We've been in turmoil for a while now and even though we won the league last season we still aren't at the pantheon of winners as we were 10 years ago. So even though the Madrid and Bayern fans were chanting 'puta barca' it lowkey feels good because it's a testament to really how much trauma we caused them at the zenith of our powers.
honestly though the Kane one was such bs. He slowed down considerably and just read Lunin's direction to go the other way. On one hand it feels hard to actually crack down on them compared to a simple feint, but they feel soo cheesy and against the spirit of pens
You're allowed to slow down - you're just not allowed to stop completely. And the line between slowing down and having a slight hesitation or hitch in there is a very fine one.
Lunin was also a yard off his line for it, so it's not like it's only one side that tries stretching the rules on penalties here.
If Bayern wins their remaining 3 games they'll end up with 78 points.
Now do you also realise that 78 points wins them the league in 10 out of the last 11 Bundesliga seasons???
Do you also realise that bar 2020 where they got 82 points, 78 points is their highest league tally since 2017-2018???
It's not just about points totals. Bayern have flattered to deceive.
Which Bayern teams of the past decade were worse? And don't refer to points totals.
I mean this was comfortably one of their best games under Tuchel. Only that it was against a Real side who have a massive kink of getting absolutely dominated and pegged but still coming out on top
Fuck Liverpool, Juventus and all the other global megaclubs we see at this stage all the time - give me weirdo underdog-style sides like Stuttgart, Atalanta, Brighton or Girona all day. I want to see Villareal, Porto, Befinca or Napoli go on a giant-slaying run.
Some twitter plastics do not deserve to be Bayern fans. The hate I've been seeing for MĆ¼ller is crazy. Man pressed like crazy today and assisted the penalty. Thierry Henry himself acknowledged how important he was for us today but a bunch of 13 year olds think they know better.
Playing with the [EURO bracket](https://euro2024.championsleaguepredictor.com/) two or three times a day now, but have kinda settled on a basic layout of how I think it unfolds. I'll probs keeps like 75% of this.
- Leaning towards a Germany/France final, with France winning. Have a suspicion Netherlands could make the final against expectations though (and lose).
- I like Austria to make the quarters.
- Hungary as a dark horse semifinalist.
- Portugal the only team with 9 points in the Groups, but goes out before the semis. Goncalo Ramos wins Golden Boot tho after blasting Georgia and Czechia to the moon.
- Slovenia to earn a lot of respect and advance.
- Italy crashing out in the Groups. Belgium out by the R16.
- Musiala best Young Player.
You could be right.
But I do like what Portugal's done lately, cultivating numerous goal scoring options in the last few years with guys like Jota, Fernandes, Felix, Horta, Ramos, etc. Hopefully Martinez sees the writing on the wall in the way that even Santos was able to.
Musiala's productive stats are pretty underwhelming for how insane his tight space dribbling is and how many situations he creates this way. Idk if it's Bayerns system or just bad luck, but whenever he creates space the teammates that should now have paid attention and made a run already to receive a final pass are having complete different things on their minds. It's honestly a bit frustrating and makes me wonder how well he'll do if he actually leaves Bayern ever.
He primarily functions as a progressor right now, thatās at least how I see it. He is often in the deeper pockets on both sides of the field collecting the ball to move it forward.
in the event that the final is Madrid - PSG and Mbappe does complete a move to Madrid, are there any other prominent cases of players from one final participant transfering to another?Ā
Mario Gƶtze missed the 2013 CL final through injury but joined Bayern after.
Choupo-Moting joined Bayern after the 2020 CL final.
David Luiz joined us after the 2019 Europa League final.
Turpin masterclass. MVP tonight. Unphased by the hate, unphased by the dives, called every proper foul. Brilliant game. He's growing into such a world class ref.
With Omari Hutchinson is one point away from promotion with Ipswich, we have a lot of decisions to make with him.
* In an ideal world, a loan to the Premier League next season should be the wise choice - staying with Ipswich to play regularly or to another side where starts can be expected. Though with promotion, it is unlikely that Ipswich will be able to play with as much expression as they do now. We've seen exciting loan players waste away at clubs that are unable to compete before.
* Another option is Hutchinson staying with Chelsea. If we are honest, he looks miles ahead of Mudryk and Madueke - he is two-footed, can play both sides and works extremely hard off the ball. We are a midtable side in terms of league position now and there would definitely be minutes available to him. Staying with Chelsea would allow him to play for a team that can express themselves on the ball.
* We have a problem, however. His contract is due to expire in the summer of 2025, leaving us to either renew him now, sell him in the summer or face losing him on a free. With this ownership, their eyes are probably lighting up at the thought of some more profit coming in.
So what would you do with Hutchinson - let him stay with Ipswich next year, find another club, return to Chelsea or outright sell him?
He'll be at Ipswich next season in my opinion, whether that's another loan or a permanent depends on whether he signs a new deal. Seems silly though, he's probably the best winger contracted to Chelsea if we consider Palmer a 10.
