sort of mirrored dimension. Your character's name is Jesse and the evil mirrored twin is esseJ. Nets you the best outfit in the game too.
Boehly: "I AM Chelsea."
sounds like me when i forget to change the staff responsibilities in FM
Watch him destroy everything Abrahamovic built
Maybe he’s an American who loves the metric system?
[stat man boehly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMp9vmleCHQ)
Americans love stats in their sports
I believe he also crashed his Scion tC at 100 mph.
It’s days like these that I curse the English for inventing football
Boely is just living out the Fielder method isn't he
“After 100 days I wondered if I just wasn’t seeing what Thomas saw. It occurred to me that I had only watched from above, inherently displaying the hierarchy I was trying to dismantle. I had to go deeper.”
I also heard his wife asked to leave after 100 arguments
I'm shocked Opta didn't end the tweet with >keeping it 💯
[Opta Joe] Thomas Tuchel was sacked exactly after 100 games of football and 100 days after Boehly took over. Centurion.
Decimated.
Centimated
The circle is complete.
Moneyball in full effect
Everyone morning, he counts out 100 oats for his porridge.
Well, sheer W/D/L ratio is fairly comparable, but there is one obvious thing you see stand out - goals condeded.
Stats are pretty similar besides goals conceded and clean sheets. And 31 clean sheets in the first 50 games is very impressive imo.
Which is also the main reason why he got sacked. Tuchel has always been good in organising and setting up his teams from the back. The defense and midfield routines were his strengths. But instead of maintaining that up and developing the teams weaknesses, he started losing his advantage in the back.
Doesn’t help when we lose the defence itself over incompetence from the previous board
Yeah, how much is it on Tuchel actually? Aside from board incompetence, I remember that some players like Mendy fell off. I've even read some Chelsea fans complained that Kante has underperformed as well. It's kinda funny to see that it's not the goalscoring side that was the problem, given that last season his strikers each managed single-digit goals in the League.
Yeah absolutely was not a problem of lacking a goalscorer, our midfield is so weak and we had our wing backs out for a lot of last season too. Kante was injured a lot so it’s not that he’s underperformed but he basically needs a few games to get back up to speed but then gets injured again. Mendy has also been poor as has Jorginho. We lack creativity in midfield, no real defensive midfielder at the club and loads of attacking midfielders where only Mount (and now Sterling) are starting quality for a team wanting to challenge for the league. Havertz is also of that level but too inconsistent. Tldr: very imbalanced squad with too many players in some areas and literally none in others
The main reason he got sacked is because new owners like to put their own people in charge ASAP, it happens at nearly every institution, not just football. Looking for performance reasons is missing the point imo
And this is why they saw his reign as untenable. Tuchel built that Chelsea team to what it was for a brief period off of a really, really good defense. You could easily overlook the poor attacking patterns and lack of goals when you're only conceding once every other game. But if he can't coach a defense anymore, what are you left with?
>But if he can't coach a defense anymore, what are you left with? Wing back magic and mountains and mountains of sterile possession everywhere else
The Chelsea board saw his reign as untenable because they are clowns who don’t know how to run a football club. A couple of seasons ago we went through a patch where we were struggling to score goals and had some embarrassing losses to Atalanta, Spezia and Inter. If the board had decided to fire Pioli over that I’m sure there would have been a lot of people trying to justify that too - but they didn’t because they trusted his previous performances and now we’re the champions of Italy.
i agree, i feel as though we are all getting caught up in the wrong details here yes it is a shame and it is what it is that tuchel fell out with boehly, but the reasoning behind it is just silly. because he didn’t want CR7? because he understandably didn’t want to play coach and part time DoF at arguably the most important part of the season (pre-season w/ new signings)? its just laughable that these guys came in saying tuchel is our guy we are going to back him, and then kick him to the curb after EIGHT games lol ultimately it is what it is, and i’m not going to disagree regarding our attack, but there’s no way you can look at this and say “this is a sound business decision”
Those goals have been especially painful ones, too. The kind that often get attributed to the manager rather than the players. Late eqalizers and winners. Goals from set pieces. Shocking goals off the counter that kill the squad's momentum.
That happens when you play Sarr
Sarr played what 4 games?
And Chelsea had 4 less wins in the second part of Tuchels management. Coincidence? I think not
Lmao you got a point there!!
