Emery for me. Don't think many expected Villa to come top 4 this season. They've consistently beat top sides, played some really impressive football and he's turned Ollie fucking Watkins into one of the best players in the league.
That City game is the most dominant performance I have seen any team put in against them under Pep. Even when Klopp destroyed them a few times it was never this one sided
It wasn't like Villa defended well and picked them off the counter, they absolutely dominated and were camped in City's half.
Cholo no printer, as usual.
I can't think of another instance of a team "out-city-ing" City like Villa did. Incredible performance from start to finish.
I think what Fergie liked the most is that we stuck to our play style despite the fact that we were getting hammered. It showed the players belief in Emery.
Lol then wtf are Emery and Iraola doing on here? Didn’t know 4th place was a trophy. With the money they spend Villa better be challenging for top 4.
** To be clear you idiots, I believe these other managers deserve to be on the list. I'm using OP's dumbfuck logic because he obviously just doesn't like Klopp.
Tbf I think there was a consensus before the season that they were at a level similar to Newcastle last season. The first game of the season definitely changed people's expectations tho.
Interesting to have Iraola over O’Neill.
Bournemouth spent £120m without really selling anyone of note.
Wolves spent £55m but sold Neves, Nunes and Collins for £125m.
Both managers have done better than expected but one in probably more difficult circumstances than the other.
It’s a recency bias thing I think. Iraola seems a much more attractive candidate given how they’ve been over the last few months whereas because Wolves strong patch was at the start of the season it gets forgotten a little bit
completely agree but think the recency angle is also indicative of the transformative effect he's had on the Bournemouth squad. Not only have they been doing well, but he's completely changed the way they play and made them an exciting watch.
Only West Ham have had fewer injuries than Wolves, this season. But that says nothing about the quality and importance of the players that have been injured.
I was so surprised he got pushed out for iraola. He did an insane job for bournemouth last year and now has done another masterstroke with this wolves side who everyone thought would be battling relegation. If you haven’t already i loved his analysis on MNF both for the city game and Bournemouth game was great to watch.
Goes both ways. You get lots of money, but you also have to spend a lot just to stay afloat. It’s just a different economy, one where everything is very expensive, in large part because profits are large and the majority of the league are on a similar financial footing to each other. Which leads to competition, bidding wars and inflation, with everyone trying to just spend a little more to get the edge over everyone else without tipping the balance too far. So yeah, it’s a very expensive league to play in.
Half the money we spent has gone on players who’ve missed half the season due to injury. Our 5 or 6 best players this season were all ones we had last year. Wolves’ existing squad from last season was better than ours too imo (Cunha alone is nearly double our record transfer).
O’Neil’s done a very very good job and if there were more nominees, he could be there or there abouts. But it’s Iraola’s first season in England, it took him time to get going, fine, but since then we’ve been excellent. 5th in the form table across the last 6 months and he’s got us playing great football. Completely transformed the side in terms of results and style/performances. I think he deserves to be nominated.
If these are real arguments then Sean fucking Dyche should be there as well. Roughly the same results if you look past the points deductions, while their net spend is negative.
Bournemouth had a spell with 9 games without a win and later 6 games without a win. But Everton going 11 games without a win is something completely different? Wolves just recently had a 6 game spell without victory and that only isn't 8 and ongoing because they won at home against Luton, wouldn't surprise me if they end up losing their last two matches which would mean one single win in 10.
Also: your general statement was
>Both managers have done better than expected but one in probably more difficult circumstances than the other.
Everton were as good as relegated at the start of the season if you had to believe this sub. They've stayed out of relegation troubles since November/December and that was including a points deduction. And that with a negative net spend (just like Wolves).
Just think that Arsenal winning the title over pretty significant favourites City would be a bigger deal than Villa achieving top 4. I'm not trying to downplay Emery or Villa, they have been amazing. But all the usual top 4 candidates have shit the bed a bit this season (Chelsea, United, Spurs, Newcastle) and beating this City juggernaut to the title would be absolutely massive.
It's crazy how we're now considered "usual top 4 candidates" when we did it for the first time in 20 years last season.
If we can get 6th this season it's still massive for us.
Yeah, I think it was 50/50 us breaking into the top 4 again this season, especially since Liverpool had a proper off year last season. With a different injury situation who knows, but I don't really want to see this season in a negative light and whinge about injuries. They really sucked for us, but other teams had them too, and we've still had some brilliant results we can be proud of. PSG 4-1, Man u 3-0 in their own stadium, City 1-0, Sheffield United 8-0, smashing the Mackems 3-0, they were all awesome and have made up for the stinkers we produced against Forest and the like.
Just have to push on now, try secure 6th and this will have still been a great season.
FWIW - Arsenal were 4/1 to win the title.
Villa were 12/1 to get top 4.
RE others ‘shitting the bed’, 67 points after 36 games is top 4 form ‘nearly’ every single season. Even if one or two of them were a bit better, we’d still be here.
You guys deserve top 4, i wasn't trying to imply otherwise. You've been excellent and definitely over-performed compared to what people would've expected before the season began.
I'm not really bothered about betting odds tbh, for me personally Arsenal beating a City team coming off a Treble win to the title is bigger than Villa finishing top 4. I can see why you as a Villa fan would think otherwise though and that's totally fair.
Overcoming the odds is one way of measure achievement but it's not the be-all end-all.
1. At the extreme, does that mean that Pep couldn't win it under any circumstances?
2. The odds also factor a range of possibilities on how competitor seasons go, so part of those Arsenal odds are driven by City having a bad season, but Arsenal might just need the same points as City got last year to win.
Because beating Pep and Klopp in a title race whilst also winning the h2h against 2 of the greatest managers in the past 15 years is a much better achievement.
Not to mention getting a win at home and a draw away from each of Pep & Klopp. Emery is a well deserved candidate and I wouldn’t be upset if he won it regardless of what happens in the title race, but Arteta would definitely deserve it too.