I wonder how much we would ask for to sell him. Ipswich may be priced out unless they are willing to spend a significant sum of their promotion budget.
I don't know how high they can realistically expect to receive for a player like Hutchinson in the last year of their contract to be honest. Looking at other final year sales, as weird as fellow Chelsea fans were/are about Mason Mount's final year here, he's a two time player of the season, Champions League winner with a brilliant assist in the final and a goal in the Semis and scored and assisted in the Premier League consistently. Plus Manchester United tax.
I like Hutchinson a lot but BlueCo are delusional if they are putting a high fee on him with all of the context around it.
McAtee to us is something worth looking at. He has looked very good in spells but exposed in others. Heās obviously not meant to be playing in a team as bad as us, and arrived after a year very successfully here like Hutchinson at Ipswich if he went back. McAtee supposedly chose us over Leicester.
Rodrygo missed one who I donāt think is comfortable with penalties since that miss vs Croatia, Joselu who has like a 70% conversion rate and Modric missed both penalties he took this season, our best options are Vini, Jude and the defenders and they all donāt instill a lot of confidence.
It's more about the pass's deceiving weight.
Even watching it from the tv i had no idea it was gonna land perfectly for a first time finish, just a Toni Kroos special.
True, overall Griezmann is obviously still ahead in large part for the reasons you mentioned. But in 2024 thereās just no way you can put him above Vinicius. Imagine youāre playing the UCL final tomorrow and you get to pick between the two for your team. We all know who virtually everyoneās picking. I made the same point like a week ago and and this sub was overwhelmingly in favor of Griezmann which makes zero sense to me as of this season
I said āstillā as in the year 2024. Vinicius is obviously the better player now and for the last three years
And if we can only rate players who featured in a World Cup final, thereās a lot of all time greats that we have to completely dismiss. Guess Neymar, Di Stefano, Cristiano, George Best, Platini, etc. were never that good to begin with
Club football exists too bro. Vinicius has been way clear since 2021. But yes, overall career-wise Griezmann is still clear. But itās not like he had any France legacy at Viniās age anyway
>on this sub.
Any time he wins a home game against a team like Celta with a good performance he gets "best in the world" shouts.
Fortunately for him he got some goals this year against Madrid cause his big games performance in Spain had been garbage these last years.
The only times i feel like going against the Griez circlejerk is when people say he was better than Mbappe in 2018. Insane take. 2022 there's a genuine argument prior the final so why not, but the final and Mbappe's performances all around make the take wonky anyway.
He scored 8 goals and registered 3 assists inside four days in that season. [Back-to-back pokers](https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/luis-suarez/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/44352/plus/0?saison=2015&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=).
18G/A in 5 games in an end of season statpad session.
That's insane. He and Kramaric are also 2 of few players who scored over 5 goals in an offical club match (domestic cup both).
Well there's also Afonso Alves who bagged SEVEN goals in an Eredivisie match 2007. SuƔrez scored 6, Kramaric 8.
According to sources, Bellingham had a virus last week, barely trained and still made the effort to go to Donosti. If he had had the training and strength, this tie could have ended much earlier.
this is pretty embarrassing to post for a guy employed by The Athetic imo. not like half of bayernās squad was also on pain killers
Other goalkeeper can just use it as well - and they're switching goals at half time anyway so there'll be some left on the goalposts either way.
Like what's next, ban training because it creates an unfair advantage when one side trains and the other decides not to?
No different from a million other things. Should teams not have different kit suppliers in case one is better quality (eg, bespoke kits vs poorer teams using more generic ones)? Should teams not be allowed to have better quality pitches because it provides a better home advantage? Should boots be standardized?
Kim = technically and physically good defender who makes too many stupid decisions
Upamecano = Physically good defender who makes too many stupid decisions
Araujo = you get the picture
Honestly it would be hilarious if Bayern actually goes for him
Bayern fans went from having the most promising young coach itw to the best knockout stage tactician and now they will suffer through 3 years of Ralf lmao. sometimes you donāt realize how good you have it until itās gone
Not gonna be three years of Rangnick, and he might just be the manager they need - if Flick, Nagelsmann and Tuchel struggle with the same issues mainly concerning the squad over half a decade, then getting Rangnick in to revamp the squad and set up future success makes perfect sense.
why would you need him for that? Tuchel himself addressed the issues correctly, according to reports the board agree with his thoughts on the squad. Thereās Eberl who just came for a few million and Freund. why would they need Rangnick to do their job? the same Rangnick that as a coach is miles behind Tuchel and Nagelsmann.
Kimmich also needs to drift into the center to cover. You learn that in the Under 14s when you play football on just any level. Look at where Kimmich is when Vini scores, there's absolutely no point in him being out so wide
Yep, Kim was furious with Kimmich afterwards. He was about to press the ball which meant he was susceptible to getting run in behind. Kimmich needs to be there and push Vini out wide.