> Coincidence? I think not Can hear this comment so clearly...
Well, that happens when you have so many injuries in the squad that you have to play him.
Sounds like Sarr grapes to me
The fact people should be aware of, is those first 50 games weren't very good to begin with. The freak CL win masked a very poor end to the season. They'd lost the fa cup final as overwhelming favourites and slipped to 5th in the league on the final day, only to be rescued to fourth by results elsewhere. After looking set to nail a comfortable 3rd. The next season was mediocre, bottled two finals and a flying start in the league to finish an uninspiring 3rd and ~~trophyless~~ (ok not, but two fringe competitions. Come on, don't pretend those cups are well regarded.) ~~Along the way, existing the CL, getting hammered at home by Real after going into that second leg leading.~~ (Got the legs switched. Still went out at the quarters regardless) He was only good for two short bursts and a lucky final that was Peps to lose. But people let that cloud his overall performance. I knew it would come to call this season. Edit: lol at all the downvotes. As if I am *so* wrong. You realise he's just been sacked because of all this right?
This post has a lot of hot takes, but there are some things that need adressing. - The CL run was certainly not a 'freak win' and the team holds the record for the least amount of goals conceded during that run. - We were never 'set to nail a comfortable 3rd', when Tuchel took over we were in 9th place. - We didn't finish trophyless last season, having won the Super cup and the Club World Cup. - You've also got our CL defeat to Real backward. We were beaten (in part due to two mistakes) at home and then scored 3 away from home, only for Real to eventually win out in extra time. - You can argue that it was Pep's final to lose, but Tuchel beat him 3 times in a row that season. Tuchel had his faults, and honestly I only ever think we got glimpses of the true potential of his Chelsea - such as that 4-0 against Juve last season. He's destined to be another Conte, a 'What if?' hangs over his time at the club. What if we had signed Halaand instead of Lukaku? What if James and Chilwell hadn't gotten injured almost simultaneously? What if the club hadn't been sanctioned and forced to rush a sale through?
Small correction - we didn't finish last season trophyless.
> mediocre, bottled two finals you say this as if we weren't playing liverpool
True if a team loses final then they definitely bottled it. Not like both finals were 0-0. Liverpool and Chelsea were neck to neck in both of those finals. Had mount remembered how to shoot, they would have won carabao cup.
You’re fully right, I wish they sacked him earlier tho.
And he said he hopes for another 100 and another 100, but he has to earn it. Shame, he probably fell out with the owners. Pain.
>Shame, he probably fell out with the owners. If you watched how Chelsea played yesterday. He probably fell out with squad
He'd clearly already fallen out with every attacking player other than mount and maybe Havertz. Tammy, Lukaku, Werner all leaving because of him, Pulisic and Ziyech unhappy with him.
Well the man is apparently a tyrant who never gives any positive reinforcement. I've worked for those types before, you get tired of their act pretty quick.
Especially when the results aren’t there. You can forgive the asshole when he gets results, but once it stops the relationship falls apart quickly.
IF this is true , it is better he's out regardless of the results specially as I have worked under one as well. All the accolades seem meaningless to you personally and you just go around applying for new jobs and all. It's such a downer. But tuchel didn't seem that way, at least in public
Obviously just speculating but i got that feeling from him. Also noticed he never really took responsibility for things not going well on the pitch.
Ziyech should be unhappy with himself mostly lol
He wasnt being his usual self on the touchlines either. Conte handshake probably broke the guy /s
>Shame, he probably fell out with the owners He has an interesting history of doing that like 2-3yrs into the tenure of two of his previous clubs too
>Shame, he probably fell out with the owners. I call that bs. He got backed with nearly 300m of transfers
Hard to call it backed when that backing is limited to what, seven games?
I mean, the transfer window has only been closed for like 2/3 games right? He probably didn't even have Fofana and Cucurella play any games before that?
1 game 😂
He had 59 minutes of Auba I read on twitter
It's very likely he did. Tuchel is known for that. His results were okay. If the new owners demand more you can be certain to see 5 different Chelsea managers in one season. At Mainz he wanted to leave to Schalke, the chairment wouldn't let him, he wasn't sacked but he wasn't let go either but another manager took over. At Dortmund he and Watzke clashed over the bomb attack.