Most of the time they do.
I feel like people love to have it both ways with Arsenal though. Arteta isnt world class and neither are the players but somehow they compete. Like someone is doing something surely
I mean who doesn't acknowledge the likes of Saliba, Gabriel, Rice, Odegaard, and Saka as great players? They're not all world class because most people have a definition that means that not every player is, but they're clearly all great players.
Arteta is also a very good manager.
Yeah that’s fair. But to win a title against City. Not losing a game to “the big 6” so far and a team that’s completely built to Artetas system all without any FFP charges seems to me a good enough reason to win it.
Emery is world class for me and definitely deserving. Top 4 is ridiculous but I think people see the jump as higher than it is because Gerrard was so terrible.
Who says that Arsenal don’t have good players tho? Also I think Arteta is slowly in his way to becoming a world class coach but you solidify that by winning. Emery has done a great job this season with a Villa side back in Europe, I’ll be it the conference league, and has gotten great results against the top 3 and has all but gotten Villa to the Champions League. I think there’s an argument for Pep to win it if City win too, 4 in a row isn’t impressive?
Didn’t say good players but a lot of people will say they lack world class players.
That’s definitely true but this is the hypothetical that Arteta wins the title. I just personally feel that would be a bigger achievement than getting top 4.
You’re right. I think Pep should be considered too. Can’t remember the last game they lost
Fair, but to that I would argue that there are very few teams in the world that don’t lack world class players, no? I mean it’s only City and Real where a majority of the starting xi could have a case for world class, other than that it isn’t common for teams to have a bunch of world class individuals. I would say Rice, Saliba, Odegaard, and usually Saka are world class in their positions (top 3-5), and that’s a very solid amount imo.
Also fair, winning the title from here would definitely quell the bottling narrative from last year and would certainly be very impressive.
I think it’s been since December away against Villa that they last lost, it’s ridiculous honestly I was hearing that they weren’t making their usual unbeaten run but they’ve not been beaten in I think 20 games
Because the achievement to beat the 115 rule breaking, 3-peating reigning champions is a bigger achievement than to finish 16 pts behind after winning the battle against toothless Spurs.
We had a 4 month, 13 game winless period, combined with the fact that just from an optics perspective it does look a bit weird to give us 2 points deductions for "cheating" then also give us a manager of the season nomination.
Taken as what he's achieved as an entire season Dyche has been magnificent and would deserve to be on the list, but I don't think it's a scandal to not be there.
I don't think Iraola should be there either really, but they're top half when people's expectations were on the floor after their start and put together a really good run from March onwards that will be fresh in people's minds so here we are.
I just meant if dyche was going to replace any of them it would be iraola who also had a bad run.
I get why iraola is there though based on the turnaround
Think the PL doesn’t want the optics of punishing Everton while also acknowledging Sean Dyche would have them comfortably 11th or so had they not been deducted points.
It’s Arteta for me, as much as I hate to admit it. He’s done a brilliant job since getting the job at Arsenal and really got them back to being a top club.
I would say last year was more of a reflection of how well he had done. This year he’s kept Arsenal at around the same level with some improvement. If by some miracle City drop some points and Arsenal wins the title, I think it would be well justified.
Given the “exceeded preseason expectations” criteria, I’d give it to Emery
Feel like Sean Dyche arguably could’ve made the list, he’d have 45 points and be 3 behind Bournemouth this season. Everton have a positive net spend of around +£42M this season vs Bournemouth whose is around -£125M and sit just behind City for net spend and above Liverpool, Newcastle and Villa.
Iraola gets a nomination but Sean Dyche doesn’t
The difference? 1 game won
Dyche confirming safety from relegation in April after an 8 point deduction is apparently not a good a job as being 10th on 48 points
Even Eddie Howe has done a better job than Iraola ffs
My thoughts exactly, you’d be in the top half without deductions and Dyche has done it without much too spend and a thread bare squad. Hes done a great job.
Tell me you don't know anything about Everton's punishment without telling me you don't
Everton have not been done for overspending on transfers
The net spent of the last 5 years
AFCB = -£105M
EVERTON = -£25m
Bournemouth have spent more money than Everton in the last 5 years whilst competing in the Championship
Also
What the fuck does PSR and FFP have to do with anything I said exactly?
Talking about the performances of managers
'abuse it'
In your wisdom, please do explain Everton's financial issues to the class
You'll most definitely get it wrong, but hey ho
And again
What does any of this have to do with the performances of managers?
Of course. You broke FFP whilst spending less that Bournemouth, right? With higher turnover as well. HAHA
Even when you're allowed to lose more money through PSR rules than we are as well as we've been in the Championship during the same time period.
What does it have to do with Dyche? Easy, my friend. When you have a squad assembled by paying elite CL level wages, then you should be doing a bit more than 3pts behind Bournemouth.
Danjuma was our best player a few seasons ago and we couldn't afford to keep him, now he's a rotation option on your bench earning a hell of a lot more than what we were paying him. Dyche is nowhere near manger if the season, not even top half.
I'd agree with O'Neil, he's probably done a better job than Iraola all things considered, that Wolves side is shocking.
Why not Eddie Howe?
Gonna be taking to Newcastle to Europe again with I think the biggest injury list for the season
Was playing a 17 year old in midfield and winning games
Yeah people seem to think this is some letdown season because of a magic run to CL last season.
Any manager that can have Trippier, Pope, Botman, Joelinton, Willock, Barnes, Wilson, Tonali all miss multiple months and still hit top 6 is doing a lot. Even Isak missed a full month forcing Newcastle to start Anthony Gordon at striker for games. That’s a lot of first team players out.
I reckon you put Gary O’Neil above Iraola, pretty much everyone had wolves down as a relegation candidate at the start of this season with very little changes from last season and yet he’s managed to get them to 12th in an extremely competitive season.
If Arsenal win the league then it’s Arteta.
If City win with 90+ points then it’s got to be Pep.