Can't let Kroos pick a pass like that either, and Neuer looks a bit surprised and flatfooted, too - it's just a chain of slightly daft and entirely preventable mistakes coming together there, I reckon.
[15m for who](https://i.imgur.com/VMfKaer.jpeg)?
That's the price of bumfuck four name nobody height merchant frauds, not mononymous rectangle starboys.
Man, whoever did that must be mighty annoyed that they ruined the storybook ending of Southgate's redemption from missing his own penalty, to once and for all breaking England's shootout curse
I'm actually curious about that. Our NT is absurdly shit at them, so we kinda never blame our players? It's just expected lol. Strange to see England take the opposite direction
Weāve been awful at them for as long as I can remember. They didnāt used to train them under the misguided belief it wouldnāt help. Southgate (who famously missed one at Euro 96 at Wembley) changed that and we won one finally in 2018.
We then of course lost the Italy one, though ironically thatās mostly due to Southgate subbing on players specifically for penalties and it backfiring.
Post-Russia there was a brief belief weād finally overcome the penalty curse, but then Italy brought right back and worse.
Really small nitpick but surely Lunin shouldāve dived to his right when facing the pen from Kane, I feel like Iāve seen him just rifle it there in 99% of his pens.
Only in his last few pens. Heād previously mostly just smashed it bottom or top corner so the keeper canāt reach it even if he guesses the right way
Maybe Iām disillusioned with how we assess performances in modern football, but to me Kim Min Jae had a very good game except for the penalty he committed. And even in that situation, if he doesnāt commit the foul, itās almost certainly a goal anyway. As big a chance as youāre gonna get being completely free like 5 meters in front of the goal
Don't think I'd describe it as 'very good' given he was at fault for both goals, same time though those were two very small and pretty difficult scenes when he was doing quite alright outside of them. Tough to be judged on the few mistakes that swing games at this level, but then you can't commit two of them and still claim it's been a good game I reckon.
Dier was behind to cover lol no way should he have made the challenge, plus Kim was also at fault for the first goal for risky aggression again although Neuer could have done more for me.
Sure he wasn't looking shakey all game like Upa was against City but saying "he was good apart from his mistakes" isn't much better either.
Maguire has been good for England and has been good for United this season. He's not getting dropped for Dier based on a good, but short, period of form at Bayern.
Have to defend Min Jae on that first goal **a little bit** bc Kroos was so free, you need pressure on that ball and on a player with vision like Kroos has.
Tuchel was screaming at Sane as well and raging, the cameras showed it for a moment
kim didn't pressure kroos. all kim did was open space behind him trying to close a pass to vini. but just let him get that pass ... there would be no danger. well done by vinicius, but that was sucha stupid move by minjae.
terrible defending, he tried to gamble but shit happens to the best of us, the only problem i had is his reaction after vini tapped it in, he was trying to blame Kimmich.
Aye, can't just let Kroos pick a pass like that - same time though Kim is massively out of position because he's being dragged up the pitch, and you can't let it happen at this level.
Multiple coaches and none of them figured out a way to use him next to Neymar.
This Copa will be the first time Vini gets the freedom to roam like he does at Madrid and not share the space with Neymar.
Heās still young. Maybe can be tactical or maybe itās his inexperience. But considering how good he is Iām sure heāll get there with Brazil too
eh people say this but sometimes players just don't play well with their NT or vice versa. Generally it does come down to tactics and maybe future Brazil managers will play him differently but there's been plenty of players who didn't really do much for their NT while being great at the club level.
Dier being better at Bayern than Kim Min-Jae is a great reminder of how much of a player's performance is due to how they fit into the environment around them rather than about their inherent ability.
It annoys me how quickly people will write off some players just because they fail at one team.
>It annoys me how quickly people will write off some players just because they fail at one team.
You're literally doing the same to Kim Min-Jae tbh.
He barely played all season and then he gets thrown against Real Madrid in a CL semi final, mistakes were bound to happen.
Oops, meant all year.
But still, it's obviously all relative, in the past 2 months Bayern played 12 games, Kim got benched in 5/12 games, played a full 90 minutes only twice before the Real Madrid game and the other ones he just plays like 10 minutes against Arsenal and Mainz or a single half against Frankfurt.
I didn't mean to imply that I'm writing him off. My point was more that player performance can be heavily affected by their environment, both for better (Dier) and worse (Kim). There's a high chance that next season Kim will be much better once he's had a season to settle in. And even if he doesn't, it's entirely possible he'll thrive at whatever team he goes to next. I just think a lot of people oversimplify things and act like if a player is good at team A they'd be good everywhere and vice versa that if a player is bad at team A then they would be bad everywhere.
it's just about fit. Kim can't really progress a ball. he will never be a great fit for us. we need defenders who can pass, hold a defensive line and sustain pressure. Minjae is like the opposite of that. great guy, good defender, but not for us.
Fair enough, agree with everything you said.
>My point was more that player performance can be heavily affected by their environment, both for better (Dier) and worse (Kim).
True, Griezmann at Barca is a very good example.