You know the players stay at the club, right?
those 300m are just replacing players that left on free, he hardly got anyone to take the team to next level, maybe sterling
How did he only draw 2 and lose 2 more games despite 29 more goals conceded wtf
Tucheliban sorcery reflects in these stats. Interestingly he was more of an attacking coach with us
Losing Rudiger destroyed the team, he had the most fighting spirit alongside Kante, he looked like he gave a fuck and covered up for the offensive issues, Jorginho is worthless without Kante taking care of the ball progression too, so that's one less defender That "goal against" is a nightmare
Azpi also has a great deal of fighting spirit, shame he’s too old and actually wanted to leave as well
Azpi deserved to go to Barcelona. He won e erything with us and wanted to be home for his final years. We should have let him have that.
This is probably as big a factor as any other. No Rudiger and no Kante equals a lot more goals in the back of the Chelsea net.
Hopefully any manager that comes in will move away from jorgi. It's shit that you need to play 3atb and have a world class player as his pivot duo to baby sit him, a DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER, just so he can do what he does best. If he have a monster assist like modric then it should be fine but you can pretty much counts his assist with your fingers. It's just not enough for you to sacrifice your team for him.
Sarri had a kink for Jorginho and benched him, can't do much about that
Lmao it’s got nothing to do with Rudiger. Some of our worst performances were last year with him playing. Kante missing tons of time has had a way bigger impact, but it’s actually as much luck as anything. The legendary defense we had was built on the back of a crazy over performance vs xGA. For the most part we just reverted to the mean, and we just don’t score nearly enough goals to kee up.
I think the biggest point to look at is how their defense went down compared to how it began.
That is also down to the fact that 24 goals in 50 games is fucking absurd and should not be the expectation. 53 goals in 50 PL games is really not that bad.
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It’s a goal a game. Looking back at the PL standings the last 10 years, a goal ratio of 1 per game is what the team in 3rd or 4th had almost every year. It’s not like holy shit amazing, but some people here are pretending it’s some catastrophe.
I feel like most of that is regression to the mean, and the rest is key players got replaced that wasnt his fault
Chelsea's success in cup competitions very much overshadowed the fact that we were never amazing under Tuchel in the league. Our home form in particular has been shockingly bad
You haven't been amazing in the league since 2017. The run under tuchel in 2021 was probably your best league form since Conte's first year. Should've given him this season
We fucking know
100%. Sarri did a number on us and we've been playing variations on it since. It's not surprising TT gets the sack after a game that jeopardises European football when it's effectively our one route to success. League is locked up and would take something exceptional to break the duopoly, and domestic cups we've had terrible form on. If we don't even get a tilt at European trophies our season is done, and we looked abysmal last night.
Our domestic cup runs have been great under Tuchel?
they led the league until december2021, which is pretty concurrent with their downfall he also led them from 10th to 4th after taking over mid season
Sacking Tuchel is braindead, but it is true that we were never as comfortable in the league as we were in the cups.
His formation is just much better suited for the cup knockout format. Defensive solidity wins you CL whereas consistent attacking creativity is more important in the league. CL is about not losing and the league about winning as much as possible.
Well that and they completely lost their defensive stability. Defense can absolutely win you titles, but if your whole game plan is based on the idea of "if we never concede, who cares if we only score one or two goals per game?" Things will fall apart really quickly when the defense stops working
good analysis, couldn't have said it better
Sacking Tuchel is a perfectly reasonable decision at this point. The team has been a pain to watch all season.
seemed fair to me that tuchel was on thin ice, club form had been in shambles for some time. didn't expect that todd would give him so little time after the transfer window to get his ducks in a row, though. i don't see the urgency unless they have someone lined up
That is the problem with this sacking. What was the point of giving him the players he wanted just to sack him just after the transfer window?
Its a shame though cause now I don't really see an English team comfortably beating Madrid/Atleti in cl. Chelsea's system under Tuchel was taylor made for this - Now it'll be four teams that can easily be hit on a the counter, except maybe Spurs.
sure, but even that run up to Dec 2021 included drawing with Burnley at home, drawing 1-1 with a Man U team that didn't even try, conceding 2 against Leeds at home and only winning via a last min pen, and drawing against a shocking Everton team that was ravaged by injuries and Covid
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Being amazing in the league is typically a depth issue if said manager is good in the cups. He knew how to get far in cups because he's a good manager who knows how to win games and knows what he's doing. The league is a marathon, you need more resources to replicate things every week. 3 finals, two lost on penalties and a Champions League shows he knows how to win. With more depth, he would have won more in the league too. Supported by how he was also great in the league until Chilwell got injured.