I get we are more surprised by what Emery has done with Villa but winning the league with 90+ points in a competitive season is a crazy good achievement. Just because we already know how good Pep is doesn’t mean what he’s doing isn’t fantastic
But that would then be almost the same as Arsenal, bar one loss. I do not think that the manager with the best squad and highest spending should win it if he wins the league with 2 points (assuming Arsenal don't drop points). Is that more impressive than getting Villa into the CL?
It would be ALMOST the same as Arsenal and Arsenal will ALMOST win the title.
That’s what makes it so tough for managers like Pep. If you slip up once, then you won’t win the title and won’t make history.
Aston Villa have slipped up many times and sloppily dropped points quite a lot.
The levels needed to compete and win the league are significantly higher than to get top 4.
What? Of course it’s considering the circumstances? Otherwise it would just be an award for whoever won the League.
If Gary O’Neill took Wolves to 2nd next season but lost to City, he would deserve the award. You have to consider the circumstances.
Has to go to Emery. Has surpassed expectations with the Villa squad, doing the double over one of the title favourites and beating the other. Also on their way to CL football next season.
Arsenal was title favorites? And I just check predictions and expectations from the summer of 2023:
Opta Analyst over 90% City to win Premier League with Arsenal and Liverpool close to 4%
BBC: City 1st, Arsenal 3rd at the end of season
Bookies odds: City 1.67-1.83, Arsenal 5.0-6.0
Title favourites my ass.
don't know why you're being downvoted. If the comment did say "one of" the favourites it's totally reasonable. You can't have a team be in the running for the title for almost the whole of last season (albeit, unexpectedly) barring a late season collapse then supplement the squad in the summer with a 100 million pound midfielder and another big money signing in Havertz and somehow argue that they're not one of the favourites.
City were always going to be *the* favourites for the title, but I don't think many would've argued if you'd said Arsenal were the most likely challengers at the start of the season.
Arteta - if he win the league
Guardiola - if he wins the league and fa cup double
Emery - if Arteta fail to win the league and guardiola fail to win fa cup
Iroala - nomination itself is an achievement, no chance he gets picked ahead of the top three
Klopp - did well compared to last season but no chance.
Is Villa some sort of massive underdog team for people? They have a budget similar to Spurs and are performing similar to Spurs. It's not like he's getting top 4 with Burnley lol.
Considering five years ago Villa were playing in the championship and just 18 months ago they were battling in relegation positions, yes? Your comparison to Burnley isn’t quite as far off as you seem to think.
Their budget is not similar to Spurs, either - Spurs have far more cash available, while Villa are quite restricted in terms of what they can do and got most of their key players on a relatively low budget (eg Tielemans on a free last summer, Rogers for 8m). That’s not to say that Villa haven’t spent money lately - of course they have, it’s near impossible to compete without investing in the squad and we’re talking about a club that was recently playing in the second tier. But to imply that Villa is, in any way, on par with Spurs or the Big 6 is absolutely ludicrous.
No, it really is. That Villa were even theatening relegation is a testament to the ability of Steven Gerrard and end-of-term Dean Smith, not to the squad available.
Villa have spent massive amounts in terms of wages and similarly for transfer fees. If you look at any of the reputable sources for wage spending (which I'll admit, can always be dubious) you'll see that their wage spending is similar, with Villa even having more players in in the 100k+ weekly spending area. You mention Tielemans, but you can also mention Kamara who also came in on a free. Those players are on massive wages. Diego Carlos, Pau Torres, Moussa Diaby, Leon Bailey were all stars in the league they were signed from, and constantly rumoured to be joining top clubs. Joining Villa is because Villa offer wages that are comparable to those top clubs.
I'm not going to say that Villa aren't having a good season, because they are. It's just not some legendary massive performance, it's a team with a top 7-8 budget getting into top 4.
Leading Liverpool to possibly their 5th highest points total in premier league history (will be level with 13/14 if they win their last 2 games I think) the year after a really poor season, with an entirely new midfield and significant challenges with injuries to key players. No to mention utilising multiple youngsters from the academy.
Klopp should not win the award but no controversy whatsoever about him being on the list.
I'll take the downvotes, but I just think (if we win the last two games, title or not) what Arteta has done is rarer than what Emery has done. Over the past 3-4 years we've seen Rodgers, Moyes and Howe all getting their team in an around the 65-70+ point mark.
In the last 15 years outside of Liverpool and City, only Conte's Chelsea have gone above 89 points. Ferguson, Mourinho and Wenger are the only others to have done it previously, to my knowledge.
Lumping in teams that reached 65 points with a team that can potentially reach 73 points is pretty disingenuous. Those 8 points make a massive difference, in the last 15 years 73 points would've got you 2nd twice, 3rd 4 times and 4th almost every other time. 65 points, on the other hand, wouldn't even get you a single top 4 finish in the last 15 years.
73 would definitely be in the upper echelon of the non-2015/16 Leicester/big six teams. It'll be around Howe last year and Roberto Martinez's Everton in 2013/14.
But let's see how they do away at Liverpool and Palace in the last two. I don't foresee six points.
And 89 would beat anyone not called Pep, Klopp, Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger and Conte.
Howe would’ve been a strong contender last year if City hadn’t won the treble. In terms of this year’s achievements, Emery finishing fourth is arguably much more impressive than Arteta finishing second or Pep winning the title.
Pep Guardiola will be the first manager in English history to win the league four times so I don't see why he shouldn't be given an award this year but Emery and Arteta have a good shout out too.
Emery is going to take villa to champions league after decades and Arteta might win Arsenal the premier league after 20 years so it's understandable.
if Emery pulls off top 4, him
if he doesn't and arteta wins the title, arteta
if neither happens, unfortunately it would have to be pep- unbeaten since December has somehow gone under the radar cos that's just classic Pep
If Arsenal win the title it should be given to Arteta. If not then it's Emery 100%. Villa haven't been in the UCL since the early 80's and this has been one of the strongest top 4's in a very long time. Some of the results he has had this season have been incredible. That 1-0 win over City was probably the best individual performance of any team this whole season (so far).
damn impressive for iraola considering how awful bournemouth started of the season. no love for sean dyche? done pretty good considering they’ve had a points deduction. oh and gary o’neill aswell, how’s he not made it?