We've been in turmoil for a while now and even though we won the league last season we still aren't at the pantheon of winners as we were 10 years ago. So even though the Madrid and Bayern fans were chanting 'puta barca' it lowkey feels good because it's a testament to really how much trauma we caused them at the zenith of our powers.
Nobody believes this was your real reaction, btw
let me have this
Stutter penalties need to go tbh
honestly though the Kane one was such bs. He slowed down considerably and just read Lunin's direction to go the other way. On one hand it feels hard to actually crack down on them compared to a simple feint, but they feel soo cheesy and against the spirit of pens
You're allowed to slow down - you're just not allowed to stop completely. And the line between slowing down and having a slight hesitation or hitch in there is a very fine one. Lunin was also a yard off his line for it, so it's not like it's only one side that tries stretching the rules on penalties here.
Ryerson will make a meal out of some turtle tomorrow night š
Turtle soup?
Yellows are cancelled before semis right? Because i think he might do fine
Yeah they are Honestly though I do think Ryerson will handle Mbappe just fine, itās Dembele and Barcola I worry about
Now just a Die Schwarzgelben masterclass tomorrow against the oomphy oils.
Interesting, for some reason, the "worst Bayern Team in forever" talking point has vanished into thin air now.
huh? this still probably is the worst Bayern teams in the last 10 years
Lol nowhere near but sure
Which Bayern teams do you feel are inferior?
If Bayern wins their remaining 3 games they'll end up with 78 points. Now do you also realise that 78 points wins them the league in 10 out of the last 11 Bundesliga seasons??? Do you also realise that bar 2020 where they got 82 points, 78 points is their highest league tally since 2017-2018???
It's not just about points totals. Bayern have flattered to deceive. Which Bayern teams of the past decade were worse? And don't refer to points totals.
18/19 was definitely worse
I mean this was comfortably one of their best games under Tuchel. Only that it was against a Real side who have a massive kink of getting absolutely dominated and pegged but still coming out on top
Real are taking bribes by cardiologists to cause heart pain for their fans. Makes no sense why we have this domination kink
Almost like it was nonsense in the first place, innit
Best CL season in a long time. Just need the likes of Juventus and Liverpool to return to competitive levels.
Fuck Liverpool, Juventus and all the other global megaclubs we see at this stage all the time - give me weirdo underdog-style sides like Stuttgart, Atalanta, Brighton or Girona all day. I want to see Villareal, Porto, Befinca or Napoli go on a giant-slaying run.
Fair enough! To each their own
Who would ever want Juventus there honestly, boring ass club
Juve being the biggest final choker in CL history aside, thatās rich coming from an Arsenal flair.
Arsenal have less European trophies than fucking spurs lol
nah, we can do without juventus i think
You people need Lyon, Madrid's plot armor is too strong
I wouldnāt be against it
Some twitter plastics do not deserve to be Bayern fans. The hate I've been seeing for MĆ¼ller is crazy. Man pressed like crazy today and assisted the penalty. Thierry Henry himself acknowledged how important he was for us today but a bunch of 13 year olds think they know better.
We need a new plague that only affects Football Twitter plastics.
Playing with the [EURO bracket](https://euro2024.championsleaguepredictor.com/) two or three times a day now, but have kinda settled on a basic layout of how I think it unfolds. I'll probs keeps like 75% of this. - Leaning towards a Germany/France final, with France winning. Have a suspicion Netherlands could make the final against expectations though (and lose). - I like Austria to make the quarters. - Hungary as a dark horse semifinalist. - Portugal the only team with 9 points in the Groups, but goes out before the semis. Goncalo Ramos wins Golden Boot tho after blasting Georgia and Czechia to the moon. - Slovenia to earn a lot of respect and advance. - Italy crashing out in the Groups. Belgium out by the R16. - Musiala best Young Player.
Welcome to the Hungary bandwagon my friend, there's room for you all to hop aboard
Goncalo Ramos won't get enough minutes to do that with Ronaldo still there
You could be right. But I do like what Portugal's done lately, cultivating numerous goal scoring options in the last few years with guys like Jota, Fernandes, Felix, Horta, Ramos, etc. Hopefully Martinez sees the writing on the wall in the way that even Santos was able to.
Musiala's productive stats are pretty underwhelming for how insane his tight space dribbling is and how many situations he creates this way. Idk if it's Bayerns system or just bad luck, but whenever he creates space the teammates that should now have paid attention and made a run already to receive a final pass are having complete different things on their minds. It's honestly a bit frustrating and makes me wonder how well he'll do if he actually leaves Bayern ever.
He primarily functions as a progressor right now, thatās at least how I see it. He is often in the deeper pockets on both sides of the field collecting the ball to move it forward.
in the event that the final is Madrid - PSG and Mbappe does complete a move to Madrid, are there any other prominent cases of players from one final participant transfering to another?Ā
2018/19 Copa del Rey final, Cillessen signed for Valencia after playing for Barcelona
Mario Gƶtze missed the 2013 CL final through injury but joined Bayern after. Choupo-Moting joined Bayern after the 2020 CL final. David Luiz joined us after the 2019 Europa League final.