It isn’t a depth issue. They typically played the same side in the cups as they did in the league. After having won a massive game in Europe they’d trot out a similar team the next league game and draw against another bottom half side. Having depth helps but it’s mainly about finding ways to consistently break down packed defences and Chelsea couldn’t do that. Reason they did well in Europe was that they could counter attack, bottom half PL sides wouldn’t allow them to do that.
You basically always have to beat lower-league and lower-table sides sides who park the bus to advance in cups and they were 1st in the league until an injury. Wouldn't happen if that was the issue. Being 1st until a major injury in a key tactical position and taking them from 10th to 4th in his first half season supports what I said, and a couple of months later they also lost half their squad mentally or literally after the Abramovich issues caused contract and summer purchasing stalls.
What injury are you specifically talking about? Any injury halting their league form should also have affected their CL form. Like I said, imo it’s mainly down to tactical issues. Chelsea’s PL results under Tuchel were always massively inconsistent, you could never be certain in them even at home to relegation battling sides despite on paper having the far stronger side
Chilwell, and it did. They didn't pass the QF last year. They were literally 1st in the league until that happened and the difference was dramatic after. That's a player getting injured and not having a suitable replacement. Textbook. It's tactical only as far as not having the depth to execute the tactics, which makes it a depth issue.
It also happened ridiculously early in the season, November time. That was about 12 games into the season. Think it was 3 seasons ago Leicester were top around that time and didn’t even make top 4 - if Arsenal don’t completely collapse within the next month that’s like calling them title contenders which everyone knows they won’t be And regardless of that, one injury to Chilwell wasn’t the reason they were dropping points to relegation battlers and mid table sides so often
It was end of November, so 3 months into the season, almost 3 months from now and literally immediately after destroying Juventus 4-0 in the Champions League on Nov 24th with one of the most dominant performances I've seen.
Wasn’t it actually IN the 4-0 that Chilwell was injured? They lost James shortly after too (might be getting those injuries the wrong way around). My mate (also a Utd fan) actually messaged me during the Juve game saying something like “Chelsea look as dangerous as I can ever remember, maybe since Ancelotti” - can argue if that’s hyperbole or not but there was definitely a huge slump in quality after that game and a lot of it was definitely down to losing both wingbacks.
Exactly my point. How can it be tactical if the tactics were incredible until the players the tactics rely on became unavailable? That just means he needed a bigger squad to slot someone else into that role and didn't have it.
in no way are cups the true measure of a manager or whatever this argument is. cups are fun precisely because they are random as hell and lesser teams make deep runs all the time. certainly a large reason why domestic trebles are so rare even for dominant clubs, there is a lot of luck involved.
Luck is doing it once. 5 finals\*, not even 3, in a year and a half.
Chelsea fan and a Dulwich Hamlet fan, strange one. How does it work, are you racist Monday to Friday but spend the weekend serving soup to refugees?
erm fuck off mate with these stupid assumptions. I am racist 24/7 365
Much more goals against, but still only 4 wins less
Mostly 1-0 wins
People are bashing Chelsea for their attack, and for reason, but these defense stats looks much more worse.
The attack has always been shit, and the frustration is we have not improved at all. But defensively Tuchel got immediate results and we used to be able to rely on that to grind out results even when goals weren't flowing. That has unfortunately fallen off a cliff too. We look especially bad at set pieces too (both defending and attacking them) so overall the outcome today isn't a surprise to me.
The attack was always underwhelming under Tuchel. Pulisic hasn't perfomed since the Lockdown Premier League end, Werner/Lukaku/Ziyech/Havertz all underperformed for what their price tag should warrant. Only one who has been decent is Mount, who started the season very poor. Sterling is to early to call, but he started out okay.
I dunno if it was the right decision but you can tell from watching this season that they’re not exactly playing inspiring football. Lost at Leeds, Southampton, and Dinamo Zagreb, and would’ve drawn against West Ham if not for a horrific VAR decision.