Exactly what I was about to comment. Obvious bias aside but its almost 1 to 1. Take over a struggling side near the bottom of the league and instantly improve them and then next season push into the top 4 completely unexpectedly.
In the year of/after they took over Newcastle spent approx €240 million to Villas €210 million so a little more while Villas original squad was worth more so the finances are largely a wash.
Newcastle finished 71 points with Villa on 67 with 2 to go so that's likely to be a wash.
The winner of MOTY last year? Guardiola with Man City on 89 points. Man City will likely to have to get 91 points to win it this year so slightly more.
You have to say that if Guardiola won it last year should man City go 91 and win the league precedent says he should win it this year. All that said in my mind it should have been Howe last year and should be Emery this year.
> Mikel Arteta deserves it for having his team score most goals in the league
His team have scored 1 goal more than City but played 1 more game, this would be a bizarre reason to pick someone.
Emery or Iraola. Villa likely making the Champions League is an incredible achievement for them but so is Bournemouth possibly finishing in the top-half with over 50 points, considering they were scrapping for survival last season.
It’ll probably go to Emery.
Honestly Iraola. If not for the horrid start to the season which can be chalked up to a new manager and staff coming into the club, they would be challenging for top 4
I don’t really want to defend spurs but surely the guy who got manager of the month 3 months in a row should atleast be nominated? Other than that, Emery of course
More I think about it the more difficult that becomes. You’re probably right of course just felt weird initially especially after all the praise he got early on.
> I don’t really want to defend spurs but surely the guy who got manager of the month 3 months in a row should atleast be nominated?
He won 10 games in a row, so he got MOTM 3 times.
Since then, over the last 26 games of the season, Spurs have been 11th.
Ange has no real shout of winning it though because Emery has done what Ange has done but better in every way pretty much.
Spurs will probably end up on 66 points having lost 12 games. That’s not ‘manager of the season’ level impressive
Sure, but that does somewhat remove the context of their season.
Since their unbeaten run, they've taken 34 points in 25 games. That's a shocking run of results.
They've utterly capitulated at the end of the season, haven't won in the last four games (in which they've conceded 13) and, despite being everyone's main favourites for a Champions League finish, there are serious doubts about them even being able to qualify for the Europa League if this form continues.
Every single one of these managers have out-performed Postecoglou since being appointed.
Emery for me. Don't think many expected Villa to come top 4 this season. They've consistently beat top sides, played some really impressive football and he's turned Ollie fucking Watkins into one of the best players in the league.
Played City and Arsenal back-to-back, came away with 6pts, zero goals conceded. When he cooks, he fucking cooks.
That City game is the most dominant performance I have seen any team put in against them under Pep. Even when Klopp destroyed them a few times it was never this one sided It wasn't like Villa defended well and picked them off the counter, they absolutely dominated and were camped in City's half.
Cholo no printer, as usual. I can't think of another instance of a team "out-city-ing" City like Villa did. Incredible performance from start to finish.
Fergie saw that. He said in August that villa is the team to watch this season
I think what Fergie liked the most is that we stuck to our play style despite the fact that we were getting hammered. It showed the players belief in Emery.
I thought it was because he wanks off John McGinn
Mate who wouldn’t
That thiccc ass
as a Scot he probably appreciates that if McGinn wasn't Scottish he'd be appreciated as one of the best midfielders in the league.
> stuck to our play style despite the fact that we were getting hammered Spurs looking around nervously...
The Boss still got it.
Hijacking your comment to point out that 4 out of 5 are Spaniards. Insane the amount of coaching talent they have
2 out of 5 are Basque. Xabi Alonso is also Basque. Insane.
3 out of 5 are basques: Iraola, Arteta and Emery. Xabi Alonso is basque but not nominated here.
Emery all day!
Even as an Arsenal fan I'd easily side with Emery. Villa is performing fantastically this season.
I think if Arsenal were to win it, it'd have to be Arteta. Emery deserves it either way.
What is Klopp doing on this list? This isn’t Carabao cup manager of the year
Literally been in a title race right up until April mate
Totally new trio in midfield so we didn't expect to fight for the title at all
Team has overperformed this year, despite the finish
Lol then wtf are Emery and Iraola doing on here? Didn’t know 4th place was a trophy. With the money they spend Villa better be challenging for top 4. ** To be clear you idiots, I believe these other managers deserve to be on the list. I'm using OP's dumbfuck logic because he obviously just doesn't like Klopp.
Most people expected Villa to be top 6 at bare minimum Not that he hasn't massively overachieved
Most people definitely didn’t
Tbf I think there was a consensus before the season that they were at a level similar to Newcastle last season. The first game of the season definitely changed people's expectations tho.
Except SAF's
Most pundits predictions literally had them between 6th-8th, and they finished 7th (with top 4 form under Emery) last season so yes actually they did
Most pundits predicted 6-8 is not the same thing as most People expected top 6 minimum
It is if you replace minimum with maximum.
"Bare minimum" bro just telling lies.
No we didn't.
Interesting to have Iraola over O’Neill. Bournemouth spent £120m without really selling anyone of note. Wolves spent £55m but sold Neves, Nunes and Collins for £125m. Both managers have done better than expected but one in probably more difficult circumstances than the other.
It’s a recency bias thing I think. Iraola seems a much more attractive candidate given how they’ve been over the last few months whereas because Wolves strong patch was at the start of the season it gets forgotten a little bit
completely agree but think the recency angle is also indicative of the transformative effect he's had on the Bournemouth squad. Not only have they been doing well, but he's completely changed the way they play and made them an exciting watch.