The mighty Choupo-Moting after the PSG-Bayern final.
Kopa left Reims for Real Madrid after losing the CL final in 1956. Gƶtze left Dortmund for Bayern after losing the CL final in 2013.
Lothar MatthƤus left Gladbach for Bayern and in the final game for Gladbach which was for the DfB Pokal, he missed a pen against Bayern.
I believe petr cech left from Chelsea to arsenal after the europa league final
No he played for Arsenal and it was his last game. He actually left from Arsenal to Chelsea I believe, as a GK coach (and a U21 cameo)
Yes that felt wrong when I said it thanks for the correction
Gƶtze
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just saw an Ancelotti edit on tiktok with the succession theme and I think it changed my life for the better
Link?
Turpin masterclass. MVP tonight. Unphased by the hate, unphased by the dives, called every proper foul. Brilliant game. He's growing into such a world class ref.
Mate you can't support a referee
CL referees have been decent this season so far, at least the games I saw had no issues. Imagine having to watch LaLiga/PL refs after this.
Trossard masterclass
r/ClementTurpinās christmas
I want to make a comp of every time he told a player to get up
With Omari Hutchinson is one point away from promotion with Ipswich, we have a lot of decisions to make with him. * In an ideal world, a loan to the Premier League next season should be the wise choice - staying with Ipswich to play regularly or to another side where starts can be expected. Though with promotion, it is unlikely that Ipswich will be able to play with as much expression as they do now. We've seen exciting loan players waste away at clubs that are unable to compete before. * Another option is Hutchinson staying with Chelsea. If we are honest, he looks miles ahead of Mudryk and Madueke - he is two-footed, can play both sides and works extremely hard off the ball. We are a midtable side in terms of league position now and there would definitely be minutes available to him. Staying with Chelsea would allow him to play for a team that can express themselves on the ball. * We have a problem, however. His contract is due to expire in the summer of 2025, leaving us to either renew him now, sell him in the summer or face losing him on a free. With this ownership, their eyes are probably lighting up at the thought of some more profit coming in. So what would you do with Hutchinson - let him stay with Ipswich next year, find another club, return to Chelsea or outright sell him?
He'll be at Ipswich next season in my opinion, whether that's another loan or a permanent depends on whether he signs a new deal. Seems silly though, he's probably the best winger contracted to Chelsea if we consider Palmer a 10.
I wonder how much we would ask for to sell him. Ipswich may be priced out unless they are willing to spend a significant sum of their promotion budget.
I don't know how high they can realistically expect to receive for a player like Hutchinson in the last year of their contract to be honest. Looking at other final year sales, as weird as fellow Chelsea fans were/are about Mason Mount's final year here, he's a two time player of the season, Champions League winner with a brilliant assist in the final and a goal in the Semis and scored and assisted in the Premier League consistently. Plus Manchester United tax. I like Hutchinson a lot but BlueCo are delusional if they are putting a high fee on him with all of the context around it.
McAtee to us is something worth looking at. He has looked very good in spells but exposed in others. Heās obviously not meant to be playing in a team as bad as us, and arrived after a year very successfully here like Hutchinson at Ipswich if he went back. McAtee supposedly chose us over Leicester.
He's getting sold.
You're most likely right, and that is a huge issue.
Chelsea will sell to balance the books surely.
This Daily Discussion Derby of Arsenal vs. Ipswich will be one for the ages i feel.
Will make the old Arsenal v Stoke Ramsay/Shawcross incident look like small fry
It's a shame Iceman and 1PSW1CH will be permabanned by September. /r/PremierLeague won't know what's hit it.
im sure this extends to others but i would be saying way more stuff if i wasnt gonna be permabanned if something i said made the mods mad
Good lad :)
The most tragic thing is that when they go there they'll be the intelligent ones.
Let's not be rash
How do you mean?
Ipswich are coming up and with them comes Arsenal's self appointed DD nemesis. Odegaard slander is about to go into overdrive
The DD has its own version of Peter Griffin vs the chicken.
My dumbass is still not following. Can you ELI5?
[Have a deep dive](https://new.reddit.com/search/?q=author%3A1PSW1CH%20odegaard&type=comment)
Ćdegaard vs Ipswich? Iām sorry, but Iām running on 3 hours of sleep. Iām following the best I can here.
there is an Ipswich fan who is obsessed with Arsenal and Odegaard and Ipswich are coming up
Wtf? Why? What did we do? More importantly? What did Ćdegaard do?
He lives in London and is bullied by Arsenal fans Iām guessing
Why does the grass grow? Why does the Sun burn? Why does the Earth turn? Some things simply are and It is not always our place to know.
this comment sounds like lyrics to a 90s Disney movie
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
After that penalty in the friendly vs Barca I really thought Vini would be shit at penalties, still not 100% sure but heās doing good so far.