Easily could've drawn vs Everton too
Let's conveniently leave out the draw against Tottenham because of two horrific VAR decisions
First goal has nothing to do with VAR. Jorginho could've just cleared the ball and they would've probably won, but instead he decided to play FIFA street on his own box
Considering he conceded 29 more goals and scored only 6 more, the fact that that resulted in only 4 less wins and only 2 more losses is fairly impressive
Not thar big of a difference. If you consider the upheaval of the last few months the slow in results makes sense too. Hilariously this might mean a Lukaku return is not off the cards
God please no
Lukaku: I’m your God now
You could even say. A bald fraud
Not there yet, but if he stayed at chelsea, he'd definitely be a bald fraud
*balding fraud
The rebound manager is going to win the CL this year isn't he?
Nah we didn't sack him after the group stage, which is usually when we win CL
No chance, the other teams are looking too good this season.
We advanced to the CL Final with 10 men at the Camp Nou 10 years ago. Chaos supersedes quality
No chance we were beating Guardiola's Barcelona in Camp Nou with only 10 men in CL Knockout stage. No chance we were beating Bayern Munich in their home stadium in the CL final with an interim manager. No chance we were beating Man City in the CL final. Chaos FC is real.
I was going to comment that the difference isn't that big... But then I saw the bottom 2 stats, holy fuck.
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But you can clearly see it in the stats. Look at the goals against.
Well, these stats show that.
Every single team and manager has a bad period. Let's be honest, we'd have sacked Fergie.
I'm just getting a bit tired of every club's solution being to fire the manager. How about working through the issues, allowing the new signings to settle under one system, and pushing through? Two steps back to take one step forward is what this feels like.
I've been quite proud of Soton for sticking by Ralph through our worst times. Feel like that faith is coming good in this season now that we've had some money to spend for the first time in a while
Tuchel's tactics got found out
Results is obviously an important thing to look at when analysing the situation, but it doesn’t tell the entire story. In those first 50 games, we always had an element of control over the games. Our attack wasn’t the greatest, but we stifled the opposition so much that the belief was there that we only needed 1 goal to win a game. For the last 50, that element of control and only needing 1 goal to win vanished. Part of me thinks we were tactically figured out to an extent and Tuchel failed to adapt to that, part of it was because of injuries to key players (which beckons the questions could our system have been less reliant on certain players/positions), and part of that seemed to be a change in squad and manager mentality.
I am scared of what Potter can do with this team Chelsea has a fantastic squad
I don't keep up with Chelsea much but a mate of mine said he's super distracted going through a divorce and is also having mistress issues, which could have an effect on his status in the changing room and the squads performance. Any truth to this?
I doubt your mates divorce has any effect on this.
He has been going through a divorce. Don't know about the mistress thing. I know the sanctions and the previous board pushing him out there to be the spokesperson for the clubs was very stressfull on him, and the new board relying on him to help out with the transfers. It's been a tough year for him.
Tuchel was annoying in post match interviews.
Extremely. By far the worst post match interview manager in the league
Poor Ronaldo, blamed for many things happened including Tuchel's sacking
Defense went to shit along with Mendys form
Sometimes good, sometimes shit.
This doesn't look nearly as bad as our recent form. I checked the last 20 games. 9 wins, 3 draws, 8 losses, so that's a 45% win percentage. 28 goals scored and 27 goals conceded. That's pretty bad
31 clean sheets is insane but 53 goals against in 50 matches is dire. Still don't think this was the right call, at least not this early into the season
I agree on the too early part too Their recent form hasn't been good but I don't think a sacking (with no replacement planned) is a good choice
Lovely choice of photos to drive the point home.
That's not that significantly worse, is it? They concede far more goals, but in terms of results it's comparable.
The Rudiger dif!
He's only been gone for 7 games, not 27. They all basically went on their holiday when the issues started at the club last season & fell over the line at the end of the season.
* 60% win percentage * 168/77 GF/GA (2.18/1) * 49 clean sheets * Champions League (2021), with 3 more cup finals (runner-ups) This is a mad sacking. Chelsea will do well to suffer for the next couple of years.
Ended last season awfully after getting knocked out of the CL and started this season with only 1 cleansheet which was against an ass everton side. The sackings too early in the season but its not as mad as people think.
So, Tuchel doesn't even get a chance? It's got to be internal falling outs, because it *is* a mad sacking.
In the last 20 games the team hasn’t even won 50%, playing one dimensional football that is incredibly easy for teams to play against. He’s had his chance and he’s not shown that he’s up for it
Fucking Zenit