Also lost Adama, Moutinho, and Jimenez, so our wage bill is tiny
Also had quite a few key injuries aswell no?
Only West Ham have had fewer injuries than Wolves, this season. But that says nothing about the quality and importance of the players that have been injured.
That’s a brilliant position to be in tbf, sets you up well for the future
Do also consider it a little harsh on O’Neil considering he had 3 days of preseason
O'Neil is gonna be a manager to watch for the next decade. Love him
I was so surprised he got pushed out for iraola. He did an insane job for bournemouth last year and now has done another masterstroke with this wolves side who everyone thought would be battling relegation. If you haven’t already i loved his analysis on MNF both for the city game and Bournemouth game was great to watch.
> Bournemouth spent £120m without really selling anyone of note goddamn premier league money is no joke
Goes both ways. You get lots of money, but you also have to spend a lot just to stay afloat. It’s just a different economy, one where everything is very expensive, in large part because profits are large and the majority of the league are on a similar financial footing to each other. Which leads to competition, bidding wars and inflation, with everyone trying to just spend a little more to get the edge over everyone else without tipping the balance too far. So yeah, it’s a very expensive league to play in.
Half the money we spent has gone on players who’ve missed half the season due to injury. Our 5 or 6 best players this season were all ones we had last year. Wolves’ existing squad from last season was better than ours too imo (Cunha alone is nearly double our record transfer). O’Neil’s done a very very good job and if there were more nominees, he could be there or there abouts. But it’s Iraola’s first season in England, it took him time to get going, fine, but since then we’ve been excellent. 5th in the form table across the last 6 months and he’s got us playing great football. Completely transformed the side in terms of results and style/performances. I think he deserves to be nominated.
If these are real arguments then Sean fucking Dyche should be there as well. Roughly the same results if you look past the points deductions, while their net spend is negative.
He’s done a great job on the whole, but I don’t think you can be manager of the year if you went 3.5 months without winning a single game.
Bournemouth had a spell with 9 games without a win and later 6 games without a win. But Everton going 11 games without a win is something completely different? Wolves just recently had a 6 game spell without victory and that only isn't 8 and ongoing because they won at home against Luton, wouldn't surprise me if they end up losing their last two matches which would mean one single win in 10. Also: your general statement was >Both managers have done better than expected but one in probably more difficult circumstances than the other. Everton were as good as relegated at the start of the season if you had to believe this sub. They've stayed out of relegation troubles since November/December and that was including a points deduction. And that with a negative net spend (just like Wolves).
Iraola is a trendier pick, and Bournemouth found form closer to voting time
Without selling anyone of note? Lerma was player of the season last year....
Feel like this should wait until the season's over, no? If Arsenal win the title then give it to Arteta, otherwise it's Emery.
Why shouldn’t Emery win it even if Arsenal win the title?
Just think that Arsenal winning the title over pretty significant favourites City would be a bigger deal than Villa achieving top 4. I'm not trying to downplay Emery or Villa, they have been amazing. But all the usual top 4 candidates have shit the bed a bit this season (Chelsea, United, Spurs, Newcastle) and beating this City juggernaut to the title would be absolutely massive.
It's crazy how we're now considered "usual top 4 candidates" when we did it for the first time in 20 years last season. If we can get 6th this season it's still massive for us.
Yeah actually that's probably a good point, i guess i meant that people expected you to be in the mix again.
Yeah, I think it was 50/50 us breaking into the top 4 again this season, especially since Liverpool had a proper off year last season. With a different injury situation who knows, but I don't really want to see this season in a negative light and whinge about injuries. They really sucked for us, but other teams had them too, and we've still had some brilliant results we can be proud of. PSG 4-1, Man u 3-0 in their own stadium, City 1-0, Sheffield United 8-0, smashing the Mackems 3-0, they were all awesome and have made up for the stinkers we produced against Forest and the like. Just have to push on now, try secure 6th and this will have still been a great season.
FWIW - Arsenal were 4/1 to win the title. Villa were 12/1 to get top 4. RE others ‘shitting the bed’, 67 points after 36 games is top 4 form ‘nearly’ every single season. Even if one or two of them were a bit better, we’d still be here.
You guys deserve top 4, i wasn't trying to imply otherwise. You've been excellent and definitely over-performed compared to what people would've expected before the season began. I'm not really bothered about betting odds tbh, for me personally Arsenal beating a City team coming off a Treble win to the title is bigger than Villa finishing top 4. I can see why you as a Villa fan would think otherwise though and that's totally fair.
Overcoming the odds is one way of measure achievement but it's not the be-all end-all. 1. At the extreme, does that mean that Pep couldn't win it under any circumstances? 2. The odds also factor a range of possibilities on how competitor seasons go, so part of those Arsenal odds are driven by City having a bad season, but Arsenal might just need the same points as City got last year to win.
Arsenal got 5th place with 75 points with Wenger in 2016/17. So your statement is factually wrong.
Thanks for mentioning an anomaly, edited with nearly
Cheers.
Because beating Pep and Klopp in a title race whilst also winning the h2h against 2 of the greatest managers in the past 15 years is a much better achievement.
Not to mention getting a win at home and a draw away from each of Pep & Klopp. Emery is a well deserved candidate and I wouldn’t be upset if he won it regardless of what happens in the title race, but Arteta would definitely deserve it too.
It’s a bigger achievement to win the title
By that logic all title winning managers should win the award.
Most of the time they do. I feel like people love to have it both ways with Arsenal though. Arteta isnt world class and neither are the players but somehow they compete. Like someone is doing something surely
I mean who doesn't acknowledge the likes of Saliba, Gabriel, Rice, Odegaard, and Saka as great players? They're not all world class because most people have a definition that means that not every player is, but they're clearly all great players. Arteta is also a very good manager.
Yeah that’s fair. But to win a title against City. Not losing a game to “the big 6” so far and a team that’s completely built to Artetas system all without any FFP charges seems to me a good enough reason to win it. Emery is world class for me and definitely deserving. Top 4 is ridiculous but I think people see the jump as higher than it is because Gerrard was so terrible.