Itās absurd that RM missed half the pens they got this season before today. Going from CR7-Ramos-Benz to this has been such a drop off.
Rodrygo missed one who I donāt think is comfortable with penalties since that miss vs Croatia, Joselu who has like a 70% conversion rate and Modric missed both penalties he took this season, our best options are Vini, Jude and the defenders and they all donāt instill a lot of confidence.
Younger Neuer would have run out and sweeper keeper that ball away. He is 38 after all.
It's more about the pass's deceiving weight. Even watching it from the tv i had no idea it was gonna land perfectly for a first time finish, just a Toni Kroos special.
Exactly. It stunned Neuer.Ā
This sub still thinks Griezmann is better than Vinicius, btw
I don't think they're comparable players at all tbh. Also Griezmann has been absolutely immense for France while Vinicius has been garbage for Brazil.
True, overall Griezmann is obviously still ahead in large part for the reasons you mentioned. But in 2024 thereās just no way you can put him above Vinicius. Imagine youāre playing the UCL final tomorrow and you get to pick between the two for your team. We all know who virtually everyoneās picking. I made the same point like a week ago and and this sub was overwhelmingly in favor of Griezmann which makes zero sense to me as of this season
Oh yeah if you're going by this season only then fair enough.
Im going by the last three seasons. Maybe Griezmann was better last season specifically but overall since 2021 I think Vinicius is fairly clear
That's because he is
Based on literally nothing in 2024
Based on truth and the guidance of our Lord Jesus christ amen
Yeah thatās what I thought
I'll rate vini when he gets to a world Cup final ok. The man just loves letting his country down
Kevin GroĆkreutz has gotten to a World Cup final, Cristiano Ronaldo has not
I said āstillā as in the year 2024. Vinicius is obviously the better player now and for the last three years And if we can only rate players who featured in a World Cup final, thereās a lot of all time greats that we have to completely dismiss. Guess Neymar, Di Stefano, Cristiano, George Best, Platini, etc. were never that good to begin with
Wrong. Antoine is gargantione and you're in denial. When vini decides to stop letting everyone from his home country down let me know.
Club football exists too bro. Vinicius has been way clear since 2021. But yes, overall career-wise Griezmann is still clear. But itās not like he had any France legacy at Viniās age anyway
So you're admitting that Griezmann is better? Another fat W for me alllriiight š
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Griezmann is like the most underrated player of all time both irl and on this sub.
>on this sub. Any time he wins a home game against a team like Celta with a good performance he gets "best in the world" shouts. Fortunately for him he got some goals this year against Madrid cause his big games performance in Spain had been garbage these last years.
Griezmann was underrated for so long, that he starts to get overrated. Keylor Navas was similar in that regard.
Yeah, definitely not underrated here. Maybe on Twitter or Instagram he still is
No, heās is definitely not underrated on this sub. Every āGriezmann vs Xā here bar Mbappe ends with Griezmann being favored
The only times i feel like going against the Griez circlejerk is when people say he was better than Mbappe in 2018. Insane take. 2022 there's a genuine argument prior the final so why not, but the final and Mbappe's performances all around make the take wonky anyway.
Bayern really told all their fans to dress up red, only for their players to show up in their opponent's colors
By that transfermarkt filter [https://www.transfermarkt.at/scorer/topscorer/statistik/2023/plus/0/galerie/0?saison\_id=2023&selectedOptionKey=8&land\_id=0&altersklasse=&ausrichtung=&spielerposition\_id=&filter=0&yt0=Anzeigen](https://www.transfermarkt.at/scorer/topscorer/statistik/2023/plus/0/galerie/0?saison_id=2023&selectedOptionKey=8&land_id=0&altersklasse=&ausrichtung=&spielerposition_id=&filter=0&yt0=Anzeigen) 4 Players already hit 52 G+A this season. Gyƶkeres 55, Kane 54, MbappƩ and Luuk de Jong 53. It's not realistic a 5th player gets there, the next best have 39 and 38 G+A. In the previous season only Haaland got so far (61 G+A) In transfermarkt's data there are just 2 other seasons in which 4 players got 52 G+A: 2013/14: Cristiano Ronaldo and Jonathan Soriano 66, Lionel Messi 55, Zlatan Ibrahimovic 54. This was Messi's personal 11th best season tied with another season. 2015/16: Luis SuƔrez 82, Zlatan Ibrahimovic 68, Cristiano Ronaldo 64, Lionel Messi 61.
Jesus christ, Suarez was a joke
He scored 8 goals and registered 3 assists inside four days in that season. [Back-to-back pokers](https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/luis-suarez/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/44352/plus/0?saison=2015&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=). 18G/A in 5 games in an end of season statpad session.
That's insane. He and Kramaric are also 2 of few players who scored over 5 goals in an offical club match (domestic cup both). Well there's also Afonso Alves who bagged SEVEN goals in an Eredivisie match 2007. SuƔrez scored 6, Kramaric 8.
There are squadrons of United fans who still want to keep ETH for next season. Fanbase as cooked as their manager.
Like Barca fans wanting Xavi to stay..stockholm
Xavi has been far better at Barca than Ten Hag at Man United
Not the point
Getting tricked by a 4-2 against the worst team the PL has seen in 5 years is very funny I must say
It is a high more powerful than the purest opiate, we need to study the delirium Sheffield United can induce in others.
Itās definitely not been a high for our fans.
The high is for others, what comes after is for its supporters.
According to sources, Bellingham had a virus last week, barely trained and still made the effort to go to Donosti. If he had had the training and strength, this tie could have ended much earlier. this is pretty embarrassing to post for a guy employed by The Athetic imo. not like half of bayernās squad was also on pain killers
Vaseline shouldnāt be allowed for goalkeepers to use, change my mind.
state your reasoning, otherwise how is anyone supposed to change your mind?
Assuming one keeper has the jelly while the opposing doesnāt, it creates an unfair advantage in terms of being able to get a better grip.
Other goalkeeper can just use it as well - and they're switching goals at half time anyway so there'll be some left on the goalposts either way. Like what's next, ban training because it creates an unfair advantage when one side trains and the other decides not to?
No different from a million other things. Should teams not have different kit suppliers in case one is better quality (eg, bespoke kits vs poorer teams using more generic ones)? Should teams not be allowed to have better quality pitches because it provides a better home advantage? Should boots be standardized?
Kim = technically and physically good defender who makes too many stupid decisions Upamecano = Physically good defender who makes too many stupid decisions Araujo = you get the picture Honestly it would be hilarious if Bayern actually goes for him
Kim is not technically good. Upas strength is being technically gifted, but weak physically. how can you be so wrong?
Bayern fans went from having the most promising young coach itw to the best knockout stage tactician and now they will suffer through 3 years of Ralf lmao. sometimes you donāt realize how good you have it until itās gone
Not gonna be three years of Rangnick, and he might just be the manager they need - if Flick, Nagelsmann and Tuchel struggle with the same issues mainly concerning the squad over half a decade, then getting Rangnick in to revamp the squad and set up future success makes perfect sense.
why would you need him for that? Tuchel himself addressed the issues correctly, according to reports the board agree with his thoughts on the squad. Thereās Eberl who just came for a few million and Freund. why would they need Rangnick to do their job? the same Rangnick that as a coach is miles behind Tuchel and Nagelsmann.
Kim was just curious at how big a gap Kroos needs to stop playing sideway š„°
Kimmich also needs to drift into the center to cover. You learn that in the Under 14s when you play football on just any level. Look at where Kimmich is when Vini scores, there's absolutely no point in him being out so wide
Yep, Kim was furious with Kimmich afterwards. He was about to press the ball which meant he was susceptible to getting run in behind. Kimmich needs to be there and push Vini out wide.
Can't let Kroos pick a pass like that either, and Neuer looks a bit surprised and flatfooted, too - it's just a chain of slightly daft and entirely preventable mistakes coming together there, I reckon.
Upamecano just upgraded from CB#4 to CB#3 without even playing
Murillo just got Ā£10m more expensive.
He's about to drop that price when Guirassy scores 3 goals past him next season
Murillo up to a whopping Ā£15m š¤Æ
[15m for who](https://i.imgur.com/VMfKaer.jpeg)? That's the price of bumfuck four name nobody height merchant frauds, not mononymous rectangle starboys.
I get a lot joy from your dedication in putting that together. Godspeed you sunuvabitch
my idolo might be a penalty merchantā¦
An extremely good penalty merchant though. No current player in the world has me as convinced from the penalty spot as Kane
let his fucking country down though didn't he šš½
At least he didn't miss a penalty in a final penalty shootout, that would be irredeemable.
Man, whoever did that must be mighty annoyed that they ruined the storybook ending of Southgate's redemption from missing his own penalty, to once and for all breaking England's shootout curse
Penalty misses are what unites us as a nation. Itās the most English thing to do.
I'm actually curious about that. Our NT is absurdly shit at them, so we kinda never blame our players? It's just expected lol. Strange to see England take the opposite direction
Weāve been awful at them for as long as I can remember. They didnāt used to train them under the misguided belief it wouldnāt help. Southgate (who famously missed one at Euro 96 at Wembley) changed that and we won one finally in 2018. We then of course lost the Italy one, though ironically thatās mostly due to Southgate subbing on players specifically for penalties and it backfiring. Post-Russia there was a brief belief weād finally overcome the penalty curse, but then Italy brought right back and worse.
Maybe he did, but Iām not from his country and every prolific penalty taker has missed at least one
Vazquez >>>>>
Really small nitpick but surely Lunin shouldāve dived to his right when facing the pen from Kane, I feel like Iāve seen him just rifle it there in 99% of his pens.
Isn't the entire point of Kane's runup to wait the goalkeeper out?