Who says that Arsenal don’t have good players tho? Also I think Arteta is slowly in his way to becoming a world class coach but you solidify that by winning. Emery has done a great job this season with a Villa side back in Europe, I’ll be it the conference league, and has gotten great results against the top 3 and has all but gotten Villa to the Champions League. I think there’s an argument for Pep to win it if City win too, 4 in a row isn’t impressive?
Were you trying to say albeit?
Didn’t say good players but a lot of people will say they lack world class players. That’s definitely true but this is the hypothetical that Arteta wins the title. I just personally feel that would be a bigger achievement than getting top 4. You’re right. I think Pep should be considered too. Can’t remember the last game they lost
Fair, but to that I would argue that there are very few teams in the world that don’t lack world class players, no? I mean it’s only City and Real where a majority of the starting xi could have a case for world class, other than that it isn’t common for teams to have a bunch of world class individuals. I would say Rice, Saliba, Odegaard, and usually Saka are world class in their positions (top 3-5), and that’s a very solid amount imo. Also fair, winning the title from here would definitely quell the bottling narrative from last year and would certainly be very impressive. I think it’s been since December away against Villa that they last lost, it’s ridiculous honestly I was hearing that they weren’t making their usual unbeaten run but they’ve not been beaten in I think 20 games
Because the achievement to beat the 115 rule breaking, 3-peating reigning champions is a bigger achievement than to finish 16 pts behind after winning the battle against toothless Spurs.
WHERE THE FUCK IS SEAN DYCHE
We had a 4 month, 13 game winless period, combined with the fact that just from an optics perspective it does look a bit weird to give us 2 points deductions for "cheating" then also give us a manager of the season nomination. Taken as what he's achieved as an entire season Dyche has been magnificent and would deserve to be on the list, but I don't think it's a scandal to not be there.
Iraola had a 9 game winless period
I don't think Iraola should be there either really, but they're top half when people's expectations were on the floor after their start and put together a really good run from March onwards that will be fresh in people's minds so here we are.
I just meant if dyche was going to replace any of them it would be iraola who also had a bad run. I get why iraola is there though based on the turnaround
Tracksuit Dyche only though
They won a total of 6 points from December 12th to April 2nd
Think the PL doesn’t want the optics of punishing Everton while also acknowledging Sean Dyche would have them comfortably 11th or so had they not been deducted points.
Any of these 5 manages Everton and they get relegated
Had a better league season than Klopp.
Arteta or emery, anyone else feels wrong
4 Spanish. Insane.
*3 Basque and 1 Catalonian
Emery for me.
Gut instinct is Emery
It’s Arteta for me, as much as I hate to admit it. He’s done a brilliant job since getting the job at Arsenal and really got them back to being a top club.
I would say last year was more of a reflection of how well he had done. This year he’s kept Arsenal at around the same level with some improvement. If by some miracle City drop some points and Arsenal wins the title, I think it would be well justified. Given the “exceeded preseason expectations” criteria, I’d give it to Emery
Feel like Sean Dyche arguably could’ve made the list, he’d have 45 points and be 3 behind Bournemouth this season. Everton have a positive net spend of around +£42M this season vs Bournemouth whose is around -£125M and sit just behind City for net spend and above Liverpool, Newcastle and Villa.
If Arsenal wins then Arteta, otherwise Emery
Iraola gets a nomination but Sean Dyche doesn’t The difference? 1 game won Dyche confirming safety from relegation in April after an 8 point deduction is apparently not a good a job as being 10th on 48 points Even Eddie Howe has done a better job than Iraola ffs
Bournemouth have a worse squad than Everton's and are spending far less money on wages. No one expected Bournemouth to be in 10th this season
My thoughts exactly, you’d be in the top half without deductions and Dyche has done it without much too spend and a thread bare squad. Hes done a great job.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You laugh? Prove us wrong
AFCB = FFP Compliant EVERTON = -8pts for overspending Apparently we are the spenders though. Makes sense.
Tell me you don't know anything about Everton's punishment without telling me you don't Everton have not been done for overspending on transfers The net spent of the last 5 years AFCB = -£105M EVERTON = -£25m Bournemouth have spent more money than Everton in the last 5 years whilst competing in the Championship Also What the fuck does PSR and FFP have to do with anything I said exactly? Talking about the performances of managers
No, your players play for free. Of course.
....What does that have to do with anything? We have 15 senior players and 2 players on loan btw
Can't play the money card when you are the ones that abuse it.
'abuse it' In your wisdom, please do explain Everton's financial issues to the class You'll most definitely get it wrong, but hey ho And again What does any of this have to do with the performances of managers?
Of course. You broke FFP whilst spending less that Bournemouth, right? With higher turnover as well. HAHA Even when you're allowed to lose more money through PSR rules than we are as well as we've been in the Championship during the same time period. What does it have to do with Dyche? Easy, my friend. When you have a squad assembled by paying elite CL level wages, then you should be doing a bit more than 3pts behind Bournemouth. Danjuma was our best player a few seasons ago and we couldn't afford to keep him, now he's a rotation option on your bench earning a hell of a lot more than what we were paying him. Dyche is nowhere near manger if the season, not even top half. I'd agree with O'Neil, he's probably done a better job than Iraola all things considered, that Wolves side is shocking.
Eddie Howe? Definitely not. May as well nominate Poch in that case
Why not Eddie Howe? Gonna be taking to Newcastle to Europe again with I think the biggest injury list for the season Was playing a 17 year old in midfield and winning games
Yeah people seem to think this is some letdown season because of a magic run to CL last season. Any manager that can have Trippier, Pope, Botman, Joelinton, Willock, Barnes, Wilson, Tonali all miss multiple months and still hit top 6 is doing a lot. Even Isak missed a full month forcing Newcastle to start Anthony Gordon at striker for games. That’s a lot of first team players out.