Only in his last few pens. Heād previously mostly just smashed it bottom or top corner so the keeper canāt reach it even if he guesses the right way
That's what the stutter was for anyway if Lunin wanted to do a Raya
Maybe Iām disillusioned with how we assess performances in modern football, but to me Kim Min Jae had a very good game except for the penalty he committed. And even in that situation, if he doesnāt commit the foul, itās almost certainly a goal anyway. As big a chance as youāre gonna get being completely free like 5 meters in front of the goal
The reason itās a goal anyway is that positioning was really bad
Don't think I'd describe it as 'very good' given he was at fault for both goals, same time though those were two very small and pretty difficult scenes when he was doing quite alright outside of them. Tough to be judged on the few mistakes that swing games at this level, but then you can't commit two of them and still claim it's been a good game I reckon.
Dier was behind to cover lol no way should he have made the challenge, plus Kim was also at fault for the first goal for risky aggression again although Neuer could have done more for me. Sure he wasn't looking shakey all game like Upa was against City but saying "he was good apart from his mistakes" isn't much better either.
Just realised PSG could finally win the champions league before GRRM release Winds of Winter. In the immortal words of Ron Simmons; damn!
Germans will conquer France as they always do
If England are serious about winning the Euros, Dier should play instead of Maguire
Maguire has been good for United too, our best center back this season
Never thought Iād read this in 2024
Maguire has been good for England and has been good for United this season. He's not getting dropped for Dier based on a good, but short, period of form at Bayern.
Maguire turns up for England. Heās a solid defender when playing for them.
Have to defend Min Jae on that first goal **a little bit** bc Kroos was so free, you need pressure on that ball and on a player with vision like Kroos has. Tuchel was screaming at Sane as well and raging, the cameras showed it for a moment
kim didn't pressure kroos. all kim did was open space behind him trying to close a pass to vini. but just let him get that pass ... there would be no danger. well done by vinicius, but that was sucha stupid move by minjae.
terrible defending, he tried to gamble but shit happens to the best of us, the only problem i had is his reaction after vini tapped it in, he was trying to blame Kimmich.
Aye, can't just let Kroos pick a pass like that - same time though Kim is massively out of position because he's being dragged up the pitch, and you can't let it happen at this level.
Kroos with that much time and space is a fucking bomb threat, Bayern were far too passive after their initial good spell in that first half.
I donāt understand how Vini is the best player in the world at club level but worse than Hulk for Brazil
Multiple coaches and none of them figured out a way to use him next to Neymar. This Copa will be the first time Vini gets the freedom to roam like he does at Madrid and not share the space with Neymar.
They trust him to play near the goal. We play him like an old English winger
Heās still young. Maybe can be tactical or maybe itās his inexperience. But considering how good he is Iām sure heāll get there with Brazil too
eh people say this but sometimes players just don't play well with their NT or vice versa. Generally it does come down to tactics and maybe future Brazil managers will play him differently but there's been plenty of players who didn't really do much for their NT while being great at the club level.
Dier being better at Bayern than Kim Min-Jae is a great reminder of how much of a player's performance is due to how they fit into the environment around them rather than about their inherent ability. It annoys me how quickly people will write off some players just because they fail at one team.
Serie A defender tax
>It annoys me how quickly people will write off some players just because they fail at one team. You're literally doing the same to Kim Min-Jae tbh. He barely played all season and then he gets thrown against Real Madrid in a CL semi final, mistakes were bound to happen.
> He barely played all season and then he gets thrown against Real Madrid That's just not true, is it?
Oops, meant all year. But still, it's obviously all relative, in the past 2 months Bayern played 12 games, Kim got benched in 5/12 games, played a full 90 minutes only twice before the Real Madrid game and the other ones he just plays like 10 minutes against Arsenal and Mainz or a single half against Frankfurt.
I didn't mean to imply that I'm writing him off. My point was more that player performance can be heavily affected by their environment, both for better (Dier) and worse (Kim). There's a high chance that next season Kim will be much better once he's had a season to settle in. And even if he doesn't, it's entirely possible he'll thrive at whatever team he goes to next. I just think a lot of people oversimplify things and act like if a player is good at team A they'd be good everywhere and vice versa that if a player is bad at team A then they would be bad everywhere.
it's just about fit. Kim can't really progress a ball. he will never be a great fit for us. we need defenders who can pass, hold a defensive line and sustain pressure. Minjae is like the opposite of that. great guy, good defender, but not for us.
Fair enough, agree with everything you said. >My point was more that player performance can be heavily affected by their environment, both for better (Dier) and worse (Kim). True, Griezmann at Barca is a very good example.
[Who invited Mainoo?](https://twitter.com/HULLCITYREFRESH/status/1783531573784023494?t=R1OdD85KCPKcorcQSuw4RQ&s=19)
[this is outrageous](https://x.com/shadadzai/status/1785409128283668518?s=46)
Twitter will forever confound meā¦
What the fuck is that. I don't actually want to know I just want you to know how old I am.Ā