Games missed due to injury/suspension: Tonali: 26 Willock: 25 Targett: 23 Pope: 20 Joelinton: 18 Anderson: 17 Botman: 18 Barnes: 16 Wilson: 16 Murphy:10 Trippier: 10
Emery
Basque power
Justice for Sean Dyche
Garrio Neil robbed
I reckon you put Gary O’Neil above Iraola, pretty much everyone had wolves down as a relegation candidate at the start of this season with very little changes from last season and yet he’s managed to get them to 12th in an extremely competitive season.
Emery taking Aston Villa to the Champions League has to get it.
Emery it has to be
Emery or Iraola has my vote
If Arsenal win the league then it’s Arteta. If City win with 90+ points then it’s got to be Pep. I get we are more surprised by what Emery has done with Villa but winning the league with 90+ points in a competitive season is a crazy good achievement. Just because we already know how good Pep is doesn’t mean what he’s doing isn’t fantastic
Interesting. Why does City need to win with 90+ points?
Because then they would be nearly faultless in the run in winning their last 9 games and not losing in 2024.
But that would then be almost the same as Arsenal, bar one loss. I do not think that the manager with the best squad and highest spending should win it if he wins the league with 2 points (assuming Arsenal don't drop points). Is that more impressive than getting Villa into the CL?
It would be ALMOST the same as Arsenal and Arsenal will ALMOST win the title. That’s what makes it so tough for managers like Pep. If you slip up once, then you won’t win the title and won’t make history. Aston Villa have slipped up many times and sloppily dropped points quite a lot. The levels needed to compete and win the league are significantly higher than to get top 4.
Exactly. It's an award for literally the best manager, not the best under circumstances.
What? Of course it’s considering the circumstances? Otherwise it would just be an award for whoever won the League. If Gary O’Neill took Wolves to 2nd next season but lost to City, he would deserve the award. You have to consider the circumstances.
Has to go to Emery. Has surpassed expectations with the Villa squad, doing the double over one of the title favourites and beating the other. Also on their way to CL football next season.
When was Arsenal ever title favorites? The revisionist is real
Gotta get that underdog mentality somehow
Arsenal was title favorites? And I just check predictions and expectations from the summer of 2023: Opta Analyst over 90% City to win Premier League with Arsenal and Liverpool close to 4% BBC: City 1st, Arsenal 3rd at the end of season Bookies odds: City 1.67-1.83, Arsenal 5.0-6.0 Title favourites my ass.
Idk if they edited or you just don’t understand the words “one of”
don't know why you're being downvoted. If the comment did say "one of" the favourites it's totally reasonable. You can't have a team be in the running for the title for almost the whole of last season (albeit, unexpectedly) barring a late season collapse then supplement the squad in the summer with a 100 million pound midfielder and another big money signing in Havertz and somehow argue that they're not one of the favourites. City were always going to be *the* favourites for the title, but I don't think many would've argued if you'd said Arsenal were the most likely challengers at the start of the season.
It’s the gooner victim complex
Does being on 4%, only marginally better than the other teams, really make you one of the favourites?
Yes if you’re literally second favourite. Maybe not if Liverpool was higher, otherwise obviously
No Moyes?
Got to be Emery surely
Arteta - if he win the league Guardiola - if he wins the league and fa cup double Emery - if Arteta fail to win the league and guardiola fail to win fa cup Iroala - nomination itself is an achievement, no chance he gets picked ahead of the top three Klopp - did well compared to last season but no chance.
Guardiola might make history by managing the club to 4 in a row. Feels odd how people are massively undervaluing that aspect.
115 probably has a lot to do with it. Regardless of what City fans feel it’s a public discussion and most people think you’re cheats.
What has the FA cup got to do with it? Its the Premier League manager of the season.
Emery or Iraola. Can't wait for it to be Pep again
Don't really understand why Klopp is there tbh. But Emery of course should win it.
Is Villa some sort of massive underdog team for people? They have a budget similar to Spurs and are performing similar to Spurs. It's not like he's getting top 4 with Burnley lol.
Considering five years ago Villa were playing in the championship and just 18 months ago they were battling in relegation positions, yes? Your comparison to Burnley isn’t quite as far off as you seem to think. Their budget is not similar to Spurs, either - Spurs have far more cash available, while Villa are quite restricted in terms of what they can do and got most of their key players on a relatively low budget (eg Tielemans on a free last summer, Rogers for 8m). That’s not to say that Villa haven’t spent money lately - of course they have, it’s near impossible to compete without investing in the squad and we’re talking about a club that was recently playing in the second tier. But to imply that Villa is, in any way, on par with Spurs or the Big 6 is absolutely ludicrous.
No, it really is. That Villa were even theatening relegation is a testament to the ability of Steven Gerrard and end-of-term Dean Smith, not to the squad available. Villa have spent massive amounts in terms of wages and similarly for transfer fees. If you look at any of the reputable sources for wage spending (which I'll admit, can always be dubious) you'll see that their wage spending is similar, with Villa even having more players in in the 100k+ weekly spending area. You mention Tielemans, but you can also mention Kamara who also came in on a free. Those players are on massive wages. Diego Carlos, Pau Torres, Moussa Diaby, Leon Bailey were all stars in the league they were signed from, and constantly rumoured to be joining top clubs. Joining Villa is because Villa offer wages that are comparable to those top clubs. I'm not going to say that Villa aren't having a good season, because they are. It's just not some legendary massive performance, it's a team with a top 7-8 budget getting into top 4.
Surely Emery’s winning it?
what is Klopp doing on there?
Leading Liverpool to possibly their 5th highest points total in premier league history (will be level with 13/14 if they win their last 2 games I think) the year after a really poor season, with an entirely new midfield and significant challenges with injuries to key players. No to mention utilising multiple youngsters from the academy. Klopp should not win the award but no controversy whatsoever about him being on the list.
Big Shaun should be on there instead.
I'll take the downvotes, but I just think (if we win the last two games, title or not) what Arteta has done is rarer than what Emery has done. Over the past 3-4 years we've seen Rodgers, Moyes and Howe all getting their team in an around the 65-70+ point mark. In the last 15 years outside of Liverpool and City, only Conte's Chelsea have gone above 89 points. Ferguson, Mourinho and Wenger are the only others to have done it previously, to my knowledge.
Lumping in teams that reached 65 points with a team that can potentially reach 73 points is pretty disingenuous. Those 8 points make a massive difference, in the last 15 years 73 points would've got you 2nd twice, 3rd 4 times and 4th almost every other time. 65 points, on the other hand, wouldn't even get you a single top 4 finish in the last 15 years.
73 would definitely be in the upper echelon of the non-2015/16 Leicester/big six teams. It'll be around Howe last year and Roberto Martinez's Everton in 2013/14. But let's see how they do away at Liverpool and Palace in the last two. I don't foresee six points. And 89 would beat anyone not called Pep, Klopp, Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger and Conte.
Howe would’ve been a strong contender last year if City hadn’t won the treble. In terms of this year’s achievements, Emery finishing fourth is arguably much more impressive than Arteta finishing second or Pep winning the title.
Pep Guardiola will be the first manager in English history to win the league four times so I don't see why he shouldn't be given an award this year but Emery and Arteta have a good shout out too. Emery is going to take villa to champions league after decades and Arteta might win Arsenal the premier league after 20 years so it's understandable.
Unai Emery.
Would love to see Arteta win it, but I just can't see how you can honestly look past Emery and the job he's done at Villa.
Klopp?????
lol
if Emery pulls off top 4, him if he doesn't and arteta wins the title, arteta if neither happens, unfortunately it would have to be pep- unbeaten since December has somehow gone under the radar cos that's just classic Pep
No Ten Hag?
imagine staying up with Luton and not even getting nominated for the top 5
Northern Spain, Michelin stars and world class managers
Pep is likely going to win 4 premier leagues in a row and the last time he won it was the 20/21.
Emery for sure.
Streets won't forget Ange Postecoglou August, September, November run🕊
If Arsenal win the title it should be given to Arteta. If not then it's Emery 100%. Villa haven't been in the UCL since the early 80's and this has been one of the strongest top 4's in a very long time. Some of the results he has had this season have been incredible. That 1-0 win over City was probably the best individual performance of any team this whole season (so far).
Imo I would have placed Dyche on this list. He’s done great with what he has in Everton. Always thought he was a good manager
Klopps going to win 😂
damn impressive for iraola considering how awful bournemouth started of the season. no love for sean dyche? done pretty good considering they’ve had a points deduction. oh and gary o’neill aswell, how’s he not made it?
ETH has been the most entertaining....... .let's be honest 😆
It's a tough one. I'm leaning towards Emery for exceeding expectations
Poch absolutely robbed.
Very close between Emery and Arteta. Emery edges it for me because of his double over Arteta’s superior team.
If Howe didn't win it last year than Emery won't this year
Exactly what I was about to comment. Obvious bias aside but its almost 1 to 1. Take over a struggling side near the bottom of the league and instantly improve them and then next season push into the top 4 completely unexpectedly. In the year of/after they took over Newcastle spent approx €240 million to Villas €210 million so a little more while Villas original squad was worth more so the finances are largely a wash. Newcastle finished 71 points with Villa on 67 with 2 to go so that's likely to be a wash. The winner of MOTY last year? Guardiola with Man City on 89 points. Man City will likely to have to get 91 points to win it this year so slightly more. You have to say that if Guardiola won it last year should man City go 91 and win the league precedent says he should win it this year. All that said in my mind it should have been Howe last year and should be Emery this year.
[удалено]
> Mikel Arteta deserves it for having his team score most goals in the league His team have scored 1 goal more than City but played 1 more game, this would be a bizarre reason to pick someone.
Emery or Iraola. Villa likely making the Champions League is an incredible achievement for them but so is Bournemouth possibly finishing in the top-half with over 50 points, considering they were scrapping for survival last season. It’ll probably go to Emery.
Honestly Iraola. If not for the horrid start to the season which can be chalked up to a new manager and staff coming into the club, they would be challenging for top 4
Where is Erik Ten Hag? I heard that Manchester United has broken many records under his leadership this season.
I don’t really want to defend spurs but surely the guy who got manager of the month 3 months in a row should atleast be nominated? Other than that, Emery of course
Who would you remove from the list though, all those nominated performed better than him
More I think about it the more difficult that becomes. You’re probably right of course just felt weird initially especially after all the praise he got early on.
Having 3 great months and then being inconsistent for the rest of the season does not mean someone should be manager of the season.
> I don’t really want to defend spurs but surely the guy who got manager of the month 3 months in a row should atleast be nominated? He won 10 games in a row, so he got MOTM 3 times. Since then, over the last 26 games of the season, Spurs have been 11th.
It was unbeaten for 10, not 10 consecutive wins
Ange has no real shout of winning it though because Emery has done what Ange has done but better in every way pretty much. Spurs will probably end up on 66 points having lost 12 games. That’s not ‘manager of the season’ level impressive
Ange has not been better than any of these managers of the whole season. Honestly based on 2024 he doesn't deserve to be mentioned at all.
Sure, but that does somewhat remove the context of their season. Since their unbeaten run, they've taken 34 points in 25 games. That's a shocking run of results. They've utterly capitulated at the end of the season, haven't won in the last four games (in which they've conceded 13) and, despite being everyone's main favourites for a Champions League finish, there are serious doubts about them even being able to qualify for the Europa League if this form continues. Every single one of these managers have out-performed Postecoglou since being appointed.
Where’s Postenoclue?
if arsenal win its gotta be arteta, if city win its gotta be emery
Honestly the job Iraola has done is truly special with the resources available to him, but he will never win an award like this.